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GateWorld
November 21st, 2005, 02:51 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/212.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/graphics/212.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">ATLANTIS SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/212.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none"><B>EPIPHANY</B></A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 212</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
Sheppard finds himself on a planet where time passes more rapidly, with no way to contact his team or return to Atlantis.

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s2/212.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

TOA
November 28th, 2005, 06:27 PM
Seeing as im working from home I figure Ill fill some gaps in for this episode.


Mini Summery:
The team (aka Shep, Mckay, Teyla & Ronan) are on a survey mission when Mckay notices a bizarre energy signature. They land the puddle and walk to the site of the energy and discover *gasp* a cave with Ancient writing next to the entrance.

They realize there is some type of shield in place and use a camera to check it out. When they pull it back the camera seems fine, so Shep volunteers to go through. *cue ominous music* As Shep stretches forth his arm he realizes he cant pull it back he's stuck.

He goes through the portal to an empty cave, and waits around for a few days but no one shows. They do send him some food though.

In the mean time Mckay has figured out whats going on and does the Mckay dance of distress. He goes back to Atlantis to get supplies.

Shep gets sick of waiting and starts wandering out into the forest and later into a field - where scary sounds of growling are heard... All of a sudden someone crys out for help... its a bird.. its a plane.... no its an Ancient... Shep saves the cringing fearful person but gets hurt in the meantime.

He wakes up later with a little girl standing over him, as he lies in bed. She has apparently healed him. Cue: Hot older sister. Hmmmmm havent seen this before.. The older sister explains that they arent Ancients **everyone yell: "AWWW SHUCKS!!!"** but we're somewhat akin to worshippers (my word not hers) and have been here attempting to ascend for their whole lives.

The people in the village are all that remains of the civilization that originally travelled here.

Mckay and the others attempt to entire the protected area from orbit but realize they would be instantly destroyed trying to get to the surface - only the doorway is safe.

In the meantime Shep and the older sister (did I mention she was Hot) get ummm close... Yeah thats it.. She also explains that she can farsee (ie see images of things beyond normal vision) and that she had sent her brother (the cringing coward from the field) to get shep.

The beast attacks the village again and all the villagers run and hide, but John stands and makes snide comments which prompts the older sister to stand with him.

John wakes up as younger sister heals him, but still doesnt remember how he got to bed. Again...

Meanwhile the gang - now acompanied by Weir & Beckett are going through the portal and figure they will deactivate the time device from the inside.

John and the villagers are later eating dinner/lunch/brunch whatever and john begins trying to tell them that they arent living just hiding and that that is why they arent ascending. (its really really obvious to everyone except the clueless villagers) And that they must fight the beast that has been attacking them.

As they travel through the field they are once again attacked. Luckily the hot sister tells John they are about to be attacked. John jumps up and runs the ... several miles to their rescue.

Meanwhile Ronon and Teyla are taking the beats, the beast is kicking some serious pegasus ass. John arrives in the nick of time and somehow dispatches the beast. But then...

The beast reappears - but he's like 500 ft tall.

The atlantis team readies themselves to face this new foe.... but then......

The fearful villagers appear and announce they must fight the beast. So they all stand in a circle and the beast disappears (no im not kidding).

The villagers then begin to ascend but the hot sister stays and asks John to join them - john says no. So she ascends...

The End..

Overall I really didnt think this was one of the better episodes so far - I was really looking forward to actually seeing them TALK to an ancient but.. *sigh*

Theres always "The Tower" and "The long goodbye"...

mcalex22
November 28th, 2005, 09:54 PM
Seeing as im working from home I figure Ill fill some gaps in for this episode.
...

Theres always "The Tower" and "The long goodbye"...

Love your summary - it's really funny but unfortunately doesn't inspire me to watch Epiphany... damn, I was hoping it would be better than Hive!

I won't be watching it for a while but being the big Atlantis fan that I am I suppose I will be catching it soon!

Hmm, hot sister and Shep, and Weir makes a trip offworld? Cool.

Thanks!:)

SmallTimePerson
November 28th, 2005, 10:59 PM
it sounds like a good episode thanks for the summary TOA!

Franklyn Blaze
November 28th, 2005, 11:10 PM
What a ripoff on the beast, they copied and pasted the Predator right into that episode. Tisk tisk.

Aside for that it was okay for a one off, shallow plot development for 6 months of being with the pre-ascended people. I would have expected more from a "stranded with village people episode" or a "time differential episode". Those eps have already been made in other series and here they just mooshed them together. (no offence anyone but its hard not to compare)

There is something about having a oneoff when there is a main story arc going on that is just doesn't seem to work for me. I don't know if its just me but when the episode doesn't add to the main arc (that I really like btw) it reminds me of someone who digresses a lot and I find myself wanting them to get back on topic. ( Again no offence to ppl who like one offs mixed in)

Dorka
November 28th, 2005, 11:26 PM
Thanks for the summary...makes waiting till today evening better :D

I think I'll like every episode Elizabeth is going off-world, so I think I'll like it this time too :D

Awww..John and the other girl get close... awww...no Kirk-style please!

macktheknife
November 28th, 2005, 11:45 PM
Rips off:

The Matrx : OMFG SHEP YOU ARE "THE ONE" AND I"M IN LOVE WITH YOU!
Predator : Invisible Evil Creature
Star Trek : Similar to the episode where Miles (or The Doctor?) got stuck into a "mind prison" for years and years, but without the prison, and with ascended people.

And probably a host of others.

That's not to say it was a bad episode, just not great. A resonably solid, zero story arc, minimal character development (even after a few months, he seemed back to normal once found), and something which is already becoming cliche with the kirk shep. It's a stand alone episode of the highest throw away value, just enough "danger" to make the episode work, but pretty much nothing will be mentioned of this again.

Jarnin
November 29th, 2005, 12:18 AM
Sounds like a direct rip-off of the movie Sphere (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120184/).

In the movie, they discover an "alien" ship at the bottom of the ocean, mostly buried by coral (the coral growth indicates that it's been there at least 300 years).
As the team of heros enters the ship, they discover that the ship isn't alien at all, it's an Earth ship from the future that traveled through a black hole, which for some reason slung it back in time. They also discover a giant "sphere" in the ships cargo hold, and nobody knows what it is.

Eventually, one by one, the heroes somehow enter the sphere, but they don't remember going in. Afterwards, alot of weird things happen; all the secondary characters end up dead, all by strange underwater creatures; giant squid, jellyfish, seasnakes, etc.

As it turns out, when the heroes entered the sphere, they gained the power to make their thoughts real; one of the crew was afraid of the book 20,000 leagues under the sea, so a giant squid shows up. Another crewmember was afraid of seasnakes, so the seasnakes appeared. They were making everything happen, all without realizing it, yet they were all genius-level scholars and scientists.
Eventually figure it out, and they come to the conclusion that the power to make your dreams come true is way too powerful for stupid humans, so they hold hands, sing kumbaya, and wish the sphere, their powers, and their memories of the sphere away, so it's like it never happened.


Seems like Epiphany is basically the same thing; the villagers realize that they're the ones that are making the beast real, so when they figure that out, the beast disappears.

Rip. Off.

caty
November 29th, 2005, 12:44 AM
I haven't watched it yet (I am about to in 30 minutes :D ), but I don't know if you all know that Joe Flanigan wrote the episode.
Since we know that he wasn't big on SciFi before Atlantis, I doubt that he copied what he wrote in any way, much less ripped it off..

We'll always find similarities with other shows/movies, it is just hard to find stories that haven't been done in some way before... So don't be so hard on him...

AutumnDream
November 29th, 2005, 12:55 AM
It wasn't even three minutes in until Sheppard cracked me up.

"MALP on a stick."

Awesome. :D

Jarnin
November 29th, 2005, 01:02 AM
I haven't watched it yet (I am about to in 30 minutes :D ), but I don't know if you all know that Joe Flanigan wrote the episode.
Since we know that he wasn't big on SciFi before Atlantis, I doubt that he copied what he wrote in any way, much less ripped it off..

We'll always find similarities with other shows/movies, it is just hard to find stories that haven't been done in some way before... So don't be so hard on him...
He basically pitched an idea. From what he said in the interview with him regarding this episode, Brad and company changed alot of what he pitched because it had been done on SG-1.

Buzz Lightyear
November 29th, 2005, 01:40 AM
He basically pitched an idea. From what he said in the interview with him regarding this episode, Brad and company changed alot of what he pitched because it had been done on SG-1.

This episode still reminded me too much of season 3 SG-1's "A Hundred Days" in which O'Neill was stranded on a planet with no hope of rescue and fell in love with a woman in a village.

http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s3/317.shtml

AutumnDream
November 29th, 2005, 01:42 AM
Including when O'Neill was stuck on that planet for months and the girl fell in love with him?

EDIT: Eek. I was posting as you posted. Sorry. :p

Jarnin
November 29th, 2005, 01:53 AM
This episode still reminded me too much of season 3 SG-1's "A Hundred Days" in which O'Neill was stranded on a planet with no hope of rescue and fell in love with a woman in a village.

http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s3/317.shtml
Yep, just got done watching it, and it reminded me of that episode alot.

Overall, the story was "meh".

I liked:

1. The humor: It was actually a pretty funny episode.
2. Weir on an away mission was cool.
3. Teyla being smart enough to surprise Rodney was cool.

I didn't like:

1. The special effects: I'm continually impressed by how little the VFX guys know about physics.
2. The look of the beast: Actually, I guess it was ok. I suppose it if was just a collective thought by the people in the village, then it wouldn't have a defined look.
3. The psychic chic was way off. She could "see" Sheppard since she was a small girl, but she couldn't see that the beast was just a collective thought? Silly.
4. I'm getting tired of seeing actors reused. They must only have a handful of actors in Vancouver, because the guy who played Avrid in this episode also played Hanno in the episode Cor-Ai.


Overall, this episode gets 2 out of 5 stars IMO.

Domesticated Equine
November 29th, 2005, 02:06 AM
I think it was better than the last episode and I actually enjoyed watching it. Still, it was very much a stand-alone episode with minimal character and plot development. This also felt way too much like A Hundred Days, Part 2 with not enough of a twist to justify using this plot again.

Kudos to David Hewlett and the writers for keeping the character of McKay interesting to watch. He's my favourite character on the two shows at the moment and a big reason why I keep watching Atlantis.

Edit: One other thing that bothered me was the native woman who had an interest in Sheppard (don't remember the character's name). I didn't like the actress and thought her delivery was too flat which made suspension of disbelief quite difficult.

xfkirsten
November 29th, 2005, 02:11 AM
Hmm... I kind of liked this one, but that's coming from a Weir fan. Not a perfect ep, by any stretch of the imagination, but I enjoyed it.

-The Sheppard "Kirk" routine got old, but I'll give him credit for not ever really giving up on going home. It was always clear that while there was a mild attraction between the two of them, all he really wanted was to go home
-Second, I think John definitely has some big abandonment issues, and I got the impression that there's a deeper reason for that somewhere in his past
-It felt like the oher characters just didn't grasp the concept of why they had to hurry. I mean, to me, it's not exactly rocket science to figure that out. Weir and Beckett are very intelligent - why did Rodney have to spell out for them the fact that John could die of old age so soon?
-"I have a date tomorrow night with Lt. Cadman!" "Oh, no, so we've only got twelve years in here!!" :D *hugs Rodney* Love that line!
-I definitely loved seeing Elizabeth getting to join the action! I wish she got to do that more often.
-The whole Beast defeat was really anti-climactic. I understand that their storyline had to be wrapped up... but it was just so boring to solve the Beast problem that way
-"What is it with you and ascended women?" Once again, Rodney tells it like it is! :D
-I loved the whole beard exchange between Weir and Sheppard at the end!

caty
November 29th, 2005, 02:25 AM
I am very disappointed with this episode!

The worst thing of all is that they cheated us out of the stuff dealing with Shep's past. IMO, it was actually quite smart to let us hang for awhile not knowing where the main character comes from or what he experienced, resulting in the way he is now.

But honestly, now it's just downright annoying. Just from the pilot and LFP, we know more about ALL the main characters including recurring ones like Bates than we do about the leading character.

Anyway, I thought the episode was boring, the beast wasn't scary at all and I think they could have done a better job showing what life was like for John.

What I liked was that Sheppard stood up to the beast every time he was confronted with it and that he did get annoyed at the townspeople for abandoning him.
He showed off his acting ability once again in acouple of scenes (and again, only with his eyes or expressions) like the meditating scene and some other ones where you could really see how much he misses Atlantis and the team.

I also think it's funny that Ronon seems to be very protective about Sheppard when he's not there. I think he really likes and respects him more than he lets on.

Overall, the plot was disappointing, but the epi had some great scenes.

Chrysalis
November 29th, 2005, 02:31 AM
I loved the whole beard exchange between Weir and Sheppard at the end!


What beard exchange?? Elaborate!!

gooner_diva
November 29th, 2005, 03:37 AM
What beard exchange?? Elaborate!!
Weir: Well, the beard is... interesting.
Sheppard: The first thing to go when we get home.

:D

IWantToBelieve
November 29th, 2005, 03:45 AM
After how dissappointed I was in Hive, this episode made up for it. It was very insightful into Sheppard's character but you had to really watch and pick up on it, nothing was spelled out.

Pros: The way the writers portrayed the two different time zones. It was easy to feel how fast time was going for Shep while how slow it was going for the others. JF again delivers an amazing nuanced performance. He isn't an actor you can look away from, or you'll miss everything. The way his eyes move, his body langauge, the looks...it all comes together to deliver so much more than just his lines. Teyla continues to grow into her position and show why she's there. She's an asset to the team and her and Ronon play well off of Sheppard and McKay. There weren't any gaping plot holes this time. Beckett and Weir were wonderful for the time they had on screen. I really do love all the actors and characters on this show!

Cons: Okay, let's admit it, the plot is rehashed. It needed just that little bit more oomph to make it original enough to be reused. But, it wasn't so cliched that it was unenjoyable, so not a huge knock against it. The nice character insight, like someone else said, shows that Sheppard does have abadonment issues. If you missed it, watch it again, because it was a very poignant side of this episode. It alone makes up for the con of using an old plot mechanism like this. The beast's FX were kind of lame. They could've done a better beast. The ending was anticlimatic, but it does make sense. The beast didn't kill Sheppard both times and he said twice "I don't remember winning". The fact is, he didn't, and he couldn't. The defeat wasn't physical, and while it makes for anticlimatic screen time, it's a deeper answer to the problem at hand. The beast was their final hurdle, to face their fears, and that's why they were able to defeat it in the end and save Sheppard and the gang. Could've been written a little better to have not fallen so flat, but overall it doesn't ruin the episode.

The first half had a lot of intensity, the second half started to drift. Overall though, I'd give it 3.5 out of 5, because of the character development and great lines. MALP on a stick, that's got to become a classic.

And it is way overdue to find out more backstory on the main character for the show!

macktheknife
November 29th, 2005, 03:59 AM
Conan And Xena!!!

Best.line.ever

MartoufMarty
November 29th, 2005, 04:00 AM
Can I just first point out how much I hate Movie Central for the inconvient time slots? C'mon, 11pm Monday night, and 5am Tuesday morning? Jeez. I got up at 5am to watch it!

The episode was pretty good. Humor good 'Conan and Xena' :P

I didn't like the ascending people. I found them to be a bit annoying. It's got that guy who was in Cor-ai and Demons. He just keeps showing up! And isn't that kid that annoying kid on Invasion? Ugh.

I didn't really like the woman who was hitting on Sheppard. Of course, they had to kiss. Bah.

Liked Rodney's comment though: "What is it with you and ascending women?"

But, I do have a cotinuity question though... How/when did Ronon get his sword back? He didn't have it with him at the end of The Hive. He had in in Lost Boys though. It was still on the ship when it blew up. Does he have a spare? He only had one with him in Runner :P

I felt a little cheated with 'the Beast'. Damn ascending people mind tricks!

Loved the 'MALP on a stick'. And 'Conan and Xena.' Ha.

Also, I thought John looked kind of hot with the beard. So there... :P

Now since I would usually only be getting up right now, I'm going to go see if I can watch an episode of Nip/Tuck before I go to school :P

Oh, what makes me sad is my mom saying to me that the show is getting boring... It's not getting boring, is it? I don't think it is... :S

Agent_Dark
November 29th, 2005, 04:01 AM
Overall the episode was a bit flat. Wasn't bad, but not as good as some of the other episodes this season.

Some random thoughts about the episode:

It was interesting at the start of the episode to see McKay getting angry at Ronan when he was attempting to try and find out how to get Sheppard back (before he went back to the City). The body language from Ronan himself suggests that he doesn't actually get on too well with McKay at all. In fact it really did look like Ronan wanted to smack McKay in the face. Could lead to some interesting dynamics later on, with someone actually really disliking McKay (as opposed to the "Well he's annoying, but he's actually pretty good at what he does so that makes him ok" kinda attitude that alot of people have towards him)


The scene where Sheppard and girl kiss, my reaction was 'Shepwh0re powers - activate' ;)
In fact a totally random thought, but could you imagine the devastation that would be brought upon the eligible bachelor and bachelorettes in the universe if Sheppard and Carter teamed up? I could imagine them after a hard week of 'saving' their respective galaxies relaxing in the bar...

Carter: So how many you get this week?
Shep: Two Ascended, one princess and a cheiftan's daughter.
Carter: Nice!
Shep: How about you?
Carter: Only one Ascended, but 2 from advanced societies and an ambassador.
Shep: Ah, good work. <raises glass> To saving the galaxy!
Carter: <clinks her own glass against his> To saving the galaxy!

:D

Ahem, anyway...

This ep was pretty much a stand alone one, so no earth shattering revelations about anything. Not even any real character development.
One small thing though. The Ancients built the whole time dilation field thing so that humans (perhaps even themselves) could spend their lifetime devoted to following the path to Ascension without having to worry about the Wraith coming to eat them while they were trying to do it. Which seems a bit odd when you think about it - toes the line on the whole 'No interfering with a lesser beings natural ascension path' thing. And if the Ancients themselves used to help them ascend without the Wraith interfering, it seems like a bit of a cheap trick ;)

Oh well, thats enough disjointed rambling from me :)

macktheknife
November 29th, 2005, 04:08 AM
I was under the impression that the ancients built it themselves, so people who wanted to ascened could do so without wraith attack.

BTW, if they've been there for 10k years, how many years would that be "our time". Did anyone get the proper "conversion" and could do the maths?

I assume they had a regular family structure (well.. born, grow, have children, ascend)?

Agent_Dark
November 29th, 2005, 04:18 AM
I was under the impression that the ancients built it themselves, so people who wanted to ascened could do so without wraith attack.
Yeah, thats what I thought too. But still, the non-interference thing goes both ways - even though it was a benevolant act to give those humans a safe place to ascend from the Wraith, it's still intefering with what would otherwise be those humans normal ascension path.

MartoufMarty
November 29th, 2005, 04:21 AM
Teyla said it was '250:1'

... Maybe this is wrong, but I got it as being 2,500,000 years... :S

IWantToBelieve
November 29th, 2005, 04:27 AM
I think the 250 to 1 is 250 minutes to 1 minute, since she only dipped that camera in for about a minute and definitely not an hour, and more than a second, I'd go with that one.

MartoufMarty
November 29th, 2005, 04:30 AM
I think the 250 to 1 is 250 minutes to 1 minute, since she only dipped that camera in for about a minute and definitely not an hour, and more than a second, I'd go with that one.
She dipped the camera in for 3 seconds and got 12 minutes of footage.

So that would be 3:720 which would actually only be 1:240 :P

Thus, it should be about 2,400,000 years... But that's probably still wrong. Ha.

gooner_diva
November 29th, 2005, 04:30 AM
Teyla said it was '250:1'

... Maybe this is wrong, but I got it as being 2,500,000 years... :S
If 250 years in the Cloister are 1 year outside, then 10,000 years there are 40 outside, no?

Cynicat
November 29th, 2005, 04:41 AM
Not a bad episode, really... but a little disappointing in that it had the opportunity to be great, and didn't take it. More character development - backstory gorramit! *shakes fist*

It feels like a lot was cut out of this episode - both big stuff, like actually finding out about Sheppard's past; and small stuff, like the fact that, as Carson says "part of his body [is] experiencing time at a different pace to the rest of him" (Shep makes a show of his hands bothering him in the cave, but otherwise it's just forgotten about). *crosses fingers in hopes of deleted scenes on the DVDs*

McKay just keeps getting better and better: his assorted snarking at Ronon and Teyla (or "Conan and Xena" *snicker*) was great fun, but he also seems to be growing as a person - his admissions that it was his mistake that got Shep stuck there in the first place, that he can't fly a 'jumper in a straight line, and that the sensor probe was actually Zelenka's idea show a growing willingness to accept his own imperfections. Again, DH totally rocks :D

Beyond that:
- Great performances all 'round, as usual.
- "MALP on a Stick", LMFAO (bonus, gaffer tape to the rescue! w00t!)
- Carson has a date with Cadman - awww! A nice little bit of continuity there, too.
- Shep's got some definate abandonment issues, poor diddums *hugs him*
- A nice bit of character development for Ronan and Teyla (Ronon is protective of Sheppard, and Teyla is good at math & logical in a crisis). Ronon is fast becoming more than the stereotypical "Big Warrior Guy", which is very nice to see.
- Good to see Weir offworld again, the girl needs to get out more.
- All I could think for half the episode was "Shep is wearing Ugg boots." I kept expecting him to reappear at the hut with a carton of milk, a loaf of bread and a copy of the Sunday Telegraph. *chants mantra "Shep is not a Westie, Shep is not a Westie, Shep is not a Westie..."*


But, I do have a cotinuity question though... How/when did Ronon get his sword back? He didn't have it with him at the end of The Hive. He had in in Lost Boys though. It was still on the ship when it blew up. Does he have a spare? He only had one with him in Runner

Have to check screencaps to be sure, but I think it might be a different sword, since this one's missing the (*cough*rather girly*cough*) wraith-hair tassel, and seems to have... well... yellow gaffer tape... wrapped around the hilt. It's a damn nifty looking sword, nonetheless. If it is different, it begs the question, where did he get it? S-Mart? Armourers of Atlantis (purveyors of fine pointy things for over 10,000yrs)?

MartoufMarty
November 29th, 2005, 04:44 AM
If 250 years in the Cloister are 1 year outside, then 10,000 years there are 40 outside, no?
10,000 years have passed outside, remember?

So, it should be like, 2,400,000 years inside or something close to that... Teyla said the ratio was 250:1, but if it really was 3 seconds = 12 minutes it would be 240:1

So it should be somewhere between 2,400,000 years and 2,500,000 years... But who's counting? :P

lily
November 29th, 2005, 04:44 AM
First of all, I loved this episode. Lots of Sheppard and great moments :D

The only weak point I see is the beast, but it's nothing that prevents me from enjoying the episode. I still give it 5 stars out of 5 in my book. OK, maybe I give it 4.7 stars instead of 5 because of the beast.

I haven't seen any of the episodes/movies others are saying. I'm not a sci fi fan at all, the only sci fi stuff I watch are both Stargate SG-1 and Atlantis. So it's all fresh for me and I loved it.

Yes, I would've loved to know more about Sheppard's past. I don't know if it was something that at some point was in the script and then got written off, or if it was something that was filmed and then cut out in the editing process.

I recognized the guy from Cor-ai and Demons. I didn't mind this at all. He played different characters in them, only a couple of episodes in 9 years, so I didn't mind them using the same actor for another role. I wouldn't like an actor who plays a recurring character in SG-1(such as Gary Jones, for example) playing another character in SGA. But having actors who played different roles in a couple of episodes it's OK.

Someone mentioned "A hundred days". That's one of my top fave SG-1 episodes. It has it's similarities, regarding being stranded off-world without any chance of getting back to your people. Maybe that's why I love so much "A hundred days" and now "Epiphany".

Yes, it was a stand-alone episode, and I don't mind this at all. I think I read spoilers that said so, so I was actually expecting a stand-alone episode. I don't mind. It's not a bad word for me :) Some of my top fave episodes in SG-1 are stand-alone ones (like "Legacy", "Lifeboat", "A hundred days", etc). I also liked SG-1's "Icon" a LOT (that epi seems to be a love/hate thing. Some fans love it, some fans hate it. It's not in my top list, but I sure liked it a lot). I love story-arc episodes and I love stand-alone ones. My top fave epis are always a mix of them.

I loved all the SGA regulars in this episode. And I loved lots of lines. Like "MALP on the stick". LOL. And when all the people at the village left Sheppard alone to fight the beast, and then the woman comes to stay with him, and Shep said "Now there're two of us". The way he delivered that line made it funny.


So once again, I watched an episode, and said " what a great episode", and came back here and found lots of people didn't like it very much. Oh, well. I loved it and I'm not apologizing for it :p

Agent_Dark
November 29th, 2005, 04:46 AM
Teyla said it was '250:1'

... Maybe this is wrong, but I got it as being 2,500,000 years... :S
Yeah, thats wrong :P

Teyla recorded 3 seconds of footage (real time), but it turned about to be 12 minutes on the other side of the portal. That's 720 seconds. 720/3 is 240 (close enough to 250), so for every second that passed in real time, 240 seconds passed on in the dilation field. Teyla approximated that to a ratio of 250:1

So:

1 second = 4 minutes
1 minute = 4 hours
1 hour = 10 days

But, if I'm doing my math right that doesn't make sense at all. When Shep meets up with Weir and the gang, Weir says he's only been gone for a couple of hours to which Shep says 6 months. But a couple of hours should only be about 1 month max... For Shep to have gone 6 months, it would have been around 18 or so hours for the rest of the crew outside the field... Something doesn't add up there.

MartoufMarty
November 29th, 2005, 04:48 AM
McKay just keeps getting better and better: his assorted snarking at Ronon and Teyla (or "Conan and Xena" *snicker*) was great fun, but he also seems to be growing as a person - his admissions that it was his mistake that got Shep stuck there in the first place, that he can't fly a 'jumper in a straight line, and that the sensor probe was actually Zelenka's idea show a growing willingness to accept his own imperfections. Again, DH totally rocks :D
He does rock! :P

It seems that ever since Trinity he's be more willing to admit that he can't do everything.


Have to check screencaps to be sure, but I think it might be a different sword, since this one's missing the (*cough*rather girly*cough*) wraith-hair tassel, and seems to have... well... yellow gaffer tape... wrapped around the hilt. It's a damn nifty looking sword, nonetheless. If it is different, it begs the question, where did he get it? S-Mart? Armourers of Atlantis (purveyors of fine pointy things for over 10,000yrs)?
To me, the sword looks the same... I never actually really noticed hair on the sword :o

MartoufMarty
November 29th, 2005, 04:49 AM
Yeah, thats wrong :P
That's why I never said I was right! It's almost 8am, I've been up since 5am, and I'm using the calculator on the computer and not thinking it through. And I was going on the whole '365 days, 24 hours' bit.


Teyla recorded 3 seconds of footage (real time), but it turned about to be 12 minutes on the other side of the portal. That's 720 seconds. 720/3 is 240 (close enough to 250), so for every second that passed in real time, 240 seconds passed on in the dilation field. Teyla approximated that to a ratio of 250:1

So:

1 second = 4 minutes
1 minute = 4 hours
1 hour = 10 days

But, if I'm doing my math right that doesn't make sense at all. When Shep meets up with Weir and the gang, Weir says he's only been gone for a couple of hours to which Shep says 6 months. But a couple of hours should only be about 1 month max... For Shep to have gone 6 months, it would have been around 18 or so hours for the rest of the crew outside the field... Something doesn't add up there.
Maybe Teyla's the one that's bad at math, not us :P

The planets rotation could be weird... But that still doesn't explain... *blames Teyla*

Agent_Dark
November 29th, 2005, 04:52 AM
That's why I never said I was right! It's almost 8am, I've been up since 5am, and I'm using the calculator on the computer and not thinking it through :P

:P



Maybe Teyla's the one that's bad at math, not us :P
No, her math is right... I think the writers goofed on the 6 months equalling a couple of hours though. Unless Shep totally lost track of time while in there and thought he'd been in there 6 months when it was more like 1 month

gooner_diva
November 29th, 2005, 04:55 AM
But who's counting? :P
We're all counting it seems. :p

BTW, if they've been there for 10k years, how many years would that be "our time".
I thought this question was asking how many years passed outside for every 10,000 inside. My wrong, nevermind. :)

No, her math is right... I think the writers goofed on the 6 months equalling a couple of hours though. Unless Shep totally lost track of time while in there and thought he'd been in there 6 months when it was more like 1 month
Or it wasn't really a couple of hours. It seemed like several hours to me.

MartoufMarty
November 29th, 2005, 04:58 AM
No, her math is right... I think the writers goofed on the 6 months equalling a couple of hours though. Unless Shep totally lost track of time while in there and thought he'd been in there 6 months when it was more like 1 month
You know what? I should just quit while I'm ahead. I was doing something and ended up with 27 months or years... I do not know...

I'm going to school now to learn :P

Agent_Dark
November 29th, 2005, 05:05 AM
You know what? I should just quit while I'm ahead. I was doing something and ended up with 27 months or years... I dunno...

I'm going to school now to learn :P
You learn stuff at school these days? :eek:

Anyway, even though I'm pretty sure the writers goofed (unless someone can tell me my math is wrong), I'm gonna go with the explanation that Sheppard lost track of time in there. So even though he said 6 months at the end, he'd actually only been there for 1 month.

gooner_diva
November 29th, 2005, 05:14 AM
You learn stuff at school these days? :eek:

Anyway, even though I'm pretty sure the writers goofed (unless someone can tell me my math is wrong), I'm gonna go with the explanation that Sheppard lost track of time in there. So even though he said 6 months at the end, he'd actually only been there for 1 month.
Can't blame him, the place did look pretty boring for a guy like him who isn't really keen on contemplating his enlightenment all day. :p

lily
November 29th, 2005, 05:35 AM
Not a bad episode, really... but a little disappointing in that it had the opportunity to be great, and didn't take it. More character development - backstory gorramit! *shakes fist*

Well, I agree regarding the backstory. I want to know more about all the regulars' past, especially Sheppard's.


It feels like a lot was cut out of this episode - both big stuff, like actually finding out about Sheppard's past; and small stuff, like the fact that, as Carson says "part of his body [is] experiencing time at a different pace to the rest of him" (Shep makes a show of his hands bothering him in the cave, but otherwise it's just forgotten about). *crosses fingers in hopes of deleted scenes on the DVDs*
Yes on all counts (Shep's past, hands and deleted scenes). I think that in order to show all that, they would've needed a 2 parter. Too much stuff for just a single episode. I don't think there's anything in the episode as it is that it could've been traded for scenes about Shep's past or his body reaction. The only way I see it, it could've been in a two parter.


McKay just keeps getting better and better: his assorted snarking at Ronon and Teyla (or "Conan and Xena" *snicker*) was great fun, but he also seems to be growing as a person - his admissions that it was his mistake that got Shep stuck there in the first place, that he can't fly a 'jumper in a straight line, and that the sensor probe was actually Zelenka's idea show a growing willingness to accept his own imperfections. Again, DH totally rocks :D

Agree 100%



Beyond that:
- Great performances all 'round, as usual.
- "MALP on a Stick", LMFAO (bonus, gaffer tape to the rescue! w00t!)
- Carson has a date with Cadman - awww! A nice little bit of continuity there, too.
- Shep's got some definate abandonment issues, poor diddums *hugs him*
- A nice bit of character development for Ronan and Teyla (Ronon is protective of Sheppard, and Teyla is good at math & logical in a crisis). Ronon is fast becoming more than the stereotypical "Big Warrior Guy", which is very nice to see.

Agree with everything. Aaahhhhhh. The tape. I couldn't help but thinking of MacGyver. LOL

smushybird
November 29th, 2005, 06:25 AM
Seeing as im working from home I figure Ill fill some gaps in for this episode.

Thanks for the summary. It was funny.:)
Were there any reunion oh-yay-Shep-is-safe hugs?

caty
November 29th, 2005, 07:06 AM
Thanks for the summary. It was funny.:)
Were there any reunion oh-yay-Shep-is-safe hugs?

No, actually, it was more like:

Shep: What the hell took you so long? (And he did sound mad).
Weir: Believe it or not, We've only been gone for a couple hours.
Shep: Try six months!

So, no cheesy welcoming scene, but Shep did say he "even missed you guys a little"...

I am still disappointed after having watched it a second time..:S

MartoufMarty
November 29th, 2005, 07:14 AM
You learn stuff at school these days? :eek:
There was a rumor going around the other day. I guess I heard wrong because here I am again at Gateworld, Fanforum, and Livejournal. Ha. Yay for double spare :D


Anyway, even though I'm pretty sure the writers goofed (unless someone can tell me my math is wrong), I'm gonna go with the explanation that Sheppard lost track of time in there. So even though he said 6 months at the end, he'd actually only been there for 1 month.
Yeah, he's probably just exaggerating. He was probably so bored that he thought he was six months instead of one month.

They didn't give Rodney enough time to correct him! :P

MartoufMarty
November 29th, 2005, 07:21 AM
Thanks for the summary. It was funny.:)
Were there any reunion oh-yay-Shep-is-safe hugs?
From their point of view, he was only gone for a couple hours. He was sounding so angry through-out the whole episode. He's all into the 'don't leave anyone behind' and poor guy thought they abandoned him :(


I am still disappointed after having watched it a second time..:S
The episode wasn't the greatest, but it wasn't that bad. It kind of has the same A Hundred Days feeling to me, but with more humor from the rescue side.

I'd rate the episode as being somewhere between... The Brotherhood (pretty good), Childhood's End (okay), and Sanctuary (didn't like).

I am a little disappointed with the lack of character development, and character background.

They so better go into the Beckett thing from The Hive. I'll be very disappointed if they don't, and if the whole implication was just a lead on :(

FireCat
November 29th, 2005, 07:45 AM
Wasn't this the episode that was supposed to give us information on Sheppard? Did I blink and miss a scene?

"Mary Sue" stories don't work for me. Weakest episode of the season so far.

Next time one of the actors wants to write, forget it, with the exception of Chris Judge.

gambit
November 29th, 2005, 08:08 AM
Next time one of the actors wants to write, forget it, with the exception of Chris Judge.

To be fair, JF only wrote the idea, but the staff writers wrote took what he wrote, ripped it apart and wrote the screenplay.

TOA
November 29th, 2005, 09:34 AM
From their point of view, he was only gone for a couple hours. He was sounding so angry through-out the whole episode. He's all into the 'don't leave anyone behind' and poor guy thought they abandoned him :(


The episode wasn't the greatest, but it wasn't that bad. It kind of has the same A Hundred Days feeling to me, but with more humor from the rescue side.

I'd rate the episode as being somewhere between... The Brotherhood (pretty good), Childhood's End (okay), and Sanctuary (didn't like).

I am a little disappointed with the lack of character development, and character background.

They so better go into the Beckett thing from The Hive. I'll be very disappointed if they don't, and if the whole implication was just a lead on :(


Your right Shep was angry throughout the whole episode. So much so he was being a bit of an a-- to hot sister and the others.

It was especially clear even at the end when he was all brushing off the sisters offering to join them. (ascend)

caty
November 29th, 2005, 09:44 AM
Your right Shep was angry throughout the whole episode. So much so he was being a bit of an a-- to hot sister and the others.

It was especially clear even at the end when he was all brushing off the sisters offering to join them. (ascend)

Honestly, I thought he reacted very calm, considering the fact that he had been left alone by them. I mean, they let him stand against the beast all alone and he just wanted to help them.
And the explanation at the end was more than thin. She acted like they knew all along that the beast was of their own creation and funny, it didn't hurt her at all, only Sheppard. It's like they purposely let that thing hurt him just because they were to afraid to face their own fears. Now how selfish is that?

I would be pissed!

AutumnDream
November 29th, 2005, 09:52 AM
I think the continuity and relentless onslaught of new and cool information in Season 1 has spoiled me. I kind of expected some sort of really interesting culture or civilization in there. Something really mysterious and cool. I expected the "demi-ancients" to be a lot more advanced, way different than just the same old simple farm village people we've seen in, what... ten billion episodes of Stargate? They're smart, like ancients, they have cool mental abilities... and in 2,500,000 years or whatever it was, they couldn't build a more advanced society than that? Didn't the real ancients populate two or more entire galaxies in less than that time?

I didn't think the beast was necessary. There could have been a really eloquent and dark representation of their embodied negativity. It could have been done in a really original and far more suitable way.

Sheppard could have gone through more. I think he could have if half the episode wasn't spent before he went to the village. It would have worked much better if someone from the society of ancients came to meet him at the portal when he came through, told him he couldn't go back, and had him come back to their city. (At least, it would have been cooler if it was a city.) Then he wouldn't have lingered in there, using up all the valuable episode time. I was hoping there'd be some revelation about Sheppard late in the episode, explaining his obviously intimate connection to all things and people ancient.

Actually, I was hoping for any revelation at all. There was supposed to be something to do with getting ZPMs. Sure, there was mention of "McKay Grand Theft ZPM" (Tm), but I also expected something more than that about the glowy little things.

It sounds like I hated it, but I could never really dislike an Atlantis episode. I was entertained by it, and love watching the character every week so much that the obvious plot shortcomings don't really damage my image of the show. I know everything is in there somewhere... just not in this one.

Oh yeah! Anyone notice Teyla's intonation is changing? That's really cool. It's like if you're Canadian and you spend enough time living in Britain, you'll eventually start getting hints of that accent in your words. I'm pretty sure Teyla voice is becoming closer to ours.

Now, I wonder when she'll start using contractions! :D

Yeade
November 29th, 2005, 11:58 AM
I haven't gotten around to watching the ep yet (and I'm sure to have more detailed thoughts then), but from everyone's comments it sounds like "Epiphany" has the same sort of character moments vs. plot issues that "The Hive" does. Which is to say, massive squee over our lovable heroes being their lovable selves and blinding migraines when trying to logic out what the hell actually happened and the supporting characters.

So. Is there anything specific on Sheppard's backstory? Or is it all just more fuel to the fire? I'm getting the impression that it's the latter. The abandonment issues (I'm totally digging Sheppard having been shot down in enemy territory with no hope of rescue) and more of his borderline suicidal heroic tendencies. TPTB are having a lot of fun dragging this out, aren't they? That or they're not sure what Sheppard's backstory is going to be either.

Of course, I'll still drool over teh pretty and laugh myself silly. SGA is always entertaining. ^^;;

xfkirsten
November 29th, 2005, 12:01 PM
No, still nothing concrete on his backstory, even after we were promised it in this one. I think what we really got out of it was more a sense that he has pre-existing abandonment issues, maybe related to what happened in Afghanistan.

Jonzey
November 29th, 2005, 12:14 PM
So anyone else getting tired of the ''Oh look, ancients and cool technology and stuff'' which is then all gone by the end of the episode. How many times have they met ancients or found cool technology and yet ended the episode with nothing?

AutumnDream
November 29th, 2005, 12:29 PM
I haven't gotten around to watching the ep yet (and I'm sure to have more detailed thoughts then), but from everyone's comments it sounds like "Epiphany" has the same sort of character moments vs. plot issues that "The Hive" does. Which is to say, massive squee over our lovable heroes being their lovable selves and blinding migraines when trying to logic out what the hell actually happened and the supporting characters.

So. Is there anything specific on Sheppard's backstory? Or is it all just more fuel to the fire? I'm getting the impression that it's the latter. The abandonment issues (I'm totally digging Sheppard having been shot down in enemy territory with no hope of rescue) and more of his borderline suicidal heroic tendencies. TPTB are having a lot of fun dragging this out, aren't they? That or they're not sure what Sheppard's backstory is going to be either.

Of course, I'll still drool over teh pretty and laugh myself silly. SGA is always entertaining. ^^;;

The story was actually pretty simplistic unfortunately, but it left open some pretty interesting stuff. For one, the special little ascension sanctuary remained intact. I can't see how this could possibly NOT be revisted later.

Sheppard actually said in the episode, "I'm seriously starting to feel some abandonment issues!". But he was just joking then. The funny thing is, his reaction to his friends not coming to help him when he was in the cave actually did show some real abandonment issues. Very interesting.

...and for those who are saying we were "promised" Sheppard backstory, you should read the interviews more carefully. There's one with JF on about.com where he specifically mentions that they wouldn't be going into his backstory in the episode he wrote.

AutumnDream
November 29th, 2005, 12:32 PM
So anyone else getting tired of the ''Oh look, ancients and cool technology and stuff'' which is then all gone by the end of the episode. How many times have they met ancients or found cool technology and yet ended the episode with nothing?

Three times.

The Brotherhood: Lost a ZPM.

Trinity: Lost a power generator that wouldn't have worked anyway.

Aurora: Lost a bunch of old men/women and a wrecked ship. Joseph Mallozzi said that we were seeing ancients at various points along their physiological and cultural evolution. The people on Aurora probably weren't THAT much more advanced than we are. They sure didn't seem like it. I don't think there was too huge a loss of techie stuff there.

The cool ancient technology from this episode is still there. McKay will probably study the time dilation field from outside. They might be able to load a ZPM (for extended power consumtion inside the field) on a real MALP and study the field generator. The people who ascended at the end didn't know anything about ancient technology that would be useful to "us" anyway.

caty
November 29th, 2005, 12:46 PM
I just remembered another scene that cracked me up and I don't think it has been mentioned..

Shep (taking a peek under his blanket after he woke up): Which one of you guys got me out of my clothes and into these?
Teera: I did. Is that alright?
Shep: Yeah, I just like to meet women before they see me naked.

The way he said it, I LMAO!!

alfirin_kirinki
November 29th, 2005, 01:00 PM
Okay - they've confiscated Flanigan's pen, now, right?

Yeade
November 29th, 2005, 01:01 PM
Ah. Okay then. Thanks, xfkirsten, AutumnDream. That's pretty much the feeling I got. More questions than questions answered. I was under the impression that this ep had spoilers about Afghanistan flashbacks. I suppose maybe that wasn't meant literally and in a more 'similar situation' kind of way... or I'm remembering some interview or other wrong, lol.

From the sounds of it, though, Sheppard's got some serious abandonment issues.

He's usually pretty sharp about any sort of wrongness in his environment (see "Home"), but it seems like he was so caught up on the fact that the others weren't coming for him that he couldn't think through the why of it. Is he really doubting that his team, Weir, Beckett, et al. care for him? He seems aware he has issues with being left like this, but this self-knowledge doesn't keep him from feeling the way he does.

What's more, I find Sheppard's penchant to fly off and die for just about anyone really fascinating in light of the abandonment issues. I mean, wow, talk about being selectively blind. Sheppard clearly has problems leaving people behind or being left himself, but he doesn't realize he's doing just that when he, say, takes it upon himself to get in a jumper and make a suicide bombing run on a hive ship. Sure, that was for a good cause, but it's striking that it never occurs to him that he doesn't (even shouldn't because of his military responsibilities) have to make the run himself. Nor does he stop to consider how his decision might hurt others.

(How many times have we seen poor Rodney, the woobie, make that face, his Siege II face, because he thinks John's up and gotten killed before he could save the stupid, self-sacrificing idiot? Teyla knows, too, that the man is his own worst enemy sometimes. Talk about high maintenance!)

Between his dissociative approach to violence and personal relationships, the occasional crazy! moments, the abandonment issues, and suicidal tendencies, Sheppard's turning out to be a real headcase. :p

Regarding the Ancient stuff, I don't really have any expectations that the expedition will manage to find and keep anything, besides Atlantis, for a good, long time. I whine and whine and whine about the lack of information about the Wraith, Sheppard, and the Ancients, I know, but I can understand that SGA is only in its second season and all mysteries have to be dragged out. Most of the time. :rolleyes:

Easter Lily
November 29th, 2005, 01:06 PM
I don't think it's as bad as it's made out to be but like people have said, it could've been better. The potential to pack much more of an emotional punch was there. But I think the main problem is that most people expected much more eg. Sheppard backstory but it didn't deliver... Wonder what happen to that... I suspect that this episode didn't really know what it wanted to be... it tried to be all things to all men...

Years and years ago, I remember watching, what I would consider one of the best Star Trek:TNG episodes called "Inner Light" which falls along similar lines. To me it is probably the best take on this time dilation issue. It played the emotional angle much better and featured a tour de force performance by Patrick Stewart.

majortrip
November 29th, 2005, 01:13 PM
...and for those who are saying we were "promised" Sheppard backstory, you should read the interviews more carefully. There's one with JF on about.com where he specifically mentions that they wouldn't be going into his backstory in the episode he wrote.
The JF interview here on GW has a bit about that; JF said that there would be flashbacks about what happened to him in Afghanistan. This obviously didn't pan out.

dosed150
November 29th, 2005, 01:27 PM
i expected shep to actually have an epiphany anyone actually notice this or was it not there

Merlin7
November 29th, 2005, 02:12 PM
Well..to say I was disappointed with EPIPHANY is putting it mildly. I wish we had seen the EP that Joe had pitched the SL for. Cause this wasn't it and I felt bad for HIM and for ME.

I loved the beginning. I loved Shep in the cave. That stuff was great. The team realizing it's just minutes for them but hours/days for Shep. Shep trying to keep up the hope then going off to fend for himself. All fab. Joe was amazing in the cave. Loved it. Actually...loved him for the whole ep.

But then they had to ruin it with the rest of the stuff. The beast was stupid. I felt like Shep at the end. "THAT'S IT? THat's all it took?" Or however the lines went. That was beyond anti climatic. I guess maybe that was the point but it makes for blah viewing.

Like HIVE..this tried to pack too many scenes in instead of focusing on one issue. I wanted the backstory. Another promise TPTB make but don't keep.

I could have accepted NOT getting it if the focus had been more about John and his abandoment issues and if we had a tag scene on Atlantis where he's maybe on the balcony, or whatever, and it's discussed. It was a big deal to him. His reaction to seeing the team said it all then it's just dumped. They could have cut the team fighting the beast scene down to ten seconds. WE GET IT!

I enjoyed the team worrying about him and the intensity. Joe was fab through out. The chick was creepy/weird. They could have skipped that stuff. I would have loved more of Shep and the little girl. Joe and that girl were so sweet/adorable. More of her GIFTS and the fact they said he could join them. Really? How is that? He's not ANCIENT..is he? Are they? They'd have to be right?

Plot holes and stupid storytelling. Droppage of the ball again.

But...Joe was great. He gave me a few more layers to Shep, as always. I'll take em.

caty
November 29th, 2005, 02:19 PM
He's usually pretty sharp about any sort of wrongness in his environment (see "Home"), but it seems like he was so caught up on the fact that the others weren't coming for him that he couldn't think through the why of it. Is he really doubting that his team, Weir, Beckett, et al. care for him? He seems aware he has issues with being left like this, but this self-knowledge doesn't keep him from feeling the way he does.

Well, I don't think there was any way as to how Sheppard could have known that time travels faster for him. It was not mentioned at all before he was pulled in and he didn't have the camcorder either, so how could he possibly have figured that out?
Anyway, I agree with you that he should know his team wouldn't abandon him, and I think deep down, he knows there must be a reason for them to stay away. However, the way he acts lets me know that there must have been something similar in his past(like somebody left him in enemy hands, somebody he expected to come back for him) and he never really got over that. So his vision might be a little clouded.


What's more, I find Sheppard's penchant to fly off and die for just about anyone really fascinating in light of the abandonment issues. I mean, wow, talk about being selectively blind. Sheppard clearly has problems leaving people behind or being left himself, but he doesn't realize he's doing just that when he, say, takes it upon himself to get in a jumper and make a suicide bombing run on a hive ship. Sure, that was for a good cause, but it's striking that it never occurs to him that he doesn't (even shouldn't because of his military responsibilities) have to make the run himself. Nor does he stop to consider how his decision might hurt others.

Hey, what are you doing with poor Shep? I don't think you can call risking your life for others 'leaving poeple behind', because that is an entirely different story. What he dispises is when you leave people behind without trying everything humanly possible to save them first, even if it means risking your own life, because you are too scared or the chances aren't that good.
He hates abandoning people for selfish reasons and that's also why he is always the first one to volunteer for everything. "The leader is the most expendable part of the team." --that could have been written for him! He'd never send in somebody else, because he is too important!


(How many times have we seen poor Rodney, the woobie, make that face, his Siege II face, because he thinks John's up and gotten killed before he could save the stupid, self-sacrificing idiot? Teyla knows, too, that the man is his own worst enemy sometimes. Talk about high maintenance!)

Fist of all... Sheppard is "The Woobie"! :D
And Sheppard is also the HERO of the show and he has proved often enough that you can hardly call him 'stupid idiot'...


And something else: What exactly does 'Epiphany' as a title for the episode mean? I looked it up in my dictionary, but all it said was 'Christan festival on the 6th of January', nothing symbolic...

Agent_Dark
November 29th, 2005, 02:35 PM
And something else: What exactly does 'Epiphany' as a title for the episode mean? I looked it up in my dictionary, but all it said was 'Christan festival on the 6th of January', nothing symbolic...
'A revelatory manifestation of a divine being'

'A sudden manifestation of the essence or meaning of something'

'A comprehension or perception of reality by means of a sudden intuitive realization: “I experienced an epiphany, a spiritual flash that would change the way I viewed myself” (Frank Maier).'

http://www.answers.com/epiphany

It probably has to do with the humans ascending, since Sheppard didn't exactly make any other sudden reveleations about himself or anything in particular. But even the ascension thing wasn't really 'a sudden realisation' or anything...

AutumnDream
November 29th, 2005, 02:51 PM
Maybe the title is a leftover from Joe's original story.

Tok'Ra Hostess
November 29th, 2005, 03:00 PM
I just saw the ep. It was okay viewing but nothing fancy.

The story reminded me of an existential SF novel I read in school about twins who found a shed inside which time went faster. One of the twins - the skinny, gentle, feminized, picked-on-by-his-big-athletic brother one - decided to spend the night inside the shed so that when he emerged he'd be a year older than his brother and of course, he grew into a real man. Anybody recognize it?

It also reminded me of the Star Trek NG ep where Picard lives out an entire lifetime- marrying, having children and grandchildren, in 28 minutes. Now that was a well-done episode - my fav of all the ST eps ever.

MacKay got on my nerves this week. Consistancy is all good and well, but his character needs to evolve a bit; he needs to save the attitude for special occasions - as it is they tend to pop up five or six times per episode.... ;)

I figured that the beast represented the sum of their fears when it got near the village and after that conversation with his GF, I figured out how Sheppard would "defeat" it.

It was good to see Weir use her translation skills, and a nice nod to the much more fascinating Before I Sleep.

AutumnDream
November 29th, 2005, 03:04 PM
Between his dissociative approach to violence and personal relationships, the occasional crazy! moments, the abandonment issues, and suicidal tendencies, Sheppard's turning out to be a real headcase. :p

Yeah! That is SO cool. I love him for it. Him and McKay are probably the most unique characters in SG canon so far. I actually like that everything about Sheppard is so concealed. He's like a walking enigma, with a kind smile and a wicked sense of humor that makes you forget all about the mysteries... until you actually remember.


Regarding the Ancient stuff, I don't really have any expectations that the expedition will manage to find and keep anything, besides Atlantis, for a good, long time. I whine and whine and whine about the lack of information about the Wraith, Sheppard, and the Ancients, I know, but I can understand that SGA is only in its second season and all mysteries have to be dragged out. Most of the time. :rolleyes:

Well, you're right. They do have Atlantis. I mean they STARTED with the coolest thing the ancients ever made. (I presume...) That makes up for even 1000 years of not finding anything else. :D

Now that I think of the episode from a plot device standpoint, it's a bit weird.

First: Why was there a time dilation field? Answer: To provide the character Sheppard a chance to experience a great deal of time in an unfamiliar environment without causing that much time to pass in the "real" world. Without severely messing with the established setting.

Why would they do this? Answer: To offer insight into Sheppard's current character, to develop the character, and generally to show various things about him.

Was any of this really done, to the full extent that it could have been? To the extent that Teyla was explored in The Gift or more?

No.

Why then, would they choose to put ancients in the time field with him, rather than some other random race? Answer: To provide plot development pertaining to the ancients, to provide some sort of connection between Sheppard and the ancients, or to better achieve the character development goals for Sheppard. Was any of this done?

We found out minimal amounts of information about the ancients, most of which we already knew.

Personally, I would have used a different time dilation ratio, so that weeks would have passed for Atlantis and Sheppard would have been gone about a year. It would have been much more dramatic and worrysome for Weir and company, and it wouldn't have eaten up too much time in the series.

This episode just doesn't make sense. It almost feels like nothing happened. There wasn't that "Omg! What's this all about? So captivating!" feeling I had in 17 out of 20 Season 1 episodes.

Willow'sCat
November 29th, 2005, 03:07 PM
Oh this is the SG-1 "100 Days" episode of SGA. :rolleyes: Didn't Joe Flanigan have a hand in the writing or am I thinking of another episode? :S

And yeah you have to love the fact that the female is Hot and has discovered Californian style eyebrow waxing techniques. :D Wow two hot women in two episodes Shepps the man. :p

Excali5033
November 29th, 2005, 03:16 PM
The story reminded me of an existential SF novel I read in school about twins who found a shed inside which time went faster. One of the twins - the skinny, gentle, feminized, picked-on-by-his-big-athletic brother one - decided to spend the night inside the shed so that when he emerged he'd be a year older than his brother and of course, he grew into a real man. Anybody recognize it?

Singularity, by William Sleator. This was the first thing to come to my mind, as well.

Liverpool_chicK
November 29th, 2005, 03:24 PM
I agree with some of you. About 10 minutes into this epi, I realized to myself that I had seen this story idea before, or several of them. It did remind me of 100 days, and A Matter of Time. I don't know if it was me, but I was not impress with this epi at all. Not one of there best.

Scarym1
November 29th, 2005, 03:42 PM
I enjoyed this ep. It was sort of odd too. How they defeat the beast at the end was sappy. I loved the humor. When Rodney compared Ronan and Teyla to Conan and Xena I just lost it!!! I like how Rodney admitted that he couldn't fly the jumper in a straight line and that he didn't trust Beckett to fly it.

I couldn't quite hear it but did Rodney admit that the idea for the probe was Zelenka idea. He mumbled it just after Carson said it was a great idea.

Sheppard was funny with his "Can you hear me now?" and that he didn't have a volleyball to talk with.

It started out great got sappy in the middle and ended nicely. I like how that ascended lady told Rodney to leave the ZPM and the generator alone.

xfkirsten
November 29th, 2005, 03:49 PM
'A revelatory manifestation of a divine being'

'A sudden manifestation of the essence or meaning of something'

'A comprehension or perception of reality by means of a sudden intuitive realization: “I experienced an epiphany, a spiritual flash that would change the way I viewed myself” (Frank Maier).'

http://www.answers.com/epiphany

It probably has to do with the humans ascending, since Sheppard didn't exactly make any other sudden reveleations about himself or anything in particular. But even the ascension thing wasn't really 'a sudden realisation' or anything...

That was basically my take on the title - that it's the villagers that had the epiphany, not Sheppard. I don't know that it was the ascension itself that was the epiphany, though... IMHO, the epiphany to them was that yes, they really could defeat this beast by themselves and gain ascension that way. They definitely had a pretty sudden change of heart about that.

Agent_Dark
November 29th, 2005, 03:54 PM
That was basically my take on the title - that it's the villagers that had the epiphany, not Sheppard. I don't know that it was the ascension itself that was the epiphany, though... IMHO, the epiphany to them was that yes, they really could defeat this beast by themselves and gain ascension that way. They definitely had a pretty sudden change of heart about that.
Yeah that's what I figured too... But it seems kind of a weak reference to me though, considering the 'Villagers figure out' was a bit lame.

xfkirsten
November 29th, 2005, 03:57 PM
Yeah that's what I figured too... But it seems kind of a weak reference to me though, considering the 'Villagers figure out' was a bit lame.

Ah, no argument there! :D

AutumnDream
November 29th, 2005, 04:04 PM
What does that MEAN? He "gave them the strength to realize it" or whatever. I'm all for being analytical with literature, but that wasn't a cleverly crafted metaphor or complexity, it was just rushed. Especially because I think it showed him in the cave more than it actually showed in connecting with the villagers.

In A Hundred Days, you could really feel O'Neill starting to be part of the community. I think Sheppard was more reluctant than that, but it really did seem like he was only there a couple of hours.

MartoufMarty
November 29th, 2005, 04:15 PM
Well, John's epiphany was probably realizing that he has a place he belongs. Atlantis. He has people who care about him, people he would miss, a job he loves. He can't just sit down and meditate all day.

He's realized his place is truely in Atlantis, not out in the wilderness trying to ascend to a high plane of existance.

SGalisa
November 29th, 2005, 04:19 PM
what happened to all (even some of) the backstory on Shep's life before Atlantis? or was that just a tease?

Brad rewrote Joe's original idea. So, it's not Joe's fault if this ep pales in comparison with what *could be*...

Shep may have a magnetic personality (attracting the girls in more than one way), but he's still not Kirk. He's more like Spock (but with more personality spunk and *brains* in the MENSA ability area. Kirk was too dumb to figure that stuff out...) ;)

Cynicat
November 29th, 2005, 04:52 PM
Sure, there was mention of "McKay Grand Theft ZPM" (Tm)

Sorry, but I just had to... :P

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v719/Cynicat/gta_mckay_thumb.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v719/Cynicat/gta_mckay.jpg)
[click on thumbnail for full-size image. 34kb]

MartoufMarty
November 29th, 2005, 05:00 PM
Sorry, but I just had to... :P

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v719/Cynicat/gta_mckay_thumb.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v719/Cynicat/gta_mckay.jpg)
[click on thumbnail for full-size image. 34kb]
LMAO!

I would so buy that!

aAnubiSs
November 29th, 2005, 05:04 PM
I really hate pretty much everything about ascension. You have to give up fear, but appearently feel free to keep love around.

Weren't we supposed to hear Rachel's singing voice in this one?

xfkirsten
November 29th, 2005, 05:07 PM
I really hate pretty much everything about ascension. You have to give up fear, but appearently feel free to keep love around.

Weren't we supposed to hear Rachel's singing voice in this one?

Ah, was this the one where she was going to sing? I recall her mentioning that at ComicCon.

AutumnDream
November 29th, 2005, 05:19 PM
Sorry, but I just had to... :P

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v719/Cynicat/gta_mckay_thumb.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v719/Cynicat/gta_mckay.jpg)
[click on thumbnail for full-size image. 34kb]

I almost DIED laughing! Really! I ran out of air and was choking on my apple simultaneously! Oh god!

This deserves to be on Gateworld's front page.

Yeade
November 29th, 2005, 05:35 PM
Well, I don't think there was any way as to how Sheppard could have known that time travels faster for him.Hm. You're right in that Sheppard most likely didn't have anything of practical use in figuring out the time warp. (Though I can't say for certain until I actually watch the episode, lol.) I just figured that maybe his experiences in "Childhood's End," "Home," and with Chaya in alien deception and general weirdness, combined with his knowing that his friends wouldn't abandon him, would have made him somewhat suspicious of outside interference. That Sheppard might've gotten curious about the planet and done more extensive exploring or something. Even if he couldn't figure out what, exactly, was the problem.

My point, actually, was that this is what I would've expected of smart!Sheppard if he hadn't been on his own and dealing with the abandonment issues.
However, the way he acts lets me know that there must have been something similar in his past(like somebody left him in enemy hands, somebody he expected to come back for him) and he never really got over that. So his vision might be a little clouded.Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Sounds like Sheppard waited for his team a long time in the cave before getting--and this is telling--not angry but sad and resigned to being left on his own.
Hey, what are you doing with poor Shep? I don't think you can call risking your life for others 'leaving poeple behind', because that is an entirely different story. What he dispises is when you leave people behind without trying everything humanly possible to save them first, even if it means risking your own life, because you are too scared or the chances aren't that good.Don't get me wrong, please! I'm not bashing poor Sheppard or anything. And I do understand what it is that drives him to take so many risks if it means he can save his people though the roots of this mentality haven't been revealed yet.

That doesn't change the fact that, as far as I can tell, Sheppard never thinks twice about the consequences. Beyond that his people would be immediately safe. And, IMO, his nearly instinctive response of going off to fight his battles alone and putting his life on the line in dangerous situations is, realistically, a flaw as military commander of Atlantis even as it, rightfully, gets him the love and adoration of the entire expedition.

I have no doubt many who were there for Sheppard's suicide run in "The Siege," and who were there to see him return alive, decided henceforth that they would follow him anywhere and would die to make sure he lived. However, as the highest ranking military officer in Atlantis, Sheppard not only has a responsibility to keep his people safe but a responsibility to keep himself safe, the better to keep his people safe, and he needs to be able to recognize when his people need him alive more than dead. Once Sheppard's dead, he can do no more. Suppose the Deddy hadn't been there to bail Sheppard out, and the Genii warhead only takes out the one hive ship. Atlantis would be without a military commander (never mind that he was also the expedition's own larger-than-life hero and magic gene carrier), soldiers and civilians scattered to hell and back, the self-destruct counting down, the one hive ship still threatening, and very little time to evacuate to the alpha site. And after that? What then? I can't imagine the expedition wouldn't keenly feel the loss of Sheppard's presence and optimism, his squirrely intelligence. And feel it far more than the loss, if painful on a human level, of just anyone who also happens to have the gene and might've been able to pilot that jumper.

I mangled that explanation, but hopefully it still makes sense?

Basically, I agree that Sheppard seems to take to heart the idea that the leader is expendable, but I don't agree that this is applicable in his case. When no one else can do what you're doing, and what you're doing greatly affects the welfare of hundreds, you are not expendable. I think dying the heroic death has been cast very romantically in comparison to staying and doing your job to the bitter end, but that doesn't make the former better than the latter.

In relation to this, I often think of how the military operations in Atlantis seemed to grind to a halt when Sheppard and his team went missing in "The Lost Boys." And Sheppard has the added burden of being such a figurehead to the expedition.

Er. I didn't mean to go on for so long, but this is a topic I'd recently done a bit of thinking about when watching Band of Brothers with my mother over Thanksgiving. If any of you are familiar with that miniseries, refer to Winters and the way he changes after making battalion command.
And Sheppard is also the HERO of the show and he has proved often enough that you can hardly call him 'stupid idiot'...I meant that affectionately with a fair share of exasperation. :)
MacKay got on my nerves this week. Consistancy is all good and well, but his character needs to evolve a bit; he needs to save the attitude for special occasions - as it is they tend to pop up five or six times per episode...As I understand it, McKay only really starts to rake across the nerves when he's genuinely worried to death. Like he says in, um, "Thirty-Eight Minutes," I think, he has a certain reaction to life-and-death situations. And that's to get short with people, strung out, and panicked. Pretty realistic, actually, and rather endearing, IMO. I imagine McKay would've been particularly cross with anyone who asked questions he had to waste time--time Sheppard couldn't afford--answering. Besides, didn't he admit Zelenka came up with a brilliant idea? That's a first. And maybe a reaction to "Trinity."
I actually like that everything about Sheppard is so concealed. He's like a walking enigma, with a kind smile and a wicked sense of humor that makes you forget all about the mysteries... until you actually remember.Same here. I often have to work hard to puzzle out why he is the way he is. (Though some of that could be because TPTB have given us, like, nothing about the man! :rolleyes: ) Your comment reminds me of a recent LJ discussion kicked off by someone who honestly thought Sheppard's outward charm concealed something darker and a lot more malicious than most, I think, would credit. I didn't agree with the malicious aspect, but I do think his charm is often superficial, giving people the illusion of closeness, and that Sheppard is dangerous in some way he perhaps tries his best to control.
They do have Atlantis. I mean they STARTED with the coolest thing the ancients ever made.Now if only the expedition would explore the city more...
This episode just doesn't make sense. It almost feels like nothing happened.Those were some good points about the plot devices, and I agree. The episode did have nice character interaction though, right? And followed through on some of the emotional arcs (Cadman, "Trinity")? Plus, despite the lack of any specific details, it's clear Sheppard's got abandonment issues. And it's yet another case of Sheppard hitting it off with Ancient types. I'm hoping that, like the "Hot Zone" nanovirus, the hanging plots were left hanging for a reason.
What does that MEAN? [Sheppard] "gave [Teer et al.] the strength to realize it" or whatever.He guilted them into facing what they already knew? I got the impression--again, keep in mind I haven't watched the ep yet--the villagers knew, deep down, what the Beast really was. What with the freaky mind powers and such, how could they not? Though they said otherwise, I don't think the villagers were ready to Ascend and accepted the Beast as an excuse. Sheppard's "I don't know what the hell that thing is, but I'm facing it with head held high (and a knife)" attitude exposed their fear for what it was and inspired them to conquer it.
In A Hundred Days, you could really feel O'Neill starting to be part of the community. I think Sheppard was more reluctant than that, but it really did seem like he was only there a couple of hours.God, not more time issues. ;)
[Sheppard] can't just sit down and meditate all day.LOL! I've seen a few screencaps of him meditating, and I gotta say I lovelovelove his expression. It's too bad there isn't a scene of one of the villagers poking Sheppard in the shoulder, startling him awake, and telling him to quit snoring, it's disturbing their concentration.
He's realized his place is truely in Atlantis, not out in the wilderness trying to ascend to a high plane of existance.Did you mean this jokingly? :p


edit: tags

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
November 29th, 2005, 05:41 PM
McKay (to Sheppard): What is it with you and ascended women?

Good episode

The Ascendtion effect were sweet, better than effect used when Daniel Ascended (in Meridian).
Sheppard looks cool in a beard (although I prefer him with his shaved face).

*1/2 to ** I give it.

Cynicat
November 29th, 2005, 06:17 PM
I almost DIED laughing! Really! I ran out of air and was choking on my apple simultaneously! Oh god!

This deserves to be on Gateworld's front page.

*blushes profusely* Aww, thanks! :D (though I didn't intend to cause death-by-apple LOL - eek!)

Yeade
November 29th, 2005, 06:35 PM
Darn it. I knew I left someone out. Sorry, Merlin7. :o
I could have accepted NOT getting it if the focus had been more about John and his abandoment issues and if we had a tag scene on Atlantis where he's maybe on the balcony, or whatever, and it's discussed. It was a big deal to him. His reaction to seeing the team said it all then it's just dumped.Except Sheppard would never talk about it, right? We, the viewers, know he's got serious abandonment issues because we watched (okay, I haven't yet, but I will, I will!) him go through a nervous breakdown (overstating a bit, I think, but there's the idea) in that cave, and while Weir probably tried to address how long Sheppard was left alone, John would never let that conversation get off the ground. If not for his sake, then for the sake of those he cares about. Sheppard shows an admirable willingness to seek medical attention when needed in "Conversion," but I don't think he takes the same approach to his mental/emotional problems.

Actually, I think if whatever-it-is couldn't end up hurting anyone else, Sheppard will consciously stuff it away in some dark corner of his mind and soul. That kind of repression is probably why he has occasional crazy! moments.

Like I said, what a headcase. :p
More of [Teer's] GIFTS and the fact [the villagers] said [Sheppard] could join them.Really? I mean, seriously? Right then and there?!

Sheppard didn't do all that well with the meditation or, I imagine, show much sign that he'd be willing to give up his life on the mortal plane. Makes me wonder just what is involved in Ascension anyways.

You're right, I think, that this, Sheppard's magic gene, and the whole Chaya... thing raises some questions about the guy. Why does Sheppard fall for every Ancient or near-Ancient chick he meets? And why does it seem like these Ancient or near-Ancient chicks return that interest and treat him as if he were one of them? I'm itching to get Beckett an Ancient or near-Ancient chick so I can compare. :D

At any rate, this is another hanging plot I'm hoping won't remain hanging forever. Even if it takes another five seasons to get to it (okay, maybe not that long). I can already imagine Sheppard's reaction upon being told:

a) he's genetically an Ancient via freak mutation or eugenics
b) time-traveling Janus or another Ancient of your choice is somehow closely related to him
c) he was an Ascended Ancient but got booted out because of his smartass attitude, memory erased
d) some terrible plot twist I can't begin to describe involving fate, destiny, cosmic purposes, blahblahblah, and Atlantis

See "Rising" and his "mutant gene, alien missile" talk with Jack. Then apparently taking it in stride and never letting on that it really does bother him.


edit: tags

Ouroboros
November 29th, 2005, 07:43 PM
Much Much better showing than last week here much better. They should let Joe Flannigan write more episodes.

I was impressed by how certain little details actually got acknowledged. Things like "damn I should have given him a note" and "this field must generate it's own seperate day/night cycle and everything". Just two little bits said in passing to show us that the story was aware of the issues in question. Nice and tight, I like it, it assumes the audience is smart enough to notice these things and gives us an explanation instead of just trying to sweep it under the rug. Thanks for the respect guys.

Aside from the episode being an awful lot like that SG-1 show where O'neill got stranded for a year on that other planet I've got no complaints. In terms of consistancy, plain old common sense and tight writing this episode is probably the stand-out one of season two. Going in I thought I was going to be pretty bored from reading the plot synopsis but I actually came away pleasently surprised.

I'll give it a solid 8.5/10. I would have ranked it even higher but it turned out that that invisable thing that soundled like a Wraith dart wasn't actually a real Wraith soldier that had been trapped in there since the ancient war. If that had been the case it would have done some much needed repair work to the Wraith's lousy reputation and shown us how they stood a chance against the Ancients better. That's more of a missed opportunity than any sort of genuine flaw though.

Thumbs up to Joe for a mighty fine first shot at writing an episode.:D

Good show, and let hope this one starts a streak.

AutumnDream
November 29th, 2005, 07:44 PM
a) he's genetically an Ancient via freak mutation or eugenics
b) time-traveling Janus or another Ancient of your choice is somehow closely related to him
c) he was an Ascended Ancient but got booted out because of his smartass attitude, memory erased
d) some terrible plot twist I can't begin to describe involving fate, destiny, cosmic purposes, blahblahblah, and Atlantis

See "Rising" and his "mutant gene, alien missile" talk with Jack. Then apparently taking it in stride and never letting on that it really does bother him.

Yes! All of those things! A to D. ESPECIALLY D! I was really hoping for one of those in this episode. "When the time is right", maybe? Well, like Sheppard himself says with the utmost sarcasm, "Good! I hate for things to be revealed too early." :D

Here's hoping for possibility D to be revealed in the future!

I thought of an "Option E" earlier, which is basically the same thing as your eugenics theory. Maybe when the ancients came back to Earth they decided to have one or two families have children only with other "pure" ancients, thus preserving the evolutionary state of a few humans in case there came a time when Earth needed someone who could use the technology they left. Sheppard might be the only or one of the only remaining "pure bloods", so to speak. Maybe because of the Weir BIS time loop, they did it intentionally to improve the chances of Atlantis being revived. They knew it was going to happen in 10,000 years, right? It would be a self-referencing time loop instead of what we previously thought was a complete time loop that way.


*blushes profusely* Aww, thanks! :D (though I didn't intend to cause death-by-apple LOL - eek!)

I have a feeling we'll be seeing more Theif!McKay and co. in the future, so we'd better get the community familiar with the term "GTZPM" and your image. ^_^

Willow'sCat
November 29th, 2005, 07:51 PM
I agree with some of you. About 10 minutes into this epi, I realized to myself that I had seen this story idea before, or several of them. It did remind me of 100 days, and A Matter of Time. I don't know if it was me, but I was not impress with this epi at all. Not one of there best.I liked it for McKay and Dex. I loved their interaction and Rodney's complete lack of pretense about how he see Ronon and Teyla was great. :D Joe did a good job carrying the episode I don't know about the abandonment issues this is new to me I get him not having much to keep him on Earth but he mentions in the episode a few times that his team will be coming and in the end that he missed them which surprised me because I see John as not expressing his emotions, was this in character for him? :S Although I did notice the line about not leaving anyone behind, so maybe he did feel that they might have abandoned him there. I do think John should have figured the time differential out but hey he was busy. :p

Also on that just a few little annoying things, did he see the tree branch? Would Dr McKay really forget to include a note in the first 'supply drop'? If the villages are that close to Ascension why were they so thick as to not see the Beast for what it was? Do thick people get to Assend too? If so there is hope for all of us. :p

Dr Weir and Dr Beckett off world was nice to see even if brief and a little jokey in Carson's case and 'the' Dr Beckett has a date with Laura, slotted in nicely for future reference.

Loved Dr McKay admitting that Zelenka had a good idea that must have been hard for him, even if it turned out to be not such a good idea.

But...

I get the feeling that they weren't joking when the team behind SG-1 made reference to correcting mistakes they made with SG-1 through SGA. :rolleyes: How many more episodes are going to be blatant, I mean blatant ripp-offs of SG-1 story lines! :eek: I get there are only so many ways to tell a story and that after 9 1/2 seasons of SG-1, repeating is going to happen but this is getting ridiculous and a little bit sad.

AutumnDream
November 29th, 2005, 08:14 PM
Hopefully just this one and Intruder.
>.>
<.<
>.>

IMForeman
November 29th, 2005, 09:02 PM
Darmok and Jelad at Tenagra. The Beast at Tenagra... Hosani, his armies. Shaka when the walls fell.

Damn that beast looked like the one in Darmok.

I like the characterization of our regular team, and some of the most memorable one liners going... but this story was kind of weak. It just wasn't really thought out as well as it should have been. Overall, the weakest of the season, but even a weak episode of SGA is still enjoyable.

-IMF

IMForeman
November 29th, 2005, 09:04 PM
Oh, and Jarnin... the movie version of Sphere was a total dog's lunch. The novel was primo, though.

9-Chevron
November 29th, 2005, 10:33 PM
Can you hear me now?:D

Dorka
November 29th, 2005, 11:24 PM
Finally watched this episode. I don't know, many people said that it was disapointing for them, but I don't really feel like this.
I liked it more, than last weeks. There were some nice moments...like McKay comparing Ronon and Teyla to Xena and Conon...and John saying, that he didn't want to talk to a volleyball -> Cast Away

And the thing I really really really liked, was the fact that Elizabeth went with them. She was nearly as enthusiastic as McKay, while she did the translation! She really should go off-world more times...it suits her very well!

The thing I didn't like was Kirky-Sheppard. I mean, why do the men in a SciFi-show kiss nealry every women on other planets? Is that really neccesary? I don't think so!

What I also liked was the interaction between Teyla and McKay, they really work together well ;)

Oh, and Ronon was really worried about Sheppard...more than I would have thought!

watcher652
November 29th, 2005, 11:41 PM
Well, that was interesting. But it seemed too quick. Must have been that time dilation thing.

Random thoughts (and pardon me if some have them have already been brought up):

I don’t understand why Sheppard went thru the portal in the first place. Especially after McKay made that joke about the atmosphere. And although McKay took the blame for Sheppard going in later on, again, like in Trinity, I don’t think it’s entirely his fault. Where is the caution that Sheppard should be displaying? Again, like in Trinity, there’s no need to rush. Come back with a real MALP.

For some reason, the portal thing made me think of a quantum mirror, something McKay should be aware of.

McKay seemed extra snippy at Ronan in this part of episode. And that was mean of McKay to later call Ronan and Teyla, Conan and Xena. But not to their faces. I never noticed the similarity in those names before. I personally think those names are a compliment.

I know McKay was only going for an approximation but why did McKay count off the time instead of using that very big watch he wears on his wrist? Why didn’t Teyla use her watch when she needed to be more precise? She’s got to have one as part of the team. And come on, why isn’t McKay carrying a spare camera battery with him?

McKay is so frazzled he doesn’t think to write Sheppard a note. Not even after he thinks to write Sheppard a note.

Hey, when Sheppard leaves, why doesn’t he leave a note? He had plenty of rocks to use, but surely he must have had a pen and some paper on him with all those vest pockets.

Why does Sheppard keep his beard when he was in the village. Just to be different?

Is Elizabeth the only one who’s fluent in Ancient? Now that we have contact back Earth, can’t we get more linguists? I know Daniel is busy (and please, stay with SG1, please!) but there must be somebody comparable. It was nice to see her off planet, but it isn’t made clear why she’s the one that has to read the Ancient writing.

As much as I like Beckett, was it really necessary for him to go? Yes, yes, I know, always send your best into danger.

No Zelenka, but he did get a couple of mentions by McKay.

McKay actually admitted he can’t fly straight. But really, all he had to say was they needed a pilot because he was going to have to work with the equipment.

Why was the Jumper flying so far away from the time dilation crater? Was McKay just being extra cautious to be outside its influence?

Looks like the same tables were used to eat here as in the episode Sanctuary. Which would make them all purpose sanctuary tables.

How did Teyla sense that the beast was close? Just the lucky guess of a hunter? Or does her sensing ability extend to more than just the Wraith?

Looks like the team was walking thru the same field as in Duet. Which kind of looked like the same field as in Sanctuary. At least it looks like the same flowers as in Duet. I actually like that. When people complain that all the planets look alike, I think they should. Humans have a narrow range they can live in.

I liked how McKay and Beckett stay close to Elizabeth to protect her. McKay looked better with his gun than Beckett did, as it should be.

I liked the way the beast was portrayed. But, like Sheppard, I said “That’s it? That’s all it took?” when it disappeared. Why didn’t that girl foresee that?


Darmok and Jelad at Tenagra. The Beast at Tenagra... Hosani, his armies. Shaka when the walls fell.

Damn that beast looked like the one in Darmok.Thanks! It was nagging at me. I knew it looked familiar.

Loved McKay’s line, “What’s with you and Ascended women?” And Sheppard’s shrug back. Must be an ATA gene thing.

Again, McKay is deprived of a ZPM.

Yes, the math bugs me, too. If we say that the ratio is 1 to 240, then 1 hour equals 10 days. Six months is about 180 days, so it should have been about 18 hours and not “just a couple of hours” like Elizabeth says it was. But, are we using Earth days, Atlantis days, or Time Dilation planet days, which could be a faster rotation and have more days pass in less time?

I did love the scenes of seeing the whole main cast all together off set. That’s a rare thing on this show.

I though this was nice staging: Sheppard asks, “Where the hell were you?” and the others line up to talk to him. The beast shows itself and while Sheppard is facing the right direction, everybody else has to turn around and look up. The coordination of all the actors was very good. Then Sheppard moves forward thru the line. Ronan follows, pulling out his sword out of the ground. Teyla and McKay also move forward, but Beckett and Weir stay put. I liked how Sheppard’s team all moved together to protect the others that don’t have much off world experience.

Ronan didn’t look too impressed with the glowy thing.

I think this episode has more logic holes than an episode normally does. I’m always willing to suspend belief for the sake of the show, if we learn something new, whether it be new tech or a new personal revelation for one of the characters. That didn't really happen here.

But despite all that, and the big let down of the beast just going away without much effort, I did enjoy watching it because we got to see more of Sheppard than we usually do. And getting a look at his reactions to things that no one else in Atlantis is ever going to see. And, yeah, John in a beard was nice.

I thought we were going to have an epiphany from Sheppard, but I guess those people on that planet were the ones who had one. Although I’m not very clear what it was. It didn't seem they had to work very hard to get it.

Shep'sSocks
November 30th, 2005, 03:24 AM
To be fair, JF only wrote the idea, but the staff writers wrote took what he wrote, ripped it apart and wrote the screenplay.

I'm betting JF's original idea was a lot more interesting and had backstory instead of a beast.

Shep'sSocks
November 30th, 2005, 03:34 AM
The story was actually pretty simplistic unfortunately, but it left open some pretty interesting stuff. For one, the special little ascension sanctuary remained intact. I can't see how this could possibly NOT be revisted later.

If only because it provides a sanctuary for people in the Pegasus galaxy, like they wanted Proculus to be.

Shep'sSocks
November 30th, 2005, 03:43 AM
What does that MEAN? He "gave them the strength to realize it" or whatever. I'm all for being analytical with literature, but that wasn't a cleverly crafted metaphor or complexity, it was just rushed. Especially because I think it showed him in the cave more than it actually showed in connecting with the villagers.

In A Hundred Days, you could really feel O'Neill starting to be part of the community. I think Sheppard was more reluctant than that, but it really did seem like he was only there a couple of hours.

The ending was kind of 'Oops, we only have two more minutes, we need to finish the episode.'

lily
November 30th, 2005, 03:44 AM
c) he was an Ascended Ancient but got booted out because of his smartass attitude, memory erased


And he descended naked like Daniel? I want to see that :D

caty
November 30th, 2005, 05:44 AM
I'm surprised that nobody mentioned what Shep said in one scene with Teera when they were taking a walk through the fields. I'm not 100% that I got the lines right though..

Teera: I'm glad I finally got you out, you've been alone in your room for so long.
Shep: I am being depressed.

I mean, did he really say that? If he did, it surprises me, because he isn't the person to admit feelings like that and it didn't sound like he was joking, either.

Anyway, I loved the scene, it's so sweet to see that Shep misses home (Atlantis)..

The look during his first meditation... I just wanna hug him, he looks so sad!
BTW: I think this might have been a scene that was originally set after a bad memory of Earth/Afghanistan. IMHO, they did shoot that stuff, but TPTB cut it out eventually because of time issues..

Shep'sSocks
November 30th, 2005, 05:53 AM
I thought he looked bored during the meditation. He was certainly asleep during the second one!

mcalex22
November 30th, 2005, 06:35 AM
I just saw the ep. It was okay viewing but nothing fancy.

The story reminded me of an existential SF novel I read in school about twins who found a shed inside which time went faster. One of the twins - the skinny, gentle, feminized, picked-on-by-his-big-athletic brother one - decided to spend the night inside the shed so that when he emerged he'd be a year older than his brother and of course, he grew into a real man. Anybody recognize it?


While this will be off topic, I had to respond and say yes, I've read that novel too!!!:) I read it when I was in high school and I loved that story... I can't remember the title but I have never forgotten it because I liked that idea and I thought the ending was a little sad. Wow, this is amazing to meet someone else who has read this!

On to Epiphany, I've really enjoyed reading everyone's comments and opinions, both positive and negative in this thread.

I loved this episode and possibly love it even more than the Hive.

I thought Joe did an amazing job and it's nice to see a little more of Sheppard. As I was watching the episode I was extremely impressed by his handling of Sheppard's predicament because it really drew me into the show. I felt very sad for Sheppard and I could see his frustration, his desperation (when he threw the radio), his anger, his depression etc... I felt really sorry for him that he was in the cave and didn't know why his team hadn't come for him. And you know, I liked the fact that he never gave up hope that his friends would come for him.

I agree with others' comments that it would have been nice if they gave us some backstory to his character and more insight as we still don't know much about Sheppard... like perhaps more into his personal life etc.

I really didn't notice the Capt Kirk routine much. I didn't think it was OTT and I'm probably in the minority but the ancient chick seemed nice and I liked the fact that Sheppard got to romance someone. I like seeing that with his character coz it made him happy.

The special effects seemed good to me... probably not spectacular but maybe it was a budget issue. Afterall, they do tend to have "cheaper" episodes and more "expensive" episodes...

I also enjoyed the team dynamics - that's the bit I look forward to every week when I watch Atlantis. Really really enjoying Teyla and Rodney. Teyla and Ronon and Ronon and Rodney! I was very surprised that McKay actually admitted it was his fault, it was Radek's idea and he can't fly in a straight line. Poor Carson though... endless teasing from Rodney.

I had read some comments in one particular thread here (won't name names but I'm never visiting that place again!) that have really upset me or gave me the impression that this episode was horrible. Suffice to say there were many negative comments made about one or two of the other characters... which really depressed me.

So, I was pleasantly surprised that I really enjoyed this episode (but it could be that I'm a sappy person!) and really loved all the characters here.

I just found it strange that in the whole of Atlantis, Weir is the only one who can read Ancient that well? You mean they don't have a linguist??? Her going on an away mission and stepping through the barrier was a bit of a risk - I mean she is the leader and something could have happened to her! I got the impression that maybe John's heroism and self-sacricie tendencies were rubbing off on her!;)

Personally though I liked the idea of Elizabeth going off-world and I thought she showed a lot of concern for Sheppard and her comment about the beard seemed very personal. But I don't mind it.

I almost thought they were going to do a group hug or something at the end when John conceded that he missed them. And of course, the ever lovely and patient Teyla was so sweet about it, calming telling him that he was not far from their minds and admonishing Ronon slightly.

And I don't know if anyone else has commented on this, but I loved the soundtrack and the score. I'm one of those people who watch Atlantis and actually listen to the music.:)

The only criticism I have about this episode was that the solution to the beast seemed a bit weak! I mean, they just thought it away??? I know it was a manifestation of their fears but still...

Well those were my thoughts!

Ta,
Alex

Tok'Ra Hostess
November 30th, 2005, 06:39 AM
As I understand it, McKay only really starts to rake across the nerves when he's genuinely worried to death. Like he says in, um, "Thirty-Eight Minutes," I think, he has a certain reaction to life-and-death situations. And that's to get short with people, strung out, and panicked. Pretty realistic, actually, and rather endearing, IMO. I imagine McKay would've been particularly cross with anyone who asked questions he had to waste time---time Sheppard couldn't afford---answering. Besides, didn't he admit Zelenka came up with a brilliant idea? That's a first. And maybe a reaction to "Trinity."

I agree and enjoy his attitude when things get hot, as they did the moment Sheppard got sucked into the singularity. But otherwise he's overdoing it, IMO.

It was the opening scene with him snarking that I hated. I think that by now the character should be more respectful of his fellows, leaving the snark for stressful situations that would strip away any thin coating of respect and tolerance he's building up.

Tok'Ra Hostess
November 30th, 2005, 06:49 AM
While this will be off topic, I had to respond and say yes, I've read that novel too!!!:) I read it when I was in high school and I loved that story... I can't remember the title but I have never forgotten it because I liked that idea and I thought the ending was a little sad. Wow, this is amazing to meet someone else who has read this!



Singularity, by William Sleator. Thanks to EXCALI5530 for that info. At least three of us have read this book. :) I wonder if the ep writers had read it, too?

AutumnDream
November 30th, 2005, 07:59 AM
I really didn't notice the Capt Kirk routine much. I didn't think it was OTT and I'm probably in the minority but the ancient chick seemed nice and I liked the fact that Sheppard got to romance someone. I like seeing that with his character coz it made him happy.

Yeah, it's not Kirky much if they really know each other. I mean, it's not uncommon to kiss someone you like if you've been seeing them for three or more months. Especially if you live with them every day and have all that time to get close. I still would prefer if he got together with one of the Atlantis girls though. :p


I had read some comments in one particular thread here (won't name names but I'm never visiting that place again!) that have really upset me or gave me the impression that this episode was horrible. Suffice to say there were many negative comments made about one or two of the other characters... which really depressed me.

Don't mind those people! I get the feeling that some people here watch it just so they can pick it apart and bother the real fans. :rolleyes:


I just found it strange that in the whole of Atlantis, Weir is the only one who can read Ancient that well? You mean they don't have a linguist??? Her going on an away mission and stepping through the barrier was a bit of a risk - I mean she is the leader and something could have happened to her! I got the impression that maybe John's heroism and self-sacricie tendencies were rubbing off on her!;)

We know McKay has at least a decent understanding of Wraith, so I bet he can read some Ancient too. Weir is a really good linguist though, so it'd make sense for her to go. She probably insisted on going because it was John trapped in there. ;)


I almost thought they were going to do a group hug or something at the end when John conceded that he missed them. And of course, the ever lovely and patient Teyla was so sweet about it, calming telling him that he was not far from their minds and admonishing Ronon slightly.

Yeah! I love it when Teyla acts all sweet. She's so nice.


And I don't know if anyone else has commented on this, but I loved the soundtrack and the score. I'm one of those people who watch Atlantis and actually listen to the music.:)

Speaking of the music, I noticed with Epiphany that I always tend to hum the theme song when I'm watching. I try to notice the music more, considering that I'm a composer and symphonist, but I (embarrasingly) often forget because I'm watching "too hard". >.>
[/QUOTE]

prion
November 30th, 2005, 08:20 AM
I'm surprised that nobody mentioned what Shep said in one scene with Teera when they were taking a walk through the fields. I'm not 100% that I got the lines right though..

Teera: I'm glad I finally got you out, you've been alone in your room for so long.
Shep: I am being depressed.

I mean, did he really say that? If he did, it surprises me, because he isn't the person to admit feelings like that and it didn't sound like he was joking, either.

Anyway, I loved the scene, it's so sweet to see that Shep misses home (Atlantis)..

The look during his first meditation... I just wanna hug him, he looks so sad!
BTW: I think this might have been a scene that was originally set after a bad memory of Earth/Afghanistan. IMHO, they did shoot that stuff, but TPTB cut it out eventually because of time issues..

I'm prett sure he said "It's called being depressed," and considering he just got pole-axed with the news that he's trapped there until he dies or ascended, yes, that would be depressing for him. Not to mention he'd just recovered from being injured from the beast, it could make him depress.

And he's got no real support. Sure lots of happy we're going to ascended people but not his true friends, whom he feels has abandoned him at this point, although he doesnt know why. Yeah, he could get depressed.

As for sleepign through meditation, yes, he looked bored adn asleep. Can't blame him! ;)

prion
November 30th, 2005, 08:34 AM
Random thoughts (and pardon me if some have them have already been brought up):

I don’t understand why Sheppard went thru the portal in the first place. Especially after McKay made that joke about the atmosphere. And although McKay took the blame for Sheppard going in later on, again, like in Trinity, I don’t think it’s entirely his fault. Where is the caution that Sheppard should be displaying? Again, like in Trinity, there’s no need to rush. Come back with a real MALP.

the plot called for it, and well, it seemed safe. i think there comes a point where they have to charge ahead otherwise they'd never get anyway and the plot called for it ;)

McKay seemed extra snippy at Ronan in this part of episode. And that was mean of McKay to later call Ronan and Teyla, Conan and Xena. But not to their faces. I never noticed the similarity in those names before. I personally think those names are a compliment.

Mckay gets testy when under stress (remember "Siege III") I love the name he called them. ;)

I know McKay was only going for an approximation but why did McKay count off the time instead of using that very big watch he wears on his wrist? Why didn’t Teyla use her watch when she needed to be more precise? She’s got to have one as part of the team. And come on, why isn’t McKay carrying a spare camera battery with him?

Drama, counting out loud is dramatic, and mckay had to make room for powerbars, not useless spare batteries ;)

McKay is so frazzled he doesn’t think to write Sheppard a note. Not even after he thinks to write Sheppard a note.

Yup. well, second note would have meant nothing as Shep was gone but he was so worried he didn't think about it. Probably thikning about Shep bleeding to death or aging to retirement age.

Hey, when Sheppard leaves, why doesn’t he leave a note? He had plenty of rocks to use, but surely he must have had a pen and some paper on him with all those vest pockets.

Well, paper from the powerbar wrappers, but who knows on the pen? Eh, plot point. He did leave an arrow.


Why does Sheppard keep his beard when he was in the village. Just to be different?

Probably thought, why bother... figure he spent a few days in the cave hoping for rescue, wondering why his friends weren't rescuing him and then gets beaten up to hell and back, recovers, then told, oh hey, by the way, you're going to stay here the rest of your life! so, why bother. got depressed.

Is Elizabeth the only one who’s fluent in Ancient? Now that we have contact back Earth, can’t we get more linguists? I know Daniel is busy (and please, stay with SG1, please!) but there must be somebody comparable. It was nice to see her off planet, but it isn’t made clear why she’s the one that has to read the Ancient writing.

A reason for her to go offworld (fine by me) and heck, she may be very good at it. Why not?

As much as I like Beckett, was it really necessary for him to go? Yes, yes, I know, always send your best into danger.

No, not really, but why not:)

McKay actually admitted he can’t fly straight. But really, all he had to say was they needed a pilot because he was going to have to work with the equipment.

drama, and showing that McKay is rattled enough that he doesn't care about himself or what people think as he cares about rescuing sheppard.

Why was the Jumper flying so far away from the time dilation crater? Was McKay just being extra cautious to be outside its influence?

probably something about if you get too close and get sucked in you get torn apart... ;)

Looks like the same tables were used to eat here as in the episode Sanctuary. Which would make them all purpose sanctuary tables.

Yeah, they reuse a lot of stuff. Think SG1 has eaten at that table too ;)

How did Teyla sense that the beast was close? Just the lucky guess of a hunter? Or does her sensing ability extend to more than just the Wraith?

Could be her senses as a hunter. that's what i was figuring.

Looks like the team was walking thru the same field as in Duet. Which kind of looked like the same field as in Sanctuary. At least it looks like the same flowers as in Duet. I actually like that. When people complain that all the planets look alike, I think they should. Humans have a narrow range they can live in.

probably same field :) THey reuse a lot of stuff, just from different angles.

I liked the way the beast was portrayed. But, like Sheppard, I said “That’s it? That’s all it took?” when it disappeared. Why didn’t that girl foresee that?

I think the girl had foreseen it to a degree, but didn't let it slip. She could see up to a point, i think but not all the way, like htere were mental roadblocks and judging from the creation of the beast, there were.


Loved McKay’s line, “What’s with you and Ascended women?” And Sheppard’s shrug back. Must be an ATA gene thing.

Poor shep. ALl his girlfriends just go poof. Great line.

Yes, the math bugs me, too. If we say that the ratio is 1 to 240, then 1 hour equals 10 days. Six months is about 180 days, so it should have been about 18 hours and not “just a couple of hours” like Elizabeth says it was. But, are we using Earth days, Atlantis days, or Time Dilation planet days, which could be a faster rotation and have more days pass in less time?

Math isn't the writers' strength apparently...:o

I though this was nice staging: Sheppard asks, “Where the hell were you?” and the others line up to talk to him. The beast shows itself and while Sheppard is facing the right direction, everybody else has to turn around and look up. The coordination of all the actors was very good. Then Sheppard moves forward thru the line. Ronan follows, pulling out his sword out of the ground. Teyla and McKay also move forward, but Beckett and Weir stay put. I liked how Sheppard’s team all moved together to protect the others that don’t have much off world experience.

I really liked that scene, which also showed how frustrated Sheppard was at being, as far he knew, abandoned by his teammates on that planet. and yes, how Ronon just joined on the fight,w hcih fortunately they didn't have to do.

I think this episode has more logic holes than an episode normally does. I’m always willing to suspend belief for the sake of the show, if we learn something new, whether it be new tech or a new personal revelation for one of the characters. That didn't really happen here.

Haven't seen a single tv show youcouldn't punch holes through but yeah, the only personal revelation we really had was that sheppard had been scared of lighting as a kid but loves it now. I was hoping for more....

Hear that writers???

AutumnDream
November 30th, 2005, 09:17 AM
I don't think he called them Conan and Xena because of a name similarity. I think it was because:

Ronan: Big strong tough guy, was pretty barbaric when they met him
Conan: Big strong tough barbarian.

Xena: Never seen the show, but she's supposed to be a "warrior princess", right?
Teyla: Is the leader of a group of people, thus is "princess-like" in a way, and she sure is one hell of a warrior. :D

I think it was that sort of connection, but Conan and Ronan are very similar names.

KRiZ
November 30th, 2005, 09:38 AM
Yes, the math bugs me, too. If we say that the ratio is 1 to 240, then 1 hour equals 10 days. Six months is about 180 days, so it should have been about 18 hours and not “just a couple of hours” like Elizabeth says it was.

how about this for an explanation, maybe Elizabeth was trying to give john a stronger reason as to why they werent they sooner, it's called exagerrating, people do it all the time, not necessarily bad writing :rolleyes:

starfox
November 30th, 2005, 12:13 PM
Just finished watching this for the second time. I enjoyed it, there were some nice character moments and a bit of continuity from previous eps. Now, if we could fill in some plot holes and have an ending that's not quite as rushed or out of the blue, then we'd be good.

I also probably need to stop reading slash about 2 days before I watch a new ep, because I still had my slash glasses on for this, and it looked like Avard had a bit of a (by which I mean massive) crush on Shep. This is what fanfiction does to you, people.


Moments I enjoyed:

*Smart!Teyla. She made Rodney speechless with the math, and that made me happy, especially as I've been wishing for more Teyla-Rodney interaction.
And she called him Rodney, not Dr. McKay!

*TakeCharge!Rodney pretty much rocks my socks.

*Rodney admitting that the problem was his fault and giving Zelenka credit for the probe? Yayness.

*Sheppard just being ridiculously hot throughout the ep.

*Weir off-world. She's such a geek, truly. Her excitement over the Ancient writing (briefly) overriding her concern. Such a geek moment, and it showed the enthusiastic Weir that sometimes gets lost.

*Hedda. She was adorable without being annoying.

*Sheppard's frustration with the whole situation. Very realistic, very human.


Things that bugged me:

*How is Hedda the only kid, and how are all the other villagers reasonably attractive individuals in their 20s-30s? Was control of physical aging one of the first powers these people learned?

*Was Sheppard just being a bum, or did he actually adopt a community position?

And others probably to come.

buuzero
November 30th, 2005, 12:28 PM
I'm sorry, but this episode just didn't do it for me. Like some others have already said, it was just disappointing. Not much character development... not much plot development. And yeah, it is getting annoying how whenever they meet ancients, they are gone by the end of the episode. I actually fell asleep during this episode after he got to the village... I won't entirely blame the show however, I was watching at like 2:30am. It was good up until he went to the Ancient village, and the beast was super lame. The Conan/Xena line was funny though! All in all, I'd give the episode a 2 out of 5. From other comments in this thread, it sounds like the episode would have been better if they had not dropped some of Flannigan's original ideas (with Sheppard's backstory).





I get the feeling that they weren't joking when the team behind SG-1 made reference to correcting mistakes they made with SG-1 through SGA. :rolleyes: How many more episodes are going to be blatant, I mean blatant ripp-offs of SG-1 story lines! :eek: I get there are only so many ways to tell a story and that after 9 1/2 seasons of SG-1, repeating is going to happen but this is getting ridiculous and a little bit sad.


Hopefully just this one and Intruder.
>.>
<.<
>.>

Watch out, because Grace Under Pressure is coming soon :rolleyes:. It might be good though, and I'm sure it won't be as awful as the original Grace was.


Sorry, but I just had to... :P

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v719/Cynicat/gta_mckay_thumb.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v719/Cynicat/gta_mckay.jpg)
[click on thumbnail for full-size image. 34kb]
For me, this is the best thing to come out of the episode... the discussion that lead to this. Hilariously awesome!

Eoin
November 30th, 2005, 12:35 PM
I dont know if this has been mentioned in this thread already (too many posts to be looking through)

But anyway we now have proof that you dont need to die to ascend :)

Great ep :D

AutumnDream
November 30th, 2005, 01:24 PM
All in all, I'd give the episode a 2 out of 5. From other comments in this thread, it sounds like the episode would have been better if they had not dropped some of Flannigan's original ideas (with Sheppard's backstory).

Watch out, because Grace Under Pressure is coming soon :rolleyes:. It might be good though, and I'm sure it won't be as awful as the original Grace was.


For me, this is the best thing to come out of the episode... the discussion that lead to this. Hilariously awesome!

Yeah, it sounds like it Joe's original idea was better than what they maimed and moulded into this episode.

Grace Under Pressure can't be bad. It stars McKay. It's impossible for anything starring McKay to be bad. It would break the universe if he were not enjoyable to watch. :p

Yes, I hope every Atlantis fan on the internet sees that picture. :D

Shep'sSocks
November 30th, 2005, 02:25 PM
Yeah, it sounds like it Joe's original idea was better than what they maimed and moulded into this episode.

You mean, kind of like the way that bodies are shoved into body bags?


Grace Under Pressure can't be bad. It stars McKay. It's impossible for anything starring McKay to be bad. It would break the universe if he were not enjoyable to watch. :p

Yes, not even the presence of Carter could wreck it...

Callie
November 30th, 2005, 03:00 PM
Draft transcript is up:

http://www.brundle.free-online.co.uk/212_Epiphany.html

Jeffer
November 30th, 2005, 03:01 PM
Good ep but you could tell that the creature was the final part to ascension is was pretty obvious

Yeade
November 30th, 2005, 03:12 PM
I've finally watched the episode! Yay! And you guys have run away with the thread! So much to catch up on! <sobs> :p
I was impressed by how certain little details actually got acknowledged. Things like "damn I should have given him a note" and "this field must generate it's own seperate day/night cycle and everything". Just two little bits said in passing to show us that the story was aware of the issues in question.Yes, I agree. I've been reading reviews on LJ, and many of the running commentaries include people thinking "why didn't McKay send a note?" a few moments before McKay asks himself just that. These and the little touches of character continuity were much appreciated.

That said, Ouroboros, you weren't bothered by the not-so-mathematically-sound time dilation stuff or the, IMO, somewhat shaky resolution to the whole Beast plot? I figure you wouldn't care whether any backstory about Sheppard was revealed or not. :D
[Re: Sheppard's Ancient connection]
a) he's genetically an Ancient via freak mutation or eugenics
b) time-traveling Janus or another Ancient of your choice is somehow closely related to him
c) he was an Ascended Ancient but got booted out because of his smartass attitude, memory erased
d) some terrible plot twist I can't begin to describe involving fate, destiny, cosmic purposes, blahblahblah, and Atlantis
Yes! All of those things! A to D. ESPECIALLY D!Well, I can't see how it could be A or B and C at the same time, lol. You actually like D though? Personally, while I think it could be interesting, I'm also a bit wary of how TPTB would handle something like that and, yeah, it would be a bit cliched. Sheppard's got something going with the Ancients and Atlantis, to be sure, but the more interesting approach, I feel, would be to keep his presence in Pegasus a risk he took (though I'd be open to Sheppard never having found his place on Earth because he always felt like he didn't belong) that turned out better than he'd ever expected and have others (Pegasus natives, even the expedition members) think it smacks of destiny.

Now, because I can't hope to keep up with you guys, general and out-of-order comments about lots of stuff. ;)

Re: Sheppard

His abandonment issues weren't nearly as bad as I first assumed. Not that this in any way changes the fact that John Sheppard is a real headcase. :p

I tried to pay special attention to the passage of time for Sheppard, and it wasn't until he'd been left alone for two days that he began to doubt whether anyone was coming for him ("We don't leave people behind... right?!"). That he stayed in the cave for as long as he did (3-5 days) waiting for his team to come through before reluctantly leaving when dwindling supplies forced him to forage is his basic optimism and belief in people showing. However, at the same time, I think while Sheppard's optimism is very strong, it's also a brittle thing. Which is to say, when it breaks, it breaks hard.

He held on to his faith in his friends by the skin of his teeth until Avrid told him it was impossible to leave. That broke him hard.

Afterwards, he halfheartedly tried to join the community, searched for a means to get himself out, and wasted time. I'm not sure he knew what to do. He didn't want to Ascend with the hippies, he couldn't get back to Atlantis on his own, and his friends seemed to have all but abandoned him.

Sheppard did explore the planet (smart boy) but, reasonably, he didn't figure out he was stuck in a time warp. That he assumed within the first month that the expedition had given up on him despite (or because of?) his personal stance of never letting people go until he sees them dead himself (Ford comes to mind) still shows abandonment issues, but I think anyone would've eventually doubted given the circumstances. It's how easily John resigned himself to being alone that's telling.

Re: Weir

I figure a good number of the scientists know at least a smidgen of Ancient--seems like it would be useful when you're taking apart an Ancient city--and there's probably a team of linguists hiding somewhere in Atlantis.

Why did Weir go then?

Erm. I'm going to go with mcalex22, I think, and say Sheppard's self-sacrificing tendencies are beginning to rub off on her. Her and the rest of the expedition, lol. Only she can overrule everybody else.

Possibly she's also sick of watching her military commander go off and get himself almost killed over and over again, and she decided this time she would go in person to assure herself he's still alive after all. That she disregards her own safety and responsibilities is frustrating but human. Again, in my perfect world, half the expedition wanted to come along and help somehow because this was Sheppard, but Weir rightly drew the line there while allowing herself to go.

Actually, it's exactly this sort of reaction that makes Sheppard's brand of leadership both incredibly effective and terribly dangerous.

(Notice I deftly stirred clear of any ship implications. :rolleyes: )

Re: The Team

TEAM LOVE! :D

Like Drwho'srose, I think, I loved the interaction between Rodney and Ronon. The two seemingly most dissimilar members of the team are really scarily alike. They both know how to enjoy their food, they're both completely loyal to Sheppard and the team while being the least likely to say so as opposed to taking action, and they both react to bad situations by falling back on old patterns--Rodney reverts to being a bit of a jerk, and Ronon skips directly to the violence.

The fun, of course, is all in the fact that, despite how similar they are, Ronon and Rodney interact with the world very, very differently. :)

Tok'Ra Hostess, I think you were the one who mentioned McKay snarking in the opening scene. I thought it was rather cute myself. (Why'd you park the jumper so far away?! Didn't ask for a log! MALP on a stick! LOL!)

Let me explain. I think bickering has become the SOP of Sheppard's team. They head through the stargate, (more or less) boldly go where no one has gone before, and spend the vast majority of their time, when not getting into trouble, strolling through forests and fields (that bear a suspicious resemblance to British Columbia) and snarking at each other the entire time. I suspect it's mostly Sheppard and McKay with Ronon and Teyla, especially, looking on in some combination of amusement, amused incomprehension, and amused tolerance.

In short, I think these people know each other too well to take offense at your normal, everyday garden variety of snark. Just compare the team's interaction at the start of "Epiphany" with the trust-breaking moments of "Trinity."

Re: The Beast

After watching the episode, I definitely think the Beast is the manifestation of the villagers' fears about Ascension that they wouldn't admit or face. So, Drwho'srose, I think, the villagers weren't thick. Just in denial. Which is, IMO, actually easier to do the sharper you are because you're that much better at spinning believable excuses.

In this case, the villagers weren't ready to Ascend, and so they created the Beast (ah, the downside of having mysterious powers), possibly subconsciously, as something they could blame for their not Ascending yet. While intuition was probably telling them the Beast was of their own creation, the villagers couldn't face that, and so their heads stuck to the story that the Beast had to be defeated in order to achieve Ascension.

edit: Which is true, in a way, but not the way the villagers told Sheppard at first. And themselves, I think, until the end. And, yes, I bet this is the epiphany of the title.

Sheppard's face to the storm attitude shamed them and stripped their delusions away. Once they realized what they've been doing, for a community of psychics, it was easy enough to banish the Beast.


edit: tags

Callie
November 30th, 2005, 03:47 PM
Loved Rodney and Carson automatically stepping in front of Elizabeth to try and protect her against the Beast, though I have to wonder why she wasn’t armed and apparently hasn’t learned to fire a gun yet.

I was a little concerned at Carson describing his date as Lieutenant Cadman rather than Laura Cadman!

Favourite line (apart from the “MALP on a stick” one): Shep into radio: “I’m pretty sure you can’t hear me, but I don’t have a volleyball to talk to, so what the hell.”

Ronon and Teyla get knocked into the middle of next week by the Beast, and John falls off its back. The other three members of the team run to each of the downed members to check them. Carson picks up Ronon’s sword and sticks it point-first into the ground before checking if Ronon’s alright. Why?! Is this normal behaviour from a medical doctor?! I can think of no other reason why he would do this other than that the script said to do it so that Ronon didn’t have to bend all the way over to pick it up a minute or two later!

AutumnDream
November 30th, 2005, 04:30 PM
Maybe a doctor is supposed to eliminate any dangerous pointy objects so people don't get hurt any more? >.> (Weak explanation.)

I didn't really get how they interacted with the beast. Wasn't it just energy or something? And man, I wish that would have been done differently. Their fears could have manifested in any number of cool ways. Which makes me wonder, why would a culmination of fear-based energy make a stupid roaring noise? :p

Cynicat
November 30th, 2005, 04:31 PM
Like Drwho'srose, I think, I loved the interaction between Rodney and Ronon. The two seemingly most dissimilar members of the team are really scarily alike. They both know how to enjoy their food, they're both completely loyal to Sheppard and the team while being the least likely to say so as opposed to taking action, and they both react to bad situations by falling back on old patterns---Rodney reverts to being a bit of a jerk, and Ronon skips directly to the violence.

The fun, of course, is all in the fact that, despite how similar they are, Ronon and Rodney interact with the world very, very differently. :)

Wordy McWord. They'll snark until the cows come home, but can get along fine when they're both clearly focussed on the same goal (and on achieving it in the same way), as evidenced (IMHO) in this little exchange:

Rodney: Hey, we may even get a ZPM outta this. [pistol-finger with sound effect at Ronon]
Ronon: Now you're talkin'.

If nothing else, it was another great little character moment - something this ep certainly had no shortage of. McKay fans especially are being spoiled rotten in that regard (hey, I ain't complaining! :D )

DetriusXii
November 30th, 2005, 04:37 PM
I just saw the ep. It was okay viewing but nothing fancy.

The story reminded me of an existential SF novel I read in school about twins who found a shed inside which time went faster. One of the twins - the skinny, gentle, feminized, picked-on-by-his-big-athletic brother one - decided to spend the night inside the shed so that when he emerged he'd be a year older than his brother and of course, he grew into a real man. Anybody recognize it?

I read the book in grade 8. Apparently, the wormhole was connected to a garbage dump on an alien world and that's why odd trinkets kept on coming through the wormhole, right?

DetriusXii
November 30th, 2005, 04:41 PM
The writers are messing with continuity again. Once the ascended beings ascend, they're forced to follow Alteran rules of non-interference. So if McKay were to grab the ZPM, , he could have said "Bite me", take the ZPM, there would be nothing that the newly ascended could do. This noninterference rule is becoming inconsistent.

Willow'sCat
November 30th, 2005, 04:42 PM
I really didn't notice the Capt Kirk routine much. I didn't think it was OTT and I'm probably in the minority but the ancient chick seemed nice and I liked the fact that Sheppard got to romance someone. I like seeing that with his character coz it made him happy.Well basically every good looking chic he mets he ends up kissing or hugging or whatever, Capt Kirk was a lot like that god bless him. :D


I just found it strange that in the whole of Atlantis, Weir is the only one who can read Ancient that well? You mean they don't have a linguist??? There seemed no other way to include her in this episode so I guess TPTB had no choice I am glad she went off-world It was nice having the whole team together.


After watching the episode, I definitely think the Beast is the manifestation of the villagers' fears about Ascension that they wouldn't admit or face. So, Drwho'srose, I think, the villagers weren't thick. Just in denial. Which is, IMO, actually easier to do the sharper you are because you're that much better at spinning believable excuses.Yes but ten thousand years (of evolution) and no-one was a little bit suspicious? :S That is more denial then I like to think about. ;)

Willow'sCat
November 30th, 2005, 04:45 PM
The writers are messing with continuity again. Once the ascended beings ascend, they're forced to follow Alteran rules of non-interference. So if McKay were to grab the ZPM, , he could have said "Bite me", take the ZPM, there would be nothing that the newly ascended could do. This noninterference rule is becoming inconsistent.Elizabeth would have slapped him silly, didn't you see the dirty look she gave him. :D Although I hate to admit it I thought the same thing "what could they do?" :p

Agent_Dark
November 30th, 2005, 05:26 PM
Anyone notice the set re-use?

The outside of the cave where the portal is, was the cave that Ronan was hiding at in Runner. And the hut that Sheppard wakes up in was the same hut that Mitchell wakes up in Babylon :)

AutumnDream
November 30th, 2005, 05:39 PM
I actually didn't notice at all. >.>

And McKay sometimes is blind to everything else when he gets excited about some bit of technology, but I really think he wouldn't have taken it if someone pointed out to him he'd be destroying what is possibly the last remaining sanctuary from the Wraith, and the only hope millions of people have to ascend. If he really was going to, Weir certainly would have "slapped him silly". :D

Shep'sSocks
November 30th, 2005, 06:03 PM
Anyone notice the set re-use?

The outside of the cave where the portal is, was the cave that Ronan was hiding at in Runner. And the hut that Sheppard wakes up in was the same hut that Mitchell wakes up in Babylon :)

Because they spent all their money on the amazing beast special effects, they had none left for their set.

the fifth man
November 30th, 2005, 07:23 PM
I get the general idea "The Hive" was much better than this one. But hey, any new ep is good compared to the big nothing I have. Can't wait until January so I can actually see these.

Ouroboros
November 30th, 2005, 07:34 PM
I've finally watched the episode! Yay! And you guys have run away with the thread! So much to catch up on! <sobs> :p

Yes, I agree. I've been reading reviews on LJ, and many of the running commentaries include people thinking "why didn't McKay send a note?" a few moments before McKay asks himself just that. These and the little touches of character continuity were much appreciated.

That said, Ouroboros, you weren't bothered by the not-so-mathematically-sound time dilation stuff or the, IMO, somewhat shaky resolution to the whole Beast plot? I figure you wouldn't care whether any backstory about Sheppard was revealed or not. :D



Good call on the backstory, I didn't really care no, mainly because I was never expecting anything like that to happen. The ending was a little easy I suppose but I was still on an emotional high from the story assuming I was smart enough to think of giving the guy a note that it didn't really bother me.

It wasn't a perfect episode by any means but it never insulted my intelligence like the hive did so it doesn't really earn any spite from me. The ending was actually somewhat unexpected to because I was actually expecting the thing to be a new type of Wraith. While I probably would have liked that better it would have been predictable and the "it's our fear" thing wasn't really. The beat being their manifested fear even sort of makes sense from a literary perspective. The beast would only prey on those who ventured out, away from the safty of the famliar, from the settlement. This paralleled it to their fear of ascencion, of the unknown's it would bring which was what was holding them back from achieving it. It was a nice tidy little bit of metaphor that you don't get often on Stargate Atlantis. I liked it.

I also liked how the new fangled probe thing that McKay pulled out of his arse simply failed outright to do them any good. In some lesser episodes that device would have been made up on the spot like it was but then also used to save the day by resolving the core conflict. That didn't happen here though, the probe simply got destroyed without helping them at all.

As far as the math adding up I think it's a pretty shaky complaint to make. No one ever specified any hard numbers that I can remember and the time dilation ratio got figured out by Teyla and McKay verbally counting out one end of it. Not exactly precise scientific measurment going on here. It would have made less sense if their estimates HAD been perfectly accurate.

AutumnDream
November 30th, 2005, 09:12 PM
n some lesser episodes that device would have been made up on the spot like it was but then also used to save the day by resolving the core conflict.


You must hate MacGyver. :p

Ouroboros
November 30th, 2005, 10:35 PM
Nah MacGyver was cool as hell because a lot of the time that **** would actually work!

One of my friends in junior high was a bigtime MacGyver fan and actually proved this to me a few times. My young mind was blown to pieces, pieces I tell you!

Easter Lily
December 1st, 2005, 01:28 AM
I really didn't notice the Capt Kirk routine much. I didn't think it was OTT and I'm probably in the minority but the ancient chick seemed nice and I liked the fact that Sheppard got to romance someone. I like seeing that with his character coz it made him happy.
I didn't mind it as much this time round... Tolerable compared to Sanctuary. :p At least he didn't lose his capacity to think on this occasion and there was no Rodney McKay nagging him even if he was directing his energies barking orders at "Conan" and "Xena". But what is it about ascended women that they're so dull?! Something about being on the path, I imagine. :p She just lacked any "zing"... the little girl came across much more spirited.
Unlike Sanctuary, this episode kept its sense of humour and Sheppard wasn't portrayed as a complete "himbo".


I had read some comments in one particular thread here (won't name names but I'm never visiting that place again!) that have really upset me or gave me the impression that this episode was horrible. Suffice to say there were many negative comments made about one or two of the other characters... which really depressed me.
Probably just a lot of upset people, not getting the Sheppard backstory they were hoping for. I wouldn't worry about it.

Naughtrish
December 1st, 2005, 04:25 AM
How/when did Ronon get his sword back? He didn't have it with him at the end of The Hive. He had in in Lost Boys though. It was still on the ship when it blew up. Does he have a spare? He only had one with him in Runner :P

He had a spare one hidden in his hair :p

Sorry if someone said it before... I'm catching up :)

Tok'Ra Hostess
December 1st, 2005, 07:44 AM
I read the book in grade 8. Apparently, the wormhole was connected to a garbage dump on an alien world and that's why odd trinkets kept on coming through the wormhole, right?

Yep, that's the one. And it had a self-sacrificing snake in it.
And the event horizon was in the sink. :D I gotta find that book again....

Naughtrish
December 1st, 2005, 10:58 AM
Stupid question of the day.
If the "beast" was the sum of all their fears, why it attacked Sheppard? He clearly didn't fear it the same way than the others. So it pushed the ascending ones to prevent them from ascending/escaping, but as Sheppard wasn't one of them it hurt him? How someone else's fear can hurt you if you don't know about that fear?
Signed: Lost in rhetorics :D

prion
December 1st, 2005, 01:26 PM
He had a spare one hidden in his hair :p

Sorry if someone said it before... I'm catching up :)

He didn't have it when he left "Hive," so I suspect that, gasp, he went off-world and got himself a new one! :)

prion
December 1st, 2005, 01:28 PM
Stupid question of the day.
If the "beast" was the sum of all their fears, why it attacked Sheppard? He clearly didn't fear it the same way than the others. So it pushed the ascending ones to prevent them from ascending/escaping, but as Sheppard wasn't one of them it hurt him? How someone else's fear can hurt you if you don't know about that fear?
Signed: Lost in rhetorics :D

Well, someone else's fears can hurt you if they turn into a physical manifestation capable of shredding your clothing and clawing up your skin. Watch the classic The Forbidden Planet. This critter was a scaled down version of the monster from the id. I suspect it didn't hurt anybody in the cloister because subconsciously it would be hurting themselves, but Sheppard was a stranger so maybe he was more fair game?

Sort of ironic that there they are spouting that violence will hurt their chance to ascend, so they channel their violent tendencies and thoughts into the beast.

prion
December 1st, 2005, 01:33 PM
I didn't mind it as much this time round... Tolerable compared to Sanctuary. :p At least he didn't lose his capacity to think on this occasion and there was no Rodney McKay nagging him even if he was directing his energies barking orders at "Conan" and "Xena". But what is it about ascended women that they're so dull?! Something about being on the path, I imagine. :p She just lacked any "zing"... the little girl came across much more spirited.
Unlike Sanctuary, this episode kept its sense of humour and Sheppard wasn't portrayed as a complete "himbo".

Probably just a lot of upset people, not getting the Sheppard backstory they were hoping for. I wouldn't worry about it.

Think the backstory theory came from writers, etc. saying 'you'll find out this' and well, we found out he was scared of lightning as a kid, but I really hoping for tidbits from his adult life. Oh well.

Aw, poor Shep. Those ascended women are like moths to a flame and then go all glowy and leave him. Meanwhile, it's not like McKay has done much better (remember "The Brotherhood") and we don't know if he's dating whatsername from "Duet." Beckett seems to be the only one who IS getting reliable dates :)

I really haven't seen much 'Kirk' in Sheppard myself.

Yeah, ascended folk are pretty dull. The kid (Hetta) was the liveiest of the bunch.

PartyLikeIts1984
December 1st, 2005, 04:50 PM
This is how the episode broke down for me. I'm too lazy to check up on every single post, only the last five or so pages, so if I repeat anything, feel free to yell at me. Okay, that was a joke. Don't yell, really.

1. Personally I was a little pissed at the Ancient Chick for not letting them take the ZPM. Who's going to use it? It seems like a cheap way to Ascend. Sit around meditating in safety and then go all glowy. I agree with Shep; you shouldn't Ascend to a higher plane when you haven't even experienced the one you're on. The Atlanteans need a ZPM more than the Pegasus Galaxy need a place for people to go and get the Cliff Notes version of Ascension.

2. I loved seeing Translator!Weir. That was one of the hi-lights for me, seeing her be all pro-active instead of sitting tight and keeping the homefires burining.

3. I don't like being yanked around with Shep's backstory. I was really looking forward to seeing that in the second season, and there hasn't been any for any of the characters.

4. I seem to be in the minority, but I see very little comparison between "100 Days" and "Epiphany" other than the aging. First of all, in "100 Days" the community was there for entirely sinister reasons, not so with "Epiphany." Not to mention there was nothing dangerous about the "100 Days" place other than the nanite, no real fightable enemy. In "100 Days" there is drugged!sex that starts the whole mess, in "Epiphany" it's a portal. Other than the obvious plot differences, the characters deal with entirely different emotions. For O'Neill it's impending death, for Shep it's abandonment. O'Neill knows that nothing can be done and says goodbye to his team, while Shep has no closure whatsoever and thinks that they just up and left him. Then there's the fact that O'Neill gets very, very old and is dying slowly, while Shep has this weird need to get his ass kicked by a physical manifestation of a bunch of wimpy Ancient X-Men's fears.

I mean, I seriously see very few connections.

5. Um...that's it really. Wait! No, I have to add that I like the obvious charcter development in McKay, and the way they're showing how the team is bonding. Also, props to Ronan. I was scared I'd never be able to see him as anything other than Not!Ford, but his character is developing and growing and all that interesting stuff that characters do on good TV shows. That makes me very happy, I must say.

And also, is it Kirkian if Shep actually knows the girl for more than a few hours? I mean, she had the whole "native alien woman" thing going for her, but Kirk usually barely knew the name of his alien booty.


Oh, and:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v82/preswall2024/Gatrium/98e51b33.png
Yeah. 'Nuff said.

Michelle05
December 1st, 2005, 04:56 PM
I so loved Rodney in this episode. His fast talking really came in handy; every rushed syllable as he tried to explain what was going on and get the rescue underway saved John hours, I'm sure. :) I liked that he admitted responsibility for not noticing the time dilation and then took command of the situation, so determined to fix his mistake and get John back alive. I loved his bossing everyone around, and the "Xena and Conan" line was a classic.

The plot was tight and logical to me if you accept that such things are possible. The only thing I didn't get out of it was any real angst on Sheppard's part. He was annoyed and bored, but I wish more had been made of his doubts about whether his team would really come for him. Also he reacted with anger when they found him, and we never got to see relief or joy, or sadness that his sort-of girlfriend had just left him.

But otherwise I liked it a lot and will re-watch for sure.

lily
December 1st, 2005, 05:38 PM
4. I seem to be in the minority, but I see very little comparison between "100 Days" and "Epiphany" other than the aging. First of all, in "100 Days" the community was there for entirely sinister reasons, not so with "Epiphany." Not to mention there was nothing dangerous about the "100 Days" place other than the nanite, no real fightable enemy. In "100 Days" there is drugged!sex that starts the whole mess, in "Epiphany" it's a portal. Other than the obvious plot differences, the characters deal with entirely different emotions. For O'Neill it's impending death, for Shep it's abandonment. O'Neill knows that nothing can be done and says goodbye to his team, while Shep has no closure whatsoever and thinks that they just up and left him. Then there's the fact that O'Neill gets very, very old and is dying slowly, while Shep has this weird need to get his ass kicked by a physical manifestation of a bunch of wimpy Ancient X-Men's fears.

I mean, I seriously see very few connections.
You're talking about season 1's "Brief Candle" (http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s1/108.shtml). That's the one with the aging Jack, etc. We're talking about "A hundred days" (http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s3/317.shtml), from season 3. The one that leaves Jack stranded off-world .
:D

Yeade
December 1st, 2005, 06:46 PM
A real quick reply to some stuff.
I didn't really get how they interacted with the beast. Wasn't it just energy or something? And man, I wish that would have been done differently. Their fears could have manifested in any number of cool ways. Which makes me wonder, why would a culmination of fear-based energy make a stupid roaring noise? :pROTFLMAO!

Anyways, I handwaved all that as being weird things that happen when you get together a community of freaky psychics and collectively manifest their fears about going to a higher plane of existence. Whatever. There's no real way to extrapolate, I think, how exactly the Beast was created. Heck, it could be a collective hallucination, similar to the nanovirus-induced visions in "Hot Zone" except the villagers' telekinetic powers made it possible to physically interact with it.

Again. Whatever. :rolleyes:
[Re: The Beast's origins] Yes but ten thousand years (of evolution) and no-one was a little bit suspicious? :S That is more denial then I like to think about. :rolleyes:The people who figured it out Ascended? And didn't bother to share their revelation with anyone? :p
It wasn't a perfect episode by any means but it never insulted my intelligence like the hive did so it doesn't really earn any spite from me. The ending was actually somewhat unexpected to because I was actually expecting the thing to be a new type of Wraith.You know, it's downright fascinating to read everyone's reactions to the episode. I understand that many thought the Beast being a manifestation of the villagers' fear was pretty cliched.
As far as the math adding up I think it's a pretty shaky complaint to make. No one ever specified any hard numbers that I can remember and the time dilation ratio got figured out by Teyla and McKay verbally counting out one end of it. Not exactly precise scientific measurment going on here. It would have made less sense if their estimates HAD been perfectly accurate.There were hard numbers--Teyla (incorrectly, I think) calculated a ratio--and soft numbers--"a few hours" or similar from Weir and "six months" from Sheppard.

Anyways, the whole thing begs the question of why nobody tried to make more accurate measurements of the time dilation when there were watches on hand. Even if that's put off as an (understandable, IMO) oversight given the rush-rush-rush circumstances, all the figures dropped here and there should've at least roughly agreed. And any math done in estimation should've been correct and self-consistent.

Ah, well. I'll just chalk it up to SGA having time issues and generally not being able to get the science right.

(I'm watching SGA with a physicist friend of mine, and indeed she spends a great deal of time yelling "LIES, LIES, LIES!" Can't wait until she gets to "Trinity," exotic particles, and the laws of the universe breaking down. I imagine the biologists have the same trouble dealing with... well, everything Beckett does.)
The only thing I didn't get out of it was any real angst on Sheppard's part. He was annoyed and bored, but I wish more had been made of his doubts about whether his team would really come for him. Also he reacted with anger when they found him, and we never got to see relief or joy, or sadness that his sort-of girlfriend had just left him.Well, Sheppard admitted he kind of missed the others. So long as he has an audience, I think that's about all we're going to get out of him. Really, he spends an inordinate amount of time deflecting people with superficial interest and a smirk. I bet the villagers got only the following out of him in six months: he has friends elsewhere that he cares about, he thinks meditation is boring and doesn't care much for Ascension, he enjoys jogging and doing menial work, and he found thunderstorms scary when he was kid. That last one ranks right up there with fear of clowns, love of ferris wheels, football, and things that go fast in terms of self-disclosure. :p


edit: tags

Michelle05
December 1st, 2005, 06:56 PM
Really, he spends an inordinate amount of time deflecting people with superficial interest and a smirk. I bet the villagers got only the following out of him in six months: he has friends elsewhere that he cares about, he thinks meditation is boring and doesn't care much for Ascension, he enjoys jogging and doing menial work, and he found thunderstorms scary when he was kid. That last one ranks right up there with fear of clowns, love of ferris wheels, football, and things that go fast in terms of self-disclosure. :p

This is true. He's just not an angsty character. Jack doesn't like to talk about himself either, but the reluctance appears rooted in pain, not simple flippancy. With Sheppard you're left wondering if anything unpleasant ever touched him deeply. I'm not even sure the clown thing was for real!

SGalisa
December 1st, 2005, 07:10 PM
ooo! snippet "Epiphany" pics... from one who can't see the ep yet, likes!! :) nice boots!


Originally posted by prion:
I really haven't seen much 'Kirk' in Sheppard myself.okay, that makes two of us... as I mentioned previously and been believing in the following statement for a long while, now:

Originally posted by SGalisa:
Shep may have a magnetic personality (attracting the girls in more than one way), but he's still not Kirk. He's more like Spock (but with more personality spunk and *brains* in the MENSA ability area. Kirk was too dumb to figure that stuff out...) ;)Kirk always gave those *dumb* looks whenever Spock started calculating, as if saying "right Spock, whatever you say..." ...Kirk couldn't compute (calculate) that fast. ;)

AutumnDream
December 1st, 2005, 07:59 PM
I've checked a fair amount of cool sciene stuff in Atlantis against encyclopedias and it all seems to check out fine, except the things that lean more towards the "fiction" part of "sciene fiction". :p

Sheppard... hmm... I wouldn't be surprised if he was actually scared of clowns. I would be equally unsurprised, though, if he was just pulling funny stuff off the top of his mind.

PartyLikeIts1984
December 1st, 2005, 08:46 PM
You're talking about season 1's "Brief Candle" (http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s1/108.shtml). That's the one with the aging Jack, etc. We're talking about "A hundred days" (http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s3/317.shtml), from season 3. The one that leaves Jack stranded off-world .
:D

I'm sorry, yeah...I was trying to be sarcastic and I failed.

Ouroboros
December 1st, 2005, 11:26 PM
You know, it's downright fascinating to read everyone's reactions to the episode. I understand that many thought the Beast being a manifestation of the villagers' fear was pretty cliched.

It pretty much is since the whole manifest fear thing has been done to death in sci-fi but the way the plot set it up you didn't really see it going in that direction or at least I didn't. Like I mentioned before to there was also the elements of metaphor which was like 10,000 volts to the nads for me in terms of how shocking it was to see something even that deep on Stargate Atlantis. Maybe it was accidental, just something I'm reading too much into?


There were hard numbers---Teyla (incorrectly, I think) calculated a ratio---and soft numbers---"a few hours" or similar from Weir and "six months" from Sheppard.

All those numbers were derived by someone going 1,2,3 and then comapring that to the time on the recording devices though. It was bound to be off by some margin since people can't count seconds with the same precision a machine does.


Anyways, the whole thing begs the question of why nobody tried to make more accurate measurements of the time dilation when there were watches on hand. Even if that's put off as an (understandable, IMO) oversight given the rush-rush-rush circumstances, all the figures dropped here and there should've at least roughly agreed. And any math done in estimation should've been correct and self-consistent.

It wasn't really necessary since they already had a pretty good idea of what the ratio was. A precise measurment just would have been a pointless waste of time they didn't have.


(I'm watching SGA with a physicist friend of mine, and indeed she spends a great deal of time yelling "LIES, LIES, LIES!" Can't wait until she gets to "Trinity," exotic particles, and the laws of the universe breaking down. I imagine the biologists have the same trouble dealing with... well, everything Beckett does.)

Beckett had me wanting to strangle him for his repeated insistance that the Wraith are more genetically insect than human and I'm not anything close to a biologist. I guess you missed the knock down drag out of a thread we had over that particular point of needlessly injected scientific idiocy.:eek:

Easter Lily
December 2nd, 2005, 01:27 AM
This is true. He's just not an angsty character. Jack doesn't like to talk about himself either, but the reluctance appears rooted in pain, not simple flippancy. With Sheppard you're left wondering if anything unpleasant ever touched him deeply. I'm not even sure the clown thing was for real!
I believe the writing/direction had a large part to play there... The whole sequence of Sheppard being stuck in purgatory was done very haphazardly... in flashes of sequences. Time moved too quickly to allow for contemplation and hence, diminishing any emotional punch it could have had. In the case of A Hundred Days or Inner Light (ST:TNG), the writers/director took their time... they dwelt on the relationships, on the character. Epiphany, on the hand, was all about movement of time happening much more quickly within the sanctum and sacrificed character development there for the sake of keeping pace with events on the other side of the portal.
This is why I prefer The Hive... because it took its time with the characters... it allowed the audience to see the characters from a different angle while slowing down the movement of time.

Shep'sSocks
December 2nd, 2005, 01:28 AM
This is true. He's just not an angsty character. Jack doesn't like to talk about himself either, but the reluctance appears rooted in pain, not simple flippancy. With Sheppard you're left wondering if anything unpleasant ever touched him deeply. I'm not even sure the clown thing was for real!

Oooh, so don't agree with this. He doesn't tend to show it but it's all internal. Remember, this is the guy who conjured up dead people in Home. But do come on over to the Sheppard Appreciation and Discussion thread for a chat. Wouldn't mind hearing your reasoning. :)

Shep'sSocks
December 2nd, 2005, 01:33 AM
I believe the writing/direction had a large part to play there... The whole sequence of Sheppard being stuck in purgatory was done very haphazardly... in flashes of sequences. Time moved too quickly to allow for contemplation and hence, diminishing any emotional punch it could have had. In the case of A Hundred Days or Inner Light (ST:TNG), the writers/director took their time... they dwelt on the relationships, on the character. Epiphany, on the hand, was all about movement of time happening much more quickly within the sanctum and sacrificed character development there for the sake of keeping pace with events on the other side of the portal.
This is why I prefer The Hive... because it took its time with the characters... it allowed the audience to see the characters from a different angle while slowing down the movement of time.

I think the entire episode should have been on Sheppard in the cave without the sundry wannabee ascendees. All the cave stuff with him talking to his radio was fabulous. Sheppard angst, in cave, flashbacks. Wouldn't that have been splendid?

caty
December 2nd, 2005, 01:38 AM
Think the backstory theory came from writers, etc. saying 'you'll find out this' and well, we found out he was scared of lightning as a kid, but I really hoping for tidbits from his adult life. Oh well.





No, if you watch an interview with Joe here on Gateworld (I think it was in april), he explicitly stated that there will be backstory in 'Epiphany' dealing with his time in Afghanistan..

They probably even shot it, but it didn't make the final cut..

I would really, really like to know what Joe thinks about how the episode turned out.

BTW: After I've watched it s third time, I enjoyed 'Epiphany'.. Think I finally might have gotten over my disappointment that there wasn't any backstory and the lack of after-whump scenes *evil*

Needless to say that Joe was absolutely fabulous again, is that man real?

caty
December 2nd, 2005, 01:40 AM
I think the entire episode should have been on Sheppard in the cave without the sundry wannabee ascendees. All the cave stuff with him talking to his radio was fabulous. Sheppard angst, in cave, flashbacks. Wouldn't that have been splendid?

OMG, that would have been perfect! Talk about character development...

Easter Lily
December 2nd, 2005, 01:45 AM
I think the entire episode should have been on Sheppard in the cave without the sundry wannabee ascendees. All the cave stuff with him talking to his radio was fabulous. Sheppard angst, in cave, flashbacks. Wouldn't that have been splendid?
You know me... I won't disagree there... :D I love onscreen claustrophobia...
I don't mind sundry wannabee ascendees (with a bit more spark please) running back and forth from the cave trying to feed him and persuade him to go ascending...
Angsty Sheppard is always good... :p :D

Shep'sSocks
December 2nd, 2005, 01:51 AM
No, if you watch an interview with Joe here on Gateworld (I think it was in april), he explicitly stated that there will be backstory in 'Epiphany' dealing with his time in Afghanistan..

They probably even shot it, but it didn't make the final cut..

I would really, really like to know what Joe thinks about how the episode turned out.

I'm guessing that we're never going to find out.


BTW: After I've watched it s third time, I enjoyed 'Epiphany'.. Think I finally might have gotten over my disappointment that there wasn't any backstory and the lack of after-whump scenes *evil*

I've watched it several times up to the dread beast bit and it's great. After that, I'm a bit 'meh' about it.


Needless to say that Joe was absolutely fabulous again, is that man real?

With that hair? :P

Unamed
December 2nd, 2005, 04:55 AM
Could someone tell me what day new eps air in canada?

ToasterOnFire
December 2nd, 2005, 06:07 AM
Wow, Ronan got to use his sword! And here I thought it was just to pick up chicks. :D

I was a bit worried after reading early reviews here, but I ended up actually liking this ep more than Hive. The beast was rather unimpressive though. I didn't go in expecting any Shep backstory so I wasn't disappointed in that area. The alien gal of the week was much better than Chaya and I saw her relationship with Shep as more mututal and less her flinging herself at him. Rodney stole the show - I always enjoy seeing a cranky, under-pressure Rodney and I thought his admittances that he couldn't fly the PJ well and that the idea was really Zelenka's were nice bits of character development. Ronan and Teyla were great, though I am getting a bit sick of seeing them together all the time...

Best line of the ep - "I didn't ask for a log!" :D


(I'm watching SGA with a physicist friend of mine, and indeed she spends a great deal of time yelling "LIES, LIES, LIES!" Can't wait until she gets to "Trinity," exotic particles, and the laws of the universe breaking down. I imagine the biologists have the same trouble dealing with... well, everything Beckett does.)
Indeed. Magic retroviral therapies and chopping out huge chunks of DNA to turn a wraith back into a human, oh my! Ignorance is truly bliss when watching most sci-fi. :D

majortrip
December 2nd, 2005, 06:45 AM
I think the entire episode should have been on Sheppard in the cave without the sundry wannabee ascendees. All the cave stuff with him talking to his radio was fabulous. Sheppard angst, in cave, flashbacks. Wouldn't that have been splendid?
I wholeheartedly agree with you here. The ascendees weren't that interesting to me at all- they were almost a distraction. I, too, have watched it a third time, and by far the very best parts were Sheppard's.

This ancient chick didn't bother me in regards to Sheppard, but she was boring. Nice, but boring.

Michelle05
December 2nd, 2005, 08:09 AM
Oooh, so don't agree with this. He doesn't tend to show it but it's all internal. Remember, this is the guy who conjured up dead people in Home. But do come on over to the Sheppard Appreciation and Discussion thread for a chat. Wouldn't mind hearing your reasoning. :)
I'll come over and have a lurk; maybe you'll convert me. I would love to see more raw angst in Sheppard than I have. I've been using fan fic for that :-)

Erised
December 2nd, 2005, 08:16 AM
If you ask me, those people's excuse for not ascending was very, very, VERY LAME! :D

AutumnDream
December 2nd, 2005, 11:14 AM
Indeed. Magic retroviral therapies and chopping out huge chunks of DNA to turn a wraith back into a human, oh my! Ignorance is truly bliss when watching most sci-fi. :D

Read this! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrovirus) Just the first paragraph should be enough to make anyone understand how Beckett's retrovirus isn't an impossibility, especially considering the advanced ancient resources on biology he has at his disposal.

Linzi
December 2nd, 2005, 12:23 PM
I would love to see more raw angst in Sheppard than I have. I've been using fan fic for that :-)

You're not the only one.....;)

Yeade
December 2nd, 2005, 12:42 PM
[Sheppard]'s just not an angsty character. Jack doesn't like to talk about himself either, but the reluctance appears rooted in pain, not simple flippancy. With Sheppard you're left wondering if anything unpleasant ever touched him deeply. I'm not even sure the clown thing was for real!That's... not exactly what I meant. I see Sheppard's flippancy as his way of dissociating from anything and everything bad that's ever happened to him. It seems like nothing's ever touched him deeply because he internalizes all his darker emotions in some out of the way place where he doesn't have to deal with them. This is not the best way to resolve pain, to say the least (more like a non-way), and I think it explains Sheppard's occasional crazy! moments--he can't contain his emotions and cracks spectacularly.

The clown thing and, for that matter, nearly every other conversation Sheppard's ever had never fails to impress me with how incredibly deflective he is. He's attractive (though I don't think he quite believes this himself, only realizes and uses its effect on people) and charming and probably leaves all the folks he talks to with the impression that they know him well when he hasn't given away much, if any, revealing personal information.

The phrase "drawing blood from a stone" comes to mind. :p

At any rate, my (long-winded) point is that while he may have deep pains, Sheppard isn't likely to ever let those show unless under extreme stress, pain, or threat of death. And even then, there can't be too many witnesses or he'll probably manage to keep his head together out of some sense of responsibility to others.

And I second Shep'sSocks's invitation to come over to the Sheppard character discussion thread! We have cookies! ;)
All those numbers were derived by someone going 1,2,3 and then comapring that to the time on the recording devices though. It was bound to be off by some margin since people can't count seconds with the same precision a machine does.You misunderstand, I think. I don't mind that Teyla and McKay estimated. No, it bothers me that Teyla screwed up her math while estimating, and that the estimates don't even remotely agree with time statements from the characters. If Teyla says 3 seconds equates with 12 minutes (720 seconds), then the ratio is 240 to 1. Not 250 to 1. And there's not even an excuse to round!

Another example: Weir says a few or several hours passed. This means more than two hours but likely less than ten because most people will note the passage of that much time differently. (By saying "ten hours" usually.) Taking ten as the upper limit anyways, basic multiplication, with the correct 240 to 1 estimated ratio of time dilation, means 2400 hours for Sheppard. How does that translate to "six months"? I mean, by any standard? Earth's doesn't work, and Atlantis apparently has longer days ("Runner"). Sheppard switched to the planet's time? And the planet had really short days or months? :rolleyes:
[Timing with watches] wasn't really necessary since [McKay et al.] already had a pretty good idea of what the ratio was. A precise measurment just would have been a pointless waste of time they didn't have.Right. I did note that McKay and co. probably forgot about their watches in the rush, but how long do you think it takes to glance down at a watch and track the second hand, Ouroboros? I'm just wondering. :p
The alien gal of the week was much better than Chaya and I saw her relationship with Shep as more mututal and less her flinging herself at him.I finally got the chance to watch the much reviled "Sanctuary" recently and, er, Chaya wasn't so bad, really. The attraction was mutual; after all, Chaya left her charges for the first time in Lord only knows how long to spend more time with John, who in turn obviously wanted her to accept his offer to visit Atlantis. Sheppard's relationship with Teer had time to develop--a traditional courtship, if you will, only with psychic visions and all--while his thing for Chaya was puppy love.

AutumnDream, are we talking the ATA gene therapy or the Wraith retrovirus? The basic idea of the first, I think, is pretty sound. It skimps on the details, but that's to be expected when there's next to nothing in canon about the Ancient gene. This LJ post (http://www.livejournal.com/users/nuhiep/2019.html), I think, is a pretty good discussion of the topic.

The thing that breaks my brain in regards to the Wraith retrovirus is that, not only did it not do what it was supposed to in Ellia, but it did something completely different in Sheppard. That is, it enhanced the aspects of Ellia's DNA that were Iratus, then added those elements to Sheppard's (speculation aside) human DNA. Oookay then... :p


edit: tags

SGalisa
December 2nd, 2005, 02:23 PM
haven't seen the ep yet, can't until Jan/2006... but I have a question:
would someone please describe what was going on with Shep's hands and body's reaction vs. his mind - that his physical and mental entities were experiencing some sort of time reaction shift?
thanks! :)

AutumnDream
December 2nd, 2005, 02:25 PM
The prototype retrovirus Ellia took was probably an early version that didn't have the Wraith RNA viral part removed yet, or Carson hasnt figured out how to isolate it. It probably injected a great deal of wraith cells into her already wraithy cells, causing the mutation PAST the bug-ness of usual Wraith. Of course, he wouldn't have removed the multiplying part from the virus either, so when a small amount got into Sheppard's system, it copied itself and made him "convert". This would also explain why it only took a short time for Ellia to totally lose it as opposed to the longer time it took for Shep. She took so much that it didn't have trouble delivering to all her cells, but the small amount John got had to work harder to get widespread cellular penetration. Another reason could be that wraith immune systems don't recognize external wraith DNA as foreign genetic material, so Sheppard was probably quite a bit more resistant than she was.

Yeade
December 2nd, 2005, 03:31 PM
Well, that sounds good... :p

Frankly, I have only the most basic knowledge of biology and, specifically, genetics. All I know is that aspects of the Wraith retrovirus, including the one I mentioned, didn't click for me and others. Possibly this is because the writers left a lot of holes for us viewers to fill in the development and workings of the thing.
would someone please describe what was going on with Shep's hands and body's reaction vs. his mind - that his physical and mental entities were experiencing some sort of time reaction shift?Are you referring to when Sheppard first got sucked into the portal? As I understand it, the process hurt him because he crossed the threshold slowly, resisting and later being pulled back by Ronon and Teyla. This way, his body noticeably experienced the difference in time flow as opposed to the team quickly stepping through later.


edit: reply to SGalisa

AutumnDream
December 2nd, 2005, 05:17 PM
Since every retrovirus has a genetic "compatibility" with a certain type of cell, and then infects it to multiply itself, then destroys the target cell when it's done, I think Beckett is basically making a Wraith retrovirus that contains aggressive viral human RNA. It'll navigate the wraith's system, implanting itself in every wraith cell, send a lot more human DNA out into the wraith, and then destroy that cell. It seems almost perfect. That's how Shep was cured, right? Like Beckett said,



BECKETT: [cutting off Doctor Biro before she starts speaking again] Yes, yes! I agree. That's why we have to use the iratus bug stem cells.

[Ringing silence ensues. They're all staring.]

MALE SCIENTIST: Uh, sorry?

BECKETT: The iratus bug stem cell programmed with human R.N.A. wouldn't get rejected by his system and would be practically ignored by the current strain of retrovirus.

BIRO: We attack it from the inside?

BECKETT: Exactly. It would be like our own magic bullet that could navigate the retrovirus and start to repair his mutated cells.

From my understanding, the method Beckett is going to use to turn Wraith into humans seems perfectly viable. Converting a wraith wouldn't be any different than curing Shep because at that point, his genetics were almost like a wraith's anyway... from the prototype virus that gave him all the bad RNA in the first place.

...this is coming from a composer/symphonist though. ^_^

Shep'sSocks
December 2nd, 2005, 05:30 PM
I wholeheartedly agree with you here. The ascendees weren't that interesting to me at all- they were almost a distraction. I, too, have watched it a third time, and by far the very best parts were Sheppard's.

This ancient chick didn't bother me in regards to Sheppard, but she was boring. Nice, but boring.

And because she was an wannabee ascendee she had to wear a floaty dress. This is standard.

Shep'sSocks
December 2nd, 2005, 05:34 PM
You know me... I won't disagree there... :D I love onscreen claustrophobia...
I don't mind sundry wannabee ascendees (with a bit more spark please) running back and forth from the cave trying to feed him and persuade him to go ascending...
Angsty Sheppard is always good... :p :D

Nuh, Shep all alone in the cave talking to his radio. No distracting floaty dressed wannabee ascendees unless he's hallucinating.

Shep'sSocks
December 2nd, 2005, 05:38 PM
I'll come over and have a lurk; maybe you'll convert me. I would love to see more raw angst in Sheppard than I have. I've been using fan fic for that :-)

You gotta watch the eyes. Everything's there. :)

Yeade
December 2nd, 2005, 05:41 PM
What Shep'sSocks said. It's all in the eyes. And the hair. Which spikes, flattens, and waves according to Sheppard's mood. :p

AutumnDream
December 2nd, 2005, 06:19 PM
What Shep'sSocks said. It's all in the eyes. And the hair. Which spikes, flattens, and waves according to Sheppard's mood. :p

That's because Sheppard's hair is ATA Activated!

Easter Lily
December 2nd, 2005, 06:25 PM
That's because Sheppard's hair is ATA Activated!
What a hair-raising thought... :p
Sorry couldn't resist it...

*dashes to the nearest exit*

Shep'sSocks
December 2nd, 2005, 07:15 PM
What a hair-raising thought... :p
Sorry couldn't resist it...

*dashes to the nearest exit*

What I admire is that it does that all by itself with nary a thought to hair products... Quite creepy really.:p

Yeade
December 2nd, 2005, 09:40 PM
Well, it would be creepy if we weren't all so enamored of it. It's hard to be scared of the thing when your fingers are itching to muss it up.

And I think we'd better stop there and leave the rest to the thunkers. :D

Sadly, though, I honestly can't think of anything else to say about this episode.

...

Okay, I got it!

I spent a little time trying to figure out the spatial relationship between the cave, the village, and the possibly two fields that both reminded everyone of the one in "Duet." This was set off by Sheppard's offhand comment about having gone on a ten-mile(?) run and his later sprint to the team's rescue. Even factoring in cut time, it just seems... silly to think Sheppard ran more than a couple miles to get to his friends. And, what's more, the villagers apparently followed Sheppard--after having some sort of revelatory conversation or mind meld, I'm sure--at a stately walk.

So, working my retconning skills, I came up with the following points:

The key is to assume the field where Sheppard ran into Avrid is different from the one the rest of the team was crossing at the end. For clarity, the first is Field A, the second Field B. (Not very creative names, I know, but I'm tired.)

Now, the cave is between Field A and the village. Field B, on the other hand, is between the cave and the village.

(Note that when I say "between" I don't necessarily mean on a straight line. These places could also be located triangularly.)

When Sheppard left the cave to forage, he either went away from the village directly toward Field A, where he ran into Avrid, or circled gradually outward from the cave and happened to be in Field A when he ran into Avrid. He might have done either, but the latter has the benefit of being more military, IMO. However, if he did circle, Field A is closer, maybe a great deal closer, to the cave than the village; that ensures Sheppard wouldn't have run across the village while circling outward.

At any rate, with Field A on the far side of the cave away from the village, Teer's remark that Avrid carried Sheppard "halfway across the sanctuary" is plausible. As is Sheppard's ten-mile run. (Especially if he got lost for a stretch, lol.)

When the team left the cave to search for Sheppard and the Ancient power source, they went toward the village in the direction of Field B. If it's assumed the villagers walked the distance, Field B is fairly close to the village.

Ta-da! That was a lot of explanation for a simple concept, but I don't have the skill to draw it and post the image. And, as geeky and obsessive as it is, it's not off-topic! Yay! :p

Shep'sSocks
December 2nd, 2005, 09:47 PM
Yeade, you think too much. :P

Quinn Mallory
December 2nd, 2005, 10:26 PM
Although there were quite a few similarities to SG-1 episode 100 days (Sheppard was trapped for about 6 months in this one so I guess this episode would be 150 days), I thought this was still quite an interesting episode (of course, after the wait for the new episodes, any SGA is satisfying).

In terms of SGA stand alone episodes, I thought this was one is probably among my favorites. It's not as good as Aurora but better than Condemned.

AutumnDream
December 2nd, 2005, 10:33 PM
Yeade, you think too much. :P

Some of us *ahem* tend to think about this series way more than is healthy.

...also, it's our duty to get every episode thread to at least 200 replies. :p

Quinn Mallory
December 2nd, 2005, 10:34 PM
Well, it would be creepy if we weren't all so enamored of it. It's hard to be scared of the thing when your fingers are itching to muss it up.

And I think we'd better stop there and leave the rest to the thunkers. :D

Sadly, though, I honestly can't think of anything else to say about this episode.

...

Okay, I got it!

I spent a little time trying to figure out the spatial relationship between the cave, the village, and the possibly two fields that both reminded everyone of the one in "Duet." This was set off by Sheppard's offhand comment about having gone on a ten-mile(?) run and his later sprint to the team's rescue. Even factoring in cut time, it just seems... silly to think Sheppard ran more than a couple miles to get to his friends. And, what's more, the villagers apparently followed Sheppard---after having some sort of revelatory conversation or mind meld, I'm sure---at a stately walk.

So, working my retconning skills, I came up with the following points:

The key is to assume the field where Sheppard ran into Avrid is different from the one the rest of the team was crossing at the end. For clarity, the first is Field A, the second Field B. (Not very creative names, I know, but I'm tired.)

Now, the cave is between Field A and the village. Field B, on the other hand, is between the cave and the village.

(Note that when I say "between" I don't necessarily mean on a straight line. These places could also be located triangularly.)

When Sheppard left the cave to forage, he either went away from the village directly toward Field A, where he ran into Avrid, or circled gradually outward from the cave and happened to be in Field A when he ran into Avrid. He might have done either, but the latter has the benefit of being more military, IMO. However, if he did circle, Field A is closer, maybe a great deal closer, to the cave than the village; that ensures Sheppard wouldn't have run across the village while circling outward.

At any rate, with Field A on the far side of the cave away from the village, Teer's remark that Avrid carried Sheppard "halfway across the sanctuary" is plausible. As is Sheppard's ten-mile run. (Especially if he got lost for a stretch, lol.)

When the team left the cave to search for Sheppard and the Ancient power source, they went toward the village in the direction of Field B. If it's assumed the villagers walked the distance, Field B is fairly close to the village.

Ta-da! That was a lot of explanation for a simple concept, but I don't have the skill to draw it and post the image. And, as geeky and obsessive as it is, it's not off-topic! Yay! :p

That's a good explanation except you wouldn't need two different field. What's actually more plausible is just that within the one field, you have the stronger time dilation effect closer to the village. So at the entrance to the cave, the field dilate time by a factor of about 250X. However, Ronan said it was only a couple of hours while Sheppard said something like 6 months (this would mean the dilation is 2200X). The theory that the field is stronger would easily justify this discrepancy as well as how Sheppard got to the rest of the team that fast.

Yeade
December 2nd, 2005, 11:08 PM
What's actually more plausible is just that within the one field, you have the stronger time dilation effect closer to the village.OMG. Christ, don't pull the pin off that grenade! :p

Okay, so we've all been assuming a uniform time dilation field, and I could see that it's possible the field isn't uniform or perhaps experiences random fluctuations...

Hm. I would expect some evidence of a gradual increase in the time dilation though. Especially if we're talking a factor of ten. For example, if the trees had noticeably moved through seasons as the team walked to the village. I didn't pay much attention to the scenery, but I don't think that was in the episode, so I think I'll give you random fluctuations but not increasing field strength toward the village.

That the power source was in the village--as your idea implies--might explain why the team headed that way though.

Thanks for the interesting theory! It's good to run the brain every once in a while. :)

Shep'sSocks
December 3rd, 2005, 12:26 AM
I'm surprised there's not been much talk of place as a sanctuary from the Wraith.

xfkirsten
December 3rd, 2005, 01:11 AM
I'm surprised there's not been much talk of place as a sanctuary from the Wraith.

I was actually thinking about that the other day. I mean, if it really comes down to a matter of survival, that's always an option for the people of Atlantis. It would have to be a last resort because of the one-way thing, I think (while McKay says he can shut it down from inside, I don't know that Weir would let him do so anyways). But I think that's definitely important to bear in mind!

caty
December 3rd, 2005, 02:11 AM
Well, it would be creepy if we weren't all so enamored of it. It's hard to be scared of the thing when your fingers are itching to muss it up.

And I think we'd better stop there and leave the rest to the thunkers. :D

Sadly, though, I honestly can't think of anything else to say about this episode.

...

Okay, I got it!

I spent a little time trying to figure out the spatial relationship between the cave, the village, and the possibly two fields that both reminded everyone of the one in "Duet." This was set off by Sheppard's offhand comment about having gone on a ten-mile(?) run and his later sprint to the team's rescue. Even factoring in cut time, it just seems... silly to think Sheppard ran more than a couple miles to get to his friends. And, what's more, the villagers apparently followed Sheppard---after having some sort of revelatory conversation or mind meld, I'm sure---at a stately walk.

So, working my retconning skills, I came up with the following points:

The key is to assume the field where Sheppard ran into Avrid is different from the one the rest of the team was crossing at the end. For clarity, the first is Field A, the second Field B. (Not very creative names, I know, but I'm tired.)

Now, the cave is between Field A and the village. Field B, on the other hand, is between the cave and the village.

(Note that when I say "between" I don't necessarily mean on a straight line. These places could also be located triangularly.)

When Sheppard left the cave to forage, he either went away from the village directly toward Field A, where he ran into Avrid, or circled gradually outward from the cave and happened to be in Field A when he ran into Avrid. He might have done either, but the latter has the benefit of being more military, IMO. However, if he did circle, Field A is closer, maybe a great deal closer, to the cave than the village; that ensures Sheppard wouldn't have run across the village while circling outward.

At any rate, with Field A on the far side of the cave away from the village, Teer's remark that Avrid carried Sheppard "halfway across the sanctuary" is plausible. As is Sheppard's ten-mile run. (Especially if he got lost for a stretch, lol.)

When the team left the cave to search for Sheppard and the Ancient power source, they went toward the village in the direction of Field B. If it's assumed the villagers walked the distance, Field B is fairly close to the village.

Ta-da! That was a lot of explanation for a simple concept, but I don't have the skill to draw it and post the image. And, as geeky and obsessive as it is, it's not off-topic! Yay! :p

Actually, he said 10-hour run... But otherwise, your explanation sounds like you know what you're talking about... Do you?:D

Yeade
December 3rd, 2005, 02:29 AM
Ah! A ten-hour run! Thanks for the correction. All I could remember was that, whatever he said, it was hard to match with his later rush to the team's rescue.

As for whether I know what I'm talking about or not... Honestly? No, not really. :p

I mean, all this was probably filmed on the same field, right? And somehow I don't think TPTB sat down and drew a map of where everything was situated, then filmed with that in mind.

So, really, I'm making stuff up, but that's what I do. :)

watcher652
December 3rd, 2005, 03:00 AM
What's actually more plausible is just that within the one field, you have the stronger time dilation effect closer to the village. So at the entrance to the cave, the field dilate time by a factor of about 250X. However, Ronan said it was only a couple of hours while Sheppard said something like 6 months (this would mean the dilation is 2200X). The theory that the field is stronger would easily justify this discrepancy as well as how Sheppard got to the rest of the team that fast.Ooh, I thought of that, too! I'm glad I'm not the only one.

Funny how we try to make continuity and logic where there is none!

Shep'sSocks
December 3rd, 2005, 03:34 AM
I was actually thinking about that the other day. I mean, if it really comes down to a matter of survival, that's always an option for the people of Atlantis. It would have to be a last resort because of the one-way thing, I think (while McKay says he can shut it down from inside, I don't know that Weir would let him do so anyways). But I think that's definitely important to bear in mind!

Of course, it depends on whether the Wraith know about it and can do nothing. Recall that the Atlantis shield would only hold for so long because of the bombardment.

prion
December 3rd, 2005, 11:23 AM
Ah! A ten-hour run! Thanks for the correction. All I could remember was that, whatever he said, it was hard to match with his later rush to the team's rescue.

As for whether I know what I'm talking about or not... Honestly? No, not really. :p

I mean, all this was probably filmed on the same field, right? And somehow I don't think TPTB sat down and drew a map of where everything was situated, then filmed with that in mind.


I think he sorta said ten hour run as he was out there for ten hours, but running for that amoutn of time? Uh, no. Probably walked/ran and jogged for that time period, so figure five hours to the 'portal' and five back, and that would have meant that when the rest of the gang came to rescue them, the probably had trekked at least a few hours (suprised McKay wasn't kevetching loudly). Plus, he said he finally found his weapons (figure that would take a few minutes as he may not quite remember where the beast beat him up) and the weapons flew and the grass was tall... and then how much time did he spend puttering around the cave until he found the knapsack?

I swear, all the fields and trees look the same becuase they probably are.

I've watched the ep several times and even with the flaws (logic, not enough Shep backstory at least for me), I really do like it.

ToasterOnFire
December 3rd, 2005, 01:06 PM
Read this! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrovirus) Just the first paragraph should be enough to make anyone understand how Beckett's retrovirus isn't an impossibility, especially considering the advanced ancient resources on biology he has at his disposal.
Oh, I'm well aware of what a retrovirus is. :p Medical science is working on retroviral therapy today, but the success rate is much, MUCH lower than the 40% on Atlantis and the effect tends to wear off rather rapidly. I can fanwank that one away though, because indications are that retroviral therapy will be much more successful in the future.

It's the concept of removing bug DNA to turn wraith into humans that really baffles me. One would assume that the resulting RNA and proteins from bug and human DNA interact with each other rather than working completely separately. Therefore, removing the bug DNA would likely have a dangerous to deadly result rather than simply transforming the wraith into a human. (example: theory indicates that mitochondria used to be a different organism. Insert a retrovirus to destroy the DNA from that organism = no mitochondria = dead.)

xfkirsten
December 3rd, 2005, 01:12 PM
Of course, it depends on whether the Wraith know about it and can do nothing. Recall that the Atlantis shield would only hold for so long because of the bombardment.

True. I guess it depends on how long the shield would hold out on the power that they have. I got the impression that the Wraith did not know about it - or at least did not bother to try because of the shield (much like the planet in Childhood's End).

mgbland
December 3rd, 2005, 07:08 PM
Comparing "Epiphany" to "A Hundred Days," I hope Sheppard didn't sleep with the girl and leave her the way O'Neill did.

As you can see, I have to wait another month plus. :(

ToasterOnFire
December 3rd, 2005, 07:50 PM
Comparing "Epiphany" to "A Hundred Days," I hope Sheppard didn't sleep with the girl and leave her the way O'Neill did.

As you can see, I have to wait another month plus. :(
Hmmm...the way the scene cut after they kissed left that kind of open...

...can ascended beings have babies?

Shep'sSocks
December 3rd, 2005, 08:44 PM
True. I guess it depends on how long the shield would hold out on the power that they have. I got the impression that the Wraith did not know about it - or at least did not bother to try because of the shield (much like the planet in Childhood's End).

More likely the Childhood's End scenario though if they thought that people were taking refuge there they'd bombard it pretty damn quick.

Shep'sSocks
December 3rd, 2005, 08:45 PM
Hmmm...the way the scene cut after they kissed left that kind of open...

...can ascended beings have babies?

I find that faintly squickish.

Easter Lily
December 3rd, 2005, 09:52 PM
Hmmm...the way the scene cut after they kissed left that kind of open...

...can ascended beings have babies?
Beings of pure energy having offspring?! Ascendlets... or is it ascendings? :p
I very much doubt it, somehow... ;)

Shep'sSocks
December 3rd, 2005, 11:15 PM
Ascendlings.

SGalisa
December 3rd, 2005, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by SGalisa:
would someone please describe what was going on with Shep's hands and body's reaction vs. his mind - that his physical and mental entities were experiencing some sort of time reaction shift?
Originally posted by Yeade:
Are you referring to when Sheppard first got sucked into the portal? As I understand it, the process hurt him because he crossed the threshold slowly, resisting and later being pulled back by Ronon and Teyla. This way, his body noticeably experienced the difference in time flow as opposed to the team quickly stepping through later.yes, that is what I meant (*thank you*). People kept mentioning it, and, so, trying to imagine it without having the details before seeing it - is a bit of a challenge... ;)


Originally posted by ToasterOnFire:
...can ascended beings have babies?I personally prefer them to stay as they are -pure energy beings with the ability to look human and vice versa again... less complicated. Otherwise, the stories might end up similar to those biblical rumors that a certain group of angels were making babies with humans, and the resulting newborns got wiped out of existence.

might be better not going down that path... the Ori and Priors (of SG1) are plenty enough for the galaxies to deal with... :D

Shep'sSocks
December 3rd, 2005, 11:31 PM
But the Ancients have already done the 'playing God' bit with that whole 'seeding humans' thing.

SGalisa
December 4th, 2005, 11:01 AM
But the Ancients have already done the 'playing God' bit with that whole 'seeding humans' thing.I might be wrong, but I always believed thruout the entire Stargate legends, the ancients were still in human form when they "seeded" the galaxies. (makes better sense)

Unless if they were using some form of precollected lifeform seeding process via computer, as in I think it was "Scorched Earth" where the Enkarans were about to be wiped out by the giant ship, that would be the other most logical "seeding" theory the ancients could have used. ;)
--------
re: the "monster in the woods". Based on speculation, when I first heard about this episode, I thought of the monster being similar -by size only- to the giants in SG1's "Crystal Skull" episode. Now I'm wondering, where there any visual similarities there?

prion
December 4th, 2005, 11:39 AM
Comparing "Epiphany" to "A Hundred Days," I hope Sheppard didn't sleep with the girl and leave her the way O'Neill did.

As you can see, I have to wait another month plus. :(

And how did Jack leave Lara in "100 Days"? Just left her. THe speculation about her being pregnant is just that, fan speculation, but in this case, Teer left Sheppard, not the other way around.

caty
December 4th, 2005, 12:02 PM
And how did Jack leave Lara in "100 Days"? Just left her. THe speculation about her being pregnant is just that, fan speculation, but in this case, Teer left Sheppard, not the other way around.
Yeah, and I don't think there were any real feelings, on either side. IMO, Teera was just a girl he has a physical attraction to, triggered by the fact that he feels very lonely.
And Teera felt the attraction because she had seen his face for all her life and he was their hope to finally ascend.

So Real Feelings? - Not if you ask me!

Shep'sSocks
December 4th, 2005, 03:39 PM
I might be wrong, but I always believed thruout the entire Stargate legends, the ancients were still in human form when they "seeded" the galaxies. (makes better sense)

Unless if they were using some form of precollected lifeform seeding process via computer, as in I think it was "Scorched Earth" where the Enkarans were about to be wiped out by the giant ship, that would be the other most logical "seeding" theory the ancients could have used. ;)

It warrants further attention but I doubt whether we'd get it.

telpethoniel
December 4th, 2005, 06:57 PM
I loved the whole 'Aaa, MALP on a stick' thing
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v99/Aniron_Iluvatar/Other%20guys/epiphany029.jpg

telpethoniel
December 5th, 2005, 12:12 AM
I'm just itching to find out who's the actor is who plays Avrid, Teer's (the woman who has a crush on Shepard) brother
Does anyone know?

Shep'sSocks
December 5th, 2005, 12:43 AM
Same fellow from Demons, wasn't it?

telpethoniel
December 5th, 2005, 12:48 AM
From my understanding, the method Beckett is going to use to turn Wraith into humans seems perfectly viable. Converting a wraith wouldn't be any different than curing Shep because at that point, his genetics were almost like a wraith's anyway... from the prototype virus that gave him all the bad RNA in the first place.

...this is coming from a composer/symphonist though. ^_^
Didn't Beckett state that, "Wraith have no need for a digestive System, so why have one at all" (Instinct-season 2) the one question I'm posing is, how is the retrovirus going to create a digestive system in the wraith or are they going to be life sucking humans? What I have heard about the episode 'Michael' seems to suport this though I may be wrong.:rolleyes:
Any ideas?

telpethoniel
December 5th, 2005, 12:59 AM
Same fellow from Demons, wasn't it?
YES!!! David McNally, awesome
I've been looking everywhere, thankyou so much

Willow'sCat
December 5th, 2005, 01:05 AM
Rodney stole the show - I always enjoy seeing a cranky, under-pressure Rodney and I thought his admittances that he couldn't fly the PJ well and that the idea was really Zelenka's were nice bits of character development. Ronan and Teyla were great, though I am getting a bit sick of seeing them together all the time...

Best line of the ep - "I didn't ask for a log!" :DHaha, he was really snarky, yea! :D


Yeah, and I don't think there were any real feelings, on either side. IMO, Teera was just a girl he has a physical attraction to, triggered by the fact that he feels very lonely.
And Teera felt the attraction because she had seen his face for all her life and he was their hope to finally ascend.

So Real Feelings? - Not if you ask me!Not on Sheppards side, I didn't get that either. I think he was hedging his bets, what if I am stranded here maybe it wouldn't be so bad with her, but please get me the **** out of here I am so bored. :p

Shep'sSocks
December 5th, 2005, 02:24 AM
Haha, he was really snarky, yea! :D

It was the delivery rather than the line for me.


Not on Sheppards side, I didn't get that either. I think he was hedging his bets, what if I am stranded here maybe it wouldn't be so bad with her, but please get me the **** out of here I am so bored. :p

Because they were boring people. He was just using her for sex...

ToasterOnFire
December 5th, 2005, 08:57 AM
Because they were boring people. He was just using her for sex...
That's a rather unappealing way of looking at Shep... :S

Linzi
December 5th, 2005, 11:03 AM
That's a rather unappealing way of looking at Shep... :S
It is rather, isn't it?
I'm sure it was not meant to be taken seriously though..

obsessed1
December 5th, 2005, 04:51 PM
Hi there,:) I'm new to this, but here goes.
I havent seen this ep yet (UK) but when i read the spoilers for it i kinda imagined it this way.
I thought the beast was going to be a manifestation of the villagers fears (As it was-sorta) but also that it would be a manifestation of Sheps thoughts and fears.

I imagined that that was how the whole Shep backstory would tie i. I thought that Sheppard would get the opportunity to ascend but they say he cant leave until he resolves the issues that prevent him from going. i.e. Afghanistan.
Then you see I thought it would link to flashbacks of his time there and why he cant resolve the issues and henceforth cant ascend.

In a sense I think Epiphany without that parallels what his time in Afghanistan may have been like. In the sense that he was abandoned and alone. His comment on "we dont leave people behind right?" seemed very personal and specific to him.
I dont know. Thats my thoughts on it anyway.

Shep'sSocks
December 5th, 2005, 11:26 PM
It is rather, isn't it?
I'm sure it was not meant to be taken seriously though..

Sorry, forgot the smiley to indicate this...

caty
December 6th, 2005, 12:49 AM
Hi there,:) I'm new to this, but here goes.
I havent seen this ep yet (UK) but when i read the spoilers for it i kinda imagined it this way.
I thought the beast was going to be a manifestation of the villagers fears (As it was-sorta) but also that it would be a manifestation of Sheps thoughts and fears.

I imagined that that was how the whole Shep backstory would tie i. I thought that Sheppard would get the opportunity to ascend but they say he cant leave until he resolves the issues that prevent him from going. i.e. Afghanistan.
Then you see I thought it would link to flashbacks of his time there and why he cant resolve the issues and henceforth cant ascend.

In a sense I think Epiphany without that parallels what his time in Afghanistan may have been like. In the sense that he was abandoned and alone. His comment on "we dont leave people behind right?" seemed very personal and specific to him.
I dont know. Thats my thoughts on it anyway.

Welcome! Are you the same 'obsessed1' who posts stories at FF? If you are, you should really come visit us at the Shep whumping thread :D

Brendan
December 6th, 2005, 03:09 PM
SG-1's "A Hundred Days" + Star Trek: TNG's "Darmok" = SG-A's
EPIPHANY!!

Easter Lily
December 6th, 2005, 08:58 PM
Just rewatched it and picked up on the "I don't have a volleyball to talk to" line...:D
It would've been fun if they had worked that angle a lot more... Not a la Tom Hanks necessarily but more angst and contemplation.

Shep'sSocks
December 6th, 2005, 09:52 PM
Just rewatched it and picked up on the "I don't have a volleyball to talk to" line...:D
It would've been fun if they had worked that angle a lot more... Not a la Tom Hanks necessarily but more angst and contemplation.

Or any angst and contemplation. There was a vague hint but I think the rest was in Joe's story.

prion
December 7th, 2005, 08:35 AM
Hi there,:) I thought the beast was going to be a manifestation of the villagers fears (As it was-sorta) but also that it would be a manifestation of Sheps thoughts and fears.

Teer indicated it was the villagers' fears that were manifested, as obviously the beast had been there before Shep even stepped foot on that planet, so they've been knitting that critter for a while ;)


I imagined that that was how the whole Shep backstory would tie i. I thought that Sheppard would get the opportunity to ascend but they say he cant leave until he resolves the issues that prevent him from going. i.e. Afghanistan.
Then you see I thought it would link to flashbacks of his time there and why he cant resolve the issues and henceforth cant ascend.

Alas, that's why I sometimes dread reading what actors and producers and writers say as half the time the stuff never shows up on the peisode. Cut from script, cut due to overruns, etc. I'd love to have seen some flashbacks, but then that would have turned it into a 90 minute episode.


In a sense I think Epiphany without that parallels what his time in Afghanistan may have been like. In the sense that he was abandoned and alone. His comment on "we dont leave people behind right?" seemed very personal and specific to him.
I dont know. Thats my thoughts on it anyway.

I don't think Sheppard has been stuck alone behind enemy lines before. However, he seems fiercely loyal to friends and remember, going against orders to rescue men trapped behind enemy lines is what fried his military career (Rising). The 'we don't leave people behind' motto seems to be a military thing. I read from someone who was in the military that friendships formed in the military are some of the strongest bonds imaginable, and to leave a friend behind when there's the smallest chance to save them, you go ahead and save them.

However, Shep was pretty much very isolated on that planet. Sure, he was with people, but not his people. They had a totally different mindset and wanted him to join them but as he said, that's not the path he chose, hence, going through a bout of depression when he was told there was no way off the planet (or well, the sanctuary). Period.

This episode can be a veritable goldmine for fanfic writers to fill in all the angst, etc. that didn't appear on screen. After all, they compressed the six months to fit the show, but fanfic writers can write as much as they want ;)

Crichton
December 8th, 2005, 12:15 PM
Loved it. Atlantis' second half of season 2 is off to a great start.

Crichton
December 9th, 2005, 10:49 AM
I gotta say that there really is convincing evidence that sending Daniel to Atlantis is necessary. They could've easily avoided this whole incident if they could read the Ancient text.

ToasterOnFire
December 9th, 2005, 05:59 PM
Sorry, forgot the smiley to indicate this...
Ah, okay then. I figured you had some attachment to Shep, considering your name and all. :D


I gotta say that there really is convincing evidence that sending Daniel to Atlantis is necessary. They could've easily avoided this whole incident if they could read the Ancient text.
For some reason I thought Rodney could read Ancient. Or was that wraith? Anyone know?

Easter Lily
December 9th, 2005, 06:02 PM
This episode can be a veritable goldmine for fanfic writers to fill in all the angst, etc. that didn't appear on screen. After all, they compressed the six months to fit the show, but fanfic writers can write as much as they want ;)
Is that a challenge... ;)

Shep'sSocks
December 10th, 2005, 12:13 AM
Ah, okay then. I figured you had some attachment to Shep, considering your name and all. :D

A particular attachment to the nekkid ankles. :D

Willow'sCat
December 10th, 2005, 12:33 AM
Comparing "Epiphany" to "A Hundred Days," I hope Sheppard didn't sleep with the girl and leave her the way O'Neill did.
You know until very recently I always assumed that Jack left "what's her name" pregnant but a while back someone posted a thread wanting to know if Jack paid maintenance for the child and so many people posted that she wasn't pregnant that now I am not sure. *well yes I still think she was* ;)

John wouldn't have unsafe sex! :eek: Jack sure. :p :D *Ducks*

Linzi
December 10th, 2005, 01:10 AM
John wouldn't have unsafe sex! :eek: Jack sure. :p :D *Ducks*

LOL!!!!!:D

eccscape
December 16th, 2005, 12:13 AM
John wouldn't have unsafe sex! :eek: Jack sure. :p :D *Ducks*

Lol!! i'm sure Rodney sent 'something' through in the napsack with the other 'essentials':p

prion
December 16th, 2005, 08:37 AM
You know until very recently I always assumed that Jack left "what's her name" pregnant but a while back someone posted a thread wanting to know if Jack paid maintenance for the child and so many people posted that she wasn't pregnant that now I am not sure. *well yes I still think she was* ;)

John wouldn't have unsafe sex! :eek: Jack sure. :p :D *Ducks*

With SG1, fans could assume whatever they wanted as you could read into what happened and as for the results, ditto. Since we haven't seen anything about it on screen yet, fans can presume there's no offspring, but then again if the show jumps the shark, some kid comes through the gate looking for dad.

And I could see Jack giving Shep a lecture right before he leaves for the Pegasus Galaxy...

O'Neill: Just one more thing, Major.
Sheppard: Sir?
O'Neill: About sex with alien women...
Sheppard: (blinks)... Uh.
O'Neill: It's okay, except if they offer you cake.
Sheppard: (confused) Sir??
O'Neill: It's because of the nintendos or whatever (Sheppard just gawks). Anyway, just don't accept the cake.
SHeppard: So, uh, if I don't accept the cake, then I can...
O'Neill: No, if they offer you cake before, don't.
Sheppard: Have sex?
O'Neill: Eat the cake!
Sheppard: But I could--
O'Neill: No, if they offer cake, you can't do it.
Sheppard: (more confused) What if the cake is offered after?
O'Neill: (looks blank) Then I guess you're screwed.
Sheppard: I would think that would be--
O'Neill (just shoves Sheppard toward the door and out of his office): Just remember the nintendos! Or nanobytes, or whatever.
Sheppard: (stands there a second as airmen pass by): Right sir. No cake, sex or computer games.
O'Neill: You'll enjoy the Pegasus Galaxy (shuts door)

[from "Brief Candle']

The Engineer
December 16th, 2005, 08:43 AM
It was ok.

Seastallion
December 27th, 2005, 01:59 AM
I liked the episode. :)

Phew..! So much complaining. Whine, whine, whine...! Eesh. Anywho...

For all those folks complaining that said episode (among others) has no point, I disagree. For one thing, stand alone episodes can be nice. However, even stand alone episodes often give critical information that will be needed down the road to reduce the time for explanations about things in later episodes. They also sometimes leave subtle hints, that might not be resolved for quite some time. For instance, we've begun to learn that the Ancients are beginning to take a bit more notice than they have previously. Before earth, and the rest of humanity seemed to be far below their radar screens. Now, we're learning that they seem to watch us a little more closely then we had given them credit for. The last episode of SG1, we learned that the Ancients decided that they needed to get involved in our conflict with the Ori on at least some level, which through Orlin, they did.

Okay... to bring the moral to the story home... The 'seeming' pointless encounters we've had with the Ascended in Pegasus are also bringing us to the attention of the Ancients. It may not mean much, but it might provide just enough 'umph' to move the story along later. I think it might be reasonable to suggest that the ascended beings that have made direct contact with us on Epiphany and in the past, are likely continuing to keep an eye out for us now. Obviously Oma, had been keeping a close eye on Daniel, or how else would she have known to bother to come and help him on the two times she did? I would imagine that the people of Abydos are still keeping an eye on their friends on Earth, perhaps waiting for the time when they might be able to offer some assistance. The same might be true here on Epiphany. Yeah... they ascended and are 'gone'... but are they? Sheppard was given the suggestion that they'd keep an eye out for him, perhaps even the offer of later helping him to ascend.

Moral of the story? Not so meaningless after all... Hmmm... :)

Quinn Mallory
January 11th, 2006, 02:55 PM
Just rewatched this episode. It's actually better than I remembered. Of course, I think I liked it before being a bit down on it after reading some of the posts here.

The time dilation field definitely look to create a gradiant as one gets closer to the center of the zone, time may had slowed down much more. Anyway, I would've expected Sheppard to see the flower that McKay sent in to test the time dilation (since that flower must had spent 6 hours or more there) and realize that there is some kind of time dilation but I guess that would take something away from the story. Also, perhaps there was some kind of intermediate region that the flower resided (but if the flower branch was as long as "MALP on the stick" then that that wouldn't be the explanation.

Yeade
January 11th, 2006, 03:47 PM
Drive-by reply! :D
Anyway, I would've expected Sheppard to see the flower that McKay sent in to test the time dilation (since that flower must had spent 6 hours or more there) and realize that there is some kind of time dilation but I guess that would take something away from the story.The easy explanation is that Sheppard was out scouting the area--which we know he did--during the time McKay stuck in the branch of flowers.

-Jules-
January 12th, 2006, 04:47 PM
With SG1, fans could assume whatever they wanted as you could read into what happened and as for the results, ditto. Since we haven't seen anything about it on screen yet, fans can presume there's no offspring, but then again if the show jumps the shark, some kid comes through the gate looking for dad.

And I could see Jack giving Shep a lecture right before he leaves for the Pegasus Galaxy...

O'Neill: Just one more thing, Major.
Sheppard: Sir?
O'Neill: About sex with alien women...
Sheppard: (blinks)... Uh.
O'Neill: It's okay, except if they offer you cake.
Sheppard: (confused) Sir??
O'Neill: It's because of the nintendos or whatever (Sheppard just gawks). Anyway, just don't accept the cake.
SHeppard: So, uh, if I don't accept the cake, then I can...
O'Neill: No, if they offer you cake before, don't.
Sheppard: Have sex?
O'Neill: Eat the cake!
Sheppard: But I could--
O'Neill: No, if they offer cake, you can't do it.
Sheppard: (more confused) What if the cake is offered after?
O'Neill: (looks blank) Then I guess you're screwed.
Sheppard: I would think that would be--
O'Neill (just shoves Sheppard toward the door and out of his office): Just remember the nintendos! Or nanobytes, or whatever.
Sheppard: (stands there a second as airmen pass by): Right sir. No cake, sex or computer games.
O'Neill: You'll enjoy the Pegasus Galaxy (shuts door)

[from "Brief Candle']

ROFLMAO!!

And WHY, pray tell, does this episode (by commercial) look just like A Hundred Days??? :S

Quinn Mallory
January 12th, 2006, 10:31 PM
Drive-by reply! :D

The easy explanation is that Sheppard was out scouting the area---which we know he did---during the time McKay stuck in the branch of flowers.

Yeah, that's what I gathered but he went scouting for 6 hours without checking back to the entrance?

Maybe it was so dark in the cave that he just didn't notice the flower sticking in.

Shep'sSocks
January 12th, 2006, 10:36 PM
But the time difference could have meant that he was away for half an hour or something according to his watch but it turned out to be six hours.

AGateFan
January 13th, 2006, 06:05 PM
Atlantis review as you watch:

Rodney, typical Rodney.
State the obvious Ronan, Rodney would NEVER jump all over that.
Rodney is going to get a beat down if he keeps that up.

Malp on a stick…. Nice
Beat down is definitely coming
This is stupid, (their plan that is, not the ep so far)

Can you hear me now? (was that a cell phone joke)
Rodney figures it out fast…. Nice

That too is stupid as BULLETS BOUNCE (doesn’t he watch Stargate SG-1)

Rodney taking charge good for him….maybe he should have written a note.
Ha ….see a note would have been good!
Conan and Xena… hahahaha that was funny.
Teyla walks too slow I suspect.
Monsters… your gonna eat me or I’m gonna eat you… good line.
Oh, poor Rodney too much guilt… but yea for more Carson.

That guy looks familiar… he was the one that wanted to kill Teal’c in Cori, right?

Kind of Star Trek. … with the monster doing the 3 claw scraping thing
Nice little family.
Uh, oh… told you that was stupid…. Maybe they should have actually, idunno, translated the writing on the wall BEFORE walking into the portal…. Its TV… need stupidity to move the plot.

Uh, oh… girl hitting on him.. but its at least not to flagrant yet.
Better then prostrating for 6 hours I guess.
Ahh, he is a brother.

Bet that monster is like some key to ascending or something.
Abandonment issues… that was funny
Injured again?. When did that happen? Oh so the kid is nearly ascended. Hey they actually tried to explain it, that’s a good sign.

Haha,,, good Telya smart with the watch.

Man that lady hitting on Shep looks familiar too. Shes been in something… cant think of what
Oh, the one, eh? That’s kinda cheesy.
Ahggg… kissing…. Well at least he has known her for a while.
Wow see, translation, that is a good idea.. maybe you should have read it FIRST.
Is it your right to turn it off? Carson looks like he has an issue. Oh, he has to go through.
Sheppard is trying to convince people ascending is a bad idea? Just let them believe what they believe.

Ronan\Rodney Bbbbeeeaaatttt ddddooowwwnnnn.
Saved by the monster.
Awe Rodney and Carson defending Weir.
Giant monster, that’s not good.
Awe the villigars have come to fight…. I mean ascend… man.. I know I have seen this before somewhere….I know I have.

Doh, shes got attitude… give it up Rodney.
Ok, that was a funny line… if the kirking stops here I can live with it.

It was a good ep. I liked it well enough. Good job….whoever wrote it.

cindyz
January 13th, 2006, 06:28 PM
Pretty good episode! A comment...the invisible beast, to me was a giant rip off of Startrek Next Generation...the episode where Picard and some alien guy are stranded on an island, and fight an invisible beast, together, they defeat it. Darmok and Gilad at Tinagra, anyone?
And yes, the young man was from "Cor-ai". I did like John's little "can you hear me now" references. A good episode, worth the replay in 2 hours.

Dannygirl
January 13th, 2006, 06:29 PM
Good job for JF and the other people that helped and corrected him along the way. Yes, you could say it was a culmination of other SG-1 epi's but I'll forgive that. I do have a few slight problems...

According to SG-1, you have to die to ascend. Shed your physical form. This was stated numerous times throughout SG-1. Season 5,8 etc.

Why can't they stick to one type of ascended shape. Those of you who've also seen SG-1 and what the ascended beings look like in their energy form know what I'm talking about. Consistancy would be nice here when dealing with ascended beings.

I thought that Teyla could only sense Wraith. But here she sensed the beast, which wasn't Wraith.

I started to think that the end was anticlimatic, but the more I think about it, the more I like it. To have a Wraith be the beast would be waaayyy too redundant. The concept that it was a culmination of their fears was actually quite good.

I'm slightly shocked that Weir put up with McKay calling her Xena, an obvious put down of her intelligence. Well, I guess that's why she's leader, infinite patience with certain asses.

Congrads to JF for a good script (yes, I know others contributed heavily), as well as good acting. He had a great many slight changes in expressions that said much to his emotions at the time. Wonderful.

Overall, w/o taking the technicalities into consideration...4/5.

thorshammer
January 13th, 2006, 06:33 PM
This ep was great, although the kirking needs to stop. Why is the beast cloacked? I think it's a cheat excuse to not fully detail the beast and only add a cloak effect. This episode is kind of a mix of Brief Candle (time passes more quickly) and the ep where the Stargate is destoyed by a meteor (stranded and waiting to be rescued). It was good to see McKay taking charge.

AGateFan
January 13th, 2006, 06:34 PM
Good job for JF and the other people that helped and corrected him along the way. Yes, you could say it was a culmination of other SG-1 epi's but I'll forgive that. I do have a few slight problems...

According to SG-1, you have to die to ascend. Shed your physical form. This was stated numerous times throughout SG-1. Season 5,8 etc.

Why can't they stick to one type of ascended shape. Those of you who've also seen SG-1 and what the ascended beings look like in their energy form know what I'm talking about. Consistancy would be nice here when dealing with ascended beings.

I thought that Teyla could only sense Wraith. But here she sensed the beast, which wasn't Wraith.

I started to think that the end was anticlimatic, but the more I think about it, the more I like it. To have a Wraith be the beast would be waaayyy too redundant. The concept that it was a culmination of their fears was actually quite good.

I'm slightly shocked that Weir put up with McKay calling her Xena, an obvious put down of her intelligence. Well, I guess that's why she's leader, infinite patience with certain asses.

Congrads to JF for a good script (yes, I know others contributed heavily), as well as good acting. He had a great many slight changes in expressions that said much to his emotions at the time. Wonderful.

Overall, w/o taking the technicalities into consideration...4/5.

I am 99.9% sure that when Rodney said that he was refering to Telya (xena) and Ronan (Conan....hey that rymes). Although when he first said it I thought... why the heck is he calling Wier and Beckett Xena and Conan.... then my brain caught up... I think.... unless I am confused.;)

mindfire
January 13th, 2006, 06:37 PM
This was a great episode - malp on a stick was good. Also from what has been said before, If they were in dire need of a zpm in theory they could go back and get it. From the rules that they will be forced to follow they can't stop Rodney from taking it in theory.

prion
January 13th, 2006, 06:38 PM
Pretty good episode! A comment...the invisible beast, to me was a giant rip off of Startrek Next Generation...the episode where Picard and some alien guy are stranded on an island, and fight an invisible beast, together, they defeat it. Darmok and Gilad at Tinagra, anyone?
And yes, the young man was from "Cor-ai". I did like John's little "can you hear me now" references. A good episode, worth the replay in 2 hours.

I must be the only person who doesn't think ST:TNG but instead thinks of Forbidden Planet (the first invisible beast, which was from the id).

BigGator5
January 13th, 2006, 06:52 PM
Had two good Sci-Fi concepts mixed together and it worked well.

http://forum.gateworld.net/images/gw_icons/arrow2.gif 7/9

Dannygirl
January 13th, 2006, 07:05 PM
Thanks AGateFan for clearing that up. That makes a lot more sense.




This was a great episode - malp on a stick was good. Also from what has been said before, If they were in dire need of a zpm in theory they could go back and get it. From the rules that they will be forced to follow they can't stop Rodney from taking it in theory.

Actually, the only time you need to follow the rules is if the Ancients helped you to ascend. They ascended on their own so they don't need to follow Ancient rules.

Traveler Enroute1
January 13th, 2006, 07:15 PM
I must be the only person who doesn't think ST:TNG but instead thinks of Forbidden Planet (the first invisible beast, which was from the id).

My thought, too, prion. The fact that 1) this was a place where people were into meditating, using their minds to reach a higher level, and 2) for all the beat down Shep got, he was always healed by the people. Even the look of the entity made me think of the Bellerophon (sp?), although that ST:TNG was a fave episode.

Just sayin', yep, their own monsters from the id! Off to watch both eps again!

prion
January 13th, 2006, 07:24 PM
This was a great episode - malp on a stick was good. Also from what has been said before, If they were in dire need of a zpm in theory they could go back and get it. From the rules that they will be forced to follow they can't stop Rodney from taking it in theory.

Oh, I think if Rodney tried to purloin the ZedPM that the Ascended folk would just take it right back, or zap him (just enough to scare the wits out of him). They do protect thier own, like Chaya protects her planet and people.

MarshAngel
January 13th, 2006, 07:41 PM
It was good right up to the point where it was anticlimactic. It just kind of stopped for me. Not much learned or gained for the people who most need learning and gain. woohoo they ascend... what have we learned? nothing really.

I was a little confused about the remaining people. Time flows at a regular pace for them but they all manage to ascend in their lifetimes, and they weren't descendants of the ancients(??) so they somehow managed to accomplish what the Ancients seemed to have been trying to do for oh about 50+ million years. So after a few hundred/thousand years or so inside I'm going to have to assume that a percentage of each generation either ascended or died leaving fewer and fewer people behind and in the mean time they've been committing incest? or do they just live for much longer than the regular humans?

And did I miss something with the invitation for Shepphard to join them? He's enlightened? Or were they going to just carry him along? and if they could do that then no one should be left because whether you manage it on your own or not, after all that meditation you deserve to be glowy and powerful.

FoolishPleasure
January 13th, 2006, 07:54 PM
The good:

Rodney, MALP on a stick, Conon and Xena, the first 20 minutes.

The bad:

The last 40 minutes.

Teyla can now sense. . EVERYTHING? That's convenient.

Ooooh, more peasant people, all wearing the same color! (they don't have any other dyes in this village?)

The beast shows up in the village. . on to a Cialis commercial. . return to find little girl healing severely injured Shep. WTF?

Sheph0r makes out with hot alien chick of the week. Again. *yawn*

Brief mention that Shep has made numerous treks back to the cave. He did? I saw him bring in a pack, once. But we didn't see what was in it because hot chick decides that was the time to make-out.

"I've seen you in my dreams. .you were meant to be here. . I know you". .whatever Teer said. Didn't Chaya say basically same the same thing?

I made a terrible mistake before watching this - that was to watch SG1, which was quite good, and gave us a good deal of backstory on Cameron Mitchell. Then it was on to a Shep-centric episode where his lack of backstory after TWO years became painfully apparent. His little temper tantrums and whiney fits of being left behind made Shep appear immature, next to Mitchell, who an hour earlier seemed quite the superb officer.

Thumbs down. Hopefully SOMEONE will do something to develop Sheppard one of these days.

Osiris-RA
January 13th, 2006, 08:10 PM
Good ep! Though it did remind me a bit of that ep when Jack was stranded on that boring colonial planet. But better. I daresay Shep's getting an actual personality! He should keep the beard. Makes him look tough and interesting.

1. Is it just me, or are they trying to dumb down Dex? Mckay's always snapping at him, then Dex says something absurdly stupid, or acts like 'well, uh, duh, you do something or I'll grind you into powdered sugar!" Come on! The guy's been running from the Wraith, you have have to be kind of smart to do that. Not..appreciating.

2. Teyla: "It disappeared." Oh, thank you Eagle Eye. :rolleyes:

3. Mckay...does anyone have a gopher hole and a mallet to spare? Lets play Whack'a'Mckay! :D

While some of the story blew by a tad quickly, it held my interest - and mum's too surprisingly - more than SG1. More props for that.

Droops
January 13th, 2006, 08:22 PM
First half of show very well written and very interesting.

Second half . . . . not so interesting.

Loved the Shep-0r! stuff! Yea, bring on the babes!!!!

Ahem . . . . .

Anyway, Rodney had the lines of the night. Great stuff from him. Teyla put him in his place though at one point, which brought a smile to my face.

No real character development though, or interesting action, so in the end it left you feeling a bit empty.

MasySyma
January 13th, 2006, 08:51 PM
It was a pretty good episode.

Admittedly, between reading spoilers and the anti-Kirking thread in the Gen. Disc. folder, I was dreading this episode; however, I was very pleasantly suprised tonight.

While I didn't like the Conan and Xena line, I thought the character interaction was well done. Rodney and Ronan just take different approaches to the same cause. The episode shows that they need further interaction, but Sheppard's team is starting to mesh.

About the romance:

I think many of the folks complaining about Kirking need to remember what Kirking is: Kirk meets hot alien girl, knows her for five minutes, seduces hot alien girl, the plot does not move, and Kirk leaves the hot alien girl. Tonight's episode did not fit those parameters. Sheppard thought he was stranded on the planet, and in his world, he had been there for six months. He has a choice: move on or pine. He chose move on. He knew the girl for six months. They had a friendship that turned into a relationship. The plot needed the romance because her faith in Sheppard leads to the ascension of her people, and although we won't see a wedding in Sheppard's future, the romance was done well. I agree that it was a bit awkward given the hot alien chick hit on Sheppard last week and will probably do so as the season continues, but the writers handled this episode and its romantic side well.

I give the episode 9/10 because while it was good I'm waiting for Grace Under Pressure and Michael. Atlantis still isn't rising (no pun intended) to its full potential for me; however, this episode gives me hope for what is to come.

FoolishPleasure
January 13th, 2006, 09:06 PM
About the romance:

I think many of the folks complaining about Kirking need to remember what Kirking is: Kirk meets hot alien girl, knows her for five minutes, seduces hot alien girl, the plot does not move, and Kirk leaves the hot alien girl. Tonight's episode did not fit those parameters. Sheppard thought he was stranded on the planet, and in his world, he had been there for six months. He has a choice: move on or pine. He chose move on. He knew the girl for six months. They had a friendship that turned into a relationship. The plot needed the romance because her faith in Sheppard leads to the ascension of her people, and although we won't see a wedding in Sheppard's future, the romance was done well. I agree that it was a bit awkward given the hot alien chick hit on Sheppard last week and will probably do so as the season continues, but the writers handled this episode and its romantic side well.
.

I saw it a bit differently. Obviously there are comparisons to SG1's "100 Days". The difference being:

Jack was stranded and after several months figured there was no hope of going home. No one had contacted him, and he DID fit in with the society. He was helping to build structures, repair equipment, catch food, even partied with the group. He LIKED the people and truly cared for Laira. He did not sleep with her until he had decided he was going to STAY with her.

Sheppard was completely UNHAPPY all the way through this episode. He never seemed to care for these people and consistenly complained about being stuck there. He finally found a backpack at the cave with items from his friends - he KNEW they were trying to get to him. So what does he do? He has make-out session with GF of the week. I never got the feeling that he loved her, or even liked her. So why the heck is he sleeping with her when he had no intention of staying with her and he had just discovered his friends were coming to save him?

THAT is "kirking"

MasySyma
January 13th, 2006, 09:16 PM
Sheppard was completely UNHAPPY all the way through this episode. He never seemed to care for these people and consistenly complained about being stuck there. He finally found a backpack at the cave with items from his friends - he KNEW they were trying to get to him. So what does he do? He has make-out session with GF of the week. I never got the feeling that he loved her, or even liked her. So why the heck is he sleeping with her when he had no intention of staying with her and he had just discovered his friends were coming to save him?

THAT is "kirking"

I can see your point, but just because he knew that his friends were coming did not mean that it would be soon. The delay in items would have alerted him to a larger problem preventing his team for saving him, so one can assume that he might think that he would not be rescued for many additional months. I may not agree with his relationship ethics in the episode for the reasons you suggest, but part of Kirking is a lack of emotional connection between Kirk and the hot alien girl of the week. Sheppard already had a relationship with this woman and her family. He is human, so while I didn't cheer and say that Sheppard needed a romance as I might for Daniel, I can acknowledge that the writers did not take the short cut used too often in the scifi world: Kirking. I mainly picture the last few years of Andromeda when I think of this, and nothing in Sheppard's behavior corresponded to Dylan Hunt's seduction of the girl of the week.

As soon as the writers chose this type of plot, a romance was inevitable. At least the writers handled it with class.