Cylon-isms--subtle & obvious Cylon clues

[montrealercomgate]

Episode 2x09-Flight of the Pheonix-0Cylon Adama: Father/Cmd William vs Son/Cpt Lee

• My gut indicates that both are cylons and are programmed to be human or at least, the son is. However, espisode 2x09 Flight of the Pheonix had interesting scenes that validate the Father as a definitle Cylon.
  
• Before finding this site, the series left its own logic bomb in my brain, one of its threads is that the Cyclon attack fleet's purpose was to 'convince' the crew of Sharon's worth so that the crew do not terminate her and her pregnancy. Top priority. The scene that indicates Adama is in on it is after she transmits the virus that deactivates the cyclon attack fleet. A
  
• Adama & Sharon smile at each other
  
• When Cmd Adama instructs the gaurd to, "take this thing back to its cell," he seems to flash a tiny but quick smile from the right corner of his mouth. Immediately after, from the left corner of her mouth, Sharon flashes back a quick smile that is seen in the of the red light's glow .
  
• Immediately after this "exchange" there is the usual ominous music played when intrigue occurs.

Starbuck & Lee's Cylon-ness at Firing Range:

1. Lee & Starbuck last much longer without oxygen when the firing range is depressurized by the cylon virus. Hotdog passes out right away....

Epsiode 2xo2-Valley of Darkness--Lee's nonCylon-ness

• Near the start, shows aone of the Cylon metal robots about to kill Lee but a marine blows the robot's head off before it can gut Lee with its claws. Would this not disqualify Lee as a cylon? The chrome toasters would probably know.
  
• If Lee were a cylon would the robot try to kill him...? Probably not, it knew Godfrey/Number 6 the hot blonde with some.
  
• When Sharon shot the commander, if she really wanted him dead she would have shot him in the head... her progamming made her wound, not kill him. It's definitely the commander or it sure looks like it.

Crashdown's Cylon-ness.

• Everything he wants to do risked the remaining members of the team.
  
• Not worrying about the guy with the burned lungs.
  
• Wanting to move to high ground.
  
• Leaving the supplies.
  
• Wanting to send the one guy alone to get the med pack.
  
• Ordering the attack against the robot cylons.
  
• Not wanting to take out the radar dish--easier mission that would possibly save both the people on the ground and the rescue mission.
  
• Threatening to kill Cally.

Episode 2x04-Resistance--Cheif's Syloness

• The blood, the blood, the blood. Watch the drop. Either he's a cylon or the director is trying to illustrate how cimilar humans & cylons are.
  
• However, a bit after this scene's beginning, Starbuck's comment about Cylon's to Helo, "they sure do bleed good," also reinforces the blood-similarity theory.
  
• Both Chief and Sharon leak blood like sieves.
  
• Chief bleeds and a drop sprays when it hits the floor after Tigh stikes him with his flask during interrogation.
  
• Sharon's blood comes out her mouth despite being hit below th lungs and away from the digestive tract.

[Mefusta]

You make some really interesting points...

...Commander Adama being a Cylon would be... something of an 'ultimate betrayal' for both the Fleet, and us fans too. That's not neccessarily a bad thing, but it would take some guts to pull it off. The scenes you've highlighted do make a good case towards him being a Cylon, but I always saw that 'half-smile' and such as "you've now earned back my trust/respect... even though you're a Toaster" kinda thing, hardly a sign of any collaboration of sorts.

Regarding Starbuck & Lee's cases, they're not too great. Lee of course was almost killed by Centurions, as you pointed out disqualifies him from Cylon-dom, not to mention the fact that he's the pseudo-hero of the blimmin' show, so it would make very little sense both creatively and monetarily to make him a bad-guy. Starbuck... well... in 2x05, she was held in that 'Farm' back on Caprica, so that would pretty much eliminate any conjecture that she could be a Cylon Agent.

Crashdown... well... he's dead, end of story...

And finally, the Chief... well... I just don't like the idea of him being a Cylon. The blood motiff you've pointed out make a flimsy case at best, and I just saw the blood splattering to the floor as, what you've already noted, showing how similar the Humano-Cylons are to homegrown Humans.

...Also, we don't know exactly where and how badly Boomer was hit when Callie shot her, and blood coming from the mouth after being shot is always what happens in movies/television when someone is shot/punched/kicked in the Torso...

But still, good eye, I missed that whole Adama/Boomer smiling-out-of-the-corner-of-their-mouths thing, and actually had to check that out after I read it to be sure you weren't making it up!

[Chricton]

Most of the points you made seem to make sense, but another one I noticed was when Sharon shot Adama, Geata smiled at her just before she pulled her gun.

And Crashdown being dead doesn't mean a thing.

The only theory that doesn't really hold its own is the Chiefs. I really hope he isn't a Cylon.

[MASON]

The only theory that doesn't really hold its own is the Chiefs. I really hope he isn't a Cylon.

Now Tyrol doesn't make any sense to me, he was having an affair with a Cylon, how likely is it that two Cylons would sleep with each other? That would be completely unproductive(double entendre ).

It could explain why Sharon was never impregnated by Tyrol, but her objective was always to earn the love of a human being, not that of another Cylon.

Now Gaeta seems the likely sort:

• He's in a strategic and tactical position, with influence throughout the ship.

• He shook Boomer's hand before she shot Adama (a trigger, perhaps, for Sharon's Cylon programming?).

• He's co-ordinated most of the jumps.

• He had no life outside of his career.

If Adama proved to be a Cylon, I'd lose all faith in the writing of the show, what a disappointment that would be. My rule of thumb is that if the character participated in the first Cylon War, then he can't be a Cylon.

[Crichton]

Episode 2x09-Flight of the Pheonix-0Cylon Adama: Father/Cmd William vs Son/Cpt Lee[LIST][*]Near the start, shows aone of the Cylon metal robots about to kill Lee but a marine blows the robot's head off before it can gut Lee with its claws. Would this not disqualify Lee as a cylon? The chrome toasters would probably know.

If attempted murder/assassination disqualifies you from being a cylon then under this reasoning Cmd Adama is also not a Cylon since he definetly was attacked by Cylons; and they almost suceeded.

[Crichton]

If Adama proved to be a Cylon, I'd lose all faith in the writing of the show, what a disappointment that would be. My rule of thumb is that if the character participated in the first Cylon War, then he can't be a Cylon.

That's good reasoning, human Cylons weren't even around then. Also, we've seen him age in flashbacks, do human Cylons age normally?? I'm not sure they do. Well, nevermind...I guess Baltar will eventually have a Cylon kid, oops half Cylon/half human, maybe then they'd age normally. So Lee can't be a Cylon either since Cmd Adama obviously saw him grow up from infancy.

[Caprice]

when Sharon shot Adama, Geata smiled at her just before she pulled her gun.

Well, she did just return from blowing up a basestar... might have had something to do with that.

[voigtstr]

What about how Gaeta and Boomer's hands move toward each other, the camera lowers, but doesnt lower enough to show if something was handed to Boomer. Watch the scene again, its quite odd.

[Caprice]

What about how Gaeta and Boomer's hands move toward each other, the camera lowers, but doesnt lower enough to show if something was handed to Boomer. Watch the scene again, its quite odd.

I'm not sure about an object being handed to her, but I'm quite sure the firearm used to shoot the Commander was the same one she blew the side of her face off with... so I'd guess the gun wasn't the thing handed to her.

I'd likey expect that it was a handshake rather than and object trading hands... but I'd have to watch the episode and take a closer look to say for sure.

[Jonisa]

Episode 2x09-Flight of the Pheonix-0Cylon Adama: Father/Cmd William vs Son/Cpt Lee[LIST][*]My gut indicates that both are cylons and are programmed to be human or at least, the son is. However, espisode 2x09 Flight of the Pheonix had interesting scenes that validate the Father as a definitle Cylon.

In a rather recent interview, Ron Moore stated that

Spoiler:

Cylons aren't "copies" of any human. They're all originals. I'm guessing that means that Lee's out as a Cylon, simply because he's the only character that we know of that has a childhood history on the show. People have seen him grow up, and the Cylons can't clone him and replace him. Presumably that leaves out Bill Adama as well, as Cylons haven't been able to father a child.

I'm sure someone will find a way to bust a hole in my theory, but it makes me happy. Especially because I was harboring worries about Lee myself, and now I'm not. Well, not as much anyway.

[MASON]

In a rather recent interview, Ron Moore stated that

Spoiler:

Cylons aren't "copies" of any human. They're all originals. I'm guessing that means that Lee's out as a Cylon, simply because he's the only character that we know of that has a childhood history on the show. People have seen him grow up, and the Cylons can't clone him and replace him. Presumably that leaves out Bill Adama as well, as Cylons haven't been able to father a child.

Good to know. Where did you hear/read/see that interview?

[Jonisa]

Good to know. Where did you hear/read/see that interview?

I found it here: http://www.thefandom.com/Article50.phtml

It's an audio interview, and the salient point is that

Spoiler:

Cylons are not copies of already existing humans. There isn't a human Boomer out there somewhere. Never was. I suppose it's more my interpretation then that that rules out Lee and Bill Adama. However, I like that particular interpretation, so I'm sticking with it for now.

[voigtstr]

I reckon that opens it up for Dualla
and posibly Gaeta, what do we know about his background?

[MASON]

I reckon that opens it up for Dualla
and posibly Gaeta, what do we know about his background?

I agree about Gaeta.

The most damning evidence so far is the weirdness of his tatoo.

And, since I have a feeling that the Humano-Cylons don't hang around together (read: don't sleep together), we are looking at a situation where Dualla or Billy could be a Cylon, not both.

Oh and from the interview, that Jonisa posted, at The Fandom by Chase Masters interviewing Ronald D. Moore,

Spoiler:

Moore confides that Ellen Tigh is definitely human, in line with the idea that Cylons are not copies of humans. But he does note that each Cylon tends to represent a different personality archetype (could this mean a different member of the Zodiac?).

So the interview is worth downloading. It's also funny to hear RDM talking about how crazy we can get in the forums, but I think he's generally referring to BSG TOS fans.