Quantum Mirror question

[Endeavour]

Here's a thought. Alternative SG-1 went to a lot of trouble to get to another dimension for help in this episode. Why didn't they just use the quantum mirror?

"Because the quantum mirror was destroyed in their dimension, just like in ours", you're about to say.

Right, except this makes no sense. The quantum mirror worked by showing you a window into another dimension. Touch the mirror and you appear on the other side, in the other dimension. Touch it again and you come back. The critical point is that it exists in the other dimension, it's not some one-way portal.

So how can it be destroyed? The mirror must exist in all dimensions at the same time, because it links them together.

Any thoughts?

[The Signal]

If you destroy a gate does the whole system shut down? No, the pathway to that gate shuts down, and I would imagine that the same principle applies to the QM yes it is two way, but that means nothing. As for why they didnt use it, well, there are so many different universes that the mirror isnt accurate enough. The method they used allowed them to specifically create a rift that trapped only AU's that were very similar, that way, much less trial and error as all of the far different AU's could be avoided.

[FallenAngelII]

Here's a thought. Alternative SG-1 went to a lot of trouble to get to another dimension for help in this episode. Why didn't they just use the quantum mirror?

"Because the quantum mirror was destroyed in their dimension, just like in ours", you're about to say.

Right, except this makes no sense. The quantum mirror worked by showing you a window into another dimension. Touch the mirror and you appear on the other side, in the other dimension. Touch it again and you come back. The critical point is that it exists in the other dimension, it's not some one-way portal.

So how can it be destroyed? The mirror must exist in all dimensions at the same time, because it links them together.

Any thoughts?

Not necessarily. By your logic, passing through the quantum mirror MUST take you to somewhere where the mirror is in the exact same room, in the exact same spot as yours.

I mean, you can't walk through a mirror in the SGC and end up in Atlantis, can you? Yes, you can (by logic). Therefore, you should also be able to destroy the mirror.

THAT, or the mirror will only let you pass through to dimensions where the mirror is actually in the exact same place as in yours >_>'.

[AndyStargateUK]

Even so getting into the SG universe we know through the quantum mirrior would be near impossible since there are a near infinite number of choices.

If the quantum mirror has been destroyed in this reality it should stop other mirrors from 'tuning in' as both universes need a mirror in order to travel so if it doesn't exsist in one universe it should mean the other mirros can't connect to this universe.

[Kingomon]

The fact is the Mirror is a Stargate/Phone you need a phone there in order to get there other wise they just get nothing but what if our team got caught into another world that would be weird. The Mirror mght have been destroyed already or they never found theirs. But I am glad that the other team that started this was careful enough not to send all Sg1's our way because we would have Goa'uld, Ori, Nox (peaceful Sg-1 ones I'd hate to see a Peacful team and the Goa'uld could probley fool us into leting them "Help"

[mother-goose]

I agree with the others, it can be destroyed, it happens to exist in them all but by destroying one wont make the entire system collapse, the example of the stargates is a good one

Spoiler:

especially when ba'al goes beaming them away, the worlds just arent accessable the rest of the gate system is fine

[Bragi]

I had all sorts of troubles with that episode. Spoiler, highlight to read:

Like the Black SG-1 knowing that the AR (I prefer Alternate Reality, because AU is Astronomical Unit, the distance from the Sun to the Earth) they were going to would:

1.) Not be overrun with the Ori fleet like their's was.

2.) Have a working ZPM.

3.) Have a Prometheus to steal.

4.) Have an Atlantis Expedition.

5.) The Atlantis Expedition would have a working ZPM.

6.) They'd be able to beam the ZPM off Atlantis without the help of an Asgard.

7.) They'd be able to smuggle the ZPM out of our reality.

8.) The mere fact that they knew all of this to begin with. Either they were told about our Atlantis and our ZPM (which doesn't make sense because why would someone bring that up in idle conversation) or they asked which would be stupid on their part because it could tip their hand.

9.) Black Daniel was willing to go along with it, because our Daniel would never go along with it (and they're the same Daniel, basically).

10.) Black Sam, who had the same experience with helping an alternate version of herself as our Sam had in "Point of View" was now willing to screw over yet another alternate version of herself.

Don't get me wrong, the overall concept of the episode was good, and it was so wonderful to see Janet (and to a lesser degree) Martouf again. But all those issues, plus a couple more, just left a bad taste in my mouth. A lot of things just.... fell into place for the sake of the story and I felt a little bit insulted.

[theStormWeaver]

I had all sorts of troubles with that episode. Spoiler, highlight to read:

Like the Black SG-1 knowing that the AR (I prefer Alternate Reality, because AU is Astronomical Unit, the distance from the Sun to the Earth) they were going to would:

1.) Not be overrun with the Ori fleet like their's was.

2.) Have a working ZPM.

3.) Have a Prometheus to steal.

4.) Have an Atlantis Expedition.

5.) The Atlantis Expedition would have a working ZPM.

6.) They'd be able to beam the ZPM off Atlantis without the help of an Asgard.

7.) They'd be able to smuggle the ZPM out of our reality.

8.) The mere fact that they knew all of this to begin with. Either they were told about our Atlantis and our ZPM (which doesn't make sense because why would someone bring that up in idle conversation) or they asked which would be stupid on their part because it could tip their hand.

9.) Black Daniel was willing to go along with it, because our Daniel would never go along with it (and they're the same Daniel, basically).

10.) Black Sam, who had the same experience with helping an alternate version of herself as our Sam had in "Point of View" was now willing to screw over yet another alternate version of herself.

Don't get me wrong, the overall concept of the episode was good, and it was so wonderful to see Janet (and to a lesser degree) Martouf again. But all those issues, plus a couple more, just left a bad taste in my mouth. A lot of things just.... fell into place for the sake of the story and I felt a little bit insulted.

I don't think black Carter could have had the same Alt Carter experience as ours. How could she? OUR carter helped the long haired carter. Besides, they probably were just going for a long shot. They could have easily figured out we had a full ZPM and that it was in Atlantis, and that they had a Prommie. All they had to say was "Oh, this happened in our reality, what about yours?" And it would have made perfect sense, no one would have suspected a thing. As long as they asked about more than the ZPM, and more than the Prommie they wouldn't have had any problems.

[The Signal]

I had all sorts of troubles with that episode.

Spoiler:

9.) Black Daniel was willing to go along with it, because our Daniel would never go along with it (and they're the same Daniel, basically).

Really, i saw it as part of his character that was present in Absolute Power (yes it was an illusion but I believe that it was shown to him to show what HE could do) and Prototype with his reaction to

Spoiler:

Khalek

he is much able to do what is needed (or he thinks is needed) than many think. Anyway this is off topic, so i will shut up now.

[Bragi]

I don't think black Carter could have had the same Alt Carter experience as ours. How could she?

Because the divergence in realities between our Carter and Black Carter happened at a point after "Beachead," but before "Ripple Effect."

/edit-

Really, i saw it as part of his character that was present in Absolute Power (yes it was an illusion but I believe that it was shown to him to show what HE could do) and Prototype with his reaction to SPOILERS (Highlight below to read):
Khalek he is much able to do what is needed (or he thinks is needed) than many think. Anyway this is off topic, so i will shut up now.

"Absolute Power" wasn't about what was in Daniel's character all along so much as it was about the futility of trying to get good from evil. It was about proving to everyone that you couldn't screen the evil out of a Goa'uld. If you took a Goa'uld's memory, you would be taking their evil desires along with it.

CARTER
What did you do to Daniel?

SHIFU
Dreams sometimes teach. I am teaching him.

CARTER
Teaching him what?

SHIFU
That the true nature of a man is determined in the battle between his conscious mind and his subconscious and that the evil in my subconscious is too strong to resist.

[Daniel enters.]

DANIEL
The only way to win is to deny it battle.

SHIFU
As Oma teaches.

So as I said, it wasn't about the evil in Daniel, it was the evil of Apophis that would have come with his knowledge.

...Oh why the hell not?

[Endeavour]

Ok, a lot of replies saying the same thing, ie: the mirror is like the gate, lose one mirror and you just lose that location.

I disagree with this a bit. The gates are totally different to the mirror. The gates are used to travel within a dimension, whereas the mirror connects two separate dimensions together.

I see the mirror as working fundamentally different. The gates are a network, A can connect to B, B to C, C to A and so on. The mirror IMO is not a network. It somehow exploits a point where all the dimensions connect. Think of them like a rolodex - each dimension is totally separate to the adjacent dimensions, but they are all connected to the same central spine. So if the mirror is part of the central spine connecting all the dimensions, it must exist in all dimensions at the same time. It doesn't have to be in the same physical place in each dimension to do this, it's just part of the central spine.

Ah well. It's just a thought. It seems a more logical way to connect dimensions than a gate-network-type system.

[PG15]

So what happens if one is destroyed?

Looking at it as a gate system is much more convenient IMHO. From one mirror you can "gate to" all the other available mirrors. Those that are without mirrors would be isolated from the mirror system.

Simple.

[Endeavour]

So what happens if one is destroyed?

Exactly, that was what prompted my original question.

Looking at it as a gate system is much more convenient IMHO. From one mirror you can "gate to" all the other available mirrors. Those that are without mirrors would be isolated from the mirror system. Simple.

More convenient, but IMO wrong. What use is a quantum mirror if it only allows you access to dimensions where your counterpart has also developed a mirror. That's a real paradoxical situation. The original developer of the mirror would logically understand that all dimensions can be different, therefore there is no guarantee that anyone in any other dimension has developed the same mirror, therefore the mirror could essentially be useless if it worked like a gate. The mirror looks identical in all dimensions too.

It just feels like it's a connection point rather than a transport system...

[FallenAngelII]

I had all sorts of troubles with that episode. Spoiler, highlight to read:

Like the Black SG-1 knowing that the AR (I prefer Alternate Reality, because AU is Astronomical Unit, the distance from the Sun to the Earth) they were going to would:

1.) Not be overrun with the Ori fleet like their's was.

2.) Have a working ZPM.

3.) Have a Prometheus to steal.

4.) Have an Atlantis Expedition.

5.) The Atlantis Expedition would have a working ZPM.

6.) They'd be able to beam the ZPM off Atlantis without the help of an Asgard.

7.) They'd be able to smuggle the ZPM out of our reality.

8.) The mere fact that they knew all of this to begin with. Either they were told about our Atlantis and our ZPM (which doesn't make sense because why would someone bring that up in idle conversation) or they asked which would be stupid on their part because it could tip their hand.

9.) Black Daniel was willing to go along with it, because our Daniel would never go along with it (and they're the same Daniel, basically).

10.) Black Sam, who had the same experience with helping an alternate version of herself as our Sam had in "Point of View" was now willing to screw over yet another alternate version of herself.

Don't get me wrong, the overall concept of the episode was good, and it was so wonderful to see Janet (and to a lesser degree) Martouf again. But all those issues, plus a couple more, just left a bad taste in my mouth. A lot of things just.... fell into place for the sake of the story and I felt a little bit insulted.

1) It was a longshot.
3-5) All of the realities that got "merged" were in close proximity to each other, which cancelled the entropic cascade failure. Their Carter must've figured this out. Close proximity = Almost everything is the same.
6) They don't need the Asgard to beam stuff out.

Spoiler:

Just look at what the Odyssey did in "Off the Grid".

7) It was never said that they couldn't open a gateway back through another Stargate. Actually, it's perfectly feasible and probably that they could and would.
8) Answered already. Also, proximity.
9) The script originally called for a scene where Black Daniel said that he was against it and questioned if what they did was right at all with Black Mitchell. It had to be cut for time.
10) Really, really, really desperate. Besides, what's Atlantis compared to the entire Milky Way? Oh noes, the Atlantis Expedition will fail! They already have the computer virus Zelenka made to wipe out the entire Ancient Database and the auto-destruct, hence, making it impossible for the Wraith to get to the Milky Way by taking over Atlantis. And it's not like they would destroy the Prometheus. Worst case scenario, the people in Atlantis would just have to evacuate to their alpha site and have the Prometheus shuttle them back home.

[The Signal]

Endeavour, if the the QM was created by some species somewhere in Space Time and AU's, and it didnt just occur, as your logic is suggesting, then they would have to know three things:

A: A point of Origin - For return journeys
B: A point of Destination
C: The pathway required

To know these they would have to be able to traverse AU's in another method, without those three things then the travel would either not work or would be random, as we know it isnt, therfore it stands to reason that they traveled through other AU's building mirrors as a shortcut, as the Ancients did with the gates. This would indicate that at one point the mirrors would have to have existed in some dimensions and not others. If the mirrors were made by the same beings in different dimensions then there is no way they could guarantee a connection, through either a gate system style connection or your central connection theory. Therefore there are two possibilities, interdimensional communication, highly unlikely as a connection could still not be made definate, or a species that exists outside of the normal dimensions.