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absmith
October 19th, 2005, 05:50 PM
Hello all, this is my first post to the forum - I did a few searches and didn't see this subject yet, so...

Thought occurred to me that they will run out of jumpers if they keep getting them trashed, plus I bet earth would like to have a couple handy. Since Atlantis is huge, I'm sure there is room in the future story line for a jumper production plant.

I used to be a big fan (not since season 4) of Andromeda. Something I always liked was the self sufficient nature of the ship. In episode 206, after firing their entire load of missiles, the Andromeda AI (now Dr. Lam) says "That's our entire offensive payload", and captain Hunt replies "We'll find you a nice asteroid field when we're done so you can make more." link: http://home.neo.rr.com/nikojen/transcript/ATH.txt

You probably know where I am going with this.

I'd assume since Atlantis was semi portable they would plan such manufacturing into the city. So maybe in a future episode when exploring the full blown, and powered up city - they could come across a manufacturing plant for varieties of the PJ. I'd think there would be standard models and perhaps specialty fighter models that take much longer to construct.

What it could add to the story:
- More searching for raw materials. Maybe earth would have to mine and send some parts.
- Less regret of sending a remote controlled ship on a suicide mission.
- "Half developed"/"on the drawing board" more advanced models that were being conceived near the end of the Wraith war. (see below P.S.)

How they are manufactured:
Since the ancients seemed to be so good with matter-energy-matter conversion, I can't see all the parts being assembled like they are today in an assembly line. Meaning, with applicable energy I'd assume you could just create a jumper from scratch (maybe minus energy source) using a stargate with pre-programmed matter matrix (hate to use that over-used word). But, of course that wouldn't work for the story because they'd just bring in a hundred mark-II naquida generators and suddenly they'd have unlimited ships to send back to earth and use against the Wraith. So, maybe certain pieces & parts can be created via energy-matter conversion, but others need to be supplied.

In thread 4162 http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=4162 (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=4162)a jelly fish asked why puddle jumpers don't have hyperdrives. Perhaps the Eddie Bauer (sic) edition could have a moderate hyperdrive, with cramped quarters in the rear compartment - like the PJ with the time travel engine. This would add an interesting concept to the story line if you could only put 2-3 people in one of these long range PJ's vs 8-14 people.


Caveats:
- Can't be easy to manufacture mass amounts of them (mentioned above).
- They can probably make the missiles that the PJs and the central Atlantis defense chair launches too. Likely it would cost massive amounts of energy to build these to keep the story going where they suddenly don't have an unlimited arsenal.

P.S. Something else I liked about Andromeda was the concept of Anti-Gravity on the outer hull. If you have the ability to create gravity with-in your ship - it's likely you can create anti-gravity. On Andromeda the outer hull was charged with anti-gravity so an approaching missile and it's explosion would be pushed away from the ship. With as advanced as the PJs are, maybe an "upgraded" model could be later found in the manufacturing plant's database that supported an AG field and perhaps a minor shield. After all, if they can build a slightly larger than an egg human shield (Dr. McKay), I'd think a PJ could have a enough juice to power something that could take a hit from a death glider (Mobius part 2).

Thanks.

Kralizec
October 19th, 2005, 09:05 PM
Interesting. I too, would like to see a manufacturing plant, but I don't think that we'll see one any time soon. You have a good concept laid out and I think the writers could do many things with what you've put forth.
Respectfully,

helio9
October 19th, 2005, 11:47 PM
Nah we won't see it. For the same reason that we won't ever find a Stargate Manufacturing plant. I'm sure there was one at some point, but the show just can't handle the implications. Anyplace that is a manufacturing point for ancient tech of any kind is too valuable, everyone in the galaxy will be all over it, it'll create massive chaos all over the place, etc. In other words it's like finding the holy grail...it's too powerful to put in the show.

SmallTimePerson
October 20th, 2005, 04:35 AM
MOst of the production plants, outside atlantis, in the PG would be destroyed due to the wraith's war

Eoin
October 20th, 2005, 05:34 AM
I'd like to see ancient manufacturing plants only in an AR episode, just to see what they looked like and how they work etc. etc.

But i wouldnt want them to be in Atlantis right now because it would give us a great advantage over the wraith, which would give us no story, it'd be like

Dr. Weir, we came in contact with the wraith today and they read teyla's mind and they learned where we are, but no need to worry since we're able to make more ancient ships and weapons, we just destroyed the hve ship so nothing to worry about:rolleyes:

:)

BTW...Welcome the forum absmith :D

hyzmarca
October 20th, 2005, 06:12 AM
I'd like to see ancient manufacturing plants only in an AR episode, just to see what they looked like and how they work etc. etc.

But i wouldnt want them to be in Atlantis right now because it would give us a great advantage over the wraith, which would give us no story, it'd be like

Dr. Weir, we came in contact with the wraith today and they read teyla's mind and they learned where we are, but no need to worry since we're able to make more ancient ships and weapons, we just destroyed the hve ship so nothing to worry about:rolleyes:

:)

BTW...Welcome the forum absmith :D

Not really, you still have to have someone to man the weapons. Even if they were able to manufacture a fleet warsips it wouldn't do much good without a crew that can opperate them.

Eoin
October 20th, 2005, 06:16 AM
Not really, you still have to have someone to man the weapons. Even if they were able to manufacture a fleet warsips it wouldn't do much good without a crew that can opperate them.
Well 1: their doing a good job now at operating ancient tech
2: whats the point in building the ships if no one can operate them :S

:)

Three PhDs
October 20th, 2005, 09:49 AM
I wouldn't imagine there'd be a plant there, just as an aircraft carrier doesn't have an F-14 manufacturing plant. Maybe I'm wrong though.

skritsys
October 20th, 2005, 10:45 AM
I would think they would have the plans for the jumpers in the database somewhere buried, and that once they discover that, then they will be able to possibly build more using imported materials from Earth or something.

absmith
October 20th, 2005, 01:15 PM
Nah we won't see it......Anyplace that is a manufacturing point for ancient tech of any kind is too valuable, everyone in the galaxy will be all over itGood points, however - I think Atlantis is completely tempting to others with or without a PJ assembly line.

MOst of the production plants, outside atlantis, in the PG would be destroyed due to the wraith's war .... Or, they are still hidden away :) The ancients seemed to be quite good at hiding things.

But i wouldnt want them to be in Atlantis right now because it would give us a great advantage over the wraith, which would give us no story If you noticed from the big fight in the season premire, the Wraith adapted to the "beaming a nuke on board" trick quickly enough, and I'm sure they would adapt to flying a stealth PJ in quickly enough. Their race is pretty old, I'm sure they've come across quite a few tricky races. It seems more that they get lazy when unchallenged for so long.
I wouldn't imagine there'd be a plant there, just as an aircraft carrier doesn't have an F-14 manufacturing plant. Maybe I'm wrong though.
I can't remember the exact size of Atlantis, but last I checked an aircraft carrier wasn't the size of Manhattan. Isn't Atlantis a couple miles in Diameter? I can't remember. Even if it was one mile in diameter that's plenty o' space for a building that could produce Ancient technology. Also, I don't think equating Atlantis to a aircraft carrier is completely right. Remember, they only really moved Atlantis one time - from Earth to PG. At least thats what the story says so far. Update 2/7/2006 http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=23768 - size question answered

One related idea - maybe instead of discovering a jumper plant on Atlantis, they'll find a semi-working manufacturing ship that can go to a planet/asteroid field/etc and mine materials automatically. Sure this is kind of big thinking, but the Ancients always thought big didn't they? As advanced as they were I can't see them ever using manual labor. I actually can't see the Goa'old having slave planets do it either with their level of technology, but it makes for a story :)

Thanks everyone for your input and welcomes.

Turboz
October 20th, 2005, 01:18 PM
I think it's quite likely that at some point we're going to see the PJ's factory. As someone stated they are going to run out at some time if they don't make more.

With regards to the comment about the stargate factory I think it would be cool if it WAS found but becomes destroyed.

EG, the plant has been making stargates automatically for 10'000 years with a powerplant which hasn't been maintained due to lack of ancient engineers. Perhaps the energy plant could become unstable in the middle of a wraith/Ori fight to gain control over the factory and then BOOOOOOM.

The fight for power over it ultimately destroys it just after the SG team manage to download the database containing the information to build them. OF course in reality it would take them another season to make any use of this database so they'd still have a show which isn't too "easy".

-Turboz

Turboz
October 20th, 2005, 01:24 PM
Yeah I just realised that your right. According to the story the city did only move 1 time.

Maybe they built the city on a platform to avouid earthquakes etc. Then they decided to move to another galaxy and so made modifications to the city in order to take it with them.

Personally I think there's far more flights to it than 1. Remember in the premiere, we see Atlantis lift off from the outpost?

Atlantis seemed to be seated on the outpost like a Gou'ald ship on a pyramid. If you watch the scene again you can see as the city takes off from around the outpost, there are 5 or 6 outpost tunnels in the centre of the city. This would indicate that there were other outposts that the city moved to OR that they manufactured outposts inside the city, landed, fixed it to the ground and then left again.

-Turboz

absmith
October 20th, 2005, 07:53 PM
Turboz,

I like the way you think. True, there would be a stargate factory and I really like your thought about it staying online and producing by itself. I think it should be written that it shut down after a couple thousand years but produced thousands of stargates that have no addresses programmed into them yet. I'm not sure I agree with it being faught over and destroyed only for the fact that I've seen this in too much writing lately.

I.E. The ancient knowledge repository that O'Niell stuck his face in (again) in season 8, the ancient space gun, the ancient ship (where they were all stuck in VR land), the Goa'old mothership they stole in season six, etc. I sometimes feel like they blow up things to keep from having to deal with the story. -- However, your point about them having the data needed to build a gate/PJ/Drone would create a story line for the future. I think it would be 10-20 years before they could even begin to replicate anything.

Yea, the city only moved once but there is nothing said thus far that has suggested they didn't move around a bit before settling where they are now. As good of engineers as the story shows, I'm sure they could have plunked the city down about anywhere.

Regardless of where the writers take it, the need will remain to have more drone missiles, replacement jumpers, and likely extra gates. An on-Atlantis factory, or a off world automatic plant would be a good story line. I like when the writers think *BIG*. If matter can be converted to energy, and energy back into matter - wouldn't the ancients just have blue prints and pop out devices from a stargate type device? Maybe it would take massive amounts of energy to do so, putting limits on the story so they couldn't be produced on a whim.

Remember when Thor created the replicator bug zapper in "New Order Part 2", then retrofitted his ship. He created devices straight out of the computers memory using (I assume) just energy.

skritsys
October 21st, 2005, 07:43 AM
Unless of course the PJ plant is buried on Earth where Atlantis was originally. Might it have been underneath Atlantis? The writers always tend to find someway to keep Earth as a focal point anyway. Maybe somewhere down the line SG-1 and Atlantis may find something that points back to Earth.

absmith
October 24th, 2005, 07:37 PM
Thats an idea too. Although with the subsurface scanning ability of Prometheus, haven't they managed to scan the entire planet to search for hidden things by now?

I would like to see a scene someday where they haul the earth gate to the surface, open the gate from Atlantis to earth and out come 20 puddle jumpers for use on earth.

helio9
October 24th, 2005, 11:11 PM
Thats an idea too. Although with the subsurface scanning ability of Prometheus, haven't they managed to scan the entire planet to search for hidden things by now?

I would like to see a scene someday where they haul the earth gate to the surface, open the gate from Atlantis to earth and out come 20 puddle jumpers for use on earth.
Lol That would be cheap, PJs are too powerful in the MW. They'd own everyone. Jack tookout a Hat'ak with 2 freaking drones. Two. They would instantly own the Jaffa, the ori would be the only threat as they have similar or superior tech.


there would be a stargate factory and I really like your thought about it staying online and producing by itself. I think it should be written that it shut down after a couple thousand years but produced thousands of stargates that have no addresses programmed into them yet.Thats not how stargates work, as evidences back in season one when Apophis had a stargate on his ship. Stargates don't have addresses programmed into them, when you have a stargate at a given location, you're not dialing another gate, you're dialing another region of space. If there happens to be another stargate near that location, it locks on to it and a wormhole is established. You can move stargates at will, with no need to adjust anything.

GreatSpinningRoundThing
October 25th, 2005, 03:45 PM
If puddle jumpers are to be constant and expendible presence in the series then there will come a time when we must see them being made. This is the problem that ST:Voyager faced. eventually the writers had to show that the crew could and did create other new shuttle craft. Who knows, maybe we will never see a puddle jumper manufacturing technology, because there is a giant room in Atlantis containing thousands of puddlejumpers; how the Ancients could use thousands of puddle jumpers with a single stargate would be a difficult probelm to explain.


Anyplace that is a manufacturing point for ancient tech of any kind is too valuable, everyone in the galaxy will be all over it, it'll create massive chaos all over the place, etc. In other words it's like finding the holy grail...it's too powerful to put in the show.

But isn't this precisely a description of Atlantis? It went to the Pegasus galaxy and and was the sead of Ancient civilization there. Numerous examples of Ancient technology have been found in Pegasus -- Included installations, ships, and weapons, that did on Atlantis, but were apparantly created in Pegasus. It seems reasonable to concluded then that Atlantis carried with it the tools to create these objects.

You describe a manufacturing point of ancient technology as something of a Holy Grail. Isn't that what the SGC imagined it to be? Isn't that how the international commitee still treats it?


I'm sure there was one at some point, but the show just can't handle the implications.

I agree with this point. It remains to be seen how the writers end up treating the Ori.



But i wouldnt want them to be in Atlantis right now because it would give us a great advantage over the wraith, which would give us no story

I don;y agree with this view. If such manufacturing technology still exists, It existed at the time of the Ancient-Wraith war. It turns out that it did not give a great advantage to the Ancients -- they lost. How could it give a great advantage to the humans who are verly unlikely to be able to put it to as great advantage as the Ancients could.

I am of the opinion that introducing such capabilites would only serve to increase the belivability of the show. Eoin and helio9, I agree with the idea that if the humans were able to muster a defense simular to that of the ancients we would have to shown things about the Wraith that we have not seen before. Specifically, how they managed to defeat the ancients. (Tactics and technology, not just the fact that they were more numerous and caught the ancients with their pants down.)


I wouldn't imagine there'd be a plant there, just as an aircraft carrier doesn't have an F-14 manufacturing plant. Maybe I'm wrong though.

Interesting point. Others have already pointed out that Atlantis is much bigger than an aircraft carrier. I ague that atlantis contained the tools to create Ancient technology. Let us carry on the analogy of the aircraft carrier.

As I understand, one of the factures that limits the length of deployement of a nuclear powered aircraft carrier, is that it will run out of spare parts. I believe the military supports research into rapid prototyping technology with at least the hope that eventually - among other things - air craft carriers may eventually be fitted with machines capable of creating spare parts.

If we can imagine having such a capability in the near term, is it unreasonable to imagine that Atlantis contains the means to create puddle jumpers?

By the way -- Hello all! I am new to the forum. I hope this first post doesn't seem to pretentious.

absmith
October 25th, 2005, 08:55 PM
Lol That would be cheap, PJs are too powerful in the MW. They'd own everyone. Jack tookout a Hat'ak with 2 freaking drones. Two. They would instantly own the Jaffa, the ori would be the only threat as they have similar or superior tech.I'm not saying they have unlimited jumpers or drones. But a group of them yes. They would be reserved for special missions. Don't forget other races will be advancing their shield and craft technology too. I.E. I don't see a drone taking out a Asgard ships shields.


Thats not how stargates work Good point. I thought the DHD had some custom programming per SG, but could be wrong.


By the way -- Hello all! I am new to the forum. I hope this first post doesn't seem to pretentious. Wow. I think your reply was better than my original ideas put together. I like the way you think and I agree. I think people are over estimating the PJ and underestimating the technology the enemy is going to have. Remember that Gerak (Gossett Jr.) is now a prior, which means it's pretty likely he can ask for some Ori class upgrades to his big bad fleet. Perhaps that puts it in perspective for the concern of Earth "owning" all their enemies.

DarkElfa
October 25th, 2005, 10:54 PM
Well they had to make those Pegasus gates somewhere and I doubt they would have done it where they didn't have complete autonomy.

helio9
October 26th, 2005, 12:31 AM
I think people are over estimating the PJ and underestimating the technology the enemy is going to have. Remember that Gerak (Gossett Jr.) is now a prior, which means it's pretty likely he can ask for some Ori class upgrades to his big bad fleet. Perhaps that puts it in perspective for the concern of Earth "owning" all their enemies.
They won't do that. As seen on several eps we see that the Priors are not blind to disloyalty and doubt. They want people to worship them and give up their free will. Thats all the Ori want. Giving millions of Jaffa new tech to play with isn't exactly going to spread the ignorance that they require. Besides, as I'm sure Gerak is aware, I doubt all the Jaffa leaders follow him without question. There would be potential for that new tech to be used against the Ori. Deja vue?lol.




Don't forget other races will be advancing their shield and craft technology too. I.E. I don't see a drone taking out a Asgard ships shields.True, but drone technology is far superior to anything we've seen. The Goauld have sheilds. They drones didnt seem to wear them down at all, they didn't even aknowledge them. The drones just ignored them completly and went through them. In other threads, this has been stated as a reason why the Wraith didnt bother with sheild tech, against drones sheilds are useless. Based on what we've seen in Stargate (both of them), there is no defence against drones. So the ability to produce PJ's armed with them (Or the ability to produce the weapon by itself and mount it on other ships) would likely remain a HUGE advantage for a long, long time.



But isn't this precisely a description of Atlantis? It went to the Pegasus galaxy and and was the sead of Ancient civilization there. Numerous examples of Ancient technology have been found in Pegasus -- Included installations, ships, and weapons, that did on Atlantis, but were apparantly created in Pegasus. It seems reasonable to concluded then that Atlantis carried with it the tools to create these objects.But that goes back to my other point. So far, in the Stargate series as a whole, we've seen some pretty amazing technology, the most amazing being Asgard and Ancient. However, so far we've only managed to reverse engineer a small amount of that technology (basic hyperdrive, inertial dampening, crystal technology, etc). The better stuff we use on the Prometheus and Deadalus were installed by the asgard.
What I'm saying is, on Atlantis, they have pretty much free access to ancient technology. They can take something, disect it, and study it to their heart's content. They can even take it home now and have it studied there by experts in the field. But while they may gain great empirical knowledge about it, they have little to no detailed theoretical knowledge about its inner workings. They don't know why it works. In a computer, granted the average user might not know exactly how it works. But someone out there can explain every aspect of it, essentially why it works.
So while we have a lot of nice tech at our disposal, we can't make more simply because we dont understand it.
Thats why a PJ production plant would be too valuable to put into the show. It would probably have preset programs, you choose what you want it to make, give it power, and it makes it. Its too easy. They could modify it, why not make a couple more of those personal sheilds from "Hide and seek" and make their teams invulnerable?

Atlantis is a static system. It has very advanced stuff, but they can't do anything that it's not designed to do. With a PJ production plant, the possibilities are too great. They could arm the Deadalus with drones, and ancient sheilds, they could do many things that would make the show pretty weak plot-wise.
For the reasons above, a PJ production plant would ultimately be much, much more valuable than atlantis.

This is why I'm saying, i'm sure the Ancients had manufacturing facilities somewhere. But we'll never see them, cause the show can't handle it. Sorry guys.

DarkElfa
October 26th, 2005, 10:40 AM
Once again, plot devices have made the possible impossible. You gotta love it!

skritsys
October 26th, 2005, 11:14 AM
Oh drat. I was hoping they would be able to explain what happens after they blow up the first 50 PJ's.

DarkElfa
October 26th, 2005, 11:47 AM
But hey, we're sure good at blowing crap up.

skritsys
October 26th, 2005, 11:49 AM
How many more PJ's can be sacrificed to serve as an element that the team has to overcome to make for a good episode?

Turboz
October 26th, 2005, 02:59 PM
More to the point, how many PJ launch bays are there?

When you look at the city, the central PJ launch bay has an angled roof but there are also others on each pier of the city. Does this mean that they also have other PJ's in storage which haven't yet been accessed?

-Turboz

absmith
October 28th, 2005, 12:10 AM
there is no defence against drones. So the ability to produce PJ's armed with them (Or the ability to produce the weapon by itself and mount it on other ships) would likely remain a HUGE advantage for a long, long time.
Ok, so the wraith faught the ancients for.. at least 100 years. So far (could be wrong) I haven't see a drone destroy a hive ship, and if it did it's likely as I've said in other reply - the wraith going unchallenged for so long most likely makes them a little lazy. Once they go to defcon-uncocky-mode I think drones would be less effective. It seems that the ancients could make plenty of drones and they gave up & lost the war. So, I have to disagree with your statement.


RE: tech... They can even take it home now and have it studied there by experts in the field. But while they may gain great empirical knowledge about it, they have little to no detailed theoretical knowledge about its inner workings. .... because we dont understand it.

I dunno, with the asguard, Tokra, and maybe a new friend or two I bet they could figure a few pieces out. I'm sure in the Atlantis core database someone wrote a "Idiots guide to ancient technology" book. ;-)


This is why I'm saying, i'm sure the Ancients had manufacturing facilities somewhere. But we'll never see them, cause the show can't handle it. Sorry guys.

Are you a writer or producer on the show? ;-) You seem so sure we'll never see it. I'll bet you a $1 double cheese burger from McDonalds we'll see something like this within 10 years. If I lose the best email me and I'll take care of the bet.

helio9
October 28th, 2005, 01:40 AM
Ok, so the wraith faught the ancients for.. at least 100 years. So far (could be wrong) I haven't see a drone destroy a hive ship, and if it did it's likely as I've said in other reply - the wraith going unchallenged for so long most likely makes them a little lazy. Once they go to defcon-uncocky-mode I think drones would be less effective. It seems that the ancients could make plenty of drones and they gave up & lost the war. So, I have to disagree with your statement.Based on what? We've NEVER seen anything even slow down a drone. The wraith numbers may have been so vast that with a battleship runs out of drones (and can't produce them fast enough) they are eventually destroyed. The ancient's were afterall more advanced than the Wraith, and the drones are the most advanced ship-to-ship weapon seen on the whole series (note, we havnt seen what Ori ships can do yet).

Also, in many area's, Asgard tech is superior to Wraith tech, especially in hyperdrive tech (much, much, much more advanced) and beaming tech and such. And they don't seem to be able to reproduce drone like weapons either.




I dunno, with the asguard, Tokra, and maybe a new friend or two I bet they could figure a few pieces out. I'm sure in the Atlantis core database someone wrote a "Idiots guide to ancient technology" book. ;-)Like I said, they know a lot about how things work, not why. Ancient tech seems to be completely different from ours, right down to the basic components of electric circuits (resistors, capacitors, etc). We've never seen something resembling a circuit board in a piece of Ancient tech. With the ease of transportation provided by the Deadalus, samples of tech likely have been taken to earth and analysed. The Tok'ra, while more advanced than us, are still far behind the Asgard and the Ancients. Their level or tech is similar to that of the Goauld, plus some special stuff like symbiote poison and tunnel crystals. And the Asgard are fully aware of what we had there. They've seen Ancient tech before, and have the Ancient database in their possession, but don't seem to be able to do much with it.

As to the "Idiots's guide" thing, the Ancients were highly evolved humans, so an "Idiot" Ancient could have had a human IQ above 250.




Are you a writer or producer on the show? ;-) You seem so sure we'll never see it. I'll bet you a $1 double cheese burger from McDonalds we'll see something like this within 10 years. If I lose the best email me and I'll take care of the bet.
Lol. The weakness of that bet leads me to suspect you know I'm right.:p

Even if we see it, it's one of those things that'll be immediately destroyed. We'll never get to mess with it. Like I said, it's too powerful.

knowles2
November 23rd, 2005, 03:55 PM
I think that we should see a manufacturing plant on atlantis, after all they were going to use atlantis to rebuild their race in PG, and they could not of done this without some manufacturing capabilities.

As to people saying that we would never see this in the show because it would make the show boring, well that is a lame excuse for writers to use. After whole if we had manufacturing plants which produce drones and then the waith launch a massive attack on atlanstis, I am talking about a couple of hundred ships, and as a plot twist it then turn out the waith were not defencless against drones weapons a nice plot twist, we think we got the most poweful weapons, then they turn out to useless, see then we be back to status quo. See just need some creative thinking.

As for there be a dumb down book on ancient tech. Well if we think about this logically then the ancient must of have children, and these must have to be tought about the ancient technology and about ancient phisics,histpry, but they must have started at a very basic level and built them up, but these people got IQ 250 they probably knew all about quantum phisics by the time they were three.

But it would be fun seeing Mackay going to a ancient shool learning about the anicent tech, maybe the ancient were tought by a holographic computer character with all the knowlege of the ancients.

KaptenTrumm
November 23rd, 2005, 09:05 PM
all this is nice but I'am still shadey how the hell they get all this stuff (ammo,food, all those laptops etc) from SGC to Atlantis in 38 min !!! ???
other thing alfa/beta site ... the same thing - its about time to get some city bus type of thing to the show like trailer or something with lots of payload...
the gate room is in th esilo right - so some ropes and sticks and you can lover down big enough truck to load it full of goodies to move different planet like Earth low tech analog of puddle jumper with wheels and stuff :D

----
The Logic Bomb.

Cynicat
November 23rd, 2005, 10:13 PM
all this is nice but I'am still shadey how the hell they get all this stuff (ammo,food, all those laptops etc) from SGC to Atlantis in 38 min !!!

Good organisation, and a lot of spare hands. In "Rising" the camera takes a little tour through the pallets of neatly stacked inventory lining the halls near the gateroom, all shrinkwrapped and ready to go. It's a military base, there are a lot of capable people on hand - assuming once the expedition team had gone through hauling everything they could carry, everyone left back at SGC tossed a box or helped push a pallet through the gate, I've no doubt they would have made it through easily in the time that they had. At some point it's stated they they'd spent months picking personel for the mission, so it stands to reason that they'd spent at least that long preparing the supplies needed.

The trouble came on the other end of the wormhole - limited personel in Atlantis trying to find somewhere to put all that stuff as it came through LOL. Is it any wonder that that the gatroom looks like a warehouse for a while, and in "Hide & Seek" we see supplies stacked up in any available space?

P-90_177
November 24th, 2005, 01:16 AM
I think a PJ production plant would be a good idea but I prefer producing Drones since they are less complex and Atlantis would need to get new ones from somewhere right?

Jarnin
November 24th, 2005, 05:51 AM
I think a PJ production plant would be a good idea but I prefer producing Drones since they are less complex and Atlantis would need to get new ones from somewhere right?
A good idea, but where did you get the notion that drones are easier to manufacture than puddle jumpers?


As for the PJ factory, I doubt there is one in Atlantis. I mean, it would be logical for them to have some kinds of manufacturing system, but we've seen no evidence for it, and it has never been mentioned on the show.
You'd think with the teams resources being limited in the first season, manufacturing and/or replication systems would be the first things they'd be looking for, even if they didn't have the power to run those systems. Instead they ended up going off world for most of their needs.

Now they have the power to run stuff, but they still haven't found any such systems, even though they claimed that since the ZPM was plugged in "all sorts of systems are coming online".

I have a feeling that one of the reasons why they rarely find anything "cool" on Atlantis is due to the fact that they can't find anything too "cool", or they'd be able to whup the Wraiths behind.
That's why the Arcturus power generator thingy was located on "another planet", had it been in Atlantis, they couldn't have had it blow up 3/4ths of the star system.

Futura
November 24th, 2005, 07:04 AM
Someone metioned something about an Aircraft carrier not having a fighterplane manufacturing plant, thats very true but what they do have is a repair plant (could be a differenet name), What i wouldn't mind seeing in Atlantis is a repair plant for PJ's as they must or could get damaged at some ponit and make it back to Atlantis, the Ancients would just throw them out like empty lolly wrappers, I think they would have repaired them thats what the repair plant would be used, or attempted to or even took what they could to salavage, to use for other parts.

One thing I would also like to see, but I'm in the wrong thread for this so I'll shorten this, is an Ancient fighter, they must have at some stage built a ship they could use to combat the Wraith Darts.

Back on the topic, A manufacturing plant for the PJ's on Atlantis is fessable but unlikely to be shown on Atlantis, (someone has already mentioned) is that its too powerful to show, as everybody would want it.

jazz!
November 24th, 2005, 01:06 PM
I wouldn't imagine there'd be a plant there, just as an aircraft carrier doesn't have an F-14 manufacturing plant. Maybe I'm wrong though.

some1 made a point of how large atlantis is and I'd just like to add:

Atlantis is not an aircraft carrier its a - City:p ( that can fly ); so I'm sure the new Ancient community would want the ability to have manufacturing plants on-hand.

I'm sure they wouldn't want to go running to the PG and then create a community from scratch! it's all gotta be in atlantis!



Unless of course the PJ plant is buried on Earth where Atlantis was originally. Might it have been underneath Atlantis? The writers always tend to find someway to keep Earth as a focal point anyway. Maybe somewhere down the line SG-1 and Atlantis may find something that points back to Earth.


yep! there has to be more Ancient goodies stacked away on earth! I mean it was home ( or was it just an outpost: if so where was there HQ in the MW ) to the Altereans for a while!

now that we found 1 Alterean stash, we should find more!

absmith
November 25th, 2005, 06:03 PM
Based on what? We've NEVER seen anything even slow down a drone.Good point. But, then again, if the drones were completely unstoppable to the Wraith then I have a hard time believing the ancients lost the war. Over a 100 year timespan, I'd assume the ancients would have figured out supply and demand with the drones and flooded half the galaxy with drone enabled hunters. I guess my point is, the current story line would seem to sugest that the Wraith learned how to deal with the drones or could take many hits from them.

As to the "Idiots's guide" thing, the Ancients were highly evolved humans, so an "Idiot" Ancient could have had a human IQ above 250.


As for there be a dumb down book on ancient tech. Well if we think about this logically........
The idiots guide could be a tamed down version of the Ancient respository of knowledge mind meld device/interface. Perhaps one that could imprint understanding and knowledge without a complete upload to fry your brain. They would certainly have advanced learning tools. Matter fact, they'd probably have the tools tunned to only feed ya if you had the right genes so the average alien wouldn't suddenly have all the ancient knowledge. A ancient chair seemed to make a good data surfing device too. Remember O'Neill on the lava planet pulling up galaxy maps overhead.

Lol. The weakness of that bet leads me to suspect you know I'm right Na. You just seem so sure I am having a little fun keeping you coming up with answers to fit your position. :-) I kind of get the feeling that if you came up with the PJ factory idea you could debate it the other way just as well.


But it would be fun seeing Mackay going to a ancient shool learning about the anicent ....Oh, like he isn't cocky enough already - "Listen, no one is even capable of understanding this stuff at the same level as I am" (he said something like that before he blew up part of that solar system). :) You could be right tho - it might help him to stop blowing stuff up.


One thing I would also like to see, but I'm in the wrong thread for this so I'll shorten this, is an Ancient fighter, they must have at some stage built a ship they could use to combat the Wraith Darts. I agree. As I said before, a PJ with very tight back quarters because it's loaded with weapons, power supply, shield generator, etc. For story safety make them expensive to build and operate. They could also have minor hyper-drives. If a Goa'uld Tel'tak (cargo ship) can have one you'd assume a decked out PJ model could fit one.

Everyone is so sure they've searched every corner or Atlantis already. Have they? Have the producers ever said the exact diameter of the city? I'd really like to know this.

Exiled Master
November 25th, 2005, 08:33 PM
I don't see how Atlantis couldn't have a shipyard. And even if there isn't one in Atlantis, all their ship schematics must be in the Ancient database. And since the Asgard can manufacture Ancient technology (New Order), they should be able to help produce more Jumpers. Off-topic: Shouldn't there be a Stargate guide to weaponry and ships or something?

helio9
November 26th, 2005, 12:05 AM
I don't see how Atlantis couldn't have a shipyard. And even if there isn't one in Atlantis, all their ship schematics must be in the Ancient database. And since the Asgard can manufacture Ancient technology (New Order), they should be able to help produce more Jumpers. Off-topic: Shouldn't there be a Stargate guide to weaponry and ships or something?
That would be very logical. But it would screw up the story too much. They will never gain the ability to manufacture ancient tech, at least to any significant degree, because
1) whatever allowed them to do that would be too powerful and everyone would want it.
2) they'll whoop everyone, and
3) Stargate itself has been based on humans being the underdog. Here are all there evil people with ships and weapons, and we use guerilla tactics to take them down. They're not likely to stray from that to any significant degree.

jazz!
November 26th, 2005, 04:16 AM
That would be very logical. But it would screw up the story too much. They will never gain the ability to manufacture ancient tech, at least to any significant degree, because
1) whatever allowed them to do that would be too powerful and everyone would want it.
2) they'll whoop everyone, and
3) Stargate itself has been based on humans being the underdog. Here are all there evil people with ships and weapons, and we use guerilla tactics to take them down. They're not likely to stray from that to any significant degree.

So are you saying that at one time (when the ancients were in human form) there would have been the necessary tech/facilities to build/produce ancient tech. - but after ascendeding they took/destroyed/decommisioned the facilities/tools/tech that builds stargates/jumpers/drones.......... so that
a) not misused.
b) only those with sufficient knowledge of understanding the of the ancient DB or repositary can make some Ancient tech on their own!

so we can find the final products of the ancients but not the means of contructing them directly! we have to have 'grown' up enough to do it ourselves! ?

if so, thats annoying but probably true in the SG universe!

helio9
November 26th, 2005, 03:17 PM
So are you saying that at one time (when the ancients were in human form) there would have been the necessary tech/facilities to build/produce ancient tech. - but after ascendeding they took/destroyed/decommisioned the facilities/tools/tech that builds stargates/jumpers/drones.......... so that
a) not misused.
b) only those with sufficient knowledge of understanding the of the ancient DB or repositary can make some Ancient tech on their own!

so we can find the final products of the ancients but not the means of contructing them directly! we have to have 'grown' up enough to do it ourselves! ?

if so, thats annoying but probably true in the SG universe!
That's not at all what I was saying. I'm sure the Ancients had a PJ factory. I'm sure they had a stargate factory to, hell they made thousands of them.

But the producers of the show could not allow something of that magnitude to be introduced, because it would destroy the underlying elements of the plot (stated in my previous posts).

jazz!
November 26th, 2005, 03:29 PM
That's not at all what I was saying. I'm sure the Ancients had a PJ factory. I'm sure they had a stargate factory to, hell they made thousands of them.



in my haste - i may have written down some rubbish! but yep i concurr!

Exiled Master
November 29th, 2005, 12:36 PM
There will probably be some sort of material limit on how much they could produce them. You could have several squadrons of puddlejumpers, but you will still need proper fighters, bombers, destroyers, and cruisers before you could properly challenge the Wraith. But there will be something that will prevent them from taking this sort of offensive for a while.

RA the sun god
December 10th, 2005, 09:25 PM
atlantis will have loads anyway...