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GateWorld
January 2nd, 2006, 06:23 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s9/915.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/graphics/915.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">SG-1 SEASON NINE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s9/915.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none"><B>ETHON</B></A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 915</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
Daniel is imprisoned on a world under the influence of the Ori, and the Prometheus is caught in a firefight when SG-1 tries to rescue him.

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s9/915.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

ShippyChick
February 3rd, 2006, 04:07 PM
Why did they let him through the gate? Don't they know he is a Cylon?

SG-1ssm
February 3rd, 2006, 04:25 PM
The Promethius is being torn to shreads...I really hope it surivives. If it doesn't, I think SG-1 will get beamed down to the planet first. That do you guys think?

BTW: I think this is a great episode.

Qasim
February 3rd, 2006, 04:26 PM
OMG Why are you doing this to me!!!! when you know full well I have to wait til tomorrow to watch!!! :(

:P

SG-1ssm
February 3rd, 2006, 04:31 PM
I said spoilers...And the Promethius was just destoryed!!!!!

Lil Naitch
February 3rd, 2006, 04:34 PM
Well, Damn. I just start getting back into Stargate, and they go and blow up the Prometheus. Didn't see that comming.

Mike
February 3rd, 2006, 04:35 PM
Its like a major character has been lost :(

Qasim
February 3rd, 2006, 04:37 PM
I said spoilers...And the Promethius was just destoryed!!!!!I was just joking and FRACK!!!! to that

SG-1ssm
February 3rd, 2006, 04:38 PM
Pendergas is dead...SG-1 is accounted for...

O'Neil
February 3rd, 2006, 04:49 PM
Why in the world did they find it necessary to destroy prometheous?? I think that was really stupid, and I think this show is on the verge of running aground in dumb-land. Earth needs to step it up a notch and actually find some weapons and shields that actually work.

MarineCorp
February 3rd, 2006, 04:54 PM
Wow. As much I thought the Prometheus was a peice of junk I am sadded by it's lost. :(

SG-1ssm
February 3rd, 2006, 04:56 PM
Why in the world did they find it necessary to destroy prometheous?? I think that was really stupid, and I think this show is on the verge of running aground in dumb-land. Earth needs to step it up a notch and actually find some weapons and shields that actually work.

Hey now I'm accually scared that our ships and charators will get killed. THe Promethius was old and it sucks...But I will miss it...It looked so cool.

Cinephilic TV Addict
February 3rd, 2006, 05:00 PM
okay ep - 3 stars. best of the season so far.

SG-1 drinks coors light...awesome!

Major Tyler
February 3rd, 2006, 05:00 PM
I'm going to miss the Prometheus and Lionel. :( Very sad. If anyone survived in Rand, the Daedalus should nuke them. :mad:

prion
February 3rd, 2006, 05:01 PM
WEll, don't care about the PRometheus. It's an inanimate object. IT's like blowing up a Buick. I'm ticked off the writers killed off Pendergaast. Yes yes, the reality of war, etc., but sheesh, I guess I might as well not care about any of the recurring characters the way the writers keep bumping 'em off.

Overall, a decent episode except Pendergaast getting blown to bits. SIgh.

Seshat
February 3rd, 2006, 05:02 PM
I like it when they blow things up! :D This ep was more like the old Stargate IMO than anything else this season. I especially liked seeing Ernie Hudson's guest turn. And Daniel and Kane's exchange in the cells:

Kane: Do you ever give up?
Daniel: Not until I'm dead. (pause) And sometimes, not even then.

*snicker* I love it when the show makes fun of itself. :D

Yes, too bad about Pendergast. :-(

bumontheroad
February 3rd, 2006, 05:02 PM
man, that hurt when prommie went down...and at the end when jackson told mitchell that they dumped the talks and nuked each other, i was like, wtf is wrong with yall? prommie got wasted for nothing...

AGateFan
February 3rd, 2006, 05:04 PM
okay ep - 3 stars. best of the season so far.

SG-1 drinks coors light...awesome!
On base - on duty... not so cool.

But the episode was fine. Depressing but thats what they were going for so it was fine.

psiu
February 3rd, 2006, 05:05 PM
WEll, don't care about the PRometheus. It's an inanimate object. IT's like blowing up a Buick. I'm ticked off the writers killed off Pendergaast. Yes yes, the reality of war, etc., but sheesh, I guess I might as well not care about any of the recurring characters the way the writers keep bumping 'em off.

Overall, a decent episode except Pendergaast getting blown to bits. SIgh.

Pretty much my opinion.

Coupled with the fact that I found Icon boring (I don't think I've ever watched it all the way through) and don't really care about either the Rand or C.... the "C" people. Blah, I can't even remember their name.

Did the cute blonde bridge girl get off safely?

Johnquixote
February 3rd, 2006, 05:07 PM
One of the best episodes of the series for me.
Great acting, actually great concern, dark twisted ending.
They really showcased the Oris' power in this ep, imagine weapons they build themselves and onto their starships.

I wasn't suspecting from Ethon when I first heard about it, then I heard the rumors about Prommie and it got me more interested, then I saw the trailer and I was looking forward to it, now I'm like... whoa.

Only thing that made me mad was they didn't show the memorial service. Still amazing, so long Colonel Penderghast.

Here's to Prommie.

MarshAngel
February 3rd, 2006, 05:08 PM
Why in the world did they find it necessary to destroy prometheous?? I think that was really stupid, and I think this show is on the verge of running aground in dumb-land. Earth needs to step it up a notch and actually find some weapons and shields that actually work.

This I disagree with. It's past time there were some real consequences. I'm extremely pleased that this wasn't all neatly tied up with a happy ending. I like happy endings as much as the next person but things get stale when you know everything turns out ok all the time.

The show would really suck if the Tauri just dug up a better weapon everytime a bad guy comes along. It's war, things get blown up. I can live with that. Granted I bet that's what will happen in the end but in the mean time a little hardship is warranted.

adk06
February 3rd, 2006, 05:09 PM
I knew we should taken out the satellite when we had the chance

and I also felt alittle of the old episodes of Stargate. I liked this episode.

Pendergast - "How could it penetrate our Asguard designed shields"
Carter - "I don't know sir"

?? does this mean they don't think the ori are capable of getting past puny asguard shields. Well compared to ASCENDED being there puny

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
February 3rd, 2006, 05:09 PM
It was a so-so episode. I give it a * 1/2. Cool Prometheus visual effects. It's sad the Prometheus was destroyed :(

darman
February 3rd, 2006, 05:10 PM
My question is why did they focus so much on that one crew member that was helping out Carter? Usually those guys just nod and do whatever they're told. They made it seem like he's someone significant. Is he going to have an important role to play in the future?

kharn the betrayer
February 3rd, 2006, 05:10 PM
Pendergast died ;_; grrr why do I keep liking characters that tend to end up dead (and Im not just talking about this show either)

I enjoyed the episode

and am kinda sad to see the prommie get blown to bits even if I thought the thing was ugly

Lil Naitch
February 3rd, 2006, 05:12 PM
On base - on duty... not so cool.

But the episode was fine. Depressing but thats what they were going for so it was fine.

On base- yes. On duty- no. Mitchell just came back from delivering the news to Pendergast's family, and Daniel was probably just doing some private research.

As for the Prometheus getting wasted- I see what they're doing. It's the classic wrestling build-up: Babyface (Stargate Command) gets beat up by the Heel (Ori). Heel continues to beat up babyface, till almost all hope is lost- then the Babyface makes the big comeback and throws the Ori off the top of the cell into fifteeen burning tables wraped in barbed wire....

Yeah, that kind of got away from me. Point is- the Ori need to been seen as a threat. Hence, a lot of the shows icons (no pun intended) are going to get destroyed before they are finally beaten. Especially if this carries over into a tenth season.

alz0rz
February 3rd, 2006, 05:13 PM
What makes it even more tragic is the fact a puny race like that, that got their hands on something more advanced (like us btw :p) destroyed us. I would have no hard feelings if were someone like the Ori who did, but the puny guys down there :(.

I also think it's the fact that the prommie has survived close to 4 seasons being our first and only battlecruiser (other then the recent arrival of the Deadalus) which kicked some ass!

Ernie Hudson (Pendergast) is my hero.

-al

warmbeachbrat
February 3rd, 2006, 05:13 PM
Oh I am seriously unhappy! :o Do they really have so many recurring characters that they feel the need to bump them off every now and again? I really liked Pendergast. I can't believe we're not going to see him any more. If they ever even think of touching Dr. Lee....:mad:

Redwall
February 3rd, 2006, 05:15 PM
Wow, this was actually quite a nice episode.

The only thing that really bothered me was the EMP explanation. I thought the Caladonians had nukes -- why not just use the EMP from detonating one of them in the upper atmosphere? That would have provided an interesting character moment given Mitchell's hate for them. (Of course, a nuke may have pissed the Rands off enough to make them not consider a deal...)

KillerMercury
February 3rd, 2006, 05:18 PM
Okay, first of all, WOW. It seems that SG-1's been going through a roll, and Ethon just makes it even better.

A great plot with strong acting from the whole cast makes this one of the best episodes this season, IMO. It's just...AAH! It's just SO GOOD!

Maybe when I calm down, I'll give a full review, but for now:

RIP Colonel Pendergast, the other 38 crewmembers and the Prometheus, thank you for saving Earth time and time again.

Johnquixote
February 3rd, 2006, 05:20 PM
Wow, this was actually quite a nice episode.

The only thing that really bothered me was the EMP explanation. I thought the Caladonians had nukes -- why not just use the EMP from detonating one of them in the upper atmosphere? That would have provided an interesting character moment given Mitchell's hate for them. (Of course, a nuke may have pissed the Rands off enough to make them not consider a deal...)
Daniel was on the planet though, nukes wouldn't have been the best choice. Besides, Mitchell doesn't like nukes (Beach Head)

doombringer333
February 3rd, 2006, 05:23 PM
I like the ep - the scene where Prommie blows up was pretty fantastic.

I think the satellite penetrated the Prommie's shield through sabotage. Do you remember that blonde-haired Captain, the one who was helping Carter with the naquadah generator? He acted really strange when he and Carter were going the engine room - he was trying to get to the elevator, and Carter told him to come back because it wasn't working. "Oh yeah, I don't know what I was thinking." It could be just nerves - he's not used to the Prommie getting blown up - but he may have been trying to get away.

Also, now that Rand and Caledonia are destroyed - what happened to the satellite?!?! Who has it?

doombringer333
February 3rd, 2006, 05:27 PM
My question is why did they focus so much on that one crew member that was helping out Carter? Usually those guys just nod and do whatever they're told. They made it seem like he's someone significant. Is he going to have an important role to play in the future?

I'm glad you notice that,too! I think you're right, there's something fishy with him. He was on the bridge when the Prommie got h it, and I think he compromised the shields.

Johnquixote
February 3rd, 2006, 05:38 PM
I'm glad you notice that,too! I think you're right, there's something fishy with him. He was on the bridge when the Prommie got h it, and I think he compromised the shields.
Marks becomes the helmsman of the Odyssey. I think they were just showing fear.

KillerMercury
February 3rd, 2006, 05:42 PM
Did anybody else notice the cross between the usual steady cam and the Firefly-esque "shaky cam" in this episode. It felt to me like I was watching a documentary. Nice change of style.

tsaxlady
February 3rd, 2006, 05:42 PM
Overall I enjoyed this episode - :( Pendergast

This episode held my interest better than some have this season. I do like it when they blow things up. :D

Toaster Roaster
February 3rd, 2006, 05:51 PM
I bet Thor got a nasty message on his answering machine about the so called great Asguard Shields.


Was it really nessacary for the captain to go down with his ship? I mean who was going to get his distress signal? Plus they no where they went already....

PS. The guy helping Cater looks like a spy/sabatour to me.

Dani347
February 3rd, 2006, 06:04 PM
Meh. I wish they had never thought of the Ori. I wish they'd create a big weapon, get rid of them all, and find another kind of villian. I hate the Ori. At least let them and their duped followers stick to terms like enlightenment instead of salvation.

I hate ships. The space kind. I don't care one bit that the Prometheus blew up. Big flipping deal. And, it seems -to me- that danger on a ship with all the fast running around and blasts and explosions and bright lights just doesn't have the same dramatic impact as when someone is in a storyline that doesn't involve special effects. And, I'm afraid I wasn't connected to Pendergast, so the loss of him didn't have the same effect on me that it had on some others.

They certainly didn't manage to do what they did in Collateral Damage or Stronghold for me. Hardly any scenes with Daniel in CD, but it had the effect of him and Teal'c doing something to help Mitchell. And, of course, I thought Stronghold gave Daniel some very Daniel-like stuff to do, and stuff that isn't usually referenced as part of his role (to ask questions) but is as much a part as a lot of other stuff. But, this one, I was composing my post about how they spent more time showing the guest stars by themselves instead of him. But, I looked back and it wasn't true. Only two scenes where they had the Ran(d) (I don't know if the name has a 'd' on the end or not) leaders without him there. But, for some reason, even thought he had more scenes, and I was told that he had been trying to convince them, I didn't get the impression of him being really active.

And, was this the episode where Daniel was supposed to have turned against his teammates? *lets out derisive shriek of laughter* What I saw was Daniel suggesting a solution and the duped leader going back on it. In no way did they make it appear that Daniel had betrayed everyone, or had turned to join the Ori or anything like that. Which might have been interesting. Having him seem to and having the others know that he wouldn't, and wonder if he had been compromised. Maybe wonder if they would need to kill him to protect everyone, and them having angst about that.

The least they could have done is have SG1 think he was missing and react appropriately.

The moments I like in an episode (the character moments, the ones that don't have to be shared with ship blowing up) were few here. Daniel's shock after seeing the Prometheus blow up, because he thought SG1 was there, Teal'c and Mitchell being happy to see Sam alive, Daniel sitting in the cell, head bowed, looking like he was in shock and couldn't even continue to try and convince the other leader guy (I don't even know the names of these people. That says something) that they should listen to them, until near the end of the scene. He looked so lost. I can only assume him retrying to work out a solution was because he wanted to make their deaths (that he presumed) count for something and to keep his mind off of it. And, the last scene between Daniel and Mitchell.

It didn't move me. Certainly (imo) there was no sign of anyone taking over the episode, but on the other hand, none of them really seemed to do anything at all. Like I said, to me, any story set on a ship blowing up, the ship comes off as the star, rather than the characters. I didn't feel like I was really watching Daniel do anything on the planet, although I guess I was supposed to.

So, to sum up. Prometheus blows up. Daniel stuck in jail. That's Ethon. And, I can see, as of right now (who knows how many more posts have come after this) I'm alone about not thinking this was wonderful or even half as good as the last episodes.

prion
February 3rd, 2006, 06:09 PM
And, was this the episode where Daniel was supposed to have turned against his teammates? *lets out derisive shriek of laughter* What I saw was Daniel suggesting a solution and the duped leader going back on it. In no way did they make it appear that Daniel had betrayed everyone, or had turned to join the Ori or anything like that. Which might have been interesting. Having him seem to and having the others know that he wouldn't, and wonder if he had been compromised. Maybe wonder if they would need to kill him to protect everyone, and them having angst about that.


OPh yeah, one tv guide description said that. I was like, huh, where? Geez, who writes these descriptions??

bumontheroad
February 3rd, 2006, 06:18 PM
good episode overall, and since (from the spoilers on the site, at least) it seems that season 9 is really gonna start picking up on the ori invasion and will have plenty of fights to come, this is a good episode to show how powerful the ori are. i mean, if the asgard shields don't work, we're screwed in the space battles. of course, they'll find a way to modify the shields to work against it, they always do ;).

i don't mind so much that prommie was lost, casualties happen in war, but it was wasted. i mean, what DID they accomplish on that planet? the destruction of two civilizations? finding out that the most advanced defense technology they have doesn't work? losing a capital ship along with half it's crew (didn't listen closly enough to get exact losses, but half seems about right)? kinda a lost battle there overall

Erin
February 3rd, 2006, 06:18 PM
The EM pulse thing knocking out the town reminded me of Ocean's 11 and Basher's bomb thingy haha.

Sam and Cam are really friendly aren't they?

Loved this episode!!!! Definitely an on the edge of your seat episode.

AGateFan
February 3rd, 2006, 06:23 PM
The EM pulse thing knocking out the town reminded me of Ocean's 11 and Basher's bomb thingy haha.

Sam and Cam are really friendly aren't they?

Loved this episode!!!! Definitely an on the edge of your seat episode.

Just like Brother and sister ... yes:)

Dani347
February 3rd, 2006, 06:27 PM
i was going to say just like anyone reacting to seeing a friend that they thought had died in an explosion. Teal'c didn't exactly yawn and say "who cares" when he saw Sam, either.

Kanten
February 3rd, 2006, 06:28 PM
So, I guess Rand and Caledonia are no more after this one. Seems like a bit of a copout though after the final scenes on the planet, felt a little too deus ex machina-ish for me.

RIP Prometheus, Lionel Pendergast, and Leda Kane (everyone forgot about her didn't they?) you will be missed.

Dang, and to think all they needed to do was blast the satellite as soon as they got there.

They needed Daedalus there. Hermiod could've beamed a nuke into that thing and saved their butts. :(

Daniel's_twin
February 3rd, 2006, 06:32 PM
"And so Prometheus was punished by the gods for bringing Fire to the mortals, and was chained to the mountainside and was visited every day by the Eagle Ethon, sent by Hera, who gnawed at his liver every day. And every day his body regenerated itself so that he lived in unending torture..."

This was a teriffic episode. Definitely better than Icon (which I did enjoy, by the way). I liked the fact that they're introducing the fact that the Ori and the Priors are going beyond the typical turn now or die. The fact that they can teach a race who has just suffeciently advanced enough technology to actually make a higher technological weapon is pretty disturbing.

I liked the part that Daniel had to play in it, even though he didn't see any 'action', per se. Kinda missed Landry, but at least they explained where he was. A shame about the guy's wife. I really liked her. I liked all the team interaction in this one, actually.

Excellent battle sequences. The Prometheus getting pummeled kinda tugged at me, particularly when Pentergast went down with the ship. Phenomenal visual effects.

I could go on, but what could I say that either has not already been said or shall be said? Overall, an episode that far exceeded my expectations. I give this another five out of five stars. So far, Season nine is proving very strong!!:cool:

nccjones
February 3rd, 2006, 06:41 PM
Wow! This was a great, intense episode. It's about time we had a good episode after having downers like Collateral Damage and Stronghold. Those episodes ruined Mitchell for me and it made me not care for him in this episode. Other than that...wow!

Man, I had tears in my eyes when Pendergast wouldn't leave the ship, I knew he would be the Captain to go down with his ship. I found the Air Force calling General Quarters quite funny though (I'm Navy). But really, it was definately intense. Daniel in the cell hanging his head...man, I felt for him. He had no idea Sam and Teal'c were alive. When Sam came in the Ministers war room and Teal'c took her by the arms....I had to gulp. The hug btwn Mitchell and her, I didn't feel anything since I don't have anything invested in him. But Sam and Daniel exchanging they were glad to hear each others voices was great. I really felt strong team feelings there.

I can't believe that they nuked each other in the end. I love Daniel, but he has to feel guilty to a degree. He is the one who pretty much conviced them to go to the planet. (I'm glad it wasn't Sam because she would have been persecuted by now...lol).

As for the beers...yeah, I had to take a double take. That scene really made me mad. That was so unsat in a secure facility like that. Especially a senior officer....he just went another notch down. I kept hoping Daniel wouldn't drink it. If an enlisted would have been caught with the beer, it would have been his career. Alcohol is a serious offense in the military. You can drink off duty, but not at place of duty.


This was definately a great episode though. I enjoyed it. :)

Dani347
February 3rd, 2006, 06:42 PM
I liked Icon better because it felt more character driven. Plus there was more emotion. I might rewatch since my first impression that they cut to a lot of scenes down on the planet without Daniel even being in them was wrong. But, my initial impression was that it was more Jared doing the talking than Daniel. And, I was fine with that in Stronghold, because Bra'tac would know more, and Daniel still was a shown active part of his scenes there. The briefing Landry scene, for one. If I felt a balance in the scenes with Daniel and Jared -Jared having stuff to say, because he knew the man he was talking to, an the situation between the two enemies, and Daniel having more to say (shown on screen) because he knows more about those blasted Ori, it would have felt better for me.

I'm fine if some bureaucrat decides to destroy every spaceship, as long as they do it off screen and only reference it in one line after the fact.

If it's a choice between protocol and a nice, understanding moment between two characters, I'll take the understanding moment.

gatewonderer114
February 3rd, 2006, 06:47 PM
holy crap, they destroyed prometheus, those *******s.

Still, this was a great episode im my opinion.

burntoffering7
February 3rd, 2006, 06:58 PM
a damn good episode! the show rocks my socks.......... just for the sock comment, im never posting again!

alaskannut
February 3rd, 2006, 07:02 PM
holy crap, they destroyed prometheus, those *******s.

Still, this was a great episode im my opinion.
Oh my god, you, killed Prometheus!

You ********! :p;)


sorry...had a kenny moment there;)

x_sid
February 3rd, 2006, 07:07 PM
Other than the promethius getting blown up I liked this episode. Did anyone else not really care that those people blew themselves up after they killed several Airforce officers, and blew up my favorite Earth ship. I was hoping they'd bring in a mother ship or something and toast those idiots.

Kanten
February 3rd, 2006, 07:10 PM
I felt somewhat content when the Rand president finally got his at the end. He was, after all, the one who ordered them to keep firing on Prommie.

Traveler Enroute1
February 3rd, 2006, 07:14 PM
I was impressed with this episode. :)

My pro's:

-Action. Space battles rock for me, esp when done well. The sfx were hot. Liked seeing Cam back in the pilot's seat. Plan to put fighters between ship and weapon added more tension. Destruction of Promethues, losing the Captain (well acted death scene, btw) and loss of crew, well played. Liked the tactic of the EM pulse, and how it was brought up as one of the things Sam was working on at Area 51. Cam understands what Sam's saying-more evident.

-Sam gets to do her science thing, almost made me understand the Ori gizmo. Her explanation of the weapon's low-tech development was a big help and passed on more Ori strategy intel. Loving Sam in black (deja vu!)

-Shared command nod! Loved that neither Cam nor Sam would sit in the "Big Chair." Nice touch, having Cam debate with himself whether to sit there or not, and deciding not. Hmmm. Why does Sam smile like that when Cam nixes the chair? Hmm-hmm. ;)

-More or less a team ep, altho Teal'c had minor input here. Daniel's sabotaged diplomacy was nicely handled. That Daniel still tried to set the warring factions on a peaceful course was so Daniel.

-A bit of suspense with the representative from Caledonia, Cain: I wondered if he was an Ori spy. My bad. Poor guy was just desperate.

My con's (quibbles):

-Attack plan should have been followed, esp when they saw that the weapon now had defensive capabilities; or if not willing to leave Daniel, at least institute evasive manuevers as the weapon was repositioning itself. Sat like deer in a headlight.

-IMO, they should have negotiated to destroy the weapon, period. It was built by the Ori and shouldn't be left to fighting factions; just another bone to fight over eventually.

Just sayin', I give this 4/5 stars/astericks, etc. One nicely done dramatic episode, IMO. :jack_new_anime07:

binkpmmc
February 3rd, 2006, 07:15 PM
good but not great. Good because I really feel they could have used Daniel and Teal'c better and the fact that they didn't made the eppy feel off to me. Some good action with the first and second hits on the ship and with it exploding at the end. Glad that rat president got his in the end. Sorry but BB is too wooden in his approach and I can't buy into him or his character as part of the team. I said at the hug "Teal'c better hug her too" but nope and I almost screamed when he didn't - it should have been the other way around especially since we know Teal'c hugs cuz he hugged Janet in RE and it should have been the TEAM at the end - TEAM bonding. We should have seen a Daniel, Carter, Teal'c reunion - another lost opportunity. Pendergast was excellent and that is what a real hero is - someone who puts the SAFETY of his TEAM first - not a schmo running off - oh forget it . . . . Daniel was okay but I felt they could have done better by him, once again he seemed minimized for the guest star of the week - so much of what Jared said and did should really have gone to Daniel - but that's just me and piss poor writing, IMO. Liked the exchange between Daniel and Carter on the radio, at least this eppy showed that the big 3 actually still care about each other. Also Teal'c once again with little to do - I did like the way he reacted to seeing Carter - good emoting but he should have been the one to hug her (I have nothing invested in Mitchell and do not care about his character so I do not want to see him get the hug instead of Teal'c). Teal'c has been first chair in the 302 before - there were 5 302s in the squadron why didn't he get his own - he should have. I would rather see him flying a 302 then playing back seat to Mitchell - but hey that's just me and again piss poor writing, imo, minimizing the strengths of the original characters in favor of the new boy. What good was it having those 2 together when Teal'c had nothing to do - let him fly a damm plane! We know he can!! Finally, they really have devolved into not showing enough - one minute Daniel and Jared are in the commissary the next minute in jail and the rest of them are on the Prometheus. Funny how now they have resorted to not even showing anyone getting ready to go through the Gate and at least getting a glimpse of the Gate as they go - now we just jump from commissary to planet, and jail cell no less - how did that happen? Alas one of the symptoms of the disease that is killing this show, imo. Can't say I'm sorry to see the Prometheus go -- maybe now we will actually get to see the Gate, in action, more often. Next week they are on another planet so I have my fingers crossed that we get to see the Gate in action instead of ok now we're on earth and whoops now we are on the planet.

RZN
February 3rd, 2006, 07:27 PM
I liked it, but I want to know what happened to the weapon? I think it must have been destroyed somehow, because otherwise the Daedalus would have picked it up

Dani347
February 3rd, 2006, 07:29 PM
I did like Mitchell debating whether or not to sit in Landry's chair.

Rule one. Do not make reference to the possibility of a tortured Daniel and not show even a glimpse of a little knocking around.

I didn't feel the sense of the others being torn or finding it difficult to decide not to ask for Daniel's return. Teal'c's response was said in an especially cold manner, to me.

binkpmmc

so much of what Jared said and did should really have gone to Daniel

So, I don't have to sing "The cheese stands alone," about that opinion anymore. No guest star should have more to do or more emphasis than the main characters. Especially in the same scenes.Important recurring characters such as Bra'tac being the exception, and still shouldn't overwhelm things.

Dave Thomer
February 3rd, 2006, 07:30 PM
Well, I was happy with this one. It's good to see some on-screen consequences from going up against the Ori. I know Earth's been on the losing end quite a bit this year, but it hasn't had as much impact as this ep did.

I haven't been thrilled with the Ori themelves since the Fourth Horseman reveal, but I do think this idea of them working through proxies who are legitimately fervent believers has some promise.

Mitchell seemed a bit shaken by the idea that their hesitation is what allowed the satellite to defend itself. I wonder if we're seeing another reason for him to take an aggressive approach and ask questions later.

I appreciate that Daniel's always going to be looking for peaceful settlements, but the fact that he wound up in a jail cell should kind of been a hint about Rand's tendency to negotiate under false pretenses.

the fifth man
February 3rd, 2006, 07:30 PM
I felt somewhat content when the Rand president finally got his at the end. He was, after all, the one who ordered them to keep firing on Prommie.

I totally agree. That a-hole got what he had coming to him. This was a great ep, in my opinion. A very well-done follow-up to last season's "Icon". It was a good story with some great visuals, and of course Daniel Jackson at his best- always the diplomat. Losing Prometheus was tragic, even though I knew it was coming. You just don't feel the true impact until it actually happens though, you know? Pendergast went down with his ship, and was a hero until the end. I salute him.:) This ep gets a 4/5 in my books.

FoolishPleasure
February 3rd, 2006, 07:33 PM
Excellent episode! Still trying to digest so can't comment on specifics yet, but it was true Stargate. (And comparing it to that awful SGA episode afterwards just makes this look ever better! *LOL*)

Thumbs up everyone!

Sheylafan87
February 3rd, 2006, 07:34 PM
I cant believe it, i mean it seems so unfair to kill innocent people and the ship, Why couldnt they just let the ship be. It suckz, i hate when there are scenes where characters die and its so unfair it had to be the ship and god knows maybe some of the crew.

KayMan2k
February 3rd, 2006, 07:35 PM
Other than the promethius getting blown up I liked this episode.

I actually like the fact that the Promie was destroyed. We always expect our heros to win, it is sometimes refreshing (and unpredictable) to see them fail.

I am sad to see it go, given the history of the ship, but it did have a fair amount of screen time for its destruction and made for a very interesting episode.

I felt that this was one of the most SG-1-like episode this season and mentioned the Ori without completly focusing the story on them.

the fifth man
February 3rd, 2006, 07:38 PM
I actually like the fact that the Promie was destroyed. We always expect our heros to win, it is sometimes refreshing (and unpredictable) to see them fail.


While personally I'm sad we had to lose Pendergast and the Prometheus, I agree that it is refreshing to see SG-1 not always come out on top. They've definitely had a rough go of things so far against the Ori. Just like they lost that planet in "The Powers That Be" to the Ori. I think such failures help to show what a dangerous, powerful foe we are facing.

darman
February 3rd, 2006, 07:44 PM
Marks becomes the helmsman of the Odyssey. I think they were just showing fear.

Well if they did, then they failed or the actor did. To me he acted as if he did something wrong. And in any case why should we care if he becomes the helmsman of the Odyssey The non-recurring crew members are usually considered fodder.;)

Dani347
February 3rd, 2006, 07:51 PM
The scene where Sam came back, I didn't get the impression that Mitchell's reaction was more important or heartfelt than Teal'c's. Teal'c's expression was definitely full of emotion, and it seemed to me that he wanted to be able to look at her. I felt the holding her the arms and staring into her eyes when he said that they feared the worst had a big emotional impact.

And, one nice thing in the cell after the Prometheus blew up and Jared was saying all of Daniel's lines (grr) was they cut to Daniel and when the commander dude started talking about what the pror did, Daniel's head turned slightly towards them. Like the whole time he hadn't heard a word, because he was in shock, but that managed to penetrate his fog. I like the idea that he was so lost that he couldn't participate. And, yes, at the same time I hate that Jared was doing all the talking.

And, no face to face reunion with Daniel. What is it with Damian Kindler (hope I'm getting the right person to be miffed at) and all Daniel reunions with SG1 after being in trouble happening long distance? And, I still didn't feel the emotion when they found out for sure he was okay. I heard the words, but a split second smile when hearing his voice? It sucks that the reaction shot had to go to Teal'c and Mitchell when they had those helmets on.

Bobthespirit
February 3rd, 2006, 08:00 PM
Overall I thought it was a good episode, but they tried too hard to be Star Trek-preachy.

This episode reminded me of that episode of Star Trek - Next Generation that got banned in Ireland for being a too simplistic reproduction of the IRA situation.

Okay, we get it. Cycle of violence, deals breaking down, it's supposed to be an Israel/Palestine reference.

The action of the episode was good though. I was surprised they blew up the Prometheus, and I liked the tension as the episode progressed. Just, the attempted real world analogy was too forced.

Dani347
February 3rd, 2006, 08:02 PM
Is it against the rules to have beer on a military facility period, or just when you're on duty? I wouldn't know myself. But, I'll confess I liked the scene so much -Mitchell seeking Daniel out, giving him credit, probably in an attempt to make him feel better over everything- that I really wouldn't have cared if it had been against the rules. There was so little for me to like. But, still, I thought it was clear Mitchell wasn't on duty, and Daniel could very well have been there after hours, which would mean he wasn't officially on duty either. Would that still have been a breach of military rules?

Dannygirl
February 3rd, 2006, 08:02 PM
I actually like the fact that the Promie was destroyed. We always expect our heros to win, it is sometimes refreshing (and unpredictable) to see them fail.

I am sad to see it go, given the history of the ship, but it did have a fair amount of screen time for its destruction and made for a very interesting episode.

I felt that this was one of the most SG-1-like episode this season and mentioned the Ori without completly focusing the story on them.

The Promie's destruction was why I gave this epi a 5/5. I didn't like to see it go at all. How crazy to say this, but there's an emotional connection there. It covered SG-1 from Anubis when they were getting to the outpost in Antartica, and it was the first of our ships, so that always gives it superiority over all others. Yes, when I saw the first blast I thought, "It'll recover". I saw the second and then saw those people get blown out to space and it was a shock. And then it went, along with Pendergast, and all it could do was just sit there because there was nothing else it could do. It would be slightly different if it fell in an all out battle, but it didn't. This was slow, brutal (not to mention cruel) and cold hearted. That President guy actually was enjoying it which made it worse. This epi showed that nothing we have (Asgard shields and all) can match the Ori's tech. Kudos to the writers, this was a good epi.

AGateFan
February 3rd, 2006, 08:06 PM
Is it against the rules to have beer on a military facility period, or just when you're on duty? I wouldn't know myself. But, I'll confess I liked the scene so much -Mitchell seeking Daniel out, giving him credit, probably in an attempt to make him feel better over everything- that I really wouldn't have cared if it had been against the rules. There was so little for me to like. But, still, I thought it was clear Mitchell wasn't on duty, and Daniel could very well have been there after hours, which would mean he wasn't officially on duty either. Would that still have been a breach of military rules?
Take a beer into your workplace on Monday and see how that works out.
I know how it would work out at my current place of employement and I know how it would have worked out when I was in the USAF.

The beer in the scene was not appropriate and not necessary. They could have accomplished the same thing with Soda or OJ or if they really had to have a beer they could have said at the end of the scene "lets go get a beer" or had the scene outside the facility. Its my only real gripe with the ep.
I mean I didnt like Promie and Pendergast getting snuffed but what can you do.... Oh and will someone just get put in charge already, so someone will make a freaking decision.

kymeric
February 3rd, 2006, 08:07 PM
I was glad that They nuked eachother in the end. The whole time i was cursing saying u better Throw a nuke through afterwords!!

Prometheus had a good run

mi4si
February 3rd, 2006, 08:10 PM
nooooooo

yowo
February 3rd, 2006, 08:12 PM
:sam: :jack: :tealc: :daniel:

Wow, Great show, I felt like I came home.
You really felt like the team cared about each other for a change.
Amanda was superb!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Christopher did a great job!
Michael was fantastic!
They even mentioned Jack. That is what we all long to hear.
Besides Ripple Effect this is in my opinion the best episode yet this season.
This episode feels like our old Stargate SG-1.
THANK YOU!

WraithReaper1234
February 3rd, 2006, 08:12 PM
I just watched ethon and the prometheous is gone. The ori are defently a real threat even with asgard shields the satalites beam weapon cut through the shields like butter. The first shot went right through the shields through the ship and out the other side. The ori are defently the asgards problem now. One thing I thought was extermly stupid is they used air to air missiles against it. Doesn't the promie have nukes? They could of vaporized it when it shields were up probaly. But anyways they fired three shots to destroy the promie the third cut her right in two. What I found that was odd is the trailer was not in the episode at all. It shows the satlite being blown up this never happened. If these are just ori defence satalites we will be no match for any of there ships. Hopefully we can get the orion there and give them a run for there money. Again I don't think even the asgard will be able to fight them. I have a question were the promie shields old asgard shields or just upgraded "regular" shields. Becuase if there asgard then were screwed I don't know how we will get out of this one. Hopefully the ancients will get there asses in gear and help perhaps the furlings will finnaly show up.

TechnoBoY
February 3rd, 2006, 08:14 PM
I was pleasantly surprised! Great ep! I liked it a lot! None of that Mitchell, sub-plot nonsense. Best episode of the season yet. Sad to see a character I kinda liked die though. And no more Prometheus!

mi4si
February 3rd, 2006, 08:14 PM
Take a beer into your workplace on Monday and see how that works out.
I know how it would work out at my current place of employement and I know how it would have worked out when I was in the USAF.

The beer in the scene was not appropriate and not necessary. They could have accomplished the same thing with Soda or OJ or if they really had to have a beer they could have said at the end of the scene "lets go get a beer" or had the scene outside the facility. Its my only real gripe with the ep.
I mean I didnt like Promie and Pendergast getting snuffed but what can you do.... Oh and will someone just get put in charge already, so someone will make a freaking decision.

well when my cpt got word he was promoted to major we had beer at the workplace, after work. one beer that is so everyone could drive or the proper precautions were taken, but there was beer nonetheless. I haven't finished the episode yet but just saying it is possible.

majorsal
February 3rd, 2006, 08:16 PM
very good ep. :D

the battle scenes and prometheus going down was fantastic! *salutes pendergast*

the rest of the story was quite... real. and not in a good way, if you know what i mean. :weiranime34: --> :tealc39:

loved the moments where we saw everyone caring about each other. (that's something that's been lacking for quite a while)

mitchell didn't one-line tonight. yay!

where was landry? okay, i know he was in washington, but why wasn't beau bridges available?

ernie hudson's character was a pretty good guy. :(

kane is prob dead, isn't he? :(

isn't it scary how one can feel so peaceful and 'oh, let's work this out', but when the monsters fire upon and kill your own... you want to wipe them out of existance? i felt that. scared me.

a good ep. one i'll rewatch. ;)




sally :)

NotAscended
February 3rd, 2006, 08:16 PM
The Promie's destruction was why I gave this epi a 5/5. I didn't like to see it go at all. How crazy to say this, but there's an emotional connection there. It covered SG-1 from Anubis when they were getting to the outpost in Antartica, and it was the first of our ships, so that always gives it superiority over all others. Yes, when I saw the first blast I thought, "It'll recover". I saw the second and then saw those people get blown out to space and it was a shock. And then it went, along with Pendergast, and all it could do was just sit there because there was nothing else it could do. It would be slightly different if it fell in an all out battle, but it didn't. This was slow, brutal (not to mention cruel) and cold hearted. That President guy actually was enjoying it which made it worse. This epi showed that nothing we have (Asgard shields and all) can match the Ori's tech. Kudos to the writers, this was a good epi.

Seeing the Prometheus and Pendergast go was one of the saddest moments in the series for me. It was scary not only for the fact that it shows how outmatched we are by the Ori's tech, but also that there is a vicious core to the faith of their true followers that is just as dangerous. THAT aspect of the Ori's power is really scary.

Dani347
February 3rd, 2006, 08:17 PM
Take a beer into your workplace on Monday and see how that works out.

Well, there was the Christmas party that we had during hours, and the champagne they served. Although it wasn't a military facility.



The beer in the scene was not appropriate and not necessary. They could have accomplished the same thing with Soda or OJ

Yes, that's true. For me, the beer had as much impact as if it had been a soda (please no OJ. Brings back bad memories of a certain scene in RE). I can understand it bothering others, but for me, it was as minor a thing in the scene compared to what was happening as, say, if it had been a soda and the brand name was clear. Um, stupid example. But, I just mean what they were drinking was a minor concern for me compared to the shared moment between the two of them.

the fifth man
February 3rd, 2006, 08:21 PM
Is it against the rules to have beer on a military facility period, or just when you're on duty? I wouldn't know myself. But, I'll confess I liked the scene so much -Mitchell seeking Daniel out, giving him credit, probably in an attempt to make him feel better over everything- that I really wouldn't have cared if it had been against the rules. There was so little for me to like. But, still, I thought it was clear Mitchell wasn't on duty, and Daniel could very well have been there after hours, which would mean he wasn't officially on duty either. Would that still have been a breach of military rules?

Well, you know what they say - "When the General's away....":D

GatetheWay
February 3rd, 2006, 08:25 PM
I wanted Mitchell to destroy that satalite soooo badly. They killed Prommie and Pendergast! They needed to play!

It's a shame we wont be seeing Jarod around anymore since he's proably dead. I really liked the guy. When he first came through the gate in teh begining you could see and hear how deprested, devistated and desperate he was. I like him in Icon too. Though I have to wonder why he went back to the planet with Daniel when it was dead obvious they were going to charge him with treason.

What a dark ending but I loved it. Everything is not all and good in the galaxy and people do die. I think this ep is IMO the best this season. My hopes for season 9 had slowly been waning even though I like Stronghold but this has iven me new hope.

And aboutthe beer...I thought it was very aproprite since Mitchell was off duty and all this really depressing crap has happened.

So far the count is...
Ori- 2 (The Powers That Be & Ethon)
SGC-2 (Beachhead & The Fourth Horseman)

ToasterOnFire
February 3rd, 2006, 08:27 PM
The beer in the scene was not appropriate and not necessary. They could have accomplished the same thing with Soda or OJ or if they really had to have a beer they could have said at the end of the scene "lets go get a beer" or had the scene outside the facility. Its my only real gripe with the ep.
I think it was just another opportunity for the franchise to pimp Coors. And out of all the beers to promote...blech... :D

majorsal
February 3rd, 2006, 08:28 PM
Man, I had tears in my eyes when Pendergast wouldn't leave the ship, I knew he would be the Captain to go down with his ship.

i almost cried too. :(

:sam59: <-- pendergast and prometheus --> :cameron21:



sally :)

Michelle05
February 3rd, 2006, 08:30 PM
My word, this was an incredible episode. I was on the edge of my seat from beginning to end and felt very moved by the whole thing. This might become one of my top ten SG-1 eps of all time.

The plotting was so tight and and just flowed along from one twist to the next. I loved the intelligence of the strategies employed all around by all 3 sides. I wasn't able to guess what was about to happen, yet once it did, it made sense to me.

I was very sad for Leda. And Pendergast died a tragic hero's death. His closing his eyes just before was so sad. I'm sure he was thinking of his family. Sniff.

Daniel was "Daniel" again, arguing for the peaceful, win/win solution and he almost succeeded. The line about never giving up even when he's dead made me LOL. So true! I loved his grief when he thought his friends were all dead.

We got such good team moments: everyone was concerned for each other without being sappy. The losses were felt. Mitchell was very likeable this time IMO.

Poor Sam sure underestimated the satellite's technology, didn't she? This ep shows the havoc that the SGC has wreaked on on planet, from causing the world war to inviting the Ori to our galaxy. I wonder how poor Daniel can sleep at night!

The guest characters were all great. I loved the Rand General and was glad to see the President buy the farm. I find it hard to relate to anyone buying the Origin religion but I guess it's really happened, hasn't it.

I could go on, but I'll just say thanks and well done, Damian! It exceeded all my expectations and gave a lot of food for thought too.

Dani347
February 3rd, 2006, 08:30 PM
I'm fine with them losing this one. Realistic and all. But, when was the last time Daniel won a victory? Enemy Mine?

majorsal
February 3rd, 2006, 08:34 PM
-Shared command nod! Loved that neither Cam nor Sam would sit in the "Big Chair." Nice touch, having Cam debate with himself whether to sit there or not, and deciding not. Hmmm. Why does Sam smile like that when Cam nixes the chair? Hmm-hmm. ;)

i loved that scene! :D



-More or less a team ep, altho Teal'c had minor input here. Daniel's sabotaged diplomacy was nicely handled. That Daniel still tried to set the warring factions on a peaceful course was so Daniel.

i know. i love that side of daniel. ;)




sally :)

majorsal
February 3rd, 2006, 08:38 PM
Teal'c has been first chair in the 302 before - there were 5 302s in the squadron why didn't he get his own - he should have. I would rather see him flying a 302 then playing back seat to Mitchell - but hey that's just me and again piss poor writing, imo, minimizing the strengths of the original characters in favor of the new boy.

i agree. i was wondering the same thing. teal'c could fly mitchell around the block with his pinkie. pinkie fingernail! :p

*protective of the original powerful three team*



sally :)

majorsal
February 3rd, 2006, 08:49 PM
The scene where Sam came back, I didn't get the impression that Mitchell's reaction was more important or heartfelt than Teal'c's. Teal'c's expression was definitely full of emotion, and it seemed to me that he wanted to be able to look at her. I felt the holding her the arms and staring into her eyes when he said that they feared the worst had a big emotional impact.

i felt mitchell's reaction was normal and nice, but it was teal'c's that showed the years of friendship and love between one another. a beautiful and perfect scene.




And, one nice thing in the cell after the Prometheus blew up and Jared was saying all of Daniel's lines (grr) was they cut to Daniel and when the commander dude started talking about what the pror did, Daniel's head turned slightly towards them. Like the whole time he hadn't heard a word, because he was in shock, but that managed to penetrate his fog. I like the idea that he was so lost that he couldn't participate. And, yes, at the same time I hate that Jared was doing all the talking.


i liked the way that scene played out because for once, FOR ONCE, they showed someone grieving. they've fallen away from that, giving the impression that everyone doesn't give a crap about anyone else. i liked seeing daniel hurting and in his own private moment of grief. but yes, he wasn't 'out of it' and heard what was going on.



sally :)

Hyperspace
February 3rd, 2006, 08:49 PM
Sounds to me like the Ori tech penetrating Prometheus shields, leading to Prometheus destruction showed the true threat...

Sort of like the Dominion tech penetrating the Odyssey's shields, leading to the Odyssey's destruction (by ramming), in DS9.

majorsal
February 3rd, 2006, 08:51 PM
Is it against the rules to have beer on a military facility period, or just when you're on duty? I wouldn't know myself. But, I'll confess I liked the scene so much -Mitchell seeking Daniel out, giving him credit, probably in an attempt to make him feel better over everything- that I really wouldn't have cared if it had been against the rules. There was so little for me to like. But, still, I thought it was clear Mitchell wasn't on duty, and Daniel could very well have been there after hours, which would mean he wasn't officially on duty either. Would that still have been a breach of military rules?

well, i didn't like seeing mitchell drinking on the base, but i'll give daniel a pass because he's not military. but it was a small nitpick for me.



sally :)

Traveler Enroute1
February 3rd, 2006, 08:51 PM
Rule one. Do not make reference to the possibility of a tortured Daniel and not show even a glimpse of a little knocking around.

LOL! I thought the same, Dani347: Yipe, here we go, whumped Danny! Alas, no. :o

Just playin' just sayin', teasers. :daniel23: :danielanime08: ;)

JUNIOR
February 3rd, 2006, 08:53 PM
I liked it, but I want to know what happened to the weapon? I think it must have been destroyed somehow, because otherwise the Daedalus would have picked it up


Thats exactly what I was thinking! I mean if they blew themselves up then the weapon should be ours for the taking. Its only fitting that SGC get it seeing that they blew up Earth's ship. Thats the least that Earth should get for all the crap that we took trying to help them.

tony
February 3rd, 2006, 08:56 PM
I really liked the episode..........BUT... i think they could have made Prometheus shoot off a few more shots at least... or at least do a few evasive manuvers :( I am not at all saying it was a bad episode... i think it was the best episode to date so far... freaking awsome. but, i just wish after alll the crap we have seen the Prometheus go through.. I would have at least liked to see it do a few fly bys and launch a few more then 2 missles :)

JUNIOR
February 3rd, 2006, 08:58 PM
I just wish I was in command of the SGC on that day I would had been like, f**k em', f**k em' all!!!! I would had ordered a naquadria bomb sent to their fair planet to send a message that nobody blows up an earth ship and gets away with it!!! They would be lucky if they got a chance to kill each other off fast enough.

majorsal
February 3rd, 2006, 08:59 PM
And Pendergast died a tragic hero's death. His closing his eyes just before was so sad. I'm sure he was thinking of his family. Sniff.



i think if i were landry, i'd only have single persons work for the sgc program. or, at least the ppl on sg teams and ship duty.




sally :)

GatetheWay
February 3rd, 2006, 09:01 PM
I just wish I was in command of the SGC on that day I would had been like, f**k em', f**k em' all!!!! I would had ordered a naquadria bomb sent to their fair planet to send a message that nobody blows up an earth ship and gets away with it!!! They would be lucky if they got a chance to kill each other off fast enough.
What would be the point of doing that if you only succeed in doing one of two things... A) you hurt your own people on the ground who survived Prommie or B) strand them all by destroying the gate.

Dannygirl
February 3rd, 2006, 09:05 PM
You know, it's funny that in order to cause a civil war all they had to do was step through a gate. This tells me that things were completely unstable to begin with and the walk through the gate was the "straw". I don't know why, but when I think of this storyline, I think of the Tolan sl. Two completely different civilizations whose end came about not because of the Goa'uld or Ori, but because their own structure collapsed right in front of them. And in both, there were good people trying to stop it and died at the end...Really sad.

As for the beer, I'm not surprised. I've heard of worse things done within military compounds (and I mean pranks and breaking minor rules and such). I honestly thought it was warranted and a good scene. Good acting. As Majorsal said, it was good to finally see grief, esp given how painful it was to watch that scene. Seeing the two drink the beer being depressed seemed right.

As for Daniel's refusal to give up, well....his character's one to aspire to.

Kliggins
February 3rd, 2006, 09:09 PM
Good episode. Nice followup for Icon.

Yay for Ernie Hudson and Matthew Bennett.

Liked the chair scene.

Gonna miss Promethius and Lionel Pendergast with that interesting last name.

I am going to watch the repeat and I haven't done that in a while.

Johnquixote
February 3rd, 2006, 09:12 PM
Take a beer into your workplace on Monday and see how that works out.
I know how it would work out at my current place of employement and I know how it would have worked out when I was in the USAF.

The beer in the scene was not appropriate and not necessary. They could have accomplished the same thing with Soda or OJ or if they really had to have a beer they could have said at the end of the scene "lets go get a beer" or had the scene outside the facility. Its my only real gripe with the ep.
I mean I didnt like Promie and Pendergast getting snuffed but what can you do.... Oh and will someone just get put in charge already, so someone will make a freaking decision.
These people are out risking their butts for Earth and others, they deserve a beer. Not to mention Mitchell (and Sam) being the next highest ranking officer on base next to Landry. Its not the first time SG-1 has broken regulations and its very trivial compared to them. And Mitchell was in civilian attire, indicating he wasn't on duty. After a day like this, if Landry were there I could see him having one with him.

NotAscended
February 3rd, 2006, 09:13 PM
You know, it's funny that in order to cause a civil war all they had to do was step through a gate. This tells me that things were completely unstable to begin with and the walk through the gate was the "straw". I don't know why, but when I think of this storyline, I think of the Tolan sl. Two completely different civilizations whose end came about not because of the Goa'uld or Ori, but because their own structure collapsed right in front of them. And in both, there were good people trying to stop it and died at the end...Really sad..

Nicely said. Although SG1 will always feel badly that they couldn't have done anything to fix the situation, it was really their own internal strife that doomed their planet.




As for the beer, I'm not surprised. I've heard of worse things done within military compounds (and I mean pranks and breaking minor rules and such). I honestly thought it was warranted and a good scene. Good acting. As Majorsal said, it was good to finally see grief, esp given how painful it was to watch that scene.



Plus, it isn't as if Cheyenne Mountain isn't a second home for the team (or their only home, in Teal'c's case). I think it should be expected that in their off hours on base the regs might be relaxed a bit for them.

Dannygirl
February 3rd, 2006, 09:40 PM
Seeing the Prometheus and Pendergast go was one of the saddest moments in the series for me. It was scary not only for the fact that it shows how outmatched we are by the Ori's tech, but also that there is a vicious core to the faith of their true followers that is just as dangerous. THAT aspect of the Ori's power is really scary.

That part is probably the scariest of all. Tech can be overcome (as seen by the Goa'uld), but face a group of people who are so powerful in their collective belief that they see nothing but that...and then combine them with Ancient tech.

Truth be told, I honestly had the thought that if SG-1 wanted to loosen the Ori's hold in the Milky Way with the planets they've already converted, the only way to do that would be to show the Ori as liars. And the only way to do that would be to show off that dead Prior from the 4th Horseman. Take him to every converted planet and say the exact same thing that Daniel said in SG: the movie, "Take a good look at your Gods now". No ascension! Yes, this would be crude, but effective. He could be buried later.

Lieutenant Colonel Davis
February 3rd, 2006, 10:22 PM
Well, I guess Pendergast was the non-regular they said they were going to kill off this season. I liked Pendergast, the writers should not have killed him off. His death was just dumb.

NakedJehutyV2
February 3rd, 2006, 10:33 PM
I knew we should taken out the satellite when we had the chance

and I also felt alittle of the old episodes of Stargate. I liked this episode.

Pendergast - "How could it penetrate our Asguard designed shields"
Carter - "I don't know sir"

?? does this mean they don't think the ori are capable of getting past puny asguard shields. Well compared to ASCENDED being there puny


don't forget that satelite was made with low level tech. if it was ori made it'd be far more deadly. plus the ori have the knowledge of ascended being (infinite?). they can make far worse things. asgard us and the rest of the universe (cept alterrans) are screwed. alterrans should give the asgard better tech.

NakedJehutyV2
February 3rd, 2006, 10:37 PM
also best sg1 s9 ep so far.

Nate
February 3rd, 2006, 10:41 PM
don't forget that satelite was made with low level tech. if it was ori made it'd be far more deadly. plus the ori have the knowledge of ascended being (infinite?). they can make far worse things. asgard us and the rest of the universe (cept alterrans) are screwed. alterrans should give the asgard better tech.
Excuse me but the alterans need to get off their lazy butts and bring the fight to the Ori.

Dang.. I just realized something, and not sure if anyone else noticed it yet (though I bet someone has.. ) The Ancients (alterans, however you want to call em) are Vorlons, and the Ori are Shadows.... So does this mean that Mitchell (or Daniel.. but he has done it so many times he must have his own ascention elevator) will ascend then deascend make a long winded speech about how we don't need either of them anymore and kick them out of the known universe?? Hmm... ;)

Buzz Lightyear
February 3rd, 2006, 10:42 PM
Why in the world did they find it necessary to destroy prometheous?? I think that was really stupid, and I think this show is on the verge of running aground in dumb-land. Earth needs to step it up a notch and actually find some weapons and shields that actually work.

You think Earth shouldn't sustain any major losses in its fight against the Ori?

Stargate stories have always followed the time-honoured principle of playing the underdog against superior foes. Where would the tension (and fun) be if Prometheus could just waltz in and blow up anything it wanted to? Besides, it's getting a little dated as far as ship designs go. I'm sure we'll get to see some newer models.

The destruction of Prometheus is also significant because now, the Asgard really have to sit up and take notice, with the Ori starting to equip their followers with weapons that can breach Asgard shielding.

Buzz Lightyear
February 3rd, 2006, 10:50 PM
What makes it even more tragic is the fact a puny race like that, that got their hands on something more advanced (like us btw :p) destroyed us. I would have no hard feelings if were someone like the Ori who did, but the puny guys down there :(.

It's also a perfect example of what happens when a race of people are handed technology far too advanced for them to know how to use responsibly. And exactly the reason why the Asgard gave Earth advanced propulsion, shields and beaming tech but not weapons.

Buzz Lightyear
February 3rd, 2006, 11:02 PM
So, I guess Rand and Caledonia are no more after this one. Seems like a bit of a copout though after the final scenes on the planet, felt a little too deus ex machina-ish for me.

Actually, it would have been too neat and tidy for that spur-of-the-moment agreement brokered by Daniel to have been successful. I mean, Rand was asking for the entire nation of Caledonia to give up their home and be relocated to another planet. That's a bit much, don't you think? Especially considering how long the two countries have been hostile to each other. I think the dark twist at the end was well-done. It was unexpected (in a Stargate story), yet made perfect sense, given the setting. Not at all deus ex machina, imo.

Xanderic
February 3rd, 2006, 11:13 PM
In my opinion, this episode made rebalanced stargate's realistic scale. The 303 class (Prommie/ Daed) seemed to be portrayed as a indestructible spaceship.

Obviously this isn't true now that we've seen it.

This episode was pretty good except for one thing:
The Hesitation of the Prommie Crew.

I know they care for Daniel, especially now that Oma isn't there to re-ascend him if he dies. Also, the schematics Kane brought to Earth were EARLY schematics. I'm pretty sure shields would definately be added. With that said, they should have automatically destroyed the satellite upon exiting hyperspace and then destroy the Rand Protectorate bunker. Also, Daniel's location beacon should have been a tiny little thing that he could attack to his glasses or watch or something.

DrDJackson
February 3rd, 2006, 11:24 PM
Whoever thought up this ep needs to be shot.... not for thinking up the ep... but using the Prometheus.... use the Daedalus or Odyssey they dont deserve to be active and working..... they all suck... Im very disappointed in the creative staff as well as JM.....

Xanderic
February 3rd, 2006, 11:33 PM
Whoever thought up this ep needs to be shot.... not for thinking up the ep... but using the Prometheus.... use the Daedalus or Odyssey they dont deserve to be active and working..... they all suck... Im very disappointed in the creative staff as well as JM.....

You need to be shot. The episode is brilliant.
1) The Daedalus is in Atlantis
2) The Odyssey isn't even finished building yet and will not be shown for another 2 episodes.
3) They had to use the Prometheus or else the episode couldn't be called Ethon, the bird that gnawed on the organs of Prometheus, which is exactly what happened in the episode.
4) They just didn't think that there would be shields either.
5) Prometheus means to think after. SG-1 didn't take everything into consideration before going to the planet. Perfect parallelism to the Prometheus.

tflux
February 3rd, 2006, 11:42 PM
At first I was like "WOW", great episode. And I still do think it was a great episode, but I'm kind of pissed off... I think.

Pendergast died for what? They got the Prometheus blown up for what? I suspect that weapon will come into play later in the season, but if not... what a waste. The amount of naquadah to build a ship that size just to have it shot down by a bunch of brainwashed industrial-age nutjobs? Ugh. To make things worse, the people they were trying to save still blew the living hell out of each other.

Arg. So confused! I'm going to miss both the Prometheus and Pendergast.

Buzz Lightyear
February 3rd, 2006, 11:45 PM
Overall I thought it was a good episode, but they tried too hard to be Star Trek-preachy.

This episode reminded me of that episode of Star Trek - Next Generation that got banned in Ireland for being a too simplistic reproduction of the IRA situation.

Okay, we get it. Cycle of violence, deals breaking down, it's supposed to be an Israel/Palestine reference.

The action of the episode was good though. I was surprised they blew up the Prometheus, and I liked the tension as the episode progressed. Just, the attempted real world analogy was too forced.

I didn't get the sense the episode was preachy at all. If there were any real world analogies being made, I thought it was more along the line of the US/Soviet's now-defunct Cold War and the principle of MAD (mutual assured destruction). That's nothing like Israel/Palestine which do not have equal capabilities of destroying each other. It's more like on Earth we survived a similar stand-off because cooler heads and diplomacy prevailed. The folks in Rand/Caledonia weren't so fortunate.

Is the Star Trek episode you're referencing from season 3 of the original series - "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield"? That's the one with two deadly antagonists, one was black on one half of his body, white on the other half, while the other person had the coloration reversed. And their sole reason for hating each other was that coloration difference. If that's the one they banned in Ireland, then that's very sad indeed.

Buzz Lightyear
February 3rd, 2006, 11:58 PM
Poor Sam sure underestimated the satellite's technology, didn't she? This ep shows the havoc that the SGC has wreaked on on planet, from causing the world war to inviting the Ori to our galaxy. I wonder how poor Daniel can sleep at night!


Thats exactly what I was thinking! I mean if they blew themselves up then the weapon should be ours for the taking. Its only fitting that SGC get it seeing that they blew up Earth's ship. Thats the least that Earth should get for all the crap that we took trying to help them.

The arrival of SG1 from Earth (in episode 805 "Icon") was what triggered the latest confrontation between Rand and Caledonia. And being the meddlesome folks they are, the SGC gets caught in the crossfire between the two warring nations. How many times has the well-intentioned bystander try to break up a bar brawl only to get stabbed himself?

To be fair, Rand and Caledonia would have likely launched nuclear attacks on each other eventually, given their inability to find ANY common ground (guess they didn't have anyone like Jonas Quinn who was the voice of reason on Kelowna). SG1's involvement only sped up that development. However, I think we can place the blame for the appearance of the Priors in our galaxy squarely on the shoulders of the SGC.

Xanderic
February 3rd, 2006, 11:59 PM
At first I was like "WOW", great episode. And I still do think it was a great episode, but I'm kind of pissed off... I think.

Pendergast died for what? They got the Prometheus blown up for what? I suspect that weapon will come into play later in the season, but if not... what a waste. The amount of naquadah to build a ship that size just to have it shot down by a bunch of brainwashed industrial-age nutjobs? Ugh. To make things worse, the people they were trying to save still blew the living hell out of each other.

Arg. So confused! I'm going to miss both the Prometheus and Pendergast.

Stargate has overall been a realistic show. But with the Orii in this season, it seems that Earth is more or less prevailing. Sort of a godly status but not godly at all, if you get my drift. In order for the show to stay realistic, ships have to be destroyed and people have to die. Not everything can have an extremely happy ending.

DrDJackson
February 4th, 2006, 12:05 AM
Xander..... the new ship will be shown next week... go check the episode guide....

the_cadpig
February 4th, 2006, 12:21 AM
Originally posted by tflux
Pendergast died for what? They got the Prometheus blown up for what? I suspect that weapon will come into play later in the season, but if not... what a waste. The amount of naquadah to build a ship that size just to have it shot down by a bunch of brainwashed industrial-age nutjobs? Ugh. To make things worse, the people they were trying to save still blew the living hell out of each other.

What can you say? War is hell. That's the realism of it, and it doesn't always make sense. I appreciated that.

Also, I can't believe the beer scene is getting so nitpicked. Gotta tell ya. I was in a field unit for 14 years and during that time, we had plenty of beer. And yes, it was kept and consumed sometimes in the workplace with the full knowledge of the company commander. Mostly because the workplace was also the living place most of the time. As long as we weren't on duty and as long as people didn't over do things and get stupid, it was cool. That particular scene I could identify with... alot. Real bad day. Beer. That's real.

~cp

Dromag67
February 4th, 2006, 12:25 AM
Great episode 4 stars.


Very sad to see Prommie and Pendergast go the way of the dodo bird, but it was necesarry and will be missed. :(

Seastallion
February 4th, 2006, 12:44 AM
What can you say? War is hell. That's the realism of it, and it doesn't always make sense. I appreciated that.

Also, I can't believe the beer scene is getting so nitpicked. Gotta tell ya. I was in a field unit for 14 years and during that time, we had plenty of beer. And yes, it was kept and consumed sometimes in the workplace with the full knowledge of the company commander. Mostly because the workplace was also the living place most of the time. As long as we weren't on duty and as long as people didn't over do things and get stupid, it was cool. That particular scene I could identify with... alot. Real bad day. Beer. That's real.

~cp

I agree. I was in the Air Force, and we never kept alchohol around our immediate workplace, but you could buy beer on base at either the commissary or at an 0nbase bar or restuarant. In any case, I don't think either Daniel or Mitchell were on actual duty. I lived on base and people were drinking all the time... off duty, and away from the work areas. It looked to me like they were in Daniel's personal work area, one of his homes away from home. SG-1 has hanged around a lot in there, wether on duty or not.

As to the episode... It was great..! ;) I'm really going to miss the Prometheus though... :( Farewell, fine ship...

Xanderic
February 4th, 2006, 12:49 AM
Xander..... the new ship will be shown next week... go check the episode guide....

Doesn't matter. The point i'm getting across is that it hasn't been shown yet. Therefore, they can't use the Odyssesy in Ethon. It's either shown in The Scourge or Off the Grid... i forget which one is first and it's almost 2am and I'm tired and don't feel like checking right now. But it's in one of those two which is either 9x16 or 9x17. And Ethon is 9x15.

AnotherEvilAlien
February 4th, 2006, 01:26 AM
I may be new here, but I have been watching SG-1 since Season 3.


Honestly, I hated this episode. Killing off the Prometheus was unwarranted and unneeded. Now, I could have understand some epic space battle where the Prometheus dished out some whupass and eventually got taken out (for instance, back in Lost City, Part 2 - had Prometheus been destroyed then, it would have been better that way than this way).

However, the Prometheus got it's ass kicked like a red-headed step child. Personally, I don't find that to be entertaining. Why not kill off Earth now? Just kill of SG-1. Hell, they're replaceable, Ben Browder proved that. Just kill the entire cast, yeah.

The worst part about it is that the writers seem to have killed off Prometheus simply because of a quick one-liner that Teal'C gave back in Ripple Effect. I'm sorry, but just because the Prometheus was lost in an alternative dimension DOES NOT mean it has to happen here.


My take: good acting, good effects, good characters. HORRIBLE writing. I was quite disgusted to see Prometheus die an undeserving and pointless death, along with Pendergast. The fact that so many of the crew was lost and that the Rand and Caldonian people just ended up killing themselves anyways, this episode quite honestly sucked. It seems like the writers hit a bit of an emo bump and decided just said "screw it" and did something grand and dramatic - only it wasn't and it wasn't needed.

I'm not saying we shouldn't kill off characters like Pendergast, or destroy things like the Prometheus, but why the hell did they have to do it the way they did? Hell, it would be like if next week, the Wraith just show up and blow up Atlantis - just like that. Not only is it a bad plot course, but it's unneeded and quite noninteresting.

However, that's just one fan's take on things. Had the Prometheus dished out some pain and kicked some butt before going down, I'd be rooting and tooting for this episode, but the writers just took a dump on this episode. It sucked, to be completely blunt and honest.


I actually like the fact that the Promie was destroyed. We always expect our heros to win, it is sometimes refreshing (and unpredictable) to see them fail.


So then you'd be okay if the writers decided to kill all of SG-1? Have Dr. Weir thrown to a bunch of hungry Wraiths? Atlantis fall into the sea?

Also, a person can fail and not die. McKay failed compaired to Carter - that doesn't mean we should throw him into a pit of lava or blow him up.

The writers COULD have had Pendergast fail to destroy the satellite, yet still live at the end of the day. This way, we see the heros are flawed and can fail - only we don't blow them up into tiny little chunks. Pendergast was an awesome character, and I am sad to see him gone. The Prometheus is replaceable by Earth, yes, but that ship had a lot of character also.

AutumnDream
February 4th, 2006, 02:18 AM
Prometheus got fried as foreshadowing to the fact that the Ori can beat us to hell and back with or without Asgard help. :D

Good episode!

PS: OMG DANIEL WATCH OUT KANE IS A CYLON!

Valisnor
February 4th, 2006, 02:33 AM
This ep was great. I think it showed the power that the Ori have and are capable of give beyond the old magic trick of healing poeple. For the first time it's shown that they do have some knowledge that is physical and directly threatening earth(not counting beachhead and the giant gate). Sorry to see Premmy go but hey what a way to go that was great :D.

kazzyk
February 4th, 2006, 02:41 AM
I may be near here, but I have been watching SG-1 since Season 3.


Honestly, I hated this episode. Killing off the Prometheus was unwarranted and unneeded. Now, I could have understand some epic space battle where the Prometheus dished out some whupass and eventually got taken out (for instance, back in Lost City, Part 2 - had Prometheus been destroyed then, it would have been better that way than this way).

However, the Prometheus got it's ass kicked like a red-headed step child. Personally, I don't find that to be entertaining. Why not kill off Earth now? Just kill of SG-1. Hell, they're replaceable, Ben Browder proved that. Just kill the entire cast, yeah.

The worst part about it is that the writers seem to have killed off Prometheus simply because of a quick one-liner that Teal'C gave back in Ripple Effect. I'm sorry, but just because the Prometheus was lost in an alternative dimension DOES NOT mean it has to happen here.


My take: good acting, good effects, good characters. HORRIBLE writing. I was quite disgusted to see Prometheus die an undeserving and pointless death. The fact that so many of the crew was lost and that the Rand and Caldonian people just ended up killing themselves, this episode quite honestly sucked. It seems like the writers hit a bit of an emo bump and decided just said "screw it" and did something grand and dramatic - only it wasn't and it wasn't needed.

I'm not saying we shouldn't kill off characters like Pendleghast, or destroy things like the Prometheus, but why the hell did they have to do it the way they did? Hell, it would be like if next week, the Wraith just show up and blow up Atlantis - just like that. Not only is it a bad plot course, but it's unneeded and quite noninteresting.

However, that's just one fan's take on things. Had the Prometheus dished out some pain and kicked some butt before going down, I'd be rooting and tooting for this episode, but the writers just took a dump on this episode. It sucked, to be completely blunt and honest.

I totally agree--in fact while I was watching--my first thought was the writers are dumping down Stargate.

The "Team" came across inept. Really--when did they start having talks with potentially dangers foes on the planet itself? Given the circumstances--why wasnt it earth or a third planet with sgc teams as back-up?

So now Cam is restrained? The Mitchell we have seen would have blown the thing up--in spite of Daniels pleas. Or at the very least--a back-up plan.

I have had a problem with Ori from day one--beyond whatever todays healines are that seem to inspire the writing--there doesnt appear to be any hope--no choice--so yes--why not just destroy Earth now.

I have no problem with hard to beat bad guys or losses but good grief--give them something--this is after all Stargate (or was).

Unlike others--Teal'cs reaction when seeing Sam was soooo out of character it really took me by surprise.
Then there is Teal'c as second seat??? Who are they kidding?

The best acting came from captain going down with his ship. I agree that if Prometheus was to go--then let her go out in a fight.
Science Sam was forced and reckless.

We are really suppose to believe the "team" didnt even consider the "deal" was a lie?

Last but not least--they killed a good many of that ships crew--blew the ship--and the SGC (especially Cam) allowed that weapon to stay intact??
Just wrong and so not Stargate.

The tribute to all these deaths and loss of the first earth ship capable of space flight? "what a bad day"--have a beer.

Once again--great potential gone bad.

FallenAngelII
February 4th, 2006, 03:27 AM
Well, stupidity has always been part of human nature. How could people not see that the Rand leader than gone mad? How can ANYONE follow a mad moron like that? And then when the Kaledonians got a choice, even with the assurance that the Ori would destroy them if they stay, they refused to take it.

And why weren't the Rand smart enough fire at the Kaledonian capitol with their satellite? As long as it's not broken, use it. Needless to say, it's pretty safe to assume both will destroy each other.

And how stupid can someone get? My great-great-great-moron-of-a-grandfather started this war! Now I have to see to it that we win?! "The Kaledonians deserved to die long before the Prior ever came here" (or something like that). Those were the words of the mad Rand protectorate leader and STILL, there were soldiers willing to follow him after he was shot!

Speaking of the team's ineptness: OK, they were smart enough to plan their escape by hyperdrive if they were unable to destroy the satellite. YET, they STAYED! Until the satellite had accumulated enough power to fire AND until they DID fire! They had several seconds, during which they could've escape between when the satellite was done firing up and when it did fire.

Where did all of their intelligence go once they failed to shoot down the satellite? And why did they take such a long time discussing whether Daniel's life was expendible?! Fire now! Run after! "Don't think"!

What kind of beacon was that (the one Daniel was wearing)?! Of course people would take it into custody once they searched Daniel! How un-subtle can you get? Turn it into a necklace or a bracelet of some kind! Something that doesn't obviously scream "Technology!!!!".

MediaSavant
February 4th, 2006, 03:45 AM
Take a beer into your workplace on Monday and see how that works out.
I know how it would work out at my current place of employement and I know how it would have worked out when I was in the USAF.


Well, my place of employment has a bar on premises which opens at 5PM two days a week. It's also not uncommon to have "late in the day" parties with alcohol.

Don't air force bases have Officer's Clubs? The military bases my dad used to take me to (he was Army Reserve) all had them.

It was clear in that scene that Mitchell was off duty and they weren't in an operational part of the base. They weren't "at work" technically. I don't see it as inappropriate.

ShimmeringStar
February 4th, 2006, 03:53 AM
Well, stupidity has always been part of human nature. How could people not see that the Rand leader than gone mad? How can ANYONE follow a mad moron like that? And then when the Kaledonians got a choice, even with the assurance that the Ori would destroy them if they stay, they refused to take it. The Rand president may have been a good actor (a.k.a. Ronald Reagan) and put on one face for his people and another to his staff. Although it could have also been that he may not have shown anyone his Ori extremist side before, since the satellite weapon had only just become operational. In regards to the people - everyone who survived the plague had given their allegiance to the Ori in exchange for their lives. The majority of dissenters were inferred to have died in the Ori plague. (Not to say there weren’t dissenters still left, but they would’ve had a harder time doing anything about their leaders given that both societies were on the verge of collapse, struggling to sustain themselves, let alone fight each other or worry about removing the Ori.) When it had gotten down to daily, minute-to-minute struggles to live, they had to place their faith in someone, no matter how much they wouldn’t have followed him/her if circumstances were different.

RE: Caledonia – I wonder if perhaps the Caledonian leader decided, since death on a world-wide scale seemed inevitable no matter which route they followed, that she wanted their civilization to die by their own hand in a quicker fashion rather than by slow suffering by the Ori?

Just some thoughts. :)

Traveler Enroute1
February 4th, 2006, 04:19 AM
-Shared command nod! Loved that neither Cam nor Sam would sit in the "Big Chair." Nice touch, having Cam debate with himself whether to sit there or not, and deciding not. Hmmm. Why does Sam smile like that when Cam nixes the chair? Hmm-hmm.


=majorsal: i loved that scene! :D

Team leader was an issue in this episode. The captain of the Prometheus having to look to two people for orders clearly illustrated the writers/PTB are going to deal with this onscreen sooner rather than later. Esp. in the way things went down: loss of Prometheus and most of its crew, and what amounts to a failed mission should spark some not so nice investigation when Landry returns. There were at least two control room survivors (Sam's assistant and the pilot) whose testimony of events on the bridge could put the an unflattering light on this area. Just MHO.

Just sayin', it will be interesting to see the fallout from this matter both politically and military-wise. Let's hope it's addressed so that the good story here and the hard work done on it won't just fade. :sam: :tealc: :cameron: :daniel:

ShimmeringStar
February 4th, 2006, 04:28 AM
I am going to watch the repeat and I haven't done that in a while.*grins* I know! :) I watched and stayed awake for both showings! (Maybe it was that I was trying to finish the tax returns while I watched?:rolleyes: )

Just finished reading the thread (watching the 2nd showing of SG1 & half of SGA meant I was too pooped to get on here to read/comment. I’m glad someone had better eagle eyes than me on what Daniel and Cam were drinking; it was hard to tell if it was soda or beer. (And I honestly thought they didn’t want us to know because of 'product placement' issues.) But I still thought it was a nice gesture for him to bring Daniel a soda if it had been that… Though after hearing what Daniel said had happened after they left the planet, it did seem like it was more warranted. (But… did it seem like to anyone else that Daniel was wishing it were something else as he examined the can? Wine or something harder?)

I was kind of sad too when the Prometheus was destroyed and Colonel Pendergast went down with the ship. He was a very honorable character and very believable as the Prommie’s commander. (But once again, as several people have noted - there goes another great supporting character that it would have been great to have seen more of in the show.)

It was a moving moment when Daniel thought everyone was lost. (Though it was hard to tell with the lighting and camera angle exactly what he was doing hunched over in the cell. Looked like he may have been in shock or overwrought and crying – the face looked puffy and red, but when he did a 180 a scene or two later and was being his overly-optimistic self to Jared – it did put a question mark in my mind since it seemed like Jared was spouting lines that given Daniel’s demeanor a few minutes earlier would have been more natural coming from Daniel.) I liked Teal’c and Sam’s exchange too when the met up with each other in Caledonia (T having thought Sam died), as well as Teal’c’s expression when he learned Pendergast went down with the ship. (Yay to Chris for excellent emoting when they’re not giving him much of any (or any good) dialogue!)

Loved seeing Ernie Hudson. I’d managed to see him for a few minutes earlier this week in some “B” movie SciFi ran – the usual Skiffy fare (blech) - and want to say that even in the short time he was on the screen in this ep he was wonderful in comparison.

Anyone else see a bit of resemblance (especially in the mouth area & tone of voice) between John Aylward, the actor playing Rand President Nadal and Tom McBeath (Harry Maybourne)? Maybe Harry’s got some cousins out there in the universe. :rolleyes:

My biggest gripe, and, yes, I do have one – Who the HECK is in charge while Landry is in DC? I was concerned (and irritated) about that in the first showing last night & on watching the 11 p.m. repeat still had that concern. With no character mentioning that Landry had okayed this mission, it really did seem like the team made the decision on their own (without higher up's approval) to commit themselves and other SGC program resources (the Prommie) to something that the base commander may not have done. And not seeming to have had clear authority to do this seemed to make the loss of Pendergast and the Prommie all the more useless and a waste, especially given that the planet ultimately destroyed itself in the end. (Although that did show us the lazy (or sly like a fox) side of the Ori – don’t waste your own resources decimating native populations – give them a tool or two and let them do it to themselves.):rolleyes:

:)

Traveler Enroute1
February 4th, 2006, 04:42 AM
*grins* I know! :) I watched and stayed awake for both showings! (Maybe it was that I was trying to finish the tax returns while I watched?:rolleyes: )

Just finished reading the thread (watching the 2nd showing of SG1 & half of SGA meant I was too pooped to get on here to read/comment. I’m glad someone had better eagle eyes than me on what Daniel and Cam were drinking; it was hard to tell if it was soda or beer. (And I honestly thought they didn’t want us to know because of 'product placement' issues.) But I still thought it was a nice gesture for him to bring Daniel a soda if it had been that… Though after hearing what Daniel said had happened after they left the planet, it did seem like it was more warranted. (But… did it seem like to anyone else that Daniel was wishing it were something else as he examined the can? Wine or something harder?)

I was kind of sad too when the Prometheus was destroyed and Colonel Pendergast went down with the ship. He was a very honorable character and very believable as the Prommie’s commander. (But once again, as several people have noted - there goes another great supporting character that it would have been great to have seen more of in the show.)

It was a moving moment when Daniel thought everyone was lost. (Though it was hard to tell with the lighting and camera angle exactly what he was doing hunched over in the cell. Looked like he may have been in shock or overwrought and crying – the face looked puffy and red, but when he did a 180 a scene or two later and was being his overly-optimistic self to Jared – it did put a question mark in my mind since it seemed like Jared was spouting lines that given Daniel’s demeanor a few minutes earlier would have been more natural coming from Daniel.) I liked Teal’c and Sam’s exchange too when the met up with each other in Caledonia (T having thought Sam died), as well as Teal’c’s expression when he learned Pendergast went down with the ship. (Yay to Chris for excellent emoting when they’re not giving him much of any (or any good) dialogue!)

Loved seeing Ernie Hudson. I’d managed to see him for a few minutes earlier this week in some “B” movie SciFi ran – the usual Skiffy fare (blech) - and want to say that even in the short time he was on the screen in this ep he was wonderful in comparison.

Anyone else see a bit of resemblance (especially in the mouth area & tone of voice) between John Aylward, the actor playing Rand President Nadal and Tom McBeath (Harry Maybourne)? Maybe Harry’s got some cousins out there in the universe. :rolleyes:

My biggest gripe, and, yes, I do have one – Who the HECK is in charge while Landry is in DC? I was concerned (and irritated) about that in the first showing last night & on watching the 11 p.m. repeat still had that concern. With no character mentioning that Landry had okayed this mission, it really did seem like the team made the decision on their own (without higher up's approval) to commit themselves and other SGC program resources (the Prommie) to something that the base commander may not have done. And not seeming to have had clear authority to do this seemed to make the loss of Pendergast and the Prommie all the more useless and a waste, especially given that the planet ultimately destroyed itself in the end. (Although that did show us the lazy (or sly like a fox) side of the Ori – don’t waste your own resources decimating native populations – give them a tool or two and let them do it to themselves.):rolleyes: :)

Nice analysis, ShimmeringStar. On the 2IC when Landry's away, I wondered, too. But on second viewing, Sam says on the bridge that Daniel's been out of touch for 2 days. I'm going to jump to an assumption and say that Lt. Colonels probably can't order the earth's flagship without some higher approval so maybe they got it from Landry offscreen. In which they would have had to make a case for this whole mission anyway, I think. Maybe just being SG1 makes them default stand in command at SGC? Where's military protocol officers when you need them? ;)

Just sayin', and yes, I saw some resemblance to the actor playing Ori-toast to actor McBeathe. :sam: :cameron: :tealc: :daniel:

Zoser
February 4th, 2006, 05:13 AM
My major complaint (there were many) was Season 9 was so boring - well that changed - Ethon finally put a little tension back in the mix. I think it was the best of the season, RE was good, this was better - maybe there is hope yet.

snipped


My biggest gripe, and, yes, I do have one – Who the HECK is in charge while Landry is in DC? I was concerned (and irritated) about that in the first showing last night & on watching the 11 p.m. repeat still had that concern. With no character mentioning that Landry had okayed this mission, it really did seem like the team made the decision on their own (without higher up's approval) to commit themselves and other SGC program resources (the Prommie) to something that the base commander may not have done. And not seeming to have had clear authority to do this seemed to make the loss of Pendergast and the Prommie all the more useless and a waste, especially given that the planet ultimately destroyed itself in the end. (Although that did show us the lazy (or sly like a fox) side of the Ori – don’t waste your own resources decimating native populations – give them a tool or two and let them do it to themselves.):rolleyes:

:)

A few questions:
Who is the 2IC of SCG?
Beer drinking on base? on duty?

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e312/Zzoser/prior-Shallow.gif

Pharaoh Atem
February 4th, 2006, 05:28 AM
this was the first solid episode of season 9

all i gotta say is wow

destroying the Prometheus sucked that was my favorite ship and now it's gone.

Did anyone else almost cry when Colonel Pendergast told everyone to leave. I did I'll admit it the music was perfect at that part the crew members just looking not wanting to leave his side out of respect and loyalty.


:cameron21:


Danie's reaction to Prometheus being destroyed was classic and very moving.

this was the first time the members of SG-1 really thought that there had really lost the team. Daniel thought that there might be all dead mitchell & and teal'c where worried about carter.

also that guy that was helping carter wasn't doing anything wrong he was scared consdering that there never thought that did could happen to the Prometheus.

Does anyone else think that the ori have already gotten to the asguard and something bad might had happen to them. there where there for the gou'lud but since the ori showed up there have been M.I.A. are there scared of the ori might finally destroy them condering there weak.

freyr's mother
February 4th, 2006, 05:34 AM
Damn,..... Prommie got raped!



Wow. As much I thought the Prometheus was a peice of junk I am sadded by it's lost. :(


I feel the same way.


I'm going to miss the Prometheus and Lionel. Very sad. If anyone survived in Rand, the Daedalus should nuke them.

Mmmmmhhhummm..... Damn right!


We could have just beamed a strike team into the Rand bunker to take the satellite control center. Or we could have used a Mark IX to destroy the mothers. Nuke beaming would work as they dont have the jammers the wraith do. I'm gonna miss pendergast too. He was cool and TPTB shouldn't have killed him off. How are we supposed to have a growing armada if they go and do this?


Maybe the asgard didn't give us the full strength asgard shields and instead gave us some they werent using b/c they were outdated. But really, this should be a wake up call for the asgard. They need to start giving us some powerful energy weapons. Better yet, why didn't we just call them up and brief them about the situation. Then they could have come over with their vastly superior technology and destroyed the satellite. Also, i thought prommie had asgard sensors. Wouldn't they have been able to locate daniel without a locator beacon?

Two freaking missiles! Why didn't they just go all out like we saw in beachead? Also, something i noticed in comparing Prommie to Deddy, prommie has faster missiles.

buckner
February 4th, 2006, 06:00 AM
because they underestimated the power of the ori satellite so they didnt use full force :(

FoolishPleasure
February 4th, 2006, 06:12 AM
Dang.. I just realized something, and not sure if anyone else noticed it yet (though I bet someone has.. ) The Ancients (alterans, however you want to call em) are Vorlons, and the Ori are Shadows.... So does this mean that Mitchell (or Daniel.. but he has done it so many times he must have his own ascention elevator) will ascend then deascend make a long winded speech about how we don't need either of them anymore and kick them out of the known universe?? Hmm... ;)
Yep - I picked up on the Vorlon/Shadow thing long ago. We all know what happened with that - neither was what they seemed to be! I'm hoping TPTB can come up with something just as wild.

SnoggingPicard
February 4th, 2006, 06:26 AM
The Prometheus biting the dust was bad enough, but that last scene with Daneil and Mitchell was very, very sad. I thought it was very brave of TPTB to not end this in an "okay" light. The fact that the Prometheus commander sacrificed himself to save the lives of the others and, he believed, the lives of those on the planet, and to have it be for nothing was very powerful. I liked this episode -- kind of slow and talky at parts, but there were some really good bits that gave the episode a very dark tone.

Elfinwood
February 4th, 2006, 06:28 AM
:D
Just sayin', it will be interesting to see the fallout from this matter both politically and military-wise. Let's hope it's addressed so that the good story here and the hard work done on it won't just fade. :sam: :tealc: :cameron: :daniel:

It would be addressed, if this was BSG. Since it is not, I'm afraid that you will just be left to your own thoughts on the issue. Just like we have had to do so much of the time lately with...missing scenes...characters...plots.

I did like the storyline on this one and the special effects were great, but I'm still not getting the "old" Stargate feeling that has been promised and highly promoted. Yeah, they are going through the stargate...to another set! Where are the trees? Maybe Off the Grid will quench my thirst.

And the "team" feeling? Still not there. Maybe it's just that the original three are a bit bored by it all now and the new guy is struggling to fit in. I really hate the exposition scenes now. The ones where they are all lined up like ducks in a row and spout their lines one by one. Except for AT's grimaces, no one moves. Looking back, RDA's inability to be stationary was probably a big plus for those type of scenes...and for his costars and the director. I miss him...and Jack. Jack...who constantly goaded, conjoled, teased, argued with, etc., etc. the rest of the team. Like the superstar in sports who makes the rest of the team better.

esoap524
February 4th, 2006, 06:32 AM
Did anybody else notice the cross between the usual steady cam and the Firefly-esque "shaky cam" in this episode. It felt to me like I was watching a documentary. Nice change of style.

When the F302s flew out of Prom., it looked a lot like the vipers leaving Galactica. It was very cool.

I really loved this episode. Political intrigue, interesting guest characters and good guest cast, much sadness and very cool (and sad) explosions, team stuff and a not happy ending. wonderful stuff.

next week's looks like a totally different change of pace and I love it. Lord, I never thought I'd say it but I LIKE THIS SHOW!

Mio
February 4th, 2006, 06:57 AM
As I sat and watched, one thing continually nagged at me. The F302s are capable of generating hyperspace windows, however unstable they may be. Honestly, I am shocked that they didn't find a way to have a 302 jump through the shield and simply crash into the thing.

Edit: They definetly used an F302 in 'Fallen', so I'm inclined to believe that the generator is present on the F302, and not just the X302.

shockwave
February 4th, 2006, 07:04 AM
good episode, not the best one d'ough

RIP Prometheus and Pendergast
Pendergast went under with his ship

a lot better then Icon

GateLadyM
February 4th, 2006, 07:06 AM
A sad, but excellent episode. What really made it for me was the last scene with Cam and Daniel. To work so hard, lose so much, and still have everything go down the tubes.

Were they having a beer or a soda? I don't care. The scene (no, the whole episode) was well done all the way around.

x_sid
February 4th, 2006, 07:56 AM
It would be addressed, if this was BSG. Since it is not, I'm afraid that you will just be left to your own thoughts on the issue. Just like we have had to do so much of the time lately with...missing scenes...characters...plots.

If nothing else this just goes to show how cut off the SGC is without a working stargate on a planet, and it is more real since this show is being told from an Earth perspective. I know I feel like I've been cut off when I don't have internet access.

Also since for the moment we only have one working ship, the stargate has for the time being become our only means of transportation.

Lida
February 4th, 2006, 07:58 AM
Um, what Foolish Pleasure said.......:)

Dannygirl
February 4th, 2006, 08:20 AM
As I sat and watched, one thing continually nagged at me. The F302s are capable of generating hyperspace windows, however unstable they may be. Honestly, I am shocked that they didn't find a way to have a 302 jump through the shield and simply crash into the thing.

Edit: They definetly used an F302 in 'Fallen', so I'm inclined to believe that the generator is present on the F302, and not just the X302.

I don't think they'd continue to install the unstable hd engine in the 302's given the unstability. It's possible they took them out of future productions, though this would be a very smart thing to consider if it comes to war b/t Milky Way and Ancient tech. Somehow fit sublight capabilities onto some warheads and launch them at anything with a shield.

As for Vorlons/Shadows analogy, one slight difference that makes the Alteran war better if slightly unnerving. They've taken this war to a higher plane of existence, B5's version of "beyond the rim". At least in B5, there was peace in going beyond the rim, while in the SG universe, good and evil still fight and don't care if they destroy the lower planes as a result. A tad more brutal with a hint of dismay for lower being who want to believe in enlightment. I mean, in the SG:A epi "Epiphany", I should've thought that it was nice to see people shed their skin and ascend. All I ended up thinking is that they're going straight into a war.

HirogenGater
February 4th, 2006, 08:26 AM
On base- yes. On duty- no. Mitchell just came back from delivering the news to Pendergast's family, and Daniel was probably just doing some private research.

As for the Prometheus getting wasted- I see what they're doing. It's the classic wrestling build-up: Babyface (Stargate Command) gets beat up by the Heel (Ori). Heel continues to beat up babyface, till almost all hope is lost- then the Babyface makes the big comeback and throws the Ori off the top of the cell into fifteeen burning tables wraped in barbed wire....

Yeah, that kind of got away from me. Point is- the Ori need to been seen as a threat. Hence, a lot of the shows icons (no pun intended) are going to get destroyed before they are finally beaten. Especially if this carries over into a tenth season.

Well said, we needed to be reminded that the Ori are a threat AND don't underestimate a race not as advance as ours.

jckfan55
February 4th, 2006, 08:38 AM
Not a bad episode. The best parts for me were that Daniel was acting like Daniel again and they seemed to be operating as a team. Loved the scene between Teal'c and Sam.

HirogenGater
February 4th, 2006, 08:48 AM
I'm glad you notice that,too! I think you're right, there's something fishy with him.
I completely forgot about that, it was very odd behavior from him.

Dani347
February 4th, 2006, 09:41 AM
The one good of the scene where they find Daniel's communication's device was the split second of Teal'c's expression when Mitchell handed it to him. The rest of the time, it sounded like they were debating whether or not to let a merger fall through, or that they were bringing up the concern that their actions might make them lose out on $25 in the betting pool. Maybe if they thought firing on the sattelite would mean the possibility of Daniel dying as a direct result of their actions, rather than it messing up with them being able to negotiate for them, there might have been more pain in their expressions. I might have seen it in them that they would do it because it was what they should do, but that it was a decision they hated. Seen the feeling, not just "understand" it.

Arative
February 4th, 2006, 09:55 AM
I loved this episode even though Prometheus bit it and I really like that the TPTB are killing off recurring characters. Not because I like to see recurring characters die but because they are pulling away from the red shirts. I hope TPTB will bring in more recurring characters for several episodes each, let us get emotionally involved with the characters so when they do die, it means something. Its better than seeing a new person and knowing they will bite it at the end of the episode. Killing off recurring characters has more of an impact on the audience.

McSwift
February 4th, 2006, 09:57 AM
I am shocked! Literally shocked!

Holey Crap! the Prometheus went down like swiss cheese No disrespect but this episode was by far THE BEST EPISODE EVER!

The Ori Satellite System is unlike the Lantian Satelite .

I just finished watching the episode, so i'm still absorbing the moment. At least the Prometheus went down with honor, and Col. Pendergas went down with the ship.

Zoser
February 4th, 2006, 09:58 AM
Excuse me but the alterans need to get off their lazy butts and bring the fight to the Ori.

Dang.. I just realized something, and not sure if anyone else noticed it yet (though I bet someone has.. ) The Ancients (alterans, however you want to call em) are Vorlons, and the Ori are Shadows.... So does this mean that Mitchell (or Daniel.. but he has done it so many times he must have his own ascention elevator) will ascend then deascend make a long winded speech about how we don't need either of them anymore and kick them out of the known universe?? Hmm... ;)
Yep - where did I put my containment suit?
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e312/Zzoser/prior-Shallow.gif

Zoser
February 4th, 2006, 10:00 AM
Don't shoot me but the Prometheus was one ugly ship - maybe the next generation of ships will be more graceful or sleek.

McSwift
February 4th, 2006, 10:10 AM
Maybe the asgard didn't give us the full strength asgard shields and instead gave us some they werent using b/c they were outdated. But really, this should be a wake up call for the asgard. They need to start giving us some powerful energy weapons. Better yet, why didn't we just call them up and brief them about the situation. Then they could have come over with their vastly superior technology and destroyed the satellite. Also, i thought prommie had asgard sensors. Wouldn't they have been able to locate daniel without a locator beacon?

Two freaking missiles! Why didn't they just go all out like we saw in beachead? Also, something i noticed in comparing Prommie to Deddy, prommie has faster missiles.

If you guys watched 6x18 Disclosure from SG1, you hear at the end that Thor was going to give Prometheus Asgard designed weapons. Where the hell was that.

Also Asgard shields won't do any good, no matter how strong they are. Think about it, the Ancients shields are WAY better than that of the Asgard. Lets make the assumption that the Ori's technology is a bit crappier than the Ancients (Since the Ancients believed in sciece), you can still say that the ori's weapons are way better. Therefore shielding by the Asgards won't do any good.

However, i'm surprised by the satelite's defense capability, the Ancient Sat. System, though is stronger in terms of weapon's strength, the added shield should have been tacked on to even defend the wraith.

golfbooy
February 4th, 2006, 10:43 AM
I daresay that a fine beginning to this inevitably overlong and intensely boring expression of the thoughts running through my head concerning Ethon is to simply state that I found it to be the most satisfying episode of SG-1 to air in a good long while. Why you ask? (Oh, come on, I know you're all curious.)

Well, to begin, they blew up the Prometheus. Unlike many others, I can't say that I'm sorry to see her go. Blame it on the many years I spent watching this show long before she entered the story, but I'd never developed any great attachment to her. It's funny, I suppose, but I've always had a far, far greater affinity for the SGC, for Goa'uld motherships, for cargo ships, for Asgard ships, and for the Stargate itself, than I've ever felt for any of the Earth-built ships in the show. The introduction of such a massive leap in our level of technology, while good for an initial thrill (and for adding many fans, apparently), never sat right with me. I've always felt that it robbed the show of much of it's tension and drama, and that it improperly drew the focus of the show away from planetary exploration towards interstellar conflict. So, yeah, it was a thrill for me to see the Prometheus bite it. SG-1, now without a spaceship all their own, would hopefully be stuck doing things the old fashioned way, much as they did at the end of this episode. But alas, I fear it's not to last. More's the pity.

That said, another reason that the Prometheus' destruction elicited such delight from me is because it was done properly. I've never been the biggest fan of Lionel Pendergast, he always seemed to be just another ship commander to me. But Barclay Hope was outstanding in Ethon, and kudos to the writers for playing this fiddle for all it was worth. His demise with the Prometheus, while inevitable, was simple and straightforward. Manning his ship to the last, saving as many of his crew as possible, Col. Pendergast's quiet final scene is an example of how you illustrate someone's heroism and courage. It was certainly a stark contrast to last week's bizzarre Cambo routine, and an example of the satisfying understatement that has characterized SG-1's heroism over the many years and adventures.

I've always thought that one of SG-1's strengths was that it often revisited worlds and cultures that the team had encountered in previous episodes. While just a small, little thing, for me it's one of the reasons that the Stargate universe seems so rich and expansive. And more often than not, SG-1's return visit to a culture makes for a more satisfying episode than the first time around. Such is the case in Ethon with the Rand Protectorate and Caladonia. Daniel's experiences in Icon and O'neill's, Carter's, and Teal'c's previous interaction with Soren and the upheaval gave the events of Ethon a nice sense of familiarity and allowed the team to feel somewhat relaxed. I still bemoan Damien Kindler's seeming inability to create a different overall "people" than the one we're treated to here; every single Kindler created people is virtually identical (cf. Memento, Cure, Icon). For whatever reason, though, it didn't bother me too much in this one. I liked Ernie Hudson and thought he did well, and I also liked Jared Kane a lot more in this episode than I did in Icon. I suspect that the exclusion of Leda from this episode allowed Kane to be a bit, I don't know, happier? I can't be the only one who thought she was awfully cloying, can I?

Anyway, on to our guys. I have to say that I'm a bit torn on the initial scenes at the SGC. I loved that SG-1 finally acted like a team at the SGC. The briefing scene where Kane explains the situation was well done. It did feel weird not to have someone there who was actually in command of the base. I guess what I'm saying is that it felt weird not to have a General there. That said, I think that the breifing, overall, felt much more comfortable without Landry's presence. See, that make's no sense. I'm torn on it. I wanted a command presence there, but still felt that the whole thing played better without Landry there. So does that mean I dislike Landry? I didn't really think so before, but am now forced to question the character's place. Meh, now I've confused myself. O'neill should be the General. Yeah, that's it. They should just get O'neill back. Shouldn't be too much of a problem, right?

At first glance, I would have predicted that Daniel would be the central figure in Ethon, but the events in the story took precedent. I thought Daniel was good on the planet, if a little more constrained than I would have liked. His reaction to the apparent deaths of his friends was great and very much in character. No gnashing of teeth or beating of breast, just the same reserved, quiet sadness which he displayed after the deaths of both Sha're and Janet Frasier. Also, Michael Shanks' delivery of the "Not till I'm dead.........and sometimes not even then" line was spot on. It was by far Daniel's best line of the season, and it makes me all the sorrier that Michael Shanks will miss some episodes next season, good reasons notwithstanding.

I'm going to lump Teal'c and Mitchell together in this paragraph, seeing as how they were lumped together throughout this episode. Yes, I agree with others that Teal'c should have been piloting his own F302. Come on, he's Teal'c. And, no, he didn't have a whole lot to do or say in Ethon, which is quite the pity. Chris Judge, however, continues to make the most out of what little he's given each week. His reaction to seeing Carter alive and well following the Prometheus' destruction was terrific. Despite the obvious physicality of Mitchell's welcoming hug, there was still more emotion and relief conveyed in Teal'c's actions and mein. And that's not to say that Mitchell's hug was bad, wrong, or out of place. It wasn't. It was in fact a rather nice moment. It just can't hope to compete with the decade of history that the Carter and Teal'c characters share. Those are the kinds of moments that have been conspicuously absent from season 9. Mitchell was back to his original incarnation this week, a pleasant variation from Joke-Cam, Cambo, and the walking angst machine of previous weeks. His inclusion as a member of the team, and not as an outside force, makes all the difference with the character.

I'm not sure what I expected out of Carter in Ethon, but it wasn't a whole lot. Thus, I'm quite pleasantly surprised at how much she was involved in the story. Which I suppose again goes to the team nature of the episode and to how much more successful the show is when it pulls it off. She was great both on the Prometheus and in Caladonia, where her experience under fire and her innovative thinking were given equal opportunity to shine. Throw in some added significance to her time at Area 51 (which makes her earlier absences more palatable) and you've got yourself a winner.

Lastly, I would be remiss to not say something about the pointed inclusion of the command issue in this episode. Certainly the chair scene in Landry's office was a nod to all the fans clamoring for one character or the other to take outright command of SG-1. And, in typical Stargate fashion, nothing is resolved here. Points for consistency, I suppose. Add in the deliberate dialogue and direction of Col. Pendergast on board the Prometheus, and you've got yourself the most obvious illustration of co-command yet. So who's in command? Apparently they both are.

Speaking of direction, Ken Girrotti did a wonderful job on Ethon. I've felt for a while now that Martin Wood, Peter DeLuise and Andy Mikita, have been grossly overworked. While all fine directors, prepping, filming, and editing 10 hours of television a piece is truly a daunting task given the quick filming schedule of Stargate. Eventually, some things will suffer (see The Tower). If TPTB were so inclined as to hire another director to help alleviate the burden, it wouldn't bother me at all. I think a little more prep time and effort went a long way towards making Ethon a delightfully paced, well-inclusive story for all of the characters.

I've read a number of complaints about the beer, and can at least agree that it was an odd decision. But it's not enough to overcome the terrific execution this episode enjoyed. Off the Grid is next week. Not too sure how I feel about it yet. I think it has the potential to be both very good and very bad, though Skiffy's ad doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Still, trying to stay positive, which is a lot easier after Ethon than before it.

whatswiththehairtealc
February 4th, 2006, 10:52 AM
In this episode Sam is like a female MacGyver, and the F302 is like a giant Swiss Army Knife.

beale947
February 4th, 2006, 10:54 AM
Ok i'm sick to death all of these whining people who don't want anything bad happening on the shows, and saying we must win all the time and take no losses. If you want a tv show like that, go and watch thunderbirds or Sonic. The Occasional Losses are vital to the show, so show that it is not always happy and chirpy, and is like real life

The prommie getting destroyed has shown us that, even though we can defeat the priors, we are very badly outnumbered and outgunned, and the fact the asgard shields didn't work, shows us that we can't just call the asgard to help us, incase we are attacked. The Most powerful ally we have, can be easily defeated. It was a Great Episode, the best of the season, and now shows us some of the firepower and technology, no matter what technology it is built by, that the Ori have.

Darkhawk
February 4th, 2006, 11:02 AM
To all ppl who think asgard shields are crappy and weak against ori weapons, why u think this o.O?

We all saw how weak the Prometheus was it couldnt even take out a Hatak ship or a bunch of death gliders and alkesh without getting damaged.

The "asgard" shields on Prometheus were very weak version and powered with weak power source.
Still think the asgard can do seriously more damage to such weapons

Can someone tell me what they were talking at the end about the icon planet?
Didnt understand it x.x,

beale947
February 4th, 2006, 11:12 AM
To all ppl who think asgard shields are crappy and weak against ori weapons, why u think this o.O?

We all saw how weak the Prometheus was it couldnt even take out a Hatak ship or a bunch of death gliders and alkesh without getting damaged.

The "asgard" shields on Prometheus were very weak version and powered with weak power source.
Still think the asgard can do seriously more damage to such weapons

Can someone tell me what they were talking at the end about the icon planet?
Didnt understand it x.x,

In 'Revalations' we've seen that Goa'uld Ha'taks can destroy Asgards ships, and the replicators can go strait though them, do these seem like the type of shields that can hold back weapons built by ascended beings, with infinate knowledge.

Daniel's_twin
February 4th, 2006, 11:12 AM
To all ppl who think asgard shields are crappy and weak against ori weapons, why u think this o.O?

We all saw how weak the Prometheus was it couldnt even take out a Hatak ship or a bunch of death gliders and alkesh without getting damaged.

The "asgard" shields on Prometheus were very weak version and powered with weak power source.
Still think the asgard can do seriously more damage to such weapons

Can someone tell me what they were talking at the end about the icon planet?
Didnt understand it x.x,

I believe they said that the talks had died between the Rannd and Caladonian nations and the Caladonians were attacked, with the Stargate being buried there along with possibly everyone else. :cool:

Dani347
February 4th, 2006, 11:40 AM
Well, to begin, they blew up the Prometheus. Unlike many others, I can't say that I'm sorry to see her go. Blame it on the many years I spent watching this show long before she entered the story, but I'd never developed any great attachment to her.

Heh. My reaction was Prommie go boom. Let's eat!




I liked Ernie Hudson and thought he did well

I'm not sure if they just did a better job with casting this time, or if it's just me not having any specific character or personality to connect him with (Wayne Brady will always be overwhelmingly Wayne Brady, so I couldn't believe him as a Jaffa) that made me believe him as the character he was supposed to be here, and not someone former character he played or just, hey! it's that guy!



I thought Daniel was good on the planet, if a little more constrained than I would have liked.

Grr. Again, i have to complain about a part written for Daniel to go all out in full blown Daniel-ness (not that I personally think he's been acting out of character before, with some minor incidents -well, except for TFH2. I mean, I felt that episode was a major out of character) and then don't do it justice.



His reaction to the apparent deaths of his friends was great and very much in character. No gnashing of teeth or beating of breast, just the same reserved, quiet sadness which he displayed after the deaths of both Sha're and Janet Frasier.

Ah, yes. To me, the best part of the episode. Ijust loved it, and I hadn't even connected it to the way he acted to Sha're and Janet. And, I think the way the scene was shot, keeping him in the background and just cutting to him, head turned away, with Jarrod and Pernaux doing the action of the scene was kind of a visual of Daniel sort of hiding himself away, since he couldn't literally do it.


Also, Michael Shanks' delivery of the "Not till I'm dead.........and sometimes not even then" line was spot on. It was by far Daniel's best line of the season, and it makes me all the sorrier that Michael Shanks will miss some episodes next season, good reasons notwithstanding.

Okay, again, I have to be the odd man out, because I've decided I didn't like this line. Or, rather, I didn't like the placement. Because it was a "cute" moment, a little wink to the audience. Put it in a scene that's not so serious, a bit more light hearted, have someone get somewhat exasperated (also in a scene where exasperation would be fitting) and ask him if he ever gives up, and then have him say the line. That would have been fun. I don't think a cute moment fit here.



Chris Judge, however, continues to make the most out of what little he's given each week. His reaction to seeing Carter alive and well following the Prometheus' destruction was terrific. Despite the obvious physicality of Mitchell's welcoming hug, there was still more emotion and relief conveyed in Teal'c's actions and mein. And that's not to say that Mitchell's hug was bad, wrong, or out of place. It wasn't. It was in fact a rather nice moment. It just can't hope to compete with the decade of history that the Carter and Teal'c characters share.

Yes, I had no problem with Mitchell hugging her. (I also didn't see it mean anything "special") They're teammates and friends. He was afraid she might have been dead. He should have hugged her. But, the real meat of the scene was Teal'c's reaction. It seemed to convey just how he had been feeling when they thought she might have died. And, I like any Sam/Teal'c (not that way!) interactions they manage to give us. They have great chemistry.




I'm not sure what I expected out of Carter in Ethon, but it wasn't a whole lot.

I liked her with the soldier who had been in Avalon (I suck at names. Heck, I didn't even know Pendergast was named that until I read it here). I liked them working together, and her "I got you." Of course, I still don't like everything happening on that stupid boring ship with stupid boring explosions.

Darkhawk
February 4th, 2006, 11:50 AM
In 'Revalations' we've seen that Goa'uld Ha'taks can destroy Asgards ships, and the replicators can go strait though them, do these seem like the type of shields that can hold back weapons built by ascended beings, with infinate knowledge.

Anubis modifed the Hatak shields and weapons.
Thor said they got newer ones and his one was out of date if i remember right.
Replicators can go through shield yes but who says they cant go throught ancient ones?
And like we know the asgard dont want their tech to be used against them thats why we got weaker version of their tech =)

brihana25
February 4th, 2006, 11:58 AM
Ernie Hudson (Pendergast) is my hero.


Ernie Hudson wasn't Pendergast.

Ernie Hudson is the black guy from Ghostbusters, and he played the Rand General, Pernaux.

Barlcay Hope was Pendergast.

GateAngel
February 4th, 2006, 12:02 PM
Kane: Do you ever give up?
Daniel: Not until I'm dead (thinks for a moment).And sometimes not even then.

Best line of the episode!

The death of Lional Pendergast, who stayed behind to hold the Prometheus together and make sure everyone else got out alive, and that final heartrending scene of him on the bridge before the complete distruction of the ship contained EVERYTHING that the writers tried and failed to convey in Heros.

Ethon was a great team episode. The way Daniel, Sam, Teal'c and Mitchell worked together, even when Daniel was on the planet away from them was what I have been waiting to see.

The story was well written and the characters were well thought out, except did anyone else but me think the Rand President was almost an exact copy of Kinsey? I kept expecting him to turn into Ronny Cox.

The final bonding scene between Mitchell and Daniel was awesome.

Snork
February 4th, 2006, 12:30 PM
So what the hell is up with Sci-Fi spoiling the entire episode in their extremely retarded trailers? Has anyone e-mailed them about this? They ruined the twists to Ethon, Ex Deus Machina and Ripple Effect in the trailers (luckily I didn't catch the Ethon one). Seriously. How stupid can you get?

EDIT: And to whomever said that Perneaux was the guy in Ghostbusters, THANK YOU. I was trying to think of where I recognised him from.

golfbooy
February 4th, 2006, 12:34 PM
Heh. My reaction was Prommie go boom. Let's eat!
Seriously, I'd be happy to have SG-1 and the SGC have to go without a ship for a good long while. Sadly, I fear it's not to be.


Okay, again, I have to be the odd man out, because I've decided I didn't like this line. Or, rather, I didn't like the placement. Because it was a "cute" moment, a little wink to the audience. Put it in a scene that's not so serious, a bit more light hearted, have someone get somewhat exasperated (also in a scene where exasperation would be fitting) and ask him if he ever gives up, and then have him say the line. That would have been fun. I don't think a cute moment fit here.
I didn't see it as a "cute" line. Sure, there was a bit of a wink at the audience, but I didn't find the line to be out of place. I saw it more as personally reflective, which I thought fit well with the percieved loss of his friends. And I liked that in spite of that apparent tragedy, Daniel recognized that other lives were still on the line.


Yes, I had no problem with Mitchell hugging her. (I also didn't see it mean anything "special") They're teammates and friends. He was afraid she might have been dead. He should have hugged her. But, the real meat of the scene was Teal'c's reaction. It seemed to convey just how he had been feeling when they thought she might have died. And, I like any Sam/Teal'c (not that way!) interactions they manage to give us. They have great chemistry.
The Sam/Teal'c dynamic is grossly ignored by the writers much of the time. I think Amanda Tapping and Chris Judge are able to inject a lot of their own friendship into the Carter/Teal'c relationship, and that makes the two characters feel as if they really do care about each other. It's one instance where I feel that the actors elevate the scenes, no matter how well written they are. And, like you, I'll take any Sam/Teal'c interaction I can get.

thorshammer
February 4th, 2006, 12:36 PM
This ep was great! It kept me on the edge of my seat. It wasn't predictable in any way for me. I was totaly blown away when the Prometheous got destroyed, good thing they got more. What's this I heard about Earth having more Deadlus class ships? When did this happen? :confused: Great special effects but it didn't made me laugh. The Asgard need to give Earth better shields and weapons.

Darth_Bicyclist
February 4th, 2006, 12:42 PM
Great ep. One question. Why didn't Prometheus use the Asgard beaming thingy to beam a nuke inside the satellite's shield, like how the Daedalus attacked the Wraith ships?

Seshat
February 4th, 2006, 12:49 PM
Ernie Hudson wasn't Pendergast.

Ernie Hudson is the black guy from Ghostbusters, and he played the Rand General, Pernaux.

Barlcay Hope was Pendergast.
Oh, but who can forget Ernie's stellar turn in Congo??? :rolleyes:

golfbooy
February 4th, 2006, 01:10 PM
Oh, but who can forget Ernie's stellar turn in Congo??? :rolleyes:
Oh, sure, mock the killer apes. But, we'll see who's laughing when they take over the world one day. Their leader, undoubtedly named Cornelius, will subjegate all of mankind to servitude and slavery. Consider yourself warned. I smell new season 10 villain. ;) :D

Dani347
February 4th, 2006, 01:13 PM
I'll take killer apes over the Ori.

betjam
February 4th, 2006, 01:39 PM
I liked the episode, but it was hard to watch failure from our heroes. They were overconfident. Didn't sound like they ran the plan before an objective person (Landry). Did they call Landry and ask if they could have the "keys to the car"? Don't they do "acting memorandum" for one person to be designated in charge? The scene on the bridge was sad...sad when nobody wanted to make the big decision. The crew looked scared. I'm glad they discussed that later, to show they knew they had made big mistakes and some people paid the ultimate price.

That's what makes this episode good. The story leaves you thinking afterwards.

Xanderic
February 4th, 2006, 01:49 PM
I daresay that a fine beginning to this inevitably overlong and intensely boring expression of the thoughts running through my head concerning Ethon is to simply state that I found it to be the most satisfying episode of SG-1 to air in a good long while. Why you ask? (Oh, come on, I know you're all curious.)

Well, to begin, they blew up the Prometheus. Unlike many others, I can't say that I'm sorry to see her go. Blame it on the many years I spent watching this show long before she entered the story, but I'd never developed any great attachment to her. It's funny, I suppose, but I've always had a far, far greater affinity for the SGC, for Goa'uld motherships, for cargo ships, for Asgard ships, and for the Stargate itself, than I've ever felt for any of the Earth-built ships in the show. The introduction of such a massive leap in our level of technology, while good for an initial thrill (and for adding many fans, apparently), never sat right with me. I've always felt that it robbed the show of much of it's tension and drama, and that it improperly drew the focus of the show away from planetary exploration towards interstellar conflict. So, yeah, it was a thrill for me to see the Prometheus bite it. SG-1, now without a spaceship all their own, would hopefully be stuck doing things the old fashioned way, much as they did at the end of this episode. But alas, I fear it's not to last. More's the pity.

That said, another reason that the Prometheus' destruction elicited such delight from me is because it was done properly. I've never been the biggest fan of Lionel Pendergast, he always seemed to be just another ship commander to me. But Barclay Hope was outstanding in Ethon, and kudos to the writers for playing this fiddle for all it was worth. His demise with the Prometheus, while inevitable, was simple and straightforward. Manning his ship to the last, saving as many of his crew as possible, Col. Pendergast's quiet final scene is an example of how you illustrate someone's heroism and courage. It was certainly a stark contrast to last week's bizzarre Cambo routine, and an example of the satisfying understatement that has characterized SG-1's heroism over the many years and adventures.

I've always thought that one of SG-1's strengths was that it often revisited worlds and cultures that the team had encountered in previous episodes. While just a small, little thing, for me it's one of the reasons that the Stargate universe seems so rich and expansive. And more often than not, SG-1's return visit to a culture makes for a more satisfying episode than the first time around. Such is the case in Ethon with the Rand Protectorate and Caladonia. Daniel's experiences in Icon and O'neill's, Carter's, and Teal'c's previous interaction with Soren and the upheaval gave the events of Ethon a nice sense of familiarity and allowed the team to feel somewhat relaxed. I still bemoan Damien Kindler's seeming inability to create a different overall "people" than the one we're treated to here; every single Kindler created people is virtually identical (cf. Memento, Cure, Icon). For whatever reason, though, it didn't bother me too much in this one. I liked Ernie Hudson and thought he did well, and I also liked Jared Kane a lot more in this episode than I did in Icon. I suspect that the exclusion of Leda from this episode allowed Kane to be a bit, I don't know, happier? I can't be the only one who thought she was awfully cloying, can I?

Anyway, on to our guys. I have to say that I'm a bit torn on the initial scenes at the SGC. I loved that SG-1 finally acted like a team at the SGC. The briefing scene where Kane explains the situation was well done. It did feel weird not to have someone there who was actually in command of the base. I guess what I'm saying is that it felt weird not to have a General there. That said, I think that the breifing, overall, felt much more comfortable without Landry's presence. See, that make's no sense. I'm torn on it. I wanted a command presence there, but still felt that the whole thing played better without Landry there. So does that mean I dislike Landry? I didn't really think so before, but am now forced to question the character's place. Meh, now I've confused myself. O'neill should be the General. Yeah, that's it. They should just get O'neill back. Shouldn't be too much of a problem, right?

At first glance, I would have predicted that Daniel would be the central figure in Ethon, but the events in the story took precedent. I thought Daniel was good on the planet, if a little more constrained than I would have liked. His reaction to the apparent deaths of his friends was great and very much in character. No gnashing of teeth or beating of breast, just the same reserved, quiet sadness which he displayed after the deaths of both Sha're and Janet Frasier. Also, Michael Shanks' delivery of the "Not till I'm dead.........and sometimes not even then" line was spot on. It was by far Daniel's best line of the season, and it makes me all the sorrier that Michael Shanks will miss some episodes next season, good reasons notwithstanding.

I'm going to lump Teal'c and Mitchell together in this paragraph, seeing as how they were lumped together throughout this episode. Yes, I agree with others that Teal'c should have been piloting his own F302. Come on, he's Teal'c. And, no, he didn't have a whole lot to do or say in Ethon, which is quite the pity. Chris Judge, however, continues to make the most out of what little he's given each week. His reaction to seeing Carter alive and well following the Prometheus' destruction was terrific. Despite the obvious physicality of Mitchell's welcoming hug, there was still more emotion and relief conveyed in Teal'c's actions and mein. And that's not to say that Mitchell's hug was bad, wrong, or out of place. It wasn't. It was in fact a rather nice moment. It just can't hope to compete with the decade of history that the Carter and Teal'c characters share. Those are the kinds of moments that have been conspicuously absent from season 9. Mitchell was back to his original incarnation this week, a pleasant variation from Joke-Cam, Cambo, and the walking angst machine of previous weeks. His inclusion as a member of the team, and not as an outside force, makes all the difference with the character.

I'm not sure what I expected out of Carter in Ethon, but it wasn't a whole lot. Thus, I'm quite pleasantly surprised at how much she was involved in the story. Which I suppose again goes to the team nature of the episode and to how much more successful the show is when it pulls it off. She was great both on the Prometheus and in Caladonia, where her experience under fire and her innovative thinking were given equal opportunity to shine. Throw in some added significance to her time at Area 51 (which makes her earlier absences more palatable) and you've got yourself a winner.

Lastly, I would be remiss to not say something about the pointed inclusion of the command issue in this episode. Certainly the chair scene in Landry's office was a nod to all the fans clamoring for one character or the other to take outright command of SG-1. And, in typical Stargate fashion, nothing is resolved here. Points for consistency, I suppose. Add in the deliberate dialogue and direction of Col. Pendergast on board the Prometheus, and you've got yourself the most obvious illustration of co-command yet. So who's in command? Apparently they both are.

Speaking of direction, Ken Girrotti did a wonderful job on Ethon. I've felt for a while now that Martin Wood, Peter DeLuise and Andy Mikita, have been grossly overworked. While all fine directors, prepping, filming, and editing 10 hours of television a piece is truly a daunting task given the quick filming schedule of Stargate. Eventually, some things will suffer (see The Tower). If TPTB were so inclined as to hire another director to help alleviate the burden, it wouldn't bother me at all. I think a little more prep time and effort went a long way towards making Ethon a delightfully paced, well-inclusive story for all of the characters.

I've read a number of complaints about the beer, and can at least agree that it was an odd decision. But it's not enough to overcome the terrific execution this episode enjoyed. Off the Grid is next week. Not too sure how I feel about it yet. I think it has the potential to be both very good and very bad, though Skiffy's ad doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Still, trying to stay positive, which is a lot easier after Ethon than before it.
I normally hate writing and reading long posts but I agree with you there. Long, detailed, and supported. Basically everything you wrote I agree with. :cool: but I'm just too lazy to write it all out :p


Ok i'm sick to death all of these whining people who don't want anything bad happening on the shows, and saying we must win all the time and take no losses. If you want a tv show like that, go and watch thunderbirds or Sonic. The Occasional Losses are vital to the show, so show that it is not always happy and chirpy, and is like real life

The prommie getting destroyed has shown us that, even though we can defeat the priors, we are very badly outnumbered and outgunned, and the fact the asgard shields didn't work, shows us that we can't just call the asgard to help us, incase we are attacked. The Most powerful ally we have, can be easily defeated. It was a Great Episode, the best of the season, and now shows us some of the firepower and technology, no matter what technology it is built by, that the Ori have.
Thank you. I didn't want to rant at the whiners and get bad rep. As much as we hate to see ourselves lose, it's life. We win some and we lose some. Sg-1 was too overconfident with the prometheus. This episode seems to Parallel the prometheus in my opinion. They underestimated the power of the Ori and didn't think through the whole process before going to the planet with Prommie.

BlackBaron
February 4th, 2006, 01:56 PM
So sad to know that the Prometheus is no more :(

Very, very sad :(

MasySyma
February 4th, 2006, 02:11 PM
My review is short because my life is hectic this week.

Overall, a good episode. Not the season's best but not bad. The eplosions were good, the plot interesting, and the end wonderful. I wasn't a big fan of Icon, so this episode can't be a 10/10 for me. But 8.5/10 isn't too bad.

GateByte
February 4th, 2006, 02:14 PM
Awesome episode! I think it was one of the best there has been in quite a while. I so didn't see the Prometheus being blown up.

I'd have to agree with those that say Scifi has crappy trailers, they ruin some of the best episodes with them. Luckily I didn't happen to catch the trailer for this one, I would not have been very happy with scifi.

Very sad the Prometheus is gone. I wonder if this will mean the Daedalus will be spending more time in the Milky Way, than travelling to and from Atlantis.

entil2001
February 4th, 2006, 02:38 PM
Considering the fact that I barely remember the previous episode highlighting this particular world, I wasn’t exactly looking forward to a return visit. And perhaps that’s what the writing staff was hoping for, because I certainly wasn’t expecting this episode to have vast consequences for the defense of Earth. Yet that’s exactly what happened: the SGC got embroiled in a foreign conflict, all based on concerns for planetary security, and ultimately lost ground in the process.

Somewhere in this story, I’m sure, is a commentary on the US national security policies of the recent past. As much as the planet in question was being invaded by the Ori, so are many other planets, and they aren’t engaged in a conflict of mutually assured destruction. Almost from the beginning of the episode, the situation looked hopeless, and as the consequences for interference began to escalate out of control, I couldn’t help but wonder what was gained.

So now, with no change whatsoever in terms of the Ori incursion on the planet, Earth has lost one of its most important assets, along with dozens of highly trained and experienced personnel. Never mind the resources and weapons still on the Prometheus at the time of its destruction. In essence, without firing a shot at Earth on their own, the Ori have managed to cripple Earth’s ability to intercede. If the Tau’ri weren’t in desperate need of the Jaffa and other allies before, they certainly are now! (Unless, of course, another Daedalus is almost completed...)

The progressive destruction of the Prometheus was quite dramatic, though I could have done without the whole “did Sam survive” melodrama. Of course she was going to survive; why even pretend that it might end otherwise? I also liked the fact that Mitchell’s flight experience came back into play, since that’s a fairly substantial aspect of his character.

Considering that this episode was largely a stand-alone installment, it’s good to see this situation exactly a consequence in the larger scheme of things. I don’t mind that kind of basic arc-building. Even “Babylon 5” had episodes that were largely stand-alone with elements that played into the arc structure later down the line. I foresee that this situation will make the SG teams far more important, and that it will push the SGC towards a hunt to find a new weapon against the Ori, since current options are quickly disappearing.

However, all that said, I would rather have episodes that set the team directly against the Ori. Episodes like this are nice when they have surprising impact on the overall story, but if it hadn’t been for the destruction of the Prometheus, this episode would have been a bore. Considering how the quality of the second half of the season has been less impressive than the first half, more substantial episodes would be welcome.

AlphaBlu
February 4th, 2006, 02:53 PM
Prometheus! NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was a harrowing ep. I'm so very very sad to see the Prometheus go. Great ep though. I'll have to digest that... I cannot believe they blew it up. Poor Pendergast.

BYE

Sue_Jackson
February 4th, 2006, 03:11 PM
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Wow.....what a dark and angsty ep that was. It's been a while since we've seen such a serious ep. I truly had my eyes glued to the screen. I didn't want to take my eyes away for a second. I love Jared Kane. I think he was a wonderful character.

I was shocked and saddened when President Nadal fired the weapon upon the already neutralized Prometheus with Col. Pendergast on board. I even cried, and yelled, "No!" I didn't see that coming at all. Even though they didn't show it, I knew that Sam had to have beamed off already and made it safely on the planet. (Well.....because she's in the next ep. ;) ) How sad to lose Pendergast, though. I really liked his character. Though, I did like that last scene with Cameron and Daniel, and how Cameron wrote a letter to Pendergast's family and that he died a hero.

Daniel has such a caring, thoughtful, and loving soul. Think this is what Sam meant when she said, "One of the most caring, passionate...you're the type of person who would give his own life for someone he doesn't even know. If you had one fault, it was that you wanted to save people so badly, you wanted to help people so much, that it tore you apart when you couldn't make a difference." (Fallen, S7)

This is why I love Daniel. Daniel wanted so hard to make this right. He felt partly responsible for what has happened between the Rand and Caledonia. He wanted fix it. No matter what it took. Even after Prometheus was blown up with Pendergast still inside, even when it seemed we couldn't trust Nadal, even when Cameron had that window of opportunity to blow up the satellite weapon when they had the chance, Daniel still wanted to negotiate a peace and tried to make a deal with Nadal, giving him the benefit of the doubt. Then, Nadal, the son of a *****, broke the deal. (For some reason, though, I saw that coming) But, it looks like we won't be going back to that planet if the Gate is buried. Plus, from what Daniel said, it sounds like Rand and Caledonia both were destroyed. How sad.

Best quote:

Jared: "Don't you ever quit?"

Daniel: "No.....not till I'm dead....and sometimes not even then."

LOL! That made me giggle. :D


This ep......wow!

acdj31
February 4th, 2006, 03:13 PM
After watching the ep. I hated it. Blowing up the Prometheus. Killing off Pendergast.:mad: But I watched it a second time and I think it is a okay ep.:o

(spoilers for Atlantis, SG-1)

But I still mad at them for killing off Pendergest. First tptb killed off Jacob then Grodin in Atlantis now Pendergest. All I got to say is tptb better not kill off Zelenka or Dr. Lee. :(

majorsal
February 4th, 2006, 03:56 PM
:D

Team leader was an issue in this episode. The captain of the Prometheus having to look to two people for orders clearly illustrated the writers/PTB are going to deal with this onscreen sooner rather than later. Esp. in the way things went down: loss of Prometheus and most of its crew, and what amounts to a failed mission should spark some not so nice investigation when Landry returns. There were at least two control room survivors (Sam's assistant and the pilot) whose testimony of events on the bridge could put the an unflattering light on this area. Just MHO.

Just sayin', it will be interesting to see the fallout from this matter both politically and military-wise. Let's hope it's addressed so that the good story here and the hard work done on it won't just fade. :sam: :tealc: :cameron: :daniel:

you know, i'd love to think the writers would really think like that - you know, dealing with reality and all - but how much you want to bet it'll not even be a topic? i mean, just 'who' was in charge while landry was away? sam? if it's mitchell, i'll be screaming even more. walter understands the running of the base better than newbie guy.

i find it hard to believe that even sam would be left in charge. either she is in charge and *stays* on base, or she's not and goes with sg1. so who allowed sg1 to take prommie? and who's going to 'pay', so to speak, for losing it? this wasn't a little 'oh, i left behind that gun!' scenario.

but it'll be ignored, like all the other big stuff. too bad. *snort*


excuse the mood, i'm pmsing... like wanting to cry and kill at the same moment... the ladies will understand... no more caffeine for me




sally :)

Seshat
February 4th, 2006, 03:59 PM
After watching the ep. I hated it. Blowing up the Prometheus. Killing off Pendergast.:mad: But I watched it a second time and I think it is a okay ep.:o

(spoilers for Atlantis, SG-1)

But I still mad at them for killing off Pendergest. First tptb killed off Jacob then Grodin in Atlantis now Pendergest. All I got to say is tptb better not kill off Zelenka or Dr. Lee. :(
If they ever kill off Dr. Lee I am gonna storm Bridge Studios and start smiting!! :S

I know they like to kill off an occasional well-liked character for dramatic effect, but at this rate there will be no one left at the end of the season but the core four. And maybe Walter. ;)

NakedJehutyV2
February 4th, 2006, 04:12 PM
should kill off mckay instead. pendergast was cool.

asgard ----designed---- not made weapons.

just like the satelite was ori designed

binkpmmc
February 4th, 2006, 04:23 PM
I daresay that a fine beginning to this inevitably overlong and intensely boring expression of the thoughts running through my head concerning Ethon is to simply state that I found it to be the most satisfying episode of SG-1 to air in a good long while. Why you ask? (Oh, come on, I know you're all curious.)

Well, to begin, they blew up the Prometheus. Unlike many others, I can't say that I'm sorry to see her go. Blame it on the many years I spent watching this show long before she entered the story, but I'd never developed any great attachment to her. It's funny, I suppose, but I've always had a far, far greater affinity for the SGC, for Goa'uld motherships, for cargo ships, for Asgard ships, and for the Stargate itself, than I've ever felt for any of the Earth-built ships in the show. The introduction of such a massive leap in our level of technology, while good for an initial thrill (and for adding many fans, apparently), never sat right with me. I've always felt that it robbed the show of much of it's tension and drama, and that it improperly drew the focus of the show away from planetary exploration towards interstellar conflict. So, yeah, it was a thrill for me to see the Prometheus bite it. SG-1, now without a spaceship all their own, would hopefully be stuck doing things the old fashioned way, much as they did at the end of this episode. But alas, I fear it's not to last. More's the pity.

That said, another reason that the Prometheus' destruction elicited such delight from me is because it was done properly. I've never been the biggest fan of Lionel Pendergast, he always seemed to be just another ship commander to me. But Barclay Hope was outstanding in Ethon, and kudos to the writers for playing this fiddle for all it was worth. His demise with the Prometheus, while inevitable, was simple and straightforward. Manning his ship to the last, saving as many of his crew as possible, Col. Pendergast's quiet final scene is an example of how you illustrate someone's heroism and courage. It was certainly a stark contrast to last week's bizzarre Cambo routine, and an example of the satisfying understatement that has characterized SG-1's heroism over the many years and adventures.

I've always thought that one of SG-1's strengths was that it often revisited worlds and cultures that the team had encountered in previous episodes. While just a small, little thing, for me it's one of the reasons that the Stargate universe seems so rich and expansive. And more often than not, SG-1's return visit to a culture makes for a more satisfying episode than the first time around. Such is the case in Ethon with the Rand Protectorate and Caladonia. Daniel's experiences in Icon and O'neill's, Carter's, and Teal'c's previous interaction with Soren and the upheaval gave the events of Ethon a nice sense of familiarity and allowed the team to feel somewhat relaxed. I still bemoan Damien Kindler's seeming inability to create a different overall "people" than the one we're treated to here; every single Kindler created people is virtually identical (cf. Memento, Cure, Icon). For whatever reason, though, it didn't bother me too much in this one. I liked Ernie Hudson and thought he did well, and I also liked Jared Kane a lot more in this episode than I did in Icon. I suspect that the exclusion of Leda from this episode allowed Kane to be a bit, I don't know, happier? I can't be the only one who thought she was awfully cloying, can I?

Anyway, on to our guys. I have to say that I'm a bit torn on the initial scenes at the SGC. I loved that SG-1 finally acted like a team at the SGC. The briefing scene where Kane explains the situation was well done. It did feel weird not to have someone there who was actually in command of the base. I guess what I'm saying is that it felt weird not to have a General there. That said, I think that the breifing, overall, felt much more comfortable without Landry's presence. See, that make's no sense. I'm torn on it. I wanted a command presence there, but still felt that the whole thing played better without Landry there. So does that mean I dislike Landry? I didn't really think so before, but am now forced to question the character's place. Meh, now I've confused myself. O'neill should be the General. Yeah, that's it. They should just get O'neill back. Shouldn't be too much of a problem, right?

At first glance, I would have predicted that Daniel would be the central figure in Ethon, but the events in the story took precedent. I thought Daniel was good on the planet, if a little more constrained than I would have liked. His reaction to the apparent deaths of his friends was great and very much in character. No gnashing of teeth or beating of breast, just the same reserved, quiet sadness which he displayed after the deaths of both Sha're and Janet Frasier. Also, Michael Shanks' delivery of the "Not till I'm dead.........and sometimes not even then" line was spot on. It was by far Daniel's best line of the season, and it makes me all the sorrier that Michael Shanks will miss some episodes next season, good reasons notwithstanding.

I'm going to lump Teal'c and Mitchell together in this paragraph, seeing as how they were lumped together throughout this episode. Yes, I agree with others that Teal'c should have been piloting his own F302. Come on, he's Teal'c. And, no, he didn't have a whole lot to do or say in Ethon, which is quite the pity. Chris Judge, however, continues to make the most out of what little he's given each week. His reaction to seeing Carter alive and well following the Prometheus' destruction was terrific. Despite the obvious physicality of Mitchell's welcoming hug, there was still more emotion and relief conveyed in Teal'c's actions and mein. And that's not to say that Mitchell's hug was bad, wrong, or out of place. It wasn't. It was in fact a rather nice moment. It just can't hope to compete with the decade of history that the Carter and Teal'c characters share. Those are the kinds of moments that have been conspicuously absent from season 9. Mitchell was back to his original incarnation this week, a pleasant variation from Joke-Cam, Cambo, and the walking angst machine of previous weeks. His inclusion as a member of the team, and not as an outside force, makes all the difference with the character.

I'm not sure what I expected out of Carter in Ethon, but it wasn't a whole lot. Thus, I'm quite pleasantly surprised at how much she was involved in the story. Which I suppose again goes to the team nature of the episode and to how much more successful the show is when it pulls it off. She was great both on the Prometheus and in Caladonia, where her experience under fire and her innovative thinking were given equal opportunity to shine. Throw in some added significance to her time at Area 51 (which makes her earlier absences more palatable) and you've got yourself a winner.

Lastly, I would be remiss to not say something about the pointed inclusion of the command issue in this episode. Certainly the chair scene in Landry's office was a nod to all the fans clamoring for one character or the other to take outright command of SG-1. And, in typical Stargate fashion, nothing is resolved here. Points for consistency, I suppose. Add in the deliberate dialogue and direction of Col. Pendergast on board the Prometheus, and you've got yourself the most obvious illustration of co-command yet. So who's in command? Apparently they both are.

Speaking of direction, Ken Girrotti did a wonderful job on Ethon. I've felt for a while now that Martin Wood, Peter DeLuise and Andy Mikita, have been grossly overworked. While all fine directors, prepping, filming, and editing 10 hours of television a piece is truly a daunting task given the quick filming schedule of Stargate. Eventually, some things will suffer (see The Tower). If TPTB were so inclined as to hire another director to help alleviate the burden, it wouldn't bother me at all. I think a little more prep time and effort went a long way towards making Ethon a delightfully paced, well-inclusive story for all of the characters.

I've read a number of complaints about the beer, and can at least agree that it was an odd decision. But it's not enough to overcome the terrific execution this episode enjoyed. Off the Grid is next week. Not too sure how I feel about it yet. I think it has the potential to be both very good and very bad, though Skiffy's ad doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Still, trying to stay positive, which is a lot easier after Ethon than before it.

Yup. Great post.

LMichelle
February 4th, 2006, 04:28 PM
I just can't get over the fact that the Prometheus is gone. :(

I liked the ep a lot. Much better than last week.

Poor Daniel sitting in the cell wondering if his friends were dead or alive. Best line: "Not until I'm dead and sometimes not even then." That pretty much sums it up. :)

nccjones
February 4th, 2006, 05:00 PM
The scene where Sam came back, I didn't get the impression that Mitchell's reaction was more important or heartfelt than Teal'c's. Teal'c's expression was definitely full of emotion, and it seemed to me that he wanted to be able to look at her. I felt the holding her the arms and staring into her eyes when he said that they feared the worst had a big emotional impact..

I agree! Teal'c's expression said it more than a hug ever would have. I saw 9years of freindship in that small scene. The Mitchell hug was lost on me. He was happy to see her alive, that's understandable, but I don't feel like he's part of the team so there was no emotion invested in it.


And, one nice thing in the cell after the Prometheus blew up and Jared was saying all of Daniel's lines (grr) was they cut to Daniel and when the commander dude started talking about what the pror did, Daniel's head turned slightly towards them. Like the whole time he hadn't heard a word, because he was in shock, but that managed to penetrate his fog. I like the idea that he was so lost that he couldn't participate. And, yes, at the same time I hate that Jared was doing all the talking..

It didn't bother me that Jared had all the lines in that scene, because just like Teal'c's scene with Sam, I thought Daniel in the background with his head down spoke volumes! I was barely paying attention to Jared and was just watching Daniel. Again, 9 years of friendship with these people and he can only assume they were on the ship and possibly did not beam down.



And, no face to face reunion with Daniel. What is it with Damian Kindler (hope I'm getting the right person to be miffed at) and all Daniel reunions with SG1 after being in trouble happening long distance? And, I still didn't feel the emotion when they found out for sure he was okay. I heard the words, but a split second smile when hearing his voice? It sucks that the reaction shot had to go to Teal'c and Mitchell when they had those helmets on.

Again, I do agree to a point. But the exchange btwn Sam and Daniel that they were glad to hear each other's voices again was great. I really felt the friendship and caring.

freyr's mother
February 4th, 2006, 05:06 PM
Anyone have screencaps of Prommie getting raped and the F-302's leaving prommie and attacking the ori satellite?

nccjones
February 4th, 2006, 05:06 PM
Is it against the rules to have beer on a military facility period, or just when you're on duty? I wouldn't know myself. But, I'll confess I liked the scene so much -Mitchell seeking Daniel out, giving him credit, probably in an attempt to make him feel better over everything- that I really wouldn't have cared if it had been against the rules. There was so little for me to like. But, still, I thought it was clear Mitchell wasn't on duty, and Daniel could very well have been there after hours, which would mean he wasn't officially on duty either. Would that still have been a breach of military rules?

It is against the rules to have beer at a place of duty. All bases usually have an officer's and enlisted club where they can drink. Even though Cheyenne Mountain isn't really a base, it is close to a base. I'm sure the guys who really work in Cheyenne Mountain, if any are watching, saw that scene with wide eyes. I'm in the military and anyone on or off duty showed up with beer at their work place would be court martialed so fast it wouldn't be funny.

Many people are swearing it wasn't beer though, that they thought it was some brand of root beer. But then the scene wouldn't make sense to me. How many times has someone brought another a soda? It made sense that it was beer to me...that's what the scene was screaming to me. I was really hoping Daniel wouldn't drink it since he hesitated at first.

Edited to add...even though it's against regulations...not to say it doesn't happen. (Just not too thrilled about the "supposed" 21C of the base is doing this when he would have to punish junior personnel for the same thing).

MoebiusStrip
February 4th, 2006, 05:23 PM
They blew up my favorite ship those ****ers. I was very sad that we lost the Prometheus...but life goes on...and we'll get the Odyssey.

My only thought about all that was...is SG-1 going to get in serious trouble for it...kinda like the incident in 'Heroes' where there was some conflict with it?

Daniel was pretty much as his old self...trying to make peace out of something that seems impossible to do.

As for the beer deal I think of it this way...they lost the Prometheus, 40 people died on that ship and the peace talks failed...I am pretty sure after a day like that...a beer won't kill anyone.

Great episode though, this really brought back the old days of SG-1...I give it 4.5/5

PG15
February 4th, 2006, 05:31 PM
Honestly, I hated this episode. Killing off the Prometheus was unwarranted and unneeded.

No. IMHO it was needed to show how deadly the Ori really are. The Goa'uld never managed that.


The worst part about it is that the writers seem to have killed off Prometheus simply because of a quick one-liner that Teal'C gave back in Ripple Effect. I'm sorry, but just because the Prometheus was lost in an alternative dimension DOES NOT mean it has to happen here.

Uh...no. That was foreshadowing. By the time they finished Ripple Effect's script, they already knew that the Promie is going to get it 2 episodes later.


I was quite disgusted to see Prometheus die an undeserving and pointless death, along with Pendergast. The fact that so many of the crew was lost and that the Rand and Caldonian people just ended up killing themselves anyways, this episode quite honestly sucked. It seems like the writers hit a bit of an emo bump and decided just said "screw it" and did something grand and dramatic - only it wasn't and it wasn't needed.

It's war. What, you think it's all going to be meaningful and happy sunshine?


I'm not saying we shouldn't kill off characters like Pendergast, or destroy things like the Prometheus, but why the hell did they have to do it the way they did?

Because sh*t happens. That's war.



So then you'd be okay if the writers decided to kill all of SG-1? Have Dr. Weir thrown to a bunch of hungry Wraiths? Atlantis fall into the sea?

No, no, and no.

Why?

Because this is Stargate SG1, they are the main characters. Weir, is ALSO a main character, and so is Atlantis since the show is called "Stargate Atlantis"

When there is a Stargate Prometheus or Stargate Pendergast, then I'll understand.


Also, a person can fail and not die. McKay failed compaired to Carter - that doesn't mean we should throw him into a pit of lava or blow him up.

But people do die because they failed.


The writers COULD have had Pendergast fail to destroy the satellite, yet still live at the end of the day.

Why? Can you honesty not handle a character death on a TV show that you don't want this kind of emotional impact?

We need sacrifices. Otherwise, this would all seem trivial (besides the fact that it's a TV show).

As for me:

Wow wow wow. That was freaking awesome!

Ok, slight Star Treky during the fire fight, but that's fine since I'm a Trek fan.

I loved Teal'c's little bow when the Calandonians said that they would die before submitting.

I loved that tiny, tiny little swallow Carter did when they said that they haven't heard from Danny.

I loved how Cam so casually told everyone to get between the weapon and the Prommie so they can take a hit for it.

I loved how Danny got control of the situation at the end.

I loved how everything just went downhill after we left, and how the Stargate was buried in rubble. Very symbolic.

And finally...

RIP Prometheus (I went "Oh sh*t!" When that first shot went through the ship!) and Colonel Pendergast. You will be missed. :(

(score: 5/5)

Oh, and did anyone else see how much the Rand president looked like Maybourne? It was unnerving. He even sounded like him!

MoebiusStrip
February 4th, 2006, 05:40 PM
Lots and Lots of Stuff

Well said. :)

NakedJehutyV2
February 4th, 2006, 06:07 PM
It is against the rules to have beer at a place of duty. All bases usually have an officer's and enlisted club where they can drink. Even though Cheyenne Mountain isn't really a base, it is close to a base. I'm sure the guys who really work in Cheyenne Mountain, if any are watching, saw that scene with wide eyes. I'm in the military and anyone on or off duty showed up with beer at their work place would be court martialed so fast it wouldn't be funny.

Many people are swearing it wasn't beer though, that they thought it was some brand of root beer. But then the scene wouldn't make sense to me. How many times has someone brought another a soda? It made sense that it was beer to me...that's what the scene was screaming to me. I was really hoping Daniel wouldn't drink it since he hesitated at first.

Edited to add...even though it's against regulations...not to say it doesn't happen. (Just not too thrilled about the "supposed" 21C of the base is doing this when he would have to punish junior personnel for the same thing).



that's the US military for ya. anyway sci fi

NakedJehutyV2
February 4th, 2006, 06:10 PM
No. IMHO it was needed to show how deadly the Ori really are. The Goa'uld never managed that.



Uh...no. That was foreshadowing. By the time they finished Ripple Effect's script, they already knew that the Promie is going to get it 2 episodes later.



It's war. What, you think it's all going to be meaningful and happy sunshine?



Because sh*t happens. That's war.




No, no, and no.

Why?

Because this is Stargate SG1, they are the main characters. Weir, is ALSO a main character, and so is Atlantis since the show is called "Stargate Atlantis"

When there is a Stargate Prometheus or Stargate Pendergast, then I'll understand.



But people do die because they failed.



Why? Can you honesty not handle a character death on a TV show that you don't want this kind of emotional impact?

We need sacrifices. Otherwise, this would all seem trivial (besides the fact that it's a TV show).

As for me:

Wow wow wow. That was freaking awesome!

Ok, slight Star Treky during the fire fight, but that's fine since I'm a Trek fan.

I loved Teal'c's little bow when the Calandonians said that they would die before submitting.

I loved that tiny, tiny little swallow Carter did when they said that they haven't heard from Danny.

I loved how Cam so casually told everyone to get between the weapon and the Prommie so they can take a hit for it.

I loved how Danny got control of the situation at the end.

I loved how everything just went downhill after we left, and how the Stargate was buried in rubble. Very symbolic.

And finally...

RIP Prometheus (I went "Oh sh*t!" When that first shot went through the ship!) and Colonel Pendergast. You will be missed. :(

(score: 5/5)

Oh, and did anyone else see how much the Rand president looked like Maybourne? It was unnerving. He even sounded like him!


they were tricky. the preview made it seem like the prommie rammed the satelite and both were destroyed. when i saw the prommie die in after a another shot i was all WTF!!!!!!!

Kanten
February 4th, 2006, 06:12 PM
My only thought about all that was...is SG-1 going to get in serious trouble for it...kinda like the incident in 'Heroes' where there was some conflict with it?


I'm hoping it may at least be mentioned at some point in The Scourge. I don't think our foreign allies are going to be too thrilled that the SGC got Earth's flagship and primary defense platform destroyed on an off-world mission that didn't concern Earth directly. I would think Woolsey would have a hissy fit about that one.

ToasterOnFire
February 4th, 2006, 06:12 PM
PS: OMG DANIEL WATCH OUT KANE IS A CYLON!
Ha! The first thing I thought when I saw him was "Oh crap, the cyclons have invaded the SGC!" :D


Yep - I picked up on the Vorlon/Shadow thing long ago. We all know what happened with that - neither was what they seemed to be! I'm hoping TPTB can come up with something just as wild.
I thought that one scene where Mitch and Sam were going over the satellite plans on the prominently displayed "B5" level was a Babylon 5 shout out. Be interesting to see if the commentaries say as much.


The Prometheus actually may end up destroying the satellite after all. It's destruction created a huge amount of orbiting debris which realistically would eventually collide and either destroy the satellite or push it out of orbit. Heck, I thought the Prommie should have rammed the damn thing to burn up in the atmosphere once they realized they were severely outgunned.

nccjones
February 4th, 2006, 06:12 PM
that's the US military for ya. anyway sci fi

Yep, and that's why I'm proud to serve in the US Military :) There are reasons for this rule. But I do agree this is sci-fi. If that's so, then I wouldn't expect to hear about how many times Carter broke the rules and Mitchell running off on his own.

NakedJehutyV2
February 4th, 2006, 06:41 PM
imo after daniel told camshaft bout the talks breaking down they should launch another attack on the satelite and destroy it before it arms shield

NakedJehutyV2
February 4th, 2006, 06:54 PM
Yep, and that's why I'm proud to serve in the US Military :) There are reasons for this rule. But I do agree this is sci-fi. If that's so, then I wouldn't expect to hear about how many times Carter broke the rules and Mitchell running off on his own.

good for you seriously.

now no offense or anything but how much are ya'll paid?

AnotherEvilAlien
February 4th, 2006, 06:55 PM
No. IMHO it was needed to show how deadly the Ori really are. The Goa'uld never managed that.

Why do you assume I need to see Prometheus being blow to kingdom come (without doing a damn thing in return) to know the Ori are powerful. For christ's sake, the Ori weren't even in the episode, just their influence.

Having to see the Ori destroy the Prometheus to show the Ori are evil is like having to carry, by hand, every single dollar that Bill Gates has cross-country to prove he's rich.

They almost killed all of earth with their virus, I *KNOW* they are dangerous.

Not only is it stupid, it's unneeded.



Uh...no. That was foreshadowing.


Ah. So Janet will be returning from the grave then, huh? :rolleyes:

IT WAS AN ALTERNATIVE UNIVERSE! Just because it was said or seen DOES NOT AT ALL mean it will happen in the regular SG-1 universe.



By the time they finished Ripple Effect's script, they already knew that the Promie is going to get it 2 episodes later.

Yeah, showing that the writers just wanted to justify the act.

You should never have to justify what's in the script. If you do, something's wrong with it.



It's war. What, you think it's all going to be meaningful and happy sunshine?


Oh, really?

Then why didn't they FOLLOW THEIR ****ING PLAN and run in case they couldn't do anything?



Because sh*t happens. That's war.


It's a TV show. Not a war. We've been in several wars since WWII, but the United States hasn't lost a single carrier since WWII. In the meantime, it took Earth less than 4 years to lose their first BC.



Because this is Stargate SG1, they are the main characters. Weir, is ALSO a main character, and so is Atlantis since the show is called "Stargate Atlantis"

When there is a Stargate Prometheus or Stargate Pendergast, then I'll understand.



Why? Can you honesty not handle a character death on a TV show that you don't want this kind of emotional impact?

We need sacrifices.

"Hi, my name is PG15, and I'm a hypocrite."

So you don't give a damn if Pendergast or Prometheus bites the dust, but you whine when I suggest that we should just start killing off the entire cast? That's asinine hypocritic banter.

You don't care, as long as you get to choose and pick who lives and dies. Well, well, well. That's all fine and dandy, but it sort of ruins whatever creditibility you had.

You must have crapped bricks when RDA left, or when Sheppard was set up to kill himself at the end of Season 1. "We need sarcrifices, but don't kill off any major characters!" (Dear god, did you go stark raving mad when Daniel died... twice?) :rolleyes:


In 'Revalations' we've seen that Goa'uld Ha'taks can destroy Asgards ships

1.) Osiris' ship was using Ancient shields that Anubis had knowledge of.
2.) Even an Asgard shield will fail if hit with enough big weapons.

nyxlily
February 4th, 2006, 07:01 PM
It didn't bother me that Jared had all the lines in that scene, because just like Teal'c's scene with Sam, I thought Daniel in the background with his head down spoke volumes! I was barely paying attention to Jared and was just watching Daniel. Again, 9 years of friendship with these people and he can only assume they were on the ship and possibly did not beam down.


I agree. While Daniel will forever remain my favorite character of the show, he doesn't need to be the center of every scene he's in to make an impact; especially in this one where he's trying to come to terms with the death of his friends (as far as he knows atm). I thought it was very appropriate to have him in the background, it's very much in his character to grief alone. I think golfbooy put it best:

His reaction to the apparent deaths of his friends was great and very much in character. No gnashing of teeth or beating of breast, just the same reserved, quiet sadness which he displayed after the deaths of both Sha're and Janet Frasier

While the destruction of Promethus was tragic, it was very well excuted. I could not believe they would really blow the ship up WHILE I was watching it get blown up (I actually didn't see the trailer or read any of the spoilers, so this REALLY was a surprise). It was a jaw dropping moment for me and the show hadn't done that to me since last season with Reckoning part II. Yes, it's an inanimate object.. but for some reason I still felt shocked and sad.

I was also sad to see Pendergast go even though I wasn't every emotionally invested in the character.. I suppose it was the way he went. Very selfless and truely worthy to be part of the SGC team. The deaths of all those personnel show just what kind of people made up Stargate Command.

Like other people said, this episode felt very like an 'old' SG1 show. I felt everyone (except Teal'c.. again) had a very prominent role to play and it did not just showcase anyone in particular. The emotional scene at reuniting with Sam kinda made up for Teal'c's lack of other things to do. Sorta.

Even though it was such a dark episode there were a few lines of very delightfully amusing humor. Amusing humor.. that was redundant... anyway! I was waiting to see what Cam would do with the 'big chair' and I found it funny and appropriate that he didn't take it. As with pratically everyone else, I loved Daniel's line in the cell.

I'm sure there are tons of other things that could be commented on.. but I'll wrap this up because it's getting to be too long.

PugGate
February 4th, 2006, 07:06 PM
I think it was a bit of a regression for Daniel in this ep because he was acting just like he did in S1. He's like 'I'm sure I can just waltz onto a planet where two factions are about to nuke themselves and negotiate with a lying sob even though they'll want to kill me on sight.' Cam should'f just knocked him out and locked him into a closet until they took out the satelite and nuked the Rand Protectorate and the Caleddies. He was acting so freaking naive.

And what was with the locator beacon? If he's gonna get searched as soon as he steps through the gate, maybe they should've cut him open and stuffed it in his chest or something. Now that I'm done ranting about DJ, why the Prommie????:o

binkpmmc
February 4th, 2006, 07:13 PM
I agree. While Daniel will forever remain my favorite character of the show, he doesn't need to be the center of every scene he's in to make an impact; especially in this one where he's trying to come to terms with the death of his friends (as far as he knows atm). I thought it was very appropriate to have him in the background, it's very much in his character to grief alone. I think binkpmmc put it best:


While the destruction of Promethus was tragic, it was very well excuted. I could not believe they would really blow the ship up WHILE I was watching it get blown up (I actually didn't see the trailer or read any of the spoilers, so this REALLY was a surprise). It was a jaw dropping moment for me and the show hadn't done that to me since last season with Reckoning part II. Yes, it's an inanimate object.. but for some reason I still felt shocked and sad.

I was also sad to see Pendergast go even though I wasn't every emotionally invested in the character.. I suppose it was the way he went. Very selfless and truely worthy to be part of the SGC team. The deaths of all those personnel show just what kind of people made up Stargate Command.

Like other people said, this episode felt very like an 'old' SG1 show. I felt everyone (except Teal'c.. again) had a very prominent role to play and it did not just showcase anyone in particular. The emotional scene at reuniting with Sam kinda made up for Teal'c's lack of other things to do. Sorta.

Even though it was such a dark episode there were a few lines of very delightfully amusing humor. Amusing humor.. that was redundant... anyway! I was waiting to see what Cam would do with the 'big chair' and I found it funny and appropriate that he didn't take it. As with pratically everyone else, I loved Daniel's line in the cell.

I'm sure there are tons of other things that could be commented on.. but I'll wrap this up because it's getting to be too long.

Just a quick clarification - the quote you attribute to me is not mine.

AnotherEvilAlien
February 4th, 2006, 07:17 PM
While the destruction of Promethus was tragic, it was very well excuted.

I disagree. The Prometheus got it's ass kicked royally. Had the Prometheus dished out some pain and then gone down... that would have been one thing.

However, the Prometheus went down like King Kong vs. airplanes. It simply got blown out of space without doing a thing. And THAT upsets me. The writters should have had the crew of Prometheus put up one hell of a fight before going down.

binkpmmc
February 4th, 2006, 07:24 PM
Edited to add...even though it's against regulations...not to say it doesn't happen. (Just not too thrilled about the "supposed" 21C of the base is doing this when he would have to punish junior personnel for the same thing).

I see Carter, who reports directly to Landry per J. Mallozzi, as 2IC of the base not Mitchell. It has not been addressed on screen and the closest they came was in 4HM2 when Landry was sick and it was pretty clear to me when Carter was in the Control Room and she ordered the SFs guarding the Gate when Teal'c came through to stand down. And I will add my agreement with others that having the supposed co-leader of SG1, the elite SG team, with beer on base (it was clearly Coors Light) is just another strike against Mitchell (while it is small it is the small things, coupled with the humungously bad and annoying things, that continue to add up and continue to drive this character into the ground, IMO).

majorsal
February 4th, 2006, 07:31 PM
And what was with the locator beacon? If he's gonna get searched as soon as he steps through the gate, maybe they should've cut him open and stuffed it in his chest or something. Now that I'm done ranting about DJ, why the Prommie????:o

LOL! :p

hope you're not a doctor? :jack_new_anime18:




sally :p

Dani347
February 4th, 2006, 07:48 PM
Whoever said that Daniel had to be the center of every scene???????? I liked his silent grief. The only reason I'm the least bit annoyed with Jared making arguments that Daniel would have made was because they barely gave Daniel a chance to make them in earlier scenes when he wasn't incapacitated with grief. If they showed more of him doing that in otherscenes, especially considering the storyline, I would have been fine with that scene in the cell.

Kanten
February 4th, 2006, 07:59 PM
I disagree. The Prometheus got it's ass kicked royally. Had the Prometheus dished out some pain and then gone down... that would have been one thing.

However, the Prometheus went down like King Kong vs. airplanes. It simply got blown out of space without doing a thing. And THAT upsets me. The writters should have had the crew of Prometheus put up one hell of a fight before going down.

I really couldn't have seen the Prometheus going down any different there. If there was a lengthy battle, it would've diminished the effect the scene had. One of the major points of Prometheus going down was to show how powerful and dangerous the Ori tech is going to be when they launch their invasion.

The other major point was the danger the true believers of the Ori pose. It doesn't take the best resources or technology in the galaxy to build a weapon as dangerous as that satellite, it only takes the right plans from the right people. President Nadal is the model of how much of a dangerous enemy the Ori can make their followers.

This was not a feel-good episode of SG-1. The fans' hatred for Nadal would have nowhere near the degree it was if the Prometheus went out in a blaze of glory. After Prometheus had been crippled by the first two shots from the satellite and Nadal ordered the final one, it was no longer self-defense, it was MURDER. That scene was supposed to upset us.

Dannygirl
February 4th, 2006, 08:00 PM
In regards to Daniel taking backseat to two minor characters discussing their political situation, I honestly thought it necessary in this instance. It's hard to put a finger on the why's of this, but I honestly thought the writers had it right. In this situation, reasoning and peace or even an attempt at them would never have been possible with such religious fanaticism in the way. It's why it's called fanaticism. Having reason come from a third party (Daniel) wouldn't have worked, so they had it come from Jared instead because he's a Rand Protectorate and a friend. Wish I could explain it better.

As for Mitchell's credibility when bringing in the beer, I recall Jack doing much MUCH worse during his 8 year stay.

Quinn Mallory
February 4th, 2006, 09:18 PM
This was an interesting episode. Sad in the destruction of the Prometheus and the death of Pendergast.

What did bother me rather plenty however was the ease in which the team thought the Ori satellite can be destroyed. Haven't we learned already that the Ori are pretty badass and their weapons and plans are not going to be that easy to defeat. There were definitely an air of overconfidence in the SG-1 and the Prometheus crew before the mission which I thought was odd.

Laros
February 4th, 2006, 09:28 PM
Awesome ep. I love episodes were characters die and valuable ships get blown up just for the sake of demonstrating how screwed we really are when the Ori send their ships.

Also great to see that recurring characters/ships don't always have to die a heroic death. It's nice when they die just because of overconfidence.

Buzz Lightyear
February 4th, 2006, 09:41 PM
In my opinion, this episode made rebalanced stargate's realistic scale. The 303 class (Prommie/ Daed) seemed to be portrayed as a indestructible spaceship.

Obviously this isn't true now that we've seen it.

This episode was pretty good except for one thing:
The Hesitation of the Prommie Crew.

I know they care for Daniel, especially now that Oma isn't there to re-ascend him if he dies. Also, the schematics Kane brought to Earth were EARLY schematics. I'm pretty sure shields would definately be added. With that said, they should have automatically destroyed the satellite upon exiting hyperspace and then destroy the Rand Protectorate bunker. Also, Daniel's location beacon should have been a tiny little thing that he could attack to his glasses or watch or something.

I'm not sure "indestructible" is the proper term to use here. I doubt any viewer ever thought the Prometheus and the Daedalus were indestructible. They always broke off engagements when shield strength dropped dangerously low. However, neither ship was ever portrayed with any sense of being in real jeopardy, even when the Prometheus was stolen/hijacked (episodes 611, 812, 913) or confronted alien entities (713), or during any of the Daedalus' encounters with Wraith hive ships. This was the first time I got the feeling the Earth ship was in WAAAY over its head.

I totally agree that the hesitation of the Prometheus command was its downfall. Who exactly was in charge here? Pendergast? Carter? Mitchell? I realize the writers wrote in the command confusion but is that realistic? And as soon as their first missile volley revealed the satellite's defensive capability, surely someone - anyone - would have immediately called for evasive maneuvers. That was sloppy plotting, imo. They could still have written in the eventual destruction of the Prometheus but it should have gone down fighting rather than just sitting there like a lame duck waiting to be slaughtered.

the fifth man
February 4th, 2006, 09:56 PM
I just got done watching this ep again a little bit ago. As usual, I liked it even more on the second go around. Which, in this case was pretty hard, since I thought it was excellent the first time around. I still, in a way, can't get over the destruction of the Prometheus. I do agree though, that the true might of the Ori had to be shown at some point. And I'm sure we'll see it a lot more too down the road.

PG15
February 4th, 2006, 09:58 PM
Why do you assume I need to see Prometheus being blow to kingdom come (without doing a damn thing in return) to know the Ori are powerful. For christ's sake, the Ori weren't even in the episode, just their influence.

And that itself was enough to blow the Prometheus to kingdom come.


Having to see the Ori destroy the Prometheus to show the Ori are evil is like having to carry, by hand, every single dollar that Bill Gates has cross-country to prove he's rich.

Huh?

We can see that Gates is rich by seeing him buying stuff. At the same time, we can see the Ori as powerful by them destroying stuff. Namely, our Prometheus.


They almost killed all of earth with their virus, I *KNOW* they are dangerous.

And yet we got out of it. This time we weren't so lucky.

That little difference was what made this so much more satisfying (IMHO) than TFH.

You have real attachment issues, you know that?


Ah. So Janet will be returning from the grave then, huh? :rolleyes:

Uh, no that wasn't a foreshadowing. Can't you tell?

Ok, you know why I knew it was foreshadowing? Because the writer himself said so. Check out the "Ripple Effect deleted scenes" on the front page.


Yeah, showing that the writers just wanted to justify the act.

You should never have to justify what's in the script. If you do, something's wrong with it.

They don't have to justify a single thing. Do you know what foreshadowing means?

Ok, look, read that deleted scenes thing I pointed out, and you can see that RE foreshadows Ethon, Camelot, and Counter-Strike.

And here's what I think they are:



We've already seen what the Ethon foreshadowing did. The second Ori beachhead is apparently due to arrive in Camelot, and the "cut the green wire" thing is most likely in Counter-Strike.

Anyway, just a little tangent.


Oh, really?

Then why didn't they FOLLOW THEIR ****ING PLAN and run in case they couldn't do anything?

You know what? I have no idea.

Probably thought that the shields can protect it. And then of course there was Daniel.


It's a TV show. Not a war. We've been in several wars since WWII, but the United States hasn't lost a single carrier since WWII. In the meantime, it took Earth less than 4 years to lose their first BC.

Ok, first of all, comparing a carrier, one of the most advanced and fortified things in the world, with a prototype space ship (the first one we've ever had) is kinda...not right.

Also, it doesn't matter that it's a TV show, since it's TV show that's trying to portray war, which I assume they would want to do as real as possible.


"Hi, my name is PG15, and I'm a hypocrite."

Oh, you're such a nice lad.


So you don't give a damn if Pendergast or Prometheus bites the dust, but you whine when I suggest that we should just start killing off the entire cast? That's asinine hypocritic banter.

Of course I gave a damn. If I didn't I wouldn't be discussing this.

But I also understand that, in order to create drama in a series that's based on warfare and struggles, you win some and you loose some. So far, we've won far too many times against an enemy as powerful as the Ancients. It's about time we take some losses, and unfortunately that means the Prometheus.


You don't care, as long as you get to choose and pick who lives and dies. Well, well, well. That's all fine and dandy, but it sort of ruins whatever creditibility you had.

Sure sure, whatever.

Since apparently I don't have any credibility left, I'm guessing you won't reply anymore. Well, that's just too bad.

Still, I'm gonna make my point anyway. All I was doing (or trying to do) was to tell you that, as the main characters. They have close to ZERO CHANCE of being killed. Weir dying? Not really likely. Atlantis sinking and being destroyed? Equally unlikely. SG1 getting blown to bits? Not gonna happen, at least not permanently.

And if you try to hit me with Daniel dying, well, we knew the actor is leaving, that's a whole other story.

You will never, NEVER see a story where, say, Sam dies and doesn't comeback, and we don't hear about Amanda Tapping quiting before hand.

BUT, the Prometheus, nor Pendergast, is a main character/vehicle, and YES, I AM SAD THEY ARE GONE, but I also accept that, since they can't really kill off their main characters to prove a point, they go for the next "best" thing.

Do you get it now? Or do you want to keep trading insults?


You must have crapped bricks when RDA left,

I was sad, but I wasn't doing...uh...that.


or when Sheppard was set up to kill himself at the end of Season 1. "We need sarcrifices, but don't kill off any major characters!" (Dear god, did you go stark raving mad when Daniel died... twice?) :rolleyes:

Heh, coming from Star Trek, where no one really dies, I didn't feel "scared" at all. All I wanted to do was to see how it ends.



2.) Even an Asgard shield will fail if hit with enough big weapons.

I know you weren't talking to me, but the Asgard shields the Prommie had in Lost City took on a lot from Anubis's mothership.

Buzz Lightyear
February 4th, 2006, 10:02 PM
Well, stupidity has always been part of human nature. How could people not see that the Rand leader than gone mad? How can ANYONE follow a mad moron like that? And then when the Kaledonians got a choice, even with the assurance that the Ori would destroy them if they stay, they refused to take it.

And why weren't the Rand smart enough fire at the Kaledonian capitol with their satellite? As long as it's not broken, use it. Needless to say, it's pretty safe to assume both will destroy each other.

And how stupid can someone get? My great-great-great-moron-of-a-grandfather started this war! Now I have to see to it that we win?! "The Kaledonians deserved to die long before the Prior ever came here" (or something like that). Those were the words of the mad Rand protectorate leader and STILL, there were soldiers willing to follow him after he was shot!

Ok, you're not seriously asking these questions with our real world politics the way they are? Ethnic hatreds on Earth have existed for centuries. In just the last 20 years we've had "ethnic cleansings" in the Balkans, Rwanda, and east Africa, just to name a few regions. Hatred for "the other side" has been handed down for generations in the Middle East and Northern Ireland. And as for how anyone can follow a mad moron... well, just check out some of the world political and religious leaders today.

Regarding why Rand didn't fire at the Caledonian capital with the Ori weapon. They DID target the capital under the orders of the Rand president but the order was rescinded as a result of the agreement brokered by Daniel Jackson (and after the president was killed). However, certain leaders in Caledonia must have decided to take their reprieve from the satellite weapon as an opportunity for a first strike nuclear attack. No doubt that disabled Rand's control of the weapon (remember? nukes cause a lot of EM radiation). Rand's only other recourse would have been to launch their nuclear missiles in retaliation.

Buzz Lightyear
February 4th, 2006, 10:15 PM
... especially given that the planet ultimately destroyed itself in the end. (Although that did show us the lazy (or sly like a fox) side of the Ori – don’t waste your own resources decimating native populations – give them a tool or two and let them do it to themselves.)

I'm not sure the Ori would want Tegalas to destroy itself. After all, it would be in their interest to recruit more worshippers, not have them commit suicide. If anything, the Ori miscalculated big time with this planet. They did not properly research the politics of Rand and Caledonia, otherwise they would have realized that giving an advantage to one over the other was not the correct strategy to convert the people. The Ori had a taste of that with the Jaffa already, and the Jaffa are a far more united people than those of Tegalas.

Buzz Lightyear
February 4th, 2006, 10:22 PM
Yep - I picked up on the Vorlon/Shadow thing long ago. We all know what happened with that - neither was what they seemed to be! I'm hoping TPTB can come up with something just as wild.

Much as I like Stargate, so far I haven't seen any SG writer that I would rank alongside JMS.

whatswiththehairtealc
February 5th, 2006, 12:01 AM
pendergast got beamed out by a cloked asgard ship!!!!

long live Col. Pendergast!!!!!!

Raj_2006
February 5th, 2006, 12:30 AM
Wasn't the Odysessy meant to be in this episode? And why kill Col. Pendergast, he was good at wht he was?

happyclappy
February 5th, 2006, 12:47 AM
im dissapointed the the prometheus was so useless!!!!! and so much for asgard resiliance. but phewww, the explosion wa the best!!! i love the way it was torn in two bits. dont get me wrong, it was a tragedy but the was it was done was superb.

Skythe
February 5th, 2006, 12:55 AM
First of all, the ship scenes in this episode, i thought, were horrible. And by that i mean the ship getting hit by the sattellite, the 'chaos' that resulted, it all seemed so fake (although i did like the scene of some crew getting sucked out of the ship). The convention in sci fi for sparks to fly when a ship gets hit by missles/etc kind of annoys me (question: would it really happen?)

Somewhat of a tragedy-prone episode. It was nice to see the captain go down with the ship (even if it was a little cliche). I would have preferred to see the planet destroy itself, would have fitted nicely with the theme. The carter-random naive newbie scenes were sort of pointless (i dont know why this guy was with her). Seems they have tried new camera angles, it was all wobbly like :| dont think i like that. The head military dude was somewhat noble and cool. It was silly for daniel to not forsee the insane president break the deal they made. blablabla etc.

I did like the episode title 'Ethon' (greek mythology - hawk that ate the liver of prometheus at like noon every day). It at least allowed me to get a gist of
the episode without completely spoiling it. The episode was fair, so i'd give it about a half (5/10), due to the crappy shipgethitbymissle scenes sort of scenes and i personally thought the acting was sorta bad (come on - how fake was Gerads scream when they chief military dude and prez shot each other :p) but i would still consider this one of the worst eps of the season.

Agent_Dark
February 5th, 2006, 12:57 AM
pendergast got beamed out by a cloked asgard ship!!!!

long live Col. Pendergast!!!!!!
Hahaha :D

He and Grodin are living with the Asgard!

FallenAngelII
February 5th, 2006, 01:05 AM
As an hommage to the Prometheus, the Odyssey should have theme that's based on the Prometheus' theme.

wizelf
February 5th, 2006, 01:14 AM
For those of you who have watched SGA, I think that the destruction of the ship will tie in with SGA's finale and Season 3 opener... Just a thought. I won't write spoilers here...

Raj_2006
February 5th, 2006, 01:57 AM
I hope you mean the theme in the the Episode Promotheus when carters says, "This is the X-303, otherwise known as Promotheues" then the theme comes. Tht theme was perfect in my opinion. :D:D:D

FallenAngelII
February 5th, 2006, 02:04 AM
I hope you mean the theme in the the Episode Promotheus when carters says, "This is the X-303, otherwise known as Promotheues" then the theme comes. Tht theme was perfect in my opinion. :D:D:D

Yeah, that one.

Dromag67
February 5th, 2006, 03:16 AM
I disagree. The Prometheus got it's ass kicked royally. Had the Prometheus dished out some pain and then gone down... that would have been one thing.

However, the Prometheus went down like King Kong vs. airplanes. It simply got blown out of space without doing a thing. And THAT upsets me. The writters should have had the crew of Prometheus put up one hell of a fight before going down.

Ever read about the real prometheus?

Tragedy anyone?

FallenAngelII
February 5th, 2006, 03:24 AM
Basically, all Greek myths and plays are tragedies. Even the comedies and romance ones have tragedy in them.

ShimmeringStar
February 5th, 2006, 03:45 AM
I'm not sure the Ori would want Tegalas to destroy itself. After all, it would be in their interest to recruit more worshippers, not have them commit suicide. If anything, the Ori miscalculated big time with this planet. They did not properly research the politics of Rand and Caledonia, otherwise they would have realized that giving an advantage to one over the other was not the correct strategy to convert the people. The Ori had a taste of that with the Jaffa already, and the Jaffa are a far more united people than those of Tegalas.True, the more worshippers they have in their clutches the more powerful they become. But on the flip side... just for discussion sake... they have already destroyed entire civilizations on other planets without a second thought. What's another one, especially one that isn't totally dedicated to them, when the galaxy and the universe remain to be conquered? Hadn't they said something about their followers having to choose to come to them of their own free will? Plus this way they don't have to send a Prior out to babysit... they give them the basic scare (plague) and imprint their religion on them and if the planet stays committed to the Ori their souls will be there when the Ori need them.. otherwise they'll end up killing each other using the satellite. (Kind of like a farming technique... they'll be the ripe for pickin's when needed, otherwise they'll self-cull the non-believers...)

Margaret
February 5th, 2006, 03:46 AM
I'm hoping it may at least be mentioned at some point in The Scourge. I don't think our foreign allies are going to be too thrilled that the SGC got Earth's flagship and primary defense platform destroyed on an off-world mission that didn't concern Earth directly. I would think Woolsey would have a hissy fit about that one.

Cam's concern was that Rand would become a base for building and launching an Ori fleet. That's why he said, "We have to nip this trend squarely in the bud."

Even though Daniel feels bad that the Rand and the Caledonians destroyed each other, it gives the rest of the Milky Way Galaxy a breather from the Priors plans for domination. In the present state of Tegalus, they no longer have a society or an economy capable of supporting advanced weapons production.

Well, we hope they don't, anyway. One of the things that we learned about fire-bombing civilian populations in World War II was that it quickly brings more of the civilian population into the war effort. Because once you destroy the civilian sector, the military is the only game in town.

Mesenet
February 5th, 2006, 04:34 AM
“Now THAT’S what I am talking about!”
Lt. Col. Cameron Mitchell on getting the band back together

At last, an episode that is classic SG-1! It has been a long time since an intelligent script (reminiscent of Seasons 1 – 4) has been offered. Ethon returned SG-1 to its original premise of the team, while exploring the gate system, dealing with moral issues: social, cultural, or in this case, military conflict exasperated by their last visit.

I found the dark undertow and surprise twists refreshing. Bravo to Damian Kindler (with Robert C. Cooper) for throwing us starving fans a juicy bone to gnaw on. Thank you for rewarding us (long time devoted fans) with an intriguing storyline and strong script. Hope the other TPTB are taking note.

Piratejenna
February 5th, 2006, 05:34 AM
Not sure if it's been mentioned further up the thread, but I'd like to give a shout out to Ken Girotti, who directed Ethon. He seemed to bring a fresh eye to the story, but also paid a lot of attention to the character dynamics which give us that 'team' feeling. I'm probably committing sacrilege here, but I think that part of the problem in Ripple Effect and Stronghold was PDL's directing. The writing for both episodes was actually pretty good, but the direction kept missing key character moments - instead of giving us the little team nuances, PDL was trying to insert heavy-handed references to Sam/Cam, or allowing BB to go wildly OTT (even good actors need a little direction now and then!). Ken Girotti gave Ethon plenty of pace, but also plenty of subtlety. It makes a lot of difference.

dosed150
February 5th, 2006, 05:49 AM
this episode shows how much of a threat the ori must be i mean if a primitive copy of an ori weapon can do that to the prometheus imagine how powerful proper ori weapons are but i though the resolution was a bit rubbish yeh they just nuked each other end of story makes the sacrifice seem pointless they should have done something more with the story

Tok'Ra Hostess
February 5th, 2006, 06:09 AM
Excellent episode!

Wow, Prometheus is gone:eek:

Poor, brave Pendergast. :( I was deeply distressed at the demise of Pendergast and a good chunk of his crew and his ship. That was very well done, and nice to have the end scene between Dan and Cam mention the memorial. Thank you for that. You don't know how much that sort of thing means to us viewers. :)

For a while I thought Senator Kane was going to turn out to be a Prior sympathiser who was part of some plan to attack the Earth humans.(He didn't worship Origin, yet he survived the plague?:S ) But I'm glad that he wasn't. It was nice to see him as the Daniel of his world.

Speaking of Daniel and the rest of the team - terrific interaction among all of them. They all showed actual concern and feelings for each other. All I can say is,

IT'S ABOUT FRIGGIN' TIME, BOYS!!!
No, seriously, please, please, please keep this up. This has been so sorely lacking in the entire series. I am willing to overlook just about any-sized plothole in exchange for seeing the team respond to each other's needs and feelings about what's going on around them.

The tension, for me, ran high throughout this episode, and I really liked the Commander Perneaux/President Nadal - Minister Chaska/Sam Carter scenes. Perneaux was terrific throughout the ep.

What a downer that all their efforts were for nothing, though. So realistic. :(
I'll be happy to vote Ethon as an Outstanding ep.

rosewood
February 5th, 2006, 06:10 AM
Not sure if it's been mentioned further up the thread, but I'd like to give a shout out to Ken Girotti, who directed Ethon. He seemed to bring a fresh eye to the story, but also paid a lot of attention to the character dynamics which give us that 'team' feeling. I'm probably committing sacrilege here, but I think that part of the problem in Ripple Effect and Stronghold was PDL's directing. The writing for both episodes was actually pretty good, but the direction kept missing key character moments - instead of giving us the little team nuances, PDL was trying to insert heavy-handed references to Sam/Cam, or allowing BB to go wildly OTT (even good actors need a little direction now and then!). Ken Girotti gave Ethon plenty of pace, but also plenty of subtlety. It makes a lot of difference.


Yep, I totally agree. The difference in this episode was the direction, and that showed up in the choices of the actors, the cameraman and the editing.

My only gripe was the ending. After all their efforts and mistakes, it'd have been better to see the devastated stargate or planet after Rand and the Caledonians destroyed each other - even if it was just the Cylon (sorry, forget the character's name, he was Cylon in the BSG mini) sending a choppy message back telling Daniel (imho).

Thus far, I've liked the back half of season 9 more than the front half.

nyxlily
February 5th, 2006, 06:41 AM
Just a quick clarification - the quote you attribute to me is not mine.

Sorry :D I fixed it! I wasn't paying enough attention to who was quoting whom.




I disagree. The Prometheus got it's ass kicked royally. Had the Prometheus dished out some pain and then gone down... that would have been one thing.


They were caught by surprise. Carter *thought* the satellite didn't have any defensive capabilities and the fact that it took several minutes after each shot to recharge as a inferior weapon. They had no idea the weapon can penetrate their shield.. I can't speak for the people making this show.. but to me it means these Ori guys can still surprise our heroes and is VERY MUCH still a threat, despite their (temporary?) advantage over the Priors. I don't like having the Ori as the enemy much.. but hey, at least they're trying to make them menacing and evil and NOT to be underestimated. The ship went down to show the audience what the Ori is capable of and how desperate our people just got in finding a way to stop them. As much as I hate having Prometheus go down without a fight.. I think it was necessary

nccjones
February 5th, 2006, 06:52 AM
good for you seriously.

now no offense or anything but how much are ya'll paid?

Well, all you have to do is do a google search on military pay and you will see what we get paid, plus all the extras we get. I've been in for 19 years and I have a 3 bedroom house, 2 cars and I'm living quite comfortably. Once I retire I will have medical and dental for the rest of my life, plus retainer pay. I don't know why people are on under the misconception that the military is underpaid.

Sorry off topic, but I have to defend my military even if it's an attack against the pay system. Besides, the old saying about military is they didn't join to become rich, they joined to defend our country and her beliefs.

Either way, to go back on topic, I still thought this was a great episode. I just finished watching it for the second time and was really tore up with Pendergast. His closing his eyes at the moment of death was so powerful. I truly believe he was thinking about his family at that moment. I have to say this is one of the best episodes I've seen in a long time.

The Prometheus was destroyed on a mission that two Lt Col's were heading up. I don't believe they went off half cocked on this mission. I'm sure the Pentagon was briefed and approved of the mission. So I don't consider that a plot hole. Still love the scenes with Teal'c. That man can say more with his expressions than anyone can actually speak. He's awesome!

nccjones
February 5th, 2006, 07:11 AM
pendergast got beamed out by a cloked asgard ship!!!!

long live Col. Pendergast!!!!!!

LOL! I love that theory. Not sure where it came from, but I'm with ya!

nccjones
February 5th, 2006, 07:15 AM
As an hommage to the Prometheus, the Odyssey should have theme that's based on the Prometheus' theme.

US ships are named after Presidents and military heroes. The next Earth Ship after Odyssey should be the Pendergast.

DEM
February 5th, 2006, 08:53 AM
Not sure if it's been mentioned further up the thread, but I'd like to give a shout out to Ken Girotti, who directed Ethon. He seemed to bring a fresh eye to the story, but also paid a lot of attention to the character dynamics which give us that 'team' feeling. I'm probably committing sacrilege here, but I think that part of the problem in Ripple Effect and Stronghold was PDL's directing.Great observation. Girotti gets around, and I've been impressed with all of his work that I've seen (and can remember; e.g., Cold Lazarus, XWP's Ides of March).

Girotti also has a knack for covering up weaknesses in a script -- to the extent that it's possible. Thus, many of the structural or motivational problems in Ethon's story didn't hit me as I was watching; it was only upon reflection that I found some elements didn't quite sit right with me, that I couldn't reconcile completely with series or character history. In other words, removed from Girotti's excellent direction, the usual Kindler (and Cooper) scripting weaknesses were made manifest.

Of course, no tv director could cover up the lack of even the barest hint of mission approval :rolleyes: because tv directors, in general, can't change scripts. But whereas PdL might have done some grand, sweeping mini-crane push-in on the beers and thereby magnified the script weakness (cf the overly-long leering that closed Window of Opportunity or the kissing scene in Affinity), KG 'normalised' the beer exchange, or at least didn't overly emphasise it.

ellenrose
February 5th, 2006, 09:07 AM
Enjoyed Ethon very much. Sad yet full of suspense. The pace was very good and never let up until the end. The guest stars were excellent. The politics of the story are relevant and biting. Our team made mistakes and the consequences of previous and current actions were brought home tragically. The threat of the ORI felt real and immediate.

To quote Mitchell in Avalon part I - "Politics does really suck everywhere you go."

LoneStar1836
February 5th, 2006, 09:55 AM
I guess the episode was okay. I could have cared less about that planet and whatever political/religious struggles were taking place between those two nations. Why were these people fighting in the first place? (before the Ori stepped in) Wasn’t a big fan of Icon either so I guess that ep explained why they hated each other.... So because I didn’t care about the planet, I really didn’t care whether Daniel and SG-1 adverted a war or not or if they could stop the Ori influence.

Okay what happened to all that really high tech Asgard beaming technology that we saw so conveniently employed in Atlantis against the Wraith ships? Was it just not convenient for this episode? One could argue “oh the shields were too advanced blah blah blah”, but they didn’t even try that option to see if it would work..... If you are going to employ that option in your other TV show, at least don’t pretend that it doesn’t exist in this one. That’s why I was and still really am not a fan of either the Prometheus or the Dadelus. They provided a quick fix to certain problems.

They were fools for think that Rand would agree to give up its gate in order to protect its satellite. What idiot actually believed them? I wasn’t happy when Mitchell backed down from destroying the satellite. They had just destroyed the Prometheus for Pete’s sake. As she was trying to surrender. Dumb move. Yeah it might have cost Daniel his life, but he was already willing to risk it anyway by just going to that planet in the first place. They could obviously build another satellite, but a stargate (and the advantage it offers) is practically irreplaceable.

Though for a second there I considered the possibility that Rand may have been trying to trick that other side into taking the gate so that the Ori could send one of those nice priors to pay them a visit and “convert” them as well. Seeing as how they can only use the stargate to travel from place to place and not just appear anywhere at will. If the two nations are isolated from one another, the Caledonians was spared the plague. Right? Or did I miss some bit of dialogue saying they weren’t.

I was spoiled on the fate of the Prometheus for this ep. Never really a fan of the Prometheus, but it was rather sad to she her destroyed like that. :( Wasted on such a worthless cause.... At least it was Col Pendergast that died the hero’s death. I liked him. I could never stand Col Ronson.

As much as I may have not enjoyed this episode, at least I watched it and gave it a chance knowing that it was revisiting the Icon episode. Which is more than I can say for SGA’s The Two Towers. When it came on, I discovered that Dateline NBC was airing a special where they catch internet predators in chat rooms and confront them. So needless to say I watched that instead of SGA.... Sci-fi’s PR department needs to be fired after the promos for Friday night’s episode of SGA, and the writers need to toss that angle for Sheppard into the nearest blackhole. :rolleyes:

wizelf
February 5th, 2006, 10:25 AM
"Okay what happened to all that really high tech Asgard beaming technology that we saw so conveniently employed in Atlantis against the Wraith ships? "

Maybe the technology used in the Daedalus is move advanced than what they had in Prometheus. Then again, maybe they didn't carry any nukes with them!

whatswiththehairtealc
February 5th, 2006, 11:31 AM
since the tracking beacon was so conviently taken away from Daniel, maybe its time for like implanted locator beacons so they can always beam up their people even when their are in enemy hands.

captainpash
February 5th, 2006, 11:47 AM
Oh I am seriously unhappy! :o Do they really have so many recurring characters that they feel the need to bump them off every now and again? I really liked Pendergast. I can't believe we're not going to see him any more. If they ever even think of touching Dr. Lee....:mad:

Don't worry we make Lee a lead character in stargate genesis my VS. Anyways great ep. I can see why people think it was more old stargate, but it still doesn't top last weeks ep. Go Ba'al

LoneStar1836
February 5th, 2006, 11:53 AM
Maybe the technology used in the Daedalus is move advanced than what they had in Prometheus. Then again, maybe they didn't carry any nukes with them!As much upgrading as they are always doing on the Prometheus, I'd guess the beaming technology was up to par. Course that's just my guess.

Even if they didn’t have any nukes, beam some armed missile warheads over there or a naquidah generator (they did have one of those) that’s about to overload. Something. Anything. Would have been better than the alternative.

My beef with that is that they didn't even mention that as a possible option to try even though they were successful with it in the Pegasus galaxy.

“Let’s shoot some missiles at it. Oh ****. That didn’t work, what now? Quick, launch the F-302s to go shoot some more missiles at it.”

PG15
February 5th, 2006, 12:22 PM
I know it's a Trek rule, but is there a rule in Stargate where you can't beam through shields?

I mean, the reason it worked for the Wraith at first is because they don't have shields.

F-302 Alpha
February 5th, 2006, 02:05 PM
I know it's a Trek rule, but is there a rule in Stargate where you can't beam through shields?

I mean, the reason it worked for the Wraith at first is because they don't have shields.


I agree are there any cases where asgard beams pentrated sheilds?

talyn2k1
February 5th, 2006, 02:15 PM
When they were evacuating the Prometheus I think its shields were still up, albeit depleted and useless against the Ori Satellite. Will have to rewatch to be sure.
Even if they were, it might be that they can only beam through their own shields and not other ships' shields.

AnotherEvilAlien
February 5th, 2006, 03:11 PM
They were caught by surprise. Carter *thought* the satellite didn't have any defensive capabilities and the fact that it took several minutes after each shot to recharge as a inferior weapon. They had no idea the weapon can penetrate their shield..


And, as to Carter's previous suggestion, they should have gotten the hell out of there. Instead, they simply sat there and assumed the shield would save them.

The United States military doesn't just assume something, they plan and they make backup plans in case something fails - especially so with something as important as a flagship.



I can't speak for the people making this show.. but to me it means these Ori guys can still surprise our heroes and is VERY MUCH still a threat, despite their (temporary?) advantage over the Priors. I don't like having the Ori as the enemy much.. but hey, at least they're trying to make them menacing and evil and NOT to be underestimated.


I knew the Ori were evil, menancing, and a threat long before Ethon. I sorta knew for sure around Beach head.



The ship went down to show the audience what the Ori is capable of

The Ori didn't do anything in this episode besides show up and hand Rand some plans. Had the Ori/Priors showed up, and personally, blown up Prometheus - no harm no foul. That's their calling card.

However, to have a backwoods planet with a crazy, overweight, obnoxious and insanely moronic leader to blast the Prometheus when it was dead in the water because of religious fanaticism...

Yeah, I don't care for that. I saw something along those lines on 9/11.

1.) Had the Ori destroyed Prometheus, it wouldn't have been as bad.
2.) Had the Prometheus DESTROYED the satellite and then have gone down (say, still killing Penderghast), it would have been ideal.


I don't know about you, but had some little ******* of a planet blew up one of our most prized ships (even if, technologically, it sucked compaired to others), I wouldn't leave the planet standing intact. It would be, as said in Aliens: "Nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

http://www.geocities.com/area51/dungeon/3169/NUKE1.JPG

AnotherEvilAlien
February 5th, 2006, 03:22 PM
They were fools for think that Rand would agree to give up its gate in order to protect its satellite. What idiot actually believed them? I wasn’t happy when Mitchell backed down from destroying the satellite. They had just destroyed the Prometheus for Pete’s sake. As she was trying to surrender. Dumb move. Yeah it might have cost Daniel his life, but he was already willing to risk it anyway by just going to that planet in the first place. They could obviously build another satellite, but a stargate (and the advantage it offers) is practically irreplaceable.


Agreed. When Mitchell complied and backed down, I was like "WTF! Daniel, come on! They killed 30 of your friends and took down the Prometheus! TAKE THE RAND BACK TO THE STONE AGE!"

I mean, I know Daniel likes to play diplomat, but sometimes it gets a bit ridiculous. When someone blows a completely defenceless ship out of space when it tried to surrender - that's murder. Screw 'em, they messed up - and they should have paid for it.


But, no, Daniel wanted to be Jimmy Carter and brokered a peace deal that, if the commander guy wouldn't have killed Nadal over, would have gotten Sam, and 70 of his friends killed.

Daniel, bad, bad move.

Margaret
February 5th, 2006, 05:02 PM
I don't know about you, but had some little ******* of a planet blew up one of our most prized ships (even if, technologically, it sucked compaired to others), I wouldn't leave the planet standing intact. It would be, as said in Aliens: "Nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

Leaving aside the fact that that would be mass murder, it would also have the effect of taking out the esteemed Dr. Jackson . . .

Margaret
February 5th, 2006, 05:09 PM
When someone blows a completely defenceless ship out of space when it tried to surrender - that's murder. Screw 'em, they messed up - and they should have paid for it.

What -- you want them to play by the Geneva convention?

And who made the Geneva convention an international standard?

Oh, that's right -- it was those damned diplomats! WTF were they thinking?

Margaret
February 5th, 2006, 05:19 PM
I mean, I know Daniel likes to play diplomat, but sometimes it gets a bit ridiculous. When someone blows a completely defenceless ship out of space when it tried to surrender - that's murder. Screw 'em, they messed up - and they should have paid for it.

"A completely defenseless ship." Boo hoo!

The Prometheus came to make a stealth attack on another country's property in an undeclared war, not even authorised by the President. (Mitchell is gonna get court-martialed for this.)

Big, powerful ship comes to blow away tiny satellite, having been assured that it will be "no problem" and they get their collective kiesters kicked. Then Pendergast lies to the Rand leader about what happened. Unfortunately, Pendergast has just initiated hostilities with a foreign power and they're a bit pissed about it. Pearl Harbor, anyone?

It was Daniel who did the honorable thing when he went to talk to the people of Tegalus. Maybe they wouldn't listen, maybe they didn't listen, but they had the opportunity to decide their own destiny, which is all that free people can really ask for.