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thenimf
February 5th, 2006, 11:33 PM
So far everyone here (as far as I know) has theorized that Atlantis would rely solely on the ZPM's to fly. I believe that this is incorrect. Even to the ancients (in Before I Sleep) the ZPM's didn't seem to be easily replaced items. I reckon that 3 ZPM's are kinda like a car battery, they would probably be used as a sort of ignition for the engine to initiate use of the real power source.

My theory is that the real power source is sub space itself. It's inconceivable that the Ancients flew from Milky Way to Pegasus on 3 ZPM's, constantly changing them. I doubt the star drive on Atlantis would be powerful/fast enough to get the city between the two galaxies any faster than a few weeks.

I think the coolest thing would be if the city had rings, sorta like a Stargate, but that were just connected to sub space with no particular destination, then the city would just draw residual energy from that.

Yes, I realize that this is very similiar to that sub space thing where McKay blew up that entire solar system, but it'd be different because instead of a tiny little gun, the power would be sustaining the flight of an entire city, among other things. Hey, maybe there's even some sort of overload failsafe where Atlantis has to "poo" out parts that were overloaded by the use of energy? That could still be easier to replace than a ZPM... especially mid-flight. It might even be that they have to stop every now and then to "cool down" and prevent an overload? It'd be cool if this was similiar to the way hive ships use hyperdrive, it'd be another Ancient/Wraith link.

MarshAngel
February 6th, 2006, 07:59 AM
It's a good theory. I don't know about the power source being subspace. though. Wouldn't that just basically be another ZPM? It's possible the power source could be similar to what the Daedalus normally uses.

As for Mckay, if I remember correctly the problem was the energy was from our universe rather than subspace like a ZPM. (Someone else can correct me and add the details if that's not right)

I think it takes more energy to start it up than it uses once it's operational. So starting it up might be a huge drain on a near empty ZPM that's been in use for several thousand years and fought a war, but it might not be a big struggle for three full brand new ones, as the ancients would have been working with; especially since once it's in the air you'd have no reason to shut it down completely unless you land it and there's no need to do that till you're done with all your work. They'd only have to switch them out every few thousand years, plenty of time to make new ones.

thenimf
February 6th, 2006, 03:08 PM
ZPM's draw power from a pocket universe... not subspace. As far as I know anyway. I dunno, subspace was just a guess. Maybe they get their power from lemon juice? Who knows...


<EDIT>

I correct myself, it's from self contained subspace.

So maybe it's something else. I think lemon juice is a good guess, if you put a multimeter to a lemon you'll get a charge :)

O'Neil
February 6th, 2006, 03:22 PM
How about this theory......


When you crank up your car, the battery provides power to get it started, however, once its started, the alternator takes over and provides power for the electrical systems. If there is no alternator, your battery would be dead in no time.

Perhaps the ZPM provides enough power to start the star drive, and once its started, there are other systems inline with the ZPM's that keeps the power flowing.

Eoin
February 6th, 2006, 04:13 PM
How about this theory......


When you crank up your car, the battery provides power to get it started, however, once its started, the alternator takes over and provides power for the electrical systems. If there is no alternator, your battery would be dead in no time.

Perhaps the ZPM provides enough power to start the star drive, and once its started, there are other systems inline with the ZPM's that keeps the power flowing.
To me that seems very very possible...after all its the anients we're talking about...they must of had some kind of alternator on atlantis

morph166955
February 6th, 2006, 04:43 PM
so heres my theory. we know the sheild can be sustained indefinitely if there are no impacts that it has to repell, so minus some space dust and a few other things the shields only purpose is to keep the air in assuming thats what they wanna do and that they dont seal the air in the city some how, other then that once they are in orbit they could probably drop the shield and do what prometheus and deadalus do and fly with out one through hyperspace. the biggest load that the zpm's are going to face is takeoff/landing. we also know the ancients intergalatic hyperdrives were much more advanced and efficient then anything we/the asgard have so we can also assume that since they were specifically designed to fly that city using the zpm power. Deddy took 4 days to get from earth to atlantis with one zpm powering it. i think its safe to assume atlantis may have taken a weekish to get there. i also think its safe to assume that they arent going to kill all 3 zpm's getting there considering deddy barely used the one they had to get to pegasus. i really think everyone underestimates the power of a zpm. it was able to power the dampening field on one planet for 10000 years, hold the shield on atlantis up for 10000 years against the sea, etc. a journey from earth to pegasus isnt going to kill em, hell i bet it isnt going to even make them blink. i would bet that one zpm if it was completely directed to handling all the systems needed to fly it could handle it.

TheDanielJackson
February 7th, 2006, 09:48 PM
Yes, I realize that this is very similiar to that sub space thing where McKay blew up that entire solar system, but it'd be different because instead of a tiny little gun, the power would be sustaining the flight of an entire city, among other things.


Interesting theory... And in particular about that quote... Maybe another Theory can also be spun off...

Working with the Assumption that the Ancients Used Technology of a similar nature (Before Trinity - Ep 206) - to power the Star Drive:

Maybe the Ancients were trying to create weapon platforms that used the same Energy Souce - that the Star Drive (On Atlantis) used - thus the weapon platform (in Trinity) was an experiment of that idea.

Antlantis' Size could cater/absorb the massive energy output - as opposed to a weapon platform (being used as a blowoff valve). And because Atlantis is constantly moving - The exotic particles (created) could have been dumped into space (the moment they were created). It does sound a bit radical perhaps - because:

1. The Particles were being created from the same Universe that the Energy is being used.
2. The Particle Dump will occur During Space Travel - In Hyperspace. I wonder what sort of Problems can occur with that.

(It did not appear the Ancients knew how to collect and contain those Particles - so discarding them seems possible. Although I would the Ancients having certain Ethical standards which prohibited them from doing such. And of course, These particles were created inside the sheilded Compartment of the Facility - in the 'Reactor'. It does not help in thinking up of - if they actually did use The SG Universe as their power supply...).


That aside, I am a bit clueless as to what actually supplied power to the Star Drive - and from where... I do think (as have many other done - and stated) that the ZPM's may have only initiated the reaction that sourced power - to the Star Drive... And some Other power source may have kept the Star Drive continuously running (For the length of the Trip). Like a car's Alternator, or the Atomic Bomb (where a mini reaction is needed to provide sufficient energy for a cascade effect)

techjunkie
February 7th, 2006, 09:54 PM
Quick side note - look up 'Proton Cascade Decay'.

Hard to find, but an interesting read. Little bit of correctly applied energy creates a massive 'cascade through all matter in a region'. Mind you - everything is anihillated in the process.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_decay


TechJunkie

TheDanielJackson
February 7th, 2006, 09:57 PM
Quick side note - look up 'Proton Cascade Decay'.

Hard to find, but an interesting read. Little bit of correctly applied energy creates a massive 'cascade through all matter in a region'. Mind you - everything is anihillated in the process.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_decay


TechJunkie


Interesting read... I will take a better look a this material once I have more Free time (This Week)

Thanks Man!

Salas1
February 8th, 2006, 03:04 AM
So far everyone here (as far as I know) has theorized that Atlantis would rely solely on the ZPM's to fly. I believe that this is incorrect. Even to the ancients (in Before I Sleep) the ZPM's didn't seem to be easily replaced items. I reckon that 3 ZPM's are kinda like a car battery, they would probably be used as a sort of ignition for the engine to initiate use of the real power source.

My theory is that the real power source is sub space itself. It's inconceivable that the Ancients flew from Milky Way to Pegasus on 3 ZPM's, constantly changing them. I doubt the star drive on Atlantis would be powerful/fast enough to get the city between the two galaxies any faster than a few weeks.

I think the coolest thing would be if the city had rings, sorta like a Stargate, but that were just connected to sub space with no particular destination, then the city would just draw residual energy from that.

Yes, I realize that this is very similiar to that sub space thing where McKay blew up that entire solar system, but it'd be different because instead of a tiny little gun, the power would be sustaining the flight of an entire city, among other things. Hey, maybe there's even some sort of overload failsafe where Atlantis has to "poo" out parts that were overloaded by the use of energy? That could still be easier to replace than a ZPM... especially mid-flight. It might even be that they have to stop every now and then to "cool down" and prevent an overload? It'd be cool if this was similiar to the way hive ships use hyperdrive, it'd be another Ancient/Wraith link.


Think about it, The ZPM's main challenge is to power the inertial dampeners and sub-light engines in order to lift the city away from the planet, once in space, the shield would be on but at minimum power expenditure as it only needs to hold the atmosphere inside the city perimiter. Hyperdrive wouldn't use that much power compared to escaping the gravitational field around the planet. In space, theoretically the city's mass would be zero. So the power expenditure for the Atlantis hyperdrive would be practically the same as the Asgard's hyperdrive, which is powered between galaxies by relatively poor power generators compared to ZPMs.

TheDanielJackson
February 8th, 2006, 03:28 AM
In space, theoretically the city's mass would be zero.


So then,

E = 1/2 m*v^2

Is thrown out the window, no? The city does have a mass, and so it will have to Overcome Intertia - Which leads into why there are Inertial dampeners in the first place. In Space, The City just seems Weightless - the Laws of Gravity (as are understood - at this time) dictate this. But the City still has mass

g (Gravitational Force) = G*M*m/(r^2), M and m being the respective masses of the Planet and the object (respectively) with r as the distance between the centres of both objects.

As r -> infinity, g - > 0.

As simple as the equations may be - they should still hold, right?

Dylan Deltoran
February 8th, 2006, 01:54 PM
I'm gonna keep my theory/opinion simple...ZPM's provide LOTS AND LOTS of energy...they can definentely run the city in flight...however, even though they can power the engines...the engines need some sort of fuel to burn/expel in order to move the ship. All sublight engines (and I'm gonna assume they use the hyperdrive and sublight engines in conjunction when moving in hyperspace) use some sort of fuel propulsion...so...where's the big tanks/engine reactors?

Denanthor
February 8th, 2006, 03:17 PM
Well We know Atlantis is capable of flying from Rising1 and The Tower It has a stardrive.

We know from The Long goodbye That The Tauri have come up with how to turn it on maintain it or even intigrate it with there technology because One of the commands on the control pannel when Weir "febus" is Stardrive Protocole

In Coupdetat McCay says that A Zpm is a Zpm and that 2 is better than 1 and 3 is better than 2. He also says that with more Zpms(Power) they have more options open to them. He also states that they might be able to fire up the engines and get the city to fly. Then he says No. So it could possibly be in fact th ZPMS that draw and use the power