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View Full Version : The History/Timeline of the Ancients BIG SPOILER ALERT (Mostly Rising)



VirtualCLD
July 18th, 2004, 10:22 AM
First off let me warn you:
SPOILERS FROM RISING AS WELL AS PREVIOUS SG-1 EPISODES SUCH AS FROZEN, WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY, AND LOST CITY

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To put it all into perspective, this is what I have pieced together about what we know so far about the Ancients. Keep in mind that these are my thoughts and are NOT canon. They may be based on facts from Stargate, but the whole history itself is not fact, just a theory of mine.

Many millions of years ago, the Ancients inhabited Earth in a flying city. During their time in our galaxy, they created a network of stargates, most likely for the benefit of exploration and trading with other races. It is possible they didn’t even start on Earth, but this isn’t made clear. We’ve seen another outpost on another world in Lost City and if my theory that the outpost acts like a landing pad (see the very first scene in Rising) than the city of Atlantis could have inhabited other planets prior to Earth.

At some point, several million years ago (I believe it was mentioned 5 to 10 million years ago) they Ancients up and left, leaving our dear friend Ayiana behind (why, I’m not sure, possibly to “hold the fort”). She gets frozen for a couple million years and wakes up in Season 6 of SG-1 in Frozen.

Atlantis arrives in the Pegasus galaxy and they start seeding thousands of worlds (most likely over the course of a million years) with humans like us. Then they encounter the Wraith, who start feeding on the smorgasbord of defenseless, primitive humans and grow in numbers to overwhelm the Ancients. The Ancients, not being an overly offensive people, don’t have much in the way of warriors and the Wraith technology rivals their own, so they are beat back to Atlantis, where they sit under siege for many years. The last remaining Ancients in the city then flee back to Earth through the Atlantis stargate and hopefully covering their tracks so the Wraith can’t follow. Now, I assume they arrive at the outpost, but I’m not sure. Ayiana has been frozen for some time, maybe she got stuck in an avalanche by accident. It is most likely the Ancients did arrive at the outpost to find it quickly overcome by the ice age.

My guess is this happened many thousands of years ago, somewhere between 10,000 and 14,000 years ago. Plato recounted the tale of Atlantis after hearing it from an Egyptian priest. Back then, the story said Atlantis sank 10,000 years ago, so it is likely that from our present time perspective we need to add about 2400 years onto that figure. Plato stated that Atlantis “lied beyond the pillars of Herakles (Hercules for those who prefer the Latin spelling) which is the Straight of Gibraltar. This makes sense if some of the Ancients migrated from the Antarctic outpost and met with some of the seeded humans in the Mesopotamia region. To the humans, it would have appeared that they came from a place that lay beyond the Mediterranean.

Now, from Earth, the Ancients probably attempted to survive by going back to the other worlds in our galaxy that they once occupied and along the way, encountered several races. It is also this time that the Goa’uld have started rising in power and have taken the Unas as hosts as well as starting to scavange from the old Ancient technology. The Ancients met up with the Nox, the Furlings and the Asgards and eventually formed the Alliance to defend against the Goa’uld. From here, I think the Ancients started dying off from the “plague,” but I’m not sure if it was a disease they accidentally carried over form the Pegasus galaxy that laid dormant, or if the plague was something else. We do know that in WoO, the time machine, which appeared to have been built and used in our own galaxy, was used by the Ancients in an attempt to buy them some more time to save themselves from the plague. This is why I think that the “plague” definitely affected the Ancients in this galaxy, probably after they returned from Atlantis, and they ascended while they were here in our galaxy.

Alright, so that is my “interpretation” of what we’ve heard so far about the Ancients, feel free to pick holes in it as much as you would like. I will either try to attempt to fill in those holes or agree with you and make the holes bigger. Please, add your thoughts and opinions to it.

aAnubiSs
July 18th, 2004, 10:25 AM
It could be that Ayiana is the person first infected by the plauge, so she had to stay behind so everyone else wouldn't be infected.

VirtualCLD
July 18th, 2004, 10:28 AM
Hey, good point, didn't think of that.

aAnubiSs
July 18th, 2004, 10:32 AM
That way they had to keep her frozen so everyone on earth wouldn't be infected, but the Ancients that lived with her before were infected. They managed to heal themselves for a while, but eventually they died.

Some invented some sort of technology, either gene manipulation of some sort or something totally new and the result was that they became energy beings.

The other alternative is that somehow a group of Ancients repidly evolved while the others didn't.
This would mean they got introduced to some material/radiation or something, but my guess is on technology. since they learned how to ascend.

I don't think it's spiritual.

EYU86
July 18th, 2004, 10:35 AM
Since their time loop thing didn't work, they should have used a solar flare and sent themselves a note in the past giving details about the plague and their latest research in finding a cure.

aAnubiSs
July 18th, 2004, 10:38 AM
The machine from Metamorphosis comes flying into my mind :)

EYU86
July 18th, 2004, 10:40 AM
The machine from Metamorphis comes flying into my mind :)
That would have been nice, just erase the part of them thats getting infected, or change it slightly so it won't get infected.

aAnubiSs
July 18th, 2004, 10:44 AM
That would have been nice, just erase the part of them thats getting infected, or change it slightly so it won't get infected.

Actually I meant they introduced something / changed something so that they'd ascend.

But they could've cured themselves, and when all other Ancients were dead they formed the allegiance with the Nox, Asgard and Furlings. THEN they evolved and ascended.

Guess that works.

EYU86
July 18th, 2004, 10:46 AM
Yes, yes it does :)

Selmak
July 18th, 2004, 10:46 AM
I don't think the Ancients were overwhelmed by the Wraith forces... The shield covering Atlantis held... and if the Ancient Outposts are any indication it is possible that Atlantis has it's own defenses possibly millions of drones. The virus was more likely the reason for the move back to Earth.

EYU86
July 18th, 2004, 10:48 AM
We'll just have to wait and see.

aAnubiSs
July 18th, 2004, 10:51 AM
Much more fun to speculate :)

Mio
July 18th, 2004, 11:59 AM
I don't think the Ancients were overwhelmed by the Wraith forces... The shield covering Atlantis held... and if the Ancient Outposts are any indication it is possible that Atlantis has it's own defenses possibly millions of drones. The virus was more likely the reason for the move back to Earth.They may not have bothered giving their colonies shields. Atlantis had a shield becuase it's a big city...it flys through space....so they had to keep the air in.

The holoancient said that 'in the hopes of spreading life to a galaxy where there appeared to be none'

They had no idea that they'd have an enemy here.

uknesvuinng
July 18th, 2004, 12:20 PM
It could be that Ayiana is the person first infected by the plauge, so she had to stay behind so everyone else wouldn't be infected.
As people have pointed out from time to time, it's quite possible that the disease Ayiana had wasn't the same disease that plagued the Ancients. Considering it wasn't affecting her, it's possible it was just another disease that to the Ancients wasn't anything, while to us, it was a deadly plague (like the diseases Europeans brought to America) On the other side, she could have been a carrier (infected but not affected). Preferably I'd like it to just be some minor disease, as that disease being the plague just feels kind of lame to me.

aAnubiSs
July 18th, 2004, 12:21 PM
But then why didn't they unfreeze her when they went back to Earth?

hezie99
July 18th, 2004, 12:38 PM
theres massive holes in the whole ancient thing and relating to the asgard since they only had FTL for 30,000 years

VirtualCLD
July 18th, 2004, 12:56 PM
theres massive holes in the whole ancient thing and relating to the asgard since they only had FTL for 30,000 years
Who had FTL for only 30,000 years, the Asgard or the Ancients? I think the ancients that the Asgard met were the descendents of the one who fled back to Earth from Atlatnis. These descendents would have encounterred the Asgard tens of thousands of years ago, not millions. The Ancients who lived on Earth millions of years ago had no dealings with the Asgard, Nox, Furlings, or Goa'uld (or so I believe).

I also do not believe Ayiana was frozen on purpose, I think it was an accident. They didn't know she was burried under the ice when they returned. If she was frozen on pourpose, why not use the stasis pod theat O'Neill used?

I don't think the disease Ayiana had was the plague, in fact it can't be. They said she would have healed perfectly if she was given time to rest and rejuvenate, but instead, she sacrificed herself by using the last of her strength to cure the rest of SG-1 and the people working at the excavation dig. If she would have been fine on her own, then the disease she had couldn't possibly wipe out the Ancients if their immune system could keep it at bay.

mjef
July 18th, 2004, 01:21 PM
Anyone tried to apply the Milankovitch model to this timeline to see how it fits?

brooks_lt
July 18th, 2004, 03:02 PM
I'm not going to supply spoiler space b/c the title gives ample warning. Here's my theory. The Ancients were decimated by a Plague in this galaxy somewhere around 6 million years ago. As all illnesses seem to go, a small portion of the Ancient population was immune to the disease, others were simply carriers, and the remaining were either killed or learned to ascend. Once their numbers in this galaxy were decimated by the effects of the plague, they decided to pack up and try something new, but before this they already had contact with the three most promising races in the galaxy (all of which, I think, were evolutionary threads from the original seeding of our galaxy by the ancients). The most advanced of these was probably the Nox, followed up by the Asgard (way behind the Ancients and the Nox), and finally the Furlings. Sure, we've learned that the Asgard have only had FTL ships for 30,000 years, but before that they still could have been advanced to the point of using the Stargates to travel and interact with Ancients and the other three great races on Ernest's planet. However, when the plague hit, the Ancients cut off all contact with the other races, so as not to pass it on to them. Some, probably a small sect, of the Ancients learned to ascend, likely led by Oma Desala, and passed that information on to as many as they could, likely the ones dying from the plague. However, some of the Ancients probably didn't want to give up their corporeal forms and those who were naturally immune to the plague decided to pack up Atlantis and head out to the Pegasus galaxy to start over, leaving behind a handful of outposts here in the Milky Way in case they ever needed to return.

Well, fast forward a few million years from the departure of Atlantis from our Galaxy, and the Ancients haven't returned because things are going so well in Pegasus. Thousands of planets have thriving human civilizations and populations, not quite as advanced as the Alliance of the four races in the Milky Way, but things look promising. Then, one day, Ancient scientists stumble upon a ringed planet that seems capable of supporting life. The land and to their surprise detect traces of life. They go to investigate, and what do they find but the Wraith. One or two of the Ancients are captured and the Wraith like the new food that's stumbled across their door, having long ago eliminated most life in their galaxy by over-feeding. This time around, the Ancients have provided them with an ample supply of food, and they begin striking human worlds in Pegasus. The Ancients try to stop them, but are overcome by sheer numbers. Remember, they haven't fought anyone or anything for several million years; their tactical skill were likely a bit lacking. The Wraith technology isn't advanced enough to penetrate the defenses of Atlantis, but they can't remain there forever, because the will eventually run out of power and can't gate anywhere to get the materials necessary to fabricate a ZPM. So, they sink the city and gate back to Earth.

This is where things get interesting. I'm guessing that they returned to Earth right around the time the time Ra was big here, and the Antarctic gate has already been buried. Imagine their surprise when the emerge through the gate expecting to see their outpost but instead find themselves inside a Pyramid in Egypt. Once they realize what is going on, they incite the humans to rebel against the Goa'uld, providing minimal material assistance. In order to prevent them from returning, the Ancients tell the humans to bury the Stargate. You see, the Ancients don't want the Goa'uld on Earth because they could discover the Outpost and the weapons it contains. With the gate buried, the homeless Ancients have no choice but to join in with the various peoples of the Mediterranean area, some probably remaining in Egypt, others moving on to Greece, interbreeding with the local population to ensure that their important genetic markers are passed on to future generations that may one day be able to return to Atlantis and liberate the Pegasus galaxy from the Wraith. To that end, the remaining Ancients plant the seeds of civilization in that region of the world, teaching elementary scientific and mathematical principles. That brings us full circle to the present universe of Stargate: SG-1 and Stargate: Atlantis, where the descendants of those Ancients and early humans (people like O' Neill, Shepherd, Beckett, and others) have discovered the Ancient outpost in Antarctica and made their way back to Atlantis. Only time will tell if they succeed in defeating the Wraith. It is important to note that the Wraith likely find themselves in a weakened state. They probably learned from their initial elimination of life from the Pegasus galaxy and do more to conserve their human herds, but they still must sleep to give the human populations time to grow. Also, they probably wouldn't have advanced much beyond where they were when the Ancients arrived, as they had no need and likely sleep for hundred, if not thousands of years at a time between feedings.

As a side note to this entire discussion, I'd like to revisit the idea that the other three great races were all results of the Ancients efforts to seed human life in the galaxy. We know that the Asgard were once much like us, and depending on environmental variables, the differences could probably be explained. The Nox are also similar. We have yet to see the furlings, but I'd guess that they're humanoid as well. This would also provide a much better explanation of groups like the Aschen and the Tollan. They are simply races of humans that have developed more slowly or were seeded later by the Ancients, and were not taken from Earth, as has been theorized up to this point. Instead, they probably developed in parallel with the humans of Earth until the Dark Ages, when we fell behind. If you don't like this exact theory, I do have a variation. In it, the Asgard, Nox and Furlings were early experiments in creating life that wasn't genetically and physiologically identical to the Ancients. Well, that's it for now, and I hope to read what you all have to say about my ideas. :cool:

EYU86
July 18th, 2004, 03:03 PM
Yea...
I'm not reading that^
It's a tad long

aAnubiSs
July 18th, 2004, 03:04 PM
Wonder why :D

brooks_lt
July 18th, 2004, 03:05 PM
:eek:
Yea...
I'm not reading that^
It's a tad long

Come on! It's not that long. I've read longer. Would you like me to break it up? I could do that, I guess, but I don't really see the point.

aAnubiSs
July 18th, 2004, 03:08 PM
Yes you should break it up

Selmak
July 18th, 2004, 04:53 PM
It's to long and wordy... How about a summary... with bullet points.

brooks_lt
July 18th, 2004, 07:09 PM
It's to long and wordy... How about a summary... with bullet points.
Here's my theory (In Brief, sans bullets):

The Ancients were decimated by a Plague in this galaxy somewhere around 6 million years ago. As all illnesses seem to go, a small portion of the Ancient population was immune to the disease, others were simply carriers, and the remaining were either killed or learned to ascend. Once their numbers in this galaxy were decimated by the effects of the plague, they decided to pack up and try something new, but before this they already had contact with the three most promising races in the galaxy (all of which, I think, were evolutionary threads from the original seeding of our galaxy by the ancients). The most advanced of these was probably the Nox, followed up by the Asgard (way behind the Ancients and the Nox), and finally the Furlings.

Well, fast forward a few million years from the departure of Atlantis from our Galaxy, and the Ancients haven't returned because things are going so well in Pegasus. Thousands of planets have thriving human civilizations and populations, not quite as advanced as the Alliance of the four races in the Milky Way, but things look promising. Then, one day, Ancient scientists stumble upon a ringed planet that seems capable of supporting life. One or two of the Ancients are captured and the Wraith like the new food that's stumbled across their door, having long ago eliminated most life in their galaxy by over-feeding. This time around, the Ancients have provided them with an ample supply of food, and they begin striking human worlds in Pegasus. The Ancients try to stop them, but are overcome by sheer numbers.

I'm guessing that they returned to Earth right around the time Ra was big here, and the Antarctic gate has already been buried. In order to prevent the Goa’uld from discovering the Outpost and the weapons it contains, the Ancients incite the Egyptians to rebel and bury the gate. In hopes of one day returning to Atlantis the remaining Ancients plant the seeds of civilization in that region of the world, teaching elementary scientific and mathematical principles. That brings us full circle to the present universe of Stargate: SG-1 and Stargate: Atlantis, where the descendants of those Ancients and early humans (people like O' Neill, Shepherd, Beckett, and others) have discovered the Ancient outpost in Antarctica and made their way back to Atlantis. Only time will tell if they succeed in defeating the Wraith.

As a side note to this entire discussion, I'd like to revisit the idea that the other three great races were all results of the Ancients efforts to seed human life in the galaxy, and present a alternative. In it, the Asgard, Nox and Furlings were early experiments in creating life that wasn't genetically and physiologically identical to the Ancients, and only later did the Ancients try to recreate their own kind.

Hope that makes some of you a bit happier.

EYU86
July 18th, 2004, 07:17 PM
The Ancients were decimated by a Plague in this galaxy somewhere around 6 million years ago. As all illnesses seem to go, a small portion of the Ancient population was immune to the disease, others were simply carriers, and the remaining were either killed or learned to ascend. Once their numbers in this galaxy were decimated by the effects of the plague, they decided to pack up and try something new, but before this they already had contact with the three most promising races in the galaxy (all of which, I think, were evolutionary threads from the original seeding of our galaxy by the ancients). The most advanced of these was probably the Nox, followed up by the Asgard (way behind the Ancients and the Nox), and finally the Furlings.
First, there are other races that evolved in the universe other than the Ancients, there has to be. You can't just say the Ancients seeded the other 3 great races. I mean, the Ancients are great and all, but they didn't do everything. And your order of whose more advanced is pure speculation since we know very little of Nox and Furling technology.

brooks_lt
July 18th, 2004, 07:23 PM
First, there are other races that evolved in the universe other than the Ancients, there has to be. You can't just say the Ancients seeded the other 3 great races. I mean, the Ancients are great and all, but they didn't do everything. And your order of whose more advanced is pure speculation since we know very little of Nox and Furling technology.
I think this is the weakest part of my theory, and the one I'm least attached to. We'll likely never know though. The reason I ordered the races that was was because of the benevolence and abilities demonstrated by the Nox to this point, the fact that the Asgard are still around, and the general lack of contact with the Furlings likely indicating that they may have been wiped out completely. Oh well, disregard this part of my theory, and just give feedback on the rest of it.

EYU86
July 18th, 2004, 07:26 PM
Well, fast forward a few million years from the departure of Atlantis from our Galaxy, and the Ancients haven't returned because things are going so well in Pegasus. Thousands of planets have thriving human civilizations and populations, not quite as advanced as the Alliance of the four races in the Milky Way, but things look promising. Then, one day, Ancient scientists stumble upon a ringed planet that seems capable of supporting life. One or two of the Ancients are captured and the Wraith like the new food that's stumbled across their door, having long ago eliminated most life in their galaxy by over-feeding. This time around, the Ancients have provided them with an ample supply of food, and they begin striking human worlds in Pegasus. The Ancients try to stop them, but are overcome by sheer numbers.

I'm guessing that they returned to Earth right around the time Ra was big here, and the Antarctic gate has already been buried. In order to prevent the Goa’uld from discovering the Outpost and the weapons it contains, the Ancients incite the Egyptians to rebel and bury the gate. In hopes of one day returning to Atlantis the remaining Ancients plant the seeds of civilization in that region of the world, teaching elementary scientific and mathematical principles. That brings us full circle to the present universe of Stargate: SG-1 and Stargate: Atlantis, where the descendants of those Ancients and early humans (people like O' Neill, Shepherd, Beckett, and others) have discovered the Ancient outpost in Antarctica and made their way back to Atlantis. Only time will tell if they succeed in defeating the Wraith.
This part is viable and shows promise of being true.

Lugal
July 18th, 2004, 08:19 PM
It's a good theory, got me thinking and here's mine.

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The Ancients evolved on Earth (Like Beckett says, "We're the second evolution of this form") possibly as early as 30 million years ago. They spread out and explored the galaxy, and accumulated a vast degree of knowledge. Eventually about five to ten million years ago the plague hit, wiping out much of the Ancients, a few learned to Ascend and a few survived in isolated pockets. Eventually after much of the race was gone, they may have found a cure leaving a few isolated survivors. Some tried to find a new life going to the Pegasus galaxy and the ones that stayed formed the allience with the Furlings, Nox, and Asgard.

Meanwhile in the Pegasus Galaxy the Wraith evolved and consumed all life and started starving to death and they went into hibernation. Then the Ancients came to an apparently lifeless galaxy and started seeding it, and woke up the Wraith like the Holo-lady said. They were not prepared to fight them and the Wraith wore them down so eventually the few survivors of Atlantis returned to earth and mixed with the population to spread the genes.

And while Atlantis was busy in Pegasus, here the Allience was going fine as the Goa'uld started making their presence known. For unknown reasons the Alliance dissolved, the remaining Ancients may have ascended, the Nox took up on the forest planet, the Asgard had their own genetic problems and the Furlings well, :confused:

After that the Goa'uld were relatively unopposed and began to dominate the galaxy, and they discovered earth and started taking humans from all over to be slaves and hosts. Then the Tauri rediscovered the gate and have started exploring the universe.

EYU86
July 18th, 2004, 08:22 PM
Also very nice theory

ecm101
July 19th, 2004, 01:25 AM
Here I go
I think that the Ancients, Asgard, Nox, and Furllings had the allance well before the plague struck down the Ancients.
I don't think that the Ancients are from ancient Earth. I think that they moved there from somewhere(or when) else. I bases this on that there is no Naquda(sp?) in our solar system.

My time line......

Ancients come into being..(more on that later)...
Ancients (re)discover FTL travel
50-20 million years ago...
Ancients colonize and Terriform many plantes(including earth?)
Ancients find Naquda and start to use it
Ancients start to build Stargates(earth is one of the 1st-- see frozen S6 sg1)
Ancients venture into other galaxzies
Ancients start to find Nox, Asgard, Furlings
Ancients reach there form we meet in Frozen(fully realizing there physical and mental forms)
Ancients start to use Gene marker tech
Ancients build their Depositories of Knowelge
Ancients, Nox, Asgard, and Furlings form Four Races(i.e. 4r)
Ancients deliver 4r's stargate(including the asgard)
Ancients reach the end of Techonlogy in most areas-- They master the universe in almost everyway.
----------------------------more to come------------------------

ecm101
July 19th, 2004, 02:54 AM
Next

--------------------20 - 10 million years ago------------------
Wriath reach Ftl travel and start to feed on life across Peguses
4r meet at EARNEST planet and set up a history/science book
Asgard experiement with cloning
Ancients society start to fraction
Ancients Build gene maluplation machine(Metamorphosis)
Ancients build device found in EVOLUTION
Ancients make world found in ENTITY
Nox begin to withdrawl to home planet
Some Ancients start to build build wepons to use against each other
Ancients and Nox ended Formal reletions
Asgard gain hyper-drive tech that allows them to slowly goto other galaxies
Ancients start civil war
Wriath hiberanter after kill all other life in Peguises galaxy
Ancients start on the path to Acsenction...
many Anciets die in civil war some Ascend...
Asgard and Furlings enter war with Ancients
Nox host Peace summit on Earnest Planet
-------------------10 million years ago--------------------
Ancients on the world that later becomes the Aschen home world
make a doomsday virus it is not released until later....
Ancients civil war ends
4r reform
Development of hominid bipedalism on Earth help by Ancients
Goa'uld and Unas evlove
Ancient buid Atlantis as a sysbol of unity
-------------------5 million years ago--------------
Doomdays Virus released by acciendent
Many ancients start to die...and most try to ascend
4r fall apart as Ancients leave or die off......
Goa'uld take Unas as host
----------more to come-------------------

Tom M. Riddle Jr.
July 19th, 2004, 04:23 AM
Here's my two cents-

Between 5 and 10 million years ago, the Ancients decided to leave Earth and spread life to other galaxies. Some ancients decided to stay behind. Atlantis arrived in the Pegasus galaxy, and they started to put new versions of the stargate and primitive forms of themselves on planets, as a huge science experiment. They soon met the Wraith and a war began. The Wraith were winning because they out numbered the Ancients. The Ancients invented the healing device to counteract the Wraith life drain. The Wraith unleashed a virus and the Ancients knowing they lost, sunk Atlantis and gated back to Earth. The virus soon began to affect the Ancients on Earth. The Ancients contained the virus though a massive quarantine, and preserved it for study.

Millions of years later, the virus was forgotten and Ancients enter an alliance with the Nox and Furlings; later on the Asgard joined the alliance about thirty thousand years ago. Between 12,000and 15,000, the virus was reopened and ancients unprepared could not stop it again. So, they try to go back in time to stop the recent outbreak of the virus. Time travel didn't work, so some ancients accepted their fate and others figured out how to ascend. A few ancients survived the virus and decided to live out their in isolation on Earth, guiding us humans. The Nox, Furlings, and Asgard went their separated ways and the galaxy fell into a dark age.

About 11,000 years ago the Goa'uld figured out how to use the stargate system and began their rise to power. 10,000 thousand years ago Ra stumbled upon Earth and told the other Goa'ulds and humans were started to be used as hosts. The Goa'uld also spreaded humans throughout the galaxy and enslaved them. The surviving Ancients had no technology to stop the Goa'uld and the outpost was too far away. So they rallied the humans together to rebel against the Goa'uld and the gate in Egypt was buried. The surviving ancients soon died out.

brooks_lt
July 19th, 2004, 05:13 AM
I'd venture a guess that the reason there's no Naquadah in our solar system is that the Ancients used it all. Naquadah can't be that common an element, as heavy as it is, and it was extraordinarily important in Ancient tech. The absence of Naquadah in Earth's solar system is actually an argument in favor of the Ancients originating here, rather than one against it.

aAnubiSs
July 19th, 2004, 05:17 AM
When the Asgard say limited hyperspace capabilities we must remember how fast they travel now. So 30,000 years ago their hyperspace was maybe only capable of travelling in their own galaxy in a reasonable amount of time. So they're around 30,000 years more advanced then the Goa'uld

aAnubiSs
July 19th, 2004, 07:51 AM
What if some extreme group found out how to Ascend?

Imagine if Hitler would have figured it out, then he would choose who would ascend. Maybe that's why "The Others" are so damn cruel.

Lugal
July 19th, 2004, 05:12 PM
What if some extreme group found out how to Ascend?

Imagine if Hitler would have figured it out, then he would choose who would ascend. Maybe that's why "The Others" are so damn cruel.

I don't think that's likely. While there appears to be no moral requirements to ascend (hence Anubis and from that why Oma or the monk guy would not let Bra'tac continue with a symbiote) I think ascention seems to be more like the Buddhist Nirvana. When Daniel was dying, Oma told him (paraphrasing here) basically surrender his desires and illusions (i.e. he isn't good enough because he could not save Sarah or Sha're). He expands his conciousness and ascends.

I doubt Hitler or any other extremists could do that, since it was their desires (world domination, aryan purity, etc.) that led them to their extremism and destruction.

I think that's why they don't really force anyone out (except Anubis) unless they interfere like Daniel or Orlan.

EYU86
July 19th, 2004, 05:15 PM
I don't think that's likely. While there appears to be no moral requirements to ascend (hence Anubis and from that why Oma or the monk guy would not let Bra'tac continue with a symbiote) I think ascention seems to be more like the Buddhist Nirvana. When Daniel was dying, Oma told him (paraphrasing here) basically surrender his desires and illusions (i.e. he isn't good enough because he could not save Sarah or Sha're). He expands his conciousness and ascends.

I doubt Hitler or any other extremists could do that, since it was their desires (world domination, aryan purity, etc.) that led them to their extremism and destruction.

I think that's why they don't really force anyone out (except Anubis) unless they interfere like Daniel or Orlan.
You can take a joke right?

Bart
July 19th, 2004, 05:19 PM
So here's my firs post with my 2 cent of "Ancient Knowledge"

S P O I L E R S P A C E - includes season 8 of SG & Atlantis













From all that I've already dig up about the Ancient, there might be no doubt that the Ancient were the first conscious and intelligent, species in our galaxy. They began with space travel million of years before any other "intelligent" lifeform evolved. By exploring our galaxy (and slowly building the gate network that is more efficient than space travel), they could have populated and altered the natural evolution of thousands of planets (what would explain the resemblance of so many planets to the Canadian/North American flora and fauna :D ). As the first "genetically enhanced mammals" suddenly began to evolve faster, began to use tools, wrote some internet forum entries, ... and discovered the Stargate-Network, the Ancient got interested in this species (like the Asgard did in our) and they formed an alliance with the 3 most developed races.

OK, so far we have the Ancient as the "parents" of our galaxy, the Asgard, Nox & Furlings and some "not so fast developing" races like Humans, Unas, etc...

Due to the great popularity of their work, lots of audience rating and money produced with DVDs and merchandising, the Ancient left to an new galaxy,
leaving a large "plothole" :)

...

Beware! there is more to come (if I get some sleep and nobody stops me :D )

(and excuse my abuse of the english grammar and vocabulary)

Lugal
July 19th, 2004, 06:07 PM
You can take a joke right?

Indeed (and if not, I'll just do that eyebrow thing) :D

Where's that eyebrow smilie?

EYU86
July 19th, 2004, 06:09 PM
There SHOULD be some Stargate based smilies shouldn't there?

Ancient
July 19th, 2004, 06:34 PM
I'm not going to supply spoiler space b/c the title gives ample warning. Here's my theory. The Ancients were decimated by a Plague in this galaxy somewhere around 6 million years ago. As all illnesses seem to go, a small portion of the Ancient population was immune to the disease, others were simply carriers, and the remaining were either killed or learned to ascend. Once their numbers in this galaxy were decimated by the effects of the plague, they decided to pack up and try something new, but before this they already had contact with the three most promising races in the galaxy (all of which, I think, were evolutionary threads from the original seeding of our galaxy by the ancients). The most advanced of these was probably the Nox, followed up by the Asgard (way behind the Ancients and the Nox), and finally the Furlings. Sure, we've learned that the Asgard have only had FTL ships for 30,000 years, but before that they still could have been advanced to the point of using the Stargates to travel and interact with Ancients and the other three great races on Ernest's planet. However, when the plague hit, the Ancients cut off all contact with the other races, so as not to pass it on to them. Some, probably a small sect, of the Ancients learned to ascend, likely led by Oma Desala, and passed that information on to as many as they could, likely the ones dying from the plague. However, some of the Ancients probably didn't want to give up their corporeal forms and those who were naturally immune to the plague decided to pack up Atlantis and head out to the Pegasus galaxy to start over, leaving behind a handful of outposts here in the Milky Way in case they ever needed to return.

Well, fast forward a few million years from the departure of Atlantis from our Galaxy, and the Ancients haven't returned because things are going so well in Pegasus. Thousands of planets have thriving human civilizations and populations, not quite as advanced as the Alliance of the four races in the Milky Way, but things look promising. Then, one day, Ancient scientists stumble upon a ringed planet that seems capable of supporting life. The land and to their surprise detect traces of life. They go to investigate, and what do they find but the Wraith. One or two of the Ancients are captured and the Wraith like the new food that's stumbled across their door, having long ago eliminated most life in their galaxy by over-feeding. This time around, the Ancients have provided them with an ample supply of food, and they begin striking human worlds in Pegasus. The Ancients try to stop them, but are overcome by sheer numbers. Remember, they haven't fought anyone or anything for several million years; their tactical skill were likely a bit lacking. The Wraith technology isn't advanced enough to penetrate the defenses of Atlantis, but they can't remain there forever, because the will eventually run out of power and can't gate anywhere to get the materials necessary to fabricate a ZPM. So, they sink the city and gate back to Earth.

This is where things get interesting. I'm guessing that they returned to Earth right around the time the time Ra was big here, and the Antarctic gate has already been buried. Imagine their surprise when the emerge through the gate expecting to see their outpost but instead find themselves inside a Pyramid in Egypt. Once they realize what is going on, they incite the humans to rebel against the Goa'uld, providing minimal material assistance. In order to prevent them from returning, the Ancients tell the humans to bury the Stargate. You see, the Ancients don't want the Goa'uld on Earth because they could discover the Outpost and the weapons it contains. With the gate buried, the homeless Ancients have no choice but to join in with the various peoples of the Mediterranean area, some probably remaining in Egypt, others moving on to Greece, interbreeding with the local population to ensure that their important genetic markers are passed on to future generations that may one day be able to return to Atlantis and liberate the Pegasus galaxy from the Wraith. To that end, the remaining Ancients plant the seeds of civilization in that region of the world, teaching elementary scientific and mathematical principles. That brings us full circle to the present universe of Stargate: SG-1 and Stargate: Atlantis, where the descendants of those Ancients and early humans (people like O' Neill, Shepherd, Beckett, and others) have discovered the Ancient outpost in Antarctica and made their way back to Atlantis. Only time will tell if they succeed in defeating the Wraith. It is important to note that the Wraith likely find themselves in a weakened state. They probably learned from their initial elimination of life from the Pegasus galaxy and do more to conserve their human herds, but they still must sleep to give the human populations time to grow. Also, they probably wouldn't have advanced much beyond where they were when the Ancients arrived, as they had no need and likely sleep for hundred, if not thousands of years at a time between feedings.

As a side note to this entire discussion, I'd like to revisit the idea that the other three great races were all results of the Ancients efforts to seed human life in the galaxy. We know that the Asgard were once much like us, and depending on environmental variables, the differences could probably be explained. The Nox are also similar. We have yet to see the furlings, but I'd guess that they're humanoid as well. This would also provide a much better explanation of groups like the Aschen and the Tollan. They are simply races of humans that have developed more slowly or were seeded later by the Ancients, and were not taken from Earth, as has been theorized up to this point. Instead, they probably developed in parallel with the humans of Earth until the Dark Ages, when we fell behind. If you don't like this exact theory, I do have a variation. In it, the Asgard, Nox and Furlings were early experiments in creating life that wasn't genetically and physiologically identical to the Ancients. Well, that's it for now, and I hope to read what you all have to say about my ideas. :cool:
I really like your theory it seems quite possible, and enjoyable as well, but where do u account for the ascending of the ancients and teh aasgard sayign they moved on form the galxy dont u think the would have contacted the asgard and ben like " yo get these snakes out of here, and help us rebuld rather than follow the natural progression. I really do like ur idea tho

Lugal
July 19th, 2004, 06:35 PM
There SHOULD be some Stargate based smilies shouldn't there?

Yep. An eyebrow smilie, a jaffa smilie, an eyes glow smilie. Chel'nat :)

ecm101
July 19th, 2004, 11:30 PM
after much thought,
___________________still around 5 million years______________________

Ancients numbers cut in half.
Ancients find cure to the virus but it has side effect sterility(sp?)
Ancients put some of the uncured into statis hoping for a fix later
the rest of the Anicients work on bring about the humans of earth
Ancients discover that some of the humans have the gene marker
Ancients move the lost city to Pegasis with a number of humans
--------------------------5 - 1 million years ago----------------
Humans and a few Ancients inhabit Peguses only (only a few sub species exist on Earth)
Ancients/Humans awake the Wriath
Wriath destroy most of the Human settlements( but leave them to rebuild and repopulate)
____________________________1 - 0.5 million years ago-------------
The few Ancients that are left and some Humans fall back to Atlantis
Ancients sink the city; dial the Earth gate
Ancients lead humans back to earth in Antartica
The last of the Ancients Acsends( oma desala?)
The outpost on earth is lost and the gate is in a ice cave
humanity speads across the Earth....

----------------more to come-----------------

VirtualCLD
July 20th, 2004, 07:18 AM
I know you said "more to come", but when do you think the alliance was formed?

CBD1701E
July 20th, 2004, 07:51 AM
Speaking of Aiyana.... did the same actress, Ona Grauer, play the Aiyana seen in the Ancients outpost in Rising?

aAnubiSs
July 20th, 2004, 07:53 AM
Yes.

Bart
July 20th, 2004, 08:03 AM
Speaking of Aiyana.... did the same actress, Ona Grauer, play the Aiyana seen in the Ancients outpost in Rising?

Yes, the same actress http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s1/101.shtml

And have you noticed the fear in the face of Aiyana, and the angry facial expression of the male Ancient... looks she was forced to stay behind.

aAnubiSs
July 20th, 2004, 08:14 AM
There's an interview with her @ http://www.gateworld.net/articles/interviews/grauer01.shtml if you haven't read it.

VirtualCLD
July 20th, 2004, 08:30 AM
Too bad it was before Atlantis. I would have like to find out if she mentioned anything about Aiyana sp? inthe first scene of Rising. Maybe it would give some insight as to what the Ancients were thinking about when the left for Pegasus.

ecm101
July 21st, 2004, 11:15 PM
I know you said "more to come", but when do you think the alliance was formed?
see My earlier post on this Thread.

Stargate Agent
July 21st, 2004, 11:19 PM
And have you noticed the fear in the face of Aiyana, and the angry facial expression of the male Ancient... looks she was forced to stay behind.

I bet you any money that Atlantis is gonna have a flashback episode one of these days that explains Ayiana's history or why she was left behind. Should be an interesting episode!!

Selmak
July 21st, 2004, 11:43 PM
Maybe they were communicating telepathically.

ecm101
July 22nd, 2004, 12:10 AM
Here Is everything I have got so far.
Here I go
I think that the Ancients, Asgard, Nox, and Furllings had the allance well before the plague struck down the Ancients.
I don't think that the Ancients are from ancient Earth. I think that they moved there from somewhere(or when) else. I bases this on that there is no Naquda(sp?) in our solar system.

My time line......

Ancients come into being..(more on that later)...
Ancients (re)discover FTL travel
50-20 million years ago...
Ancients colonize and Terriform many plantes(including earth?)
Ancients find Naquda and start to use it
Ancients start to build Stargates(earth is one of the 1st-- see frozen S6 sg1)
Ancients venture into other galaxzies
Ancients start to find Nox, Asgard, Furlings
Ancients reach there form we meet in Frozen(fully realizing there physical and mental forms)
Ancients start to use Gene marker tech
Ancients build their Depositories of Knowelge
Ancients, Nox, Asgard, and Furlings form Four Races(i.e. 4r)
Ancients deliver 4r's stargate(including the asgard)
Ancients reach the end of Techonlogy in most areas-- They master the universe in almost everyway.
--------------------20 - 10 million years ago------------------
Wriath reach Ftl travel and start to feed on life across Peguses
4r meet at EARNEST planet and set up a history/science book
Asgard experiement with cloning
Ancients society start to fraction
Ancients Build gene maluplation machine(Metamorphosis)
Ancients build device found in EVOLUTION
Ancients make world found in ENTITY
Nox begin to withdrawl to home planet
Some Ancients start to build build wepons to use against each other
Ancients and Nox ended Formal reletions
Asgard gain hyper-drive tech that allows them to slowly goto other galaxies
Ancients start civil war
Wriath hiberanter after kill all other life in Peguises galaxy
Ancients start on the path to Acsenction...
many Anciets die in civil war some Ascend...
Asgard and Furlings enter war with Ancients
Nox host Peace summit on Earnest Planet
-------------------10 million years ago--------------------
Ancients on the world that later becomes the Aschen home world
make a doomsday virus it is not released until later....
Ancients civil war ends
4r reform
Development of hominid bipedalism on Earth help by Ancients
Goa'uld and Unas evlove
Ancient buid Atlantis as a sysbol of unity
-------------------5 million years ago--------------
Doomdays Virus released by acciendent
Many ancients start to die...and most try to ascend
4r fall apart as Ancients leave or die off......
Goa'uld take Unas as host
___________________still around 5 million years______________________
Ancients numbers cut in half.
Ancients find cure to the virus but it has side effect sterility(sp?)
Ancients put some of the uncured into statis hoping for a fix later
the rest of the Anicients work on bring about the humans of earth
Ancients discover that some of the humans have the gene marker
Ancients move the lost city to Pegasis with a number of humans
--------------------------5 - 1 million years ago----------------
Humans and a few Ancients inhabit Peguses only (only a few sub species exist on Earth)
Ancients/Humans awake the Wriath
Wriath destroy most of the Human settlements( but leave them to rebuild and repopulate)
____________________________1 - 0.5 million years ago-------------
The few Ancients that are left and some Humans fall back to Atlantis
Ancients sink the city; dial the Earth gate
Ancients lead humans back to earth in Antartica
The last of the Ancients Acsends( oma desala?)
The outpost on earth is lost and the gate is in a ice cave
humanity speads across the Earth...
-----------------------about 15000 years ago---------------------
The Goa'uld find Some Ancients' Tech and open the Stargate
The Gou'ald diiscover FTL travel, They form the System lords
The Gou'ald add Naquda to thier system
Sokar and Anubus become the most powerfull System Lords
Ra arives on Abydos with Unas to mine Naquda. ManyUnas die in the desert.
Ra becomes a minor system lord.
Ra finds the text about the Lost city
Ra discover the Adress to Earth
Ra suffers defeat and is wounded
Ra flees to earth, takes human host
Ra brings a Stargate to earth....
Tollan escape Ra and find a planet full of Ancient tech.
Ra use humans to overcome all other Goa'uld becomes 1st Supreme System Lord
The Jaffa come into being.
Asgard discover the Gou'ald
Gou'ald spread humans across the Gate adress they know
Aschen overthrow their false god with Ancient bio wepons
The sarcophagus are made
The Tok'ra come into exsitance
----------------------about 8,000---------------------------
Ra is beset by Goa'uld on earth(seth, Hathor,the Tok'ra....)
Humans rebell and bury the stargate of Ra
Reese is made by her Father, she makes the Replectors
Asgard set up Protected Planets...
Antartic gate opens up
Tok'ra Queen falls to Ra
Anubis Acsends somehow?
Replectors find Ancient's Puddle jumper and Zmp.... Dial Another Galaxies
Replectors wipe out the Furlings in their home galaxy
------------------------------about 5000 years ago-----------------
Oma Desala opens her mission on Keb...
Replectors make it to the Asgard Galaxy...
Goa'uld leave and found many worlds....
humanity fills the Milky Way...
----------------------------------140 years ago--------------------
Bra'tac is born
------------105 yaers ago
Teal'c is born
-----------------------------------------

The events of the Movie and SG1.....

The events of the Lost city and New order,
The events of Rising.....
-----------------------much more to come lol------------

Selmak
July 22nd, 2004, 12:27 AM
It's a nice theory but the most of your statements are not backed up by facts... if the Tok'ra queen(Egiria) falls to Ra 8000 years ago that would mean Selmak and all of the current Tok'ra were born before that... since the Tok'ra don't use sarcophaguses I though they only lived 200 years... how long can Tok'ra/Goa'uld live?

VirtualCLD
July 22nd, 2004, 06:38 AM
Also, quick question, how did the "human" jaffa end up forzen in ice near the Antarctic stargate?

aschen
July 22nd, 2004, 07:08 AM
Also, quick question, how did the "human" jaffa end up forzen in ice near the Antarctic stargate?

Excellent question. I never thought about that...

My guess is, is that the Goa'ulds were trying to dial out and accidentally hit a sun flare, causing a similar effect as in "Solitudes." :cool:

VirtualCLD
July 22nd, 2004, 07:11 AM
Very good point, although I thought, and could have thought wrong, sun flares caused time travel, gate power overloading caused "Solitudes."

aschen
July 22nd, 2004, 07:25 AM
>_< That's the one. My bad. :)

alaskannut
July 22nd, 2004, 05:10 PM
Hey brooks It...I was wondering if since you seem to like typing....could you post a synopsis of Rising and/or New Order at respective forums if it wouldnt be too much trouble...I'm working with a Fish and Wildlife research unit on the coastal plain of ANWR, dont get Scifi channel, and internet too spotty and slow for download...would very much appreciate. Also...like your theory its quite interesting and actually makes a bit of sense.

Paolo
July 25th, 2004, 05:56 PM
Just one question: seeding?

So the ancients, did they seed their own kind or Humans? Becuase im thinking, they certianly wouldnt follow the same evolutionary track as us in our Galaxy would they? I mean they would surley have evolved to try and combat the Wraith in some way. Maybe im delving in too deep without fully understanding here!

Paolo

VirtualCLD
July 25th, 2004, 06:05 PM
I would think that they seeded the Pegasus galaxy with human. They didn't know about the Wraith untill it was too late. By that time, it seemed like they stopped seeding and started fighting/defending. However, the Wraith consumed/took controll of all of the Ancient worlds with stargates until only Atlantis remained. After that, the Ancients fled back to Earth. Question is, did they seed Earth with humans before or after they left for Pegasus then returned to Earth.

220683
July 25th, 2004, 06:05 PM
They seeded humans, we are very much different, from the original Ancients. Why? We do not know. We know they are proficient at genetic engineering. So exactly how much potential we have remains to be seen.

aschen
July 25th, 2004, 06:11 PM
Yes we are, but only because of the human species's stunted evolution.

Using evolution here on Earth as canon, people who evolve in different parts of the world evolve in a different manner than those in other parts of the world.

The scale of this truth can only be amplified by living on another planet.

Aadizookaan
July 26th, 2004, 02:19 AM
Ancient’s History

N.B. I attempted only to utilize cannon from the series and there are a few assumptions in this history of the Ancients: 1. Ancients are the first evolutionary development of humans; 2. The 4 race alliance is made after the Ancients return from the Pegasus Galaxy; 3. Humans are the second evolution of the Ancients; 4. You all know what the heck I'm talking about.

The Ancients were here on Earth first: evolved and developed into a highly advanced race;

The Ancients develop the gate-network as well as other technology in our galaxy and begin to explore stumbling upon a couple of races similar to their own but not highly developed enough to interact with;

The Ancients head to the Pegasus Galaxy - leaving behind our little humanesque and soon to be frozen friend to guard the outpost, in very different clothing than in which the SGC found her;

The Ancients arrive in the Pegasus Galaxy, seed different worlds with "life and in time a thousand worlds bore life like our own";

The Ancients create the Stargate Network Version 2 and plant them around the Pegasus Galaxy, green lights and all;

The Ancients begin their study of non-corporeal life forms;

The Ancients step on a "world where they awake a dark enemy", were overconfident, outnumbered, and besieged;

The Ancients sink Atlantis and return to earth to live out the rest of their lives on the planet they called home, earth;

The Ancients begin to re-establish their empire in the Milky Way Galaxy and the 4 race Alliance is created with the Ancients, Nox, Asgard, and Furlings - with a base on "Ernest's Planet", with you know, the meaning of life stuff explained on a periodic table of elements;

A plague falls upon on the Ancients they build the time-thingy, but accept their fate while some Ancients learn how to ascend thus "leaving this region of space";

The Ascended Ancients become xeno-phobic and make laws regarding non-interference, et al;

The Asgard race begins to study humans and Gou’ald exploitation of our galaxy beings;

Supreme System Lord Ra discovers earth, Gou’ald use humans to re-establish themselves as a dominant species, the Gou’ald seed worlds with human life in our galaxy, Humans on earth rebel against the Gou’ald, Humans on Earth bury their Stargate, Humans on earth enter a dark age of knowledge, Other human worlds rebel against the Gou’ald and develop high level technology;

Earth rediscovers the Stargate a connection is made to another world and a human enters the wormhole not to be heard from until much later;

After a number of decades a young anthropologist discovers how to make it work properly and a mission to explore the galaxy begin on Abydos, O’Neill and Daniel kill Ra, the Stargate is decommissioned;

The Gou’ald Aphophis returns to earth, the Stargate and the Stargate Program is recommissioned;

SG1 encounter the Nox, one of the members of the 4 race alliance, but this information is not revealed to SG1;

SG1 with Catherine travel to "Ernest’s Planet" and discover the meeting place of the 4 race alliance and rescue Ernest the original gate traveller that was not heard from for decades;

O’Neill and Carter are stranded in Antarctica where the original Stargate is located, the SGC decides to study the gate and the Antarctic site;

O'Neill's head gets grabbed by an Ancient repository of knowledge ("the place of our legacy") and he begins to talk, walk, and think Ancient, O'Neill figures out how to get rid of the stuff in his head by contacting the Asgard with a ZPM of base design, the Asgard inform O’Neill of the 4 race alliance;

SG1 discover that the Stargate is capable of time travel when a solar flare intersects with the wormhole, something I might add the Ancients never found out;

Daniel meets Oma Desala on the Planet Kheb while searching for the Harsesis child;

SG1 gate to a world where they discover the Ancient time-thingy which does not work quite as it was intended;

The SGC makes contact with a world where Ancient monoliths are near by thus unleashing an entity which attempts to destroy earth;

Carter meets an Ascended Ancient named Orlin, he falls for her, she likes him, he builds a Stargate to stop the Ancient designed weapon he gave to another world from being used again;

Daniel ascends with Oma's Help;

SG1 wake up the lone humanesque and frozen Ancient. SG1 and the research team is infected with a virus much like spinal meningitis. The lone humanesque Ancient heals everyone, except Col. O'Neill, and she succumbs to the virus due to her low white blood cell count;

An ascended Daniel returns to assist O’Nell in his ascension, but O’Neill refuses so Daniel meddles and helps O’Neill get a fighting chance;

SG1 returns to earth with Ancient technology which allows the bridging of two parallel existences;

SG1 is taken to a Furling utopian world by Mayborne only to find out it is not very utopian at all;

Nurrti discovers the Ancient DNA machine to make a Hak’Taur and experiments on the inhabitants of the world where she made the discovery and SG1 with the assistance of the mutated indigenous people stop her;

The Ascended Daniel returns to help Teal’c endure his particular predicament;

The Ascended Daniel returns to earth to bring SG1 into the fight against Anubis to stop him from finding the Eye of Ra, he discovers that he is (now) an Ancient and informs SG1 that there is a Lost City where Ancient weapons are, he breaks the others' (aka Ascended Ancients) rules by trying to kill a quasi-ascended Anubis using his ascended powers and is kicked out of the club by his mentor Oma Desala, meanwhile she helps the people of Abydos ascend;

Daniel is found on Vis Uban, the supposed crown jewel of the returned Ancients’ Empire;

Daniel finds the Ancient healing device, which by the way is the basis for Gou’ald sarcophagus technology;

The SGC and the Tok’Ra develop a weapon utilizing the Ancient healing device for defence against Anubis’ uber-solders – the Kull Warriors;

O'Neill's head gets grabbed again, he saves the world using the Ancient outpost previously occupied by the lone humanesque, previously frozen, and now deceased Ancient;

Dr. Beckett figures out that an Ancient gene is needed to utilize key Ancient technology and Daniel uncovers where the supposed "Lost City or City of the Lost", now known as Atlantis, is located;

Humans arrive in the Pegasus Galaxy, wake up the Wraith, and seem besieged on Atlantis;

A non-corporeal and ascended Anubis returns to earth wreaking havoc until he escapes into a really, really, really, really, really ice cold world;

The Atlantis team is surprised to learn of the Ancient’s studying non-corporeal life forms when one is unleashed and threatens to "eat" all energy sources on Atlantis.

VirtualCLD
July 26th, 2004, 07:45 AM
I never really understood why Ancient is similar to Latin, becasue it doesn't make too much sense with the timeline. That would mean that the Ancients somehow influenced early Romans and that was only a couple thousand years ago.

thirdeyeblind105
July 26th, 2004, 07:58 AM
I never really understood why Ancient is similar to Latin, becasue it doesn't make too much sense with the timeline. That would mean that the Ancients somehow influenced early Romans and that was only a couple thousand years ago.


True, but the few ancients who came back to earth might have taught the romans latin thousands of years before they were a great empire. There also might be a connection between the romans as the builders of roads and the ancients as the builders of the stargates.

Anubis
July 26th, 2004, 08:01 AM
Just because it doesn't make sense, doesn't mean it doesn't suit. I think Ancient/Latin suits well

VirtualCLD
July 26th, 2004, 08:10 AM
I'm just thinking though, if they taught the Romans, then the Ancients had to be on Earth after the sealing of the stargate. Ra was around 10,000 years ago, a good 6-7 thousand years before the Romans. Question is, did the Ancients have contact with other races at this time?

brooks_lt
July 26th, 2004, 01:43 PM
I really like your theory it seems quite possible, and enjoyable as well, but where do u account for the ascending of the ancients and teh aasgard sayign they moved on form the galxy dont u think the would have contacted the asgard and ben like " yo get these snakes out of here, and help us rebuld rather than follow the natural progression. I really do like ur idea tho
The ancients who ascended did so before the ancients not affected by the plague left for Pegasus. Either that, or the ancients fled this galaxy to escape the plague and left those already affected by it behind and some of them eventually ascended. That's just my theory, but I hope that the writers of Atlantis or SG-1 examine this in more detail. We're getting a better picture, but it could be even clearer.

ecm101
July 27th, 2004, 02:09 PM
Also, quick question, how did the "human" jaffa end up forzen in ice near the Antarctic stargate?

It happened after the gaza gate was lost...

ecm101
July 27th, 2004, 02:18 PM
Here Is everything I have got so far.
Here I go
I think that the Ancients, Asgard, Nox, and Furllings had the allance well before the plague struck down the Ancients.
I don't think that the Ancients are from ancient Earth. I think that they moved there from somewhere(or when) else. I bases this on that there is no Naquda(sp?) in our solar system.

My time line......

Ancients come into being..(more on that later)...
Ancients (re)discover FTL travel
50-20 million years ago...
Ancients colonize and Terriform many plantes(including earth?)
Ancients find Naquda and start to use it
Ancients start to build Stargates(earth is one of the 1st-- see frozen S6 sg1)
Ancients venture into other galaxzies
Ancients start to find Nox, Asgard, Furlings
Ancients reach there form we meet in Frozen(fully realizing there physical and mental forms)
Ancients start to use Gene marker tech
Ancients build their Depositories of Knowelge
Ancients, Nox, Asgard, and Furlings form Four Races(i.e. 4r)
Ancients deliver 4r's stargate(including the asgard)
Ancients reach the end of Techonlogy in most areas-- They master the universe in almost everyway.
--------------------20 - 10 million years ago------------------
Wriath reach Ftl travel and start to feed on life across Peguses
4r meet at EARNEST planet and set up a history/science book
Asgard experiement with cloning
Ancients society start to fraction
Ancients Build gene maluplation machine(Metamorphosis)
Ancients build device found in EVOLUTION
Ancients make world found in ENTITY
Nox begin to withdrawl to home planet
Some Ancients start to build build wepons to use against each other
Ancients and Nox ended Formal reletions
Asgard gain hyper-drive tech that allows them to slowly goto other galaxies
Ancients start civil war
Wriath hiberanter after kill all other life in Peguises galaxy
Ancients start on the path to Acsenction...
many Anciets die in civil war some Ascend...
Asgard and Furlings enter war with Ancients
Nox host Peace summit on Earnest Planet
-------------------10 million years ago--------------------
Ancients on the world that later becomes the Aschen home world
make a doomsday virus it is not released until later....
Ancients civil war ends
4r reform
Development of hominid bipedalism on Earth help by Ancients
Goa'uld and Unas evlove
Ancient buid Atlantis as a sysbol of unity
-------------------5 million years ago--------------
Doomdays Virus released by acciendent
Many ancients start to die...and most try to ascend
4r fall apart as Ancients leave or die off......
Goa'uld take Unas as host
___________________still around 5 million years______________________
Ancients numbers cut in half.
Ancients find cure to the virus but it has side effect sterility(sp?)
Ancients put some of the uncured into statis hoping for a fix later
the rest of the Anicients work on bring about the humans of earth
Ancients discover that some of the humans have the gene marker
Ancients move the lost city to Pegasis with a number of humans
--------------------------5 - 1 million years ago----------------
Humans and a few Ancients inhabit Peguses only (only a few sub species exist on Earth)
Ancients/Humans awake the Wriath
Wriath destroy most of the Human settlements( but leave them to rebuild and repopulate)
____________________________1 - 0.5 million years ago-------------
The few Ancients that are left and some Humans fall back to Atlantis
Ancients sink the city; dial the Earth gate
Ancients lead humans back to earth in Antartica
The last of the Ancients Acsends( oma desala?)
The outpost on earth is lost and the gate is in a ice cave
humanity speads across the Earth...
-----------------------about 15000 years ago---------------------
The Goa'uld find Some Ancients' Tech and open the Stargate
The Gou'ald diiscover FTL travel, They form the System lords
The Gou'ald add Naquda to thier system
Sokar and Anubus become the most powerfull System Lords
Ra arives on Abydos with Unas to mine Naquda. ManyUnas die in the desert.
Ra becomes a minor system lord.
Ra finds the text about the Lost city
Ra discover the Adress to Earth
Ra suffers defeat and is wounded
Ra flees to earth, takes human host
Ra brings a Stargate to earth....
Tollan escape Ra and find a planet full of Ancient tech.
Ra use humans to overcome all other Goa'uld becomes 1st Supreme System Lord
The Jaffa come into being.
Asgard discover the Gou'ald
Gou'ald spread humans across the Gate adress they know
Aschen overthrow their false god with Ancient bio wepons
The sarcophagus are made
The Tok'ra come into exsitance
----------------------about 8,000---------------------------
Ra is beset by Goa'uld on earth(seth, Hathor,the Tok'ra....)
Humans rebell and bury the stargate of Ra
Reese is made by her Father, she makes the Replectors
Asgard set up Protected Planets...
Antartic gate opens up
Tok'ra Queen falls to Ra
Anubis Acsends somehow?
Replectors find Ancient's Puddle jumper and Zmp.... Dial Another Galaxies
Replectors wipe out the Furlings in their home galaxy
------------------------------about 5000 years ago-----------------
Oma Desala opens her mission on Keb...
Replectors make it to the Asgard Galaxy...
Goa'uld leave and found many worlds....
humanity fills the Milky Way...
----------------------------------140 years ago--------------------
Bra'tac is born
------------105 yaers ago
Teal'c is born
-----------------------------------------

The events of the Movie and SG1.....

The events of the Lost city and New order,
The events of Rising.....
-----------------------much more to come lol------------


Many years and centries later.....
Humans reach the level of the Ancients.
Humans ascend and meet the Ancients
Some choose to fall The choose to fall, But they do so in the ancient past....
the Fallen Humans begcome the Ancients....

TST
July 27th, 2004, 02:50 PM
I particularly like brooks_ITs idea, but I think it could be taken further (only read the first page, so bear with me if this has been said)...
What if they didn't just interbreed to pass on the marker, but also gave humanity it's lust for war?
They may have intervened and steered humanity's development, so that we would eventually reach Atlantis and defeat the Wraith, us being a more warlike species than the Ancients, but with (some of) their technology at our disposal?
Just a thought...

Mio
July 27th, 2004, 03:02 PM
I don't think the other 3 races are as old as they are portrayed by that time line. I would guess than the Nox and asgard are under 500 thousand years old....significantly under...I think the Nox are older than the asgard.

Well, maybe the furlings could be that old. We don't really know.

aschen
July 27th, 2004, 04:14 PM
I don't think the other 3 races are as old as they are portrayed by that time line. I would guess than the Nox and asgard are under 500 thousand years old....significantly under...I think the Nox are older than the asgard.

Well, maybe the furlings could be that old. We don't really know.
The Ancients really were rather ancient. ;) I concur with the observation that the Nox are older than the Asgard. They seem to have surpassed the war faring period a species must go through. I think the Nox's pacificism is a testament to their age and wisdom.

220683
July 27th, 2004, 04:26 PM
I always wondered, the Nox is in the alliance for awhile. Did the Asgard ever ask the Nox to help with oh..say the small matter of destruction of the Asgard civilization or that little cloning problem they have?

Mio
July 27th, 2004, 07:34 PM
I always wondered, the Nox is in the alliance for awhile. Did the Asgard ever ask the Nox to help with oh..say the small matter of destruction of the Asgard civilization or that little cloning problem they have?

Maybe the Nox broke off all ties with the asgard after they caught them with an experimental robotic fly swatter?

aAnubiSs
July 27th, 2004, 07:48 PM
Nice to see this topic active again.

chris_h
August 2nd, 2004, 05:53 PM
Hello all! I'm new here. I've lurked some, and I finally felt I'd "break open" to talk about this post.
This is where things get interesting. I'm guessing that they returned to Earth right around the time the time Ra was big here, and the Antarctic gate has already been buried. Imagine their surprise when the emerge through the gate expecting to see their outpost but instead find themselves inside a Pyramid in Egypt. Once they realize what is going on, they incite the humans to rebel against the Goa'uld, providing minimal material assistance. Interesting idea, but it goes against canon. The first-season episode "Fire and Water" implies that an Oannes (amphibious Swamp Thing-like creature) named Omoroca planted the seeds of rebellion, and for it was killed by the Goa'uld Belus.

VirtualCLD
August 6th, 2004, 10:22 AM
Well, there is still a long way to go before Sanctuary airs, but those who have been following the spoilers, does anyone think we'll find out more about the Ancients' history in the Pegasus Galaxy?

(Don't forget spoiler space where apropriate, the show hasn't aired yet)

aschen
August 6th, 2004, 12:10 PM
Well, there is still a long way to go before Sanctuary airs, but those who have been following the spoilers, does anyone think we'll find out more about the Ancients' history in the Pegasus Galaxy?

(Don't forget spoiler space where apropriate, the show hasn't aired yet)
Dude...STOP WITH THE SPOILER STUFF...PLEASE.. I'm getting a headache! :(

Moving on... If "Sanctuary" is anything to go by, then sure. There should be a rather large some of Ancients sittin' around, or at least a part of their written history. In fact, I'm willing to be their entire history is on Altantis's computers- they just need to know where to look. Although biased, us modern (lol, do you feel the irony in that description?) catalog everything that has occured in our own history. I can deem it only but a sure thing that there is a written record of our ancestor's evolution

Daxs
August 9th, 2004, 10:13 AM
As people have pointed out from time to time, it's quite possible that the disease Ayiana had wasn't the same disease that plagued the Ancients. Considering it wasn't affecting her, it's possible it was just another disease that to the Ancients wasn't anything, while to us, it was a deadly plague (like the diseases Europeans brought to America) On the other side, she could have been a carrier (infected but not affected). Preferably I'd like it to just be some minor disease, as that disease being the plague just feels kind of lame to me.



I am getting a Strong Anti European Vibe here. I'm not liking it one bit.

DAXS

aschen
August 9th, 2004, 10:27 AM
No strong Anti-Euro vibe dude. Relax. =) Europe kix butt! Socialized medicine, white chicks, a rich and beautiful culture...ooo yeah. :D

aAnubiSs
August 9th, 2004, 12:21 PM
I'm rich and beautiful! (Ok, I lied about the second part)... No hot white chicks in my room though ;(

mavrick1028
August 19th, 2004, 01:56 PM
In my theroy the anchients were very smart and the wanted to keep the human race around for all time. Once they were advanced enough they began to seed other galexies so the human race would grow. They left the stargate on those planets so the humans of those worlds could trade and learn form eachother. The anchients would move from galexy seeding other galexies. When they encounterd the wraith they were overrun. They still were not wiped out by the wraith. After fighting for a wile the wraith realized that they could not defeat the ancients in a allout war. So the wraith devolped the plege and forced the ancients to retreat back to earth ware they knew that the wraith could not reach them. When the got back to the milkey way they devoloped various ways to try to save themselves from the wraith. Like the time machine and other wepons. Finally the realized the were beaten and created the reposotory of knolage. Then when the humans of the worlds they seeded reached a certian point they could look into it and gain all of the ancients knolage and pick up ware the ancients left off. After the ancients finished preseving there races knolage they were forced to then assend.

LordAnubis
August 20th, 2004, 10:31 PM
I'm not going to supply spoiler space b/c the title gives ample warning. Here's my theory. The Ancients were decimated by a Plague in this galaxy somewhere around 6 million years ago. As all illnesses seem to go, a small portion of the Ancient population was immune to the disease, others were simply carriers, and the remaining were either killed or learned to ascend. Once their numbers in this galaxy were decimated by the effects of the plague, they decided to pack up and try something new, but before this they already had contact with the three most promising races in the galaxy (all of which, I think, were evolutionary threads from the original seeding of our galaxy by the ancients). The most advanced of these was probably the Nox, followed up by the Asgard (way behind the Ancients and the Nox), and finally the Furlings. Sure, we've learned that the Asgard have only had FTL ships for 30,000 years, but before that they still could have been advanced to the point of using the Stargates to travel and interact with Ancients and the other three great races on Ernest's planet. However, when the plague hit, the Ancients cut off all contact with the other races, so as not to pass it on to them. Some, probably a small sect, of the Ancients learned to ascend, likely led by Oma Desala, and passed that information on to as many as they could, likely the ones dying from the plague. However, some of the Ancients probably didn't want to give up their corporeal forms and those who were naturally immune to the plague decided to pack up Atlantis and head out to the Pegasus galaxy to start over, leaving behind a handful of outposts here in the Milky Way in case they ever needed to return.

Well, fast forward a few million years from the departure of Atlantis from our Galaxy, and the Ancients haven't returned because things are going so well in Pegasus. Thousands of planets have thriving human civilizations and populations, not quite as advanced as the Alliance of the four races in the Milky Way, but things look promising. Then, one day, Ancient scientists stumble upon a ringed planet that seems capable of supporting life. The land and to their surprise detect traces of life. They go to investigate, and what do they find but the Wraith. One or two of the Ancients are captured and the Wraith like the new food that's stumbled across their door, having long ago eliminated most life in their galaxy by over-feeding. This time around, the Ancients have provided them with an ample supply of food, and they begin striking human worlds in Pegasus. The Ancients try to stop them, but are overcome by sheer numbers. Remember, they haven't fought anyone or anything for several million years; their tactical skill were likely a bit lacking. The Wraith technology isn't advanced enough to penetrate the defenses of Atlantis, but they can't remain there forever, because the will eventually run out of power and can't gate anywhere to get the materials necessary to fabricate a ZPM. So, they sink the city and gate back to Earth.

This is where things get interesting. I'm guessing that they returned to Earth right around the time the time Ra was big here, and the Antarctic gate has already been buried. Imagine their surprise when the emerge through the gate expecting to see their outpost but instead find themselves inside a Pyramid in Egypt. Once they realize what is going on, they incite the humans to rebel against the Goa'uld, providing minimal material assistance. In order to prevent them from returning, the Ancients tell the humans to bury the Stargate. You see, the Ancients don't want the Goa'uld on Earth because they could discover the Outpost and the weapons it contains. With the gate buried, the homeless Ancients have no choice but to join in with the various peoples of the Mediterranean area, some probably remaining in Egypt, others moving on to Greece, interbreeding with the local population to ensure that their important genetic markers are passed on to future generations that may one day be able to return to Atlantis and liberate the Pegasus galaxy from the Wraith. To that end, the remaining Ancients plant the seeds of civilization in that region of the world, teaching elementary scientific and mathematical principles. That brings us full circle to the present universe of Stargate: SG-1 and Stargate: Atlantis, where the descendants of those Ancients and early humans (people like O' Neill, Shepherd, Beckett, and others) have discovered the Ancient outpost in Antarctica and made their way back to Atlantis. Only time will tell if they succeed in defeating the Wraith. It is important to note that the Wraith likely find themselves in a weakened state. They probably learned from their initial elimination of life from the Pegasus galaxy and do more to conserve their human herds, but they still must sleep to give the human populations time to grow. Also, they probably wouldn't have advanced much beyond where they were when the Ancients arrived, as they had no need and likely sleep for hundred, if not thousands of years at a time between feedings.

As a side note to this entire discussion, I'd like to revisit the idea that the other three great races were all results of the Ancients efforts to seed human life in the galaxy. We know that the Asgard were once much like us, and depending on environmental variables, the differences could probably be explained. The Nox are also similar. We have yet to see the furlings, but I'd guess that they're humanoid as well. This would also provide a much better explanation of groups like the Aschen and the Tollan. They are simply races of humans that have developed more slowly or were seeded later by the Ancients, and were not taken from Earth, as has been theorized up to this point. Instead, they probably developed in parallel with the humans of Earth until the Dark Ages, when we fell behind. If you don't like this exact theory, I do have a variation. In it, the Asgard, Nox and Furlings were early experiments in creating life that wasn't genetically and physiologically identical to the Ancients. Well, that's it for now, and I hope to read what you all have to say about my ideas. :cool:
That is an excellent analysis. I agree with your interpretation with one exception: I don't think the Asgard/Furling/Ancient/Nox alliance took place millions of years ago, but hundreds of thousdands of years ago. Just my guess, but I really enjoyed your theory! Great job dude!

LordAnubis
August 20th, 2004, 10:32 PM
It's to long and wordy... How about a summary... with bullet points.
It was not that long and it was some of the best reading on this forum! If you don't wanna read his post, then don't!

LordAnubis
August 20th, 2004, 10:37 PM
Next

--------------------20 - 10 million years ago------------------
Wriath reach Ftl travel and start to feed on life across Peguses
4r meet at EARNEST planet and set up a history/science book
Asgard experiement with cloning
Ancients society start to fraction
Ancients Build gene maluplation machine(Metamorphosis)
Ancients build device found in EVOLUTION
Ancients make world found in ENTITY
Nox begin to withdrawl to home planet
Some Ancients start to build build wepons to use against each other
Ancients and Nox ended Formal reletions
Asgard gain hyper-drive tech that allows them to slowly goto other galaxies
Ancients start civil war
Wriath hiberanter after kill all other life in Peguises galaxy
Ancients start on the path to Acsenction...
many Anciets die in civil war some Ascend...
Asgard and Furlings enter war with Ancients
Nox host Peace summit on Earnest Planet
-------------------10 million years ago--------------------
Ancients on the world that later becomes the Aschen home world
make a doomsday virus it is not released until later....
Ancients civil war ends
4r reform
Development of hominid bipedalism on Earth help by Ancients
Goa'uld and Unas evlove
Ancient buid Atlantis as a sysbol of unity
-------------------5 million years ago--------------
Doomdays Virus released by acciendent
Many ancients start to die...and most try to ascend
4r fall apart as Ancients leave or die off......
Goa'uld take Unas as host
----------more to come-------------------
1) bad spelling
2) pure speculation about timelines
3) many assumptions unsupported by SG-1 and SG-A plots

Your theory and timeline is vastly inferior to brooks_lt's and lugal's. You should look at their theories again.

LordAnubis
August 20th, 2004, 10:39 PM
It's a good theory, got me thinking and here's mine.

S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S

The Ancients evolved on Earth (Like Beckett says, "We're the second evolution of this form") possibly as early as 30 million years ago. They spread out and explored the galaxy, and accumulated a vast degree of knowledge. Eventually about five to ten million years ago the plague hit, wiping out much of the Ancients, a few learned to Ascend and a few survived in isolated pockets. Eventually after much of the race was gone, they may have found a cure leaving a few isolated survivors. Some tried to find a new life going to the Pegasus galaxy and the ones that stayed formed the allience with the Furlings, Nox, and Asgard.

Meanwhile in the Pegasus Galaxy the Wraith evolved and consumed all life and started starving to death and they went into hibernation. Then the Ancients came to an apparently lifeless galaxy and started seeding it, and woke up the Wraith like the Holo-lady said. They were not prepared to fight them and the Wraith wore them down so eventually the few survivors of Atlantis returned to earth and mixed with the population to spread the genes.

And while Atlantis was busy in Pegasus, here the Allience was going fine as the Goa'uld started making their presence known. For unknown reasons the Alliance dissolved, the remaining Ancients may have ascended, the Nox took up on the forest planet, the Asgard had their own genetic problems and the Furlings well, :confused:

After that the Goa'uld were relatively unopposed and began to dominate the galaxy, and they discovered earth and started taking humans from all over to be slaves and hosts. Then the Tauri rediscovered the gate and have started exploring the universe.
I like your theory too. Like you, and Beckett, I agree that the Ancients evolved here on Earth millions of years ago. So many gateworlders seem to think they evolved elsewhere, but the facts seem to point to the Ancients evolving on Earth.

LordAnubis
August 20th, 2004, 10:45 PM
Here's my two cents-

Between 5 and 10 million years ago, the Ancients decided to leave Earth and spread life to other galaxies. Some ancients decided to stay behind. Atlantis arrived in the Pegasus galaxy, and they started to put new versions of the stargate and primitive forms of themselves on planets, as a huge science experiment. They soon met the Wraith and a war began. The Wraith were winning because they out numbered the Ancients. The Ancients invented the healing device to counteract the Wraith life drain. The Wraith unleashed a virus and the Ancients knowing they lost, sunk Atlantis and gated back to Earth. The virus soon began to affect the Ancients on Earth. The Ancients contained the virus though a massive quarantine, and preserved it for study.

Millions of years later, the virus was forgotten and Ancients enter an alliance with the Nox and Furlings; later on the Asgard joined the alliance about thirty thousand years ago. Between 12,000and 15,000, the virus was reopened and ancients unprepared could not stop it again. So, they try to go back in time to stop the recent outbreak of the virus. Time travel didn't work, so some ancients accepted their fate and others figured out how to ascend. A few ancients survived the virus and decided to live out their in isolation on Earth, guiding us humans. The Nox, Furlings, and Asgard went their separated ways and the galaxy fell into a dark age.

About 11,000 years ago the Goa'uld figured out how to use the stargate system and began their rise to power. 10,000 thousand years ago Ra stumbled upon Earth and told the other Goa'ulds and humans were started to be used as hosts. The Goa'uld also spreaded humans throughout the galaxy and enslaved them. The surviving Ancients had no technology to stop the Goa'uld and the outpost was too far away. So they rallied the humans together to rebel against the Goa'uld and the gate in Egypt was buried. The surviving ancients soon died out.
I think this has some serious flaws in it. First, you keep saying MILLIONS of years in several places. The Ancients stayed in Pegasus a long time before they gated back to Earth. I don't think the Wraith invented the virus or plague, but if they did, it would have killed the Ancients off in Pegasus, not MW, where some of them remained.

Also, they didn't forget about the virus/plague, they either died, ascended, or were immune and blended into "regular" human societies here or abroad.

The Goa'uld developed technology and rose to power before 10,000 years. Lord Yu, Lord Anubis, and Lord Ra were all more than 10,000 years old. Ra ruled on Earth more than 10,000 years -- at least 12,000 or more.

pjrocko2003
January 27th, 2005, 09:31 AM
in that case where did they find the Naqrudah because it dosen't appear naturalaly on earth to built the stargates?

Wass
January 27th, 2005, 09:56 AM
in that case where did they find the Naqrudah because it dosen't appear naturalaly on earth to built the stargates?

The Naqrudah has been found on many planets in the MW the ancients could have brought it back to earth or built the stargates on the same planet. Once the stargate were completed they started placing them through out the MW.

SGAncient 1
February 6th, 2005, 02:10 PM
I think the Plague threatened both Ancients and Furlings. The Ancients Solution was to Ascend and the Furlings Solution was to create a Biological organism that would enhance there bodies immunity systems. because of this plagues complexity the symbiote would have to be able to sense all activity of the plague within the body and be controlled by use of the brain. it would also have to be intellegent in order to fight such a plague thus it was preprogamed or the knowledge was passed from its creator a main queen symbiote for mass production.

Matthew D
March 6th, 2005, 03:27 PM
As people have pointed out from time to time, it's quite possible that the disease Ayiana had wasn't the same disease that plagued the Ancients. Considering it wasn't affecting her, it's possible it was just another disease that to the Ancients wasn't anything, while to us, it was a deadly plague (like the diseases Europeans brought to America) On the other side, she could have been a carrier (infected but not affected). Preferably I'd like it to just be some minor disease, as that disease being the plague just feels kind of lame to me.

see that was what I have been thinking. Being frozen for that amount of time had to wreck hell on the entire body, super system or not. So that might have left her weaken enough to have contracted something common to us... there has been evolution of microbes in the last 10,000 years... just a thought on my part

sanshunihilist
March 13th, 2005, 06:15 PM
I think the Plague threatened both Ancients and Furlings. The Ancients Solution was to Ascend and the Furlings Solution was to create a Biological organism that would enhance there bodies immunity systems. because of this plagues complexity the symbiote would have to be able to sense all activity of the plague within the body and be controlled by use of the brain. it would also have to be intellegent in order to fight such a plague thus it was preprogamed or the knowledge was passed from its creator a main queen symbiote for mass production.

That's a cool theory. Each race contributing to the growth of their own enemies, Asgard-Replicators, Ancients-Wraith, and Furlings~Go'auld. Maybe, the Nox were the only 'innocent' ones that didn't tamper with the forces of the universe.

Natron
March 27th, 2005, 10:34 PM
So, a couple things:

1) How long was Ra here? The Ancients returned to Earth 10,000 years ago, and the overthrow of Ra took place 5,000 years ago. If Ra's reign here was over 5,000 years, then the Ancients would have gated into Ancient Egypt, where I would assume they were stuck, and possibly would have been forced to integrate into human society. Although it seems odd for the Ancients to return to Earth only to live out "normal" lives without all of their technology.

Obviously the Ancients were able to travel to other worlds, as is implied with Janus building a second time ship in the Milky Way galaxy.

I prefer to think, however, that when the Ancients returned to Earth, Ra was not here yet, but that would mean they would gate into Antarctica. That doesn't seem like the best place to gate in, does it?

How did the Antarctic stargate end up in the ice? I assume the ice formed around it over the next few millenia. However, just 10,000 years before(when the Ancients returned) we find the second gate in Solitudes, the Antarctic gate would already be in ice. Even 10,000 years ago Antarctica was covered in ice, so I'm a little confused by that whole deal.

Perhaps the Ancients gated into the Antarctic outpost, and then moved on to the planet Vis Uban ("Fallen") to continue on. Maybe a second city was stationed here, Avalon, and this could have been where they learned to ascend. Maybe they had ships there (or on Earth) that they used to continue through the galaxy. Or perhaps the Ancients stayed on Earth, and mixed with human society (introducing the Ancient gene, since this had to happen at some point, even if the Ancients left Earth for a time), and then learned to Ascend on Earth at a place called Avalon.

Maybe the Ancients hid the Antarctic stargate when they learned of the threat of the Goa'uld, upon their return from Atlantis. If this is true, the ships I mentioned above might have been necessary. Hiding the gate would also lend credence towards Earth being the original homeworld of the Ancients, since that could prove they were trying to protect it. I'm going to assume the Goa'uld ascend BEFORE Ra arrives on Earth, therefore they couldn't interfere when he did.

2) My guess is that the the plague happened after the Ancients returned from Atlantis. (They were still studying Ascension when they left.) I also think the 4 race alliance was formed after their return to our galaxy, in part due to the threat of the Goa'uld. My guess is that the alliance was also formed, in part, so they ancients could pass on their legacy before the plague wiped them out, or they could ascend. They also did this with the repositories of knowledge.

In an attempt to sum this up:
--3+ million years ago: The Ancients seed life in our galaxy (Milky Way)
--3 million years ago: The Ancients (or at least some) leave with Atlantis for the Pegasus galaxy. The Ancients seed life there.
--10,000 years ago: The Ancients return to Earth.
--?????: After returning, the Ancients discover the Goa'uld, they hide the Antarctic stargate to protect Earth.
--?????: A plague infects the Ancients.
--?????: The Ancients form an alliance with 3 advanced races in an attempt to pass on their legacy.
--?????: To pass on the ability to use their technology, the Ancients pass on the Ancient gene.
--?????: The Ancients ascend.
--?????: Ra arrives on Earth.
--5,000 years ago: Uprising in ancient Egypt, Ra leaves.

3) I just re-read information on "Frozen" and they estimated Ayiana to be over 3 million years old, which means Atlantis would have left 3 million years ago, BEFORE Antarctica was covered in ice, right?, but it is clearly covered in ice at the beginning of Rising.

ancient_phoenix
March 29th, 2005, 05:48 PM
So did the plague only affect ancients or ancients and humans?
Because I thought the ancients died a couple of million years ago.

Kiech Bepho
March 30th, 2005, 08:26 AM
Well at least now we can be fairly confident that the Ancients had nothing to do with fighting the Snakes on Earth.

SG Zero
April 9th, 2005, 07:40 AM
From the most recent episodes of SG1, it was said the machine found on the planet the Jaffa worship brought life back after the plague when Oma commented on the irony of the use of the machine to destroy life. The Ancients only had distributed stargates on their controlled or allied planets in habited or not. With the immenent plague destroying most life in the galaxy probably transmitted through their stargate system, they created the device to restore all life (and I'm assuming cure the plague) and transmit the signal through the stargate. Unfortunately, I have no guess for the time of all this, but I have a few off the wall theories... For example, the machine was meant to restore life, in particullarly Ancient life, but they were made humans instead and the already passed Ancients became humans. Those that happen to survive the plague were cured and dispersed the gene. I am going to as far to say that when they were revived, they were de-evolved from Ancients to being human again, meaning that humans are a lesser version of Ancients. Which may explain why they are so fascinated and resemble humans. At that point, much of society had probably crumbled and the rerisen Ancients had lost much of their memories and their ability to use Ancient technology. Since they were no longer Ancients, they were forced to restart and the Ancients probably saw no reason to aid them anymore than they should figuring they were a new species and didn't want to interfere since they wanted to study evolution (maybe their own). This is probably when the Goa'uld hoped into a human... but thats for a different forum.

Then there's the theory that the Goa'uld could have been considered the plague... but that seems far fetched since even now they aren't a threat to Ancient technology, save Anubis for obvious reasons.

On a separate note, there's no way the alliance was meant to fight off the Goa'uld. It was probably necessary to keep each the 5 from fighting with each other. I believe there are still probably Ancients out there since they had to have colonated or contacted more than 2-3 galaxies because the Asgard have a stargate. So there maybe more Ancients out there in a separate galaxy, but that's another spin off series.

jonno
June 9th, 2005, 07:11 PM
I don't think the disease Ayiana had was the plague, in fact it can't be. They said she would have healed perfectly if she was given time to rest and rejuvenate, but instead, she sacrificed herself by using the last of her strength to cure the rest of SG-1 and the people working at the excavation dig. If she would have been fine on her own, then the disease she had couldn't possibly wipe out the Ancients if their immune system could keep it at bay.[/QUOTE]

I saw this episode today, and at the very end, they said somthing about her being able to promote an immune response in us, but not herself, and that she "may have been living on borrowed time from the start". I might be wrong, and it may be that her immune response had been sufficiently weakened in healing the others, but sh edefinitely succumbed to the disease, and it is possible that she was carrying the plague.

I apologise if this has been said before, i haven't looked through the whole thread.

AiYaFongLuh
June 15th, 2005, 10:13 AM
Could someone please list all the episodes(SG1 & SGA) where we have learnt something of the Ancients. Thanks.