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GateWorld
January 2nd, 2006, 07:49 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s2/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/2121.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px solid black" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">GALACTICA SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s2/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">RESURRECTION SHIP,<BR> PART 2</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 212</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
As the Battlestars Galactica and Pegasus launch an attack on the ship that allows Cylons to be downloaded and reborn in a new body, Adama and Cain also plot one another's assassinations.

<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s2/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

somedude
January 13th, 2006, 08:03 PM
ah, what's going on?

Speakfire
January 13th, 2006, 08:05 PM
Wow. What an episode. While somethings I suspected, the how and why of it was way different. Am I the only one who feels like they missed something in regards to Lee and his reactions?

Freyr Vanir
January 13th, 2006, 08:05 PM
Gina lives, Cain dead = me happy ^,^

Also before complaining about anything listen to the podcast.

http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/mp3/212/bsg_ep212_FULL.mp3

Alot of plot things people complain about Moore explains so they make sense.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
January 13th, 2006, 08:05 PM
It was a awesome ep. I give it a ****. I smell emmy nom (and a victory).

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
January 13th, 2006, 08:07 PM
Gina lives, Cain dead = me happy ^,^
I'm happy too, I'm somewhat happy shes dead.

creed462
January 13th, 2006, 08:07 PM
cool ep

Speakfire
January 13th, 2006, 08:08 PM
Just to clarify, we ARE allowed to post spoilers here in the episode commentary in plain text without all the rigamarole, warnings and white-outs, right? Just no where else?

kharn the betrayer
January 13th, 2006, 08:12 PM
OH MY GOD

I have never displayed so many emotions in a single episode of ANY thign before

Every thing was Amazing

and the ending....Im in shock

I just cant explain what im feeling at the moment


the Battle Scenes though not in many had alot of impact for me..... Seeing this small rag tag fleet finnaly get some pay back brought a smile to my face...

BigGator5
January 13th, 2006, 08:13 PM
Bloody hell! I loved this episode, but I wish there was more of the space battle. Hopefully, we will get more space battles in time.

Kilharae
January 13th, 2006, 08:14 PM
Great episode... And I saw that at the end... the only reason lee didn't respond to communication is that he wanted to die. I just don't know why he wanted that. Besides that, I give this episode a 10... incredibly hard hitting... it wasn't what I was expecting it to be at all. This episode involved the good old Giaus (spelled wrong most likely) He's not evil. But he's not good either. I don't know what he is. Maybe he just considers himself detached from humanity. Or maybe he's just completely buying into this whole god stuff.

somedude
January 13th, 2006, 08:14 PM
Did Jester or Stinger, pilots on the Pegasus, die?

Redwall
January 13th, 2006, 08:15 PM
I knew Cain had to die, but I still felt sad about it.

Glad Gina made it, though. I was cheering Baltar on when he ignored (internal) Six.

The scene where Cain told Kara to not flinch was absolutely hilarious.

The bits with Lee were a bit wierd but I suppose (hope) it was just a set up for what's to come (and understandable given that his Beacon of Rightousness (TM), aka Roslin, had betrayed him).

kharn the betrayer
January 13th, 2006, 08:16 PM
Did Jester or Stinger, pilots on the Pegasus, die?

no clue.. I hope they did...they did deserve to die



and Starbucks comment about how the fleet would have been safer with Cain.... my Jaw dropped to the floor at that moment

NakedJehutyV2
January 13th, 2006, 08:18 PM
did six kill cain?

how did apollo get back?

i stepped out of room during said scenes

Speakfire
January 13th, 2006, 08:19 PM
Lee was picked up by the Search and Rescue raptor. Gina killed Cain.. not 6.. Big difference, even though its the same face/body.

NakedJehutyV2
January 13th, 2006, 08:21 PM
gina is a six thus six

kharn the betrayer
January 13th, 2006, 08:21 PM
did six kill cain?

how did apollo get back?

i stepped out of room during said scenes

Yep Gina Killed Cain


and Apollo was picked up by a Raptor

Edit: I posted to late >.>

Carrie
January 13th, 2006, 08:22 PM
and Starbucks comment about how the fleet would have been safer with Cain.... my Jaw dropped to the floor at that moment

She had to say something good about Cain at the funeral.

For one, it's kinda bad to speak ill of the dead.

For two, she probably still has a lot of supporters from the crew. Meaning saying that, in a little room like that, might wind up with a fight breaking out and someone decking her.

Wonder how long Galactica personnel will be on Pegasus. Kara is still a Captain, and still the CAG there as of right now. :)

Speakfire
January 13th, 2006, 08:25 PM
Did you notice that Adama called Lee 'Lieutenant'? That just.. struck me so odd. I wonder if he's got his rank of captain back. I'd presume so just because Tyrol and Helo were released, but.. he seemed in such a funk there is no telling.

kharn the betrayer
January 13th, 2006, 08:31 PM
She had to say something good about Cain at the funeral.

For one, it's kinda bad to speak ill of the dead.

I never said she had to speak ill of her

I could tell that she realy Didnt want to kill Cain and respected her on some level...

But I didnt expect her to say THAT expecialy since she has a Bond with Adama...



any ways Who here is sad that the Black Bird got destroyed....I loved that ship ;_;

Arative
January 13th, 2006, 08:48 PM
I thought Lee wanted to die because he lost faith in his father and Roslin when they conspired to murder Cain. I think he felt that they betrayed the trust placed him. Of course I could be way off.

I really wanted to see more of the space battle and thought that would take up more than a few scenes of the episode but then this is a character driven drama not a special effects, blow em up show. And so long Blackbird, we hardly knew her!

Cain I think redemed herself some in my eyes by not ordering her XO to kill Adama. Sure I still think she's one crazy ***** but I thought she really came back from the brink of total madness.

I was surprised to see Starbuck agree that some of what Cain did may have been the correct course. I don't see Starbuck as a win at all cost type. But she did have a point that maybe Cain had been right instead of running, they should try to fight.

Was cool to see Baltar go more to the dark side but I felt that he gave Gina the gun, not just to see that she could get justice done but so he could get justice too because he was so appalled by what had been to Gina. Baltar for sure will use anyone to get what he wants and he used Gina to kill Cain, even though Gina had every cause to kill Cain. I wonder if Six in the head is gone for ever or will she come back sometime.

Over all, a really excellent episode but it felt like to me that Ressurection, part 1 should have been the mid season break instead of Pegasus but thats just me.

Thor's Pal
January 13th, 2006, 09:03 PM
I think the reason Starbuck said what she did is because she did not know for certan about Pegasus civ fleet and Cain had "bought" her by wanting to not only go back for surviors but to kick Cyclon butts off of the Colonanies.

Mr. Seven
January 13th, 2006, 09:12 PM
For a second there I thought those two Pegasus Specialists were going to prison rape Helo and the Chief, but thankfully that didn't happen. I wouldn't put anything past this bunch. I was actually hoping for the entire ship to be destroyed, cause I think they are all off the reservation. (Even though I read spoilers that said it is around for a while)

Nice that Adama gets promoted to Admiral. Hopefully everything falls in line under his command.

I liked the scene where the Chief moved on. He was just like.."frack this, I'm out of here."

So is it pretty much a given now that Six in Baltar's head was something he made up? Like that Pyramid Game thing was his memory or something? Or do all the Six's share that memory, and Baltar knew that and used it to win over Gina? Interesting stuff. Weird that she killed the guard, he wasn't going anywhere. I guess he might have assaulted her too.

Notice how Admiral Cain never flinched when she was about to get shot. Just like she said in her pep talk with Starbuck. Those two had a nice relationship. I'd say one was the older version of the other. Was Starbuck and Cain on the original series much the same way? Both flamboyant guys?


Best show on TV hands down. Sure the space fight could have been better, but they are on a limited budget. It's good that we got to see some of it at least.

Kilharae
January 13th, 2006, 09:28 PM
It wouldn't make any sense for six to be have made up. Seriously, that whole sports schpeal wouldn't have meant anything to prisnor six if hallusination six wasn't real. And remember, six gave baltar detailed information about the cylons plans at the end of season 1. It wouldn't make any sense at all.

FoolishPleasure
January 13th, 2006, 09:36 PM
Terrific follow-up to last week!

Glad to see Cain "get it", but at the same time, I'm gonna miss that b****. *LOL*

Good battle scenes, great scenes in the control rooms - would Starbuck and the other officer carry out their "missions?" Good tension.

Loved the ending scene with Adama and Roslyn. Had to reach for the Kleenex.

What a great show!

cyke
January 13th, 2006, 09:42 PM
Just when you thought BSG couldn't get any better, they pull out an episode like this !!!!

some quick comments

Dee- what's up with her? Looks like Cylon is written all over her .. but then again, maybe that's what they want us to think

Cain- after both her and Adama decided not to go through with it, i felt bad that she died. once she entered her quarters, i knew that #6 was waiting for her.

Lee- early shot reminded me of "you can't go home again" from season 1. is there friction between him and his dad? aww.. i always like it when the two of them get along

Laura/Adama.. or should i say Adaura, in front of Billy no less ! And looks like by next episode, do i see a cure in sight for her via Sharon's baby and Baltar? you know they had to keep her alive somehow !!

i was at the edge of my seat the whole time and not just cuz there was a huge battle going on. this was the first major offensive the fleet has ever taken, (they took a stand in season 1 to get tillium but thats about it) yet the focus laid within the confines of the characters. great episode indeed !

Liebestraume
January 13th, 2006, 10:24 PM
I thought Part 1 was good but knew Part 2 would top even that. They sure didn't disappoint. Thoughts are still pretty fragmented at the moment, so please bear with the incoherence.

Michelle Forbes rocked as Cain. She managed to give her character a hard edge while imbuing enough humanity to make it sympathetic. And this came through prominently in two scenes tonight. The first one being when Cain was giving Kara the "do not flinch" pep-talk, where I believe she rather suspected that Kara was Adama's hit-woman. The second one being her facing certain death -- she did not flinch, yet her fear was also evident (in her eyes). I suppose I've always had more empathy for Cain than most, so perhaps that's just my biased view.

Cain IMHO is a very tragic figure. Once she had been an outstanding officer and most likely, a decent human being, but I suspect her vision was always a bit skewed, in the sense that her focus was on whom to fight against but not whom to fight for. I think that was at the root of her unraveling. Although in no way am I condoning her wrongdoings (which were numerous), chalking it all to her being "crazy" is perhaps a bit too simplistic. So, in some ways, I can relate to Kara's responding to Cain.

And Lee ... what can I say? I like this character more and more. Tonight it looked like all that repressed emotions finally came to a head, but what struck me most was his sense of loyalty. No knocks to Helo -- whose loyalty to Sharon was extremely moving and endearing -- I think Lee's brand is even more precious. What Kara asked him to do was against everything he believed in; from his latent suicidal urge, one could even say it was against what had sustained him thus far. Yet he still resolved to go through with it, because she was his friend and she needed him. And his last thought -- as far as he knew -- was of her, of how he failed her.

Carbito
January 13th, 2006, 10:36 PM
That was a really good episode. It will be interesting to see the new command structures in the next episode.

ToasterOnFire
January 13th, 2006, 10:43 PM
Wow. I'll post more later, but I was just blown away by this ep. The space battle was absolutely gorgeous, having Lee sink beneath the water to symbolize his impending death was beautiful, and the tension felt by Kara and Fisk was handled with nailbiting perfection. The music made this episode, from the tension of the drums on the post battle bridges to the haunting tune while Lee drifted.

Just...wow. That awful week-long anticipation was more than worth it. :D


ETA: Hot damn, everyone was crying in this episode. I held out, I really did, but seeing Adama tear up in the end made my all misty. *sniff*

LoneStar1836
January 13th, 2006, 10:59 PM
Can I say just WOW! Course I was using more colorful language during the course of the ep. ;)


Excuse the random rambling that follows....

Interestingly paced episode. They didn’t frak around with any unnecessary dialogue or scenes. Though I come away severely craving more from each of the character scenes. (Okay maybe not the Helo/Tyrol beating) I’m glad they just jumped right into the battle and didn’t have some big choreographed space battle with loads of VFX and explosions. They gave us the details of what was going to happen in the last ep. with all the nice little models and that was enough. The visuals of the Vipers destroying the Res. ship along with the musical score was effective. Loved that intercut with Lee and the battle in the background. Visually the battle was awesome yet it wasn't overkill and didn't take up more time in the ep than necessary to get across the action.

Who was going to off Cain came as no surprise to me since stupid Skiffy runs promos giving away that plot point. You’d have to be blind not to be able to tell who was holding the sidearm in the commercials. :rolleyes: But what was a nice little surprise was the backing down by both sides. I probably should have guessed that was a possibility, but last week’s ending was so intense, it seemed like neither would ever consider backing down.


I thought Lee wanted to die because he lost faith in his father and Roslin when they conspired to murder Cain. I think he felt that they betrayed the trust placed him. Of course I could be way off.That’s kind of my feeling, too. He’s such a principled character that this action that he was being asked to take part in was over the line. I guess he felt that if things had gotten so bad that those that he trusted were resorting to this, why continue on in this madness. It might just be easier and less painful to end it all. Not to mention all the **** he’d been subjected too. Getting a demotion to LT, having Kara outdo him yet once again and get the acclamations, etc. etc. compiled on the stuff he's had to endure since the beginning of the series. (Nicely played there by the writers by having it be revealed that he had been demoted through a conversation with his father rather than inserting some minor scene with dialogue specifically devoted to that development.)

Admiral Adama is nice but it just doesn’t have the same ring for me as Commander Adama. Yeah, I’m set in my ways. :D Some episode down the line Same goes for when I read that Apollo would be getting promoted to Major. Captain Apollo has a nice ring to it as Roslin would say.



Did Jester or Stinger, pilots on the Pegasus, die?no clue.. I hope they did...they did deserve to dieThat’s a little harsh. :P I thought they were okay guys, imho. I’m not ready to write off the entire crew of the Pegasus for the actions of a few. I hope Whiplash (Sebastian Spence) survived because I’d like to see more of him. I did see in another thread here that someone mentioned that the guy that played the CAG (Stinger) was no longer available to play the part so he may be a write off in the battle. Pity. I thought he was interesting as well. I even had to snicker when he put Lee in his place and called him a daddy’s boy. (And I like Lee....) He provided some nice conflict.

I'm gonna kind of miss Cain now. :( MF did a great job portraying that character. I mean I hated her guts as soon as she practically goose-stepped off the Raptor and onto the Galactica, but damn she was an interesting and complex character. And she was only in 3 episodes! RDM really knows how to develop a character and push all the right buttons.


Just to clarify, we ARE allowed to post spoilers here in the episode commentary in plain text without all the rigamarole, warnings and white-outs, right? Just no where else?Correct. You just have to put anything that is spoilers for future episodes in spoiler tags in this thread. Discussion of the episode in the episode thread needs no tags because well it’s the episode thread....:D

cyke
January 13th, 2006, 10:59 PM
Having some time pass, I did felt like Lee's story was a little bit out of place. For starters, the episode started with him but it he was just one of many storylines going on at the same time. And I agree that it did kind of feel out place.

Yet, i understand his inner turmoil. in the first season "Bastille Day" the first episode with Richard Hatch, we see that Lee has a different way of thinking and his own ideas of right or wrong, just like when he pulled the gun out at Tigh at the end of season 1 and his break out from the brigg and joining the PResident in exile. He lost faith in his father and the president, which is understandable. And given everything everyone's been going through, death would seem so much easier. I didn't really catch it at first, that Lee was intentionally not answering Dee's hails. But now it makes more sense.

But at the same time, he has to "lighten" up. Sure, Adama and Roslin were wrong to assasinate Cain but at the same time, Adama realized his mistake and stopped it. And the President is practically at her death bed at this point and given Cain's history with civilian ships, elimination was the quickest and fastest way to ensure stability in the fleet. If she dies, the goverment would be plunged into turmoil. Being Sec. of Education, she is the only one with legitimate powers. Even though Baltar is VP, he's too weak to do anything. And with Cain in charge of the military, who knows what might happen. At least if she dies, she can depend on Adama to do the right thing... So for now, I'm saying that Lee has hit a low point and he should try to think a lil bit out of the box and try to realize that things are bad.. but not as bad as they could be.

CKO
January 13th, 2006, 11:09 PM
Lee bein' called Lt. really confused me a lot.. yet he's called cpt. up through pegasus...

certainly looks like Dee was showin' more concern for Lee then she's supposed to...

LoneStar1836
January 13th, 2006, 11:16 PM
Having some time pass, I did felt like Lee's story was a little bit out of place. For starters, the episode started with him but it he was just one of many storylines going on at the same time. And I agree that it did kind of feel out place. I thought that was an interesting start to the episode. :) I love it when writers employ that writing technique effectively and toss you into the middle of the action, rather than start from the beginning and progress forward in a linear fashion.

Lady Snow
January 13th, 2006, 11:27 PM
I really need to remember not to have throwable objects by me when I watch this show. Damage occurs to them, and that's not a good thing! I mean, I started freaking out right off the bat! I also thought a(nother) prison rape scene was in store all through the credits and first commercials - but was somewhat relieved to see it was (only) a beat-down scene. Then I began to really admire Jack.

I was supremely glad it was Baltar who suggested justice. That somehow made it much more poetic and meaningful, mostly because it wasn't some half-cocked Cylon vengeance plot. And I want to know where she is. And where Six went. And if Six is gone and what she thinks about Baltar's use of her "sports" spiel. And if she really is somehow a function of his subconscience.

Poor Lee. First he gets nailed twice for following his instincts (Bastille Day - losing face with Dad - and KLG, II - oh the mutiny), then he gets transferred and demoted for something that wasn't his fault, then he gets dragged into some crazy plot that goes against what he considers a basic human moral code... no wonder he wants to die. And if he keeps doing this suicide run shirtless, I may have to keep rooting for it. :) I also think, in some rather large part of his heart, he's living to help Kara, and when he can't do so - or when he fails in doing so - it's one of the final blows that completely shakes his desire to live. If he doesn't have her back - if he can't even keep her trust in him - what makes him so different from a Cylon? (Then again, maybe he is no different from a Cylon... bwahaha)

Dee. Blegh. Though I was happy to see Billy for all of 2.8 seconds.

Yeah, I'm going to watch the rerun in an hour and a half and get back with more then.

Oh, yeah. I need to reiterate this: I love this show.

NotAscended
January 13th, 2006, 11:55 PM
Wow. And more wow. Very intense episode.

The long distance shots of the space battle were some of the most beautiful in the series.

Gina and Baltar. Such emotion from both actors. I think those scenes also cement Baltar going completely over to the Cylon side. It looks like he has asked himself the question "do humans deserve to live", looked at what humanity has done to the woman/cylon he loves, and emphatically said "no."

apollo123
January 14th, 2006, 12:25 AM
WOW, I'm still reeling after watching this episode. Just some random thoughts:

- I really liked that both commanders couldn't go through with the assassinations. Although it was overly neat, it made a lot of sense. And I was surprised that I was surprised that it happened. I really thought at least one of them would go through with it (at least give the order).

- I'm sad to see Cain go. Michelle Forbes did an amazing job portraying the character and just when Cain surprises us and we actually start to grow a little bit of sympathy for her, she has to die.

- The final scene between Adama and Rosyln - perfect, absolutely amazing acting job by both. And that kiss - WOW. That moment spoke so many volumes. It showed their friendship and their love for each other - not necessarily in a sexual way (although possibly) - but a genuine respect and affection.

The whole episode was just excellent. This show continues to amaze and surprise me. Just when I thought it couldn't get any better, they blindside me again!

Mr. Seven
January 14th, 2006, 01:42 AM
Kind of stinks that they got rid of the Blackbird so soon. I really liked that ship. I guess it was too useful for the colonials to have, so they had to get rid of it.

Franklyn Blaze
January 14th, 2006, 01:56 AM
Kind of stinks that they got rid of the Blackbird so soon. I really liked that ship. I guess it was too useful for the colonials to have, so they had to get rid of it.

Well you never know they could easily construct a new one. I'm suprised they never had anything stealthy that prior to these last few eps.

Oh I was thinking about this during the ep:

Ding dong! the witch is dead. which old witch? the wicked witch!
Ding dong! the wicked witch is dead.
Wake up - sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed.
Wake up, the wicked witch is dead. she's gone where the goblins go,
Below - below - below. yo-ho, let's open up and sing and ring the bells out.
Ding dong' the merry-oh, sing it high, sing it low.
Let them know
The wicked witch is dead!
ahh I feel much better now.

Lady Snow
January 14th, 2006, 02:11 AM
- I really liked that both commanders couldn't go through with the assassinations. Although it was overly neat, it made a lot of sense. And I was surprised that I was surprised that it happened. I really thought at least one of them would go through with it (at least give the order).


After Adama didn't give the order, I knew that Cain wouldn't. To Cain, Starbuck is an open book. I think Cain quickly identified the fact that Starbuck would respond well to a military woman in command - how, I'm not sure, but she jumped on that. Just the language Cain used when talking to Kara was tweaked for her audience. "[The people on Caprica] deserve to be rescued"? "I"m so proud of you"? "I want you to promise me"? To me, these don't seem like phrases used from the hard-ass admiral to the upstart CAG-with-guts. It smacks of manipulation. As soon as Cain saw Kara's sweaty face and free weapon, what else was she to think? Cain had also just given the same order; she had to have expected it. And when Starbuck's that much of an open book, well, easy call. I think it could also secondarily be a product of need recognition, but I personally don't think that was the initial cause of the non-order from Cain.

Orion's Star
January 14th, 2006, 02:12 AM
Cain IMHO is a very tragic figure. Once she had been an outstanding officer and most likely, a decent human being, but I suspect her vision was always a bit skewed, in the sense that her focus was on whom to fight against but not whom to fight for. I think that was at the root of her unraveling. Although in no way am I condoning her wrongdoings (which were numerous), chalking it all to her being "crazy" is perhaps a bit too simplistic. So, in some ways, I can relate to Kara's responding to Cain.
Well, Kara's unfortunate eulogy to Cain notwithstanding, I can understand her relating to Cain as well. She was the mother figure that Kara has always wanted. The mother who could do everything the boys could but still be...well, the mom she's always wanted. I think Kara has always searched for that kind of approval. It's a flaw of hers. When Cain showed that she could get things done and get them done with the necessity of no muss, no fuss, that appealed to Kara's get it done and get it done now philosophy. I would have liked for Kara not to have so blatantly criticized Dad though in such a public way, especially in light of what he had asked her to do and what they were talking about. Praising Cain for doing what was necessary and etc... was just not cool. I'm not sure I like what direction this episode has pointed to for Kara.


And Lee ... what can I say? I like this character more and more. Tonight it looked like all that repressed emotions finally came to a head, but what struck me most was his sense of loyalty. No knocks to Helo -- whose loyalty to Sharon was extremely moving and endearing -- I think Lee's brand is even more precious. What Kara asked him to do was against everything he believed in; from his latent suicidal urge, one could even say it was against what had sustained him thus far. Yet he still resolved to go through with it, because she was his friend and she needed him. And his last thought -- as far as he knew -- was of her, of how he failed her.
Blah blah blah Lee blah blah blah that. Who cares about Lee?




Except for Dee, of course. ;)

Speakfire
January 14th, 2006, 03:42 AM
Maybe Lee is having late stage Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I mean everyone on the shw has lost family, and on top of that, being saddled with the responsibility of being the CAG and having so many pilots loose their lives under him, Lee's had to shoot down a civilian ship that may have possibly been filled with 1300 people, done mutinous acts that directly oppose his only living relative, failed his best friend by not being there for her in an assassination he wholly opposes, and had one of the people he respects the most in life (Roslin) suddenly get bloodthirsty enough to go against every moral he believes in by ordering the assassination in the first place.

I'm not exactly sure what I'd be thinking while floating in the bowels of space after going through all of that, watching ships explode around me and with a leak in my suit but I can say I'd probably be pretty darned depressed, and it might take a while to shake off that depression.

He needs counselling :P Or something to believe in and something to live for.

Regarding Dee... Well she's been looking at him *that way* since Resistance. I think she looks up to him and it really shook her (as much as it did Kara) I suspect to hear him admit he doesn't want to live because hes always been such a moral guy.

Agent_Dark
January 14th, 2006, 05:56 AM
Did anyone catch the little thing with Billy at the end. He was sitting in the Presidents chair. I thought that was a nice little bit to go along with what Adama said in Home ;)

Oka
January 14th, 2006, 06:15 AM
AMAZING episode.

I just loved the scene where the Pegasus XO realized that he wouldn't have to go through with Cain's plan. His reaction was so wonderful. Brought a smile to my face. And the closing scene, so emotional.

The entire ep was close to perfection. Seriously I don't know how they're gonna top this but they always seem to manage somehow.

Wasn't that some of the best SFX you have seen in a tv-show, ever? Amazing.

somedude
January 14th, 2006, 07:39 AM
Did the Raider run into Lee's Blackbird on purpose, or because it couldn't see the ship cuz it was stealthy?

HirogenGater
January 14th, 2006, 07:46 AM
AMAZING episode.

I just loved the scene where the Pegasus XO realized that he wouldn't have to go through with Cain's plan. His reaction was so wonderful. Brought a smile to my face. And the closing scene, so emotional.

The entire ep was close to perfection. Seriously I don't know how they're gonna top this but they always seem to manage somehow.

Wasn't that some of the best SFX you have seen in a tv-show, ever? Amazing.

Yeah the episode really ranks up there. What happened to Cain really surprised me.

Quinn Mallory
January 14th, 2006, 07:52 AM
Did the Raider run into Lee's Blackbird on purpose, or because it couldn't see the ship cuz it was stealthy?

I'm pretty sure it was because it couldn't see the Blackbird. I'm disappointed to see the Blackbid go. I guess Chief Tyrel does have some free time in his hand to possibly build another one.

Speakfire
January 14th, 2006, 08:04 AM
The podcast by Ron Moore is up on scifi.com and in it, he says in escaping, Lee actually is hit by exploding debris from a damaged Raptor, not by a raider. He says you can see it if you watch the scene in slo-mo, I tried it on my computer and you can see that he is hit by a piece of debris when he is looking back over his shoulder at the resurrection ship blowing up behind him, though its hard to see what exactly it is, it defniitely doesn't look cylon. Too blocky and not enough blood. In fact at one time they were going to film it where Lee would be floating among the dead crew of the Raptor but it ended up being too hard to film.

Quinn Mallory
January 14th, 2006, 08:05 AM
Wow, that was another powerful episode. I'm glad to see the more moral side of Cain although you just know that the other version of #6 will kill her once the assainations were called off.

I agree that Starbuck's euology was a bit controversial but it does definitely add a lot of more depth to the character. Kara also never heard about Cain's decision to strip the original civilian fleet of the Pegasus (since this was the piece of info that convinced Adama to take out Cain).

I'm interested in seeing how the storyline with Lee will play out. I'm glad to see that potential love triangle between Lee, Kara, and Dee is still in place.

Now here is a rationalization that I had to make while watching this episode. The lack of happiness on Starbuck's face after the successful mission was a dead giveaway that something was up (I was surprised that one guy that she passed in the hallway didn't congratulate her)...you would think that Cain would notice that (unless she is too occupied with her own decision to whether take out Adama or not). Is it possible that Cain only decided to not kill Adama after seeing that Starbuck wasn't going to kill her? One may argue that had Cain suspected Starbuck's action, she wouldn't have even allowed Kara to talk to Adama before she talked to her XO; however, Cain may have somewhat of a deathwish as well (and knowing that the fleet would be in decent hand with Adama, she may be more willing to let Adama's assainsanation plan to work).

Quinn Mallory
January 14th, 2006, 08:07 AM
The podcast by Ron Moore is up on scifi.com and in it, he says in escaping, Lee actually is hit by exploding debris from a damaged Raptor, not by a raider. He says you can see it if you watch the scene in slo-mo, I tried it on my computer and you can see that he is hit by a piece of debris when he is looking back over his shoulder at the resurrection ship blowing up behind him, though its hard to see what exactly it is, it defniitely doesn't look cylon. Too blocky and not enough blood. In fact at one time they were going to film it where Lee would be floating among the dead crew of the Raptor but it ended up being too hard to film.

Ok, I stand corrected. There was a shot of a cylon raider flying over Lee right after he had ejected that made me think he ran into a raider.

Speakfire
January 14th, 2006, 08:13 AM
Yep actually you see at least 2 cylon ships fly past on the slow playback. I would guess they're what destroyed the raptor. I thought the Blackbird was destroyed by a raider too, until I heard the podcast :)

Liebestraume
January 14th, 2006, 09:07 AM
Well, Kara's unfortunate eulogy to Cain notwithstanding, I can understand her relating to Cain as well. She was the mother figure that Kara has always wanted. The mother who could do everything the boys could but still be...well, the mom she's always wanted. I think Kara has always searched for that kind of approval. It's a flaw of hers. When Cain showed that she could get things done and get them done with the necessity of no muss, no fuss, that appealed to Kara's get it done and get it done now philosophy. I would have liked for Kara not to have so blatantly criticized Dad though in such a public way, especially in light of what he had asked her to do and what they were talking about. Praising Cain for doing what was necessary and etc... was just not cool. I'm not sure I like what direction this episode has pointed to for Kara.You raise an interesting point.

I agree with your astute observation regarding Cain's appeal to Kara. Though Cain could not possibly be considered a proper role model, for the first time Kara looked up to someone other than Bill Adama and, as a result, came to some conclusions of her own. Ever since Hand of God, we've known Kara's being groomed for a command position. So the very fact that she is now doing independent thinking is positive in my book.

I also agree with you on the "public way" part, but Kara is Kara. The way she aired her grievances, albeit inappropriate and less than tactful, seemed fairly in-character to me. She is not the type who would go to Dad for an heart-to-heart (but who is?) -- and one hopes one day she will mature enough to do that -- for now, she feels strongly about something and she is going to voice it.

As for the eulogy itself, I'm just glad someone remembered the positive attributes of Cain. Was she a good leader at times such as this? Absolutely not. But, at the end, she did embrace her humanity. She "looked death in the eye, did not flinch, ... did not give up" -- that much was still true. Unfortunately, that didn't even occur to me till Kara brought it up. I think too often we judge people by "what have you done for me lately." And by distancing ourselves from the "crazies" we feel somehow immune to their particular brand of human frailty.


Blah blah blah Lee blah blah blah that. Who cares about Lee? ...And one wonders why the poor guy comteplates suicide? :rolleyes: :p

But Speakfire had a most excellent summary of Lee's issues.

Maybe Lee is having late stage Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I mean everyone on the shw has lost family, and on top of that, being saddled with the responsibility of being the CAG and having so many pilots loose their lives under him, Lee's had to shoot down a civilian ship that may have possibly been filled with 1300 people, done mutinous acts that directly oppose his only living relative, failed his best friend by not being there for her in an assassination he wholly opposes, and had one of the people he respects the most in life (Roslin) suddenly get bloodthirsty enough to go against every moral he believes in by ordering the assassination in the first place.

captainpash
January 14th, 2006, 09:13 AM
This was a good ep.

grover
January 14th, 2006, 09:54 AM
Kara didn't have all the info when she said those words at Cain's funeral.

1) Cain did flinch when she didn't order her XO to take out Adama.

2) Kara didn't know about the Civilian fleet Cain abandoned. Kara's big time on going back to rescue the survivors on Caprica, it wouldn't have sat well with her that Cain strnded several hundred people.

Liebestraume
January 14th, 2006, 10:04 AM
1) Cain did flinch when she didn't order her XO to take out Adama.Perhaps we have different interpretation of "flinch" -- to me it means the inability to go through something even while fully knowing it must be done and having the intention of going through with it. Looks like Cain just changed her mind, for reasons we can only guess at.


2) Kara didn't know about the Civilian fleet Cain abandoned. Kara's big time on going back to rescue the survivors on Caprica, it wouldn't have sat well with her that Cain strnded several hundred people.This could very well be true.

grover
January 14th, 2006, 10:17 AM
OK, how do you do the box quote stuff, I just tried it and got kicked off the site.

Methinks I did something wrong.

AutumnDream
January 14th, 2006, 10:34 AM
Omgomgomgomgomggomgomgogmogmogmg!

That's my reaction to the episode. I was all teary-eyed at the end. It's been a loooong time since a show did that to me!

BSG rawks. :D

Liebestraume
January 14th, 2006, 10:34 AM
OK, how do you do the box quote stuff, I just tried it and got kicked off the site.

Methinks I did something wrong.Just click the "QUOTE" button at the bottom (of the post that you wnat to quote) and then out comes test that reads like "[QUOTE =grover etc." Scroll to the end and start typing ...

You probably need to turn off your Popup Blocker, though.

Taonas
January 14th, 2006, 10:59 AM
Such damn good TV... So well done..... Need more Galactica!

I really have no damn clue how they are going to top these three episodes ("Pegasus", "Resurrection Ship 1 and 2").

I have no words to describe how good this episode was and how much I am now looking forward to the rest of this season.

creed462
January 14th, 2006, 11:20 AM
Good ep I am glad Adama backeddown thats not a good position to take.

Orion's Star
January 14th, 2006, 12:52 PM
Kara didn't have all the info when she said those words at Cain's funeral.

1) Cain did flinch when she didn't order her XO to take out Adama.
I don't think Cain did flinch because I don't think Cain ever really decided not to terminate Adama's command, as it was so delightfully put forth by her. I think it was good that it was shown her deciding to not go through with her decision at that moment, but I think in many ways that it was only a temporary decision on her part. I think she wanted to see how things would go with Adama first, now that she had first hand knowledge of how effective the two Battlestars are together, and then decide later on what to do with Adama. But I don't think she really flinched, or backpedalled in any way in making the decision to go through with it. She essentially made a non-decision.

Admiral Cain
January 14th, 2006, 12:53 PM
I don't understand why you all are happy that Admiral Cain died. I loved her Caracter, and during the talk with Starbuck, and when that moment came I was crying. The moment Gaina shot her it left a profond mark on me. And I thought about for a long time. It was very sad, and I was very very mad at that stupid cylon!

riffcold
January 14th, 2006, 01:06 PM
I, too, was sorry to see the Blackbird go.

However, I think there is a reason why Laird, the Pegasus' civilian deck chief, was introduced in 2x10 as the engineer who designed the Blackbird's (albeit) old engines; methinks he will have a crucial role in the construction of Blackbird 2.0.

keshou
January 14th, 2006, 02:10 PM
As usual BSG ups the ante on Friday nights in terms of the drama they put on screen. I LOVED 90% of this episode although a few scenes left me a little :(

*The actual battle itself was spectacular, although I was a little surpised everything went so well for the colonials. Other than the Blackbird it all went according to plan. The Cylons seemed less than invincible in this outing. The destruction of the Resurrection ship was expected but very eerie. Sorry to lose the Blackbird - I liked that little ship. :(

*As good as the battle was in space I was more interested in the battle of wills between Adama and Cain. I was on pins and needles waiting for the respective "assasination" plots to unfold. I was pretty sure Adama wouldn't go thru with it - especially after the memorable talk with Sharon - but Cain surprised me in this episode. I really thought her XO would be the one to call off the "hit", not her. But in the end I was happy to see her have a change of heart. Was it temporary? Probably. But it helped to temper Cain's darkside and made her seem much more real in the end. I'm sorry that character bit the dust as I would have liked to see her and Adama butt heads for a few more episodes.

*Kara was a bundle of nerves as she went to see Cain and I'm not really sure if she would have pulled the trigger or not. Her eulogy regarding Cain was interesting - she clearly came to admire her to a certain degree. Will this have a lasting impact on Kara? I think it may.

*Lee. Well, this was probably the most disappointing part of the episode. I'm not surprised he clashed with his father over the plan to eliminate Cain. I'm sure Roslin's stance also disappointed him. What was surprising was his "I'm ready to die" attitude in space. I'd seen the spoiler about Lee becoming suicidal but I found this setup to be contrived and unconvincing. Not to mention a little wussy as he didn't even want to fight to return to Pegasus to support Kara. :S

*Baltar/Gina. I wasn't shocked that Gina was the one to kill Cain. I figured that was going to be the case when they showed the scene of Cain kicking and spitting on Gina in the "previously on" intro. Poor "Six". She's being replaced by the real thing, it seems. Wonder where Baltar has stashed Gina?

*And what's up with Dee sneaking around and listening to Lee and Kara's conversation? Hated that.

*Roslin/Adama. MM and EJO were wonderful in that final scene. Adama's an Admiral now. I got all teary over that one and well as the kiss. Poor Roslin seems to be at death's door. :(

I adore this show - the story arc is compelling, the characters are complex and it always manages to pull me in emotionally.

NotAscended
January 14th, 2006, 02:41 PM
*Roslin/Adama. MM and EJO were wonderful in that final scene. Adama's an Admiral now. I got all teary over that one and well as the kiss. Poor Roslin seems to be at death's door. :(



Agree. And I've got to wonder how much of Adama's behavior is because he sees how close to death she is. Both in this episode and Resurrection Ship Pt1, he seems to be reaching out to her both because of the respect and admiration he feels for her and to offer her some comfort in her last days. Will be interesting to see how his behavior might change, if Roslin doesn't die soon.

anotherquestion
January 14th, 2006, 03:33 PM
Some series start out really strong--the writers unleash new, fresh, complex, compelling characters caught up in unusual circumstances and garnering all sorts of interest and empathy by their wit, their bravery, or even their weaknesses and vulnerabilities. Then the writers appear to lose steam along the way and tinker with the internal motivations so those things or persons that the character most desires becomes tainted or meaningless. Emotions and attitudes shift in inconsistent and unconvincing ways. Characters that had been full of passionate intensity cool to indifference and contempt. See, for example, any David Kelly series or "Moonlighting" as prime examples. The creative forces at work seem to lack a loyalty or interest in their own creations, and smack them around a bit simply because they can.

This kind of manipulation of the major characters hints at desparation, at least to me, on the writers part. Once a characters major arc of interest reaches a climax, the motivations that were driving him/her suddenly shift or are banked down. I think that this is a way writers try to avoid "jumping the shark", by always keeping the viewers off balance by denying stability to their main characters. I think I see a little bit of this tendency in the latest episodes.

I can understand Kara's mixed reaction to Cain. She stood ready, if not willing, to take her out on Adama's command, but had more than a few reasons herself for forming new loyalties to Cain. Cain had promoted her, saw her leadership potential as being undimished by her brashness and lack of military decorum (quite unlike Tigh, as a perfect counter-example, who demanded "by the book" behavior from his subourdinates without ever being able to exhibit such behavior himself). Cain was a mitigated horror, she keep up the good fight without upholding the values worth fighting for. Unflinching is the right word for her moral self-certitude. Cain's principal sin was her rigor which evolved into fanaticism, which seems to be the only unforgiveable sin for the series as a whole. We admire and respect Adama more because he does change his mind so many times. He actively seeks out the opinions of others. Despite initial resistance, he has found himself persuaded to change the course of his actions and his attitudes, even when listening to those he does not entirely trust (like Roslyn (initially), Duella, and Sharon. Strange and interesting that most of his reversals of opinion have come from the persuasions of women of his acquaintance).

Understandable, too, is Lee's reaction. He, too, overcame initial misunderstandings and emotional seperation from his father and had a profound reversal of affection only to find himself unable to support a decision by his father to conspire to assassinate a superior officer. The fact that Roslyn colluded in this scheme seemed to knock one of the last props from Lee's value-framework. The last bond was his personal affection for Starbuck, and that was tainted too by her role in the plot. It failed to sustain his will to go on.

The motivation, to me at least, that is the most puzzling is Baltar. In repeating the "You know what I miss most" conversation to Gina, Baltar has proven himself to be the consummate Betrayer. He has, by now, almost run out of individuals and entities left to betray (the colonies, the fleet, the command structure, Sharon, the President, and now, internal Six). Gina may be in a better place, physically, now that she's out of the Pegasus brig, but I cannot imagine a less reliable companion than Gaius Baltar. And all along the way he seemed vulnerable and "human" himself. Baltar's character, to me at least, is the most difficult to fathom. His behavior seems simply incomprehensible.

cyke
January 14th, 2006, 04:34 PM
Such damn good TV... So well done..... Need more Galactica!

I really have no damn clue how they are going to top these three episodes ("Pegasus", "Resurrection Ship 1 and 2").

I have no words to describe how good this episode was and how much I am now looking forward to the rest of this season.

When I watched the first two episodes of this season, Scattered and Valley of Darkness, I was blown away. I didn't think it could get any better and then they came out with Home Part 1 and 2, which was good but over all not as compelling as Scattered and Valley of Darkness.. but then they throw in Ressuerection ship.. wow amazing. I'm almost afraid of what's going to happen next !



Did anyone catch the little thing with Billy at the end. He was sitting in the Presidents chair. I thought that was a nice little bit to go along with what Adama said in Home ;)

Yes, i noticed that as well. At first, i was like.. did roslin die already and billy took over? what's great about BSG is that you like the secondary characters as much as the main ones. Billy, Dee, Gaeta.. all great secondary characters.. i wish we could see more of them, esp billy. But what happened with him and Dee. did i miss something? i thought things were all good between them 2

rarocks24
January 14th, 2006, 04:45 PM
Well you never know they could easily construct a new one. I'm suprised they never had anything stealthy that prior to these last few eps.

Oh I was thinking about this during the ep:

Ding dong! the witch is dead. which old witch? the wicked witch!
Ding dong! the wicked witch is dead.
Wake up - sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed.
Wake up, the wicked witch is dead. she's gone where the goblins go,
Below - below - below. yo-ho, let's open up and sing and ring the bells out.
Ding dong' the merry-oh, sing it high, sing it low.
Let them know
The wicked witch is dead!
ahh I feel much better now.
Here's what I think happened with the whole Cain thing.

1. Her family, friends, everyone she knows gets killed.
2. Commanding officer during a time of war with very little supplies and
personnel.
3. Massacre of 12 colonies at the hands of Cylons.
4. Massive shipboard casualties.
5. Perhaps she knew their were still humans living on the Colonies.
6. Die-hard patriotism.
7. Desperation

All Equal Hard-core b&*$(

I kind of was depressed that Cain died, cuz if it was true about her feelings towards going back to Kobol, I would have done the same. Those ships could be modified for war, guns, torpedo launchers, shields, etc. Also, while I can't condone what she did to Gina, it is partly understandable. Torture is the best means of extracting information (unless you use sodium pentathol, which may not work on her because of her anatomy, and the fact that she's a toaster). She needed information, so she had to get it. Desperate times, desperate measures.

Also, for the Cain backing down thing, perhaps she herself suspected that Adama was going to kill her and made her own plans. Adama backed down, and Cain backed down. End of story. While I'm not glad of what happened to Gina and to toaster-Sharon, especially the latter, and the information concerning Cain's actions towards the civilian group is not so great either, I saw her as someone who was so determined to fight back that she made mistakes (which we all do, imagine if you were in the same position as her, a heavily damaged battleship needing supplies to fight a war that would determine the course of the human race, with minimum crew (didn't something like 700 of her crew die?), minimum to zilch resources (her mistake in scuttling the ship for supplies was that she should have the spare parts used to build the parts needed for her ship instead of just taking them from the civ fleet, but time was perhaps a factor), fighting an enemy which just launched a massive genocide of the colonies. She didn't have the luxury of knowing other ships were out there, she didn't know what was going on.

As for manipulating Kara, I think it was more like she seeing a part of herself in her. Both were die-hard patriots, both wanted to kick the colonies the frak out of their homes, and both were willing to bend the rules to get what they wanted. Cain was fiercely dedicated to staying and fighting the Cylons, whereas Adama and Roslin were too busy making a run for a planet that may or may not have the technology to defend them when they arrive.

So yeah, Cain was a b*&^%, but she deserved every word at her funeral. She made mistakes, but so did a lot of people, not just her. She had the admiration of her crew (despite the fact that some were a**es.), and she helped lead a battle against the Cylons that bolstered both ships and the Colony fleet's morale.

People forget that sometimes desperate times call for desperate measures. Cain had to make the decisions which very well could have kept her crew alive (giving the Colonies a fighting chance). She had no other option. We knew very little about her, other than the fact that she thought Adama and Roslin were too mushy with each other and didn't give a damn about fighting the Cylons. As for the whole Tyrol/Helo thing, she wasn't there to know about anything going on. What would you do if your home got wiped out, your sons or daughters dead, and you found out one of your officers got killed for sexually harrassing an enemy agent that belonged to a race that committed genocide. No one points themselves in Cain's position, so everyone criticizes her.

HirogenGater
January 14th, 2006, 05:02 PM
I don't understand why you all are happy that Admiral Cain died. I loved her Caracter, and during the talk with Starbuck, and when that moment came I was crying. The moment Gaina shot her it left a profond mark on me. And I thought about for a long time. It was very sad, and I was very very mad at that stupid cylon!

I was also sorry to see her character get killed off.

Admiral Cain
January 14th, 2006, 05:18 PM
I am glad to see that there are still some people who are defending her. She was not a bad lady!

Mr. Seven
January 14th, 2006, 05:23 PM
She wasn't as bad as I thought she was, but she was still too hardcore. She was like what Jack Bauer would be if he commanded a Battlestar in this situation...although I don't think he would leave people behind like she did and strip their ships. Not to mention shooting people's family's.

Sure she wasn't evil, but she wasn't exactly the good guy we are used to on Galactica either. I started liking her at the end of the episode though, but then she got plugged.

Michelle Forbes did a great job. I hope this gets her even more work in the future. Last time I saw her she was on 24, and I think she did the pilot to Global Frequency, based on the Warren Ellis comic.

somedude
January 14th, 2006, 05:40 PM
Torture is the best means of extracting information (unless you use sodium pentathol, which may not work on her because of her anatomy, and the fact that she's a toaster). She needed information, so she had to get it. Desperate times, desperate measures.


Torture has never been the best means of extracting information- just ask the Israelis or Senator John McCain. The tortured will say anything to make the physical and mental pain stop.

Just because these are desperate times do not mean that one's ethics and morals have to be jettisoned. Otherwise, Cain isn't much better than the Cylons.

ToasterOnFire
January 14th, 2006, 07:05 PM
Gah, what a nailbiter! There was so much tension on the bridges after the battle that I actually felt it in my gut. What a great ending to the trilogy!

-Can someone explain the significance of the scene where Baltar told Six's story to Gina? I got the feeling that somehow he was consciously deciding to remove Six from his brain and replace her with Gina. Yes? No? Maybe?

-I didn't see the assassination twist at all! I thought Adama might back down, but I had no idea that Cain would as well. Made her death at the end even more poignant, and I admit I was a bit bummed to see her go. So nice to see "bad guys" that aren't completely evil.

-When I saw Helo and Tyrol getting stormed by the Pegasus guards, my first reaction was that they were going to be raped... :S

-I cannot glow enough about the space battle CGI, especially that one scene where Apollo floated and watched the fireworks. Lovely, lovely, lovely. And the scene where the cylon bodies floated out into space was an appropriately dark touch.

-Interesting that they showed Dee listening in while Kara and Lee talked. Are they setting up a triangle? Not so sure that I like that idea...

-And lastly, the ending scene between Roslin and Adama was the perfect one-two emotional sucker punch, from an obviously sick Roslin getting practically giddy over Adama's promotion to Adama's tearful grin and look of pain at the end. According to interviews, the kiss was unscripted and Olmos just decided to throw it in. RM gushed over that scene, and rightfully so. It wasn't a sexual kiss, but it had an amazing amount of intimacy that didn't feel out of place. EJO and MM steal the show for me. I could watch those two even if they were sitting in a room reading the dictionary. :D


Incidentally, I've been looking forward to this show for the whole week, I couldn't wait to watch the rerun after seeing the first viewing, AND I can't wait until next week's episode. THAT is the sign of a great TV show. :D

cyke
January 14th, 2006, 07:10 PM
In Pegasus and Ressurection Ship part I, she was a character easy to hate. But Ressurection Ship Part II gave us a chance to warm up to her.. that is until they killed her !

I have the feeling that she knew that Starbuck or Lee (if he was there) would prolly try to kill her. And that maybe she really didn't intend on killing Adama after all? The beauty of it all, we will never know.

They could've gone cheap and did a soap opera kind of killing where she survived but is in a coma or something and at the season 3 finale bring her back to life .. but of course there was only one way it would end up for her. It's a shame, we won't get to see that actress return, unless she was a cylon, which i doubt she is.

if this was just the middle of season 2.. i dunt know if my nerves could handle the rest of the season haha. i never felt like this since i got into 24 and alias and did a marathon run with their dvd sets.

Blue Banrigh
January 14th, 2006, 07:51 PM
-Can someone explain the significance of the scene where Baltar told Six's story to Gina? I got the feeling that somehow he was consciously deciding to remove Six from his brain and replace her with Gina. Yes? No? Maybe?
I got the idea that he was trying to reach out to Gina, using the information to form a connection with her. I'm unsure if his intentions were benelvolent though.

That was a great episode, I've seen it about three times now and am still blown away.

Space battles, gorgeous, I love how the vipers destroyed the resurrection ship. And the music for when Gina escapes the cell and the final scene for Adama and Roslin was great.

I'm sad to see Cain gone. She would have been interesting to watch for a few more eps.

somedude
January 14th, 2006, 08:01 PM
I got the idea that he was trying to reach out to Gina, using the information to form a connection with her. I'm unsure if his intentions were benelvolent though.



They mentioned in the podcast that this was something that Six used to like to do, to feel the excitement of the crowd. She would invite Baltar to join her. And now, Baltar is using that same story on Gina, in effect erasing Six from his current mind.

Blue Banrigh
January 14th, 2006, 08:10 PM
They mentioned in the podcast that this was something that Six used to like to do, to feel the excitement of the crowd. She would invite Baltar to join her. And now, Baltar is using that same story on Gina, in effect erasing Six from his current mind.
I think she'll still hang around and annoy him, but she'll probably disappear when he's around Gina.

Skydiver
January 14th, 2006, 08:23 PM
i attribute starbuck's words to a little bit of empathy with cain

think of it...starbuck has always been bucking heads with folks. adama does have a soft spot for her, but she's always the maverick. always the outsider, always welcome only because she makes herself welcome

with cain she didn't have that. she didn't have someone giving her grief for being non-reg, she had someone acknowledge her and give her responsibilities. and she had someone empathize with her in rescuing the capricans (although the blush would come off that rose as soon as cain said no. the only reason cain said yes was to play her...and kara woulda found that out eventually)

cain played her and itll be interesing if kara ever realizes it

dec55
January 14th, 2006, 10:28 PM
Loved Boomer in this eppy.....gorgeous...:)

Blue Banrigh
January 14th, 2006, 11:55 PM
Was it ever made clear in these eps if the Cylons aboard the Resurrection ship were conscious? Or if they were empty bodies waiting for a mind to download?

Aussie_86
January 15th, 2006, 12:53 AM
I actually agree with Kara's little speech about Cain at the end.

Cain did what needed to be done, and she got it done, without flinching.

Ya know how much balls it takes to do that? Although some of her methods (stripping civillian ships) were a bit wrong, think about it this way...


Your whole race has been destroyed... you're one ship... one crew, in the middle of no where with an enemy all around you. No one to keep you in check. All you would be doing from day to day is surviving, and that's it. Eventually, your mind would just get this 'survival' attitude - do whatever is necessary to survive, at all costs, as long as they're not to me.

That's what i think anyway.


IF Cain and Adama had been at equal roles (ie, Admiral.. or, Cain got demoted to Commander and Adama remained at Commander), she would have been a very good asset to the fleet - people could keep her in line, and she would have the balls to do what needed to be done! Although Roslin does have a **** load of balls, as well as Adama, Cain's got more, and Starbuck sees this.

About the assassanation - if Cain did know that Kara had been sent to kill her, i believe that Cain knew that Kara wasn't likely to follow through with it... however, if word came in over the wireless that Adama's Command had been taken out, there would be a bullet through Cain's head immediately. (if Cain knew about her assassanation attempt) - that would lead Cain to call off her assassanation of Adama's Command.



Anyway... great great episode... am hoping that when they release the DVD's they'll have more shots of the space battle as that rocked!

Aussie_86
January 15th, 2006, 01:07 AM
-Can someone explain the significance of the scene where Baltar told Six's story to Gina? I got the feeling that somehow he was consciously deciding to remove Six from his brain and replace her with Gina. Yes? No? Maybe?




From what i gathered, it showed that deep down, all cylon number 6 models are the same... ie, Six in baltar's head liked to go to the stadium and the rest of the stuff that happens in the story... Baltar is making the assumption that the abused woman in front of him, would like to go to a stadium and feel the crowd, with someone special like baltar!

This may be why Cylons want to reproduce with humans - create emotional diversity within the population (and therefore love which they all seem to be wanting)

scifi maniac
January 15th, 2006, 06:09 AM
Storywise I loved Cain. She brought a lot of interesting things to the series and loved the interaction she had with Adama and Starbuck.

Characterwise I hated Cain. She was a psycho b!tch who ran her ship on fear.

She stripped the civilian fleat of everything! even their FTL drives. She left them there to die and not to forget she put two families up against the wall and executed them. She would have put them all against the wall if the people they could use didn't agree to go to the Pegasus. She let the crew gangrape a prisoner. One could argue that they needed information. Agreed. But there is a difference in using violence to extract information (which they didn't get from Gina anyway so it didn't help) and repeatedly abusing, torturing and gangraping a prissoner for the sheer fun of it/ of having an out led. Because that is what she did, not just because of the info.

Besides if you let your crew gangrape a cylon under the motto she's just a machine, go ahead, what stops other crewmembers of accusing each other when one rejects the other/ or p!sses the other one off? That (now dead)guy looked like a sexual frustrated man and I wouldn't put it past any of them to accuse innocents just to have your way with them. Cain was a soldier. She's supposed to think about more than just her crew. It's her duty to protect the civilians. Oh and what about her XO? She shot him point blank in the head when he refused to give the suicide order. She could have put him in jail.

Cain was the worst thing for the fleet and I thought Starbucks little story about Cain was totally inapropriate. I'm glad she's dead.

Ding dong! the witch is dead. which old witch? the wicked witch!
Ding dong! the wicked witch is dead.
Wake up - sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed.
Wake up, the wicked witch is dead. she's gone where the goblins go,
Below - below - below. yo-ho, let's open up and sing and ring the bells out.
Ding dong' the merry-oh, sing it high, sing it low.
Let them know
The wicked witch is dead!

scifi maniac
January 15th, 2006, 06:12 AM
I actually agree with Kara's little speech about Cain at the end.

Cain did what needed to be done, and she got it done, without flinching.

Ya know how much balls it takes to do that? Although some of her methods (stripping civillian ships) were a bit wrong, think about it this way...


Your whole race has been destroyed... you're one ship... one crew, in the middle of no where with an enemy all around you. No one to keep you in check. All you would be doing from day to day is surviving, and that's it. Eventually, your mind would just get this 'survival' attitude - do whatever is necessary to survive, at all costs, as long as they're not to me.

That's what i think anyway.

Yes you're right, she was only one ship because Cain destroyed the other dozen of civi ships that were with her.

keshou
January 15th, 2006, 07:02 AM
i attribute starbuck's words to a little bit of empathy with cain

think of it...starbuck has always been bucking heads with folks. adama does have a soft spot for her, but she's always the maverick. always the outsider, always welcome only because she makes herself welcome

with cain she didn't have that. she didn't have someone giving her grief for being non-reg, she had someone acknowledge her and give her responsibilities. and she had someone empathize with her in rescuing the capricans (although the blush would come off that rose as soon as cain said no. the only reason cain said yes was to play her...and kara woulda found that out eventually)

cain played her and itll be interesing if kara ever realizes it
I think you're on target. Cain gave her a fresh start and major responsibility without all the baggage she has on Galactica, without Tigh in her face. In fact Cain even sympathized about having to work for Tigh - something Adama would never do. Cain even - as you say - played on her desire to go back to Caprica and rescue the survivors. Kara's tough but she's also pretty needy in some ways and Cain seemed to know how to push her buttons. Of course I think Cain was somewhat genuine in respecting and liking Kara. Perhaps she was even similar to Kara in her younger years.

I'm just wondering what, if anything, Kara will take away from this experience. Wonder if she'll retain her new postion under Admiral Adama?

Liebestraume
January 15th, 2006, 07:25 AM
Was it ever made clear in these eps if the Cylons aboard the Resurrection ship were conscious? Or if they were empty bodies waiting for a mind to download?I think all Baltar related to Cain was that "we are too far way from the Cylon home world for the normal downloading process to work" and that the ship "... contains the entire apparatus necessary for Cylon resurrection." We were left to assume that the bodies awaiting download were empty. But, you are right, the issue of pre-existing consciousness was never explicitly addressed.


i attribute starbuck's words to a little bit of empathy with cain.
...
cain played her and itll be interesing if kara ever realizes itI think Kara will realize she was manipulated as soon as she learns Cain's ruthlessness where civilians were concerned.

That being said, the empathy may not completely go away. Cain was very single-minded in fighting the Cylons. Her crew had had some success in space battles before meeting us with Galactica, and she accomplished what she set out to do, which was to take out the Resurrection Ship. I think Cain made going back to Caprica believable to Kara because she genuinely meant it -- just not for the reason that Kara thought.

And there is the "do not flinch" pep-talk. In essense, that was Cain's rationalization of all the questionable acts under her command. The ethics thereof notwithstanding, what we learned there was that those were painful decisions for her as well. I think Kara empathizes with Cain because she caught a glimpse of the woman that other people were not privy to.

entil2001
January 15th, 2006, 11:03 AM
I’m often asked: what kind of episode would be able to achieve a rating of 10/10? So many strong episodes top out at 8 or 9, and yes, that’s intentional. It leaves the very top rating for the episodes that transcend what most productions manage. Not through perfection, necessarily, but through the power of the story and its telling, through taking chances or raising the bar. Episodes like “Severed Dreams” for “Babylon 5” or “Once More, With Feeling” for “Buffy”,

This episode now joins the elite.

Nearly every scene brings with it an emotional resonance that is lacking from most televised storytelling. From the poetic decision by Apollo to let the black overtake him, to Starbuck’s anguish at having to eliminate a flawed but dedicated leader, to Baltar’s latest step towards apparent betrayal, to Adama’s realization of what he must do in the name of humanity…it all strikes a chord. And more importantly, it brought several plot threads to fruition while sparking off several others.

Ron Moore made a point in his podcast to remind the audience that the series tries not to give easy answers to the questions posed by the story. Flawed humans are allowed to remain flawed and take a long journey towards some new way of thinking, which may in fact be equally flawed. Yet if there is a theme or a message, it’s what Adama says after his pivotal discussion with Sharon, harkening back to the mini-series: it’s not enough just to survive. Humanity must demonstrate why it is worthy of survival.

This was the fundamental difference between Adama and Cain. Adama has been focused, from the very beginning, on keeping humanity safe but doing so while preserving some sense of human morality and decency. It was about preservation of humanity on philosophical terms, and it took him some time to understand that Roslin was equally committed to the same goal, simply on a more spiritual level. It’s not great for military discipline, but in a very real sense, the familiar structures of command and government are already little more than an artifice.

Cain, on the other hand, had allowed her hatred of the Cylons to overcome some aspects of her humanity, leading to a brand of survival that dismissed the finer aspects of human morality. It was survival of humanity in literal terms. Yet that focus and drive was something vital, especially now that Roslin is dying and Adama has broader responsibilities. Never mind that there’s an entire crew on “Pegasus” with Cain’s harsher philosophy. Cain was coming around, after all, and she was not completely lost. Starbuck will likely remind Adama in future episodes how important that focus was.

Interestingly enough, Sharon’s conversation with Adama reveals why Baltar’s decision might be more in service of humanity than in betrayal of it. Baltar shows Gina that there is something within humanity that deserves to survive. Six may not be willing to see it that way, based on their strange relationship, but Baltar’s actions could be interpreted as mitigating the harsher human responses. I wouldn’t be shocked to discover that Baltar, however accidentally, turns out to be as instrumental in humanity’s survival as Adama or Roslin.

I connect Lee’s decision to die in space with the realization that Roslin was the one who suggested that Cain be assassinated. He could have believed that from his father, given Adama’s decision to jail the President, but he never would have expected that from Roslin. I think he chose death over survival out of despair for humanity itself. I may be wrong about the why, but Lee is going to take a long time to find something worth living for. Will Starbuck or Dee give him that something?

I believe that this episode had the most elaborate and extensive special effects sequences since the mini-series, and those scenes are simply stunning. What’s even better is the fact that those amazing effects and the battle itself are almost tangential to the meat of the story, but they represent a massive shift in the status quo for the fleet. The Cylons are now rocked back on their heels and the fleet has two Battlestars. I wouldn’t be shocked if the bulk of the season, at least until the season finale, took advantage of the lack of Cylon presence by returning focus on the issues within the fleet itself.

After all, this episode, likely in concert with the next episode, brings the “complication” phase of the season arc to an effective end. It’s all about setting up the resolution. After hitting such a high point, it’s going to take time to work through the consequences and set the stage for the next stunning achievement. Some might question whether the series can accomplish something like this again, but who saw this coming, even after the excellent “Pegasus”?

There’s one more thing that must be noted, beyond the tight and nuanced writing, the near-perfect performances, and the inspired direction. What takes all of that to the next level is the incredible score. The score for this episode was more powerful than I can express in this review. I can’t wait for the second season soundtrack, just for this episode’s score alone. I could rewatch this episode several times over and still find new things to discuss, and for that reason, this episode deserves the highest praise.

Skydiver
January 15th, 2006, 11:29 AM
you have a good point about baltar. the cylons have thier battle against the humans, likely based on attitudes like cain's. that machines are not human therefore not equal. something lesser. an IT.

but baltar is seeing the woman behind the machine with gina. adama is now seeing sharon as a woman and victim, not just a machine

a war is easier to fight when the enemy is clearly defined but harder when there are people that don't fit the defintion of 'enemy'

we now, apparantly, have two cylons in the fleet that are sympathetic to the humans. what's to say there's not more?

Frakster
January 15th, 2006, 12:13 PM
So is Six in Baltar's head gone for good?

Speakfire
January 15th, 2006, 12:38 PM
I think that Baltar is using what 6 told him to manipulate Gina for himself. Which is no surprise, when does Gaius do anything that doesn't benefit himself in some way? I think that he was strongly effected by the sight and interaction with this diametric opposite of 6, a broken woman with very few of the personality strengths of the one in his mind, because they've all been stripped away by her being gangraped and abused by the Pegasus crew and captain. And to engender trust between them, he brought up word for word what 6 had told him. And it worked.

I just watched it again a little while ago and the scene with Dee outside while Starbuck and Lee are talking.. you know, that little bit more than anything else made me wonder if she was a Cylon. Not because she was out there in the first place, but when he said he didn't want to come back alive and she looked so disturbed, it made me think of what Gina had just said a little earlier, that suicide was a sin. I'm probably reading way too much into it, as I am sure if I heard someone I respected (and was interested in romantically) say they wanted to die, I imagine I'd be upset too. But that just popped into my head. Then again, Ronald Moore has implied on more than one occasion that they've been building up to some thing going on between Dee and Lee, so of course its likely just worry.

Forgot to say, watching it for the 2nd time.. they really did a great job with the mood music in this one.

userfriendly
January 15th, 2006, 03:03 PM
we now, apparantly, have two cylons in the fleet that are sympathetic to the humans. what's to say there's not more?

neither of these two is sympathetic to the humans:

sharon presumably still believes that humanity as a whole doesn't deserve to survive (to adama: *hint hint* "...maybe you don't."). her motivations are the survival of her baby and one human named helo.

gina also isn't that interested in humanity's survival. her betrayal of the cylons by giving baltar information about the airforce chapel ship (beautiful thing, btw) was all too obviously motivated by her will to definitively die and not be resurrected - but now as she won't kill herself (because, conveniently, suicide is sin) and baltar would rather shoot himself in the head than blow her brains against the bulkhead, she has had time to rethink her motivation (and decides to finally take out the character whose actor had only signed for a limited amount of episodes, the wonderful michelle forbes, thank you for this great performance as the admiral). oh my frakkin gods, that scene, when baltar hands gina the gun and utters that oneliner, the looks on their faces and then she walks away, the music... perfect. that was the best scene of the whole series, i totally adored it :rolleyes: it had that special dark, cynical and yet very cool touch most of the tarantino movies have during their best scenes :D

i'm not saying that none of these two might actually switch sides later on (or rather take a side again, as my impression is that they both are only on one side: their own. they're to the cylons probably what baltar is to the humans), i just say that they are at this point not sympathetic to humanity itself.

Quinn Mallory
January 15th, 2006, 05:45 PM
we now, apparantly, have two cylons in the fleet that are sympathetic to the humans. what's to say there's not more?

Rather than having two cylons that are sympathetic to the humans (which I would also argue to be not true), there are definitely now 2 cylons that have the sympothies of some humans.

Shipperahoy
January 15th, 2006, 06:02 PM
I don't know that I would say that Gina is sympathetic towards humans. After all she was gang-raped and tortured by them, how much sympathy can she have? I think that perhaps her perception has altered some and her ultimate goals have shifted somewhat from the other Cylons but I don't see her having any kind of a more positive view of humans.

userfriendly
January 15th, 2006, 06:34 PM
Rather than having two cylons that are sympathetic to the humans (which I would also argue to be not true), there are definitely now 2 cylons that have the sympothies of some humans.

thank you, that's more to the point. our protagonists reacting to these two is really one of the most intriguing parts of BSG.

TameFarrar
January 15th, 2006, 06:36 PM
First I MUST say what an EXCELLENT episode!! :D

I was just blown away by everyone's performance and just completely enthralled for the entire time. Thank you Ron Moore et al for continuing to create such fantastic stories and Thank you to the cast for delivering such WOW performances.

*First I am one that CHEERED, literally, when Cain was shot. My first remark when they broke away for commercial was "Gads I hope they don't save her some how."
Cain was a fine character/antagonist for the few episodes that she was there but NOTHING absolutely NOTHING that happened in this episode made me feel that she was anything other than a "Power-drugged, Manipulating, Murdering, Scheming, Unethical manical woman.
Actions speak louder than words to me and this *Admiral's* actions in dealing with the Cylon attack would be considered *War Crimes* . She KNOWINGLY stripped AND marrooned the civilian ships that were part of her command and left them to die at the hands of the enemy. She KNOWINGLY coerced and MURDERED innocent civilans in order to staff her ship. She KNOWINGLY murdered members of her own command in order to instill fear in her chain of command and then commenced to ruling through fear and intimidation. She KNOWINGLY condoned depraved and lewd acts upon a prisoner, regardless of the inner workings of said prisoner, this was still a POW and as an Admiral she has a duty and an obligation to uphold at the very least the traits and characteristics that separate humans from animals.
There is more but I don't want to use my entire post to list all of the atrocities that Admiral Cain committed to get to this episode.

So for her to have been shot in the head was almost ...almost too good for her.
Also while Cain and Adama butting heads did make for some tense moments for me that would have gootn *old* fairly quickly.

*Giaus and Six/Gina - What performance overall in all three of the episode of this trilogy by Tricia Helfer!! :) When you realize that she has not had that many roles prior to this I am just amazed and astounded at the range shown by this woman. She was beyond description (or spelling the phenom word :)) WOW. This character IS the enemy and she has had no compuntion in killing her enemy and yet Tricia gave such a performance that you did feel sorry for this poor ravaged woman. Since we were given no real background on *how* Gina killed during her time on the Pegasus, I am going with the assuption that she followed her programming and killed quickly and stealthily, not wanting to draw attention and then upon detection fought like mad but at no time was there any indication that she went beyond what we would think of normally when thinking of a soldier killing in battle. For this reason I can think of absolutely NO reason for the treatment she received at teh hands of the Pegasus crew and the fact that she was the *Hand of Justice* in killing Cain was DEAD-ON and a perfect selection.
Although I too am a bit miffed at Sci-Fi for spoiling that moment because the gun , in the promos, was in the killer's LEFT hand and while my household was speculating it must be Dr Baltar since Kara is right handed and so is Lee, the FACT that they ruined that tension we SHOULD have had in the moments Kara faced cain was annoying :(

Giaus was so well played, confused, angry and vengeful all rolled into one man. Wonderful performance and very believable.
Although I do hope we do see an explanation about Six and his brain :) Personally, the *sports thing* lost me. Maybe I need to watch again to understand where this whole thing was going because I really had no clue how it applied to Gina and why it would affect her and hurt Six.


*Kara and Lee
Katee Sackoff can do no wrong in my eyes in most episodes. :) she just seems to have an innate feel for Starbuck and is incredible! However, I was a bit taken aback as well by her speech at Cain's funeral. Then as I read posts here some things jibbed. Thank you all you Kara posters :)
I do think she looked at Cain almost as a *Mother Figure* and the approval she got from her made her blind to a few things. This post stuck out to me as well.....

Kara didn't have all the info when she said those words at Cain's funeral.

2) Kara didn't know about the Civilian fleet Cain abandoned. Kara's big time on going back to rescue the survivors on Caprica, it wouldn't have sat well with her that Cain strnded several hundred people.
I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY that Kara has no clue the extent of Admiral Cain's atrocities committed in teh name of war and human survival. In fact I think in the coming future we will see Kara spiral downward because she will have such a *Hero Complex* about Cain and will then begin finding out just how evil this woman really was and Kara will be at odds with herself that yet again the woman she CHOSE to admire turns out to be not only as bad but possibly even worse than her own mother.

Lee seems to be faced with having almost everything he believed that made him who he is torn to shreds. Each time he finds something solid to base his faith in, that person or ideal seems to crumble away in the pressure of things. He has yet to find a place within himself to make his stand.
I saw the fact that all this came about right when once again Kara needed him he would NOT be there to watch her back, physically OR emotionally and he was just done....

Dee standing outside the door...that was just wierd and creepy to me. I have heard the rumors of the Dee/Lee thing and I just sighed... So in order for Lee to work through his issues he is about to become BSG's Man-Whore.... thats nice :S

Adama and Laura
EJO and MM have got to be hands down the BEST casting desicion EVER made on this show :) :) The entire evolution of this relationship so far has been believable, real and just a HUGE pleasure to watch. The Promotion scene was just beautifully done and the superior talent of these two actors just boggles the mind. There was no need to even attempt to suspend disbelief. These two held me in the palm of their hands for that entire scene. Just incredible!!

other highlights :)
*The Pegasus first Officer's reaction to NOT having to shoot Adama was priceless and so real... well done
*The chief taunting the disgusting wanna be soldiers now turned depraved rapists was well done. Again superb job by the Peg. 1st Ofc. believable and well delivered
*The Chief upon returning to BSG and the reunion of Helo and Sharon
*** The entire battle scene WOW!!! I am definitely more of a charater driven person but I was again just blown away at the SFX of that sequence.

This show just keeps getting better and Better and I look forward to Fridays :)

userfriendly
January 15th, 2006, 07:08 PM
you really like to make it short, do you? :D


First I MUST say what an EXCELLENT episode!! :D
seconded :)


Although I do hope we do see an explanation about Six and his brain :)
yes, we didn't see her anymore after they blew up that resurrection ship :rolleyes: hmmmmm, i wonder....



Personally, the *sports thing* lost me. Maybe I need to watch again to understand where this whole thing was going because I really had no clue how it applied to Gina and why it would affect her and hurt Six.
lol then just watch the part 1 episode and actually listen to six while she is laying totally naked in baltars bed for fraks sake :D i admit it's hard to not just watch and drool, but if you listen to what she says to ensnare baltar again, that scene from part 2 will make more sense to you :)


I agree WHOLEHEARTEDLY that Kara has no clue the extent of Admiral Cain's atrocities committed in teh name of war and human survival...
i think in the meantime she knows, but imho it doesn't really matter. it may be more about the don't-speak-ill-of-the-dead-thing.


So in order for Lee to work through his issues he is about to become BSG's Man-Whore.... thats nice :S
yeah that kind of worries me too. i mean, i wouldn't exactly want the characters to be celibate, but i'd feel sorry for the president's aide, what's his name, he is one of the few actually sane persons the average viewer can identify with :D


Adama and Laura
EJO and MM have got to be hands down the BEST casting desicion EVER made on this show :) :)
i absolutely agree. i thought, if there would be an all-too-soon series ending - this would be the best moment. no no wait, i didn't say i want the series to end, no please... put that knife away again, thank you :rolleyes: and that bludgeon there, too :D no, i mean, IF they were to kill the series prematurely - which not many of us would be able to cope with :eek: at least not me - it would be nice if they manage to let it happen with such a really, really great episode.

DaniGurl
January 16th, 2006, 08:00 AM
[QUOTE=TameFarrar]First I MUST say what an EXCELLENT episode!! :D
Dee standing outside the door...that was just wierd and creepy to me. I have heard the rumors of the Dee/Lee thing and I just sighed... So in order for Lee to work through his issues he is about to become BSG's Man-Whore.... thats nice :S

QUOTE]

I don't understand how if Lee And Dee get involved it would make him a man whore. He hasn't had any other relationships that I know of. He can't get with Starbuck. Their relationship: one is just too complicated for that and more importantly two: she slept with his brother. Big fat yuck. They've already hinted at the Dee/Lee relationship--I can't remeber the ep--when he was teaching them how to fight. If Dee is sweet on him and I dunno, maybe she was going to see him and Starbuck was already there. Hell I would've listened too. And I think Billy is a Cylon.

D.

madk99
January 16th, 2006, 09:03 AM
Giaus was so well played, confused, angry and vengeful all rolled into one man. Wonderful performance and very believable.
Although I do hope we do see an explanation about Six and his brain :) Personally, the *sports thing* lost me. Maybe I need to watch again to understand where this whole thing was going because I really had no clue how it applied to Gina and why it would affect her and hurt Six.

I think that was a bit of a test by Baltar. Her certainly knows that Internal Six (that slab of lunchmeat in his brain) is manipulating him -- but of course, he believes that he is actually in control. Think of this like the "advertising paradox". Ask a room full of people if advertising affects peoples behavior and most will aggree. Then ask those same people if advertising affects personally their individual behavior and no one will admit it. Each person thinks he is immune but it affects everyone else. (Try it)
In this same way Baltar knows that Lunchmeat Six is trying to manipulate him. He knows this and believes that his decisions are HIS decisions. I think this was one of those moments where a person suddenly realizes he has been duped all along. To verify this was true he tried to use the story just as it was used on him. And he confirmed that the story had the desired affect of manipulation of the tellee (as opposed to the teller :) )
So this, I think, is a change in relationship to the only one where Baltar feels comfortable -- the kind in which HE is in control. AFter he realized he was being controlled more than he thought, he sought to change the nature of the relationship. So he jettisoned the controller and picked up a controllee. One who was so emotionally damaged that now he has the upper hand.

Bl4de
January 16th, 2006, 10:10 AM
Gina lives, Cain dead = me happy ^,^

Also before complaining about anything listen to the podcast.

http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/mp3/212/bsg_ep212_FULL.mp3

Alot of plot things people complain about Moore explains so they make sense.

I don't know what people are complaining about this episode (I thought it was perfect), but really, should a TV series episode be made where the only way to get it to make sense is to be internet-literate and download a podcast off a site that's not easily advertised and sit there and listen to the producers explanations? I always thought good TV was the opposite of that, understanding what you just saw as you saw it, not having to research and download mp3's and listen to commentary...

But I really don't think that about BSG, I've never once listened to a podcast, I don't want the producer telling me what I'm supposed to think. I think the show does a perfect job of it.



On a side note, does anyone have any clue to the name of Bear McCreary's (BSG's composer) song names on this episode? Namely the one playing during the battle scenes and when Adama kisses Roslin.

Liebestraume
January 16th, 2006, 11:53 AM
*And what's up with Dee sneaking around and listening to Lee and Kara's conversation? Hated that.


Dee standing outside the door...that was just wierd and creepy to me. ...

That scene felt jarring to me as well, particularly because Dee always seemed to be a sensible, down-to-earth kind of girl.

It is entirely possible that Dee initially went over out of concern for Lee and overheard part of his conversation with Kara by accident. However, where it became inappropriate was, upon learning his deepest, darkest secret, she decided to stay and listen.

I cannot buy the eavesdrop as a sign of friendly concern. Confession of such a personal nature is meant solely for the audience of one; in this case, his best friend. If Lee wanted Dee to know, he would tell her himself -- in his own time and in his own way; otherwise, it would not be her place to know.

Perhaps the purpose of this scene was solely to lay the foundation for a 'ship. IMHO it didn't feel like something that Dee would do. It was a weak moment of an otherwise brilliant episode.

TameFarrar
January 16th, 2006, 03:33 PM
First I MUST say what an EXCELLENT episode!! :D
Dee standing outside the door...that was just wierd and creepy to me. I have heard the rumors of the Dee/Lee thing and I just sighed... So in order for Lee to work through his issues he is about to become BSG's Man-Whore.... thats nice :S




I don't understand how if Lee And Dee get involved it would make him a man whore. He hasn't had any other relationships that I know of. He can't get with Starbuck. Their relationship: one is just too complicated for that and more importantly two: she slept with his brother. Big fat yuck. They've already hinted at the Dee/Lee relationship--I can't remeber the ep--when he was teaching them how to fight. If Dee is sweet on him and I dunno, maybe she was going to see him and Starbuck was already there. Hell I would've listened too. And I think Billy is a Cylon.

D.
Mainly the reason I am a bit worried is because of OTHER rumors I have heard for episodes down the road passed Dee.....I have tried really hard to stay spoiler free so I don't know all the details but I do know there is more to come....plus the stuff with Dee was in *Deleted* scenes more than it was shown in the actual show so for me it is creepy :)

completely understand that not all folks like Lee and Kara ending up finding a way to finally be together once they work through all the emotional baggage....I personally am one that roots for that relationsip to finally happen :)

TameFarrar
January 16th, 2006, 03:35 PM
I think that was a bit of a test by Baltar. Her certainly knows that Internal Six (that slab of lunchmeat in his brain) is manipulating him -- but of course, he believes that he is actually in control. Think of this like the "advertising paradox". Ask a room full of people if advertising affects peoples behavior and most will aggree. Then ask those same people if advertising affects personally their individual behavior and no one will admit it. Each person thinks he is immune but it affects everyone else. (Try it)
In this same way Baltar knows that Lunchmeat Six is trying to manipulate him. He knows this and believes that his decisions are HIS decisions. I think this was one of those moments where a person suddenly realizes he has been duped all along. To verify this was true he tried to use the story just as it was used on him. And he confirmed that the story had the desired affect of manipulation of the tellee (as opposed to the teller :) )
So this, I think, is a change in relationship to the only one where Baltar feels comfortable -- the kind in which HE is in control. AFter he realized he was being controlled more than he thought, he sought to change the nature of the relationship. So he jettisoned the controller and picked up a controllee. One who was so emotionally damaged that now he has the upper hand.
ok that makes some sense in a weird Baltarish :) sort of way

TameFarrar
January 16th, 2006, 03:43 PM
That scene felt jarring to me as well, particularly because Dee always seemed to be a sensible, down-to-earth kind of girl.

It is entirely possible that Dee initially went over out of concern for Lee and overheard part of his conversation with Kara by accident. However, where it became inappropriate was, upon learning his deepest, darkest secret, she decided to stay and listen.

I cannot buy the eavesdrop as a sign of friendly concern. Confession of such a personal nature is meant solely for the audience of one; in this case, his best friend. If Lee wanted Dee to know, he would tell her himself -- in his own time and in his own way; otherwise, it would not be her place to know.

Perhaps the purpose of this scene was solely to lay the foundation for a 'ship. IMHO it didn't feel like something that Dee would do. It was a weak moment of an otherwise brilliant episode.
I felt a bit jarred myself and that is why the *Creep* factor. We never know who might be a cylon and my husband agrees with the person who replied to me last and thinks Billy is one.....yells it out every time poor Billy shows up on the screen :)

But The fact that there really hasn't been a whole lot of build-up for this *Ship* with the exception of that very minute moment in the gym its hard to see this type of behavior from her.

Also if you have watched the deleted scenes it does make more sense because it shows more of a mutual thing happening and the sexual tension BUT the fact is they are DELETED scenes so they have no bearing and thus Dee's behavior seems very strange.

Also during all that time she has still been making a fuss with Billy. we had the big build-up of that relationship as well as her running over to him at teh gym door and the moment in the infirmary. Is her character that wishy washy when it comes to men??? That she would sculk around in hallways and listen at doors??? It just made me think ick all the way around about what they had this character doing

keshou
January 16th, 2006, 07:51 PM
That scene felt jarring to me as well, particularly because Dee always seemed to be a sensible, down-to-earth kind of girl.

It is entirely possible that Dee initially went over out of concern for Lee and overheard part of his conversation with Kara by accident. However, where it became inappropriate was, upon learning his deepest, darkest secret, she decided to stay and listen.

I cannot buy the eavesdrop as a sign of friendly concern. Confession of such a personal nature is meant solely for the audience of one; in this case, his best friend. If Lee wanted Dee to know, he would tell her himself -- in his own time and in his own way; otherwise, it would not be her place to know.

Perhaps the purpose of this scene was solely to lay the foundation for a 'ship. IMHO it didn't feel like something that Dee would do. It was a weak moment of an otherwise brilliant episode.


But The fact that there really hasn't been a whole lot of build-up for this *Ship* with the exception of that very minute moment in the gym its hard to see this type of behavior from her.

Also if you have watched the deleted scenes it does make more sense because it shows more of a mutual thing happening and the sexual tension BUT the fact is they are DELETED scenes so they have no bearing and thus Dee's behavior seems very strange.

Also during all that time she has still been making a fuss with Billy. we had the big build-up of that relationship as well as her running over to him at teh gym door and the moment in the infirmary. Is her character that wishy washy when it comes to men??? That she would sculk around in hallways and listen at doors??? It just made me think ick all the way around about what they had this character doing
That's how I felt. It just seemed weird. Dee has been very level-headed and forthright and seems like an honest person. It just seemed out of character.

Even if there are deleted scenes with sexual tension galore it seemed very strange. Sure hope Dee isn't being used as a plot device just to throw a monkeywrench into the whole Lee/Kara thing. That always backfires (see SG-1 S7-S8).

But really it's a minor nitpick in an otherwise splendid two-parter.

Hmmmm.....but if Dee's a Cylon - and at one time I was convinced she was, after conveniently surviving that attack - then this whole scene might make total sense.

Of course I've been convinced that EVERYONE's a Cylon at one time or another. Except Roslin. And Starbuck. ;)

LoneStar1836
January 16th, 2006, 08:46 PM
That scene felt jarring to me as well, particularly because Dee always seemed to be a sensible, down-to-earth kind of girl.
{snip}
Perhaps the purpose of this scene was solely to lay the foundation for a 'ship. IMHO it didn't feel like something that Dee would do. It was a weak moment of an otherwise brilliant episode.I agree. That was jarring. Here I am focusing on what Lee's saying and then they cut away to her listening in. :S

I have a pretty good idea of what they are trying to do, but not in this way. I wouldn't mind so much the edging toward a Lee/Dee ship by the writers, but I didn't care for that scene.

One thing I did wonder about though was did Dee hear Lee over the radio when he was "telling" Kara that he was sorry?

GALACTIC MYTH
January 16th, 2006, 10:16 PM
That was fracking awesome. I just saw the ep tonight cause I missed it friday (never looked forward to a monday in my life until now). In general I am overwhelmed at the moment and can't get all my thoughts together just yet.

I wasn't expecting Cain to withdraw the order on the assasination attempt on Adama, and that through me off. After I saw that I felt Cain can't be to bad, yes she made decisions, yes they were hard, yes most of us say we would never do such things, (I am not saying I would do them, I think she and her decisions were wrong when it came to civilians and the Lt. and Tyrol.) But like she said "the day comes when we make that terrible sin, but all I ask is when the time comes, don't flinch, not a second thought" she was implying that she made mistakes and regrets them deeply.

I knew that six was going to kill Cain, but didn't know how she was going to do it or how she got out of her cell. Now I think Baltar is in way over his head and helped her off the Pegasus (dumb-ass pr***) cause he said "I can protect you, because I love you" or something like that. I bet he looses track off her and alot of **** is going to be are way with them.

Now I'm not to happy about Frisk becoming the commander of the Pegasus, I said it before and I'll say it again I don't like him, don't trust him, and think he's a fracking coward. (but was very happy to see Helo and Tyrol released).

Also the Funral oh my, Kara's speech wow but I would have to agree in some things that the fleet was "better with her then without her", I did verymuch respect Cain until she was shot then mixed emotions came in. Kara is also in a major crossraod and is lost in the fact I don't think she knows who she is anymore in a sence, (like we all are or were in our teens) nor does she know who to trust or follow. That shown in the sene with Lee/Kara the relationship between them is changing and not sure if its for the good. I think Kara was scared to hear Lee say he didn't want to come back alive, that changes everything.

The sene with Lee/Kara/Dee it was very well done, I liked it, not sure where its going to lead but its going to evolve into something.

LoneStar1836: I do believe that Dee herd Lee say he was sorry (maybe that is why she listened into there conversation in the first place, don't know but believable.)

Oh and the poor Blackbird, I loved that ship why did they have to destroy it.

sorry for rambling just loved this ep.

Easter Lily
January 17th, 2006, 01:52 AM
While I liked this episode, I found it anti-climactic... I don't mean to be contrary but I was really looking forward to seeing Kara pull the trigger... not because I'm particularly blood-thirsty but because I wondered what kind of impact that act would have on Kara... Furthermore, I thought it was rather convenient that it was left to the cylon to do the deed at the end... relieving the humans of the responsibility of having to deal with one of their own.

I seem to remember a discussion on the previous thread about whether Adama needed Roslin to "pull him into line" and I think this episode really answers that question. I used to think that Roslin's presence tempered Adama's military instincts but now I'm not sure I believe that. I think Cain and Adama are an interesting study of contrasts. Even if having Roslin around did influence his decision the first time to run rather than engage the enemy ultimately he made up his own mind... after looking at his crew and the men and women he cared about. Notice also that Cain was accompanied by a civillian presence but chose to see them as an encumberance and then exploit their resources.
Although Adama is career military and has good survival instincts... he is fundamentally a man of reason. He considers, he thinks and then he acts for the greater good. At least twice now, we see that he has acted based on what he knows and believes to be right not because of Roslin but sometimes contrary to her advice. This is why I like the character and why I believe he commands the respect of his people. He allows himself to persuaded with logic and reasons, and at the end of the day, doesn't fight for the sake of fighting (which I think Cain is about... Cain thrives on conflict and action which is why she sees something of herself in Kara, who is IMO cut from the same cloth). Better than most, he understands that the cylon may be the obvious enemy but he also understands that humanity is often its own worst problem.

USA1290
January 17th, 2006, 07:58 AM
She had to say something good about Cain at the funeral.

For two, she probably still has a lot of supporters from the crew. Meaning saying that, in a little room like that, might wind up with a fight breaking out and someone decking her.


Hello: I'm glad to see you say that. Thats like I was thinking. Cain may have had some hardcore supporters & there may have been some who were'nt aware of what was going on.

USA1290
January 17th, 2006, 08:03 AM
So is Six in Baltar's head gone for good?

Greetings, thats what I was thinking. Now he has someone real & since he can focus on Gina. SIX has disolved.
On the other hand, prehaps she has just gone into hiding & is plotting her revenge. He DID use her sports speech to Gina.

USA1290
January 17th, 2006, 08:23 AM
I don't think Cain did flinch because I don't think Cain ever really decided not to terminate Adama's command, as it was so delightfully put forth by her. I think it was good that it was shown her deciding to not go through with her decision at that moment, but I think in many ways that it was only a temporary decision on her part. I think she wanted to see how things would go with Adama first, now that she had first hand knowledge of how effective the two Battlestars are together, and then decide later on what to do with Adama. But I don't think she really flinched, or backpedalled in any way in making the decision to go through with it. She essentially made a non-decision.

Hello: I can see both points. My take is I think she did'nt go through with it because she was outnumbered. There was the crew of BSG, the President & the entire fleet. That would have been a lot to contend with.

USA1290
January 17th, 2006, 08:27 AM
Just to clarify, we ARE allowed to post spoilers here in the episode commentary in plain text without all the rigamarole, warnings and white-outs, right? Just no where else?

Yes, I read the yellow colored thread from Darren. He said it is ok here in the episode discussion threads. ALL other places, you must use the spoiler procedures.:)

GALACTIC MYTH
January 17th, 2006, 03:38 PM
So is Six in Baltar's head gone for good?

Originally Posted by USA1290: Greetings, thats what I was thinking. Now he has someone real & since he can focus on Gina. SIX has disolved.
On the other hand, prehaps she has just gone into hiding & is plotting her revenge. He DID use her sports speech to Gina.

I believe Six is in hiding only for a while until the perfect oppurtinuty comes when Baltar goes in a panic without Gina or something. But going on Mr. Ron Morre's style so far, but it seems to be changing, but I don't think he'll cancel out SIX just yet.

I do agree with you USA1290, at least for now. ;)

Liebestraume
January 17th, 2006, 06:00 PM
One thing I did wonder about though was did Dee hear Lee over the radio when he was "telling" Kara that he was sorry?I am inclined to think that Dee did hear Lee's "last words," which is why I cut her some slack for accidentally overhearing the first part of Kara and Lee's convo. (I still think it was out of character for her to stay on and listen.)

Of course, there is always the possibility that Lee's radio was somehow knocked out, which could explain why he had been answering her call.

So, yeah, in short -- I have no clue. :p

Hopefully this would be cleared up in the upcoming episode(s). The writers seem to be very determined on the 'ship. This could be something Lee and Dee will talk about.

USA1290
January 17th, 2006, 06:16 PM
I believe Six is in hiding only for a while until the perfect oppurtinuty comes when Baltar goes in a panic without Gina or something. But going on Mr. Ron Morre's style so far, but it seems to be changing, but I don't think he'll cancel out SIX just yet.

I do agree with you USA1290, at least for now. ;)

Greetings & Hello:

I agree with you in agreeing with me.-:D That makes sense story wise that SIX is laying low. Also, in reality, Tricia did get that TV job hosting the modeling show & may have needed the extra time off for awhile. I think its kind of early in the series to write SIX off also. Thats is one of the big things in the story, is she real or is she Baltars psychosis?
Stephen

GateTrek2004
January 18th, 2006, 03:51 AM
This is my first post being a member! I think this ep. was sooooo great! I wsa so upset that I missed part 1 but glas this ep was good not seeing it! Im glad that cain dies but very glad they did not get rid of pegasus. now they will have 2 battlestars in the fleet and maybe more opportunites to kick the cylon's butt when an opportunity comes along later. Can't wait for friday!

Thermonuclearboy
January 18th, 2006, 10:02 AM
Is it just me, or is Boomer rapidly becoming "Bondage Chick"? Every time we see her she's in a collar or restraints. And she looks good in them...

ahem.

As for Baltar's inconsistent behavior, well...you wake up one day to find out not only that you're girlfriend's a toaster but also that you singlehandedly caused the destruction of your entire civilization, then tell me how sane you'll feel.

:p

GALACTIC MYTH
January 18th, 2006, 10:38 AM
Is it just me, or is Boomer rapidly becoming "Bondage Chick"? Every time we see her she's in a collar or restraints. And she looks good in them...

ahem.

As for Baltar's inconsistent behavior, well...you wake up one day to find out not only that you're girlfriend's a toaster but also that you singlehandedly caused the destruction of your entire civilization, then tell me how sane you'll feel.

:p


Well you have to be insane/crazy to give your girlfriend access to the defence mainframe in the first place, and that was before he found out she was a toaster.



This is my first post being a member! I think this ep. was sooooo great! I wsa so upset that I missed part 1 but glas this ep was good not seeing it! Im glad that cain dies but very glad they did not get rid of pegasus. now they will have 2 battlestars in the fleet and maybe more opportunites to kick the cylon's butt when an opportunity comes along later. Can't wait for friday

Just wanted to say welcome to the forum. Also if you don't already know, they do a repeat of Fridays episodes on Monday night at 11:00pm est, 10:00pm ct. thats how I cought "Resurrection Part 2".

Mr. Seven
January 18th, 2006, 11:24 AM
I'm really liking Baltar right now.

Sure he made a big mistake that caused the genocide of the 12 Colonies, but he didn't mean to do it. Had he known he sure as hell wouldn't have let it happen.

He's morphing into a more dark character now, but I like how he recognizes the Cylons humans for people and not machines in the strictest sense.

Callis is damn versatile too. He does the drama so well, but when he wants laughs he makes it look easy.

apollo123
January 18th, 2006, 11:37 AM
Well you have to be insane/crazy to give your girlfriend access to the defence mainframe in the first place, and that was before he found out she was a toaster.


Well not exactly insane. Just a man who thinks with his you know what. It's not like in his wildest nightmares he would even fathom that she's a Cylon who will cause the destruction of the human race.

GALACTIC MYTH
January 18th, 2006, 04:41 PM
Well not exactly insane. Just a man who thinks with his you know what. It's not like in his wildest nightmares he would even fathom that she's a Cylon who will cause the destruction of the human race.

But even though he thinks with his you know what, you still don't just give someone you don't even love (mini series gets cought in bed with another women doesn't even say love until mid season 1) that kind of access. You (Baltar) must be at least stupid beyond stupid.

Lightsabre
January 18th, 2006, 05:06 PM
Well not exactly insane. Just a man who thinks with his you know what. It's not like in his wildest nightmares he would even fathom that she's a Cylon who will cause the destruction of the human race.
She gave him a good reason to want it. Bidding on defence contracts for next year.

Quinn Mallory
January 18th, 2006, 05:53 PM
I am inclined to think that Dee did hear Lee's "last words," which is why I cut her some slack for accidentally overhearing the first part of Kara and Lee's convo. (I still think it was out of character for her to stay on and listen.)

Of course, there is always the possibility that Lee's radio was somehow knocked out, which could explain why he had been answering her call.

So, yeah, in short -- I have no clue. :p

Hopefully this would be cleared up in the upcoming episode(s). The writers seem to be very determined on the 'ship. This could be something Lee and Dee will talk about.

I'm not sure I'm answering the same question but if you listen to the podcast commentary, there was supposed to be another scene right after Apollo talked to his father about the plot to assasinate Cain, there was supposed to be a similar talk or something like that between Apollo and Dee. So perhaps the idea was that Apollo is letting Dee into the loop a lot more than it had been shown.

GALACTIC MYTH
January 18th, 2006, 07:27 PM
Although there may have been delected senes with Lee and Dee that would let her more into the loop with the assasination. They didn't air that version so we as the audience aren't suppose to know that, thats why they call them deleted senes.

I don't have an ipod so I can't do any of the podcast.

azarhal
January 18th, 2006, 08:04 PM
Although there may have been delected senes with Lee and Dee that would let her more into the loop with the assasination. They didn't air that version so we as the audience aren't suppose to know that, thats why they call them deleted senes.

I don't have an ipod so I can't do any of the podcast.

The podcast are .mp3, you can listen to them on any computer.

downloads link: http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/

As for the delete scene, wouldn't telling someone else of the "assasination" be agains regs? Lee couldn't have tell Dee about it, unless he wanted for his father to put him in the brig.

userfriendly
January 18th, 2006, 08:28 PM
But even though he thinks with his you know what, you still don't just give someone you don't even love (mini series gets cought in bed with another women doesn't even say love until mid season 1) that kind of access. You (Baltar) must be at least stupid beyond stupid.

she rewrote half of his algorithms for the nav program, so sex was obviously not his only interest in her. maybe he had begun this relationship probably for exactly this reason in the first place (as far as he was concerned, that is).

GateTrek2004
January 18th, 2006, 09:14 PM
Just wanted to say welcome to the forum. Also if you don't already know, they do a repeat of Fridays episodes on Monday night at 11:00pm est, 10:00pm ct. thats how I cought "Resurrection Part 2".

thanks GALACTIC MYTH! yes i do know that it re-airs but after it was over i realized i missed it.

GALACTIC MYTH
January 19th, 2006, 09:23 AM
The podcast are .mp3, you can listen to them on any computer.

downloads link: http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/

As for the delete scene, wouldn't telling someone else of the "assasination" be agains regs? Lee couldn't have tell Dee about it, unless he wanted for his father to put him in the brig.

First of all, thank you.

Even if Lee told Dee against regs, that has never stopped the characters themselves to follow all regulations, (in some cases). Plus Dee helped him before and they trust eachother. (again I haven't seen or herd any of the deleted senes I just read from another post and this is what I understood).

GALACTIC MYTH
January 19th, 2006, 09:28 AM
she rewrote half of his algorithms for the nav program, so sex was obviously not his only interest in her. maybe he had begun this relationship probably for exactly this reason in the first place (as far as he was concerned, that is).

Thats very true, but he would still be giving her inside information that wasn't presented to anyone else. (I'm assuming he could of been thrown in jail for that, thats if someone found out. but don't know).

GateTrek2004
January 19th, 2006, 09:30 AM
Where do you all see the deleted scenes? just wondering!!! thanks all!!!

GALACTIC MYTH
January 19th, 2006, 10:04 AM
Where do you all see the deleted scenes? just wondering!!! thanks all!!!

In the commentaries they talk/explain some delected senes of the ep. from http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/
(www.scifi.com) threw the podcasts. Also if you go to episodes (also a section in the site) they may have them listed below each ep, if you click the episode. (don't know if that makes sense) You would need I believe Quiktime or Reelplayer (can't remmeber off the top of my head.)

hope this helps.

voigtstr
January 19th, 2006, 02:55 PM
I felt a bit jarred myself and that is why the *Creep* factor. We never know who might be a cylon and my husband agrees with the person who replied to me last and thinks Billy is one.....yells it out every time poor Billy shows up on the screen :)

But The fact that there really hasn't been a whole lot of build-up for this *Ship* with the exception of that very minute moment in the gym its hard to see this type of behavior from her.

Also if you have watched the deleted scenes it does make more sense because it shows more of a mutual thing happening and the sexual tension BUT the fact is they are DELETED scenes so they have no bearing and thus Dee's behavior seems very strange.

Also during all that time she has still been making a fuss with Billy. we had the big build-up of that relationship as well as her running over to him at teh gym door and the moment in the infirmary. Is her character that wishy washy when it comes to men??? That she would sculk around in hallways and listen at doors??? It just made me think ick all the way around about what they had this character doing
I'm pretty sure that Dee was a cylon every since she went up and smooched Billy in the pilot

voigtstr
January 19th, 2006, 03:06 PM
in reserrection ship 1 the blackbird has an ftl drive.
in reserrection ship 2 the blackbird has at least one missile launcher?

When did it get these capabilities?

apollo123
January 19th, 2006, 03:45 PM
she rewrote half of his algorithms for the nav program, so sex was obviously not his only interest in her. maybe he had begun this relationship probably for exactly this reason in the first place (as far as he was concerned, that is).

Yes and he's proven that he's pretty selfish. He tends to think about his own well being before anyone else. So this hot programmer lady who he's having sex with and who's helping him with his work asks him to give her security access so that she can help him even more? Sure, why not! It's not she's going to use it to plan an all-out attack on humanity or anything. Nah, don't be crazy.

userfriendly
January 19th, 2006, 08:49 PM
in reserrection ship 1 the blackbird has an ftl drive.
in reserrection ship 2 the blackbird has at least one missile launcher?

When did it get these capabilities?
the ftl jump capability is a property of the engines. it was built-in. i'm fine with that.
an external missile pod with one or two rockets can be mounted very quickly if needed.


Yes and he's proven that he's pretty selfish. He tends to think about his own well being before anyone else. So this hot programmer lady who he's having sex with and who's helping him with his work asks him to give her security access so that she can help him even more? Sure, why not! It's not she's going to use it to plan an all-out attack on humanity or anything. Nah, don't be crazy.
exactly. he didn't even believe his own ears when she told him the truth. he thought she used him for getting the foot into the door for further defence contracts. and he thought he would get the free time (she does the work) AND the sex, so everything was fine... until that day, when... er, well... we know...

GateTrek2004
January 19th, 2006, 09:48 PM
In the commentaries they talk/explain some delected senes of the ep. from http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/
(www.scifi.com) threw the podcasts. Also if you go to episodes (also a section in the site) they may have them listed below each ep, if you click the episode. (don't know if that makes sense) You would need I believe Quiktime or Reelplayer (can't remmeber off the top of my head.)

hope this helps.

Thanks GALACTIC MYTH! I will look into seeing them!

GateTrek2004
January 19th, 2006, 09:52 PM
Is it just me, or is Boomer rapidly becoming "Bondage Chick"? Every time we see her she's in a collar or restraints. And she looks good in them...

ahem.


:p

i will agree with you on that Thermonuclearboy! she does look hot
:)

GALACTIC MYTH
January 20th, 2006, 08:08 AM
Yes and he's proven that he's pretty selfish. He tends to think about his own well being before anyone else. So this hot programmer lady who he's having sex with and who's helping him with his work asks him to give her security access so that she can help him even more? Sure, why not! It's not she's going to use it to plan an all-out attack on humanity or anything. Nah, don't be crazy.


Ok Now I understand where you and Userfriendly are coming from that makes a lot of sense and Completely agree with you two now.

GALACTIC MYTH
January 20th, 2006, 08:09 AM
10 hrs 50 mins. and counting!!!!!

Night Marshal
February 10th, 2006, 01:31 AM
I really was disappointed in this ep. It seems below the Bar of what I come to expect from Battlestar Galactica. The pacing is off, the character moments are draw out to the point where I just don't care about some it anymore, and Lee in the river just doesn't work for me.

I think the root of most of the problems is two parts is just to much. Where Peg was Fast hard and leaves you wanting more Resurrection ship parts one and two just leave you saying "Well Kain gone I guess I can count my blessings and we and they got a shinny new Battlestar." other than that I feel we that his ep feels me thinking that they could have done better, and hearing Moore talk I feel that this show is a little off its Axis. Not knowing where it going and from what I have seen of season two and that fact very little movements of the series since Miniseries holds that up. I mean a show is based on Characters but what’s the point of having a foundation if you not going to put a house on top of it.

Maybe Season 3 will be a little better start showing where the series is going what can we expect to see the it to just go down hill from here. I hope not this is still the best Sci-Fi Show on TV today and it makes me sad if the First season marked the high point of series.

chyron
February 11th, 2006, 04:56 AM
Gina lives, Cain dead = me happy ^,^

Also before complaining about anything listen to the podcast.

http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/downloads/podcast/mp3/212/bsg_ep212_FULL.mp3

Alot of plot things people complain about Moore explains so they make sense.

I think that it would have been interesting if Cain had been kidnapped and taken to the Cylon homeworld to live out the rest of her life in an exhibit entitled "WHY WE FIGHT"

beale947
March 21st, 2006, 01:55 PM
ok i'm in england and just seen it, and i felt sorry for Cain in the end, but she got what she deserved, but i feel sorry for her, and also well done Admiral Adama.

Billy Batson
March 22nd, 2006, 03:26 AM
http://www.gateworld.net/galactica/news/graphics/cain01.jpg

Please pardon me for the lateness of this post but I am a UK member and this only aired last night but I had to talk about, I am so psyched by it.

Men, last nights episodes were something else, I'll have to give a joint review :

This was just fragging awesome!

clashes of ego and personality and I love the fact that at the end of Part 1 both Adama and Cain basically come to the same conclusion as how to finish it, even though in Adama's case it really was the Presidents prompting and she is showing a mean streak!!

I still believe that in terms of whose right and whose wrong I would have to say Adama does not have a leg to stand on.

Plus Adama has really lost in my opinion the right to pull up anybody for rank insurbodination

While Cain my have been a bit tightlaced and strict, I think it is still well within her rights.

Starbuck in these 2 episodes really becomes the lens through which we look at both Cain and Adama and she makes her conclusions and I tell you I was glad when she said what she said and fans of Adama you will not be happy with it.

I take one phrase from these 2 episodes : "do not flinch"

Love it!

I would say Part 1 was the much stronger episode and would give it 9/10

Part 2 was really let down by the finally resolution which I find hard to swallow and I really detest VP Baltor and would wish he gets his comeuppence very soon.

But the speech Starbuck gave at the funeral in the end was awesome and I hope will have ramifications in the long run.

Chief and that other Pilot are really annoying me with thier love for Cylon Boomer!

She is a Cylon godammit!! a freaking toaster!
The same creatures that have almost wiped out the whole human race!
Get f***ing real!

They both should be court martailled and stripped of rank for what happened.

I cannot believe that Apollo and co are giving them too much slack. Talking about Apollo self, I am not impressed with him at all and the other CAG from Pegasus was more in charge to my eyes.

I reckon Starbuck will make a better CAG than Apollo.

Let me draw a breath

ellymelly
March 22nd, 2006, 04:23 AM
On a side note, does anyone have any clue to the name of Bear McCreary's (BSG's composer) song names on this episode? Namely the one playing during the battle scenes and when Adama kisses Roslin.

funnily enough it's called "Adama and Roslin" LMAO :D

Othere
March 25th, 2006, 12:27 PM
She had to say something good about Cain at the funeral.

For one, it's kinda bad to speak ill of the dead.

For two, she probably still has a lot of supporters from the crew. Meaning saying that, in a little room like that, might wind up with a fight breaking out and someone decking her.

Wonder how long Galactica personnel will be on Pegasus. Kara is still a Captain, and still the CAG there as of right now. :)

I think that she believed what she said, not just to appease the crew of the pegasus. I think that for all her flaws, Starbuck could see something in Cai - hence her comments in the speech.

ToasterOnFire
March 25th, 2006, 01:44 PM
On a side note, does anyone have any clue to the name of Bear McCreary's (BSG's composer) song names on this episode? Namely the one playing during the battle scenes and when Adama kisses Roslin.
elly took care of the Adama/Roslin song title, and the song played when Pegasus and Galactica battle the cylon ship is called "Resurrection Ship."

Those two and a few others were available online as mp3s but were later pulled at Mr. McCreary's request. They will be on the season 2 OST to be released in July. :)

Matt G
March 27th, 2006, 02:03 PM
OK...caught the two parter on Saturday.

1. Definately liked the counter plots.

2. Cain is a sly witch with a b, I'll give her that much.

3. Frack knows where Baltar's head is at.

4. Good to see the Pegasus didn't get toasted.

Overall, grade A Galactica.

Mamid
April 1st, 2006, 10:05 PM
Go 6! Go 6! Go 6! Go 6! Go 6! Go 6! Go 6! Go 6!

That was sweet! So sweet.

It finally aired in Canada today. Just watching the repeat now.

Can't wait till the next one!

llee
May 19th, 2006, 05:34 PM
Is only part of season II on DVD? I just started watching Battlestar and the DVD within Netflix ended with Pegasus.

takinspace
August 30th, 2006, 02:49 PM
I just rewatched this episode and the battle between the Battlestars and the Cylon Basestars is the most amazing thing I have ever seen... I need a fricking bigger TV set.

Ok that's all. :)

Aussie_86
September 12th, 2006, 05:55 PM
just bought the season 2 DVD set in Australia, and have a very, very, very big TV... (1.3 metres diagonal, whatever that is in inches) hehe. was very, very, very good

Cam_Mitchell
September 16th, 2006, 11:28 AM
Goood Episode, see the blackbird did come in handy

--Gaz--

SoulReaver
October 16th, 2006, 08:25 PM
ok i'm in england and just seen it, and i felt sorry for Cain in the end, but she got what she deserved, but i feel sorry for her, and also well done Admiral Adama.yeah Cain got what she deserved, and I felt sorry for the bullet (u know, tainted with all that poisonous blood -)

The only thing wrong with that execution is that it was way too quick

Legionnaire
October 17th, 2006, 09:55 AM
Nah, Cain went out in style and with fightin words: FRAK YOU. I bet she ate babies.

SoulReaver
October 17th, 2006, 01:20 PM
But she also went out in tears. (Almost) like a baby http://img.presence-pc.com/forum/images/perso/kryten.gif

MB.Eddie
November 10th, 2006, 09:48 AM
Good ep.

Those marines trying to torture Helo and the Chief was wrong imo. They all are fleet, not Cylons...

I like when the Admiral told Starbuck not to flinch when the time came, as if she expected something would happen.

Awesome battle scenes. Hmm. I wasnt sure that a BattleStar could beat a BaseStar 1v1, and im even less sure about a 2v2, but it was good to see. Nice work killing the Ressurection Ship. Theres some payback.

Got to feel for Apollo giving up hope like that. Hope he improves. To bad he destroyed the Blackbird. Hopefully they build another.

It was good that both Adama and the Admiral came to their senses in the end, and didnt have one another killed. Six getting its revenge was ok. Will be interesting too see who commands the Pegasus now too. And Admiral Adama now. How cool :cool:

neurophobic_and_perfect
February 2nd, 2007, 01:04 PM
Just seen it on DVD and loved it.

Is it just me or do people feal really sorry for that beat up cylon woman; I know she represents a race of things hell bent on destroying humanity but they took it a little far.

Felt sorry for the pilot and the chief - even though thier minds were all frakked up by boomer it really was cowerdice.

Loved seeing Adama finaly kissing Roslin - that has been on the way since Caprica.

Starbuck was great in the way she kept a strait face during the whole "don't flinch" speach. Her speach was pretty awsome too.

Shame about the blackbird.

9/10 :)

jadeloves_ADAMA_ROSLIN
March 17th, 2007, 01:04 PM
i just re-watched it with my friend, and i didnt realize until now that apollo was flying the blackbird..

that does suck.

Highpoints:

cain dead

battle between basestars vs. battlestars

laura/adama kiss

admiral promotion (to)

billy and kat being ALIVE

donniepw
June 18th, 2007, 12:35 PM
I just rewatched this episode the other day. I realized this is the episode that for me started my increasing dislike of Kara Thrace. For me I haven't really liked her character since season two.

I believe it started with seaon one with KLG part one when she betrays Adama to go along with Roslyn's request to retireve the Arrow. I begrudgingly forgave that cuase that all turned out okay. But her little insinuation about Adama second guessing and "flinching" was out of line I felt. And what would Cain have done? Gut the civilian fleet and abandon them as soon as they were no longer useful? Oh yeah she already did that.

Integrabyte
December 13th, 2007, 06:58 AM
I'm new to this whole BSG so here goes. I've sat in my room with my DVDs and saw S1 and stopped at this episode. Okay, I have to admit, I saw RAZOR by accident. Cain grew up on me so, you imagine the horror, the tears, the broken glasses when they killed her :(. Why, why, why? :(:(:(

Ouroboros
December 13th, 2007, 08:29 AM
I'm new to this whole BSG so here goes. I've sat in my room with my DVDs and saw S1 and stopped at this episode. Okay, I have to admit, I saw RAZOR by accident. Cain grew up on me so, you imagine the horror, the tears, the broken glasses when they killed her :(. Why, why, why? :(:(:(

Don't watch the razor extended edition. It has extra background material on her that will only make her seem more interesting and leave more unresolved issues.

Even the creators regreted offing Cain after the fact apparently. It was likely no small part of the reason why Razor even happened at all.

Integrabyte
December 13th, 2007, 08:41 AM
Don't watch the razor extended edition. It has extra background material on her that will only make her seem more interesting and leave more unresolved issues.

Even the creators regreted offing Cain after the fact apparently. It was likely no small part of the reason why Razor even happened at all.

Well that is what I saw :P. That is why I like her so much. Sorry for not being specific, I thought there is only one version :D. She had me hooked and I really don't understand why they offed her because they were trying to find a common ground :(. Shaw was cool too :)

Ouroboros
December 13th, 2007, 11:02 AM
Well that is what I saw :P. That is why I like her so much. Sorry for not being specific, I thought there is only one version :D. She had me hooked and I really don't understand why they offed her because they were trying to find a common ground :(. Shaw was cool too :)

From what I remember they had decided already that the character was going to die at the end of res ship 2 before they even really got into writing the whole arc. Then when it was finished and seeing how good everything turned out with Forbes and just how well it all came together it was kinda like a "well..... ****" moment.

Basically Cain exceeded expectations of what was originally only supposed to be a more or less short time guest character like Fisk.

I think keeping her around until "Exodus" would have been the way to go. Have plenty of time to explore her background and the background of pegasus, then give her the same sort of out as the original series Cain. Have her and her crew take Lee's place in Exodus and go out blazing with their ship in one last final act to try and balance their past sins by saving the human race.

Of course with that and the Adama maneuver in the same episode the sheer awesome might have reached dangerously toxic levels.

Integrabyte
December 13th, 2007, 03:10 PM
I think keeping her around until "Exodus" would have been the way to go. Have plenty of time to explore her background and the background of pegasus, then give her the same sort of out as the original series Cain. Have her and her crew take Lee's place in Exodus and go out blazing with their ship in one last final act to try and balance their past sins by saving the human race.

I think RAZOR answers most of the questions we all had concerning her. It is obvious that in a way I had a perfect approach for her, saw Razor extended and then BSG S2, so I knew what she was on about when she described Adama what she's been through.



Basically Cain exceeded expectations of what was originally only supposed to be a more or less short time guest character like Fisk.

A good script and an amazing performance like in this episode makes an impression. Was she evil? Did she deserve to die in this episode or in general the way Roslin and Adama said?

Ouroboros
December 13th, 2007, 08:47 PM
I think RAZOR answers most of the questions we all had concerning her. It is obvious that in a way I had a perfect approach for her, saw Razor extended and then BSG S2, so I knew what she was on about when she described Adama what she's been through.

We still never found out about her mysterious back injury though. That kinda sucked.


A good script and an amazing performance like in this episode makes an impression. Was she evil? Did she deserve to die in this episode or in general the way Roslin and Adama said?

Razor made her look a lot more evil than she did before, mainly by showing the utter lack of any especially extenuating circumstances or context to her actions like Adama had wondered about. It did explain her behaviour via the flashback, though if they had set out to use Razor to make her seem more sympathetic they failed in that in my opinion. Razor made her less genuinely sympathetic and more of a pitiable figure who broke when pressure was applied directly to the chink in her armor.

Integrabyte
December 14th, 2007, 02:26 PM
We still never found out about her mysterious back injury though. That kinda sucked.


It is Sci-Fi, who knows, maybe another flashback will portray that ;)




Razor made her look a lot more evil than she did before, mainly by showing the utter lack of any especially extenuating circumstances or context to her actions like Adama had wondered about.

Razor explained everything what happened. Evil? I agree but in case of war, desperate times call for desperate measures. I do believe her part illustrated real life scenarios.



It did explain her behaviour via the flashback, though if they had set out to use Razor to make her seem more sympathetic they failed in that in my opinion. Razor made her less genuinely sympathetic and more of a pitiable figure who broke when pressure was applied directly to the chink in her armor.


I do not think their aim was to make us pity her. They showed the universal law of the universe: "Action and Reaction". In the first Cylon war, she had the first harsh lesson from her father when he told her to run with her sister. The second shock to her comes when she has to hide in order to survive. Seeing these things, seeing she made huge sacrifices, I started to admire her. She wasn't a loose cannon.
Regarding Cain and Exodus, I think two scenarios would have happened:
1. She would have attacked the first time the Cylons arrived.
2. Would have not authorised a rescue mission in order to preserve the human race.


I could be wrong and Razor omitted some aspects about her personality. Maybe there is the 3rd scenario where she joins Adama when he does his fancy move above Tyrol :)

Ishay
April 28th, 2009, 06:33 PM
this was so cool lee had the best seat in the house for this fireworks show :D i will miss cain i really liked her toughness

AresLover452
January 24th, 2010, 11:58 PM
I love this episode simply because Roslin and Adama kiss.... that for me made the episode.

the fifth man
September 15th, 2010, 06:05 PM
Tonight, my wife and I watched this episode. She thought it was really good, especially how Cain got what was coming to her in the end. She thought that the kiss between Adama and Roslin was very sweet, and hopes it was a sign of things to come between the two of them. Sometimes, it is hard for me to not let her in on little spoilers, but I do my best.

Pharaoh Atem
September 16th, 2010, 05:33 PM
Tonight, my wife and I watched this episode. She thought it was really good, especially how Cain got what was coming to her in the end. She thought that the kiss between Adama and Roslin was very sweet, and hopes it was a sign of things to come between the two of them. Sometimes, it is hard for me to not let her in on little spoilers, but I do my best.

1, cain didn't deserve that fate IMO

2, the kiss was done on the spot by eddie. wasn't scripted

the fifth man
September 16th, 2010, 07:05 PM
1, cain didn't deserve that fate IMO

2, the kiss was done on the spot by eddie. wasn't scripted

My wife didn't like her character once she took command of the fleet.

Sp!der
September 25th, 2010, 03:33 AM
This is besides Unfinished Busisness one of my favourite episodes of Galactica, I loved that line from Lee "I didnt want to make it" (or smth like that), its a side from him that we see only once I think, so it came really unexpected for me.

LoneStar1836
September 25th, 2010, 12:02 PM
This is besides Unfinished Busisness one of my favourite episodes of Galactica, I loved that line from Lee "I didnt want to make it" (or smth like that), its a side from him that we see only once I think, so it came really unexpected for me.
One of my favorites as well. The visuals of the battle are so beautiful in this one.

As to Lee yeah that was something kind of unexpected from him but it showed just how bad the situation had gotten that he, of all people, had had enough and in a moment of weakness just gave up.

Professor_S
June 6th, 2011, 07:55 PM
First, I loved the way they opened the episode. It's a device that can be overused in tv (for instance, I didn't like it as much in "Act of Contrition"), but I think it worked well here.

I think Razor colours my impression of Cain over this three-ep arc, but this ep seemed to humanize her a bit, to me. But then again, maybe that's just bleed-through from Razor. I found her and Starbuck's relationship an interesting one. Starbuck's eulogy at the end definitely made me think.

Worthy of survival. This is the main theme of the ep and one of the pervading themes of the show. It's such an important one. It's like I mentioned in the thread for the last ep about the line between protagonist and antagonist - it's this that separates the two: decisions that make one worthy of survival. It's a question that's forever relevant. As far as this ep is concerned, I was so dang relieved when Adama lived up to that standard. I have to say, though, I was surprised when Cain made the same decision - not such a blatant antagonist after all.

Vis-effects. Beyond awesome! That is all. :P

Apollo. His character's turn here was an unexpected one. But an interesting one nevertheless.

:D Final scene!!! I know I do this a lot with these two, but I definitely shed a tear during these scene... So sweet and so heartbreaking. MM and EJO play so well off of each other - it never feels like any interaction is forced or 'acted'. It just feels so organic. EJO rolled with an instinct in this scene and MM responded perfectly. Very beautiful scene.