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nccjones
February 5th, 2006, 05:37 PM
Leaving aside the fact that that would be mass murder, it would also have the effect of taking out the esteemed Dr. Jackson . . .

Just like Daniel said....."only when I'm dead...and sometimes not even then". I think our esteemed Dr. Jackson would have cheated death once again :daniel:

Margaret
February 5th, 2006, 05:54 PM
Just like Daniel said....."only when I'm dead...and sometimes not even then". I think our esteemed Dr. Jackson would have cheated death once again :daniel:

Yeah ... notice how he was more worried about being tortured than he was about being executed? ;)

GatetheWay
February 5th, 2006, 07:09 PM
"A completely defenseless ship." Boo hoo!

The Prometheus came to make a stealth attack on another country's property in an undeclared war, not even authorised by the President. (Mitchell is gonna get court-martialed for this.)

Big, powerful ship comes to blow away tiny satellite, having been assured that it will be "no problem" and they get their collective kiesters kicked. Then Pendergast lies to the Rand leader about what happened. Unfortunately, Pendergast has just initiated hostilities with a foreign power and they're a bit pissed about it. Pearl Harbor, anyone?

It was Daniel who did the honorable thing when he went to talk to the people of Tegalus. Maybe they wouldn't listen, maybe they didn't listen, but they had the opportunity to decide their own destiny, which is all that free people can really ask for.
Pearl Harbor? Prommie wasn't there to kill anyone one or insert their dominance over them. They were trying to prevent a an inevitable slauter that Jarod's people were going to comit. Yes, Prommie was on a stealth mission to blow up the satilite but that gives that president NO excuse to reject Prommies surrender when they were completely defensless. That's like if soldiers over run enemies line and the enemy soldiers put their hands up in surrender but the soldiers just cut them down with machine fire anyway. That is murder in the rules of war.

the fifth man
February 5th, 2006, 07:31 PM
Yeah ... notice how he was more worried about being tortured than he was about being executed? ;)

Of course. I mean come on, after facing death as many times as he has, I'm sure he doesn't get too nervous anymore. Torture, on the other hand, is a very different matter.:)

LoneStar1836
February 5th, 2006, 07:45 PM
I know it's a Trek rule, but is there a rule in Stargate where you can't beam through shields?

I mean, the reason it worked for the Wraith at first is because they don't have shields.But Joe gave this reply (http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost.php?p=4487442&postcount=2511) some time back about the Wraith ships having shields.

I just figured the Wraith remodulated or (insert shield technobabble of your choice here) their shields in order to prevent any more nukes being beamed aboard. Hmm though I guess that's just reserved for Star Trek.

Guess I'll have to go back and watch that some time when I get a chance (reading transcripts of that ep are no help since I can't visual see what was happening on screen and the dialogue isn't very helpful) because another interpretation of Joe's post could be that the Wraith had their shields down initially and were caught by surprise allowing the Daedalus to take out some before the others raised their shields to block the Asgard beaming tech.

It quite possibly could be that second scenario. Pfft. And here I thought Asgard tech was superior. :D They did mention that there was a safe guard built into the beaming tech to prevent it from being used in such a manor but the little gray dude on Daedalus overrode the commands.

Kanten
February 5th, 2006, 07:50 PM
Even if they didn’t have any nukes, beam some armed missile warheads over there or a naquidah generator (they did have one of those) that’s about to overload. Something. Anything. Would have been better than the alternative.

My beef with that is that they didn't even mention that as a possible option to try even though they were successful with it in the Pegasus galaxy.

The Asgard built safety measures into the beaming systems on board the Earth ships so they couldn't be used for offensive purposes, if you remember. The Daedalus needed Hermiod to deactivate these countermeasures before they could beam the nukes onto the Hive ships. Which kind of begs the question why they didn't ask for an Asgard engineer for Prometheus as well.

Daniel's_twin
February 5th, 2006, 08:15 PM
The Asgard built safety measures into the beaming systems on board the Earth ships so they couldn't be used for offensive purposes, if you remember. The Daedalus needed Hermiod to deactivate these countermeasures before they could beam the nukes onto the Hive ships. Which kind of begs the question why they didn't ask for an Asgard engineer for Prometheus as well.

Because Prometheus doesn't go in-between galaxies every few weeks. Daedalas does, and they need Hermiod to make sure that because of all the stress on the new hyper-drive systems on the new ship that, quite frankly, is rather primitive to be utilizing that kind of technology, it doesn't fly apart or run out of energy and end up in the void between galaxies. That would stink. Prometheus always stayed within the confines of this galaxy, primarily an Earth-defense ship except on special occassions which would require its talents. :cool:

Dannygirl
February 5th, 2006, 08:53 PM
The Asgard built safety measures into the beaming systems on board the Earth ships so they couldn't be used for offensive purposes, if you remember. The Daedalus needed Hermiod to deactivate these countermeasures before they could beam the nukes onto the Hive ships. Which kind of begs the question why they didn't ask for an Asgard engineer for Prometheus as well.

Ah yes, thank you for that recap! I'd completely forgotten that Hermiod had to handle the beaming tech situation when it came to beaming bombs onto the Wraith vessel. Heck, even if there wasn't a safe guard on the beaming tech, the Prommie would've needed a radio transmitter or something on the nuke to beam it inside the satellite.

As for the great Presidential lie, I'm glad Daniel didn't give up. His willingness to continue peace in the face of complete and utter ignorance is what gives people faith that there's more than just war in Earth's future.

AnotherEvilAlien
February 5th, 2006, 09:39 PM
Pearl Harbor? Prommie wasn't there to kill anyone one or insert their dominance over them. They were trying to prevent a an inevitable slauter that Jarod's people were going to comit. Yes, Prommie was on a stealth mission to blow up the satilite but that gives that president NO excuse to reject Prommies surrender when they were completely defensless. That's like if soldiers over run enemies line and the enemy soldiers put their hands up in surrender but the soldiers just cut them down with machine fire anyway. That is murder in the rules of war.

Agreed and said better than I could have.

Earth was, even while attacking, trying to help ALL the citizens of that planet. And, what Nadal did was murder. Firing back at them is retaliation, and IMO, justified.

However, we don't need to worry about that - since they killed themselves and all.

Ascended Times.2
February 5th, 2006, 09:56 PM
Well. WHAT AN EPISODE!
Whoa, geeze, I dunno about the rest of you but...*mouth drops open*

Now, I will miss the Prometheus, and Pendergast, alas, let him live on in fan fictions!
Anyway, was it just me, or did the Prometheus just seem to sit there and wait for the cheese to come?
I know, that I would have had the Pormetheus fire the second they came outta hyperspace, the fighters launched, and the sublight engines already fired up and having the ship dodge and weave and parry,
along with the rail guns firing madly...

Now, was it just me, or were the missiles the Prometheus fired incredibly quick? If the Daedalus could have missiles like that, we can say bu-bye to hive ships.
Does anyone know what was up with that? Plot hole? The missiles are weaker so they are able to move faster?

And, I dunno about the rest of you, but I think this would have been a great episode to bring Jonas back, and the kelownans (Whatever the hell they're called now), the same setting, except you could have both Daniel and Jonas down there attempting to negotiate, AND, you could have had the satellite take a shot, wiping out Jonas as Daniel goes to greet his friends at the landign zone.

Five birds with one satellite, as it were.
Now, I found the team dynamics definately up to standard, and I thought that Cameron wasn't on-duty for the beer, and he'd just lost a close friend (It seemed it from their brief interaction+the fact Cameron hand-delivered the message+He was the leader of the F-302 squadren.

Also, Now, we move onto mass-building of the Daedalus class ships, although, I do wonder if we will get another ship similar to the Prometheus, ah, to be in season six again....

And once again, we STILL have never seen the Prometheus in a 1vs1 Ha'tak battle! And now we never will! ARG!

So, since my hand is craming, all in all, I give this 4.5 stars, looses a star because I really didn't like the setting, and I found this planet a waste of intergalactic space.
Ah, yes, and I truly do believe the Ori are a threat now. Good job TPTB! Keep it up!

buuzero
February 5th, 2006, 10:07 PM
“Now THAT’S what I am talking about!”
Lt. Col. Cameron Mitchell on getting the band back together

At last, an episode that is classic SG-1! It has been a long time since an intelligent script (reminiscent of Seasons 1 – 4) has been offered. Ethon returned SG-1 to its original premise of the team, while exploring the gate system, dealing with moral issues: social, cultural, or in this case, military conflict exasperated by their last visit.

I found the dark undertow and surprise twists refreshing. Bravo to Damian Kindler (with Robert C. Cooper) for throwing us starving fans a juicy bone to gnaw on. Thank you for rewarding us (long time devoted fans) with an intriguing storyline and strong script. Hope the other TPTB are taking note.

Agreed. I totally enjoyed this episode. I'm not a spoiler whore (no offense to those who gobble up spoilers of course!) so I had no idea that the Prometheus would bite it in this episode. I was sincerely surprised, shocked, and amazed that the writers would allow it to happen. This was probably one of the darkest episodes of SG1 I've seen in a while, and I loved every second of it. It's ridiculous how good SG1 Season 9 has been this season and how weak ATL Season 2 has been. But that's for another thread...

I think it was about time we saw some more of the Ori's tech. And the fact that it was some backwoods planet's version of an Ori weapon means to me that the Ori are much deadlier than everyone first thought. If this satellite built by these more primitive people can take down the Prommie, what can the Ori's advanced weaponry do? Scary.

Oh yeah, and to everyone saying we should have nuked the planet, lol, me and my friend were screaming for them to do it too after we saw the Prometheus get cut in two and explode (great special effects btw!) but that would have been a terrible idea. Like others have said, Daniel was on the ground, and it would have killed millions of innocents. Not a good idea by any means.

Can't wait to see where TPTB take this. Will other races get involved? Will the Asgard get off their collective grey butts and help us? We shall see!

Solanalos
February 5th, 2006, 11:12 PM
A few things...

1. Did anyone else just feel extremely bothered that the Rand had such a weapon? I was so angry when it wasn't destroyed. No one should have a weapon like that. I sure hope the Ori haven't done the same for any other planets.

Even if they could easily rebuild another one, I think it needed to be destroyed. Heck post a ship there afterward to blow up any new ones before they get too far along reconstruction.

2. I know this will sound like restating the obvious but it smacks of an attitude completely opposite to the Ancients (think of the planet on 5x03 with Orlin!) Not only did they give these people advance tech, it wasn't for the defense of their followers but to let their followers conquer others on their own planet! It's strange to feel this agitated now considering I knew the show was setting up the Ori to be "evil" ascended beings, but to see them actually act that way.....AAAAARGH.

3. Ok I'm sure someone is going to kill me for this...but here's a question, for those of you who were upset with the death of Lionel Pendergast, how did you take Janet's death 2 years ago? Personally, I've watched "every adventure...from the beginning" :p and enjoyed Janet's presence on the SGC but her death just didn't move me much.

However, Pendergast's death just outraged me through and through but I've yet to figure out why. Possible reasons: it wasn't spoiled/discussed to death? (I knew the Prometheus was going down but I didn't expect anyone to go with it) Or maybe it was because a vindictive enemy who had the option of NOT destroying a defenseless ship and its crew, did it anyways? Any similar thoughts or feelings?

BigBadBob
February 5th, 2006, 11:43 PM
I said spoilers...And the Promethius was just destoryed!!!!!

So, are we offically screwed now?

YodaMate
February 6th, 2006, 03:38 AM
I only looked at the last two pages of discussion (what else can you do when there are 14 of them ? ;) ) and i noticed some discussion about shields and Asgard beams.

Way back in Season 2, the Asgard seem to mop the floor with the Goa'uld using transport beams. This gave the distinct impression that the shields were not a problem. And then in Season 5's finale, Heimdall seems surprised by his inability to beam Thor directly off Anubis' ship. He explains that Anubis has new better shields, ones capable of blocking the beams and even switching to a different frequency that allows ring transport in but not Asgard.

Also note the look of apprehension on Osiris' face in that same episode when Thor fires the first couple of shots, then relief that the new shields held. This implies that Asgard shots used to fly right through the shields. So it's reasonable to assume that Goa'uld shields covered one frequency whereas Anubis covers multiple (my theory is that the Asgard shots are both in and out of phase but Anubis can shield out of phase also).

The reason i'm recounting Anubis' abilities is because of the handy fact that Ancient drones fly right through them, and we've yet to see any shield capable of stopping drones. The Orii satellite could be in the same boat.

Atlantis has further complicated the issue with the Wraith shielding, which would take us into complicated Atlantis spoiler territory, but assuming they also shield on multi frequencies, the Orii satellite very much reminds me of the Ancient satellite in Season 1, which filled up a buffer then fired a straight line shot right through a Wraith hive ship, despite its shielding.

With the drones, i suspect that because they seem to energise is that they somehow interact with the energy that comprises the shield, mold with it and come out the other side. If these straight line energy beams do the same thing, this could account for the slight delay it takes as it passes the shield.

Margaret
February 6th, 2006, 04:20 AM
Pearl Harbor? Prommie wasn't there to kill anyone one or insert their dominance over them.

They WERE there to assert dominance over them. A culture with a superior technology was going to TELL a less-advanced culture what it could and could not do. That's dominance.



They were trying to prevent a an inevitable slauter that Jarod's people were going to comit.

Oh, really? And when the Caledonians launch a land-based attack and roll over the Rand with their superior numbers, what is Mitchell going to do then?



Yes, Prommie was on a stealth mission to blow up the satilite but that gives that president NO excuse to reject Prommies surrender when they were completely defensless. That's like if soldiers over run enemies line and the enemy soldiers put their hands up in surrender but the soldiers just cut them down with machine fire anyway. That is murder in the rules of war.

It's only murder because a bunch of diplomats got together and decided it was murder. And for once, the soldiers decided that the diplomats were right.

Some "nuke 'em'-minded people like to mock Daniel's diplomatic attempts as pointless and futile, but it's diplomacy that made the rules of war what you understand them to be, instead of the "Kill everyone, let God sort them out" attitude of bygone eras.

But along with things like the Geneva Convention, other "rules of war" were established, like principles of national sovreignity and the inviolability of boundaries. Mitchell has no "right" to invade Rand air space or to tell them how to manage their foreign policy or what they may or may not do in their own defense. (He also has no right to start a war with another country on his own account. The US Constitution gives Congress the power to declare war and makes the President the Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces. Mitchell is sworn to uphold the Constitution, but he didn't ask anyone's permission to start a war with a foreign power. This guy is a loose cannon to end all loose cannons!)


Of course Rand is going to take an attack on their most advanced weapon as an attack on them and their interests! For starters, without it they stand helpless before the Caledonians. And you know that as soon as that satellite is inoperable, the Caledonians are going to launch an attack to make sure that Rand never has that kind of power over them ever again. They simply can't take the chance.

Plus, throw in the fact that Rand has the plans for the satellite -- they can build another one. And Caledonia also has the plans. They're probably scrambling madly to build one themselves.

Daniel was right on this one -- the only effective solution is going to be a diplomatic one. Mitchell thinks he can stop these people from fighting by taking away their toys. But there is no way to stop people from fighting if they really want to fight. And trying to stand between two groups who really want to fight is the most dangerous possible situation to be in. That's why the UN doesn't send in peace-keepers unless BOTH SIDES request it.

To attack a sovereign nation and then complain that "they don't follow the rules of war" is an inconsistent position. If the Prometheus had been following the "rules of war" in the first place, it would not have been launching an unprovoked sneak attack on another country!

But you know, if you start a war with an unprovoked attack on another country and then get beat up, you can't really cry "Foul!" when you find out they're not playing by your rules -- after all, you're not playing by theirs. When people abandon the rules of civilized behavior, the way is open to every kind of brutality. The Prometheus took the first step down that slippery slope, and I guess they found that it was -- well, slippery. :S

Margaret
February 6th, 2006, 04:54 AM
A few things...

1. Did anyone else just feel extremely bothered that the Rand had such a weapon? I was so angry when it wasn't destroyed. No one should have a weapon like that. I sure hope the Ori haven't done the same for any other planets.

Even if they could easily rebuild another one, I think it needed to be destroyed. Heck post a ship there afterward to blow up any new ones before they get too far along reconstruction.

2. I know this will sound like restating the obvious but it smacks of an attitude completely opposite to the Ancients (think of the planet on 5x03 with Orlin!) Not only did they give these people advance tech, it wasn't for the defense of their followers but to let their followers conquer others on their own planet! It's strange to feel this agitated now considering I knew the show was setting up the Ori to be "evil" ascended beings, but to see them actually act that way.....AAAAARGH.

3. Ok I'm sure someone is going to kill me for this...but here's a question, for those of you who were upset with the death of Lionel Pendergast, how did you take Janet's death 2 years ago? Personally, I've watched "every adventure...from the beginning" :p and enjoyed Janet's presence on the SGC but her death just didn't move me much.

However, Pendergast's death just outraged me through and through but I've yet to figure out why. Possible reasons: it wasn't spoiled/discussed to death? (I knew the Prometheus was going down but I didn't expect anyone to go with it) Or maybe it was because a vindictive enemy who had the option of NOT destroying a defenseless ship and its crew, did it anyways? Any similar thoughts or feelings?

I totally, totally agree with you. The bloody-mindedness on display in this episode is just appalling.

First, the Priors come with their plague and threaten to wipe out the population unless they accept Origin. Then, like you say, they arm them for war against their neighbors.

Mitchell decides to start a war with a foreign country while the boss is away in Washington. No hint of letting anyone know what he's doing; no wonder Daniel was shocked speechless. Mitchell has got to be the biggest boob he's ever seen. Ranks right up there with Kinsey.


President Nedeau thinks that he's going to have eternal life, and for that chance he's willing to butcher any number of people, guilty or innocent.

Nedeau double-crosses everyone without a shred of conscience. He lures Daniel and Jared to Tegalus under false pretenses, violates diplomatic immunity, mercilessly destroys soldiers who are trying to surrender, makes and breaks international treaties with breath-taking non-chalance, and is prepared to engage in mass murder by wiping out the civilian population of Caledonia's capital city -- all because he thinks he would be a "fool" to turn down the chance to be ascended. How about the chance to be human?

The Caledonians tried to follow up a nuclear exchange with a land-based attack on Rand. That was part of what precipitated the current crisis, and their aggressive behavior made it that much more difficult to make peace.

In addition, it seems that they did not take Daniel's warning about the Priors seriously. It's natural that they wouldn't want to leave their homes, they probably figured, "Hey, let the Rand leave; they're the trouble-makers." They didn't really get that staying meant fighting the Priors, not just Rand.

Ay yi yi, what a mess!

A very rough day, indeed. :(

Tok'Ra Hostess
February 6th, 2006, 06:13 AM
Much as I loved the ep - and I did - I think Daniel was way off-base, and that Carter/Mitchell should have over-ruled both Daniel and the Rand leader.

Also, and not to fault Carter/Mitchell, and even though I know it's the writers who really decide, but I just couldn't see Jack going along with Daniel on this one. (Think Reese)

Neither side(Rand, Caledonia) in this fight were in a negotiating state of mind. Both sides had a deep, cultural hatred and mistrust of each other, while one side was further strongly influenced by their newly adopted murderous religious fervor.

SG-1 should have destroyed the satalite to get both side's attention, and then discussed terms with both sides. They would have sent the message that 1)Earthers are not to be trifled with, since they were able to take out the Prior weapon even with their with limited rescouces. 2)That the Ori are not omnipotent.

Once they'd established these hard truths, they'd either confiscate, bury or build an iris for the Stargate and establish a peace-keeping force on the planet long enough to insure the interests of the galaxy against further Prior interference. (This is waaay bigger than just one planet's security.)

The only real bright spot, as far as galactic security is concerned, is that the Rand/Caledonians turned against each other and destroyed themselves, thus removing the beachead the Ori had once again tried to make in the MW galaxy.

IMO.

Dannygirl
February 6th, 2006, 07:21 AM
Landry might've been away, but they were bound to have still needed his permission if they wanted to take the Prommie out and interfere with another world's politics. Him or or even Jack...or whoever is heading world security - that is Jack, right? I can't see them having the authority to do it alone.

Mitch did the right thing IMO in not destroying the weapon. Not only was Earth there interfering in interworld politics (something of which they themselves have rules against), they did it w/o permission of the world. Now, of course this doesn't justify what the mad fanatical President did in slaughtering the Prommie and her crew, but in regards to following the orders of the Caladonian ruler/President(?), Mitch was bound to it. She says don't fire, he shouldn't fire, esp since he was up there with her permission only. They brokered an international deal, he should follow it or else he'd be breaking the deal just like the President tried to do.

But, now that the two societies have destroyed each other...should we destroy the satellite or try and hook up an interface with it and use it?

DEM
February 6th, 2006, 07:23 AM
But, now that the two societies have destroyed each other...should we destroy the satellite or try and hook up an interface with it and use it?I vote destroy. It's bad news.

jeb
February 6th, 2006, 07:43 AM
Right, First post around here and probably last one too.

If people can't appreciate a real good sci-fi episode and just nit-pick at everything on screen like it seems people do on this fandom, they should really stop watching stargate and try <i>Home and Away</i> instead, or even find a boyfriend.

bitnine
February 6th, 2006, 07:48 AM
But, now that the two societies have destroyed each other...should we destroy the satellite or try and hook up an interface with it and use it?I say take it apart piece by piece on a remote world and learn what they can about it, hopefully including some sort of way to modify shields to be effective against the technology. They just don't know enough about the technology and failsafes that the Ori could have built in to have it be worth the liability of keeping it around. Particularly since the Prior activated the device with his staff - who knows what technological modifications he made in doing so that simply aren't part of even the latest blueprints given?

ShimmeringStar
February 6th, 2006, 08:11 AM
If people can't appreciate a real good sci-fi episode and just nit-pick at everything on screen like it seems people do on this fandom, they should really stop watching stargate and try <i>Home and Away</i> instead, or even find a boyfriend.First jeb, welcome to the Gateworld's Forum. Darren set it up as a place for SG fans to come, find out about SG, and to *discuss* the show. As long as we're not disrespecting each other or cursing a blue streak, then we're all allowed to post our thoughts on the show, no matter what they may be.

Since we're from all over the planet, male and female, young and old with a myriad of personalities and backgrounds, we're not all going to share the same perspective and this kind of forum and this kind of episode thread is where we come to "talk it out" and find out how others feel. I may not share the same opinions as some (or many) others, but personally I enjoy reading their opinions. Sometimes I learn something I didn't know before, or am reminded of something I may have missed when I watched it. And I'm always amazed at the diversity and talents of the members of this board.

Re: nitpickers - in every fandom people are going to critique what they see, SG fandom isn't any different than any other fandom of the past 40 years.:)


Right, First post around here and probably last one too.New ideas opinions and points of view are always welcome. Hope you do stick around and post more. :)

So jeb... since you called Ethon a "real good" episode, I'm intrigued - what were the parts that you liked about it? No really... I'm interested in knowing what hit home for you. Was it the SFX? A certain character? The ships (both spaceships and relationships)? Did you think anything could have gone down any differently?

:)

ShardsofGlass
February 6th, 2006, 09:14 AM
So what do you think will happen or maybe should happen to SG-1 now and in particular Mitchell after Ethon. I mean, you'd think there'd be an investigation at the very least. They lost the Prometheus and about 30 crewmembers, and didn't even destroy the satellite, which was their objective. Should there be a hearing for Mitchell, as leader (or Carter) or all of them?

GatetheWay
February 6th, 2006, 09:22 AM
They WERE there to assert dominance over them. A culture with a superior technology was going to TELL a less-advanced culture what it could and could not do. That's dominance.




Oh, really? And when the Caledonians launch a land-based attack and roll over the Rand with their superior numbers, what is Mitchell going to do then?




It's only murder because a bunch of diplomats got together and decided it was murder. And for once, the soldiers decided that the diplomats were right.

Some "nuke 'em'-minded people like to mock Daniel's diplomatic attempts as pointless and futile, but it's diplomacy that made the rules of war what you understand them to be, instead of the "Kill everyone, let God sort them out" attitude of bygone eras.

But along with things like the Geneva Convention, other "rules of war" were established, like principles of national sovreignity and the inviolability of boundaries. Mitchell has no "right" to invade Rand air space or to tell them how to manage their foreign policy or what they may or may not do in their own defense. (He also has no right to start a war with another country on his own account. The US Constitution gives Congress the power to declare war and makes the President the Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces. Mitchell is sworn to uphold the Constitution, but he didn't ask anyone's permission to start a war with a foreign power. This guy is a loose cannon to end all loose cannons!)


Of course Rand is going to take an attack on their most advanced weapon as an attack on them and their interests! For starters, without it they stand helpless before the Caledonians. And you know that as soon as that satellite is inoperable, the Caledonians are going to launch an attack to make sure that Rand never has that kind of power over them ever again. They simply can't take the chance.

Plus, throw in the fact that Rand has the plans for the satellite -- they can build another one. And Caledonia also has the plans. They're probably scrambling madly to build one themselves.

Daniel was right on this one -- the only effective solution is going to be a diplomatic one. Mitchell thinks he can stop these people from fighting by taking away their toys. But there is no way to stop people from fighting if they really want to fight. And trying to stand between two groups who really want to fight is the most dangerous possible situation to be in. That's why the UN doesn't send in peace-keepers unless BOTH SIDES request it.

To attack a sovereign nation and then complain that "they don't follow the rules of war" is an inconsistent position. If the Prometheus had been following the "rules of war" in the first place, it would not have been launching an unprovoked sneak attack on another country!

But you know, if you start a war with an unprovoked attack on another country and then get beat up, you can't really cry "Foul!" when you find out they're not playing by your rules -- after all, you're not playing by theirs. When people abandon the rules of civilized behavior, the way is open to every kind of brutality. The Prometheus took the first step down that slippery slope, and I guess they found that it was -- well, slippery. :S

When the Caledonians launched their missile attack they were using their own tech and were not being influenced by anyone, unless you count SG-1 coming through the gate in the first place. But when the Ori got involved they completely changed everything. They helped Rand create something that was thousands of years ahead of them, something they didn't fully understand. With the missile attacks, at least Rand survived and they may have eventually been forced to come to the negotiation table but with this weapon ALL the Caledonians could have been annihilated with in a short amount of time, not just being a slaughter but genocide.

Something like this could never have happened if the Ori had not been involved and since the SGC felt guilty about being the ones who released them on the galaxy and also causing the war in Rand in the first place, they rightfully felt they have a responsibility to help these people and prevent the Ori from gaining new worshippers. True they could have built another one but at least the Caledonians would have time to respond.

Daniel was right to try a diplomatic way at first but even when he told them how the Ori really were Rand would not listen. How were they going to negotiate with some one who ignores you?

I agree with you that Rand had ever right to shoot Prommie in the first place but IMO killing a defenseless person (and in this case, dozens) when they just surrendered to you is just being universally nasty then being diplomatically correct. The look the general gave the president when he ordered the Prommie to be shot one final time was indication that this was bad form even on that planet.

This is no Pearl Harbor parallel at all.

talyn2k1
February 6th, 2006, 09:45 AM
While they had no idea that the satellite had shields, I think the destruction of the Prometheus can be attributed to 3 key factors:
1. Mitchell hesitated in giving the firing order when they dropped out of hyperspace, thus allowing the satellite to raise its shields.
2. The weapon was obviously alot more powerful than they were expecting.
3. When the missiles failed to destroy the satellite, they didn't retreat back into hyperspace as they had planned before they even left the SGC.

While I don't think any individual was directly responsible for the loss of Prometheus, questions must be asked of the survivors regarding points 1 and 3.
Before anyone says, I`m not one of those people who blames everything on the new boy (Mitchell). I just think that as the commander of the mission he has some questions to answer.
But as he is a main character, I don't think it likely that anything will happen, even though an episode resolving this would be very good.

Jonzey
February 6th, 2006, 09:50 AM
Mitchell decides to start a war with a foreign country while the boss is away in Washington. No hint of letting anyone know what he's doing; no wonder Daniel was shocked speechless. Mitchell has got to be the biggest boob he's ever seen. Ranks right up there with Kinsey.

Hang on. Daniel was on the planet for 3 days before Prometheus arrived. And I find it hard to believe that in that time they'd take the ship without permission. So Mitchell is not at fault.

Looks to me like another ''try to find another reason to ***** about Mitchell'' point. There's been so many of them.

RobJones
February 6th, 2006, 10:39 AM
in theory, as much as i like the man, pendergast was in command, doesnt it fall with him? not saying he was a bad commander, just pointing out that he was the commander

Mattathias2.0
February 6th, 2006, 11:10 AM
1. Did anyone else just feel extremely bothered that the Rand had such a weapon? I was so angry when it wasn't destroyed. No one should have a weapon like that. I sure hope the Ori haven't done the same for any other planets.

Even if they could easily rebuild another one, I think it needed to be destroyed. Heck post a ship there afterward to blow up any new ones before they get too far along reconstruction.

I was extremely bothered by it. I don't mean the Rand Protectrate in general, I mean that anyone, the Caledonian Federation included, on that planet posses such a weapon given that they are both dangerous to eachother, let alone others!


2. I know this will sound like restating the obvious but it smacks of an attitude completely opposite to the Ancients (think of the planet on 5x03 with Orlin!) Not only did they give these people advance tech, it wasn't for the defense of their followers but to let their followers conquer others on their own planet! It's strange to feel this agitated now considering I knew the show was setting up the Ori to be "evil" ascended beings, but to see them actually act that way.....AAAAARGH.

I got so frustrated with that...


3. Ok I'm sure someone is going to kill me for this...but here's a question, for those of you who were upset with the death of Lionel Pendergast, how did you take Janet's death 2 years ago? Personally, I've watched "every adventure...from the beginning" :p and enjoyed Janet's presence on the SGC but her death just didn't move me much.

However, Pendergast's death just outraged me through and through but I've yet to figure out why. Possible reasons: it wasn't spoiled/discussed to death? (I knew the Prometheus was going down but I didn't expect anyone to go with it) Or maybe it was because a vindictive enemy who had the option of NOT destroying a defenseless ship and its crew, did it anyways? Any similar thoughts or feelings?

I was very moved by Janet's death because of the way it happened... she died in the line of duty saving an airman during an ambush. I cried.

I hadn't expected anyone to go down with the Prommie either... I was shocked.

But moreover, I was pissed at the Rand for chosing to destroy the Prommie when it was completely defenseless against it...

I think Pendergast's death was NOT meaningless because he died trying to save members of the crew of the Prometheus from a 'vindictive' threat. He died like Janet did, in a way.

Mattathias

AnotherEvilAlien
February 6th, 2006, 12:02 PM
I vote destroy. It's bad news.


Agreed. You never know with these Ori. They are sneaky sum*****es, and could have self-detonation systems in case any outside source comes in contact with them.

It's simply just not a good idea, even with the potential benefits of having a few.

talyn2k1
February 6th, 2006, 12:20 PM
in theory, as much as i like the man, pendergast was in command, doesnt it fall with him? not saying he was a bad commander, just pointing out that he was the commander

He may have been the commander of Prometheus but Mitchell was the mission commander so the decision to fire ultimately rested with him. Also, as soon as the missiles hit the shield, he should've given the order to jump back to hyperspace as had been agreed prior to leaving Earth.
If there any military officionados out there who can confirm/discredit this statement, feel free.

Edited to add that Pendergast also should've suggested leaving after the failed first strike.

RobJones
February 6th, 2006, 12:38 PM
He may have been the commander of Prometheus but Mitchell was the mission commander so the decision to fire ultimately rested with him. Also, as soon as the missiles hit the shield, he should've given the order to jump back to hyperspace as had been agreed prior to leaving Earth.
If there any military officionados out there who can confirm/discredit this statement, feel free.

Edited to add that Pendergast also should've suggested leaving after the failed first strike.

good point. tbh i just dont wana see mitchell blamed lol. its a damn shame though, seeing as how they were friends having served togather on board

PG15
February 6th, 2006, 01:32 PM
Pearl Harbor? Prommie wasn't there to kill anyone one or insert their dominance over them. They were trying to prevent a an inevitable slauter that Jarod's people were going to comit. Yes, Prommie was on a stealth mission to blow up the satilite but that gives that president NO excuse to reject Prommies surrender when they were completely defensless. That's like if soldiers over run enemies line and the enemy soldiers put their hands up in surrender but the soldiers just cut them down with machine fire anyway. That is murder in the rules of war.

I agree that the PH bit was a little over the top. But one way or another, Prometheus started this.

After that, it was just a matter of the president being a normal human being, or an Ori-sympathizer.

Note how the president convinced the others to destroy the Prommie by quoting the book of Origin. The whole point of this is not just about the Ori weapon, but also the Ori follower's mentalities.

According to our rules, the president committed murder. According to the Ori's this was justice.

Mesenet
February 6th, 2006, 04:25 PM
This ep was more like the old Stargate IMO

Sad that it's rating came in low for the earlier time slot. However, the eps for the past couple of weeks prior to this one were eh.

Cpt. Obvious
February 6th, 2006, 05:08 PM
OMG they blew up the Prometheus! honestly i was in complete shock when it happened. i still can't believe it. ironically i have been watching episodes about the Prometheus all week (Prometheus, Unnatural Selection, Prometheus Unbound) and then this happened! have i mentioned that i can't believe it and i couldn't believe that they killed off Pendergast. definitely didn't see that one coming. yeah, i joined just so i could say i can't believe it. it was a good ep i thought. question though...did um, Commander Pernaux die? i don't think he did but i wasn't sure. oh and i love Jarrod Kane!

KillerMercury
February 6th, 2006, 06:19 PM
Sad that it's rating came in low for the earlier time slot. However, the eps for the past couple of weeks prior to this one were eh.

I blame it on America's obsession with celebrities and humiliation.

ckwongau
February 6th, 2006, 06:36 PM
Spoiler discussion for "Ethon"
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The loss of Prometheus and some of her crew is tragic and meaningless ,But it would be more meaningless if SGC doesn't learn any lesson (moral or other etc) from "Ethon".

I know SG1 is not star Trek, but one thing about Star Trek is that we always learn a moral lessson at the end of the episode.

Arrogance: It was arrogant for Earth to underestimate the technologies of Rand Protectorate or any primative world.

Strategies:
The Prometheus could have send a Goa'uld cloaked cargo ship (or the Ak'esh they have)or F-302 to destory the weapon .And minitor from a distance.Sam's asscessment was correct base on the limited information she had,SGC should find someway to test the weapon's unknow capabilities before bring in the big Gun.

Descision making:
The General was away, and Mitchell and the other make the decision in his office after a few minute of discussion,
to use the X-303 to blow up the Rand/ori weapon. An act of war against a foreign planet or pre-emptive strike should be make by the civilian government not the military.I am sure President sign off on that mission ,but he was following the General 's recommandation ,after the General was convinced by Mitchell.
After the loss of a milti billions spaceship ,SGC and SG1 may loss some of decision making influence.


Internal conflict of other planet:
In Star Trek, It is breaking prime directive for interference of other planet's internal matter .But in Stargate, i don't think they learn this lesson this time.
The war with the prior is more important for them at least for now.
If SGC didn't interfere ,would anything change?
Now everybody is dead on the planet ,how much worse could have been without SG1's interference.
Maybe , Rand would have won the War, and at least one side of the planet survive.Or may be many Caledonian would have convert ,if Dr Jackson didn't tell them the truth about the Ori.

Dannygirl
February 6th, 2006, 06:44 PM
First off, ShimmeringStar, well said. :)




OMG they blew up the Prometheus! honestly i was in complete shock when it happened. i still can't believe it. ironically i have been watching episodes about the Prometheus all week (Prometheus, Unnatural Selection, Prometheus Unbound) and then this happened! have i mentioned that i can't believe it and i couldn't believe that they killed off Pendergast. definitely didn't see that one coming. yeah, i joined just so i could say i can't believe it. it was a good ep i thought. question though...did um, Commander Pernaux die? i don't think he did but i wasn't sure. oh and i love Jarrod Kane!

Is it that you were watching DVD's or was this on TV? Oh, how hillarious it would be if Scifi managed to rig it this way for the sake of just watching it explode at the end of the week. If you were just watching it on DVD, then that was one HECK of a coincidence!!!:D

the fifth man
February 6th, 2006, 07:11 PM
I'm sure they did learn a lesson. Shoot first, ask questions later.

the fifth man
February 6th, 2006, 07:23 PM
I'm sure there will be some accountability, but I don't think Mitchell is solely to blame. No one anticipated that satellite being as powerful as it turned out to be. His hesitation had to do with a member of his team being held captive on the planet below.

ellenrose
February 6th, 2006, 07:32 PM
So what do you think will happen or maybe should happen to SG-1 now and in particular Mitchell after Ethon. I mean, you'd think there'd be an investigation at the very least. They lost the Prometheus and about 30 crewmembers, and didn't even destroy the satellite, which was their objective. Should there be a hearing for Mitchell, as leader (or Carter) or all of them?

Excellent question - I think there would be some sort of hearing or what ever happens in these top secret failed mission situations. The team made so many mistakes when you think about it - but I am not sure it would have made a difference in the end for the people in that world. On the other hand they could have saved the Prometheus and her lost crew if they had thought to get out of there sooner.

Perhaps all was unavoidable - very difficult situation with dubious intel and a political sitution made worse by the interference of the Ori.

I liked this ep for it's many comments about choices and politics and losing friends in battle.

the fifth man
February 6th, 2006, 07:40 PM
I liked this ep for it's many comments about choices and politics and losing friends in battle.

Yep, it was a good one. Definitely a bad day for SG-1 and the SGC. Not only did they lose a great ship and some of its crew, they lost yet another world because of the Ori.

markaudette
February 6th, 2006, 07:40 PM
I don't think anything should be done.

Other than replace the Prometheus.

"Ethon" was one of the very best episodes I think I have ever watched. It goes to show how even the best laid plans can sometimes go to waste. Even if the cards are stacked in your favor. "Ethon" was about how you fail, no matter how well trained, well planned and well armed you are. The no-win scenario.

"Ethon" was and always will be a grand testament about being human.

You can't be on your best judgement all the time. No matter how dire the situation is, you can't always make the right decision 100% of the time. EVERY time. Sometimes making the first strike isn't the wisest chioce. Sometimes you can't read the mind of the enemy. Sometimes pre-emptive strikes fail. And there is always someone smarter, more powerful, better, more agile and more advanced that you.

Everyone lost in "Ethon." The Prometheus needs to be rebuilt and everyone needs to go on with their lives. Everyone lost. That's real life.

ckwongau
February 6th, 2006, 07:45 PM
SGC assume the Rand and Caledonian destory each other.They sent the Daedulas to confirm it.

But the Caledonian didn't have anything that could destory the orbital statille.And if the everybody or most people on the planet is dead, then the Ori statille should be intact with nobody controling it.

They didn't destory because the Rand can built anotherone less than a yr.
But the peace talk still fail.
Using 1940 or 50's tech ,the Rand bullt something that can destory the X-303.
Even 303 equiped with Goa'uld, Earth,and Asgard tech.
And Earth spend the last decade trying to built an Enery weapon.The Rand did it in 5 month.


Why didn't Daedulas take it back for study?
If it was too big then take it apart before loading it in the cargo bay.

I would take it to alpha site for studies, in case it was bubby trap

The powersource must be special, because the Rand commander siad that it was the Prior who bing it to life.

Auralis
February 6th, 2006, 07:48 PM
Short answer, no.
Longer answer, only if the plot absolutly requiers it, otherwise, again no.

Auralis
February 6th, 2006, 08:01 PM
Yes, the lost of the prmmi had nothing to do with the satelite been powerfull.
The total incompetenz of everyone is the fault.
They should have fired directly at the satellite, they should have jumped back to hyper. They did not even moved after the missiles went splat.
They should have fired directly after coming out of hyperspace, then after the missles went splat, they should have imediatly start moving tangential away from the staetlite, and back to hyper, while keeping firing with missle, set the detonate prior to impact.
Maybe the prommy would have went down to, but then because the satellite is ueber, not because of incompetenz.

Yes there should be an formal inquiere about the mission, and normaly those people would not set foot again in anything responsible again on a ship.

LORD MONK
February 6th, 2006, 08:22 PM
If we need to destroy the weapon then we will fly in cloaked ships and do that the next time because we did learn something. If we would have just destroyed it right when we jumped out of hyperspace the thing would have been blown up.
Keep in mind they did have a prisoner from Earth that was going there to inform them about the Ori and not to blow up the other people. Not an hostile act.

LORD MONK
February 6th, 2006, 08:25 PM
Because the people with the weapon are still alive. The other people didn't want to leave and so they were destroyed along with the gate they got to leave through. My guess is that they re going to retreive the gate and it is not the last we have heard from them.

Count
February 6th, 2006, 09:35 PM
Caledonia launched a missle strike on Rand and Rand retaliated, Daneil said both sides were gone, not just the Caledonians.

SGTLopez
February 6th, 2006, 10:39 PM
I think there are still people on the satalite...the problem for them comes in "who's going to give them a ride back to the planet?" :D I think they are pretty much hosed.

SGTLopez
February 6th, 2006, 10:42 PM
My moral of the story would be, "THAT'S IT! No more helping people next time!"

SGTLopez
February 6th, 2006, 10:46 PM
Yes, the lost of the prmmi had nothing to do with the satelite been powerfull.
The total incompetenz of everyone is the fault.
They should have fired directly at the satellite, they should have jumped back to hyper. They did not even moved after the missiles went splat.
They should have fired directly after coming out of hyperspace, then after the missles went splat, they should have imediatly start moving tangential away from the staetlite, and back to hyper, while keeping firing with missle, set the detonate prior to impact.
Maybe the prommy would have went down to, but then because the satellite is ueber, not because of incompetenz.

Yes there should be an formal inquiere about the mission, and normaly those people would not set foot again in anything responsible again on a ship.
Agreed.

The Promie could've possibly been saved if they weren't so arragant in thinking that their All mighty Asgard shields would protect them from a weapon of unknown power.

I would've fired, and seen that my attacks were useless, retreated immediately.

Even if you can withstand any attack the enemy could throw at you, if you can't hurt them in return, what good is it to stay? A little lesson learned by the Ancients, taught by the Wraith.

The Engineer
February 7th, 2006, 12:35 AM
But I believe Stargate SG-1 does have something like a Prime Directive (not a written one): Our reality counts.:hammond:
This could easily be extended to our problem count and intervention is the mother of prevention.

Mefusta
February 7th, 2006, 12:59 AM
While I would like to see some political fallout from the loss of the Prometheus, remember that we're at war. The Ori hit us hard via the plague, so offensive action against a future Ori position was somewhat warrented. Not to mention the fact that the entire situation stemmed from the SGC's initial meddling, which meant that they were somewhat inclined to assist in the resolution of the situation [at least, from a moral standpoint].

Sure, not enough was known about the Satellite weapon, but what was known indicated that the Satellite was ill-prepared for their attack, and it was assumed that near top-of-the-line Asguard shielding and the Prometheus' Trinium armour would protect it [a perfectly logical assumption]. On the basis of that information, and the time constraints for taking out the satellite weapon, I believe the choice to attack was indeed the right one. The fact that the Satellite posessed enough power to cut right through their Asguard Shields and the Prometheus itself came right out of left-field, and could not have been forseen.

The loss of the Prom was terrible, but the SGC was hardly at fault both in acting to save the people of that planet, and investigating the Ori Satellite Weapon. The only thing the SGC should have learned from this incident, is that above all; you do not f--k with the Ori. :p

Mefusta
February 7th, 2006, 01:07 AM
Did anyone else notice the nice way it weaved into a microcosm for the war towards the end, with SG1 backing the Caledonian Federation and the Ori backing the Rand Protectrate. Very war-by-proxy, Vietnam-style. Definitely one of the better eps of the season.

Nathan
February 7th, 2006, 02:07 AM
3. Ok I'm sure someone is going to kill me for this...but here's a question, for those of you who were upset with the death of Lionel Pendergast, how did you take Janet's death 2 years ago? Personally, I've watched "every adventure...from the beginning" :p and enjoyed Janet's presence on the SGC but her death just didn't move me much.
I agree. Janet's death did nothing for me. But Pentergast (spelling?) .. ouch

Great episode. incredibly apt for society today too. Well if you take out the whole space flight and other planets thing. In terms of religion being used to justify murder etc though. Nicely done.

My only question though. Why was the episode called Ethon?

Oh actually never mind. Ethon was the bird that ate Prometheus' liver for all eternity right?

belistner
February 7th, 2006, 05:26 AM
this is my first post here i've been reading bits and pieces here for a while and i'd like to say i think they learned a lot in this ep .

for a start sam got her hands on 2 sets of schematics for the ori sattalite weapon so building our own should be no problem.
using these weapons and sheilds(if better than the ones we've got) on future ships/ cruisers should be no problem either .;)

Daniel's_twin
February 7th, 2006, 07:54 AM
"And so Prometheus was punished by the gods for bringing Fire to the mortals, and was chained to the mountainside and was visited every day by the Eagle Ethon, sent by Hera, who gnawed at his liver every day. And every day his body regenerated itself so that he lived in unending torture..." :cool:

You're right. I think Jack was right in not wanting to name the ship after a Greek tragedy. :cool:

talyn2k1
February 7th, 2006, 07:57 AM
While the strength of the weapon and the unexpected presence of shields cannot be blamed on anyone, I think that Cam/Sam/Pendergast's hesitation to fire the second they couldn't beam Daniel up and also to retreat when the first attack was unsuccessful did play a big part in the destruction of the Prometheus and the loss of 74 USAF crewmembers.
While neither of them can be held totally responsible, I would like to see some sort of fallout from this. An investigation of some sort where the criticisers of the SGC would try their best to blame the mission failure on Mitchell or Carter in order to gain greater control of the program only to be unsuccessful in the end.
Wouldn't it be fitting if the Ori Satellite plans and F-302 scans were just what we needed to finish off our own weapon, thus giving the loss of the Prometheus atleast some sort of meaning.
Seems just like the sort of thing TPTB would pull out of their sleeves.

We shall see...

V-MAN
February 7th, 2006, 08:09 AM
I think there are still people on the satalite...the problem for them comes in "who's going to give them a ride back to the planet?" :D I think they are pretty much hosed.

There was nothing to suggest that the satellite was manned.

Pharaoh Atem
February 7th, 2006, 08:09 AM
I'm sure they did learn a lesson. Shoot first, ask questions later.
that was always jacks way of doing things he even mentions it in proving ground season 3

Pharaoh Atem
February 7th, 2006, 08:13 AM
just because there didn't say there took the satellite weapon doesn't mean that there didn't

it could be sitting at area 51

RobJones
February 7th, 2006, 10:28 AM
id like to think they did learn a lesson, but in fairness, give it a few more seasons and we'll probably lose another ship in another silly way. but id like to think they did

Bragi
February 7th, 2006, 11:39 AM
Daedalus might not be able to tow it back. The satellite looked fairly large (using the F-302's to determine scale) and it might just be too big for us to tow.

And NightWing makes a good point, just because it wasn't shown in the episode, or mentioned, doesn't mean it didn't/won't happen.

michelleb
February 7th, 2006, 11:53 AM
It's good to see the Icon planet again, I liked that, and its good to see Jarrod, although it's sad what's happened to Leda, and to the planet.

Nice to see Cam quoting Jack.

Must have seen his wouldn't turn out as planned.

All this leading to...

The Prometheus destroyed!!!

COLONEL PRENDERGAST DEAD!!!!!!!

That's the shock of the season so far....

The Sam/Cam reunion was definitly a friendship only hug..and the Teal'c/Sam was reunion was very touching..that's the most emotion I've seen Teal'c show.

"Do you ever give up?"

'Not until I'm dead..and not even then..' Nice quote from Daniel.

Another trademark daring Sam plan!!!!

Should have guessed that deal was false

And Jarrod takes charge!!! Knew that man had more in him.

Oh, that was sad about Colonel Prendergast. I really really liked him. He was cool. (Guess there won't be an 'Adventures of Prometheus now).

Fantastic ending. It's interesting to see SG1 fail in a way.

And I much prefer the way Cam was in this one..thoughtful, intelligent, introspective. I like the friendship he's developing with Daniel, and I love i when he and Danny joke around, but generally, I prefer him to be the way he was in this.

But..oh...poor Prometheus!

immhotep
February 7th, 2006, 11:59 AM
they might have the plans at the very least. from the caladonians.

David1984
February 7th, 2006, 12:28 PM
I'm pretty sure that there are still some Rand people left. During "Ethon" the Caledonian Minister said that the bunker where the satellite is controlled from was too deep for their missiles to reach.

Bragi
February 7th, 2006, 01:18 PM
Well, everyone should definately gain varying degrees of humility.

They won't, of course. Daniel will still be overly-trusting and optomistic and everyone (including Sam herself) will continue to think that Sam is infallable. As much as Daniel's optimism is a character trait, it's also his biggest flaw and has gotten him in the most trouble. Ditto with Sam's intelligence.

And I'm fine with pointing these out as flaws and being critical of them, because that's what makes these characters believable people that could exist in the real world. If everyone on this show were perfect, if Daniel's trusting nature never got him in trouble, if Sam was always right... the show would be boring.

Ancient 1
February 7th, 2006, 01:49 PM
I'm sure they did learn a lesson. Shoot first, ask questions later.
I agree with this one. Yes, in another year another satellite weapon could have been built, but when you consider how many times earth has come so close to being wiped out, or how many times the self destruct device has been activated and deactivated with seconds to spare, a year is a long time to ponder any actions that were or were not taken. The satellite should have been taken out while it was still vulnerable. It would have most likely brought both sides back to the bargaining table with compromises on both sides that were at least realistic. Of course that last part is sheer speculation...

KRiZ
February 7th, 2006, 02:12 PM
Too deep for caledonians missiles to reach maybe, how bout using the daedalus to beam a bomb into the bunker? or slightly less murderous, a sedative gas? i really dont get why the prommie didnt do this the instant they got there...

beale947
February 7th, 2006, 03:30 PM
Ok, i've had enought of pathetic whiney b***ards who whine on and on about OMG, blowing up promethius was a bad move. or WHy didn't they let it live. the fact is THE PROMETHEUS IS GONE NOW, AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO SO GET OVER IT. You don't like it fine but you go and rant at tptb about it, coz i couldn't care less about you thinking it shouldn't have been blown up. What about that wraith ship in the seige part one, i bet you were all like You can't blow up that wraith hive ship, its a bad idea. etc. I know im not the only person here who thinks this, but its gone, and it was nessicary for development of the show, and the fact is, they will get the oddesy in 2 episodes, so we ouldn't be seeing the prometheus anyway because the oddessy will take over the role of main ship.

You don't like it tough sh*t, cry all you want, whine all you want, because its gone and thats it. There is nothing you can do. Infact go and make a thread called Ethon, screw ups etc.. Its gone and thats that. There is nothing you can do.

freyr's mother
February 7th, 2006, 03:37 PM
Yes, the lost of the prmmi had nothing to do with the satelite been powerfull.
The total incompetenz of everyone is the fault.
They should have fired directly at the satellite, they should have jumped back to hyper. They did not even moved after the missiles went splat.
They should have fired directly after coming out of hyperspace, then after the missles went splat, they should have imediatly start moving tangential away from the staetlite, and back to hyper, while keeping firing with missle, set the detonate prior to impact.
Maybe the prommy would have went down to, but then because the satellite is ueber, not because of incompetenz.

Yes there should be an formal inquiere about the mission, and normaly those people would not set foot again in anything responsible again on a ship.

We can't just run and hide every time one of our ships goes up against something with shields.

lethalfang
February 7th, 2006, 09:06 PM
So we now have the blueprints of that satellite weapon from the Caledonians, right?
Build 'em!

Hulabaloo
February 7th, 2006, 10:42 PM
Ohh, im gonna miss Promie!

Chaka's_Mum
February 7th, 2006, 10:45 PM
But do we have complete plans? As far as I recall, Sam didn't have any idea of how the satellite was powered, not even with the Caledonian copies. Of course, being the total brainbox she is, it would only be a matter of time before she either figured it out or jerry-rigged another solution. But that then throws up all sorts of difficult questions about whether it would be a good idea in the long run.

Can we be certain that the Ori would give the Rand Protectorate something that they themselves aren't protected from? What's to say that the shields on any ships they bring along aren't strong enough to repel the beam? All we could be doing is diverting resources into something that wouldn't help us if the Ori came knocking, and could instead be used quite easily against other countries on Earth. Just imagine what this world would be like if we had a Kinsey-type president in the White House with his finger on The Button of an Ori-designed Satellite. I know I'd be thumbing a lift on the nearest available scoutship. God help anyone who rubbed him up the wrong way.

Alas, I think they really should have busted the thing to smithereens. It would have put the Rand Protectorate back on a level playing field again, and perhaps would have gone some way towards justifying the loss of the Prommie, and those who were lost with her. Danny's willingness to trust in the good of others is perhaps one of his greatest qualities, but sometimes you just wish he was a wee bit more cynical.

Overall, I enjoyed 'Ethon', it was another ep that showed that SG-1 are not invincible, and that there are problems even they can't solve. Good stuff.

Stricken
February 8th, 2006, 02:25 AM
Ethon was the follow up to season 8’s Icon, which in over a year the Rand and the Caledonians have taken each other to the brink of collapse. But when you think that this would be a one off episode where we go back in out continued efforts to help them rebuild, we then find out that they haven’t been in contact with Earth for several months and then the Priors have been visiting.

In an episode that would be sad we had the one comedy moment with SG-1 talking in Landry’s office, but none of them wanted to sit in the “Big Chair”. And you could tell by Cam’s face that he wasn’t sure.

The Rand protectorate drew us in by asking us to come, and it ended with Daniel in jail for being in league with the Caledonians. They tell us that the Ori are Gods, its not as if we haven’t heard that line before. Prometheus arrives to destroy the satellite, they hesitate and which we find out later was there downfall. They open fire with a couple of missiles; the satellite has shields, something of which would have come across the mind of Carter and the team. Any number of updates may have been made since the blueprints that they had seen as they were months old.

The satellite opens fire on Prometheus, and it goes straight through the Asgard shields and through the front of the ship. The destruction that one shot caused was immense, and the Prommy was left a sitting duck, even with the F-302’s there was no stopping the satellite, the shields were too strong. It hits again, but only after the Rand President orders it to, even though one of the Commanders had suggested otherwise, the President turns to Origin. The Prometheus then takes a lethal hit, and breaks in to two pieces, and the first thought to enter my mind was “What had happened to Carter?” we had last seen her trying to power Prometheus before it was destroyed. Colonel Pendergast will be remembered for his noble sacrifice, and Cam was right his family had the right to know that he died protecting his ship.

With the Prometheus destroyed, the thoughts that went through my mind are non PG and therefore can’t be mentioned here on GateWorld. We turn to the Caledonians to help us, where we find that SG-1 had survived including Carter and it looking more and more likely that it will end up in all out war between them…Carter comes up with a plan, an EMP missile stopping the Rand’s control over the satellite. Just when you think that it will end up in an all out war, Daniel comes through with the peaceful solution, which is good on paper but the Rand President turns and tries to destroy all hopes of peace, but he gets shot…

We hope that peace will final come…but no…we learn that they ended up in full scale war, because the Caledonians will unwilling to leave through the Stargate, and the Deadalus stopped by and we have to believe that we won’t be seeing anyone from this planet in a long time if at all…

Ethon Recieves a S.G.C rating of 7 out of 9 Chevrons!
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With the destruction of the Prometheus, it shows that we can’t always win SG-1 can’t go round the Galaxy save the day and be back in time for the next intergalactic problem. Ethon shows us that our battle against the Ori and the Priors is going to much tougher than the battle against the Goa’uld, it will take them to the edge and back.

Merlin1701
February 8th, 2006, 04:35 AM
We dont have the complete plans...

If i was in charge i would send every ship and bombbard that planet for destroying the prometheus, totally nuke it! with no contral station just beam the satallite onto the ship and head home.

It was a great episode!

jckfan55
February 8th, 2006, 06:44 AM
On the plus side with the loss of Prometheus, maybe we'll use that big old circle--I think it's called the "Stargate" --more. ;)

Swiss
February 8th, 2006, 07:11 AM
On the plus side with the loss of Prometheus, maybe we'll use that big old circle--I think it's called the "Stargate" --more. ;)

The stargate? Never heard of it! What should they probably do with that?:rolleyes:

I liked this ep because it was about the Team SG-1. I heard the rumour that the show is called after this team. But I could be wrong! ;)

Elite Anubis Guard
February 8th, 2006, 09:06 AM
Well I really enjoyed this episode. Was nice seeing Danny get in trouble. And OMG, the Prommy. I loved the SFX and space sequences. We shall miss her. Cam got some nice emotional moments. Good episode.

Ed
February 8th, 2006, 10:12 AM
they destroyed promethous because of studio space deadlus orion odecy use the same set promie has her own thats why she had to down sad realy the death was slow when they were diabled the rand fired again

ps what happened to the escape pods from grace and i thought they had 8 302s not 5

bcfc
February 8th, 2006, 02:00 PM
100 POST


I really enjoyed this episode for its great effects for the destruction of Prommie and its rollercoster storyline. The end sequence with Mitchell and Daniel was a great summing up of the days events, although a negative would be not explaining how Carter escaped


:jack: :daniel: :tealc: :sam: :cameron:

JUNIOR
February 8th, 2006, 02:06 PM
So we now have the blueprints of that satellite weapon from the Caledonians, right?
Build 'em!


Even if they did get the enough of the blueprints to reverse engineer the weapon the international committee might not approve; and I think Daniel might have some thing to say about it (Daniel having gone through that whole weapons thing in absolute power). Although it would be cool if they could adapt those blueprints to upgrade the weapons on their Daedalus class ships it would be a big help to them.

Chaka's_Mum
February 8th, 2006, 10:50 PM
and I think Daniel might have some thing to say about it (Daniel having gone through that whole weapons thing in absolute power).

Too true. If nothing else, the whole mess that followed their return to Earth would throw that experience back into sharp relief.

Having said that, though, with that knowledge of what superior firepower did to his principles and where that led, what on earth was Danny playing at in insisting the Rand Protectorate be allowed to retain possession of the satellite? Surely he must have considered there to be at least a possibility that they would fire the thing if things didn't go their way? Did he really believe that the ordinary Caledonian in the street would happily comply with forcible exile? Yes it would end the civil war at a stroke, but it would also leave matters in a 'victor' and 'vanquished' situation, which would in itself be a major sparking point. Faced with the enforced displacement of their entire population, not to mention the whole shadow of 'defeat' it was almost inevitable that the Caledonians would jam their heels in after the Earth-folk left. Besides, chances are the Rand government would start using the Satellite on any area of their own country were the populace were perceived to be less 'faithful' followers of Origin once they no longer had any Caledonians to point it at.

I appreciate that Danny was under enormous pressure to come up with some sort of solution that wouldn't bring about an immediate bloodbath and this was probably the best he could come up with in the time he had. But the idea of leaving the Caledonians so hugely outgunned and facing permanent exile (not to mention patronising Rand sentiments about 'nobility in defeat' - I don't believe for a moment that they wouldn't have some of that thrown at them) seems so bizarre a solution that I wonder what made him propose it.

Either way, not destroying that satellite while they had the opportunity was a bit of a major cock-up, I reckon. But then, they do say that hindsight is 20/20, don't they? ;)

Izzy
February 9th, 2006, 02:34 AM
The trouble with being British and a Stargate SG-1 fan and a GW poster is that by the time I've seen a new episode the discussion thread is 17 pages long and nearly everything has already been said. Nevertheless, here are my thoughts on Ethon:

- The destruction of the Prometheus and Pendergast's death were very sad to see but both were well handled and added to the story. In the interests of good drama, it is necessary to show 'our side' taking losses in the fight against the Ori (and their worshippers) and for it to hit home it has to be someone we care a little about. Pendergast fit the bill for me; I'm glad he got the hero's exit on-screen that he deserved.

- The delay in firing on the Satellite when the Prometheus first popped out of hyperdrive gave the weapon time to power up and led to the ship's destruction. There has been quite a bit of discussion about this. The delay was due to concern about Daniel but although Mitchell did take the final decision, he and Sam seemed to be trying to reach a consensus on what to do (NOT what the mission leader is meant to do but these were uncommon circumstances). Of course he didn't know the weapon was shielded, so he thought he had time... It would be interesting to see where an inquiry would place the blame for the destruction of the Prometheus but I doubt the PTB will go that route, if for no other reason that it would be quite boring telly...

- Sitting in Landry's chair. I saw Sam and Cam declining the General's chair, not as a bow to their co-command, but as a mark of respect to Landry. Even when he is away they won't sit in his chair. I was quite surprised when others read something deeper into it.

Talking of reading something deeper into things...

- Teal'c taking a backseat in Mitchell's plane and then not giving the hug to Sam. I'm not sure why either of these things should be a problem for people. Ethon was the first time I've seen Cam and Teal'c in a plane and maybe the next 9 episodes it will be T up front. Cam is a pilot and it is only natural that he pilots sometimes. Onto the hug...

Sam walks up to the guys, who had feared she might be dead. Cam hugs her in a nice PLATONIC way and Teal'c takes her by the shoulders and gives her the most sincere look of relief and regard. His is (and, I think, is intended to be) the more intimate. It's really well acted by CJ. Teal'c has hugged Sam in the past, but it is not his preferred way of expressing his emotions. THIS is very Teal'c.

- Daniel being Daniel. When will Daniel learn? Never. Which is why I find him frustrating and lovable in equal measure. MS did a good job of showing Daniel's grief when he thought SG-1 were dead and during the scenes with the Rand president.

- Daniel and Cam drinking on Base. Whether or not rules have been broken, I'm not sure (Cam's off duty, in Daniel's study and Daniel's not even military). But I liked the way that Cam sought out Daniel in his spare time after having a bad day - they are becoming friends as well as colleagues - and the rest of that tag played out beautifully. Nice performances from both men.

I really enjoyed Ethon. It was tense and filled with the team action that I love (even though Daniel was stuck down on the planet for most of it). My favourite episode of S9 so far, I think.

Izzy

shester
February 9th, 2006, 03:18 AM
I liked Ethon too. I agree with Izzy about Landry's chair. I saw it as respect.
In fact I pretty much agree with everything Izzy said so I won't do a repeat.
Sybil

ChillinTheMost
February 9th, 2006, 07:09 AM
Izzy, not that you care, but I always check back to see how others felt about the show, so please don't think we're not reading anymore.

Plus, I totally agree with everything you said, so I definitely want you to come back often and post your thoughts!!!

[Apparently, I'd already greened you recently, so I couldn't again. Catch ya later!]

AnotherEvilAlien
February 9th, 2006, 09:25 AM
Ok, i've had enought of pathetic whiney b***ards who whine on and on about OMG, blowing up promethius was a bad move. or WHy didn't they let it live. the fact is THE PROMETHEUS IS GONE NOW, AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO SO GET OVER IT. You don't like it fine but you go and rant at tptb about it, coz i couldn't care less about you thinking it shouldn't have been blown up. What about that wraith ship in the seige part one, i bet you were all like You can't blow up that wraith hive ship, its a bad idea. etc. I know im not the only person here who thinks this, but its gone, and it was nessicary for development of the show, and the fact is, they will get the oddesy in 2 episodes, so we ouldn't be seeing the prometheus anyway because the oddessy will take over the role of main ship.

You don't like it tough sh*t, cry all you want, whine all you want, because its gone and thats it. There is nothing you can do. Infact go and make a thread called Ethon, screw ups etc.. Its gone and thats that. There is nothing you can do.

Whining about whiners will not improve a situation.

Also, I respect your input. It is not fair for you to discount others and belittle them for their opinion on this episode.

Dani347
February 9th, 2006, 09:42 AM
- Sitting in Landry's chair. I saw Sam and Cam declining the General's chair, not as a bow to their co-command, but as a mark of respect to Landry. Even when he is away they won't sit in his chair. I was quite surprised when others read something deeper into it.

It was kind of a humorous moment. It put me in the mind of kids in a class who have the opportunity to sit in the teacher's chair while he's away, but just know that somehow he'll find out.





Sam walks up to the guys, who had feared she might be dead. Cam hugs her in a nice PLATONIC way and Teal'c takes her by the shoulders and gives her the most sincere look of relief and regard. His is (and, I think, is intended to be) the more intimate. It's really well acted by CJ. Teal'c has hugged Sam in the past, but it is not his preferred way of expressing his emotions. THIS is very Teal'c.

In fact, most of the really meaningful moments between Teal'c and another member of SG1 have involved minimal touching.

GhostPoet
February 9th, 2006, 10:54 AM
Cam..as always..is proving himself to be my all time favorite character :)

Jumper One
February 9th, 2006, 01:19 PM
In fact, most of the really meaningful moments between Teal'c and another member of SG1 have involved minimal touching.

..."minimal touching"... thats Teal'c for you... :tealc:

Margaret
February 9th, 2006, 06:59 PM
Too true. If nothing else, the whole mess that followed their return to Earth would throw that experience back into sharp relief.

Having said that, though, with that knowledge of what superior firepower did to his principles and where that led, what on earth was Danny playing at in insisting the Rand Protectorate be allowed to retain possession of the satellite? Surely he must have considered there to be at least a possibility that they would fire the thing if things didn't go their way? Did he really believe that the ordinary Caledonian in the street would happily comply with forcible exile? Yes it would end the civil war at a stroke, but it would also leave matters in a 'victor' and 'vanquished' situation, which would in itself be a major sparking point. Faced with the enforced displacement of their entire population, not to mention the whole shadow of 'defeat' it was almost inevitable that the Caledonians would jam their heels in after the Earth-folk left. Besides, chances are the Rand government would start using the Satellite on any area of their own country were the populace were perceived to be less 'faithful' followers of Origin once they no longer had any Caledonians to point it at.

I appreciate that Danny was under enormous pressure to come up with some sort of solution that wouldn't bring about an immediate bloodbath and this was probably the best he could come up with in the time he had. But the idea of leaving the Caledonians so hugely outgunned and facing permanent exile (not to mention patronising Rand sentiments about 'nobility in defeat' - I don't believe for a moment that they wouldn't have some of that thrown at them) seems so bizarre a solution that I wonder what made him propose it.

Either way, not destroying that satellite while they had the opportunity was a bit of a major cock-up, I reckon. But then, they do say that hindsight is 20/20, don't they? ;)

Suppose the satellite had been destroyed? What would have happened?

Jared told Daniel that the Caledonians were on the verge of launching a land-based attack to wipe out Rand for once and for all, before the Prior showed up.

Daniel said that since the Rand have the plans for the satellite, if the current one were destroyed, they would simply build another one.

Given that, wouldn't the Caledonians feel obligated to launch an attack on Rand to make sure that next satellite never got built? They couldn't take the chance of being put in that position ever again.

I really think that if the satellite had been destoyed, the next thing that would have happened would be that Caledonia would destroy Rand. Then the Prior would return, and it would be Caledonia dealing with the Prior. Don't you see? The Caledonians will wind up in exactly the same position that Rand was with respect to the Priors. They can't win because they can't fight the Prior.

Remember at the beginning of the show, in shots from previous episodes, there was a Jaffa who said, "If a Prior comes to your planet, leave!"? That is really the Caledonians only option, if they want to live free. If they stay, they will certainly fall under Ori domination, whether they defeat Rand or not. Daniel offered them their only way out. It wasn't just to stop a civil war, it was to save them from the Priors.

I'm not sure if the talks broke down on the Rand side, or on the Caledonian side, but its possible that the Caledonians did not take the threat from the Prior as seriously as they should have. They should have been evacuating, not negotiating.

Well, maybe some of them did evacuate and are on another planet somewhere, now cut off from their homeworld. Perhaps we'll meet them, sometime.

I wonder if any will recognize Daniel, or if he will be someone they only heard about, a long time ago ...

Margaret
February 9th, 2006, 07:13 PM
Even if they did get the enough of the blueprints to reverse engineer the weapon the international committee might not approve; and I think Daniel might have some thing to say about it (Daniel having gone through that whole weapons thing in absolute power). Although it would be cool if they could adapt those blueprints to upgrade the weapons on their Daedalus class ships it would be a big help to them.

On one hand, it would give them their first look at bona fide Ori-designed technology. And won't the Priors be aghast when their own creation is turned against them!

On the other hand, if the United States produced one of these things, the Russians would object strenuously, and probably other nations would, too. It would put any end to Mutual Assured Destruction. It would be incredibly destabilizing. It would, in fact, be the Star Wars weapon that President Reagan was trying to build.

Imagine if a weapon like that fell into the hands of the Bush administration! :eek:

JedI Master of the Gate
February 9th, 2006, 09:04 PM
I recently heard about Prometheus death, and have since been in a depresed mood! But seeings as how channel 7 won't show season 9 eps until next year, I must know did Prometheus blow up completely? Or did it just brake in half, and full to the planet?

Ascended Times.2
February 9th, 2006, 09:24 PM
"First 'da one 'den 'da othe'" -Wacky Old Moon man in the second episode of Futurama, The Series has landed.

Anyway, it was broke in half at the third shot, and shortly after that, it exploded, and went "KABOOM!"
It was a sad, sad sight, and as it cut in half, it showed you a picture of Pendergast as the bright light was about to envelop him...*Sniff*

We'll miss ya buddy. *Sticks a thumb up*

someonerandom
February 10th, 2006, 02:31 AM
i wish the "new ship" was cloaked in the background and pendergast and a select portion of the crew was beamed there.. but that makes it too easy, eh.. perhaps in an AU, that would have been the case.

DarkQuee1
February 10th, 2006, 12:00 PM
Well, *that* was a bad ep. Starting with the fact that it was a follow-up to one of the most boring eps in the series.

Then, half the episode was blowing up the Prometheus (no great loss, considering how many times it's been taken over by outsiders, including one one occasion by one person). That's it. Lots of things going boom, which I suppose appeals to some viewers (and, hey, I like a good explosion or two myself. But not when it overwhelms the ep). What it really means, however, from a storytelling perspective is that they didn't have enough story to actually fill out an episode.

Worse was that TPTB couldn't have made every one look more like idiots if that were their intention. Including the SGC and the AF, because the way this ep was structured, it appeared as if SG1 were solely responsible for making the decision to do this mission. I don't care if Landry *is* in Washington, there would be a 2IC on the base who would have been running the briefing with Caine [sp] and making the decision. At the very least, we should have been told--and all it would take was one sentence--that this was approved by Landry and, for that matter, the head of Homeworld Security (someone we should know about but we still haven't been officially told).

But then, the list is endless. Mitchell, a Lt. Colonel on a military base, looks to a civilian for authority to open the gate? I don't care how long Daniel has been there; it's not his call (yes, Mitchell could have looked to Daniel for confirmation that it *was* Caine, and that Caine was someone they could trust, but that was it).

Then, Daniel decides, after being Mr. Rock-'em-Sock'em all season, to suddenly be "Let's Talk it Over" Daniel--at precisely the wrong time. He's well aware that these people had religious fanatic tendencies before this and now they are in the grip of the Orii. *And* they now have a great weapon that could take out their traditional enemy. He really believes they are going to be amenable to reason? Or that the Orii would actually let them turn the Rand?
How many people didn't know that the Rand would *not* listen and that Daniel would be taken prisoner? Raise your hands--and then go back and re-take Remedial TV.

This was just a ridiculous move, and it gave them an easy hostage.

Meahwhile, back at the ranch, er, ship, they come out of hyperspace--and proceed *not* to follow their game plan. In part, of course, because Daniel went off to tilt at windmills and they hesitated--another reason why the talk session should never have been allowed. Settle on one option--talk or fight--and stick with it. So, despite the fact that they agreed before leaving for Caledonia that they would fire the instant they came out of hyperspace and it that failed, immediately jump away, they don't do either of them. Ending with the loss of a very expensive piece of equipment and 40 lives.

(And you have to explain why Prendergast waited for Mitchell's OK to fire. He *outranks* Mitchell--he's a full bird--and he was captain of the vessel. Once they were on the ship, he was in command. It should have been strictly his decision to fire. In real life, since Daniel was not his primary concern, he probably would have fired right away. *That* was his mission.)

Next, we have the dreaded "deus ex machina". The solution? Something we *never* heard about, in the 1-1/2 years since TLC. An EM pulse that occurred? And Sam was studying it? But they waited a year before asking her to study it? And I guess she was working on that in between working on the device they used in Beachead. (We also need to ask *why* they would find it that interesting at Area 51. Deathgliders have blown up before, all around motherships and alkeshes, without apparently damaging their power systems, so it isn't as if the pulse could be used against the Goa'uld. So, was Area 51 studying to use here on Earth? )

Why was Teal'c flying second seat to Mitchell? He's the most experienced deathglider pilot they have; he should have been flying his own ship. But then they would have actually had to give him a *part* in the episode.

Oh, and then we get to the "deal" Daniel "brokered". Are they kidding? Raise your hands, anyone who *didn't* know that the Rand president would *not* honor the deal and would power up the weapon after Mitchell pulled out. (You guys again? Sigh. Obviously *one* Remedial TV course isn't enough.) And everyone acts surprised! Daniel, Sam, everyone. Where have they been the last 8-1/2 years that this surprises them? Someone needs to let the "new" SG1 in on the secret that villains aren't usually honorable.

Worse still was that TPTB apparently think the viewers are fools. If they tell us it was a great move, we'll accept it as that regardless of what actually happened. So Mitchell tells Daniel that he did a great job brokering the deal that got them home. GMAB. At that point, Caine was in control of the Rand--and *he* had no intention of detaining the Tau'ri. He would have let us go home even if the gate were still in Rand. The Caledonians also had no interest in keeping us prisoners and would have let us go--probably even given us transport to Rand if needed.

So: Daniel's "deal" fell apart 40 seconds after he brokered it, and it certainly was *not* needed to get us home. But I guess the PTB think that if they say it was important loudly enough we will forget (1) that Daniel's insistence on going to try to reason with religious fanatics cost 40 people (on the Prometheus) their lives, along with the ship itself, and (2) that leaving the weapon intact resulted in the probable destruction of everyone on the planet.

IMO, the PTB should be doing handsprings to have gotten a 1.5 rating for this one.

someonerandom
February 10th, 2006, 01:18 PM
somebody is bitter

Madeleine
February 10th, 2006, 09:41 PM
What a great episode! It would have been better if I hadn't fallen over half a dozen RIP Prometheus!!1! threads last week, but Mr W was unspoiled so I did get my vicarious thrill as it exploded :D

Poor Pendergast. But he got a Good Death, and I like it when characters die well, even if they were good characters (I'm perverse that way).

I did read through the thread, and if I missed it I'm really sorry - but why "Ethon"? does it mean something or was it someone's name?

Jades
February 10th, 2006, 10:08 PM
I did read through the thread, and if I missed it I'm really sorry - but why "Ethon"? does it mean something or was it someone's name?

I think it was a reference to Greek mythology. Ethon was a giant eagle born of two monsters who gnawed on Prometheus' liver.

andrelage
February 11th, 2006, 02:24 PM
I loved this episode especially the image of the Prometheus blowing up. Shame that it was destroyed.


(And you have to explain why Prendergast waited for Mitchell's OK to fire. He *outranks* Mitchell--he's a full bird--and he was captain of the vessel. Once they were on the ship, he was in command. It should have been strictly his decision to fire. In real life, since Daniel was not his primary concern, he probably would have fired right away. *That* was his mission.)

I totally agree with you.

SeaBee
February 15th, 2006, 05:14 PM
I am afraid I am biased against this episode, as I didn't like the ep. this lot appeared in last time around.

As soon as the ship dropped out of warp it was obvious that the prometheus was a gonner.

Sorry, I just didn't like the ep.

joshuaselig
February 18th, 2006, 02:25 AM
it was a bit of a give away that the Prometheus was a goner, considering that "Ethon" was the eagle that eat the liver of the titan of the same name in mythology.

Danny was in a bit of a pickle, he was trying what came naturally attempting to prevent global catastrophe, even though with each passing minute it was becoming apparent that Rand and Caledonia was going to destroy themselves, I hope they use the blueprints to augment the Daedulus and the Odyssey that I think has replaced the Prometheus, Ironic though that the latter went up in fire considering in Greek mythology it was the gift of fire that got Prometheus in trouble with the Greek Pantheon in the first place among other things. :D

telpethoniel
February 19th, 2006, 12:29 AM
I think it was a reference to Greek mythology. Ethon was a giant eagle born of two monsters who gnawed on Prometheus' liver.

Wow, thanks for that. I was wondering why the name, and I love mythology

Esquin
February 21st, 2006, 07:02 PM
Did anyone else notice that they launched the F-302's out of a hyperdrive engine?
http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s6/graphics/611_11.jpg

see link for proof of engine.

TsukuYomi
February 22nd, 2006, 08:08 PM
Amen to that.

TsukuYomi
February 22nd, 2006, 08:11 PM
Just wanted to say that etho was the worst episode ever. I thought it was completely pointless. The fact that it was a standalone was stupide because there should have been hell to pay for sg1 going into that without recon of any sort. Could the trap have been any clearer. I just stole the plans for my govenrment's top secret new weapon. Oh they want to have a meeting with us let's go through the gate and talk things out.

PG15
February 22nd, 2006, 08:18 PM
How exactly would they do recon?

There is 2 ways to get there, and only 2 ways: The Gate (which was guarded by the Rand) and the Prometheus (which would be detected by the weapon). In other words, they really can't do any recon work.

ILoveStargate!
February 24th, 2006, 11:12 AM
I wish they have added the deleted scene where Daniel implies he and Cameron are lovers in antother dimension. well thats what i like to think anyway

cafine_us
February 24th, 2006, 01:56 PM
I don't think any gay relationships would really vibe well with the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

YodaMate
February 26th, 2006, 05:20 PM
Okay, after a little time to allow emotions to cool, i've decided to analyse the two main contentious points in this episode ; the issue of going to war with Rand and who exactly is at fault for the destruction of Prometheus.

First, the anatomy of the death of our ship. Once the initial shot from the satellite was fired, it was all over. The systems required to retreat or even evade the next shot were down and couldn't be brought back up in time, with the addition of a merciless commander on the other end, meant that the engagement was decided the moment the beam first discharged. So let's recall the moments leading up to that shot.

Prommie drops out of hyperspace within range of the planet, begins an attacking run on the satellite and immediately locks onto the missing Dr Jackson's beacon and beams it onto the bridge. At this point, there is some debate amongst SG-1 and Pendergast as to whether to proceed with the mission and jeopardise Daniel's chances. Pendergast has no opinion but he does ask for the two Colonels of SG-1 to "make up their minds quickly". Mitchell remarks that Daniel knew the risks and orders the opening of hostilities.

Unfortunately, the satellite has detected their approach and begins powering up, essentially throwing the advantage of surprise that would have scored an easy kill. However, Daniel cannot be faulted for that ; as Mitchell said, he did (or should) have known that decision may have to be made, and it is in fact solely the fault of the rest of SG-1 that they did not take the time during the journey to consider the contingency and have a response prepared. SG-1 cost them surprise and an easy victory.

Following this exchange, missiles are launched and bounce harmlessly against Orii designed shields. This is the fault of Carter's analysis of the schematics, though she was well aware of the fact that those were early designs (and that later designs were been used), she dismissed too readily the possibility of shields. One could argue that she (and everyone, including Pendergast) had an unfounded presumption that the Asgard shields would be effective against Orii technology, but Carter herself should have known better - not only should she be aware that the Orii possess an incredible level of know-how (including the possibility of incorporating knowledge only Ascended have) but she should immediately have recalled the Ancient satellite found in the Pegasus galaxy and its ability to bypass Wraith shields. She made assumptions about the comparative level of tech they were dealing with that she should have known were not well-founded and she should have advised greater caution. This placed Prommie in greater jeopardy than it otherwise may have been.

But the final fault does not lie with SG-1. Their rash actions, indecision and ill-advised analysis of the situation contributed to the eventual outcome but they did not decide the outcome. Rather, the moment that did comes immediately following the failed attack, where upon hearing the news, Colonel Pendergast looks stunned, turns around and utters "now what ?".

Note that there was a brief debate over targeting on the surface below, which meant that Prommie had at least several seconds to respond to the failed attack. Mitchell had laid out the Earth policy of attacking Rand's asset, thus the ship and mission was then entirely Pendergast's responsibility. But rather than immediately giving the order to jump to hyperspace, he hesitated and asked for expert advice. He may not have realised the danger his ship was in due to flawed analysis and assumptions, but ultimately, he did not act at the critical moment. Now, i loved him as a character, he was a good captain and he bravely tried to redeem himself in saving some of the crew. But that does not change the fact that our beloved Pendergast is responsible for the loss of his ship.

YodaMate
February 26th, 2006, 05:40 PM
Now, the second issue, that of the attack on Rand Protectorate's assets.

What the show tends not to state outright is the chain of command when it comes to the SGC, and its autonomy in making policy decisions for the U.S (ostensibly on behalf of Earth) with regards to other planets. In fact, the SGC is a front-line facility that, as evidenced on numerous occasions, has the capacity to make instant decisions regarding the U.S position to extra-terrestrial individuals and planets. Because the situations SGC encounters normally are time-sensitive, the SGC commander has the ability and autonomy to make rapid-response decisions of the kind that would normally be debated in military and political circles for months. It is later on that the commander's decisions are reviewed at all sorts of levels and on one occasion the President determined that the commander should be re-assigned.

Generals Hammond, O'Neill and Landry (and Dr Weir) have had an extraordinary responsibility implicit in their commands. They are the proxy for the entire U.S goverment, and by default, the planet. What is also not usually highlighted on the show but is implicit in countless episodes, is that authority extends to SGC personnel that are in the field, representing their planet. Also, there is a 2IC for the SGC - the leader of the SG-1 unit, whether that be Jack, Sam or Mitchell. Due to the rapid-response nature of their work, if for whatever reason the General is not present, we have seen time and again that SG-1 leader (or the most senior SG-1 member present) has the authority to make decisions, the most common been the opening of the iris (which in effect, is an order to lower the planet's defences).

As such, Mitchell had plenty of autonomy and authority to make decisions without Landry's presence. And let us not forget that the Rand government was officially a hostile nation - they had severed diplomatic ties and had declared allegiance to the Orii, with whom Earth is at war. They have seen evidence that those who pledge loyalty to the Orii are not merely in bed with the enemy, but are often called upon to carry out operations for the Orii (see the Sodan experience). Not to mention that the Orii had outfitted these followers with a powerful weapon and were already actively using it to subjugate another culture to Origin. As such, they were a hostile nation and Mitchell is well within his rights as de facto SGC commander to order aggressive operations against it.

However, even to satisfy the die-hard supporters of sovereignty in this case, they sent an extraordinary diplomatic mission, at the Rand government's invitation, in the form of Daniel to try some rather desparate attempts at convincing them to dismantle the weapon. And then, the Rand proceeded to detain without notification the diplomatic representative of Earth, never once dialling Earth to explain their actions. As such, the Tau'ri should have presumed that Rand was either hostile or at war, and were well within their rights to attack an unmanned drone asset.

RuleBritannia
March 28th, 2006, 09:47 AM
Kuullllllllllllllll

Quinn McFly
April 3rd, 2006, 10:00 AM
I haven't read every post but I got to wondering when gang got captured by men who haven't see a woman for looong time, not soilders, so :sam: got away unstractched? Yet :cameron: got beaten up.

Pharaoh Atem
May 7th, 2006, 06:22 AM
i watched this epsiode again i still teared up

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f269/pj111984/c0c13ec1.jpg

freyr's mother
May 7th, 2006, 11:07 AM
i watched this epsiode again i still teared up

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f269/pj111984/ethon0178.jpg

Likewise dude, same with when the Korelev goes boom in Camelot.

Mattathias2.0
May 11th, 2006, 11:47 AM
I rewatched this episode and I was still in awe hoe they destroyed the Prommie... Just aweful!

Mattathias

Oranos
May 12th, 2006, 02:19 PM
Likewise dude, same with when the Korelev goes boom in Camelot.

Seeing the Prometheus explode was so very sad. But which DSC explodes in Camelot is considered a spoiler. Please adjust in your post.

Dark Falcon
May 17th, 2006, 03:24 PM
When the Prometheus exploded, I
looked at the TV and found myself
thinking, "NOOOO!" What made it worse
was that a couple F-302s exploded...
or was it one? My favorite starships! :(

After that, I wanted that satellite
to blow up so badly.

Stan
July 20th, 2006, 10:14 AM
Very good episode...


But was that a microphone above Amanda's head?



p.s. Adminstrator did search this sight but found no matches, sorry if duplicate article...

RuleBritannia
July 20th, 2006, 11:16 AM
An excellent episode but it was in Season 9 not 8

Adria
July 23rd, 2006, 08:01 PM
very depressing episode poor lionel

Rottie
July 25th, 2006, 03:37 AM
I did find this episode at all not very happy,I don't think I would watch it again,but it was very greatly done.:) ...especially with cameron playing some good ship flying moments.:cameron:

John W
July 25th, 2006, 11:42 AM
I recently watched this episode on DVD. While I did have the major spoiler of the episode (Prometheus' demise) spoilt a few months ago, thankfully it only made me more eager to see this episode.

I was actually surprised at how emotional I got as the Prometheus got hammered. Then again, I usually get like that whenever the main ship in the show gets destroyed (the same went for the Defiant in "Star Trek Deep Space Nine" or the Babylon 5 station in the show of the same name). I'd like to especially mention how Joel Goldsmith's awesome score became somewhat sad/desperate as Pendergast began ordering the crew to abandon ship.

I'd like to also draw a parallel between the Prometheus' destruction and the aforementioned destruction of the Defiant in "DS9" (apologies to everyone who isn't a Star Trek fan!). Both times, the crew go into battle totally confident that it's going to be a piece of cake and routine, only to get totally hammered in the end. The only differences are that in DS9, the Captain didn't go down with the ship and they at least waited a few episodes before getting a replacement. As grateful as I was to see the introduction of the Odyssey in the next episode, I felt it somewhat cheapened the destruction of the Prometheus, as if to say, "Oh well, we lost the Prometheus but we've got another ship to replace it". Still, it was a nice little touch at the end that they had to get the Daedalus to go to Rand on it's way back from Atlantis.

Speaking of nice touches, I wasn't expecting that awesome shot of those crewmembers getting blown out the side of the ship. It's always nice when the show's makers go that extra mile to add to the excitement. I also picked-up on a little extra bit of shock and sadness from Mitchell, both when the Prometheus got destroyed and when he learned that Pendergast died. After all, Mitchell did used to be a crewmember and was obviously good friends with Pendergast, as seen in earlier episodes this season.

Another problem I had with this episode is the total absence of General Landry. I'm guessing that Beau Bridges was unavailable for this episode. But it did seem odd that SG-1 are both seemingly in charge of the SGC at the start of the episode and go on a mission all by themselves. Yeah, I know they probably contacted either Landry or General O'Neill beforehand, it just seemed a little odd to me. I kept expecting Landry to come back at the end and say, "Look what happens when I go away. You lose both the Prometheus AND get an entire civilisation wiped out!"

Anyway, overall I'd give the episode 4 out of 5.

BTW, I thought that was an interesting theory that was mentioned on the main Gateworld summary page for this episode. If both Rand and Caledonia were destroyed by the time the Daedalus arrived at the planet, does that mean that Colonel Caldwell was able to retrieve the Ori Weapon Satellite, which was presumably inactive in orbit? (If this is confirmed or denied in a future episode, please don't tell me. LOL!)

Rottie
July 28th, 2006, 10:24 AM
Hehehe some spoilers I just can't contain myself into not reading.:cameron:

Admiral Mappalazarou
August 25th, 2006, 05:08 AM
The sequel to 'Icon' and I wasn't a big fan to be honest. It was sad to see my favourite ship beneath the Deadalus, The Promethius, get blown to buggery. But it was gonna happen one way or another - WHHHHHHY!!!!!!?

phaeton
October 5th, 2006, 04:29 PM
Good Entertaining Episode 8/10 :)

Adria
October 9th, 2006, 06:08 AM
may she and lionel R.I.P. http://youtube.com/watch?v=AeqlnR2Zo_A The Prometheus Final Hours

Sheppard
October 9th, 2006, 08:13 AM
it was sad how promethius got destroyed and in the next episode we had another ship how could they just replace it like that

Airazor
October 29th, 2006, 07:08 PM
i balled my eyes out in this epsiuode there was no reason for Colonel Penderghast to go down with the ship :(

TheGreatLordGeorge
February 17th, 2007, 08:58 PM
Just watched this episode again today, te prometheus scene still chills me to the bone

Anubis-
March 3rd, 2007, 03:34 PM
Was that man, who actually use that weapon (by command of leader) old first prime of Systemlord Yu?

dosed150
March 4th, 2007, 07:28 AM
i just watched this again and realised a massive error theyre talking about using the inertial dampeners from the f302 to cause an em pulse, but wouldnt it be a lot easier just to use one of the caledonians nukes to do the same thing

Anubis-
March 4th, 2007, 08:37 AM
i just watched this again and realised a massive error theyre talking about using the inertial dampeners from the f302 to cause an em pulse, but wouldnt it be a lot easier just to use one of the caledonians nukes to do the same thing

Caledonin's computer was down because of pulse

Saul Tigh
April 22nd, 2007, 04:45 PM
this has got to be the saddest epsidoes ever.!! :( poor lional

ColCaldwell
April 24th, 2007, 07:07 PM
I am tired that the Commanders, full fleged colonels are asking for the opinions of lower ranks. It is so annoying.

garhkal
April 27th, 2007, 11:13 AM
True.. In that scene he should have been more 'decicive...
BUT since mitchell is also a cornal, why would he not ask his advice?

Jill_Ion
May 2nd, 2007, 06:30 AM
Just rewatched this ep. Still a very powerful experience for me. Got shivers of sadness watching Prometheus get destroyed. Interesting ep also because it wasn't a "We won!" show. Ended on a more somber, and more realistic note. Having a Stargate doesn't make cultures or people better or wiser.

I get what you're saying, ColCaldwell. I have occasionally felt the same. But I think in this particular episode, it was Mitchell's mission, so that's why Pendergast was deferring to him.


(Besides the obvious "support character v. main character thing.)

suse
May 2nd, 2007, 08:01 AM
True.. In that scene he should have been more 'decicive...
BUT since mitchell is also a cornal, why would he not ask his advice?

Well, so is Sam. I seem to remember him saying "Colonels". She also had more than "I read the mission reports" :rolleyes: knowledge of the universe. ANd let's not forget she lead the team in S8 when Daniel was first stuck on the planet. Though Pendergast should never have asked thier opinions anyway.


Though Mitchell did a nice job flying.

suse
Bitter? Moi?

the fifth man
May 3rd, 2007, 09:16 AM
Every time I watch this episode, I come to appreciate it more and more. IMO, it was one of the finest of Season 9.

garhkal
May 3rd, 2007, 12:42 PM
I get what you're saying, ColCaldwell. I have occasionally felt the same. But I think in this particular episode, it was Mitchell's mission, so that's why Pendergast was deferring to him.


That is an interesting point..

Lt. Col. Mcoy
May 31st, 2007, 12:46 PM
Every time I watch this episode, I come to appreciate it more and more. IMO, it was one of the finest of Season 9.
I completely agree, Ethon was one of the season's best written eps (it and Beachead are the top). It was sad, but not poor. (in writing or acting)

monkey_man132
May 31st, 2007, 05:16 PM
:danielanime08: Prometheus!

I loved this episode, beautifully done and stuff but sad indeed. I would have loved to see Prometheus and Korolev join Odyssey at the battle of P3Y-229. Oh my poor Prometheus!

garhkal
June 1st, 2007, 05:17 PM
True... I would have loved to see them all side by side... I am actually surprised there was only the one X303..

SgaIsBad
August 16th, 2008, 07:33 AM
Just watched this during a rerun..I can't believe they let the ship get destroyed. They sat around for five minutes saying..."Uh what do we do George, what do we do...." And then they get blown to pieces. And they should have destroyed the satellite when they had the chance. Even if they could build another one, at least it would have taken them a year. And the Daniel captured in the prison cell was way to abrupt for me. Major plot holes all around..........

Dumper
August 16th, 2008, 12:04 PM
Just watched this during a rerun..I can't believe they let the ship get destroyed. They sat around for five minutes saying..."Uh what do we do George, what do we do...." And then they get blown to pieces. And they should have destroyed the satellite when they had the chance. Even if they could build another one, at least it would have taken them a year. And the Daniel captured in the prison cell was way to abrupt for me. Major plot holes all around..........


The things you have described are not plot holes in any way whatsoever, they are just things you didn't agree with.

Jeff O'Connor
August 18th, 2008, 05:14 AM
I completely agree, Ethon was one of the season's best written eps (it and Beachead are the top). It was sad, but not poor. (in writing or acting)

While I might not agree with those two being at the top, I definitely agree that they're both excellent. This episode stands as a fine hour in the backlog for me, and I was nearly in tears when Pendergast and the Prometheus kicked the bucket.

jyh
September 8th, 2008, 03:21 PM
Funny.... in the last scene, Mitchell places a can of beer in front of Daniel, and then sits back and opens his own can. They talk for a minute about the sad state of the planet they'd been on, and finally, Mitchell sums it up with "Rough day." Daniel sighs and agrees "Rough day." he picks up his beer can & brings it to his lips, seemingly drinking from it. Funny thing is,... he never opened it.

;)

Livestick
September 8th, 2008, 03:32 PM
Funny.... in the last scene, Mitchell places a can of beer in front of Daniel, and then sits back and opens his own can. They talk for a minute about the sad state of the planet they'd been on, and finally, Mitchell sums it up with "Rough day." Daniel sighs and agrees "Rough day." he picks up his beer can & brings it to his lips, seemingly drinking from it. Funny thing is,... he never opened it.

;)

Mitchell opened it.

Crazedwraith
December 3rd, 2008, 03:41 AM
Granted I only saw this episode once when it first aired but I remember disliked this episode intensely. Possibly because I'd already been spoiled on the big event by people's RIP Prommie sigs.

But it seemed to me that the entire episode was based around one thing: We have to kill the Prometheus to make way for new flashier 304 to come in and be the new hero ship.

I'm sorry but the Odyssey just does not cut it. I wanted to see the Prommie and Deadelus fight side by side at least once.

Ulkesh47
June 16th, 2009, 07:47 AM
I wanted to see the Prommie and Deadelus fight side by side at least once.
Me too, although I have to admit that Prometheus' destruction kicked so much a** that I might be willing to possibly, maybe, let it slide.

vzzzzzbx
July 24th, 2009, 05:56 PM
Good episode. I remember on first viewing thinking "oh no not the Rand and Caledonians again" (yawn), glad I was wrong.

Pharaoh Atem
November 28th, 2009, 06:09 PM
Why did they let him through the gate? Don't they know he is a Cylon?

my hero :D

Tachyon
March 4th, 2010, 08:34 AM
Just watched this and... oy. Not my cup of tea, I'm afraid.

mrscopterdoc
April 7th, 2010, 07:28 PM
Not bad but not great.

maneth
January 7th, 2011, 08:48 AM
Oh well, at least we won't hear from the Rand or the Caledonians ever again. A depressing episode if there ever was one.

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
March 31st, 2012, 06:15 PM
hey what do you guys think the repercussions were back on earth for losing Prometheus cause I'm sure the IOA along with the pentagon were at each other's throats about who should be held responsible for the loss of the Prometheus and the 39 crew members who were killed in the attack. (Col. Pendergast included)

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
April 20th, 2012, 10:50 AM
This was a great episode. Easily one of the Top 3 episodes of Season 9.

It's sad Prometheus got destroyed, it was a cool ship, one of it's own. Her Captain when down with her, heroically.

Joel's score during the destruction scene was just beautiful.

Monday, Ba'al steals Stargates.

Jae'a
April 20th, 2012, 01:49 PM
It's sad Prometheus got destroyed, it was a cool ship, one of it's own. Her Captain when down with her, heroically.

Agreed, I hate watching that bit. :danielanime08: Like I wrote in my LJ, she's almost like another member of the SGC...

My LiveJournal post (http://jo-r-lee.livejournal.com/49994.html)

Krisz
April 20th, 2012, 06:39 PM
Watching this episode only annoys me again at the senseless waste of the Prometheus, which is my favourite Stargate ship after Destiny, for a bunch of no good ungrateful *&$%#** who blew themselves up anyway!!!!

This is why it was one episode I didn't really want to watch again. :(

...but it is the episode with the wonderful Daniel line.......


KANE: Do you ever give up?

DANIEL: Not until I'm dead...........And sometimes not even then.

discodiva
April 20th, 2012, 10:25 PM
Very sad episode...but full of some great Daniel interaction, both with Kane and then with Cam at the end...both Ben and Michael conveyed the utter hopelessness of the situation so well in that final minute...

Sad to see the Prommie go....personally I've always thought our earth ships were so damn ugly, but I like Col. P. and it was very noble of him to go with the ship...:(

On a side note, which is less dour, I did keep expecting Ernie Hudson to pop up saying "Who ya gonna call?" and waving a home-made Ghostbusting proton pack!..:P

Deeds xx

jelgate
April 22nd, 2012, 04:35 PM
That one of my favorite episodes just in the saddness of what happened to Pendergast and the Promethus. I felt like really punching Nadal when he destroyed the Promethus. I felt like their was a real sense of emotion of watching the Promethus crew scrambling and Pendergast sacrificing his own life at the end to give his own crew time to escape to Caledonia. The solution to the Ori satelite was a creative one to me. Using an EM pulse seems low brow compared to the technobabble in Stargate but since the concept actually existed I liked using it in disabling the satelite. The Daniel arguing got old fast and overdone. It also seemed naive. I think by now he should know the Rand Protecterate wouldn't act peacefully in thier fight with Caledonia.

suse
April 22nd, 2012, 04:48 PM
This ep was so much better than it's first part The English Patient 'Icon'. Not nearly as slow. I was sad to see the Prommie go. :( The scene where Teal'c and Sam met up after she beamed off at the last instant was touching.

the fifth man
April 22nd, 2012, 05:20 PM
IMO, this episode was definitely one of Season 9's best.

suse
April 22nd, 2012, 05:33 PM
Yep.
..
....
......
:jonas16:

Lieutenant Sparrow
April 23rd, 2012, 10:31 PM
Poor Prometheus :( the only unique earth ship. The rest being clones of Daedalus. Of all things for it to be destroyed by it had to be a satellite :(

The leader of Rand was a fool. So glad he was shot. But in the end it was all for nothing as they still destroyed each other.

It's hard to stomach watching such a sad ending.

Matt G
April 26th, 2012, 04:47 AM
So...

1. Didn't think I'd ever see that bunch again.

2. The Tau'ri get caught offguard...and the Prommie gets toasted.

3. Cut Mitchell some slack here - this potentially could have been a very big win for the Ori.

4. The beer...well I had to do a double take on that but if they're off duty presumably meh.

garhkal
April 26th, 2012, 02:49 PM
The leader of Rand was a fool. So glad he was shot. But in the end it was all for nothing as they still destroyed each other.
.

I did like the ep, as it showed us what might happen if earth went public with the program....

Baron Of Hell
August 17th, 2013, 02:53 PM
Interesting episode. I didn't like how the Prometheus was destroyed but the effects were cool. The people end of killing themselves anyway so the ship was lost for nothing. I guess that was one of the points of the episode.

MniatureAddict
May 22nd, 2015, 12:11 PM
The Promethius is being torn to shreads...I really hope it surivives. If it doesn't, I think SG-1 will get beamed down to the planet first. That do you guys think?

BTW: I think this is a great episode.

Rough day... rough season, actually. I don't think SG1 has completely won a single time without Jack.

ErikaMariia
July 13th, 2015, 09:47 AM
I made the mistake to watch this episode again and now I'm astronomically pissed because these stupid people destroyed Prometheus and killed Col. Pendergast. :mad:

hedwig
July 13th, 2015, 12:38 PM
I made the mistake to watch this episode again and now I'm astronomically pissed because these stupid people destroyed Prometheus and killed Col. Pendergast. :mad:

This makes my list of "saddest moments in SG1 history". I really liked Pendergast and hated seeing this happen to him.

ErikaMariia
July 13th, 2015, 11:33 PM
I did too :(
I'm not a big fan of seasons 9 and 10 but this was one of the worst episodes.

I really liked Col. Emerson too

who got killed in the next season episode Company Of Thieves

garhkal
July 14th, 2015, 12:10 AM
Personally, i blame it all ON SG1 for if it was not for the overriding Pendergast's order to blow up the satellite as soon as they showed up, maybe it wouldn't have gotten powered up, and blew up the Prometheus.

hedwig
July 14th, 2015, 09:04 AM
I'll have to go back and watch that episode. I thought it was already powering up before Prometheus even did anything besides showing up near the planet.

garhkal
July 15th, 2015, 01:51 PM
IIRC it was not shielded/powered up, till the ship had entered range of ITS sensors, and those on the planet knew about the promie being there, and activated it.

Anja
October 17th, 2015, 10:29 AM
Close to reality - try everything and lose badly.
Sorry for Pendergast, the people on the planet weren't worth it.
Liked Carter in this one and the frustrating last scene - just like real life.

asylum69
October 23rd, 2017, 07:48 AM
Meaning of the name, 'Ethon'.

For those who are curious about the title of the episode, I found this online on a baby-naming site:-

Ethon Character Analysis of Meaning

Here is the characteristics of Ethon in details.
Although you have a good appreciation of material values, business ability, and skill in organizing and managing others, your success is restricted by a lack of self-confidence and initiative.
You have very expensive tastes, and your desires could well exceed your initiative in providing for them through your own efforts.
You have good business judgment but lack the confidence to carry out your own ideas unless assisted by an associate.
Your first name of Ethon has given you an expressive, diplomatic, and refined nature.
From a desire to eat too many rich foods, your health could suffer through kidney and generative troubles or any problems affecting the fluid functions of the body.
You are always well-groomed yourself, and you judge others by your own standard.
Through your diplomatic ways you are able to call on the assistance of others to avoid such matters.
Personal appearance is important to you.
You do not like to rough it or use much physical energy.

Judging by this analysis, I would say it could apply to either the Rand First Minister, or his first leftenant who changes his mind when swayed by Daniel and Kanes' argument.