S10: Critique & Contemplation

[Skydiver]

the cynical part of me says that there's a very good reason for daniel to back vala

a) even though he says no, i'm willing to bet that there is a part of him that is flattered by her attention. And remember this might be a flaw of daniel's. Remember shyla? the princess he had to save in need? The one whose charms he fell under so much he nearly got his team killed? Remember Kira, the destroyer of worlds? He backed her too.

dude seems to have a weak spot for females.

and those that know end of s9/s10 spoilers know that there's another reason for daniel to back vala

Spoiler:

gotta back and save the mommy of hte super sprog

I have a funny feeling that this alledged landry/daniel debate is little more than a white wash to shud down those that complain about the silly blind acceptance of this not so trustworthy character.

about vala's only redeeming factor is that she doesn't seem to be willing to kill to get what she wants.

[LaCroix]

While I don't want this to become an "I hate Daniel" thread, there are other things about him this season I find disturbing. From Prototype:

WOOLSEY: It almost sounds like you might find it in yourself… to forgive me…
JACKSON: …no.

Now if this were Jack, I could see this conversation happening because Jack's a lot more jaded and can hold a pretty mean grudge (see 2010 for a 10 year grudge or Evolution or Matter of Time for grudges held for even longer than that). But Daniel?

He was at one time the most compassionate individual and always saw the other person's side and took their feelings into account. Even in The Other Side when Sam got distracted by her military leanings, Daniel humanized the situation and got her to see the flip side of the matter.

It was just really dissapointing for me to hear him say that he would not ever find it in his heart to forgive Woolsey who made bad decisions for the right reasons. I could understand him being upset but the answer I was expecting was something like: "Maybe one day"...meaning "I can't forgive you now, but give it time because you're heart was in the right place." I find it disturbing that he's become more judgmental of others and frankly a bit hypocritical. I mean Daniel and ALL of SG-1 for that matter have done the same on numerous occasions.

And now to learn that we're in store for a darker Daniel in Season 10???

Here's my problem with all this. If this was a natural progression of the character from seasons 1-9 and the writing reflected that progression. Then I could see a much more darker side of Daniel in season 10.

But it hasn't. Daniel has always been the moral one. The one looking for another option to avoid conflict between alien races/SGC and other alien races. He's never been the one who emptied a clip into another person/gou'ald, like he did in Protoype.

What I'm begining to wonder if, Sony/Bridge/Sci-Fi wants a darker side to the character or is it the actor himself who wants to stretch his acting muscles? Who knows. JMHO of course.


ETA: I hope that whoever has decided this doesn't take it too far, because fandom's are already spilt enough. Any more, then there will be no fandom left.

[Seshat]

I was a BIG Daniel fan. His story was the reason I became so involved in the show in the first place. But I've seen so many changes in the character this season (in his reactions, his behavior, his language, his choices, his new lack of compassion) that he is almost unrecognizable to me. They should have not only changed the name of the show, they should have changed the name of the character.

I honestly think that the inconsistencies in the writing this season stem from the fact that they don't know WHERE they are planning to go with the characters, and decided to shake things up by having them show "new sides" to their personalities. If this is Daniel's "new side" then, yuck. It is a real turn-off to me.

If this is some kind of long set-up to another "evil Daniel" or some such then it is being written as poorly as the explanation for Jack's new job. (What explanation you say? Ummm...yeah. That's the point.) I seem to recall Joe saying something (paraphrasing here) about writing Jack's departure ambiguously in order to leave more options open for his return should he do another guest spot. They didn't want to be tied down to one explanation so that they would have the ability to fit his character's return into any plot they wanted with less trouble and less expository explanation. What they seem to forget with this policy is that it leaves too many unanswered questions for the longtime viewer and IT DOESN"T MAKE ANY SENSE.

I think that might be what is happening with the "new Daniel". They don't have any clear idea what they are planning to do with him (or anyone) in S10, so they are just leaving everything open. It makes me want to hit them over the head with the series "canon bible" and say, "Get a clue about the character's motivations! Read this!"

[ShadowMaat]

I loved Daniel... right up until season 5, where he started coming across as pissy and demanding and far too arrogant for my tastes (Summit/Last Stand really pushed it for me). I haven't liked him since and everything more I learn about him in these latter seasons makes me dislike him more. He's gone from being my absolute favorite character to being one of my LEAST favorite.

Change may be inevitable, but that doesn't mean things are changing for the better, and for me, Daniel has only changed for the worse.

[Kirara]

I read this on the Solutions forum and was bothered by it (go figure)o...let me get this straight.

Daniel, who was assaulted and held hostage by this woman on more than one occasion, will be arguing for Vala to join the team? Btw just for clarity's sake...I like Vala and think as of TPTB she makes for a more interesting character. I just don't see her as a "team player" so far...more of an opportunistic lone wolf type which would have a tough go at fitting into a structured military team.

This same Daniel who canonly has argued for Sam to lead the team in the past and, to the best of our knowledge, has had nothing to say about a gate noob leading the team over Sam is going to go to bat for Vala joining the team?

Who is he and what happened to Daniel Jackson? Was it the ascending thing or was it dying too many times? I barely recognize him anymore.

Oh my...always when I think it can´t going worser the next blow comes.
Since season 7 I had sometimes the feeling that the real Daniel died in "Meridian" and this guy who "returned" in "Fallen" was a creature created with the memories of the real Daniel Jackson by Oma or Anubis. I suppose now I have the proof for it.

But it´s all not true...in Jacks pond was a fish and the real SG 1 is still lost in time.

[Seshat]

I loved Daniel... right up until season 5, where he started coming across as pissy and demanding and far too arrogant for my tastes (Summit/Last Stand really pushed it for me). I haven't liked him since and everything more I learn about him in these latter seasons makes me dislike him more. He's gone from being my absolute favorite character to being one of my LEAST favorite.

Change may be inevitable, but that doesn't mean things are changing for the better, and for me, Daniel has only changed for the worse.

I used to feel (S1-7) that Daniel was the "brakes" for Jack's character. The "humanity and the compassion" touchstone for the uber-military mentality. But now with Jack gone, I almost feel it was the other way around. Or maybe it's just that pieces of Jack's personality have been awkwardly pasted onto Daniel. Regardless, it just doesn't work for me.

[Nem2k]

Or maybe it's just that pieces of Jack's personality have been awkwardly pasted onto Daniel

yeah it feels like the writers had to write a lot of Jackisms into other characters just to make up for RDA leaving, which makes sense, but I think theyve done it to the point where those other characters have changed drastically like in the case of Daniel...I dont see him as the compassionate type anymore which was the thing I loved about him. he was very well grounded in reality, he could see past the obstacles that were right infront of him and he was willing to give things a chance

maybe someone should start up another save daniel jackson campaign

[ToasterOnFire]

But it´s all not true...in Jacks pond was a fish and the real SG 1 is still lost in time.

Ah yes, the fall-back plan.

I'll add my voice and agree that Daniel doesn't seem like Daniel recently, especially in season nine. He just seems colder and crankier and more apathetic. If he truly is the "heart and soul" of SG1 we're in for a bumpy ride.

[SimilarCadence]

Here's my problem with all this. If this was a natural progression of the character from seasons 1-9 and the writing reflected that progression. Then I could see a much more darker side of Daniel in season 10.

But it hasn't. Daniel has always been the moral one. The one looking for another option to avoid conflict between alien races/SGC and other alien races. He's never been the one who emptied a clip into another person/gou'ald, like he did in Protoype.

What I'm begining to wonder if, Sony/Bridge/Sci-Fi wants a darker side to the character or is it the actor himself who wants to stretch his acting muscles? Who knows. JMHO of course.


ETA: I hope that whoever has decided this doesn't take it too far, because fandom's are already spilt enough. Any more, then there will be no fandom left.

I've actually always been more of a Daniel fan than an MS fan, although I loved how MS fleshed out Daniel throughout the original series. I don't think it's a stretch to believe that MS may be pulling for these changes. He's been playing the same role for nine seasons now. Actors get antsy. My personal opinion is that MS is tired of playing canon-Daniel. I 've read interviews in the past with MS referring to Daniel as the resident (SG-1) "maiden in distress" and "wussy" (or something *similar* to that). Those are not the terms an actor uses when he loves the character he's playing.... I can imagine he wants to flex his muscles---maybe Dark Daniel is his idea. He has influence with TPTB at Bridge. I've read that it was his request to end the Sha're arc which they ended up doing, so they do listen to him.

I have to admit that I think it's reasonable to assume that Daniel, the frustrated idealist, could turn dark, cynical and severely disillusioned due to his experiences with Oma and the Ascended. They turned out to be, morally speaking, huge disappointments for the very moral Daniel. After all, he had put them up on a pretty high pedestal....

So do I like the idea of Dark Daniel? No. But I can see where MS might think it would be a great role to sink his teeth into....

I agree that Daniel has changed for the worse. If this were happening on some other show with characters I had only a passing interest in, I might find the darkness angle interesting, maybe even intriguing. But the reason I kept coming back to Stargate in the first place was because I loved the characters as they were. As a matter of fact, Daniel was the character I identified (past tense) with the most. I accept that characters may change over time and new characters added, but I'll only go along with it if it makes sense to me, as a fan.....

[Skydiver]

i also tend to see the changes in daniel to be changes the actor wants or is campaigning for.

look how MS has changed daniel's simple physical appearance in the past several years. first it was cutting his hair. yes, it was initially because of him doing hamlet, but he made the choice not to grow it back.

the actor tends not to wear daniel's glasses, he's had a concentrated effort to bulk up, with ms spending time with cj in the gym. he's shown a preference for playing off vala, which kinda puts daniel in a studly role (the resident chick wants him....that's studly in my book )

MS appears, in the interpretation of some, to be doing his level best to 'manly' up daniel. And, to some, a more forceful and, again to some, colder personality can be seen as more masculine instead of a submissive 'let me work for peace against the mean military' type.

I think it's very possible that MS is tired of playing the damsel in distress and is trying to pump up Daniel

[Zoser]

booooo! sorry, big sam fan here

I like Sam, that is kick-ass Sam, too.
I wanted to see her take control of SG-1, maybe even see alittle conflict with Cam over it.

[STARGATE7777]

I am going to repeat what I said on the thread about Joe wasting season nine. They are also debating the changes with Daniel. I think that Daniel Jackson ascended and came back Michael Shanks.....I liked Daniel Jackson.

[Zoser]

Here's the thing, Skiffy might claim that right for airing the longest running Sci-Fi show in the US. But all the credit goes to a little pay network called Showtime for having the stones to air it.

It may have been a better show if it had remained on Showtime - more mature plots - not the drivel of Season9.

[Zoser]

Balance is the key. And if a show is primarily plot driven, as SG1 appears to be, then it's jarring when relationships become the focus. Think Law and Order, for example (plot driven) vs. NYPD Blue (character driven).

People watch shows for varying reasons. Sure, you have to like the characters to even be interested in the plot but I suspect most people watch SG1 because of the external stuff like adventure, vs the more internal stuff like character motivations and desires.

I still watch Law and Order (although the world doesn't end if I miss it) but the last few years of NYPD Blue I stopped watching cause I just didn't care about those people anymore.
With Stargate I love a good plot but also care about the people. Where are Hammond, Cassie and Jack? I morn

Spoiler:

Jacob and Janet

. Why was Sam passed over for command and why did she let it happen? The woman we met in the first episode would not have stood for that.
I'm starting not to care.

[Zoser]

for me, the introduction of the prometheus was cool, but with it we lost that sense of reality. somehow the show just became less believable with earth having a bigass spaceship because up until that point, we could still very easily believe everything was happening on earth in the modern day

One of my favorite aspects of the show was that it was happening in our time.