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View Full Version : The Wraith/Atavus from Earth Final Conflict



KreeApophis
July 19th, 2004, 09:53 AM
I was gonna post this a while ago but I'm just now getting a screen name. The first time I learnt about the Wraith being the new "enemy" I immediately thought in my opinion, that the Wraith idea was borrowed from the "Atavus", the dominant enemy species from "Earth: Final Conflict". Here's a brief picture of who the Atavus are according to an EFC website:


"The Atavus are sentient parasites. They feed off Human life force, or Chi, which allows them to sustain immortality.

The Atavus are pathologically carnivorous, hedonistic, exotic, and erotic. They have human form but are more quick, agile, intelligent, and unstoppable. They feed with a "cleave" -- blade-like extensions from their fingers that illuminate and penetrate the skin of a Human, draining it of its Chi

hmmm, sounds like the Wraith to me, and I know the Atavus have been there way before the thoughts of starting up SG Atlantis. I'm curious about other opinions about this though.

aAnubiSs
July 19th, 2004, 09:55 AM
From the description they sound atleast siblings =)

but Wraith erotic.... dunno about that one.

aschen
July 19th, 2004, 09:58 AM
"The Atavus are sentient parasites. They feed off Human life force, or Chi, which allows them to sustain immortality.

The Atavus are pathologically carnivorous, hedonistic, exotic, and erotic. They have human form but are more quick, agile, intelligent, and unstoppable. They feed with a "cleave" -- blade-like extensions from their fingers that illuminate and penetrate the skin of a Human, draining it of its Chi

They sound more like Goa'ulds than Wraith to me. Although we don't know them too well yet, they're too damn scary looking to be hedonistic. :eek:

KreeApophis
July 19th, 2004, 09:59 AM
From the description they sound atleast siblings =)

but Wraith erotic.... dunno about that one.

...what I'm trying to say is that they "borrowed" the Atavus idea and used it to make the Wraith. Apparently they took out some characteristics of the Atavus such as their erotic behaviour, but still the Wraith and Atavus are awfully similar.

Ugly Pig
July 19th, 2004, 10:01 AM
...what I'm trying to say is that they "borrowed" the Atavus idea and used it to make the Wraith.
Or they based the Wraith on the idea of vampires. This seems to be a more popular story...

KreeApophis
July 19th, 2004, 10:02 AM
They sound more like Goa'ulds than Wraith to me. Although we don't know them too well yet, they're too damn scary looking to be hedonistic. :eek:


why do they sound like Goa'ulds. The Atavus are humanoid, the Goa'uld are snake-like creatures.

Persephone
July 19th, 2004, 11:33 AM
I think the idea was that they sounded more like Goa'uld because of their lifestyle rather than their physiology

As for me, while I would certainly say there are similarities between the Wraith and these Atavus, I don't think it's anything conclusive. Thus far, the Wraith motivation seems pretty straightforward: Eat people. Really eat them, not just their life force.

KreeApophis
July 19th, 2004, 01:38 PM
I think the idea was that they sounded more like Goa'uld because of their lifestyle rather than their physiology

As for me, while I would certainly say there are similarities between the Wraith and these Atavus, I don't think it's anything conclusive. Thus far, the Wraith motivation seems pretty straightforward: Eat people. Really eat them, not just their life force.

the Wraith DO NOT eat people. They suck the life out of people leaving the body lifeless. They DO NOT eat human flesh. Thats why I fail to see the comparison between Wraith and Vampires. Vampires actually suck human blood. Trust me, the Wraith idea was gotten from the Atavus species in the SciFi channel series "Earth" Final Conflict"

Teal'c
July 19th, 2004, 01:40 PM
...what I'm trying to say is that they "borrowed" the Atavus idea and used it to make the Wraith. Apparently they took out some characteristics of the Atavus such as their erotic behaviour, but still the Wraith and Atavus are awfully similar.
Yeah, because I'm sure the Atavus were an original idea :rolleyes:

uknesvuinng
July 19th, 2004, 02:56 PM
the Wraith DO NOT eat people. They suck the life out of people leaving the body lifeless. They DO NOT eat human flesh. Thats why I fail to see the comparison between Wraith and Vampires. Vampires actually suck human blood. Trust me, the Wraith idea was gotten from the Atavus species in the SciFi channel series "Earth" Final Conflict"
The Atavus were just alien vampires, hardly original themselves. They weren't even as good as the original Atavus (Atavi?) from S2-S4. S5 suffered from a lot of budget and other problems, as I recall, which is why it went straight downhill.

When Col. Sumner was being fed upon, he seemed to be bleeding around the edges. I think the Wraith probably feed upon the plasma of the blood and/or some other important bodily fluids, while using some kind of compound to artificially age the victim so that more of whatever they consume is produced. At least I hope its something believable like that and not consuming lifeforce which causes people to age. That's almost as bad as the Voyager episode "Threshold" in which the Janeway and Paris get evolved quickly after hitting "infinite" velocity (apparently the universe loops back around because he ends up going to the other end of the galaxy and elsewhere, all the while travelling in a straight line, only to end up a short distance away from the start). At the end, they end up lizard creatures that are much smaller than humans, and they are placed in a radiation chamber of sorts, and revert back to human form, magically regaining mass they didn't have.

EYU86
July 19th, 2004, 02:58 PM
When Col. Sumner was being fed upon, he seemed to be bleeding around the edges. I think the Wraith probably feed upon the plasma of the blood and/or some other important bodily fluids, while using some kind of compound to artificially age the victim so that more of whatever they consume is produced. At least I hope its something believable like that and not consuming lifeforce which causes people to age. That's almost as bad as the Voyager episode "Threshold" in which the Janeway and Paris get evolved quickly after hitting "infinite" velocity (apparently the universe loops back around because he ends up going to the other end of the galaxy and elsewhere, all the while travelling in a straight line, only to end up a short distance away from the start). At the end, they end up lizard creatures that are much smaller than humans, and they are placed in a radiation chamber of sorts, and revert back to human form, magically regaining mass they didn't have.
I think the blood came from the Wraith digging her nails into his chest.

Persephone
July 19th, 2004, 08:03 PM
the Wraith DO NOT eat people. They suck the life out of people leaving the body lifeless. They DO NOT eat human flesh. Thats why I fail to see the comparison between Wraith and Vampires. Vampires actually suck human blood. Trust me, the Wraith idea was gotten from the Atavus species in the SciFi channel series "Earth" Final Conflict"

Well, I've only gotten to see it once, so I'm just going off of first impressions. I haven't read much about the Wraith, just sort of drew my own conclusions from what I saw. When she had her hand on Sumner I figured she was killing him and trying to use her mental powers to torture him into revealing more information and that she was going to eat him after he was dead. Just one question, though-- if they don't eat flesh, what was with the stripped skeleton guy from ten minutes before? He was chiefly responsible for said assumption. ;)

(I'm not saying you're wrong-- you probably know better than me. Just trying to clear some of this stuff up for my own benefit)

uknesvuinng
July 19th, 2004, 08:09 PM
Just one question, though-- if they don't eat flesh, what was with the stripped skeleton guy from ten minutes before?
The end of the aging process after he was fed upon.

SGTLopez
July 19th, 2004, 09:48 PM
. Just one question, though-- if they don't eat flesh, what was with the stripped skeleton guy from ten minutes before? )

He was just finger licking good I guess. :)

vikingjedi
July 19th, 2004, 10:01 PM
From what I saw, the wraith somehow literally take your "life force" and cause you to age. I guess they stop when there is no energy left, which would mean when the person is dead (just a skeleton remaining).

As for the atavus, they were very similar to the Wraith. The only difference is the Wraith are scary, and they seem like they're truely a formidable evil species. The atavus on the other hand, were pretty much a joke. They looked like the Cardassians from Star Trek and they had these "claws" made of energy (if I remember right). I stopped watching EFC after they debuted.

Hyperspace
July 20th, 2004, 12:30 AM
I stopped EFC too after they debuted. Compared to the Taelons, they were idiotic. But I think the Cardassians are way above in league over the Atavus. They had an interesting storyline, better makeup, and were less of a cardboard baddie than the Atavus were. I felt the Atavus decision was really an excuse to have cheaper aliens. Instead of full body suit and shoulders-up casts, it was just a normal jacket costume, wig, and forehead piece (at least that's what it seemed to me).

The Wraith look far more creepy.

Xzyl
July 20th, 2004, 02:27 AM
KreeApophis space vampireswere an old concept even by the time of the orignal startrek series which itself had two.

Startrek episode The Man Trap featured had a vampire that drained the salts out of its victim. It was a non-humanoid biped that could change its apperance based on the memories of whoever was looking at it and it could mentaly stun its prey. Its feeding organs were in its hands. It was however killed by the characters normal weapons.

Startrek episode Obsession had a blood eating vampire called a Malitas (sp?). It had the form of a gaseous cloud while it was awake and turned into solid rock while it slept. Its entire body was its feeding organ and would envelop its victim as it drained them. It was also immune to the characters normal weapons. It was finaly killed in a massive matter antimatter explosion.

Babylon 5 episode Grail had a vampire called a Na'ka'leen feeder that fed off the minds of its victims. It was completely non-humanoid and its feeding organs were at the ends of its front tentacals (it had to touch the head of their victim to feed off them). Unlike the other vampires it did not kill its victims but left them in a mindless vegatative state. It also had no special abuilites and was easily killed with the characters normal weapons.

Buck Rogers in the 25th Century episode Space Vampire had a vampire called a Vorvon that fed off the lifeforce of its victims. It drained its victims by placing its thumb and pinky on the throat of its victim. This thing that looked like a Nosferatu and Asgurd love child was invisible to all except its would be victims, it was also invisible to sensors and cameras. It had the abuility to raise its dead victims and control them. It could also transform itself into a small blob of red energy that could escape through the smallest cracks. It was imune to the characters normal weapons. It could be hurt, but not killed, a type of amulet. It was finaly killed when it was tricked into getting trapped aboard a ship that had been programed to fly into the sun.

Earth Final Conflict had two versions of the Atavus. Atavus Rev 1 were strait up ravenous killing machines that only thought about their next meal. They fed through their hands but did not have to be in direct physical contact with their victim as the lifeforce could be drawn out of them from a short distance. They were bipedal nonhumanoid. I am not sure if they could shoot bolts of energy out of their hands or if I am mixing it up with other episodes. They had no additional abuilities. They were resistant to the characters normal weapons but were not totaly imune. The first Atavus was turned back into a taelon when its psychic link to the rest of its race was restored. The second one was killed when it fell off a cliff.

Atavus Rev 2 were a bad watered down versions of the originals. They were so human like in appearance that it is possible for them to disguise themselves as humans by mearly putting on a hat. But even that was unessary as walking down a dark street was enough to hide their miniscule alien features. They were constantly obsesed with satisfying their own pleasures. Unlike the earlier version this kind of Atavus used energy claws that had to be plunged into its victims in order to feed on them. They had the abuility to climb walls like spiderman and to regenerate (but they started losing their abuility to regenerate near the end). At first they could killed with a lot of shots, then they became imune for a while, then when they started to lose their abuility to regenerate could be killed with a few shots. They could also be killed with explosives or if you could cut their heads off.

Since this started with subject of who stole what from who lets go over the Earth Final Conflict episode Grave Danger. Here is a synopsis of it:

http://www.efc.com/episodes/ep515.html

Whos show does it sound more like? :D

KreeApophis
July 23rd, 2004, 12:33 AM
I think the blood came from the Wraith digging her nails into his chest.

..yep, thats what I was gonna say.

hyzmarca
September 26th, 2005, 12:48 PM
From the description they sound atleast siblings =)

but Wraith erotic.... dunno about that one.

Wraith are erotic in the same way that all vampires are. The draining of Blood/Life Force has been a blatent uphamism for violent sex even since Bram Stroker first penned Dracula.

The Wraith are certainly sexy in their own way, especially the females. A consensual feeding could be a very erotic experience for both wraith and human, just as having one's blood drained is portrayed as being highly sensual in most vampire literature. One might compare being fed upon directly to sex. When sex is forced it is a unspeakably traumatic. When sex is consensual it can be a uniquely pleasureable experience. We all know that forced feedings are traumatic and painful, but to the best of my knowledge, we have never seen a consensual feeding.

deathbed1983
September 26th, 2005, 02:52 PM
i was just think about this the other day, they do seem kinda alike

!Dorentus!
September 26th, 2005, 04:40 PM
but to the best of my knowledge, we have never seen a consensual feeding. Yes we have:S In the season 2 episode "Instinct" we saw a flashback of a consentual feeding, I'd say it looked painful.

mgbland
September 27th, 2005, 05:38 AM
In D&D terms, the wraith drain two experience levels with each touch, while the Ghost touch ages 10 years

With the erotic view of wraiths, that's an interesting twist. But most male wraiths we've seen feed on human males. Though we've seen some male wraiths get pretty close to feeding on women. I think it's probably because of the feeding through the chest issue. The actors are uncomfortable with that aspect of their role.

In the Buffy role, the bite was quite erotic. One one of the DVDs, James Marsters explained, that male vampires often went for females and the females went for males.

However, I don't see much erotic about the wraith process. Those screams aren't screams of ecstacy but of agony. Maybe the wraith gets something erotic out of it, but not his victim.

hyzmarca
September 27th, 2005, 01:40 PM
With the erotic view of wraiths, that's an interesting twist. But most male wraiths we've seen feed on human males.


There isn't anything wrong with that. It just means more slash fanfiction.


However, I don't see much erotic about the wraith process. Those screams aren't screams of ecstacy but of agony. Maybe the wraith gets something erotic out of it, but not his victim.

The line between pleasure and pain is not always clear. Sometimes, there isn't a line at all. It is quite possible for the two are equivilant. I wouldn't go so far as to claim that Pegasus is populated by extreme masochists, but it wouldn't unreasonale to say that some people enjoy the process just as some people enjoy being brutally whiped and canned. Some poets describe orgasm as the "little death". By this analogy, one might describe death as the "big orgasm".
Certainly, most people see being eaten as painful and traumatic and the wraith do very little to change that, but, if both participants are in with the mindset, both wraith and human may get a great deal of pleasure out of it.
Is such masochistic pleasure worth dying for? Tough call. Most people say no. Surely, some say yes just as some welcome the bite of a vampire.