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airdish
July 19th, 2004, 11:40 AM
So now we have stargates in space for ships to use. My question is this- is there a noticeable difference between the front and back of the gate / wormhole so that you don’t fly into the gate the wrong way? If you had time you could activate the gate and watch for whatever side the water comes out—but what if you are in a dog fight and get all turned around after the gate is active?

Indiana
July 19th, 2004, 11:42 AM
Then, you're screwed :D

There will be no Jewels in the chevrons on the back if the gates are anythng like the ones back on earth. And there wont be ant chevron patterns on the back of the gate either.

VirtualCLD
July 19th, 2004, 11:44 AM
Since the jewels light up, it should be easy to tell the difference in space. Of course if teh sun is blinding you, then you might be f$%$#%ed.

aAnubiSs
July 19th, 2004, 11:47 AM
I'm sure someone in Atlantis will do it, I'm sure it's the the scottish Doctor that will go in the wrong way :)

aschen
July 19th, 2004, 11:48 AM
Those are definete possibilites. I wonder though... since these are definetely upgraded gates, perhaps they have the ability to recognize which direction you're coming from and open the worm hole accordingly.

I doubt they'll ever address the issue though.

EYU86
July 19th, 2004, 11:51 AM
There was a thread about this, but, I'll ask it here.
What if you enter the gete upside down? Do you exit upside down?

VirtualCLD
July 19th, 2004, 11:55 AM
And my response is the same as it was in the previous thread about this (can't remember where that thread was). The Ancients, being uber-smart, made the gate so it detects your orientation (with refference to the gravitational pull) when you enter it (this is going under the assumption that gates only work in the presense of a graviational body, how many times have I said that now?) The gate then re-aligns you so you exit with the same orientation you enterred with refference to the graviational pull on the gate when you exit it. That's my theory, it could very well be wrong.

EYU86
July 19th, 2004, 12:09 PM
And my response is the same as it was in the previous thread about this (can't remember where that thread was). The Ancients, being uber-smart, made the gate so it detects your orientation (with refference to the gravitational pull) when you enter it (this is going under the assumption that gates only work in the presense of a graviational body, how many times have I said that now?) The gate then re-aligns you so you exit with the same orientation you enterred with refference to the graviational pull on the gate when you exit it. That's my theory, it could very well be wrong.
But the gate in space has no gravity to base it on.

VirtualCLD
July 19th, 2004, 12:24 PM
Yes it does, it's in orbit. It has to be in the presence of some gravitational body, i.e. planet or sun, to work... well that's what some people say anyway. We've never seen it work on a ship in deep space (which doesn't mean it couldn't). Any on-ship activation was done in orbit or near a planet or sun.

In fact, it's very possible when it is done on ship, the gate could work even in deep space, as long as there is artificial gravity. That way, the gate can still re-align properly to match the orientation with refference to gravity. It could have even done this with the puddlejumper as it appeared to have AG. The gate senses the direction of gravity on the ship and re-aligned teh ship to match the gravity direction on the Atlantis end.

That's just my opinion, not necessaruly the truth. In fact, I could very well be flat out wrong, it's just a theory.

EYU86
July 19th, 2004, 12:25 PM
Oooh, heres a good question, what if you walk through a gate on your hands, does it flip you back on your feet?
That would be cool.

aschen
July 19th, 2004, 12:26 PM
But the gate in space has no gravity to base it on.

Did you learn anything in HS man? =/

Of course it's affected by gravity!! Why do you think asteroid belts, planetary alignment and everything else can form such linear and (normally) stable paths around celestrial bodies???

GRAVITY!!! :eek:

aAnubiSs
July 19th, 2004, 12:26 PM
Why doesn't the Moon just fly away? :P

aschen
July 19th, 2004, 12:27 PM
Yes it does, it's in orbit. It has to be in the presence of some gravitational body, i.e. planet or sun, to work... well that's what some people say anyway. We've never seen it work on a ship in deep space (which doesn't mean it couldn't). Any on-ship activation was done in orbit or near a planet or sun.

>_< I should have read yours first, but object that are light years away from one another are in some way, shape or form affected by another body's gravity.

Mio
July 19th, 2004, 12:27 PM
Actually. If you watch 'Exodos', you'll learn that chevrons don't light from the backside on MilkyWay style gates......

It could be that in Pegasus gates: The side where you see the whole ring lit up with glyphs is the one to fly through.

EYU86
July 19th, 2004, 12:28 PM
Did you learn anything in HS man? =/

Of course it's affected by gravity!! Why do you think asteroid belts, planetary alignment and everything else can form such linear and (normally) stable paths around celestrial bodies???

GRAVITY!!! :eek:
But a ship is flying through it I don't think the gate can determine which side is right side up.

Erik Pasternak
July 19th, 2004, 12:31 PM
But a ship is flying through it I don't think the gate can determine which side is right side up.When you dial the gate, you just have to look and see which chevron lights up first. That'll tell ya which chevron is chevron one, etc.

EYU86
July 19th, 2004, 12:32 PM
When you dial the gate, you just have to look and see which chevron lights up first. That'll tell ya which chevron is chevron one, etc.
In the heat of a dogfight, I don't thik theres time to pay attention to that when you should be watching out for projectiles

Erik Pasternak
July 19th, 2004, 12:35 PM
In the heat of a dogfight, I don't thik theres time to pay attention to that when you should be watching out for projectilesYeah, well, watcha gonna do?

EYU86
July 19th, 2004, 12:37 PM
We know the directors probably didn't take this into account when they made SGA season 1, so I won't even think about it anymore.

aschen
July 19th, 2004, 12:37 PM
But a ship is flying through it I don't think the gate can determine which side is right side up.

Well there are two justifcations in two different subject areas...

The mathematical: A ship flying at the correct coordinates to make a perfect parabola can level itself out to what it perceives to be on roughly a 0 degree angle...or a flat landing...

The science fictional: The gate on Atlantis's side knows the puddle jumper (and others') body well enough to compensate for any uneven positioning AND speedwhen it comes in for a landing.

Erik Pasternak
July 19th, 2004, 12:38 PM
Good idea.

EYU86
July 19th, 2004, 12:41 PM
Well there are two justifcations in two different subject areas...

The mathematical: A ship flying at the correct coordinates to make a perfect parabola can level itself out to what it perceives to be on roughly a 0 degree angle...or a flat landing...

The science fictional: The gate on Atlantis's side knows the puddle jumper (and others') body well enough to compensate for any uneven positioning AND speedwhen it comes in for a landing.
I'm just gonna ignore this and anything after because I don't care anymore.

*Edit*
But my other post got no answer.
What if someone walks through the gate on their hands? Do they get flipped right side up?

VirtualCLD
July 19th, 2004, 12:41 PM
Oohh i wonder what sucke... I mean idio... I mean gul... I mean moro... I mean brave volunteer would like to test the "auto slow down" feature by flying a puddlejumer as fast as they can (first with "nacelles" extended, then with without if they survive the first one) into a stargate that is dialed into Atlantis.

EYU86
July 19th, 2004, 12:44 PM
Oohh i wonder what sucke... I mean idio... I mean gul... I mean moro... I mean brave volunteer would like to test the "auto slow down" feature by flying a puddlejumer as fast as they can (first with "nacelles" extended, then with without if they survive the first one) into a stargate that is dialed into Atlantis.
Yea, that was pretty "brave" considering thats the first time he ever flew it.
But then again, his mind was kinda interfaced with the ship so it may have been an instinct that was placed into his head by the ship.

Ugly Pig
July 19th, 2004, 01:28 PM
What if someone walks through the gate on their hands? Do they get flipped right side up?
No. You always exit the gate the same way you entered it. At least, that's what they've always shown us in the series (the place switching in Prodigy was a goof). The exception being in the beginning when they were hurled out of the puddle all frozen.

EYU86
July 19th, 2004, 01:31 PM
No. You always exit the gate the same way you entered it. At least, that's what they've always shown us in the series (the place switching in Prodigy was a goof). The exception being in the beginning when they were hurled out of the puddle all frozen.
Don't say that, your just gonna spark more arguement.

Teal'c
July 19th, 2004, 01:37 PM
well, you can see through the back of the event horizon (Children of the Gods, Prodigy...) so that would help to tell what side to go through.

And the Puddle Jumper probably spins until its going through the right way up, just so it doesn't crash into the floor of the Gaterium :P

EYU86
July 19th, 2004, 01:43 PM
Gaterium :P
Its the Embarkation Room
Just cuz it sounds neat

Ugly Pig
July 19th, 2004, 01:44 PM
Its the Embarkation Room
Just cuz it sounds neat
'Embarkation Room' doesn't sound neat. Which is why they renamed it to simply 'the Gate Room' on SG-1. :)

Anthro Girl
July 19th, 2004, 02:35 PM
In this episode, Samantha Carter travels with Cadet Hailey to a moon M4C-862. When the arrive on the moon, suddenly Carter and Hailey have switched positions (Carter is now to her right as where she was originally to her left). Perhaps this was an oversight, or it could be an effect of the stargate when travelling to certian destinations. So, if you can be transposed from Left to Right then you can certianlly be transposed upside down!
If you listen to the director's commentary on Prodigy (which you should if only for the theme song lyrics :D ) you'll hear PDL admitting that he screwed up on that.

ylai
July 19th, 2004, 02:51 PM
So now we have stargates in space for ships to use.

It is a good thing, by the way, that they do not have rotating stargates anymore now. Otherwise you should see both the inner and outer ring rotating, because of angular momentum conservation.

uknesvuinng
July 19th, 2004, 03:04 PM
Its the Embarkation Room
Just cuz it sounds neat
It's official. You're not allowed to name anything, ever. :P


Why doesn't the Moon just fly away? :P
Magnets! (Sorry, just a silly excuse to quote some SG-1)

EYU86
July 19th, 2004, 03:06 PM
I loved it when that guide was explaining it in the episode 2010.
Now lets head over to the embarkation room where the SG teams would "embark" to their destination

aschen
July 19th, 2004, 03:35 PM
Oohh i wonder what sucke... I mean idio... I mean gul... I mean moro... I mean brave volunteer would like to test the "auto slow down" feature by flying a puddlejumer as fast as they can (first with "nacelles" extended, then with without if they survive the first one) into a stargate that is dialed into Atlantis.

It was just an idea. :P

Apparently it worked pretty well because Sheppard didn't crash up and die, now did he? :D

Rukkian
July 19th, 2004, 03:44 PM
Speaking of the gate in space, I understand how they were able to gate to it (the wormhole gets it power from the starting gate), but how did the gate in space connect back to Atlantis without an external power source? The gate itself did not look different from what I saw.

EYU86
July 19th, 2004, 03:47 PM
Maybe thats what version 2.0 gates have, built in power source.

Ugly Pig
July 19th, 2004, 03:48 PM
Speaking of the gate in space, I understand how they were able to gate to it (the wormhole gets it power from the starting gate), but how did the gate in space connect back to Atlantis without an external power source? The gate itself did not look different from what I saw.
Maybe it gets fed energy from somewhere on the planet somehow?

Rukkian
July 19th, 2004, 03:50 PM
I guess I will write it off as the Wraith modified it, however if all the new gates powered themselves, then using the Atlantis gate should not have drained from the city.

EYU86
July 19th, 2004, 03:54 PM
Maybe it didn't it was never said that the gate drained power.

aschen
July 19th, 2004, 03:56 PM
It is a good thing, by the way, that they do not have rotating stargates anymore now. Otherwise you should see both the inner and outer ring rotating, because of angular momentum conservation.

good point. :cool:

aschen
July 19th, 2004, 03:59 PM
Why doesn't the Moon just fly away? :P

I hope you're kidding. :p
It wouldn't "fly" away, either. It would need a force that is exerting a greater pull than that which it was previously pulled towards... And in such a case, whatever the moon was rotoating along would more likely the not be pulled a long as well! :eek:

aAnubiSs
July 19th, 2004, 04:00 PM
I hope you're kidding. :p
It wouldn't "fly" away, either. It would need a force that is exerting a greater pull than that which it was previously pulled towards... And in such a case, whatever the moon was rotoating along would more likely the not be pulled a long as well! :eek:


Yes I was ridding. I've read my fair share of Physics

Yu Huang Shang Ti
July 19th, 2004, 04:20 PM
Didn't anyone else noticed those glowing objects attached to the orbital gate? They're either thrusters to keep the gate relatively stationary or power units to keep it active -- probably both.

And Carter stated several times in the series that an object exits a gate the same way it goes in, so it seems doubtful that gates have complicated orientation systems. In fact, when she divebombed through the horizontal gate in 2001, these theoretical orientation systems should've slowed her down and/or changed her angle of exit to soemthing other than "flat on her ass with a concussion." Rather painfully, the theory was proven false.

diskiller
July 19th, 2004, 04:21 PM
Maybe it gets fed energy from somewhere on the planet somehow?

The gate in space is different. Rewatch, and watch those scenes carefully. (I've watched it 3 times now, so maybe thats why i noticed i guess). The gate in space is always lit; all 9 chevrons are always lit, even when the gate is not activated. There was alot of debate in another thread about this (why are 9 chevrons lit when only dialing a 7 digit address?! post production error was thought to be the cause... SG-1 has always been very consistant that only 7 chevrons out of 9 light up...) however it appears that the space gate's in pegasus have all 9 chevrons always lit. Most likely to make the gate more easily visible, and also to make it more easily visible which side of the gate is the correct side to fly into (else you have no idea which way to approach the gate until you dial and see it open..)

So how is the gate powered (so it can dial out) and so that all its chevrons are constantly lit like a beacon? Well, if you look closely, you can see 3 little "thingies" attached to the gate, and they seem to glow slightly orange/red. I figure they are 1) the power source, and 2) the propulsion system which keeps the gate correctly orientated and in orbit so it does not just "float about" and spin around randomly and even deorbit .....

If you watch very closely at the scene when the puddle jumper flies in followed by the 3 wraith ships, you have a good close up of the spcae gate (with those things attached) and it suddenly switches scenes to the atlantis gate with the puddle jumper coming out, and you can see the atlantis does not have those things attached. (I also don't recall seeing them on the planetside atlantis gate). Therefore, it is something extra on the space gate, and most liekly the power and propulsion system as it does not have a DHD to power the gate.

For the record, i don't think the mini-dhd on the puddle jumper (or handheld dhd's) can power the gate. The planetside dhd lit up when the wraith flew out, suggesting the mini-dhd told the actual dhd to power the gate and which address to dial.

Thats my take, and it all seems to make sense. Of course, we will most likely find out in future episodes.

EYU86
July 19th, 2004, 04:25 PM
The gate in space is different. Rewatch, and watch those scenes carefully. (I've watched it 3 times now, so maybe thats why i noticed i guess). The gate in space is always lit; all 9 chevrons are always lit, even when the gate is not activated. There was alot of debate in another thread about this (why are 9 chevrons lit when only dialing a 7 digit address?! post production error was thought to be the cause... SG-1 has always been very consistant that only 7 chevrons out of 9 light up...) however it appears that the space gate's in pegasus have all 9 chevrons always lit. Most likely to make the gate more easily visible, and also to make it more easily visible which side of the gate is the correct side to fly into (else you have no idea which way to approach the gate until you dial and see it open..)

So how is the gate powered (so it can dial out) and so that all its chevrons are constantly lit like a beacon? Well, if you look closely, you can see 3 little "thingies" attached to the gate, and they seem to glow slightly orange/red. I figure they are 1) the power source, and 2) the propulsion system which keeps the gate correctly orientated and in orbit so it does not just "float about" and spin around randomly and even deorbit .....

If you watch very closely at the scene when the puddle jumper flies in followed by the 3 wraith ships, you have a good close up of the spcae gate (with those things attached) and it suddenly switches scenes to the atlantis gate with the puddle jumper coming out, and you can see the atlantis does not have those things attached. (I also don't recall seeing them on the planetside atlantis gate). Therefore, it is something extra on the space gate, and most liekly the power and propulsion system as it does not have a DHD to power the gate.

For the record, i don't think the mini-dhd on the puddle jumper (or handheld dhd's) can power the gate. The planetside dhd lit up when the wraith flew out, suggesting the mini-dhd told the actual dhd to power the gate and which address to dial.

Thats my take, and it all seems to make sense. Of course, we will most likely find out in future episodes.
Wow, very nice
So there probably has to be a DHD still hooked up to the space gate just wirelessly and transmitting pretty far. I guess the Wraith are more advanced than I thought.

Yu Huang Shang Ti
July 19th, 2004, 04:31 PM
Not necessarily: the remote DHDs can still transmit directly to the gate, assuming that the main DHD will reflect the gate's activity even if it's not the direct cause of it.

EYU86
July 19th, 2004, 04:33 PM
Not necessarily: the remote DHDs can still transmit directly to the gate, assuming that the main DHD will reflect the gate's activity even if it's not the direct cause of it.
Hmm... you put up a good argument too.
I dunno, I'll just have to wait and see.

diskiller
July 19th, 2004, 04:34 PM
Didn't anyone else noticed those glowing objects attached to the orbital gate? They're either thrusters to keep the gate relatively stationary or power units to keep it active -- probably both.

And Carter stated several times in the series that an object exits a gate the same way it goes in, so it seems doubtful that gates have complicated orientation systems. In fact, when she divebombed through the horizontal gate in 2001, these theoretical orientation systems should've slowed her down and/or changed her angle of exit to soemthing other than "flat on her ass with a concussion." Rather painfully, the theory was proven false.

Yes, I think you've got it right with those red glowing object things attached to the gate. (I've mentioned it before, and I just mentioned it here again althought you beat me to it this time...)

I think you are definitely right about objects exiting the gate the same way they enter. Whilist its true that the Version 2.0 gates in pegasus might be somewhat more advanced than the Version 1.0 gates in the milkyway, I doubt it. The atlantis gate was quite happy to let enemy fire through (and didn't slow that down) so why should it reorientate objects, ships, etc.

The puddle jumper is probably somewhat automated and intelligent... it can work out the correct orientation to go into the gate so it comes out correctly on the other side, and it probably automatically applies the brakes when it enters Atlantis. Whether totally automatic (it knows its the Atlantis Address, or it somehow automatically detected it arrived in the Atlantis gate room, or Sheppard told it via his mind) it regardless hit the brakes and slowed to a stop as soon as it emerged at the other side of the Atlantis gate.

The puddle jumper appears to automatically spread out opening its wings (for lack of a better name) while flying but seems to automatically bring them in before entering the gate.

diskiller
July 19th, 2004, 04:39 PM
Hmm... you put up a good argument too.
I dunno, I'll just have to wait and see.

I think, the mini-dhd in the puddle jumper (and other handheld portable dhd's seen throught sg-1) can tell the gate to dial whatever address it wants, HOWEVER, the gate still needs to be powered. I figure the DHD powers the gate (and on earth when those remotes were used the gate was already powered - remember it always has enough residual power to at least dial once) so that when the gate is powered the dhd remote just tells the gate to "open, address abcxyz" and it does.

The spacegate is probably powered by those red glowing objects that have been mentioned. Did the wraith put them there? Maybe. Or maybe, the Ancients did. Maybe, spacegates are different. They come standard with the red glowing thingies that are the powersource (instead of a real DHD that is powersource and dialer), and a propulsion system so the gate remains in orbit. The gate constnatly powered, just needs to be dialed by a remote. Voiala.

I think its highly likely the Version 2.0 gates come in ground and space form, and the ancients have placed them in orbit around alot of planets.

EYU86
July 19th, 2004, 04:41 PM
I think, the mini-dhd in the puddle jumper (and other handheld portable dhd's seen throught sg-1) can tell the gate to dial whatever address it wants, HOWEVER, the gate still needs to be powered. I figure the DHD powers the gate (and on earth when those remotes were used the gate was already powered - remember it always has enough residual power to at least dial once) so that when the gate is powered the dhd remote just tells the gate to "open, address abcxyz" and it does.

The spacegate is probably powered by those red glowing objects that have been mentioned. Did the wraith put them there? Maybe. Or maybe, the Ancients did. Maybe, spacegates are different. They come standard with the red glowing thingies that are the powersource (instead of a real DHD that is powersource and dialer), and a propulsion system so the gate remains in orbit. The gate constnatly powered, just needs to be dialed by a remote. Voiala.

I think its highly likely the Version 2.0 gates come in ground and space form, and the ancients have placed them in orbit around alot of planets.
Who knows, but you have alot of great theories over there.
But like I said, we'll just have to see how it actually pans out.

Yu Huang Shang Ti
July 19th, 2004, 04:47 PM
Oh, something else... A few times in SG-1, some technicians would be performing tests on the gate or repairing the power transfer conduits (the four big red things that clamp to the gate) and the chevrons would glow even though no wormhole was being engaged. If we can do it with our jerry-rigged computers, it seems trivial for whoever first set the Pegasus gates in orbit to perform the same override, in order to use the gate's own chevrons as running lights.

diskiller
July 19th, 2004, 05:00 PM
Oh, something else... A few times in SG-1, some technicians would be performing tests on the gate or repairing the power transfer conduits (the four big red things that clamp to the gate) and the chevrons would glow even though no wormhole was being engaged. If we can do it with our jerry-rigged computers, it seems trivial for whoever first set the Pegasus gates in orbit to perform the same override, in order to use the gate's own chevrons as running lights.

Yeah. Sounds good to me. So after all that arguing about 9 chevrons (do they always light up? was it a post production error? etc) it looks the gate chevrons are being used as running lights to make it easier to see in space and determine which is the front and which is the back of the gate... quite simple in the end.

I guess we'll know for sure when we see more spacegates in pegasus, and whether they are always lit and whether they have those glowing devices attached.

diskiller
July 19th, 2004, 05:19 PM
It is a good thing, by the way, that they do not have rotating stargates anymore now. Otherwise you should see both the inner and outer ring rotating, because of angular momentum conservation.

*grin* good point. ;)

However, the Version 1.0 gates only rotated when you performed a manual dial. The DHD's "quickl dial" powering the gate, giving the coordinates to open to, and instructing it to open immediately. No rotating.

The earth dial turns, because we have no DHD. We cannot quickdial the gate. We have a jerryrigged system where we power the gate, and perform an "automated" manual dial every time. Instead of having a few guys stand out there and manually turn it, its automated by motors, etc (assumbingly behind the gate so we cannot see them) but it is still a manual dial for all intents and purposes.

EYU86
July 19th, 2004, 05:27 PM
Ooo, almost missed that. I read right through it cuz I guess we're all so used to seeing a spinning gate. Nice catch.

the adventurer
July 19th, 2004, 05:55 PM
You know, They should destroy the Wraith Space Gate. Best not make things easy for them.

DownFallAngel
July 19th, 2004, 05:57 PM
Stargates can survive the event horizons of black holes and explosions in a sun.....how do we destroy the gate!? Maybe destroy a chevron? Cause it not to lock?

EYU86
July 19th, 2004, 06:00 PM
Stargates can survive the event horizons of black holes and explosions in a sun.....how do we destroy the gate!? Maybe destroy a chevron? Cause it not to lock?
Gates can't withstand a sun blowing up. The gate couldn't even stand an Al'kesh crashing into it (48 Hours).

DownFallAngel
July 19th, 2004, 06:05 PM
We don't know if that gate is still working. All we know is that if an ipen wormhole is hit with enough kinetic energy, it causes an immediate shutdown.

Also, I think that gate in Exodus is still out there, and still working. Its just not at a planet, so we can't connect to it.

Lugal
July 19th, 2004, 06:11 PM
Didn't anyone else noticed those glowing objects attached to the orbital gate? They're either thrusters to keep the gate relatively stationary or power units to keep it active -- probably both.


Yeah, I noticed that too. I also thought it was to keep it oriented so a ship could fly right into it from/out of it into orbit as well, rather than have it tumbling around out in space.

Yu Huang Shang Ti
July 19th, 2004, 07:08 PM
Yeah. Sounds good to me. So after all that arguing about 9 chevrons (do they always light up? was it a post production error? etc) it looks the gate chevrons are being used as running lights to make it easier to see in space and determine which is the front and which is the back of the gate... quite simple in the end.

I guess we'll know for sure when we see more spacegates in pegasus, and whether they are always lit and whether they have those glowing devices attached.

Yeah, it's impossible to know for sure until canon evidence appears on-screen or from producer comments, but we can at least pare down the possibilities with some simple logic. Occam's Razor strikes again!


The earth dial turns, because we have no DHD. We cannot quickdial the gate. We have a jerryrigged system where we power the gate, and perform an "automated" manual dial every time. Instead of having a few guys stand out there and manually turn it, its automated by motors, etc (assumbingly behind the gate so we cannot see them) but it is still a manual dial for all intents and purposes.

Actually we've seen the back of the Earth gate before, and there's no motors back there spinning it. What I believe is happening is this: our patchwork computer program is telling the gate to spin the ring and then stop, and when the gate has enough power to lock a chevron (which is always, at the SGC), it'll automatically do so. We know it will because that's how manual dialing the hard way works, and the gate has to have an internal spinning mechanism for the ring.

Say someone uncovers a gate and tries to spin the ring before recovering their DHD, and then left it at a symbol besides the origin. If it didn't have a ring motor, then it wouldn't be able to reset the ring to the origin when someone tries to use the DHD.

uknesvuinng
July 19th, 2004, 07:37 PM
Gates can't withstand a sun blowing up. The gate couldn't even stand an Al'kesh crashing into it (48 Hours).
The gate should be fine after the Al'kesh. Gates have survived meteor strikes ("100 Days"), an Al'kesh shouldn't mess it up. The DHD is what got messed up in "48 Hours". Now, wether the DHD was destroyed or just got disconnected, we don't know, since we never went back to find out. If we could find another wormhole time-extender (device used by Anubis in "Redemption"), we could use it on the Wraith gate and overload it. Blow up their gate and probably screw up something of their planet too (stargates make a pretty big explosion IIRC).

Erik Pasternak
July 19th, 2004, 07:39 PM
The gate should be fine after the Al'kesh. Gates have survived meteor strikes ("100 Days"), an Al'kesh shouldn't mess it up. The DHD is what got messed up in "48 Hours". Now, wether the DHD was destroyed or just got disconnected, we don't know, since we never went back to find out. If we could find another wormhole time-extender (device used by Anubis in "Redemption"), we could use it on the Wraith gate and overload it. Blow up their gate and probably screw up something of their planet too (stargates make a pretty big explosion IIRC).Maybe the Atlantis database contains information on how to build one. :)

EYU86
July 19th, 2004, 07:40 PM
I have been proven wrong, multiple times for that post I mght add. Thanks for repeating it to me, over and over and over. :p

Thor's Pal
August 3rd, 2004, 07:40 PM
Yeah, it's impossible to know for sure until canon evidence appears on-screen or from producer comments, but we can at least pare down the possibilities with some simple logic. Occam's Razor strikes again!



Actually we've seen the back of the Earth gate before, and there's no motors back there spinning it. What I believe is happening is this: our patchwork computer program is telling the gate to spin the ring and then stop, and when the gate has enough power to lock a chevron (which is always, at the SGC), it'll automatically do so. We know it will because that's how manual dialing the hard way works, and the gate has to have an internal spinning mechanism for the ring.

Say someone uncovers a gate and tries to spin the ring before recovering their DHD, and then left it at a symbol besides the origin. If it didn't have a ring motor, then it wouldn't be able to reset the ring to the origin when someone tries to use the DHD.

Remember, we've also seen it demonstrated that it will take some energy to losen the mechisism that will alow free spining see: Prisoners

Ancient 1
August 5th, 2004, 01:22 AM
I know why the moon doesn't fly away, but along those same lines, why does the gate not eventually come crashing down on the planet? :eek: I don't recall seeing anything like booster rockets in order to adjust its orbit.

veneticuss
August 5th, 2004, 02:54 AM
There was a thread about this, but, I'll ask it here.
What if you enter the gete upside down? Do you exit upside down?

Well, havent they said that the ship does go through automaticly in 38min?

aAnubiSs
August 5th, 2004, 02:55 AM
You exit the way you went in. Atleast I haven't seen any proof that says otherwise... Unless one counts Carter and Hailey in Prodigy.

yaaayoubetcha
August 5th, 2004, 05:41 AM
i may be wrong, but i think the most technical explanation they ever gave on the show is that it takes you appart and then reassembles you on the same trajectory and with the same velocity.....

we see them leaping through the gate all the time and then leaping out the other side and rolling down the ramp....not just being placed on their feet and walking away.....

VirtualCLD
August 5th, 2004, 05:55 AM
But that still doesn't explain orientation. If some one leaps into the stargate and their facing up, with their back to the ground, how would they come out on the other side? What if I rotated the gate on the other side by 180 degrees (or Pi radians for you die-hard mathematicians)? How can I tell which is "up" and "down" on the stargate?

CyberKnight
August 5th, 2004, 09:36 AM
Maybe thats what version 2.0 gates have, built in power source.
What happened to the Antartic gate?? I thought Carter said that went dead shortly because the power source on the gate died.
I know why the moon doesn't fly away, but along those same lines, why does the gate not eventually come crashing down on the planet? I don't recall seeing anything like booster rockets in order to adjust its orbit.
It's got to be in a pretty high orbit. I know McKay said that ROV was in orbit once they sent it through the gate.

VirtualCLD
August 5th, 2004, 09:42 AM
What happened to the Antartic gate?? I thought Carter said that went dead shortly because the power source on the gate died.

The power source on the DHD died. Not the gate itself.



It's got to be in a pretty high orbit. I know McKay said that ROV was in orbit once they sent it through the gate.

I know, CK, you were responding to someone else, but in response to both of you, this has been discussed before. If you look carefully at a screenshot of the gate, there are three modules attached to it. They probably maintain orbit/stability and possibly power. As CK said, it was in high orbit, normal gravity and acceleration will keep it there for years. We have many of dead/non-functioning satellites in orbit of Earth which won't be coming down for a long time. I believe the figure is something like only 15% or less or man-made satellites that are orbitting Earth at this moment are still functional and in use.

aschen
August 5th, 2004, 09:44 AM
An object in orbit takes a long long time to come back down.

Ancient 1
August 5th, 2004, 01:24 PM
An object in orbit takes a long long time to come back down.

I didn't notice the modules referred to in the other reply, but I can accept that. Also perhaps the wraiith monitor and control its orbit even in their hibernation periods some are still awake.Onthe other hand if neither is true, hasn't this gate already been in orbit for many possibly even millions of years?

Zorkon
August 5th, 2004, 01:49 PM
An object in orbit takes a long long time to come back down.

Or not, depending on the orbit. :)

If it's a stable, high-altitude orbit that is well out of reach of the atmosphere, then yes - stuff up there tends to happily float about until it is disturbed.

On the other hand, if you've got something in low orbit that is interacting with the planet's atmosphere then it can come down much quicker than you might think. Now when I say atmosphere, I'm not talking the stuff we breathe. I'm talking about very, very small amounts of gas.

Here's an interesting physics tidbit: The friction between an object in orbit and the planet's atmosphere can actually *speed up* the object in orbit. Strange, but true. It's actually an indirect relationship. As an object orbits a planet and interacts with its atmosphere, the drag from the atmosphere causes the object to drop into a lower orbit (slows it down). However, objects in lower orbits must orbit *faster* than objects in higher orbits - so the orbital velocity of the object increases.

Of course, if you're in a lower orbit and your velocity increases, you interact with the atmosphere more, which causes more drag. More drag means you drop into a lower orbit, your velocity increases, and it starts all over again. :)

This is why the International Space Station needs the shuttle to pop by every now and then and give it a boost back into a higher orbit. The ISS orbits in a low enough altitude that it experiences some drag due to the Earth's atmosphere.

Dr. McKay stated that the gate was in "high orbit", which we can probably take to mean that it's nowhere near close to the planet. So it's likely in a nice stable orbit. Plus the orbital gate has those nifty pod attachments (likely thrusters of sorts) to keep it in place.

Gorthaur
August 5th, 2004, 04:48 PM
Was it ever stated that you couldn't go through the back of a gate?

Ancient 1
August 6th, 2004, 06:06 AM
well, you can see through the back of the event horizon (Children of the Gods, Prodigy...) so that would help to tell what side to go through.

And the Puddle Jumper probably spins until its going through the right way up, just so it doesn't crash into the floor of the Gaterium :P
You can?

It does?

aschen
August 6th, 2004, 06:12 AM
O_o No, I'm pretty sure you can't... Considering there's A WORMHOLE coming through that side.

Ugly Pig
August 6th, 2004, 01:14 PM
Yes, the backside of the event horizon is partially transparant. We've seen this many times.

uknesvuinng
August 6th, 2004, 01:23 PM
O_o No, I'm pretty sure you can't... Considering there's A WORMHOLE coming through that side.
If your speaking of seeing throught the back of the gate, you can. Several episodes show that the event horizon is translucent from behind.

If I were to theorize, I'd say what we see as an event horizon is a combination of the visible light radiated by the event horizon and the visible light radiated by a sort of energy field that holds the wormhole stable. The EH is a part of the wormhole, not a distinct object. A wormhole is like a cylinder with only the circlular ends existing in normal space, and so they are the only parts that intersect normal space. The EH wouldn't "exist" from the perspective of the "wrong" direction as that "side" of the wormhole is in subspace. So all you see from behind in the energy field that stablizes the wormhole. What would happen if you entered the wrong side would depend on what the energy field would do to you, if anything.

Cygnus
August 6th, 2004, 02:32 PM
Those are definete possibilites. I wonder though... since these are definetely upgraded gates, perhaps they have the ability to recognize which direction you're coming from and open the worm hole accordingly.

I doubt they'll ever address the issue though.

Ahhhh, don't you just love these sci-fi forums? It's interesting how we sit here and speculate about how something like a Stargate (a fictional device) works, and why it behaves the way it does... when the true answers to our questions are NON-EXISTANT! (at least, that is, until the writers of the show decide to address the issue in an episode, in which case they make something up).

Of course I mean no offense at all, I find myself speculating about these kinds of things all the time. I think it's interesting the way we try to figure out the answers to questions that, in fact, may have no answer!

It's like speculating on what the bathroom in the SGC must look like. The writers never needed to create a bathroom for a scene in an episode, so therefore the SGC has no bathroom!

:) :) ;)

Ugly Pig
August 6th, 2004, 03:53 PM
The writers never needed to create a bathroom for a scene in an episode, so therefore the SGC has no bathroom!
Ah, but the bathroom has been referenced on the show! We just haven't seen it. Commence speculation!! :p

SensesFail062
August 6th, 2004, 04:21 PM
for everyones questions about orbit... say you place the gate out of the orbit of the planet...but near it...but leave it perfectly still...if nothing touches it...then it would stay their...correct?

Zorkon
August 6th, 2004, 05:30 PM
for everyones questions about orbit... say you place the gate out of the orbit of the planet...but near it...but leave it perfectly still...if nothing touches it...then it would stay their...correct?

No. For several reasons:

1) Because nothing is perfectly "still" in space. Everything is in motion in relation to everything else.

2) The gravitational field of any object reaches to infinity - it's strength drops the farther away you are from the object, but it is never zero. At this very second, your body is experiencing a gravitational pull due to the stars in the Andromeda galaxy, although it's a very, very, very, very, very weak pull.

Now, as others have mentioned you could put the gate at a Lagrange point - these are locations in space where the gravitational forces of two bodies essentially balance each other. An object placed at a Lagrange point tends to stay in the vicinity of the point unless otherwise disturbed.

aschen
August 7th, 2004, 12:41 PM
Ahhhh, don't you just love these sci-fi forums? It's interesting how we sit here and speculate about how something like a Stargate (a fictional device) works, and why it behaves the way it does... when the true answers to our questions are NON-EXISTANT! (at least, that is, until the writers of the show decide to address the issue in an episode, in which case they make something up).

Of course I mean no offense at all, I find myself speculating about these kinds of things all the time. I think it's interesting the way we try to figure out the answers to questions that, in fact, may have no answer!

It's like speculating on what the bathroom in the SGC must look like. The writers never needed to create a bathroom for a scene in an episode, so therefore the SGC has no bathroom!

:) :) ;)
Speculation is great...but when people start defending their speculations, well then it gets a bit out of hand.

Hohenzollern
August 7th, 2004, 07:02 PM
Regarding the power modules on the orbiting v2.0 gates; could they be ZPMs? Might be worth it for the team to check out. Assuming they brought vacuum suits with them, or find the Atlantean equivelent. There would be some danger, to fiddle about with that much "live" power, of course.


It's like speculating on what the bathroom in the SGC must look like. The writers never needed to create a bathroom for a scene in an episode, so therefore the SGC has no bathroom!

While we have not seen the toilets/water closets/restrooms, we have seen the 'bath'rooms/shower/wet areas. In season one episode "Hathor", the Hathor character is seen "giving birth" to larval goa'ould in the whirlpool (looks like the rehabilative ones in hospitals and spas vs a recreational "hot tub"). There are shower areas in the background.

Also in the locker rooms, wet areas are seen, I seem to remember Te'alc being troubled by something and having to seek advice from Major Carter and entering the women's changing area. The shower was seen in the back.
This was probably in sea Six's "Changeling" -- not sure on the particular episode though.

I have hoped the Asgard have some evolved method of the bidet, or sanitary paper; walking around butt naked as they do. ;-D

Ancient 1
August 7th, 2004, 11:45 PM
Or not, depending on the orbit. :)

If it's a stable, high-altitude orbit that is well out of reach of the atmosphere, then yes - stuff up there tends to happily float about until it is disturbed.

On the other hand, if you've got something in low orbit that is interacting with the planet's atmosphere then it can come down much quicker than you might think. Now when I say atmosphere, I'm not talking the stuff we breathe. I'm talking about very, very small amounts of gas.

Here's an interesting physics tidbit: The friction between an object in orbit and the planet's atmosphere can actually *speed up* the object in orbit. Strange, but true. It's actually an indirect relationship. As an object orbits a planet and interacts with its atmosphere, the drag from the atmosphere causes the object to drop into a lower orbit (slows it down). However, objects in lower orbits must orbit *faster* than objects in higher orbits - so the orbital velocity of the object increases.

Of course, if you're in a lower orbit and your velocity increases, you interact with the atmosphere more, which causes more drag. More drag means you drop into a lower orbit, your velocity increases, and it starts all over again. :)

This is why the International Space Station needs the shuttle to pop by every now and then and give it a boost back into a higher orbit. The ISS orbits in a low enough altitude that it experiences some drag due to the Earth's atmosphere.

Dr. McKay stated that the gate was in "high orbit", which we can probably take to mean that it's nowhere near close to the planet. So it's likely in a nice stable orbit. Plus the orbital gate has those nifty pod attachments (likely thrusters of sorts) to keep it in place.
Is that you Carter?

starz_infinity
September 3rd, 2004, 06:07 AM
Hi all, I'm a new poster. I'm somewhat bothered about a very basic query about the stargate, so help me here! The stargate, launches this whole huge wave of the event horizon before it gets sucked back into the gate rite? So what or why does this happen? In the episode 'Allegience', the bodies of dead Jaffa warriors were place in range of it, and the wave 'sucks' them away. So where would their bodies be?

Simpsons did it!
September 14th, 2004, 11:17 PM
Since the jewels light up, it should be easy to tell the difference in space. Of course if teh sun is blinding you, then you might be f$%$#%ed.ROFL!

GateGipsy
September 15th, 2004, 04:53 AM
Hi all, I'm a new poster. I'm somewhat bothered about a very basic query about the stargate, so help me here! The stargate, launches this whole huge wave of the event horizon before it gets sucked back into the gate rite? So what or why does this happen? In the episode 'Allegience', the bodies of dead Jaffa warriors were place in range of it, and the wave 'sucks' them away. So where would their bodies be?
It doesn't actually 'suck' anything in. The wooosh bit when the even horizon first forms vapourizes anything in its path, unless it is made of extremely tough material, like the iris.

AsgardCarnage
September 15th, 2004, 05:40 AM
The stargate, launches this whole huge wave of the event horizon before it gets sucked back into the gate rite? So what or why does this happen? In the episode 'Allegience', the bodies of dead Jaffa warriors were place in range of it, and the wave 'sucks' them away. So where would their bodies be?

its unstable energy that is discharged from the gate when it gets a lock. so anything in the way is destroyed or vapirized, if u look at other ep's they always jump out of the way or have even used it ("100 days") to make a cavern in the rock.


as for the space gate topic. i always though of the hand held/mini DHD's as more of a remote to the main DHD. the gate dosn't know how to connect to another gate it just points its worm hole goodness where the DHD says to go. so my guess is the space gates thrusters provide power and a remote sensor for mini dhd's like the one in the puddle jumper.

KayMan2k
September 15th, 2004, 05:49 AM
Regarding the power modules on the orbiting v2.0 gates; could they be ZPMs? Might be worth it for the team to check out. Assuming they brought vacuum suits with them, or find the Atlantean equivelent. There would be some danger, to fiddle about with that much "live" power, of course.


It is my understanding it is the DHD's responsiblity to provide power to the gate. Therefore, using a gate in space, it is the repsonsbility of the ship to provide power to the gate (for its initial dialing sequence). The puddle jumpers probably do this and have the same functionality as a DHD. The Wraith also probably know this since they have similar level of technology and most likely understand how the gates work on a very deep level. But maybe, just speculation here.

The gates may also absorb power from solar sources or solar wind. But I think it unlikely that will generate enough power for a connection.

aschen
September 15th, 2004, 07:51 AM
The gates may also absorb power from solar sources or solar wind. But I think it unlikely that will generate enough power for a connection.
My friend, I think you underestimate the power of solar wind and radiation.

auir999
September 23rd, 2004, 02:58 PM
the crystals (chevrons) are only visible on tha front of the gate. And when activated they all light up so that you know where your going.

Xerxus
September 23rd, 2004, 03:11 PM
The Puddlejumpers automatically enter the gate, right?

Maybe the ship detects which way the gate is facing before entering?

Mio
September 23rd, 2004, 03:29 PM
The Puddlejumpers automatically enter the gate, right?

Maybe the ship detects which way the gate is facing before entering?

Once you are close enough to a gate, Autopilot takes over, yes.

Mio
September 23rd, 2004, 03:30 PM
My friend, I think you underestimate the power of solar wind and radiation.

Yes. Out in space, that's a lot of stray energy.