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GateWorld
November 21st, 2005, 02:54 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/214.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/214.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">ATLANTIS SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/214.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none"><B>GRACE UNDER PRESSURE</B></A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 214</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
When Dr. McKay is trapped underwater in a sinking Puddle Jumper, his only chance for survival may be an hallucination of Samantha Carter.

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/214.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

AcidSquid
December 12th, 2005, 04:48 PM
Best Mckay/Carter episode yet, (wink wink, Nudge nudge)
Mckay asks carter to take her shirt off, She doesn't but half-way through this episode she does

AcidSquid
December 12th, 2005, 05:04 PM
Great episode,
BTW
Carter Takes her top off EDIT: Not all the way

Taonas
December 12th, 2005, 05:07 PM
Best Mckay/Carter episode yet, (wink wink, Nudge nudge)
Mckay asks carter to take her shirt off, She doesn't but half-way through this episode she does

It was a good episode, lot's of great moments and the most indef look at Rodney's character... Plus it had Carter :P

The Carter taking top off was both funny and quite.... um, well attractive would be the best way to describe it.

Anyway, other highlights:
1. The shield on the jumper
2. Zelenka speaking in Czech and Sheppard understanding :P
3. The whale, don't ask why... It was just cool

AcidSquid
December 12th, 2005, 05:16 PM
Do you get Cogeco cable?
Anyone?

Scarym1
December 12th, 2005, 05:17 PM
Just had to pop in quickly and say just how Absolutely amazing this ep is. David Hewlett is incredible. I just loved it. It was a great to see McKay and Carter together again.

jazz!
December 12th, 2005, 05:39 PM
Best Mckay/Carter episode yet, (wink wink, Nudge nudge)
Mckay asks carter to take her shirt off, She doesn't but half-way through this episode she does

Wha!

Sheesh! The genius can't even control his own hallucination.

How I envy you who have seen it already :(

corey2002
December 12th, 2005, 06:01 PM
why did they have to calibrate the jumper to create a shield?
we know from The Defiant One that it already has one

smushybird
December 12th, 2005, 06:04 PM
For god's sake, we're dying out here. Throw us some bones. Detailed summary, cute moments, exciting rescue? Screencaps? :D I've been in an agony of suspense all evening and I need spoiling bad. :eek: ;)

AcidSquid
December 12th, 2005, 06:04 PM
Okie, The Wraith Put the sheild on the jumper ( You need ata you use any ancient technology on that level of importance)

MajorSam
December 12th, 2005, 07:17 PM
one word...


SCREENCAPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

another word...

NOW!!!!!!

:D

the dancer of spaz
December 12th, 2005, 07:49 PM
one word...


SCREENCAPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

another word...

NOW!!!!!!

:D

Just had to put emphasis on the NOW. ;)

I'm still in shock that there was a Disrobing of The Carter :eek:

Stevo
December 12th, 2005, 08:45 PM
delete

Lexa Jayde
December 12th, 2005, 09:45 PM
spoilers... hello where are you people who have seen it....

SCREENCAPS!!!!!!!!!!!

Dorka
December 12th, 2005, 11:35 PM
Yeah...please....we want to know more than Carter taking off her top *coughts* think at people who have to wait one more day :D

Question: do we have to make spoiler tags even if we are in the episode-thread??? my logic just says that those who come read here, either wants to be spoiled or already seen this ep... but maybe it's just me *lalalalal*

Franklyn Blaze
December 13th, 2005, 12:30 AM
My first screencap post, I hope this goes okay.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/mascal00/Cartersmile.gif
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/mascal00/CarterOMG.gif
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/mascal00/Carter1.gif
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/mascal00/Carter2.gif
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/mascal00/Carter3.gif
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/mascal00/Carter4.gif
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/mascal00/Carter5.gif
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/mascal00/Carter6.gif
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/mascal00/Carter7.gif
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/mascal00/carter8.gif
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/mascal00/jumperSHIELDS.gif
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/mascal00/whale.gif

AutumnDream
December 13th, 2005, 12:45 AM
Now that was WEIRD. Really not what I was expecting.

Crazy!McKay had me convinced. Yet more acting skill points for DH. Interesting how Sam wasn't acting like herself. She seemed WAY different from SG-1 Sam... which is very much realistic because McKay doesn't know her that well. I loved the "I'm smarter but you're wiser thing". I'm such a huge sucker for McKay that I'd believe he's smarter, so I can totally go with that theory. ^_^ Poor Tomato-man. Aww. That was cool, with the extended shield thing. The whole episode went so fast... usually Atlantis episodes have three or four things going on at once. It was strange just seeing Atlantis and the Jumper. I wonder what kind of character development happened in this one and what kind of changes we might see in McKay in the future...

flippy18
December 13th, 2005, 01:16 AM
My first screencap post, I hope this goes okay.


Thank you :)

I thought this one was particularly lovely
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/mascal00/carter8.gif

Merlin7
December 13th, 2005, 02:19 AM
Rodney fans will be thrilled with the ep. Twas another Rodney lovefest from TPTB.

As not a Rodney fan and Not a Sam fan...not much of an ep from my POV.

I did adore the Shep and Zelenka bits though and the special effects at the end with the jumpers and the sea critter were amazing.

SmallTimePerson
December 13th, 2005, 02:32 AM
why did they have to calibrate the jumper to create a shield?
we know from The Defiant One that it already has one
Joe said that the shield was of wraith design b4, but he must have changed his mind. The wraith modified the PJ to put on the shield in the defaint one, and while i havent seen this episode, i guess Mckay had to as well.

Greg
December 13th, 2005, 02:32 AM
*gasps*

shockwave
December 13th, 2005, 03:10 AM
this ep was boring, critical mass was much better
season 2 isn't as good as season 1

jazz!
December 13th, 2005, 03:16 AM
My first screencap post, I hope this goes okay.


pictures of sam in ...... or rather out of......

*Speechless!*
*Head smacks keyboard*

Danke!


Rodney fans will be thrilled with the ep. Twas another Rodney lovefest from TPTB.
...........

Surely those who admire Sam should be content with this ep too.




this ep was boring, critical mass was much better
season 2 isn't as good as season 1

S1 has opened the arcs and S2 has allowed more standalone episodes to be created.
I think S2 is great!

MartoufMarty
December 13th, 2005, 03:34 AM
I just watched this episode (got up at 5:00am to watch it from tape) and really enjoyed it. I love McKay so of course I'd like it.

It was funny and I felt sorry for McKay. Also loved how much Zelenka there was in the episode.

John: "I think my Czech is getting better because I know what you mean."

John seemed a little excited with his plan.

"This is my halucination. Why aren't you naked?"

And the beginning... "Oh yeah, the Barcelona McKays."

My mom on the other hand, thought it was boring and went to the computer halfway through. Pfft.

David Hewlett is seriously my hero. He is so great.

berenikee
December 13th, 2005, 03:39 AM
This was great episode. McKay was briliant. John was ok, but I loved Radek, he was great, great, great :D

Stevo
December 13th, 2005, 03:49 AM
good episode, not great just character development, more zelenka was good and I like how there showing more atlantis instead of the same set all the time. OH!! and i loved the mckays "You drive a hard bargin but we have a deal" freak out lol

Blue Banrigh
December 13th, 2005, 06:07 AM
I liked the episode.

Poor Tomato Guy, I had a feeling he was going to be a red shirt. Kinda wished he survived (for a second I thought, 'Hey! Maybe TPTB aren't going to kill him, alas I was wrong). Hehehe, Tomato Guys said Eye-talian.

It was nice to see what goes on in Rodney's head, how he thinks through his problems. It was cool to see all the fear, panic, doubt and anger surface.

The sea creature so turned out to be Lassie of the Deep.

smushybird
December 13th, 2005, 06:24 AM
good episode, not great just character development, more zelenka was good and I like how there showing more atlantis instead of the same set all the time. OH!! and i loved the mckays "You drive a hard bargin but we have a deal" freak out lol

When was that?

And how did they manage the rescue?

Vicious
December 13th, 2005, 06:49 AM
I just saw this episode a few minutes ago. It was awesome. During this season i've noticed they are putting Rodney through alot of trials and growing him as a character. IMHO they are setting Rodney up for something big, really big. TPTB are doing all these growth episodes with a purpose. A big purpose. Ok, i'm done ranting. Great episode, very emotional.

Arlessiar
December 13th, 2005, 06:53 AM
I just watched it a few minutes ago and I admit that I'm still in the middle of the "emotional aftermath", but I just have to get this out, it's not very constructive but it's really annoying me: I feel so betrayed! I knew from the first moment that I heard about this episode how it would end. Two days ago I posted on another thread that I really hope that there will be no "get ready to be rescued - bye, bye Sam - credits" ending, and what did I get? Exactly this stupid ending! There wasn't even one second of comfort after all this hurt Rodney went through. No talk about what happened. No aftermath in any way. No Beckett (and also no Teyla and Ronon btw) in the whole episode. Nothing about the fact that they did come and rescue him, that he could trust them, that Zelenka, whom he blames for the whole thing, comes to his rescue! It sure as hell won't be addressed in the next episode judging from anything we've seen regarding continuity in this series, so why was there NOTHING?
Don't get me wrong, it was a good episode, I liked very much about it. But the ending didn't feel sufficient to me. Sweet, but not sufficient. And yes, that bothers me.

- DH was amazing as always. This man and his performance never cease to amaze me. All these emotions in his voice, which is changing almost every second... great! And I loved how he wanted to make clear that he thinks that he's brilliant - and handsome!
- I'm not such a big fan of the fact that Rodney adores Sam so much, so I feared this episode a little. The lingerie & a kiss scene was somehow consequential, but I didn't like it so much. The rest of their "conversation" was good though, 'Sam' trying to convince him to trust his friends. I guess that's one of the things Rodney learnt from Sam when he was at the SGC - that friends care for each other and that they don't leave someone behind. But it's still hard for him to believe that he himself has friends now and needs to trust them (maybe the events of "Trinity" also have to do with that)
- Griffin sacrificing himself for Rodney, even after everything Rodney says to him - this scene really got me crying. Very intense.
- What I did miss was a little bit of fear/anxiety/worry in Atlantis. Yes, they were busy planning the rescue, and they were acting quickly and needed a clear mind for that, but somehow I missed emotions. Where was the real reason why they had to hurry, the urgency? I mean, it was possible that McKay and Griffin were both dead already. Zelenka addresses that shortly, but apart from that that there was nothing that gave me the feeling that they even considered that their friend might already be fish fodder. Optimistic bunch of people I guess.
- I already said it - where were Beckett, Teyla and Ronon? Shouldn't they at least have been in the background somewhere? Expressing their worry somehow?
- Zelenka was great, working hard for a solution and then fearing to go on the rescue mission. Maybe he wasn't only afraid of the mission itself but also because he was, like Rodney says, responsible for the repair of the PJ and just didn't dare to test it himself? Well, but he overcomes his fear and goes with Sheppard. Good boy. :)
And he wore a lab coat again, yeah!!! :D

It's possible I got that wrong, so I ask: Did Sheppard actually call Rodney "Roddy" in the end (via radio)?

All in all a 7 out of 10 epsiode for me.

Bye, A.

macktheknife
December 13th, 2005, 06:55 AM
Awesome zalenka episode, he's become one of my favourite characters.

AND CARTER!!OMG

It was a great episode, with the mind freak outs (as good as Futuramas "The Sting") and the "interaction" between mckay and himself.

I felt sorry for tomato-man, and I almost thought he would'nt get killed (especially after the "get into the rear" thin), but then they killed the poor bloke. I was thinking however "If he does'nt die, he's going to annoy the hell out of me for the entire episode". I was hoping he would be in a coma the whole time, so we don't have to kill him, but don't need to have him in the ep.

I really have no idea what teyla or ronon would have done, so they don't need to be in the episode, and no real reason for beckett either (at most it could have been a few "after blah time he'll die from cold"). The lack of characters (compared to critical mass) made this better than if they gave every man and his dog a line or two.

Wraith_Hunter
December 13th, 2005, 07:00 AM
Another Wrecked PJ. Think of the watsed Claoking Genny & Drones that are gone.

Hope they can recharge the modified Jumper up enough & go back to it before the currents sweep it off the ledge & down any further. This way they they can strip off the drive pods, the turrets that house the drones & also the cloaking generator. Which I'm sure Hermiod could pretty easily integrate into the Daedalus Asgard systems, conisdering that it's sheild is of Asgard design.

So hopefully we'll here something about it later on in S2, rather than just letting all that tech float to thebottom of the Ocean & be gone forever.

IWantToBelieve
December 13th, 2005, 07:09 AM
*shaking head*

I knew going into it I probably wouldn't like this episode and I wasn't surprised.

I pray to god we are not subjected anymore to the hallucination of people during dire peril again. It sucked in the SG-1 episode and that was when I could put my finger on this episode and say 'it all went wrong'.

No Ronon or Teyla in the episode.

No Beckett in the episode.

You know, I could go on about what I didn't like so I'm not gonna bother.

It's an episode that I won't watch again *shrug*. There's been good and there's been bad this season, but I will say this, I'll be wary of any episode written by Binder. For me, he continues to fall flat. The only episode he's written that I've enjoyed was Aurora.

For the rest, he focuses too much on McKay and leaves the rest hanging without much to work with. That's dissappointing.

macktheknife
December 13th, 2005, 07:12 AM
I pray to god we are not subjected anymore to the hallucination of people during dire peril again.

I agree with you there, this "style" of episode should be well and truly finished.

Blue Banrigh
December 13th, 2005, 07:15 AM
It's possible I got that wrong, so I ask: Did Sheppard actually call Rodney "Roddy" in the end (via radio)?
Am pretty sure he called him 'buddy'.

smushybird
December 13th, 2005, 07:17 AM
I just watched it a few minutes ago and I admit that I'm still in the middle of the "emotional aftermath", but I just have to get this out, it's not very constructive but it's really annoying me: I feel so betrayed! I knew from the first moment that I heard about this episode how it would end. Two days ago I posted on another thread that I really hope that there will be no "get ready to be resuced - bye, bye Sam - credits" ending, and what did I get? Exactly this stupid ending! There wasn't even one second of comfort after all this hurt Rodney went through. No talk about what happened. No aftermath in any way.


Aw damn. :( I should have known better than to get my hopes up. This is Stargate, after all. The writers for these two shows remind me of Karen Walker on Will & Grace during an emotional moment.... "Can't talk! Feeling something!"...and she runs away. :D
God forbid any of the characters let any of their emotions show after the trauma of nearly losing someone they care about to a horrible death. :rolleyes:

sueKay
December 13th, 2005, 07:20 AM
I'm sure from a humerous POV this episode will be great...but why must there be nudity...doesn't appeal to me anyway...

hmm...and here was me thinking Stargate had a different demographic to please than most sci fi shows....

Arlessiar
December 13th, 2005, 07:25 AM
Am pretty sure he called him 'buddy'. Oh. Yes, that's possible. And much more likely than that what I heard! :) Thanks!

Bye, A.

jazz!
December 13th, 2005, 07:26 AM
I'm sure from a humerous POV this episode will be great...but why must there be nudity...doesn't appeal to me anyway...

hmm...and here was me thinking Stargate had a different demographic to please than most sci fi shows....

partial nudity :p

lol.......I'm sure if it was Danny, T, Jack......... ya'll would be screaming for more :D

Blue Banrigh
December 13th, 2005, 07:35 AM
The partially dressed Sam didn't bother me cause it was in context. She was McKay's hallucination and she was trying to distract him, what else could she do?

caty
December 13th, 2005, 08:02 AM
I hate to say it, but yet another Atlantis episode that disappointed me!

I think they are focusing waaaaay too much on McKay and it is really getting annoying! Don't get me wrong, I love McKay, but there are other characters like Beckett, Teyla and Ronon who didn't even show up in this episode.

Although I'm a Sheppard Fan, I thought last episode (Critical Mass) was one of the best this season because it was a solid team epsiode. Seems like we don't get those that much anymore...

The ending was rushed again. I get the impression that they waste too much time at the beginning and don't have enough left at the end (same as in 'Epiphany')...

Please, PTB stop the McKay routine, or Atlantis will lose a lot of its fans.

d3u5
December 13th, 2005, 08:18 AM
Zelenka's translation:

Do prdele, to je na hovno tohle to. Kdo to vymyslel, že budeme pod vodou, tentokrát...?

****, it's screwed up this. Who's idea was, we'll be under water, this time?

Edit: "****" is the "F-word"... :o)

Erised
December 13th, 2005, 08:37 AM
OMG Last time I laughed like that was during Window of Opportunity!!
This episode was hilarious!
loved it!!! :D :D :D :D

jazz!
December 13th, 2005, 08:48 AM
Really? as good as WoO?
That is high praise!

Erised
December 13th, 2005, 09:47 AM
I wouldn't say AS good.. but AS funny, you know what I mean?

Arlessiar
December 13th, 2005, 09:57 AM
I’m actually trying to eat dinner, make screencaps and watch the episode again at the same time, and now I will also try to write this summary some people on other threads requested. I won’t go into every detail though, and I apologize for any mistakes:

Summary "Grace under pressure"
(Oh, I just realize that 'pressure' is a double entendre in this ep)

McKay and a pilot named Griffins are in a Puddle Jumper, returning home from the mainland. They are testing the PJ because it was damaged and had been repaired. The pilot talks about a lot of meaningless stuff (tomatoes for example), getting on McKay’s nerve because he’s trying to work. Suddenly something goes wrong, McKay tried to figure out what the problem is, but it’s too late. The PJ gets down, crashes into the water and starts to sink. --> Opening credits
McKay’s regains consciousness. He gets up from the ground, and one can see that he has a bleeding head wound. Griffins is also injured but alive. Zelenka is talking to McKay via radio. He was obviously trying to contact them for some time now after the PJ vanished from the city’s sensors. Together they establish that they are in trouble, because they are under water - and still sinking. But soon there’s another problem. The windshield cracks. McKay and Griffins try to get into the rear compartment of the jumper, but they can’t close the bulkhead door. McKay blames Griffins that he got them into this mess, and while he does so, Griffins goes back to the front part of the jumper, wishes McKay good luck and seals the door with the front controls. Shortly after that Rodney hears that the windshield breaks. Griffin is dead. (This scene is really pretty intense!) Rodney goes into panic mode soon after. The radio is dead because the transmitter was in the front compartment. Rodney desperately tries to get his claustrophobia under control.
In Atlantis they discuss a possible rescue, but first they have to locate the jumper. Zelenka’s starting to work on that with a team. Sheppard has the idea to lift the jumper with special equipment and has a team working on that. He wants to submerge another jumper for that, something he and Rodney obviously wanted to try for a long time.
Meanwhile Rodney has calmed down in the still sinking jumper. He talks to himself a lot in the following scenes while he tries to think of a way to send a message or slow down the rate in which the ship is sinking. He also addresses the jumper as if it was a person when he discovers that he only has about 3 hours of energy left if he boosts up the transmitter signal and raises the temperature in the jumper. Soon it seems as if he’s slowly losing it, he’s talking to himself, half crying, half laughing. Then he hears something outside, it sounds like a whale, and he talks to it too, jokingly telling the animal to tell his friends where he is. This triggers the idea to move the jumper like a submarine. He starts to work on that. After some time Sam Carter appears (in a pink jacket, the zipper very low…). Rodney can’t believe it at first when she tells him that she’s only a hallucination, but she explains that this is caused by his head wound. She’s denying Rodney the romping he’s hoping for, and together they start working on the problem to get the jumper to move.
Radek has narrowed down the area in which they have to search but fears the jumper’s too deep already. Sheppard suggests to turn the cloak of another PJ into a shield, just the other way round as they did with the city (in the last episode). Zelenka thinks it’s possible, and John wants to start with the search. He wants Zelenka to come with him. Radek’s objecting since he obviously fears this and says that he cannot even swim, but finally he decides to come along.
Sam tries to convince Rodney not to continue with his plan so that he doesn’t jeopardize the rescue mission. She wants him to wait and to trust his friends to come to help him. Rodney doesn’t want to stop working. He doesn’t think they are planning his rescue but rather his memorial service. And he can’t believe that his own hallucination/subconscious is trying to convince him to ‘give up’ and slow him down. Suddenly the jumper hits the bottom of the ocean. Micro fractures in the hull let water through, which is rising quickly. Sam tells Rodney to increase the air pressure to slow down the leaking. Rodney does, and it works. He hugs Sam, saying that if she’s his hallucination she could at least lose her top! Rodney also admits that he always wanted to work together with Sam and that they’d make a good team, although he’s arrogant and bad with people. And he also states that Sam might be physically attracted to him, but she switches the topic then. Rodney continues to work on a way to control the jumper from his workpad and tells Sam to be quiet if she doesn’t want to help. Sam states that this is the reason she could never have a relationship with him, because he never listens to other people and doesn’t trust him. Rodney asks how he should trust them, after all it was Zelenka’s fault that he’s trapped down here now, because Zelenka supervised the jumper repairs but didn’t dare to go on a test flight himself and asked Rodney to do it.
Sheppard and Zelenka have started the mission and successfully submerge their jumper. They initialize the shield, but it needs a lot of power and they don’t have much time now to find the other PJ.
Sam tries to distract Rodney so that he stops working. She gets rid of some of her clothes, suddenly standing in front of Rodney with only a bra on. They kiss a few times, until Rodney realizes that she’s only trying to slow him down. He gets back to work and tries to start the jumper, but it fails. He only wasted power, and the water’s rising again.
Sheppard and Radek see the ‘sea monster’, obviously the whale Rodney heard before, on the sensor display. It circles around something, so they decide to search there.
Inside of the jumper there isn’t much air left, the water is nearly at the ceiling. Rodney thinks about Griffin’s sacrifice and what a brave man he was compared to himself. Hypothermia is setting in and he nearly loses consciousness. Sam tells him to hold on. Rodney admits that he should have listened to Sam not to try to move the jumper. He states that she isn’t smarter than him but wiser, and Sam tells him that at least he was right subconsciously, since she is his subconscious.
Zelenka and Sheppard find the jumper, but since it’s nearly full of water they can’t pull it up to the surface. They land and extend the shield so that it covers both jumpers. John walks out and contacts Rodney via radio, he wants him to open the hatch. But Rodney thinks this may just be another hallucination. Finally Sam convinces him that Sheppard is real. Rodney opens the door, but it doesn’t work, so he dives and uses the secondary release Sam reminds him of. The water leaves the jumper and Radek and John come in and help Rodney to get up. They walk through the tunnel the shield creates, the whale who helped them to find Rodney is circling above them. Then they sit Rodney down on the bench and hurry to the front department. In the moment the hatch closes Rodney looks to the wreckage and sees Sam standing there, waving goodbye.

Credits and end.

Bye, A.

jazz!
December 13th, 2005, 09:59 AM
I wouldn't say AS good.. but AS funny, you know what I mean?

A ha! Got ya! Excuse my denseness :rolleyes:

Comedy + Zelenka + McKay + Sam ;) -> perfect, I couldn't ask for more
I can't wait to see it!:(


Whoa! Nice one! Arlessiar

angeltorri
December 13th, 2005, 11:19 AM
I loved this ep, it was very very good :p
Amanda was beautiful and i loved when sam kiss rodney :rolleyes: i like the sam/jack shipp but i loved this moment between rodney and sam.
i appreciated a lot the submarine landscape, in the end when we saw a whale... beautiful. And when exchange a last glance... really moving

http://delcroixjeanluc.free.fr/214/Sans%20titre%2083.jpg
:rolleyes:

if somebody want i have extract and i made a vid:

extract
Sam ?! (http://delcroixjeanluc.free.fr/214/sam.wmv)
Sam & Rodney (http://delcroixjeanluc.free.fr/214/samet%20mckay.wmv)
Bye bye (http://delcroixjeanluc.free.fr/214/bye.wmv)
Why did youd it that??!! (http://delcroixjeanluc.free.fr/214/whatdidyoudithat.wmv)

my vid:

Grace Under Pressure (http://delcroixjeanluc.free.fr/214/graceunderpressure.wmv)
musique: Hymn of the sea, James Horner

Chlex
December 13th, 2005, 12:04 PM
That episode impressed me. Why do I get the impression that the writers really love writing for McKay? DH completely rocked my socks, I love the way he does Crazy!McKay. I thought it was great when he was hopped up on the enzyme, but he was so much better as his delusional self. It was so realistic, the way he couldn't determine what was real and what wasn't.

CARTER! Just perfect with McKay, as always. If I wasn't already shipping them with other people, I'd totally lock those two up in a closet. Love how McKay naturally assumes he's God's gift to mankind... I thought his complex would wear off by now, but I'm so glad that it hasn't. *hearts*

The bra moment was a little too Battlestar Galactica... but so hilarious. Am I going crazy, or did he call her Lt Col Cylon? Never knew McKay had it in him to just GO at her like that. Wow, talk about pent up frustration. Yum.

I'm slightly annoyed by Zelenka! How coud he NOT jump at the chance to brave the ocean, risk his own life, and rescue Rodney? *pouts* Weir's reaction lacked some urgecy too... but Shep made up for most of it. I definitely got a warm/mushy feeling when he said 'Hey buddy' to McKay... then called for Rodney to open the door, all worried and concerned. *coughs* Sorry, slasher in me notices these things, I can't help it.


Random Caps:
1 (http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c214/bgc455/r3.jpg) 2 (http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c214/bgc455/r1.jpg) 3 (http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c214/bgc455/r2.jpg) 4 (http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c214/bgc455/r4.jpg) 5 (http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c214/bgc455/r5.jpg)

xfkirsten
December 13th, 2005, 12:27 PM
Okay, a lot of my major points have already been covered, so I'll add a few of my thoughts...

First of all, loved this ep. Loved the Rodney scenes in this one. Another homerun for David Hewlett. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: will someone please just give DH an Emmy?! His babbling and hallucinating was absolutely hilarious. Plenty of great Rodney lines that came out of this one! And I love that it was really him coming up with ideas all along, despite his insecurities.

I also like the discussion that "Carter" raised about Rodney's trust issues. I definitely think there's more here! The stuff about Rodney blaming Zelenka - I almost wonder if Zelenka wasn't blaming himself (not neccessarily correctly, mind you) as well, hence the hesitation in Weir's office.

In the end, though, I gotta ask this: does Atlantis have their own Flipper now? :D I hereby dub him Flipper, the Funky Atlantis Humpback Whale.

And if Atlantis needs a cetacean biologist, I volunteer! :D

obsessed1
December 13th, 2005, 12:31 PM
SPOILERS...if you dont want spoilers, well then i'm not sure you're in the right thread.


I thought it was a good episode in terms of Mckay. DH had a chance to flex his endless acting skills and for that reason alone i wont completely slate the ep. It was also interesting to see how arrogant Mckay really is. He honestly believes that he is the only one who can save himself and gives the rest of the team no credit.
I find that a little strange myself considering Shep is his friend. He knows how smart he is and that he has a 'dont leave men behind complex' If anything Shep would die trying to save him rather than not attempting it at all.
So it was good, it was just....well.......I like Shep so I would have rather it had been Sheppard trapped under the water, (He's a pilot so he could have been flying the jumper when it went down) His hallucinations might have been better, you could haven angled (Water pun not intended) for some backstory, the whole left behind thing????? I dunno....i digress somewhat.
ANd yes SGA is getting a case of SG1itous in the snese that they are cutting eps short and not giving us that crucial team bit/character bonding/I guess you didnt leave me behind/ etc etc bit at the end. It was the rather sudden, door closes...the end.

Easter Lily
December 13th, 2005, 12:44 PM
The bra moment was a little too Battlestar Galactica... but so hilarious. Am I going crazy, or did he call her Lt Col Cylon? Never knew McKay had it in him to just GO at her like that. Wow, talk about pent up frustration. Yum. ]
Hubs was pretty sure he said, "Lt Col Siren"... as in the "sirens" from the Odyssey...

"In Greek mythology, the Sirens or Seirenes (Greek Σειρῆνας) were Naiads (sea nymphs) who lived on an island called Sirenum scopuli which was surrounded by cliffs and rocks. Approaching sailors were drawn to them by their enchanting singing, causing them to sail on the cliffs and drown."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siren

Chlex
December 13th, 2005, 12:51 PM
Hubs was pretty sure he said, "Lt Col Siren"... as in the "sirens" from the Odyssey...


Siren! Yes, that makes way more sense than Cylon, or Simon... thanks Easter Lily. ;)

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
December 13th, 2005, 01:28 PM
Damn was that a great episode, 2nd best of the season (behind Conversion takes the cake). I give it a **** (using GW (http://www.gateworld.net/ratings.shtml)'s rating System.)

Carter in a bra, damn was that awesome.
Sam's comments about McKay were interesting.
Cool visual effects.

Man, I can't wait for Ripple Effect.

If SGA was on Showtime, some of McKay's words (at the beginning of the episode, after the crash) would have totally been changed. And I personally, would have given the green light for that.

Tara
December 13th, 2005, 01:31 PM
This episode was okay. It was interesting that Carter didn't really seem in character for me either. And okay, for her, that pink sweater with the zipper down is pretty provacative. And... pink? Anyway, like someone else said, that's okay because it wasn't really Carter, just his image of her.

I thought Weir teasing Sheppard about wanting to try the submersion thing felt a little out of place, but maybe she was just trying to keep the modd lighter.

I did prefer Critical Mass, just more going on. But I liked parts of this. I did really like the big whale part.

Erised
December 13th, 2005, 01:33 PM
Lol I hope that some day they will make a REAL crossover episode with Sam. McKay will be all weird around her and she wouldn't know why, and they will fight over who's smarter again! :D :D It's as good as Daniel - Vala conversations! No wait, it's even better! :D :D

Easter Lily
December 13th, 2005, 01:35 PM
This episode was, in my opinion, strangely moving. Strange, because I didn't like the original Grace episode and watching this, I remember and realise why.
Rodney McKay is probably the best developed character on Atlantis and it seemed to me much more believable that he would be in such a situation and react the way he did. It is important that we see the best and worst of Rodney here... ranting and ravng... and yet when push comes to shove, he is not completely insensitive to the goodness all around him. David Hewlett, I think is brilliant enough to carry it through without it turning into a complete bore fest. But more importantly, the episode is much more concerned about survival, and showing Sheppard and Zelenka doing their darndest really eases any McKay overload.
As for the "moving" aspects... there were those little and unexpected acts of heroism: Griffin (I didn't think anybody could be as grating as Rodney) sacrificing himself and pushing Rodney into the rear compartment, Zelenka reluctantly consenting to go with Sheppard after Weir says to him, "If Rodney can't depend on you to help him, who can he depend on?" and Rodney, finally accepting the inevitable and facing death head on. I like the the fact that Sheppard would have ordered Zelenka to accompany him if it came to that. I like it when Sheppard finally made contact with Rodney at the end... he called him buddy. I also liked it that Rodney's Sam... the subconscious, always believed that he would be rescued.

The development that Rodney got here is what I think Sheppard should have got in Epiphany. He needed it far more... :D We've seen lots of angsty Rodney already this season... we really didn't NEED anymore but it's not to say that there weren't some priceless moments. There are parallels with Epiphany... characters trapped, characters in despair accompanied by attractive distractions. The difference in Grace Under Pressure was that the distraction had a purpose. :D

I liked Rodney's Sam Carter... she had the spark and vibrance (and even the snark) that Ascended female romantic interest of the week lacked.

Also this episode has shades of Thirty-Eight Minutes... in fact it has more in comon with that episode than with the original Grace. I don't have problems with people hallucinating as a result of trauma if done well. As for why Teyla and Ronon weren't there... I have a theory. They're probably on shore leave... ;) Teyla keeping to Athosian tradition of a one month mourning period. Ronon tags along because he's into Athosian cuisine.

Several months ago, I asked Joe Mallozzi if we'd see water vessels on Atlantis and this must've been what he meant when he said, "Check out the second half of Season 2". I would love to see more of this kind of thing especially now we know that there's a sea monster swimming around. I wouldn't mind seeing more of the ocean in future episodes.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
December 13th, 2005, 01:36 PM
http://img428.imageshack.us/img428/1313/whale4zq.gif
The whale sounded like the Hump-back whale sound from Star Trek IV.

And don't worry, I uploaded the image to imageshack, right-clicking the pic and selecting properties will confirm this)

xfkirsten
December 13th, 2005, 01:41 PM
The whale sounded like the Hump-back whale sound from Star Trek IV.

And don't worry, I uploaded the image to imageshack, right-clicking the pic and selecting properties will confirm this)

I noticed that, as well. It sounded like the probe - not what a humpback would actually sound like underwater. It also had some of the basic physical characteristics of a humpback - very elongated pectoral flippers, the same general size (although going back to look this one was a bit larger) and body shape... hence the reason I called it a Funky Atlantis Humpback Whale. :D

starfox
December 13th, 2005, 01:43 PM
I'll do a full review later, but if I don't get my initial squee out I will explode from fangirl-ness.



I hearts McKay. I hearts McKay muchly. David Hewlett, you really need to stop being so awesome; it's distracting me from things that I would be criticizing otherwise (this may be why the writers give him so much stuff; us fangirling David = not paying attention to dropped plot points).

The hypoxia freak-out cut was very BSG. It was interesting, though; jarring and brought home how messed up things were inside McKay's head at that point.

Zelenka speaking in Czech always makes me happy, this time was no exception.


I'm kind of glad the writers didn't make Radek all gung-ho to rescue Rodney. He's a lab scientist, we've seen this before in "Duet". His initial reaction to this would be to give the job to someone who's done field-work and is good at it. The fact that he doesn't initially want to go makes it that much better when he bites the bullet after Elizabeth and John remind him that it's the right thing to do.

Easter Lily
December 13th, 2005, 01:44 PM
I noticed that, as well. It sounded like the probe - not what a humpback would actually sound like underwater. It also had some of the basic physical characteristics of a humpback - very elongated pectoral flippers, the same general size and body shape... hence the reason I called it a Funky Atlantis Humpback Whale. :D
I could live with that... :D I am really glad that they've finally done something with all that water... it's about time!
More of the Funky Atlantis Humpback Whale please! ;) Wonder if anyone in Atlantis can speak "whale". :p

Easter Lily
December 13th, 2005, 02:05 PM
It's an episode that I won't watch again *shrug*. There's been good and there's been bad this season, but I will say this, I'll be wary of any episode written by Binder. For me, he continues to fall flat. The only episode he's written that I've enjoyed was Aurora.

For the rest, he focuses too much on McKay and leaves the rest hanging without much to work with. That's dissappointing.
I believe this episode was written by Martin Gero...

Merlin7
December 13th, 2005, 02:08 PM
The development that Rodney got here is what I think Sheppard should have got in Epiphany. He needed it far more... :D We've seen lots of angsty Rodney already this season... we really didn't NEED anymore but it's not to say that there weren't some priceless moments. There are parallels with Epiphany... characters trapped, characters in despair accompanied by attractive distractions. The difference in Grace Under Pressure was that the distraction had a purpose. :D

I'd love to see Shep get this developement. We've had nothing BUT Rodney developement and I admit, I'm not interested in it. Epiphany SHOULD have been like this for SHEp adn WOULD have been had TPTB left in the flashbacks and ditched the stupid invisibeast crap. But...I doubt TPTB will ever focus on any character the way they do Rodney and certainly not Shep. I've seen more focus on pretty much EVERYONE but. Tis sad. Joe's a fab actor and being wasted.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
December 13th, 2005, 02:09 PM
I believe this episode was written by Martin Gero...
It was, and directed by Martin Wood

Buggy542
December 13th, 2005, 02:13 PM
I noticed that, as well. It sounded like the probe - not what a humpback would actually sound like underwater. It also had some of the basic physical characteristics of a humpback - very elongated pectoral flippers, the same general size (although going back to look this one was a bit larger) and body shape... hence the reason I called it a Funky Atlantis Humpback Whale. :D
The first thing I thought of was the probe from ST IV too. :p



I could live with that... :D I am really glad that they've finally done something with all that water... it's about time!
More of the Funky Atlantis Humpback Whale please! ;) Wonder if anyone in Atlantis can speak "whale". :p
LOL!!

I hope they explore the ocean a lot more. It's so deep they're bound to find trillions of undiscovered organisms and cool fish... and sea monsters! Perhaps they will discover the origins of the Loch Ness monster! (or not. Sometimes I get carried away... :rolleyes: :o )

the dancer of spaz
December 13th, 2005, 02:13 PM
It was, and directed by Martin Wood

Martin Wood rocks! :D :) ;) :P

Arlessiar
December 13th, 2005, 02:21 PM
I'd love to see Shep get this developement. We've had nothing BUT Rodney developement and I admit, I'm not interested in it. Epiphany SHOULD have been like this for SHEp adn WOULD have been had TPTB left in the flashbacks and ditched the stupid invisibeast crap. But...I doubt TPTB will ever focus on any character the way they do Rodney and certainly not Shep. I've seen more focus on pretty much EVERYONE but. Tis sad. Joe's a fab actor and being wasted. I agree that Epiphany was a waste of opportunities when it comes to Shepp. I would have loved to see more of him and his fears or memories than of this silly and old beast story. And I agree that there should be more character development for Sheppard, or better, more background information. But at least he has enough screentime and I really don't think that pretty much everyone else gets more attention than him. Ronon, Carson and Teyla surely don't have more screentime OR character development.
Of course it's easy for me to say that since I'm a McKay fan and happy that I can see so much of him. But I also like Shepp, and I'd love to see more of him or the others or more team action.


... and sea monsters! Perhaps they will discover the origins of the Loch Ness monster! (or not. Sometimes I get carried away... ) LOL! Nessie from Lantia, that's great! Maybe they had Nessie or a few of her ancestors in a sea water tank/aquarium in the city when they flew to earth! But how did Nessie end up in Scotland? :D

Bye, A.

Buggy542
December 13th, 2005, 02:29 PM
LOL! Nessie from Lantia, that's great! Maybe they had Nessie or a few of her ancestors in a sea water tank/aquarium in the city when they flew to earth! But how did Nessie end up in Scotland? :D
Hmmm... Plot hole? Maybe that lake had optimum water and weather conditions. Or they could have just arbitrarily decided she'd like that lovely lake best.

Anyway, didn't they say something about Merlin being an Ancient? Well he was in England which is close to Scotland... :p ;)

Whistler84
December 13th, 2005, 02:30 PM
Aw damn. :( I should have known better than to get my hopes up. This is Stargate, after all. The writers for these two shows remind me of Karen Walker on Will & Grace during an emotional moment.... "Can't talk! Feeling something!"...and she runs away. :D
God forbid any of the characters let any of their emotions show after the trauma of nearly losing someone they care about to a horrible death. :rolleyes:
Then they would be called "weak and too emotional" . . . like Weir.

Merlin7
December 13th, 2005, 02:39 PM
I agree that Epiphany was a waste of opportunities when it comes to Shepp. I would have loved to see more of him and his fears or memories than of this silly and old beast story. And I agree that there should be more character development for Sheppard, or better, more background information. But at least he has enough screentime and I really don't think that pretty much everyone else gets more attention than him. Ronon, Carson and Teyla surely don't have more screentime OR character development.
Of course it's easy for me to say that since I'm a McKay fan and happy that I can see so much of him. But I also like Shepp, and I'd love to see more of him or the others or more team action.


Actually...I think Teyla and Weir both get more character developement. Even Ronon. I know more about Ronon's past than Sheps. Same for Teyla and Weir. I even know Zelenka has a sister and a nephew and Bates has a little bro he loves. I don't know anything at all about Shep. He may get more screen time than Ronon and TEyla and Beckett...but not more characterization. Other than what we get through Joe's fab acting.

What I did love about this ep was the special effects. REally fab with the shield around the jumpers.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
December 13th, 2005, 02:41 PM
Martin Wood rocks! :D :) ;) :P
Yes he does. when I buy the DVDs, I listen to his and DeLuise's commentaries first.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
December 13th, 2005, 02:41 PM
The first thing I thought of was the probe from ST IV too. :p
I think all Trekkies thought of that too.

Easter Lily
December 13th, 2005, 02:44 PM
I'd love to see Shep get this developement. We've had nothing BUT Rodney developement and I admit, I'm not interested in it. Epiphany SHOULD have been like this for SHEp adn WOULD have been had TPTB left in the flashbacks and ditched the stupid invisibeast crap. But...I doubt TPTB will ever focus on any character the way they do Rodney and certainly not Shep. I've seen more focus on pretty much EVERYONE but. Tis sad. Joe's a fab actor and being wasted.

I wonder why they're doing this... apart from the fact that they love the Rodney McKay character... Why are they doing their darndest to avoid any Sheppard backstory or development? It's fortunate for them that Joe Flanigan is such a brilliant actor and rises above the material he's been given because for a lead male, he gets next to nothing... at least this season anyway.
As a fan, I suppose I can speculate that they are keeping all that stuff for bigger and better things... but I need a few more crumbs to keep my optimism alive. A little bit more to suggest that there's something in the pipeline for the character. Unless of course they're gradually leading Rodney into darkside... :p

Buggy542
December 13th, 2005, 02:55 PM
Unless of course they're gradually leading Rodney into darkside... :p
ROFL! :p Forget cookies!

"Come to the darkside, we've got Rodney!"

Merlin7
December 13th, 2005, 03:38 PM
I wonder why they're doing this... apart from the fact that they love the Rodney McKay character... Why are they doing their darndest to avoid any Sheppard backstory or development? It's fortunate for them that Joe Flanigan is such a brilliant actor and rises above the material he's been given because for a lead male, he gets next to nothing... at least this season anyway.
As a fan, I suppose I can speculate that they are keeping all that stuff for bigger and better things... but I need a few more crumbs to keep my optimism alive. A little bit more to suggest that there's something in the pipeline for the character. Unless of course they're gradually leading Rodney into darkside... :p


If you figure out the deal...please let me know. They've got a fab set up to take Shep anywhere. Joe is good enough to do anything with Shep. What is the mystery. My other wonder is..where is the promise to show us ATLANTIS? I know nothing more about it either. Shep has the gene, is supposed to be special we're in ATLANTIS and the show is supposed to be about ATLANTIS but I'm not getting anything about Atlantis. Or the lead character. Supposed lead. I'm starting to believe TPTB intended to turn SGA into the Sam and Rodney hour all along. LOL

But..the special effects were still neat in this ep, as always and I did get my Shep and Zelenka moments. I guess I'll have to settle for crumbs.

starfox
December 13th, 2005, 03:42 PM
On the issue of Rodney character development v. developing everyone else: I love Rodney and will probably never turn down an opportunity to see Rodney character development. When I say that, I mean real development, like the trust issues they played on in this episode, not just random Rodney screen-time (although that's alright too! :) ).

That said, I agree with those who wish the writers would catch a clue and start developing some of the other characters. I want more Teyla, I want more Weir, and we need more Shep. I forsee some Carson development at the end of this season; maybe we'll get to see some of the main characters fleshed out in Season 3.

-------

Moving on.


McKay's initial reaction to Carter-hallucination was priceless. Absolutely priceless. "romping"? There are no words.


We got to see more of how Radek reacts in a crisis, and I liked it. Very calm, steady, in control. It's a nice contrast to Rodney's "We're doomed! (insert doom song here) style. I also love that he went with John to save the day, it just *fit* onscreen.
I also have to say that David Nykl does the "thinking, thinking, got it!" facial expression very well. It adds a lot to his scenes in this ep.


John in control, problem-solving, organizing the rescue effort? I loved it. I love how he knew who he needed to call and what exactly they could offer the effort. Showed that he was keeping up with his position as one of the mission leaders.

John calling McKay "buddy" with that warm friendship-y voice made me happy.

John and Zelenka helping Rodney into the jumper also made me happy.

I love how quickly he covered up his hallucination. Makes me wonder if he'll actually tell anyone or just keep his crazy subconcious to himself.

The lack of a post-rescue infirmary scene where Rodney explains the hallucination (or conveniently forgets to mention them) kind of annoyed me. Not strictly necessary, but the ep could have used the closure.


All in all, a pretty good ep. Lacking in things to add to the greater plot arc, but that's okay; I prefer one-offs. I've been adamantly against any full SG-1/SGA crossover, but I can't help but want to see McKay see Carter again, and the awkwardness there.

IWantToBelieve
December 13th, 2005, 03:46 PM
I believe this episode was written by Martin Gero...


Okay, now I'm loosing it. I swear, I looked at the episode info just the other day and it had Carl Binder as writer, it was one of the reasons I was leery of it.

*sigh*

Well, it's a good thing then, he'll get another shot from me, because I'm trying hard to keep an open mind with this guy since I did love Aurora, it's one of my fav. episodes of this season, but I did NOT like Condemned and Hive at all, which were two of his.

IWantToBelieve
December 13th, 2005, 03:49 PM
If you figure out the deal...please let me know. They've got a fab set up to take Shep anywhere. Joe is good enough to do anything with Shep. What is the mystery. My other wonder is..where is the promise to show us ATLANTIS? I know nothing more about it either. Shep has the gene, is supposed to be special we're in ATLANTIS and the show is supposed to be about ATLANTIS but I'm not getting anything about Atlantis. Or the lead character. Supposed lead. I'm starting to believe TPTB intended to turn SGA into the Sam and Rodney hour all along. LOL

But..the special effects were still neat in this ep, as always and I did get my Shep and Zelenka moments. I guess I'll have to settle for crumbs.


You know, I scrolled up backwards from where I made a post and was reading this, nodding, saying yep yep...then I see who wrote it, doh! Of course it's you, we agree on almost everything when it comes to this!!! :p

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
December 13th, 2005, 04:07 PM
looking at all these posts here on this thread, and I've noticed one thing, no one has mentioned the absence of Beckett, Teyla, and Ronan in the episode.

Odds say, this has been mentioned in a previous post here, and I missed it.

Arlessiar
December 13th, 2005, 04:13 PM
looking at all these posts here on this thread, and I've noticed one thing, no one has mentioned the absence of Beckett, Teyla, and Ronan in the episode.
Odds say, this has been mentioned in a previous post here, and I missed it. I mentioned it in post #30, and I thought that after that it was mentioned again one or two times by some people.
:)

EDIT: I've read about thirty reviews of this ep now here and on LJ, and it seems that many people think that Ronon, Teyla and Carson wouldn't have fit into the episode and they were thankful that they didn't make an appearance.
Well, personally I think it wouldn't have been that bad if they were in the ep, just to see that they are there, know what's going on and worry for their friend/colleague. And Carson could have delivered some medical background. I love it when the team sticks together in critical moments.
But ok, this way the focus was more on Zelenka, that was also nice.

Bye, A.

Jeffer
December 13th, 2005, 04:24 PM
i thought it was a good ep a good Stand alone one which we haven't had many of this season its been alot of arc eps

Easter Lily
December 13th, 2005, 04:24 PM
Okay, now I'm loosing it. I swear, I looked at the episode info just the other day and it had Carl Binder as writer, it was one of the reasons I was leery of it.

*sigh*

Well, it's a good thing then, he'll get another shot from me, because I'm trying hard to keep an open mind with this guy since I did love Aurora, it's one of my fav. episodes of this season, but I did NOT like Condemned and Hive at all, which were two of his.
Didn't like Critical Mass, eh? :p

Jeffer
December 13th, 2005, 04:28 PM
i thought it was a good ep a good Stand alone one which we haven't had many of this season its been alot of arc eps

sure there have been other eps that seemed stand alone but this one in no way involved ancents or the Wraith

Lord Shiva
December 13th, 2005, 04:30 PM
Decent episode... I found parts of it boring but the Carter thing was well thought up.

ToasterOnFire
December 13th, 2005, 04:32 PM
Hmmm...this ep was quite good but nothing spectacular. Critical Mass is still my fave out of the second half eps so far.


-I agree with Arlessiar; there didn't seem to be as much concern and tension on Atlantis as I would have assumed. The chief scientist of Atlantis, who has come up with numerous plans to save others in the past, is trapped underwater and they aren't sure where he is. I thought there would be lots of tension and people rushing from place to place. Instead everyone seemed to be casually strolling around and even joking and Shep seemed more excited in his crane idea than worried about Rodney. Just seemed off.

-I'm also disappointed that the ending was rather sudden and there was no time to see the others relieved at McKay's safe return.

-Could Shep really have ordered Zelenka to accompany him in the PJ? I assumed that the military had no power over civilians but Weir could certainly order him if she had to.

-Great episode for McKay. DH has such a range of emotions, from rage to joy to fear to hysteria. He's always a joy to watch.

-BUT, if you don't like McKay or if you prefer other characters then this probably won't be your favorite ep. No Teyla, Ronon, or Beckett and Weir has just a handful of lines. Rodney is my favorite character and I think DH really acts the hell out of anything he's given, but overall the episode seemed a bit off-balance. For comparison, Epiphany, which was a Shep-heavy ep, had a better team feel because lots of characters were involved.

-Last week I noted that the Athosian subplot seemed out of place on Critical Mass. Perhaps it should have been in GUP instead? It would have been an interesting contrast between Rodney fighting and choosing to live and Teyla's grannie deciding she's ready to die.

-I enjoyed seeing Carter and she has a great dynamic with Rodney, but I could have done without the fan service...:rolleyes:

-The shot where Rodney had to dive underwater to release the hatch was very well done. Seeing as the entire underwater shot was continuous, I would imagine that the whole set was pulled up out of a water pool to make it look like the water was rushing out.

-The introduction of the alien whale was fun. I wonder what else lies in the water, and if it's predatory.

-I love Zelenka. As time goes on I'm starting to see him as a cross between Beckett with his calm head and reassuring manner and McKay with his biting Czech outbursts. :D


-Best line (from McKay, natch): "There's brilliant, and then there's me." :D

Agent_Dark
December 13th, 2005, 05:28 PM
I liked it. Ok, I'm a big Sam and Amanda fan so that is one of the reasons why I enjoyed the episode :D but I though it was pretty good overall.


and Shep seemed more excited in his crane idea than worried about Rodney. Just seemed off.
Hmm, I'd change 'excited' to 'confident' :)



-Could Shep really have ordered Zelenka to accompany him in the PJ? I assumed that the military had no power over civilians but Weir could certainly order him if she had to.
Well, I wouldn't put it past Shep to order Zelenka with the barrel of his gun if Zelenka had of kept pussy-footing around... ;)


looking at all these posts here on this thread, and I've noticed one thing, no one has mentioned the absence of Beckett, Teyla, and Ronan in the episode.
To be completely honest, I didn't even notice the lack of the other leads... :| Which is kind of dissapointing, that they can write an episode without main characters and have viewers not notice them (and no, I don't believe that's due to the guest character in the episode)

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
December 13th, 2005, 05:35 PM
To be completely honest, I didn't even notice the lack of the other leads... :| Which is kind of dissapointing, that they can write an episode without main characters and have viewers not notice them (and no, I don't believe that's due to the guest character in the episode)
True, When the episode airs on SciFi (which I plan to watch it), I wonder how many fans will actually notice that PM, RL, and JM didn't appear in the episode.

prion
December 13th, 2005, 05:39 PM
Hmmm...this ep was quite good but nothing spectacular. Critical Mass is still my fave out of the second half eps so far.

Basically agree (although I've watched Epiphany a lot more so far)

-I agree with Arlessiar; there didn't seem to be as much concern and tension on Atlantis as I would have assumed. The chief scientist of Atlantis, who has come up with numerous plans to save others in the past, is trapped underwater and they aren't sure where he is. I thought there would be lots of tension and people rushing from place to place. Instead everyone seemed to be casually strolling around and even joking and Shep seemed more excited in his crane idea than worried about Rodney. Just seemed off.

Yeah, they were all calm and collected but in reality it is sometimes like that and they were so sure there was someone to rescue (maybe they think that Rodney is indestructible!). However, both Zelenka and Sheppard definitely looked surprised when they opened up the jumper bay and Griffin was NOT there. I would have liked to have seen more worry, too.

-I'm also disappointed that the ending was rather sudden and there was no time to see the others relieved at McKay's safe return.

For someone who was freezing to death, etc . in the water, he should not have stood up immediately after sitting down. Geez, I went through ice on a pond once and it was no fun.

-Could Shep really have ordered Zelenka to accompany him in the PJ? I assumed that the military had no power over civilians but Weir could certainly order him if she had to.

ER,I don't know, but Dr. Z was the only person who could really handle fixing the jumper. He's McKay's backup. Of course, he was so badly traumatized in last week's episode... ;)

-Great episode for McKay. DH has such a range of emotions, from rage to joy to fear to hysteria. He's always a joy to watch.

Definitely.

-BUT, if you don't like McKay or if you prefer other characters then this probably won't be your favorite ep. No Teyla, Ronon, or Beckett and Weir has just a handful of lines. Rodney is my favorite character and I think DH really acts the hell out of anything he's given, but overall the episode seemed a bit off-balance. For comparison, Epiphany, which was a Shep-heavy ep, had a better team feel because lots of characters were involved.

McKay fans will have a ball; non-fan McKay fans may recoil. And yes, in Epiphany, there was a definite sense of urgency. I wonder if the sense of urgency wasn't so much there this time because perhaps they ASSUMED (tsk tsk) that the rear compartment had a LOT of air in it. How were they to know it was leaking and McKay was arguing with his pink-clad hallucination?

-The shot where Rodney had to dive underwater to release the hatch was very well done. Seeing as the entire underwater shot was continuous, I would imagine that the whole set was pulled up out of a water pool to make it look like the water was rushing out.

I would have rather seen him sucked out with the water and land at Shep's and Dr Z's feet, but then that's me (and that would also have been a lot of work).

-The introduction of the alien whale was fun. I wonder what else lies in the water, and if it's predatory.

About time we saw a fish! And hmm, I wonder if it's fish or mammal? THat deep? Well, another planet....

Overall, good episode but not great or fantastic. I have to watch it again to see precisely how McKay was manipulating his Sam (loved how he remarked aboaut her getting naked - then cracks open one eye to check) but he knows Sam well enough to know that ain't ever happening.

However, McKay got Sam to do something that nobody on Stargate has ever gotten her to do : Style her hair nicely! ANd I could wear the makeup was straight off the late Doc Fraiser.

And lastly, McKay's mind is a very scary place to be. Think he'll need a session with Heightmeyer after this! ;)

Gaterholic
December 13th, 2005, 05:42 PM
I liked it, but i havent decided how much yet. It just that the last episode was so good, that it makes all others lesser by comparison.
It was funny, and entertaining, but not much else. So i guess it was a good one shot, when compared with other one shots.

I guess what im getting at, is that i have indecision issues and you should respect my problem!

IWantToBelieve
December 13th, 2005, 06:03 PM
Didn't like Critical Mass, eh? :p

*tossing hands up in the air and swearing* dang it...that's where I saw his name, I'm betting you - and (sheepishly I might add), I *did* like critical mass.

GAH!!!

But I positively...not hated...but felt cheated with Hive and Condemned.

This episode I just didn't like, because it should've been McKay and Sheppard down there.

I'm just really really starting to resent the lack of Sheppard. And I do like DH/McKay, a lot, but I also like Sheppard, and for being the leading man, he sure isn't getting used much at all.

But now this is going away from episode discussion.

There were parts I liked. I really did enjoy the episode up until the carter hallucination started. I have loved and enjoyed almost all of SG-1, so I've got nothing against Carter, but the s8 or was it 7, episode Grace was not good, the whole 'hallucinate friends' arc is just, it doesn't work for me at all...and after carter appeared it seemed to drag whereas before it seemed to run along well. I did love the opening scene with the red shirt guy and the crash, and then Sheppard with his choc/peanut butter...

But overall the episode went off for me when Carter appeared.

I like her on SG-1, but when I watch SGA, I want SGA...:S

tsn81
December 13th, 2005, 06:06 PM
I'm amazed that no one has speculated on this yet, but what if McKay didnt hallucinate at all? What if Atlantis whales are sentient/telepathic beings and it was communicating with McKay by potraying itself as "Carter" and trying to stop him from doing stuff because it knew that help was coming? Remember that we heard from whale long time before we saw "Carter".
We've seen stranger stuff happen in Stargate-series and it would be great way to give more depth to big oceans of Atlantis-planet.

xfkirsten
December 13th, 2005, 06:10 PM
About time we saw a fish! And hmm, I wonder if it's fish or mammal? THat deep? Well, another planet....

Whales here on Earth can actually be very deep divers. They've actually developed adaptations to help them withstand the bends very well, and they actually have rib cages that collapse under the pressure since the air in their lungs contracts so much anyways.

I don't recall offhand how deep McKay was at the time, but it was somewhere below 1200 feet, right? Sperm whales typically hunt at 500-1000m (1640-3280 ft), but can dive considerably deeper than that. Even a little bottlenose dolphin has been recorded as diving to nearly 1800 ft under experimental conditions! :)

Agent_Dark
December 13th, 2005, 06:12 PM
I'm amazed that no one has speculated on this yet, but what if McKay didnt hallucinate at all? What if Atlantis whales are sentient/telepathic beings and it was communicating with McKay by potraying itself as "Carter" and trying to stop him from doing stuff because it knew that help was coming? Remember that we heard from whale long time before we saw "Carter".
We've seen stranger stuff happen in Stargate-series and it would be great way to give more depth to big oceans of Atlantis-planet.
Hahahaha, the whale! :D :D It's a very whacky (in a good way) and different spin.... I like it :D

xfkirsten
December 13th, 2005, 06:15 PM
I'm amazed that no one has speculated on this yet, but what if McKay didnt hallucinate at all? What if Atlantis whales are sentient/telepathic beings and it was communicating with McKay by potraying itself as "Carter" and trying to stop him from doing stuff because it knew that help was coming? Remember that we heard from whale long time before we saw "Carter".
We've seen stranger stuff happen in Stargate-series and it would be great way to give more depth to big oceans of Atlantis-planet.

Actually, that's a pretty neat idea. While I don't think that was what was happening in this case, it's something worth exploring. It's actually been theorized that dolphins can "paint" pictures for other dolphins using sound. Think about it - their world is very much based on sounds used in echolocation, which the brain translates into an image. If a dolphin could reproduce the train of clicks they receive when they echolocate an object, they could actually project that image to another dolphin.

Of course, the human brain has a horrible echolocation ability (try turning the lights off at night and making noise to try and find the location of objects around you!) but that's where the realm of science fiction (and the capability given to this particular species) really steps in...

Willow'sCat
December 13th, 2005, 06:24 PM
Zelenka's translation:

Do prdele, to je na hovno tohle to. Kdo to vymyslel, že budeme pod vodou, tentokrát...?

****, it's screwed up this. Who's idea was, we'll be under water, this time?

Edit: "****" is the "F-word"... :o)Oh thank you for that. :D I was with John though "I think my Czech (?) must be getting better". :D I love Zelenka in this episode and Rodney not only remembered his name but used his first name, now that is progress for Radek.

Just a few remarks...

I loved the Sam/Rodney interplay and it did feel like false Sam so that was good I wouldn't have wanted Rodney to be hallucinating and for her to be like "real" Sam because that wouldn't be in character for Rodney.

I liked the smushy stuff (well the kissing and hugging and...:eek: ) nice to see Rodney get some even if it is all in his head.

It wasn't as bad to the Sam character as I was dreading, I thought Rodney might have come off looking like a "real jerk" but instead I think we got a very human Rodney and I loved the fact that finally we see in black and white (no subtext) that he has trust issues if he can't even trust himself. :(

The plot was as thin as tissue paper but well how much plot can you really put into an episode based on this premise?

I loved John's character he really has that "leave no one behind" working for him it came off sounding sincere and not gun-ho or suicidal.

Dr Weir, well I did manage to watch without FF so that must say something, I thought her tease about the Puddle Jumper was miss-placed but that is a scripting thing.

I didn't get a sense of urgency in this episode that I think it needed, I did feel it from Rodney of course but not from Zelenka or the other Scientists and it did disappoint a little that Zelenka was so pessimistic, is that in character for him because he always seemed to counter Rodney's pessimism or so I thought.

I would have loved to see Rodney back on Atlantis afterwards I don't know why they never do that. They seem to always end the episodes in odd places IMO.

Oh and as fangirl, David Hewlett is a great actor and not a shred of self-consciousness about him I never once cringed which I thought I may have given it was Rodney all alone in his head. :p How David manages to take Rodney from snarky to whimpering in zero point one seconds I don't know.

Overall I it is not my favourite episode but that's O.K I did enjoy it and that was more than I did with last weeks and given what the rest of the Season may have instore it was nice to have a Rodney based episode that was about Rodney not about something or someone else, just Rodney. :)

PG15
December 13th, 2005, 06:27 PM
Carter was hot.
McKay was hilarious
David Hewlett is (IMHO) the best actor in the two series.
Zelenka was awesome
Shepphard was acting very child-like, but in a good way (very excited). Loved "like chocolate and peanut butter".
The whale was awesome
The solution was awesome
The episode was awesome

Whatazarian
December 13th, 2005, 06:48 PM
I'm amazed that no one has speculated on this yet, but what if McKay didnt hallucinate at all? What if Atlantis whales are sentient/telepathic beings and it was communicating with McKay by potraying itself as "Carter" and trying to stop him from doing stuff because it knew that help was coming? Remember that we heard from whale long time before we saw "Carter".
We've seen stranger stuff happen in Stargate-series and it would be great way to give more depth to big oceans of Atlantis-planet.

Telepathic whale physicists? You have an awesome imagination.. i'll give you that, but your idea is berserk.

The episode was good, and I think the Rodney development is good because SGA was supposed to be a science show, not a SG-1 like show, so the scientists should get the most character development.

Gaterholic
December 13th, 2005, 07:20 PM
Telepathic whales would be more a star trek thing. No offense to the treks, as im sure i would get roasted alive if i did, but those shows always had "expected the unexpected"... but after so long, the unexpected became, well.... expected.

Its the normal non-out-there solutions and ideas that are more 'interesting" these days. And personally i like it better this way. as if, it was actually happening, i could see it going down like this. thats the feeling i always get when watching gate, the feeling that if any of this stuff actually existed, i could see this stuff happening.

Anyway, i think i lost the topic again...
In conclusion (and personal opinion)
Hallucination = more cool and rational than super smart telepathic whales.



Ps, this is all with the exception of "home", which was very star trek in its ending...

-GH

Astrofighter
December 13th, 2005, 07:30 PM
I did like how they mentioned Window of Opp. a few times, granted in the literal sense of it, but they knew they had a semi funny ep on their hands and threw that in there. Though i would have lowed them to mention it in duet.

leaper
December 13th, 2005, 07:45 PM
-Last week I noted that the Athosian subplot seemed out of place on Critical Mass. Perhaps it should have been in GUP instead? It would have been an interesting contrast between Rodney fighting and choosing to live and Teyla's grannie deciding she's ready to die.



Totally agree with you on this, would have been a really awesome episode if they'd done it that way, but having said that, still enjoyed this episode, didn't feel the absent players needed to be there and I enjoyed the funny lines while understanding where they came from..

YodaMate
December 13th, 2005, 07:58 PM
Can't believe that everyone isn't raving about finally exploring some more PJ capabilities !

We got to see that there are crystal panels hidden behind the seats (seems like there are panels for just about everything in that rear compartment). We also finally got a decent look at those computer screens Rodney is so fond of and got to see it from his POV (damn those tiny keyboards ;) ) which was cool. I wonder if those are Ancient computers or Earth designed ones - they seem to be compatible with those weird PJ cords.

Also, we get to see the PJs underwater, which was really cool :D though i thought the windscreen cracked a bit too early (doesn't have a problem with space, but a 'mere' 1000 feet of pressure cracks it ?).

And finally, we get confirmation on the PJs shields. I'm glad the PTBs have stopped insisting on that stupid 'no PJ shields' idea. They make so much sense ; explains why sometimes PJs blow up from a single shot and other times can take a beating, it fits with the established Ancient obsession and skill with shields (not to mention that the Goa'uld cargo ships are vastly inferior but have both shields and cloaks).

Also, it makes so much sense in the Defiant One episode for PJs to have shields - the shield pops up after the Wraith has been fiddling with the PJs crystals (operating the system manually and thus not requiring the ATA gene), he activates it with a remote (just like the cloak remote) and it makes more sense than for the Wraith to be carrying around a shield generator.

Perhaps the fix for why Sheppard didn't realise there were shields before is that he assumed the Definant One shield was Wraith tech (they never said what happened to that jumper). Sheppard has probably already activated it subconciously before now (whenever they were uncloaked and he was thinking 'i hope we don't get hit'), but he isn't sure that he can simply think the shields into being and much prefers Radek to manually change the settings.

ShadowMaat
December 13th, 2005, 08:05 PM
Hmm... It's hard for me to sum up my thoughts on this ep.

There was lots and lots of BRILLIANT McKay development, all in keeping with my own perception of the character and I loved seeing it... but at the same time, I really kinda wish they'd develp someone OTHER than Rodney. I mean, like I said, this ep didn't really show me anything new, it just showed me what I already knew/suspected. Again, fantastic stuff, but maybe not at this juncture?

The Sam/McKay stuff also came across awkwardly. I know some of it was probably because she was just his hallucination and all, but parts of it still felt contrived (or maybe TOO contrived) and it just didn't mesh as well as I wanted to. Blame the hypothermia, I guess. ;) The initial scenes of Rodney panicking also went on a clip or two too long.

Also, I'd just like to point out that once again, going on a mission with Rodney has proven fatal to someone. Alas, poor Griffin. ;)

I wanted more "city mobilizes to save McKay" stuff. He's so convinced that no one is smart enough to save him (and I suspect he thinks/thought no one would bother) that it would have been nice to see him proven wrong a little more thoroughly. Yeah, we get a brief scene of the scientists putting their heads together to narrow the search and Shep got the boys from the machine shop to cobble together a boiler tank- I mean, a puddle jumper that could go under water (sorry, wandered off to Surface for a minute), but I wanted MORE of that kind of stuff. And more of the nameless faceless people of the city coming together to save that petty, arrogant, not-good-with-people scientist. Oh, and of course, the Tea Service of Impending Doom from the Athosians. :D

I'm also on board with the "sick of hallucinations" thing. Don't get me wrong, I love Sam and all, but... I can't help thinking there might have been a better/smoother way to handle it than with a figment of McKay's warped imagination. What that something might be, I dunno. It's just a niggly little thing and it kinda ate at me all through the ep. I keep thinking, "maybe if it had just been a voice on the radio..." or something. Then it could tie in nicely with the whole whale communication idea. LOL!

I did wonder about that, actually, although I didn't think of it in terms of telepathy. Or look at the movie The Abyss- in the book, at least, the aliens communicated by manipulating molecues of water- they could get inside and look around a person's head without them knowing they were there. Something along those lines (although I realize the water didn't come until later). I just wonder if it's a coincidence that he didn't start to hallucinate until AFTER he heard the magmasaur- I mean, whale. But then, it was just useless plot filler and will never be mentioned again, so why bother wondering at all? *sigh* At least we know that SOMETHING is down there.

Oh, and WTF happened to the infirmary scene??! HELLO!! Obnoxiously abrupt way to end the episode, with that trite "goobye" wave thing. Gah! I needed more resolution/fallout, dammit! And a surprised Rodney exiting the jumper to a cheering crowd of people- all of whom helped to get him back- and he can see that they really DO care about him, in spite of his attitude and bad people skills.

There may be more later, but that's all I can come up with for now. ;) It was interesting stuff, but nowhere NEAR as good as Duet, IMO. Or Siege 3.

macktheknife
December 13th, 2005, 08:09 PM
http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/4602/whale4zq5ha.gif

whale pic made lighter..

Agent_Dark
December 13th, 2005, 08:14 PM
...and greener...

ShadowMaat
December 13th, 2005, 08:18 PM
...and greener...
Pffft. Night vision, obviously. ;) Enhances ambient lighting. Or something...

ToasterOnFire
December 13th, 2005, 08:23 PM
I wanted more "city mobilizes to save McKay" stuff. He's so convinced that no one is smart enough to save him (and I suspect he thinks/thought no one would bother) that it would have been nice to see him proven wrong a little more thoroughly. Yeah, we get a brief scene of the scientists putting their heads together to narrow the search and Shep got the boys from the machine shop to cobble together a boiler tank- I mean, a puddle jumper that could go under water (sorry, wandered off to Surface for a minute), but I wanted MORE of that kind of stuff. And more of the nameless faceless people of the city coming together to save that petty, arrogant, not-good-with-people scientist. Oh, and of course, the Tea Service of Impending Doom from the Athosians. :D
HA! I can see it now...

Random scientist #73 runs up to Teyla, who is talking with fellow Athosian #26.

Scientist: "Dr. McKay is trapped in a puddlejumper that is sinking and probably filling with water!"

Teyla (calmly turns to the Athosian): "Bring me...THE TEAPOT!!"

:D ;)

An aside, did anyone else hope to catch a glimpse of Kusanagi when they panned around the team of scientists on Atlantis? That would have been a great cameo.

xfkirsten
December 13th, 2005, 08:27 PM
Okay, played with a cap of my own there to lighten it a bit in Photoshop...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v329/xfkirsten/Stargate/gupwhale-lighter.jpg

ShadowMaat
December 13th, 2005, 08:31 PM
It would've been, especially since she's in my fic. Dammit. :P

Anyway, I'm a HORRIBLE FAN!! COMPLETELY REMISS! Forgot to rhapsodize the glories of David Hewlett and his phenomenal acting abilities! Yes! I don't think this ep would have been anywhere near as good without him. I still think he's one of the best things to happen to the Stargate franchise. On either show.

Of course, some of the other actors could be good, too, but they're rarely given a chance to showcase their talents. *sigh* Still, doesn't change the fact that Hewlett is freakin AWESOME, if you'll excuse this meek little fangirl for saying so. :P

PG15
December 13th, 2005, 08:32 PM
Also, we get to see the PJs underwater, which was really cool :D though i thought the windscreen cracked a bit too early (doesn't have a problem with space, but a 'mere' 1000 feet of pressure cracks it ?).



I'll let Futurama handle this:



Leela: Depth at 45 hundred feet, 48 hundred, 50 hundred! 5000 feet!

Farnsworth: Dear Lord, that's over 150 atmospheres of pressure.

Fry: How many atmospheres can this ship withstand?

Farnsworth: Well it's a spaceship, so I'd say anywhere between zero and one.



And according to my calculations, at 1000 feet, there is around 30 atm, which is more than 1. :p :p :D

Whatazarian
December 13th, 2005, 08:46 PM
Also, we get to see the PJs underwater, which was really cool :D though i thought the windscreen cracked a bit too early (doesn't have a problem with space, but a 'mere' 1000 feet of pressure cracks it ?).


There is no pressure in space, it's a vacuum... so a 'mere' 1000 feet of pressure is infinitely greater pressure than pressure in normal vacuum space...

Edited to say that it's not technically infinitely greater pressure because it can be contested that there is no perfect vacuum in space at any point (As far as we know) but the idea is still similar.

macktheknife
December 13th, 2005, 08:55 PM
I'll let Futurama handle this:

And according to my calculations, at 1000 feet, there is around 30 atm, which is more than 1. :p :p :D

Well, I assume because the ship was not crushed on the High-Grav world Stumbos 4, that it would be able to take more than 1 atmosphere.

I was thinking the exact same thing though :D

the dancer of spaz
December 13th, 2005, 09:33 PM
HA! I can see it now...

Random scientist #73 runs up to Teyla, who is talking with fellow Athosian #26.

Scientist: "Dr. McKay is trapped in a puddlejumper that is sinking and probably filling with water!"

Teyla (calmly turns to the Athosian): "Bring me...THE TEAPOT!!"

:D ;)


Hahaha! Holy... wow... Ha... Heh... Heh. Phew! Now THAT makes sense. ;)

Willow'sCat
December 13th, 2005, 09:52 PM
McKay fans will have a ball; non-fan McKay fans may recoil. :eek: There are non McKay fans? :eek: Really? That explains a lot. :p :D


And yes, in Epiphany, there was a definite sense of urgency. I wonder if the sense of urgency wasn't so much there this time because perhaps they ASSUMED (tsk tsk) that the rear compartment had a LOT of air in it. How were they to know it was leaking and McKay was arguing with his pink-clad hallucination?
Yes again no feel for the urgency you would have expected they knew or guessed or whatever Scientist do, that if the windscreen was cracking under such little pressure that the back might start leaking or something as the pressure continued to mount the deeper the PJ went. ;) Of course it is usually Rodney that has the greatest sense of urgency in these matters so maybe that's why. :D


Anyway, I'm a HORRIBLE FAN!! COMPLETELY REMISS! Forgot to rhapsodize the glories of David Hewlett and his phenomenal acting abilities! Yes! I don't think this ep would have been anywhere near as good without him. I still think he's one of the best things to happen to the Stargate franchise. On either show.

Of course, some of the other actors could be good, too, but they're rarely given a chance to showcase their talents. *sigh* Still, doesn't change the fact that Hewlett is freakin AWESOME, if you'll excuse this meek little fangirl for saying so. http://forum.gateworld.net/images/gw_smilies/tongue.gifI agree, yes DH is awesome, but again if you don't like McKay you probably missed just how good he was, I wont go on I have done that elsewhere! :p :D

SlytherinGal
December 13th, 2005, 10:30 PM
I absolutely loved Grace Under Pressure! Yes, I may live in the US, but I have my ways into watching it *evil grin*

I love seeing a wet McKay :D

Callie
December 14th, 2005, 01:10 AM
Hewlett was once again fantastic. I was almost disappointed when Sam turned up. I would have liked to have seen how well David coped with holding the whole episode on his own.

Nice development, which I'm sure isn't coincidental (especially if Gero wrote this episode): Radek has started with the "No-no-no-no-no-no" and "Wait-wait-wait-wait-wait" that Rodney so frequently does. No doubt he's picked it up from working with him so much. Cute!

knowsfords
December 14th, 2005, 01:13 AM
The redshirt tomato guy was great, usually with redshirts you dont feel shocked when they die but I was like :eek:

Arlessiar
December 14th, 2005, 01:57 AM
HA! I can see it now...
Random scientist #73 runs up to Teyla, who is talking with fellow Athosian #26.
Scientist: "Dr. McKay is trapped in a puddlejumper that is sinking and probably filling with water!"
Teyla (calmly turns to the Athosian): "Bring me...THE TEAPOT!!" Haha, that's great! Have some green!
Oh and this is even funnier when one reads it as a McKay thunker, cause we know that our thunk has a secret obsession with teapots... :D

neko138
December 14th, 2005, 02:21 AM
i have the "tomato" thing a lot at work. being the only person at my work who goes to uni, and doing politics, somehow gives people the idea that they *might* be a bit sparter than me in my field. So, when people say to me: "Oh, you know that Iraq was just over oil?" i think i'm entitled to beat them over the head with the baka (idiot) stick and say "tell me something i didnt know."

AS for rodney, all good. Once more, a great performance, i love his little "no, no, no, no , no" thing, so cute. Too bad we didnt see more of how they got BACK to the surface, with only a smidge of power left and all. >_< Sheppard's so clever. And after all that cable modding, they might not have used it. >_< groan.

The whale, a bit cliche. Although, one wonders if it will make another appearance and if it is friendly. :D coincides with Surface showing on Aus tv. -_-

And of course, Amanda. She cannot go without say. After all, she got her munga jungas out and despite the cold water, it was hot.

Willow'sCat
December 14th, 2005, 02:35 AM
And of course, Amanda. She cannot go without say. After all, she got her munga jungas out and despite the cold water, it was hot.Haha, thank you I needed a laugh "munga jungas" is that what the kids are calling 'em these days? :D

YES! I forgot about Amanda how remiss, she was as always brilliant, gorgeous and game. :) Love Amanda.

mcalex22
December 14th, 2005, 03:44 AM
Hi all,

Love reading all your comments and thoughts. I'm sorry I can't remember who it was who came up with the idea of a telephathic willy the whale but oh wow, I like it! Maybe if Martin Gero reads your idea, he might like it enough to incorporate something into S3???:p Actually, I was wondering if Willy was telepathic and sensed Rodney's distress myself;) .

Actually David and Paul mentioned Willy at a con and I thought they meant they saw a real whale not some alien whale in the episode!

Prior to seeing this epi, I honestly did not know what to expect because I read too much gossip and criticisms about David/Rodney beforehand but like Epiphany, I was extremely and pleasantly surprised by how much I liked it. Not my no.1 fave epi but definitely up there in the top 5.

I don't think there is anything I can add that hasn't already been said...

Like Shadow, I just gotta say this (and I know the non-McKay fans are going to roll their eyes and hate me!) but damnit, David Hewlett was fantastic! I was afraid that he'd be too anxious or too OTT but he wasn't. He created a good balance of emotions and actions... and I noticed he uh moaned and made those little sounds that Rodney likes to do, quite a bit.

And it showed us a little more of Rodney, his vulnerabiility which I thought was very touching. I liked the bit where he concedes to pink-Sam that he treated Griffin pretty bad. I suppose it showed us all that Rodney (underneath all that caustic wit) does care...

Sam too was fantastic, even though she was only a pink hallucination. I thought Amanda looked very gorgeous (as always!). I am not a shipper but I loved Sam and Rodney and I loved the kiss and well, everything. I laughed at many of the scenes and all I could think of was, damn it Martin Gero, you're hillarious!

Radek/David Nykl was absolutely fantastic too. I'm happy to see more of him and even happier that he got some interaction with John. He's like a nice Rodney, not as snarky but capable of snarking. He and John make a good team, I think.

John... oh wow, I really love him taking charge of the modifications to the jumper or the equipment making whatever. I just liked his determination and how there was no doubt in his mind that he'd be the one doing the rescuing. This is why I love Sheppard - he's so fiercely and intensely loyal, not to mention he has great hair!

I thought it was interesting how he said he could order Radek to go into the jumper with him... I always thought the scientists didn't answer to the military or John and he can order Rodney around is only when they are on team missions... I'd love to see if Rodney would listen to him if Weir wasn't around! I doubt it!

The other thing I noticed was that Griffin (ok besides the fact that I was thinking of Cliff from Cheers not just because of the mo but also with all the tomatoes and comments etc) was that he was wearing the Daedalus uniform. I surmised Caldwell must still be recovering... and maybe the Deddy is staying a bit longer. I thought it was nice to see a Deddy crewman on Atlantis/mainland. And it was nice to have a member of the military who actually talks back and not just grunts or stays in the background. Pity he had to die - it just constantly cracks me up how everyone who comes into contact with Rodney just takes him in their stride and kinda just puts up with his comments. Maybe they all get briefed by John/Caldwell - "Uh, listen fellas, there's Dr McKay..."

Well, I think those are my thoughts for now. They probably are repeats of others but I did try to read everything and not be too repetitive...:)

If SGA keeps giving us all these excitement, I can't wait for the Tower next!

GateMan2000
December 14th, 2005, 04:05 AM
This was a very Rodney episode. Not near as good as Critical Mass...but not the worst one I have seen.

ShadowMaat
December 14th, 2005, 04:43 AM
re: Daedalus- Actually, I kinda assumed the Deddy WASN'T in town. Otherwise couldn't they have found some way to beam McKay out? Either use the Deddy's increased (I assume) sensor capabilities to locate McKay/the jumper, or have Shep & Zelenka find the jumper and then lock onto that and beam 'em (maybe even jumpers & all).

Not nearly as exciting as modifying shields for the jumpers, but I know it's one of the first things to pop into my mind as soon as Rodney and Mr. Tomato Head started sinking.

Biscuit
December 14th, 2005, 06:07 AM
I'd love to see Shep get this developement. We've had nothing BUT Rodney developement and I admit, I'm not interested in it. Epiphany SHOULD have been like this for SHEp adn WOULD have been had TPTB left in the flashbacks and ditched the stupid invisibeast crap. But...I doubt TPTB will ever focus on any character the way they do Rodney and certainly not Shep. I've seen more focus on pretty much EVERYONE but. Tis sad. Joe's a fab actor and being wasted.

Ummm...since Joe Flanigan WROTE Ephiphany, wouldn't that mean he's wasting himself? Those were his stupid invisibeasts. And his stupid flashbacks.

Aw. Now you've gone and hurt Joe's feelings.

obsessed1
December 14th, 2005, 06:23 AM
Ummm...since Joe Flanigan WROTE Ephiphany, wouldn't that mean he's wasting himself? Those were his stupid invisibeasts. And his stupid flashbacks.

Aw. Now you've gone and hurt Joe's feelings.

In an interview on sci fi, Joe flanigan said that Epiphany, the ep he wrote, would deal with his time in Afghanistan, show flashbacks and explain why he was demoted. COnsidering he has said this on a number of occasions AND the finished product was quite different I think its safe to say that TPTB changed his script, (Perhaps he gave away too much)
So TPTB are wasting him. not Joe wasting himself. WHich is kinda what Merlin7 was trying to say i think.

Biscuit
December 14th, 2005, 06:45 AM
Me, I adored this episode. I shocked myself with how much I enjoyed it -- because like everybody else, the original "Grace" bored me to gnawing on the furniture.

Let's lay it out in bullet points:

* Oh how I loved the McKay stream-of-consciousness rants. He insulted the computer. He insulted the whale. He called himself names. He tried to cut a deal with the puddle jumper. And when Samantha-of-the-hallucinatory-cleavage showed up...he insulted his own subconsious. I think it should be of some comfort to McKay's subordinates. When he insults them, it really, truly, honestly is nothing personal. Like the imaginary Sam says: petty, arrogant and bad with people is just McKay's default setting. J'adore, McKay of the Barcelona McKays!

* Mad love, powers that be, for taking us underwater. I was hoping those puddle jumpers would live up to their name! The Ancient whale-y thing was nicely eerie. Of course, if I had my druthers, it would have been some sort of slathering kraken-beast with tentacles and razor-sharp teeth the size of rowboats. That's just the way I roll. Hey, it's a big ocean. There could be much, much scarier beasts to meet out there. Right?

* Rescue frenzy, yay! Although, would it really be that easy to turn a cloak into a shield? And then slam to pieces of equipment together and just solder them to the puddle jumper/crane. Sheppard makes it sound so easy. He's a persuasive man (right, Zelenka?) Aw, Sheppard, emoting up a storm (well, for Sheppard, anyway). He shows he cares by hatching crack-crazy schemes and threatening to haul others along by the ears. Feel the love, Sheppard!

* Moment of silence for tomato-red-shirt guy. I'll miss you and your hysterically historically inaccurate patter, tomato mustache guy! Your heroic death was not in vain. And -- in a moment of startling continuity -- was even remarked upon later in the episode. Aw, McKay felt badly about how he treated you, tomato man. He's growing as a person, thanks to you. Rest in peace. I hope the whale didn't eat you when you washed out the window.

* Powers that be, I forgive you for the cleavage and forcing Carter to swim around in her underwear. Because it was hilarious. Oh my god, all the McKay moments were hilarious. Also, McKay gave Carter a very fetching hallucinatory hairdo.

* Beckett? Beckett? Beckett? No Beckett? Aw! But shouldn't there have been some sort of medical presence on the rescue jumper? McKay told them they were both badly injured. I understand if Beckett, Teyla and Ronon were busy on the Mainland, singing traditional Athosian orchestral dirges or somesuch...but they couldn't toss a blanket over McKay? Hand him a nice warm cup of cocoa? Change that nasty bandage on his forehead? Medic!!

* And don't even get me started on the lack of awkward manly why-aren't-you-dead reunion moments.

To sum up: Loved the episode. But I missed the team. Here's hoping the next few are huge team bonding story lines. Bring on Dex and Teyla and Beckett and Sheppard and McKay! Bring them all in the same room, on the same mission, at the same time! You can do it, clever writers! I know you can!

atlantis2184
December 14th, 2005, 08:39 AM
Any Transcript?

AutumnDream
December 14th, 2005, 09:37 AM
* Moment of silence for tomato-red-shirt guy. I'll miss you and your hysterically historically inaccurate patter, tomato mustache guy! Your heroic death was not in vain. And -- in a moment of startling continuity -- was even remarked upon later in the episode. Aw, McKay felt badly about how he treated you, tomato man. He's growing as a person, thanks to you. Rest in peace. I hope the whale didn't eat you when you washed out the window.

* Powers that be, I forgive you for the cleavage and forcing Carter to swim around in her underwear. Because it was hilarious. Oh my god, all the McKay moments were hilarious. Also, McKay gave Carter a very fetching hallucinatory hairdo.

* Beckett? Beckett? Beckett? No Beckett? Aw! But shouldn't there have been some sort of medical presence on the rescue jumper? McKay told them they were both badly injured. I understand if Beckett, Teyla and Ronon were busy on the Mainland, singing traditional Athosian orchestral dirges or somesuch...but they couldn't toss a blanket over McKay? Hand him a nice warm cup of cocoa? Change that nasty bandage on his forehead? Medic!!


Those three paragraphs made me laugh harder than anything in the episode did. :D

Unamed
December 14th, 2005, 10:08 AM
so does this mean we'll have shields for the pj's all the time now and be able to swithch from cloak to shield?

IMForeman
December 14th, 2005, 11:34 AM
I liked it, very enjoyable episode. Although, I had been wishing that the last shot of Rodney looking back at the jumper would have had the little girl from "Grace" instead of Sam, implying that there was something more to both of those episodes than just hallucinations. Maybe an ascended Ancient?

Callie
December 14th, 2005, 11:57 AM
First draft of the transcript is up:

http://www.brundle.free-online.co.uk/214_Grace_UP.html

Merlin7
December 14th, 2005, 12:36 PM
Ummm...since Joe Flanigan WROTE Ephiphany, wouldn't that mean he's wasting himself? Those were his stupid invisibeasts. And his stupid flashbacks.

Aw. Now you've gone and hurt Joe's feelings.


Actual Joe came up with the story IDEA. Brad Wright wrote it. And Joe said at a con and in some interview that there would be flashbacks which OBVIOUSLY didn't get written by Brad or were cut. And his idea of the beast wasn't what we saw. So...nope. LOL

atlantis2184
December 14th, 2005, 01:48 PM
thanks for the transcript Callie !!!

AlphaBlu
December 14th, 2005, 01:49 PM
Overall I had too many expectations for this ep, so it didn't live up to what I wanted. Conversley, I had no expectations for Critical Mass, and that was awesome.

Anyway, this episode was still very good. Sam + water... oooh... And McKay is my fav character, so this was great for me. Very enjoyable. Lots of Zelenka too. I didn't think Ronan or Teyla fit this episode.

BYE

Yeade
December 14th, 2005, 02:42 PM
My two cents.

Re: The PJ

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the shield in "The Defiant One" was Wraith technology adapted to work on the jumper's systems by Greg, and JM clarified this in his Q&A thread (or someone did somewhere). The shield in this episode likely wasn't the same--Zelenka didn't necessarily go about creating the shield as Greg did, even assuming the properties of the two were identical because both were based on the cloaking mechanism--but Sheppard perhaps had, in addition to the shield-to-cloak switch in "The Siege," his close encounter with the Wraith shield in mind when he came up with the idea.

Anyways, the Atlanteans might very well build a cloak/shield switch into the jumpers. The only downside would be that the two systems can't be used together.

What impressed me even more was that I finally realized there's been continuity in the technology. In addition to the cloak/shield adaptability from "The Defiant One" and "The Siege," the expedition hermetically sealed the forward section of the jumper from the back after "Thirty-Eight Minutes." (This must have been done before McKay's EVA in "The Siege.") Yay for smart continuity!

Re: McKay

I won't go on and on praising DH for his acting--the episode speaks for itself there--but I will add that it's interesting to consider that fake!Carter is speaking for the new and fragile part of McKay that he's developed since he came to Atlantis. The McKay that knows his friends are motivated and more than competent and is willing to wait for a rescue. The McKay that trusts his people will come for him, hellfire or high water, no matter how abrasive his personality.

So, McKay, arguing with fake!Carter--essentially arguing with himself--must have reverted to his SG-1 days. Is this right? I haven't, er, watched SG-1.

McKay's time in the sunk jumper is also a continuation of the SGA theme that it's hard for these people to believe in and depend on others. And nobody's trust was misplaced, even if someone had to die to save the day, throughout S1 and most of S2. Then... WHAM! "Trinity" happened. The episodes after that, up to "Grace Under Pressure," has been rebuilding the feeling that, yeah, trust and everyone will somehow struggle through. I'm getting kind of nervous that TPTB are setting everything up for another fall. Maybe a larger one than "Trinity" because the S2 finale is coming up. :S

Re: Sheppard

You know, as much as it pains me sometimes that after 34 episodes I still know next to nothing about Sheppard's past, I can understand that the character presents something of a challenge to the writers. While McKay pretty much wears his heart on his sleeve, Sheppard hides or locks away so much of himself and would never willingly share any real personal information.

"Grace Under Pressure" is to McKay what "Epiphany" was to Sheppard, but whereas McKay got immediately down to the business of panicking and making deathbed confessions, if only to his hallucinations, Sheppard's faith held out until it simply couldn't (and this took days), at which point he privately broke down, got resigned, and went on as best he could because, hey, he really believed (wanted to believe) life wouldn't screw him over but it has before.

Plus McKay comes apart in a way that might get him and others killed, yes, but this is because he wouldn't get any work done. Whereas I suspect Sheppard--who internalizes and represses, like, everything bad that's ever happened to him--would come apart rather spectacularly. Probably explosively and violently. Just ask the Genii and Bob...

Oh, wait! That's right! They're dead! :p

The really scary thing is that, if it reaches a certain point, he wouldn't be able to reassert control. And the writers need him to do hero things. Without getting psychotic about it.

That said, JF and the writers have given us glimpses of what I would say makes Sheppard who he is. It's the why of it that's missing.

On display in this episode is Sheppard's "never say die" attitude about his people, his (surprisingly?) sharp and agile intelligence, and his very personal leadership style. Sheppard wouldn't even consider that McKay and Griffin didn't make it to the back of the jumper in time--as if him saying it would make it true--was more than willing to drag Zelenka on the rescue at gunpoint, and wouldn't leave until they'd at least tried something when the grappler wouldn't work. He comes up with the grappler idea in the first place, knew enough about the research being done in Atlantis to tap that obscure oceanographic project, had enough technical know-how to supervise, and understood Lassie the Alien Whale. He, of course, flies the second jumper down himself. Which he and McKay have apparently been annoying Weir about doing for a while (the dorks).

This is not an insubstantial amount of characterization, but it's almost all in the action and acting, supplemented by whatever implications could be drawn from the dialogue of other characters. Sheppard might be the only one of the main characters who gets quite so... unbalanced a treatment in characterization.

Re: Zelenka

That Zelenka is nervous, still, going off-world or into dangerous situations is apparent in "Duet" and, more recently, his short, short scene in "The Hive." Yay for smart foreshadowing and characterization!

I think McKay's been so (unwillingly) heroic for the sake of Atlantis and, in particular, his team that it's easy to forget not every scientist is so self-sacrificing and brave. If anything, actually, I bet the military has been doing its damnedest to protect the science division. Griffin, who was relatively new to Atlantis from the Deddy, didn't hesitate to lay down his life for McKay, and Lord knows Sheppard wouldn't countenance anything less from the Atlantis Marines.

Let me just take a moment to say that OMG I <3 SGA!

Ahem. That is, the military contingent of Atlantis and the Deddy would die without question to save the civilians, who are the heart of the mission, and the civilians more often than not rise to the occasion--as Zelenka did--and perform feats of heroism they never would've believed they could to return the favor and save everybody. That's really... I mean... wow.

...

Erm. More like my two (thousand) dollars, huh? :o :p


edit: Lassie the Alien Whale

ShadowMaat
December 14th, 2005, 02:54 PM
Zelenka was great in this ep. Although I'm a bit surprised that Sam didn't vocalize what I was thinking after Rodney b****ed about how Zelenka should have been on the mission: Maybe Radek was well aware of that and felt guilty about it.

Hope we get to see more of him in future eps. Oh, and how cool is it that Zelenka had to play off of someone OTHER than McKay?

It makes me wish all the more that we could see an AU ep where Zelenka became the lead scientist after McKay was killed. It'd be interesting to see how that would affect things (including Radek himself). I like his comparatively calm reaction to crisis. McKay's freak-outs are always fun to watch, but I like Radek's quiet efficiency, too. And, of course, the muttering in Czech. ;)

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
December 14th, 2005, 03:07 PM
Zelenka was great in this ep. Although I'm a bit surprised that Sam didn't vocalize what I was thinking after Rodney b****ed about how Zelenka should have been on the mission: Maybe Radek was well aware of that and felt guilty about it.

Hope we get to see more of him in future eps. Oh, and how cool is it that Zelenka had to play off of someone OTHER than McKay?

It makes me wish all the more that we could see an AU ep where Zelenka became the lead scientist after McKay was killed. It'd be interesting to see how that would affect things (including Radek himself). I like his comparatively calm reaction to crisis. McKay's freak-outs are always fun to watch, but I like Radek's quiet efficiency, too. And, of course, the muttering in Czech. ;)
That was a good Zelenka. His best episode of the Series, I think.

Yeade
December 14th, 2005, 03:22 PM
Oh, and how cool is it that Zelenka had to play off of someone OTHER than McKay?Very cool. :D

I found Zelenka and Sheppard rather... soothing. Neither are as high-strung as McKay (then again, who is?), and both react to crisis situations by getting smart, calm, and kind of scarily efficient and effective. Zelenka just doesn't have Sheppard's martyr streak. Though he can be persuaded to temporarily grow one. ;)

On the flip side, McKay is sent off with Griffin (read: a military guy who isn't Sheppard) and reacts pretty much the same way he did when he was alone with Lorne in "Runner."

Sheppard and his charming flyboy personality get along well with everybody, even if these people aren't quite as tuned to his little quirks, but McKay... Well, I'm thinking the entire science division and all the other Atlantis recon team leaders thank whatever deities they believe in every day that Sheppard wanted McKay on his team. This way, he's not in Atlantis all the time and he isn't tramping about off-world with you.

Not that people aren't grateful to McKay for saving the city time and again--or just plain hold a great deal of affection for him as a friend and peer--but he'd be hard to deal with day after day. People would die for him and do whatever it takes to rescue him, but when there isn't a crisis, for pity's sake, Dr. McKay, stop screaming over my shoulder, take a vacation, and let me do my work in peace! :p

Astrofighter
December 14th, 2005, 05:09 PM
the whale creature was picking up on the distress beacon, whales speak to each other through sound waves. The distress beacon was sending out a single on a wavelength pattern that the creature could pick up and had never heard before so it was curious and came to investigate. They have found that with certain harmonic signals can attract pods of whales to the source of the signal. The writers took it to and just made it an alien whale nothing telepathic about it.

Quinn Mallory
December 14th, 2005, 05:11 PM
I thoroughly enjoyed this episode since I've always been a big Carter fan. I can see people who doens't enjoy McKay to find this episode being a bit slow early on.

Good Zelenka character development as well. I wonder if the McKay/Zelenka relationship will change a bit after this episode.

the fifth man
December 14th, 2005, 06:30 PM
This ep definitely sounds kick-a**. I can't wait until we in the States get to see it. Carter in her underwear, gotta see that one.:) Plus, I just love the eps those two have been in together (Carter and McKay).

Liverpool_chicK
December 14th, 2005, 07:35 PM
I totally LOVED this episode, but dont get mad at em for saying.... I feel with the last couple of episodes, that TPTB are recycling old Stargate episodes, but with a makeover. I sat through the show, thinking to myself that I had seen something like this once before. However David made up for it, with his crazy Canuck humour. I just dislike seeing recycle story ideas.

rexpop
December 14th, 2005, 08:09 PM
Overall a great episode, one of this seasons best. However a couple of things are worth mentioning:

- I really hope this is the last McKay centric episode this season and the maybe for the first half of the next. While I love the guy, a little Rodney goes a long way but 3 episodes is pushing it a bit. Hopefully the writers will now focus on some of the other characters, like Weir who has barely had any development all season despite being the female lead.

- I liked that they focused on one plot thread this episode rather than trying to cram in a b-plot. 'Critical Mass' suffered because of that. Hopefully this is a trend that will continue.

GatetheWay
December 14th, 2005, 08:40 PM
After seeing this episode I'm kind of surprised that Ancients built the Jumpers with GLASS windsheilds when the PJs were being used as subs. The back half sealed off lasted much longer under the water pressure then the front half. The windshield was the weakest part of the Jumper so why have a windshield at all?

In the scifi miniseries the Triangle, they go down in a sub and instead of having glass windows they had these sort off electronic windows that projected what was outside so they can had a view without providing a weakness for the pressure to exploit.

One would think the Ancients would come up with something like that but better.

macktheknife
December 14th, 2005, 10:28 PM
I would have not bothered with the windshield, kept the same material for the front, and put a hud\view screen up. And yeah, no more mckay only. And more please more one plot shows. They are stronger.

Cynicat
December 15th, 2005, 04:19 AM
The partially dressed Sam didn't bother me cause it was in context. She was McKay's hallucination and she was trying to distract him, what else could she do?

Prime/Not Prime? ;)

Another freakin' AWESOME performance by DH - like Ben Browder, he's another actor who does 'unhinged' very well. The character development for McKay over these two seasons has been fantastic, and the Carter-as-subconscious really showed that. The writers aren't afraid to strip the character bare of his defences, and have an actor who is not the least bit afraid of going to those places. That said, it would be very nice to see the same level of development for some of the other characters - namely Sheppard *jumps on the "Gorramit, We Know Nothing About The Hero!" bandwagon* I'm hoping TPTB have something good in the works for him, 'cause it's clear JF can go there.

Speaking of the lovely Shep, it was nice to see how he handles a crisis like this. With nothing to shoot at, he goes on a Tony Robbins hyper-efficiency kick - rallying the many capable minds and bodies around him into action, and asserting his leadership to formulate a rescue plan.

The VFX in this episode were fantastic, the PJ crash and underwater sequences looked great. On the practical front, the submerged PJ set was an art department marvel - 'water tank' type sets aren't a simple undertaking.

russ_sg1
December 15th, 2005, 05:56 AM
Did anyone notice Shepherds sneaky comment about the winch being originally used to lower the F302s into the jumper bay? What possible reason could they have for this as they cant take off from the bay and they cant fit through the gate...

any ideas cos I'm all out!

prion
December 15th, 2005, 08:29 AM
Did anyone notice Shepherds sneaky comment about the winch being originally used to lower the F302s into the jumper bay? What possible reason could they have for this as they cant take off from the bay and they cant fit through the gate...

any ideas cos I'm all out!

Uh, er, maybe F302s have VTOL capabilities? Or they wanted to bring one in to work on it (repairs?)

Arlessiar
December 15th, 2005, 08:32 AM
Did anyone notice Shepherds sneaky comment about the winch being originally used to lower the F302s into the jumper bay? What possible reason could they have for this as they cant take off from the bay and they cant fit through the gate...any ideas cos I'm all out! I asked myself the same question when I heard that - why do they need the F302 on Atlantis, they have the Puddlejumpers!
Maybe they lost too many PJ already and want to have more aircrafts to potect the city. Maybe there are also a few pilots who had no luck with the gene therapy and cannot fly a PJ.

Bye, A.

xfkirsten
December 15th, 2005, 08:36 AM
My thought on the 302s was just that it was for variety in spacecraft. I mean, different types of aircraft have different strengths and weaknesses, so there's a variety of them out there for whatever suits their needs. I just figured it was something along those lines. :)

prion
December 15th, 2005, 08:41 AM
After seeing this episode I'm kind of surprised that Ancients built the Jumpers with GLASS windsheilds when the PJs were being used as subs. The back half sealed off lasted much longer under the water pressure then the front half. The windshield was the weakest part of the Jumper so why have a windshield at all?

In the scifi miniseries the Triangle, they go down in a sub and instead of having glass windows they had these sort off electronic windows that projected what was outside so they can had a view without providing a weakness for the pressure to exploit.

One would think the Ancients would come up with something like that but better.

Well, the jumper isn't a sub, and therefore can only take so much pressure. I mean, if you take one of our shuttles, crash it and sink it 2-6,000 feet below seal level, the windows on it might crack too, plus, we have no idea what damage might have been done in the crash.

My bugaboo, after watching it a second time, is Zelenka reaching McKay on the radio. McKay wakes up and Zelenka goes "we've been trying to reach you for an hour." If you're unconscious for an hour, you are not going to be walking and talking in an okay fashion. We're talking major concussion or worse (shades of subdural hematomas, quite fashioned in the '70s on Mod Squad and the like). And...... stuck in FREEZING water... definite hypothermia. Oh well, maybe he just passed out after the hatch sealed shut on the other jumper (did love the 'shield bridge' between the two jumpers). But then we really don't know about what kind of weather pattern Atlantis resides; and maybe the water wasn't Arctic temps but more tropical. So many variables...

xfkirsten
December 15th, 2005, 08:46 AM
Well, the jumper isn't a sub, and therefore can only take so much pressure. I mean, if you take one of our shuttles, crash it and sink it 2-6,000 feet below seal level, the windows on it might crack too, plus, we have no idea what damage might have been done in the crash.

I agree, and I think that kinda shoots down the whole "jumpers as submersibles" theory that McKay had. Unless they were only ever meant to be used in shallow water, or with the shield (which I find unlikely, given the huge power consumption).

Arlessiar
December 15th, 2005, 08:58 AM
If you're unconscious for an hour, you are not going to be walking and talking in an okay fashion. We're talking major concussion or worse (shades of subdural hematomas, quite fashioned in the '70s on Mod Squad and the like). Yes, I also think that he wouldn't have been that alert/coherent/walking around after a blow to his head sent him into unconsciousness for one hour. It also looked as if he was bleeding from the ear, which is as far as I know not a good sign after a head injury.
Ah yes, medical facts versus the wish to have a dramatic effect on a TV show... :)

Oh well, maybe he just passed out after the hatch sealed shut on the other jumper This is one of the reasons why I didn't want the ep to end so apruptly. I wanted to see what's up with Rodney, I wanted to see him getting some comfort and some talk about the trust issues afterwards, now that his friend rescued him and took care of his injuries.

Bye, A.

IMForeman
December 15th, 2005, 10:54 AM
Was this the first time the "3 million light years away" figure was mentioned as the distance between Pegasus and the Milky Way? If it is, then this episode finally settles the question which Pegasus we're talking about. This distance would make it the Pegasus Dwarf Irregular. The Pegasus Dwarf Spheroidal is much closer.

-IMF

Ace
December 15th, 2005, 11:04 AM
Was this the first time the "3 million light years away" figure was mentioned as the distance between Pegasus and the Milky Way? If it is, then this episode finally settles the question which Pegasus we're talking about. This distance would make it the Pegasus Dwarf Irregular. The Pegasus Dwarf Spheroidal is much closer.

-IMF

This wasn't the first time... I believe McKay said the 3 million light years distance in Season 1's Home. I can't be sure what episode it was... but I remember him saying that and then taking about hamburgers or something. *shrugs*

Ace

smushybird
December 15th, 2005, 11:26 AM
I’m actually trying to eat dinner, make screencaps and watch the episode again at the same time, and now I will also try to write this summary some people on other threads requested. I won’t go into every detail though, and I apologize for any mistakes:


Btw, that was a thoroughly awesome summary and thank you very much, Arlessiar. You are the best. ::more hugs for you::

I shouldn't be negative about the ep when I haven't seen it yet, so I won't any more. It does sound like a very good showcasing of David Hewlett's talent and I'm all for that, any time.

jazz!
December 15th, 2005, 12:01 PM
Beautiful Episode!

I would talk about how amazing AT was in it but I fear the wrath of the Boob Brigade! :p

Nice acting, nice story.

Arlessiar
December 15th, 2005, 12:32 PM
Btw, that was a thoroughly awesome summary and thank you very much, Arlessiar. You are the best. ::more hugs for you:: Awww, thankee! :)

Found a few mistakes in that summary by now, but I'm too lazy to correct them right now...

Bye, A.

eccscape
December 15th, 2005, 02:37 PM
This is one of the reasons why I didn't want the ep to end so apruptly. I wanted to see what's up with Rodney, I wanted to see him getting some comfort and some talk about the trust issues afterwards, now that his friend rescued him and took care of his injuries

yeah, me too!! i mean it wasn't necessary for the episode but i thought it would have been interesting to see. Maybe they ran out of time! I guess we can only hope that the writers don't ignore any consequential changes in mckays character over the next few weeks.

...but on the other hand, can we work on the other characters a bit now!!!

Mio
December 16th, 2005, 04:57 AM
I'm a little dissapointed that Atlantis's Sensors couldn't detect the exact location of the jumper. I mean, in 'Before I Sleep', they were able to. They can detect an approaching Wraith Hive Ship lightyears away, but they couldn't detect a jumper under some water?

IMForeman
December 16th, 2005, 07:32 AM
I'm a little dissapointed that Atlantis's Sensors couldn't detect the exact location of the jumper. I mean, in 'Before I Sleep', they were able to. They can detect an approaching Wraith Hive Ship lightyears away, but they couldn't detect a jumper under some water?

It's way, way easier to pick up something in the vaccum of space, particularly when they are giving out alot of energ. Detecting something under miles of water is very, very difficult.

prion
December 16th, 2005, 08:22 AM
I'm a little dissapointed that Atlantis's Sensors couldn't detect the exact location of the jumper. I mean, in 'Before I Sleep', they were able to. They can detect an approaching Wraith Hive Ship lightyears away, but they couldn't detect a jumper under some water?

Well, it's like this (and someone else said it too)... we can (well, could) fly a man to the moon, but we can't get to the bottom of the ocean. Water is dense, space isn't ;)

The Engineer
December 16th, 2005, 08:45 AM
Far fetched.
It was the worst episode of season 2, so far, if not of Atlantis.

GatetheWay
December 16th, 2005, 08:59 AM
Curious. How so?

The Engineer
December 16th, 2005, 09:09 AM
You don't have hallucinations by a bang in the head (like the one McKay had). Besides from what I've seen the inertial dampners weren't that screwed. Hypothermia doesn't work either. Besides it was too soon waaay too soon for that.
It would have worked better if they were to transport some hallucinogenic substances (for the Athosians' use in some bizarre ceremony of puff-puff-pass) and have the containers damage during the impact.:p

xfkirsten
December 16th, 2005, 09:21 AM
Hypothermia can actually happen very fast. In 50 degree (F) water, you're looking at 30-45 minutes, with death in three hours or so. There's been no indication yet as to the temperature of water around Atlantis, but that gives you a ballpark.

The Engineer
December 16th, 2005, 10:02 AM
I don't use Fahreheit as my system (it's an akward system, much like feet-yard-miles and pounds - but thats another issue). But I can tell what was the temperature of the water. Exactly. 4 degrees Celsius.
How? It has to do with the fact that water has the highest density at 4 degrees and at the bottom of the ocean or every lake that is deeper than a certain depth (more than 500meters there is no light (that's cca. 1500 ft) - you go figure) the water has no heat coming from the sun. And keeping in mind that at the bottom is the water with highest density there you go: 4 degrees Celsius. In Fahrenheit if I'm not mistaking is 4ºC * (9/5) + 13 = 20ºF.
As for how fast hypothermia can happen you know better than me.
But I'm not so sure of hallucination.

Cynicat
December 16th, 2005, 10:33 AM
Suspension of disbelief, people ;) Sometimes it hangs there all by itself like a helium balloon... and sometimes you have to hold it up with occy straps* and hope for the best. I'm all for accuracy, 'cause I'm a nitpicky little SOB, but at the same time I'd rather be entertained by an engaging story (even if that does mean introducing logic to a handy window on occasion).

*For non-Aussies: Occy/Octopus straps = elastic straps with hooks on the end, most commonly used for securing loads in vehicles, and holding suitcases closed.

The Engineer
December 16th, 2005, 10:49 AM
Unfortunately this story wasn't engaging story.
And in case of human insanity/hallucinacion I hardly suspend my beliefs.
Except the following:
schizophrenia....................................................not the case
mind altering substances.....................................not the case
mind control.....................................................not the case
temporary insanity (especially in the US courts)......not the case (this one I don't buy it, but it's acceptable only in movies)

The most believeble are the mind altering substances in Rodney's case.

xfkirsten
December 16th, 2005, 11:15 AM
I don't use Fahreheit as my system (it's an akward system, much like feet-yard-miles and pounds - but thats another issue). But I can tell what was the temperature of the water. Exactly. 4 degrees Celsius.
How? It has to do with the fact that water has the highest density at 4 degrees and at the bottom of the ocean or every lake that is deeper than a certain depth (more than 500meters there is no light (that's cca. 1500 ft) - you go figure) the water has no heat coming from the sun. And keeping in mind that at the bottom is the water with highest density there you go: 4 degrees Celsius. In Fahrenheit if I'm not mistaking is 4ºC * (9/5) + 13 = 20ºF.
As for how fast hypothermia can happen you know better than me.
But I'm not so sure of hallucination.

Ah, I was not aware of that. Then yes, hypothermia was a big issue at that temperature! To get an idea of how fast hypothermia occurs, check out the table on this (http://www.seagrant.umn.edu/tourism/hypothermia.html) page. It happens fast, and moving around makes it even worse - and most of the time, McKay was moving around the jumper trying to work on his plan! :)

As for the hallucination stuff, I really couldn't say on that one. I've somehow managed to avoid serious head injury, and I'm not a doctor. In any case, I know they they were tagging on the idea from the SG-1 episode "Grace," so I can suspend disbelief in this case. :)

ToasterOnFire
December 16th, 2005, 12:09 PM
Yeah, I just had to fanwank away Rodney being able to function that well in freezing waters. It's much like what I had to do when watching the scenes in Titanic when the hero and heroine were splish-splashing around in water chilled by icebergs...:rolleyes:

It would have been a nice effect to show his breath when he was nearly submerged though, since I would imagine it was that cold.

Mio
December 16th, 2005, 01:47 PM
It's way, way easier to pick up something in the vaccum of space, particularly when they are giving out alot of energ. Detecting something under miles of water is very, very difficult.

But they were the ANCIENTS.

They can send you millions of light years in a blink of an eye, and send a city through the void between galaxies, but they couldn't scan under an ocean?


I'm hoping that it's just some sensor array that we haven't found yet. Because they did it in 'Before I Sleep'....Though, the city WAS underwater at the time... :\

The Engineer
December 16th, 2005, 01:52 PM
Thanks, xfkirsten for the link.
From what I gathered from that site is that at 32.5°F in under 15 minutes you loose consciousness. So McKay would have to be unconsciouss long time before the rescue could come to him. After all 20.2°F is less than 32.5°F and the interval necessary for him to loos consciouss would have had to be far more shorter than 15 minutes.

The Engineer
December 16th, 2005, 01:59 PM
But they were the ANCIENTS.

They can send you millions of light years in a blink of an eye, and send a city through the void between galaxies, but they couldn't scan under an ocean?


I'm hoping that it's just some sensor array that we haven't found yet. Because they did it in 'Before I Sleep'....Though, the city WAS underwater at the time... :\

In the VOID there is nothing. In water si more. You can run faster than you could swimm. Boats cannot cruise faster than a Concorde, not to mention a space rocket. It's about density.

And do you think that they had the time and resources to play Jacques-Yves Cousteau when they had the Wraith coming from the stars?

The Engineer
December 16th, 2005, 02:02 PM
It would have been a nice effect to show his breath when he was nearly submerged though, since I would imagine it was that cold.
Yeah, that could have been "easily" fixed with some CGI (lol).
Seriously, I don't know if TPTB would have worked Hwelett's/McKay's pneumonia as easily as Vala's pregnancy.

GatetheWay
December 16th, 2005, 02:26 PM
Yeah, I just had to fanwank away Rodney being able to function that well in freezing waters. It's much like what I had to do when watching the scenes in Titanic when the hero and heroine were splish-splashing around in water chilled by icebergs...:rolleyes:

It would have been a nice effect to show his breath when he was nearly submerged though, since I would imagine it was that cold.
Didn't Sam say something about heating the water? I'm sure that would of staved it off for a while.

xfkirsten
December 16th, 2005, 02:52 PM
Thanks, xfkirsten for the link.
From what I gathered from that site is that at 32.5°F in under 15 minutes you loose consciousness. So McKay would have to be unconsciouss long time before the rescue could come to him. After all 20.2°F is less than 32.5°F and the interval necessary for him to loos consciouss would have had to be far more shorter than 15 minutes.

I suppose he's got a bit more leeway since he's just wading most of the time. I believe those numbers are based on being fully immersed and floating/swimming/treading water. But still, yes, he probably stayed conscious longer than he should have. :)

Agent_Dark
December 16th, 2005, 02:53 PM
I don't use Fahreheit as my system (it's an akward system, much like feet-yard-miles and pounds - but thats another issue). But I can tell what was the temperature of the water. Exactly. 4 degrees Celsius.
How? It has to do with the fact that water has the highest density at 4 degrees and at the bottom of the ocean or every lake that is deeper than a certain depth (more than 500meters there is no light (that's cca. 1500 ft) - you go figure) the water has no heat coming from the sun. And keeping in mind that at the bottom is the water with highest density there you go: 4 degrees Celsius. In Fahrenheit if I'm not mistaking is 4ºC * (9/5) + 13 = 20ºF.
As for how fast hypothermia can happen you know better than me.
But I'm not so sure of hallucination.
You're forgetting one thing - this isn't Earth. I'm sure those calculations are perfectly correct on Earth, but on a different planet they could be completely useless ;)

GatetheWay
December 16th, 2005, 04:41 PM
I'm all for suspention of disbelief because I like this episode but I'm sure no matter what planet you're on physics is still physics and water is still H2O.

NakedJehutyV2
December 16th, 2005, 05:17 PM
haha carte topless mckay head must've blown off

Tok'Ra Hostess
December 16th, 2005, 07:57 PM
It was an okay ep, but there was so much untouched potential that, IMNSHO, could have made it not only a better ep but have offered an enormous new character arc for the series.

Why, oh why wasn't "Carter" the physical manifestation of a water entity instead of yet another bump-on-the-head halucination?

It would have drawn on elements in the Stargate universe, like the SG-1, Watergate and the Atlantis, Home where the sentients were in the water and the air, respectively.

This way, MacKay could have had to deal with a life-threatening situation while communicating with a sentient lifeform in the shape of someone he thinks very highly of and his boo-boo on the head could have served as an excuse for him to be an ass while actually trying to show a little grace under pressure, which I didn't really see much of, by the way.

johndoe4880
December 16th, 2005, 07:59 PM
where can i find pictures from the epoised of Grace Under Pressure

The Engineer
December 16th, 2005, 11:03 PM
You're forgetting one thing - this isn't Earth. I'm sure those calculations are perfectly correct on Earth, but on a different planet they could be completely useless ;)
We are talking about water not about some invented metal like naqaudah or trinium whose properties can be whatever TPTB's desire. Water doesn't change properties.

BTW I was wrong about the transformation formula, it is: 4ºC * (9/5) + 32 = 39.2ºF, and I was so sure it was "+13" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit)) so some of my assumptions made based on this Fahrenheit temperature are a little of. But not concernig water properties. They remain unchanged regardless of where it is found here on Earth or on another planet in this solar system or otherwise, real or not (from TPTB's figment of imagination).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_(molecule)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_point
http://www.sv.vt.edu/classes/MSE2094_NoteBook/96ClassProj/pics/941.jpg

prion
December 17th, 2005, 04:44 AM
You don't have hallucinations by a bang in the head (like the one McKay had). Besides from what I've seen the inertial dampners weren't that screwed. Hypothermia doesn't work either. Besides it was too soon waaay too soon for that.


Damage to the occipital region of the brain could produce hallucinations (but not really seeing people!) so you could theorize he did hit that part of his head as well (I mean, look at how the jumper got knocked around before it sank).

Yeah, the idea that Sam was actually an alien water entity makes more sense and hey, why not? McKay just thinks she's in his mind but Sam's actually an Ascended white sprite screwing with his head because it had nothing better to do ;)

ShadowMaat
December 17th, 2005, 07:11 AM
Hmm... didn't the Hot Zone virus create hallucinations, too? What if the nanovirus had been culled from the ocean floor, or some of 'em had evolved beyond their programming to become an actual entity? Although that'd probably be a little TOO Entity-like...

I agree. Lots and lots of untapped potential in this ep and it would have been SO much nicer for the explanation to have been something tangible rather than a stupid hallucination.

freyr's mother
December 17th, 2005, 07:18 AM
What the hell is wrong with TPTB. I haven't seen the episode but why are they killing off characters, and trashing jumpers. I don't know if i can take much more of this.

ToasterOnFire
December 17th, 2005, 08:46 AM
Hmmm...along those lines, does anyone know what the current running count on PJs is? I would imagine that salvaging that PJ off the ocean floor would be a tad difficult, but perhaps possible if the water was drained and a shield was extended around it and the PJ with a crane to pull it up?

The Engineer
December 17th, 2005, 10:31 AM
Hmmm...along those lines, does anyone know what the current running count on PJs is?
at least minus two:
one in The Siege III and one in Grace Under Pressure.

IMForeman
December 17th, 2005, 11:28 AM
at least minus two:
one in The Siege III and one in Grace Under Pressure.

One in The Brotherhood as well.

IMForeman
December 17th, 2005, 11:33 AM
You're forgetting one thing - this isn't Earth. I'm sure those calculations are perfectly correct on Earth, but on a different planet they could be completely useless ;)

The laws of physics and the properties of water would be the same. The only variables might be salinity(as salt water is denser and more boyant than fresh water) and Lantea's gravity. However, I think we can discount them both, as it has been mentioned that the ocean is salt-water and the gravity appears to be at least so close to 1g that there is no perceptible difference. There's no reason to think that terrestrial physics wouldn't hold true on Lantea.

-IMF

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
December 17th, 2005, 11:43 AM
One in The Brotherhood as well.
I don't remember one being seen or used in that episode.

IMForeman
December 17th, 2005, 11:45 AM
I don't remember one being seen or used in that episode.

A Wraith dart buzzes the city, and 3 jumpers go to intercept it, and the one poor Markham is piloting is shot down.

brandohall
December 17th, 2005, 12:38 PM
I don't use Fahreheit as my system (it's an akward system, much like feet-yard-miles and pounds - but thats another issue). But I can tell what was the temperature of the water. Exactly. 4 degrees Celsius.
How? It has to do with the fact that water has the highest density at 4 degrees and at the bottom of the ocean or every lake that is deeper than a certain depth (more than 500meters there is no light (that's cca. 1500 ft) - you go figure) the water has no heat coming from the sun. And keeping in mind that at the bottom is the water with highest density there you go: 4 degrees Celsius. In Fahrenheit if I'm not mistaking is 4ºC * (9/5) + 13 = 20ºF.
As for how fast hypothermia can happen you know better than me.
But I'm not so sure of hallucination.

This calculation is not correct. To change C to F, it is (9/5)ºC + 32 = F

GatetheWay
December 17th, 2005, 01:07 PM
Let's see Jumper Count would be...3

One was shot down by the Wraith in The Brotherhood
In the Siege, one was destoryed in blowing up a Hive ship and Ford stole another one (not sure if they later recovered that one, but I'm assuming that they did).
One was shot down in Condemned but I'm assuming it was also later recovered to be repaired and crashed again in Grace Under Pressure.

Dr. Elisabeth Weir
December 17th, 2005, 01:52 PM
But !!!!!

There are more than 5 jumpers ! How do I know this? Zelenka told so. After the intro Zelenka clearly says jumper 6 !!

Witch means there are more than the ones we saw in the beginning.
My opinion about this episode is that this is one of the best episodes I have ever ever ever seen !!! Great acting. Indeed it was'nt the same Sam Carter from SG.1 but hey it is McKays imagination. I really like this episode ! For those who haven't seen it, just wait ! You'll be amazed.

Orange Crush
December 17th, 2005, 04:57 PM
But !!!!!

There are more than 5 jumpers ! How do I know this? Zelenka told so. After the intro Zelenka clearly says jumper 6 !!


Shep also tells Weir to have the dive team in jumper 8 standing by, so we know there are at least 8 originals.

I'd bet they have maybe a dozen or so--enough to not be running out of them for missions but not so many as they'd attempt to recover and repair one that had been shot down.

-Nick

Agent_Dark
December 17th, 2005, 05:18 PM
The laws of physics and the properties of water would be the same. The only variables might be salinity(as salt water is denser and more boyant than fresh water) and Lantea's gravity. However, I think we can discount them both, as it has been mentioned that the ocean is salt-water and the gravity appears to be at least so close to 1g that there is no perceptible difference. There's no reason to think that terrestrial physics wouldn't hold true on Lantea.

-IMF
However it IS another planet. There's also the possibility that it is different from Earth.
And put it this way - Rodney didn't catch hypothermia, even though the calculations (Earth based) say he should have. So what does that mean? The writers screwed up is the obvious, but thats not an explanation for what happened 'In Universe' (unless of course, you believe that the Stargate universe has Mystical, All-Powerful beings known as 'Writers' that control everything that happens ;)). The only other possibility I see is that the water does behave differently on Lantea. Perhaps there's a different make-up to the Lantea ocean - another element in the water for example.

Willow'sCat
December 17th, 2005, 05:30 PM
Let's see Jumper Count would be...3

One was shot down in Condemned but I'm assuming it was also later recovered to be repaired and crashed again in Grace Under Pressure.Yes this was a test flight for the PJ that was shot down *was it Condemned?* anyway they clearly state this at the beginning of the episode. :cool: Of course the test didn't go so well. :D

TheCaptain
December 18th, 2005, 01:21 AM
I thought this was a great episode, good development for McKay - as if he needs more eps devoted to him thou :p - and it was good the way that we saw more of Radek stepping up to the plate, and Sheppard coming up with smart inventive ideas to rescue a teammember.

The whole PJ trashing and killing off of Atlantis expedition members, though understandable considering the risky environment they're operating in on a daily basis with such technology, is getting a little continuous, so a bit of an ease-up on this would IMO be a good thing.

I loved the way Carter was not quite Carter, but more of what Rodney would imagine Sam as from his own egotistical prespective, it was great. And I have to say, the whole Sam-in-blue-bikini moment was pretty alrite too in my books ;)

A better story-driven rescue episode than I was expecting, actually, considering just how many TPTB have done in the Stargate universe over the years.

But a little less focus on the three MAIN component characters of Atlantis, least in my opinion, - John, Rodney and Elizabeth - and a little more info/stories on the others would go down quite well right about now, or in some stage further down the line, in S3.

Capt

Wraith_Hunter
December 18th, 2005, 08:28 AM
I noticed a screw up in this epsiode by the writers.

In the season one episode 'Suspicion'.

Here is a some dialogue relating to the distance back to the MW.


Zelenka: I mean, I don't think it's too much to ask.
McKay: What is it?
Zelenka: Nothing, nothing. I just can't bear the same meal day after day after day...
McKay: Well, buck up a little. I'm trying to run a diagnostic.
Zelenka: Sorry.
McKay: I mean, we are stranded with limited resources in another galaxy. Come on, the nearest Bob's Big Boy is three hundred million light years away. We have to make do. If that means you have to eat my favorite food two days in a row, so be it.

Yet in this ep, Carter says that she is three million light years away with problems of her own.

IMForeman
December 18th, 2005, 09:02 AM
I noticed a screw up in this epsiode by the writers.

In the season one episode 'Suspicion'.

Here is a some dialogue relating to the distance back to the MW.



Yet in this ep, Carter says that she is three million light years away with problems of her own.

It's the quote from Suspicion that's incorrect. The Pegasus Dwarf Irregular is somewhere between 3.25 and 3.5 million light years away. 300 million is much too far out, way outside the Local Group. You'd probably have to do a Nine symbol address to reach a galaxy that far out.

ShadowMaat
December 18th, 2005, 09:07 AM
Yeah, and we all know McKay isn't one to exagerrate things for effect. ;)

Dorka
December 18th, 2005, 10:29 AM
Finally after nearly a week, I managed to watch this episode.

It was o.k, nothing compared to last week, but o.k!

Well...McKay talking to himself...who was surprised by that *evilgrin* ;) Poor Puddle Jumper... maybe he should get a sticker: "I'm not only a Puddle Jumper, I'm also a lemon" :)

I totaly loved the whale... Hopefully we will see more of the Atlantica-Sea-life!

Sam in Atlantis was o.k but surely I don't feel like having this too much in later episodes!
And the bra :eek:... looked more like the one my grandmother wears than something she would wear *grmpf*

I really like Radek, especially when he speaks Czech.

I also loved the interaction between John and Elizabeth, they are the perfect team even more and more. The differences in S1 seem to be forgotten. I totaly love how they can communicate without words.
And the Sparky-ship had acturally real sparks flying around :D

Now I'm looking forward more to "The Tower" surely won't wait 6 days to watch it :D

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
December 18th, 2005, 06:34 PM
I really like Radek, especially when he speaks Czech.
Hey, when Radek speak in Czech, I rely on you guys here (on the forum) to tell me what he said. And I not lying, I don't understand Czech. Seriously, Subtitles would be very useful.

ShadowMaat
December 18th, 2005, 06:53 PM
Hey, when Radek speak in Czech, I rely on you guys here (on the forum) to tell me what he said. And I not lying, I don't understand Czech. Seriously, Subtitles would be very useful.
Subtitles? Pffft! Where's the fun in that? ;)

PG15
December 18th, 2005, 08:20 PM
Besides, they won't be TV friendly anyway. :D

Dorka
December 19th, 2005, 12:16 AM
Hey, when Radek speak in Czech, I rely on you guys here (on the forum) to tell me what he said. And I not lying, I don't understand Czech. Seriously, Subtitles would be very useful.

*g* there are some people who do a great job with translating :D

I'm Hungarian...so I understand a few words... but I think David gives us the hint just perfectly, with only his acting, to understand him nevertheless :D

Battousai the Manslayer
December 23rd, 2005, 06:07 PM
Carter Cleavage!!!!

The Engineer
December 25th, 2005, 07:38 AM
Carter Cleavage!!!!
I thought it was rather pathetic.
If I want something close to that I watch a porn. Sci-fi should remain sci-fi not cheap porn allusions.
Yeah! and Merry Christmas too everyone! (for those who celebrate it).

Linzi
December 27th, 2005, 03:37 AM
I thought this was a total McKay love-fest episode. The whole concept was flawed. If you hallucinate you don't realise it's not real! 'I'm your subconscious mind blah, blah, blah'. What a load of rubbish! The whole episode was an excuse to have McKay freaking out -AGAIN - how original!
Carter on Atlantis here was rubbish too. What a dis-service to a great character. How many more heaving bosom's do I have to put up with? Tacky and cheap, IMO.
In all the episode's I've watched I've NEVER wanted to hit the fast forward button - until now!
Yes PTB, you love McKay, I know that. Please give some other characters screen time and give McKay something else to do other than freaking out! He is such a good character, please use him wisely, this stuff is getting old so quickly.
The only parts of this episode I enjoyed were the underwater aspect, the whale, and Sheppard and Zelenka on the PJ.
The rest was a poor excuse for an episode and really, really boring IMO. How disappointing...

PG15
December 27th, 2005, 12:19 PM
I thought this was a total McKay love-fest episode. The whole concept was flawed. If you hallucinate you don't realise it's not real! 'I'm your subconscious mind blah, blah, blah'. What a load of rubbish!

You know this from experience?

I don't, so please enlighten me.


The whole episode was an excuse to have McKay freaking out -AGAIN - how original!

Screw originality, it's entertaining.


Carter on Atlantis here was rubbish too. What a dis-service to a great character. How many more heaving bosom's do I have to put up with? Tacky and cheap, IMO.

It's not Carter, it's McKay's view of Carter, which in this case fit perfectly.

Linzi
December 28th, 2005, 01:16 AM
You know this from experience?

I don't, so please enlighten me.

Yes actually I do. You believe what you see is real until it's over and when you're recovered you obviously realise it wasn't real. Even then the memories still seem real. You don't rationalize at the time, it's not an hallucination otherwise! That's why they can be so frightening and disturbing.




Screw originality, it's entertaining.

In YOUR opinion, not mine.




It's not Carter, it's McKay's view of Carter, which in this case fit perfectly.

How do you know what McKay's view of Carter is?

Bottom line - I found the episode boring.

gooner_diva
December 28th, 2005, 03:42 AM
It's the quote from Suspicion that's incorrect. The Pegasus Dwarf Irregular is somewhere between 3.25 and 3.5 million light years away.
It hasn't been made clear if the Pegasus Galaxy they're referring to is Pegasus Dwarf Spheroidal or Irregular. Daniel just said "it's the name of a dwarf galaxy in the Local Group". In any case, neither of them is 300 million light years away so McKay was wrong in Suspicion. :eek: :D I mean, that kind of distance would take you outside the Virgo Supercluster. I doubt the Z.P.M. could provide enough power to dial the Stargate or that the Daedalus could get there so fast.

maxbo
December 28th, 2005, 06:36 AM
Add me to the growing list of fans who can't understand the "why" of this episode. What did we learn about McKay that we didn't already know? Answer - NOTHING! We learned absolutely nothing new about this already heavily featured character, so why did TPTB believe it was necessary to write an episode that featured him to the exclusion of 3 other regular, but barely featured, characters?

Teyla, Carson and Ronon have had so little development, compared to Rodney, that often they are just a part of the background. Although I love Rodney, enough is enough. This is supposed to be a show with an ensemble cast, not the Rodney McKay hour. This dependence on Rodney to carry the show is not fair to any of the characters, including McKay. He's been featured so much that he's already becoming stale, IMO, and we're only half way through Season 2.

Linzi
December 28th, 2005, 12:23 PM
Add me to the growing list of fans who can't understand the "why" of this episode. What did we learn about McKay that we didn't already know? Answer - NOTHING! We learned absolutely nothing new about this already heavily featured character, so why did TPTB believe it was necessary to write an episode that featured him to the exclusion of 3 other regular, but barely featured, characters?

Teyla, Carson and Ronon have had so little development, compared to Rodney, that often they are just a part of the background. Although I love Rodney, enough is enough. This is supposed to be a show with an ensemble cast, not the Rodney McKay hour. This dependence on Rodney to carry the show is not fair to any of the characters, including McKay. He's been featured so much that he's already becoming stale, IMO, and we're only half way through Season 2.
I agree. It is an ensemble cast. I missed the other 3 regulars here too. In Epiphany they all featured, but then again it didn't have as much Sheppard as GUP had of McKay, which is why Epiphany felt more balanced IMO.
McKay is becoming a bit of a one trick pony,IMO, which is a terrible shame for such a great character.
I love McKay best when he's in quieter, less frenetic scenes and I adore him in his interactions with Sheppard or Zelenka. By himself, for so long as in GUP, when he was constantly freaking out, really made me cringe and I was bored too. This could have been a good episode, quite simply, IMO, it was a showcase for an over-used character and a poor one at that.

Merlin7
December 28th, 2005, 12:44 PM
Add me to the growing list of fans who can't understand the "why" of this episode. What did we learn about McKay that we didn't already know? Answer - NOTHING! We learned absolutely nothing new about this already heavily featured character, so why did TPTB believe it was necessary to write an episode that featured him to the exclusion of 3 other regular, but barely featured, characters?

Teyla, Carson and Ronon have had so little development, compared to Rodney, that often they are just a part of the background. Although I love Rodney, enough is enough. This is supposed to be a show with an ensemble cast, not the Rodney McKay hour. This dependence on Rodney to carry the show is not fair to any of the characters, including McKay. He's been featured so much that he's already becoming stale, IMO, and we're only half way through Season 2.

Word. And I would love to see an ep where Rodney is back at SG1 and Carson and Rodney joined Shep's team and the FIVE of them were what the ep was about. ANd yes..I know Shep is featured in every ep second only to Rodney...but he's not developed. Quantity screen time does NOT make up for quality screen time.

IMage Zelenka and Carson on Shep's team. Them offworld and dealing with a dangerous situation and what intense drama we could get. Especially say if shep got injured/incapacitated. Teyla would probably call the shots. Beckett would have to deal with treating Shep in a dangerous/life threatening situation. Zelenka would have to brainstorm them out of there and back to Atlantis and Ronon could be the one to keep them safe. That would be freaking cool.

Linzi
December 28th, 2005, 01:05 PM
Word. And I would love to see an ep where Rodney is back at SG1 and Carson and Rodney joined Shep's team and the FIVE of them were what the ep was about. ANd yes..I know Shep is featured in every ep second only to Rodney...but he's not developed. Quantity screen time does NOT make up for quality screen time.

IMage Zelenka and Carson on Shep's team. Them offworld and dealing with a dangerous situation and what intense drama we could get. Especially say if shep got injured/incapacitated. Teyla would probably call the shots. Beckett would have to deal with treating Shep in a dangerous/life threatening situation. Zelenka would have to brainstorm them out of there and back to Atlantis and Ronon could be the one to keep them safe. That would be freaking cool.
I feel a FF plot bunny is emerging here. Why can't the writers write something like that? How cool would that be? It'd be awesome! See, FF writers CAN do a better job than the writers.....

maxbo
December 28th, 2005, 01:36 PM
Linzi, I agree with you about why Epiphany worked for me and Grace Under Pressure (GUP) didn't. Although I would have loved more Shep back story in Epiphany, I enjoyed what we got. GUP was just too much of out-of-control Rodney to be entertaining to me. In a more balanced episode (like Epiphany) there's usually someone around to calm him down - or at least distract him.

Merlin7, I love your story idea. It's truly sad that the fans can come up with more interesting storylines than the professionals. *sigh* I also agree with you about Shep. Yes, he's on screen alot, but we know almost nothing about him. Too bad Epiphany didn't quite live up to its promise and didn't give us anything meaty about his background.

Until The Tower, I wasn't too concerned about this oversight because I figured that we would get more Shep development later, however, after seeing The Tower, I'm not sure if we'll ever know more about who Shep is because it appears that TPTB can't be bothered to consider him as more than the guy who hooks up with the babe of the week. :(

PG15
December 28th, 2005, 11:30 PM
How do you know what McKay's view of Carter is?



Easy, I watched this episode.

Come on, considering how McKay acts (ie, with the Aurora first officer), this is very very consistant.

prion
January 1st, 2006, 07:19 AM
IMage Zelenka and Carson on Shep's team. Them offworld and dealing with a dangerous situation and what intense drama we could get. Especially say if shep got injured/incapacitated. Teyla would probably call the shots. Beckett would have to deal with treating Shep in a dangerous/life threatening situation. Zelenka would have to brainstorm them out of there and back to Atlantis and Ronon could be the one to keep them safe. That would be freaking cool.

:) Yup. That's what fan fiction is for! I'd love to see some more team episodes. They've been splitting them up too much lately.

Arlessiar
January 11th, 2006, 06:53 AM
There are some new (at least for me) Behind the scenes pics of this episode here, you just have to a scroll down a little bit to see them:

GUP pics (http://www.stargate-project.de/stargate/index.php?seite=atlantis_episodenguide&aktion=showfolge&ID=34)

I wonder where they filmed this episode. That looks like a lot of water around them in the first pic, but it's very clear and obviously not that cold since Martin Wood is even walking around shirtless! :)

And the kiss pics are posed because Rodney didn't kiss Sam on the mouth when she was still wearing the pink jacket, but they are cute nonetheless! :)

Bye, A.

Schrodinger82
January 25th, 2006, 11:21 PM
SHEPPARD: When the Wraith attacked the city, you were able to turn the shield into a cloak.
ZELENKA: Yes.
SHEPPARD: Why can’t we do the opposite?
WEIR: Turn the Jumper’s cloak into a shield.
SHEPPARD: That’s right.

Was anyone else bothered by Sheppard's line of reasoning?

They didn't turn the shield into the cloak by fiddling with a few controls and changing the settings and what not. They turned the shield into a cloak by unplugging the shield and physically installing a cloak generator from one of the puddlejumpers. Ergo, the plan that Sheppard was describing shouldn't have worked.

prion
January 27th, 2006, 03:10 PM
I wonder where they filmed this episode. That looks like a lot of water around them in the first pic, but it's very clear and obviously not that cold since Martin Wood is even walking around shirtless! :)



Usually whenever you film a water scene like that they simply build a tank (inside a warehouse) wherever is controlled. Heck, if they could make an ocean for JAWS 3, a little submerged puddle jumper is easy)

xfkirsten
January 27th, 2006, 03:11 PM
Usually whenever you film a water scene like that they simply build a tank (inside a warehouse) wherever is controlled. Heck, if they could make an ocean for JAWS 3, a little submerged puddle jumper is easy)

Jaws 3 cheated and used SeaWorld. ;)

AGateFan
January 27th, 2006, 05:58 PM
Too bad they will kill this random pilot He’s amusing.
Zelenka!!!
Wow, pilot guy sacrificed himself for Rodney. Not only was he amusing he was very very cool… too bad he got killed off.
Communications are down…yep, your scrwd.
Its like Surface meets SGA :) Except this is a really, really high tech tin can.

Yelling at the ship is just using oxygen there Rodney. Stop hyperventilating and get back to work. Took you long enough to figure that out. But considering the circumstances….

Chocolate and peanut butter, cool.
Monster?... Nimh? Really cool.

Hey , Mckay Carter fantasy.
“Good to see you Mckay”?… well obviously a fantasy. He secretly thinks that Carter is smarter than him and is arguing with himself over it…hahaha

You can’t order him Shep, he’s a civilian. But we knew he would come through didn’t we.
Mckay knows his team cares awe…Come on Mckay, when has Shep ever abandoned anyone.
Hey speaking of abandon, where’s Teyla and Ronan?

“I am a mindgame” …. Hahaha
Good you came to a stop…. Uh oh you got a leak.

Sheppard is such a kid.
“Make death as long and drawn out as possible”.
That was sure a funny “sure”.
Poor Rodney has a low opinion of himself.
Uh oh… kissing himself.. “worst hallucination ever”. Hahaha

Doh, blaming poor Zelenka.. guys getting beat up in this ep.
Uh, oh… now the shippy\cringworthy stuff starts…. He must be really losing it now.
Hahaha … so it was all a plan to slow him down… ok then I am ok with it.

Doh, didn’t work.
Good thinking with the sea monster Shep.
Poor, poor Rodney.
Extend shield between two jumpers? Hmmm so what, Mckay can walk to the other jumper? Sure its not a hallucination? Just kidding. Doh, he did think of that.. oops.
Dang, nothing is going right for him today.
OK, that was cool… Nice whale.

Good ep. MUCH better then I expected it to be.

Cinephilic TV Addict
January 27th, 2006, 06:00 PM
Holy crap - this episode was fantastic. all the minor problems were overcome by the message of the episode, and, although it was a bit predictable (or maybe that's just because i've taken too many tv writing classes that they might be starting to sink in finally), it was remarkable.

3 1/2 stars.

katrin
January 27th, 2006, 06:11 PM
OKIE DOKIE

just got done watching this ep and while the CGI guys where superb as usual and the plot did have some room for rodneys personal growth i dont think that the writters took full advantage of the screen time i will be interesed to see if this incident changed the character of rodney any at all.

and yes im a shep fan and a beckett fan I was pleased with sheps part but to my dismay beckett was not in it.


WHERE WAS BECKETT WHERE WAS BECKETT WHERE WAS BECKETT!!!!!!!!!!


:weir: :mckay: :sheppard: :beckett:

AGateFan
January 27th, 2006, 06:13 PM
OKIE DOKIE

just got done watching this ep and while the CGI guys where superb as usual and the plot did have some room for rodneys personal growth i dont think that the writters took full advantage of the screen time i will be interesed to see if this incident changed the character of rodney any at all.

and yes im a shep fan and a beckett fan I was pleased with sheps part but to my dismay beckett was not in it.


WHERE WAS BECKETT WHERE WAS BECKETT WHERE WAS BECKETT!!!!!!!!!!


:weir: :mckay: :sheppard: :beckett:
Where was Teyla and Ronan?
We were apparently missing lots of main characters.
Its a bad sign if they have to do that for each SG-1 crossover.
On the other hand, we got lots of good Zelenka.

CalmStorm
January 27th, 2006, 06:16 PM
First Impressions:

Someone on the staff knows way too much about tomatoes

That pilot only has one expression

"I have light" ....you go Rodney (LOL)

Zelenka is just an optimist at heart ...../sarcasm

"I always knew the pjs had it in for me" ....."Let's make a deal" ....of course it is funny McKay....laugh it up

Wow.....Zelenka dear, just give her the bullet

Woo Hoo .....it's SAM !!!!!!!!!!!!

hee hee...."you're essentially arguing with yourself" .....I can't fault him for that.....I'm guilty of that from time to time

Love Weir with the incredulous look at Zelenka initially unwilling to go on the pj.....go Weir!

Shep sure is excited to finally get to go underwater (I bet he has the Mission Impossible theme going through his head the whole time)

Favorite part.....Sam's reaction to the shut-up comment from McKay

Willow'sCat
January 27th, 2006, 06:20 PM
and yes im a shep fan Well at least you're up-front about it. ;)


WHERE WAS BECKETT WHERE WAS BECKETT WHERE WAS BECKETT!!!!!!!!!!I don't think there was a need for Beckett although maybe if they had of gone to the Infirmary when McKay got back. Oh well he is in a few eps to come, but it looks like no real 'Carson' episode this season. :(

Seshat
January 27th, 2006, 06:25 PM
Just popping in to say that I really enjoyed this ep. :) I don't follow Atlantis very closely, and yes, I tuned in to watch this one mainly because Sam was in it. :o But having said that, I thought it was about a zillion times better than the SG1 ep that preceded it, and there was, of course ZELENKA! whom I love. :D

FoolishPleasure
January 27th, 2006, 06:46 PM
I really liked this episode, probably because of McKay. David Hewlett did another excellent job. Zelenka - well, he steals scenes all the time. Wish he could be a reg as well.

Liked Sheppard in this episode. He's a cool character when babes aren't hanging all over him (hey Skiffy - I'll be skipping next week's "babe magnet" show - as you so advertised it. .sheesh).

No Ronon or Teyla. They must have been off on a nice, romantic weekend somewhere. ;)

Good story. Good acting. Good SFX. *thumbs up*

x_sid
January 27th, 2006, 07:42 PM
Wow Carter, and Weir were looking really hot in this episode. Too bad I'm only 24, and not in the pegasus galaxy:D

IMForeman
January 27th, 2006, 08:02 PM
The Barcelona McKay's... did he mean the city Barcelona or the Planet Barcelona? I hear they've got dogs there with no noses. Imagine how many times a day you end up telling that joke and it's still funny...

;)

-IMF
But it's a bit dodgy, this process... you never know what you're gonna end up with.

MasySyma
January 27th, 2006, 08:09 PM
Finally!!! An excellent Atlantis Season 2 episode!!!

The episode was wonderful. McKay's banter was funny, and Carter as an illusion worked well. I was worried that the episode would suffer from the same non-sensical plot of the Season 8 episode Grace, but the episode was controlled and paced well.

I liked that McKay has to learn to trust others and recognize his humanity and occasional frailty. Opening the jumper was like playing a game of trust with much higher stakes for him. I didn't like the original pilot much, so I wasn't terribly shook up with his death, but I did wonder about the other characters. Beckett should have been on the jumper or at least in another jumper on the surface to help treat anyone with injuries.

The Carter/McKay interaction was priceless, and I loved how the illusional Carter maintained much of the dignity of Carter's character while allowing McKay's subconscious a bit of creative license.

I wish that Zelenka would develop a bit more confidence about going off world, but he'll get there with time.

Overall, it was a fantastic episode. It looked great on paper and was better on screen. Yay!!!!

yowo
January 27th, 2006, 08:10 PM
:sam: :sam: :sam: :sam: :sam: :sam: :mckay:

Great show! Loved it! Cater was wonderful. McKay was hilarious!
They are so funny together.

FoolishPleasure
January 27th, 2006, 08:22 PM
I was worried that the episode would suffer from the same non-sensical plot of the Season 8 episode Grace, but the episode was controlled and paced well.
This was MUCH better than "Grace". We actually had a PLOT this time. ;)

AGateFan
January 27th, 2006, 08:29 PM
That looked really painful when Mckay slapped himself.

the fifth man
January 27th, 2006, 08:31 PM
Definitely a good Atlantis episode. McKay, great as ever. Man, I never would have thought his character could become so awesome after seeing his appearance in SG-1's "48 Hours". Glad I was proven wrong. As for Carter, can you say HOT? Carter in water, priceless.:D

Bobthespirit
January 27th, 2006, 08:41 PM
Kind of interesting that the word 'Grace' is in the title, because that's the episode this was a rehash of.

..Atlantis had a really good run in the second half of the first season, starting with The Storm and ending with the cross-season three parter.

But since then, it's just been kind of lame. As far as Stargate goes, it's been in the *center* of the box.

Just about every episode has essentially used a stock episode premise and gone through exactly the motions you'd expect, eventually coming to exactly the conclusion you'd expect. Watching Stargate Atlantis has become an experience akin to being spoon-fed creamed bananas. The earthen manifestation of 'safe'.

Introduce some new plot elements! Some wraithe that aren't just like all the other wraithe! Make the genai more of a threat, make some other hostile force threaten Atlantis. Bring some ideological tension between the characters. Take some risks! Stop copying Star Trek! Stop copying earlier Stargate episodes! Do something to hold my interest, the same The Eye did last year!

They've started to with Ronon and Ford, but they hardly focus on those characters, or Teyla's ideological differences with Shepherd and Weir. Do more of that, and Atlantis will be good again. It's got a plenty good cast. But terrible writing lately.

PG15
January 27th, 2006, 08:51 PM
First of all, TPTB knows that GUP is basically a rehash of Grace, that's why they named it that way. I know that probably doesn't make it better, but at least it shows you they know more than you think.

As to all those things you said you wanted...well, having had the chance to see (almost) all of season 2, I can say your wish is at least partially granted.

MoebiusStrip
January 27th, 2006, 08:53 PM
Very very nice episode...I liked it a lot. It ranks up there in my personal best. The whole McKay/Sam bit was very very nice. It was great homage to the SG-1 episode. Maybe we'll see 'Grace Under Fire'? ;)

My only knit pic was that the ending was a little hokey...they could came up with something little better than that...but still it got the job done.

Overall: 4.5/5

keshou
January 27th, 2006, 09:01 PM
yay! I liked this episode a lot. Can David Hewlett be any more perfect playing McKay? I don't think so. "Yes, of the Barcelona McKays" cracked me up.

Hallucination!Sam and McKay played off each other very well. I also liked the urgency of the crew at Atlantis trying to figure out things out and their ultimate solution was pretty cool. Both Shep and Zelenka had some good stuff.

I was so afraid they were going to forget all about the guy (Griffin, right?) who died - it was nice to see that more serious moment towards the end when McKay realized how much he owed him.

Oh and I loved the whale. The idea that the hallucination could somehow be connected to the whale is certainly interesting - I'd love to know if Martin Gero was thinking along those lines. :)

ETA: The worst part of the episode was seeing the previews for next week's show. Babe magnet??!!

derrickh
January 27th, 2006, 09:05 PM
Weak ep. It was basically a platform for David Hewlett to show he can act. But instead of showing deeper aspects of McKay, this ep just put a big red ribbon on why he's so unlikelable. DreamCarter summed it up perfectly, he's petty, arrogant, and bad with people. At the end of the ep, he didn't seem any different. Instead of blaming the pilot, he blamed Zelenka. Eventhough he panicked when the trouble started and wasn't much help to the pilot.

The plot was a rehash of a rehash and the show is barely into it's 2nd season. Atlantis needs to expand it's writer pool badly, because the people coming up with the shows have run out of ideas and are attempting poorly executed character studies. Grace was much better, and Grace wasn't really that good.

Great effects, though.

D

Linear
January 27th, 2006, 11:23 PM
Pretty good episode here. DH was good at acting as always ;)
Liked the Sam/McKay interaction but my biggest problem was
the episode ending. TPTB should have added five more minutes
just to show a little resolution.

But I think I can live with the way it is. :rolleyes:

SG1Atlantis
January 28th, 2006, 06:12 AM
Not a bad episode, but it could have been better.

Good Points:
David Hewlett's acting was great, as always.

The storyline was better than 'Grace' but still, not all that original. I'm hoping from wat spoilers i read the rest of season 2 will be better.

SFX were great

Bad Points:
Examination of McKay's character. I mean it's good to see some character development for him, but we've seen from other eps that hes not as petty as he thinks. I mean he saves day more times than i can count and he doesnt completely lack courage. Sure he's bad with people and hes arrogant but thats cuz, like he said, he doesnt trust any of the science team. He trusts Shep, Weir, Teyla, Carson and Ronan cuz they're his friends.

McKay/Sam stuff. I'm not totally against the interaction b/c some of it was funny but Mckay's whole Obsession w/Carter is a littel too much, it just makes his character more shallow than he really is.

No Beckett?!!!! They really need another Beckett ep like 'Poisoning the Well' I mean PM acted so good in that. They put PM as a series regular but he's been missing in like 3 eps already.

No Ronan or Teyla either? Ronan needs to be a bigger part of the show, he didnt have a big part in last week's ep either.

Overall not a bad ep, but might be cuz i'm a huge RM/DH fan. Though it definelty doesnt beat last weeks ep.
I give it a 3 out of 5.

MarshAngel
January 28th, 2006, 06:28 AM
Was anyone else bothered by Sheppard's line of reasoning?

They didn't turn the shield into the cloak by fiddling with a few controls and changing the settings and what not. They turned the shield into a cloak by unplugging the shield and physically installing a cloak generator from one of the puddlejumpers. Ergo, the plan that Sheppard was describing shouldn't have worked.

I couldn't put my finger on why I thought something was just too easy and convenient about their solution but I think you hit it on the head. Another plothole. Fortunately the show was entertaining enough for me to just roll my eyes and move on.

I enjoyed this episode more than I thought I would. I was pleasantly surprised that Zelenka got as much screen time as he did in the Shep & Mckay show.

And just to prove how much Surface has affected my brain, I wanted to see more of Nessie. That sea monster was so obedient. At least we have an answer to the question that has been asked since the beginning of the series.

What's in the ocean? Alien Whale-nessies.

They should be officially out of jumpers now. They've lost no less than three permanently.

MarshAngel
January 28th, 2006, 06:33 AM
McKay/Sam stuff. I'm not totally against the interaction b/c some of it was funny but Mckay's whole Obsession w/Carter is a littel too much, it just makes his character more shallow than he really is

I actually think this is normal. I don't think he's so much obsessed with her so much as she's the symbol for the perfect woman that he's trying to find in other people. She's hot, which he appreciates in a geeky immature way and she challenges his belief that he's better than everyone else in a way no one else has been able to. If he's able to find that same combination in another availablenwoman, I think we'll find that what he has for Sam is more hero worship than obsession or true love.

TechnoBoY
January 28th, 2006, 07:02 AM
Well this episode exceeded my expectations! I thought it would suck but I ended up liking it a lot! Just good character development and it was kinda funny, made me smile.

I didnt read many spoilers and what I thought would be the plotline wasnt it at all. I saw that big with Sam in the commercials. I thought maybe they were using Asgard hologram thing to let Sam help McKay. Hehe.

kymeric
January 28th, 2006, 07:12 AM
I like the ongoing NONcrossover crossovers. Rising, Home, Moebeus 1&2, Siege 1-3, Landry last ep and now Hallucination undie Sam. I kinda like it better as a build up than if a Jumper just popped through and SG1 came running out the back saying YO.

nccjones
January 28th, 2006, 07:15 AM
Wow! I haven't read any of the posts, but this is up there with last weeks episode. They are definately my two favorite epi's. I have to say that I've never cried so much over a Stargate show. I really understood Rodney and I liked that he knew to help him reason with what was going on was to manifest the one person who was equally on his level. It was beautifully done. Oh, and AT looked amazing in this episode!

Bad points to the show....absolutely none.

Good points...
- lots of drama.
- The moment Rodney realized he was aweful to Griffin and Griffin still sacrificed his life for Rodney was amazing. Total human drama at it's best.
- Rodney looking into himself and realizing his faults.
- Zelenka's fear of going down and Wier and Shepard convincing him to.
- The use of Carter to help Rodney. They are a good team with chemistry.
- No Ronan...yeah! Three weeks in a row proves that he does not belong on this show...it makes absolutely no sense. I do wish that Teyla had been on this episode though.

One of the best shows ever. Atlantis is by far outdoing SG1 at this point. I felt more angst and concern from Zelenka, Weir and Sheppard then I did from the SG team trying to rescue Teal'c. It bothers me that they separate Mitchell from the team constantly, but Atlantis knows how to do it with Grace. Both Epiphany and Grace Under Pressure show that a team member can be separated yet you still feel the team emotion.