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vermontgate
July 16th, 2004, 08:21 PM
Oh my God, what a terrible character!

She's Atlantis' Captain Picard to SG-1's Jack O'neill Captain Kirk.

I can't stand the booo hooo, let's not do anything cause there's big bad boogy men out there, I also don't care for her attitude of "I'm an American, and I'm lucky to be here because of America and the American Govt, cuts me my pay check, but I'll be the first person to stand up and ***** about America and the government employing me"

Sounds like she works for the New York Times or something.

Other then that, liked the show, just dump Weir!

the adventurer
July 16th, 2004, 08:22 PM
LIES! Weir is an interesting and potencialy deep character.

DownFallAngel
July 16th, 2004, 08:23 PM
I like Weir alot. Why do you dislike here so much? She's hot too.

Mio
July 16th, 2004, 08:24 PM
I can't stand the booo hooo, let's not do anything cause there's big bad boogy men out there
The wraith are as technologically advanced as the ancients! We wouldn't stand a chance if they got to Atlantis before we got the shield up and running.

Avalar
July 16th, 2004, 08:26 PM
The wraith are as technologically advanced as the ancients! We wouldn't stand a chance if they got to Atlantis before we got the shield up and running.

After seeing this episode I'm thinking the Wraith are *not* as technologically advanced. I mean, they had to depend on a virus to wipe out the Ancients, even though they outnumbered them! Surely their military might was not enough to suppress them.

vermontgate
July 16th, 2004, 08:29 PM
Oh wow, please tell me your kidding, they HAVE to change the character to show some back bone. NONE of the SG Teams even remotely showed that level of cowarderness from day 1, I know the writers are looking to build this military - civilian tension with her, but it just comes off as totally weak.

As far as Torri Higginson being hot, she needs to put on about 30 pounds before she's hot, her neck is really long not my type of women. Now Rachel Luttrel (Teyla), WOW!

N.I.D.
July 16th, 2004, 08:29 PM
OK, I didn't like her that much either. But she still was a pretty good character, and played the part she had to play fairly well. No, I don't think she has the skills needed to command an entire base, but I think Sheppard will become the unofficial leader in the show. He is much better, and is from the military, giving him the qualifications for such a job. So no, I didn't like Weir's part that much, but she still did a fairly good job. Me? I liked the Scottish guy(Beckett) the best. :p

Selmak
July 16th, 2004, 08:29 PM
Wier isn't the best character in Atlantis but I don't hate her.

EYU86
July 16th, 2004, 08:31 PM
Yea, the scottish guy kicked butt.
He was like I don't touch things because I end up breaking them.
And you see the scene before he left, can anyone say MAMA'S BOY

vermontgate
July 16th, 2004, 08:34 PM
Don't get me wrong I think the actress did I fine job of playing the part, I just hate the character. Kill her off, or give command to Major Sheppard and have her go back to Earth and the Anarctic is some episode where they get the gate open and can only send one person.

Loki
July 16th, 2004, 08:38 PM
I like the idea of Weirs character, but the lady playing her just didn't feel right. Like that whole scene on the balcony where she was arguing with Shepard, in essence she was absolutly right. You didn't risk exposing yourself to a potenialy over-powering enemy untill you have all your ducks in a row. But she failed to make a convincing arguement (writers fault) or portray any of the untangibles of acting we are used to getting from O'Neil and Hammond (her fault).

Manic
July 16th, 2004, 08:44 PM
SPOILER-HEAVY


I think Weir is a pretty good character. It's not that she was being a coward with the whole Wraith thing, but you have to remember that she's a diplomat and negotiator. She's not as quick to take action as fans are used to with SG-1.

She explained clearly why she didn't want Sheppard to go rescue the others. For one thing, they knew nothing about where they were going or who they were dealing with. It's a tad foolish to rush in for a rescue mission when you don't know what awaits you on the other side of a wormhole. These are the things that killed off the Ancients, and we barely know how to use their technology.

She wanted to avoid making the Wraith their enemies in the same way SG-1 made the Goa'uld theirs. Besides, she eventually let Sheppard go on the mission.

I'm guessing she won't have complete control over everything that goes on in Atlantis. Like I said, she's not used to taking action. She'll probably consult Maj. Sheppard a lot more than Hammond consulted his subordinates.

And you never know when those incredible negotiating skills will come in handy, what with all of the planets they have yet to visit.

Personally, I'd want her to be more like Dr. Jackson and go along on the missions and work her verbal magic with the locals. But TPTB put her in charge, so let's just hope they know how to write her character.

kiwigater
July 16th, 2004, 08:55 PM
S
P
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I
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S



SPOILER-HEAVY


I think Weir is a pretty good character. It's not that she was being a coward with the whole Wraith thing, but you have to remember that she's a diplomat and negotiator. She's not as quick to take action as fans are used to with SG-1.

She explained clearly why she didn't want Sheppard to go rescue the others. For one thing, they knew nothing about where they were going or who they were dealing with. It's a tad foolish to rush in for a rescue mission when you don't know what awaits you on the other side of a wormhole. These are the things that killed off the Ancients, and we barely know how to use their technology.

She wanted to avoid making the Wraith their enemies in the same way SG-1 made the Goa'uld theirs. Besides, she eventually let Sheppard go on the mission.

I'm guessing she won't have complete control over everything that goes on in Atlantis. Like I said, she's not used to taking action. She'll probably consult Maj. Sheppard a lot more than Hammond consulted his subordinates.

And you never know when those incredible negotiating skills will come in handy, what with all of the planets they have yet to visit.

Personally, I'd want her to be more like Dr. Jackson and go along on the missions and work her verbal magic with the locals. But TPTB put her in charge, so let's just hope they know how to write her character.

I agree! (with JQuinn- keep Dr Weir!) I don't like the new actress quite as much as the previous one (who did look disturbingly similar to AT :) ), but I don't see any reason to get rid of her QUITE yet (does no one remember the awful lines Sam had in the SG-1 pilot??).
I didn't think she was cowardly at all, merely trying to minimise their exposure before they had even figured out how the lights worked! Are you suggesting she should have given Sheppard carte blanche to run off to save the rest of his team?? Hammond would never have done that without checking the arrival gate, why would she?? (after all, it was floating in space - nice BTW :)
Give them a couple of episodes to get into it :D

Persephone
July 16th, 2004, 08:58 PM
I loved her in New Order and I really liked her in Atlantis. I think it's a little unfair to label her recalcitrance as "cowardice" She's got a lot of people to think about and not very many options. I see plenty of potential in the character. I actually really loved that scene on the balcony. I think Weir is very well aware of how much she'll need help and advice, and her lack of self-assertion when unneccessary is something that really attracts me.

Melyanna
July 16th, 2004, 09:10 PM
I have to concur with Persephone. I think part of the problem is that we've been used to seeing military people who risk their lives on a daily basis, and Elizabeth Weir isn't like that. But hopefully, it'll be this potential weakness which will set this show apart from SG-1. I think we'd all get really bored if this show were just like the original, despite how good the original is. Let this one have its own dramatic depth.

FieryHands
July 16th, 2004, 09:20 PM
This is after all the pilot, I say wait a few episodes to see where the writers take her. Weir has plenty of potential to develop more of a backbone once they've been on a few adventures.

MasterPower
August 7th, 2004, 02:36 PM
I don't find anything wrong with Weir.
She isn't that bad.

Buzz Lightyear
August 7th, 2004, 03:01 PM
She's Atlantis' Captain Picard to SG-1's Jack O'neill Captain Kirk.

You say that like it's a bad thing. :rolleyes:

FYI, Captain Picard is arguably the most popular Star Trek captain of them all.

Besides, why would Weir need to be like O'Neill or Kirk when the Sheppard character is designed to fill that role?

vikingjedi
August 7th, 2004, 05:22 PM
Right, Sheppard is the real leader so ditch her. It also makes Sheppard look bad when he has to ask for permission all the time to do anything.

Ugly Pig
August 7th, 2004, 05:29 PM
It also makes Sheppard look bad when he has to ask for permission all the time to do anything.
Why does that make him look bad? He's just following the chain of command. That's how it works.

furry
August 7th, 2004, 07:17 PM
I vote for getting rid off Weir. She has no leadership capability whatsoever.

Hooni
August 7th, 2004, 07:27 PM
She is not my favorite character but I know why.

My husband is a director of a major retail chain and one of his management tricks is neutral feedback. He pulls that "I understand how you feel" crap on me and I want to break a chair over his head. That is exactly what Weir does. It makes me feel like she is patronizing whoever she is talking to.

It's more my personal issue though. I am hoping as the actress gets more comfortable with the character they will drop the neutral feedback/patronizing trick.

gwangung
August 8th, 2004, 12:13 AM
She is not my favorite character but I know why.

My husband is a director of a major retail chain and one of his management tricks is neutral feedback. He pulls that "I understand how you feel" crap on me and I want to break a chair over his head. That is exactly what Weir does. It makes me feel like she is patronizing whoever she is talking to.


Exactly. Weir's behavior is realistic.

It's not necessarily dramatic, though. I think she needs a foil or sounding board for her. That'd show the pressures she's under (And, ironically, it would show how alone she is).

The problem with the character is that it's not being shown very well what kind of pressures she's under. She's having to fight a war...a war that she's not prepared for. She's undergoing multitudes of First Contacts. She's under terrible time crunches for resource and technology searches.

I wonder why we're not seeing them....

Supreme Commander Thor
August 8th, 2004, 12:16 AM
My husband is a director of a major retail chain and one of his management tricks is neutral feedback. He pulls that "I understand how you feel" crap on me and I want to break a chair over his head.
Thanks for this Hooni. This is the best thing I have read all night! HAHAHAH

furry
August 8th, 2004, 12:16 AM
Weir must DIE!

Supreme Commander Thor
August 8th, 2004, 12:20 AM
Weir must DIE!HA! Now that is a little extreme

Ancient 1
August 8th, 2004, 12:21 AM
Oh my God, what a terrible character!

She's Atlantis' Captain Picard to SG-1's Jack O'neill Captain Kirk.

I can't stand the booo hooo, let's not do anything cause there's big bad boogy men out there, I also don't care for her attitude of "I'm an American, and I'm lucky to be here because of America and the American Govt, cuts me my pay check, but I'll be the first person to stand up and ***** about America and the government employing me"

Sounds like she works for the New York Times or something.

Other then that, liked the show, just dump Weir!
Yea, she's even way left of being P C! She should come back to earth and shack up with Al Frankin and Michael Moore!

Supreme Commander Thor
August 8th, 2004, 12:25 AM
She should come back to earth and shack up with Al Frankin and Michael Moore!
ROTFLMAO... Yeah, if this was true I too would say get rid of her... hahahah

Ancient 1
August 9th, 2004, 04:45 PM
ROTFLMAO... Yeah, if this was true I too would say get rid of her... hahahah
ROTFLMAO: Please translate?

Right Of The Far-Left.....????

Getting a fron-ache!

Supreme Commander Thor
August 9th, 2004, 04:47 PM
ROTFLMAO: Please translate?

Right Of The Far-Left.....????

Getting a fron-ache!heheheh.... Rolling On The Floor Laughing My A$$ Off... hopefully I dont get banned for that... hahahah

Major Fischer
August 9th, 2004, 04:49 PM
Already spent a great deal of time in another thred defending Weir. I only wish those of you who didn't like her would be a little bit.... more articulate about it. But than again, there seems to be a disturbing tendency in these boards to insist that characters you don't like, or that you don't want to sleep with, should die.

:rolleyes:

Gabriel
August 9th, 2004, 05:13 PM
I totaly agree. Get rid of Weir and Ford...

Positively Kanyon
August 9th, 2004, 05:23 PM
I think alot of people on these boards are being quite harsh towards not only the character of Dr. Weir, but to Torri Higginson as well, especially you Furry.

I'm in agreeance with Major Fischer, as I've tried as well to defend the character and the actress. What if Torri reads the forums, and sees posts about people wanting her to die? I don't think that would be very reassuring to the actress. If she does read the forums, I would like to say that she is doing a fantastic job with the character and she should not lose faith that certain members in the fanbase don't think she is.

Some people here need to learn how to offer constructive criticism instead of making death threats.

furry
August 9th, 2004, 05:28 PM
We must toss Weir to the Wraith!


There, less harsh enough? :D

Major Fischer
August 9th, 2004, 05:35 PM
Oh yeah, if people don't agree with it, say it louder...

I don't care what you are saying if you can't be bothered to be respectful of the other people on the board by not using huge red text.

furry
August 9th, 2004, 05:41 PM
Oh yeah, if people don't agree with it, say it louder...

I don't care what you are saying if you can't be bothered to be respectful of the other people on the board by not using huge red text.


Jeez, there is no pleasing some people.


"We must toss Weir to the Wraith."

Here, satisfied? ;)

Buzz Lightyear
August 9th, 2004, 08:12 PM
Jeez, there is no pleasing some people.


"We must toss Weir to the Wraith."

Here, satisfied? ;)

I think everyone is well-aware of your opinion.

Or are we? Is it Weir the character you hate or Higginson actress? And what happened to your Carole Bouquet thread?

ShadowMaat
August 9th, 2004, 08:15 PM
The Carole thread was turning into a one-sided flame war and was swallowed up by the Mods.

As for Weir, I think the writers need to wake up and concentrate on making her a fully-fledged character with some personal quirks instead of being Ms. Xenophobic Leader Girl. By that's my opinion.

I have no problem with the actress. Yet. ;) I like her better than Carole. :P

Buzz Lightyear
August 9th, 2004, 08:21 PM
The Carole thread was turning into a one-sided flame war and was swallowed up by the Mods.

As for Weir, I think the writers need to wake up and concentrate on making her a fully-fledged character with some personal quirks instead of being Ms. Xenophobic Leader Girl. By that's my opinion.

I have no problem with the actress. Yet. ;) I like her better than Carole. :P

Aw... I must've missed all the fireworks. :D

Anyway, I was going to say that while Carole Bouquet is beautiful, I have my doubts she would be able to act effectively in English. Yes, she's won a C├ęsar Award (French Oscar), but Torri has won a Gemini Award (Canadian Emmy).

gwangung
August 9th, 2004, 11:45 PM
Somebody posted elsewhere that Weir is absolutely terrified at the situation she's in. And I think that's a good take and that's what Higgison is aiming for...what sane person WOULDN'T be in that situation?

Problem is....there've been no situations to show her inner state...and there've been no way for her to find out that folks like James T. Kirk, Horatio Hornblower and so on have felt the same way.

GateGipsy
August 10th, 2004, 02:50 AM
OK Folks, I'm only going to say this once. Let's get a proper discussion going here. If we can't then this thread will go the same way as the others - it will be closed.

GateWorld has rules, but there is one in particular that is the most important - no negative personal remarks about cast/crew/other posters. In other words, real people. As long as someone is clearly talking about a fictional character, then that is OK.

If you think that someone is breaking the forum rules then report them to the mods. Please do not take it upon yourself to police other posters - that is not your responsibility.

This should be a discussion of ideas and opinions, NOT a discussion of the rights of other posters to have those opinions.

If you find that a thread subject isn't something you like, then just ignore it. There is nothing productive in going into a discussion just to rubbish the people for having that discussion in the first place.

When you do reply to a post, give reasons for why you're disagreeing or agreeing, explain your point of view. Give people something on which they can reply either agreeing or disagreeing - that is the point of a discussion thread.

If posters can't allow other people to express their opinions (as long as they do so within forum rules) without constantly rubbishing them in an unproductive manner, they will be put on moderation.

We expect people who come to GateWorld to have grown up, adult discussions. Not to be simply rude to each other.

CaptainE420
August 10th, 2004, 03:13 AM
(intended for humor :D ) We're sorry GateGypsie. If we offended you in any way, it was unintentional. Please don't be a hater. . .

GateGipsy
August 10th, 2004, 03:32 AM
I'm a moderator on this forum, and I'm also the forum manager. It is my job to make sure that discussions go according to forum rules. We don't have many forum rules, and they're not difficult to follow. Don't be a hater? Now there's the oddest thing I've ever heard anyone say! I don't feel 'hate' or 'love' for you guys in this thread - I'm just making sure that you keep to the rules.

Now, please lets get back on topic.

prion
August 10th, 2004, 09:43 AM
The Carole thread was turning into a one-sided flame war and was swallowed up by the Mods.

As for Weir, I think the writers need to wake up and concentrate on making her a fully-fledged character with some personal quirks instead of being Ms. Xenophobic Leader Girl. By that's my opinion.

I have no problem with the actress. Yet. ;) I like her better than Carole. :P

What carole thread? Any 'flaming' here is less than in other threads on this board. That's for sure! :rolleyes:

As for Weir, she's a character that has to develop. By that I mean we don't want her being superwoman right off the bat. That would be dull as dishwater. She's been a civilian diplomat most of her life. That means dealing with humans, on Earth, with stupid petty human squabbling. While she's had to broker deals, they have been (except for "New Order") deals in which hte consequences do not mean that everybody around her (including herself) can be blown to smithereens.

I think she's done well, and her decisions must be made for the whole, not the few, and basically she has to shove aside personal feelings. She'll make decisions that Sheppard doesn't like, or McKay, or Bates. She's not there to score brownie points, but to get a mission done. And Bates, he's doing the same thing, although I think he needs lessons in how to say it. Dale Carngie course, anyone? :D

GateGipsy
August 10th, 2004, 10:07 AM
As for Weir, she's a character that has to develop. By that I mean we don't want her being superwoman right off the bat. That would be dull as dishwater. She's been a civilian diplomat most of her life. That means dealing with humans, on Earth, with stupid petty human squabbling. While she's had to broker deals, they have been (except for "New Order") deals in which hte consequences do not mean that everybody around her (including herself) can be blown to smithereens.

I think she's done well, and her decisions must be made for the whole, not the few, and basically she has to shove aside personal feelings. She'll make decisions that Sheppard doesn't like, or McKay, or Bates. She's not there to score brownie points, but to get a mission done. And Bates, he's doing the same thing, although I think he needs lessons in how to say it. Dale Carngie course, anyone? :D
My problem and I think this goes for a lot of other people is the feeling that this isn't how TPTB are playing it. The flaws that Weir has shown can be explained quite easily as giving the character depth, showing how her lack of training and experience in leading a huge number of people in life and death situations leads to mistakes (such as the way she handled Kavanagh in 38 minutes) isn't actually that at all. It is TPTB simply getting the character wrong.

I'm trying to withold judgement myself on that one. I'd like it to be the reasons explained, as I really want her to be less than perfect - that would make her so much more interesting.

furry
August 11th, 2004, 06:00 PM
Anyone watched the Firefly series? That series was EXCELLENT. Much better story and acting than Atlantis. But it was canned after the first season.

I do wonder about the fate of Atlantis.

PlaZ
August 11th, 2004, 07:09 PM
i'll post this here, after the thread i was originally replying to had been closed while typing. The thread creator was writing about the character weir being unable to make decisions, almost incinerating a whole team and being bland

this was my reply, probably been said here already. but i havent read this one yet and didnt want to throw my text away:
i do not agree. i coiuld completely understand that scene in the episode. her situation was clearly a difficult one and comprehensible - the 10 seconds were needed to build up a certain tension.
the character is new to the role as the leader and is probably supposed to grow into it during the first season. it cannot be compared to the base leaders we already now from sg-1, they are military personnel with a career that involves a big deal of experience in leadership.
i think she will become a good leader capable of deciding accordingly, but still i expect to see iris-situations and other thrilling scenarios simply to make it nice to watch.