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GateWorld
January 2nd, 2006, 07:50 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s2/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/2131.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px solid black" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">GALACTICA SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s2/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">EPIPHANIES</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 213</FONT>
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President Roslin lies on her deathbed, recalling her life on Caprica in the final hours before the attack. A terrorist group surfaces in the fleet demanding peace with the Cylons, and Baltar makes a discovery about the Cylon Sharon's unborn child.

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NowIWillDestroyAbydos
January 20th, 2006, 08:01 PM
Roslin Lives!!! It was a good episode, I give it a ***.

kharn the betrayer
January 20th, 2006, 08:05 PM
this is all I have to say..

Meh for the fact Rosalin was cured so damn easily ;_; ...I like her character but I want he rto Die just like the profercy said she would


I liked every thing else though expecially the flash backs and the Baltar/6 convo at the end when 6 was reading the letter

walterIsTheMan
January 20th, 2006, 08:07 PM
Another quality episode:cameron:. And no cheesy music this one either! WooHoo!

Speakfire
January 20th, 2006, 08:08 PM
Actually, the prophecy says that a dying leader (which she was dying) would lead the way to earth (which she has), but would never live to step foot on it. Thus, as long as she dies of any cause before they get to Earth, the prophecy is fulfilled.

Prophecies never go the way people expect ,there's always twists and half truths about them. Thats why they're so difficult.

I give it a b+ though. I can't fully explain why, but I guess I just didn't find it as satisfying as I have other episodes (resurrection ship pt 2, for example).

kharn the betrayer
January 20th, 2006, 08:17 PM
I give it a b+ though. I can't fully explain why, but I guess I just didn't find it as satisfying as I have other episodes (resurrection ship pt 2, for example).


I got that feeling to

I enjoyed it but I didnt get the same feeling I got while watching the last 3 episodes

raverockdancepop
January 20th, 2006, 08:32 PM
Did anyone else think this episode marked the beginning of Gaius' character? Up to this point he has been manuevered by Six or his superiors...

*SPOILERS*----holy crap I'm gonna talk about the episode now, if you haven't seen it...don't read any further----



I think that's an appropriate distance to prevent accidental viewing.
So, back to the discussion. With Gaius finding the truth of the cylon blood, ignoring Six's questioning about her "corporeal" counterpart and the shocker at the end, it would seem Gaius is siezing his own destiny. This is honestly the first time I've felt that Gaius wasn't a worm. Another thing... Did Laura actually recall seeing him with Six on caprica? Placing the warhead in the hands of the peace movement would give them the power to decapitate the government and the military, why? aghh....great writing

cyke
January 20th, 2006, 08:49 PM
after the past 3 episodes they had to slow down, which is what i expected in tonight's episode. i knew roslin's recovery would be quick and based from last week's preview, it became clear how roslin would get passed her 6 month expiration date.

pros
- flashback scenes were great, roslin liked to get it on with men of power, judging by her encounter with the president
- so she was going get ousted as Sec of Education, only to become president just hours later
-baltar giving the nuke, talk about whoa.

cons
- who in their right mind would ever joint a group that would declare peace with the cylons?! hello your homeworlds have been nuked, those who survived and are child bearing are hooked up to machines
- don't they know president aidar (sp) offered complete surrender
- adama and roslin should just give those people their own ship and say go ahead declare peace, we're out ! looks like these civilians are so ungrateful, with out galactica they would all be dead

i expect the next few episodes to not be on the slower paced before things gets speed up. this episode really put the mystery surrounding on baltar and what his whole plan in this, is he crazy? is he not? that nuke was all the way from season 1, nice to know they don't forget details like that

cyke
January 20th, 2006, 08:58 PM
i also forgot to mention... yes gina with her hair pulled back and actually wearing clothes does look different from #6 but hello one could still recognize her.

i mean, after 6 months give or take out in space this BLOND women comes in out of nowhere and is now some sort of leader of a movement that now wants peace with the cylons? that aspect felt like hole in the plot

somedude
January 20th, 2006, 08:59 PM
Just a question, but is this the episode that the previews showed Caprica Boomer assaulting her Marine guards with a chair?

kharn the betrayer
January 20th, 2006, 09:09 PM
Just a question, but is this the episode that the previews showed Caprica Boomer assaulting her Marine guards with a chair?
yes it is

the Marines were getting boomer so they could abort the baby and boomer didnt exactly like the idea

jmallx
January 20th, 2006, 10:04 PM
I agree with most of what you said.
The cyclons were enslaved but eventually freed.
The cyclons did try to obliterate humanity and they are CHASING the fleet.
I can't remember the "peace" leaders name but (we want peace and we will kill to get it) he said the fleet is attacking and retreating.
Anyone with half a brain can see that the Galactica is RUNNING and only fighting when they have to.
Despite what Cain wanted. There was simply no way to take back the 12 colonies.
The Colonials don't have the manpower or the hardware.
Nor any way to build either in a short timeframe without advanced technological planetary infrastructure

And Whatever happened to non violent/peaceful demonstrations? I might disagree with the viewpoint that making peace with the Cylons is the correct course of action, but I feel you have a right to express it peacefully.
It's kinda like people blowing up abortion clinics cause they are against murder.
But I digress

It's doubtful that the military has released that the cylons are trying to impregnate surviving women on Caprica and the other colonies. This might cause people to call for the rescue of the resistance.
While admirable, an attack on the planet to save 50+ people (and the resistance has probably been infiltrated by a cyclon humanoid model) is not worth the Galactica and/or Pegasus. They could be going up against a planetary defense system + basestars. To stack the lives of the last 48K+ humans against 50 humans is insanity.

It was the same thing when Starbuck got shot down and flew the Cyclon Raider back to Galactica. Roslyn had to tell Adama and Apollo to pull their heads out of their asses and to stop risking the fleet for 1 pilot.

Thats my 2 cents. Time for bed.



after the past 3 episodes they had to slow down, which is what i expected in tonight's episode. i knew roslin's recovery would be quick and based from last week's preview, it became clear how roslin would get passed her 6 month expiration date.

pros
- flashback scenes were great, roslin liked to get it on with men of power, judging by her encounter with the president
- so she was going get ousted as Sec of Education, only to become president just hours later
-baltar giving the nuke, talk about whoa.

cons
- who in their right mind would ever joint a group that would declare peace with the cylons?! hello your homeworlds have been nuked, those who survived and are child bearing are hooked up to machines
- don't they know president aidar (sp) offered complete surrender
- adama and roslin should just give those people their own ship and say go ahead declare peace, we're out ! looks like these civilians are so ungrateful, with out galactica they would all be dead

i expect the next few episodes to not be on the slower paced before things gets speed up. this episode really put the mystery surrounding on baltar and what his whole plan in this, is he crazy? is he not? that nuke was all the way from season 1, nice to know they don't forget details like that

cyke
January 20th, 2006, 10:23 PM
I basically don't understand the need for a group of people wanting peace with the cylons. granted not everyone may know the whole facts but really now, didn't the events in "33" tell these people anything. do you think the next time a cylon ship arrives, they will respond with hails of peace ?

Darschu
January 20th, 2006, 11:15 PM
Can someone seriously explain within the already set confines of Battlestar Gallactica how FRAK they were able to sneak a nuclear warhead off the ship without the radiation sensors picking it up.

It has already been set that Gallactica is capable of picking up radiation signatures onboard it's ships, and constantly tracks for them.

Anyone?

jbjaaz
January 20th, 2006, 11:17 PM
Maybe I'm a little confused, but didn't Lucy Lawless's character witness Sharon giving birth to her child in The Final Cut episode? I mean Sharon was all screaming and thrashing on a bed... which to me seemed like giving birth.

Also, in this episode you find that Six (the one Baltar saved from the Pegasus) has joined a "peace" group in order to pursuade the humans to surrender to the Cyclons so that the Cyclons could "save" them. If I recall in the previous episode didn't she basically allow the death of hundreds of cyclons by telling Baltar what the Ressurection ship was? She also seemed pretty darned satisfied when the Ressurection ship was destroyed. Now she's crawling back to the Cylons!?

Sci-Fi
January 20th, 2006, 11:58 PM
Believe the Galactica only detects a nuclear device when it is armed. In viewing previous episodes, it's the only times you see the alarms going off. Remember "33"? Nothing was detected until later when the ship headed straight for the RTF and the nuclear proximity alarms went off in both the raptor and on the Galactica.

That being said, I find it odd that high military assets like a nuke wouldn't be constantly and heavily guarded. Add in a mandatory search of all arriving and departing personnel and seizure of contraband. It isn't like the Colonials had a thousand nukes on-board (think they only have 4 left..used the 5th one in the baseship over Kobol). Baltar would be hard pressed to explain how it was stolen out of his lab. But this is a fictional universe and the Colonials may have more relaxed protocols and/or lack of Marines to properly secure all the arms lockers and munitions magazines. So it was a bit odd to see the Peace guy just wheel it off in a suitcase that he may or may not have had when he first boarded the Galactica.

The question becomes...why did Baltar decide to give a nuke to the "peace movement"?...and why isn't #6 picture plastered all over the fleet as a known Cylon model? RDM said the "glasses" was #6's "Clark Kent" disguise, but come on...that's going a bit too far past the believable scale.

Also, shouldn't a few trusted individuals be in charge of quality control of the ammo they are making? Or maybe a visual inspection before or during arming a Viper. At least we got to see that the Colonials have facilities to rearm themselves.

:cool:

bombsAway
January 21st, 2006, 12:24 AM
So much ground to cover: (don't read if you don't like spoiler stuff or long posts)
First, I agree with Kharn and speakfire, this Ep was a little bit flat, but we need filler episodes every now and then so that BSG spiral into a cycle of constantly trying to top itself.

I did enjoy the fact that for once Adama and Roslin were not quite as righteous as they have been in past eps without coming off as being obviously evil. Adama nearly chokes someone (more like the miniseries Adama) and Roslin demands the abortion of something that no one in the colonial fleet understands (cylons included probably). Not the careful metered approach she had before she became a religious icon.

Baltar: I've had fun watching him reel constantly from the manipulations of Six and the parallels of his situation with that of the entire fleet. The cylons have been chasing Galactica in the direction they wanted them to go forcing the fleet to do what they want as the human models work within the fleet to guide the political situation. I feel like Baltar may finally be realizing what Six has done/is doing to him and may begin to wonder if the same thing isn't occurring on a much larger scale.

Gina: I think that a few of the cylon sympathizers realize who and what she is and are hiding her from the rest of the movement. Also, never count on a cylon to be honest. All of the cylons both within the colonial fleet and within the cylon fleet destroyed in Resurrection Ship pt 2 may have allowed themselves to be blown up. There may have been another Resurrection Ship hanging back within range to capture all the downloaded minds of the cylons within that fleet. Assume that the cylons have all of this planed.

Cylon Sympathizers: The scene where Adama calls pregy Sharon in to his quarters and asks her why the cylons hate humanity so much is part of the reason for a group that is sympathetic toward the cylons. She reminds him of his speech when the Galactica was being decommissioned (miniseries) where he says that we never asked why we deserve to be alive. Sharon then looks at him and says “Maybe you don't”. We enslaved the cylons then went to war with them. The cylons left and humanity assumed that that would be the end of the war. That some how fighting to restrain slaves and then not chasing them all down would make up for all that they had done. What they did may not seem like it is equivalent but revenge usually doesn't when you're on the recieveing end.

Nukes: Eh, I'm willing to run with them.. I'm not that picky. I think this was done for dramatic effect and Baltar is the VP. It's not like he doesn't hold any power over what happens aboard Galactica.

riffcold
January 21st, 2006, 12:41 AM
I heard somewhere that the person that Number 6 said "I've been wondering when you'd show up." to in the Miniseries would be revealed in this episode.

The episode certainly seemed to be building up to it, but I didn't see that person. Did I miss something?

GateTrek2004
January 21st, 2006, 01:03 AM
Can someone seriously explain within the already set confines of Battlestar Gallactica how FRAK they were able to sneak a nuclear warhead off the ship without the radiation sensors picking it up.

It has already been set that Gallactica is capable of picking up radiation signatures onboard it's ships, and constantly tracks for them.

Anyone?

This is only a guess, maybe that suitcase it was in was able to confine the radiation inside it so sensors could not pick it up. i have no evidence to support this but hey thats one thing i would think of.

GateTrek2004
January 21st, 2006, 01:10 AM
Just loved Epiphanies! i was so glad to see that roslin survived! i just love her character, but a have to agree with what Speakfire said. everything towards the prophecy has come true. now i wonder if she'll say that she remembered seeing six/baltar on caprica during her flashback kissing! just that may get the good old doc kicked out of the vp seat.

captainpash
January 21st, 2006, 07:05 AM
I have a theroy that baltar only looks out for himself. The only problem with that theroy is him saving the president from cancer. I mean sure it was the right thing to do, and he and six talked about it afterwards, but why didn't he take the presidency unless he thought that maybe he would not make a good president which would lead him not to do think he could lead the cylons.

donniepw
January 21st, 2006, 09:33 AM
There are 8 cylons hidding amongst the fleet. Quite possibly the leaders of this peace movement are in fact Cylons. We know of at least Gina who is a member. Also did anyone beside me think that Gina at the end wasn't Gina from the Pegasus but in fact the physical six from from the season one episode Six Degrees of Seperation. She went by the name Ms. Godfrey, don't think they ever said her first name I will have to watch the whole episode again, but she did wear glasses. I could be way off base, give it some thought.

But overall i thought it was a good episode. I like how Baltar is becomming less minipulated by six and more driven by his own motivations.

captainpash
January 21st, 2006, 09:39 AM
Yeah he does seem to be more movitavated by his own reasons, but in this episode they had the shots were he is talking to number six, and then cutting to everyone elses perspective which shows that maybe baltar is going a little crazy.

HarshCritic
January 21st, 2006, 01:19 PM
i also forgot to mention... yes gina with her hair pulled back and actually wearing clothes does look different from #6 but hello one could still recognize her.

i mean, after 6 months give or take out in space this BLOND women comes in out of nowhere and is now some sort of leader of a movement that now wants peace with the cylons? that aspect felt like hole in the plot


This episode just didn't do it for me. I knew Roslin would survive and Sharon's baby would be born later on. The whole thing about no on recognizing #6. I thought they had pictures up around the fleet of all KNOWN cylons. How could they not recognize her? It is a silly subplot imo with #6 leading the pacifist movement. Also, it is a little hard to believe anyone would want peace after loosing your home, friends, and family ...basically the cylons committed genocide against the human species. It really was a filler epsode.

This is what I don't get. Why was Gaius so upset over that letter Roslin left him? People have said worst things to me than that and I don't start participating in the extinction of mankind. His reaction was too extreme!

MarshAngel
January 21st, 2006, 01:54 PM
I have a theroy that baltar only looks out for himself. The only problem with that theroy is him saving the president from cancer. I mean sure it was the right thing to do, and he and six talked about it afterwards, but why didn't he take the presidency unless he thought that maybe he would not make a good president which would lead him not to do think he could lead the cylons.

I think it's fear, not that he couldn't do a good job but that he'd be responsible. If he's in a position of power he can't even for a moment delude himself that nothing's really his fault or waffle over whether he's doing the right thing or not. Right now, if humanity fails part of the blame will rest with them, no matter how much he contributes to their demise. But if he's the one to help make the decisions... he can't delude himself into a guilt-free existence.

Vyrsace
January 21st, 2006, 02:30 PM
Well, we only know that they know she's a Cylons because we seen the portfolio of 'Known Cylons' on the President's desk when Vice President Baltar sat down and read it. The only public announcement they had made about known Cylons was about Leoben Conoyand and that other cylon, the tourist guide one from the mini-series (forget his name but feel free to correct me, thanks). Sure, they could have revealed to the public about Six being another known Cylon without showing it on the episodes but they would have atleast mentioned it too. Even if it was revealed to the public through any sort of broadcast, cultists usually don't listen or regard the news at all as fact or even with rationale. So it's not a huge stretch to say that they wouldn't know she's a Cylon but I don't think that it was even revealed to the masses, yet.

Janine
January 21st, 2006, 03:02 PM
I heard somewhere that the person that Number 6 said "I've been wondering when you'd show up." to in the Miniseries would be revealed in this episode.

The episode certainly seemed to be building up to it, but I didn't see that person. Did I miss something?

Watch the episode again, but go through Roslin's flashbacks to Caprica in freeze frame. This is the same scene, but from Roslin's point of view. There's rather a lot of people in the background carrying silver suitcases like number 6, and a few are very familiar faces (I'm not talking about Baltar and number 6; they're the obvious ones) who really shouldn't be on Caprica at this time. Is this the Cylons gathering to plant the nuclear devices on Caprica: the beginning of the attack? I'll wait for other people to watch the scenes again before I say who I think I've seen in these scenes. If these people are who I think though, I have NO idea where Battlestar's heading now!

Janine

somedude
January 21st, 2006, 03:49 PM
Watch the episode again, but go through Roslin's flashbacks to Caprica in freeze frame. This is the same scene, but from Roslin's point of view. There's rather a lot of people in the background carrying silver suitcases like number 6, and a few are very familiar faces (I'm not talking about Baltar and number 6; they're the obvious ones) who really shouldn't be on Caprica at this time. Is this the Cylons gathering to plant the nuclear devices on Caprica: the beginning of the attack? I'll wait for other people to watch the scenes again before I say who I think I've seen in these scenes. If these people are who I think though, I have NO idea where Battlestar's heading now!

Janine

Who was it? Spoil me!

Janine
January 21st, 2006, 04:12 PM
Who was it? Spoil me!
There's no way to be 100% sure, as the people are all in the background and you never get a face on, good look at them, but I'm pretty sure amongst the case carriers I've seen Starbuck, Boomer, some guy from Pegasus that I cannot remember the name of right now, a number 6 copy, and a Roslin copy. The Roslin one is the weirdest. Watch the flashback scenes again. It honestly looks like Roslin is standing there watching a copy of herself with a suitcase talking to Pegasus guy and two others with cases.

Creepy.

Janine

Osiris-RA
January 21st, 2006, 04:22 PM
Another well done BSG episode. Roslin lives! Loved it! I'm worried about Baltar. This corporeal Number Six might just be the person to tip him over the edge. I can't wait!

Lady Snow
January 21st, 2006, 04:53 PM
Didn't Baltar use the plutonium from the warhead in his mystical Cylon Detector? As I know absolutely nothing about nuclear warheads (probably a good thing, come to think of it), what function in a nuke does plutonium serve?

It was an alright episode. I loved Gaius' reaction to seeing Six again - it exactly mirrored mine. I wanted a bit more in the scene on the hangar deck between Kara and Lee - the "spacewalk" mention was cute, but more is better! And I, too, need to freeze-frame the Caprica scenes.

Blue Banrigh
January 21st, 2006, 04:54 PM
Maybe I'm a little confused, but didn't Lucy Lawless's character witness Sharon giving birth to her child in The Final Cut episode? I mean Sharon was all screaming and thrashing on a bed... which to me seemed like giving birth.
During Final Cut Sharon started aborting the baby for some unknown reason. What D'anna saw was Dr Cottle saving it.

GALACTIC MYTH
January 21st, 2006, 04:54 PM
Can someone seriously explain within the already set confines of Battlestar Gallactica how FRAK they were able to sneak a nuclear warhead off the ship without the radiation sensors picking it up.

It has already been set that Gallactica is capable of picking up radiation signatures onboard it's ships, and constantly tracks for them.

Anyone?

I thought the episode was needed, it showed a different view of the military and how some civilian are still can't excepted what happened on the colonies with no warning and have distrust in their new leaders (President Roslin/Admral Adama). Still thought it was great episode.

The thing about the nuclear warhead, that I understood was that since Baltar is still using the plutonium of the warhead, it cannot function without it. The warhead still has all the other components except the plutonium though the cylon sympithizers might be able to get ahold on that.

Oh and I was just wondering did anyone else catch (or I miss understood) that Lee was promoted to captian/CAG of the GALACTICA again?(if I did miss understood please correct me) While Kara is still the CAG of the PAGASUS. And did enyone else relise that Kat was a little pissed at Kara for being late (unlike Kara to be late in a Viper drill or whatever it was).

cyke
January 21st, 2006, 05:14 PM
There's no way to be 100% sure, as the people are all in the background and you never get a face on, good look at them, but I'm pretty sure amongst the case carriers I've seen Starbuck, Boomer, some guy from Pegasus that I cannot remember the name of right now, a number 6 copy, and a Roslin copy. The Roslin one is the weirdest. Watch the flashback scenes again. It honestly looks like Roslin is standing there watching a copy of herself with a suitcase talking to Pegasus guy and two others with cases.

Creepy.

Janine

i have the episode saved on my tivo, i rewatched all the flashbacks scenes and i can not find these other people. can you be specific as to which scenes was it ?

dec55
January 21st, 2006, 05:18 PM
I think the question of Boomer's baby was the main thing that drew me into
this eppy. The fact that Rosilin and Adama where just ready to kill the kid.....
The way they showed the violent willingness to drag Boomer to the abortion
table after she had gone through a attempted rape....was still as shocking.
Helo was the only one willing to defend his kid.....Boomer did all she could to
defend her.......

Love the little commercial of BSG and Sharon's baby though.....kinda
spoiled the audience who wondered what was the fate of Boomer and her
baby.... Grace rocked in this eppy!!!!!!

cyke
January 21st, 2006, 05:22 PM
wait i think i found it, it's when she says that the teachers strike is not worth dying for .. she looks and the guy she's talking to looks also .. there are 4 people talking, 3 females 1 male. 1 of the females does look like roslin from the back, the guy was wearing a uniform but i cant make a face and the 2 other women, i really can't tell, also in the upper left corner, you see baltar and #6 walking .. or is it baltar n #6?

SG-1ssm
January 21st, 2006, 05:30 PM
this is all I have to say..

Meh for the fact Rosalin was cured so damn easily ;_; ...I like her character but I want he rto Die just like the profercy said she would


I liked every thing else though expecially the flash backs and the Baltar/6 convo at the end when 6 was reading the letter

I agree. I thought it was one of the best episodes, and I liked Rosalin too, but I wanted her to die. It would have made a great new part of the show because Baltar can't be president.

Blue Banrigh
January 21st, 2006, 05:44 PM
Love the little commercial of BSG and Sharon's baby though.....kinda spoiled the audience who wondered what was the fate of Boomer and her baby.... Grace rocked in this eppy!!!!!!
What? New ad?

somedude
January 21st, 2006, 05:49 PM
Is the nuke the one that Baltar had from Season 1 when he told Adama that he needed a nuclear warhead for his Cylon Detector?

Helo's determination to sacrifice himself, if need be, for Boomer and his son was touching.

Blue Banrigh
January 21st, 2006, 05:53 PM
Helo's determination to sacrifice himself, if need be, for Boomer and his son was touching.
I'm still wondering who he was planning to shoot. Adama? The guards? Love the sentiment, but shooting someone in front of Adama would have seriously been detrimental to Sharon's and the baby's wellbeing.

And the baby is a girl. :p Sharon mentioned that in Home, can't recall what part though.

somedude
January 21st, 2006, 05:56 PM
I'm still wondering who he was planning to shoot. Adama? The guards? Love the sentiment, but shooting someone in front of Adama would have seriously been detrimental to Sharon's and the baby's wellbeing.

And the baby is a girl. :p Sharon mentioned that in Home, can't recall what part though.

Was it a girl? oops.:)

somedude
January 21st, 2006, 05:57 PM
Watch the episode again, but go through Roslin's flashbacks to Caprica in freeze frame. This is the same scene, but from Roslin's point of view. There's rather a lot of people in the background carrying silver suitcases like number 6, and a few are very familiar faces (I'm not talking about Baltar and number 6; they're the obvious ones) who really shouldn't be on Caprica at this time. Is this the Cylons gathering to plant the nuclear devices on Caprica: the beginning of the attack? I'll wait for other people to watch the scenes again before I say who I think I've seen in these scenes. If these people are who I think though, I have NO idea where Battlestar's heading now!

Janine

I don't think we ever see who Six meets- did RM say anything about this in his podcast?

I'm looking at the 2:30-3 min mark, and all I see is Baltar meeting Six.

captainpash
January 21st, 2006, 06:09 PM
I don't remeber seeing anything, but I don't have it recored so I can't say either way.

dec55
January 21st, 2006, 06:43 PM
What? New ad?
I am from California......and during the brake they showed Sharon's baby
in a CGI sequence...saying something about the child changing everything.....
It was cool......:ronan:

(The baby girl also had a blinking back like her mommy too!!!!)

Blue Banrigh
January 21st, 2006, 06:44 PM
I am from California......and during the brake they showed Sharons baby
in a CGI sequence...saying something about the child changing everything.....
It was cool......:ronan:
Cool, I wonder if it's up anywhere.

Does anybody know if RDM has certain plans for the baby? Or are they making it up as they go along?

Thermonuclearboy
January 21st, 2006, 07:13 PM
Well, it seems that part of my theory is true: Colonial government was harsh. President Adar seemed pretty unpleasant, willing to meet protestors with military force and all (and he's played by Colm Feore, which can NEVER be a good thing). I have a better sense of what Tom Zarek was now; perhaps he was just the most extreme of many activists protesting against a reactionary government. Perhaps the reason there's so much implied unrest in the Fleet is more than just the stress of running for their lives. Perhaps the government was on the verge of collapse even before the Cylons attacked.

lancecrow
January 21st, 2006, 07:30 PM
Is it just me or do the eps seem increasingly chaotic and sloppy? It feels like - and I'm just guessing here - that the writers are having a hard time sticking to the broadcast time of 40 minutes and thus, the eps get truncated in post, making them feel a little less smooth than they otherwise might. The Pegasus ep, particularly part 1, moved at rocket speed and almost gave me whiplash. This last one, Epiphanies, had me going "Wait, what?" and "Hold on, Where did that come from?" more often than not. I felt like I was moving my way across a stream, hopping from rock to rock. This show is just so THICK. I think they really need to pace themselves or they could easily find themselves splaying, story-wise. That's my two cents, anyway.

It's still the best written show on TV. Hands down.

GALACTIC MYTH
January 21st, 2006, 08:53 PM
Is it just me or do the eps seem increasingly chaotic and sloppy? It feels like - and I'm just guessing here - that the writers are having a hard time sticking to the broadcast time of 40 minutes and thus, the eps get truncated in post, making them feel a little less smooth than they otherwise might. The Pegasus ep, particularly part 1, moved at rocket speed and almost gave me whiplash. This last one, Epiphanies, had me going "Wait, what?" and "Hold on, Where did that come from?" more often than not. I felt like I was moving my way across a stream, hopping from rock to rock. This show is just so THICK. I think they really need to pace themselves or they could easily find themselves splaying, story-wise. That's my two cents, anyway.

It's still the best written show on TV. Hands down.

I think this episode was suppose to do that to you. Catch you off guard and make you think of what type of influences are happening on the civilian ships. It was a lot, of info thrown at you at once, but I enjoyed it because it made you stop on your feet and back peddle a bit. Well thats what I think.

keshou
January 21st, 2006, 09:01 PM
There was some interesting stuff in this episode but I can't say it was one of my favorites.

I knew Roslin was going to "get better" but the whole "Cylon baby abortion / last minute reprieve to "cure" Roslin didn't work that well for me. Still, Roslin's a great character so I'm glad she's going to stick around for awhile.

The whole subversive civilian group story also didn't do much for me but maybe that plot will gel later on. Right now they seem like the stupidest people ever. Gina joining the group even seems MORE unlikely. And great - they have a nuke now. Baltar's ego will be his undoing.

I did enjoy the Roslin flashbacks, helped establish some backstory for her character. The relationship with Adar was certainly out of left field but an interesting development. So she remembered seeing Baltar with Six? What will she do with this knowledge? Heck, they ought to do a mental exam on the guy at the very least - half the ship must have seen him talking to himself and generally acting nutty by this time.

Grace Parks did an excellent job here as Sharon. Poor Helo - I can't see this ending well for him. :o

viper7
January 22nd, 2006, 01:06 AM
Hello everyone,

First time writing in the forum. Very excited about that.

I am such a huge fan of the new series. It rocks!!! I just finishing seeing this episode and I must say that I enjoyed it very much. It is definitely one of the best in my book.

I wanted to comment on some of the things that many have said concerning this new peace movement and also about gina.

Peace Movement: I guess I could see this new faction developing. I feel they are completely nuts. The cyclons killed there families, friends, destroying everything that they hold dear and they want peace with them. But, I look at it like this. You have the last of the human race living on these ships running from the cylons and fighting them day in a day out trying to survive. Waking up every morning wondering if the cylons are going to attack, knowing that the cylons have a greater force and the fact that many might be on the ship( i think it was 8 that sharon had mention to baltar before). It has to drive people nuts after while. Like adama said in his speech to everyone at the end of the miniseries, (no allies, limited fuel, no hope). I guess they decided hey, we are not going to make it out of this alive and that sooner or later the cylons are going to get us so we should settle for peace and that hopefully this time the cylons will respond, as they did not when president adar told them in the miniseries. They are getting very desparate and i guess tired of living like this. Also, gina is a cylon and cylons are good a minipulating people. It is definitely possible that she really got in to those people heads and made them believe is is possible to have peace with them.

Gina: I also listened to RM podcast on this episode on the fact the Gina disguise is like clark kent. Hey, if superman can do it why not her. Also, one has to remember that not everything is black and white with an episode. I agree with what someone else mentioned that there is a possibility that some of the members of the movement know that she is a cyclon and are keeping her safe from all others and of course the public. She is like a silent partner in the movement. I won't be surprised if the later episodes show us how she got started in the movement and why those humans joined her.

Baltar: Love his scenes. Him and six are the perfect couple. Concerning the warhead that was given to gina. I guess he was really pissed of at roslin for the comments she made in the letter. Baltar is no fool. He is a genius. Getting that warhead through security and not getting it detected can only be done by him.

Roslin: Glad she lived. She is one of the main characters on the show. Killing her is like killing starbuck or apollo. After seeing her and adama together in that last scene in resurrection ship part 2 where he was promoted to admiral, there is no way i wanted her to leave the show. The show needs president Roslin.

Last but not least, I love this friction going on between starbuck and kat. Could it be the beginning of things to come between them????

Sorry for writing so much, but i am so exciting about joining and writing about the best show on t.v. ( I hope i made sense in some of the things i said)

Take care everyone and hope to write to you some more in the next weeks to come. (I promise not as much)

Bye!!!!!!!!!!

GateTrek2004
January 22nd, 2006, 02:10 AM
Love the little commercial of BSG and Sharon's baby though.....kinda
spoiled the audience who wondered what was the fate of Boomer and her
baby.... Grace rocked in this eppy!!!!!!

i totally agree! i loved that. i thought it was a scifi comerical about some other show and then i saw the spine glow red my draw dropped. it was sooooo cool.

GateTrek2004
January 22nd, 2006, 02:17 AM
Hello everyone,

First time writing in the forum. Very excited about that.

I am such a huge fan of the new series. It rocks!!! I just finishing seeing this episode and I must say that I enjoyed it very much. It is definitely one of the best in my book.

Take care everyone and hope to write to you some more in the next weeks to come. (I promise not as much)

Bye!!!!!!!!!!

just like to welcome you to the forum!

Othere
January 22nd, 2006, 03:35 AM
wait i think i found it, it's when she says that the teachers strike is not worth dying for .. she looks and the guy she's talking to looks also .. there are 4 people talking, 3 females 1 male. 1 of the females does look like roslin from the back, the guy was wearing a uniform but i cant make a face and the 2 other women, i really can't tell, also in the upper left corner, you see baltar and #6 walking .. or is it baltar n #6?

Hi, I'm new here. Just wanted to comment on this weeks episode:
RE: the people with suitcases.
There is a man in military uniform that walks behind Roslin in that scene. The others I’m not sure – I see those suitcases and they are very similar to the one that was taken off the Galactica in 2.13

Then there is the scene where she says 'Not this one' - and then looks over the shoulder of the Union guy to the group standing on the grass. One kinda does look like Roslin, another vaguely like Six. And that Miliary guy is there as well - and they all appear to have suitcases.
Pretty much everyone is carrying a suitcase/briefcase of the same colour. Weird.

There also appear to be quite a few more bods in miltary uniform at this point walking behind her (up on the steps)
This could all just be down to havign a military base near by or perhaps it is in the grounds of the governmental area - hence the reason everyone is carrying a case with them - or is it somethign more sinister?!
I do find it odd though that the Union guy is the only person (apart form Roslin in this scene) carrying a different case.

I hadn;t picked this up until you mentioned it. Wondering if it is coincidence or if it was deliberate.

Also there is some similarity between the Roslin and the Boomer shot as they get wheeled to the Infirmary. Both are shot from above the character on what appears to be the same gurney. Is this to imply that they have something in common – as indicated by later scenes where Roslin gets better?
Nice photography though.

RE: Peace movement: This whole peace movement thing is pretty cool. I had my theory about D'anna, the reporter. At the end of 208 (final cut) she is sat there with the Cylon agents but I'm still wondering if she actually is a cylon. I mean are we meant to think she is a cylon, or is she jus working for them - part of this peace movement thing? I'm also wondering if they are not holed up somewhere within the fleet itself (which would explain how she was sat there talking to them - surely the military would be monitoring any ship movement within the fleet and if D'anna had flown off somewhere it would have been noticed?!)

I must admit I am really intrigued as to where they are going with this and really looking forward to the next episode!
I love htis show, all the subtle things that happen and the depth of the characters - I htink this has to be one of the best (if not the best) show on at the moment!

thecilantro
January 22nd, 2006, 08:49 AM
i also forgot to mention... yes gina with her hair pulled back and actually wearing clothes does look different from #6 but hello one could still recognize her.

i mean, after 6 months give or take out in space this BLOND women comes in out of nowhere and is now some sort of leader of a movement that now wants peace with the cylons? that aspect felt like hole in the plot

i REALLY hate to admit this but when i first saw her it actually took me a few seconds to figure out it was gina. i mean everything was a dead giveaway but the glasses really threw me for a loop around the park.

Liebestraume
January 22nd, 2006, 09:04 AM
Welcome to all the new members! :)


There's no way to be 100% sure, as the people are all in the background and you never get a face on, good look at them, but I'm pretty sure amongst the case carriers I've seen Starbuck, Boomer, some guy from Pegasus that I cannot remember the name of right now, a number 6 copy, and a Roslin copy. The Roslin one is the weirdest. Watch the flashback scenes again. It honestly looks like Roslin is standing there watching a copy of herself with a suitcase talking to Pegasus guy and two others with cases.That's very interesting! By Roslin Copy, do you mean the woman in the background talking to a couple guys, with her back to the camera? Actually, it was the blonde woman next to them, head down, and rammaging through her briefcase, that caught my attention. I kept going over that scene, trying to identify her; but so far I came up with nothing. I don't think that's a Six Copy, though, because her figure looked a little different from TH's. D'Ana maybe?


I don't think we ever see who Six meets- did RM say anything about this in his podcast?I don't remember if it was RDM who said it, but I was looking out for the same thing as you were. In the mini, Six told Baltar she had to meet someone and left his house. Since all we saw last night was Six meeting Baltar (as you pointed out), should we then assume we were witnessing her meeting with a Baltar Copy? Or maybe we missed something? What about the group of people they walked by? Maybe Six passed one of them something a la Sydney Bristow. (Ok, I just don't want Baltar to be a Cylon. :o)


Cool, I wonder if it's up anywhere.Hope you can eventually find the ad, because it is ... interesting to say the least. It started out like some pro-life thingie, morphing into the 2001 StarChild, then morphing into BSG Cylon. As for Sharon's child, I have the same question as you do -- do we even know if RDM will let be born?

Overall, I agree with posts that say this is not BSG's most impressive outing. Some of the chronology didn't work very well for me, and the suspension of disbelief was stretched a bittoo thin at certain parts. I think this show is usually much better about stuff like that.

That being said, I love how the episode fleshed out some characters and set up the turning points for them. Consider, for example, Baltar. "I am not who you think I am, and I will not be responsible for the destruction of mankind." I was all proud of him, for all of 5 seconds. Then he turned from a selfish coward into a petty hypocrite. "After all I"ve done for the fleet, after all I've done for her ..." So he felt betrayed? After he had betrayed everyone around him, how delicious was the irony? Nerev mind what Roslin said about him was all true, it's how-dare-you-well-I'll-show-you. What a loathsome human being! And how much more human can this character get? Great stuff.

By the same token, my respect for Roslin grew. She had hoped to appeal to the better side of Baltar's humanity but refused to coddle to the baser. "... your intelligence is unleavened by compassion" might not be the flattery that Baltar was expecting, but it was her responsibility, as his predecessor, to remind him of that. I think the same sense of responsibility drove her to order Sharon's abortion. She genuinely believed the baby would post a threat to the fleet, and she didn't want to leave the mess in Adama's hands.

Here is a woman who is basically a "dove" but will become a "eagle" when fighting for what she believes is right. That is what the flashback scenes told us, and that she learned the political backroom-dealing from the best -- or the worst, depending on perspective -- through prodessional and personal betrayal. It will interesting to see how she governs now that she appears to be getting a new lease on life. (Incidentally, Adama was right about Adar. Heee!)

As for the Peace Activists, I totally agree with keshou's succinct assessment:

Right now they seem like the stupidest people ever. Maybe that's just BSG's version of "Stockholm Syndrome"

thecilantro
January 22nd, 2006, 09:33 AM
i just want to point out that every race has alot of stupid people. i cant believe anyone is suprised some people joined this peace movement.

Janine
January 22nd, 2006, 09:59 AM
Okay, here's how I found the background people. The first shot is around 2 mins, 20 seconds in. Roslin has a flashback to Caprica, then back to present, then back to Caprica again. In the second Caprica scene, she's walking by the water with that teacher guy. Watch carefully when the teacher guy goes out of the shot: is that Boomer on the right? Military uniform, dark hair, suitcase, definitely female. Roslin then sees Baltar and #6 meeting. There's a military guy with a case in front of them in the shot who looks familiar. The camera then goes back to Roslin, then to #6 and Baltar again. As they walk away, a woman with blonde hair, sunglasses, military uniform and a case comes into shot in the right - Starbuck? The other scene is about 16 minutes in, and I have a few screenshots, though you may find clearer shots yourself watching it on freeze frame.
Screen shots : http://freespace.virgin.net/myk.harwood/Battlestar/


What does everyone think? Coinicidences to get nuts like us watching on freeze frame convincing ourselves there's more to it, or subtle clues we'll later see in more flashbacks revealing what we think we're seeing now to be massive bombshells?

Janine

donniepw
January 22nd, 2006, 10:00 AM
Welcome to all the new members! :)

(Incidentally, Adama was right about Adar. Heee!)



Adama did say Adar was an idiot didn't he.

somedude
January 22nd, 2006, 10:22 AM
Okay, here's how I found the background people. The first shot is around 2 mins, 20 seconds in. Roslin has a flashback to Caprica, then back to present, then back to Caprica again. In the second Caprica scene, she's walking by the water with that teacher guy. Watch carefully when the teacher guy goes out of the shot: is that Boomer on the right? Military uniform, dark hair, suitcase, definitely female. Roslin then sees Baltar and #6 meeting. There's a military guy with a case in front of them in the shot who looks familiar. The camera then goes back to Roslin, then to #6 and Baltar again. As they walk away, a woman with blonde hair, sunglasses, military uniform and a case comes into shot in the right - Starbuck? The other scene is about 16 minutes in, and I have a few screenshots, though you may find clearer shots yourself watching it on freeze frame.
Screen shots : http://freespace.virgin.net/myk.harwood/Battlestar/


What does everyone think? Coinicidences to get nuts like us watching on freeze frame convincing ourselves there's more to it, or subtle clues we'll later see in more flashbacks revealing what we think we're seeing now to be massive bombshells?

Janine

nice screencaps. Hard to say- since that's the original scene in the mini-series where Baltar meets #6, we don't get to see who 6 meets afterwards. Looks like everyone and their uncle has a briefcase.

Othere
January 22nd, 2006, 10:29 AM
Okay, here's how I found the background people. The first shot is around 2 mins, 20 seconds in. Roslin has a flashback to Caprica, then back to present, then back to Caprica again. In the second Caprica scene, she's walking by the water with that teacher guy. Watch carefully when the teacher guy goes out of the shot: is that Boomer on the right? Military uniform, dark hair, suitcase, definitely female. Roslin then sees Baltar and #6 meeting. There's a military guy with a case in front of them in the shot who looks familiar. The camera then goes back to Roslin, then to #6 and Baltar again. As they walk away, a woman with blonde hair, sunglasses, military uniform and a case comes into shot in the right - Starbuck? The other scene is about 16 minutes in, and I have a few screenshots, though you may find clearer shots yourself watching it on freeze frame.
Screen shots : http://freespace.virgin.net/myk.harwood/Battlestar/


Yeah, thats pretty much what I thought. I am sure I recognise the Miltary guy from somewhere.

userfriendly
January 22nd, 2006, 12:02 PM
wait i think i found it, it's when she says that the teachers strike is not worth dying for .. she looks and the guy she's talking to looks also .. there are 4 people talking, 3 females 1 male. 1 of the females does look like roslin from the back, the guy was wearing a uniform but i cant make a face and the 2 other women, i really can't tell, also in the upper left corner, you see baltar and #6 walking .. or is it baltar n #6?

i know Janine has already posted some screencaps, i captured some additional images from the flashback-scenes. obviously roslin sees baltar meeting with a blonde (six). i don't know if those other people were meant to represent characters we do or do not suspect at this point to be cylons, but... look for yourself:

http://mo.virtual-bunker.de/pics/caprica.01.jpg
this one, along with the next two, is from the first scene. while roslins attention at this moment belongs to her conversational partner, we see that white or silver suitcases are not that an uncommon view, neither are colonial uniforms.

http://mo.virtual-bunker.de/pics/caprica.02.jpg
here roslin spots baltar as he meets six. there is also a colonial officer in the caption, but i don't think we can pinpoint him and the others to any ship or even if we could, it wouldn't be very useful.

http://mo.virtual-bunker.de/pics/caprica.03.jpg
this one, only a few frames after the last one is quite interesting, as the woman who baltar passes as he and six walk along looks imho a little bit like sharon, but again, we can't say much as the image isn't that sharp. i tried several times to get a clearer frame but this was the best one.

http://mo.virtual-bunker.de/pics/caprica.04.jpg
this is from the scene where roslin has her line about "reasons worth dying for? not this one". as she looks again in baltar's direction we see him and six and a gathering of four people with suitcases - one of them indeed does look like roslin from behind, but hey, how many times you thought you'd spotted someone familiar only to realize you're wrong as soon as the person turns around? about the other three, i don't know... two female students and another random colonial officer?

http://mo.virtual-bunker.de/pics/caprica.05.jpg
ok, another "shot from behind", but the two ladies standing close together left from roslin look like... uhm... six and deanna biers from behind? ok, that doesn't say much, see above.

http://mo.virtual-bunker.de/pics/caprica.06.jpg
and finally, the scene roslin remembers before waking up from the shock her body is in due to the cylon blood injection. in her flashback she clearly sees the face of one known cylon model and relates it to baltar (he is meeting her). then she wakes up, looks at sharon (another cylon) and then the next face she sees is baltar and she instinctively shies away from him.

it will be interesting to see if roslin remembers that particular flashback when she's on her feet again, and if so, how much will she believe what she has seen? after all, it might just have been a feverish dream while dying.

SlytherinGal
January 22nd, 2006, 01:24 PM
okay, there is something about this episode that really got to me..and i mean that in a good way...i LOVED the eppy :D

now, i need your guys' opinion on something, after seeing this eppy, do you think Baltar is going to turn against Adama and Roslin and the fleet somehow?

HarshCritic
January 22nd, 2006, 01:53 PM
Well, we only know that they know she's a Cylons because we seen the portfolio of 'Known Cylons' on the President's desk when Vice President Baltar sat down and read it. The only public announcement they had made about known Cylons was about Leoben Conoyand and that other cylon, the tourist guide one from the mini-series (forget his name but feel free to correct me, thanks). Sure, they could have revealed to the public about Six being another known Cylon without showing it on the episodes but they would have atleast mentioned it too. Even if it was revealed to the public through any sort of broadcast, cultists usually don't listen or regard the news at all as fact or even with rationale. So it's not a huge stretch to say that they wouldn't know she's a Cylon but I don't think that it was even revealed to the masses, yet.

In the episode where they decide to reveal to the public about cylons looking like humans. I think it was the with Doral, but I am not sure. Either Roslin or Adama mention putting pictures of all known cylons up throughout the fleet. It is hard to believe people wouldn't have paid attention to this photos after an announcemnet like that.

I think that maybe Thrace is pregnant and the cylon baby in the commercial may be hers. In the very first scenes of the episode, she was not her usual self.

userfriendly
January 22nd, 2006, 02:15 PM
... It is hard to believe people wouldn't have paid attention to this photos after an announcemnet like that...
the dialogue between baltar and gina is clear about that (at 24 min 26 sec) - when the guard has left the room, baltar asks her "do they have any idea what you are?" and she replies "of course not, even their dedication has limits."

Oka
January 22nd, 2006, 03:05 PM
The man in uniform looks like Fisk. Anyone agree?

ToasterOnFire
January 22nd, 2006, 03:26 PM
It was a slower episode this week, which is just fine since I'm still recovering from the nail-biting tension and pace of the trilogy. I knew that the Pres wasn't going to die in this ep and the previews sort of gave away the solution to her ills so I wasn't at the edge of my seat here. Still, it was a nice character study of Roslin and continued to show Baltar's decline to the dark side.

-I enjoyed Roslin's flashbacks with the last pres. She does seem to have a thing for men in power, doesn't she? :D I'm also interested in seeing where they go with the Six flashbacks - is Roslin going to implicate Baltar and remove him as VP?

-The whole peace movement subplot was rather absurd, but at least it moved along Gina's plotline. I say give the bunch a ship and leave them behind to negotiate peace with the cyclons.

-Baltar is turning into quite the ick, isn't he? I can't believe he couldn't control himself around Gina. Creepy. I am a bit confused as to how Baltar managed to smuggle a warhead between ships. Weren't there nuclear detectors or something?

userfriendly
January 22nd, 2006, 05:36 PM
The man in uniform looks like Fisk. Anyone agree?
i really think the only people of interest here are baltar and six - all others are merely supernumeraries. i mean, come on... why should there be such a gathering of cylon agents in one small location? and fisk is too old to be a cylon as is roslin.

entil2001
January 22nd, 2006, 05:37 PM
As I had anticipated, this episode was a bit of a letdown after the previous installment’s near-perfection. But it wasn’t a complete and total loss by any means. A lot of plot threads are addressed along the way, and the writers put the pieces for the final arc of the season on the board. In fact, one critical piece is dropped right into the center of the board in the final scene, paying off a dangling plot element from early in the first season.

In my review for a recent episode of “Stargate: SG-1” (ep. 9-12), I noted that the episode in question could have benefited from taking the format adopted by “Lost” to explore the past of a main character through flashbacks. This episode actually proves my point. This episode was very much in the vein of “Lost” in terms of Roslin’s flashbacks, and though the circumstances were very different, it allowed events from the past to intersect and influence the present and future.

It makes perfect sense that some segment of the human population would wonder if surrender to the Cylons could be a viable option. It’s likely that they don’t know or willfully forget that surrender was offered during the original attack. Whatever the case, if there were those who were still ready to return to the Colonies and fight back, despite the odds, the opposing point of view would naturally emerge. What’s interesting is how easily they were pushed, presumably by Gina, towards violence.

Of course, that makes sense. With the Cylon fleet now out of the picture, the Cylons within the Colonial Fleet need to take the steps necessary to achieve the overall goal, which means subversion from within. I also expect that these actions will give another Cylon fleet a chance to make a move. (It’s no guarantee that the Cylons don’t already have another fleet in position, but it would make things more interesting if the action focused on the Colonial internal issues for a while.)

Roslin certainly has an interesting past (teachers in a violent strike and sleeping with the President?), but most important, I think, is her memory of Baltar and Six. If she had doubts about Baltar before, she certainly has more of them now! Something tells me Mr. Nice Gaius is going to be a primary focus through the rest of the season, especially his interplay with Gina. Speaking of which, I loved how she reacted to his overtures.

As for the Cylon child and the danger it poses, I can see why Roslon would be so adamant, but exactly what is she afraid of? More importantly, she’s missing something critical. The child is the result of a union between human and Cylon, which means genetic compatibility. Her own restoration is proof enough of that (as convenient, yet inevitable, as it was). Letting the child be born and then studying it is one way to understand the enemy. After all, there’d be a true Cylon (Sharon), humans, and the hybrid…three degrees of differentiation. The real question, morally, is whether or not that study would be on living tissue.

I agree with Ron Moore on one thing. As great as it is to have so many plot threads carried forward in this episode, it just doesn’t come together as well as it could have. For one thing, as the secret leader of the Cylon Sympathizers, Gina is in rather comfortable quarters. Ron says it’s a brothel; there’s nothing in frame to suggest that. It could have been much worse of a letdown, but that said, it’s still a bit of a letdown.

userfriendly
January 22nd, 2006, 05:49 PM
i think he mentioned something like they wanted to make it a brothel first but in the final draft it turned out to be a simple hotel room. when he says "back at the brothel" in the podcast he's just joking or not?

voigtstr
January 22nd, 2006, 06:22 PM
I was hoping that when we saw 6 and Baltar together through Roslyn's eyes that we would also see who 6 was meeting when she was waiting for someone during the pilot.

Lady Snow
January 22nd, 2006, 08:35 PM
The man in uniform looks like Fisk. Anyone agree?

That was actually my first thought when I saw the screencaps. The man has the same head, which was a hint for me. It would be... funny, I guess... if Fisk were a Cylon, but I like him too much to honestly wish that upon him :)

alaskannut
January 23rd, 2006, 12:27 AM
I basically don't understand the need for a group of people wanting peace with the cylons. granted not everyone may know the whole facts but really now, didn't the events in "33" tell these people anything. do you think the next time a cylon ship arrives, they will respond with hails of peace ?
Never underestimate either the stupidity or the gullibility of people

triabita
January 23rd, 2006, 03:01 AM
Hello, nasty rant slightly off topic follows...

Baltar: Ok, can someone explain to me how a guy jerking around, talking to himself be the vice president of the colonies?

He has been cought too many times from various personel varying from random crew up to Roslin and Adama to literaly jerk and act totaly insane (this episode he was choking himself by pulling his own tie, frame with a crew member looking at him).

His scientific mastermind is still not enough to not have raised one single eyebrow throught the whole series.

Also i am under the impression that no man could stay sain should he be exposed to such an experience as Baltar, having a second persona (#6) constantly in his mind.

apart from that, i really love BSG =)

--===KILL BALTAR===--

Othere
January 23rd, 2006, 05:05 AM
The man in uniform looks like Fisk. Anyone agree?

He looks too well built to be Fisk (could be mistaken though)
I think he looks similar to one of the two thugs who tried it on with Helo and the Chief in the Brig last week.

Cathara
January 23rd, 2006, 05:42 AM
I felt this was a great episode, as always! Didn't leave me as breathless as usual - but I was still locked to the screen every minute, trying to absorb all the aspects of what I was seeing...great TV!

Several thoughts (sorry so long)...

* I am not surprised at the formation of the peace movement. I think something like it was inevitable. My impression was that the movement had only recently become organized (this from a comment Baltar made when he was shown a brochure.)

Gina's arrival (Clark Kent disguise - LOL!) has taken a group of frightened people that did nothing but talk before and turned them into a subversive group capable of violence. Scary! Bad Cylon! Very naughty!

* Roslin's flashbacks - I will have to go back and look at them again, but one thing I would keep in mind is that the human mind is a funny thing. Dreams and even memories can play tricks with it. I think Roslin's mind had been trying to tell her something about Baltar for a while now.

All of the suspicious figures found in those flashback scenes, the similar cases, etc. could be a result of Roslin's mind mixing up elements - all pointing towards the key factor of Baltar's involvement with a Cylon. Or it could just be the writer's of the show messing with us. Or we could just be reading way too much into things... No matter what, it's still fun to speculate.

* The almost abortion - That was not cool. I respect the characters of Roslin and Adama tremendously, but I think they were way off base with the call to abort the baby. Because of anomalies in it's blood? No better reason than that? I just couldn't understand the justification.

IMHO - The truth is...the baby was to be killed because they were frighted of what it might be. Just as they are still frightened of Sharon. With good cause, and I'll grant that easily.

I just keep going back to the thought that there might be no better way to end the conflict between human and cylon than for them both to have the same "grandchildren", so to speak.

This baby - and any like it to follow - could be the fleet's best hope. Or it's worst. It's random - and that makes it very interesting!

* Finally, I think that the scene of Roslin watching pregnant Boomer at the end of the show was important. Roslin's eyes seemed to show that she was seeing a pregnant woman lovingly communing with her unborn child, not just a cylon prisoner. Of course, she owed her life to said woman/child so maybe, just maybe her attitude will soften a bit now.

But will Sharon be receptive at this point? After a near rape? After an abortion that almost was forced? I think she will still want to take Helo and get the frack out of there - and I might feel the same way myself!

* I can't end my post without a comment on Baltar. Poor Gaius - he is really, really screwed up. He's like a ping pong ball, knocked here and there by his own emotions, Six's manipulations, etc.

He had one brief, shining moment of standing up for what was right! Not only his speech to Gina, but then his efforts to save both the baby and Roslin.

I think that note from Roslin cut through the good (if smug) feelings he had and reminded him that a few good deeds would not be enough to erase his past.

He is a loose canon - very dangerous, very smart, and somewhat unpredictable. I look forward to seeing the way he develops in future episodes!

yaaayoubetcha
January 23rd, 2006, 07:10 AM
here's a thought i had after watching this ep...

we all assume Baltar will eventually go to the Cylon side and perhaps even become the Imperious Leader...but that's based only on what happened in the original.

now we have an ep where the President gets injected with DNA of a partly unkonwn nature which both doctors can only describe as strange.

we know the blood, or something in it, wipes out the cancer...but what else might it have done/be doing to her?

in the original, Baltar was already in a position of power for the final betrayal of the colonies to the cylons.

in this version, baltar played a role in the betrayal but has not yet jumped ship and has done his best to safeguard himself so as not to be discovered while trying to come to terms with 6 in the head and his part in the destruction of the colonies, but in general, has been acting to be a benefit to the survivors...we assume as a ploy until he makes his move.

but over there, already a leader and getting a bit more dark since the beginning of the season is Roslyn...newly injected with a foreign substance...perhaps turning into something Imperious as the cylon substance has more time to get into her body.

just a thought that occured to me....

perhaps it was addressed in a spoiler somewhere or a podcast....i don't listen to them...

SlytherinGal
January 23rd, 2006, 07:11 AM
Hello, nasty rant slightly off topic follows...

Baltar: Ok, can someone explain to me how a guy jerking around, talking to himself be the vice president of the colonies?

He has been cought too many times from various personel varying from random crew up to Roslin and Adama to literaly jerk and act totaly insane (this episode he was choking himself by pulling his own tie, frame with a crew member looking at him).

His scientific mastermind is still not enough to not have raised one single eyebrow throught the whole series.

Also i am under the impression that no man could stay sain should he be exposed to such an experience as Baltar, having a second persona (#6) constantly in his mind.

apart from that, i really love BSG =)

--===KILL BALTAR===--

I will agree with you on the VP part..but nooo, don't kill Baltar...cuz apart from Lee and Adama..Baltar is my #1 favorite character :p yea, I know...call ME crazy. Yet, I cannot wait until the storyline all unfolds..will Baltar turn against Adama, etc? Epiphanies is my favorite episode of all time thus far :D

somedude
January 23rd, 2006, 08:02 AM
Too bad RM didn't kill off the Yee-Haw boys (the ones who assaulted Helo and the Chief).

userfriendly
January 23rd, 2006, 10:06 AM
Too bad RM didn't kill off the Yee-Haw boys (the ones who assaulted Helo and the Chief).
why? they're fun :D frakking a**holes, but that's exactly the reason they're fun... "the sunshine boys" LOL

Speakfire
January 23rd, 2006, 10:35 AM
I actually though the guy in uniform looks an awful lot like Captain Kelly, the LSO. Taller and not as heavy looking as Fisk.

Also, it looks like Racetrack in a suit walks right past 6 and Gaius in one of the last scenes when they are making out, I think its the one where 6 looks at Roslin.

apollo123
January 23rd, 2006, 01:55 PM
* The almost abortion - That was not cool. I respect the characters of Roslin and Adama tremendously, but I think they were way off base with the call to abort the baby. Because of anomalies in it's blood? No better reason than that? I just couldn't understand the justification.

IMHO - The truth is...the baby was to be killed because they were frighted of what it might be. Just as they are still frightened of Sharon. With good cause, and I'll grant that easily.

I just keep going back to the thought that there might be no better way to end the conflict between human and cylon than for them both to have the same "grandchildren", so to speak.

This baby - and any like it to follow - could be the fleet's best hope. Or it's worst. It's random - and that makes it very interesting!


I thought it made perfect sense to me. Neither Roslyn nor Adama trusts Sharon even after all she's done for them. The other Sharon also did a lot for the fleet, but still ended up shooting Adama. How do they know that this Sharon won't suddenly "activate" and kill again? The same goes for her "baby" (for lack of a better word). They still don't know exactly what she's carrying. From what they can tell, it's a baby. But from they can tell, Sharon is a human being too! What if the Cylons made her pregnant on purpose (which they did!), tricked Helo into thinking that this is his baby, had Sharon come up with this whole act in order to gain sympathy, all so that they would allow her to give birth. Who knows who or what she will give birth to or what its purpose will be. Roslyn has shown that she will not hesitate to blow any Cylon out the nearest airlock. This isn't any different. Also, the fact that you said that the baby could be the fleet's best hope - or it's worse - is more than reason enough for any sane President to say I'm not taking that risk!

userfriendly
January 23rd, 2006, 05:16 PM
of course they had the whole cast in that place - just to have us endlessly debating about it lol

voigtstr
January 23rd, 2006, 09:47 PM
of course they had the whole cast in that place - just to have us endlessly debating about it lol

Or were they simply extras?

anotherquestion
January 23rd, 2006, 10:59 PM
A few questions:

Does anyone else expect there to be more "side effects" to the Cylon transfusion than the quick cure for cancer? After all Baltar sees an "internal 6" without a chip in his head or any Cylon injections.
Does this mean Roslyn will foreswear the use of Kamala extract? What will this do to her status as a religious leader?
What if Roslyn's visions continue even after she ends her previous use of the psychotropic treatment? Will she confess to them and expose herself as possibly being contaminated by Cylon infulences? Will she lose the trust of her constituents if the details of her "treatment" become public?
It wasn't clear from Baltar's explanation if the fetal blood was the only blood without an identifiable "type". This would make sense, otherwise it would be a trivial task to devise a Cylon detector. It seems to me that the implication was that all Cylon blood had this characteristic. If so, why not transfuse from Sharon herself? Why not have regular "donations" from her for an anti-cancer treatment? Why not name the child Panacea?
What's the point of the BSG teaser with the glowing spine on the fetus? Previously it appeared that only sexual activity resulted in this kind of bio-lumenescence (or, perhaps, it is a signal at the very moment of conception, implying that the original six had conceived a child with Baltar). It was a fine teaser, with all ther right ominous overtones, but how seriously are we to take it?

God_Complex
January 23rd, 2006, 11:05 PM
I absolutly love this show. It's amazing, and the nearest show to it's caliber with acting talent is Lost, maybe.. That said, each episode in season two gets better and better...

I fealt sick after watching this episode. I'm all for pro-choice, but the fact that they Gave the "Cylon" none, and her actual reaction was powerful. The scene were Sharon freaks out and shatters the glass with her shoulder/head is amazing and just made me go "Wow."

I'm glad to see Gaiyus be his own man, even if it's killing us all...

SlytherinGal
January 24th, 2006, 11:59 AM
there are so much stuff in this eppy that i want to know about now. one example is the fact that baltar handed over the warhead to gina and that other guy...i want to know what is up with that and if he is gonna turn against adama. i mean no one actually trusts baltar and now that roslin is cured he will not be president now, and now i think he is switching gears into wanting to go "another route" so to speak.

that is my thoughts.

DigiFluid
January 25th, 2006, 08:36 PM
I loved this episode. I thought it was a vast improvement over the last two.

Resurrection Ship (1) felt like a huge letdown after Pegasus, and Resurrection Ship (2) felt like a huge letdown from part 1!

Where Resurrection Ship felt like filler just to establih a couple of new plot threads, while Epiphanies felt like honest-to-Gods storytelling.

MASON
January 27th, 2006, 11:39 AM
Okay, I haven't read over the entirety of this thread yet, but I have to add that I love where RDM et al are taking Gaius' character.

When Gaius countered Gina's demand that he take control of the fleet, as president, and acquiesce to the demands of the Cylon sympathizers, he seemed to make a significant turn, arguably stronger than when he killed Crashdown. He seems unable to come to terms with his selfish nature, but is sure of what he is not, and never wants to be (the architect of mankind's genocide). Before he was hiding from accountability, but now he is choosing to avoid a position in which he could do great harm due to his weakness/love for Gina/Six (I would say he's left Six, in favour of Gina).

The one thing I'll say was disappointing about Baltar's scenes in Epiphanies, was that the coming and going of Six, from shot to shot, felt much more contrived than the first season (it's felt contrived since Pegasus, IMO).

Also, although Roslin's cure was the greatest quick fix I've ever seen, I thought Mary McDonell's performance was excellent. And it partially made up for the somewhat disappointing cure.

Baltar is still one of my favourite characters in the series, no one else wields such a double-edged sword.

userfriendly
January 27th, 2006, 07:22 PM
...

The one thing I'll say was disappointing about Baltar's scenes in Epiphanies, was that the coming and going of Six, from shot to shot, felt much more contrived than the first season (it's felt contrived since Pegasus, IMO).

...

of course :D that's because we don't love her anymore - we've got gina now :P :rolleyes: she's more humanic a cylon than sharon. sharon seems to have at least somewhat of a morale stance, but gina is purely gorgeously evil :D and now that woman's got her hand on a nuclear war head, whooooohoooo :eek: :D

*cough*

:)

MASON
January 27th, 2006, 08:08 PM
of course :D that's because we don't love her anymore - we've got gina now :P :rolleyes: she's more humanic a cylon than sharon. sharon seems to have at least somewhat of a morale stance, but gina is purely gorgeously evil :D and now that woman's got her hand on a nuclear war head, whooooohoooo :eek: :D

*cough*

:)

No, it's not so much that, as the camera work.

Typically, Six would move into a shot unexpectedly and the only time we'd see Gaius wandering aimlessly, or staring into space, were at the end of a scene. I thought there was too much play back and forth within one scene; it seemed a little dumbed down, perhaps for those in the audience that were unacquainted with Gaius' relation to Six.

However, directing, camerawork, and editing aside, I think Six is being played colder than usual, she's generally pissed off and bitter, but lacking that righteous anger that was so frightening and moving. I think this is a conscious effort on Tricia Helfer's part to increase the contrast between Six and Gina, a much warmer character (believing that God would forgive humanity for the destruction of the Resurrection Ship).

On top of that, Gina looks really sexy in glasses. :P

userfriendly
January 27th, 2006, 11:46 PM
On top of that, Gina looks really sexy in glasses. :P
amen to that :D

Amanda Eros
January 28th, 2006, 09:43 AM
I don't know if anyone mentioned this or not, but I was wondering something. (Not a bio major) If human red blood cells have a certain shape to them, and cilons are different. Then wouldn't it be easy to see the difference under a high powered microscope? Or was Baltar just dumbing down his explanation so that we could understand what he was talking about?

LoneStar1836
January 29th, 2006, 02:39 AM
Yeah, red blood cells do have a normal shape unless you have sickle cell anemia, but I think Baltar was referring to more complex biology of red blood cells than the general person would know and not to the actual shape of our red blood cell compared to theirs when he was drawing his nice little picture.

And because I’m no biology major either, I’ll drag out the old human anatomy textbook from college and see what it says. :D

And here’s what it says:

"The clumping of red blood cells when testing for blood compatibility or resulting from a transfusion reaction is called agglutination. This phenomenon is due to a reaction between red blood cell surface molecules called antigens, and protein antibodies carried in the plasma.....Avoiding the mixture of certain kinds of antigens and antibodies prevents adverse transfusion reactions."

So basically because the baby’s red blood cells contained no antigens then there was no fear of the antibodies in Roslin’s blood reacting negatively to the new blood cells being introduced.

I’m guessing though that the white blood cells were super strong and that’s what killed off the cancer cells so quickly since red blood cells have nothing to do with your immunity and fighting disease. They just had to get the blood into her first without her body reacting adversely to it if it was the wrong blood type.

I don’t think he was saying that our red blood cells and theirs differed enough to tell the difference between red blood cells. All I know is it had something to do with the baby’s red blood cells having no antigens attached to them. So I guess they could screen the blood now and look specifically for that anomaly to weed out the Cylons unless this is a new genetic mutation unique to the baby. Otherwise the other Cylons ought to be missing those antigens as well.

Or that's what I'm guessing anyway. :D

Hamyseven
February 8th, 2006, 02:47 PM
When Gaius countered Gina's demand that he take control of the fleet, as president, and acquiesce to the demands of the Cylon sympathizers, he seemed to make a significant turn, arguably stronger than when he killed Crashdown. He seems unable to come to terms with his selfish nature, but is sure of what he is not, and never wants to be (the architect of mankind's genocide). Before he was hiding from accountability, but now he is choosing to avoid a position in which he could do great harm due to his weakness/love for Gina/Six (I would say he's left Six, in favour of Gina).

I haven't had time to read this whole thread yet either, but I do agree that Gaius definately stepped out of the role of bumbling tool of Six into his own man. I think his decision to save Rosalin went south in his mind when he read her letter. I'm sure he was saying to himself "after everything I did for her, she is going to say that about ME!" I truly believe that is when he made the decision to give the nuke to Gina. I just hope that they follow this storyline and don't go back to him being led around by his nose by Six.

Matt G
March 29th, 2006, 01:57 PM
1. Interesting flashbacks. Did those events really happen that close to Caprica getting toasted?

2. So Baltar has a conscience...ish! Cool.

3. I third the talk about stupid people everywhere.

Overall, decent ep but not top class. Wasn't expecting it to bew after the last three though.

DOIKECARTER
March 31st, 2006, 03:16 AM
Okay, I haven't read over the entirety of this thread yet, but I have to add that I love where RDM et al are taking Gaius' character.

When Gaius countered Gina's demand that he take control of the fleet, as president, and acquiesce to the demands of the Cylon sympathizers, he seemed to make a significant turn, arguably stronger than when he killed Crashdown. He seems unable to come to terms with his selfish nature, but is sure of what he is not, and never wants to be (the architect of mankind's genocide). Before he was hiding from accountability, but now he is choosing to avoid a position in which he could do great harm due to his weakness/love for Gina/Six (I would say he's left Six, in favour of Gina).

The one thing I'll say was disappointing about Baltar's scenes in Epiphanies, was that the coming and going of Six, from shot to shot, felt much more contrived than the first season (it's felt contrived since Pegasus, IMO).

Also, although Roslin's cure was the greatest quick fix I've ever seen, I thought Mary McDonell's performance was excellent. And it partially made up for the somewhat disappointing cure.

Baltar is still one of my favourite characters in the series, no one else wields such a double-edged sword.


I´ve been waiting for this episode for months, because Roslin is my fav character and it was pretty obvious that curing her would be at least difficult to explain because of the decission of making the series realistic. Mary mcDonnell did it great and you could believe she wasn´t going to make it. It was more difficult to accept not the concept of the cure but the timeline. Developing new therapies may take years and tons of failures but I prefer ocasional miracle cures than losing Mary. The door still remains open for a relapse, and there are tons of questions; Is Laura´s blood also special by having accepted the cure? Does Laura Roslin have cylon DNA in her system? Do the people know about how the President was cured? Can people accept a healed prophet....and healed by using the enemy´s blood?

I also loved Colm Feore as Richard Adar but the whole episode didn´t do well with the previous references made by Laura during the 1st season (Would this man be able to talk freely about a mistake as Laura told Lee after Olympic Carrier´s destruction? I don´t think so).


Last thing considering why Baltar saved ROSLIN.

1st: Baltar has a really short memory and a really big power of self-deception. He doesn´t accept responsibilities for his actions, he doesn´t feel responsible for the genocide of his race.

2nd: Is he ready to commit himself with the Cylon cause? I don´t think so. He helped Gina, who´d been obviously abused and so did Helo and Chief with Sharon. You can love A Cylon and fight the REST OF THEM. Being the President, at least in Gina´s opinion, he should be in position of surrendering the humans to the cylons. He doesn´t think about himself as a traitor. He doesn´t want that kind of responsibility. He thinks he´s done heroic actions for the Fleet. He may not be ready to commit completely with the Cylons, but he´s helping them...just a bit, well, more than a bit. What the hell was he thinking by giving her a nuke?

3rd: Did Baltar give the nuke to Gina because he realised he hadn´t fooled Roslin and she wasn´t even grateful for what he´d done ?(that was impossible because she thought she was dying). Laura gave him too much credit because she thought he could be compassionated and learn but she got the opposite. I think this letter will definitely backfire to her, badly.

Albion
April 2nd, 2006, 10:03 AM
I really enjoyed this one. I've always liked Roslin, so I'm prepared to suspend any disbelief to see her cured. It'll be interesting to see how she does now, without that constant ill health hanging over her. And I didn't think the baby blood cure was particularly unbelievable or outrageous, considering we're watching SF here.

The one thing which bothered me was why Roslin didn't confide her suspicions that Baltar was a Cylon collaborator (or Cylon himself) when she had her talk with them. She was coherent enough; she could have asked Adama to stay back a moment when the others left. Course she - and he - may have dismissed her fears as just a mixed up dream brought on by her fever and near death. But surely you wouldn't take that chance? This man was going on to be President when she died, for pity's sake! You'd have thought she'd have warned Adama anyway. Even if he didn't believe it was true, he could have kept watch on Baltar in the future until he found out either way. So that made no sense to me.

The abortion order did make sense to me, where it hasn't to others. Of course they're afraid of what Sharon might birth.

Good episode.

Albion :)

DOIKECARTER
April 4th, 2006, 08:42 AM
I really enjoyed this one. I've always liked Roslin, so I'm prepared to suspend any disbelief to see her cured. It'll be interesting to see how she does now, without that constant ill health hanging over her. And I didn't think the baby blood cure was particularly unbelievable or outrageous, considering we're watching SF here.

The one thing which bothered me was why Roslin didn't confide her suspicions that Baltar was a Cylon collaborator (or Cylon himself) when she had her talk with them. She was coherent enough; she could have asked Adama to stay back a moment when the others left. Course she - and he - may have dismissed her fears as just a mixed up dream brought on by her fever and near death. But surely you wouldn't take that chance? This man was going on to be President when she died, for pity's sake! You'd have thought she'd have warned Adama anyway. Even if he didn't believe it was true, he could have kept watch on Baltar in the future until he found out either way. So that made no sense to me.

The abortion order did make sense to me, where it hasn't to others. Of course they're afraid of what Sharon might birth.

Good episode.

Albion :)


Well, she may not believe in those images, dreams or real remembers. How much credit does she give to herself? Besides, she has no real evidence about what kind of relationship or whether Baltar himself knew he was kissing a cylon or not. Last; she has no proof and after KLG she may think Adama wouldn´t believe her or she didn´t want to risk the good relationship between both.

Othere
April 13th, 2006, 06:23 AM
I also loved Colm Feore as Richard Adar but the whole episode didn´t do well with the previous references made by Laura during the 1st season (Would this man be able to talk freely about a mistake as Laura told Lee after Olympic Carrier´s destruction? I don´t think so).


They were having an affair and maybe he told her that in a disarmed, tender moment. He comes across as hard in those scenes because he is working, that is probably not the same Adar we would see at home :)

DOIKECARTER
April 13th, 2006, 08:59 AM
They were having an affair and maybe he told her that in a disarmed, tender moment. He comes across as hard in those scenes because he is working, that is probably not the same Adar we would see at home :)



I´m sure of it, and Colm Feore has a very special pressence on-screen. He hay look menacing, powerful, friendly....in just a second. I guess we just got a glimpse of Laura´s beginning of change and... her master. I always thought Adar would be proud of the President she´s become.

Othere
April 13th, 2006, 10:41 AM
I´m sure of it, and Colm Feore has a very special pressence on-screen. He hay look menacing, powerful, friendly....in just a second. I guess we just got a glimpse of Laura´s beginning of change and... her master. I always thought Adar would be proud of the President she´s become.

I think circumstance has contributed hugely to her change/development. I thnk seeing Adar's heavyhanded response to the teachers strike on the day of destruction made her see that politics is not always as straight cut as it can appear...I dont think she is a bad preszident. I think she is pretty good (and I would trade her any day over phoney Tony:) I think she has had some difficult decisions to make and I've not always agreed with them, but she had the greater good in mind for the most part and she's kept that ragtag fleet together. She's pretty switched on :D
Vote Roslin for president/prime minister ...heee ;)

DOIKECARTER
April 13th, 2006, 11:06 AM
I think circumstance has contributed hugely to her change/development. I thnk seeing Adar's heavyhanded response to the teachers strike on the day of destruction made her see that politics is not always as straight cut as it can appear...I dont think she is a bad preszident. I think she is pretty good (and I would trade her any day over phoney Tony:) I think she has had some difficult decisions to make and I've not always agreed with them, but she had the greater good in mind for the most part and she's kept that ragtag fleet together. She's pretty switched on :D
Vote Roslin for president/prime minister ...heee ;)


I think it´s because of the cancer she began changing....and all the events made the rest. I love how Mary McDonnell makes the character more complex than the actions. Take EPIPHANIES as an example: she was planning to kill an unborn baby, she had suggested an assassination in a previous episode...but Mary makes us think deeper than that. SACRIFICE proved she had a point in considering the pressence of a cylon as a risk for the whole Fleet.

Othere
April 14th, 2006, 03:01 AM
I think it´s because of the cancer she began changing....and all the events made the rest. I love how Mary McDonnell makes the character more complex than the actions. Take EPIPHANIES as an example: she was planning to kill an unborn baby, she had suggested an assassination in a previous episode...but Mary makes us think deeper than that. SACRIFICE proved she had a point in considering the pressence of a cylon as a risk for the whole Fleet.

I <3 airlocks ;)

DOIKECARTER
April 14th, 2006, 03:26 AM
I <3 airlocks ;)


Well, it´s a bit out of topic but Mary´s portrayal takes us deeper than just Laura´s actions. You may read the script and think she doesn´t feel anything...and watch the episode and look at her face and thin she´s doing what she thinks it needs to be done so save the Fleet. I loved her during lasts episodes in season 2..she just needed a single tear or none in CAPTAIN´S HAND and you could feel her pain in making such a decission.

Othere
April 14th, 2006, 10:03 AM
Well, it´s a bit out of topic but Mary´s portrayal takes us deeper than just Laura´s actions. You may read the script and think she doesn´t feel anything...and watch the episode and look at her face and thin she´s doing what she thinks it needs to be done so save the Fleet. I loved her during lasts episodes in season 2..she just needed a single tear or none in CAPTAIN´S HAND and you could feel her pain in making such a decission.

Sure, she is just brillant. Couldn'twouldn't want anyone else for the part.And she isn't afraid (roslin) to stand by her decisions - respect

DOIKECARTER
April 17th, 2006, 01:03 PM
Sure, she is just brillant. Couldn'twouldn't want anyone else for the part.And she isn't afraid (roslin) to stand by her decisions - respect


I guess you know...David Eick and Ron Moore have told several times since the mini that Laura Roslin was written specifically for a "Mary mcDonnell type" and they couldn´t believe theh actually got Mary McDonnell to play the role.

I bought the mini because of her and after I fell for the show and the rest of the cast.

Othere
April 18th, 2006, 02:14 AM
I guess you know...David Eick and Ron Moore have told several times since the mini that Laura Roslin was written specifically for a "Mary mcDonnell type" and they couldn´t believe theh actually got Mary McDonnell to play the role.

I bought the mini because of her and after I fell for the show and the rest of the cast.

TBH, I hated the original series and when I saw the trailer for th mini I rolled my eyes and thought here we go...
My friend bought the DVD and we watched it around his place and I wasn't exactly enthused with the idea. But wow! Am really glad he did. The mini was awesome and I couldn't wait for the series to start. Now, my other half likes it, but he's not quite into it as much as I am, so I'm trying to get him to catch up so he at least knows whats going on. He's still on he 1st series at the moment. Interesting to watch it again after series 2 though. Lots of little things in there that I didn't catch before when I watched it the first time.
I like all the cast, they are really suited for their roles.
Fabbo :)

DOIKECARTER
April 18th, 2006, 03:36 AM
TBH, I hated the original series and when I saw the trailer for th mini I rolled my eyes and thought here we go...
My friend bought the DVD and we watched it around his place and I wasn't exactly enthused with the idea. But wow! Am really glad he did. The mini was awesome and I couldn't wait for the series to start. Now, my other half likes it, but he's not quite into it as much as I am, so I'm trying to get him to catch up so he at least knows whats going on. He's still on he 1st series at the moment. Interesting to watch it again after series 2 though. Lots of little things in there that I didn't catch before when I watched it the first time.
I like all the cast, they are really suited for their roles.
Fabbo :)



Well, I didn´t remember TOS and I have bought it after watching TNS and I don´t want to be too hard on the show.

I´ve been a STARGATE fan since the 2nd season (I thought RDA had made a really big mistake by signing for SG-1 but the show improved and I fell for it after IN THE LINE OF DUTY) an I´ve bought a few SG-1 DVDs from amazon and BSG was between the recommendations and I thought Mary mcDonnell couldn´t be THAT wrong and I remember watching it and trying to take a nap...and I couldn´t sleep because I couldn´t stop! About the characters I love the way they are evolving and changing because it´s more evident than in other shows. I love Starbuck more now than in the mini and I love Laura Roslin despite some of her decissions and I do love Six too. I felt ofended in a way because SCIFICHANNEL used SIX to sell the show and for the promos and I couldn´t believe how they didn´t use the stars of the show...but 3 years later I don´t care about it any longer.

Othere
April 19th, 2006, 05:01 AM
Well, I didn´t remember TOS and I have bought it after watching TNS and I don´t want to be too hard on the show.

I´ve been a STARGATE fan since the 2nd season

On a completely unrelated (well, not that unrelated) we had a Star Gate paintball scenario game last year, complete with gate and all.
We did Star Wars the year before and that was a blast - wonder if we will get a battlestar galactica game in the future :D

DOIKECARTER
April 19th, 2006, 03:47 PM
On a completely unrelated (well, not that unrelated) we had a Star Gate paintball scenario game last year, complete with gate and all.
We did Star Wars the year before and that was a blast - wonder if we will get a battlestar galactica game in the future :D



It looks really funny!....and lots of hard work (wardrobe, the gate itself, effects...)

Othere
April 20th, 2006, 11:13 AM
It looks really funny!....and lots of hard work (wardrobe, the gate itself, effects...)

Its a real blast :D

DOIKECARTER
April 21st, 2006, 05:20 AM
Its a real blast :D



any documentaries, photos..? You definitely should record it! Unfortunately my friends don´t enjoy scifi as well (they say it´s totally unexpected from me) and I join forums to look for scifi lovers as me.

You could try a trek in Kobol maybe..or guerrilla war in New Caprica.

Othere
April 22nd, 2006, 05:41 AM
any documentaries, photos..? You definitely should record it! Unfortunately my friends don´t enjoy scifi as well (they say it´s totally unexpected from me) and I join forums to look for scifi lovers as me.

You could try a trek in Kobol maybe..or guerrilla war in New Caprica.

Can't find the other link but here is the stargate one - http://staargate.ukpsf.com/
It's a shame realy cos the costumes were pretty fab :)

LoneStar1836
June 3rd, 2006, 11:45 AM
Okay I was watching the mini the other day and noticed something that relates back to this episode.

Roslin supposedly saw Baltar and Six together or at least thinks she did. Well how could she have seen them together that day when in the mini she is already on her way to the Galactica before they show those scenes of Baltar (in the pinstripe suit) and Six walking together. In the mini right after those scenes, it then cuts to the soon to be Colonial One landing on Galactica and Roslin coming aboard.

Something I just happened to notice. Minor timeline details that got mixed up perhaps or was it intentional?

MB.Eddie
November 12th, 2006, 09:22 AM
Wasnt all the fussed with this ep. Roslins flashbacks about Baltar were interesting, but i doubt they will be useful, as she cant prove anything.

Baltar using Sharons baby's blood to cure the cancer was a bit odd.
Didnt think much of those 'peace' terrorist types. Baltar giving them a nuke at the end was pretty stupid too.

jadeloves_ADAMA_ROSLIN
March 17th, 2007, 01:07 PM
she's so pale...

glad she didnt die.

would have stopped watching.

Catsitter
September 10th, 2007, 02:06 AM
This whole teachers' strike thing seems totally impossible to me. Was Roslin, as Secretary of Education, in charge of all the schools on all 12 worlds? In the UK alone, we have at least 3 different education systems! (Not sure if Wales has its own chief or not?) How could one person possibly keep on top of the whole thing? If she was supposed to be in charge of it all, I find it very hard to believe that she would be so closely involved in sorting out one strike (surely all the teachers on all 12 worlds weren't on strike at once? In England alone we have several different teachers' unions!) And surely the teachers' pay wasn't negotiated centrally for all 12 worlds.

(Mind you, I find the whole "press pack" thing completely ridiculous every time that crops up, too. It is maybe just that it seems strange that the Colonial government setup is so similar in many ways to the US government! Er, and speaking of the press pack, how come they weren't demanding access to the pres when she was dying?)

Ishay
April 28th, 2009, 06:35 PM
go hera saving the president and baltar FTW i loved that he saved the day finally.

Professor_S
June 8th, 2011, 04:25 PM
Interesting episode, even if a little provocative. I can understand the incredibly difficult position Adama and Roslin are in - they don't have the perspective we do, and they are immersed in a situation that we're not. Further, I found it daring that TPTB put the peace activists in an antagonistic light in this episode. That made me think... reflect upon my own positions. To me, the brilliant thing about BSG and it's willingness to be controversial is the fact that it doesn't try to force you to pick a side; it hurls the audience into a whirling gray-area. Makes us take a second look at positions/answers we thought were certain. I know, personally, some eps made me feel like I didn't know which way was up, metaphorically speaking.

As for the deus ex machina, given how infrequently the device has been used in the show thus far, I was willing to suspend my disbelief. I also adore Laura Roslin's character, so this was MORE than welcomed. What I found interesting was the interesting position this puts Roslin in vis-a-vis Sharon.

As far as the sighting of Baltar and Six on Caprica, I think RDM acknowledged the wardrobe/timeline conceit in one of the podcasts... I can't remember which, right now though.

Ha! I love that Baltar's narcissistic ego compelled him to open Roslin's letter. Loved the letter, too.

As much as this episode elates me because it marks the survival of Laura Roslin, I find it to be a very average episode. Neither terribly impressive nor a great let-down.