Wraith Theory

[TheDanielJackson]

For those of you read the info on the first couple of Episodes of Season 3 (that has presented here on Gateworld), This New Alien can fit in nicely with... Read on...

(*EDIT*: I thought it would be a spoiler - I may have made an error in stating that is was in the Subject heading)



I think that the Alien Race, that is to be introduced (*EDIT* - So the New Enemy Introduced is the Asurans - And they were created by the the Ancients. So ruling the Asurans out... But I choose to keep the script as I orignally posted because - well that is how it was at first) in Season 3, may have played a role in the Development of the Wraith. Cloning them to produce them in Significant numbers to drastically reduce the amount of sentient beings present in PG - if not destroy all life in the PG. Providing the Technology required for Interstellar Travel and weaponry. Afterall, this 'new' Alien Race had (supposedly) created the HZ Virus. Maybe this New Alien Race was conducting an experiment (making the HZ Virus another Experiment) - Find new means for Destruction and then creating Counter Measures...


The Wraith are said to Descendants of the ancients. However, it was because of the Numbers (that the wraith had) that defeated the the Lantians. The Lantians were at war with the Wraith for (approximately) a century? Even the Hive's Queen in Ep 220 stated the "technology of the City was far more powerful than that of the wraith". But, the Wraith are Descendants of the Ancients - shouldn't they be able to create technology that matched up evenly with that of the Ancients? They came close - but not setting a perfect match. Shouldn't the war have been a stalemate?

Of course the Wraith, being a new Species (in PG), would have needed more time to get up to speed (and the level) that the lantians were... But they came close... Why did they (only) come so close?
With so many mouths to feed, why did it take so long for the Lantians to Discover the Species? Why did the War start - just over 10,000 years?

Yes, the Wraith were in more Numbers. How did they manage to grow to such numbers? Why do so many of the wraith appear to be drone-like? The Hierarchy of the Wraith seems to be limited. Yes, there are those who do indicate that they are Intelligent Beings - Hive Queen, Scientists... But there seems to be many that simply take orders. The First numbers of Wraith, would have originated from Ancients - that the Eratus (sp) Bug fed off of. That number of Ancients (Who fell victim to this) should be smaller than the Number Ancients who did not fall victim to the bug. It is an assumption. But my logic is that the Ancients, being as brilliant as they were, would not be lacking the intelligence to realize that it is best to not get in contact with the bug. Was there was a mass-Cloning procedure (To increase the numbers)?


How did the Wraith Acquire their Ships? In Ep 220:

McKAY: The organic base of a lot of your technology – it's, uh, it's quite amazing. Very, um, resilient.

WRAITH: Many of the problems we encounter eventually heal themselves, yes, but there are smaller, more complex issues.

McKAY: Ah. Such as the programming code to make your old ships do new things?

WRAITH: Or bypassing inoperable systems, yes. It has been so long since we have fought a *real* battle.

Shouldn't there be at least one Wraith, on board Each Ship, that knows the ship inside-out? Why is this not the case? Why do they (Wraith) Need Help? It can be argued that there were centralized locations for various activities - including ship building and repairs (in which case, where are these locations?).

Why do the Wraith appear to Be Nomadic? There has not been any mention of any Wraith Facilities (again, like shipyards). They Originated from Somewhere - but where exactly? Where is the homeworld?


This is what I can come up with - because the Wraith do not seem 'that intelligent' to really have been a threat against the Ancients/Lantians. All they had were some Muscle and a Lot of Numbers


Your thoughts?

(Forgive me if the coherence is iffy, at best. I was thinking about this during a study break - and thought it best to get the idea out right now... lol)

[vaberella]

For those of you read the info on the first couple of Episodes of Season 3 (that has presented here on Gateworld), This New Alien can fit in nicely with... Read on...

(*EDIT*: I thought it would be a spoiler - I may have made an error in stating that is was in the Subject heading)

I think that the Alien Race, that is to be introduced in Season 3, may have played a role in the Development of the Wraith. Cloning them to produce them in Significant numbers to drastically reduce the amount of sentient beings present in PG - if not destroy all life in the PG. Providing the Technology required for Interstellar Travel and weaponry. Afterall, this 'new' Alien Race had (supposedly) created the HZ Virus. Maybe this New Alien Race was conducting an experiment (making the HZ Virus another Experiment) - Find new means for Destruction and then creating Counter Measures...

This could be correct..your estimation that is. Because from what we gathered in 'The Gift' through the assumptions of the doctors is that the humans evolved on teh same planet on the Iratus bug. But if it comes out that they were actually sort of manufactured by this new alien race which poses a threat it makes better sense. I hope this gives more insight into Beckett's role as doctor. He himself had said he believed that the Iratus bug took in human dna after ingesting them..but that never made much sense to me. But if this is sort of like a 'guyver' situation where these alien races are so superior and can easily combine the dna of two beings to create one race that's beyond provocative.

It would also bring up what was said in the 'The Gift' of the Wraith doing tests...it never made sense to me that a Wraith would run tests to feed on humans....and then just release them into the population. I don't know..it could just be me but it just never meshed right. If they were such a threat these humans why not just kill them and feed.

Maybe who knows...the alien race probably was afraid also of the Wraith and found them to be too great in number and were hoping to creat a more superior race and one far more affective against the Wraith. Since the Atlantian's were no longer a threat to them...or found them no longer important. But this scientist was found out by the Wraith and was probably killed and then the humans that were tested on was then found to be a threat to the Wraith....Wow..I like how this goes.

The Wraith are said to Descendants of the ancients. However, it was because of the Numbers (that the wraith had) that defeated the the Lantians. The Lantians were at war with the Wraith for (approximately) a century? Even the Hive's Queen in Ep 220 stated the "technology of the City was far more powerful than that of the wraith". But, the Wraith are Descendants of the Ancients - shouldn't they be able to create technology that matched up evenly with that of the Ancients? They came close - but not setting a perfect match. Shouldn't the war have been a stalemate?

Of course the Wraith, being a new Species (in PG), would have needed more time to get up to speed (and the level) that the lantians were... But they came close... Why did they (only) come so close?
With so many mouths to feed, why did it take so long for the Lantians to Discover the Species? Why did the War start - just over 10,000 years?

Okay for coming so close to the Atlantians..and them being a new race..it would take a few centuries to get as powerful intellectually as the Atlantians. And my problem with this comment is from what I gathered in the 'The Gift' is that the Atlantians allowed through negligance or not being aware that the Iratus bug was around so allowed humans to live there. But there was no talk of the Ancients. And from waht I gathered in the planets..most of the ancients either fled or ascended. Everyone else is pretty much human without the gene factor at all.

but what's interesting if your saying that his new race that probably created the 'microtech' (my name for that virus) killer...what if their the one's who were speaking in a derivative of Ancient and not the Wraith at all. Going back to the 'The Gift' again...we see that Weir says that the language seems to be a derivative but again it could be possible that these aliens were not Wraiths who were doing the tests as I said previously....but could be the ones as you put in your idea. Which sort of flows.

The Atlantians we probably dont' even know...might actually have had an alliance of some sort with the Wraith to keep their numbers at a reasonable level...by providing them with humans to feed on...again back to 'The Gift' the commment of negligence mentioned by McKay.

Yes, the Wraith were in more Numbers. How did they manage to grow to such numbers? Why do so many of the wraith appear to be drone-like? The Hierarchy of the Wraith seems to be limited. Yes, there are those who do indicate that they are Intelligent Beings - Hive Queen, Scientists... But there seems to be many that simply take orders. The First numbers of Wraith, would have originated from Ancients - that the Eratus (sp) Bug fed off of. That number of Ancients (Who fell victim to this) should be smaller than the Number Ancients who did not fall victim to the bug. It is an assumption. But my logic is that the Ancients, being as brilliant as they were, would not be lacking the intelligence to realize that it is best to not get in contact with the bug. Was there was a mass-Cloning procedure (To increase the numbers)?

That's interesting that you think that there are Ancients who fell victim to the Iratus bug....What if then maybe there were Ancients who wanted to fight on their own turf, ancient scientists and injected themselves with a virus that was similar in properties to the Iratus bug...and then by then falling victim to the same fate..and other's of their kind all fell victim...or...Remember in 'The Tower' there was an Atlantean base as well as in

Spoiler:

The Inferno

we see a lot of bases..what if one of the bases was pretty much victim of a virus exposed to them and also turning them into the creatures..to destroy the atlantean people like the microtech killer..

How did the Wraith Acquire their Ships? In Ep 220:

McKAY: The organic base of a lot of your technology – it's, uh, it's quite amazing. Very, um, resilient.

WRAITH: Many of the problems we encounter eventually heal themselves, yes, but there are smaller, more complex issues.

McKAY: Ah. Such as the programming code to make your old ships do new things?

WRAITH: Or bypassing inoperable systems, yes. It has been so long since we have fought a *real* battle.

Shouldn't there be at least one Wraith, on board Each Ship, that knows the ship inside-out? Why is this not the case? Why do they (Wraith) Need Help? It can be argued that there were centralized locations for various activities - including ship building and repairs (in which case, where are these locations?).

Why do the Wraith appear to Be Nomadic? There has not been any mention of any Wraith Facilities (again, like shipyards). They Originated from Somewhere - but where exactly? Where is the homeworld?


This is what I can come up with - because the Wraith do not seem 'that intelligent' to really have been a threat against the Ancients/Lantians. All they had were some Muscle and a Lot of Numbers


Your thoughts?

(Forgive me if the coherence is iffy, at best. I was thinking about this during a study break - and thought it best to get the idea out right now... lol)

I tink there are Wraith that know the ship...the Queen said

Spoiler:

in that episode that it would be hard to get into that part of the ship....

and it seem sto me there is one leader male and one female. I think it's possible that there are people who know the ship well. What their problem is knowing how to functionally dismantle other ships. Further more I think that they you are right..thier not that intelligent---although fairly evolved.

I'm startign to think that maybe the Wraith worked for the Atlanteans as one of the main plausibilities. Ever seen Planet of the Apes..the Apes were slaves until they could talk and said 'no'and then create a society similar to our own.

As for being Nomadic..most people are in general and there is also dissention within the ranks. Personally I think their far more humanistic than people give them credit for. Tehy create societies and if you look at most African nations before colonization and the same in the Americas or just those people who are natives they are all nomadic and they live in small clustered communties. And each person has a rank..it's even seen in the show. YOu have the regular villagers, the high ranking officers and then you have the elders and what not..there's also in some tribes the medicine man who is as equal to the tribal elders if not more so.

To seek origins is pointeless because they move for one reason for better feeding ground or better livign conditions when cases get unbearable...if you have ever heard of the 'basket' people their one of them. Indian tribe that was pretty much perfect an had an amazing irrigation system and fairly advance but disappeared and left all their properties behind..why?! Multitude of reasons..same can be said about the earliest tribes as they came from Southern african and then something happend and we see a breaking off of people..some going to India---Australia and china.. Other clusters of this african tribe following up north along the River as the Nile flows upward.




Shoot..I have a lot to say but little time...so I'm gonan let you know when your writing spoilers you should do this and I'll be responding in about 2 hours...I want to hit on all the thoughts that you put out..because a lot of them are good and it does make me wonder.

VB

[T'saria]

For those of you read the info on the first couple of Episodes of Season 3 (that has presented here on Gateworld), This New Alien can fit in nicely with... Read on...

(*EDIT*: I thought it would be a spoiler - I may have made an error in stating that is was in the Subject heading)

I think that the Alien Race, that is to be introduced in Season 3, may have played a role in the Development of the Wraith. Cloning them to produce them in Significant numbers to drastically reduce the amount of sentient beings present in PG - if not destroy all life in the PG. Providing the Technology required for Interstellar Travel and weaponry. Afterall, this 'new' Alien Race had (supposedly) created the HZ Virus. Maybe this New Alien Race was conducting an experiment (making the HZ Virus another Experiment) - Find new means for Destruction and then creating Counter Measures...


The Wraith are said to Descendants of the ancients. However, it was because of the Numbers (that the wraith had) that defeated the the Lantians. The Lantians were at war with the Wraith for (approximately) a century? Even the Hive's Queen in Ep 220 stated the "technology of the City was far more powerful than that of the wraith". But, the Wraith are Descendants of the Ancients - shouldn't they be able to create technology that matched up evenly with that of the Ancients? They came close - but not setting a perfect match. Shouldn't the war have been a stalemate?

Of course the Wraith, being a new Species (in PG), would have needed more time to get up to speed (and the level) that the lantians were... But they came close... Why did they (only) come so close?
With so many mouths to feed, why did it take so long for the Lantians to Discover the Species? Why did the War start - just over 10,000 years?

Yes, the Wraith were in more Numbers. How did they manage to grow to such numbers? Why do so many of the wraith appear to be drone-like? The Hierarchy of the Wraith seems to be limited. Yes, there are those who do indicate that they are Intelligent Beings - Hive Queen, Scientists... But there seems to be many that simply take orders. The First numbers of Wraith, would have originated from Ancients - that the Eratus (sp) Bug fed off of. That number of Ancients (Who fell victim to this) should be smaller than the Number Ancients who did not fall victim to the bug. It is an assumption. But my logic is that the Ancients, being as brilliant as they were, would not be lacking the intelligence to realize that it is best to not get in contact with the bug. Was there was a mass-Cloning procedure (To increase the numbers)?


How did the Wraith Acquire their Ships? In Ep 220:

McKAY: The organic base of a lot of your technology – it's, uh, it's quite amazing. Very, um, resilient.

WRAITH: Many of the problems we encounter eventually heal themselves, yes, but there are smaller, more complex issues.

McKAY: Ah. Such as the programming code to make your old ships do new things?

WRAITH: Or bypassing inoperable systems, yes. It has been so long since we have fought a *real* battle.

Shouldn't there be at least one Wraith, on board Each Ship, that knows the ship inside-out? Why is this not the case? Why do they (Wraith) Need Help? It can be argued that there were centralized locations for various activities - including ship building and repairs (in which case, where are these locations?).

Why do the Wraith appear to Be Nomadic? There has not been any mention of any Wraith Facilities (again, like shipyards). They Originated from Somewhere - but where exactly? Where is the homeworld?


This is what I can come up with - because the Wraith do not seem 'that intelligent' to really have been a threat against the Ancients/Lantians. All they had were some Muscle and a Lot of Numbers


Your thoughts?

(Forgive me if the coherence is iffy, at best. I was thinking about this during a study break - and thought it best to get the idea out right now... lol)

I have a feeling your responder below will be more verboise
than me...but I will hit a few thoughts of my own

wraith nomadic - i think they are currently nomadic because
there are so many awake at the same time. they are depleting
their feeding grounds. typically they awaken their people in
"shifts" to avoid depleting the feeding grounds. so.. I think they
are wandering due to a need to eat. based on a few EPs from
Season 1, it looks like they keep their ships based on planets
and the planets around them are their territory...

as for technology, etc - i agree that we haven't seen or
heard much about it. or the type of personal they have on
board. just the queen. the commanders and the guards.
either this more we don't know. or it is that simple..
but I find that hard to believe.

ancients and wraith - my understanding is the wraith were
an accident and the ancients tried to eliminate them. that's about
as much relationship as you get. i think the wraith are much
more human than previously thought and they are actually
a human mutation rather than a bug mutation. so that would
account for their language deriving from the ancients.

Cloning - well if they can clone themselves, why aren't
they cloning humans..just wondering. I don't believe they
were cloned. their numbers increased in the past because the
human population could sustain those numbers. when there
were less and less humans..less wraith remained/survived.

[CommanderThor69]

I agree with alot of the things you pointed out, Im gonna give my thoughts to some of the questions and things you pointed out.

I think that the Alien Race, that is to be introduced in Season 3, may have played a role in the Development of the Wraith. Cloning them to produce them in Significant numbers to drastically reduce the amount of sentient beings present in PG - if not destroy all life in the PG. Providing the Technology required for Interstellar Travel and weaponry. Afterall, this 'new' Alien Race had (supposedly) created the HZ Virus. Maybe this New Alien Race was conducting an experiment (making the HZ Virus another Experiment) - Find new means for Destruction and then creating Counter Measures...

-Another point, what if the new race was technologically advance, but didnt really have the experience in combat to fight a war, so they found the Wraith, and cloned soldiers for the wraith. This new species might be like a foot tall, or and insect type species, They wouldnt be able to fight. So what if this new race created or cloned the wraith, knowing that they would eventually consume all their food, and then turn on eachother, it might take a long time, but we have seen "patient" races before.

The Wraith are said to Descendants of the ancients. ...

-(So are we)

Of course the Wraith, being a new Species (in PG), would have needed more time to get up to speed (and the level) that the lantians were.../
Yes, the Wraith were in more Numbers.How did they manage to grow to such numbers?...


-Exactly, sense the Ancients were first, how is it the wraith outnumber them?

originated from Ancients - that the Eratus (sp) Bug fed off of. ...

-Another theory, what if the heirarchy originated from the bugs that fed off the Ancients, and the dumber one were the ones who fed off of regular humans


Why do the Wraith appear to Be Nomadic? There has not been any mention of any Wraith Facilities (again, like shipyards). They Originated from Somewhere - but where exactly? Where is the homeworld?...[/SIZE][/FONT]


-That is something i would like to see, a Wraith homeworld

[Prior_of_the_Ori]

On the matter about Wraith outnumbering other races....its possible that they just simply breed in far greater numbers then humans. Though currently its not known if their reproductive capabilities follow the Iratus bug or humans...we known childhood is more humanistic for them.

[TheDanielJackson]

Okay for coming so close to the Atlantians..and them being a new race..it would take a few centuries to get as powerful intellectually as the Atlantians. And my problem with this comment is from what I gathered in the 'The Gift' is that the Atlantians allowed through negligance or not being aware that the Iratus bug was around so allowed humans to live there. But there was no talk of the Ancients. And from waht I gathered in the planets..most of the ancients either fled or ascended. Everyone else is pretty much human without the gene factor at all.

Ahhh.. This is where some History on the Ancients would help... Because Given that the Ancients Left for the PG millions of years ago - shouldn't there have been quite a number of discoveries and Breakthrough made on their part? Even if the Wraith were a new Species (Born in the PG) The Lantians Should have quite the head start over them. Although I was also thinking that They (The Ancients) had stretched as far as they can go... Reaching some sort of intellectual/enlightenment Plateau - Considering the Ancients (that ascended) Required a massive amount of Brain usage. Another Idea that I can come up with is that There may have been some sort of Discovery Dark Ages - A lot more time and resources being spent on figuring out how to Ascend (than on anything else). This could also explain why the Ancients seemed not prepared for the Wraith - and thus heading back to Earth. The Ancients were probably caught off-guard. That would fit in with what you said about the Ancients Neglecting the Wraith - for a Long period of time.

The Atlantians we probably dont' even know...might actually have had an alliance of some sort with the Wraith to keep their numbers at a reasonable level...by providing them with humans to feed on...again back to 'The Gift' the commment of negligence mentioned by McKay.

That is an idea that's... Hmmmm... If it were to be a Part of the history in the SG Universe - I would like to know how that came to be (and what caused the failure of it). It may even throw a New twist about the Ancients... Maybe there was this Radical Faction within the Lantean Society that were behind that - which spawned the Wraith. (yes, i just said that - I would like to beleive that the Ancients were quite the Epitome of what Mankind could be lol)

That's interesting that you think that there are Ancients who fell victim to the Iratus bug....What if then maybe there were Ancients who wanted to fight on their own turf, ancient scientists and injected themselves with a virus that was similar in properties to the Iratus bug...and then by then falling victim to the same fate..and other's of their kind all fell victim...or...Remember in 'The Tower' there was an Atlantean base as well as in

Spoiler:

The Inferno

we see a lot of bases..what if one of the bases was pretty much victim of a virus exposed to them and also turning them into the creatures..to destroy the atlantean people like the microtech killer..

But given the adverse Side effects, and assuming that the Ancients had some Code of Ethics - wouldn't they have ceased any attempts to use such a serum (as I would put it)? Of course, it can also be said that the Ancients had Laws about The Treatment of Life (like the Geneva Convention) - thus giving reason as to why the Species was not wiped out in its infant stage (Oh the Wonder Of Ethical Delimnas - Janus' Time machine would have been helpful...)

I tink there are Wraith that know the ship...the Queen said

Spoiler:

in that episode that it would be hard to get into that part of the ship....

and it seem sto me there is one leader male and one female. I think it's possible that there are people who know the ship well. What their problem is knowing how to functionally dismantle other ships. Further more I think that they you are right..thier not that intelligent---although fairly evolved.

Ahhh, but That only hinted to them knowing about the security measures in place. I That should be crucial, given that the Hive Ships are manned by a skeleton Crew - during the Hibernation period. No?

As it goes for knowing the Ship's Systems... To use a simple Analogy... I am into cars (a bit). I can probably figure out what is the problem with it - if a problem does come up. But It does not mean that I have the Technical knowledge/specifications required to rectify that problem (on the spot). Luckily, I do not have to worry about a Deep Space environment sucking the air out of me (or causing my skin to boil) lol

I'm startign to think that maybe the Wraith worked for the Atlanteans as one of the main plausibilities. Ever seen Planet of the Apes..the Apes were slaves until they could talk and said 'no'and then create a society similar to our own.

Would that Tie into the Ancient/Wraith Alliance that you mentioned earlier? It sounds as if it can be... But what kind of work would the Wraith have been doing?

As for being Nomadic..most people are in general and there is also dissention within the ranks. Personally I think their far more humanistic than people give them credit for. Tehy create societies and if you look at most African nations before colonization and the same in the Americas or just those people who are natives they are all nomadic and they live in small clustered communties. And each person has a rank..it's even seen in the show. YOu have the regular villagers, the high ranking officers and then you have the elders and what not..there's also in some tribes the medicine man who is as equal to the tribal elders if not more so.

To seek origins is pointeless because they move for one reason for better feeding ground or better livign conditions when cases get unbearable...if you have ever heard of the 'basket' people their one of them. Indian tribe that was pretty much perfect an had an amazing irrigation system and fairly advance but disappeared and left all their properties behind..why?! Multitude of reasons..same can be said about the earliest tribes as they came from Southern african and then something happend and we see a breaking off of people..some going to India---Australia and china.. Other clusters of this african tribe following up north along the River as the Nile flows upward.

Good point, indeed. The Wraith Speices do make up a Civilization. Another thought that had hit me (when I read that): Maybe they saw no need for a centralized world - given their need to feed (as well). It would not have been efficient to Cull on one side of the Galaxy only to travel to the Other side (with their Food source). The Supply would have seen some spoilage en Route. this does raise my curiousity even more about how their ships came to be...

[TheDanielJackson]

On the matter about Wraith outnumbering other races....its possible that they just simply breed in far greater numbers then humans. Though currently its not known if their reproductive capabilities follow the Iratus bug or humans...we known childhood is more humanistic for them.

Then is there a decline in the Population size (at this time)? There are just under 60 Hive Ships in the PG Galaxy. On one hand, it is better for the remaining few - a Greater Food source (because of the ratio of Wraith to Humanoids is in faovr of humanoids). But without their Numbers, they can easily be defeated in war (providing a formidable enemy is present)

Given that such is not the case with the Wraith, and that the did in fact breed (as opposed to being Mass Cloned), was there a Biological reason as to why they can no longer reproduce?

[TheDanielJackson]

Cloning - well if they can clone themselves, why aren't
they cloning humans..just wondering. I don't believe they
were cloned. their numbers increased in the past because the
human population could sustain those numbers. when there
were less and less humans..less wraith remained/survived.

Ahhh... I was thinking that it was the 'HZ Aliens' that Cloned the Wraith. It would be an Automatic Failsafe to not have the Wraith gain Knowledge about the (Cloning) Procedure - to Maintain the Status Quo (that the 'HZ Aliens' had set, for themselves)

[T'saria]

Ahhh... I was thinking that it was the 'HZ Aliens' that Cloned the Wraith. It would be an Automatic Failsafe to not have the Wraith gain Knowledge about the (Cloning) Procedure - to Maintain the Status Quo (that the 'HZ Aliens' had set, for themselves)

The HZ Aliens...I am gettinng very curious about these new
guys...I only hope the writers to them justice. It seems they
have alot on their hands. the Ori, the wraith and now
another group of aliens. Then again..they have multiple
aliens in SG-1 so maybe it just makes things more interesting.

TheDanielJackson comments...about the ancients reaching
an intellectual plateau...I wonder if it was more that they
lost interest in the intellect and more in the spiritual and
ascension..just a thought..

[TheDanielJackson]

The HZ Aliens...I am gettinng very curious about these new
guys...I only hope the writers to them justice. It seems they
have alot on their hands. the Ori, the wraith and now
another group of aliens. Then again..they have multiple
aliens in SG-1 so maybe it just makes things more interesting.

TheDanielJackson comments...about the ancients reaching
an intellectual plateau...I wonder if it was more that they
lost interest in the intellect and more in the spiritual and
ascension..just a thought..

lol... I really hope so too. For the sake of my theory ()... j/k... But To Redeem the Series after what season 2 did to it.

Spiritual? As in something that constitutes as some sort of Religion? Well there was a split in the Philosophies of the Race from which the Alterans and Ori were born from... It sounds ironic for the Alterans to finally head in the Direction that the Ori Took. Albeit that the ethics which the Alterans were bound to - did not make them turn out like the Ori.

Care to Elaborate?

[vaberella]

Ahhh.. This is where some History on the Ancients would help... Because Given that the Ancients Left for the PG millions of years ago - shouldn't there have been quite a number of discoveries and Breakthrough made on their part? Even if the Wraith were a new Species (Born in the PG) The Lantians Should have quite the head start over them. Although I was also thinking that They (The Ancients) had stretched as far as they can go... Reaching some sort of intellectual/enlightenment Plateau - Considering the Ancients (that ascended) Required a massive amount of Brain usage. Another Idea that I can come up with is that There may have been some sort of Discovery Dark Ages - A lot more time and resources being spent on figuring out how to Ascend (than on anything else). This could also explain why the Ancients seemed not prepared for the Wraith - and thus heading back to Earth. The Ancients were probably caught off-guard. That would fit in with what you said about the Ancients Neglecting the Wraith - for a Long period of time.

I agree almost. From what I gathered in watch 'Epiphany' is that they were seeking more so spiritual enlightenment rather than the technological or intellectual. Those people were also ancients seeking to ascend, but again I saw it was more of a spiritual feet, rather than one that was seeking intellectual superiority. I recieved the same feeling in the episode with Chaya. Unless of course there were different levels of ascension, itself. Maybe those people that returned to earth might have not reached that spiritual plane of greatness and hence ran back to earth.

I do know that from the beginning of society that religion and spirituality has been the foundation of for life, the respect of the unknown and to seek all the reasons of humanity and the earth, so that some people seeking a higher plane of existence and enlightenment was of the spiritual origin. The intellectual plane was not through technological superiority but understanding your place on earth or in this case maybe galaxies.

But I willl say compared to humans the Atlanteans were more advanced than us. But in the pegasus galaxy this was sort of brought up...or even looking at McKay himself. Let me see if I can break this down clearly. When we look at 'Home' Teyla makes the statement that 'if they were not plagued by the Wraith, would their city have ever developed into such as this (earth)'; I think this is significant.....Humans in essence can reach the level of the Ancients technology wise or even the way our scientists seemed to adapt themselves so well to ancient tech like in 'Rising'--now let's look at McKay...on many occasions McKay has proven himself to be technological superior based on only human capablilities than even the ancients...and he was already this smart before the ATA gene--which he was injected with. So I think there's too much of a focus on their intellectual superiority because they were technologically advanced to us by a few millenias...

If they were a new species but descendents of the Ancients..then it wouldn't be a surprise to see their advancement especially at such an advanced rate. It seems to me that the Wraith are a fairly intelligent species, obviously far more advanced than normal humans. And they don't seem to have the basic instincts of the insect. Or if we were to agree with your idea of the 'microtech killers' as being their originator then I could also see this as being them very advanced.

Well the negligance was actually mentioned by McKay in 'The Gift'---he's the one who said that..and I wondered why. But how do we know it was a need to ascend..isn't it also possible that there are other galaxies that the Ancients were looking into..rather than this intellectual need, you seem set on? This could also explain why the Ancients were not aware and or when they came back...they found this overwhelming amount of Wraith around. Or maybe they were preoccupied with a battle with the 'microtech killer's' and because of this preoccupation--to battle these killers they were unprepared for the amount of the Wraith..

That is an idea that is... If it were to be a Part of the history in the SG Universe - I would like to know how that came to be (and what caused the failure of it). It may even throw a New twist about the Ancients... Maybe there was this Radical Faction within the Lantean Society that were behind that - which spawned the Wraith. (yes, i just said that - I would like to beleive that the Ancients were quite the Epitome of what Mankind could be lol)

I know for an enlightened society and also spiritual you get them feeding off their own kind or human kind to the Wraith. Imagine that...them feeding off Ancients of their own calibre to the Wraith in payment as seen in 'Condemened' which would also relate to what Beckett and WEir said in 'The Gift' about the Iratus bug taking in human properties. Which also implies why there are more superior Wraiths to other Wraiths and why there are scientist among them..over time and also the way the wraith ate those people....well then...who knows what you get. And these could also be scientist or people woh were convicted of crimes and given away. Also it would say a lot about these people that us humans or those on Atlantis idolized. That they too were also embrawled into a situation of dire consequences and made a pact that they should not have. And this seems common in several eps during season 2 and could be implied in season 1.

But given the adverse Side effects, and assuming that the Ancients had some Code of Ethics - wouldn't they have ceased any attempts to use such a serum (as I would put it)? Of course, it can also be said that the Ancients had Laws about The Treatment of Life (like the Geneva Convention) - thus giving reason as to why the Species was not wiped out in its infant stage (Oh the Wonder Of Ethical Delimnas - Janus' Time machine would have been helpful...)

I think we're assuming a lot. We have no knowledge of the Ancients except with Chaya and the civilization they left behind..who even sort of implied that the ancients of her kind didnt' even want her to help her people. So what happens...she's pretty much thrown out of the Ancient (homeland? whatever!) and relegated to helping her home planet. So those people are protected but it seems the Ancients have direct rules of involvement within human misery or anything happening on the planets..that was due to their own fault. So for me to give these beings morals and ethics..(some of the few do have it--ex. chaya). But the other's seem uninterested--just to even develop this law that says they cannot be involved. Seems rather godlike when I think about it. We play around with the silly mortals when the time fits..but ignore them normally. Could also be why McKay mentioned 'negligance' in 'The Gift' since that episode happened afterwards.

Ahhh, but That only hinted to them knowing about the security measures in place. I That should be crucial, given that the Hive Ships are manned by a skeleton Crew - during the Hibernation period. No?

As it goes for knowing the Ship's Systems... To use a simple Analogy... I am into cars (a bit). I can probably figure out what is the problem with it - if a problem does come up. But It does not mean that I have the Technical knowledge/specifications required to rectify that problem (on the spot). Luckily, I do not have to worry about a Deep Space environment sucking the air out of me (or causing my skin to boil) lol

Yes, they were manned by a skeleton crew that also probably new of ships ins and outs. But all the Wraith are awake now...and many more are waking as they were speaking. And so to man the ships....after seeing the ep, I'm thinking the Queen knew of all the weaknesses of the ship...and she seemed a bit miffed that a mortal 'McKay' actually was able to figure so much out in so little time. I think she actualy may know the ship and how it's run. Their problem is actually advancing it to better capabilities.

Well you see too...The Wraith had no knowledge of other galaxies..they have their planets and the humans on these planets were far from advanced...so there was no need to 'fix' anything or 'improve' anything. But since the they are now aware of the new feeding ground and it's location..the need is to get to it as soon as they can---as the Wraith after 'Michael' can see that these humans are a force to be reckoned with.

This could also be the reason why they ganged up on the Daedalus with TWO hive ships not one and several cruisers....with their limited numbers in each hive to match the requirements of the Atlantis crew, and under the guise of one ship....they have another on probably in stealth. And since we know their ships can't travel from destination A to destination c..without making a stop at destination B they get a listing of all the planets...to make pet stops or until McKay can come to their rescue.

Would that Tie into the Ancient/Wraith Alliance that you mentioned earlier? It sounds as if it can be... But what kind of work would the Wraith have been doing?

Actually it was another scenario...although it could work fairly well. But to tie in what I said before with this idea what if this happened. The initial Wraiths were those idiots we see with the masks on the face and who have guns, seem like guards of some kind to me---maybe against other threats let's say the 'microtech killer's'--from HZ. They seems like useless thugs..what if there were many of them running around and they wre the one's who started off...then a scientist or an equally intellectual Wraith develops and falls prey to the Iratus.

Wasn't it established that those with the ATA gene were unaffected by the 'microtech killer' if that's the case..then possibly the WRaith were also unaffected---but humans were not...So if there are other sieges upon their bases the Wraith would be able to take it on while the killers assumed they got the Ancients with the microtechs when in reality it was only killing off the human species....or those with out the prevalent ATA gene.

[vaberella]

Good point, indeed. Maybe they saw no need for a centralized world - given their need to feed. It would not have been efficient to Cull on one side of the Galaxy only to travel to the Other side (with their Food source). The Supply would have seen some spoilage en Route. this does raise my curiousity even more about how their ships came to be...

Actually that was one of my biggest questions on the 'Allies' thread----is it like a fridge that place they wrap them in the fibers?! What is that place?!

Spoiler:

it seemed to me that McKay and Ronon were shivering when tehy were being questioned after they woke within the fibers

If it is like a fridge how does it work....because if someone is in a fridge for too long don't they die?! How are the preservation techniques and technicalities worked out to accomadate the 'frail' human body. I mean humans could get sick and die in those places...so why don't they.....In normal body temperature they would be comfortable but age. IN the fridge like area they are susceptible to sickness and also even if it slows down their aging..those people seem relatively comfortable and sleep....so how is that possible...without getting sick in the long run.

On a side note...how did the humans come about? I really haven't figured out if all humans are descendents of the Ancients. Because although some people tell me that all humans are sort of descendents of the ancients and some have the ATA gene more prevalent..how in some cases does the injection of the ATA gene strand developed by Dr. Beckett doesn't seem to work on some people....and other's seem to have it. Like in 'HZ' we have that McKay is not affected by the 'microtech killer' because of his ATA gene, but we have both Zalenka and Ford affected by it. But in 'The Gift' we have Zalenka saying he can test out the chair, so we can assume he was injected. But I'm wondering if Ford was able to fly the plane because of the ATA gene he got after hot zone or because is now half Wraith or any other random scientist couldn't have sat on the chair if let's say everyone on base was injected... And let's say that everyone was injected against the microtech killer...then why not teyla. Because if we look at it in 'The Tower' Teyla was not chosen by that guy, but she was there when teh HZ infected people..unless her Wraith DNA protected her. And this brings up something else if you notice 'The Tower' that guy was able to use that coder that John uses for to check for people, and Beckett used in 'The Eye' to get to John----he was able to use it..but he didn't have the gene therapy until afterwards..when Beckett gave it to him...And then he was able to sit on the chair. So how was he able to use that little pad thing to check that John had the ATA gene....huh? Unless I'm reading the ep wrong......

It seemed to me they were looking for the ones who already had it without a Wait do we know if Weir has the Ancient gene...or even tested with it? From what I gathered she has not had the gene strand injection from Beckett. And if she hasn't..why wouldn't she? Unless of course she did and it didn't take.


Sorry my post was too long to fit on one page...now you see you have me talking.

[Prior_of_the_Ori]

Then is there a decline in the Population size (at this time)? There are just under 60 Hive Ships in the PG Galaxy. On one hand, it is better for the remaining few - a Greater Food source (because of the ratio of Wraith to Humanoids is in faovr of humanoids). But without their Numbers, they can easily be defeated in war (providing a formidable enemy is present)

Given that such is not the case with the Wraith, and that the did in fact breed (as opposed to being Mass Cloned), was there a Biological reason as to why they can no longer reproduce?

While it was said that there are only 60 hiveships but personally i think there would be a lot more. Can't prove it as such but I think that the data that said that there were only 60 hiveships was just showing some of them not all of them.

Another point it that its possible that they have methods of controlling their population. The Goa'uld Queens could with hold genetic data to her offspring so perhaps they have have such an ability themselves. Or its possible that they feed on eachother to bring the population back to acceptable levels. Remember in Defiant One, the Wraith fed on his own crewmen. Its possible that when there are too many they kill their own or go into hibernation until needed.

[Mattathias2.0]

Why can't Wraith breed?

I wasn't aware they were having problems breeding... and given they have are exponential in numbers with not much food to go around, I don't think breeding is much of an issue.

Infact, they're population should be starting down a spiral given they are warring with themselves all over the place, and probaby feeding off eachother.

I think that however the Wraith came to get to such large numbers to the point where they defeated the Ancients will ultimately be the key, or part of it, in order to defeat the Wraith.

Mattathias

[vaberella]

Why can't Wraith breed?

I wasn't aware they were having problems breeding... and given they have are exponential in numbers with not much food to go around, I don't think breeding is much of an issue.

Infact, they're population should be starting down a spiral given they are warring with themselves all over the place, and probaby feeding off eachother.

I think that however the Wraith came to get to such large numbers to the point where they defeated the Ancients will ultimately be the key, or part of it, in order to defeat the Wraith.

Mattathias

From what I gathered they can't feed off of one another..their not praying mantis' but they breed just fine, just how many and how is the mating should be the question. Look at Elia from 'Instinct' she's full Wraith.