Boomer&Child & Other Questions.

[USA1290]

Greetings All: I was thinking & was wondering what you all thought:
Does anyone think maybe Boomers child will be the Cylon Leader [Imperious or otherwise]?

What kind of God do the Cylons believe in?

How do Cylons go to thier One God after death as they keep getting put in new bodies? [Do they go? I may have missed something]

Thanks 4 your time. It was slow @ work & these crossed my mind.
Stephen

[MASON]

What kind of God do the Cylons believe in?

How do Cylons go to thier One God after death as they keep getting put in new bodies? [Do they go? I may have missed something]

Thanks 4 your time. It was slow @ work & these crossed my mind.
Stephen

I always take the bait on these questions, both very intriguing.

It's hard to say what kind of God the Cylons believe in. The very nature of their relation to God is blurred by your second question, which I think is ultimately more interesting, and another clue to the Cylons' pursuit and nigh extermination of the human race.

You're right, if their consciousness is always redirected to another host body, and amalgamated with the consciousness and memories of others, then the Cylons are cheating death, and never actually reaching God. However, it's unclear whether they believe in an afterlife, so perhaps their communion with God exists as a worldly thing, and they believe they exist only to carry out his will.

On the other hand, and I think I've mentioned this in another thread, the Pegasus thread perhaps, they may be trying to hybridize with humans in order to develop a soul, whether they have one or not as they are seems to be up to them, and they seem somewhat doubtful(Leoben's fear of dying and being out of range of another host body).

But it raises another issue, the mimic-Cylons transfer their consciousness to other bodies, but it's unclear whether the Centurion, Raider, or even Baseship models do the same. I would be interested in any insights into the hierarchical structure of Cylon society, whether it all serves the mimic-Cylons, or whether there's something more to it (I hope it's a bit of both).

[anotherquestion]

It seems hard to say whether or not Boomer's child will be a Cylon at all, much less a leader of Cylons. After all there are few traits that separate Cylons from "genuine" Colonials and they are very hard to detect. Perhaps the non-Cylon genetic contribution of Helo will all manifest as dominant traits. Surely it will take years for the leadership potential of the child to develop (if it lives that long).

The Cylons might not have to wait for death to go to their one Cylon God, which may well be a living presence. There is no lack of earthly religious belief systems that posit an "afterlife" that allows for a personal immortality with God. Maybe the "regular" life of a human Cylon is like a conventional religious afterlife: virtual immortality lived out in serving the one true god?

If all Cylons "recycle" there conciousness (i.e. centurions, raiders, hu-lons, and basestars) then there must some limits in the capacity of that conciousness, new experiences must, at some point push out the older ones, unless the Cylons possess an inhuman third type of memory (short term, long term, and "eternal"). It may be very hard for Cylons to develop any kind of "breakthrough" thinking because they are so weighed down by the experience of their predecessors. This may make them terrific engineers, that endlessly refine and optimize existing concepts and designs, but it may impair them from "thinking outside the box".

It seems likely that the conciousness, when transferred, is from one adult mind to another, which leads to a whole other area of peculiarities. From where do Cylons develop a "maternal" or "paternal" instinct, assuming they live in a childless society populated by ever more experienced, but perpetually ageless adults of twelve varieties?

[MASON]

From where do Cylons develop a "maternal" or "paternal" instinct, assuming they live in a childless society populated by ever more experienced, but perpetually ageless adults of twelve varieties?

An interesting point, one which suggests a jealousy of human society, for why, when building new Cylons, would they ever consider dividing themselves by sex? Toasters, as far as I know, are neuter, or sexless, so, where did they get their instincts, indeed.

That they have these maternal and paternal instincts is highly significant, whether they're fully fleshed out is another (Six's treatment of a human child in the miniseries was horrific at best). But they're definitely developing a 1 and 0 concept universe: Where there is light, there must be darkness, where there is male, there must be female, where ther is God, there must be...

[MASON]

It seems hard to say whether or not Boomer's child will be a Cylon at all, much less a leader of Cylons. After all there are few traits that separate Cylons from "genuine" Colonials and they are very hard to detect. Perhaps the non-Cylon genetic contribution of Helo will all manifest as dominant traits. Surely it will take years for the leadership potential of the child to develop (if it lives that long).

It makes you wonder whether the child will take sides, whether she will consider herself more human or more Cylon. But it remains to be seen whether the child will survive childbirth and infancy.

The Cylons might not have to wait for death to go to their one Cylon God, which may well be a living presence. There is no lack of earthly religious belief systems that posit an "afterlife" that allows for a personal immortality with God. Maybe the "regular" life of a human Cylon is like a conventional religious afterlife: virtual immortality lived out in serving the one true god?

I'm largely in agreement with this idea, it makes the 12 human Cylons almost equivalent to something like angels. Quite frightening, really.

If all Cylons "recycle" there conciousness (i.e. centurions, raiders, hu-lons, and basestars) then there must some limits in the capacity of that conciousness, new experiences must, at some point push out the older ones, unless the Cylons possess an inhuman third type of memory (short term, long term, and "eternal"). It may be very hard for Cylons to develop any kind of "breakthrough" thinking because they are so weighed down by the experience of their predecessors. This may make them terrific engineers, that endlessly refine and optimize existing concepts and designs, but it may impair them from "thinking outside the box".

I've wondered about this myself, it reminds me of the Bene Gesserit in Dune, Frank Herbert made it clear that only intense training and dsciplined minds, aided by the spice melange, could handle such amalgams of consciousness. RDM complicates this for the Cylons, for the Bene Gesserit could always tell the personalities apart, but the Cylons are all the same Sharon, so personal identity could be a serious crisis for some models.

It will be interesting whether, as this thread indirectly implies, Sharon's child will prove to be an abomination, or the Kwisatz Haderach.

[designez]

I think it was said somewhere that the child will be prophet that will unite humans and cylons...

[Blue Banrigh]

I think it was said somewhere that the child will be prophet that will unite humans and cylons...

Can't recall that one being mentioned. The Face of the Shape of Things to Come yes, but prophet, no.

[BubblingOverWithIdeas]

"An interesting point, one which suggests a jealousy of human society, for why, when building new Cylons, would they ever consider dividing themselves by sex? Toasters, as far as I know, are neuter, or sexless, so, where did they get their instincts, indeed."
Well, umm, they patterned the new models after humans, and you'd be hard-pressed to find a human being with neither sex nor gender.

"That they have these maternal and paternal instincts is highly significant, whether they're fully fleshed out is another (Six's treatment of a human child in the miniseries was horrific at best). But they're definitely developing a 1 and 0 concept universe: Where there is light, there must be darkness, where there is male, there must be female, where ther is God, there must be..."
Horrific? She clearly saw it as a merciful act. It was certainly quick and not painful. And according to most Eastern religions, which Leobon seems to follow, God is masculine and feminine, darkness and light. God is everything, "good" and "bad" (good and bad being subjective not objective qualities which humans apply to things).

[BubblingOverWithIdeas]

Leobon sounds Buddhist and Number Six sounds Born-again Christian. Sharon is religious but doesn't prostelytize. According to RDM each model has a different religious interpretation.

[MASON]

Leobon sounds Buddhist and Number Six sounds Born-again Christian. Sharon is religious but doesn't prostelytize. According to RDM each model has a different religious interpretation.

And according to most Eastern religions, which Leobon seems to follow, God is masculine and feminine, darkness and light. God is everything, "good" and "bad" (good and bad being subjective not objective qualities which humans apply to things).

Woah! Hold up!

Where did you hear that each of the 12 human-like Cylons has a different religious interpretation? I've only heard him say that they each have distinctly different personalities. RDM has also made it clear that he doesn't want religion in BSG to follow any one real-world example, so I wouldn't place too much stock in your posit that Leoben is Buddhist. It sounds like you're extrapolating too far on Moore's words from the Fandom interview. (If you have a source, please cite it, I would be very interested. )

Well, umm, they patterned the new models after humans, and you'd be hard-pressed to find a human being with neither sex nor gender.

Believe me, I'm well aware that they're basing themselves on humans. It is the fact that the Cylons did so which makes them unusual, they seem to possess creative faculties in their A.I., so they could have come up with a completely original organism, one which was more of an evolution of their origin of computers and machines; machines don't need sexes, they reproduce by assembly, and human-like Cylons apparently reproduce in batches of some kind, by an undisclosed method of replication. So it is significant that they see a weakness in this for their sustainment as a race, and that they look to that of human sexual reproduction as a superior model. They could have modelled themselves after any kind of animal, but they chose humans. This, I think, is indicative that they are being guided by a human-like being.

If you argue that they are envious of their human creators for having given them a form that is but a shadow of a human's in that of an android body, then I argue that this is not their concern, for they have created the raiders and baseships which have nothing in common with android or human form.

Horrific? She clearly saw it as a merciful act. It was certainly quick and not painful.

I would say that your interpretation has its basis, however, my interpretation of Six's killing of the child was jealousy. Six wants love, Six wants a child, the human race has those, but she cannot is challenged in both (so far ), so instead she takes their lives.

[BubblingOverWithIdeas]

"Woah! Hold up!

Where did you hear that each of the 12 human-like Cylons has a different religious interpretation? I've only heard him say that they each have distinctly different personalities. RDM has also made it clear that he doesn't want religion in BSG to follow any one real-world example, so I wouldn't place too much stock in your posit that Leoben is Buddhist. It sounds like you're extrapolating too far on Moore's words from the Fandom interview. (If you have a source, please cite it, I would be very interested. )"

Well, Leobon is Buddhist-like and Natasi is born again Christian-like is more accurate. RDM said each model has a different intrepretation in an interview from way back in Season One and I don't know where to find it now.

[BubblingOverWithIdeas]

"I would say that your interpretation has its basis, however, my interpretation of Six's killing of the child was jealousy. Six wants love, Six wants a child, the human race has those, but she cannot is challenged in both (so far ), so instead she takes their lives."
I've thought so myself. It was likely a combination of factors.

[Caprice]

Horrific? She clearly saw it as a merciful act.

I agree with this assessment. I'm not sure I could have done the same- definetly not to my own, but I can see that point of view very well.