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chocdoc
January 8th, 2006, 06:15 AM
But wait!

Yes! 'commanding in Landry's absence': I'll go with that. Too bad they didn't SHOW that. (did they?) If I had to keep to the actual scripted events, I would have preferred for the writer to use one of AT's days to show Carter (not Landry) bringing Orlin to the planet, and Daniel delivering the impassioned speech (but not at that Rapid-fire speed that MS seems to have gotten stuck in).


I think they did show this, but someone can correct me. When Teal'c and Garak come through the gate, Sam told all the military to stand down. I think she said, This is Colonel Carter. Stand Down. She clearly was in charge of SGC in the scene while Landry was away.

Taonas
January 8th, 2006, 06:37 AM
I think they did show this, but someone can correct me. When Teal'c and Garak come through the gate, Sam told all the military to stand down. I think she said, This is Colonel Carter. Stand Down. She clearly was in charge of SGC in the scene while Landry was away.
Technically at that point Landry was incapacitated in the infirmary.

Hatusu
January 8th, 2006, 06:44 AM
All the characters seem to have morphed into being able to do anything... Super!SG1 :D
That is so true! The characters are losing their definition, especially Daniel. There could have been an establishing scene with Carter or Lee explaining the device to Dr. Jackson.

And Majorsal is right. I knew something was funny about the conference room scene with General Hammond, but I was so charmed by him that I missed it.

I think something interesting has been noticed here. I believe in this episode the director scheduled the actors on different days, or they were filming scenes at the same time. The actors couldn't be in the same scenes because they were either off work or filming elsewhere. They should realize that the fans can see through these tricks. It makes you pull out of the experience, like the scene where Carter hummed the theme song. I missed the rest of the scene because I'm thinking, "Amanda Tapping is humming the theme song."

I realize that sometimes this has to be done in order to finish filming an episode, but not for unnecessary cameos.

And as for an establishing shot of the plague, they could have easily added one to the news report. They had the time in the episode. It must have been cut for budgetary reasons.

DEM
January 8th, 2006, 06:53 AM
I think they did show this, but someone can correct me. When Teal'c and Garak come through the gate, Sam told all the military to stand down. I think she said, This is Colonel Carter. Stand Down. She clearly was in charge of SGC in the scene while Landry was away.
Ah, yes, thanks. Tho Taonas is technically correct that Landry was back by that time, I can see your point. What keeps me from completely accepting that interpretation is that it took so long for Carter to say anything, as if she was unsure she should be giving them orders -- although I suppose that could have been a fault of subpar editing (i.e., holding too long on the shot of Carter). On the 3rd hand <g>, it was nice the way the guards were all awe-like and respectful when they heard Carter on the PA.

Johnquixote
January 8th, 2006, 07:10 AM
Ah, yes, thanks. Tho Taonas is technically correct that Landry was back by that time, I can see your point. What keeps me from completely accepting that interpretation is that it took so long for Carter to say anything, as if she was unsure she should be giving them orders -- although I suppose that could have been a fault of subpar editing (i.e., holding too long on the shot of Carter). On the 3rd hand <g>, it was nice the way the guards were all awe-like and respectful when they heard Carter on the PA.
The way I saw it, though she trusts Teal'c. Garak is just behind him, and as a prior. She must consider possibilities, and why did Teal'c bring him here. I think any hesitation is completely justified.

As for previous super SG-1 comments. Changing the frequency of a device, really doesn't sound THAT complicated, like a radio I'd think. However, I think in turning the prior to our side, that that would be Danny's strong point. Talking to the prior, explaining about the Ori, being as obnoxious as possible.
I think each member was in his/her right place.
Mitchell- His relationship with the Sodan is obvious for him to go to the prior.
Sam- Though at first it was merely assisting Orlin, she was needed to take command in Landry's absence.
Daniel- Next qualified behind Sam to turn a knob on a remote, needed to talk to Prior.
Teal'c- Obvious.

For all of the negative comments, I think that was the result of the writers trying to cram so much in one episode rather than bad writing or budget.

Dumerris the Cigarette Smoking Prior, gotta love em.

rovex
January 8th, 2006, 07:21 AM
I liked the episode, but it proved that Lexa Doig CANNOT act. I gave her the benefit of the doubt in andromeda because she was supposed to be a spaceship and an android, but hes just as artificial in this!!

Hatusu
January 8th, 2006, 07:28 AM
Dumerris the Cigarette Smoking Prior, gotta love em.
He was great. I also like that scene because it had humor, pathos and threat.

chocdoc
January 8th, 2006, 07:40 AM
Technically at that point Landry was incapacitated in the infirmary.


Ah yes. Thanks for the clarification, Taonas. Carter took command while Landry was in the infirmary. I agree with Dem and others that she needed to hesitate a bit just to make sure that everything was safe. I too liked how the soldiers immediately followed her orders. And Landry being incapacitated provides another reason why Carter needed to stay on base. It would make sense then that Daniel would assist Mitchell.

DEM
January 8th, 2006, 07:45 AM
For all of the negative comments, I think that was the result of the writers trying to cram so much in one episode rather than bad writing
This just comes down to a difference in the usage of terms, then. Cramming too much into an episode (aka 'overplotting') is, to me, bad writing.

I just realised that the justification for Sam staying behind to command the base is backwards. Or at least begging the question. Or perhaps, even, writing for plot over character (or, relatedly, Big Name Actor over Not So Much). Carter (alledgedly) assumed command BECAUSE Landry went to the planet. IOW, Landry going to the planet was the central event. Compare that to "Orlin is escorted to the planet". Those are slightly, yet importantly, different ways to conceive the plot.

Moreover, your explanation implies a script development sequence that went: 1) "If Landry goes to the planet, then who's commanding the SGC?" followed by 2) "Oh, well, er, Carter can do that." Neither of those would address my concern that Carter's role was underdeveloped or simply ill-written: That is, that SHE should have been the one to goto the planet INSTEAD of Landry.

And, again, there was no indication of any scientific assisting going on. In fact, I'm pretty sure that in at least one of those 2 almost entirely redundant scenes Carter asked Orlin if there was something she could do to help and he replied in the negative.

Let's agree to disagree.

USA1290
January 8th, 2006, 08:42 AM
Hello:
I had to work during the SCIFI Friday-:( I did tape it, though. BUT I bought a cheap tape & had some problems during SG-1.

What I wanted to know was When Garak went to the Isolation unit & healed everyone & then died by the fire, i DID hear him say something like I will die free. Was he killed by the ORI or by The ANCIENTS? The sound was bad/dropping/fuzzy for me. I saw them talking in the control room & was'nt sure what had happened
if any could help, I would appreciate it very much!

Thanks,
Stephen:)

jonno
January 8th, 2006, 08:46 AM
wo wo wo!

Your end spoiler tag wasn't right, so the entire spoiler is visible : you need to put a dash in: [/spoiler]

binkpmmc
January 8th, 2006, 08:49 AM
This just comes down to a difference in the usage of terms, then. Cramming too much into an episode (aka 'overplotting') is, to me, bad writing.

I just realised that the justification for Sam staying behind to command the base is backwards. Or at least begging the question. Or perhaps, even, writing for plot over character (or, relatedly, Big Name Actor over Not So Much). Carter (alledgedly) assumed command BECAUSE Landry went to the planet. IOW, Landry going to the planet was the central event. Compare that to "Orlin is escorted to the planet". Those are slightly, yet importantly, different ways to conceive the plot.

Moreover, your explanation implies a script development sequence that went: 1) "If Landry goes to the planet, then who's commanding the SGC?" followed by 2) "Oh, well, er, Carter can do that." Neither of those would address my concern that Carter's role was underdeveloped or simply ill-written: That is, that SHE should have been the one to goto the planet INSTEAD of Landry.

And, again, there was no indication of any scientific assisting going on. In fact, I'm pretty sure that in at least one of those 2 almost entirely redundant scenes Carter asked Orlin if there was something she could do to help and he replied in the negative.

Let's agree to disagree.

All good points Dem and I agree. Another aspect of why this episode felt off all the way through and why it just didn't work on so many levels. Bad writing, and bad editing, people just walking through the motions and characters not being who they have been established to be for the past 8 years.

AGateFan
January 8th, 2006, 08:50 AM
Hello:
I had to work during the SCIFI Friday-:( I did tape it, though. BUT I bought a cheap tape & had some problems during SG-1.

What I wanted to know was When Garak went to the Isolation unit & healed everyone & then died by the fire, i DID hear him say something like I will die free. Was he killed by the ORI or by The ANCIENTS? The sound was bad/dropping/fuzzy for me. I saw them talking in the control room & was'nt sure what had happened
if any could help, I would appreciate it very much!

Thanks,
Stephen:)


No one knows for sure. However Daniel (i think) speculated that the Ori had a fail safe of some type that would kill a prior the overtly went against them... not sure how it would work though, unless the Ori were all seeing, maybe a nanite or something in the staff.

USA1290
January 8th, 2006, 08:50 AM
wo wo wo!

Your end spoiler tag wasn't right, so the entire spoiler is visible : you need to put a dash in: [/spoiler]

Thanks, I tried to read the entire section from the FAQ I clicked the link but the screen just kept freezing. I've written it down ON PAPER in my password book. Old fashioned I know, but it works.:)

jonno
January 8th, 2006, 08:52 AM
Thanks, I tried to read the entire section from the FAQ I clicked the link but the screen just kept freezing. I've written it down ON PAPER in my password book. Old fashioned I know, but it works.:)

lol, no problem! i haven't seen the ep yet, so i can't help with the question.

SaberBlade
January 8th, 2006, 08:53 AM
BIG SPOILERS. Don't Read Unless You Want The End Spoilt

he said, "if i help you i will die <slight pause> but i will die free". second part was said when he started to heal everyone. he didn't die because of the Orii, but what they believe was a failsafe designed to stop priors from turning against them

Pharaoh Atem
January 8th, 2006, 08:57 AM
go here http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=21936

sg1_david
January 8th, 2006, 08:57 AM
like other "part 2" episodes, it sucked compared to part 1. the traditional "quick fix" approach ******* annoys me

AGateFan
January 8th, 2006, 09:02 AM
like other "part 2" episodes, it sucked compared to part 1. the traditional "quick fix" approach ******* annoys me
Yeah, but this was really evident in Atlantis HIVE. Dont get me wrong I didnt dislike the ep but Ford and his sudden and miraculous escape annoyed me. The only way that will not annoy me is if in the future we find out that Ford sold out the team to get his freedom, which would annoy me in its own way but would explain the sudden escape and his stay behind attitude.... Wow, now I think that is what is going on....

Sorry didnt mean to get off on that tangent I was just trying to think of the most overt example of a "out of the blue" quickfix to a situtation... but I think I found a new thread to start. *runs off to Atlantis forum*

Hatusu
January 8th, 2006, 09:03 AM
All good points Dem and I agree. Another aspect of why this episode felt off all the way through and why it just didn't work on so many levels. Bad writing, and bad editing, people just walking through the motions and characters not being who they have been established to be for the past 8 years.
Although I agree on most of these points, I think "bad" is a bit strong. These are things that should be addressed and can easily be fixed, but I still think the show was good overall.

SGalisa
January 8th, 2006, 10:16 AM
I thought the ending for Orlin was very sad. It was almost heart-wrenching watching Sam help Orlin thru his tragic demise. I don't know if anyone else caught this, but here's a short yet *powerful* storyline point that was made:

Of course, there was also a double meaning in what Orlin was doing *and* what he said. He fixed the outside of the puzzle, now Sam can help him put back together the inside. (Symbolically, he was referring to himself.) ;)

Daniel and Cameron Mitchell definitely had some fun sidekicking moments together... :D

But could someone please fill me in on *how* Mitchell was able to go back to the planet where Haikon resides; because the first time he was there, Mitchell was supposedly killed and brought by one of the brothers to a special place for burial. Or was that a secret code between Haikon and the brother (Jolan?) for claiming Mitchell died in front of everyone, but in reality wasn't really dead? Either I missed a detail along the way, or Mitchell's *miraculous* return was to be expected some-how, some-way on that same planet. Unless an Ori tale had been fabricated, Haikon never questioned how Mitchell came back to life... :eek:

SGalisa
January 8th, 2006, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by Dannygirl:
The relationship b/t those (Landry and Lam) two I also thought had a wonderful breakthrough.Tense and short it may have been, but the point was well understood by someone who's experienced it. Better that they get this resolved while her dad is still alive, than to regret it later after he's gone. Where and when could have taken place at a better location with more privacy, but the circumstances and the seriousness of the moment wouldn't permit it.

Yes, she (Dr. Caroline Lam) was angry for what she didn't understand all those years she resented him (for not being home more often), which she now realizes was caused by the nature of his job. Her anger won't go away over night, and that's probably the stage she is grappling with now. The tear from General Landry's eye added to the emotional impact of hearing his daughter finally realize what (super secret info) he's held back against all those years... :(

It was unfortunate that her moment of reconciliation got interrupted by the stargate's alarm, but that alarm also happened for a good reason...! and whether it was because he was the General or her dad, he was the first person she checked on after the *miracle* occurred. :)

Before saying anything else, I usually watch (or read) most fictional stories as if I've never seen or heard of them before. That way, they're always new and rarely boring. Sci-fi cliches simply don't exist in my world. Murphy's Law and proverbial familiar cliches of life exist, but not sci-fi cliches. I've never even heard of that term before signing onto Gateworld in 2005.

So, in countering the so-called predictable factors... ;)

As for Gerak changing sides? I didn't expect it (too naive maybe), tho the editing left it wide open for a potential possibility. I did wonder if Teal'c might return when the gap of time existed for him to end up dead, too. I could only hope Hammond's words for Mitchell, Sam and Daniel to "say hi to Teal'c" weren't spoken in vain.

As for Gerak's return? I wonder. Why did the other Prior burn up in the SGC conference room? It didn't give me the impression that he failed or was killed off. I saw it as a sort of dimensional Ori transportation system -as the ascended Ori are seen as flames in contrast to the ascended ancients viewed as whispy entities of light energy.

Zoser
January 8th, 2006, 11:08 AM
I liked the episode, but it proved that Lexa Doig CANNOT act. I gave her the benefit of the doubt in andromeda because she was supposed to be a spaceship and an android, but hes just as artificial in this!!
While I did not like this episode I have to agree that Lexa Doig is better suited to play an android.

Dana_Jeanne
January 8th, 2006, 11:17 AM
(but not at that Rapid-fire speed that MS seems to have gotten stuck in).

MS said something about this (fast talking) at a con last year. Apparently it's gotten to be a bit of a joke on set to see which writer can write the most words for MS to say in the least amount of time. Apparently Cooper's ahead with all the babble he gave Daniel in... one of the Avalon's.

From watching him in other shows it's pretty obvious that the rapid-fire speech is a Daniel thing; it would be nice if the writers and directors would slow things down a bit so we can understand what the man's saying. I don't find it the least bit funny to "see how fast we can make Shanks blather" when the end result is incomprehensible.

And I still don't know what he said at the end of this episode when Garek caught on fire. My ancient TV doesn't have closed caption on it.

Dana Jeanne

GenHammondsBarber
January 8th, 2006, 12:26 PM
Welcome to my Barershop. Sit down, get your hair trimmed and listen to my review.

This was a excellent episode: 7 out of 8 chevron's encoded.

Overall: The episode included everyone and had some of the best acting I have seen in a stargate episode. I think each member of the team demonstrated why they are useful and a integral part of the team. We learned key things about the Ori, specifically the Priors. All the members of the team finally seem to have accepted and want to be part of SG-1 or the SGC. The ending was good and unexpected.

Specifically:

New openings- You have to love them getting back to basics with the theme and opening. This gives you more of a SG-1 feel and gets you in the mood :).

Mitchell- I felt that he showed a good deal of leadership. I enjoyed the cavalier attitude. To me is showed that he was experienced and calm under pressure. His and Daniel's banter with the prior was great. People have complained, but I remember Jack hitting apophis, Ba'al and many others with one liners and witty banter countless times. I also feel part of the plan was to antagonize the prior and show him that humans could compete with the powers of the Ori if even for a short period of time. Put some doubt in his mind.

Daniel - He took a back seat in this episode which was good since there was nothing to be interpreted and no new culture/myth to be figured out. I liked the banter with Mitchell. Feels to me that they are on the sam page as team mates. This was tough to see early on because Daniel was "joined at the wrist" with Vala.

Teal'c- 1st of all I am standing right now giving Christopher Judge a standing ovation for his performance. By far his best acting and some of the best I have seen in either stargate series. I hope he gets more oppurtunites. 2nd, I loved his interactions with Bra'tac. To me its the 1st time Bra'tac has really gotten the credit he deserves for the Jaffa rebellion. their interactions together are classic.

Jaffa - At times Jaffa centerred stories can be boring, but I enjoyed this. I especially enjoy the possible results of Bra'tac leading the council and the Sodan possibly being more involved. This will spell good things for the Jaffa and more importantly to me allow Teal'c to partiicpate in SG-1 without concerns about his Jaffa brothers since he knows they are in good hands and Bra'tac will keep him aware of what is going on.

The Sodan - I was very happy when Mitchell went to convert the Sodan and realizes they have already defied the Ori. One theme in this episode was 1 person NOT having the answers, NOT having THE solution, and NOT saying the big motivating speech. Total team effort from us and our allies. The Sodan showed that they are what they say they are -- honorable and intelligent. They wanted what the Ori had to offer but were could not embrace them once they found their true nature with their own eyes.

Some people think their switch was too quick. I do not agree with this. It is not as though they have followed the Ori for years. This was a fairly recent.....no very recent conversion to Origin. They then went on a assignment where they were asked to murder innocents..also innocents who were not capable of protecting themselves.....from there they went to another planet that had been rumored to oppose the Ori and found everyone dead. They did their homework, and made a informed decision.

Gerak and the Prior - I put these two together for a reason. I think these two were meant to be contrasted. Both of them are Priors, but have a human life they left behind for the promise of ascension.

Both Gerak and the Prior are confronted with their humanity. Gerak is swayed by his humanity, his family past, and his connection to the brotherhood of Jaffa. The prior was not swayed, but definetly must have been wondering how can the ancients and these humans be competing with the mighty Ori. I think the setting of Gerak's family gravesite....the impending civil war of his Jaffa Brothers tipped the scale and helped Gerak brake from the Ori.

This is a huge piece to the puzzle of beating the Ori. Prior's can be swayed. They can also be stopped.

Hammond- Gotta love Hammond being around. However, I also liked that he seemed to be passing the torch to Landry. He was there for support but did not take over, even when Landry was sick. He didn't even offer any real advice to SG-1...rather he told them he had confidence in them and knew they would get through it.

Sam and Orlin - Not a big fan of this dynamic, but I did like the way it ended. It wasn't a Orlin overcomes and saves the day at all. I was afraid they would do that. Instead he helped out some, and sacrificed it all and ended up giving up everything.

Lam and Landry - I am not a fan of Dr. Lam. However, their scenes together helped me to like and understand landry better. This scene struck me as similar to when Sam's father Jacob Carter wanted to know what she REALLY did for the air force. It was a big secret that she had to hold. I felt like Lam is snotty and a brat but did fianlly gain some insight into her fathers life after not being able to tell her mom what she was doing or what was going on. Still don't like her, but like her dad more and hope the writer's capitalize on this moment to hopefully write better for her and make her more likeable.

The Russians were back. I enjoyed that the international community was brought in and I feel this will be more and more of a plotline throughout the season. It is getting harder and harder for the SGC to cover up these issues. I think it was a scene that is setting up for the future.

Dislikes and Nitpicks:

- The CGI gate in the beginning. Minor Nitpick

- I did not mind them not showing visually how bad the plague had spread, but I was disappointed with the death toll at only 3,000...just didn't seem like the scope was that big in the end.

TameFarrar
January 8th, 2006, 12:44 PM
I have to say I liked parts of the episode and I could have slept through parts of the episode :)

The good stuff :)
I completely enjoyed Mitchell and Jackson bantering as if they hadn't a care in the world once thay had the Prior subdued. I liked first the building of THAT friendship, secondly I liked that they wanted to give the impression that they HAD all the time in the world to the Prior and that came across in the whole scene to me. *We kicked your big bad power butt and now we can laugh at you* was a fine impression to me to give the Prior.

*Teal'c and Gerack scene at the grave site EXCELLENT moment for CJ he came across as a leader to me FINALLY :)

*Mitchell with the Sodan at the beginning. I see his character as a calm man with some serious undertones and I feel BB is portraying that nicely.

*Bra'tak and Teal'c on the ship's bridge another EXCELLENT performance by both and you felt the respect of both characters for the other. Well done by both.

*Wonderful to see Hammond again.... thats all just wonderful to see him :D

now the bad :(
For me Lexa has not found the character of Lam yet and possibly never will. In no way did I even feel she cared one way or the other if Laudry lived or died as long as she got her lines said. I have tried to be fairly open to this character because I was happy that she was coming as I liked Andromeda but for me she just has not conveyed anything across the screen except sheer boredom at even being there and why oh why do I have to say these lines. In no way has she conveyed a professional *Dr Feel* to me nor has she conveyed *The wronged daughter* feel to me. So I have just chalked it up to the fact that I don't believe she has gotten a solid feel for the character as of yet.

*Sam and Orlin - Yawn Yawn Yawn this was by far the most boring part of the episode for me. By the second time they came on scene I was getting up to re-fill my coffee. I love Sam and that character to pieces and love to see her in the middle of everything but this was a yawn-fest for me. The actor playing Orlin...well I guess I just never warmed up to him AS Orlin so it was never believable to me and I just felt like it was a kid on the set palying around reading someone else's lines. At no time did I feel any sympathy or any doom and gloom that was looming for this character. In fact I could not wait for his part to end.

** The plot holes**
* Why no reaction to Mitchell still being alive??
* How did the Prior get powers his powers back in the end?? And STILL be shot??
** How is that Lam can be the Dr for a ALIEN facilty but NOT expect them to want to TALK to the Aliens (no not this episode but that bugs me constantly :))

Overall I liked the episode and am happy. But I wish TPTB would figure out that some of us are tired of watching them give us minute detail of the most mudane of things and absolutely nothing when it comes to the *meat* of the characters moments. They always seem to fade to black for those. I would love to seem the writers put a bit more pressure on themselves to come up with some GOOD DRAMA and fade to black on a few of the comedic moments from time to time :)

LORD MONK
January 8th, 2006, 01:36 PM
I personally think they need to stop grabing Sci-Fi actors. They all act the same. (to me anyways) Lets face it they have Vala running around in pig tails. When I look at her I am not thinking about Stargate I can tell you that. Mith is coming around though. This last ep. I realy liked. Esp. when he acted like the staff was leaving his hands.
And when I say Sci-Fi I mean the Sci-Fi Network not all Sci-Fi. It's like one big party over there. I wanted to tell Vala and the new nurse to drop the smile your supposed to be suriuos right now.

Fargater
January 8th, 2006, 01:40 PM
"No, you're a Darkside intergalactic encyclopedia salesman only the office managers haven't been quite upfront with you." -Mitchell
I loved this line, one of my favorite parts of the ep. I'm thinking about making a sig with Dumerris the Prior smiling, with a hello my name is Dumerris sticker and a employee of the month pin. And next to it would be the book of Origin with the title Darkside Intergalactic Encyclopedia. Gotta get a screen cap first.
ROFLMAO!!!

That would be SO funny! Looking forward to seeing that.

I loved that line too.

Frell, People, it took me like three hours to read the thread yesterday, was alternately going, "AMEN!" and then "Hmmmm. . . " and then "I didn`t see thus-and-such that way." . . . . Watched it again last night, popped in and now you have three more pages for me to read. LOL


Just one thing, not sure if anyone else commented in the next three pages, but as for Dumerris(sp) getting his powers back, my first thought was that maybe he moved away from the thingy in the ground. Cam or Daniel had said earlier they weren`t sure what the range of the device was, so I wondered if maybe he`d moved out of range and sensed that his powers had come back. But watching it the second time I didn`t see him move. Everyone else was walking back and forth, but he didn`t really move. Unless he`d moved from the original spot where he lost the power but they didn`t show us that he`d moved. Anyways it didn`t look like he`d moved out of range. So my next thought was maybe it had something to do with Orlin. It was after Orlin came and got fairly close to him that he got the powers back. Maybe Orlin shorted out the device somehow (unbeknownst to him).

And maybe it`s just a huge plot hole and the writers are reading people`s theories about it to see what kinds of explanations we come up with. :jack_new_anime06:

LORD MONK
January 8th, 2006, 01:41 PM
I have to say I liked parts of the episode and I could have slept through parts of the episode :)

The good stuff :)
I completely enjoyed Mitchell and Jackson bantering as if they hadn't a care in the world once thay had the Prior subdued. I liked first the building of THAT friendship, secondly I liked that they wanted to give the impression that they HAD all the time in the world to the Prior and that came across in the whole scene to me. *We kicked your big bad power butt and now we can laugh at you* was a fine impression to me to give the Prior.

*Teal'c and Gerack scene at the grave site EXCELLENT moment for CJ he came across as a leader to me FINALLY :)

*Mitchell with the Sodan at the beginning. I see his character as a calm man with some serious undertones and I feel BB is portraying that nicely.

*Bra'tak and Teal'c on the ship's bridge another EXCELLENT performance by both and you felt the respect of both characters for the other. Well done by both.

*Wonderful to see Hammond again.... thats all just wonderful to see him :D

now the bad :(
For me Lexa has not found the character of Lam yet and possibly never will. In no way did I even feel she cared one way or the other if Laudry lived or died as long as she got her lines said. I have tried to be fairly open to this character because I was happy that she was coming as I liked Andromeda but for me she just has not conveyed anything across the screen except sheer boredom at even being there and why oh why do I have to say these lines. In no way has she conveyed a professional *Dr Feel* to me nor has she conveyed *The wronged daughter* feel to me. So I have just chalked it up to the fact that I don't believe she has gotten a solid feel for the character as of yet.

*Sam and Orlin - Yawn Yawn Yawn this was by far the most boring part of the episode for me. By the second time they came on scene I was getting up to re-fill my coffee. I love Sam and that character to pieces and love to see her in the middle of everything but this was a yawn-fest for me. The actor playing Orlin...well I guess I just never warmed up to him AS Orlin so it was never believable to me and I just felt like it was a kid on the set palying around reading someone else's lines. At no time did I feel any sympathy or any doom and gloom that was looming for this character. In fact I could not wait for his part to end.

** The plot holes**
* Why no reaction to Mitchell still being alive??
* How did the Prior get powers his powers back in the end?? And STILL be shot??
** How is that Lam can be the Dr for a ALIEN facilty but NOT expect them to want to TALK to the Aliens (no not this episode but that bugs me constantly :))

Overall I liked the episode and am happy. But I wish TPTB would figure out that some of us are tired of watching them give us minute detail of the most mudane of things and absolutely nothing when it comes to the *meat* of the characters moments. They always seem to fade to black for those. I would love to seem the writers put a bit more pressure on themselves to come up with some GOOD DRAMA and fade to black on a few of the comedic moments from time to time :)
For your plot holes.

1. You would assume that the other guy goes back and tells them everything about Mitch beong alive.
2. One of the Soldiers shouted out that the Prior has overcome the device. Thats when he grabs Land. Then everyone shots him.
3 I didn't understand the last one with the hole DR and Alien thing. What ep. was that.

I now people can't stand thehole assume thing.

KillerMercury
January 8th, 2006, 01:48 PM
Great episode, considering I've been waiting for months for a new episode.

Opening sequence
Except for the totally obvious CGI Gate, I have to say it's one of the best series openings I've ever seen. The transitions and that whole glassy feel over the clips are great. I literally had chills going through my body.

Cameron Mitchell and Daniel Jackson
It's cool to see how these two have such great banter even though it's only been the 11th episode of the season. It shows how Daniel has developed a lot of humor over the years and how he can just go back and forth with Cam.

Sam Carter and Orlin
Felt bad for Orlin on how he ended up. I felt that Sam was just...there.

Teal'c, Bra'tac and Gerak
I like how the Gerak arc ended. The way Teal'c handled the situation was outstanding, and hopefully Bra'tac really would become the new leader of the High Council.

Landry and Lam
Something that I've been waiting for since I found out that they had some sort of relationship with each other. And, awwww, he cried! Hint to the writers: explore it more, please!

Walter
He never fails to deliver.

OVERALL 8/10:zelenka25:

Dani347
January 8th, 2006, 01:56 PM
Yes, Brata'c should become the leader. That's the only sensible choice.

LORD MONK
January 8th, 2006, 01:59 PM
Not only should he become the leader but it's about time.

Fargater
January 8th, 2006, 02:02 PM
MS said something about this (fast talking) at a con last year. Apparently it's gotten to be a bit of a joke on set to see which writer can write the most words for MS to say in the least amount of time. Apparently Cooper's ahead with all the babble he gave Daniel in... one of the Avalon's.
Really? That`s kind of funny. I`m still pretty new to SG so don`t know those sorts of backstories.


From watching him in other shows it's pretty obvious that the rapid-fire speech is a Daniel thing; it would be nice if the writers and directors would slow things down a bit so we can understand what the man's saying. I don't find it the least bit funny to "see how fast we can make Shanks blather" when the end result is incomprehensible.
Yeah, I guess. I can usually understand him though, if not at first. Somehow my brain absorbs it on a time delay or something. Kind of like that Boomhower(sp) guy on King of the Hill.

I like DanielSpeak. It is to me a charming trait. I like people who get so impassioned or excited about what they`re doing that they talk very fast. :)


And I still don't know what he said at the end of this episode when Garek caught on fire. My ancient TV doesn't have closed caption on it.

Dana Jeanne

Ah, well, I can help you there. When I rewatched it I reran that bit several times to make sure I copied what they said correctly. And there`s STILL one or two words I can`t quite catch, but I got most of it.

CAM: What the hell just happened?

SAM: I thought the Ori weren`t able to take action in this galaxy without inciting the Ancients.

DANIEL: It must have been some physiological failsafe they put in place when they made him a Prior. In the event [they`ve? he`d`ve?] returned.

The bracketed words are the ones I couldn`t make out. Sometimes it really sounded like one and other times the other.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And now I`m thinking about that other Prior that went up in flames in the SGC. I always thought he just left, and that was his flamboyant ;) way of doing it. But if Sam is right about "inciting" the Ancients as per above quote, did that mean they fried that guy when he came to SGC? Now I`m confused. Did I miss some explanation somewhere?

LORD MONK
January 8th, 2006, 02:06 PM
Really? That`s kind of funny. I`m still pretty new to SG so don`t know those sorts of backstories.


Yeah, I guess. I can usually understand him though, if not at first. Somehow my brain absorbs it on a time delay or something. Kind of like that Boomhower(sp) guy on King of the Hill.

I like DanielSpeak. It is to me a charming trait. I like people who get so impassioned or excited about what they`re doing that they talk very fast. :)



Ah, well, I can help you there. When I rewatched it I reran that bit several times to make sure I copied what they said correctly. And there`s STILL one or two words I can`t quite catch, but I got most of it.

CAM: What the hell just happened?

SAM: I thought the Ori weren`t able to take action in this galaxy without inciting the Ancients.

DANIEL: It must have been some physiological failsafe they put in place when they made him a Prior. In the event [they`ve? he`d`ve?] returned.

The bracketed words are the ones I couldn`t make out. Sometimes it really sounded like one and other times the other.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And now I`m thinking about that other Prior that went up in flames in the SGC. I always thought he just left, and that was his flamboyant ;) way of doing it. But if Sam is right about "inciting" the Ancients as per above quote, did that mean they fried that guy when he came to SGC? Now I`m confused. Did I miss some explanation somewhere?
But then why did the first Prior go up in fire?

Dani347
January 8th, 2006, 02:10 PM
I like DanielSpeak. It is to me a charming trait. I like people who get so impassioned or excited about what they`re doing that they talk very fast. :)



I like it too, but it would be more of a character trait if he did it onlywhen he was impassioned or excited.

Fargater
January 8th, 2006, 02:11 PM
But then why did the first Prior go up in fire?
Yes, that`s the question I`m asking.

:shrug: :headscratch:

PG15
January 8th, 2006, 02:12 PM
I guess because his job was done, he had to leave.

A fiery death is not only for when they betray the Ori.

Fargater
January 8th, 2006, 02:14 PM
I like it too, but it would be more of a character trait if he did it onlywhen he was impassioned or excited.
True. I guess for the most part I think he does use it at those times. But I guess now you`ve got me thinking about it more there are other times when he`s a motormouth.

TameFarrar
January 8th, 2006, 02:14 PM
For your plot holes.

1. You would assume that the other guy goes back and tells them everything about Mitch beong alive. I know we can *assume* alot of stuff but this is something that the writers should have touched on....it was a big thing :)


2. One of the Soldiers shouted out that the Prior has overcome the device. Thats when he grabs Land. Then everyone shots him. I realize there was a ruckus AFTER the Prior started pulling Landry towards him my question is HOW did the Prior get his power back in the first place and IF he had his powers HOW were they able to shoot him??
I know one person stated something about him possibly moving away from the device on the ground....Well I KNOW they had already moved the device up onto a stump before the Prior woke up so that isn't it AND the Prior had not moved from the position he was stnding in so what was the reasoning...was it the verses he was quoting from the Book of Origin or was that some sort of power chant?? Who knows?? TPTB failed to give us any clues. :)


3 I didn't understand the last one with the hole DR and Alien thing. What ep. was that. This was from the episode where Mitchell first met teh Shodan and he was there learning to fight and the Shodan that was shot was at the SGC ( I don't remember the Eppy name) After Dr Lam spent 9 hours in surgery she is sitting at teh Shodan's bedside and seems completely disgusted that Landry expects to question him on the whereabouts of Mitchell and that she didn't save his life JUST so he could be questioned by these big bad SGC people.... it just strikes me as a very odd reaction. Although since I am not to impressed with how this character has been played so far it could have just been very poor acting.


I now people can't stand thehole assume thing.
Actually I don't mind assuming the little things and I don't need TPTB to spell everything out BUT it is getting tiresome that they really are taking GIANT leaps with the fans faith in things and really getting unbelievable with the plotholes while still spending way to much time IMHO explaining minutia

LORD MONK
January 8th, 2006, 02:23 PM
I know we can *assume* alot of stuff but this is something that the writers should have touched on....it was a big thing :)
I realize there was a ruckus AFTER the Prior started pulling Landry towards him my question is HOW did the Prior get his power back in the first place and IF he had his powers HOW were they able to shoot him??
I know one person stated something about him possibly moving away from the device on the ground....Well I KNOW they had already moved the device up onto a stump before the Prior woke up so that isn't it AND the Prior had not moved from the position he was stnding in so what was the reasoning...was it the verses he was quoting from the Book of Origin or was that some sort of power chant?? Who knows?? TPTB failed to give us any clues. :)
This was from the episode where Mitchell first met teh Shodan and he was there learning to fight and the Shodan that was shot was at the SGC ( I don't remember the Eppy name) After Dr Lam spent 9 hours in surgery she is sitting at teh Shodan's bedside and seems completely disgusted that Landry expects to question him on the whereabouts of Mitchell and that she didn't save his life JUST so he could be questioned by these big bad SGC people.... it just strikes me as a very odd reaction. Although since I am not to impressed with how this character has been played so far it could have just been very poor acting.

Actually I don't mind assuming the little things and I don't need TPTB to spell everything out BUT it is getting tiresome that they really are taking GIANT leaps with the fans faith in things and really getting unbelievable with the plotholes while still spending way to much time IMHO explaining minutia
The Prior overcame the device. The device just makes it so the prior can't use the part of the brain that controls his power. It confuses him. Well he overcame it and can use his powers again. Just like the soldier sad. "He has overcome the device" The writers don't have enough time to explain every little detail. And not just that but it would make it boring if everything was spelled out for us. You know the Sudan know about Mitch being alive because a Sudan member has seen him alive.

About the other part I am with you on that.

Fargater
January 8th, 2006, 02:54 PM
Welcome to my Barershop. Sit down, get your hair trimmed and listen to my review.

This was a excellent episode: 7 out of 8 chevron's encoded.


Overall: The episode included everyone and had some of the best acting I have seen in a stargate episode. I think each member of the team demonstrated why they are useful and a integral part of the team. We learned key things about the Ori, specifically the Priors. All the members of the team finally seem to have accepted and want to be part of SG-1 or the SGC. The ending was good and unexpected.


Specifically:

New openings- You have to love them getting back to basics with the theme and opening. This gives you more of a SG-1 feel and gets you in the mood :).
AMEN!!!


Mitchell- I felt that he showed a good deal of leadership. I enjoyed the cavalier attitude. To me is showed that he was experienced and calm under pressure. His and Daniel's banter with the prior was great. People have complained, but I remember Jack hitting apophis, Ba'al and many others with one liners and witty banter countless times. I also feel part of the plan was to antagonize the prior and show him that humans could compete with the powers of the Ori if even for a short period of time. Put some doubt in his mind.
I SO agree with this. You pretty much expressed what I was thinking only better than I could.

I would add to this that someone said Daniel should have been the one talking to the Prior in the manner Landry did when he came, and that banter wasn`t really Daniel`s way. To which I`d generally agree except I saw the banter as part of their plan (as others like you have said). Daniel did get in a bit of reasoning with him, but it was different from his measured eloquence in that previous ep. He`s more sarcastic this time, whether because it`s Cam`s influence or a general shift in Daniel`s attitude in how to deal with the absurdity/evil of the Ori.


Daniel - He took a back seat in this episode which was good since there was nothing to be interpreted and no new culture/myth to be figured out. I liked the banter with Mitchell. Feels to me that they are on the sam page as team mates. This was tough to see early on because Daniel was "joined at the wrist" with Vala.
AMEN. He had things to do, was there and part of it all, but as a part of the whole.


Teal'c- 1st of all I am standing right now giving Christopher Judge a standing ovation for his performance. By far his best acting and some of the best I have seen in either stargate series. I hope he gets more oppurtunites. 2nd, I loved his interactions with Bra'tac. To me its the 1st time Bra'tac has really gotten the credit he deserves for the Jaffa rebellion. their interactions together are classic.
AMEN again.


Jaffa - At times Jaffa centerred stories can be boring, but I enjoyed this. I especially enjoy the possible results of Bra'tac leading the council and the Sodan possibly being more involved. This will spell good things for the Jaffa and more importantly to me allow Teal'c to partiicpate in SG-1 without concerns about his Jaffa brothers since he knows they are in good hands and Bra'tac will keep him aware of what is going on.
Yes! And now I`m looking forward to the Sodan meeting the Jaffa.


The Sodan - I was very happy when Mitchell went to convert the Sodan and realizes they have already defied the Ori. One theme in this episode was 1 person NOT having the answers, NOT having THE solution, and NOT saying the big motivating speech. Total team effort from us and our allies. The Sodan showed that they are what they say they are -- honorable and intelligent. They wanted what the Ori had to offer but were could not embrace them once they found their true nature with their own eyes.

Some people think their switch was too quick. I do not agree with this. It is not as though they have followed the Ori for years. This was a fairly recent.....no very recent conversion to Origin. They then went on a assignment where they were asked to murder innocents..also innocents who were not capable of protecting themselves.....from there they went to another planet that had been rumored to oppose the Ori and found everyone dead. They did their homework, and made a informed decision.
AMEN!!! I thought the Sodan conversion was logical and plausible. I`d have been disappointed if they didn`t see through the Ori on that mission. It would have made them seem stupid. This way is good. It advances the relationship to the next stage of alliance with Earth and the Jaffa.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Will put in a Cam comment here, sort of fits the Sodan thing. Re. the cap, I notice he wears it backwards when he`s not serious or worried. It`s sort of like a horse`s ears letting you know if they`re relaxed or not. He turned it frontward when Jolan came to get him to go see Haikon.

Also, some people were wondering why there wasn`t more about the Sodan reacting to seeing Cam alive. Well they dropped a few lines here and there, and I figured it was one of those things you just had to know happened but wasn`t as important as the rest of what they wanted to show us, so we just had to figure it out. When Jolan comes to the room, he says something like, "It was foolish of you to come. . . . The others are mistrustful." Cam says, "Yeah, I kinda got that." So Jolan probably took a lot of off-camera heat about duping his brethren that way, but in hindsight Haikon for one is probably glad they didn`t kill him and the rest will follow his lead. I figured Cam and Daniel were in that room not so much to be held as to keep them out of sight until Haikon could meet with them. Less trouble that way.




Gerak and the Prior - I put these two together for a reason. I think these two were meant to be contrasted. Both of them are Priors, but have a human life they left behind for the promise of ascension.

Both Gerak and the Prior are confronted with their humanity. Gerak is swayed by his humanity, his family past, and his connection to the brotherhood of Jaffa. The prior was not swayed, but definetly must have been wondering how can the ancients and these humans be competing with the mighty Ori. I think the setting of Gerak's family gravesite....the impending civil war of his Jaffa Brothers tipped the scale and helped Gerak brake from the Ori.

This is a huge piece to the puzzle of beating the Ori. Prior's can be swayed. They can also be stopped.
This was enjoyable to read.


Hammond- Gotta love Hammond being around. However, I also liked that he seemed to be passing the torch to Landry. He was there for support but did not take over, even when Landry was sick. He didn't even offer any real advice to SG-1...rather he told them he had confidence in them and knew they would get through it.
I guess, but I don`t want Hammond to ever pass the torch. People keep saying things like that and it makes me think they know something like Don S. Davis said he doesn`t want to ever come back or something. Maybe I`m not understanding and you all mean it`s another way of the old guard passing it on to the new cast. Okay, that I can deal with. but he still better show up now and then.


Sam and Orlin - Not a big fan of this dynamic, but I did like the way it ended. It wasn't a Orlin overcomes and saves the day at all. I was afraid they would do that. Instead he helped out some, and sacrificed it all and ended up giving up everything.
Yeah, that was good.

Also want to comment on Orlin. A lot of people were busting on Bright`s performance. Sean Patrick Flanery was pretty monotone too, and I just imagined he was going for the same softspoken demeanor. I thought it was an "Ascended/Ancient" thing to talk that way. I mean, really, if you`ve been acsended, what else is there really to make you talk loud for? His monotone didn`t really bother me when he was in SGC, but the Prior blew him away IMO when they did that scene together. But then maybe that was meant to show contrast in their natures also, the crazed Prior versus the calm Ancient.


Lam and Landry - I am not a fan of Dr. Lam. However, their scenes together helped me to like and understand landry better. This scene struck me as similar to when Sam's father Jacob Carter wanted to know what she REALLY did for the air force. It was a big secret that she had to hold. I felt like Lam is snotty and a brat but did fianlly gain some insight into her fathers life after not being able to tell her mom what she was doing or what was going on. Still don't like her, but like her dad more and hope the writer's capitalize on this moment to hopefully write better for her and make her more likeable.
I agree, I guess, except I already liked Landry. Interesting parallel between them and Sam/Jacob. It didn`t bother me as much the second time but it was downright shocking to me that she could talk to him that way when I first saw it. Maybe it`s like that other person said though about her not really having much time to get it all out.


The Russians were back. I enjoyed that the international community was brought in and I feel this will be more and more of a plotline throughout the season. It is getting harder and harder for the SGC to cover up these issues. I think it was a scene that is setting up for the future.
Yeah.

Oh, and BTW, did anyone else think that blond guy (French?) looked like Langley(sp) from the X-Files? I kept thinking, "It`s a Lone Gunman!" And they kept putting the camera on him or shooting right past his face, kept drawing my attention to him.


Dislikes and Nitpicks:

- The CGI gate in the beginning. Minor Nitpick

- I did not mind them not showing visually how bad the plague had spread, but I was disappointed with the death toll at only 3,000...just didn't seem like the scope was that big in the end.
Yeah, I didn`t mind the no visuals on the plague thing either.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Crap, gotta run now.

FireCat
January 8th, 2006, 03:26 PM
I liked the new opening credits.

Scenes with Teal'c, Gerak, and Bra'tac were marvelous and totally made the show!

Really got a grasp on Mitchell finally. He's hot, funny, knows his stuff. Keep him. :vala:

Touching closing with Orlin and Sam.

This whole episode worked for me, and I found it quite enjoyable. I didn't even miss Jack. ;)

creed462
January 8th, 2006, 04:08 PM
It was good, I liked how Gerak ended, he reclaimed his honor, Sad but good

Vicious
January 8th, 2006, 04:23 PM
Great episode imho.

2 sad words to sum it up...

Puzzle pieces.

Eoin
January 8th, 2006, 04:31 PM
Great episode imho.

2 sad words to sum it up...

Puzzle pieces.
Excellent ep imo :D

I especially like what danny said about the ancients at the end (that they might do something :D)

GenHammondsBarber
January 8th, 2006, 04:34 PM
Hi FarGater

Yeah, my interpretation of my "passing the torch" comment is definetly a passing off to the new guard more so then him passing it on because he is leaving forever.

I think he will continue to be on the show but keep a close eye on the team and the SGC. Lend a helping hand on occassion--perhaps with the new international problems the SGC might have, his role may be to look out for them politically.

:hammondanime03: The red phone is his Forever! :)

SophieTucker
January 8th, 2006, 04:50 PM
How did Orlin know the Prior's name and his family. He acted as if he remembered him but the Ancient's left the Ori galaxy before the prior was born didn't they?

Does this mean that the Ancients "know" every living person in the galaxy? If that is so - why didn't Orlin know who Sam was the first time he followed her home?

NakedJehutyV2
January 8th, 2006, 05:28 PM
well it wasn't the alterransthey wouldn't interfere especially when they don't need to.

i doubt the ori could come here and kill him. the alterrans would open a can of ownage.


ima go with daniel's thought that it's a failsafe put into priors

Johnquixote
January 8th, 2006, 05:44 PM
If you look close the tip of the staff is the first thing to burn, I think it does have something to do with the staff. The guy in Origin summoned his staff before burning himself

Shkelton
January 8th, 2006, 05:46 PM
Nice failsafe!

NakedJehutyV2
January 8th, 2006, 06:15 PM
yes

Johnquixote
January 8th, 2006, 06:27 PM
The Anti Prior device, how Dumerris overcame it.

If you rewatch the ep, when Mitchell/Daniel are explaining the device to the Sodan, they say Temporarily remove his powers. I hadn't heard this at first either, but I rewatched it yet again and noticed it. Then there was the military guy who yelled, "he's overcome the device". Apparently the device has a certain lifespan, or eventually the Prior can focus through the mental block, or change his frequency all together.

NakedJehutyV2
January 8th, 2006, 06:38 PM
the idea was to turn off his powers then kill him but they took too long

AGateFan
January 8th, 2006, 06:39 PM
I thought they wanted to turn off his powers and convince him to change sides. I thought that idea came up after Orlin indicated that the priors were not complicit in part 1.

LORD MONK
January 8th, 2006, 07:13 PM
No, it was to turn off his powers to extract blood from him. Then tell him how he is wrong send him on his way.

SGalisa
January 8th, 2006, 07:50 PM
yeah, the device was there mostly to get the blood sample from the Prior (which I think Orlin dropped and broke the vial or vials in a later scene? well, {I thought} there goes the blood samples...! so much for that idea.) :eek:


Originally posted by SGalisa:
But could someone please fill me in on *how* Mitchell was able to go back to the planet where Haikon resides; because the first time he was there, Mitchell was supposedly killed and brought by one of the brothers to a special place for burial...

Originally posted by Fargater:
...we just had to figure it out. When Jolan comes to the room, he says something like, "It was foolish of you to come. . . . The others are mistrustful." Cam says, "Yeah, I kinda got that." So Jolan probably took a lot of off-camera heat about duping his brethren that way, but in hindsight Haikon for one is probably glad they didn`t kill him and the rest will follow his lead. I figured Cam and Daniel were in that room not so much to be held as to keep them out of sight until Haikon could meet with them. Less trouble that way.thanks! a *thinking* (think-about-it) detail. an interesting explanation... :)


Originally posted by TameFarrar:
* How did the Prior get powers his powers back in the end?? And STILL be shot??
...
I know one person stated something about him possibly moving away from the device on the ground....Well I KNOW they had already moved the device up onto a stump before the Prior woke up so that isn't it AND the Prior had not moved from the position he was stnding in so what was the reasoning...was it the verses he was quoting from the Book of Origin or was that some sort of power chant??When I saw the scene begin, I saw the SGC guy messing with the device on the stump. I thought he was deliberately sabotaging it at that point, not simply holding it or hoping it would still work after the Prior got up.

Even if the SGC guy was merely holding it, he did touch a few parts of the device which might have manually disrupted the settings and reset the frequency so that the Prior could use some of his powers, but still get shot at.

Oooo! can't find the exact quote in this topic, but...
when Dr. Lam mentioned that Daniel and Cam didn't get infected, but I thought someone here mentioned that Daniel touched Landry after the Prior was choking Landry, and Daniel should have gotten infected too... (this was not an oversight or plot-hole... just a mysterious detail) ;)

hmmm...maybe it has something to do with Daniel's ascensions, or the time when the Prior tried to burn him and Vala to death (Daniel has developed an immunity somehow). Daniel wasn't affected before when Mitchell became ill on that planet where Vala was being put on trial as a Goa'uld.

I thought if anything, Daniel should have been affected in that episode, especially considering his insightful speeches to the Prior visiting that particular planet. But neither him, nor Vala were infected; which made me wonder if it had something to do with when they first met the Priors and Ori during "Avalon" and "Origin". An immunity resistance gene for both of them! :D

jemts
January 8th, 2006, 08:00 PM
There is one thing I don't get that maybe you all can shed some light on for me. I know the reason they cast the kid to paly Orling but I really don't like the explanation they give on the show. It doesn't make sense to me.

Orlin comes back as a kid so he can retain the memories better. But last time he came back he wasn't a kid and still had tons of memories of the ancients. He knew how to build a stargate.

The other thing that just didn't make sense with me is that when he decended can't he choose what level of evolution to descend to. So he could decend to a being on the verge of ascending. So he would be extremely powerful with all that cool mind reading and telekenetics we saw in Prototype. This way he would be incredbily powerful and stand more of a chance in confronting the priors if needed. Also in this state he would be able to ascend again if he wanted to since he would be at the right evolutionary state.

What do you think?
Am I just way off base?

LORD MONK
January 8th, 2006, 08:28 PM
The Ancients were more on to him this time. Like he said, he can remember being aciended but he couldn't remember.....what ever we was doing. That would also explain why he choosed the level that he did. He's already on pins and needles as is.

But that's just what I thing.

IMForeman
January 8th, 2006, 11:09 PM
God, but it was good to see General Hammond in a few scenes. I miss him.

Wyrminarrd
January 8th, 2006, 11:49 PM
All around great episode! Way better then the stuff we´ve been getting in the second half of season 2 of Atlantis.

There are simply to many good things to talk about that I don´t know were to begin so let´s start with giving my idea for how the prior over came the device. I think Daniel (or Mitchell) said that it worked by confusing the prior and keeping him from concentrating enough to use his powers. When the prior was confronted with an ancient (which must be like a demon or satan in his religion) his hatred gave him the focus needed to overcome the device. So in short, they pushed the prior to hard.

They also finally stated why Teal´C was back with SG-1. This had been slightly bothering me and it´s good to know what he is thinking. It´s perhaps not the greatest reason in the world but for people used to live for a very long time (Teal´C is over a hundred right?) it may not seem like a big deal to spend a year or three on something like this.

Loved the interaction between Mitchell and Daniel, showed that they get along great. Hope to see more of this in coming episodes. I know it´s not Daniels usual style but he handled it very well and it clearly irritated the prior :daniel:

Hope the rest of the season will be this good.

Skythe
January 9th, 2006, 12:54 AM
haha, maybe the device ran out of batteries, and that was why the prior gained his powers back. Shouldn't have used AAA batteries..

leaper
January 9th, 2006, 01:22 AM
haha, maybe the device ran out of batteries, and that was why the prior gained his powers back. Shouldn't have used AAA batteries..

It wasn't the size of the batteries..it was the brand..should have gone with Duracell...

wikeja
January 9th, 2006, 02:15 AM
Who thinks...
spoiler*
...Gerak's death a bit sudden considering the end of "Horseman 1"?

I'm a bit perplexed!

Ascended Times.2
January 9th, 2006, 02:21 AM
No,

He had it comin' to him! The bloody b*******

cjp_24
January 9th, 2006, 03:26 AM
Not a good episode.
How come the Ori dude got his powers back and didn’t just grab his staff and start wasting people. Oh yea, that would require an explanation. As far as I can tell Stargate doesn’t do explanations anymore.

I did wonder this one. But they did say to the prior that the device stops him from focusing and concentrating on his powers. I guess really it was just a matter of time for him to force his mind to focus to get a little bit of his powers back, also he was angry too so adrenaline would help that part too,

Cliff :mckay:

mindfire
January 9th, 2006, 03:53 AM
I think now they have to start adjusting the frequency again so all of their powers stay inhibited.

Calicto
January 9th, 2006, 04:00 AM
Maybe it was the Orii.

They did talk about intervention on the part of the Orii after that moment like someone was like "i though that the Orii couldnt interfere"

it could be the first step towards interference since the Ancients didnt jump in and save Gerak, so the Orii were able to do a small thing and maybe a bigger thing later. my grammar is suffering right now. i need to get to school.

Darkstar
January 9th, 2006, 04:19 AM
he gets his comeupance to the satisfaction of the fans for being a ******* and screwing everybody over, thake that!!!!!!

aAnubiSs
January 9th, 2006, 04:20 AM
I would've liked to have Prior Garak around longer. SG1 has almost no living recurring characters. Bra'tac is hanging on a loose thread. Hopefully he won't die.

GateLadyM
January 9th, 2006, 05:10 AM
Very good episode, especially the Jaffa scenes. Chris Judge doesn't get the recognition he deserves as he is one of the finest actors on the show.

Loved the banter between Mitchell and Daniel. Those two work well together. This was a Daniel-lite episode but I didn't have a problem with it as Daniel as been prominently featured earlier in the season.

Only "iffy" was Lam, who I still don't care for. Maybe that has to do with missing Janet so much.

Closing scene was sad, and fitting. Love this show!

blueiris
January 9th, 2006, 05:59 AM
I wasn't sorry to see Garak go. But, considering his belief in the Ori, I found it hard to grasp that he was swayed against them (the Ori) so fast. Unless, of course, he was swayed towards just as fast. Maybe he was just wishy/washy anyway.

syyid
January 9th, 2006, 06:50 AM
I read through a bunch of posts , couldnt go through all (sheer quantity) so here goes some of my thoughts on the episode and others comments.

Loved the dialogue, especially with Teal'c and Gerak

About the prior overcoming the device they said it inhibited his ability to concentrate his powers like others stated they just gave him too much time to concentrate which would also explain why he had a limited set of powers, he was fighting to be able to have any at all.

About Lam, again I agree with another comment made about hatred for Landry. Overcoming a lifetime of hatred takes time, simply realizing you were wrong doesnt make the associated emotions go away. Someone commented that it seemed like she was hating herself for not hating him which seemed very fitting.

Another thought that occurred to me with the Prior/Gerak analogy was that having fought the Goa'uld any prior-ization they did in the milky way would be bad news for the Ori themselves. The Priors from the Ori galaxy on the other hand were completely in awe of the Ori and believed anything and everything they said. Otoh Jaffa and other races that have known false gods would question things more openly:).

someonerandom
January 9th, 2006, 08:45 AM
is it just me? i'm pretty glad gerak got toasted.. i just can't understand somebody (the character he plays) with poor intelligence that tptb give him become a leader just like that.. guess stuff happens that way.. and i can't believe the scripting allows gerak to continue to easily persuade the council his way.. so personally, when i saw gerak get toasted at the way, it was an over and beyond excellent episode.. i loved it thus far..

what makes me wonder.. so they have an almost fully functional anti-prior device.. i bet it can later be further advanced with asgard help.. heh.. thor did make that gigantic disruptor.. how bout a gigantic anti-prior thingofabob?

yeap, and i loved the dialogs with the prior.. and that daniel had to keep guessing codes.. goes to show that they didn't have time to program an auto-modulation frequencies dealio into the thingofabob.. added more suspense :-)

i dig the episode.. and thank goodness and origin that gerak is gone.. am i the only glad one?

-p

Dutch_Razor
January 9th, 2006, 10:01 AM
Spoilers! warning! (I don't feel like making the eniter thread white, as I hate to read it)

S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S

So when the prior infected Landry with the virus, how did he get his powers back? Does the anti-prior thing work?

DragonGate
January 9th, 2006, 10:02 AM
I think it worked for a little while, and then the prior overcame it somehow.

Kingomon
January 9th, 2006, 10:08 AM
Maybe the Device ran out of juice or the sound stoped or changed. Like in a Song the beat goes on for awhile and the disc eventually runs out of time on it. He also could have used up his power like they regain it quickly when use a power but maybe the sound slew down his regaining the power. There are many ways it stoped so its hard to Know but I'll go with my regain Idea.:prioranime07:

Dutch_Razor
January 9th, 2006, 10:13 AM
Running out of batteries seems to be a bit slobby of the tech that made that part.

*back of anti-prior gun*: Batteries only run for 20 minutes. ;)

Kingomon
January 9th, 2006, 10:18 AM
Running out of batteries seems to be a bit slobby of the tech that made that part.

*back of anti-prior gun*: Batteries only run for 20 minutes. ;)
that was one reason try the Proir power recovers after every use quick but the Prior power to regain took longer because of the Gun and he saved his power until able to use it one last time.

Dana_Jeanne
January 9th, 2006, 10:46 AM
CAM: What the hell just happened?

SAM: I thought the Ori weren`t able to take action in this galaxy without inciting the Ancients.

DANIEL: It must have been some physiological failsafe they put in place when they made him a Prior. In the event [they`ve? he`d`ve?] returned.

The bracketed words are the ones I couldn`t make out. Sometimes it really sounded like one and other times the other.

Thanks very much! Was driving me nutso!

Dana Jeanne

Formerhost
January 9th, 2006, 10:46 AM
No... just better writing ;)

Agree, a few scripts from a freelancers would be really good idea. Or maybe from someone who wrote a great script back in season 1?

Tankaras
January 9th, 2006, 10:58 AM
I think the reason the prior overcame the anti-prior device is because of strong emotion. You can see when Orlan is telling him of his wife and children he is getting frustrated then seems to come to a pinnacle when Orlan says the Ori have ascended none of their followers and the prior rants about a rift that was created on one side the holy Ori and the other the unholy, dark ancients that have abandone origin. After that he seems so frustrated that he broke control of the device and Landry went a flyin.

jckfan55
January 9th, 2006, 10:59 AM
haha, maybe the device ran out of batteries, and that was why the prior gained his powers back. Shouldn't have used AAA batteries..
I thought maybe it had something to do with Landry stepping inside the "magic" circle.:S

dragongt
January 9th, 2006, 01:13 PM
Ok. Something in the Fourth Horseman, Part II does not make any sense to me. The way they solve the Prior Plague is pretty retarded to me. First off, they already encounter the plague in "The Power That Be" where Lieutenant Colonel Cameron Mitchell was infected with the plague himself. That means he already developed antibodies for it.

It doesn't make sense to end it the way it did if the key to solving the plague is an antibody which Lt. Colonel Mitchell already have in his system. They didn't need to capture the Prior or have Gerek kill himself to find the antibody they needed. Unless they plan on making every strain of plague unique to each Prior which is going to be dull to me to see this type of attack keep repeating itself.

They should have come up with a new way to get rid of the plague. The antibody ending they came up with didn't quite go well for a mid-season finale especially when they already have the antibody in the first place. Should have figure that out when after Orlin help as much as he could.

dragongt
January 9th, 2006, 01:21 PM
Ok. Something in the Fourth Horseman, Part II does not make any sense to me. The way they solve the Prior Plague is pretty retarded to me. First off, they already encounter the plague in "The Power That Be" where Lieutenant Colonel Cameron Mitchell was infected with the plague himself. That means he already developed antibodies for it.

It doesn't make sense to end it the way it did if the key to solving the plague is an antibody which Lt. Colonel Mitchell already have in his system. They didn't need to capture the Prior or have Gerek kill himself to find the antibody they needed. Unless they plan on making every strain of plague unique to each Prior which is going to be dull to me to see this type of attack keep repeating itself.

They should have come up with a new way to get rid of the plague. The antibody ending they came up with didn't quite go well for a mid-season finale especially when they already have the antibody in the first place. Should have figure that out when after Orlin help as much as he could.

jazz!
January 9th, 2006, 02:48 PM
I haven't seen the 4th Horseman Part 2 but as far as I am aware, in the episode "The Powers That Be" SG-1 stopped their resistance and gave-up.

They (Vala) told the Prior to heal the infected the people.
The people then followed Origin


Mitchell was cured by the Prior. Therefore his immune system did not produce any relevant anti-bodies

Blitz
January 9th, 2006, 03:11 PM
:indeed: (Agree's - I just wanted to play with the new smiley's *blush)

SierraGulf1
January 9th, 2006, 03:18 PM
Can't say for sure...

All I know is that I enjoyed watching him burn. :docianime15:

the fifth man
January 9th, 2006, 03:26 PM
I just got done watching this ep again. It's kinda funny, I like it a little better every time I watch it. I just really think season 9 is off and running. I can't wait to see what they still have in store for us.

-Major Woody
January 9th, 2006, 05:29 PM
Maybe the Prior realized what was happening and decided to play along to gain intel.

Laros
January 9th, 2006, 05:43 PM
It appeared that the Prior was realy straining to drag Landry along (judging by the fact that his feet did not leave the ground), so I would assume that the device didn't completely block his powers. That would be nearly impossible to do, as you would have to get the exact pitch. Rather, it just made it near impossible to gain the focus required to use his powers. The heated conversation between he and Orlin probably gave him a that focus. It's like tying up Teal'c. sure, the ropes might seem secure, and he might be unable to break them, but if someone were about to shoot say... Jack, he'd probably get a wee bit extra adrenalin to help him break free.

tflux
January 9th, 2006, 06:04 PM
It appeared that the Prior was realy straining to drag Landry along (judging by the fact that his feet did not leave the ground), so I would assume that the device didn't completely block his powers. That would be nearly impossible to do, as you would have to get the exact pitch. Rather, it just made it near impossible to gain the focus required to use his powers. The heated conversation between he and Orlin probably gave him a that focus.

I agree with that assessment.

Merlin_Ancient
January 9th, 2006, 06:23 PM
I think it was way to sudden. And he said he dies free. Whats that supposed to mean he dies free when hes a prior of the ori.

wikeja
January 9th, 2006, 06:36 PM
I suppose what's bothering me is..
if you watch Horses 1 and 2 in one sitting, and take into account all the time spent earlier in the season developing Gerak's character traits (stubborness and egoism to name a couple) it is unbelievable that Teal'c swayed him so easily. I suppose an arguement could be made that Gerak was always trying to, although somewhat misguidedly, do what was best for his people. Maybe he made the decision to sacrifice himself because Teal'c convinced him what was best for his people and played to his ego...i.e. He will now be known to the Jaffa as a hero who sacrificed himself rather than be enslaved again.

SGRanger06
January 9th, 2006, 06:42 PM
Teal'c appealed to Gerek's dad and to his Jaffaness. He appealed to everything Gerek knew/grew up around/ honored/valued/fought for/loved. Even though Gerek adopted "Origin", Teal'c convinced him that "Origin" went against everything Gerek knew/grew up around/ etc...

the fifth man
January 9th, 2006, 06:51 PM
Teal'c appealed to Gerek's dad and to his Jaffaness. He appealed to everything Gerek knew/grew up around/ honored/valued/fought for/loved. Even though Gerek adopted "Origin", Teal'c convinced him that "Origin" went against everything Gerek knew/grew up around/ etc...

Exactly!:) I couldn't have thought of a better way of putting it. Teal'c's talk with him on the planet really did help Gerak to see the error of his ways. And even though Gerak was an as***** most of the time we knew him, I think he went out on a good note. He did make an honorable sacrifice in healing the SGC personnel. So while it may have been quick, it was a good way for him to go, at least IMO.

PG15
January 9th, 2006, 07:30 PM
Forth Horsemen raised my liking of the guy greatly, I was kinda sad when he died. :(

NakedJehutyV2
January 9th, 2006, 07:41 PM
me too

the fifth man
January 9th, 2006, 07:57 PM
me too

Same here.:) It's the only explanation that works for me.

LORD MONK
January 9th, 2006, 08:01 PM
I think the reason the prior overcame the anti-prior device is because of strong emotion. You can see when Orlan is telling him of his wife and children he is getting frustrated then seems to come to a pinnacle when Orlan says the Ori have ascended none of their followers and the prior rants about a rift that was created on one side the holy Ori and the other the unholy, dark ancients that have abandone origin. After that he seems so frustrated that he broke control of the device and Landry went a flyin.
I think the same. Maybe all they needed to do was change the frequency again. Wouldn't that be cool.

FallenAngelII
January 9th, 2006, 08:33 PM
Concerning Gerak saying "I die free":

This has been said many times on the show, mostly when a Jaffa is about to get killed by another Jaffa or a Goa'uld. It just means that they have cast off their belief in their false Gods and die free from opression.

tribob
January 9th, 2006, 08:41 PM
Teal'c is da man!! lol

Who else thought Garak ori staff was really fake looking?

FallenAngelII
January 9th, 2006, 08:44 PM
Besides, didn't they say it's a virus? You cannot be immune to viruses because they mutate.

TameFarrar
January 9th, 2006, 08:45 PM
The Prior overcame the device. The device just makes it so the prior can't use the part of the brain that controls his power. It confuses him. Well he overcame it and can use his powers again. Just like the soldier sad. "He has overcome the device" The writers don't have enough time to explain every little detail. And not just that but it would make it boring if everything was spelled out for us. You know the Sudan know about Mitch being alive because a Sudan member has seen him alive.

About the other part I am with you on that.
I did not hear any of the soldiers say that... I will re-watch the episode :) and if so then you are correct THAT is enough to explain it.

I still could've lived with hearing one line about Mitchell's deception about dying from the Shodan leader though.

Lexa Jayde
January 9th, 2006, 08:50 PM
i thought that the episode was good... i loved the scene at the end... it was my fave!!!!! :P:P

NakedJehutyV2
January 9th, 2006, 10:30 PM
# "I don't hold out a lot of hope that my character will reappear. I was shot dead in the episode -- or so it would seem."
(Actor William B. Davis, in an interview with The SciFi World)

# "The Ancients are very particular about what an 'descended' human can and cannot remember. Check out 'The Fourth Horseman' I and II."
(Executive producer Joseph Mallozzi, in a message at GateWorld Forum)

# "There's a reason why [the Ori] have set their sights on this particular galaxy. For the answer, check out 'Fourth Horseman II.'"
(Executive producer Joseph Mallozzi, in a message at GateWorld Forum)

answers?

Insipid
January 9th, 2006, 10:37 PM
Different Prior = Different Plague.

syyid
January 9th, 2006, 11:20 PM
# "I don't hold out a lot of hope that my character will reappear. I was shot dead in the episode -- or so it would seem."
(Actor William B. Davis, in an interview with The SciFi World)


Don't get this, he was shot / resolved?


# "The Ancients are very particular about what an 'descended' human can and cannot remember. Check out 'The Fourth Horseman' I and II."
(Executive producer Joseph Mallozzi, in a message at GateWorld Forum)

# "There's a reason why [the Ori] have set their sights on this particular galaxy. For the answer, check out 'Fourth Horseman II.'"
(Executive producer Joseph Mallozzi, in a message at GateWorld Forum)

answers?

The above are a whole diff thing though. Totally dont get why the milky way is so enticing to them? Is it because we are a lot of people and being able to have billions if not trillions worship them will give them enough power to destroy the ancients? The only thing the episode pointed was that yes they INDEED wanted the ancients wiped out, reasonably certain we all had that figured out anyways :P

Akai
January 9th, 2006, 11:20 PM
No, because Lam said that they would be able to use that information to keep the Ori from attacking that way again. I think the antibody just isn't persistant in the body. They would probably have to obtain it very soon after the person in question is healed by a Prior. Mitchell was healed several episodes before, he probably didn't have any of the antibody left.

jefferyb
January 10th, 2006, 12:55 AM
Well I think the Ori made a huge mistake when they chose there first MilkyWay Prior, the Jaffa have an eternal conflict of sorts that would make it hard to change even if they wanted. They should have chossen a human.

ChillinTheMost
January 10th, 2006, 04:24 AM
I enjoyed this episode, as I have all the others this season. Maybe I’m just easy.

Of course, I loved the Mitchell/Daniel banter. What wonderful comedic timing.
[paraphrased] [about Ori retaliation]

Mitchell: I don’t feel anything. You?
Daniel: No. [pause] I’m a little thirsty.
Mitchell: Doesn’t count.
Daniel: No.

It’s all in the deliver and the timing. Perfect.

I agree with those that didn't think the humor was out-of-line. Mitchell and Daniel were trying to piss off the Prior and joking about inconsequential things when the Prior only wanted to seriously pass along the word of the Ori worked perfectly. It knocked down the Prior's defenses and frustrated him. Good stuff. And entertaining for me.

I actually thought that Orlin’s stilting, halting, hesitant delivery worked for this part. He was losing his memories and trying to simultaneously hold onto them and not let others know the extent of his loss. He seemed to be talking very deliberately to that end: thinking of each word to make sure it was right before he said it.

I think Amanda did a great job with the low key part she was given in this episode. If the Jaffa storyline was our gut and the Sodan storyline was our brain, Amanda’s/Sam’s storyline was our heart.

Lam’s revelation: I get that maybe she couldn’t be in the room with her father or isolate him to have the talk in private. I get that having her deliver her speech through a window represented the isolation she feels from her father. I even get that the anger still in her voice means she’s only taken the first step to accepting her father’s supposed abandonment. But the fact that I was distracted enough by [i] thinking of these things rather than feeling them through her words and delivery made the scene not work for me. If that made sense. The scene had me rationalizing, not feeling.

Okay, I know that Bra’tec would make a great leader, but I still kind of want the woman Jaffa to be more front-and-center. Maybe Bra’tec could make her his second-in-command and back her in succeeding him when he “retires”.

I think Lou Gossett, Jr is a fantastic actor, but I have been disappointed in his acting in this show. However, I thought last night he was very good. At least he went out on a high note.

Back to Mitchell: I enjoyed the easy, relaxed way he took charge this episode. I love the way he is working with Daniel. Jack was more of a big brother to Daniel, and that served him well as he now has strength in his own right, so it’s great that he’s on a more equal footing with Mitchell. They work well together and I’m looking forward to next week when it looks like we’ll get some insight to how Mitchell and Sam relate. Teal’c seems to reluctantly like Mitchell and that could be a fun dynamic, too. More team episodes!!!

Oh, yeah, I also loved the recipe "exchange". "...not even a good pie crust recipe." :) I heard that that was a Browder ad-lib. Excellent.

Okay, back to catching up with this thread...

BoneCollector
January 10th, 2006, 06:51 AM
It was only Lt. Colonel Mitchell that had the plague before, so it was probably impossible (or at least would take too long) to find the antibodies, because there was no one to compare the blood samples to.

But in this case, there were at least 4 people (i think there were 4 in that room), and all would have the same antibodies (or some common change in their DNA, or whatever)... So this way, they could isolate the antibodies and develop a cure!

I think that would make sence, although it really is a forced ending to that episode IMO. But as many of us think (from what i've seen in other threads), the episode was really really rushed... Too bad :(

Scrump
January 10th, 2006, 07:56 AM
Plus the fact they said the plague had a different structure due to mutation (this was brought up early in Part 1). What perplexes me is how they could have found a cure at all. I thought most viruses did not react to drugs only protein inhibitors, etc. Is this what they used? I can understand a vaccine to be produced but not a drug. Next question how the heck did they produce enough to distribute world wide that fast before more people died? This left me perplexed. It would have been better in my opinion if Gerek cured the whole planet, this would have seemed more plausible to me than creating a cure and distributing it that quickly (not to mention testing it to make sure it doesn't kill a person by itself).

Droops
January 10th, 2006, 10:37 AM
I liked the episode, but it proved that Lexa Doig CANNOT act. I gave her the benefit of the doubt in andromeda because she was supposed to be a spaceship and an android, but hes just as artificial in this!!

Sadly, I would tend to agree with that statement.

Droops
January 10th, 2006, 10:48 AM
If anyone can, I would like to hear what the prior said in the few lines before he was shot. There was a lot of dialog that flew past us there and I'd like to read it.

michelleb
January 10th, 2006, 11:56 AM
I don't know about Chris Judge's lines, but the man has the finest voice in the galaxy!

Good to see Hammond.

is this reminding anyone else of what they're warning us the bird flu epidemic could be like?

The Daniel/Cameron stuff was good - nice dialogue and interaction.

'Nice work on the metaphor' great line!

Cameron's omelette sounds nice...I'll have to try that.

Nice to see General Landry offworld

That boy that pays Orlin could have been better...

One of these days, Teal'c is going to do that pulling-the-weapon-toward-him-and-saying'You can shoot me first cos I choose freedom' trick once too often...somone will say 'ok then' and shoot him!

Shame Hammond couldn't hang around for Teal'c. (Shame he couldn't take control of the base while Landry was ill...or that a certain other former base commander couldn't have arrived to take over)

This wasnt as exciting as some of the other Stargate two parters,but I guess Reckoning set the standard very high

Elite Anubis Guard
January 10th, 2006, 12:00 PM
Just finished Part 2 of Four Horsemen and well...I'm really getting into Landry. Nice emotional moment for him, but I think it would have had more effect had he been infected longer.

In some ways I'm glad Garek is gone because his character annoyed me, but when he turned interesting he died, which was a shame.

I was initally happy about Vala being a regular but now I'm not so sure. I like the bond being made by the team, Daniel and Cameron in particular and I'm not sure how Vala's presence is going to effect that.

I liked that this was, for all intents and purposes, a no win situation. It was a serious episode, a change from the more light hearted stuff earlier (minus the fire scene) and I liked this.

Looking SG1.

jazz!
January 10th, 2006, 12:04 PM
The Landry-Lam 'lets pour our hearts out' scene wasn't as bad as nearly everyone said it would be
...........she FINALLY showed some emotion
........but reverted back to ice-queen/maiden ( ? ) couple of minutes later :mad:

Orlin Jr......was odd :mckay: ......the final scene with the puzzle made me kinda chuckle ( I don't think that was the intended purpose of the scene :o )

Landry's character really developed....nice acting at the meeting of international representitives (thing)

Walter......that guys getting loads of screen time :p

Cam.....better....shame he wasn't in the same awe that Sam/Danny were when Hammond came in :(

Cigaretter Smoking Man.......great piece of work

Good Mid-Season Ep.

Deano
January 10th, 2006, 12:05 PM
Just finished watching it, whats to become of orlin now

TheWarrior
January 10th, 2006, 12:09 PM
If anyone can, I would like to hear what the prior said in the few lines before he was shot. There was a lot of dialog that flew past us there and I'd like to read it.
Check out The Fourth Horseman Part II transcript (http://www.moon-catchin.net/gatenoise/sg1transcripts/s9/911fourthhorsemanpt2.htm).

Hopefully you'll find what your looking for :D

Elite Anubis Guard
January 10th, 2006, 12:41 PM
I really liked that Prior, his reactions to all the things being told to him.

HoodatWhatzit
January 10th, 2006, 12:52 PM
I think a way to make the plague hit home would have been to have the majority of the SGC infected. Make it hit closer to home, and make them act like it was hitting close to home.


I've been slogging my way through this thread and have to agree the emotional impact of the plague threat wasn't as intense as it could have been.

Considering how many people have said how great it was to see Hammond, a simple solution would have been to infect ol' George somehow. He wouldn't necessarily have to have gone off-world-- it would have been plausible for him to have contracted it through contact with SGC folk already infected (after all, having Hammond visit a few people in the infirmary wouldn't have been out of character).

I don't dislike Landry but I do miss Hammond very much. Heck, I even missed him when O'Neill was in command. It was always great to see him stop by. :)

I'll hold any other thoughts or comments for now.

Hoo

spaceangel
January 10th, 2006, 12:57 PM
I have just watched this episode in the UK....... I was really disappointed. I have read most of this thread and agree with a lot of the people who were not so happy with the Ep, but I find myself getting frustrated that I can't put my finger on what is really missing, or maybe I just don't have the vocabulary to express myself properly!
I think it comes down to a lack of depth. I have read posts from others who will disagree, but I can't help comparing this ep to ealier season eps. I watched Maternal Instinct a few days ago. You could summarise that plot very succinctly.... look for baby, find baby, leave without baby.... but, oh, the depth of characterisation and sheer emotion!
And when, when ,when will the team actually all be in the same place for most of the ep? I was almost crying tonight when I realised that this series in now past the half way point (and I believe the next ep is basically about one character) yet I don't see the members of SG-1 gelling together. Hammond said 'Congratulations on pulling the team together' OWTTE
but Teal'c wasn't there! Rather ironic.
I love Stargate and I don't believe that a series should be fossilised and never evolve... but I don't think that you should throw out everything that worked either.

Deano
January 10th, 2006, 12:58 PM
I really liked that Prior, his reactions to all the things being told to him.
The look on the priors face when he couldnt use his powers...Priceless:D:D

ChillinTheMost
January 10th, 2006, 01:35 PM
I know we can *assume* alot of stuff but this is something that the writers should have touched on....it was a big thing :)
I realize there was a ruckus AFTER the Prior started pulling Landry towards him my question is HOW did the Prior get his power back in the first place and IF he had his powers HOW were they able to shoot him??
I know one person stated something about him possibly moving away from the device on the ground....Well I KNOW they had already moved the device up onto a stump before the Prior woke up so that isn't it AND the Prior had not moved from the position he was stnding in so what was the reasoning...was it the verses he was quoting from the Book of Origin or was that some sort of power chant?? Who knows?? TPTB failed to give us any clues. :)
This was from the episode where Mitchell first met teh Shodan and he was there learning to fight and the Shodan that was shot was at the SGC ( I don't remember the Eppy name) After Dr Lam spent 9 hours in surgery she is sitting at teh Shodan's bedside and seems completely disgusted that Landry expects to question him on the whereabouts of Mitchell and that she didn't save his life JUST so he could be questioned by these big bad SGC people.... it just strikes me as a very odd reaction. Although since I am not to impressed with how this character has been played so far it could have just been very poor acting.

Actually I don't mind assuming the little things and I don't need TPTB to spell everything out BUT it is getting tiresome that they really are taking GIANT leaps with the fans faith in things and really getting unbelievable with the plotholes while still spending way to much time IMHO explaining minutia
I agree that they could have touched upon why the Sodan weren't surprised to see Mitchell. It could have been something as quick as Mitchell saying, "So I guess your brother spilled the beans about me being alive." and the Jolan(?) saying something about having to explain his actions. Maybe it got cut. Sometimes explanatory stuff gets cut. Not that that excuses it, but...

As for the Prior getting back some of his powers, well, they weren't sure it would work at all so it's possible the anti-prior machine only works for a while and then the priors can work their brains around the effects. It could work like alcohol. They said it kept him from concentrating, so that's when he was "drunk". The effect started to wear off, so he could use some of his powers, but the weren't totally back. Sort of like when Mitchell and Daniel were shooting Khalek and Khalek was able to concentrate on Mitchell's bullets and stop them, but wasn't able to concentrate on Daniel's sneak attack. In this case the prior was able to concentrate on choking Landry, but his powers hadn't returned in full force to realize that Mitchell was shooting him.

I realize that fanwanking explanations all the time can be tiresome, but while we can only explain how the Sodan knew Mitchell was alive using fanwanking [evolving from a few possible scenerios], I think the groundwork was laid for figuring out how the Prior was able to attack Landry and still be caught off-guard by Mitchell. [IMO]

ChillinTheMost
January 10th, 2006, 01:39 PM
The Anti Prior device, how Dumerris overcame it.

If you rewatch the ep, when Mitchell/Daniel are explaining the device to the Sodan, they say Temporarily remove his powers. I hadn't heard this at first either, but I rewatched it yet again and noticed it. Then there was the military guy who yelled, "he's overcome the device". Apparently the device has a certain lifespan, or eventually the Prior can focus through the mental block, or change his frequency all together.
Yeah, that's what I meant. Took a lot more words for me to say it, though. ;)

mindfire
January 10th, 2006, 01:41 PM
The look on the priors face when he couldnt use his powers...Priceless:D:D


Especially after asking Mitchell if he thought it was even possible to capture him.

ChillinTheMost
January 10th, 2006, 01:45 PM
Thanks very much! Was driving me nutso!

Dana Jeanne

The last line was something like, "In the event they ever turned." Not something "returned". I believe.

m_wendy_r
January 10th, 2006, 02:05 PM
I've skimmed through this entire thread after watching the episode, and I'm going to do my best from starting any upset over any negative things I'm about to say, but...

It was terrible. It was slow and I just couldn't get into the whole 'plague' thing, it didn't feel real in any way. I like episodes that grab my attention. This one didn't do any grabbing.

I really do hope next week picks up as I'm sure it will. I've noticed that two parters can be boring when they're not paced correctly and this was no exception. It's not the first episode I've been disappointed in and it probably won't be last. I seem to remember disliking many Season 1 and 8 episodes and quite a few in between. So I'm not going to go into next weeks episode thinking negative things, I never do.

Positively, Chris Judge rocked. He was the ONLY one who saw the seriousness and acted like the world/Jaffa were going to actually end. :tealc:

The only Orlin scene I liked was the last one and the one where he dropped the villes <sp?> on the floor. The last one was very good in showing the damage the episode had, it had a consequence, that was good.

Hammond :hammond: whilst good, didn't really have a point. I love him though, and he was the best General.

I didn't feel for Landry, which is such a shame, I've enjoyed him so far actually. I'm starting dislike Lam as well, shame for her too. I sincerely hope that the father/daughter relationship will not become too much of a focus.

I think the episode lacked a faster pace and a 'punch'. I feel really sorry to say it too.

Wendy
Hugs :)

HoodatWhatzit
January 10th, 2006, 03:25 PM
Well, I would rather have Danny~boy trying to find the right frequincy, :danielanime13: then Jack :jack_new15: . Wouldn't you? ;)


Um.. No.

(Hey.. you asked. LOL)

Daniel has often been forced to wear a different hat (so to speak) when the storyline demanded it (his help with the techie stuff in The Sentinel springs to mind) so it's not like it sent up any unusual warning bells in my head when I saw it (since if it hadn't been for the whole Orlin deal I assumed Sam would have been there).

Still, even Jack could have turned a dial a notch or two until the Prior's glow stick stopped glowing.

But then again "my" Jack would probably have either insisted Sam or someone from the scientific team that actually created the device be there to work the thing since he would have been the one directly confronting the Prior.

Even I have to admit the "dumb Jack" routine was wearing a little thin towards the end but part of the allure for the character for me was that when it came down to it the guy knew a hawk from a handsaw every time. ;) Part of leadership to me is knowing your own strengths and weaknesses and those of the people around you. You get out of the way and you let people do the jobs they're the best at. That's what being a team is all about.

Hoo

jonno
January 10th, 2006, 03:53 PM
Teal'c appealed to Gerek's dad and to his Jaffaness. He appealed to everything Gerek knew/grew up around/ honored/valued/fought for/loved. Even though Gerek adopted "Origin", Teal'c convinced him that "Origin" went against everything Gerek knew/grew up around/ etc...

That scene was one of the best in season 9 so far. It was very powerful, and it was good that for once, the guy that solved a problem in a two parter was Teal'c.

Even though Gerak was a Prior, at heart he was still Jaffa, and we already knew his reluctance to kill his brothers (from part 1), even if he was subsequently priorised.

jonno
January 10th, 2006, 03:56 PM
It appeared that the Prior was realy straining to drag Landry along (judging by the fact that his feet did not leave the ground), so I would assume that the device didn't completely block his powers. That would be nearly impossible to do, as you would have to get the exact pitch. Rather, it just made it near impossible to gain the focus required to use his powers. The heated conversation between he and Orlin probably gave him a that focus. It's like tying up Teal'c. sure, the ropes might seem secure, and he might be unable to break them, but if someone were about to shoot say... Jack, he'd probably get a wee bit extra adrenalin to help him break free.

Yeah ... and clearly he didn't regain his powers completely as Mitchell was able to kill him, so the device was still on. :prior: :cameronanime12:

jonno
January 10th, 2006, 04:05 PM
As for the Prior getting back some of his powers




Originally Posted by Laros
It appeared that the Prior was realy straining to drag Landry along (judging by the fact that his feet did not leave the ground), so I would assume that the device didn't completely block his powers. That would be nearly impossible to do, as you would have to get the exact pitch. Rather, it just made it near impossible to gain the focus required to use his powers. The heated conversation between he and Orlin probably gave him a that focus. It's like tying up Teal'c. sure, the ropes might seem secure, and he might be unable to break them, but if someone were about to shoot say... Jack, he'd probably get a wee bit extra adrenalin to help him break free.

Yeah ... and clearly he didn't regain his powers completely as Mitchell was able to kill him, so the device was still on.
:prior: :cameronanime12:

PS, sorry if this appears again ... I also posted it in another thread which may get merged with this one later

Gate Master
January 10th, 2006, 04:48 PM
Very interesting and plausable theories. It perhaps didn't help that Daniel told him how the device worked giving him perhaps the knowledge he needed to overcome it with greater focus and the emotional distress he was under.

One thing I didn't understand is if he had the power to manipulate his DNA in to the virus why didn't he have the power to read Orlin's mind to see if he were telling the truth.

TheAncient1
January 10th, 2006, 05:10 PM
Very interesting and plausable theories. It perhaps didn't help that Daniel told him how the device worked giving him perhaps the knowledge he needed to overcome it with greater focus and the emotional distress he was under.

One thing I didn't understand is if he had the power to manipulate his DNA in to the virus why didn't he have the power to read Orlin's mind to see if he were telling the truth.
Priors do have the ability to read minds, but the anti prior gun blocked that ability. At the end Orlin said something like "you know that, as I am an ancient, i wouldnt lie to you"
so the prior knew he wasnt lying. and he didnt want to believe Orlin, so, like Tankaras said, he was so frustrated that he broke through the control of the prior gun.

Johnquixote
January 10th, 2006, 05:14 PM
If you listen closely, Daniel says the device "temporarily" blocks the Prior's priors. It's when he is explaining the device to the Sodan.
So, it must be that the device...
-has limited battery(or rather can only project a sonar thing so long)
-the Prior can eventually focus through it
-the Prior changes his "frequency" some how
But I don't think emotion had much to do with it.

And for those of you who don't understand why Mitchell was able to shoot the prior, watch Prototype or read my spoiler the prior needs to know Mitchell is shooting at him, as any evolved being with telekinetic powers must, and any evolved being can be caught off guard, or in this case, shot in the back.

It's likely the prior knew he was screwed, and mainly pulled Landry in to give him the plague so he could transfer it to others, and couldn't concentrate to stop Mitchell's bullet.

*Crash*
January 10th, 2006, 05:25 PM
It would of been intresting if the prior returned to the Orii galaxy, due to he knew that Orlin wasn't lying, but dedicated his life to "false gods" and everything he believed was a lie, even tho he would not show it, when he returned he would have probly been doubtful of the Orii.

If someone came along and said that your beliefs were totally wrong and proved it infront of other "disbeleavers" everything you aspired and worked to be was based on lies and deciet and that the only reason you were there is for some others personal use, your whole belief system, dedication, culture, base of power and reason for existance is a lie, then you wouldn't be very willing to accept it, even if you knew it to be true.

Gate Master
January 10th, 2006, 06:14 PM
Thought this was a good ep with some good charector moments but one thing that has been bothering me about it is why was Orlin loosing his mind through holding on to the knowledge but Daniel seemed able to retain all albiet in his sub-conscous with out any ill effects.

PG15
January 10th, 2006, 06:19 PM
I think that was the point. Daniel's knowledge is all hidden and secured, and most of all, NOT USED. In mean time Orlin's knowledge all have to be used and remembered, and that would take a lot more effort.

Think of it this way. What's easier, writing a phone number down and forgetting about it, or trying to remember those numbers in your head AT ALL TIMES?

Hatusu
January 10th, 2006, 06:24 PM
I would love to seem the writers put a bit more pressure on themselves to come up with some GOOD DRAMA and fade to black on a few of the comedic moments from time to time :)
Exactly!!! :D

Gate Master
January 10th, 2006, 06:55 PM
I think that was the point. Daniel's knowledge is all hidden and secured, and most of all, NOT USED. In mean time Orlin's knowledge all have to be used and remembered, and that would take a lot more effort.

Think of it this way. What's easier, writing a phone number down and forgetting about it, or trying to remember those numbers in your head AT ALL TIMES?

Thats certainly plausable but then that suggests that the human brain can contain all that information so long as you dont try to access it. This also seems contradictory to when O'neil could only access the ancient knowledge sub-conciesly and it was still making him ill, albiet again in a different way.

the fifth man
January 10th, 2006, 07:08 PM
Thats certainly plausable but then that suggests that the human brain can contain all that information so long as you dont try to access it. This also seems contradictory to when O'neil could only access the ancient knowledge sub-conciesly and it was still making him ill, albiet again in a different way.

Maybe it has to do with the fact that Daniel was ascended. It is possible that when he retook human form, there was still a subtle change in him. One that would allow his mind to hold such knowledge. Who knows for sure?:)

Gate Master
January 10th, 2006, 07:23 PM
Maybe it has to do with the fact that Daniel was ascended. It is possible that when he retook human form, there was still a subtle change in him. One that would allow his mind to hold such knowledge. Who knows for sure?:)

Thats certainly as good an explanation as I can come up with and as you say who knows for sure.Its even possible the writters haven't even noticed the discepancies, I dont think they analise things to the same degree we do.

Hatusu
January 10th, 2006, 08:10 PM
I didn't think of that, but it's a huge discrepancy. Some explanation is needed.

wikeja
January 10th, 2006, 08:54 PM
Should have been a 2 hour ep. It was obvious the script was chopped to make way for the new intro and commercials. The ep was good and informative but lacked substance.
3 of 4

Chaka's_Mum
January 10th, 2006, 10:56 PM
Have to agree that the whole Dad/Daughter stuff between Landry and Lam was not as good as it could have been - she was just so brusque, and her declaration that she was starting to figure out what it had been like for him was positively grudging. Mind you, that could have been a defence mechanism perhaps. The last thing she needed to do was dissolve into a blubbing heap, though I notice Landry very nearly did! Awww...

Teal'c and Bra'tac rocked (as they always do). As has already been said, it was nice to see Teal'c pull off the solution, and to do it without shooting anyone or blowing anything up. I guess it was rather a quick turnaround on Gerak's part, but given the amount of time to tell the story, we can assume that Teal'c was pushing exactly the right buttons for a quick result, and was able to take a reasonably informed gamble that Gerak's inherent 'Jaffa-ness' would step in and remind him just what he was throwing away by becoming a Prior and trying to pull the Jaffa with him.

I enjoyed the banter between Cam and Daniel while they were engaged in 'Operation Poop The Prior'. But then, I always enjoy that sort of thing, and MS does it so well.

Okay, there were a lot of slow moments, but we caught up with General Hammond again (always nice), and our Russian pal Chekov turned up for a bit, too (Hi there).

Poor Orlin! *sniff*!

Not the greatest episode ever made, but I enjoyed it nonetheless. Maybe I'm easily pleased.:D

jannagalaxy
January 11th, 2006, 02:23 AM
I thought that the episode was alright. Not as good as part one.

Bad bits:- The general and his daughter, this is just doing my head in......Sam and Jacob had some bad times but they never went on like this.

Good bits:- Teal'c.....Christopher Judge is so so awesome in this episode. He's like a big strong teddy bear! Love him to pieces! :)

Funny part was when Cameron was talking about a recipe for an omlette.

But something of the episode did creep me out......and that was the timing of it....if you watch the news.

To close: Teal'c rules this episode!!!!!

Avatar28
January 11th, 2006, 03:02 AM
Obviously the priors, at least a single one, isn't THAT powerful. It would likely take an ascended being to cure the entire planet.

Tok'Ra Hostess
January 11th, 2006, 04:12 AM
I found the Jaffa story emotionally riveting. I liked how they developed Garak throughout his entire arc, but I knew that he had to go. It was the right thing to do; his character didn't have the staying power of Bra'tac's. Teal'c and Bra'tac owned this ep, IMO.

The Cam - Daniel parts were fun. The boys get along well. Daniel certainly has become a team player, hasn't he?

I liked how the Ori are giving the humans a hard time - kinda reminiscent of the good old first seasons when the Goa'uld could only be temporarily set back through original thinking and a bit of pure luck. I thought the tech they used was pretty nifty - low-tech stuff to use against such an advanced species as the Ori. Again, reminiscent of the first seasons.

I really did enjoy the Prior's discomfort, and Orlin's one decent scene in the entire two-parter.


It was good seeing the Sodan, again, too. Considering that SG-1 was split into 3(and the extra plot time for Lame and Daddy) the Sodan got some decent screentime.

But speaking of lame.... Dr Lam singing her sob-story over the sound system for all the patients and staff to hear.... Oh, yeah, that was so totally believable - for a Disney made-for-tv movie, maybe. :rolleyes:

But the most lame award goes to the Sam - Orlin story. Sorry, but all the music in the world couldn't help that story line. :( I saw no chemistry at all there - to say nothing of the complete turn-off of Orlin coming back as a kid. Oh, well, at least Sam got to play with Lee; at least those two play well off each other.

So, overall, a pretty decent waste of 40+ minutes, but not one I'll be watching over and over.

Stricken
January 11th, 2006, 04:17 AM
For me, this episode seemed to be rushed, the ad-break came at 10 to 9 and Stargate never lasts the whole hour on Sky One, normally finishing around 5 minutes to, which meant that what ever happened to cure everyone who had become infected would be quick.

I hadn't expected Gerak to turn but Teal'cs speech on Chulak was strong enough and brought home to Gerak that the Jaffa were meant to be free, free from the Goa'uld and the Ori. The Jaffa still follows the path to ascension but they will do it here with the Ancients, those like Oma and the Monk at Kheb.

For a Jaffa Teal’c seems to prefer the peaceful solution to combat, mind you years of oppression under the Goa’uld would make you want to kill another Jaffa whose tattoo was different. Obviously his time with the Tauri has paid off.
CJ's scenes were powerful and played into the story of the conflict that the Jaffa are going through, they are being torn between freedom and seeking "God Like Figures" And I can see Bra'tac becoming the Jaffa leader, he's old and wise, and most importantly he was Teal'c mentor, so if you can't get Teal'c go with his mentor, In my opinion any way.

The Cam/Daniel interaction gets better, it would seem that Daniel is starting to trust Mitchell is a similar way to what he had with Jack (please note I said similar and not the same). The writers seem to have adjusted to the team’s interaction with Mitchell and episode was better for it.

Many have said that the emotion should at the end of the episode between Lam and Landry was rubbish, it wasn’t!!!! Lam has felt hate towards her father for so many years because he would tell her or her mother what mission he was on, and she is final able to understand why he would say anything because she is involved with the biggest secret on Earth…ever! It takes time for the emotion to change from hate to love and the emotion that Lam showed us that she was starting to feel for her Dad again. Landry emotion was there as he was hearing how he hurt his daughter, perhaps for the first time, and how she was coming to terms with what he did and why he did it.

Good to have Hammond back for the episode, in this one episode he had more screen time than Jack’s had all season! Also with our favorite Russian back again and the debate with Landry and the representatives of the Appropriations Committee wanting answers, even though they backed the mission! And Landry was right if we don’t go and find Priors, exploring worlds, the Ori will strike as they did in this episode. At least we are out there finding ways to defend Earth…again! Also there was the issue of Walter telling Landry that the President was considering telling the world what exactly was going on, but luckily it didn’t go that far. On another note Walter’s getting more screen time :D

The only major pothole that I have a problem with is the Sodan not caring that Mitchell is alive unless they knew all along that Mitchell wasn’t dead. Also maybe the Sodan can replace the “absent” Tok’ra as our allies fighting the Ori! They seem to be against the Ori now after their “mission”

The prior seemed shocked that his powers had gone but he must have known that we would eventually get something to use against them after all its fair, isn’t it? Some think that another plot hole is where the Prior was able to use his powers even though the device was on, this is likely to be he changed the frequency of his powers, or the device only blocks the powers for a short period of time.

As has already been mentioned the music that went with the Sam/Orlin scenes gave away that in the end something bad was going to happen to Orlin, over the two parts it showed the eventually damage that Orlin could do if he held on to the information needed to make a cure. The samples being knocked to the floor to him saying and doing the same thing twice. It had a nice end to it with him being in a hospital here on Earth unable to know what he had done to save the human race, what shocked me most was the fact that he couldn’t remember Sam, the puzzle was the best way IMO to end it on.

The Gerak turns saves the S.G.C from the virus and then we use Orlin’s idea to save the planet was rushed and Landry was right we got away with it just!

Overall a good episode In my opinion.

The Fourth Horseman Part II receives a S.G.G rating of 7 out of 9 Chevrons
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Dannygirl
January 11th, 2006, 09:43 PM
Thats certainly plausable but then that suggests that the human brain can contain all that information so long as you dont try to access it. This also seems contradictory to when O'neil could only access the ancient knowledge sub-conciesly and it was still making him ill, albiet again in a different way.


Well, O'Neill's brain was being taken over at the time with this info, not to mention the info seemed to have been in a compressed format (pardon the computer terms here). So, it would seem that his subconscious was using the info as it unfolded in his brain even though he wasn't fully aware of it. So, perhaps you could say that Oma compressed the info to a small little point somewhere in Daniel's brain to the point where it did no damage as long as it remained inactive. However, when Daniel began accessing the info again with RepliSam, chances are he would've ended up the same way, if not worse that Orlin.

Wyrminarrd
January 12th, 2006, 05:55 AM
The reason for Orlins rapid decline could simply be that it was one of the requirements he had to meet in order for the other ancients not to stop him from going to Earths aid. The ancients more or less wanted to make sure that Orlin didn´t have time to impart any knowledge other then the cure.

bcfc
January 13th, 2006, 12:42 PM
Great start enjoyed the capture of the Prior and where Landry was getting to him about his kids (sad). More great insight into the Ancients and their past and seeing Mitchel and Daniel be sarcastic with the prior was great to see.


:) ;) :) ;)

schweinsty
January 15th, 2006, 06:56 PM
I really enjoyed this episode - although maybe that's because I hadn't watched my stargate in a couple weeks; withdrawal can do funny things. :P.
Although this particular episode was lacking in some respects, I thought there were some really good parts too.

Cameron and Daniel's 'interrogation' of the prisoner was one of the highlights for me. Although it reminds of some Jack/Daniel exchanges, I think Cameron is coming out as his own character; the humor is similar but not exactly the same. And his 'staff to Ori' gag? Priceless.
When I was half-way through, Orlin was annoying me. I unfortunately had missed part one, and was almost counting myself lucky for it if I'd missed 'annoying Orlin.' I thought his acting was a bit forced at times. However, that last scene was just so well done; it made me tear up - the poor guy sacrificed all of this and there's no way anyone will ever be able to thank him. There's no way he'll ever know all that he did. And the look in Sam's eyes when she offers to help with the puzzle - heartbreaking. She who best of all knew who Orlin had been, was forced to live knowing what he'd lost in a lifetime, what she'd lost in a friend. In a way, she's the only one who'll really remember him, yeah, the government will take care of him - but she'll be the only one who knows what a life he could have led, what a man he could have been - and what a man he was.
This is the first episode I did not like Dr. Lam. She had kind of grown on me earlier in the season, and I appreciated another intelligent female role. However, the way she spoke with Landry just kind of made me lukewarm towards her, so to speak. I understand why her character would have been angry, felt like being harsh - but her father could have died; yes, she was angry - but the way she spoke it seemed as if she were kicking him when he was already down. I did like that she was beginning to identify with him, but it still bothers me how harsh he was - no matter what a person was in life, he deserves kindness at least in death. Also, the acting for that part was a little off. I'll withhold my judgement until I see more of her, however, and am hoping she'll grow on me again.
The Teal'c-talk-by-the-grave thing seemed a bit cliche to me, but I liked the way the actors handled it. The lines were a bit OTT, but the acting was well done. Kudos to Mike Judge - and I did so like Bra'tac's speech.
And, after everything is said and done, you have to love Daniel Jackson in a black bandanna. Or any bandanna, really. And I loved the way he took care of the Prior problem when his teammate was dangling in mid-air. "*Looks over at Cam* Hmm. No, not that one either." Perhaps cliche, but still good. And you've gotta love the bandanna.
:daniel:

Jeffer
January 19th, 2006, 07:03 PM
OMG this ep had me on the edge of my seat with the emotion and speaches

Gerick giving his life to say earth was good


and the witty coments between DJ amd CM we great i wanna get the recipe for the omlet it sounded great

Fargater
January 19th, 2006, 09:46 PM
The last line was something like, "In the event they ever turned." Not something "returned". I believe.
Ah. Thanks. That makes more sense than what I thought he was saying. They`d want a failsafe in case a Prior "ever turned".

EDIT: Just checked TheWarrior`s link to the trancript (Thanks, TheWarrior) and it is indeed "in the event he ever turned".

Caylynn
January 21st, 2006, 07:03 AM
With regards to whether Hammond is retired or not, well, he could very well be in the Air Force.

My husband is a Canadian army officer, and, according to him, there are plenty of senior military positions in the U.S. where the dress of the day for those positions is civilian attire. These senior officers hardly ever wear their uniform, except on special occasions.

So Hammond could still be in the Air Force. :hammond:

greytop
January 21st, 2006, 04:41 PM
So Hammond could still be in the Air Force. :hammond:Could Hammond still be Jack's superior then?

Liam Kincaid
January 31st, 2006, 11:20 PM
Since Gerak gave his life in a selfless attempt to defend the Galaxy against the Ori, the Ancients, or at least one of them, should help him to ascend. I hope we see more of Gerak.

SeaBee
February 15th, 2006, 04:46 PM
An ok ep, IMO, but it didn't really live up to the promise that Pt 1 imparted.

Good point, Gerak is gone. I never liked the character, he didn't work for me.

Bad point, the petulant rant from a daughter to her dying father. Real comforting.

telpethoniel
February 17th, 2006, 11:21 PM
I was totally pathetic in this episode, I was desperately ttrying to hold back tears (only barely succeeded) I really didn't like Gerak's character before he was Pryorised, he was just annoying but when he started to turn I was interested and when he went up in flames I lost it (The O my gosh moment!)
I adore Teal'c even more for this episode, he's a person I would do almost anything to have as a friend (not in an attraction way but as a mentor), he would do me a lot of good- besides I couldn't fight my way out of a paper bag
Mitchell/Ben is really claiming ground, i was seriously angry when I found out that he would replace Jack and they were bringing Claudia in too, but I don't see his character in Farscape when I look at Mitchell, and I adored Vala as soon as she walked thru the Gate when I first saw her in Avalon 1.
The actor who played Orlin did do a good job but I did feel that many of his line lacked emotion.
The exchange between Lam and Landry (the talk and the emotion) was very character building, I liked it.
I got the feeling that Sam was having too many exchanges with Orlin, perhaps maybe Daniel could have chatted for a bit rather than it all being Sam.
Aside from that I thought both Daniel and Sam were great, they both did us proud.
Oh and it's good we now know that Priors can be turned (they've been a bit biased up till now;))

Anyways I'll stop waffling on

Tel
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_12_7.gif

Amanda Eros
April 7th, 2006, 05:00 PM
Is it just me or does that scene with Hammond not only look strangely bright? Like AT, MS, and BB were in one location, and Hammond was in another. Same thing goes with the nursing home scene. It kind of looks super imposed?

phaeton
September 8th, 2006, 02:07 AM
I felt I was let down in pt 2, I can't put my finger on it.

Overall 7.0

McClance
January 29th, 2007, 01:03 AM
Ben and Michael are brilliant acting off one another when they're confronting the prior. :P

It was fun, also, to see Hammond have a moment with Mitchell and two of the original teammates. :)

kes
February 11th, 2007, 05:56 PM
I dont feel like reading the entire thread so sorry if this has been mention before.
So I'm rewatching the ep and at 17m22s give or take (Mitchell is hanging in the air thanks to our dear CSM lol) and there's a white X next to his head and the shot changes to the Prior CSM (Mitchells POV) and there's the white cross in the ground. I cant seem to take screen grabs and cant find any at the screengrabs site of the scene. Can anyone else see it or is it just me ? What the hell is it? A mistake, a left over from the special effects?Ideas?

McClance
February 12th, 2007, 09:41 AM
I dont feel like reading the entire thread so sorry if this has been mention before.
So I'm rewatching the ep and at 17m22s give or take (Mitchell is hanging in the air thanks to our dear CSM lol) and there's a white X next to his head and the shot changes to the Prior CSM (Mitchells POV) and there's the white cross in the ground. I cant seem to take screen grabs and cant find any at the screengrabs site of the scene. Can anyone else see it or is it just me ? What the hell is it? A mistake, a left over from the special effects?Ideas?

Hm... Sounds like the post-production team forgot to edit out the place marks.

I'll have to watch for that next time that episode airs. :)

squeakytoad
April 18th, 2007, 05:34 AM
What the heck is going on here?
They say "I die free" multiple times, but in English. It's Shel kek nem ron, you pathetic new writers. Do you not make any attempt to give us that classic feel of the first half of this series? Geez.

PG15
April 18th, 2007, 06:56 PM
Do you even know who wrote this episode? :rolleyes:

squeakytoad
April 18th, 2007, 07:47 PM
Do you even know who wrote this episode? :rolleyes:

Yeah, Damian Kindler, who didn't join the series till Season Six, which would make him a latter half writer. :rolleyes:
He's also responsible for some of the worst episodes (though he has had a few good ones).

PG15
April 18th, 2007, 11:17 PM
Well...Gateworld says it's written by Joe Mallozzi and Paul Mullie, who came onboard during Season 4. That's the 1st half.

Meh, I like "I die free" better than a bit of alienese.

squeakytoad
April 19th, 2007, 12:12 AM
Well...Gateworld says it's written by Joe Mallozzi and Paul Mullie, who came onboard during Season 4. That's the 1st half.

Meh, I like "I die free" better than a bit of alienese.

Guess it's a matter of opinion. I've been watching the show since I was a kid, ever since the first season, (saw the movie too), so hearing Teal'c and Gerak say "Shel kek nem ron" would've been one of those cool, moments that really takes you back.
I kind of hated, as the seasons dragged on, how everyone lost their "cool".
In the first season, Jaffa were highly trained, extremely skillfull warriors of terror who had this awesome "honor and glory" aura and had all these samuraiesque traditions.
As the show went on, everyone but Bratac and Teal'c became weak, pathetic warriors who were over-the-top, never mysterious or scary, and didn't care squat for any sort of tradition.

garhkal
April 19th, 2007, 12:05 PM
Well, Harak was scary..

But i actually prefered Garak's saying it in english, vice the old school saying...

Peteo
December 9th, 2007, 03:56 AM
Not a good episode.
I felt nothing but the occasional crnging of embarrassment.....

....How come the Ori dude got his powers back and didn’t just grab his staff and start wasting people. Oh yea, that would require an explanation. As far as I can tell Stargate doesn’t do explanations anymore.

Teal’c and Bra’tec are still cool. Everything else was a waste.

I know I am commenting a few year old comment because I'm a little behind watching these episodes, but I agree! The only good thing about the season 9 of SG-1 so far has been the characters/actors, the stories have been awful! :mckay:
The episodes introduce dozens of new questions, but none of them are answered! And the endings are always rushed. I'm hating this new SG-1. TPTB can go to hell for ruining something great! :(

Oh well, end of rant.
At least SGA offers great entertainment. :ronan:

Dinoman
May 12th, 2009, 09:44 PM
Not a very good one, I'm afraid, rather boring some times.

major davis
May 15th, 2009, 12:45 PM
The first part was much much much much much much much much much much much much better

6.5/10

Ulkesh47
May 15th, 2009, 01:52 PM
The first part was much much much much much much much much much much much much better

6.5/10
My personal "first part was much much much much much better" two-parter was "Summit"/"Last Stand".

For the "Fourth Horseman" episodes... I haven't seen them in a while so the two parts blur together in my mind.

I read a scripted scene on Gateworld between Bra'tac and Teal'c that I think should have stayed in the episode, but to me it's not as bothersome as Teal'c's modified "Wormhole X-Treme!" donut line.

Hive Queen
August 1st, 2009, 05:04 AM
Ok this has probably been done to death but I just have to post this...

Damaris
http://www.thescifiworld.net/img/interviews/williambdavis_02.jpg

Emperor palpatine
http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/resources/2008/03/Emperor-Palpatine.jpg

fazza92
August 1st, 2009, 06:48 PM
hahaha, I didn't even notice!

mrscopterdoc
April 6th, 2010, 08:54 PM
part one was a tad better but I still liked this

rushy
April 25th, 2010, 11:14 AM
Well, Gerak as a Prior was even more arrogant:''Hallowed are the Ori, Flames of Enlightment, You will burn in the fires of everlasting torment''? Silly.

maneth
December 20th, 2010, 09:10 AM
This double ep is definitely the best of the season so far. Wonderful! Loved the humiliation of Damaris, as well as seeing the Sokar again.

Starbreaker
January 14th, 2011, 09:33 AM
So cool to see William Davis. He's a genre actor and not afraid to show it.

F250
March 17th, 2011, 05:38 AM
Just got the complete season box set and maybe I missed a ep but wasn't Mitchell dead to the Sodan he had that fight where one had to die. But he goes back and everyone acts like it never happened.

dogstarz
March 29th, 2011, 12:40 AM
This episode overall isn't great, season 9 has many better episodes. Although, I had a nerdgasm when Stargate, Farscape and X-Files were combined in a couple scenes.

Dave2
January 16th, 2012, 03:40 PM
With so much at stake and the pandemic, where was Jack O'Neill as Hammond's successor as Secretary of Homeworld Security in Washington? Nice to Hammond. Too bad he left for health reasons, he looked pretty good actually. Hammond and Landry would also have been a good team.

Lieutenant Sparrow
April 16th, 2012, 04:00 AM
Why don't the Sodan question Mitchell being alive? A bit strange.

It's so great seeing Hammond again. No matter how small an appearance.

I admit it was great seeing Damaris humiliated like that. Bit still so stubborn.

Poor Orlin :( we will never see him again now.

Jae'a
April 16th, 2012, 10:18 AM
My LiveJournal post (http://jo-r-lee.livejournal.com/48954.html)

Damn Priors...

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
April 16th, 2012, 03:50 PM
I guess I don't have a previous post.

But I thought it was an average Season 9 episode.

Gerak went out saving the Earth and dying free.

The scene where Hammond says hi to SG-1 (sans Teal'c) was nice.

Tomorrow, Mitchell is accused of murder.

Krisz
April 17th, 2012, 07:14 PM
At least Gerak saw the truth about what the Ori were really doing and saved the SCG. Orlin did just enough to give Earth a chance to recover from the latest underhand effort by the Ori to kill them. I liked the fact that it was the humans that finished the vaccine that Orlin started on to stop the plague.

Fun bit of trial and error with trying to get the anti-prior device working! There's Mitchell as the crash test dummy again!!! :P

Sad seeing Orlin without any memories of who he was and even of Sam at the end. I always hoped at some point the rest of the Ancients might take pity on him again and welcome him back for what he did.

discodiva
April 18th, 2012, 12:32 AM
Very much enjoyed the Mitchell/Jackson banter and William B Davis is always a bonus...:)..

I have to say that I really do love Stargate for it's incidental music...especially for the sad scenes...it fits so perfectly and can pull heartstrings!..:(


Deeds xx

liminoid
April 20th, 2012, 08:47 AM
I actually thought this was the first good story in an otherwise craptacular season. And first good turn from Mitchell who was unwatchably bad until the stellar scene with Jackson dressing down the prior. And even Landry, whose lines and acting have been almost as bad as Mitchell's, and the normally wooden Dr. Lam, had a decent moment at the end. I'm guessing all downhill from here?

jelgate
April 20th, 2012, 06:57 PM
This was a good return to the previous episode. Unlike many past two parters. I feel like the fast pace is consistent through out both parts making for an entertaining two parts. Things were looking desperate and they looked even more desperate in this episode as the virus expands beyond the Untied States. I like that the anti-Prior device is only temporary and it takes trial and error. It would be too easy if we could elminate their abilities completely remember laughing at the exhange of cheese recipes. It was hilarious. I felt this was another episode to speak to Landry's strong character and empathy for his people as he risks his own life to interogate the Prior. It is kind of sad to see what happened to Orilin. He not only sacrificed his ascension but also his life in to protect Earth from the Ori

Matt G
April 21st, 2012, 04:13 PM
1. Very smooth work from Teal'c.

2. Hammond...hmm...not sure what the gameplan was here...

3. Like what the did with the prior.

4. Slight problem, one of those eps where the writers suddenly realised they were running out of script.

garhkal
April 26th, 2012, 02:43 PM
Sad seeing Orlin without any memories of who he was and even of Sam at the end. I always hoped at some point the rest of the Ancients might take pity on him again and welcome him back for what he did.

Even he admitted that this was a one way trip as he broke their highest tennants, he kept the ancient knowledge...

fems
April 27th, 2012, 05:30 AM
Even he admitted that this was a one way trip as he broke their highest tennants, he kept the ancient knowledge...

But didn't he do the same in Ascension? How else would he have known how to build a baby Stargate?

garhkal
April 27th, 2012, 12:34 PM
I am not sure if that was using their knowledge.. remember it only worked once.

fems
April 27th, 2012, 12:45 PM
True, but I figured that was down to a lack of materials and perhaps power, considering there's no naquadah on Earth and how much it costs the SGC to dial out...

KayLyne
April 27th, 2012, 05:02 PM
If there's any one scene that totally makes this 2-part story a good one for me, it's the scene where Hammond comes into the briefing room to say hi to Sam, Daniel & Cam. "It's always darkest before the dawn." I really miss DSD.

garhkal
April 27th, 2012, 11:32 PM
It was truely a sad day when we learned of his passing.

Anja
October 18th, 2015, 07:49 AM
Emotional and touching, I liked this ep.
Orlin was very convincing for me, poor boy or creature or whatever you call him in his state of existence.
The interaction between Landry and his daughter was okay for me - she acted the way she was.

garhkal
October 18th, 2015, 10:58 PM
It's a pity that after this, they never went back to check in on Orlin.

Platschu
March 19th, 2020, 02:41 PM
ANCHORWOMAN
(on television screen)
The final death toll of the pandemic has been estimated at a little over three thousand, worldwide, but health officials are quick to point out that it could have been much worse. As distribution of the vaccine continues, many have begun to ask how this could have happened in the first place. And, more to the point, where did this virus originate?

http://www.stargate-sg1-solutions.com/wiki/9.11_%22The_Fourth_Horseman_Part_2%22_Transcript

I was thinking on this episode because of the corona virus outbreak. If they could reveal the Stargate Program in the future, then I am sure this vaccination would be questioned and the families of the victims would demand compensations from the government. But probably the public would be still fooled and they would never find out that Ori plague had an alien resource.