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View Full Version : Anti-America jab falls on its face



Lord Shiva
January 10th, 2006, 12:03 AM
Did anyone else notice the obvious jab at President Bush and the USA? Part of the way through the episode, the Prime Minister basically says (when the President calls) that she won't turn the situation to him because unlike him, she won't turn it into a war... and then sues for peace.

Then at the end of the episode, she blows the freakin' aliens up!

Talk about taking a liberal stand and then promptly doing the opposite lol

Reefgirl
January 10th, 2006, 12:50 AM
Pot, Kettle, Black if you want my opinion

Qasim
January 10th, 2006, 02:59 AM
*still hasnt seen it*

Its on my to-do list :D

leaper
January 10th, 2006, 04:52 AM
Okay...would have thought that seeing it before posting a comment was kinda relevant...but seeing as its not....
Dunno...haven't seen it...

The Signal
January 10th, 2006, 08:24 AM
Well the thing is



"I dont want to turn this into a war" Which could mean 2 things:
1. She really wanted the peaceful option to work, but gave up on it when they where on the Sycorax ship, killing the two men in front of her was what made her use force on the ship with the energy beam

2. She always planned to destroy the ship, but knew that nothing but Torchwood had the tech to do it, she didnt want a massive battle before they were ready, which could end up damaging the Torchwood weapon and basically loosing any hope we had

Flyboy
January 10th, 2006, 01:57 PM
And besides, she didnt cause a war. She blew the ship up. Bush would have caused a war.

Im sorry, I support the comment. Id make it myself. The US had NO right to demand to take control. It was over British air space, and the US government needed someone to tell them to go F off and stop playing God.

Metarock Sam
January 10th, 2006, 01:59 PM
I think that this was really having a go at the UK saying how we say 'Oh we are better than US and wont sink to their level' when in reality we do.

Reefgirl
January 10th, 2006, 02:28 PM
I said at the beginning of the thread I wished that Tony Blair had Harriet Jones' balls, but then RTD is known for his little digs at Blair, remember the episode World War 3 when the aliens were talking about Massive weapons of Distruction

Metarock Sam
January 10th, 2006, 02:32 PM
Oh how couydl I forget that as the big Slytheen said, 'Victory should be Naked !!!'

Billz
January 10th, 2006, 04:02 PM
*still hasnt seen it*

Its on my to-do list :D

Its probably best to put it on your christmas list since it was a christmas episode and chances are that with the way the BBC and Sci-Fi nogotiations are going, that it wont be on in America untill christmas 2006.

Deputy-Assistant-Second-Prime
January 10th, 2006, 05:14 PM
And besides, she didnt cause a war. She blew the ship up. Bush would have caused a war.

Im sorry, I support the comment. Id make it myself. The US had NO right to demand to take control. It was over British air space, and the US government needed someone to tell them to go F off and stop playing God.Defending the sovereign rights of your nation?!? :eek:

Sir, that is an anti-American statement. :D

Especially, if you look at American history. ;)

Deputy-Assistant-Second-Prime
January 10th, 2006, 05:24 PM
In one scene she says of the US president: "He is not my boss and he is certainly not turning this into a war."

Was this the anti-American statement everyone was talking about?

Egeria
January 10th, 2006, 05:28 PM
^ That's the one. It's a pop at Blair, Bush and Thatcher for the Belgrano incident.

Normally I don't enjoy politics being mixed with fiction, but RTD gets my wholehearted support. :)

Deputy-Assistant-Second-Prime
January 10th, 2006, 05:46 PM
^ That's the one. It's a pop at Blair, Bush and Thatcher for the Belgrano incident.Well, this isn't a new stance for Doctor Who.

It's been anti-war since...the third season (1965), I think.


Normally I don't enjoy politics being mixed with fiction, but RTD gets my wholehearted support. :)Really? That's why I love Sci-Fi...for it's social commentary on our modern world.

In fact, I believe that's why science fiction exists as a genre...to challenge our preconceptions.

Doctor Who in particular has a very populist anti-war statement which are very dangerous themes to echo through an empire.

Deputy-Assistant-Second-Prime
January 10th, 2006, 06:00 PM
Talk about taking a liberal stand and then promptly doing the opposite lolThat's the whole point RTD was making.

Doctor Who Season 2: The Christmas Invasion

She was in over her head.

She was weak.

She choose to use violence in a moment of desperation even when she knew better.

She should have trusted the Doctor, but her fear made her sink to George W. Bush's level.

The moral of this story is fear can even lead good people to act like the bullies they depise.

I've witnessed quite a lot this recently.

That was a timely message, IMO.

IMForeman
January 10th, 2006, 07:01 PM
Bush would have invaded Mars on the basis that if we fight them there, we don't have to fight them here.

The Ice Warriors would have been like "what did we do? No Sycorax here."

DigiFluid
January 10th, 2006, 09:17 PM
An insult to George Dubya is an insult to America now?

Here's a little primer for political arguments for the future, might help you out:

Criticizing a President != Anti-Americanism

Reefgirl
January 10th, 2006, 11:30 PM
An insult to George Dubya is an insult to America now?

Here's a little primer for political arguments for the future, might help you out:

Criticizing a President != Anti-Americanism

George Dubya should be used to being insulted by now he's had long enough to get used to it

Mr Prophet
January 15th, 2006, 04:46 AM
Talk about taking a liberal stand and then promptly doing the opposite lol

This was, I felt, more or less the point.

Flyboy
January 15th, 2006, 12:57 PM
Bush would have invaded Mars on the basis that if we fight them there, we don't have to fight them here.

The Ice Warriors would have been like "what did we do? No Sycorax here."
Bush: "If you are not hiding sycorax terrorist agents and are harbouring weapons of mass destruction, Allow our inspectors to conduct a reprt."

One month later...

Bush: "So far our inspector have found no trace of the sycorax threat, but rest assured, it won't be long."

One year later...

Bush: "i assure you, the sycorax had a base on mars, we jsut couldnt find it."

Mr Prophet
January 15th, 2006, 10:55 PM
Bush: "If you are not hiding sycorax terrorist agents and are harbouring weapons of mass destruction, Allow our inspectors to conduct a reprt."

One month later...

Bush: "So far our inspector have found no trace of the sycorax threat, but rest assured, it won't be long."

One year later...

Bush: "i assure you, the sycorax had a base on mars, we jsut couldnt find it."

And of course...

Blair: It appears that intelligence sources may have been wrong, but I will not apologise for the invasion of Mars as I am not sorry to see the end of the despotic reign of Lord Zzaal.

And of course, they remain committed to bringing freedom and democracy to the Ice Warriors.

Still, apparently we're better off than the Danes. The Prime Minister of Denmark is - or perhaps was, they may have replaced him since I was told this - by all accounts to Tony Blair as Blair is to Dubya.

Lord Shiva
January 15th, 2006, 11:59 PM
I suppose the fact that I support President Bush (I know *gasp* no way!) made me notice the jab and immediately get the gist of it. I guess people really do think in narrow terms. I agree that if they hadn't blown the aliens up they would have come back.

Then again, they Doctor is never wrong, eh? Wait... he is.

Willow'sCat
January 16th, 2006, 12:17 AM
Then again, they Doctor is never wrong, eh? Wait... he is.ho hum...

The Signal
January 16th, 2006, 09:26 AM
I suppose the fact that I support President Bush (I know *gasp* no way!) made me notice the jab and immediately get the gist of it. I guess people really do think in narrow terms. I agree that if they hadn't blown the aliens up they would have come back.

Then again, they Doctor is never wrong, eh? Wait... he is.

Everyone saw it and knew what it was about, but everyone interprets things like that in a different way, and there is no correct way to do it.

I doubt that they would have come back though, they seemed to be a warrior race, and if the klingons have taught us anything, warrior races stick to their word :P

HirogenGater
January 16th, 2006, 09:40 AM
Bush: "If you are not hiding sycorax terrorist agents and are harbouring weapons of mass destruction, Allow our inspectors to conduct a reprt."

One month later...

Bush: "So far our inspector have found no trace of the sycorax threat, but rest assured, it won't be long."

One year later...

Bush: "i assure you, the sycorax had a base on mars, we jsut couldnt find it."

:lol:

The Signal
January 16th, 2006, 12:20 PM
Bush: "If you are not hiding sycorax terrorist agents and are harbouring weapons of mass destruction, Allow our inspectors to conduct a reprt."

One month later...

Bush: "So far our inspector have found no trace of the sycorax threat, but rest assured, it won't be long."

One year later...

Bush: "i assure you, the sycorax had a base on mars, we jsut couldnt find it."


Clinton: I did not have sexual relations with that alien :P

too far?

Deputy-Assistant-Second-Prime
January 16th, 2006, 01:00 PM
I'd rather have that than

Clinton: I did not have sexual relations with that alien :P

too far?Not at all.

It's simply a personal preference.

IMO, the ramifications of adultery are minute compared to misleading our country into war.

But that's just my silly little opinion.

In other words, I'd rather see an elected official mess up his own personal life, than make others pay the price for his dishonesty and lack of judgment.

Willow'sCat
January 16th, 2006, 03:19 PM
IMO, the ramifications of adultery are minute compared to misleading our country into war.

But that's just my silly little opinion.lol, Adultery vs War hmm, I cant choose which is worse. :rolleyes: :p :D *not just your country* :jonas16:

Reefgirl
January 16th, 2006, 11:16 PM
Sex scandals are part and parcel of British Politics now that Politician's have become so PC and Goodie Goodie Politics is boring now

Mr Prophet
January 17th, 2006, 12:34 AM
Sex scandals are part and parcel of British Politics now that Politician's have become so PC and Goodie Goodie Politics is boring now

Yeah. It's all debat, debate, debate. No one ever settles anything with duels anymore.

Except the Doctor.

Reefgirl
January 17th, 2006, 05:32 AM
And no-one [email protected]'s their secretary anymore, accepts bribes, pays off Prostitutes, visit's brothels, so on and so on *Sigh*

Mr Prophet
January 17th, 2006, 05:39 AM
And no-one [email protected]'s their secretary anymore, accepts bribes, pays off Prostitutes, visit's brothels, so on and so on *Sigh*

Except the...no, wait, no he doesn't.

Reefgirl
January 17th, 2006, 09:37 AM
The only bit of excitement has been Charles Kennedy and his alcohol problems and that's not exactly news, If I had to spend my days in Parliament representing the Lib Dems I'd hit the bottle too

Egeria
January 17th, 2006, 04:37 PM
^LMAO....but wait you forget about Galloways antics on BB, surely that has to be good for a laff. *sorry off-topic, but lots of DW threads seem to digress*

The Signal
January 18th, 2006, 08:53 AM
Galloway: Yes I acted like a cat, but the fact of the matter is the Sycorax leader is one of the nicest men i ever met :P

Those antics?

Madeleine
January 18th, 2006, 09:52 AM
Yes I acted like a cat, but it was in order to show up the blair government for what it really is. My purring was a historic victory over those who would censor me.

Constituency surgeries? What constituency surgeries?

(Okay, he's an easy target, but that doesn't stop it being fun :D)

Osiris-RA
January 18th, 2006, 10:07 AM
*still hasnt seen it*

Its on my to-do list :D
Ooh, me too! I'm getting interested all of a sudden. :p

Egeria
January 18th, 2006, 06:41 PM
Yes I acted like a cat, but it was in order to show up the blair government for what it really is. My purring was a historic victory over those who would censor me.
(Okay, he's an easy target, but that doesn't stop it being fun :D)

Fun though it it is....it's not right. A country that allows the media to create it's own news and allow public servants to enter reality tv shows is mad. RTD is 'bang on' for having a pop. :) DW is a Brit show, and as such reflects the time and place...bring it on RTD. (will probably show us a more honest picture than tptb in this country will ever paint)

Willow'sCat
January 18th, 2006, 08:31 PM
Hmm, we are off-topic. :cool: It's all this waiting for new episodes that does it. :p

You had a MP appear on a reality TV show?!? :eek: The shame.

Madeleine
January 18th, 2006, 09:01 PM
You had a MP appear on a reality TV show?!? :eek: The shame.

I know. And it's an MP who castigates other MPs for not turning up to work enough. There's a lot of schadenfreude at the moment, heavy on the freude and not so much schaden; cos this MP will definitely loose his seat come the next election. Never mind, as a participant in a reality show he'll easilly find a new career in showbiz :rolleyes:

IMForeman
January 19th, 2006, 03:12 PM
Hmm, we are off-topic. :cool: It's all this waiting for new episodes that does it. :p

You had a MP appear on a reality TV show?!? :eek: The shame.

We had 2 heads of the US Air Force appear on a cable Sci-Fi show. ;)

Reefgirl
January 19th, 2006, 11:26 PM
Oooh which one was that then http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/115/flaugh9om.gif

Madeleine
January 20th, 2006, 01:37 AM
We had our Prime Minister on a cartoon :eek:

Reefgirl
January 20th, 2006, 04:30 AM
Our Prime Minister IS a cartoon

The Signal
January 20th, 2006, 07:22 AM
Our Prime Minister IS a cartoon

Roflmao

Metarock Sam
January 20th, 2006, 09:44 AM
Our Prime Minister IS a cartoon
Rofl. Oh btw did you see the programme Tony Blair rock star last night ? it was sooooo funny, it showed how tony grew up wanting to become a rock star and how he was like the worst singer in the world but could doa pretty decent Mick Jagger impression . Crazy or what !!!!!

Reefgirl
January 20th, 2006, 10:06 AM
I bet Mick Jagger's laughing

The Signal
February 7th, 2006, 04:35 AM
I bet Mick Jagger's laughing

Arent we all? :P

Wolf Eire
February 7th, 2006, 07:22 AM
cos this MP will definitely loose his seat come the next election.

It would be hard for him to lose it when he's not standing for election next time round.

Why is a satirical jab at the US President and his policies immediately "anti-American"? Did the whole country vote for him and support the war?

Flyboy
February 7th, 2006, 09:21 AM
It would be hard for him to lose it when he's not standing for election next time round.

Why is a satirical jab at the US President and his policies immediately "anti-American"? Did the whole country vote for him and support the war?
There are SOME americans who have a rather loud voice and take the matter of patriotism to extremities, believing that even not liking the current President's hair style is an act of treason.

I say SOME, because MOST Americans, are level headed and good natured people who don't get swept up in the ridiculous pop-politics* thing that the US often sees.

*Pop Politics being the world I use for anything that goes along the lines of "opposition to the war in this country is the greatest single weapon working against the US" - Which was actually broadcast in a news bulletin during Vietnam.

Metarock Sam
February 7th, 2006, 09:22 AM
Yes but in america not bowing to the flag is considerd being anti- american.

Deputy-Assistant-Second-Prime
February 7th, 2006, 09:56 AM
Why is a satirical jab at the US President and his policies immediately "anti-American"? Did the whole country vote for him and support the war?Currently in America, many consider it anti-American to disagree and exercise freedom of speech. Disagreeing with the President, is automatically considered by some to be providing aid and comfort to terrorists.

As you can imagine, the first thing one needs to do is avoid any critical thinking and blindly accept government press releases.

And don't ask obvious questions like,
"If American citizens censor themselves, aren't they voluntarily relinquishing freedom of speech?"
"If we blindly accept everything the government says, aren't we complicit in the establishment of a dictatorship?"
"If we are willing to disregard our values for the purpose of fighting terrorism, which is based on idealism, then what exactly do we stand for?"

IMForeman
February 11th, 2006, 09:12 PM
Yes but in america not bowing to the flag is considerd being anti- american.

Ah, yes... I bow to the flag on a daily basis. Sometimes more than once a day!!! :rolleyes:

Nobody bows to the flag... Nobody. Well, maybe the insane, but nobody playing with a full deck. Not even the most Jingoistic. I don't like the current sweep of irrational patriotism we've been experiencing here, but people taking it that far just doesn't happen.

-IMF
"My country right or wrong, eh?"
"There are worse philosophies."
"Yes, and most of them begin with that."
--Nathan Spring and Commander Griffen, Star Cops, "Trivial Games and Paranoid Pursuits"

Willow'sCat
February 11th, 2006, 11:43 PM
*Pop Politics being the word I use for anything that goes along the lines of "opposition to the war in this country is the greatest single weapon working against the US" - Which was actually broadcast in a news bulletin during Vietnam.Hmm, that must be traveling the world, we have some of that here too. You can't even point out that our troops are poorly equipped without some polly saying 'talk like that puts our troops at risk'. I would have thought poorly equipping our troops puts our troops at risk. :S

Flyboy
February 12th, 2006, 01:23 AM
Yes! Surely poiting out the flaws in the military issue gear SAVES the troops from risk?

Metarock Sam
February 12th, 2006, 03:48 AM
Ah, yes... I bow to the flag on a daily basis. Sometimes more than once a day!!! :rolleyes:

Nobody bows to the flag... Nobody. Well, maybe the insane, but nobody playing with a full deck. Not even the most Jingoistic. I don't like the current sweep of irrational patriotism we've been experiencing here, but people taking it that far just doesn't happen.

-IMF
"My country right or wrong, eh?"
"There are worse philosophies."
"Yes, and most of them begin with that."
--Nathan Spring and Commander Griffen, Star Cops, "Trivial Games and Paranoid Pursuits"
Ok I got it slightly wrong. They pledge allegiance to the flag. ITs practically the same thing anyway.

Deputy-Assistant-Second-Prime
February 12th, 2006, 08:23 AM
Yes! Surely poiting out the flaws in the military issue gear SAVES the troops from risk?Not according to the political right in America.

By pointing out our troops need more equipment, we are "providing aid and comfort to terrorists".
Remember these are the same people who love the military and consider themselves "hawks" and "true patriots".

Does it make any logical sense? No.
Do people actually accept that as a legitimate point? Yes. *Sigh*

IMForeman
February 12th, 2006, 10:25 PM
Ok I got it slightly wrong. They pledge allegiance to the flag. ITs practically the same thing anyway.

Except, just about nobody but school students do that, either. And I stopped doing it in High School, and nobody ever said anything about it.

Metarock Sam
February 12th, 2006, 11:56 PM
Ah I see......

Flyboy
February 13th, 2006, 01:22 AM
I do however recall a woman who hung a flag outside every morning and never let it touch the ground...

Mr Prophet
February 13th, 2006, 02:32 AM
There's a pretty broad spectrum between flag-worshippers and flag-burners, as in any country.

Metarock Sam
February 13th, 2006, 03:42 AM
I do however recall a woman who hung a flag outside every morning and never let it touch the ground...
I think this was in Farenheit 9/11. This women was one of these people who worshipped everything about America , well until the war started.