Arcturus could have worked if.....

[freyr's mother]

If McKay patched in every kind of thing that used a lot of energy like atlantis' shield, the weapon, and all atlantis do you think that the power conduits would have overloaded?

[MarshAngel]

If McKay patched in every kind of thing that used a lot of energy like atlantis' shield, the weapon, and all atlantis do you think that the power conduits would have overloaded?

If I'm remembering right, that wasn't the main problem. I can't correctly explain what it was but I think the problem was that whatever the design was, the containment protocols couldn't compensate for situations it couldn't predict and it couldn't predict the situations because it was impossible.... or something of the sort


This is what's in the Gateworld synopsis:

But Zelenka believes he knows why the Ancients abandoned the technology. Attempting to extract energy from our own space-time is impossible. Eventually the matrix within the field of the weapon becomes inherently unpredictable, and an overload is the end result at no matter what power level. McKay refuses to listen, and as predicted the energy field spikes.

[Steve_the_Wraith]

The drawing of Zeropoint energy from our own space time creates a region of space where normal rules of physics don't apply and therefore containment is impossible - McKay couldn't concieve of a time when the Laws of physics didn't apply and so he failed miserably

Which is a trait we haven't seen in McKay alot since his SG-1 days when he was a brilliant scientist but not an artist - ie capable of working beyond the bounds of normal science - taking what is known and running with it - which is why he admires Carter so much

[aaobuttons]

I think it didn't matter what McKay did or could have tried, if the Ancients couldn't figure it out, then McKay didn't have a chance.

[The Engineer]

The drawing of Zeropoint energy from our own space time creates a region of space where normal rules of physics don't apply and therefore containment is impossible

All we have to discover is the rules that apply to that region of space, making prediction possible and thus containmet possible.
The weapon would definately work as a bomb. Attract all the Wraith and then go boooooom!

[Eoin]

The weapon would definately work as a bomb. Attract all the Wraith and then go boooooom!

That would be fun

I agree with aaobuttons, if the ancients couldnt figure it out, Mckay didnt have a chance

[The Engineer]

I agree with aaobuttons, if the ancients couldnt figure it out, Mckay didnt have a chance

What is worse is that McKay couldn't figure out that because even the Ancients weren't able to figure it out he couldn't figure it out either. He is too arrogant.

[Ascended Times.2]

Well, I actually quite like Mckay because of his arrogance, in 'condemned' the leader of the prisoner camp summed him up pretty damned well...

[The Engineer]

This kind of arrogance gets you killed.
Fortunately is a TV show.
He has time to change his attitude for the better in order for him not make so many screw ups.

[Alexein]

I think the original problem was a little more circular than simply being non-standard physics.


Basically, you create the zero point "thing" that releases energy. You contain the thing with a field. The thing hits the field and in turn the field influences the thing. The thing now changes its properties to produce particles that the field can't hold....

.... after blowing up a few solar systems you catch on and create a NEW and IMPROVED field to block these new particles. This field is different from the original field and when it interacts with the Zero Point thing it does NOT create the original bad particles, it creates DIFFERENT particles that this new field cannot hold....


.... after blowing up some more solar systems you catch on and create a NEW and IMPROVED field. But this field is different from the fields you tried previously and it creates new particles...


... repeat....



basically put, the mere act of trying to contain the zero point energy in turn makes it impossible to contain.

It's a circular paradox, similar to the paradox of: Can you lift up yourself?
no, because you need to stand on something in order to lift yourself up. But once you lift yourself up, you're not standing on anything... CRASH!!

The only way to lift yourself up is to hoist yourself up by a pulley system or similar. but that system is standing on the floor. it is essentially "outside" of your sphere.

The Zero Point modules work because while the micro-universe is being contained, the containment field generators aren't in the micro-universe, they are in our universe (being part of that red/orange crystal matrix). so they are just like the pulley system. they don't cause the self-interaction that made the arcturus project go up.


or at least that's how i think it works....
oh well i'm probably wrong.

[Whatazarian]

The laws of physics always apply.. In that certain situation Zelenka said that exotic particles were coming into and out of existence at all times, and because of Quantum theory's Uncertainty Principle, you cannot know the momentum and exact position of a subatomic particle at the same time, however this was discredited in Season 2 of SG-1's Tin Man. So the more likely situation is that the Zero Point field blasted out all sorts of Quarks and Hadrons etc... that behaved in unknown ways, because knowing how one of the particles works exactly won't help when a hundred types of subatomic particles, all with different characteristics are created every second.

The problem thus is, you can't predict what kind of high energy particle is going to be created, to counteract it.

[Alexein]

would the Zero point modules have the same problem? and if so how did they fix it? if not what makes them controllable?

[Steve_the_Wraith]

would the Zero point modules have the same problem? and if so how did they fix it? if not what makes them controllable?

Zero Point Modules do have the same problems BUT they occur in a cut off universe which can't effect this one so the instability doesn't matter

[Whatazarian]

The instability of the project Arturus device was far greater than that of a Zero Point Module. The self contained region of subspace that a ZPM draws it's energy from is much smaller, so it's easier to predict, and compensate for sudden imbalances, while the ZPE drawn from our own space time is massive, and much more unstable.