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GateWorld
January 2nd, 2006, 07:26 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s9/919.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/graphics/919.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">SG-1 SEASON NINE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s9/919.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none"><B>CRUSADE</B></A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 919</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
Vala Mal Doran makes contact with Stargate Command from the Ori home galaxy, and tells the story of her life undercover in a village of followers building the Ori's invasion fleet.

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s9/919.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Skydiver
March 3rd, 2006, 05:51 PM
how better to try and curtail all the extra threads that we then have to merge into this one?

:)

Thus far, it's pretty much half bottle episode with vala telling what's going on in the Ori universe(cheap to make and shoot using the standing sets)...intercut with snippits where they actually show some of what goes on.

it's kinda fun to watch them try and disguise baby in the sgc shots while they accentuate the tummy in the rest.

vala and claudia fans will find tons to enjoy, daniel fans won't since he's mostly absent and the rest....set up for next week.

tune in if you want more details than you'll see in a 'previously on' but if you want 'classic' stargate?, well they do TALK about the round spinny thing.

a little heavy handed 'omg, we have to redeem this character and we have to redeem her fast' vala angst but there's not 'oh wow' moment or real feeling or emotion like we're sure to get in BSG tonight

exciting? not really. but it is a necessary info dump for the 'super big and exciting finale'

freyr's mother
March 3rd, 2006, 05:53 PM
WTF? We gave them a ******* Daedalus class battlecruiser. They better have paid for it!!!!

Seldini
March 3rd, 2006, 05:53 PM
Great episode... its very interesting that the Daedalus-Class is actually the 304, and that the Korelev is going to be a US-made ship. I just don't understand why they didn't just take one of the stargates they got back from Ba'al and told the Russians to go screw themselves. The DHD is gone so neither gate would have been dominant (who knows what would have happened?)

MarshAngel
March 3rd, 2006, 05:54 PM
I actually enjoyed this episode. Vala was more toned down and serious. I like.
I like the tone. The balance was just much better in terms of humor and serious drama.

AGateFan
March 3rd, 2006, 05:55 PM
Can’t wait for Atlantis.

Another stupid useless freaking line, thank god at least Cam called her on it. Maybe they will use Vala as a tool to make us like Cam…. They both are tools…

Well, I was right…. a talking\flashback episode all narrated by a guest character, how exciting.

Oh, good they are going to make her butt of stupid of jokes too… is that all Stargate is now, characters made butts for stupid jokes?
Speaking of which … Great, another freaking stupid grandma quote.

Oh, look this weeks “guest Star of the week”… Michael Ironside.

Well, at least they are making Landry more likeable every week. I say he is the one shining light of all of the new characters. He’s still not Hammond, but sans the stupid jacket I think I like him as General just fine.

And there’s the start of babygate….oye, how does anyone think this is a good idea?
I can’t wait for Atlantis… though the “andromeda babe of the week” makes me sad.

Teal’c is still a star wars fan… yay at least there’s that.
Nice try to sidestep the Christianity quagmire
Thank god for Landy…. I agree, in the words of Ivonova, “I’ll be in the car”….

Russians are going to take back the Stargate with the Chinese?!?! Hahahaha, now that’s funny… just go get a new one from another planet… don’t you have like 20 of them from that Off the Grid ep… ones with DHD’s (which make them priority)… problem solved.

Can we get back to the Russian\Chinese plot please.
Toilet ships of Doooommmmmmm. And they are fully flushable too!!
Its only 9:40?

Landry figures out that the Russians will go with the highest bidder. Yay for him… but I still say just give them their gate back and get yourself a new one.

So every single SG-1 member is wallpaper in this ep, except Daniel who’s not even in it.
Why wouldn’t the prior just destroy it himself? Can destroy entire planets but not one communication device?
That guy looks like the guy from firefly, but he’s not.

Flush….down, down the drain.
Hey, theres DANIEL…
See’ya Mikey.
Wow, we get staff weapons back… at least there’s that… maybe Teal’c will get one.

So we gave the Russians a ship?!? Checkov… dude… we are about to fight a galactic war… maybe a ship would be a bad thing for you, means you have to actually fight.

bet it’s a short lived victory for the Russians

MarineCorp
March 3rd, 2006, 05:57 PM
I saw an asgrad ship in that preview!!! So the Daedalus is a 304!!! So did Landry give the Russians a 304 or the plans to the 304?? Can't wait for the next episode.

shester
March 3rd, 2006, 05:58 PM
Cam in a towel was worth the whole episode.
Sybil

GateMan2000
March 3rd, 2006, 05:59 PM
Wow...This weeks was kind of slow but next weeks looks awesome!

mgehman
March 3rd, 2006, 05:59 PM
I saw an asgrad ship in that preview!!! So the Daedalus is a 304!!! So did Landry give the Russians a 304 or the plans to the 304?? Can't wait for the next episode.
I saw the Asgard too. Unfortunately it also looked like it was going Boom. Not a good sign.

freyr's mother
March 3rd, 2006, 06:00 PM
Wow...This weeks was kind of slow but next weeks looks awesome!

True, it looks like they try to ambush the Ori ships as soon as they exit the supergate.

Vash
March 3rd, 2006, 06:01 PM
I saw an asgrad ship in that preview!!! So the Daedalus is a 304!!! So did Landry give the Russians a 304 or the plans to the 304?? Can't wait for the next episode.a 304

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
March 3rd, 2006, 06:01 PM
Damn was a great episode. i give it a *** 1/2 or a ****.

Camelot looks like sweet ass finale, because the trailer looked sweet.

Good Director Debut for RCC (aka Robert Cooper).

Dani347
March 3rd, 2006, 06:01 PM
Kind of disappointed that we didn't get to see more of MS acting like Vala. I thought maybe Colonel Chekov (? Is that his name?) or Ms. Shen would have insisted that Daniel join them, and then hilariousness would insue. But, they probably still would have had CB playing it. But, I don't understand why they had Daniel on the screen. I mean, it let me get a little MS, but it didn't make sense, since everyone could see Vala right there in the room. The screen seemed redundant.

I'm so glad that creepy face was a two second thing. I never would have guessed that the barkeeper (man I suck at names) was really a part of the resistance.

So, is this whole thing with the Russians going somewhere? I hope so, since they brought it up, and it kind of goes back to The Scourge.

Lil Naitch
March 3rd, 2006, 06:05 PM
Interesting ep- loved the Vala/Daniel intro in the beginning with Cam.

Yeah, Val's husband looked like Nathan Fillion...kept throwing me off... cool new staff weapons, though...

Good ep, but all in all, it just wets my appetite fro next week, with the big-ass space battle.

Oh, and Teal'c line about Anakin- priceless.

MarineCorp
March 3rd, 2006, 06:06 PM
I saw the Asgard too. Unfortunately it also looked like it was going Boom. Not a good sign.

To me it looked like the ori ship was going boom. Hopefully the asgard commited a fleet to the battle rather then thor going off on his own. It looks like we are going to get to see an asgard ship in action this time rather then trading a few shots with a ha'tak.:)

Dani347
March 3rd, 2006, 06:07 PM
Can’t wait for Atlantis.

Another stupid useless freaking line, thank god at least Cam called her on it. Maybe they will use Vala as a tool to make us like Cam…. They both are tools…

What line?


Nice try to sidestep the Christianity quagmire

I'm fine with them doing that. More than fine.


Why wouldn’t the prior just destroy it himself? Can destroy entire planets but not one communication device?

Good question.

keppiezbt
March 3rd, 2006, 06:07 PM
summary?

kymeric
March 3rd, 2006, 06:08 PM
I was impressed by the ending
s
p
o
i
l
e
r
s
p
a
c
e

The ENTIRE galaxy is looking for the supergate. The Jaffa nation covers the whole galaxy, plus the tokra, plus the extra galactic Asgard.

This is a definite YIKES enemy.

There is compelling storytelling and then disturbing storytelling. Theyre screwed!!!! :eek:

AGateFan
March 3rd, 2006, 06:11 PM
What line?



The Daniel one ... that I have now locked out of my brain and happily will never, ever hear again... but kudos to Cam for putting a stop to it.

ForeverSg1
March 3rd, 2006, 06:13 PM
Kind of disappointed that we didn't get to see more of MS acting like Vala. I thought maybe Colonel Chekov (? Is that his name?) or Ms. Shen would have insisted that Daniel join them, and then hilariousness would insue. But, they probably still would have had CB playing it. But, I don't understand why they had Daniel on the screen. I mean, it let me get a little MS, but it didn't make sense, since everyone could see Vala right there in the room. The screen seemed redundant.

I'm so glad that creepy face was a two second thing. I never would have guessed that the barkeeper (man I suck at names) was really a part of the resistance.

So, is this whole thing with the Russians going somewhere? I hope so, since they brought it up, and it kind of goes back to The Scourge.

I think the point of showing Daniel on the screen was so that the slower viewers would understand that Vala was not really there. That she was only speaking through Daniel and although we were looking at Vala on screen, the members of SG-1 were really looking at Daniel.

Dani347
March 3rd, 2006, 06:14 PM
The Daniel one ... that I have now locked out of my brain and happily will never, ever hear again... but kudos to Cam for putting a stop to it.


Okay, I'm pretty sure I know which one you mean, but I won't ask for clarification because I don't want to bring back bad memories that you've managed to lock out:D

ForeverSg1:

I think the point of showing Daniel on the screen was so that the slower viewers would understand that Vala was not really there. That she was only speaking through Daniel and although we were looking at Vala on screen, the members of SG-1 were really looking at Daniel.

I don't know. Seems it would be easier to just have MS there, telling the story, with Vala's mannerisms, and then in the scenes on the other planet have CB playing Vala. I mean, if they wanted to show that Vala was in Daniel's body. Because that's what was really going on. The others were seeing Daniel. It would have fit the story and I think the slow viewers would have been able to figure out that MS wasn't playing Daniel if he acted like Vala. But, the screen didn't make any sense from a story pov.

Osiris-RA
March 3rd, 2006, 06:15 PM
...

*as Nero Wolfe* Phooey.

kharn the betrayer
March 3rd, 2006, 06:17 PM
This was better than I thought it would be...and here I was thinking it would be the Daniel and Vala show again XD

well its a bit hard for it to be the D+V show when Vala is possessing him

nice set up for next week....but couldent they have well used a better design for the Ori ships....they look like giant pottys >_<

dhic7g
March 3rd, 2006, 06:19 PM
Can some one post the trailer for Camelot, I missed it.

Daniel's Sister
March 3rd, 2006, 06:23 PM
This was such a cool ep. I was really happy that they brought Vala back. :vala: .
But I do wish that they had allowed Michael Shanks to act a bit more. I think that it would have been hallarious if MS had done... Vala. Of course I don't think that Daniel would have liked that to much :danielanime08: . Of course, I think that Vala would have found it funny :valaanime06: .
And the story~line was awsome. Unfortunitally, it went by way to fast.
Other than that, I loved this ep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You have done your duty well writers :cameron21:.

Bragi
March 3rd, 2006, 06:28 PM
The episode, I felt, was good but a little slow.

The pace and the suspense definately built up near the end. By the last five minutes I was practically standing up screaming "Walter, dial the damn gate already!"

Mio
March 3rd, 2006, 06:28 PM
She said it!


KAWOOSH!
:samanime27:

That so made the episode...

Ok, but all in all, it was a very good episode. That Prior really creeped me out, with the eyes... But I really can't wait to have Vala back...

The Ori soldier's weapons seem much more accurate and deadly than that of the Jaffa....

I'm really looking forward to next week...

NearlyCircular
March 3rd, 2006, 06:28 PM
I liked the toned down Vala and actually found myself wondering what's going to happen to her now. Loved the responses to her question of whether pregnancy without copulation had occured before. "Darth Vader." :tealc: :D


Was it just me or my tv, or did the camera on that last scene in the briefing room look like it was a handheld. It sure seeemed to be bouncing around. Maybe it was an artistic choice by RCC, but it was a little distracting to me.:(



NC

freyr's mother
March 3rd, 2006, 06:34 PM
She said it!


KAWOOSH!
:samanime27:

The Ori soldier's weapons seem much more accurate and deadly than that of the Jaffa....

I'm really looking forward to next week...

At first they didnt even look like they could kill anyone. They only looked like farmers with pitchforks. Boy was i wrong.

Milleniumlance
March 3rd, 2006, 06:43 PM
The Ori ships look like they fire a mega beam cannon...its the friggin APOCALYPES!!!!!!!!!

ToasterOnFire
March 3rd, 2006, 06:47 PM
Best episode of the season by far. Which is both good and bad – good because it was a good ep, obviously, and bad because if the writers/directors/etc. can make a great episode like this why can’t they do this all the time??!! Episodes like this only make the mediocre ones even more apparent.

Thank the gods they toned down Vala. I was so sick of her brashness, immaturity, and constant references to sex that I had all but given up on her character. In this ep she was calm, smart, funny without being irritating, and acted like, gasp, an adult. While I don’t think the wild and crazy Vala is gone for good (bummer) I think I might be able to tolerate her in the future, if her character can survive the season ten spoilers. :S

Did they change the Ori toilet bowl ship design? It looks different from the initial design pics, which is more than fine with me. Hallowed are the scrubbing bubbles. :D
Along those lines, I must say I don’t care for the Ori warrior’s staff weapon. I assume that it’s an offshoot of the Prior staff or something, but it’s way to close to the Goa’uld staff weapon for my personal tastes.

Too bad there was hardly any Daniel. I imagine TPTB were trying to make up for the Daniel/Vala mess in the beginning of the season and decided to spend some more time with Mitch/Vala, Sam/Vala, and even Teal’c/Vala.

Nice to see some progression in the Russian/Chinese gate storyline. Poor Chekov though, I’m almost positive that he’s going to go down with his ship…


Things that made me happy because they didn’t happen:

-Vala didn’t make obnoxious sex jokes (I’ll overlook the pants comment for AGateFan’s sake :D) or was otherwise immature.

-We didn’t have a potential senate committee hearing redux by forcing Vala/Daniel to meet with the Russian and Chinese delegates.

-The child is not miraculously Daniel’s – no Daniel/Vala ship for me, thank you very much.

-Vala and Sam didn’t get into some hissy catfight like some fans were hoping… :rolleyes:

-Mitch acted like an adult and less like a college kid, “butthead” comment notwithstanding. (Who on earth beyond the high school level says “butthead” anyway? :S)


Overall, I liked the story, thought the direction was good, and liked the buildup of tension throughout the ep. The new characters were interesting and the actors didn’t overdo it. All in all a decent buildup to the season finale.

JUNIOR
March 3rd, 2006, 06:48 PM
This was a great episode I liked the way that Vala was toned done in this episode (even though I really wasn't bothered by her in episode 1-6). She showed me, as a viewer, more of her serious side and more endearing qualities of her character. I also liked how the Chinese thought that they had a leg up in offering to back a Russian SG program, but all the Russians really wanted was a BC-304 (sticking with the devil that they know, at least for now). I just hope we see some actual hand to hand combat between the Ori warriors and the SG teams/Jaffa next episode or in the beginning of season 10. I would like to see a battle scene on Chulaek where they would get off their ships to invade the plaent only to be welcomed with grenades (Tauri/shock), and missile launchers along with some Tauri and staff fire. I think if those staffs are the only weapon the Ori warriors have then they shouldn't pose as much of a threat as they probably could if they had Prior power (although the anti-Ori leader was killed pretty easily with that thing). Another thing I'd also would like to see how they fair against Tauri weapons and are they as bad a shot as the Jaffa.

ussrelativity
March 3rd, 2006, 06:55 PM
Camelot trailer, anyone?

warmbeachbrat
March 3rd, 2006, 07:30 PM
I don't know. Seems it would be easier to just have MS there, telling the story, with Vala's mannerisms, and then in the scenes on the other planet have CB playing Vala. I mean, if they wanted to show that Vala was in Daniel's body. Because that's what was really going on. The others were seeing Daniel. It would have fit the story and I think the slow viewers would have been able to figure out that MS wasn't playing Daniel if he acted like Vala. But, the screen didn't make any sense from a story pov.

Wasn't it a video camera? I thought they were recording her (his?) testimony and the glimpses of the screen showed what was actually being recorded.

the fifth man
March 3rd, 2006, 08:04 PM
I thought this episode was really good. Vala, while she came on a little heavy early on, really was great in this ep. I think we can expect good things from her character next season.:) And yay, at least now we know those Ori warriors carry some form of energy staff weapon for sure. I hope her "husband" survives a bit on the show. It would be cool to see her have to fight against him. All in all, this one really got me pumped up for next week's finale. I can't wait to see what "Camelot" has in store. Rock on, season 9!:D

Dani347
March 3rd, 2006, 08:11 PM
Wasn't it a video camera? I thought they were recording her (his?) testimony and the glimpses of the screen showed what was actually being recorded.

Hmm, I never thought of it being a video camera. But, do they usually videotape people?

yowo
March 3rd, 2006, 08:13 PM
I didn’t hate it like I thought I would.:eek:
At least all of our old friends were still there. :sam: Amanda, :tealc: Christopher and :daniel: Michael made it still feel like Stargate (almost). They were wonderful!
I was really dreading the return of Vala, but she was different this time. More like a believable person. Plus her presence didn’t make :sam: Sam less important and that is something I have been afraid of. Sam is what makes Stargate special to me. I know they had to get all the back-story out of the way this week. We will see if it becomes the Vala show.:( I don’t want to see that happen.
I liked the fact that Vala showed some emotion for the man she is married too and wasn’t just trying to use him. And the fact that the team felt sorry for her was touching.
Maybe there is still hope we will see.

sharkface217
March 3rd, 2006, 08:17 PM
I thought this episode was really good. Vala, while she came on a little heavy early on, really was great in this ep. I think we can expect good things from her character next season.:) And yay, at least now we know those Ori warriors carry some form of energy staff weapon for sure. I hope her "husband" survives a bit on the show. It would be cool to see her have to fight against him. All in all, this one really got me pumped up for next week's finale. I can't wait to see what "Camelot" has in store. Rock on, season 9!:D


The fact that made this episode priceless was the "Darth Vader" comment by Teal'c. Seriously, that sealed the episode right there.

As for the whole thing overall, the last 5-10 minutes make up for everything else. I really never suspected the Ori Warriors having energy weapons (instead just using shear numbers to overwhelm foes, or to have the peasants charge and then have the Ori Priors in the back launching artillary, bugs, etc.).

Really, I can't wait until next weeks. Hopefully Chekov won't die.

MasySyma
March 3rd, 2006, 08:18 PM
Wow. Another great episode. It set up next week well, and it connected the entire Season 9 arc together beautifully.

The new toned-down but still feisty Vala was perfect. The character was not over the top but could still appreciate Cameron in a towel. :vala:

She seemed to genuinely care for her husband, and all of her choices were understandable given her circumstances. The baby plot appears interesting, and I'm excited to see more of Vala in the coming season.

I did miss Daniel, but we'll see more of him next week and in subsequent episodes I'm sure, so he deserves a week off. However, I, too, would have loved a few minutes of Daniel in Vala's world. Then again, perhaps whoever is using the device merely controls the body. It doesn't appear to be a two-way type of communication.

The Teal'c line about Anakin Skywalker was priceless. :tealc39:

My only complaint is that the writers made a tiny mistake with the Arthurian literature. Yes, Merlin enchanted Ingraine to believe that Uther was her husband, and she conceived Arthur; however, she did so the traditional way people create children and not in the way that Vala described. Vala's description fits the conception of Merlin described in the version of the story as told by Geoffrey of Monmouth. Merlin is half-human and half incubus in the story. If we assume that incubi are possible acended beings . . . This tie would have worked better for me.

However, that is a minor glitch. I do wish that the Russian general would get blown up with his ship, but only because I find his character annoyingly scheming, convicing, and useless. The other diplomats are not nearly as problematic. We're about to go to war, and we have to give up a powerful ship to a whiner who doesn't appear to be helping us fight the Ori. I wouldn't mind the alliance if we seemed to be gaining something from it because I agree with Laudry: We'd never give the gate back anyway.

Overall, it was a great episode, and one of the season's best. I look forward to next week. 9.5/10

the fifth man
March 3rd, 2006, 08:18 PM
Maybe there is still hope we will see.

Now that's the spirit!:)

Dani347
March 3rd, 2006, 08:37 PM
I did miss Daniel, but we'll see more of him next week and in subsequent episodes I'm sure, so he deserves a week off.

Well, I'm sure that wasn't a consideration, but I wonder if it was a scheduling thing that MS only had time to do a little bit of work on the episode.





My only complaint is that the writers made a tiny mistake with the Arthurian literature. Yes, Merlin enchanted Ingraine to believe that Uther was her husband, and she conceived Arthur; however, she did so the traditional way people create children and not in the way that Vala described. Vala's description fits the conception of Merlin described in the version of the story as told by Geoffrey of Monmouth. Merlin is half-human and half incubus in the story. If we assume that incubi are possible acended beings . . . This tie would have worked better for me.

That's true. I'm no expert on Arthurian legend, but I know that Igraine (I love that name, btw) did they deed because I saw the miniseries Merlin:p Didn't know the Merlin part, though.


I did find this episode very talky. It seemed like it was a lot of talk to set up two, possibly three points that will later play out. 1. Vala is pregnant. 2. The Ori have a supergate. 3. (Maybe) This deal with the Russians. That's a maybe because that might not really go anywhere.

warmbeachbrat
March 3rd, 2006, 08:38 PM
Hmm, I never thought of it being a video camera. But, do they usually videotape people?

I'm not sure if they usually do, but in this case it made a lot of sense. They couldn't know if Daniel would know what Vala was saying or remember it when he came back and they had no way of knowing what was happening on his end. Recording Vala's statement at least would have it on record after she left, especially if anything happened. They can refer back to it or watch it later if they need to. If they had just listened to her instead of recording it, they might miss something important in their recollections later.

Unorthodox
March 3rd, 2006, 08:39 PM
Well, in regards to this episode, I liked how serious it was and how it brings into focus the impending Orii threat. And OMG at the Camelot preview.

Has anyone played any of the Homeworld games? The Orii ships look quite similair (beam cannon at the front, oval shape), but I can't wait to see what we'll pull out to meet them. Too bad I think we'll get our butts handed to us in this round, since A) Orii technology = Ancient technology, B) how long have the Asguard had to build a fleet for a menace like this? And C) we don't have nearly enough ships for this kinda assault. Maybe if we could beam some nukes inside the sheilding (like when the Daedalus arrived at Atlantis) of the Orii ships, we might be able to take them down. But from what little anyone can gather from the preivews...well, I'd say five Orii ships could smack us around like flies. Not without losses, I hope...but still. Lots of space-smacking all around.

P.S. This be my first post in the forums. Yay me!

vandred
March 3rd, 2006, 08:40 PM
i love the episode but i mostly loved the sneek peak for next weeks finale,
SPOILERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR I THINKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK FROM THE SNEEK PEEK AT SLOW MOTION OK SO YEA READDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL



i had it on tivo so after i finished watching it i watched it again all the way to the end and i saw it in slow motion so i have spoilers in a way lol
OK i saw 2 earth ships i know its the oddyssey and the korelev, so thats all earth ships and also like 6 hatack motherships and i only saw one asgard ship but the newest ones the onneil i belive is the newest. And i think it was yea 5 ori buckets and they can shoot the beam just like the one in tagalus with the satelite but much bigger. ANd it goes rite through the hatak shield and its destroyed and it looks like the asgard shields are really strong because it shoots it more than once by all 5 ori ships and it still goes on and it doesnt go through and the asgard destroy one ori ship, so that blast u see for a mere second is an ori ship and thats all i saw hmm yea.

ShardsofGlass
March 3rd, 2006, 08:41 PM
Wow, that was pretty boring. A whole ep of someone telling a story that's not all that interesting was, well, not that interesting. It was nice to see Claudia again, and she had some funny moments as Vala, but I was sooo tired of hearing her narration by the end of the ep.

Landry and Chekov were thankfully in a couple of very short scenes because I just don't find these scenes with the Russians believable. I keep thinking of how the West Wing does it, and things are sooo much more realistic there.

This looked like an ep to give the actors (except Claudia) a rest and to save money. I just wish they had come up with a better way to tell this story than the static method of having Vala sit at a table and tell it to the rest of the team.

My favorite part is Vala in Daniel's body checking out Mitchell in a towel. :)

Dana_Jeanne
March 3rd, 2006, 08:42 PM
It was an okay episode, a little slow for me. The bits at the beginning in the men's locker room when we see Daniel as Vala (or is is Vala as Daniel?) in the mirror were hilarious.

MItchell was good---no stupid frat boy jokes. Butthead? Please, this is a grown man, keep the 8-year-old's stuff out of his mouth.

I liked Vala-- more toned down. Still fiesty, but not OTT like the beginning of the season.

Okay, but boring. If it's on and I have nothing else to do I would watch it again, but I wouldn't search it out.

On a strictly female note: Claudia Black carried her pregnancy beautifully.

Dana Jeanne

mi4si
March 3rd, 2006, 08:43 PM
decently interesting episode, but bring on the finale.......

NotAscended
March 3rd, 2006, 09:17 PM
Nice set up for the finale. Loved the fact that at the end the Tok'ra, Asgard, Tauri, and Jaffa were all working together to find the supergate. After watching all those alliances weaken throughout the season, it's so cool that all are working together. Can't wait for next week!

esoap524
March 3rd, 2006, 09:28 PM
This was better than I thought it would be...and here I was thinking it would be the Daniel and Vala show again XD

well its a bit hard for it to be the D+V show when Vala is possessing him

nice set up for next week....but couldent they have well used a better design for the Ori ships....they look like giant pottys >_<

I agree--much better than I anticipated. It was really the Vala-guy she married show. That story really hooked me (I guess I'm really a soap opera fan at heart).

I also liked the team's skepticism at Vala's story, and their theories of the pregnancy without the "other bits" or whatever it was that Vala termed it. Funny that they left out one of the better known "I know not man" births in history. But...whatever.

The opening scene was hilarious. I also like Vala's comment about being in Daniel's pants and Mitchell saying that he (Daniel) couldn't defend himself.


[QUOTE=Dana_Jeanne

MItchell was good---no stupid frat boy jokes. Butthead? Please, this is a grown man, keep the 8-year-old's stuff out of his mouth.

I liked Vala-- more toned down. Still fiesty, but not OTT like the beginning of the season.

Okay, but boring. If it's on and I have nothing else to do I would watch it again, but I wouldn't search it out.

On a strictly female note: Claudia Black carried her pregnancy beautifully.

Dana Jeanne
[/QUOTE]
Mitchell was good. "butthead" is a phrase I use often, and I'm as old as Mitchell ;) It's better than a&%$...etc, etc

I liked Vala too, especially when she lays it on thick for Tomin in the end, convincing him that she was "forced" to go along with the resistance. Nice to see that she hadn't changed significantly but was still toned down.

Yep, girlie but true. CB does the pregnancy thing well :)

wizelf
March 3rd, 2006, 09:33 PM
This was a very cool show. Vala was mild in here! The intro scene with her going to the bathroom was too damn funny.

Dream-a-Little
March 3rd, 2006, 09:34 PM
The opening tease with Vala as Daniel checking out towel clad Mitchell was absolutely priceless! :D As was Mitchell's reaction to being checked out by "Daniel". :D Too funny for words! :D

The rest of the episode was basically just an exposition dump setting up next week’s episode. A pleasant exposition dump, but an exposition dump nonetheless. Can't quite figure out why chaining Vala up for 3 days without food or water proved that they could trust her. :confused: Maybe they just needed to stretch it a bit. ;)

Next weeks episode however looks like fun! :cameron: :sam: :daniel: :tealc:

cafine_us
March 3rd, 2006, 09:42 PM
I think by torturing Vala with no food or water the rebels were testing to see if she could keep secrets under pressure. They wanted to be sure she wouldn't spill the beans before they told her the details of the plan.

I loved Vala in this episode. She still had hints of innuendo, but she was toned down beautifully. She was a very sympathetic character, and I am truly interested to see what happens to her in season 10.

Bobthespirit
March 3rd, 2006, 09:42 PM
This might be the first episode all year that I consider worth even spending an hour viewing it.

No, that's wrong. It's the second or third. But, I really liked the way the story was told. It brings a human element to the other side, one that was almost completely absent in the pryors.

sindicate
March 3rd, 2006, 09:48 PM
Seemed like a filler episode to me, which in a way it was, i almost fell asleep lol good thing I have it on the Dvr

Red Tigress
March 3rd, 2006, 10:13 PM
By far, the best part of this episode was Teal'c Darth Vader comment...although I thought Cameron whipping out the Authurian Legend knowledge was a little fruity. Silly me, and I thought he was going to say Jesus. Or Aaron from LOST.

I guess the next episode will make up for the serious lack of action in this one. Although it was cool seeing things from Vala's POV.:vala:

majorsal
March 3rd, 2006, 10:21 PM
i watched it.

*greatly* relieved to see a toned down vala! ;)

where was daniel/michael in this ep? or really, 'what' was michael shanks doing that he was barely in this ep?

not enough other characters (like sg1).

michael ironside is 'always' good.

robert cooper did a good job in the writing/directing department. the *only* quibble i can make is when vala was talking about her hubby being sweet and such, and then the camera came back to vala and she was tearing up. i didn't 'feel' it. and i didn't feel the others reactions to it. i felt the direction in that scene was amateurish. (i really didn't like the close ups on sam, teal'c, and mitchell) but that's the only part i had probs with, and it was just looking at it from a directing angle.

now, for the story. it was slow, but interesting enough. lots of set up for the season finale.

what i feel the most, though, is tremendous relief that vala was toned down. why? because if she's going to be on the entire of season 10... at least i know she's not going to be taking over. (i'll trade off mitchell being class clown to vala anyday).

vala's writing in tonight's ep gave me hope. and alleviated some of my fears about season 10. (now i just need to 'find' some interest for season 10 :S )





sally :)

majorsal
March 3rd, 2006, 10:29 PM
The new toned-down but still feisty Vala was perfect. The character was not over the top but could still appreciate Cameron in a towel. :vala:




yes, i wasn't bothered by vala's 'antics' in this ep at all (because it was classy, not brassy).




sally :)


ps - i'm sure the slashers had a ball (excuse the pun) with the opening scene. :p

Dani347
March 3rd, 2006, 10:35 PM
So, I'm guessing that the person whose body is being used by the communication device doesn't realise what's going on at the time. Because Daniel had to ask how he got there. So, I'm guessing the person goes into a kind of unconsiousness? Harrid and Sallis must not have had any idea that Daniel and Vala were in their bodies in Avalon and when they woke up, chained and about to be burned to death, they must not have known how they got there.

Ziu
March 3rd, 2006, 10:38 PM
Nice episode, especially the build-up for the season finale.

FerCryinOutLoud!
March 3rd, 2006, 11:15 PM
This episode was great and i didn't mind there was little to no action. Story telling at it's finest. (well probably not, but it was still really good)

We know more about the Ori and it makes them more interesting in my opinion.

I thought the Ori warriors looked really awesome. I'm glad their not zombies like the Sodan jaffa guy. I think the Ori warrior staff weapon was sort of cool, but not very original. (no pun intended) I mean we have jaffa staffs, why do we need Ori staffs? I have a feeling the swords they carry have an energy aspect to them, not quite like a lightsaber but still an energy something or another to their function.

The Teal'c Darth Vader quote was hilarious.

Vala was a gem and season ten is looking mighty juicy.

I wonder if Ba'al will help fight against the Ori?

I'm glad they're giving the different priors a sense of individuality so they don't all look alike. Hence the prior with the missing eye.

Bring on the season finale? I think so!

I know it probably won't happen but i have a nagging feeling that Mitchel might die in the season finale. I know i'm probably crazy and i know it won't happen, i still have a slight feeling though. I hope not, i like Mitchel when he's not being immature.

tony
March 3rd, 2006, 11:19 PM
the finale is going to be so unreal amazing OMG...just seeing earth ships, FJN ships, and asgard ships together within grabing distance of eachother is ABSOLUTLY AWESOME! ! ! !

Vili
March 3rd, 2006, 11:31 PM
A couple of things i saw in the preview made me wonder about the Ori Tactics.


They said that were building 10 ships near the village that Vala was in, with many villages doing the same. I thought Vala also said that the same thing was happening on other planets. Meaning that they probably have alot of ships.

In the preview for next weeks episode it looked like they had 5 Ori ships come through the supergate. Were are all the other ships? I am wondering if the Ori have made more than one supergate, and they sent these 5 ships through as a diversion, while the main invasion fleet comes through other supergates elsewere, but only after we have engaged the token force at this gate.

Dani347
March 3rd, 2006, 11:34 PM
I know it probably won't happen but i have a nagging feeling that Mitchel might die in the season finale. I know i'm probably crazy and i know it won't happen, i still have a slight feeling though. I hope not, i like Mitchel when he's not being immature.

Rest assured it won't happen. Unless he dies in the Daniel way and comes back. You don't kill off your lead character just to do it.

metroid
March 4th, 2006, 12:08 AM
This episode was awesome.

I do think they shouldn't have gone with the Ori staff because it's way too close to the Jaffa staff weapons.

and the Teal'c Darth Vader comment, he was actually about to explain what happened to him. Priceless!

kazzyk
March 4th, 2006, 02:35 AM
The good thing about this episode--we are spared the rambo-hyper-active Cam.

I dont like the Ori story line at all--the whole thing is ripped from todays top news.
Religious war--Chinas growing dominance etc....

Did not miss the long look between CB and BB--as if to say "together again" ugggg.

macktheknife
March 4th, 2006, 04:27 AM
I love that "Darth Vader" line. Awesome.

Formerhost
March 4th, 2006, 04:32 AM
Watching Crusade I realized how much I missed Rob Cooper's writing, he definitely is the best writer of the entire writers' team, wonderful script, wonderful story and great way of telling it, of course due to Claudia's acting. She's just phenomenal. Vala in Crusade is partly our "old" Vala, but mostly much more serious, toned down Vala which I love very much. And I must admit I just adore Tomin despite him being fanatical Ori follower and I'm glad we'll see more of him next season. But I'm afraid it's gonna end in tears... :( :S

macktheknife
March 4th, 2006, 04:46 AM
Any woman involved in anti-ori resistance is a hotteh, the girl vala took over in the first ep was hot, and now the one from today.

Too bad they both got the chop.

Re: Homeworld, quite funny really, especialy after the episode with baal (2 or 3 eps ago), the guy who voiced "Fleet Command" in Homeworld 1 was on baals ship, and said a few lines that were identical to lines from Homeworld.

Deejay435
March 4th, 2006, 06:21 AM
I don't know. Seems it would be easier to just have MS there, telling the story, with Vala's mannerisms, and then in the scenes on the other planet have CB playing Vala. I mean, if they wanted to show that Vala was in Daniel's body. Because that's what was really going on. The others were seeing Daniel. It would have fit the story and I think the slow viewers would have been able to figure out that MS wasn't playing Daniel if he acted like Vala. But, the screen didn't make any sense from a story pov.

Yeah, it would have been easier, and would have made sense. But with CB being tptb's new toy, they were never going to go that way. Makes me very leery for Season 10. This would have been an excellent episode for MS, certainly fun to watch him act like Vala. But he was slapped on the wallpaper in favor of all Vala, all the time.

Bah.

Arative
March 4th, 2006, 07:04 AM
Good episode! I liked Vala earlier in the season but even more now that they toned her down. If she is like this next season, she'll make a fine addition to the show.

Was nice to see the daily life in the Ori followers village.

Erin
March 4th, 2006, 07:07 AM
Great episode!!! I loved the Darth Vader line. Claudia Black's acting was so good. She can be serious!

I'm kinda glad they didn't have Daniel talking with Vala's mannerisms. True, it would have been funny, but what Vala was saying was not funny. I think it was a good idea to have some Daniel talking as Vala, but definitely not the serious scenes. The only thing I wish we had seen him say something like I'm pregnant... that would have been funny. But I think I would have been laughing way too much at Daniel as Vala that I wouldn't be getting the drama of the storyline.

CalmStorm
March 4th, 2006, 07:12 AM
I loved this episode! It's been awhile since I have been totally captivated and reeled into SG-1, but this episode did just that. Wonderful job! The whole cast just did a wonderful job.

Have to say that I loved the opening scene with Daniel/Vala going into the guys locker room and staring at Mitchell. Loved the Darth Vader comment from Teal'c and was suprised by Mitchell saying Merlin in his example. I also really loved Sam's role as well. There seems to be a more light-hearted nature to her character this year and it's great to watch develop. Also loved Vala's role too and am now looking really forward to her continued involvement in the show. I love the humor she brings.

Zoser
March 4th, 2006, 07:39 AM
While I didn't hate this episode. It did seem like a pseudo clip show - mostly exposition.

They are even recycling names - Tomin. It is the same as the boy whom Teal'c befriended in 'The Learning Curve'.

Formerhost
March 4th, 2006, 07:42 AM
While I didn't hate this episode. It did seem like a pseudo clip show - mostly exposition.

They are even recycling names - Tomin. It is the same as the boy whom Teal'c befriended in 'The Learning Curve'.

So what? How many people you know have the same first name as you?

Lt. Colonel Ryu Gaia
March 4th, 2006, 07:44 AM
The Daniel one ... that I have now locked out of my brain and happily will never, ever hear again... but kudos to Cam for putting a stop to it.
You mean the... "Funny, Daniel was always trying to get in my pants and now I'm in his," line?

Okay episode. I wanted to see the Ori ships more, and more Ori weapons being fired. Vala should have been toned down a bit more, and Seevis wasn't well-articulated in terms of character.
We should have had more on the IoA thing, because that was good and could have been developed into a better story.
The ending of the episode was great.

Overall: ***

Mackan
March 4th, 2006, 08:06 AM
The writers said they loved Vala, so I am pretty sure we will get a few of these jokes/sexjokes in every episode in season 10 as well.

Heaven
March 4th, 2006, 08:19 AM
This was by far the best episode of season 9
(and just for the record this comes from an anti-s9er)
I never thought I'd say this about a s9 episode but this one truly deserves it
GREAT episode!
excellent writing (with the small exception of the russia deal and the ending scene)
and above all outstanding performance by CB
I'm starting to have a good feeling about next season with CB returning
the last couple of episodes were actually quite alright
let's hope TPTB can keep that up

Seastallion
March 4th, 2006, 08:34 AM
This was a good episode, and it really has me psyched for the season finale...! :D The preview for next week was great..! It looked like a Tau'ri/Jaffa/Asgard vs. Ori free for all..! :thoranime09:

Fatewarns
March 4th, 2006, 08:42 AM
Tomin is a great character the actor who plays him was great.

Tim Guinee play a killer that was kind yet brutal, in Law & Order episode Hubris his character was Mark Landry/Richard Morriston. He was great in it.

Tomin I feel a pity for him, but at the same time I see that he would do anything for the Ori.

yeah I agree the Ori staff weapon is basically the same to Jaffa staff weapon, but the Ori staff weapon has a pitcher on the tip which I think would be useful for close hand to hand fighting.

SierraGulf1
March 4th, 2006, 08:43 AM
Great episode.

I think it's better that they showed Claudia Black instead of Michael Shanks on camera. MS is a great actor, and I would have loved to see him, but I like the continuity with the fact that when Vala and Daniel were inside Harrid and Salas we saw them as Daniel and Vala, except in mirrors, etc.

Dani347
March 4th, 2006, 09:05 AM
Yeah, it would have been easier, and would have made sense. But with CB being tptb's new toy, they were never going to go that way. Makes me very leery for Season 10. This would have been an excellent episode for MS, certainly fun to watch him act like Vala. But he was slapped on the wallpaper in favor of all Vala, all the time.

Bah.

Except they could just as easily have had him in the beginning scene with Mitchell for the joke and to establish that she was in Daniel, and then not show any of him until the end when she was gone and Daniel was back. Or, they could have written some other way for Vala to communicate what happened without making her inhabit Daniel's body and he could have just been with the rest of SG1. Even if they were making it a showcase for CB (and this episode was 99% Vala), I can't see why they would want to wallpaper MS more than the other actors, who weren't exactly taking up gobs of screentime themselves. MS has gotten some nice stuff to work with this season (and no denying in the first half, which was full of Vala) and also in the second half (although I think we might disagree here), and it seems he's going to be active in the next episode, so it doesn't seem like they have some desire to wallpaper him.

tsaxlady
March 4th, 2006, 09:15 AM
Well Crusade was this seasons version of a clip show. Lots of information but a slow moving and at times boring episode. I will admit it was a little better than I thought it would be but that is mainly because they have toned down Vala some.

Daniel's_twin
March 4th, 2006, 09:18 AM
What an episode. From Vala's glories in the men's locker room to Sg-1 about to search for Merlin's weapon, this was phenomenal.

I loved the story on Vala and what she had to go through in the Ori galaxy to stay alive. I feel sorry for her. I think she has grown to care deeply about Tomin, and now he's about to go off and mass murder millions of innocent people, and she can't do anything to stop him. The dream sequence was very creepy. That flaming face (which was very well-done) gave me shivers up and down my spine. I also loved it when she asked them if they had heard of anyone else ever having a baby without the "usual bits." Carter, as a Roman Catholic, naturally thinking Mary, Mitchell chiming in about it happening once before and the Teal'c answered with what he thought was on their minds. Darth Vader. Sometimes I forget that he likes Star Was. Was surprised at Mitchell's answer. Also kinda freaked out, 'cause I did the same thing he did. Researched some Arthurian legend, particularly Merlin, after SG-1 got into it.

Michael Shanks was very good as Vala (the little bits we got to see of him), but I wish that they had let him play Vala a little bit more. I also liked the sub-plot with the Russians nearly reclaiming their Stargate. For a while there I was worried.

The Ori ships are actually interesting. In the shape of the symbol of Origin, I think they are the most unique ships I've seen in a long time. The weapons of the Ori are probably going to be very tough to beat.

A truly outstanding episode that has ended with all of Earth's allies searching the entire galaxy for one thing and Sg-1 searching for the one weapon that could prove once and for all that the Ori are not true gods, I wish my VCR had been working. I give this a fully deserved 5/5 stars. But next week is the season finale? The torture!:cool:

shester
March 4th, 2006, 09:35 AM
Except for the towel scene this was the most boring episode I have seen yet. Yak Yak Yak. Do we need everything explained? I could have done w/out all the yakking and had them go on to the planet. The most boring of the season for me. And I like Claudia. Just too much talking. I don't need to have everything explained to me. I was like Mitchell. Skip on to the necessary stuff.
Sybil

Formerhost
March 4th, 2006, 09:51 AM
Except for the towel scene this was the most boring episode I have seen yet. Yak Yak Yak. Do we need everything explained? I could have done w/out all the yakking and had them go on to the planet. The most boring of the season for me. And I like Claudia. Just too much talking. I don't need to have everything explained to me. I was like Mitchell. Skip on to the necessary stuff.
Sybil

You're extremely unfair here, but of course I respect your opinion. But after what Vala was through in the Ori galaxy (and don't forget it was SG-1's fault, they really should have listened to Vala in Beachhead), she deserved her own story. An extensive one. Just like this. THANK YOU CLAUDIA, THANK YOU ROBERT C. COOPER!!! :)

ShardsofGlass
March 4th, 2006, 10:02 AM
What Vala has been through has nothing to do with whether the episode was boring or not, and expressing the opinion that it was boring has nothing to do with fairness.

Personally, I thought it was fairly boring. Listening to Vala tell a story for an hour about the Ori in a peasant village is not the most exciting thing in the world. THere had to have been better ways to do this, but I can't think of any off the top of my head. Mostly, I just wanted less talking and more showing.

Skydiver
March 4th, 2006, 10:06 AM
The writers said they loved Vala, so I am pretty sure we will get a few of these jokes/sexjokes in every episode in season 10 as well.
yes, lord forbid we don't cater to the lowest common denominator at every opportunity :)

TameFarrar
March 4th, 2006, 10:06 AM
So what did I think of 219.... I enjoyed it alot :)

I figure if I am laughing within the first 3 minutes than I am going to have a good time with the episode and I really really did.

I personally am thrilled to have Vala back on the show and I liked how they kept some of her *saucy* side but toned it down a bit...just what is needed to keep her in the long term. Fun but serious when needed. CB excellent job!!

If a show HAS to do a flashback thingy this is much more how I prefer it...I do not like having the words *8 Hours ago* roll across the bottom of my screen. While it is basically the same it is not as easy to suspend disbelief in that kind of timeline....for me it is easier to have the character tell the story and see it unfold :D

Good background on the build-up of the Ori forces so next week looks to be a good one :D :D

The Russian/Chinese story line had all the makings of a really good tense situation...but this is where I thought the ball dropped. I did like Landry and his in your face moment with the Russian Col. in the Gate room. But I felt that so much MORE could have come from that but it was cleared up lickty spilt in the end...*sigh*

I am not real keen on the Ori immaculate Baby conception storyline...reminds me to much of BSG Cylon Baby story line. But I guess the writers *homage* writing style is theirs to use *shrug*

Overall I enjoyed the episode BECAUSE of Vala and her interaction with the team. I enjoyed the interplay within the team...some of the subtle back history references and I happen to like that Mitchell is true to his use of Grandma quotes.

and last but not least I read a post that made me LMAO...Cam in a towel...YUP made the whole episode worth watching (wink)

cafine_us
March 4th, 2006, 10:17 AM
Have we already returned the stargates from Off the Grid? During the entire Russian subplot, I kept thinking we would just let them have their gate, and set up a new gate with a DHD. Ours would of course have priority with the DHD. We'd keep a gate and the 304.

LMichelle
March 4th, 2006, 10:21 AM
I enjoyed this episode very much. I wished we had gotten more of Daniel acting like Vala. I'm sure TPTB didn't want to turn it into the comedy hour.

SG-1 didn't seem very sympathetic to Vala's plight. She is pregnant because the Ori "gifted" her with a child. Hell, I'd be scared, too. She had to endure three days of being chained up with no food or water. No one seemed to care. I think if she had been telling this to Daniel he'd have been more sympathetic.

We didn't get any reaction from Daniel about Vala "borrowing" his body. I thought we'd get something. Anything. I know they've got a mission to prepare for and more pressing concerns right now, but Daniel could have said something.

DEM
March 4th, 2006, 10:25 AM
CJ's line-reading of "Darth Vader" was the absolute high-point. Teal'c said it as if he were on a gameshow! Heh.

Oh, wait, no. Sam's breakfast reaction was equally swell.


Did not miss the long look between CB and BB--as if to say "together again" ugggg.Heh. Definitely excessive. Is that what people mean by 'smarm'?


They are even recycling names - Tomin. It is the same as the boy whom Teal'c befriended in 'The Learning Curve'.
So what? How many people you know have the same first name as you? That sounded overly defensive. IIRC RCC's unimaginativeness when coming up with character names is recognised enough to be a friendly joke amongst the writing staff. In a show where a significant majority of guest characters are known only by their first names, those names ought to be unique.


The most boring of the season for me.For me, that place is still held by all of the first five eps. I enjoyed this ep fairly well, despite its rather obvious goal of making Vala 'sympathetic' (aww), and although I don't imagine I'd ever want or even need to seek it out again.

Scratch that: I will be looking for good screencaps of two-shots of Carter & Teal'c so I can make icons.

Basically, it took an hour to learn that: 1) Vala was impregnated by Dahak and 2) the Ori have a whole lot of ships and many, many foot soldiers. In the present day, the U.S. gave Russia one of those take-a-long-time-to-manufacture yet ready-right-when-we-need-them spacecraft. *gack* In the end, I found it rather too prosaic for a 19th episode. If this is what TPTB have to do in order to have a bang-up season-ender, I'd rather they cut down the number of explosions planned for said ep.

By the way, I thought Mitchell's Guh-ran-maw was an evangelical Christian. Was her remark about confession, then, supposed to be ironic or sarcastic or something?

PS Immaculate Conception = Mary was born free of sin
Virgin Birth = Woman gets pregnant without doing the deed

Deejay435
March 4th, 2006, 10:35 AM
Except they could just as easily have had him in the beginning scene with Mitchell for the joke and to establish that she was in Daniel, and then not show any of him until the end when she was gone and Daniel was back. Or, they could have written some other way for Vala to communicate what happened without making her inhabit Daniel's body and he could have just been with the rest of SG1. Even if they were making it a showcase for CB (and this episode was 99% Vala), I can't see why they would want to wallpaper MS more than the other actors, who weren't exactly taking up gobs of screentime themselves. MS has gotten some nice stuff to work with this season (and no denying in the first half, which was full of Vala) and also in the second half (although I think we might disagree here), and it seems he's going to be active in the next episode, so it doesn't seem like they have some desire to wallpaper him.

I don't think it's a desire to wallpaper MS specifically. I just think the number one priority for tptb now is Vala, and they don't care who they wallpaper to give her a great chunk of screentime. Even Mitchell, their brand new lead, was wallpapered in favor of Vala in the beginning of the season. (That's part of the reason, I think, that the Mitchell character doesn't work for so many people. Part of how uneven his characterization has been.) This episode did little to make me believe season 10 is going to be anything less than the Vala show.

As you said, they could have written this episode a lot of different ways that didn't include makign Daniel all but invisible, and making the rest of SG1 nothing but a Greek Chorus that sat on their butts the entire episode. We've had single-character focused episodes in the past, but even then the story involved the others, and their actions and reactions vis-a-vis that character and what they're going through.

Dani347
March 4th, 2006, 10:38 AM
You're extremely unfair here, but of course I respect your opinion. But after what Vala was through in the Ori galaxy (and don't forget it was SG-1's fault, they really should have listened to Vala in Beachhead), she deserved her own story. An extensive one. Just like this. THANK YOU CLAUDIA, THANK YOU ROBERT C. COOPER!!! :)

I don't know if any fictional character "deserves" a storyline for their suffering. That seems to be mixing real life (storylines are given to actors, and CB didn't get shipped to the Ori galaxy) and fiction. I'm sure when weighing up the scales of justice and finding something to make up for her time there, no one in the Stargate universe would be thinking of storylines. Now, Vala deserved to be listened to, but as for the storyline, they could have given her one, but made it more show and not tell. Which would have accomplished the same thing.

metatron
March 4th, 2006, 10:40 AM
Does anyone know a link to the preview for Camelot ?

Deejay435
March 4th, 2006, 10:46 AM
Scratch that: I will be looking for good screencaps of two-shots of Carter & Teal'c so I can make icons.

Basically, it took an hour to learn that: 1) Vala was impregnated by Dahak and 2) the Ori have a whole lot of ships and many, many foot soldiers. In the present day, the U.S. gave Russia one of those take-a-long-time-to-manufacture yet ready-right-when-we-need-them spacecraft. *gack* In the end, I found it rather too prosaic for a 19th episode. If this is what TPTB have to do in order to have a bang-up season-ender, I'd rather they cut down the number of explosions planned for said ep.

By the way, I thought Mitchell's Guh-ran-maw was an evangelical Christian. Was her remark about confession, then, supposed to be ironic or sarcastic or something?

PS Immaculate Conception = Mary was born free of sin
Virgin Birth = Woman gets pregnant without doing the deed

I would have greened you for this post, but I guess I love you too much already. ;-)

I'd love to see those icons when you've finished with them.

You know, I'm glad someone else didn't get the grandma thing either. I just didn't see what it had to do with Vala's reference to the Ori village having more sin than we'd previously thought. It was jarring.

Also, speaking of the Ori village-do they all look identical? And Vala's husband has the exact same decorative scheme in his bedroom as Salis and...oh, I forget his name.

Finally, was I the only one to see Michael Ironside's character as the leader of the resistance coming a mile away?

Formerhost
March 4th, 2006, 10:46 AM
Does anyone know a link to the preview for Camelot ?

http://www.sg1archive.com/s9.shtml

scroll to the bottom of the page. But you need Quick Time or Quick Time Alternative to watch it, as it is .mov file.

Dannygirl
March 4th, 2006, 10:48 AM
Well, I gotta say that I haven't been this excited to see the season finale since season 7. I thought this was an awesome precursor to the final epi. As for Vala, sometimes she drove me crazy at the beginning of this season, but I thought she was excellent in this epi. Not overly sarcastic as we're use to seeing her, though I think that fits given she's "undercover" in enemy hands. Sarcasm wouldn't be wise. I'm glad they focused on her story in this given she is in enemy territory. We've known she'd be coming back so the big question would be what's been going on with her there. I think they answered that well enough. Not to mention that the story wasn't just about her, but about the people there and what the Ori were up to and just how willing they were to murder people for the sake of their "Gods".

Very clever of her to come up with the excuse she did while keeping an innocent expression at the end with her husband aiming a weapon at her. The beginning was classic Vala, not to mention Daniel's expression in the mirror in front of Mitch. Couldn't stop laughing at that. Very looking forward to the finale and no doubt next season. 5/5

Formerhost
March 4th, 2006, 10:50 AM
I don't think it's a desire to wallpaper MS specifically. I just think the number one priority for tptb now is Vala, and they don't care who they wallpaper to give her a great chunk of screentime. Even Mitchell, their brand new lead, was wallpapered in favor of Vala in the beginning of the season. (That's part of the reason, I think, that the Mitchell character doesn't work for so many people. Part of how uneven his characterization has been.) This episode did little to make me believe season 10 is going to be anything less than the Vala show.

As you said, they could have written this episode a lot of different ways that didn't include makign Daniel all but invisible, and making the rest of SG1 nothing but a Greek Chorus that sat on their butts the entire episode. We've had single-character focused episodes in the past, but even then the story involved the others, and their actions and reactions vis-a-vis that character and what they're going through.

When somebody is credited as SPECIAL GUEST STAR, that means that this person is actually sort of the lead in these episodes.

cafine_us
March 4th, 2006, 10:55 AM
Finally, was I the only one to see Michael Ironside's character as the leader of the resistance coming a mile away?
Not at all. Okay, I didn't know he was the leader, but I could tell he was part of the resistance. Somehow that was incredibly obvious. Now that he's dead, I wonder if and how Vala will communicate with his connections for further planning and intel.

Skydiver
March 4th, 2006, 10:57 AM
Have we already returned the stargates from Off the Grid? During the entire Russian subplot, I kept thinking we would just let them have their gate, and set up a new gate with a DHD. Ours would of course have priority with the DHD. We'd keep a gate and the 304.
not just the OTG gates, after 9 years im sure there is no shortage of 'this planet's inhabitable, but they have a gate' that we can send the odyssey to go and snag.

in fact, i would think having a spare gate would have been a priority

Amanda Eros
March 4th, 2006, 10:58 AM
An okay episode, IMO, learned three things 1. Vala's having an Ori baby. 2. The Ori have a super gate. 3. The Russians are getting an American made ship. Otherwise, everything else is just extra details.

DEM
March 4th, 2006, 11:02 AM
When somebody is credited as SPECIAL GUEST STAR, that means that this person is actually sort of the lead in these episodes.Er, no. It just means the person is 'important' in some way; either the person is special to the franchise or the producers, or commands a lot of pay or good billing. Vanessa Angel (Freya-Anise) rec'd Special Guest billing in all of her appearances, as did Alexis Cruz (Skaara). Either one or both of the USAF Chiefs of Staff rec'd Special Guest credit.

shockwave
March 4th, 2006, 11:06 AM
was a good episode
the ori warriors look a lot like jaffa
was it me, or did this prior not have eyes?

DEM
March 4th, 2006, 11:06 AM
I would have greened you for this post, but I guess I love you too much already. ;-)
Ah, shucks. :D Thanks.


Finally, was I the only one to see Michael Ironside's character as the leader of the resistance coming a mile away?I was fooled. Indeed, thinking back on it, I'm not sure I'd be able to see it even with the benefit of hindsight. I mean, sure, he didn't seem all that pious, but...

Dannygirl
March 4th, 2006, 11:08 AM
With him dead, I wonder if they're going to bother with any more connections or if that effectively kills off the resistance. The others might be too scared to try anything more.

I read the spoilers for Ironside so I have no idea whether or not I would've known otherwise. I might not have.

As for it being boring, I never was. But then again it just comes down to taste and interest. My boss loves SG but more with the shotemup scenes than with the Daniel-type of scenes while I love Daniel-type of scenes. So her story was interesting to me.

Also, was it just me or did I see an Asgard ship in the previews for next week???

shester
March 4th, 2006, 11:09 AM
I didn't mind her having her own story, Formerhost, I just wish it hadn't been so boring a story.
Sybil

cafine_us
March 4th, 2006, 11:16 AM
was a good episode
the ori warriors look a lot like jaffa
was it me, or did this prior not have eyes?
He was definitely missing his right eye, but I think he did have his left. He was really squinty though, so it was hard to tell if it was there.

Skydiver
March 4th, 2006, 11:24 AM
Er, no. It just means the person is 'important' in some way; either the person is special to the franchise or the producers, or commands a lot of pay or good billing. Vanessa Angel (Freya-Anise) rec'd Special Guest billing in all of her appearances, as did Alexis Cruz (Skaara). Either one or both of the USAF Chiefs of Staff rec'd Special Guest credit.
wasn't rda credited as 'special guest star' for his 2 minutes earlier this season?

FerCryinOutLoud!
March 4th, 2006, 11:30 AM
Originally Posted by FerCryinOutLoud!

I know it probably won't happen but i have a nagging feeling that Mitchel might die in the season finale. I know i'm probably crazy and i know it won't happen, i still have a slight feeling though. I hope not, i like Mitchel when he's not being immature.

[/QUOTE]Rest assured it won't happen. Unless he dies in the Daniel way and comes back. You don't kill off your lead character just to do it.[QUOTE]

I know that. I know he won't die. I know you don't kill off your main character. I have to tell that to my little sister everytime she thinks Starbuck is going to die on Battlestar Galactica. I still had the feeling anyway. I thought i'd share, just for the heck of it. And if he were ever to die on the show i would think it would be for one or two reasons. One... RDA reprising his role of Jack O'Neil. Two... Sam Carter taking over the team because Ben Browder wanting to move on to something else. The latter is the least likely.

BlackBaron
March 4th, 2006, 11:40 AM
IMO it was a great episode. Damn I love the seen were Teal'c says "Darth Vader" as an anwser to Vala's question. Great episode and a good one right before the final episode this series. I wonder how the baby's gonna turn out.
Didn't go so well for Darth Vader... lol!

Zoser
March 4th, 2006, 11:55 AM
So what? How many people you know have the same first name as you?
In this galaxy? These people are from different galaxy.

Skydiver
March 4th, 2006, 11:59 AM
these boys do have a bad habit of resuing names

jonas hansen, jonas quinn, jona - jack in bts, sara o'neill, sarah garder, zaran - the tok'ra in endgame, not to mention alien names getting reused.

it's very confusing to those that are watching/keeping track of things to have aliens all having the same name, and considering how easy it is to make up a name and all the resources that list the various names of aliens, there's really no excuse for them not at least attempting to have a unique name for each alien character

Formerhost
March 4th, 2006, 12:00 PM
wasn't rda credited as 'special guest star' for his 2 minutes earlier this season?

nope, it was Special Appearance. I re-watched the first 6 episodes this week, to remind myself previous Vala's episodes, so I can tell it for sure.

JackGyver
March 4th, 2006, 12:11 PM
Decent episode. I'm not a huge Vala fan, but I found the episode surprisingly tolerable and even likeable in places. The show still doesn't feel right (IMO), and the team was a little too inactive, but it was good to see Chekov and I look forward to seeing him in command of the... Korolev is it? Kovalev? I hope they don't utilize the flashback format like that again, though. It barely worked. I'm skeptical about next week, but who knows?

DEM
March 4th, 2006, 12:12 PM
nope, it was Special Appearance.So what? Did you see my earlier post? For clarity: Vanessa Angel's Freya-Anise was never the "lead" or even "sort of" in any of her appearances; Alexis Cruz's Skaara even less so.

esoap524
March 4th, 2006, 12:17 PM
You're extremely unfair here, but of course I respect your opinion. But after what Vala was through in the Ori galaxy (and don't forget it was SG-1's fault, they really should have listened to Vala in Beachhead), she deserved her own story. An extensive one. Just like this. THANK YOU CLAUDIA, THANK YOU ROBERT C. COOPER!!! :)

Amen, brother (or sister)!

As far as "wallpapering" MS and the other characters--perhaps putting them on screen more frequently didn't serve the story they wanted to tell. That happens--sometimes an episode is told thru a certain character POV with others pretty much just listening.

Ironically, one of the best Farscape episodes was told in a similar fashion but, without the flashes of humor, and Claudia Black's character was the primary storyteller/POV character. Scapers out there might remember "The Way We Weren't." Similar thing, lots of exposition and flashback but has 2 character POVs instead of just one, but no sidestory like the Russian/Stargate thing. That episode is widely recognized as one of FS's best outings.

Just an observation.

ShardsofGlass
March 4th, 2006, 12:22 PM
esop524, to go off topic for a bit. TWWW from FS was so much better. We didn't watch Aeryn sit in a chair while the rest of the crew watched her tell her story. It was intertwined into what else was going on in the ep, and there were emotional repercussions with other characters who were involved in the learning of the story. In this case, the SG-1 team wasn't involved in Vala's story at all. THey just sat there and listened. It was such a static, unemotional setup that I almost wish we couldn't just spent the time with Vala on the planet without having to listen to her tell the story and explain everything so much.

Formerhost
March 4th, 2006, 12:23 PM
Amen, brother (or sister)!

As far as "wallpapering" MS and the other characters--perhaps putting them on screen more frequently didn't serve the story they wanted to tell. That happens--sometimes an episode is told thru a certain character POV with others pretty much just listening.

Ironically, one of the best Farscape episodes was told in a similar fashion but, without the flashes of humor, and Claudia Black's character was the primary storyteller/POV character. Scapers out there might remember "The Way We Weren't." Similar thing, lots of exposition and flashback but has 2 character POVs instead of just one, but no sidestory like the Russian/Stargate thing. That episode is widely recognized as one of FS's best outings.

Just an observation.

Sister :) And I agree with you completely.

Formerhost
March 4th, 2006, 12:26 PM
esop524, to go off topic for a bit. TWWW from FS was so much better. We didn't watch Aeryn sit in a chair while the rest of the crew watched her tell her story. It was intertwined into what else was going on in the ep, and there were emotional repercussions with other characters who were involved in the learning of the story. In this case, the SG-1 team wasn't involved in Vala's story at all. THey just sat there and listened. It was such a static, unemotional setup that I almost wish we couldn't just spent the time with Vala on the planet without having to listen to her tell the story and explain everything so much.

You know, I've just finished watching this episode for THE THIRD TIME today and I really don't know what you're talking about. :S

warmbeachbrat
March 4th, 2006, 12:28 PM
esop524, to go off topic for a bit. TWWW from FS was so much better. We didn't watch Aeryn sit in a chair while the rest of the crew watched her tell her story. It was intertwined into what else was going on in the ep, and there were emotional repercussions with other characters who were involved in the learning of the story. In this case, the SG-1 team wasn't involved in Vala's story at all. THey just sat there and listened. It was such a static, unemotional setup that I almost wish we couldn't just spent the time with Vala on the planet without having to listen to her tell the story and explain everything so much.

A previous post mentioned that SG-1 wasn't involved emotionally with Vala's story, but I wonder if that's because it was Daniel that they were seeing tell the story. If they were actually seeing Vala, it might have been a little different.

I also wonder how much of an uproar would have ensued if the show had been only Vala on the planet with just a little bit of SGC at the beginning and end of the episode. Something tells me that even if it made for a better episode, a lot of people would not be happy that they didn't get to see more of SG-1.

Tracker
March 4th, 2006, 12:41 PM
A previous post mentioned that SG-1 wasn't involved emotionally with Vala's story, but I wonder if that's because it was Daniel that they were seeing tell the story. If they were actually seeing Vala, it might have been a little different.


Not to mention, that was a heck of a bomb she dropped on them. Think about it 1)They find out that their cobbled together comm device works, 2) Vala is alive, 3)She's pregnant sans partner, 4)Married?!? 4)The Ori have a freakin' armada, and 5)They're on the way, which means 6)There's a super-gate out there somewhere.

If it was me, I'd be a bit shell shocked from all that.

LaCroix
March 4th, 2006, 12:53 PM
I was about to say it was a fair episode, until I remembered Mitchell's line about Arthur.

Legend states that Uther Pendragon, with the help of Merlin, used a glamour
of sorts on Igraine, wife of Gorlois of Cornwall. Bedded her and nine months later Arthur was born.

Let's just say someone forgot to do his homework. And leave it at that.

I also have to say something about the Priors. The're begining to resemble the Harbringers of The First Evil on Buffy. With scarred eyes and pale flesh.
At first glance I thought Tomin was being played by Nathan Fillion, but another look I saw it wasn't.

Loved Tealcs line about Darth Vader.

The weapon used by Tomin kinda looked like one used by the slayers of Krull.
Which may explain the Darth Vader line since Liam Neeson play a role in that movie.

Vala was a little toned down and didn't bother me too much. Missed Daniel though.

Next weeks episode. Maybe, maybe not. I just might re-read That Hideous Strength by C.S. Lewis. Who knows.

esoap524
March 4th, 2006, 12:58 PM
esop524, to go off topic for a bit. TWWW from FS was so much better. We didn't watch Aeryn sit in a chair while the rest of the crew watched her tell her story. It was intertwined into what else was going on in the ep, and there were emotional repercussions with other characters who were involved in the learning of the story. In this case, the SG-1 team wasn't involved in Vala's story at all. THey just sat there and listened. It was such a static, unemotional setup that I almost wish we couldn't just spent the time with Vala on the planet without having to listen to her tell the story and explain everything so much.


No argument from me on TWWW being better. It's one of my all time favorites and Claudia absolutely rocks.

But it still takes a similar way of telling a story--one POV character, relating the past and how it's going to connect to the current situation. In SG1, this exposition drives the plot forward. In TWWW, it's actually something that drives the character arcs.It goes back to my opinion about the difference between SG1 and Farscape: SG1 is more plot driven, Farscape is more character driven.

But, then again, to be fair to SG1, the relationships between the "team" at the time of TWWW were deeper anyway. Those characters had a lot more emotional investment in the two characters (Aeryn and Pilot) who were telling the story. Therefore, their emotional reactions were more heightened because they had more at stake. What they heard from Aeryn in that episode only brought back the old wounds of "you can't trust a peacekeeper" to a crew that had been imprisoned by her kind.

In this case, the SG1 team doesn't care a whole lot for Vala; other than the big "she saved their asses" moment in Beachhead, she didn't do them a whole lot of favors and they saw her more as a nuisance than a team member. Plus, anything she says would be taken with a grain of salt given that most of what she says is a lie. So the emotional investment on the part of those listeners is much less than those of the folks on Moya.

I agree, more time on the planet without the v/o would have been preferable. I thought the guy who played her husband was excellent and I found myself wanting to know more about what happens to him and to Vala when the episode ended with the SG1 having to face down the new threat. I was all--but, but...what about Tomin and Vala?

Of course, I am a soapy kinda gal.


A previous post mentioned that SG-1 wasn't involved emotionally with Vala's story, but I wonder if that's because it was Daniel that they were seeing tell the story. If they were actually seeing Vala, it might have been a little different.

I also wonder how much of an uproar would have ensued if the show had been only Vala on the planet with just a little bit of SGC at the beginning and end of the episode. Something tells me that even if it made for a better episode, a lot of people would not be happy that they didn't get to see more of SG-1.

I've stated my case for the lack of "emotional involvement." I never thought of how seeing this through Daniel would make a difference to the listeners. Very good point! Even so, I felt that their interest and belief increased as the story went on, which is probably one of the reasons my interest piqued as well. I have to admit that at about the 30 minute mark, I sort of had my fingers pushed against my lips and felt very tense over the whole thing. I really was just tuning in to see Claudia Black, and not necessarily expecting to be very interested in the whole thing.

Woo-boy, uproar is an understatement. Have people ALWAYS counted how many minutes each actor/character spends on screen, or the number of lines each team member gets to say, or is this a new thing with the arrival of new cast?

I thought for what the story was trying to accomplish, it worked. It was a set up, yes, and I thought it was vastly more intriguing than last week's episode, which was also a set up, even though it had less action.

Fatewarns
March 4th, 2006, 01:10 PM
Tomin is a great character the actor who plays him was great.

Tim Guinee(the guy who plays Tomin) play a killer that was kind yet brutal, in Law & Order episode Hubris his character was Mark Landry/Richard Morriston. He was great in it.

Tomin I feel a pity for him, but at the same time I see that he would do anything for the Ori.

yeah I agree the Ori staff weapon is basically the same to Jaffa staff weapon, but the Ori staff weapon has a pitcher on the tip which I think would be useful for close hand to hand fighting.

valaCB
March 4th, 2006, 01:11 PM
excellent episode and Claudia was gorgeous in this episode!

and i find a blooper :cool: When Vala and her husband talking in front of the mirror, they talk together in some point, so we can see the result, Claudia and Tim Guinee start to laugh..heheh

BTW- the 'drum solo' was funny :lol:

Jonzey
March 4th, 2006, 01:23 PM
Wow, actually a lot of praise for this ep, even from some antis!

For me, it was a little slow. I was expecting the Ori ships to get into our galaxy in the ep. But I still enjoyed it. It certainly set things up for next week, which should be awesome. But I'm guessing Vala's gonna come through to our galaxy on one of the Ori ships or something.

By the way, this is kinda off topic and probably sounds really whiney, but can we not talk about the preview for next week in this thread (or at least spoiler it). I avoid all spoilers now and it really bugs me when people start talking about next week's ep when I was so careful to avoid watching the preview myself (sometimes it can give more away than I'd like). Or other things which people just take for granted, like the new Russian ship people keep talking about.

NotAscended
March 4th, 2006, 05:00 PM
Responding to something a few pages back, since I kept getting kicked off the board.


Well, I gotta say that I haven't been this excited to see the season finale since season 7. I thought this was an awesome precursor to the final epi. As for Vala, sometimes she drove me crazy at the beginning of this season, but I thought she was excellent in this epi. Not overly sarcastic as we're use to seeing her, though I think that fits given she's "undercover" in enemy hands. Sarcasm wouldn't be wise. I'm glad they focused on her story in this given she is in enemy territory. We've known she'd be coming back so the big question would be what's been going on with her there. I think they answered that well enough. Not to mention that the story wasn't just about her, but about the people there and what the Ori were up to and just how willing they were to murder people for the sake of their "Gods".

I was surprisingly engrossed throughout this episode and really liked that we get a more personal connection to the Ori followers. Although we got to see a little bit of that in the earlier episode in the Ori galaxy, this time we got to see that it's actually very nice, well-meaning people who are being turned into soldiers by following their blind faith. I found Tomin's character really appealing and am sad that it are ships full of people like him that we will be forced to destroy in the future. I never felt so bad about the Jaffa under the service of their gods, because they were trained warriors. These folks are just regular townspeople, conscripted to serve the Ori. Very sad.


Very clever of her to come up with the excuse she did while keeping an innocent expression at the end with her husband aiming a weapon at her. The beginning was classic Vala, not to mention Daniel's expression in the mirror in front of Mitch. Couldn't stop laughing at that. Very looking forward to the finale and no doubt next season. 5/5

This episode really solidified Vala's character and makes me look forward to what she can bring to S10. Such composure while at the business end of a weapon! Goodness knows, she can talk her way out of most anything.

Also, was very amused by the little bit between Carter and Vala, when Carter's trying to tell her she has chocolate on her nose. Kind of a nice little bonding moment ... because that's what women do for each other!

Colonel Sharp
March 4th, 2006, 05:11 PM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
WHY?!?! Why the [email protected]#[email protected] did we give the russians a space ship?!!?

They couldn't have gotten the gate if they even tried!

They just had to pick one of the major three important things on the DO NOT GIVE RUSSIANS list:
1. The stargate.
2. Control of Atlantis.
3. A giant spaceship.

Skydiver
March 4th, 2006, 05:51 PM
I was about to say it was a fair episode, until I remembered Mitchell's line about Arthur.

Legend states that Uther Pendragon, with the help of Merlin, used a glamour
of sorts on Igraine, wife of Gorlois of Cornwall. Bedded her and nine months later Arthur was born.

Let's just say someone forgot to do his homework. And leave it at that.



yeah. not only is it incredibly wrong, there was no 'conception without copulation', it was basically the two individuals being tricked into seeing someone else and the baby was conceived the old fashioned way

and it was a bit odd, after all this uber religion overtones of the ori and the tie ins to present day issues that cam comes up with the arthur angle instead of the one world wide known 'c w/o c' that is jesus. like what, they started out with all this religious stuff and then don't wanna take that big step? shoulda thought of htat before they made the ori their main villians

it made the whole arthur angle very much crammed in there. you know, to heck with research and how things 'really' happened, we need to drag arthur in there somehow

sloppy and another glaring plot hole. which ranks right up there with earth never thinking to go snag an extra gate to give the russians thiers back.

sloppy writing

PG15
March 4th, 2006, 06:03 PM
4.99/5, only because I know Camelot will be better. :D

Vala was great! There is still a bit of old Vala in her (which I loved), and now we have a more caring Vala, which is awesome as well! Best of both worlds!

I really felt for her when she described Tomin as the kindest person she's met, and seeing that sense of hopelessness, since she knew that she can't stop him.

The ships DO looks like toilets...hmm...it's strange really, you'd think the producers would've realized that. Weird.

Lastly, I gotta say this: ROBERT COOPER, YOU DID AN AWESOME JOB! That was very cinematic, especially with all the sweeping and moving shots, and yet it maintained the regular Stargate movements instead of moving too far off into, say BSG land or something. The music was great as well.

All in all, a great episode. Bring on Camelot!

RealmOfX
March 4th, 2006, 06:09 PM
Well, that was a slow episode. Informative but slow. It was an OK ep but it's going on my don't watch again list, not because it was bad just that one viewing is all I'll ever need. Nothing in here I'd class as rewatchable.

What I liked
- loved the quick breakfast scene with Cam, Dan & Sam. Why the handheld camera here though? Also used in final scene. RCC experimenting?
- Kawoosh!!! LOL is this now a technical term?
- Subdued but funny Vala I like! She has promise (I'm not holding my breath though)
- Subdued Mitchell was much better
- Cool kneading technique Vala has!
- Yay Teal'c :D Darth Vader ROFLMAO
- Good scenes between Chekov and Landry, yes I'm definitely liking Landry more as the season progresses
- Cool demon face in the fire
- Good setup for the finale BUT did I mention it was Slow!
- Mini pitchforks!! but will SGC flak jackets with the ceramic inserts protect SG teams against them?


Nothing for the Didn't Like list :thoranime09:


Random bits that didn't qualify as Didn't Like
- Ugh - another Grandma joke
- Really suprised when Mitchell said Ygraine because I was thinking of the Christain one. Great line for Teal'c by the way. I know there are many versions of the Arthurian legend but isn't the enchanting of Ygraine supposed to be where Uther was made to appear as her husband and they conceive Arthur?? Maybe they are heading somewhere with that, but then again maybe not.
- I really hope that SGC got permanent custody of the gate in exchange for the ship. Having the Russian's have a hold over the Stargate program is getting OLD!! Get real, not only did the SGC recently have a shipload of gates & DHD's in their posession but they could go grab a set from an uninhabited planet anytime they want.
- I hope they continue Vala's character along these subdued lines as I can see this version of her as a permanent character next season. Tone her down and she comes across as smart and funny, ramp her up and it gets ludicrous. However I'm not holding my breath. Mitchell started off as a decent officer and look what they did to him.
- Teal'c and Sam's musical chairs! First he was at the back of the room, then next to Sam, then at the back and so on. They actually changed chairs a couple of times too. I realise it was to accommodate the different camera shots but it says something that I was paying more attention to this than the storyline.
- We didn't get to see much of the Chinese delegate. Or Daniel for that matter.


So this is the episode we get when they don't do a clip show. Oh well, I hope they spent the money well on the SFX for next week. I thought CB did a good job with Vala this week. Did I mention it was slow? Informative but slow, could have fit it in a half hour or less.

nccjones
March 4th, 2006, 06:42 PM
This was more on the so-so side because it was reeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaally boring. The SGC wasn't even at all phased that she communicated with them. Sam and Mitchell were only excited about the technology and how to turn it off. I got the feeling that if Vala hadn't have tried to contact them they would have totally forgotten about her (if they hadn't already). I actually felt bad for Vala, because she had spent the last few months trying to figure a way to contact them and they continued on without her.

Another thing that bothered me is we never saw any reaction from Daniel when he found out Vala had contacted them. Also, didn't Daniel and Vala go into a coma when they used the device? Why was Vala just sitting there calmly when her husband came in shooting? I felt for the bar maid....that was a grisly death scene. She did a good job.

I didn't care much for Tomin. I thought he was a weak character and I'm surprised that Vala felt anything for him. Especially after the way he left her for 3 days no food and no water. That whole thing bugged me. The Michael Ironsides guy...can't remember his name, said he left her to "test" her. Three days????? A pregnant woman? I could understand a day if that.

But Tomin...he killed two people in cold blood and is willing to kill an entire galaxy if need be in the name of the Ori...talk about a Jihad. I could see someone like him strapping a bomb on himself and walking onto a planet where there's tons of people and pulling the trigger. I also hope this doesn't turn out to be some kind of love story where he sees the light and he and Vala live happily ever after. I'm kinda worried about that too. But I'm thinking he'll probably come to a grisly end.

Overall, it was a boring episode. The interview was painful. Though I did get a kick out Vala wanting pancakes....lol. I'm probably one of the only one's who didn't care for Daniel in the locker room.

It really was nice to see Vala again, though toned down some mainly due to her pregnancy. Would have liked more Daniel . Definately missed his sweet face and kind eyes. Looking forward to next week, I think it will be a good cliffhanger and exciting to watch. Man, I do miss the evil Goua'ld...lol.

Oh, and can you believe it? I have nothing bad to say about Mitchell! (Nothing good either...he was just blah....lol, oh, and I could have done without another Grandma joke...they're getting old.)

the fifth man
March 4th, 2006, 08:08 PM
Just finished watching "Crusade" again awhile ago. And I'm glad I did, because I caught a few things I didn't on the first run.:) Definitely an awesome episode. Vala was terrific, and the actor who played her husband rocked too. I sure hope to see him next week in "Camelot". It's just sad that he'll probably have to be killed.:( There's no way to turn him against the Ori.

esoap524
March 4th, 2006, 08:49 PM
I found Tomin's character really appealing and am sad that it are ships full of people like him that we will be forced to destroy in the future. I never felt so bad about the Jaffa under the service of their gods, because they were trained warriors. These folks are just regular townspeople, conscripted to serve the Ori. Very sad.

I agree. This episode did an excellent job of giving a human face to these followers. win or lose, you're going to feel badly for these people who are killed in the name of origin. As Vala pointed out, it's gonna be bloody.



This episode really solidified Vala's character and makes me look forward to what she can bring to S10. Such composure while at the business end of a weapon! Goodness knows, she can talk her way out of most anything.

Also, was very amused by the little bit between Carter and Vala, when Carter's trying to tell her she has chocolate on her nose. Kind of a nice little bonding moment ... because that's what women do for each other!

Finally! I liked Vala from the get-go probably because of my fangirliness over Claudia Black but I didn't like the fact that she had no depth, especially because Black is a very good actress. This episode showed more depth, and, thusly, more range. I thought the scenes between Vala and Tomin were very touching, so much so that I feel sick thinking about his eventual demise--you know the poor sap is toast!

I liked that little Carter/Vala moment too. Even though I thought it was a tad over the top, I liked the resulting Carter/Vala interaction. I sure hope we get lot more C/V moments in s10.

I also thought the Mitchell moment, where he tells Vala that it's surprising that there was a part of her that DID want the baby, was a nice glimpse into Mitchell--matter of fact, yet still compassionate. It was lovely. I didn't mind a mostly character driven episode at all. Wouldn't want it weekly but it was a nice break.

Skythe
March 4th, 2006, 08:58 PM
Pretty much agree with this guy:



-Vala didn’t make obnoxious sex jokes (I’ll overlook the pants comment for AGateFan’s sake :D) or was otherwise immature.

-We didn’t have a potential senate committee hearing redux by forcing Vala/Daniel to meet with the Russian and Chinese delegates.

-The child is not miraculously Daniel’s – no Daniel/Vala ship for me, thank you very much.

-Vala and Sam didn’t get into some hissy catfight like some fans were hoping… :rolleyes:



One thing that bothered me was their obvious reuse of the set from the early s9 eps. I know theyre going to be using medieval societies for this theme, but they could at least make each set look a little different.

The russian blackmail thing was interesting. I'm kinda hoping for a combined china/russia stargate-thing... it would be cool if they could just use their new ship to create a base on a random close planet.. would take minutes to get their using hyperdrive. And then it would be further cooler if they program actually ran fairly succesfully without the SGC having to hold their hands all the time. Would make for interesting episodes. Would make for a good spinoff series in china :p in communist china, the gate travels through YOU!
Evidently i still think we're going to be 'seeing' china around. And russia.

I like the direction the show is going in alot now. And will we see vala on earth again? Like many people said, i love the fact that they've toned down vala and made her more serious.

the fifth man
March 4th, 2006, 09:02 PM
I like the direction the show is going in alot now. And will we see vala on earth again? Like many people said, i love the fact that they've toned down vala and made her more serious.

Oh, we'll be seeing her on Earth again. Definitely!:)

Galilahi
March 4th, 2006, 09:23 PM
ok, i don't know if this was discussed because I really didn't feel like scrolling through all those pages. Toward the beginning when Vala asked if anyone had heard of a baby being conceived through immaculate coneption (i thought jesus) and teal'c said darth vader (god i love how CJ delivers lines!) Mitchell then said King Arthur. I only say this because I recently completed a class in Arthurian Literature; that really isn't correct. I don't know of any version of the Arthur myth where he was conceived through immaculate conception. But I could be wrong. Does anyone know for sure?

pittsburghgirl
March 4th, 2006, 09:37 PM
This was a painful episode to watch. As I said in the anti-9 thread it was pitiful.

I used the fast forward through most of this episode-the commercials were more interesting.

I don't mind them trying to redeem Vala, lord knows I like Claudia and she is a real talent-but puleeze-this heart string stuff???

PG15
March 4th, 2006, 09:37 PM
Someone said above that it's indeed wrong.

I couldn't care less though.

pittsburghgirl
March 4th, 2006, 09:38 PM
ok, i don't know if this was discussed because I really didn't feel like scrolling through all those pages. Toward the beginning when Vala asked if anyone had heard of a baby being conceived through immaculate coneption (i thought jesus) and teal'c said darth vader (god i love how CJ delivers lines!) Mitchell then said King Arthur. I only say this because I recently completed a class in Arthurian Literature; that really isn't correct. I don't know of any version of the Arthur myth where he was conceived through immaculate conception. But I could be wrong. Does anyone know for sure?
there is no indication that it was through immaculate conception that Aurthur was conceived. Probably a plot hole device or a deliberate use to tie in the whole legend.

pittsburghgirl
March 4th, 2006, 09:39 PM
ok, i don't know if this was discussed because I really didn't feel like scrolling through all those pages. Toward the beginning when Vala asked if anyone had heard of a baby being conceived through immaculate coneption (i thought jesus) and teal'c said darth vader (god i love how CJ delivers lines!) Mitchell then said King Arthur. I only say this because I recently completed a class in Arthurian Literature; that really isn't correct. I don't know of any version of the Arthur myth where he was conceived through immaculate conception. But I could be wrong. Does anyone know for sure?
there is no indication that it was through immaculate conception that Aurthur was conceived. Probably a plot hole device or a deliberate use to tie in the whole legend.

GateTrek2004
March 4th, 2006, 10:13 PM
:vala: :vala: YEA! VALA IS BACK! :vala: :vala: when saw the scene with jackson and mitchell in the locker room and mitchell saying is there something i should know and see it was vala, i about cracked up! you have to feel bad for vala when she was chained up outside for 3 days with no food/water. i was just yelling at tomin to go get her and was glad that he did in the end of that. and to know that vala's baby was a mircle from the ori just said to me Oh S***. i did already know that from the spoilers from episode 1 of season 10, but it was still shocking to know. Well we should all know that vala sneaks on board the ori ship with tomin and gets back to the MW galaxy. i can't wait to see the supergate in action! and know that they gave the 304 plans to the russians to keep the stargate, but will we see a 304 to a 303? cause that have had time to build a 303, and if the next eppy is set right after the conclusion of the last or a fw weeks, will they have time to build the korolev? overal this episode was great and look forward to the final episode camelot!

Fatewarns
March 4th, 2006, 11:29 PM
I found it disturbing that Tomin was happy he got conscripted by the Ori.

Peoples_General
March 4th, 2006, 11:37 PM
I found it disturbing that Tomin was happy he got conscripted by the Ori.

It's called religious fanaticism...

We also see this on Earth, unfortunately. And it's not just the religious fundamentalists however, who get excited and happy.

Giantevilhead
March 5th, 2006, 12:39 AM
They're totally misusing Michael Ironside. He has a great menacing voice, they should have him play an Ori or at least a Prior.

Formerhost
March 5th, 2006, 01:30 AM
Just finished watching "Crusade" again awhile ago. And I'm glad I did, because I caught a few things I didn't on the first run.:) Definitely an awesome episode. Vala was terrific, and the actor who played her husband rocked too. I sure hope to see him next week in "Camelot". It's just sad that he'll probably have to be killed.:( There's no way to turn him against the Ori.

I suppose we'll see more of Tomin in season 10, not necessarily in next week's "Camelot". But I'm predicting extremely sad ending to his and Vala's story :(

scarimor
March 5th, 2006, 05:29 AM
Nice moments:

Sam: [with mouth full of breakfast] "Oh my god, it worked!"

Teal'c: "Darth Vader."

Cameron: "Jackson. Is there something I should know?"

Sam/Vala: choc on the nose

I liked the simple but effective method of handling Vala in Daniel - locker-room mirror and video-monitor shows what the other characters can see while direct shots of the character show us the real deal.

This was for the most part an exposition episode, which could have been tightened up in paces but was generally ok. I was happily surprised by the resistance-leader twist (yay! so long since a SG-1 twist has caught me.. what a nice warm feeling :) ). It is quite a solid set-up for the season-finale so here's hoping Camelot lives up to it.

[the Aurthurian legend element re. pregnancy without sex strayed a tad!]

T'saria
March 5th, 2006, 07:40 AM
great EP!

Teal'c rocks! When he said Darth Vader, I just about feel on the floor!
:indeed:

And Vala! whoo-hoo! Claudia did a fabulous job
and, might I add, held the show. She's a strong actress.
You also have to say that we are seeing a whole
new side of Vala in this EP.

How about those Ori ships. The gate at the
head of them as their "power source?"
Really cool looking!

Of course the season finale is coming. how rude! :tealcanime22:

ah well...things are getting very interesting!

AGateFan
March 5th, 2006, 07:41 AM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
WHY?!?! Why the [email protected]#[email protected] did we give the russians a space ship?!!?

They couldn't have gotten the gate if they even tried!

They just had to pick one of the major three important things on the DO NOT GIVE RUSSIANS list:
1. The stargate.
2. Control of Atlantis.
3. A giant spaceship.
They should get a ship, chinese too... and then they can sit on the front lines and face the Ori or whatever just like us. Then we will see how much they ask for more ships.

While were at it, they can send some of their guys to sit on the front lines to fight the Wraith too.

T'saria
March 5th, 2006, 07:45 AM
They should get a ship, chinese too... and then they can sit on the front lines and face the Ori or whatever just like us. Then we will see how much they ask for more ships.

While were at it, they can send some of their guys to sit on the front lines to fight the Wraith too.

good point! ha ha! they'll stop their whining real fast
when they have to stick their necks out!

Scarym1
March 5th, 2006, 09:37 AM
Great episode!!! I loved the Darth Vader line. Claudia Black's acting was so good. She can be serious!

I'm kinda glad they didn't have Daniel talking with Vala's mannerisms. True, it would have been funny, but what Vala was saying was not funny. I think it was a good idea to have some Daniel talking as Vala, but definitely not the serious scenes. The only thing I wish we had seen him say something like I'm pregnant... that would have been funny. But I think I would have been laughing way too much at Daniel as Vala that I wouldn't be getting the drama of the storyline.

Great post. :zelenka25:

I was all for seeing more of Daniel talking as Vala but now I agree with you. I think seeing more of Daniel as Vala would have lessen the seriousness of the scenes.

Love the line by Cam "Jackson is there something about you that I should know about." LOL

HoodatWhatzit
March 5th, 2006, 09:49 AM
I don't know if any fictional character "deserves" a storyline for their suffering. That seems to be mixing real life (storylines are given to actors, and CB didn't get shipped to the Ori galaxy) and fiction. I'm sure when weighing up the scales of justice and finding something to make up for her time there, no one in the Stargate universe would be thinking of storylines. Now, Vala deserved to be listened to, but as for the storyline, they could have given her one, but made it more show and not tell. Which would have accomplished the same thing.

I must have read your comments half a dozen times trying to get a handle on what you were saying. I would hope, personally, that fictional characters (and not actors) DO get storylines. The idea of adding up the screentime of the various actors or sorting out the season's storylines based on which actor has had an "episode" seems to miss the point of good storytelling to me. I think characters do "deserve" storylines if it those storylines are going to grow the characters in some way. My favorite character-focused eps have always been those that are pivotal moments for the characters. Isn't that the point of giving a character the major focus in an episode?

Whether we all like it or not, Vala is going to be a part of the Stargate universe. I needed to see what she'd been up to in the Orii universe and I think the episode did help me get a better feel for her (mainly because for 95% of the time we've seen her before now she has received the short end of the character development stick and been nothing more than comic relief). Did this episode win me over to the character? Not exactly but at least it gave me a little nudge.

That said, I totally agree with the "show, don't tell" comment. TPTB seem to have taken a lot of shortcuts this year and lots of stuff happens off-camera with talking heads taking the place of on-screen action. At least we actually got to see Vala in the Orii galaxy. This episode (as I've seen many people say as I've skimmed through this thread) was really a setup for the finale. This is one of those times when it might have been interesting to have Vala's story be an arc through the season. What if we'd been able to get little tidbits throughout the season via the communication device? Of course, given shooting schedules and such... that would have been an impossible task.

This ep had a "Meanwhile...back at the ranch..." sorta feel. The SGC needed the info about existence of a supergate and the impending Orii invasion. The writers chose to have Vala make contact "just in time" for the warning. Okay... its their call. Having done that, I don't mind that they tried to take the time to give Vala a storyline that focused on the hows,whens, and whys of her actions. If she's going to be THAT important to the story as a whole then yes, I think she deserves her moment in the spotlight.

Dani347
March 5th, 2006, 10:05 AM
I don't think MS imitating Vala would necessarily be funny. It wasn't funny when MS imitated the people in Lifeboat, and if he had been Vala in this episode, he would have been serious. There would just be a few touches -licking the plate, the ice-cream on his nose, asking how the whole situation with Darth Vader turned out.

Of course, that would limit CB from being able to act that part. That's why I think it wasn't a good idea to do the story this way. They should have found some way for Vala to communicate without being inside Daniel. Because it's a waste to have a situation like that, and limit a mimic like MS.

ParadoxRealities
March 5th, 2006, 10:09 AM
so what's the big deal with giving the Russians the gate? Can't we just fly the Daedalus to some random uninhabited planet with no real purpose and pick up that gate?

Deejay435
March 5th, 2006, 10:24 AM
A previous post mentioned that SG-1 wasn't involved emotionally with Vala's story, but I wonder if that's because it was Daniel that they were seeing tell the story. If they were actually seeing Vala, it might have been a little different.

I also wonder how much of an uproar would have ensued if the show had been only Vala on the planet with just a little bit of SGC at the beginning and end of the episode. Something tells me that even if it made for a better episode, a lot of people would not be happy that they didn't get to see more of SG-1.

I really don't think so. Remember it's Daniel that they're invested in, especially Teal'c and Sam. It's Daniel that they care about, and have a history with. I would think seeing Daniel going through the emotion of the story, seeing the tears in Daniel's eyes, hearing the fear in his voice-instead of Vala whom they have little emotional investment in-would make their reactions stronger to the story, not weaker.

It wasn't as if Daniel was there telling a second-hand story. The emotions, and worry, and fear that were being portrayed, as far as the observer saw were Daniel's.

And of course there would have been an uproar. I don't tune in to see a guest star-I tune in to see SG1. Like the team, I, as a viewer, have far less emotional investment in Vala than I do in Sam, Daniel, Teal'c and even by now, Mitchell. I have no interest in seeing an entire hour devoted only to her. Guest stars are not why I watch the show. The SG1 team is. Seeing them deal with the crisis of the universe is the appeal to me (and I imagine to a whole heck of a lot of fans,too). Frankly, I would have been almost as bored watching a show with only the flashbacks as I was watching Vala sit at a table telling, telling, telling, telling about the flashbacks.

ChillinTheMost
March 5th, 2006, 10:57 AM
It was a good episode, but I admit that I was bored in some parts. "What I Did On My Summer Vacation by Vala MalDoran".

Claudia did an amazing job, as usual.

While watching, I had wished that Michael Shanks had played the Vala/Daniel scenes set in the SGC, but I've read some decent arguments here for having Claudia play them, so either way is fine for me now.

It was nice to know what Vala had been through, but I think dragging it out for the entire hour was a bit too much. They might have made it move better if Vala had been a more integral part of the resistance and we had seen her involved in whatever sabotage was planned. If we had seen her involved in clandestine operations to sabotage the Ori and then seen the scene on the hill where nothing happened, I think it would have been even more poignant.

It was a good character study for Claudia to act in, and heaven knows she can sure do the acting for that, but it's not really what I expected. I only saw it once, so maybe the next time I watch, I won't be as disappointed. I kept expecting more stuff to happen, but now that I know it's just a character piece, maybe I'll enjoy it more next time.

Besides Claudia's wonderful acting, there were some great lines/scenes from the team. Ben, Amanda, Chris, Michael and Beau did great jobs with the few lines/scenes they were given.

Mattathias2.0
March 5th, 2006, 12:21 PM
Overall, excelent episode!

I have to say I have been loving episodes following Off The Grid...

I enjoyed the flashbacks. It gives us a good idea on the normal behavior and culture of their followers. Possibly even a way for us to connect with the Underground Resistence Movement against the Ori... and set traps in their galaxies! But all in due time.

I do agree they packed alot in one episode, but everything introduced in this episode will have implications for a long time... so I am happier, atleast for a little while, we have some really great storylines with our new enemy.

Mattathias

golfbooy
March 5th, 2006, 12:49 PM
zzz.....zzz.....zzzz......

Sorry, I just awoke from my Crusade-induced slumber. Did I miss anything important? Serious character development or interactions for Carter, Teal'c, or Daniel? No? Oh, good. Rare as it is these days, I'd hate to miss any of that.

Anyway, contrary to the above preface, I didn't absolutely hate Crusade. It was just exceptionally boring. And I'm one of those fans who usually loves the "talky" episodes. It's just that those talky episodes usually involve some sort of conflict for SG-1. This one, well, didn't. There were some splendid Mitchell/table scenes and a couple really good Carter/stool moments. And as so many others have already commented, Teal'c is the star of the show with his love of Star Wars.

But aside from picking out the one or two good lines each character had in Crusade, there is really not all that much to say. Nothing happened, nobody did anything, and even Vala's story was just a rehash of stuff we already knew about the Ori. And while it all played dramtically in Avalon and Origin, here I found it to be very flat. Sorry to all the Vala fans, but the sole point of the episode was to cram Claudia Black back into the story, even though it made little sense. I'm torn between thinking TPTB made the best of a bad situation and thinking that they just gave away a complete episode of their show. In the end, the most that I can say came out of Crusade was a patch job/rewrite/overhaul of Vala into a more workable player, although given the uneven characterization plaguing a number of characters this year, I'm dubious of giving in to this version of her completely.

Landry had a few good scenes in this one as did Colonel Chekov, though I'm sad to see the Chinese play for the stargate dealt with so swiftly and with such ease. This could have been a more contentious affair than we got, and it should have been the focus of its own episode. There was enough story there and enough groundwork laid in The Scourge to turn this into an interesting episode for Daniel, Landry, and for the Stargate Program itself. Of course, that would have been a tough episode to pull off without the head of Homeworld Security, which is a problem in and of itself. Still, I'd have preferred just about anything else to come from this than yet another blasted spaceship. Here's hoping that it gets blown to little tiny bits next week along with its brethren.

As for the rest, meh. Good stuff with Sam at breakfast, in her lab, and with Vala and the ice cream. Michael Shanks does a pretty decent Vala (there's a joke or four there), Teal'c stood around as well as ever, and Mitchell is apparetly apprenticing under him to learn the wallpaper job. The characters in Vala's story? Who cares. They're all dead or soon will be. What's the point in bothering with them at all.

That last scene in the briefing room didn't help with my impression of the episode either. A brief line of explanation about what the Tok'ra, Jaffa, and Asgard are doing to help fight the Ori is just a waste. A full half of this episode could have been a member of SG-1 each going to one of our allies with Vala's intel. A montage of Mitchell standing amidst a room full of Tok'ra, Sam surrounded by little gray Asgard, and Teal'c planning with the Jaffa in the council chamber would have helped build the drama of next week's finale and given the main characters something to do while Vala/Daniel relays the rest of her sob story to Landry.

So like I said, meh. I don't hate it, I don't love it. I just don't really care one way or the other. Hopefully I'll find something more in Camelot. Bring it on.

Jace021903
March 5th, 2006, 01:10 PM
I enjoyed the episode. I thought it was well written and well acted--turns out I *could* just sit and listen to Claudia Black read the phone book--:vala:

I think this episode gives Vala some depth. I thought her relationship with her husband was very sweet and sad. She seem to come to care about him in her own way--trying to get him to stay home when the explosions were supposed to occur and being really saddened that he was going to change into a different person when he returned from war. And the lines about part of her wishing the baby didn't survive and realizing that part of her did want the baby--good stuff. I loved the body language at the end when she puts her hands protectively over her stomach while facing down the staff weapon.

I appreciated the funny parts too--my favorite was Vala beating up the bread dough. :)

As this was truly a Vala episode, Sg-1 didn't have tons to do, but they were all very good in the parts they had. MS was spot on with Vala's facial expressions. Landry rocked. Again. I really like Beau Bridges in this part.

Looking forward to next week...

Skydiver
March 5th, 2006, 01:12 PM
I don't think MS imitating Vala would necessarily be funny. It wasn't funny when MS imitated the people in Lifeboat, and if he had been Vala in this episode, he would have been serious. There would just be a few touches -licking the plate, the ice-cream on his nose, asking how the whole situation with Darth Vader turned out.

Of course, that would limit CB from being able to act that part. That's why I think it wasn't a good idea to do the story this way. They should have found some way for Vala to communicate without being inside Daniel. Because it's a waste to have a situation like that, and limit a mimic like MS.


exactly. one reason they couldn't have MS immitating vala is because it would eliminate the sole purpose of hte episode, to bring vala and the actress who plays her to the front and center. it wasn't necessarily as much telling vala's story as it was to establish claudia black as the new focus of the show

Formerhost
March 5th, 2006, 01:36 PM
exactly. one reason they couldn't have MS immitating vala is because it would eliminate the sole purpose of hte episode, to bring vala and the actress who plays her to the front and center. it wasn't necessarily as much telling vala's story as it was to establish claudia black as the new focus of the show

Don't forget that in Avalon pt. 2 and Origin we had only miliseconds of the original Harrid and Salis and most of the time we saw Daniel and Vala. Why are you always so negative about Claudia Black? It's really unfair... :(

Skydiver
March 5th, 2006, 01:45 PM
not claudia. claudia is simply doing her job. Vala however....i didn't care for vala back in prometheus unbound, didn't care for her character during the early part of s9 and i don't have much faith in these writers redeeming her for s10

others like her though. good for you. have fun and enjoy. it's good that someone is going to find something they like and, given all indications, those that love vala will find plenty to love in the coming season.

it's good that the show is gaining some new fans. they just might make up for the ones that it's lost in the past year.

this episode was created and conceived to focus on vala, just as meridian was created to facilitate daniel's departure and Jonas' inclusion into the show.

valaCB
March 5th, 2006, 02:06 PM
I appreciated the funny parts too--my favorite was Vala beating up the bread dough.

It was sooo funny :hammond03: :lol:

Dani347
March 5th, 2006, 02:07 PM
"What I Did On My Summer Vacation by Vala MalDoran".


"I Went to the Ori Galaxy and All I Got Was This Lousy Baby"

nccjones
March 5th, 2006, 02:19 PM
Not to mention, that was a heck of a bomb she dropped on them. Think about it 1)They find out that their cobbled together comm device works, 2) Vala is alive, 3)She's pregnant sans partner, 4)Married?!? 4)The Ori have a freakin' armada, and 5)They're on the way, which means 6)There's a super-gate out there somewhere.

If it was me, I'd be a bit shell shocked from all that.

Actually, I got the impression that they didn't care about her predicament. It didn't look like shock to me. They pretty much wanted her to hurry up and tell her story probably because Mitchell was hungry and it was meatloaf night.

Skydiver
March 5th, 2006, 02:19 PM
"I Went to the Ori Galaxy and All I Got Was This Lousy Baby"
lolol

PG15
March 5th, 2006, 02:23 PM
It was sooo funny :hammond03: :lol:

It definately had a nice beat to it. :D

And I don't know what's this about "telling not showing". I think they showed plenty.

the fifth man
March 5th, 2006, 02:23 PM
Don't forget that in Avalon pt. 2 and Origin we had only miliseconds of the original Harrid and Salis and most of the time we saw Daniel and Vala. Why are you always so negative about Claudia Black? It's really unfair... :(

I think she's going to do a fine job next season. And personally, I don't think she is "taking over" this show. She's simply becoming a part of it. And that is just fine by me.:)

Formerhost
March 5th, 2006, 02:24 PM
Actually, I got the impression that they didn't care about her predicament. It didn't look like shock to me. They pretty much wanted her to hurry up and tell her story probably because Mitchell was hungry and it was meatloaf night.

Well, if it's true what you just said, it's a proof that they're nothing more but cold blooded, hard-hearted *******s.

the fifth man
March 5th, 2006, 02:26 PM
Well, if it's true what you just said, it's a proof that they're nothing more but cold blooded *******s.

I don't think it was that they didn't care at all. She just needs to grow on them all a bit more.:)

Formerhost
March 5th, 2006, 02:30 PM
I don't think it was that they didn't care at all. She just needs to grow on them all a bit more.:)

Well, I'm sure each of them has something from the past they would love not to remember about, so I think I don't agree here... :)

nccjones
March 5th, 2006, 02:37 PM
I found it disturbing that Tomin was happy he got conscripted by the Ori.

Yeah, I said the same thing in my previous post. I compare Tomin or any followers of the Ori to Al Qaeda. They are on some kind of Jihad....kill all who do not believe in the Ori.

the fifth man
March 5th, 2006, 02:43 PM
Yeah, I said the same thing in my previous post. I compare Tomin or any followers of the Ori to Al Qaeda. They are on some kind of Jihad....kill all who do not believe in the Ori.

Yeah, but only because they truly believe what they are doing is right. People like Tomin were raised to believe in the power and goodness of the Ori. They know nothing else.

valaCB
March 5th, 2006, 02:45 PM
And I don't know what's this about "telling not showing". I think they showed plenty.

What do you mean? Who showed what??? :weiranime33:

Formerhost
March 5th, 2006, 02:46 PM
Yeah, but only because they truly believe what they are doing is right. People like Tomin were raised to believe in the power and goodness of the Ori. They know nothing else.

Exactly.

cafine_us
March 5th, 2006, 02:50 PM
What do you mean? Who showed what??? :weiranime33:
TPTB showed what was going on in the Ori galaxy in preparation for the war. We could watch it instead of just hearing Vala talk.

nccjones
March 5th, 2006, 02:51 PM
Yeah, but only because they truly believe what they are doing is right. People like Tomin were raised to believe in the power and goodness of the Ori. They know nothing else.

ITA. Al Qaeda is the same way. They literally believe that all who do not follow the Koran (the infedels) need to be eliminated. I just find a very parallel story here.

I think this storyline is a very touchy one which is very close to what is really happening in our world today regarding Christianity and Muslim. But even though they are telling the story, they are veering away from any mention of it. Mitchell saying Arthur? Pretty much everyone expected him to say Jesus, but they steered from that story line too.

PG15
March 5th, 2006, 03:06 PM
TPTB showed what was going on in the Ori galaxy in preparation for the war. We could watch it instead of just hearing Vala talk.

Why not have both?

Besides, how would we watch it if none of our main characters are there? As far as I can tell Stargate is a, how do you call it, limited ominiscent point of view kind of show.

jckfan55
March 5th, 2006, 03:15 PM
Great post. :zelenka25:

I was all for seeing more of Daniel talking as Vala but now I agree with you. I think seeing more of Daniel as Vala would have lessen the seriousness of the scenes.

Love the line by Cam "Jackson is there something about you that I should know about." LOL
I don't think it had to have had that effect. We've seen some pretty touching "Daniel inhabited by others" scenes in Lifeboat. MS is a good enough actor, IMHO, to have pulled it off.

Dani347
March 5th, 2006, 03:25 PM
I think a better way to do this would somehow let the team go through the gate and come upon Vala on another planet. Maybe a planet in this galaxy that had been converted to the Ori. Even have Vala in dire straits (maybe they could come upon her chained up), while SG1 was there. Make them a real part of the show.

PG15
March 5th, 2006, 03:31 PM
That could work...but it would have a lot of explaining to do about how Vala got there in the first place.

Also, the entire episode would be completely different since there would not be anyone like Tomin who had been an Ori-believer since childhood, and most likely no ship-buildings since that would happen in the Ori home galaxy.

Dani347
March 5th, 2006, 04:13 PM
Well, it was tender and all, but was Tomin really necessary? It just seemed that they put him in there to stretch out the story. I think, especially for the second to last episode of the season, having a talky episode (with the only action happening with someone who is not yet a regular and a bunch of one time guest stars) is the wrong way to go. The regulars should be an active part of the show. Heck, even if it's one regular, that's fine. But, imo, at least one person who's name is part of the main credits should have a major part in the episode. All the episodes. I'm sure they could have given CB a good acting opportunity and lots of angst and all that, without the entire episode being her sitting down talking and flashbacks, all to pretty much info dump the points that she got pregnant and the Ori are building ships.

And, then, they could have slowly brought in some aspects later on, woven more delicately into the story. Like, what if Tomin came in a later episode (maybe turned into a Prior?) and Vala reacted and when asked, she said that he was her husband?

chancewc64
March 5th, 2006, 04:36 PM
I missed both the stargate sg-1 and atlantis episodes because i was out of town and the hotel didnt have SCI-FI, stupide hotels, what happened in the shows. also if anyone knows what happen in battlestar galatica?

Agent_Dark
March 5th, 2006, 04:51 PM
I don't think it had to have had that effect. We've seen some pretty touching "Daniel inhabited by others" scenes in Lifeboat. MS is a good enough actor, IMHO, to have pulled it off.
However, CB is also a very good actor. I actually prefer the way they did it (ie have CB there for most of the time and MS only for a few bits). Vala will be a regular character in s10. It doesn't matter if you like that or hate it, its gonna happen ;) Which means they need to establish Vala as a character in her own right. Having MS play Vala in those breifing room scenes would not have helped in that regard - all it would have done was further reinforce that Vala is an extension of Daniel.

Xmen583
March 5th, 2006, 04:59 PM
I missed both the stargate sg-1 and atlantis episodes because i was out of town and the hotel didnt have SCI-FI, stupide hotels, what happened in the shows. also if anyone knows what happen in battlestar galatica?

there is there going to be a repeating ep soon as the season over on march 10.

some of the hotels don't have cable, some has cable. you should thought of recording it, i recording the tape on stargate sg-1 and atlantis till i buy a DVD Case.

LORD MONK
March 5th, 2006, 05:07 PM
What happened. We are screwed like always and the only way we can win is if this ep. is followed by a two parter cliff hanger that ends with us pulling something out of our butt in the last four minutes in the second part of the two parter.

PG15
March 5th, 2006, 05:07 PM
Well, it was tender and all, but was Tomin really necessary? It just seemed that they put him in there to stretch out the story. I think, especially for the second to last episode of the season, having a talky episode (with the only action happening with someone who is not yet a regular and a bunch of one time guest stars) is the wrong way to go. The regulars should be an active part of the show. Heck, even if it's one regular, that's fine. But, imo, at least one person who's name is part of the main credits should have a major part in the episode. All the episodes. I'm sure they could have given CB a good acting opportunity and lots of angst and all that, without the entire episode being her sitting down talking and flashbacks, all to pretty much info dump the points that she got pregnant and the Ori are building ships.

Tomin was absolutely necessary since it showed a more human side of Vala that people's been yammering about since the beginning.

Besides, look at all the other penultimate episodes we've been given over the years:

Politics - clipshow
1969 - standalone, a little action at the end.
Crystal Skull - standalone, pretty much no action.
Double Jeopardy - Action-a-plenty
Meridian - not much action, but Danny dies
Prophecy - A bit of action
Lost City Part 1 - a bit of action at the beginning, but pretty much all set up. Inauguration was a clip show.
Moebius Part 1 - Not much action as I remembered.

Really, if you define action as explosions and fighting (which I don't know if you are), then Crusade is pretty much par for the course.

In this case the main characters pretty much had to be sacrificed to get the info dump, since we'll probably be needing it, not just for Camelot, but for what happens to Vala next season.


And, then, they could have slowly brought in some aspects later on, woven more delicately into the story. Like, what if Tomin came in a later episode (maybe turned into a Prior?) and Vala reacted and when asked, she said that he was her husband?

I don't know...a lot of people will be complaining that it's out of the blue or the writers pulled it right out of their butts. Or that it was like a soap opera or something.

Dani347
March 5th, 2006, 05:09 PM
However, CB is also a very good actor. I actually prefer the way they did it (ie have CB there for most of the time and MS only for a few bits). Vala will be a regular character in s10. It doesn't matter if you like that or hate it, its gonna happen ;) Which means they need to establish Vala as a character in her own right. Having MS play Vala in those breifing room scenes would not have helped in that regard - all it would have done was further reinforce that Vala is an extension of Daniel.

But, Vala's been established as a character. Maybe if she had only had one episode before this, I would agree. But, everyone knows that Vala is not an extension of Daniel. And, in the format they told, there were the scenes on the planet that gave CB a lot of opportunity to act, and I think gave her better characterization than sitting in the briefing room. So, it wouldn't be like she wouldn't have been in the episode at all, or even that she would have had a minor part. Her part would still be big.

Or, like I said, they never should have gone with the Vala in Daniel's body route.

PG15

I don't know...a lot of people will be complaining that it's out of the blue or the writers pulled it right out of their butts. Or that it was like a soap opera or something.

Well, to put it bluntly, I don't care what a lot of people say. Everything I say is how I think things should go. Which is how I believe everyone posts when they say something works or doesn't. They're thinking about themselves, not what a lot of people would think. Plus, Vala could just have mentioned that she tricked someone into thinking he was her husband, so it wouldn't come out of the blue. It would have been established in this episode.

And, I think we also have a different definition of action. I don't mean big shoot em up space ships action adventure type thing. I mean, an episode that involves a majority of showing instead of telling(this episode had some showing, but it had a heck of a lot of telling, too).

And, to use your argument, a lot of people hate the clip shows.

And, I think they could have shown Vala's humanity in other ways. Just her seriousness in the episode would have helped to show that.

Skydiver
March 5th, 2006, 05:27 PM
Yeah, but only because they truly believe what they are doing is right. People like Tomin were raised to believe in the power and goodness of the Ori. They know nothing else.
exactly. and tomin and the others likely believe that if they die killing the non-believers it's an immediate one way trip to 'heaven' which is ascension. and by the time they find out that the ori are scamming them, it'll be too late, they'll be dead.

not to drag too much real life politics into it, but this same fervor is why people are willing to blow htemselves up to kill infidels, it's an immediate trip to paradise.

mgehman
March 5th, 2006, 05:36 PM
not to drag too much real life politics into it, but this same fervor is why people are willing to blow htemselves up to kill infidels, it's an immediate trip to paradise.
No, no, don't go there. Not the place for this kind of discussion. I like my fantasy,...fantasy and my reality,...reality.

Skydiver
March 5th, 2006, 05:42 PM
very true. and it's only a discussion point as a comparison to the futility to fighting the ori and thier armies.

these aren't a bunch of enslaved folks held under the thumb of a mean and nasty over dressed style monger...they're passionate believers that would rather die than even consider another alternative. a few members of a resisitence? sure, there will be some. but over all, the only way to 'win' this war is to slaughter countless thousands. and even if htey find some way to kill all the ori only, there'll still be thousands of planets full of millions of people that are going to hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, those that killed their gods

ther'es no way to 'win' this.

no matter what the sgc does, most of one galaxy and a good chunk of this one will hate them for it.

the followers of the ori are so totally indoctrinated that they will never accept that the ori are bad, heck we only have orlin and daniel's word that they are bad

that's one reason i'm not fond of the ori in general. it's a lose/lose storyline

Tok'Ra Hostess
March 5th, 2006, 05:57 PM
I'm sure the complete lack of 'splosions will make this a yawner for many fans but for me this was a good story. Intelligent. It kind of put me in mind of B5 for quality and since I am as blind to B5's faults as an Ori believer is to any other point of view, then you know that I liked the ep. :D

I liked Vala very much in this ep. I'll take this Vala every single coming episode, thank you very much. :)

And, yes, I did very much enjoy her opening scene. :D But that's definitely because the humor was limited to just that one scene.

Sam, not so much this time. Why did the writers sacrifice her natural fellow feeling for her enthusiasm? Couldn't she have shown both? :confused: She could at the very least have caught herself, halfway through her techno-delight, realizing that she was being an unfeeling ... person... and put a hand out to Vala and asked if she were alright. Would that have been so hard? It's frustrating for me, that the characters aren't used to their maximum potential, especially when they have little enough screen time in an ep. (And poor Teal'c; what he got.:( )

I enjoyed the B-plot concerning the fate of the SGC and how Landry figured out what was really going on (he put me in mind of Commander Vimes of the Watch:P Discworld by Terry Pratchett). I would have liked the suspense of the Gate's fate to drag on for another ep, but, oh well....

I didn't see Servis-as-an-Agent-of-Good coming, nor his demise at the hands of gentle Tomin.(The demise didn't surprise me, just that Tomin demised him.)

Tomin really puts a face to the believers that are coming to fight, here. The Jaffa were pretty much always presented as just so much cannon fodder throughout the series, but this time we are getting to know the enemy's footsoldiers right from the start. Kudos, PTB. Please make something of this.

I thought it was interesting how not every town has a religious leader, and that Priors are not all in excellent health, either. What was with Scarface? You'd think he'd at least get free health coverage....

Agent_Dark
March 5th, 2006, 07:08 PM
But, Vala's been established as a character. Maybe if she had only had one episode before this, I would agree. But, everyone knows that Vala is not an extension of Daniel. And, in the format they told, there were the scenes on the planet that gave CB a lot of opportunity to act, and I think gave her better characterization than sitting in the briefing room. So, it wouldn't be like she wouldn't have been in the episode at all, or even that she would have had a minor part. Her part would still be big.

Or, like I said, they never should have gone with the Vala in Daniel's body route.
Well there are alot of people who do see Vala as simply being an extension of Daniel, considering all the complaints about the 'Daniel/Vala Hour' for the first 5 eps ;)

Skydiver
March 5th, 2006, 07:33 PM
Well there are alot of people who do see Vala as simply being an extension of Daniel, considering all the complaints about the 'Daniel/Vala Hour' for the first 5 eps ;)
maybe not extension of, but certainly the other half of

this is pretty much the first time she's had to stand on her own and not exist solely for her schtick

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
March 5th, 2006, 07:52 PM
this is the first time we don't see a "to be continued..." at the end of the episode i guess it is a two part episode but not really one. I swear this is the best season i ever seen besides the first season. They did an excellent job this year.

Dani347
March 5th, 2006, 08:25 PM
Well there are alot of people who do see Vala as simply being an extension of Daniel, considering all the complaints about the 'Daniel/Vala Hour' for the first 5 eps ;)

Again, just don't go with the idea of Vala in Daniel's body. Find some way to tell the story with Vala as Vala. It would be like doing a musical episode of a tv show with someone in the cast that's known to be a singer, and not having them sing. Or, hiring a tap dancer for a tap dancing movie and not letting them tap dance. Actually, it would be more like hiring a tap dancer for a tap dancing movie, having him play a tap dancer, and then having someone else do all the actual tap dancing.

And, I'm sure there are a lot of people who already felt Vala was an interesting character in her own right. And,possibly a lot of people who loved how Vala was in the first 5 episodes, and were horribly disappointed in how her character was written in this episode, as well as a lot of people may just hate Vala and hate a whole episode with her as the main character period, as well as a lot of people who loved Daniel and Vala together and hated not having him interact with her again. There are a lot of different scenarios that a lot of different people could like or not like. I don't think there's any way to know if any one group outnumbered the others. But, either way, I think that they could have found a way to showcase Vala, have her story told, have SG1 a part of the episode, without putting Vala in Daniel's body.

the fifth man
March 5th, 2006, 08:54 PM
very true. and it's only a discussion point as a comparison to the futility to fighting the ori and thier armies.

these aren't a bunch of enslaved folks held under the thumb of a mean and nasty over dressed style monger...they're passionate believers that would rather die than even consider another alternative. a few members of a resisitence? sure, there will be some. but over all, the only way to 'win' this war is to slaughter countless thousands. and even if htey find some way to kill all the ori only, there'll still be thousands of planets full of millions of people that are going to hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, those that killed their gods

ther'es no way to 'win' this.

no matter what the sgc does, most of one galaxy and a good chunk of this one will hate them for it.

the followers of the ori are so totally indoctrinated that they will never accept that the ori are bad, heck we only have orlin and daniel's word that they are bad

that's one reason i'm not fond of the ori in general. it's a lose/lose storyline

That's kind of funny. For those same reasons, that's why I am fond of the Ori storyline. I can't wait to see how we deal with this problem of epic proportions. It is going to be probably the hardest struggle we've ever faced on this show, and I can't wait to experience it. To each their own, right?:)

the fifth man
March 5th, 2006, 08:55 PM
this is the first time we don't see a "to be continued..." at the end of the episode i guess it is a two part episode but not really one. I swear this is the best season i ever seen besides the first season. They did an excellent job this year.

They definitely have done a fine job this season. That's why I'm so pumped for season 10 too.:)

NotAscended
March 5th, 2006, 09:34 PM
these aren't a bunch of enslaved folks held under the thumb of a mean and nasty over dressed style monger...they're passionate believers that would rather die than even consider another alternative. a few members of a resisitence? sure, there will be some. but over all, the only way to 'win' this war is to slaughter countless thousands. and even if htey find some way to kill all the ori only, there'll still be thousands of planets full of millions of people that are going to hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, those that killed their gods

ther'es no way to 'win' this.

no matter what the sgc does, most of one galaxy and a good chunk of this one will hate them for it.

the followers of the ori are so totally indoctrinated that they will never accept that the ori are bad, heck we only have orlin and daniel's word that they are bad

that's one reason i'm not fond of the ori in general. it's a lose/lose storyline

You make some really good points about the difference between the Ori and the other foes that the SGC has faced. However, I'm just hoping that the writers have set the bar higher for this storyline by making it appear to us, the viewers, to be a no-win situation. Throughout the series, we've always been led to believe that SG1 will somehow find a way to save the day, in part because the whole series followed upon a film in which we did defeat the enemy. I like to think of this storyline as "upping the ante" and really testing humanity's desire for freedom in the face of a seemingly unwinnable war. In this way, it's a lot closer to the early seasons of the series in which it was harder to see how the Gou'ald could be defeated, but now with a much more complicated enemy.

jasnell
March 5th, 2006, 11:41 PM
The one really good thing that this episode did was demonstrate that the majority of the followers of the Ori are generally ordinary people and are not all superhuman priors. The episode also drew a number of parallels between the Ori and the Goa'uld... namely, their use of their technological superiority to enslave a race of people to do their bidding. Just as winning the minds of Jaffa was key to overturning the Goa'uld, winning the minds of those who follow the Ori will be the key to stopping them... especially given that the Ori draw their power from those who worship them.

Hatcheter
March 6th, 2006, 01:43 AM
It's been said already, but I think it bears repeating:

Seeing Vala when she possessed Daniel is thematically consistent with what was established for this situation at the beginning of the season.

We the viewers get to see the person who is really there, not the bodies that are being inhabited. To complain about Cladia Black being there instead of Michael Shanks obligates you to complain about Claudia and Michael getting all the screen time in 'Avalon part II' and 'Origin', instead of the young actors hired to play Harrid and Sallis.

It was important for Claudia to be the one sitting in that chair. For the viewers, to reacquaint us with a character we haven't seen since last summer, and to make blatantly clear who was doing the talking. It was also important for the acting, to convey everything that needed to be seen. Having Michael do all the 'present' scenes wouldn't have been effective, I think, not to mention making it a much more demanding shoot. Sure, it's a shame that he got such limited screen time in this episode, but over the last nine years, there have been plenty of episodes where certain actors had a limited presence. Besides, there have been plenty of Daniel-heavy episodes this season, it was his turn to sit back for once. :p

All-in-all, a very good episode, one that demanded an almost immediate rewatching from me. (A role Galactica occupied the last two weeks, but didn't merit this time).

wikeja
March 6th, 2006, 03:41 AM
I must say, after seeing this ep, I want to black light the borrom of my toilet seat. (Ori ships):) On a serious note, although a bit slow at times, I enjoyed the ep.

Formerhost
March 6th, 2006, 04:13 AM
Well, it was tender and all, but was Tomin really necessary? It just seemed that they put him in there to stretch out the story. I think, especially for the second to last episode of the season, having a talky episode (with the only action happening with someone who is not yet a regular and a bunch of one time guest stars) is the wrong way to go. The regulars should be an active part of the show. Heck, even if it's one regular, that's fine. But, imo, at least one person who's name is part of the main credits should have a major part in the episode. All the episodes. I'm sure they could have given CB a good acting opportunity and lots of angst and all that, without the entire episode being her sitting down talking and flashbacks, all to pretty much info dump the points that she got pregnant and the Ori are building ships.

And, then, they could have slowly brought in some aspects later on, woven more delicately into the story. Like, what if Tomin came in a later episode (maybe turned into a Prior?) and Vala reacted and when asked, she said that he was her husband?

Tomin was necessary, as he's part of Vala's story arc in season 10 :)

wolverine_nl
March 6th, 2006, 04:14 AM
I agree on that it was the good thing to do, to let CB sit in the chair, it was the same in the beginning of the season and is consistant this way.

Can't wait for the last episode!! :cameron:

valaCB
March 6th, 2006, 06:24 AM
TPTB showed what was going on in the Ori galaxy in preparation for the war. We could watch it instead of just hearing Vala talk.
OK, I see :D
Me - i love seeing Claudia in this episode, talking and acting.


It was important for Claudia to be the one sitting in that chair. For the viewers, to reacquaint us with a character we haven't seen since last summer, and to make blatantly clear who was doing the talking. It was also important for the acting, to convey everything that needed to be seen. Having Michael do all the 'present' scenes wouldn't have been effective, I think, not to mention making it a much more demanding shoot. Sure, it's a shame that he got such limited screen time in this episode, but over the last nine years, there have been plenty of episodes where certain actors had a limited presence. Besides, there have been plenty of Daniel-heavy episodes this season, it was his turn to sit back for once.

I agree :)

FallenAngelII
March 6th, 2006, 06:35 AM
As someone already said: Nobody should give a crap whether or not it would've been better to have Daniel portray Vala-in-Daniel.

Because in "Avalon (Part II)" and "Origin", it was Claudia Black and Michael shanks portraying Daniel and Vala in those two Ori galaxy people. So unless you'd rather have had 2 episodes where the only glimpses we'd get of Michael and Claudia were of their lifeless bodies in the SGC, stop whining.

scarimor
March 6th, 2006, 07:31 AM
I must say, after seeing this ep, I want to black light the borrom of my toilet seat. (Ori ships):)

lol! This is the second time a TV sci-fi space-ship has manifested loo-properties - the Starship Voyager resembled a toilet seat too. The shape of things to come... ;)

Zoser
March 6th, 2006, 07:32 AM
I don't think it had to have had that effect. We've seen some pretty touching "Daniel inhabited by others" scenes in Lifeboat. MS is a good enough actor, IMHO, to have pulled it off.
We all, of course, remember 'Holiday' and Ma'chello. The boy can act.

Zoser
March 6th, 2006, 07:38 AM
Well, it was tender and all, but was Tomin really necessary? It just seemed that they put him in there to stretch out the story. I think, especially for the second to last episode of the season, having a talky episode (with the only action happening with someone who is not yet a regular and a bunch of one time guest stars) is the wrong way to go. The regulars should be an active part of the show. Heck, even if it's one regular, that's fine. But, imo, at least one person who's name is part of the main credits should have a major part in the episode. All the episodes. I'm sure they could have given CB a good acting opportunity and lots of angst and all that, without the entire episode being her sitting down talking and flashbacks, all to pretty much info dump the points that she got pregnant and the Ori are building ships.

And, then, they could have slowly brought in some aspects later on, woven more delicately into the story. Like, what if Tomin came in a later episode (maybe turned into a Prior?) and Vala reacted and when asked, she said that he was her husband?
Who exactly are building the ships? Is it the medieval cannon fodder or are there lots and lots of Ori (or a few moving in mystical ways)? There is lots of metal to smelt for the hulls, lots of advanced systems in these ships guts to construct and test. The locals do not look equipped to even begin to build them even given the blue prints.

DEM
March 6th, 2006, 07:53 AM
Because in "Avalon (Part II)" and "Origin", it was Claudia Black and Michael shanks portraying Daniel and Vala in those two Ori galaxy people. So unless you'd rather have had 2 episodes where the only glimpses we'd get of Michael and Claudia were of their lifeless bodies in the SGC, stop whining.Nice way to: 1) Miss the point, and 2) be rude about it.

valaCB
March 6th, 2006, 09:04 AM
We all, of course, remember 'Holiday' and Ma'chello. The boy can act.
Yup . He sure does :hammondanime01:

Dani347
March 6th, 2006, 10:35 AM
It's been said already, but I think it bears repeating:

Seeing Vala when she possessed Daniel is thematically consistent with what was established for this situation at the beginning of the season.

We the viewers get to see the person who is really there, not the bodies that are being inhabited. To complain about Cladia Black being there instead of Michael Shanks obligates you to complain about Claudia and Michael getting all the screen time in 'Avalon part II' and 'Origin', instead of the young actors hired to play Harrid and Sallis.

It was important for Claudia to be the one sitting in that chair. For the viewers, to reacquaint us with a character we haven't seen since last summer, and to make blatantly clear who was doing the talking. It was also important for the acting, to convey everything that needed to be seen. Having Michael do all the 'present' scenes wouldn't have been effective, I think, not to mention making it a much more demanding shoot. Sure, it's a shame that he got such limited screen time in this episode, but over the last nine years, there have been plenty of episodes where certain actors had a limited presence. Besides, there have been plenty of Daniel-heavy episodes this season, it was his turn to sit back for once. :p

All-in-all, a very good episode, one that demanded an almost immediate rewatching from me. (A role Galactica occupied the last two weeks, but didn't merit this time).


First, this isn't about his lack of screen time. If they had gone a different route where Vala was there as Vala, and Daniel was sitting with the rest of them (who, to my mind barely got any more screen time than he did, if they even got anymore) I would not have these objections. No, I wouldn't enjoy it as much, but I wouldn't say that they missed an obvious opportunity. But, please, don't assume that just because there are complaints with how the episode was written or what MS did, it just comes down to wanting him to have more screentime.

Second, I disagree that objecting to not seeing MS playing Vala provided that they set up the situation of Vala being in Daniel's body, means that you must also object to seeing MS and CB instead the one time no one will ever see them again guest stars. Two different things. No, I don't think you are supposed to see the person who's inside the body. That technique in Avalon had (imo) nothing to do with what we're supposed to see (we're supposed to assume that we're seeing what the characters see), but everything to do with the fact that you don't have a minor guest star have the bulk of screentime over one of the main stars and a special guest star. So, it's not because we see who's inhabiting the body (why would we see that?) , the reason why we saw MS and CB in Avalon instead of the people who played Harrid and Sallis is simply because the actors who played Harrid and Sallis weren't important. MS and CB were.

And, like I said, they had all the scenes on the planet itself. Having MS play Vala at the SGC would not have taken away CB's opportunity to act, or take away the chance to re-establish Vala as a character, imo. Because she would have had the chance to do some fine acting on the planet. Also, MS would not be playing Daniel. He'd be playing Vala. So, after the initial thinking of him as Daniel, we'd think of him as Vala. Just like in Lifeboat, I never thought of MS as Daniel. He was Martise, Tryan, and Keenan. Or, in Holiday, CJ spent part of the episode being Jack, and I had no problem thinking of him as Jack. And, when RDA was Daniel briefly, he was Daniel.

Or, like I've said, they could have just sidestepped the whole thing by not putting Vala in Daniel's body. Let some walk on actor playing a scientist or something be the one to have Vala inhabit his body, if they couldn't think of any other way to do it. Or, find some other way to tell the story without Vala having to be in anyone's body. Who knows what kind of technology the Ori have, or tptb could invent? They could have had some kind of technology that allowed Vala to come back as a holographic image, which would be kind of like being out of phase, only they could see her and hear her. And, I'm just throwing out ideas. These may not be good ones, or viable ones, but there are other ways they could have done it that wouldn't require the tactic of Vala being inside Daniel's body. But, as long as they set up a situation where anyone is in Daniel's body, I will always feel it's a mistake not to let MS play it. Again, it comes down to the idea of not letting a singer sing in a musical where the singer is acting the part of a singer.

Formerhost
March 6th, 2006, 11:28 AM
First, this isn't about his lack of screen time. If they had gone a different route where Vala was there as Vala, and Daniel was sitting with the rest of them (who, to my mind barely got any more screen time than he did, if they even got anymore) I would not have these objections. No, I wouldn't enjoy it as much, but I wouldn't say that they missed an obvious opportunity. But, please, don't assume that just because there are complaints with how the episode was written or what MS did, it just comes down to wanting him to have more screentime.

Second, I disagree that objecting to not seeing MS playing Vala provided that they set up the situation of Vala being in Daniel's body, means that you must also object to seeing MS and CB instead the one time no one will ever see them again guest stars. Two different things. No, I don't think you are supposed to see the person who's inside the body. That technique in Avalon had (imo) nothing to do with what we're supposed to see (we're supposed to assume that we're seeing what the characters see), but everything to do with the fact that you don't have a minor guest star have the bulk of screentime over one of the main stars and a special guest star. So, it's not because we see who's inhabiting the body (why would we see that?) , the reason why we saw MS and CB in Avalon instead of the people who played Harrid and Sallis is simply because the actors who played Harrid and Sallis weren't important. MS and CB were.

And, like I said, they had all the scenes on the planet itself. Having MS play Vala at the SGC would not have taken away CB's opportunity to act, or take away the chance to re-establish Vala as a character, imo. Because she would have had the chance to do some fine acting on the planet. Also, MS would not be playing Daniel. He'd be playing Vala. So, after the initial thinking of him as Daniel, we'd think of him as Vala. Just like in Lifeboat, I never thought of MS as Daniel. He was Martise, Tryan, and Keenan. Or, in Holiday, CJ spent part of the episode being Jack, and I had no problem thinking of him as Jack. And, when RDA was Daniel briefly, he was Daniel.

Or, like I've said, they could have just sidestepped the whole thing by not putting Vala in Daniel's body. Let some walk on actor playing a scientist or something be the one to have Vala inhabit his body, if they couldn't think of any other way to do it. Or, find some other way to tell the story without Vala having to be in anyone's body. Who knows what kind of technology the Ori have, or tptb could invent? They could have had some kind of technology that allowed Vala to come back as a holographic image, which would be kind of like being out of phase, only they could see her and hear her. And, I'm just throwing out ideas. These may not be good ones, or viable ones, but there are other ways they could have done it that wouldn't require the tactic of Vala being inside Daniel's body. But, as long as they set up a situation where anyone is in Daniel's body, I will always feel it's a mistake not to let MS play it. Again, it comes down to the idea of not letting a singer sing in a musical where the singer is acting the part of a singer.

I'm with Hatcheter and some other people here. Why change something what was established at the beginning of the season? That would be completely illogical and wrong. And it doesn't matter that parts of Salis and Harrid were played by minor guest stars. Rob Cooper's decision in all these cases (Avalon pt. 2, Origin and now Crusade) was perfectly right.

Dani347
March 6th, 2006, 11:51 AM
Because I don't think the pertinent reasoning in Avalon was that the audience is supposed to see the person who is inside the body. If that was the reason, then I'd agree, but I think the reason RCC wrote it that way is because of the actors. So, to me, it is changing things to write it this way. If someone minor guest star played a character that inhabited Daniel's body, or Teal'c's, or Mitchell's or Sam's, I bet that we would see MS, CJ, BB, or AT playing the part. With maybe some brief scenes to remind people, that they're someone else, like reflections in mirrors. However, if one of the main characters is inhabiting someone else's body (played by someone who is a minor guest star) we would see the actor who is a part of the show. I don't think this has anything to do with a precedent established in an earlier episode. I think it had everything to do with the fact that this was a showcase for CB, and that Vala is not a minor guest star but a major one. Just like Lifeboat was a showcase for MS, and MS is not a minor guest star but a main character, which is why we didn't see the people who were inside of Daniel, we saw the image of Daniel. (Gets ready for someone to say that this all just comes down to me being upset that Daniel didn't have a lot of screen time)

Or, they could just not have Vala in Daniel's body. Or, in any body of the main characters. And, that particular problem would be solved.

GhostPoet
March 6th, 2006, 11:56 AM
I thought this was just an absolutely fantastic episode. We finally get to see the ships as well as see what an Orii soldier is like. We get to see the man behind the mask as if were. It really gives them a much more human touch. Next time we see them in full armor attacking SG-1...they won't be faceless enemies...we'll "know" them by this episode.

Vala was great as always. :) These guys are much more of a threat than the Jaffa ever were.

Oh yeah...and i'm glad Vala got a lot of screentime playing as Jackson.

Formerhost
March 6th, 2006, 12:05 PM
Because I don't think the pertinent reasoning in Avalon was that the audience is supposed to see the person who is inside the body. If that was the reason, then I'd agree, but I think the reason RCC wrote it that way is because of the actors. So, to me, it is changing things to write it this way. If someone minor guest star played a character that inhabited Daniel's body, or Teal'c's, or Mitchell's or Sam's, I bet that we would see MS, CJ, BB, or AT playing the part. With maybe some brief scenes to remind people, that they're someone else, like reflections in mirrors. However, if one of the main characters is inhabiting someone else's body (played by someone who is a minor guest star) we would see the actor who is a part of the show. I don't think this has anything to do with a precedent established in an earlier episode. I think it had everything to do with the fact that this was a showcase for CB, and that Vala is not a minor guest star but a major one. Just like Lifeboat was a showcase for MS, and MS is not a minor guest star but a main character, which is why we didn't see the people who were inside of Daniel, we saw the image of Daniel. (Gets ready for someone to say that this all just comes down to me being upset that Daniel didn't have a lot of screen time)

Or, they could just not have Vala in Daniel's body. Or, in any body of the main characters. And, that particular problem would be solved.

The truth is... that you're just upset that Daniel didn't have a lot of screen time. But IMO it would ruin the concept of this episode. It was Claudia's show, not Michael's.

Dani347
March 6th, 2006, 12:15 PM
I don't know if I should assume you're being sarcastic or not.

Formerhost
March 6th, 2006, 12:24 PM
I don't know if I should assume you're being sarcastic or not.

Not at all. But it makes me pretty sad that Daniel's fans are trying to destroy my enjoyment of this episode, which for me personally is the best episode of the entire season at the moment. I really love Daniel's character and MS, but this episode was meant to be Claudia's episode, so just accept it.

Dani347
March 6th, 2006, 12:33 PM
Oh, my goodness!!! I'm not trying to destroy your enjoyment of anything. My comments have not one single, solitary, minute thing to do with anyone else's view of the show. I don't waste my time trying to stop anyone from enjoying anything. I just post my personal view, and post my enjoyment or lack of. I don't think that someone who complains about something I like is trying to destroy my enjoyment. I assume they happen to think differently from me. I also don't think people who liked that CB played the scenes at the SGC are trying to "destroy" how I feel.

And, as my signature says, if I don't like something, I will NOT just accept it. No way.

And, btw, I'm sure there are Daniel fans that are perfectly fine with how the episode went. And, people who don't like Daniel any better than any other character who feel like I do, and non Daniel fans who hate the episode for reasons that have nothing to do with this issue.

Hatcheter
March 6th, 2006, 12:55 PM
Because I don't think the pertinent reasoning in Avalon was that the audience is supposed to see the person who is inside the body. If someone minor guest star played a character that inhabited Daniel's body, or Teal'c's, or Mitchell's or Sam's, I bet that we would see MS, CJ, BB, or AT playing the part. With maybe some brief scenes to remind people, that they're someone else, like reflections in mirrors. However, if one of the main characters is inhabiting someone else's body (played by someone who is a minor guest star) we would see the actor who is a part of the show. You're right on the money so far. There have been a lot of episodes on both Stargates where one of the stars is somehow possessed. They have always used the star to protray the possession, whatever the circumstances of that possession are, because that was always highly relevant to the plot itself. In the aforementioned 'Lifeboat', the episode was about Daniel being possessed by multiple entities. In 'Holliday', a mind switching device has Richard Dean Anderson playing Teal'c and Chris Judge playing Jack O'Neill. In Atlantis' 'The Gift', Rachel Lutrell played the Wraith-possessed Teyla, and Torri Higgenson and Joe Flannigan played the possessed Weir and Sheppard in 'The Long Goodbye'.

But in all those situations, who was possessed was significant in and of itself. In 'Crusade', the person who did the possessing was more important.



I don't think this has anything to do with a precedent established in an earlier episode. I think it had everything to do with the fact that this was a showcase for CB, and that Vala is not a minor guest star but a major one.And this is where our opinions diverge. Yes, it was an episode to showcase Vala, and the plot points she was there to establish, but it was also keeping with prescedent.

All of the above possession examples were different situations, using various mechanisms, for significantly different thematic effect. The Ancient communication device used in 'Avalon Part II', 'Origin', and now in 'Crusade' was established as a plot tool functioning in a certain way: we the viewer see the possessor, not the possessed. Thematic honesty required them to do the same thing again.

Plus, the production aspect of the issue is significant. Michael Shanks is a very good actor, and has done well in the past portraying different characters. But he hasn't spent an entire episode mimicking an established character's minute physical and emotional manerisms and behaviors. Especially not a pregnant character. :p Ultimately, all it would have been was a mimic, and would have been less genuine, I think.



Or, they could just not have Vala in Daniel's body. Or, in any body of the main characters. And, that particular problem would be solved.But that would require ginning up a new set of circumstances, which could entirely reek of deus ex machina. Instead, they used already established (and much less DEM) plot devices. It was all laid out neatly by Carter in her first scene of the episode. Daniel and Vala hadn't possessed two random people in that village. They possessed the two who had the stones in their possession. Likewise, Carter had recreated the stone Daniel had used, so he was the only person who could possibly be reached this way.

Now that I think about, how did Daniel and Vala end up in the appropriate gender of host in 'Avalon Part II'? Luck? Imagine Daniel wearing that dress. :D

Dani347
March 6th, 2006, 01:06 PM
Well, I'll just say I disagree, because I think it's better if I just stop talking about this. Besides I've pretty much laid out how I feel.

valaCB
March 6th, 2006, 01:15 PM
Well, I'll just say I disagree, because I think it's better if I just stop talking about this. Besides I've pretty much laid out how I feel.
:zelenka25:

michael
March 6th, 2006, 01:34 PM
finally, we had to wait the all season to go back to old " the earth is doomed" factor that i liked about the show. Can't wait for that space battle in Camelot.:D

betjam
March 6th, 2006, 01:35 PM
I enjoyed this episode and it was waaaaaay better than watching a clip show. Good tie in to the first few episodes (referencing Daniel's speech and how someone was listening). I liked how in the end, Vala comes up with a quick lie, without any hesitation ("They made me do it!") and completely sells it. So next season, we know we can never completely trust what she's saying, even if she's on our side.

I was wondering the whole episode what was going on with Vala's body and if Daniel was experiencing anything or just trapped inside her, with her unconscious. It seems like she was just sitting there at the table, if she was able to pull the stone. Or did someone else?

And was SG-1 concerned about her at the end? Or was she small potatoes to what Earth was about to face?

The actor that played her husband looked familiar. Someone said L&O, but I don't watch that.

Dani347
March 6th, 2006, 01:37 PM
Okay, completely different topic. How many ships do you think the Ori are building? At first, I thought killing the Ori and the Priors would effectively stop things, even if their followers still believed in them, because most of them would be an entire galaxy away, and not really a problem. The only ones to worry about would be the ones who had the ships on that planet. And, yeah, in battle they'd have to be killed, but that would just be it.

Then, I thought that they're probably building ships on a lot more planets than the one we saw. Which means that it's even more difficult to fight the problem, because even if the Ori are gone, the ships are still there to enable the humans to come to this galaxy and kill everyone.

The actor who played Tomin is Tim Guinee. His imdb profile is here: http://imdb.com/name/nm0347375/

I don't think I've seen him in anything else.

Formerhost
March 6th, 2006, 01:51 PM
I enjoyed this episode and it was waaaaaay better than watching a clip show. Good tie in to the first few episodes (referencing Daniel's speech and how someone was listening). I liked how in the end, Vala comes up with a quick lie, without any hesitation ("They made me do it!") and completely sells it. So next season, we know we can never completely trust what she's saying, even if she's on our side.

I was wondering the whole episode what was going on with Vala's body and if Daniel was experiencing anything or just trapped inside her, with her unconscious. It seems like she was just sitting there at the table, if she was able to pull the stone. Or did someone else?

And was SG-1 concerned about her at the end? Or was she small potatoes to what Earth was about to face?

The actor that played her husband looked familiar. Someone said L&O, but I don't watch that.

Perhaps if the same people use the stones and the device multiple times they loose consciousness for the first time only?

As for trusting Vala, what would you do in this situation? You defend yourself at all costs just to survive. She's brilliant at this :)

Formerhost
March 6th, 2006, 01:52 PM
Okay, completely different topic. How many ships do you think the Ori are building? At first, I thought killing the Ori and the Priors would effectively stop things, even if their followers still believed in them, because most of them would be an entire galaxy away, and not really a problem. The only ones to worry about would be the ones who had the ships on that planet. And, yeah, in battle they'd have to be killed, but that would just be it.

Then, I thought that they're probably building ships on a lot more planets than the one we saw. Which means that it's even more difficult to fight the problem, because even if the Ori are gone, the ships are still there to enable the humans to come to this galaxy and kill everyone.

The actor who played Tomin is Tim Guinee. His imdb profile is here: http://imdb.com/name/nm0347375/

I don't think I've seen him in anything else.

CBS's "CSI: New York", last week's episode.

Cory Holmes
March 6th, 2006, 02:25 PM
Can anyone point me in the direction of the preview for next week's episode? I can't find it on Scifi.com

Formerhost
March 6th, 2006, 02:27 PM
Can anyone point me in the direction of the preview for next week's episode? I can't find it on Scifi.com

http://www.sg1archive.com/s9.shtml

Scroll down to the bottom of the page. It's a .mov file, so Quick Time or Quick Time Alternative is a must.

Cory Holmes
March 6th, 2006, 02:33 PM
http://www.sg1archive.com/s9.shtml

Scroll down to the bottom of the page. It's a .mov file, so Quick Time or Quick Time Alternative is a must.

Thanks.

Frostfox
March 6th, 2006, 02:57 PM
lol! This is the second time a TV sci-fi space-ship has manifested loo-properties - the Starship Voyager resembled a toilet seat too. The shape of things to come... ;)

No, it was the Defiant which looked like the loo seat! Voyager was a bit more normal.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/frostfox/defiant.jpg

FF :nox:

esoap524
March 6th, 2006, 05:02 PM
As someone already said: Nobody should give a crap whether or not it would've been better to have Daniel portray Vala-in-Daniel.

Because in "Avalon (Part II)" and "Origin", it was Claudia Black and Michael shanks portraying Daniel and Vala in those two Ori galaxy people. So unless you'd rather have had 2 episodes where the only glimpses we'd get of Michael and Claudia were of their lifeless bodies in the SGC, stop whining.

LOL!! The "stop whining" part just made me laugh.

I love Michael Shanks, but I suspect the Daniel-holics would be happiest if MS played every character all the time ;)

And, no offense to Mr. Shanks, but I suspect that the emotional level from Black in this particular role at this particular juncture, was likely more intense than Michael playing Daniel playing Vala. Most of this is Vala, telling a story; Black had to convey that emotion just through what she said and her reactions. To do it otherwise would have been put even more distance between the emotion of that backstory and the present time.

And, yes, it's definitely more consistent with what happened before to do it this way.

esoap524
March 6th, 2006, 05:05 PM
As for trusting Vala, what would you do in this situation? You defend yourself at all costs just to survive. She's brilliant at this :)

I liked that aspect a lot. After all is said and done, she's still a survivor and if lying is what it takes, she'll do it. I did sense, though, some unease about it on her part. Quite possibly I was reading into it, but she almost looked as though she felt badly about having to lie but what are you going to do? and tomin didn't look as though he 100% believed her, but then again, if she's the bearer of Ori offspring...well, what are you gonna do? They're both stuck with their respective doubts but still have to pretend, and pretend that the other isn't lying to them.

if that makes ANY sense!

Dani347
March 6th, 2006, 05:08 PM
I love Michael Shanks, but I suspect the Daniel-holics would be happiest if MS played every character all the time ;)


No, just the second to last episode.

That was sarcasm and extreme frustration in that remark.

RealmOfX
March 6th, 2006, 05:45 PM
I was wondering the whole episode what was going on with Vala's body and if Daniel was experiencing anything or just trapped inside her, with her unconscious. It seems like she was just sitting there at the table, if she was able to pull the stone. Or did someone else?

I'm assuming she was just sitting at the table unconscious whilst communicating with SGC. When they cut back to Vala after the disconnect we see the device smoking a little so her hubby probably shot it.


And was SG-1 concerned about her at the end? Or was she small potatoes to what Earth was about to face?

Considering they had approx. 90 secs left of the show to let us know about what happened with the Russians and what their plans are knowing of an imminent attack I thought they did pretty well.


The actor that played her husband looked familiar. Someone said L&O, but I don't watch that.

He looks similar to the guy out of Firefly (he also had a guest role in Buffy), Nathan Fillion.

esoap524
March 6th, 2006, 05:53 PM
He looks similar to the guy out of Firefly (he also had a guest role in Buffy), Nathan Fillion.

He also sort of looked like Michael J. Fox.

Tok'Ra Hostess
March 6th, 2006, 06:07 PM
I liked that aspect a lot. After all is said and done, she's still a survivor and if lying is what it takes, she'll do it. I did sense, though, some unease about it on her part. Quite possibly I was reading into it, but she almost looked as though she felt badly about having to lie but what are you going to do? and tomin didn't look as though he 100% believed her, but then again, if she's the bearer of Ori offspring...well, what are you gonna do? They're both stuck with their respective doubts but still have to pretend, and pretend that the other isn't lying to them.

if that makes ANY sense!

I don't know about her feeling badly about lying, but she really has become attached to Tomin - not necessarily romantically attached, but that man is so kind and gentle that he's released the humanity in her and it's lovely to see.

I think she's risking an awful lot, going with Tomin. She doesn't know what fate awaits them in the MW but she does know that there are advanced civilisations with advanced weaponry and that the Earthers at least have thus far proven up to the task of fighting back.

She also showed courage and strength when she refused to betray the barmaid. Not that long ago she would have, to save her own skin, but she's already grown as a character. I'd say that Vala was using her wiles in a good way in this ep and I can see this being the talent she brings to the season ten team.

the fifth man
March 6th, 2006, 07:46 PM
She also showed courage and strength when she refused to betray the barmaid. Not that long ago she would have, to save her own skin, but she's already grown as a character. I'd say that Vala was using her wiles in a good way in this ep and I can see this being the talent she brings to the season ten team.

I couldn't agree more.:) Vala has really grown as a character over the course of her time on this show. That is very evident to me. And over time, I think the others will be able to truly "trust" her more and more. I can't wait to see what she can do as a full-time member of the team.

the dancer of spaz
March 6th, 2006, 09:00 PM
Not at all. But it makes me pretty sad that Daniel's fans are trying to destroy my enjoyment of this episode, which for me personally is the best episode of the entire season at the moment. I really love Daniel's character and MS, but this episode was meant to be Claudia's episode, so just accept it.

Special K? Is that you? After so long, you've finally come back to us! :rolleyes:


ANYWAY, For me, Tomin was a sniveling, spineless weasel. It looks like Vala cares for him, but he really doesn't deserve anything from her or anyone. I guess I'm a bit bitter over the fact that someone would leave their own wife shackled for three days without food or water (pregnant, no less), but beyond that, Tomin is Prior Chow. He's definitely destined for a gruesome and/or bloody (and deserved) death. Mind you, I'm not WISHING death upon his simpering soul. I just think he's pathetic. Cute. But pathetic.

Vala won many points for Crusade. I'm so glad they toned her down, and with Claudia Black's talent, they still kept her "Vala." I had my doubts, and I'm still rather reserved about Season 10, but my mind is open.

Though Claudia Black has a fantastic narrating voice, towards the end, I was expecting to hear more from the other characters. There's only so long you can hear one voice, really. There needed to be more action.

The ep was solid, if a bit slow. Still, Cameron only had two (count 'em, two!) lame statements (Oh-So-Random Grandma Anecdote #12; Seevis is a butthead). Vala only had one sexual innuendo about Daniel and his pants.

Yet there were oodles and oodles of funny characters moments.

She-Daniel checking Cameron out; Sam's excitement over the experiment working; the look on Landry's face when Vala asks for him to get her pancakes and ice cream; the look on Vala's face after she's devoured said pancakes and ice cream; Sam's hilarious nose-twitching and "As in...?" question; Cameron's various facial expressions, "OK... Maybe we skipped a bit too far"; Vala's cute "... It made me feel kinda special..." statement; Teal'c's Darth Vader (Vala's, "Really? How did that turn out?"), Cameron's Merlin, Sam's WTF?...

They were all quite humorous, and I actually wouldn't mind seeing the ep again for them. The fact that the humor was spread around certainly helped. And the fact that the episode was Daniel-lite out of "necessity," and Teal'c-lite out of laziness (though CJ evidently likes it this way) can be overlooked. We should logically know that any episode from here on out with Vala in it will rarely be Daniel-lite. When SG-1 goes Quintet!, we should expect Tealc's lines to disappear by the tens - though this apparently has nothing to do with the characters.

And whoa, there! Easy on the close-ups, Coop! They were great in moderation, but became kinda excessive and distracting. SG-1 has a cast of gorgeous people. There's no doubt about it. But I found myself more focused on the intricate facial expressions of the actors than the lines they were saying - which was fine when emotions were being conveyed without words. But if they were talking, or if someone was talking off camera, I was hard-pressed to catch what they said the first time around. Interesting tactic in having Sam and Vala look almost directly into the camera, too, though I was a bit unnerved (read: distracted) by that as well. OK, I guess I have the attention span of a six-year-old. Whatever. I'm working on it. :p

There's hope for some Sam/Vala friendship in Season Ten! It'll be nothing like Sam/Janet and nothing like Vala/Daniel, but it'll be something quite interesting. AT and CB are too talented for this opportunity to be passed up. I'm looking forward to seeing their interaction. It'll be cool! The writers have done OK so far! They'd just better not screw it up!

And was that foreshadowing through Cameron's personal research on Merlin with a line that would've normally come from Daniel? Merlin enchanted the Queen who bore Arthur? I could've sworn I read spoilers that said something about that... And Merlin does seem like a bad dude.

Let's see, let's see, what else... Oh! Landry just gets cooler and cooler by the episode! I'm not one to live in the past or anything ( ;) ), but I'm surprised Landry's been given so much to do, when Hammond really wasn't. I guess it has more to do with the fact that there've been multiple SGC eps mixed in with the off-world ones. Either way, Landry has proven that he knows what he's doing. Though I had my reservations about him in the past, he's a solid character. I wonder where Lam has been lately?

One other question: When's Vala Jr. due?

PG15
March 6th, 2006, 09:15 PM
But isn't that the point with Tomin? He's soooo set in his believes (which shows how close-minded the Ori-controlled masses are) that he won't even help his own wife.

the dancer of spaz
March 6th, 2006, 09:29 PM
But isn't that the point with Tomin? He's soooo set in his believes (which shows how close-minded the Ori-controlled masses are) that he won't even help his own wife.

Yep! It still makes him a spineless twit. :)

Don't get me wrong, I liked Tomin in the beginning. He was so sweet. And, yeah, this just shows the extent of the Ori's control over people. But you'd think he'd have a few more reservations about gods who only healed his leg so he could fight a war. If they were so great, why didn't they heal him before? Why let him go through all of this suffering? Make him sterile (infertile? oy :P )? Impregnate someone he cared about like some kind of deranged incubus?

This, admittedly, is where the complexities of such a character shine through. So desperate was he to fit into society, he was willing to do whatever it took to maintain his new status, even going against his better judgment by leaving Vala to rot.

Characters like Tomin are ultimately destined for death, though. His sweetness, yet his faith in the Ori will probably be his downfall. He might as well have a skull and crossbones on his forehead, because I doubt he'll make it past Camelot.

betjam
March 6th, 2006, 10:39 PM
As for trusting Vala, what would you do in this situation? You defend yourself at all costs just to survive. She's brilliant at this :)

Yes, Yes. That's what I liked about that moment. She covered herself so fast. I think she will be fun to watch next season.


The actor who played Tomin is Tim Guinee. His imdb profile is here: http://imdb.com/name/nm0347375/

Thanks Dani, and everyone else for trying to jog my memory on where I may have seen him (maybe it's that Michael J. Fox lookalike thing--LOL). I checked imdb and Tim has been one busy boy. But I don't watch the shows they listed (perhaps I saw him on West Wing before I stopped watching) and it's safe to say I didn't see Beavis and Butt-Head Do America.

Dani347
March 6th, 2006, 10:42 PM
I thought I might have seen him on West Wing, but it looks like his appearance was this year, which was after I had stopped watching. Other than that, I don't think I could have seen him on anything else.

valaCB
March 6th, 2006, 11:48 PM
I couldn't agree more.:) I think the others will be able to truly "trust" her more and more. I can't wait to see what she can do as a full-time member of the team.
This is true and that mean, the writers wrote Vala vary well. Our trust to Vala is analog to SGC's trust to Vala.

Formerhost
March 7th, 2006, 01:05 AM
Yep! It still makes him a spineless twit. :)

Don't get me wrong, I liked Tomin in the beginning. He was so sweet. And, yeah, this just shows the extent of the Ori's control over people. But you'd think he'd have a few more reservations about gods who only healed his leg so he could fight a war. If they were so great, why didn't they heal him before? Why let him go through all of this suffering? Make him infertile? Impregnate someone he cared about like some kind of deranged incubus?

This, admittedly, is where the complexities of such a character shine through. So desperate was he to fit into society, he was willing to do whatever it took to maintain his new status, even going against his better judgment by leaving Vala to rot.

Characters like Tomin are ultimately destined for death, though. His sweetness, yet his faith in the Ori will probably be his downfall. He might as well have a skull and crossbones on his forehead, because I doubt he'll make it past Camelot.

Spoilers for season 10's "Flesh and Blood" say something completely different... I guess we'll see Tomin in at least 3 or 4 episodes of season 10. My prediction is that he'll sacrifice his life for Vala and perhaps Daniel.

Formerhost
March 7th, 2006, 01:14 AM
Special K? Is that you? After so long, you've finally come back to us! :rolleyes:


:confused: :tealcanime49: :confused:

scarimor
March 7th, 2006, 02:21 AM
Yep! It still makes him a spineless twit. :)

Don't get me wrong, I liked Tomin in the beginning. He was so sweet. And, yeah, this just shows the extent of the Ori's control over people. But you'd think he'd have a few more reservations about gods who only healed his leg so he could fight a war. If they were so great, why didn't they heal him before? Why let him go through all of this suffering? Make him infertile? Impregnate someone he cared about like some kind of deranged incubus?

This, admittedly, is where the complexities of such a character shine through. So desperate was he to fit into society, he was willing to do whatever it took to maintain his new status, even going against his better judgment by leaving Vala to rot.

Characters like Tomin are ultimately destined for death, though. His sweetness, yet his faith in the Ori will probably be his downfall. He might as well have a skull and crossbones on his forehead, because I doubt he'll make it past Camelot.

The concentration camps were full of nice, good-natured men who did exactly what their indoctrination told them and committed mass-murder. Tomin is that type - proving the saying that in order for evil to prosper, good men need only do nothing. This kind, gentle man is going out with the intention of slaughtering millions just because he's been told they were "raised in evil". So far we have a man utterly lacking in moral courage.

Perhaps they will write him to rise above his spineless murderousness. Perhaps not. We will see.

sparkygate
March 7th, 2006, 02:26 AM
http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/SG1_Transcripts/message/3119





:D

Tok'Ra Hostess
March 7th, 2006, 04:37 AM
The concentration camps were full of nice, good-natured men who did exactly what their indoctrination told them and committed mass-murder. Tomin is that type - proving the saying that in order for evil to prosper, good men need only do nothing. This kind, gentle man is going out with the intention of slaughtering millions just because he's been told they were "raised in evil". So far we have a man utterly lacking in moral courage.

Perhaps they will write him to rise above his spineless murderousness. Perhaps not. We will see.


Matter of point of view, I guess. I agree with what you are saying, but I think the writers were good at showing us the other side.

For instance, I can't help but draw a parallel between Tomin and his ordinary friends and the Isrealite former slaves whose god ordered them to invade the promised land and kill everybody - something that took them several generations to accomplish.

David of the Bible was a kind gentle yet brave soul who loved his little sheep and played a soothing harp and wrote poetry. And the women sang songs about him killing his tens of thousands. David is considered a hero by most Bible lovers.

As to Tomin leaving his wife chained to the town firepit, it puts me in mind of the Adam&Eve show. If Adam hadn't gone along with his wife, god would have killed her... eventually.

Adam lost paradise and...eventually... died for loving his wife more than god(what the scenario boils down to for me.) Adam is generally regarded as a spineless twit.