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SimilarCadence
February 2nd, 2006, 08:19 AM
Guess I'm a little late to the party, but just wanted to put in my two cents worth before a new episode airs.....

I'm not usually a great fan of politics (on any planet) but I found the Jaffa storyline the best part of the story. First of all I loved having Teal'c, Bra'tac and Ba'al together again. Every time I see Ba'al---cloned or the real thing--- I realize just how much I miss the Goa'uld. For me, he's been the most consistently interesting of all the system lords, particularly because he knows he's not a god, but plays along with the whole charade in order to obtain more power. On a purely superficial note, Ba'al hasn't lost his sense of style--fashionista to the end. :D I love the way he dresses. (Sartorially Impressive One indeed, Chaka's_Mum!) Cliff Simon is fantastic. Period.

There is one suggestion I would make as far as the Free Jaffa go. Rya'c needs to be involved in all this. I've always thought Neil Denis did a great job playing him, from a young boy to a married man, and I 've always liked the fact that the same actor played Rya'c throughout the entire series. It makes sense to me that he would have a large part to play in the new Jaffa storyline....

To tptb: more Bra'tac, more Ba'al and please bring Rya'c back on a regular basis.

Izzy
February 2nd, 2006, 11:52 AM
I've finally managed to see Stronghold (deliberately thoroughly spoiled after reading this thread):

- after all the 'Super Cam' fuss I was expecting to see Mitchell lay waste to armies of Jaffa whilst putting the team in terrible peril. What I actually saw was Cam running ahead a bit (leaving the rest of SG-1 with the other SG teams), encountering some very stupid, easy to kill Jaffa and trying to get onto the escaping ship instead of waiting for backup as Sam had ordered. Not quite the OTT Rambo experience I was expecting. I did find it quite fun to watch, though. I can see that this impetuous side of Mitchell is not sitting well with those that know a thing or two about the military and want to see it represented as accurately as possible on Stargate. IMHO a little artistic leeway can help the drama so long as it doesn't get out of hand (Jack defied Hammond's direct orders on at least 2 occasions that I can recall and I find it difficult to believe that the way he conducted himself around his superior officers was according to strict protocol - Jack was still fun to watch). Cam on the (what turned out to be a fairly moderate) rampage gets a moderate fun rating from me.

- Much better than letting BB loose with a gun is letting him act. If you let him act angsty then you are on to a winner because he does it really well. I thought Ben was excellent in his scenes at the hospital with Mitchell's friend and in the scene with Teal'c in the locker room at the end.

- Loved Daniel and Bra'tak together. I've never noticed that dynamic before but I hope we get more of it.

- Although I don't want to see Cam miserable all the time, I'm glad that we're following through on the character trait relating to responsibility that we saw in Collateral Damage. He feels guilt/responsibility for his friend dying and doesn't avoid it - he takes time off to be with him, he pulls strings to get him into the hospital etc.

- I must say that it is always nice to see Sam in a leadership role. I've turned into quite the Cam fan and I don't have the doubts/fears that others have about his leadership abilities but I love Sam too. I'm torn...

I really liked Stronghold. If I had to fault it then it would be that the two storylines - each enjoyable in their own right - didn't gel as well as they might, despite the theme running throughout. If Mitchell had been with the others for more of the episode, finding out what had happened to Teal'c and planning a rescue mission then Stronghold might have been the best ep in s9.

Izzy

Izzy
February 2nd, 2006, 05:44 PM
I've finally managed to see Stronghold (deliberately thoroughly spoiled after reading this thread):

Why, oh why, won't my edit function work? And why, oh why, didn't I proof read before posting my last post?

A small thing perhaps but what I intended to convey in the brackets was that I had deliberately read the thread and spoilers contained therein. Instead, as I read it over now, it sounds like I am saying that the thread had deliberately spoiled the episode for me in terms of enjoyment. In the absence of an edit, this will have to do.

I hate it when my drafting goes awry...

Izzy

Valisnor
February 3rd, 2006, 11:31 AM
I noticed a few people said something about leaving alien tech at the hospital. Anyone that pays attention would also know that that is a military hospital where alien tech is utilized in the treatment of patients as mentiond by lt.con. and the doctor when discussing his friends brain anurizum. I do agree that the sub plot was very unneeded and detrimental to the rest of the plot and caused some breaks in the story line.

bcfc
February 4th, 2006, 04:08 AM
I enjoyed this episode because of its action towards the end, but i've never really got in to jaffa politics.

Gou'ld battles ya cant beat them

:) ;) :) ;)

scarimor
February 6th, 2006, 06:05 AM
This episode was, as they say, a game of two halves ;-) The B-story with Mitchell and his dying buddy felt quite disjointed and disconnected. But I did like the doctor who talked to Mitchell at the start - I hope we see some more of her.

I like Ba'al but I didn't feel he was used well enough - he stood around and gloated but we didn't see his machinations. Perhaps they're saving that up for one of the other clones. Teal'c getting tortured is getting a bit old - I say give one of the others a chance <g>. I didn't see the point of the tretonin incident - not sure what it was meant to demonstrate.

It was great to see Carter in command of a mission and delivering the goods. Her tactics were very sound, particularly when she had to think on her feet to deal with a Mitchell who was mis-firing on most cyclinders because of his "bad mood" - poor chap couldn't manage the ring controls he was so pumped. She took what could have been a liability and turned it into a positive for the mission, sending the hot-head in to use up his energy while she and Daniel secured their position and protected their escape. That ability to read people quickly and adapt to changing situations shows good leadership.

Mitchell's hot-headedness in the rescue mission was the one point at which the B-plot connected with the A-plot, so there was some satisaction there.

Bra'tac was excellent again too. Though I do wonder how much longer that chap has to go... he's had a lot of close calls and he ain't getting any younger.

ChillinTheMost
February 6th, 2006, 06:17 AM
...poor chap couldn't manage the ring controls he was so pumped...
Wasn't it broken? Samantha had to take it apart and play with the crystal thingees to get it to work.

scarimor
February 6th, 2006, 06:36 AM
Wasn't it broken? Samantha had to take it apart and play with the crystal thingees to get it to work.

I don't know whether it was broken - I assumed it had security and he couldn't deal with that. You may be right but either way his 'positive' <g> energy was better directed to mowing down Jaffa than securing their entrance and protecting their retreat, so it was a good call.

Pharaoh Atem
February 6th, 2006, 06:51 AM
the only thing that sticks in my mind about this episode is baal talking abou the ori and how he doesn't want them to control our galaxy.

i liked seeing that side of him and i hope that there make more clones

ChillinTheMost
February 7th, 2006, 08:48 AM
I don't know whether it was broken - I assumed it had security and he couldn't deal with that. You may be right but either way his 'positive' <g> energy was better directed to mowing down Jaffa than securing their entrance and protecting their retreat, so it was a good call.
Ah, I can accept that.

I'm more reacting to some earlier posts that said Mitchell rushed ahead when he wasn't even competent enough to know how to work the rings. We know he knows how to work them since he did in Avalon. Carter having to bypass the security sounds reasonable, though.

I agree with directing his energy properly, too.

DEM
February 7th, 2006, 10:10 AM
All right, so there I am on the bus minding my own business, when suddenly, BLAMMO!

The Medal of Honor is the highest military decoration awarded by the United States. It is awarded "for conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of life, above and beyond the call of duty, in actual combat against an armed enemy force." The Medal of Honor is presented by the President of the United States, who is also the Commander-in-Chief of the US Armed Forces, on behalf of the American people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_Medal_of_Honor

Avalon 1

CARTER: The Congressional Medal of Honor is the highest award for valor in action against an enemy force that can be bestowed upon an individual serving in the Armed Services of the United States of America. On behalf of the President....

Stronghold

FERGUSON: You know, I never did buy that you went down in a test flight.
MITCHELL: Why? That's what happened.

I know the *cough* of the awarding of the MOH was discussed when Avalon aired, but someone wanna take a stab at wanking this new info? :munch popcorn: this oughta be good.

ShardsofGlass
February 7th, 2006, 10:57 AM
No wanking needed. Mitchell was dissembling because the information about what happened at Antartica was classified and Ferguson didn't have clearance. It was obvious that the official story of what happened to Mitchell was that he went down in a test flight. The real reason of why he went down wasn't discussed in this episode.

DEM
February 7th, 2006, 12:29 PM
So he got the MOH for going down in a test flight? Eh?

ShardsofGlass
February 7th, 2006, 12:49 PM
So he got the MOH for going down in a test flight? Eh?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Of course he didn't get the MOH for going down in a test flight. THe test flight is the cover story that the military is using to explain how Mitchell got injured. That's why Ferguson brought it up and why he was skeptical of it. Do you expect them to tell the public that he was injured fighting aliens? No, they make up something else that sounds plausible, which is what the test flight story is.

DEM
February 7th, 2006, 12:54 PM
What is the official reason he got the MOH?

ShardsofGlass
February 7th, 2006, 12:56 PM
What is the official reason he got the MOH?

How should I know? We were never told any official reason on the show. That information was presented as a flashback of Mitchell's from a time when he was barely conscious. That's the only time the MOH was mentioned, ever. And that's the only information we have on it.

PG15
February 7th, 2006, 09:58 PM
He probably got the medal for blashing aliens over Antarctica.

scarimor
February 8th, 2006, 02:13 AM
Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Shardsof Glass, I believe you've missed the point of dem's question. We the audience are of course aware of the real reason Mitchell got his Medal of Honor. And of course we know that the "testflight" story is a cover. The point is that the citation for Mitchell's medal (including the reason it was given, i.e. the cover story) is available to those who have no clearance. His dying friend knows about it, hence his question. But the trouble is that citation does not meet the criteria for the award.

Anyone in the US military (and many others) would immediately smell a rat - like, "Say, you don't get the MoH for crashing a test-flight. What really went down here?"

So the Air Force have either a) left Mitchell open to public criticism that he's got an award he doesn't deserve, or b) jeopardised the security of the SG programme with a cover story you can drive a humvee through.

Do you follow?

warmbeachbrat
February 10th, 2006, 11:24 AM
I was just reading the transcript for the episode and I was rather struck by something. At the end, when Teal'c is trying to comfort Mitchell, Cam asks him how he resists brainwashing..."Figure I might be in that situation one day…and I don’t reckon I’m going through the right of mal sharran."

Now, I find this interesting. With all the jargon and foreign phrases that Cam's been subjected to in his short time with SG-1, he remembers one of great significance to Teal'c. I think this shows, 1) the amount of research that Cam puts into his job, 2) his awareness of the importance of certain terms and events, and 3) his respect for Teal'c--that he would remember the event, the term, and it's impact on Teal'c and want his advice. It seems to me that Mictchell highly respects Teal'c and looks on him as a mentor, but also as a friend, hence his good-natured teasing of Teal'c at other times.

Just something I was thinking...

cafine_us
February 10th, 2006, 12:35 PM
I do see your point, but I also think Mitchell's memory may just be a convenience of the script. Every character, except maybe Jack, can remember everyone's name and random seemingly unimportant facts and use them when needed. Even Jack could remember these details when he wanted to. In real life, most people don't have this good of a memory.

SeaBee
February 15th, 2006, 06:09 PM
Alien Tech left in a hospital? Without a guard? No way!

Too much crammed into this ep.

Lt. Colonel Ryu Gaia
April 28th, 2006, 05:26 PM
UGH, it was discussed quite clearly that this hospital is not a run-of-the-mill place, it's basically where they send all the SGC personell that are severely injured that can't be kept in the SGC infirmary. It has access to off-world technologies and such, and the doctors have clearance. Remember when the doctor mentioned to Mitchell that "he managed to get Fergusson in there, but he didn't get Fergusson clearance?"

the fifth man
April 28th, 2006, 09:27 PM
Oh yeah, the people at that hospital were probably all used to dealing with at least some Stargate-related stuff. So Cam leaving the device with his buddy was no big deal.

valaCB
April 29th, 2006, 12:45 AM
Cam is HOT in this episode :cool: :cameron:

captain jake
May 8th, 2006, 08:12 PM
How many times has teal'c been through torture now?

John W
June 20th, 2006, 02:04 PM
I've just watched this episode on DVD and really loved it. Particularly, I thought that out of all the episodes so far in Season 9, it felt the most like one of the older SG-1 episodes. For example:

1. You've got a Goa'uld torturing Teal'c.
2. You've got a big fire-fight between SG-1 and some bad Jaffa.
3. You've got lots of explosions, mostly caused by gliders and Al'kesh.
4. You've got Bra'tac doing his "He is deceiving you!" routine, which I absolutely love, especially when he calmly says, "Why do you lie to my face?"
5. You've got rings.
6. You've got a single Ha'tak (and it's sitting on a pyramid!).

Anyway, it was a great episode and I always love seeing Baal again. I especially loved the way he finally came out and said, "OK, maybe we did take that whole "Gods" thing a bit too far!"

I don't know about everyone else, but now that Baal's interested in stopping the Ori, it would've been interesting to actually have him become an ally. I mean, maybe not 100% trustworthy, but at least a lot more helpful like in "Reckoning Part 2". I think it would've introduced a good new dynamic as someone who you're never quite sure whether you can trust him or not. I know it probably wouldn't have been an idea everyone would've liked, but I just thought it would've been interesting and another sign of how much things have changed over the course of the series. I mean, it's obvious (especially from my above quote) that neither Baal nor any of the other remaining Goa'uld are really any threat these days nor do they even think they are themselves now the Ori are around. So I guess it's a little disappointing that this episode saw Baal wanting to help, but still doing the "bad guy" routine and torturing/brainwashing Jaffa.

BTW, if anyone replies to this post, please bear in mind I have yet to see any episodes after this one. I know Baal turns up in at least one more episode, but I'd still rather not know anything about what happens. Thanks in advance.

ChillinTheMost
June 21st, 2006, 12:46 PM
I agree about Ba'al. I do believe we had a common enemy and could have teamed up to try to defeat them. It would have been interesting, too. I read somewhere where some people didn't believe Ba'al; that he was using that idea to gain something else. However, I do feel Ba'al was being sincere about working together. Ba'al has plans and they can't work if the Ori get a foothold on Earth or in this galaxy. As for working with Ba'al? I guess we've forgotten the "Keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer" axiom.

Rottie
July 25th, 2006, 05:04 AM
I loved the ground combat on this episode,very big action on the 4 scene.....especially Teal'cs not give up warrior attitude.:tealc:

Admiral Mappalazarou
August 25th, 2006, 05:51 AM
It was great to see a good old fashoined Jaffa rumble outside Baal's base, that was fantastic. But apart from that, this ep didn't really go anywhere. I think it was meant to develop more of Mitchell's character but...

Basically.
1. Teal'c's Kidnapped.
2. Mitchell goes to save him.
3. They both come back.
4. Oh dear, Mitchell's old best buddy dies.
5. The End.

phaeton
September 28th, 2006, 05:27 PM
Interesting ep good to see a Ball lol (pun intended) storyline again.
Great to see Baal trying to takeover the JN this will be great future watching as JN have 2 threats Baal and the Ori.

I feel that Mitchells dying friend bit was unnesscary, just there to fill in time (it was 11.30pm when it started so forgive me for thinking it was unrelated)

I'm glad Landry has the same "leave no one behind" mentality that O'Neill had.
Good to see Bra'tac and Teal'c working together.

Overall 7.75 / 10 (needed more substance)

KRiZ
July 27th, 2007, 09:11 AM
Ive read most of this thread and havent seen this pointed out (some posts were just a bit long to read every one in entireity)

the Haktyl, was superman!! (she was Kal'el)

John W
July 27th, 2007, 01:59 PM
LOL! Yeah, I think someone referred to that in a commentary, either for this episode or another. I think they said that they deliberately moved the apostrophe so it would be slightly different.

Khentkawes
September 7th, 2008, 04:45 PM
I caught the end of this episode on Sci-Fi the other day and Teal'c's last line really struck me as interesting. When Mitchell asks how Teal'c withstood the brainwashing, Teal'c replies:

"To resist the influence of others, knowledge of oneself is most important."

Obviously the line ties in with Mitchell's recent self-reflection, hence Mitchell's reply ("Yeah, I'm working on it"). And Mitchell has already admitted that he is impatient, tends to "lose control," and that he's afraid of screwing up "again." All of that goes a long way to supporting my impression that Mitchell is very aware of his own failings (which is one of many reasons that I like him).

Still, that line wasn't the kind of thing I expected to hear from Teal'c (Oma Desala, yes. Teal'c, no). But I do think it's a nice connection to Threshold from season 5 when Teal'c goes through the right of Malsharan. Most of what we see there is a reexamination of the defining moments in Teal'c's life. Basically, what makes him who he is.

Even apart from the context of Stargate, I just think that line is philosophically interesting. And it certainly made me think. That's one of the reasons I love character-driven episodes like this one... there's always something I notice when I'm re-watching, either something I hadn't noticed before or just something that makes me stop and think.

Anda
September 24th, 2008, 11:56 AM
Its sad how Mitchels friend dies:(:(:(:(:(:(

silly sally
September 24th, 2008, 12:45 PM
Its sad how Mitchels friend dies:(:(:(:(:(:(

It's that he got told about SGC when it was none of his business, yet Jacob wouldn't have ebeen told if they had not needed him for the Tok'ra and he was a Major General Fcol and Sam's father not a mere friend..

Jumper_One
April 22nd, 2009, 05:35 PM
Major D Davis writes: “1. Was the end of stronghold hard to direct cause it had some extremely realistic and intense combat scenes?
. Having directed on all three Stargate shows, Which is your favorite to direct on?
. Which set do you like most, the Atlantis set, the Stargate Command set, or the Destiny set?”

PDL: 1.) My memory of the end of Stronghold was that it was not harder than usual… it was fun actually. 2.) At present my favorite to direct is SGU because of the shooting style. I find it very liberating. 3.) The Destiny set is my favorite. It has many advantages including space, depth, texture, and many practical lights.
http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2009/04/22/april-22-2009-director-peter-deluise-answers-your-questions-another-upcoming-guest-blogger/

suse
April 25th, 2009, 04:02 PM
I caught the end of this episode on Sci-Fi the other day and Teal'c's last line really struck me as interesting. When Mitchell asks how Teal'c withstood the brainwashing, Teal'c replies:

"To resist the influence of others, knowledge of oneself is most important."

Obviously the line ties in with Mitchell's recent self-reflection, hence Mitchell's reply ("Yeah, I'm working on it"). And Mitchell has already admitted that he is impatient, tends to "lose control," and that he's afraid of screwing up "again." All of that goes a long way to supporting my impression that Mitchell is very aware of his own failings (which is one of many reasons that I like him).


And yet there is no point where he acknowledges he screwed up by haring off to save Teal'c because he was "in a bad mood today" dealing with the guilt over his friend's condition.

Even though he wasn't in charge of the mission and was told not to go by the person in charge:
CARTER: If we all go, we could be caught up with no way of getting back off the ship. (beat) You go, we got your back.

She opens the control panel, exposing the crystals within.

MITCHELL: Are you sure about that?

CARTER: (pointedly) Am I going to be able to stop you?

MITCHELL: I don't think so -- I'm in a bad mood today.



Note this is after he:
- runs ahead (without back-up) and against orders
- gets smacked around by a Jaffa :rolleyes: yeah, that helps Teal'c because he didn't have said back-up
-cannot get the rings to work not a shock as he's never seen then before

Yet Sam still lets him go onto a ship type he's never been on before so he can save a team member she's worked with for over 8 years. Sure. Whatever.

His friend tells him he needs to be a little out of control to do what he does. Er, not.

suse

Jimbob041106
May 4th, 2009, 05:19 PM
This episode is awesome.

Supreme Commander Sil
November 1st, 2009, 10:33 AM
:indeed: Very good :D:cool:
BUT :P:
Anyone else notice when bra'tac is flying around the supposedly active Stargate isn't active:P?
WOOOOOOOOOOOPS :D!!!:lol:!!!!

suse
November 1st, 2009, 04:07 PM
There were wayyyyyy more whoops than that.

The writing for one...

Anyone ever tell Cam he's supposed to listen to (and *obey*) the mission leader? Having "a bad day" is no reason to flout orders. Worse, no one calls him on it!

Especially after acknowledging to someone that that has been a problem in the past. :mckay: Way to learn a lesson! <<--- Yep, sarcasm.

SSJPabs
December 20th, 2009, 09:58 PM
With Season 10 all posted and my finals done, I'm re-watching Seasons 9-10 on Hulu. Not to much to say on this episode except that Mitchell was pretty stupid during the battle. Also, at the end regarding the bonding moment that wasn't....

I would have preferred when Teal'c talked about knowing oneself, that Mitchell would have brought up Teal'c doing kelno'reem, something like:

"I heard from Jackson that you do some meditation."

"Indeed, it is kelno'reem. While I do not require it since being free of my symbiote, I find it useful/enjoyable/soothing whatever word."

"I put some people at risk today when I went to rescue you because I was having a tough day. Kelno'reem.... You wanna teach me how to do that?"

There, bonding moment. Also help Mitchell overcoming impulse and impatience.

Tachyon
February 21st, 2010, 09:08 PM
This episode was pretty boring for me. The good: Ba'al was back. The Bad: I've lost interest in Jaffa and their business. *yawns* The Ugly: The story was pretty far from the Stargate concept for me. Sure they tried to give us some depth with the situation of Cam's friend, but I didn't care much about it. After 20 minutes I was already hoping this episode would end.

mrscopterdoc
April 6th, 2010, 09:59 PM
Not on of my top 5 of the season. Kind of a sad episode.

albatross
June 27th, 2010, 02:18 PM
And yet there is no point where he acknowledges he screwed up by haring off to save Teal'c because he was "in a bad mood today" dealing with the guilt over his friend's condition.

Even though he wasn't in charge of the mission and was told not to go by the person in charge:

Note this is after he:
- runs ahead (without back-up) and against orders
- gets smacked around by a Jaffa :rolleyes: yeah, that helps Teal'c because he didn't have said back-up
-cannot get the rings to work not a shock as he's never seen then before

Yet Sam still lets him go onto a ship type he's never been on before so he can save a team member she's worked with for over 8 years. Sure. Whatever.

His friend tells him he needs to be a little out of control to do what he does. Er, not.

suse

But Sam does order him to ring up to the ship - she says "You go, we got your back." The whole running off without backup was impulsive and stupid, but he does follow Sam's order here. Although I think her line is a mistake, she shouldn't have given that order, because it undermines all the work the writers are trying to do making him look impulsive and stupid. Would have been more convincing if he'd been able to ring up before Sam got there.


-cannot get the rings to work not a shock as he's never seen then before

He has seen and used rings before - in Avalon, at least.

maneth
January 10th, 2011, 11:39 AM
Cool episode, even if Cam went a bit off the rails here. I guess one reason why he got away with revealing secret information to his dying friend was that he really was beyond saving. The same thing applies to General Carter, it would have been impossible to save him without telling him about Sam's job. But that was a win-win, since it probably saved Sam and Jacob's relationship as well as Jacob's life, and Earth benefited by having a Tok'ra who was so involved with the US military and retained his contacts there. Getting shot by a zat gun was a good enough reason to let Pete know about the Stargate program, IMO.

mathpiglet
May 13th, 2011, 03:48 PM
This episode was pretty boring for me. The good: Ba'al was back. The Bad: I've lost interest in Jaffa and their business. *yawns* The Ugly: The story was pretty far from the Stargate concept for me. Sure they tried to give us some depth with the situation of Cam's friend, but I didn't care much about it. After 20 minutes I was already hoping this episode would end.

I so agree. When they start about the Jaffa, I want them to hurry up and get up back to the real action.

Jae'a
April 19th, 2012, 02:55 PM
My LiveJournal post (http://jo-r-lee.livejournal.com/49783.html)

hedwig
April 19th, 2012, 03:48 PM
Getting shot by a zat gun was a good enough reason to let Pete know about the Stargate program, IMO.

Wrong episode for this comment. However, Pete would not have been in the infirmary because of a zat blast. He must have been hit by flying debris from the exploding surveillance van. And I heartily disagree that he should be allowed to know about the Stargate program because of his stupidity in crashing a stakeout he had no business being at. He should have gotten in a massive amount of trouble because of it, in spite of dating Sam.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
April 19th, 2012, 04:46 PM
Good episode. I give it a ***. Best visual effects of the Al'kesh ever in the series.

The music at the end of the ep, what episdoe did I hear it in?
I don't think it was a *** episode, maybe **1/2. At the end of Unnatural Selection.

Also, the Gliders during that battle were also kind of unique. I guess it was because they were lower to the ground (and more near people) that other episode. Or may it was the Visual Effects.

Tomorrow, *Tries to think of a non-spoiler description* a new Ori threat threatens the Prometheus.

suse
April 19th, 2012, 05:10 PM
Getting shot by a zat gun was a good enough reason to let Pete know about the Stargate program, IMO.

It wasn't that he was shot by a zat, he had another injury. It was that Pete saw Sarah's eyes glow, saw the hand device at work, was someplace he was not supposed to be.... He wasn't told because of guilt, it was damage control. And he wasn't told much, Sam couldn't talk about stuff with him.

suse
April 19th, 2012, 05:14 PM
With Season 10 all posted and my finals done, I'm re-watching Seasons 9-10 on Hulu. Not to much to say on this episode except that Mitchell was pretty stupid during the battle. Also, at the end regarding the bonding moment that wasn't....

I would have preferred when Teal'c talked about knowing oneself, that Mitchell would have brought up Teal'c doing kelno'reem, something like:

"I heard from Jackson that you do some meditation."

"Indeed, it is kelno'reem. While I do not require it since being free of my symbiote, I find it useful/enjoyable/soothing whatever word."

"I put some people at risk today when I went to rescue you because I was having a tough day. Kelno'reem.... You wanna teach me how to do that?"

There, bonding moment. Also help Mitchell overcoming impulse and impatience.

:lol: Too bad they didn't do just that. <<pain>> See: Off The Grid.

Krisz
April 19th, 2012, 07:13 PM
In a reversal I found myself not liking this episode as much as I did first time round. I remember being surprised by Teal'c ending up as Ba'al's prisoner and that was really the only part of this that I liked. Again we are learning more about Mitchell through the friend dying scenes, which to be honest I think I've had quite enough of for now. I think we know now that Mitchell has a load of emotional baggage and is a bit gung ho! :rolleyes:

The battle to rescue Teal'c was a welcome relief to be honest!

The music playing when Bra'tak mourned the death of the Jaffa council member is a wonderful piece of music, I think I remember first hearing it in 'Redemption' pt 1, when Teal'c lit Dray'uc's funeral pyre, it really adds to the sense of sadness and loss.

Lieutenant Sparrow
April 21st, 2012, 09:06 AM
This was a really good Cam ep imo. He's really starting to become his own character now. Not just a Jack clone.

I felt sorry for him after everything he has been through. Couldn't they have saved his friend with the Goa'uld hand device? They always conveniently forget about that.

The battle to save Teal'c was cool.

jelgate
April 22nd, 2012, 03:40 PM
This was probably a little too soon to do another backstory with Mitchell since Collateral Damage was just two episodes ago. I orginally found myself not caring do to an overdose of Mitchell. I'm not an anti S9 person but I kind of felt that we did not need to learn about his friend who is terminally ill because he saved Cam's life. Too much backstory together. I did say that it was expected that he would need more character episodes then the rest just for the sheer length of the other characters on the show but this was too much. I was much more interested in the Teal'c and Jaffa conspiracy story. I was more interested in seeing what is behind the brainwashing and see Teal'c fight the torture. I remember the first time actually believeing he was brainwashed. I remember fans complaining about the gung ho attiude of Mitchell at climax. I never really agreed with that insight as many of the other main characters have showed a lack of rational thinking in a bout of anger

suse
April 22nd, 2012, 04:30 PM
That would be fine if the bout of anger was about something that had to do with the current situation. He had time to get dressed for the mission and hit the end of the briefing. That's long enough to get the emotions under control. Or at least to rethink that he wouldn't follow orders because he's in a bad mood.

hedwig
April 22nd, 2012, 05:31 PM
This was probably a little too soon to do another backstory with Mitchell since Collateral Damage was just two episodes ago. I orginally found myself not caring do to an overdose of Mitchell. I'm not an anti S9 person but I kind of felt that we did not need to learn about his friend who is terminally ill because he saved Cam's life. Too much backstory together. I did say that it was expected that he would need more character episodes then the rest just for the sheer length of the other characters on the show but this was too much. I was much more interested in the Teal'c and Jaffa conspiracy story. I was more interested in seeing what is behind the brainwashing and see Teal'c fight the torture. I remember the first time actually believeing he was brainwashed. I remember fans complaining about the gung ho attiude of Mitchell at climax. I never really agreed with that insight as many of the other main characters have showed a lack of rational thinking in a bout of anger

His bout of anger really served no purpose. He didn't save Teal'c or do anyone any good in his rush to rescue Teal'c. Teal'c had already rescued himself by turning the staff weapon on Ba'al, killing him. At which point, Mitchell burst into the room - too late to rescue anyone. He also endangered those outside who had come to rescue Teal'c, and then wound up having to be rescued by Sam and Daniel when he was caught by Jaffa while trying to activate the rings.

All in all, I'd say it was one big flop as far as "Cam to the rescue against all odds" just because he was having a bad day. I really, really hope this turned into something of a negative mark on his record, since he was a liability throughout the mission and was too emotionally charged up to have even gone on the mission. A count against Landry for letting him go; although in Landry's defense, Cam didn't really show his anger until he got to the planet and joined in the fight.

I would like to have heard some passing comment about this being a mark on his record, since everyone on all SG teams at one time or another likely wound up with black marks on their records. Sam did. Jack did. Daniel did. I'm sure people on other SG teams did as well. I would like to have seen some sort of fallout from this sort of behavior. You can't let stuff like that go unreported, regardless of whether the other person is someone you like and are friends with.

Matt G
April 25th, 2012, 03:29 AM
So...

1. Another one I sort of knew of...at least the Mitchell side of things, didn't know the other guy's history though.

2. Interesting trick with Ba'al dropping the Goa'uld voice around Teal'c...seems to be an S9 speciality.

3. Jaffa democracy - :).

4. Cam...again...his reactions were flawed but I can relate to the guy.

Not as good as Ripple Effect but certainly a big one.

enibas5
July 29th, 2015, 05:34 AM
The ep. had some nice scenes and the democracy plot in jaffa-land could have been interesting.
BUT with the worst B-plot ever, that took so much ep-time and was soooo unnecessary in the first place, the whole ep. got ruined. I think it was the worst b-plot, I have ever seen on Stargate.
Was this plot supposed to help in character building of Mitchell? Gee, what a waste of time. That guy is not authentic on screen, regardless if he has some baggage to carry or not. You do not get the audience to sympathize with him, if he constantly acts like a 12-year old, suffering from ADHD. This is BB trying to do a character, instead of actually a character that can be liked or disliked, but at the very least comes across as one. He was the wrong choice right from the beginning. Only way out would have been to replace him - but surely not to force the audience to digest all this background stuff. That is a way of making a character even more annoying. Background stories only work, if a character has reached a certain level of acceptance. It is definetly not a way to achieve acceptance.

Anja
October 17th, 2015, 09:16 AM
The ep. had some nice scenes and the democracy plot in jaffa-land could have been interesting.
BUT with the worst B-plot ever, that took so much ep-time and was soooo unnecessary in the first place, the whole ep. got ruined. I think it was the worst b-plot, I have ever seen on Stargate.
Was this plot supposed to help in character building of Mitchell? Gee, what a waste of time. That guy is not authentic on screen, regardless if he has some baggage to carry or not. You do not get the audience to sympathize with him, if he constantly acts like a 12-year old, suffering from ADHD. This is BB trying to do a character, instead of actually a character that can be liked or disliked, but at the very least comes across as one. He was the wrong choice right from the beginning. Only way out would have been to replace him - but surely not to force the audience to digest all this background stuff. That is a way of making a character even more annoying. Background stories only work, if a character has reached a certain level of acceptance. It is definetly not a way to achieve acceptance.

Wow - you really hate Ben Browder, don't you?
To me - and I hope I'm not the only one here - this ep was great. A bit of everything: anger, frustration, loyalty, kidnapping, politics, militarism and a tragic/happy ending with Teal'c and Mitchell.