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GateWorld
January 2nd, 2006, 07:53 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s2/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/215.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px solid black" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">GALACTICA SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s2/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">SCAR</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 215</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
The Colonial fleet is plagued by a mad Cylon raider, a living ship that continues to assault the fleet with hit-and-run attacks.

<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s2/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
February 3rd, 2006, 07:54 PM
It was a good ep. I give it a ** 1/2. I personally liked Scar, it was a cool looking ship.

kharn the betrayer
February 3rd, 2006, 08:02 PM
far better than last weeks

Scar was interesting

absolutly loved the part with Boomer and Kara and the scene at the end with Helo and Kara sparring..


I missed Baltar though...and now im curious to know what he was doing at that moment of time

yaaayoubetcha
February 3rd, 2006, 08:02 PM
although there were not that many similarities, it still reminded me of the Space Above and Beyond ep 'Angriest Angel'.

i'm tired of my shows this season doing the whole intro and then going 48hrs before or 96 hrs before or whatever before...

i thought it was pretty good. found Kat being antagonistic rather annoying...which was the point i suppose.

x_sid
February 3rd, 2006, 08:23 PM
Yeah I thought the episode was ok, but I'm getting a little tired of the flashback thing too. Hopefully one of these days we'll get back to kicking cylon butt.

Jonas
February 3rd, 2006, 08:32 PM
I thought this episode was very good. It was great to see Starbuck again, as she's been sidelined a bit the past few eps. Also great to see her get some Character development as well. Loved the scene of her and Sharon. Also nice to see her friendship with Helo. I wonder if she ever will get back to Caprica for Anders or not. Also it was nice to see the memorial walls again, which we havent seen since season 1. I also have to agree, I'm getting tired of the flashback thing. Yeah it works on Lost, cause it them Before they were on the island, but I like my shows to be linear. Not saying I dont like flashbacks, but not every week.

kharn the betrayer
February 3rd, 2006, 08:46 PM
found Kat being antagonistic rather annoying...

iv found Kat to be annoying for just about the entire season and wish they would tone her down

ArthurKing
February 3rd, 2006, 09:49 PM
I guess the question I'm interested in: Did this episode live up to your expectations? I haven't seen it yet, so I can't weigh in, but, from talk on the other board and from my general knowledge of the plot, it seems like this episode has (?had?) the potential to be EXCELLENT, if it correctly takes advantage of some very powerful and universal themes (two great warriors faced against one another, the challenge of a skilled up and comer going against an established 'legendary', the question of 'have I lost a step?', etc. etc.)

:) clearly, my expectations are high. Hope they pull it off. Did they do it for you?

Elwe Singollo
February 3rd, 2006, 09:57 PM
I really did not like how Kat seemed (i say seemed, because there was no mention of Starbuck helping by her when she was telling her to fill her cup) to take all the glory when there was that little 'i killed scar' party.

NotAscended
February 3rd, 2006, 10:48 PM
A rather jarring episode; found it hard to keep the story straight with cutting so much back and forth to the flashbacks. Q: did Kat put a picture of herself up on the memorial board after her fight with Kara and before going out on the last mission? If so, it really shows how much she is really starting to think of herself as already gone. It just seems like all the viper pilots (esp. Lee and Kara) are starting to behave as if they already have one foot in the grave.

Elwe Singollo
February 3rd, 2006, 11:08 PM
Lee didn't seem to depressed like he was last episode. Oh yes, i also LOVED :thor: Kara and Sharon. I felt a bit sad for Sharon (ok, i ton of sad).

LoneStar1836
February 3rd, 2006, 11:08 PM
Q: did Kat put a picture of herself up on the memorial board after her fight with Kara and before going out on the last mission? If so, it really shows how much she is really starting to think of herself as already gone. It just seems like all the viper pilots (esp. Lee and Kara) are starting to behave as if they already have one foot in the grave.That was the pic of that dead pilot's girlfriend that no one could remember the name of.



About the new tidbit of info offered up about the Raiders......I wonder if it’s like a collective download. Sharon’s discussion with Starbuck seemed to imply that the one Raider is reborn time after time and thus becomes a more skilled fighter, but you’d think that the knowledge gained by that one Raider would be more useful if it were distributed as a download to all the other Raiders within range of the Resurrection ship.

There has to be some mechanism for Cylons to upload information from other Cylon models like themselves. Caprica Boomer seemed to have had the same knowledge and memories of Galactica Boomer before Galactica Boomer was killed.

If all the Raiders could upload the experience of all the other Raiders that have been taken out, it would make them one heck of a formidable enemy. Hmm....maybe that’s why they would avoid writing that as a possibility. The odd are already stacked against the fleet. Making all the other Raiders as skilled as Scar would deplete Galactica’s and Pegasus’s pilots unless they could all turn into super pilots overnight, which is pretty unrealistic.


Anyway.....good episode. Didn’t blow me away from beginning to end, but it did have some excellent character moments. Favs were that last bit with Kara and Helo at the end (more Kara/Helo scenes please...I like the relationship as close friends those two characters have) and the Kara/Lee drinking scene. Oh yeah and the Sharon/Kara one as well.

The praise at the end for Kat didn’t bother me so much. I’m sure people know how it went down and that even though Starbuck didn’t get the kill, she got the assist. Kat did have some good points earlier in the episode about Kara’s behavior. (Course Kat still grates on my nerves. :D) Nice touch at the end with Kara naming off most of the deceased pilots even though she pretended not to remember any of them earlier in that scene with Lee.

Oka
February 4th, 2006, 12:16 AM
I thought this episode was really good. Cool space fights, good interaction between the actors, lots of drinking.... I'll agree that the flashback thing is getting a little old, but at the end it didn't really bother me.

(and yeah it did sort of remind me of the SAAB ep: "The Angriest Angel", don't know if that was intentional or not though because it wasn't THAT much like it).

skrip00
February 4th, 2006, 12:29 AM
I loved Kat this episode...

About time Starbuck got someone who can compete with her. But shes also a good pilot, looking out for herself and others. But also tough. Kinda like a cross between Lee and Starbuck.

Also, its good to see she's off stims and being a better pilot than ever before.

CrazySac
February 4th, 2006, 02:08 AM
Kat was truely annoying , I wonder if they will figure a way to scoop up some of those people left on the colonies later on down the line.
The question that is bothering me is who in sam hell is running the Pegasus , I figured Tigh would take the roll but since he was on Galactica . I doubt they would wanna bump up someone from Pegasus to be capt considering they lost there capt and there second in command.

Blade Runner
February 4th, 2006, 04:07 AM
(and yeah it did sort of remind me of the SAAB ep: "The Angriest Angel", don't know if that was intentional or not though because it wasn't THAT much like it).

Like they said, it's war, you are there to kill your enemy anyway you can, just refecting the reality of figher pilots in WWII. The Red Baron Etc

foxhound22
February 4th, 2006, 05:53 AM
I really enjoyed this episode. Some pretty pivotal moments occured here. The Lee - Kara encounter...., The mention of how they were going to replenish their supply of vipers. I thought this episode was great. I would rank it up in my top 5 favorites. But my favorites are the ones with a lot of viper scenes and military drama as opposed to the political drama.

Something that did hit me though, was the parallels between the Kara / Kat drama and the Kara / Tigh drama. Lots of things said that have been said before.

One other thing that really ticked me off about Kat was her calling Kara out in front of all the subordinates. Any military people in here may have been a little shocked by this as well. I was half expecting Kara to throw Kat in the brig for insubordination. She had plenty of instances.

somedude
February 4th, 2006, 06:44 AM
I really enjoyed this episode. Some pretty pivotal moments occured here. The Lee - Kara encounter...., The mention of how they were going to replenish their supply of vipers. I thought this episode was great. I would rank it up in my top 5 favorites. But my favorites are the ones with a lot of viper scenes and military drama as opposed to the political drama.

Something that did hit me though, was the parallels between the Kara / Kat drama and the Kara / Tigh drama. Lots of things said that have been said before.

One other thing that really ticked me off about Kat was her calling Kara out in front of all the subordinates. Any military people in here may have been a little shocked by this as well. I was half expecting Kara to throw Kat in the brig for insubordination. She had plenty of instances.

Well, Kat probably reminds Kara of herself. Ah... good old insubordination.

ShippyChick
February 4th, 2006, 07:45 AM
One other thing that really ticked me off about Kat was her calling Kara out in front of all the subordinates. Any military people in here may have been a little shocked by this as well. I was half expecting Kara to throw Kat in the brig for insubordination. She had plenty of instances.
I think that the whole military rank thing seems to be irrelevent on this show. More often than not the subordinents are mouthing off or completely ignoring their superiors. How can they expect there to be any order in things if they let this trend continue.

shockwave
February 4th, 2006, 08:05 AM
good ep, not the best one

again flashbacks, will we have them next week too?

housejk
February 4th, 2006, 08:26 AM
Overall, I thought it was an episode that redeemed itself quite well when Starbuck started quoting all the names of the dead pilots at the end. It was at that point that Kat realized that it was not about her or Starbuck who got Scar, but about the pilots that had been lost to Scar. You could see it on Kat's face during the recitation of names. To me, it went from a 7/10 episode to a 9/10 just right there. Enough whiny pilots, however. Two in a row is enough.

housejk
February 4th, 2006, 08:33 AM
Please help. During Starbuck's recitation of the names of the dead at the end of the episode, they played a classical music piece (I think) that I have heard somewhere before, perhaps years ago in a sad movie of some sort. Any idea of what that music was? IT was a nice touch to the scene.

LoneStar1836
February 4th, 2006, 09:43 AM
Please help. During Starbuck's recitation of the names of the dead at the end of the episode, they played a classical music piece (I think) that I have heard somewhere before, perhaps years ago in a sad movie of some sort. Any idea of what that music was? IT was a nice touch to the scene.I read on another board that someone said it was from the movie The Deer Hunter. I haven’t seen that movie in a while so I can’t say for certain that’s what it was from, but it kind of makes sense if it was.


And speaking of the remembering of comrades who died, they forgot poor ol’ Karma (what a call sign), the Raptor pilot who died over Kobol when he was shot through the floor.

aaobuttons
February 4th, 2006, 10:34 AM
During the Podcast they said it was from Deer Hunter.

Auralis
February 4th, 2006, 11:08 AM
could have been a great episode, but was imo pretty much ruined by the horrible editing. there was no flow in the story at all.

titans
February 4th, 2006, 02:08 PM
Good show. Although two things I didn't like was the lack of dicipline with regards to Kat mouthing off to Starbuck and striking a superior officer. These people are military correct?

Also the "almost" sex scene between Kara and Lee...a little weird.

lordmutt
February 4th, 2006, 03:18 PM
My two cents....Wasn't up to my expectations at all, really disappointing, i understand why RDM did the whole flashback thing(to show a little combat each segment so people stay watching the television) however it would have been a better episode if the entire fight was at the end, and the entire ep was building up to the point, kat and starbuck get over the differences and kill Scar together, but that didn't happen...in the long run you get better ratings RDM(in case your reading lol) if each episode is made for quality, not ratings

Speakfire
February 4th, 2006, 04:05 PM
From how the scene was done, I got the impression there were more pilot names Kara wanted to say but couldn't quite remember the names. Like the what, 12 other pilots that died when Flattop bit it after his 1000th landing on the hangar deck? He wasn't the only one to die.

The way that Kara hesitated after saying the last name, it seemed to me that she knew that there were many other pilots whos names she couldn't remember for one reason or another, and then Lee stepped in and said, "To all of them." As in, those we can remeber the names and faces of, and those we can't..

That's how I read it anyway.

THSEX1138
February 4th, 2006, 06:19 PM
First I must say that having 3 episodes in a row with 48 hour flash backs is getting old. How about starting at episode 220 and working our way backwards that way we will already know who gets killed and spend the next 9 episodes finding out what happened.

I really enjoyed this one. I loved the cockpit scene where Kara :sam: takes up the entire screen. The look on her face was timeless. The visual effect of the Viper and Cylon cannon fire flashing all around her ranks in the top ten on my highlight reel.

On the lowlight reel once again Lee drops the ball. He has 2 women that want nothing more than to send his flight suit out of the nearest air lock yet he cannot close the deal. Maybe Kara should have asked him to pay for it?
http://fapomatic.com/05/bsgavatar.jpg

Agent_Dark
February 4th, 2006, 06:27 PM
Good show. Although two things I didn't like was the lack of dicipline with regards to Kat mouthing off to Starbuck and striking a superior officer. These people are military correct?

I think you'll find military discipline is alot more relaxed on the post apocalyptic Galactica than it would have been in the pre-apocalyptic Colonial Fleet. Especially among the pilots who are putting their lifes on the line every sortie they go out on

yaaayoubetcha
February 4th, 2006, 07:29 PM
i'm waiting for the flashback time frame.....have it say something like....199 hrs ago...and have the current ep suddenly take place before last week's ep but still be in continuity.

tucker9477
February 4th, 2006, 07:47 PM
well, i enjoyed the episode as well except for the 48 hours earlier theme, which has been so prolific lately. if it happens again next week, i don't know whether i'll laugh or groan... at that point, the rest of the season should be called"battlestar galactica 48 hours earlier" instead of season 2.5.

cyke
February 4th, 2006, 09:22 PM
i enjoyed this episode more than last weeks, which wasn't hard to do. this episode still felt a little uneven in parts but it was good enough to keep me interested. it makes me wonder if they will bring anders back.

i still want to know what they objective of the fleet is at this point? are they on their course to look for earth or what? at least earth was mentioned in tonights episode. and how convinent that no major assaults are happening because the ressurection ship was destroyed. actually, it's not bad. it gives time for the fleet to recoup a little bit. shame though for the nuggets.

i would also like to add, that sharon looked extra cute in this episode, i guess that pregnancy glow has suited her well.

Voxyn_Queen
February 4th, 2006, 10:47 PM
Okay, just finished watching this ep.

So, my first impression is, or more of a sarcastic question really. Are we going to have to endure another single character episode next week? If i hadnt already read the one line of plot outline, i would have said yes.
Over the past couple weeks we have seen nothing but stories regarding one or two characters only - One on Laura and Baltar, then one on Lee, now one of Kara.

So next week . . . Admiral Adama? . . . That annoying 'Dee' character?

This is one of my favourite TV series, so im really hoping that next weeks episode wont make me cringe. but looking at the promo pics, that doesnt seem likely.

ArthurKing
February 4th, 2006, 10:48 PM
I think you'll find military discipline is alot more relaxed on the post apocalyptic Galactica than it would have been in the pre-apocalyptic Colonial Fleet. Especially among the pilots who are putting their lifes on the line every sortie they go out on

Eh ... descriptively, that may be the case -- the loss of nearly your entire species can never be a good thing to the state of mind or the rule of authority. However, normatively ("ought to"), as someone quite well-versed in military history, I can say that it is imperative to maintain the structures of command at all costs OVERALL (not to say that you can't loosen things up during extended engagements or the like).

From classical antiquity to the 21st century, we see that things get really really bad really really quickly when your chain of command goes bye bye. My hopes are that the series continues to be realistic and to address some of these issues in the rest of Sea2 or even Sea3.

Also, just to share :): I've been told by one of my relatives who is in the military and also a huge Galactica fan "Of course, I'd have his ass locked up [if a subordinate ever struck him] (dramatic pause) after I kicked the @#*( out of the little $*#@#$] -- this is a commissioned officer, mind you. Not saying it's right or wrong, just sharing a 'field' perspective

hU$h3rN7242c
February 5th, 2006, 07:54 AM
This was a really good ep, but when I first watched it I was not really enthralled with it. As I sat back reading posts in the forums, I thought about it a little. I liked it, and for some unexplicable reason, I had reservations.

The jumping back and forth did start to get a little old. I think the thing that really made me not love it was the fact that Starbuck was turning into something else, and Kat's non-existent acknowledgement that Starbuck played bait for Kat to get a shot. After I realized what my reservations were and being an aspiring writer, suddenly I felt hypocritical. Characters change. As a writer, that's your job. Things don't alway go as planned in real life, why should they in fictional environments. So I admitted to myself that the story premise was very good. The fraility of Starbuck coming out was good to see from a character development perspective. I would also expect Kat's lack of admission of help from Starbuck to come up some time later in this season or next. (RDM and his group are sneaky like that.)
Ofcourse, then I sat back and watched the episode again while listening to the podcast. It really made me appreciate the episode a ton more. It also made me realize that part of the reason the episode was not a fun watch was due to the attempt of realism of being a viper pilot that they strived to portray. The chair and the pilot jumping out vomiting were all things to give you an idea of the hell these people go through.

In all, I would say, its not a greatly fun episode. It is a very good episode in that it tries to bring the pain and struggle of the pilots and their day to day lives doing this job that very few people in the ragtag fleet seem to want or seem capable of handling. To me, it was close to season one's 33. We were meant to feel the pain and struggle that they had to go through. I think that came through, combined with my other reservations, and made me a little hesitant and first. In all, I think that RDM and crew delivered almost exactly what they wanted too. Ok, now I'm done druthering.

yaaayoubetcha
February 5th, 2006, 07:59 AM
i still want to know what they objective of the fleet is at this point? are they on their course to look for earth or what?



i'd like them to redefine their goals as well. or....define again, i guess, if they haven't changed.

Starbuck is stuck on the idea of returning to Caprica and recently Adama thanked the President for convincing him not to take the ship to war after the attack but was also thinking of the folks on Caprica and perhaps the other colonies. The President is dead set on finding Earth.

3 viewpoints...would really like the writers to give a bit of a definition ep again...let us know everything as it stands.

Quinn Mallory
February 5th, 2006, 09:20 AM
I remember reading that BSG thought about doing a clip show (due to budgetary concern) and opted not to. I guess this episode being a pseudo clip show (especially with how it reused a few clips 4-5 times) may be the reason how they were able to avoid a clip show.

It was a fine episode and I like the insight that we got of the Cylon raiders.

I echo the sentiments of an earlier post that it would be nice to see they restate what the objective of the fleet is now that Cain had appeared and lef (are they still looking for Earth...do they now really know where it is now; going back to Caprica, something that was supported by Cain, is now completely scrapped?).

titans
February 5th, 2006, 09:29 AM
I think you'll find military discipline is alot more relaxed on the post apocalyptic Galactica than it would have been in the pre-apocalyptic Colonial Fleet. Especially among the pilots who are putting their lifes on the line every sortie they go out on

I see what your saying but they're still military. In fact now more than ever dicipline should be important. They have whats left of humanity depending on em'.

They coulda learned something from Admiral Cain!! (besides torture, civilian executions and the like)

x_sid
February 5th, 2006, 09:38 AM
Also the "almost" sex scene between Kara and Lee...a little weird.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this. I not some uptight guy who can't handle "Adult Situations", but there was something about this that just seemed weird.

Also something that bugged me about this, was Kara made that comment to Sharon about fracking the Chief. Does this seem hypocrytical to anyone else?

x_sid
February 5th, 2006, 09:41 AM
They coulda learned something from Admiral Cain!! (besides torture, civilian executions and the like)

I agree with this. These people might need to take a page out of Cain's book, and start acting like they care about something other than themseleves. Maybe we should beam all 10 episodes of Band Of Brothers into space so they can see how a miltary unit that is out numbered is supposed to act.

I'm not saying don't mourn the dead, but this drinking away all their problems is going a bit far.

titans
February 5th, 2006, 10:04 AM
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought this. I not some uptight guy who can't handle "Adult Situations", but there was something about this that just seemed weird.

Also something that bugged me about this, was Kara made that comment to Sharon about fracking the Chief. Does this seem hypocrytical to anyone else?

I am someone who can't handle "Adult Situations" but it was still weird!

And EXACTLY what I was thinking as far as Kara's hypocracy with the "fracking the Chief" comment...but I guess when your not the one in leg irons with three marines pointing their guns at you it's a little easier to be a hypocrite!

Vyrsace
February 5th, 2006, 10:58 AM
That was the pic of that dead pilot's girlfriend that no one could remember the name of.



About the new tidbit of info offered up about the Raiders......I wonder if it’s like a collective download. Sharon’s discussion with Starbuck seemed to imply that the one Raider is reborn time after time and thus becomes a more skilled fighter, but you’d think that the knowledge gained by that one Raider would be more useful if it were distributed as a download to all the other Raiders within range of the Resurrection ship.

There has to be some mechanism for Cylons to upload information from other Cylon models like themselves. Caprica Boomer seemed to have had the same knowledge and memories of Galactica Boomer before Galactica Boomer was killed.

If all the Raiders could upload the experience of all the other Raiders that have been taken out, it would make them one heck of a formidable enemy. Hmm....maybe that’s why they would avoid writing that as a possibility. The odd are already stacked against the fleet. Making all the other Raiders as skilled as Scar would deplete Galactica’s and Pegasus’s pilots unless they could all turn into super pilots overnight, which is pretty unrealistic.


Anyway.....good episode. Didn’t blow me away from beginning to end, but it did have some excellent character moments. Favs were that last bit with Kara and Helo at the end (more Kara/Helo scenes please...I like the relationship as close friends those two characters have) and the Kara/Lee drinking scene. Oh yeah and the Sharon/Kara one as well.

The praise at the end for Kat didn’t bother me so much. I’m sure people know how it went down and that even though Starbuck didn’t get the kill, she got the assist. Kat did have some good points earlier in the episode about Kara’s behavior. (Course Kat still grates on my nerves. :D) Nice touch at the end with Kara naming off most of the deceased pilots even though she pretended not to remember any of them earlier in that scene with Lee.

Well also make sure to note that Scar's major advantage was that heavy metal asteroid belt which left draetus vulnerable to any enemy. I think it was implied that if Scar wasn't within that asteroid belt then he/she/it wouldn't have had the same advantage. Not to dissolve Scar's ability because he/she/it was an exceptional fighting Cylon but I think the asteroid belt played a major role as to why he/she/it was so much better than most of the Colonial fighting fleet.

Vyse
February 5th, 2006, 11:33 AM
Great episode, much better than last weeks atrocity. I'm also sick and tired of all of these "flashback" episodes. Once in a while it's a great tool to use. But when they do it this much it's just plain annoying.

Vyse
February 5th, 2006, 11:36 AM
I really did not like how Kat seemed (i say seemed, because there was no mention of Starbuck helping by her when she was telling her to fill her cup) to take all the glory when there was that little 'i killed scar' party.


Yeah, that annoyed me too. I was thinking well yeah Kat, you killed it, but Starbuck deliverd it to you. It really was a team effort, but she took all the glory.

entil2001
February 5th, 2006, 11:38 AM
There are a lot of similarities between this episode and the previous installment, but I thought there were some fundamental differences that made this episode work. Despite the use of a writing device that has become an annoying bad habit (that “XX hours earlier” thing), events proceed according to a logical extension of what has come before in previous episodes this season.

That was the big difference for me. In the previous episode, Lee was taken into territory that qualifies as character development on a certain level, but didn’t match what had come before in an organic fashion. It makes sense that Lee would find himself in a dark place after his near-death experience, but the episode relied too much on retroactive continuity changes.

This episode, on the other hand, was the logical extension of several character threads. Starbuck in particular has been on this path for quite a while, and she created each and every one of her problems in this episode. All of her self-righteousness against Tigh earlier in the series comes back to haunt her, she creates her own worst nightmare in Kat, and she can’t seem to handle the fact that she’s still in love with a man who’s probably dead.

That’s what Lee was supposedly dealing with in the previous episode, but unlike that situation, we’ve seen Kara with Anders, and we know that she’s taken steps to attempt a rescue as recently as “Resurrection Ship”. It gives her actions and emotions in this episode context. In short, it builds on elements already present.

One of the similarities that I appreciated was the change in perspective. The previous episode delved into the ugly side of the civilian world, which hasn’t been seen very much, and this episode takes us into the world of the Viper pilots. A listen to the podcast for this episode reveals the amount of research that was applied to that depiction, which is why a number of elements ring true.

This provides Kara’s downward spiral with a strong context. Add to that a number of nuanced performances, and this episode shines all around. More than once, I was struck by how well the characters’ emotions were communicated without dialogue. I actually felt like I learned more about Lee’s recent descent from his few scenes in this episode than in the entire hour devoted to his psychology.

As I’ve said in reviews for other series, whenever an episode focuses on a single character, enjoyment of that episode is often predicated on a person’s like or dislike for that character. I’ll admit that I’m more interested in Kara than Lee, but that certainly wasn’t the only difference between the two episodes. For me, it came down to the fact that this episode was better the second time around, whereas the previous episode actually seemed worse on the second viewing.

While they aren’t necessary for an episode to be strong, the effects during the battle sequences were quite impressive and truly enhanced the gritty side of the Viper pilot lifestyle. The scene between Kara and Sharon was also quite good (and Sharon looked incredible, as always!). Likewise, the ultra-awkward Kara/Lee scene was something to behold. Those were just a few of the highlights, and for that reason, this was one of the better episodes of the season.

LoneStar1836
February 5th, 2006, 12:19 PM
Well also make sure to note that Scar's major advantage was that heavy metal asteroid belt which left draetus vulnerable to any enemy. I think it was implied that if Scar wasn't within that asteroid belt then he/she/it wouldn't have had the same advantage. Not to dissolve Scar's ability because he/she/it was an exceptional fighting Cylon but I think the asteroid belt played a major role as to why he/she/it was so much better than most of the Colonial fighting fleet.Yeah, kind of forgot about that. Thanks for the reminder. :)

But still you got to wonder why all the Raiders wouldn’t get some kind of download of previously destroyed Raiders’ experiences. It would enhance their abilities, imo. Give them a one-up on Colonial dogfighting tactics. I mean if Starbuck can take out almost 8 Raiders singlehandedly (Act of Contrition), you’d think they’d be looking for some way to prevent such losses even if those losses are just going to be reincarnated. The Cylons have to use resources to build the exterior of the Raiders, and they have to grow the organic material. That takes time and resources. Like Sharon said, why have to start over each time and train new Raiders. Death becomes a learning experience. But instead of for just that one, why not for all of them. (Course that hinges on the ability of the living Cylons to be able to download info on the go, but I think they have hinted enough at this possibility that I believe they can.) Plus you get the added bonus of the Raiders being more aggressive in their hate of humans (course I guess that could also be a weakness).

They could have had a dozen Scars out there picking off Vipers instead of the one working in tandem with a couple of other possibly lesser experienced Raiders.


From how the scene was done, I got the impression there were more pilot names Kara wanted to say but couldn't quite remember the names. Like the what, 12 other pilots that died when Flattop bit it after his 1000th landing on the hangar deck? He wasn't the only one to die.

The way that Kara hesitated after saying the last name, it seemed to me that she knew that there were many other pilots whos names she couldn't remember for one reason or another, and then Lee stepped in and said, "To all of them." As in, those we can remeber the names and faces of, and those we can't..

That's how I read it anyway.
That’s how I read it as well, but the writers still forgot poor Karma, who actually had some screen time (so mentioning his name would remind us the viewer how he died because for all the familiar names, I could remember pretty much how all of them died as each name was mentioned) unlike some of those others I’d never heard of. Course I guess that was part of the point. It’s the nameless, faceless soldiers out there everyday protecting us, and you usually only learn their names after they’ve given their life in the line of duty.

SG1/SGA/BSG/FF_Fan
February 5th, 2006, 01:01 PM
I think the point here was for us to feel weird about it and for the scene to feel wrong. We know deep down that it isn't right for Kara and Lee to hook up since their hearts aren't really into it - Kara wants Anders and Lee would like to go back to what he had in Caprica. In the context of chaos all around them, it makes sense for both of them to think they should try substituting their real desires for what can be had, but not going through with it because deep down it isn't really what either want. Actually, if the scene played out true to life, they would have had each other and then been wierded out in each other's company for the rest of the season.

Easter Lily
February 5th, 2006, 02:43 PM
This episode felt rather flat for me for some reason... it tried a little too hard to be angsty and felt contrived. The parts of it that redeemed it for me were the Kara/Helo bits and the toasting scene at the end. But for the reasons stated, I found the believability factor a stretch. Flashbacks, I don't mind.... and Lost does the flashback thing far more than BSG anyhow. However, 2 female pilots acting like brats for much of 40 minutes just grates on my nerves.

I like Starbuck generally and on a good day I can live with Kat but to have two of them share so much space together overflowing with belligerence is too much of a good thing. Some of the criticisms of the Kara/Kat dynamic have already been mentioned so I'll just mention this...

Now, I realise that discipline is somewhat lax on the ships due to the extraordinary events in which the fleet find themselves. But these individuals lack discretion and any inner discipline which bugs me. Occasionally, I can accept some momentary lapses but this persistent lack of respect for various offices is beginning to bother me.

waswas
February 5th, 2006, 03:38 PM
remember where these people came from. The president is in that military mode and adama is sucking up (why, he's in love or she made him an admiral) but its going to get her in trouble. They need Baltar. Everyone there is learning something new.
Adama is learning how to be an admiral and get his politics right so the fleet doesn't fall apart.
Lee is learning politics of commanding a fleet and using people (richard hatch in black market) to manage. Remember president's the flashback dealing with the old president. that guy was trying to control not manage.
Starbuck is learning to be a CAG and the triumph of scar is that she learned how to be a team player and leader. That is why Adama never stopped smiling at the end.

Now they have to learn how to trust Boomer:tealc:

waswas
February 5th, 2006, 03:44 PM
In the band of brothers they always had replacements from a 150 million pool of people. Galactica got 50,000 and everyone isn't gunho or human.

Thermonuclearboy
February 5th, 2006, 04:50 PM
I liked it okay, but I think there was a wasted opportunity with Scar. The idea of a recurring Cylon antagonist is a good one. We're seeing that the Raiders have distinct personalities, that individuals exist within the Cylon ranks as well as among the humanoid ones, and it might be interesting to explore that more. Maybe have a recurring Raider "character." It's a pity they killed Scar off so quickly.

USA1290
February 5th, 2006, 06:12 PM
Well, Kat probably reminds Kara of herself. Ah... good old insubordination.
I thought of that also. i was thinking she's Col. Tigh now.
I'm wondering if she will be exactly like or almost like Col. Tigh by the end of the series? :(

warmbeachbrat
February 5th, 2006, 06:41 PM
I don't know...first last week and now this week. Last week, seemingly out of nowhere, we get some sort of romance that Lee was having. Then this week, we find out Kara is mooning over some guy from ten episodes ago. Maybe I haven't been paying close enough attention, but has any mention of Anders been made before this episode? She certainly hasn't been acting like he was an obsession earlier in the season. Did I miss something?

If they're going to have romances with the lead characters, shouldn't they show hints of it before it just springs on us full-blown with no previous clues?

waswas
February 5th, 2006, 06:49 PM
No, starbuck is not becoming col tigh because she has a self confidence that col tigh doesn' t have. she having a hard time growing up just like Lee. She is not a drunk but overwhelmed and depressed.

Her character has no history in the story line but Tigh does and she can stand on her own 2 feet where Tigh needs Adama to function. Why do you think he isn't running the Pegasus. No one controls Starbuck except Starbuck and that was true with Dirk Benedict too in the original series. Remember Benedict got in trouble over gambling, women and ambrosa, but he could stand on his own without Richard Hatch. "the long patrol" and that stupid Galatica 1980 episode where he became best friends with a Ceylon and saved that stupid kid.

ItsDan
February 5th, 2006, 07:32 PM
Also something that bugged me about this, was Kara made that comment to Sharon about fracking the Chief. Does this seem hypocrytical to anyone else?

She was refering to before the Cylon attack, I can't remember if Kara was screwing around with someone on the ship then.

somedude
February 5th, 2006, 07:40 PM
I liked this episode, and I liked Kat too. She really took care of her nugget pilots, unlike Starbuck, who couldn't get some guy out of her mind, drank herself silly, and got one of her pilots killed.

I'm not so certain that Kat knew Starbuck was giving her an assist- I got the feeling that she was out of wireless and visual range, when she came back and fired on Scar?

keshou
February 5th, 2006, 09:07 PM
I'd say Starbuck is my favorite character. So I welcome some character insights and development for her.

I thought this was an interesting episode but not really one I enjoyed a lot, if that makes any sense. No. 1 - I was totally groaning when they started the whole flashback thing again - it put me in a bad mood right up front. And I agree with EL that some of the angst felt contrived.

However I won't mind if they follow up on the Kara/Anders storyline - definitely some unfinished business there and I'd like to see what's happened to Anders.

As for the Starbuck/Kat sparring......I spent half the episode thinking - "hey, Kat is on target with a few of these points" and the other half wanting to slap her. I think the wanting to slap her won out. :P :) Of course I wanted to slap Starbuck a couple of times as well. Sheesh...

The things I really liked....

*The scenes between Starbuck/Sharon and Starbuck/Helo. Ever since Starbuck and Helo were stranded on Caprica I've enjoyed their dynamic a lot. I'm glad it hasn't been forgotten. Interesting stuff on the Raiders resurrecting. I guess I'd never thought about it but it does make some sense.

* the refusal of Lee to play into Kara's emotional outburst and his continued willingness to support her as a friend

*the tribute to the lost viper pilots at the end. Very well done and I was very proud of Starbuck in that scene.

Wyrminarrd
February 6th, 2006, 12:45 AM
I´ll add my voice to those that are complaining about the use of "xx hours earlier". This writing method is getting EXTREMELY old and irritating, in almost every show I watch they are using it again and again. Do they really think that by showing us the a part of the main event of the episode right at the front that we will be more inclined to watch the whole ep? If so then this is just a stupid device for trying to hold on to very casual watchers and not aimed at those who are commited fans.

As for the rest of the ep, I wasn´t impressed. On the whole this was one of the seasons weakest episodes and I found nothing in it that interested me. After the whole drama with the Pegasus and Cain it is a real let down to watch an episode like this were nothing really happens in the grand schemes of things.

Easter Lily
February 6th, 2006, 03:15 AM
remember where these people came from. The president is in that military mode and adama is sucking up (why, he's in love or she made him an admiral) but its going to get her in trouble. They need Baltar. Everyone there is learning something new.
Adama is learning how to be an admiral and get his politics right so the fleet doesn't fall apart.
Lee is learning politics of commanding a fleet and using people (richard hatch in black market) to manage. Remember president's the flashback dealing with the old president. that guy was trying to control not manage.
Starbuck is learning to be a CAG and the triumph of scar is that she learned how to be a team player and leader. That is why Adama never stopped smiling at the end.

Now they have to learn how to trust Boomer:tealc:
Fallibility I can handle but persistent disrespect for the code that one is to uphold is another. Perhaps my tolerance threshold has been reached and in this episode, someone crossed an invisible line with this ongoing belligerence.

Is Kara still the CAG... Didn't seem like it to me... :S My impression is that Lee has been reinstated. With all his flaws, he seems to me to be a much better CAG... or leader because leadership is not just about skills... it is also very much about your relationship with those subordinate to you. Kara may have the know-how but she's definitely not a people person. She's too insular (at this point in time) to be concerned about the bigger picture.
Kat is right about something, Kara may have the goods on piloting but she didn't (in this episode) have it for leadership. That's why Lee is a better leader because he knows when to hold back in spite of having "life and death" issues.

I like Kara... but from what I've seen so far, I don't think she is leadership material. She could be but she lacks the self-control to exercise discretion in such a role.

This episode lacked a story for me... it was just a couple of pilots eaten by guilt and trauma and going at each other. I just don't find their personal arcs compelling enough to carry an entire episode. The Scar angle didn't do much for me either... it was just another pilot with angst as well. With last week's on the other hand, at least the personal arc was woven into a larger story about problems in the fleet.

Cag
February 6th, 2006, 03:42 AM
This episode was one of my favorites so far this season.

One thing I couldn't figure is why wasn't the two best pilots in the fleet going after Scar. I.E. Starbuck and Apollo. I guess since Apollo is the head guy in charge, he gets to sit back and give the orders to all the pilots.

If the Raider pilots are resurrected, why didn't we see no ships aboard the Resurrection ship they blow up. I think I remember they are built aboard the Base Stars. Wonder why they don't require their own ship???

Lastly, I wouldn't let Kat get away from getting all the glory. I be like, lets play the footage please

Thermonuclearboy
February 6th, 2006, 06:15 AM
I was under the impression that Apollo and Starbuck are now of equal ranks. They're both CAGs - Apollo commands the Galactica air group, Starbuck the Pegasus. Apollo probably has seniority, as he's been a CAG longer.

Of course I don't know very much about military ranking systems, so I could be completely wrong...

Starbuzz
February 6th, 2006, 09:51 AM
This episode is a failure on the part of the directors and the writers. Whoever wrote the script for this episode lacks the freedom of imagination. Ron Moore once said that the Galactica concept would be executed in a fashion so different than other sci-fi shows. He said that there would be no clich&#233;s and so on.
But the last episode Scar is just one big bad clich&#233;. I can't believe that a good story is being destoryed by poor writing.
When the new nugget pilots show up, I knew that they would all die; how many times have we seen that in other shows?
I knew that in the end it would be Kat that shot down Scar. Why? Because the show was making a big deal with Starbuck drinking off. So predictable! Is this what Moore promised to deliver? Could it be something more original?
It would have been very VERY original if the Scar raider was not killed in the end! Now that would be quality science fiction!

Astaire310
February 6th, 2006, 04:28 PM
Guess I am in the minority here, but this was my favorite episode since Baltar shot Crashdown.

I enjoyed seeing Helo apart from Boomer, and thought that he and Starbuck were really believable as friends/comrades. It was great that he could see right through her on an emotional level. It was the first episode in which I actually liked Helo. Usually, I am sitting in front of the television shaking my head, saying, "Not the sharpest knife in the drawer..." and wishing he was written with a few more IQ points... It was also nice to see that Starbuck actually had a friend that she could confide in. She tries so hard to keep her problems and secrets hidden from everyone, and it is obviously destroying her.

I loved the Tigh/Starbuck parallels and Kat didn't bother me quite so much once her motivations became clear and I realized that the friction between her and Kara was about more than simple rivalry. The scene in the bathroom with the new pilot BB revealed a lot about Kat's character. Kat really wanted BB to come home safely from his mission, and gave him good emotional support as well as good advice. She reached out and tried to connect with him vs Starbuck who gave him what she believed to be good advice, but pushed him away with her hostile attitude and made him doubt himself even more. Who would you rather have as a boss? I would pick Kat over Kara in her current condition in an instant.

Kat went after Starbuck publicly because she was afraid for her life and the lives of her friends. She could tell that Starbuck was distracted and numb and didn't seem to care if she or any of her pilots lived or died. Perhaps, she could have gone to Lee or Adama, (or Tigh? That would have been funny) but what would they have done? Kat saw Lee watching Staruck behave like a drunken idiot in the first scene. He didn't make a move to stop her, remove her from the situation, or reprimand her then, or at a later date.

Kat is probably a lot like Starbuck, she speaks her mind and goes directly to the source. She wanted Starbuck to change because a lot of lives were at risk, so she confronted her and kept confronting her until she could elicit the response she desired. The rivalry between the two of them is probably due in part because they are similar in character and partly due to the fact that Kat wants to give Starbuck a wake-up call. Kat does not seem competitive with any of the other pilots. Presumably, some of them must be almost as good (or better (think Lee)) than she is.

I also enjoyed a lot of the subtle visual clues in this episode. My favorites were in the last scene when Starbuck goes to fill the Ace Pilot mug that Kat is holding and she picks up the bottle like she is going to slug Kat with it instead of pour her a drink. Then, when she begins to pour the bottle, she holds it away from the cup so that Kat has to move the cup to catch the alcohol. What a passive-agressive power play. The fight between these two isn't over and Starbuck still has the upper hand even though she is not up on the podium at the minute. All this before she takes the toast (and public glory) away from Kat by listing all the names of the dead pilots. (Yes, it also shows Starbuck's redemption--thanks to Kat and Helo.)

A few more comments and questions, I thought the scene between Boomer and Starbuck was wonderful, I loved that Apollo and Starbuck almost got together, and does anyone else think that Anders looks a lot like Lee? Intentional? I really hope that Anders is a Cylon. Wouldn't that be an interesting plot twist.

Great acting, great details, and I didn't care if I could predict the ending.

apollo123
February 6th, 2006, 05:55 PM
I thought this was a very good episode, one of the better episodes this season. It wasn't perfect, but it was LIGHT YEARS better than last week's.

Surprise! I actually LIKED the flashbacks in this episode. I think in the context of just this episode, it worked great. I groaned like everyone else when I saw the "92 hours earlier", but once I realized that it was done differently this time (flashing back and forth through the episode), I thought it was worked great - giving us bits and pieces of the story and then coming together at the end.

I liked the Kara/Kat conflict a lot. It was done with a good amount of realism. And you could kinda see each their points of view. No one was completely wrong or right. Even when Kara seemed to have messed up, she was able to back up her decisions. Whether or not she actually believed what she was saying was another thing, but that's what leaders do - exude confidence at all times even when you think you might've messed up.

I loved the Helo/Kara friendship. Their relationship is very cute and I like that Kara has a buddy on the ship.

One thing I didn't like - Kat punching Kara went unresolved. She kind of looked sorry for what she did, but was she? During the final battle with Scar, she appeared to have grown some respect for Kara, but I wasn't sure.

anotherquestion
February 6th, 2006, 09:33 PM
If the Raider pilots are resurrected, why didn't we see no ships aboard the Resurrection ship they blow up. I think I remember they are built aboard the Base Stars. Wonder why they don't require their own ship???

This does seem a problem except when you consider what a newly hatched Raider might initially look like. You could speculate that it looks like a hermit crab without its shell. Perhaps there is a post-birth manufacturing bonding to the more mechanical aspects of the raider. I wonder if each raider metabolises its own ammo, for example, or has to go back to a Basestar to be reloaded. A resurrected raider would appear lumpy and formless in the Resurrection ship, not discernable like the six models we saw in the recon photo.

The previous shots of raiders nesting vertically in the Basestars did give the strong impression that they were at least nurtured in that mega-organic structure. Must be a heck of a Resurrection ship, BTW, to allow Basestars to be "downloaded".

One other nit. The FX were spectacular but contrails in space require some kind of atmosphere, right? Something vaporous has to condense by the shock waves at the wingtips. It seems unlikely that any significant atmo could be bound to the asteroid debris field. This would make for much trickier flying, too. The sharp U-turns are more believable in the total absence of atmo, the air viscosity would impede such a manuever otherwise.

voigtstr
February 7th, 2006, 02:57 AM
the music from the deer hunter is called La Cavatina, from memory its by John Williams.

voigtstr
February 7th, 2006, 03:01 AM
My two cents....Wasn't up to my expectations at all, really disappointing, i understand why RDM did the whole flashback thing(to show a little combat each segment so people stay watching the television) however it would have been a better episode if the entire fight was at the end, and the entire ep was building up to the point, kat and starbuck get over the differences and kill Scar together, but that didn't happen...in the long run you get better ratings RDM(in case your reading lol) if each episode is made for quality, not ratings

In my opinion the ratings of a show are created by the shows leading up to that point. A particular episode wont rate well by whats in it, but a particular episode may cause more people to watch subsequent episodes.

donniepw
February 7th, 2006, 10:03 AM
I would like to say that while on one hand I don't mind the "XX hours ago", it can get played out. But Galactica has used this trick in season one as well. Acts of Contrition more or less starts at the end then fills in the gaps.

With that said I did enjoy the episode. I liked the friction between Kat and Starbuck. They mirror each other. Kat in a lot of ways is to Starbuck what Starbuck is to Tigh. Though I think for Kat it is a little different. I don't think Starbuck was ever an admirer of Tigh or held him in any high respect outside of the acknowledgement that he was a superior rank. Kat actually seemed to have respected Starbuck. She admits that Starbuck was the hottest stick in the fleet and she is watching her self destruct. There was also of course the compitition to be the best. Starbuck like Tigh keeps trying to remind Kat of her shortcommings (referring to her as stim junkie) just as Tigh keeps reminding Starbuck of her lack of professionalism. So I liked seeing the shoe on the other foot so to speak.

As for the best pilots in the fleet being Lee & Kara, I'm not so sure. Lee is considered a great pilot but seems to lack that certain edge that Kat and Starbuck have. I remember the conversation between Kara and Lee from the Hand of God where Lee acknowledges Kara as the better pillot while Kara tells him not to frak it up by overthinking it. To put it batter Kara is good because she is less concerned about making it out alive and more concerned about killing the enemy. Except this time she stopped to think about it.

I liked how she thought it over this time. Instead of just taking Scar head on in which case she would have probably gotten the kill and got taken out herself in the process she set him up for her wingman. I feel we saw Starbuck grow up some in this episode.

I loved the conversation between Kara and Sharron. They all know this girl, they loved this girl and they all remeber her as the person they once trusted. But she is still one of the enemy and they can't look past that. Also in a normal episode I think Helo is an idiot. It was nice to see him as a close friend and confident of Kara and not just an idiot for a change.

GALACTIC MYTH
February 7th, 2006, 04:25 PM
I enjoyed this ep. very much, like I did with the last "Black Market" cause it was almost the same style just different characters. It showed that Kara is so emotionally torn right now that she is so lost in not knowing who she is anymore and is driving her crazy. Kara is still the "Best stick in the fleet" even if Kat brakes a shooting range record. (that was here second time, I got that Kara shot 4 bulls on the first) Also Kara did all the work for Kat to take a clean shot. Kara put her life at risk and Kat just got the glory for pulling the trigger, although that would never of happened without Kara. This and the last ep shows how deep/complex the characters Kara and Lee are dealing with. You felt there pain, fustration, and agony. I love details of characters like this and don't mind at all if they do more backrounds. Although it would be nice to have them "Kick some cylon ass" again.

housejk
February 8th, 2006, 08:59 AM
Thanks so very much. It was indeed the classical guitarist's rendition of Cavatina, from the Deer Hunter. Very good stuff for that scene. Thanks for your help. Just bought season one, including the miniseries, and am looking forward greatly to getting caught up..Love the show and thanks for your help.

Keith

FeloniousMonk
February 9th, 2006, 12:18 PM
From how the scene was done, I got the impression there were more pilot names Kara wanted to say but couldn't quite remember the names. Like the what, 12 other pilots that died when Flattop bit it after his 1000th landing on the hangar deck? He wasn't the only one to die.

The way that Kara hesitated after saying the last name, it seemed to me that she knew that there were many other pilots whos names she couldn't remember for one reason or another, and then Lee stepped in and said, "To all of them." As in, those we can remeber the names and faces of, and those we can't..

That's how I read it anyway.
I had a different thought....I was half expecting her to mention at some point. I think Lee may have seen it in her eyes and stepped in to save her from stirring a pot she probably didn't want to stir.

But I could be wrong...I just thought it'd be nice of her to remember one of her best friends and fellow pilots.

waswas
February 9th, 2006, 01:16 PM
Lee is commanding or is the ranking officer over both wings on the Pegasus and Galactica that's why you didn't see him doing the intelligence brief. If you are in multicarrier taskforce (US Navy) there is usually a senior (usually a captain or O-6) wing commander over the two group commanders responsible directlly to the commanding admiral. I believe Starbuck is responsible for Galactica group only. The Pegasus was protecting the fleet but believe they were switching out pilots and the original Pegasus CAG was killed by Scar. I could be wrong but I have only watched the episode once.

Remember life is not about shoot out but growth. You'll only get growth through rememberance. Remember Zac? Starbuck is a little sentimental, God help her child. That boy will have the extra thick snow suit and made to feel guilty about everything.

I want to know where these people came from. Why is Tigh a drunk? How did Adama get back in the Colonial Fleet? How did Baltar meet six? Did Cain serve in Starfleet as an ensign? These flashbacks make the characters human. If you want super people, watch cartoons.:tealc:

MASON
February 9th, 2006, 03:10 PM
This does seem a problem except when you consider what a newly hatched Raider might initially look like. You could speculate that it looks like a hermit crab without its shell. Perhaps there is a post-birth manufacturing bonding to the more mechanical aspects of the raider. I wonder if each raider metabolises its own ammo, for example, or has to go back to a Basestar to be reloaded. A resurrected raider would appear lumpy and formless in the Resurrection ship, not discernable like the six models we saw in the recon photo.

The previous shots of raiders nesting vertically in the Basestars did give the strong impression that they were at least nurtured in that mega-organic structure. Must be a heck of a Resurrection ship, BTW, to allow Basestars to be "downloaded".
That's a great question, I've wondered how Scar lasted so long out there without nutrition or fuel. But he could have been jumping away to resupply. There are so many unanswered questions as to how the raiders work in tandem with the basestars.



One other nit. The FX were spectacular but contrails in space require some kind of atmosphere, right? Something vaporous has to condense by the shock waves at the wingtips. It seems unlikely that any significant atmo could be bound to the asteroid debris field. This would make for much trickier flying, too. The sharp U-turns are more believable in the total absence of atmo, the air viscosity would impede such a manuever otherwise.
I noticed this.

If you're going to have a contrail, I don't think it would appear as it was depicted. The viual effects gurus on BSG observe so many rules of physics to create a greater sense of realism for the show, and I was quite surprised they didn't investigate comet tail physics.

I think they may have done it just to increase the drama of flight, as was pointed out by Howard Hughes in "The Aviator", if you don't have clouds, or a point of reference behind the flying object you're filming, you get no sense for the actual speed it's travelling.

Night Marshal
February 10th, 2006, 01:43 AM
meh, honestly Its one of the better eps in season two, but for me it just seems to be missing something. Granted my opinion goes up with every viewing. Kat also gets on my nerves I'm sure some of that is by deside but that doesn't mean I'm going to like the ep in spite of it. I did like the fact that Kat not Starbuck gets the Kill on scar. Other than that I it was fairly tv.

DOIKECARTER
February 10th, 2006, 03:48 AM
This was a really good ep, but when I first watched it I was not really enthralled with it. As I sat back reading posts in the forums, I thought about it a little. I liked it, and for some unexplicable reason, I had reservations.

The jumping back and forth did start to get a little old. I think the thing that really made me not love it was the fact that Starbuck was turning into something else, and Kat's non-existent acknowledgement that Starbuck played bait for Kat to get a shot. After I realized what my reservations were and being an aspiring writer, suddenly I felt hypocritical. Characters change. As a writer, that's your job. Things don't alway go as planned in real life, why should they in fictional environments. So I admitted to myself that the story premise was very good. The fraility of Starbuck coming out was good to see from a character development perspective. I would also expect Kat's lack of admission of help from Starbuck to come up some time later in this season or next. (RDM and his group are sneaky like that.)
Ofcourse, then I sat back and watched the episode again while listening to the podcast. It really made me appreciate the episode a ton more. It also made me realize that part of the reason the episode was not a fun watch was due to the attempt of realism of being a viper pilot that they strived to portray. The chair and the pilot jumping out vomiting were all things to give you an idea of the hell these people go through.

In all, I would say, its not a greatly fun episode. It is a very good episode in that it tries to bring the pain and struggle of the pilots and their day to day lives doing this job that very few people in the ragtag fleet seem to want or seem capable of handling. To me, it was close to season one's 33. We were meant to feel the pain and struggle that they had to go through. I think that came through, combined with my other reservations, and made me a little hesitant and first. In all, I think that RDM and crew delivered almost exactly what they wanted too. Ok, now I'm done druthering.


I agree with all you´ve said. I remembered those old WWI and WWII movies with pilots and missions and bombers and so...you know, a mixture of MEMPHIS BELLE and first minutes in THE RIGHT STUFF and duels. The biggest difference is there is no hope of victory, just to live to fly another mission. I loved it....and I loved Anders too, so I feel really sorry for Kara this time. And Kat sucks! Kara confronted Tigh during before the attack, Kara tried Lee to act like a CAG in 33...Kara is a Captain now and Kat has a really BIG mouth, but I guess everyone fights the fear in their own way, hiding it, drowning it....

waswas
February 10th, 2006, 10:04 AM
Originally Posted by hU$h3rN7242c
This was a really good ep, but when I first watched it I was not really enthralled with it. As I sat back reading posts in the forums, I thought about it a little. I liked it, and for some unexplicable reason, I had reservations.

The jumping back and forth did start to get a little old. I think the thing that really made me not love it was the fact that Starbuck was turning into something else, and Kat's non-existent acknowledgement that Starbuck played bait for Kat to get a shot. After I realized what my reservations were and being an aspiring writer, suddenly I felt hypocritical. Characters change. As a writer, that's your job. Things don't alway go as planned in real life, why should they in fictional environments. So I admitted to myself that the story premise was very good. The fraility of Starbuck coming out was good to see from a character development perspective. I would also expect Kat's lack of admission of help from Starbuck to come up some time later in this season or next. (RDM and his group are sneaky like that.)
Ofcourse, then I sat back and watched the episode again while listening to the podcast. It really made me appreciate the episode a ton more. It also made me realize that part of the reason the episode was not a fun watch was due to the attempt of realism of being a viper pilot that they strived to portray. The chair and the pilot jumping out vomiting were all things to give you an idea of the hell these people go through.

In all, I would say, its not a greatly fun episode. It is a very good episode in that it tries to bring the pain and struggle of the pilots and their day to day lives doing this job that very few people in the ragtag fleet seem to want or seem capable of handling. To me, it was close to season one's 33. We were meant to feel the pain and struggle that they had to go through. I think that came through, combined with my other reservations, and made me a little hesitant and first. In all, I think that RDM and crew delivered almost exactly what they wanted too. Ok, now I'm done druthering.



I agree with all you´ve said. I remembered those old WWI and WWII movies with pilots and missions and bombers and so...you know, a mixture of MEMPHIS BELLE and first minutes in THE RIGHT STUFF and duels. The biggest difference is there is no hope of victory, just to live to fly another mission. I loved it....and I loved Anders too, so I feel really sorry for Kara this time. And Kat sucks! Kara confronted Tigh during before the attack, Kara tried Lee to act like a CAG in 33...Kara is a Captain now and Kat has a really BIG mouth, but I guess everyone fights the fear in their own way, hiding it, drowning it....
Yesterday 05:43 PM
Night Marshal meh, honestly Its one of the better eps in season two, but for me it just seems to be missing something. Granted my opinion goes up with every viewing. Kat also gets on my nerves I'm sure some of that is by deside but that doesn't mean I'm going to like the ep in spite of it. I did like the fact that Kat not Starbuck gets the Kill on scar. Other than that I it was fairly tv.


Kat has become an uncute Starbuck. Remember, Kat used to be a scared speed junkie, but she focused.

Starbuck punched Tigh and admitted in this episode that she had always been a lone wolf. Starbuck's character grew beyond the Dirk Benedict mold she inherited and is becoming more like Appollo. Appollo is becoming his father and his father is moving from the lucky outcast and rebel to an admiral under civilian supervision.

:tealc: The characters are growing, but I hope they do not forget who they were because what they were is what got them through (Adama's disdain of the new navigational system).

At least Kat's CAG doesn't have suppressed feelings of love for her, unlike Starbuck's boss

wikeja
February 14th, 2006, 12:21 AM
could have been a great episode, but was imo pretty much ruined by the horrible editing. there was no flow in the story at all.

Also the "almost" sex scene between Kara and Lee...a little weird.
I have to agree, the editing in the "Rutting 'Buck and Apollo-gize for not following through Ma'am" scene was whorrible. Did anyone notice Apollo had Starbuck down to her scivvies then she was suddenly re-pantsed?:eek:

madk99
February 14th, 2006, 08:20 AM
I have to agree, the editing in the "Rutting 'Buck and Apollo-gize for not following through Ma'am" scene was whorrible. Did anyone notice Apollo had Starbuck down to her scivvies then she was suddenly re-pantsed?:eek:
Yes, I did notice. and those were half down. Cute little almost shot of her bodunkus. :)
But what a great job of portraying the angst ridden turmoil. Was she able to convince herself that "there is nothing here. Nothing!!" hmmmm.

This episode had a "wow" factor that's been missing for while. I was really sucked into the story. I see this one as the "33" of season two.

bencook2
February 16th, 2006, 06:47 PM
I loved it. I thought it showed a very human side to the "do no wrong" character of Starbuck. (not that she does no wrong...just that she thinks that way.)

I thought Kat was conviencingly a *****. I wanted to smack her...so if that is what they were going for...it worked.

The Sharon/Starbuck scene was great...

...but the Starbuck alone with the gun-camera footage was painful. I loved it.

okelay
April 9th, 2006, 04:56 PM
hi
i'm looking for screencaps of the credits of this episode.
especifically, the moment when the more 'active' music starts and starbuck appears on screen.
i haven't been able to find it anywhere

Albion
April 12th, 2006, 08:31 AM
I really didn't like this one. Almost everything about it irritated me.

I really didn't enjoy seeing Starbuck revert to the out of control, drunk, ludicrous figure she was in the pilot. I thought she'd moved on from that.

The entire plot seemed to be there simply to tell us that Starbuck misses Anders and wants to go rescue him. Didn't need an hour for that. Or all those annoying flashbacks within flashbacks. Or the wobbly, swooping, grainy camerawork.

I usually quite like Kat, but she just annoyed the hell out of me. If I'd been Starbuck I'd have broken that bottle over her head.

And where the heck the Theme from the Deerhunter came into it, I have absolutely zero clue! It was so incongruous and out of place. No idea why they chose that and not some original in series music. It just sounded deeply bizarre.

The only thing I did like was the short scene between Sharon and Starbuck. That was beautifully done. I loved the moment when Sharon momentarily forgot who she was and leaned forward to put her hand on Starbuck's knee in classic 'girl talk' mode. Only to be brought up short when the guards cocked their weapons. Very, very nicely done.

But apart from that, this was a waste of an hour. It all seemed just very self-indulgent. Or self-absorbed as my husband put it.

And a thought struck me, watching. Why is there so much resistence to going back and rescuing the people on Caprica? Granted they've recently picked up Pegasus and that gave them a temporary shot in the arm when it comes to training new Viper pilots to replace those lost in combat. But that won't tide them over forever. And they have a finite, relatively small total no. of people they can turn to for training and replacement. They can't find new pilots forever. Not everyone in the fleet will be suitable to train. And at the rate they are losing pilots they're going to be in deep trouble very soon. So you'd think they'd hare back to Caprica at a rate of knots if there was even the faintest possibility that they could pick up a few hundred trained fighters.

Albion :)

Matt G
April 12th, 2006, 02:18 PM
1. OK...does anyone on Galactica NOT have a screw loose(other than the Admiral)?

2. Don't have a clue what Lee's role is on the Galactica/fleet.

3. The flashbacks weren't too bad here.

Overall though, I found that our trip through Lee's head was slightly better than our trip through Starbuck's.

Still an OK ep though.

beale947
April 12th, 2006, 03:15 PM
one thing i did learn from it, all the cylons even the raiders and the walking metal ones are resurrected. I didn't know that:P

scifigirl11
April 23rd, 2006, 03:28 PM
I just loved this episode! Especially the Lee and Kara even though it was weird. I think there's something there even though Kara is stuck on Anders. Just remember when she said Lee's name as she was in bed with Baltar. As for Lee, we all heard him say he loves her when she got back from Caprica. I hope they get together, they are both so intense that it would be fun to watch!

:cool:

MB.Eddie
January 2nd, 2007, 11:11 AM
Awesome episode. One of my favourites of the series. Loved the whole concept of Scar and the resurection. Plus how Starbuck was struggling to deal with leaving people behind on Caprica. Great ending where she let her wingman take the kill for the team, and how she mentioned all the dead pilots afterwards.

chevron3
December 1st, 2008, 06:09 PM
I usually quite like Kat, but she just annoyed the hell out of me. If I'd been Starbuck I'd have broken that bottle over her head.

i know! & then when she punched starbuck....


one thing i did learn from it, all the cylons even the raiders and the walking metal ones are resurrected. I didn't know that:P
:indeed:quite interesting


ok, so i just watched this ep, i enjoyed it. i liked the remembering of all the pilots. the lee/kara thing was awkward as in i didn't expect it from kara. oh well

Coco Pops
February 14th, 2009, 06:04 AM
So far this is my favourite episode of the series ..... There's just something about this I think is cool.

And that we learn the raiders are just like trained pets.... Not original but still cool. I like this episode and Resurrection Ship.

the missing 7
February 14th, 2009, 06:07 AM
So far this is my favourite episode of the series ..... There's just something about this I think is cool.

And that we learn the raiders are just like trained pets.... Not original but still cool. I like this episode and Resurrection Ship.

i don't like this ep it made me wanna kill kat more then i already want to

Coco Pops
February 14th, 2009, 06:20 AM
i don't like this ep it made me wanna kill kat more then i already want to

I was kinda hoping she'd get a belting, maybe put her in the infirmary for a few episodes. Annoying prat

Ishay
May 3rd, 2009, 01:10 PM
i hated kat so much in this ep . for frak sake leave kara alone :( she misses sam

the fifth man
September 18th, 2010, 07:38 PM
i hated kat so much in this ep . for frak sake leave kara alone :( she misses sam

My wife didn't like Kat too much either in this one. She really likes Starbuck, so Kat challenging her so much got on her nerves. She thought the episode itself was great though.

Pharaoh Atem
September 18th, 2010, 09:36 PM
My wife didn't like Kat too much either in this one. She really likes Starbuck, so Kat challenging her so much got on her nerves. She thought the episode itself was great though.

your wife and i agree kat's yelling and nagging got on my nerves

the fifth man
September 21st, 2010, 06:07 PM
Starbuck and Kat were too alike to get along for the most part.

Coco Pops
September 21st, 2010, 07:47 PM
I really wanted Starbuck to flatten Kat ....That would have been an awesome fight

Pharaoh Atem
September 21st, 2010, 09:09 PM
I really wanted Starbuck to flatten Kat ....That would have been an awesome fight

same here ...well i would prefer to see her out a airlock

Professor_S
June 16th, 2011, 11:38 AM
Katee Sackoff was excellent in this ep. To watch Starbuck drinking herself to a stupor and falling all over the officer's mess was truly heartbreaking. Throughout the episode, Sackoff gave a great performance of this conflicted and confused character.

On the flip side of that, Kat annoys the HECK outta me; I'm not sure what it is about her, but she's just GRATING!! :mckay:

Generally speaking, though I was not hugely taken by "Scar". It's not just because I'm not a fan of Kat; the story itself just never captured me. I enjoyed the glimpse into the life of a pilot on Galactica, but overall I found this to be a good ep - not a great one. (Though, by BSG standards 'good' is like 'awesome' by any other show's standards).

That said, the ending was great. The scene in the mess (*awesome* to see Adama down there too) and the scene in the gym were really, really moving to me.

max_omega
June 18th, 2012, 08:34 AM
So I have been rewatching this series, and like many of you I don't really care much for flashing back and forward. But this episode to me was one of the best Starbuck, i loved the story line, and the whole tone of the show.
Didn't care to much for Cat, she gets on my nerve.
My absolute favorite part was the ending, where Starbuck recites all the call sign of those who they have lost. I think it shows, that no matter what she says she really does care about everyone of the pilots that they lose.