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GateWorld
January 14th, 2006, 08:39 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/s2/index.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/graphics/212.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px solid black" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">LOST SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/s2/index.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none">FIRE PLUS WATER</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 212</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
Charlie is haunted by surreal dreams that convince him Claire's baby, Aaron, is in danger -- leading Locke to suspect that he is using drugs again.

<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/lost/s2/index.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Cinephilic TV Addict
January 25th, 2006, 09:43 PM
Nothing really special about this episode. It sets up potential for future ones, but is really just lackluster in itself.

Lost is really headed towards jumping the shark. It could be argued that it already has.

GatetheWay
January 25th, 2006, 09:48 PM
What a boring episode. It didn't tell us anything we didn't know or could guess. I like Charlie a lot but this episode was a real yawn. I was expecting something really cool to happen near the end but all we got was a cop out ending. Bummer.

Next week looks MUCH more promising.

Vee
January 25th, 2006, 10:27 PM
I agree that this was a very boring episode. Hardly anything at all happened. The only significant thing that we learned is that Aaron might be in danger at some point. Was it really necessary to devote an entire hour to develop this one potential problem?

Charlie's flashbacks were dull. We already knew his brother cleaned up his act. I didn't feel that we learned anything really new here. Didn't we already have an ep where we saw Charlie's brother as an addict and then saw him sober and clean? This seemed like almost the same flashback in a way.

The subplot with Libby and Hurley was cute.

Overall, this episode just didn't do anything for me. After watching it, I felt like someone who was expecting some delicious homemade lasagna for dinner, only to get leftover meatloaf.

d3u5
January 26th, 2006, 04:29 AM
Boooooring....

Tok'Ra Hostess
January 26th, 2006, 05:19 AM
Yeah, but... man! Locke punching out Charlie! That was different.

And just why did Locke keep the drugs? I thought that was one interesting take when Locke was putting his water bottle into the bag full of Our Lady of Addiction that he stopped short and stared for a few seconds. Is Locke addicted to drugs, too?

Painkillers, maybe, from whatever caused him to be paralysed? Addictions are like that; you can convince yourself that you're over it, that you don't need drugs anymore, yet, you take comfort knowing they are within easy reach. I think it would be a real twist if it turned out Locke was more like Charlie than we thought.

As for Charlie's dreams, I thought they were pretty wild. The lighting/makeup on the Mother Mum and Mother Claire angels was fantastic, giving their faces that porcelained look of religious iconography. And there was real danger for the baby. He could have drowned him(and in this show, he really could have drowned him.

So, was it an effect of the drugs(which I'm convinced he's not using, ATM) or is it the island getting into Charlie's head?

I also wonder if this ep will tie in to the Crazy French Chick, Danielle's story. She did kidnap Aaron, and judging from the scratches on her forearm she was somehow involved with Claire's abduction as well.

Personally, I liked the backstory for Charlie. We understand his burden a little better; he's the son/brother who was supposed to free his family from their miserable existence and he failed.

I liked the ep. :)

FoolishPleasure
January 26th, 2006, 05:42 AM
This one was dull, but I think it set up some things for down the road. Can't hit a home run every week.

My husband thinks Charlie has another stash somewhere - he says every good "user" has more than one hidden stash (how he knows this. . um, should I fret? *LOL*). Now, is Charlie using, or is he just going nuts? And why did Locke hide the statues instead of destroying them?

Eko steals every scene he is in. A very cool addition.

Oblivion147
January 26th, 2006, 06:12 AM
I was not looking forward to this episode especially after seeing the previews, however I have to admit I quite enjoyed it. It was slow paced and nothing really happened but It was nice to see more background for Charlie and to be honest a bad episode of Lost is still better that almost everything else on TV.

During the final flashback when Liam and Charlie walk past a wall on the way to the underground station it is full of graffiti and posters. Is there anything of interest on there in the usual Lost Easter egg fashion, I watched the episode on a laptop at work and it was too grainy to tell. Need some high definition help!

aaobuttons
January 26th, 2006, 06:41 AM
Pretty interesting episode, I think it helped to make Charlie more sympathetic (I didn't like him the last few episodes, too crazy psycho stalker for me) and finally got me off my fence for Locke (I've fallen into the dislike side now). Not every episode can be about Jack and the Others.

I did like the comment Charlie made about how Kate saw a horse and nearly everyone has seen Walt running around and everything's fine but as soon as he dreams that Aaron is in danger everyone thinks he's on drugs!

I had some wild theories that my husband laughed at me for, but I'd like to know what anyone who hasn't read spoilers for future episodes thinks about them.
1. I think Libby is a porn star or something equally weird. Hurley said he thought he knew her, and she sort of freaked out and tried to cover it up with a lame story (which might be true, I just don't think he would have remembered that).
2. I think Locke is drugging Charlie with the heroin to separate him from Claire and put himself in the role of protector. Charile has been acting weird, but I don't think he's using. He didn't know why he was having those weird dreams or taking Aaron, and a user would have realized it was a trip. Heroin can be put into food or liquid, and the filling up the water bottle gave me the hint. And Locke knew where the plane was, and could have made his own secret stash at any time.

Tok'Ra Hostess
January 26th, 2006, 07:14 AM
1. I think Libby is a porn star or something equally weird.

I agree. She's definitely hiding something.


2. I think Locke is drugging Charlie with the heroin to separate him from Claire and put himself in the role of protector.

Ooh, that's an interesting take on Locke, and consistent with his character - he did drug Boone, after all, and Charlie's dream had an "agenda" type feel to it. Your wild theory makes more sense than mine. :)

yaaayoubetcha
January 26th, 2006, 08:04 AM
1. I think Libby is a porn star or something equally weird.


what's weird about being a porn star? i had to pay my way thru college somehow...



2. I think Locke is drugging Charlie with the heroin to separate him from Claire and put himself in the role of protector.

i was thinking that Locke might be doing something to undermine Charlie, though not neccesarily drugging him. a few people have access to the weapons locker, so putting the statues there isn't really hiding them. i do think Locke is definately trying to put himself into Aaron's life though. For good or ill? (Locke's perspective, of course).


overall, i thought it was a pretty pointless ep. we knew the baby would be in danger...they told us that last season...so that was not big news.

i think this was a badly done crutch ep...they needed a transition from the first part of the season's stories to whatever's going to happen going forward and as charlie points out...everybody sees walt...nobody cares...all the other strange things that go on and nobody cares...but charlie gets a bit of a freaky of his own and suddenly it's the tar addict having problems...we the audience know he's clean, but the other survivors should know as well. it's hard for an addict to function well and hide problems in that small a group in that confined a space...i think, realistically (i know, it's tv) they'd know for sure that he wasn't using...

oh well....it's an hr i can't get back but hopefully it's the only hr i won't have liked for the season.

ItsDan
January 26th, 2006, 08:56 AM
I interpreted Locke keeping the drugs as just a practicality issue. Better to have them and not need them than destroy them and need them. Someone might be injured and need some heavy narcotics, or as was suggested, he might want them to 'setup' Charlie later if he feels Charlie poses a threat to the group.

Darren
January 26th, 2006, 10:08 AM
It's nice to see a Charlie episode again, but the flashbacks/dreams didn't really go anywhere. They demonstrated his lack of touch with reality, his desire to save and take care of those he loves, and his attempts to pull himself out of the gutter and make something of his life again. That fit well with the episode, but all in all, it wasn't anything new.

The cool thing about the episode is that Charlie isn't using, yet he is being treated like he is (and is rather acting like he is, frankly). Ever since he discovered a new supply of heroine we the audience have been living with this threat that he might go back, even after his amazing break from addiction in "The Moth." What a great idea to have an episode where he doesn't go back to using, but is found out and treated like a wacked-out addict anyway.

Locke -- he almost gets as much development as Charlie in a Charlie episode. He's definitely being set up as a potential bad guy, which isn't new. The writers tend to drop not-so-subtle hints that he's got a nasty plan hatching, then make him a protagonist for several episodes so that we forget.

Unanswered question: Why is Charlie going coo-koo? Having odd dreams is no biggy; having a lucid dream while you are sleep-baby-snatching is entirely over the top. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Locke has been lacing Charlie's water in order to assert himself in between Charlie and Claire. And other nefarious purposes heretofor unrevealed!

Vee
January 26th, 2006, 10:27 AM
ii think this was a badly done crutch ep...they needed a transition from the first part of the season's stories to whatever's going to happen going forward and as charlie points out...everybody sees walt...nobody cares...all the other strange things that go on and nobody cares...but charlie gets a bit of a freaky of his own and suddenly it's the tar addict having problems...we the audience know he's clean, but the other survivors should know as well. it's hard for an addict to function well and hide problems in that small a group in that confined a space...i think, realistically (i know, it's tv) they'd know for sure that he wasn't using...

Would they? People seem to be wandering off into the jungle on a regular basis, including Charlie. They had no idea what he was doing out there. I don't think it's far fetched that people would put two and two together and assume he'd gone off to use, particularly after he started acting crazy. If they thought he was using before this episode I'd be skeptical. But his behavior here didn't exactly make him appear sober.

It may not be fair, especially since we know he wasn't using. Unfortunately though, when you have an addict around and he starts acting wild it's hard not to think the worst.

I'm also not sure the space is as confined as it used to be. It looks like security has grown rather lax. I think the survivors are settling in. But they also appear to be going off and doing their own thing away from the group anytime now. I'm not saying people wouldn't notice things. However, the group doesn't seem as close knit as it was before.

GatetheWay
January 26th, 2006, 12:07 PM
But if Locke really is trying to drive a wedge between Charlie and Claire why didn't he show Clarie the Marys when they were in his pack? That would of easily of destroyed any remainding trust Clarie had in Charlie.

Cinephilic TV Addict
January 26th, 2006, 12:54 PM
1. I think Libby is a porn star or something equally weird.

It'd be really sorrowful for Hurley if Libby recognizes him as a millionaire and hits on him for the money...

Thermonuclearboy
January 26th, 2006, 01:44 PM
I think the arrival of Ecko to the group has just thrown Locke off his game. He no longer has the monopoly on spiritual guidance. In fact, Ecko's a better advisor than he is in a lot of ways: Locke has blind irrational faith in the Island, while Ecko is a bit more rational. And Charlie, having been a good Catholic boy once upon a time, is naturally drawn more to a priest than a crazy shaman.

So I think his violent rejection of Charlie also stems from jealousy. Loss of a son-figure has made him somewhat embittered. Which is bad news for Charlie; Locke is NOT someone you want to have as an enemy. Not only is he tough, he's smart too. He'll outthink you...which is what he's been doing.

leaper
January 26th, 2006, 11:03 PM
I was expecting to yawn through this episode *note to self, don't read any spoilerish stuff* but I found it to be one of the more interesting episodes. Charlie obviously only feels useful in life when he's the "hero", when he's 'saving' someone...the whole point of this episodes flashbacks, in my opinion, and I do wonder, if Locke hadn't have followed him, would he have fallen back into using? And Locke's over the top reaction (in my opinion), what on earth is that all about? And I agree with To'kra Hostess, why on earth did Locke keep the statues? Is he using himself? Is he using it to control others?
Regarding the Libby/Hurley thing...I hope for his sake, she didn't find out about his millions already...because, can we say throwing oneself at someone???

In so many ways, I hate this show..makes me keep watching, and thinking of more questions than answers.

memnarch
January 26th, 2006, 11:34 PM
:( This was without a doubt, the worst lost episode I've seen! All the reactions seemed incongruent and unnecessary, at least in the main storyline. Though I liked the Hurley/Libby subplot, the Jack/Kate/Sawyer/Ana-Lucia rectangle is already old and it hasn't even come to fruition yet. Kate's helping Sawyer with his "excercises" was hard to watch. It really put me off. Everyone's reactions to Charlie in the episode bothered me. First of all, it's told from Charlie's point of view. That alone makes the other's reactions seem strange. On top of that though, it seems to me that they're going to kill off Charlie now! Shannon started going through stuff and no one believed her. When she died it was like, "oh, she's dead, we're sorry for the way we treated her." Now it seems like they're repeating that with Charlie. Only I like Charlie's character! Finally, all the other issues between characters have been resolved. Sayid doens't blame Ana-Lucia. Jack and Locke have come to an understanding. Everyone except Charlie! Locke's punching him three times was utterly unnecessary and out of character for Locke. He's supposed to be the one who understands, who has faith in people, but this episode he was a different person. Claire slapping Charlie I could understand, but that, no way.

Maybe I didn't "get" this episode, but I'm giving it a 1/4 because whoever wrote it must have been doing drugs themselves when they wrote it.

MarshAngel
January 27th, 2006, 05:12 AM
But if Locke really is trying to drive a wedge between Charlie and Claire why didn't he show Clarie the Marys when they were in his pack? That would of easily of destroyed any remainding trust Clarie had in Charlie.
Maybe he's playing smart and patient. If he showed her the marys she would probably have turned against Charlie but it's much better when you see with your own eyes rather than have someone tell you that way there's not doubt left in your mind. And if Locke actively does something it may seem later on that he had an agenda.

It wasn't my favorite episode but I think it's setting up for something greater.

wizelf
January 28th, 2006, 01:45 AM
I think that Charlie's visions and his behavior as just part of the withdrawal sympoms and flashbacks. In any event, he went cold turkey and not many of them know what's going on.

The six statues he held were intact until this show, that probalby means that he wasn't using the drugs, but he was about too after being kicked out by Kate. Locke knew that this was going to happen, if you pushed a fragile Charlie this way, he will fall for the addiciton one more. This is why he followed him and had to play the hard ass to get his attention.

I also didn't like how people were treating him, but since this is from his point of view, perhaps it was his own insecure way of seeing how others are reacting to him.

Locke is really creeping me out with his newly developed interest in Claire and the baby, so who knows what's going to happen here.

Oh and I think that Locke kept the drugs for medical use or for more sinister reasons later on. I don't think he kept them for Charlie...

Erised
January 28th, 2006, 05:50 AM
not the best eppy ever :p Poor Claire!!

howie2000slc
March 20th, 2006, 04:29 PM
Long time reader first time poster...


Libby and Hurley, i think the porn star angle is a bit too much, she is a shrink and Hurley was once in a hospital, she may have treated him. but anyway he recognised her.. so i doubt she knows about the money, and even if she does its not like he can get cash out at the Cave ATM..

Metarock Sam
July 4th, 2006, 04:37 PM
Well that episode was interesting. Not the worst episode this season by far
(has everyone forgotten that awful Shannon episode ???).
What made it so good was the fact that Charlie wasnt using and through this it felt that us the auidence really got to know how his mind was working.
I think Locke is upto something. I dont think he would drug Charlie to get close to Claire. Its something he wouldnt do. And the punching was a bit odd.
Lets hope Charlie will regain his trust back somehow.
Hurley and Libby eh. No I dont think Libby is a Pornstar but since she was a clinical psychologist suggests that they may have met before at the mental hospital. Lets wait and see.
Charlies flashbacks were slightly pointless. But It did fit with the whole taking care of the family line but we already had seen Liam come clean and so on in previous flashbacks.
Next weeks ep looks interesting. The Others return !!!

The Prophet
July 5th, 2006, 08:02 AM
Was it just me, or did you find that Kate defending/ helping/ sympathising with Claire quite weird? it seemed to just appear out of the blue! I don't think that they've even talked before this episode, & now they appar to be close friends!

It just seems odd, to me...

*E*K*R*
July 5th, 2006, 01:10 PM
Was it just me, or did you find that Kate defending/ helping/ sympathising with Claire quite weird? it seemed to just appear out of the blue! I don't think that they've even talked before this episode, & now they appar to be close friends!

It just seems odd, to me...


lol, i thought that!

but you know kate... she's always looking for projects i think.