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Furyofaseraph
August 30th, 2004, 09:46 AM
Okay, we all know the basic deal: 1-6 are for a location, 7th is a Point of Origin.

So Normal Address:
XXXXXXY
X-Location
Y-Point of Origin

Okay, now from the 5th race and Atlantis we have 8-Chevron address:
XXXXXXAY
X-Location
A-"Area Code" (Galaxy Address)
Y-Point of Origin

Alright, now we have the 9th Chevron which has yet to be used, now here is an idea i read and i kinda like it: an Extension. This would come into play when there is more than one gate in a given area. Now i know you already think: well, duh, that cant be true because we had two gates, and we never needed to use the 9th chevron. Well right you are, because if the Ninth isnt used it goes the to the Primary gate, which so happened to be ours.

Okay, so here is how i think a 9 Gate Address would go.
XXXXXXABY
X-Location
A-"Area Code" (Galaxy Address)
B-"Extension" (Gate Selector)
Y-Point of Origin.

Now if you wanted to go to a planet with more than one gate in the same galaxy you just ignore the area code, which would just mean that it activates a different chevron.

In other words, each chevron has a duty, even in a 8 or 9 glyph address

1-6 are ALWAYS destination glyphs
7 is ALWAYS point of origin
8 is ALWAYS galactic addresses
9 is ALWAYS a gate selector

all thats different is the order the chevrons activate.
for a normal connection its: 1-2-3-4-5-6-7
for a out of galaxy its 1-2-3-4-5-6-8-7
for an extension its 1-2-3-4-5-6-8-9-7 if out of galaxy
for an extension in galaxy is 1-2-3-4-5-6-9-7

okay, what do you think?

SensesFail062
August 30th, 2004, 09:50 AM
good job..you get a gold star!! Like the theory.

Harlan
August 30th, 2004, 09:53 AM
Yeah ! I don't know if this theory is the good one, but it's VERY Interesting I think ;) !

So ... At the time Earth had 2 Stargates, you dial off-world to go on Earth, and so you can select if you want to go to Ra's Egypt or the abandonned Antartica ... that's a quite good idea !

Im_just_guessing
August 30th, 2004, 10:27 AM
This was my idea!!! Atleast give me credit!!











Even if you did get it from a completely different source, I demand recognition!!

Furyofaseraph
August 30th, 2004, 10:44 AM
i wish i could remember where i got the theory, in no way am I taking credit for it.
if it indeed is yours, you deserve the credit, not me.

Furyofaseraph
August 30th, 2004, 10:47 AM
Yeah ! I don't know if this theory is the good one, but it's VERY Interesting I think ;) !

So ... At the time Earth had 2 Stargates, you dial off-world to go on Earth, and so you can select if you want to go to Ra's Egypt or the abandonned Antartica ... that's a quite good idea !

Precisely what the theory says.

aAnubiSs
August 30th, 2004, 11:24 AM
This theory is atleast one year old, since I posted it on delphi one year ago.

Someone else has probably suggested it before me too, it's not a difficult theory to come up with if you think about it.

Calicto
August 30th, 2004, 12:26 PM
The theory is different. However it seems flawed and unlikely. Knowing that using the 8th Chevron takes a whole load of energy, we can establish that the 9th chevron would take up so much more energy. But it would seem pointless then to waste a ZPM just to get to a second gate on some planet! Maybe it would have strategic advantages... but still.. Why?

Alternate Universes are cooler and more likely.

TheAncientOne
August 30th, 2004, 01:14 PM
Alternate Universes are cooler and more likely.


Very cool, though problem with this one is that parallel universes are basically infinite and they represent every conceivable arrangement of quantum units (for lack of a better description for the most fundemental particle in the universe, although strings might be appropriate given the interest in String Theory right now). Since an extremely small portion of these would contain Earth and an even smaller portion of those would contain the Ancients and an infinitely small portion of those would contain the stargate network as it is constituted in this universe, the number of accessible parallel universes would be fairly small relative to the total number of universes (although still a very large number).

Also, based on previous parallel universe episodes of SG1, anyone who travels to a universe where the same matter as themselves (i.e. their body) exists will quickly breakdown into nothing. While the episode didn't make it clear whether this applied to whole bodies or every quantum unit it is reasonable to assume that it is quantum units since the odds of Sam being identical physically in the two universes that interacted are basically zero (especially considering their different life paths). As a result, anything that travelled to another universe would breakdown within a couple of days or weeks.

In other words the Ancients would be visiting universes that were essentially the same as theirs for short periods of time (less than a week), doesn't seem worth it to me. Oh yea and if they were visiting parallel universes surely they wouldve encountered one where they weren't dominant and it woulda scared em into militarizing and not eventually getting their asses kicked by the wraith ;) .


Spoilers for Before I Sleep







My own personal theory on the 9th chevron (dunno if this has been proposed before so don't hate me/sue me/kill me if you or someone else suggested it first) is that it allows for time travel (i.e. the 9th chevron is a a time locator of some sort). Now there are several problems with this theory (e.g. not enough different symbols to allow for any precision in placement in time with one chevron and the Ancients didn't appear to have mastered time travel until just before they ascended (see Before I Sleep)) and I'll address these two quickly since they are the biggest ones I can think of. First, the system may only allow you to travel to set points in time (e.g. the time that stargate was first created and then every 1,000 years afterwards) if you wish to goto any gate in the network, but if you wish to travel to the same gate in the past it may be possible to use most of the chevrons for time specification, thus allowing a degree of precision that is far greater (362,880 different points in time if all 9 cherons are used, 40,320 points if 8 are used and 5,040 points if seven are used). The using more of the chevrons to go back to the same planet is stretching the fabric of the show a little too much for me to consider it something they might actually have planned ;) . As far as when they developed time travel technology to any perfect degree it was clearly after the stargates were built (at least in our galaxy). So I would suggest that they originally didn't use the 9th chevron much as I think the 8th chevron was originally not used since the stargates were originally in only one galaxy. As a result the timeline would go something like this: stargates built with 9 chevrons because Ancient scientist dreams of further distances/parallel universes/time travel - 300,000 BC (don't take the actual times seriously); Ancients figure out how to travel further distances through stargates by using more power and implement the 8th chevron as an area code - 290,000 BC; Ancients refine time travel and implement the 9th chevron as a time code - 250,000 BC.

Furyofaseraph
August 30th, 2004, 03:23 PM
The theory is different. However it seems flawed and unlikely. Knowing that using the 8th Chevron takes a whole load of energy, we can establish that the 9th chevron would take up so much more energy. But it would seem pointless then to waste a ZPM just to get to a second gate on some planet! Maybe it would have strategic advantages... but still.. Why?

Alternate Universes are cooler and more likely.

Who says that it would take a lot more energy to activate the 9th than the 8th, maybe it takes only a fraction more energy than the normal 7. As far as why, its a matter of convenience, instead of gating to a world and having to take a transport across a whole planet, just gate to a second gate and your right there. In fact, i would not be suprised if the ancients in their golden era (pre-wraith) if some planets of theirs used more than 1 or even 2 gates.

sshspooky
August 30th, 2004, 03:35 PM
the only problem i have with that theory is that it doesn't work, due to the 12345697 bit. assuming the Ancients decided to put gates in many galaxies, then the number of galaxies max would be 37 or 38 or whatever now, if all are used for galaxies and you have extensions, how do you verify whether you want the extension or the galaxy? it could only ever work with there being a full 9 chevron address. the only way it could work is if there was a null value symbol that entered a nothing value for 8 then you could enter a value for 9.

Also, we haven't ever known the ancients to have more then one gate on a planet. we are the only planet ever to have more then 1 gate, and that is only because the Goa'uld brought a gate from a different world.

Furyofaseraph
August 30th, 2004, 03:59 PM
It doesnt require a massive amount of energy to activate the 8th glyph, it takes a massive amount of energy to activate a wormhole in a different galaxy. If you enter a local galaxy glyph in the 8th glyph, it wouldnt require any extra energy.

And besides, i think 30-ish galaxy addresses is more than enough, i mean i would be suprised if the gate system went to more than 10-12 galaxies. and that would leave 38 gates on a single planet, which also would be more than enough.

as far as the mechanics of the DHD and the 9 chevron system listed above...i dunno.

TheAncientOne
August 30th, 2004, 04:45 PM
It doesnt require a massive amount of energy to activate the 8th glyph, it takes a massive amount of energy to activate a wormhole in a different galaxy. If you enter a local galaxy glyph in the 8th glyph, it wouldnt require any extra energy.

And besides, i think 30-ish galaxy addresses is more than enough, i mean i would be suprised if the gate system went to more than 10-12 galaxies. and that would leave 38 gates on a single planet, which also would be more than enough.

as far as the mechanics of the DHD and the 9 chevron system listed above...i dunno.

Only problem with extensions in my mind is that the Ancients were more advanced than the Asgard and the Asgard and teleport to any location on a planet from a ship. So wouldn't it be more likely that the Ancients used a handheld device (or something else) to teleport all over the planet, rather than makign multiple gates for one planet?

Furyofaseraph
August 30th, 2004, 04:56 PM
Meh, different technique, but the same effect.

Besides its possible that they didnt have beaming technology when they built the gate system and it could be a kind of obsolete system.

-=shrug=- i dunno, im pulling this outta my arse.

Positively Kanyon
August 30th, 2004, 05:38 PM
So ... At the time Earth had 2 Stargates, you dial off-world to go on Earth, and so you can select if you want to go to Ra's Egypt or the abandonned Antartica ... that's a quite good idea !

I assumed that whichever gate the DHD is connected to is the dominant gate on a world with more than one Stargate...

As for my theory for the 9th chevron, I figured that it just added an extra distance calculation to an existing address... 8 symbol address is another galaxy, 9 symbol address even further? Or maybe the Ancients had anticipated further expansion and built extra chevrons into the gate for that particular purpose?

Any thoughts?

chris_h
August 31st, 2004, 05:48 PM
I assumed that whichever gate the DHD is connected to is the dominant gate on a world with more than one Stargate...

As for my theory for the 9th chevron, I figured that it just added an extra distance calculation to an existing address... 8 symbol address is another galaxy, 9 symbol address even further? Or maybe the Ancients had anticipated further expansion and built extra chevrons into the gate for that particular purpose?

Any thoughts? That's been my own theory.

7 = Local "call"
8 = Long distance (other galaxy, same galactic cluster)
9 = "International" (completely different galactic cluster)

Positively Kanyon
August 31st, 2004, 06:18 PM
7 = Local "call"
8 = Long distance (other galaxy, same galactic cluster)
9 = "International" (completely different galactic cluster)

Brilliant! That's the analogy I was trying to come up with, but you summed it up perfectly.

Anybody else agree or disagree, any more theories?

Lord Zedd
September 8th, 2004, 11:59 AM
Very good theory don't know if it's true but I understand and like what you are saying.Now what if you have 3 gates on the same planet??Ridiculous yes I know why would anyone have 3 gates but suppose you have 3 gates how do you select one of the 3 gates?

UltraMarioMan
September 8th, 2004, 12:39 PM
I think the 9th Chevron might be for dialing gates that are not on a planet. Floating in space lightyears from a system or even floating in the gap between planets..

Teal'c
September 8th, 2004, 12:43 PM
OK, time travel doesn't make sense because the Ancients never mastered time travel. Alternate realities don't make sense since AR#1 Sam said the gate wasn't capable (Along with other reasons already posted in this thread). Multiple gates doesn't make sense simply because it's pretty pointless and the order doesn't make sense.

The only two I can think it could be are A) Further distance calculation (since that is all the Stargate does anyway) so there are 1406 (38x37) other galaxies to dial to. B) Redundancy, in case the Ancient ever needed to use it. C) It looks good :P

sshspooky
September 8th, 2004, 01:17 PM
The only two I can think it could be are A) Further distance calculation (since that is all the Stargate does anyway) so there are 1406 (38x37) other galaxies to dial to. B) Redundancy, in case the Ancient ever needed to use it. C) It looks good :P

D) Only 7 chevron addresses were ever intended to be used, from the movie, but in the series they decided to use how the gate was designed to use an extra chevron for an exciting episode, but have never intended and may never intend to even look at the ninth chevron and it's function. :)


Personally i'd say it must be a distance calculation as the stargate has only ever been used for travel from Point A to Point B. Maybe the ninth chevron just allows you to stop of at a swanky ancient hotel for the night before you continue with your travels. could be a necessity for long journeys.

ToastBusters
September 8th, 2004, 03:27 PM
A while back I presented a list of plausible theories as to what the ninth chevron could be. The theory listed here is one of them, so I'll skip that one. In no particular order:

1. Time travel. Discussed to death, no further discussion needed.

2. Extension. Discussed in this thread, so skipping.

3. Other clusters. 8 symbol address = other galaxy, same cluster while 9 symbol address = other galaxy, some other cluster. Summed up perfectly by chris_h:

7 = Local "call"
8 = Long distance (other galaxy, same galactic cluster)
9 = "International" (completely different galactic cluster)
4. Additional function. Remember that the gate sees each glyph as a numeric value rather than a symbol. (the symbols are merely an interface for the user, if you will) so symbol x could tell the gate "only connect if air is breathable at the other end" while symbol y could tell the gate "do not accept calls, for lack of a better term, from dialed gate"

Other possible commands could be: Dial a new gate for the first time, effectively adding it to the network; Disable target gate; establish wormhole as incoming (useful if your teem on the other end is under fire); only allow solid matter to enter (blocking energy shots) etc.

5. This final theory is my favorite. Establish a wormhole to a location which does not have a gate. You send your puddle jumper through the randomly opened wormhole (no accuracy, but we expect it to open in space anyway) fly to nearby planet, assemble new stargate and return home. Only problem? Well, hope it opens at a convenient location; cause the planet very well could be on the other side of the local star. Remember, with no gate at the other end you would have little control over exactly where the wormhole opens. On the other hand, the asgard seem fairly accurate with those hyperdrives so they might be able to... these are the ancients afterall.

I'm sure at least one of those theories is correct. Any opinions?

David85
September 8th, 2004, 04:46 PM
That doesn't work at all.

If I wanted to dial the 2nd Earth one and wasn't far away then what would I do with the 8th one?

ToastBusters
September 8th, 2004, 04:50 PM
That doesn't work at all.

If I wanted to dial the 2nd Earth one and wasn't far away then what would I do with the 8th one?
Dial your own area code, perhaps?

Nurbs
September 9th, 2004, 04:00 PM
We know more than 7 chevrons requires more power, therefore having a 9th chevron just to open a different gate on the same planet makes no sense. I also think gating to a galaxy outside the local cluster is unlikely, you need a zpm alone inside the cluster, outside of it would require several factors more.

My thought is, you're counting wrong instead of chevrons 1-9 you have chevron 0-8. The 0th chevron requires a different set of protocols then Sam created in her dialing program. And likely its a special chevron which is why its not normally activated.

AsgardCarnage
September 10th, 2004, 06:34 AM
nope they dont show the dialing computer in ep 1 of atlantis

my guess is that is is an extra distance calc, because the gate is designed for distance traval.

but u guys have to remember from what we have seen there is no way to send a specific symbol to a specific place in the dial. u have to do it in order. so u can just put in the 9th symbol it has to have the forst 8 in front. and we know that the 8th is another galaxy so the 9th will have to be another galaxy + something.

that or the acients just like symetry and it looks better that way

sshspooky
September 10th, 2004, 08:54 AM
since dialing more chevrons requires extra power, maybe the 9th chevron simply allows the gate to stay open longer then 38 minutes?

lord_rblade
September 10th, 2004, 12:36 PM
** VARIOUS SPOILERS **





Okay, here we go. I’m going to begin with what I believe is Ancient History :snicker: and then move on to how I feel the gate networks work.


Ancient History: :rolleyes:

First, the Ancients evolved on earth. They built the stargate network throughout the milky way and shared that technology with their allied races (particularly the Asgard, who have a regular gate in the Ida Galaxy) [The Fifth Race]. After spreading throughout the Milky Way, they decided to have some fun and go to the Pegasus Galaxy, taking their great city of Atlantis with them.

By the time they reached Pegasus, they had been so bored to tears they had invented a new gate system (they replaced their gate during the journey). When they got to Pegasus, they installed the version 2 gates as they spread. One day, they awoke the Wraith (ha ha!) and the wraith spread, killing off the ancients, etc. Well, the only gate in the known universe designed to be used across galactic distances was the Atlantis gate. They decided to sink Atlantis in the ocean, and retreat through the stargate back to Earth, where they died from grief :snicker:.


Gateo Mumbo Jumbo: :(

First of all, version 1 and version 2 gates are basically the same except version 2 gates are designed to be able to dial faster, save power, and allow dialing remotely. There are even DHD’s designed to be attached directly to the gate, which contain attitude thrusters etc, so the gates can be placed in space. Yeah!


The Gate: It’s façade and dialing. :D

The gate has nine chevrons. These are the, I dunno, chevron-shaped objects on the gate!? For some reason, those dang earthlings number chevrons in the order they are entered. Dorks- fine, I’ll go with it. But we need to number based on all the chevrons that could be entered, and how they are entered in a complete dial. Those dang seven-didgit speed dials aren't for us ancients, they're for you youngsters. :rolleyes:

The first three entered are the right ones, the next three the left ones, everybody knows that. That covers the first six, and I won’t touch that with a ten foot pole. [Evolution part 1]

Next, the top chevron. [The Fifth Race] It has TWO functions. First, as it’s role as the seventh chevron, it can do what any other good chevron does, it will encode data. When activated as any of the normal symbols, it is a distance multiplier, telling the gate how much power to draw. It’s primary function, however, is not to act like a normal chevron. When the PoO is sent, no matter where at in the order, the gate will attempt to dial. It will check the coordinates, and attempt to connect. If it can, it will lock the inner ring in place and open the wormhole.

In the event someone wants to enter more than seven symbols before the PoO (heaven forbid) then they can either enter their local area code symbol (for a local dial) or they can enter an out of area symbol. [The Fifth Race, Atlantis: Rising Part 1] BEWARE! If you enter a long-distance dial, your gate must have extra power available to make the dial. Then, the eighth and ninth symbols add a fourth position line for greater precision, followed by the PoO being ‘locked’.

So, to recap, from top clockwise the chevrons are labeled by the order they are encoded based on the longest phone, er, gate-dial that is possible, the ten symbol dial. 7/PoO, 1, 2, 3, 8, 9, 4, 5, 6.

7th/PoO chevron; when sent PoO, activates and attempts a lock. Otherwise, must be seventh symbol sent, and used as distance.
1st chevron, coordinate for line A.
2nd chevron, coordinate for line B.
3rd chevron, coordinate for line C.
8th chevron, coordinate for line D.
9th chevron, second coordinate for line D.
4th chevron, second coordinate for line C.
5th chevron, second coordinate for line B.
6th chevron, second coordinate for line A.

Local Dial: 1234560
Extragalactic (add distance): 12345670
Extra fine targeting (in case there are extra gates in the system): 1234567890
* Don’t forget the extra power requirement of extra-galactic dialing, and recharge your phone card, er.. zpm, before dialing.

So, to activate your call, send the PoO symbol, and the gate will (hopefully) ‘lock’.
Don’t forget, if you need to get a specific stargate in a system, you may want to dial the whole number out, so you don’t accidentally get routed to the wrong one. It might not be convenient, but at least it’s not dangerous.

To initiate a special command, you would enter the commands utilizing the impossible sequences: whenever two coordinates for a line are identical.
For example, you would enter chevron one as symbol A. Then for chevron two, you would encode symbol B. Then for chevron three you would encode symbol C. Four, C, Five B, and Six A, then hit the ByB (or send the PoO on earth) to activate.
This would trigger maintenance command ABC. This concept allows for quite a few possible maintenance commands, and make it hard for someone to enter a maintenance command on accident (unless they are random dialing, in which case it will just appear that they did not get a lock unless the maintenance command does something funky ).


The Gate: Connecting. :)

First of all, the gate monitors the initial formation of the wormhole for viability. It runs a million or so safety checks (luv the ancients!), both on the wormhole itself and the target gate. One useful check is that if stuff blocks the formation of the event horizon at the center of the stargate [A Hundred Days], the wormhole can’t form. Another check is that it verifies the functionality of the target gates DHD. It will not connect to a world whose DHD does not respond affirmatively to the self-diagnostic. If any of the safety checks fail, it collapses the forming wormhole, and the outward appearance is that it just doesn’t connect, or ‘lock’. Many frustrated dialers will repeatedly dial, as if the gate system is busted, when in fact it is often just keeping them from gating through a star, gating into a black hole, opening a gate in molten lava, or molten naqueda :snicker: for that matter.

I hope that is a clearer, more sec .. su .. sa.. oh never mind, a more short version of my thoughts. Comments?

AsgardCarnage
September 10th, 2004, 04:35 PM
tha gate will lock without a functioning DHD on the other side. people can gate to earth can't they? maybe they faked a working dhd with the dialing computer but the first time they wouldn't have known about the checks. but in The Torment of Tantalus the DHD was busted and didn't work.

also another quick point people have to remember there is no way that we have seen for the DHD to tell if u are putting in the 8th or 9th symbol exsept for order. so u can't activate the 9th chevron without activating the 8th.

so my guess is its the extra distance calculation, maybe for diffrent galaxy clusters or maybe the galaxies can have 2 digit numbers meaning u could goto ~54,000 (37*37) galaxies isntead of just 37. but i think it is a traval thing not a dimentional or time thing because we have never seen that the gate was design for anything more then travel

lord_rblade
September 10th, 2004, 07:41 PM
yes! an opposing point of view!


people can gate to earth can't they? maybe they faked a working dhd with the dialing computer but the first time they wouldn't have known about the checks. but in The Torment of Tantalus the DHD was busted and didn't work.
Quite truel. I'm working on the assumption that the gate wouldn't allow you to dial out either, until you trick it into thinking there is a functioning DHD. Based on this, to get it to dial out the first time (back in the fifties or whatever) [Torment of Tauntalus] they had to trick the gate into thinking a working dhd was present, possibly just to unlock the inner tract, before they could dial out. As for dialing back without a DHD, Carter is well aware of how to trick the gate, and no doubt teaches classes about it in her free time.


also another quick point people have to remember there is no way that we have seen for the DHD to tell if u are putting in the 8th or 9th symbol exsept for order. so u can't activate the 9th chevron without activating the 8th.
Like i said, yup. That's why in my theories I always use the same order, with a stop symbol (PoO) telling the gate that's all the symbols.


so my guess is its the extra distance calculation, maybe for diffrent galaxy clusters or maybe the galaxies can have 2 digit numbers meaning u could goto ~54,000 (37*37) galaxies isntead of just 37.
Definatley a possibility. At first I thought the best use of the 8th would be like you're implying, kinda a zip code. But then I realized every gate would have to have a huge list of all the zip codes. That's why I'm going with the distance thing carter suggested, and using one of the symbols as a 'local' symbol, that basically tells the gate not to multiply the distance. This would allow for a much greater range of dialing, but would limit the range depending on how the multiplier is used.

We could have a more definiative answer if we could get better shots from SG:A 1:1 .. The dialing computer is shown on all the screens in the bg, but hard to see. At one point, they 'encode' chevron seven, and the screen clearly shows the top one being lit on the dialing computer. that's where i came up with my theory above. no episode has ever shown the bottom two chevrons being utilized in any form, not even extragalactically.


but i think it is a traval thing not a dimentional or time thing because we have never seen that the gate was design for anything more then travel
agreed, the gate doesn't do dimensional/temporal travel (intentionally).

Jarnin
September 10th, 2004, 09:22 PM
7 = Local "call"
8 = Long distance (other galaxy, same galactic cluster)
9 = "International" (completely different galactic cluster)
This is the logical choice for the 9th chevrons usage, but not too many people know about things like superclusters, so they don't understand the explanation.

We live around a rather ordinary star that is located in the milky way galaxy. The milky way galaxy was probably made up of many smaller dwarf galaxies that originally orbited it, but were eventually consumed, making the milky way galaxy more massive.
The milky way galaxy exists in a region of space known as the local group, and that group consists of the Milky Way, Triangulum, and Andromeda, along with satellite dwarf galaxies orbiting them. Pegasus galaxy is a dwarf that is thought to be orbiting Andromeda, but is actually very close to Milky Way at this time.
The local group of galaxies belong to the Virgo supercluster, which is made up of hundreds of other groups of galaxies. There are millions of superclusters in the universe.

So, here we are on a planet in the Milky Way. We have a stargate, and can easily travel from planet to planet in the milky way. It takes roughly 100 times the power to travel to another galaxy in the local group, and the only devices we know of that can supply that power is a ZPM or an "O'neill device" (The Fifth Race), and that device isn't an option anymore.
So, if it takes a ZPM to travel to Pegasus (which is a local galaxy), how much energy do you suppose it would take to get to non-local galaxy 400 million lightyears away? And, supposing that you could attain such energy, which chevron would you use to get there?
If the 8th chevron is a distance modifier to get to a local galaxy, then logic would seem to indicate that the 9th chevron would be distance modifier used to get to a much farther galaxy, or cluster of galaxies.


First, the Ancients evolved on earth. They built the stargate network throughout the milky way and shared that technology with their allied races (particularly the Asgard, who have a regular gate in the Ida Galaxy) [The Fifth Race]. After spreading throughout the Milky Way, they decided to have some fun and go to the Pegasus Galaxy, taking their great city of Atlantis with them.
Why, oh why do people insist that the ancients evolved on Earth, even though there is not a shred of evidence in either the show, or the fossil record to prove it? If the ancients evolved on some planet in a galaxy far, far away, would that make us feel more insignificant?

Also, the show's writers have redesignated the Asgards galaxy to "Othala". It's not Ida anymore. And the logical reason for why the Asgard galaxy has the same type of gates as the milky way would be due to the fact that the Othala galaxy is orbiting the milky way.

1. Ancients travel to the milky way and begin depositing stargates on all of the habitable worlds. When they're done there, they move on to the worlds of the satellite galaxies nearby (including Othala).

2. After a few million years (30 or so) the ancients decide to populate another galaxy that is nearby (Andromeda), but since one of Andromeda's satellites is traveling close to the Milky Way, they'll start there first (Pegasus). New galactic star gate system, new stargate design based on the newest ancient technology.

Personally, I think that the ancients were not native to the milky way. More than likely, they came here to spread life, just like they went to Pegasus to do the same. That means that there very well could be many many ancient human cultures in other galaxies that we don't know, because we don't have the power to even start looking.
Not to mention that it allows the franchise to continue for a long long time, with lots of galaxies to explore in future series.

lord_rblade
September 11th, 2004, 01:39 AM
It takes roughly 100 times the power to travel to another galaxy in the local group, and the only devices we know of that can supply that power is a ZPM or an "O'neill device" (The Fifth Race), and that device isn't an option anymore.
Um, I saw that episode too and carter said 10 times. Typo?

Why, oh why do people insist that the ancients evolved on Earth, even though there is not a shred of evidence in either the show, or the fossil record to prove it?
Um, Jarnin, have you watched both series? :rolleyes: I recommend [SG Atlantis: Rising Part 1] for some useful tidbits.

Ayiana was left behind by the Ancients when they left Earth with the city of Atlantis, moving to the Pegasus Galaxy between five and 10 million years ago.
Perhaps I could recommend a good download site for the latest episodes if you're missing out Jarnin?

AsgardCarnage
September 11th, 2004, 06:24 PM
not really spoilers but ehers some space any way for atlantis 109 home
















the say that the atlantis gate is the only one that can connect to earth via the 8th symbol because it is a unique DHD with an 8th control crystal. so not even atlanstis could use the 9th symbol they would have to make a new dhd in order to use it. so either there is a 9th symbol DHD out there we havn't found yet or the acients just put it on the gate for exspantion space later.

if we wanted to test it would need to use the earth gate with a fully powered ZPM (so u know u have enough power/ more then enough) and write a new version of the dialing computer to use the 9th symbol then cold dial 37^8 = 3,512,479,453,921 and while i have the calculator out, assuming it takes 1 min to try and dial a location and not get a lock and move on (maybe less but easier to calc) it would take 6,851,746 years (ok i was really board) so basicly we aint never gunna find out!

ToastBusters
September 11th, 2004, 07:55 PM
bah... just set up a bunch of allied planets with dialing computers that do dials to those addresses during certain (inactive) hours; thus not rendering the planet unreachable. If you set up 6,851,746 planets doing this then you could try then all in just two years! (assuming they dial 12 hrs a day, leaving all other hours open for regular travel)

Hey, why not add a 6,851,747th gate for good measure. Hope they find out how to manufacture zpms soon, cuz they're gonna need a lot!!!

Furyofaseraph
September 11th, 2004, 08:19 PM
[email protected]

I tried dialing chulack but i ran out of minutes, ill have to wait until 8:00

lord_rblade
September 11th, 2004, 11:11 PM
8th control crystal
Sorry, made it short to avoid spoilers. :) When did they talk about that? I've watched all the episodes a couple times, didn't catch that.

Oh, and Jarnin - Sorry, you're right - I couldn't find anywhere that they said they had proof that the Ancients evolved on earth, only that they had lived there many years ago.

AsgardCarnage
September 11th, 2004, 11:38 PM
Sorry, made it short to avoid spoilers. :) When did they talk about that? I've watched all the episodes a couple times, didn't catch that.

Oh, and Jarnin - Sorry, you're right - I couldn't find anywhere that they said they had proof that the Ancients evolved on earth, only that they had lived there many years ago.

ok spoiler space for Stargate: Atlantis season 1 episode 9 titles "Home"
































at the begining when they are talking about how they can use that atmosphere's energy to dial earth, mckay said the atlantis DHD is unique and they would need to take the 8th control crystal from it and retrofit it in to the planets dhd so they could try and get a lock.

enough spoiler space?

lord_rblade
September 12th, 2004, 01:04 AM
ah, thx. I haven't seen that ep yet. here's a pic of my gate diagram, but i guess it might be proven wrong in that ep. :(

terraatlantus
November 5th, 2004, 04:19 PM
maybe the 9th chevronis used by the puddlejumpers in deep space? if they have hyperdrives - which I will be amazed if they don't (also teleporters) then maybe they deploy some kind of beacon struts like in babylon5 and then they use the ninth chevron to open a wormhole in deepspace?

puddlejumper747
November 5th, 2004, 04:22 PM
Hey, don't look at me... I don't know. Maybe? :rolleyes:

Erik Pasternak
November 5th, 2004, 06:50 PM
maybe the 9th chevronis used by the puddlejumpers in deep space? if they have hyperdrives - which I will be amazed if they don't (also teleporters) then maybe they deploy some kind of beacon struts like in babylon5 and then they use the ninth chevron to open a wormhole in deepspace?
Do you mean open a wormhole without a stargate on the other end? It could be possible, but it's a pretty big stretch.

lionel_pendergast_rocks
November 5th, 2004, 08:58 PM
i'd think the pj's would be great with a hyperdrive, but i dont get why you incorporate a ninth chevron in this. i mean, when the prommie jumps to hyperspace, it doesnt use chevrons. if ive misinterpereted your ideas, pleas let me know. :)

GeneralJackO'Neill
November 5th, 2004, 09:10 PM
Nine chevrons? When was there an use for a ninth?

Erik Pasternak
November 5th, 2004, 09:14 PM
Nine chevrons? When was there an use for a ninth?
That's the whole thing. We don't know what the use is for the ninth chevron, we are limited to speculation.

Janus
November 5th, 2004, 11:06 PM
maybe the 9th chevronis used by the puddlejumpers in deep space? if they have hyperdrives - which I will be amazed if they don't (also teleporters) then maybe they deploy some kind of beacon struts like in babylon5 and then they use the ninth chevron to open a wormhole in deepspace?

Sorry, but Puddle Jumpers do not have hyper-drive.

S
P
O
I
L
E
R

In 'Home', Sheppard said it would take over 800 years to come get McKay by Puddle Jumper if the Gate broke down.

Mr Prophet
November 5th, 2004, 11:11 PM
If you were activating a hyperdrive, why would you use any chevrons? Even if the 'jumper had some sort of emergency self-gating protocol to create a transient wormhole to jump back to a Gate, why would that involve chevrons? The chevrons are on the Gate.

terraatlantus
November 6th, 2004, 11:00 AM
If you were activating a hyperdrive, why would you use any chevrons? Even if the 'jumper had some sort of emergency self-gating protocol to create a transient wormhole to jump back to a Gate, why would that involve chevrons? The chevrons are on the Gate.


to answer the prior two posts: I doubt they know everything about the puddlejumper yet, as the door on the roof command demonstrates. also they haven't yet tried to travel anywhere except by stargate.

the 'deployable struts' I speculate about I mis-stated. I meant the glyphs not the chevrons. sorry

roswellgray
November 14th, 2004, 02:09 PM
the 9th chevron also might be used the other way. from a planet with a stargate to these deployable struts or a stargate far from any planet or star. that way puddlejumpers could travel to spacestations in deep space or some other point of interest

Major_Griff
November 14th, 2004, 03:08 PM
If ancients could open a wormhole w/o a stargate on the other side, they why build more than one?

roswellgray
November 14th, 2004, 03:58 PM
If ancients could open a wormhole w/o a stargate on the other side, they why build more than one?

several reasons, first I bet it's more energy intensive than using the 8th chevron. second, the 9th chevron is meant for deep space and the puddlejumper DHD. so the terresterial (sp?) DHD would float away and not accesible except by spacesuit. third, regular stargate/DHD would be meant for planet based use for those without ships.

the 9th chevron/glyph would be for deep space use only - perhaps for exploration purposes - I think of it a bit like the Bablyon 5 gateless jump points/or pseudo gateless because you would need deployable struts from the jumper or fixation upon some natural interstellar 'landmark'

Fox'atuus
November 14th, 2004, 06:06 PM
Okay, First let's just take a history lesson (might help from getting silly speculation happening)

Now we know after the film they got both a Air force and a Science Tech Advisor, so whatever answer requires some reality/theory to back it up.

Okay, the basics

In Galaxy dialing - first 6 designate the target planet (by 3D spacial triangulation, we already do this in 3d models to place discovered planets in our galaxy), and the 7th is the finished signal and sets the open point for the wormhole.


Out Galaxy Dialing - First 6 Designate a point in space, 7th designates which Galaxy and 8th acts as the Point of Origin (PoG)

now with that behind us lets look at the 9th Chevron.

Now... first the obvious answers.
- used for distance calculations to other universes. (it has been theorised that there may be universes outside ours)
- Diagnostic modes
- Acts like Dialing 1 or 0, which then designates the primary power source.

Now we can return to the further odd and bizzare speculations. though I think the most obvious is the common deduction it adds a further distance calculation.


Now far as the speculation about deep space exploration

okay, we know hyper drive exists and that the ancients as allies of the Ausgard would have it. Now, even the Ausgard (those as advanced as the ancients) still require BIG engines for HS windows, and this after centeries in which to evolve technologically.

So most likely the Ancents would travel to a point via conventonal HS (or maybe modified like the outcome of when the sun when nova and threw SG1 & Appophis to the Ausgard galaxy)

- Fox'atuus

roswellgray
November 14th, 2004, 06:25 PM
Okay, First let's just take a history lesson (might help from getting silly speculation happening)

Now we know after the film they got both a Air force and a Science Tech Advisor, so whatever answer requires some reality/theory to back it up.

Okay, the basics

In Galaxy dialing - first 6 designate the target planet (by 3D spacial triangulation, we already do this in 3d models to place discovered planets in our galaxy), and the 7th is the finished signal and sets the open point for the wormhole.


Out Galaxy Dialing - First 6 Designate a point in space, 7th designates which Galaxy and 8th acts as the Point of Origin (PoG)

now with that behind us lets look at the 9th Chevron.

Now... first the obvious answers.
- used for distance calculations to other universes. (it has been theorised that there may be universes outside ours)
- Diagnostic modes
- Acts like Dialing 1 or 0, which then designates the primary power source.

Now we can return to the further odd and bizzare speculations. though I think the most obvious is the common deduction it adds a further distance calculation.

- Fox'atuus


although an additional distance calculation would be sensible and possible we know that the Ancient thought big - I think they would've opted for something that really displayed their savoir faire - after all consider how many hundreds of billions of stars just in those 3 colonized galaxies, MW, Pegasus and Ida - that's a lot to explore and colonize even for an Ancient population in the tens of billions.

Besides which we know the Ancients weren't averse to limiting the Stargate's potential- note the only Pegasus gate capable of extra galaxtic travel being the Atlantus one.

And the only silly rabbits are those that dismiss anything as silly.

And we all know that just because current scientists say something is not possible then damn it - it's IMPOSSIBLE.

right Aristotle? - oops I mean Fox'atuus :rolleyes:

southside97
November 14th, 2004, 06:30 PM
In Galaxy dialing - first 6 designate the target planet (by 3D spacial triangulation, we already do this in 3d models to place discovered planets in our galaxy), and the 7th is the finished signal and sets the open point for the wormhole.


Out Galaxy Dialing - First 6 Designate a point in space, 7th designates which Galaxy and 8th acts as the Point of Origin (PoG)

now with that behind us lets look at the 9th Chevron.

Now... first the obvious answers.
- used for distance calculations to other universes. (it has been theorised that there may be universes outside ours)
- Diagnostic modes
- Acts like Dialing 1 or 0, which then designates the primary power source.

lol, i read somewhere on another forum....

7 Chevron = Local
8 Chevron = Long Distance
9 Chevron = Collect?!?!


lol, it could be to call WAAAAAAY further than our galaxy, like super far universe... i know it can't be time related or alternate or parallell related. too obvious.

edit:


Besides which we know the Ancients weren't averse to limiting the Stargate's potential- note the only Pegasus gate capable of extra galaxtic travel being the Atlantus one.

ok, i take back my word on super extra dialing... so i'm stump really hard. if they don't ever discuss what the 9th chevron does before the series end, i'll be really really pissed.

its like when a mechanic finishes a job and there's one screw left, he'll prolly just ignore it. but it might be something useful or something important. they can't just throw it away. just like the 9th chevron, can't just throw it away.

Fox'atuus
November 14th, 2004, 07:10 PM
although an additional distance calculation would be sensible and possible we know that the Ancient thought big - I think they would've opted for something that really displayed their savoir faire - after all consider how many hundreds of billions of stars just in those 3 colonized galaxies, MW, Pegasus and Ida - that's a lot to explore and colonize even for an Ancient population in the tens of billions.

Besides which we know the Ancients weren't averse to limiting the Stargate's potential- note the only Pegasus gate capable of extra galaxtic travel being the Atlantus one.

And the only silly rabbits are those that dismiss anything as silly.

And we all know that just because current scientists say something is not possible then damn it - it's IMPOSSIBLE.

right Aristotle? - oops I mean Fox'atuus :rolleyes:
*clap* I give you nods Roswellgrey, My point was the shows explinations are based on current scientific explination mixed with a bit of sci fi fun. Under the Super String Theory Wormholes are possible.

and I prefer my rabbits of the Monty Python veriety :)

Oh I'll be the first to admit human science is pretty infintile.

And we know why the Pegasus Gate at Atlantis is limited that way, aside from fact that only atlantis has the required ZPM's to power out of dialing code connections to prevent thier enemy from spreading past peagusus.. or least that's how i understood the first/2nd ep. of Atlantis *shrug*

I just thought should point out the obvious stuff we know about how the gate works (I ajusted the purpose of the 7'th and 8'th glyps as depending on where the PoG is it's purpose changes)

OH Granted there were lots of points of exploration.. I'm just saying we know HSWindows can be boosted to travel between galaxies in moments (hence the reference to the gate blowing up the sun ep). Since it's now cannon that it can be done, I propose the ancients could do this with thier vessells.. which means thier ships go the same speed as gate travel.

After all.. the primary purpose of Gate travel seems to be transport of small things (puddle jumpers, beings, etc). And well personally I wouldn't colonise a world in a fleet of puddle jumpers (just wouldn't make sense, to many resources be spent)


And the only reason i scoff at the B5 parralell is because the Faster then Light (FL) transport in B5 is so different then "gating". B5's Gates utalized the principle of theorised subspace domains while SG Gates utalized the princible of molecular transmission via a artificial micro-wormhole traveling a Subspace layer.

The two arn't compatible for a good parralell. the only close parralell is with star trek where wormholes (as in post 90's) were still goverened by "known science".

Don't get me wrong.. I'm not laughing at anyone. Just pointing out that whatever explination we will eventually get from the Gods of SG Cannon "the staff writers" will make sence with stated cannon, while also totally flaunting "known science" since that's what in part makes SG so compelling. yeah it's sci-fi, but the science is plausable. When it's plausable, ppl are likly to accept it.

Besides.. aside from freak side effects (ie the time loop/travel effect of directing the wormhole back on itself), every function of the gate we've seen has been logically related to interplanet travel.

I mean granted I tend to think logically, but it just makes sense to me.. but hey.. speculation is fun... I just think it's more fun speculating Within the "rules" the cannon (set facts) have set

Hey.. maybe the 9th chevron triggers a self destruct :) (now that is a silly speculation)


okay nuff ranting.. me tired and prolly starting to become incoherent.


By Southside97

lol, i read somewhere on another forum....

7 Chevron = Local
8 Chevron = Long Distance
9 Chevron = Collect?!?!


Hey makes sorta sence if you think of it like this.

We know the Atlantis gate is only one with enough juice to do 8 chevrons. So could say that say your on earth.. wanting to get to atlantis in pegasus.. you first dial the 8 chevrons then add the 9th "collect" glyph to ask the other gate to supply the required power to make the connection.

which is why i think that's one Plausable use for the 9th chevron.

roswellgray
November 14th, 2004, 07:20 PM
well, it depends when the Atlanteans developed the stargate. maybe hyperspace travel wasn't as fast as wormhole travel.

also, for current real science, what is the speculation about wormhole formation?
besides being 2 way they must open at both ends without being fixed to something n'est pas?

also how then do hyperspace windows travel before closing?

WraithWarrior
November 15th, 2004, 05:43 AM
Whoever this theory belongs to its good and explains what the 9th chevron is used for better than the theory of the extra distance calculation (no offence to whoever that theory belongs to). I at first thought that it must be used for an extra distance calculation but thinking of it, all you need to dial another galaxy is the 8th chevron (obviously the first 7 as well, but I mean other than the usual) and enough power to create a stable wormhole between the two. It also works better than the theory of the 9th chevron being used for time travel, even though that does work.

**Possible Spoilers: Highlight below**
I read somewhere that the 9th chevron is going to be used in future seasons

Elitenova
November 15th, 2004, 06:00 AM
why not send a whole lot of LAV from the Deadulas

Wass
November 15th, 2004, 10:31 AM
**Possible Spoilers: Highlight below**
I read somewhere that the 9th chevron is going to be used in future seasons

May I ask from who have you heard this.

kodamawu
November 16th, 2004, 01:37 AM
not really spoilers but ehers some space any way for atlantis 109 home
















the say that the atlantis gate is the only one that can connect to earth via the 8th symbol because it is a unique DHD with an 8th control crystal. so not even atlanstis could use the 9th symbol they would have to make a new dhd in order to use it. so either there is a 9th symbol DHD out there we havn't found yet or the acients just put it on the gate for exspantion space later.

if we wanted to test it would need to use the earth gate with a fully powered ZPM (so u know u have enough power/ more then enough) and write a new version of the dialing computer to use the 9th symbol then cold dial 37^8 = 3,512,479,453,921 and while i have the calculator out, assuming it takes 1 min to try and dial a location and not get a lock and move on (maybe less but easier to calc) it would take 6,851,746 years (ok i was really board) so basicly we aint never gunna find out!
maybe the control crystal is really capable of 9 but we just don't know it yet.

alkalinemono
November 16th, 2004, 04:18 AM
Who says that it would take a lot more energy to activate the 9th than the 8th, maybe it takes only a fraction more energy than the normal 7. As far as why, its a matter of convenience, instead of gating to a world and having to take a transport across a whole planet, just gate to a second gate and your right there. In fact, i would not be suprised if the ancients in their golden era (pre-wraith) if some planets of theirs used more than 1 or even 2 gates.

maybe one in space and one on the planet???

Jarnin
November 16th, 2004, 04:40 AM
Not to pick nits, but I've noticed that a great many people on this site use the word theory without actually knowing what it means, and people using words they don't understand tends to irk me.

What this entire thread is about is conjecture, not theory. It starts with you making an observation (watching the show). Then you come up with an idea (hypothesis) based on what you saw in the show.

The problem is, nobody has ever seen the 9th chevron used, thus, no observation has been made. You can't form a hypothesis without observing something first.
If the show has never used the 9th chevron, any hypothesis anybody tries to come up with is nothing but conjecture (guessing).

A Theory is not a guess!

Theories become theories because they stand up to years of experiment and observation by others, not just the person coming up with the theory.

There should be very few times you can use the word "theory" and anything regarding stargate in the same sentence. The producers and writers change things, thus you can't ever have a theory that works.

[/Rant]

Wass
November 16th, 2004, 05:11 AM
Dude we are talking and speculating amongst over self’s, it’s not an English Language exam so who cares if the wording of some people is not spot on. But I do understand where you’re coming from its cool man just chill and go with flow.

Hobbes
November 16th, 2004, 11:03 AM
So Normal Address:
XXXXXXY
X-Location
Y-Point of Origin
The "point of origin" thing was only used in the movie. In the series, gate addresses are always the same regardless of where you're dialling from.

roswellgray
November 16th, 2004, 06:30 PM
Not to pick nits, but I've noticed that a great many people on this site use the word theory without actually knowing what it means, and people using words they don't understand tends to irk me.

What this entire thread is about is conjecture, not theory. It starts with you making an observation (watching the show). Then you come up with an idea (hypothesis) based on what you saw in the show.

The problem is, nobody has ever seen the 9th chevron used, thus, no observation has been made. You can't form a hypothesis without observing something first.
If the show has never used the 9th chevron, any hypothesis anybody tries to come up with is nothing but conjecture (guessing).

A Theory is not a guess!

Theories become theories because they stand up to years of experiment and observation by others, not just the person coming up with the theory.

There should be very few times you can use the word "theory" and anything regarding stargate in the same sentence. The producers and writers change things, thus you can't ever have a theory that works.

[/Rant]


as a scientist I agree - I think you caught me on that slip once - but the vernacular is so insidious sometimes when one converses with laymen you forget. I notice that most of my comment lacks proper capitalization and punctuation too :rolleyes:

sharky277
November 16th, 2004, 07:09 PM
i like ur thoery very much, but for some reason, i dont think it will be true. what i think will happen is if/when they activate the 9th chevron, it will be something we never ever thought of, and it will blow our minds. or it could just be for symmetry and not be able to activate at all.

WraithWarrior
November 17th, 2004, 12:23 AM
May I ask from who have you heard this.

I read it on the net somewhere. I hope it is true because they can then develop the story lines more and go into more depth on how the Stargate works.

9-Chevron
November 17th, 2004, 09:04 AM
not really spoilers but ehers some space any way for atlantis 109 home

the say that the atlantis gate is the only one that can connect to earth via the 8th symbol because it is a unique DHD with an 8th control crystal. so not even atlanstis could use the 9th symbol they would have to make a new dhd in order to use it. so either there is a 9th symbol DHD out there we havn't found yet or the acients just put it on the gate for exspantion space later.

if we wanted to test it would need to use the earth gate with a fully powered ZPM (so u know u have enough power/ more then enough) and write a new version of the dialing computer to use the 9th symbol then cold dial 37^8 = 3,512,479,453,921 and while i have the calculator out, assuming it takes 1 min to try and dial a location and not get a lock and move on (maybe less but easier to calc) it would take 6,851,746 years (ok i was really board) so basicly we aint never gunna find out!

your conjecture maybe correct but also there is a probability that the acients bug all the other gates across pegasus galaxy so that the wraith couldnt travel to other galaxies leaven atlantis with the only dhd able to dial out the galaxy

now my 2 cents have you ever think of the posibility that the 9th chevron is use to activate the wormhole to work both ways?making gate travel posible both ways in on shot?

kelmah
November 17th, 2004, 09:18 AM
If there are two gates on a planet, and only one of them is attached to a DHD (making it the primary gate), how do you dial out from the other gate? Do you have two DHDs and just connect and disconnect them as needed? Or is there just one DHD, and you have to move it around when you want to switch primary gates?

kelmah
November 17th, 2004, 09:23 AM
The "point of origin" thing was only used in the movie. In the series, gate addresses are always the same regardless of where you're dialling from.

Not really, they just don't point it out as much anymore.
In the beginning of the series, they always had to find the one different symbol on the DHD when they got there, so that they could dial home quickly when they were being shot at by pissed locals or jaffa.

roswellgray
November 17th, 2004, 04:49 PM
I was thinking about the quandry of the eighth and ninth chevrons and how could one activate the 9th chevron without activating the 8th?

I propose that puddlejumpers in deepspace without a stargate which want to use a wormhole to some gate whereever do this:

Activate ALL 9 CHEVRONS. In this situation the first six glyphs would act as usual to mark the destination point.

However, the remaining 3 glyphs when ALL encoded would act as the location in deep space of the puddlejumper - say by the 3 remaining glyphs symbolizing the 3 nearest stars to the puddlejumper forming a triangle with the puddlejumper at the apex and then the 3 closest of the destination glyphs comprizing the remaining for a total of 6 to indicate the departure point in deep space of the puddlejumper.

Fox'atuus
November 17th, 2004, 06:48 PM
By Roswellgrey:
also, for current real science, what is the speculation about wormhole formation?
besides being 2 way they must open at both ends without being fixed to something n'est pas? [science geek warning]
Well according to the Super string theory, Wormholes operate by creating a gravametric disturbence in the fabric of space, and then cut through a layer called "Sub Space" (a layer of space that exists outside of the physical plane between atoms and outside of time).

The Chaos portion of the String theory allows Wormholes to form naturally though choatically. Basically a natural wormhole would Jump it's ends around erratically as the energy in the ecretion disk builds to the formation of a event horizen. Basically the event horizens creation would distabalize each ends fixture points in our space, making it appear anywhere.

Also in a natural forming wormhole the String theory believes it would be two way where as it postulates that a forced wormhole would at best allow only micro atom-mic material to pass both ways, but no real mass.
[/science geek warning]

Okie back to Stright SG stuff.

Well, we don't know much about puddle jumpers yet so lord knows what they could do.. And we still know very little about the ancients (you'd think Daniel would of asked more questions while accended).

Mind you, we don't even know for certain if the Anceints were first in our Galaxy or in Ida or in Pegasus.

With so little facts it's hard to draw many conclusions.

I mean sure, it's possible puddle jumpers could act as thier own gates (but then why would the Ancients put stargates around the pegasus galaxy, where the Wraith could use them?)

we know they fought and eventually lost to the wraith.. and well.. I don't think the ancients were dumb enough to leave SG's around for the enemy to use if thier own Puddlejumpers (PJ's) could act as thier own gates.

maybe i'm just thinking too much :D

But let's assume it would work that way..

well if a PJ's could open thier own wormholes, likly you would punch in the destination points, the Jumper would then do a intelligent look for a gate as your dialing, see none then prolly designate a special 7th, 8th and 9th glyphs to "jumper gating"

[science geek warning]
Also the physics of Stargate travel and wormhole travel still remain the same if it's a jumper or another gate.. you still have the gate going from point A (where the jumper/gate is) to the 6 point triangulated point in space (point B)

So the theory for gate travel still maintains as W = (6p)+Sp.

Sp = Start Point. since you know the exact point in space your at, your telling the wormhole generator where to target the wormhole from the Sp
[/science geek warning]



also how then do hyperspace windows travel before closing?

Okay, basically from what i gathered from show cannon Hyperspace windows are like ST's "Warp bubble".. it creates a "window" around the vessel that disrupts the laws of relitivity, and the window would automatically close and return to normal as soon as the Hyperspace generator was out of range.

either that or or the "window" is like SW's hyperdrive in which the drive slips the ship into a contuint that already exists inthe folds of subspace.

TBH.. need more info on how the hyperspace drive works before really can say if it actually even closes.

Edit: Damn that's one long post O_O

roswellgray
November 17th, 2004, 09:39 PM
[science geek warning]
Well according to the Super string theory, Wormholes operate by creating a gravametric disturbence in the fabric of space, and then cut through a layer called "Sub Space" (a layer of space that exists outside of the physical plane between atoms and outside of time).

eh, I hate to login in I'm so tired and I hate taking a whack at your science geek warning thing but here goes.........superstring theory to my knowledge proposes 11 dimensions with 3 normal and 8 curled up.....if you uncurl 1 or more of those I suppose that might be used to explain hyperspace.....but I don't remember any of those curled dimensions being called "subspace" - and even while curled the theory suggests that all matter and time still travel simul thru those dimensions while crossing the uncurled 3 dimensions.


The Chaos portion of the String theory allows Wormholes to form naturally though choatically. Basically a natural wormhole would Jump it's ends around erratically as the energy in the ecretion disk builds to the formation of a event horizen. Basically the event horizens creation would distabalize each ends fixture points in our space, making it appear anywhere.
yes true but that was my point. a stargate isn't necessary for wormhole formation - perhaps the jumper would use these "struts" or some other way to temporary hold the wormhole mouth in one place


Also in a natural forming wormhole the String theory believes it would be two way where as it postulates that a forced wormhole would at best allow only micro atom-mic material to pass both ways, but no real mass.
[/science geek warning]

agreed




I mean sure, it's possible puddle jumpers could act as thier own gates (but then why would the Ancients put stargates around the pegasus galaxy, where the Wraith could use them?)

we know they fought and eventually lost to the wraith.. and well.. I don't think the ancients were dumb enough to leave SG's around for the enemy to use if thier own Puddlejumpers (PJ's) could act as thier own gates.

maybe i'm just thinking too much :D

But let's assume it would work that way..


the gate system was already up and active when the wraith were discovered..... and very possibly the wraith don't know all the secrets of the gate.....

well if a PJ's could open thier own wormholes, likly you would punch in the destination points, the Jumper would then do a intelligent look for a gate as your dialing, see none then prolly designate a special 7th, 8th and 9th glyphs to "jumper gating"
not sure what saying.....

PoeticTragedy
January 19th, 2005, 01:21 AM
:D That just gives me the image of drunken locals or drunken Jaffa rambling on and tryin to fight with sg-1...or trying it on with carter :p

Splitsecond
January 19th, 2005, 03:00 AM
its possible that with an 8 chevron lock the first 7 choose the galaxy and the 8th is the PoO and that the wormhole connects to the gate with the control crystal. so instead of being 30-ish galaxy combinations there are thosands. i like the extenion idea. maybe the 9th chevron is to adapt to alien gate networks or it chooses the colour of the wormhole :)

somme
January 19th, 2005, 02:27 PM
Brilliant! That's the analogy I was trying to come up with, but you summed it up perfectly.

Anybody else agree or disagree, any more theories?

I agree, would make the most sense anyways.

_Owen_
January 22nd, 2005, 11:06 AM
this might be like another thread but i wanted to hear some thoughts about it

Cpn. Chris(tine) Bowman
January 22nd, 2005, 11:12 AM
There's lots of threads about it. They'll tell you : time travel, more galaxies (I doubt that though), different realities...

_Owen_
January 22nd, 2005, 11:25 AM
There's lots of threads about it. They'll tell you : time travel, more galaxies (I doubt that though), different realities...
well i dont think that its time travel because of the way the ancients reacted to the time ship in Atlantis episode 115 before i sleep and i doubt its diffrent realities htey have proved in sg1 haveing more than 1 of yourself in a reality is fatal i think it might be a distance extesion or something i want it to be something cooler tho anyway let me hear you ideas

shipper hannah
January 22nd, 2005, 11:32 AM
what's this about a ninth chevron? i haven't heard anything about it!
please tell!!! :S

Whistler
January 22nd, 2005, 11:36 AM
Well noone knows! The Ninth Chevron has not been used once in Stargate's history, it is the final unexplained mystery of the gate, at least the last major one. There are many theories, I personally think it could be the subject of a further spin-off, ofcourse all we know is that the Ninth Chevron will be the point of Origin :p

_Owen_
January 22nd, 2005, 11:41 AM
what's this about a ninth chevron? i haven't heard anything about it!
please tell!!! :S
the stargate has 9 chevrons usualy only seven chevrons are used to dial the gate, 6 to determine the coordinates and the 7th as the point of origin (season two spoiler below highlight to see) the the fifth race (season two) jack after downloadin the ancient repository of knowledge into his brain builds a device to make the the 8th chevron work it turns out to add a disstance calculation like another area code so far they havnt done anything with the ninth chevron but lots of people speculate about it i wana hear wat you think it is

TechnoWraith
January 22nd, 2005, 11:43 AM
What the Ninth Chevron could do? Hmmmm... We can only imagine:

-Dial Pizza-Intergalactica and get us a hot fresh pizza delivered in 30 minutes or less.
-Take us to an alternate dimension.
-Bring back Elvis.
-Time travel to the dinosaur age so you can run away from a dinosaur that's trying to eat you.
-Take you to an unknown planet.
-Make us wonder, "Why do they have a Ninth chevron? They never use it!?"

:p :p :p :D

IMForeman
January 22nd, 2005, 12:08 PM
I have mentioned this theory before, and this is the last time I will bring it up, honest (I'm certain that you'd rather I just shut up about it, so one last time). Anyhow...

I believe that the Ninth Chevron is another distance calculator, allowing the Gate to select a different Galactic group. We know that the 8th Chevron selects other Galaxies, but there are way more galaxies than symbols available for the 8th Chevron. The Local Group of galaxies contains 30 Galaxies, which falls well within the 8th Chevron's symbol numbers. So, my thought is that the 9th Chevron allows you select a different galactic group or cluster, and the galaxies within. With all due respect to the Good Captain Bowman (who doesn't like my theory :( ), I think this fits well within the established logic of chevron functioning.

YMMV, and as there is no definite data either way, right now it's really for what you want it to be for. :D

-IMF

Mr Prophet
January 22nd, 2005, 12:15 PM
The ninth chevron balances the Gate, aesthetically-speaking. Until such time as the PTB decide that there's something they want to do and dialling a ninth chevron would be 'just the thing' for it, that's all.

_Owen_
January 22nd, 2005, 12:23 PM
The ninth chevron balances the Gate, aesthetically-speaking. Until such time as the PTB decide that there's something they want to do and dialling a ninth chevron would be 'just the thing' for it, that's all.
ok ya that is a good answer but that takes all of the fun out of it everyone knows its just there to bring up ratings when they need it but the reason i started this thread is so people could imagine and theorize what it does in the stargate univerese, in the stargate universe its not there to bring up ratingss it has a function and i started this thread so people could have fun guessing at it an reading what other people think, thank you mr. fun sucker (i was going to call u something else but it would offend some people)

Mr Prophet
January 22nd, 2005, 12:28 PM
ok ya that is a good answer but that takes all of the fun out of it everyone knows its just there to bring up ratings when they need it but the reason i started this thread is so people could imagine and theorize what it does in the stargate univerese, in the stargate universe its not there to bring up ratingss it has a function and i started this thread so people could have fun guessing at it an reading what other people think, thank you mr. fun sucker (i was going to call u something else but it would offend some people)

It's nothing to do with ratings; it just looks good like that. The eighth chevron didn't do anything until The Fifth Race, after all.

Anyway, saying what it is actually there for doesn't stop anyone imagining, since the last time I checked, I had no more than a moderate degree of power over the minds of my fellow creatures.

_Owen_
January 22nd, 2005, 12:32 PM
It's nothing to do with ratings; it just looks good like that. The eighth chevron didn't do anything until The Fifth Race, after all.

Anyway, saying what it is actually there for doesn't stop anyone imagining, since the last time I checked, I had no more than a moderate degree of power over the minds of my fellow creatures.
ok fine u got me but what do u think that the ninth chevron is used for IN THE STARGATE UNIVERSE

somme
January 22nd, 2005, 12:35 PM
It's probably just distance.

Although it was never 100% confirmed, I think it's widely believed the ancients made the Quantum mirror, so it's doubtful the Stargate goes to alternate realities.

It's doubtful it's a time, just because.

_Owen_
January 22nd, 2005, 12:43 PM
just to help somme here is the reason why it isnt time travel

well i dont think that its time travel because of the way the ancients reacted to the time ship in Atlantis episode 115 before i sleep

but i still want u to think of more explanations and if u disagree with some one say so the more you narrow down the closer you get to what it is

Mr Prophet
January 22nd, 2005, 12:56 PM
ok fine u got me but what do u think that the ninth chevron is used for IN THE STARGATE UNIVERSE

I think the Gates were built to last and the ninth checron is probably a redundant system built in to allow upgrading of the network without replacing all of the Gates. Either that or it's used for dry-firing the Gate to open an event horizon with no wormhole for diagnostic, maintenance or emergency recovery purposes.

_Owen_
January 22nd, 2005, 01:15 PM
I think the Gates were built to last and the ninth checron is probably a redundant system built in to allow upgrading of the network without replacing all of the Gates. Either that or it's used for dry-firing the Gate to open an event horizon with no wormhole for diagnostic, maintenance or emergency recovery purposes.
i like that dry firing idea

Schrodinger's Cat
January 22nd, 2005, 03:19 PM
My theory is that the chevron numbers are set by the gravitational alignment of the gate itself. Due to the method that most gates are held upwards by, two chevrons are hidden. The gate network was designed to be used with dial home devices, with manual dialing available as a backup, ring alignment would not be of much importance. The chevron number pattern is, from the botton, 8 3 2 1 7 4 5 6 9. An intergalactical dialing would not require the eigth chevron to be seen, as that would be just the point-of origin chevron. A stargate doesn't seem to have a "This end up sign" on it. Also, Nine chevrons look better than eight or seven.

IMForeman
January 22nd, 2005, 03:23 PM
. A stargate doesn't seem to have a "This end up sign" on it.

It sort of does... the top most Chevron is different from the other 8. It's unique on the device, in both it's shape and the fact that it goes "Ker-chunk" when the chevrons are being encoded. It probably wouldn't be that hard to figure out that that was supposed to be the top.

-IMF

Schrodinger's Cat
January 22nd, 2005, 03:33 PM
It sort of does... the top most Chevron is different from the other 8. It's unique on the device, in both it's shape and the fact that it goes "Ker-chunk" when the chevrons are being encoded. It probably wouldn't be that hard to figure out that that was supposed to be the top.

-IMF
All chevrons are capable of doing that. According to my theory, any chevron at the top automaticly becomes the 7th chevron.

IMForeman
January 22nd, 2005, 03:45 PM
All chevrons are capable of doing that. According to my theory, any chevron at the top automaticly becomes the 7th chevron.

Nooooo... I don't think so... take a good look. To my eyes, the top Chevron is completely unique. It's shaped totally different from all the other ones, it's point is open faced and is the only one that Ker-Chunks. The others are inward pointing, and completely stationary.

It might actually be a good tactic to turn the Gate upside down and let Jaffa through, then shoot them as the fall from the sudden inversion. :D

-IMF

Gatedialer
January 22nd, 2005, 04:01 PM
What it might do is that it allows a wormhole to activate to a planet with no Stargate. The ancients might of used this to open a wormhole to a planet with no stargate and take the materials with them to build a Stargate.

Gatedialer

Greesha
January 22nd, 2005, 04:06 PM
What it might do is that it allows a wormhole to activate to a planet with no Stargate. The ancients might of used this to open a wormhole to a planet with no stargate and take the materials with them to build a Stargate.

Gatedialer

But if there's no Stargate, where do you go when you come out of the wormhole? And where does the wormhole go??

Schrodinger's Cat
January 22nd, 2005, 04:20 PM
Nooooo... I don't think so... take a good look. To my eyes, the top Chevron is completely unique. It's shaped totally different from all the other ones, it's point is open faced and is the only one that Ker-Chunks. The others are inward pointing, and completely stationary.

It might actually be a good tactic to turn the Gate upside down and let Jaffa through, then shoot them as the fall from the sudden inversion. :D

-IMF
I haven't seen any top chevrons like that before, but what your seeing could be caused by an image being streched to fit a tv screen. I'll look into it. About the Jaffa, make sure that they fall for it. (All puns intented.)

Gatedialer
January 22nd, 2005, 04:20 PM
But if there's no Stargate, where do you go when you come out of the wormhole? And where does the wormhole go??

I'm sure the ancients knew how to determin where to put it. Maybe the wormhole ends up in orbit around the planet. Then you send a ship through.

Schrodinger's Cat
January 22nd, 2005, 04:34 PM
I'm sure the ancients knew how to determin where to put it. Maybe the wormhole ends up in orbit around the planet. Then you send a ship through.
In the opener for Rising pt.1, a gate ship is seen exiting hyperspace (or the giza stargate) in orbit around Earth. It makes sense, so long as the ancient's (or art department's) knowledge of physics is much greater than our's.

IMForeman
January 22nd, 2005, 04:36 PM
In the opener for Rising pt.1, a gate ship is seen exiting hyperspace (or the giza stargate) in orbit around Earth. It makes sense, so long as the ancient's (or art department's) knowledge of physics is much greater than our's.

Sorry to keep being contrary... but I don't think it was doing either of those things. I beleive it was just passing through Atlantis's shield.

-IMF

Ancient 1
January 22nd, 2005, 04:47 PM
It's probably some form of Caller I.D., or maybe Speed Dial. :p :D ;)

alz0rz
January 22nd, 2005, 04:55 PM
just to help somme here is the reason why it isnt time travel

well i dont think that its time travel because of the way the ancients reacted to the time ship in Atlantis episode 115 before i sleep

but i still want u to think of more explanations and if u disagree with some one say so the more you narrow down the closer you get to what it is

Please use spoiler tags when referring to Atlantis and SG1 S6+ Episodes.. Thanks! :S

Mio
January 22nd, 2005, 04:58 PM
I still say that it's:


Reserved for Future Use.


I mean, surely the Ancient Dialing Computer in Atlantis would have a little button for Chevron 9 dialings if it had been given a purpose yet.

Mio
January 22nd, 2005, 05:02 PM
It sort of does... the top most Chevron is different from the other 8. It's unique on the device, in both it's shape and the fact that it goes "Ker-chunk" when the chevrons are being encoded. It probably wouldn't be that hard to figure out that that was supposed to be the top.

-IMF

http://www.scifi.com/stargate/downloads/img/SGD02_1152x870.jpg (http://www.scifi.com/stargate/downloads/img/SGD01_1152x870.jpg)

The lighting is different, but it could be just the way this shot is.


Edit:

http://www.scifi.com/stargate/downloads/img/SGD08_1152x870.jpg

It appears that the side horizontal lit up bars are different on the top Chevron.

It's definetly unique.


Of course, this is just a crappy scifi wallpaper, so unless we get a really good shot of the gate on tv....

alz0rz
January 22nd, 2005, 05:04 PM
I mean...



It would have been interesting to see how they dialed Earth in "Letters from Pegasus" - but they ended it so abruptly.. :/

alz0rz
January 22nd, 2005, 05:05 PM
What it might do is that it allows a wormhole to activate to a planet with no Stargate. The ancients might of used this to open a wormhole to a planet with no stargate and take the materials with them to build a Stargate.

Gatedialer

If there isnt a Stargate there - there is nothing to rematerialize you.. You'll just .. cease to exist :p

Mio
January 22nd, 2005, 05:05 PM
I mean...



It would have been interesting to see how they dialed Earth in "Letters from Pegasus" - but they ended it so abruptly.. :/


McKay explained it pretty clearly. They just crammed all their power into the gate, and dialed.



If there isnt a Stargate there - there is nothing to rematerialize you.. You'll just .. cease to exist :p

Exactly. While the wormhole can transmit your basic matter, without a stargate event horizon to put you back into your original form, you'd be turned into dust.

alz0rz
January 22nd, 2005, 05:13 PM
McKay explained it pretty clearly. They just crammed all their power into the gate, and dialed.






Mio, I understood the part about getting all the power - but I mean when they actually DIALED Earth.

Did they just punch in the 8 symbols and thats it? No special procedures or anything :o? I mean there is a entire crystal there JUST to lock a 8 chevron address so there definately had to be another step or something :rolleyes: :cool:

Schrodinger's Cat
January 22nd, 2005, 05:14 PM
Sorry to keep being contrary... but I don't think it was doing either of those things. I beleive it was just passing through Atlantis's shield.

-IMF
That makes sense. It was night in that shot, and the hyperspace exit could have been like F-302 Hyperburst and used to pass through the sheild. (We're agreeing, right?)

IMForeman
January 22nd, 2005, 05:21 PM
That makes sense. It was night in that shot, and the hyperspace exit could have been like F-302 Hyperburst and used to pass through the sheild. (We're agreeing, right?)

I'm not agreeing that it was a hyperspace exit at all... the Jumpers don't seem to have Hyperdrives at all. Jarnin and myself independantly calculated the speed of a jumper to be .02c or 2% of light speed.

-IMF

Mio
January 22nd, 2005, 05:27 PM
Mio, I understood the part about getting all the power - but I mean when they actually DIALED Earth.

Did they just punch in the 8 symbols and thats it? No special procedures or anything :o? I mean there is a entire crystal there JUST to lock a 8 chevron address so there definately had to be another step or something :rolleyes: :cool:


They probably just picked 'Earth' in the Ancient Dialing Device Database, and got a lock :D

It probably does what our computer did in 'The Fifth Race'.

The slot for the 8th chevron just....appears....when you need it.

alz0rz
January 22nd, 2005, 05:28 PM
They probably just picked 'Earth' in the Ancient Dialing Device Database, and got a lock :D

It probably does what our computer did in 'The Fifth Race'.

The slot for the 8th chevron just....appears....when you need it.



Yeah about what happened in "The Fifth Race" - so a 8th block just appeared on our screens? :D Or was it pre-programmed and just needed to be enabled? Or did Jack program it in when he started typing ;)

Mio
January 22nd, 2005, 05:31 PM
That makes sense. It was night in that shot, and the hyperspace exit could have been like F-302 Hyperburst and used to pass through the sheild. (We're agreeing, right?)

It kind of just passes through the shield. Think 'Kull Warrior'.

Either:

A) The shield was set to a mode that allowed passage through it like in the Goa'uld docking bay in Descent

B) Puddle Jumpers can pass through the Atlantis Shield. It makes sense.



I just watched it to be sure. The sound and blue distortion that appear are definetly what you'd expect from something passing through a shield. It was NOT hyperspace.

IMForeman
January 22nd, 2005, 05:36 PM
I just looked at a bunch of Chevron images... I appear to have been wrong... big shock there...

-IMF

Mio
January 22nd, 2005, 05:55 PM
Sorry It's so crummy. it's difficult to compress it into such a small file. But it's clear (at least on the original version) that the Jumper went through directly through the shield.

alz0rz
January 22nd, 2005, 05:57 PM
Sorry It's so crummy. it's difficult to compress it into such a small file. But it's clear (at least on the original version) that the Jumper went through directly through the shield.

Corrupt file! :eek:

IMForeman
January 22nd, 2005, 05:58 PM
Sorry It's so crummy. it's difficult to compress it into such a small file. But it's clear (at least on the original version) that the Jumper went through directly through the shield.

Oh, I'm with ya on that one. I was wrong about the top Chevron being shaped differently though. I'm not certain where the memory of a differently shaped top chevron comes from.

-IMF

_Owen_
January 22nd, 2005, 09:11 PM
Oh, I'm with ya on that one. I was wrong about the top Chevron being shaped differently though. I'm not certain where the memory of a differently shaped top chevron comes from.

-IMF
if you watched stargate on a widescreen tv then it would apear elongated

IMForeman
January 22nd, 2005, 09:28 PM
if you watched stargate on a widescreen tv then it would apear elongated

Oh, if only that were my problem. I'd love to have me a Widescreen TV... besides... all the DVD's are Widescreen.

-IMF

_Owen_
January 22nd, 2005, 09:31 PM
Oh, if only that were my problem. I'd love to have me a Widescreen TV... besides... all the DVD's are Widescreen.

-IMF
maybe you just saw a wierd picture or assumed it looke diffrent or mayb u saw it from a wierd angle

IMForeman
January 22nd, 2005, 09:35 PM
maybe you just saw a wierd picture or assumed it looke diffrent or mayb u saw it from a wierd angle

Nah... it's probably just my addled brain.

-IMF

sharky277
January 22nd, 2005, 09:40 PM
actually on the DVD cases and aparently all stargate related DVD's, the 7th chevron is different, Its got a gap in the middle. Like in these examples:

http://www.coronaproductions.com/tp/pics/stargate_dvd.jpg

http://aolshop.com/media/coverart/dvd/cov150/drt300/t396/t39632go77b.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/~jyroflux/dvds/StargateBox2.jpg

Now you could say they strechted it to make it bigger for the box, but there really is no need too, at least the way I look at it.

P.S.- To get these pics I just typed in Stargate DVD in google.

P.S.S.- As near as I can tell, they don't use the special 7th chevroned gate on the show at all.

IMForeman
January 22nd, 2005, 09:44 PM
actually on the DVD cases and aparently all stargate related DVD's, the 7th chevron is different, Its got a gap in the middle. Like in these examples:




Now you could say they strechted it to make it bigger for the box, but there really is no need too, at least the way I look at it.

P.S.- to get these pics I just typed in Stargate DVD in google.

That's where I saw it! Thank you.

-IMF

sharky277
January 22nd, 2005, 09:45 PM
Your welcome

_Owen_
January 22nd, 2005, 09:52 PM
i bet that the ancients did that to avoid coming out upside down who ever wrote the idea to get enemies like that it is a good theory but i dont see how it would ever be needed both the earth stargate and atlantis stargate have shields... unless the team was trapped on another planet and were being attacked by goa'uld and couldnt dial out that would work

Splitsecond
January 23rd, 2005, 01:09 AM
imo the 9th chevron is used to connect to other networks, possibly alien or different purpose gate networks. for example they may have built bigger gates for ships that only connected to the same sized gates but when you activate the 9th chevron you can connect with another sized gate. maybe they had ring sized gates for travelling around a planet.

i dont like the extra distance idea because we have only seen one gate from each galaxy being connected to another galaxy. so maybe 7 chevrons lock the galaxy in an 8 chevron lock and a connection is made to the control crystal gate in the galaxy your trying to reach. eg in ida the asgard gate is the only one earth can connect to.

maybe it does something stupid like set the colour of the wormhole, adds a time delay, turns it off or puts on the answer mechine (how funny would it be if they found a gate with the 9th chevron lock then when they turned it off everyone that tried to get there since the ancients activated it appear all at the same time)

Mr Prophet
January 23rd, 2005, 01:52 AM
i dont like the extra distance idea because we have only seen one gate from each galaxy being connected to another galaxy. so maybe 7 chevrons lock the galaxy in an 8 chevron lock and a connection is made to the control crystal gate in the galaxy your trying to reach. eg in ida the asgard gate is the only one earth can connect to.

I simply don't think that's the case. (Spoilers for Home)Rather, only Gates with an extra control crystal in their DHD - or a jury-rigged dialling programme - can accept an 8 chevron intergalactic address, but it could Gate anywhere within that galaxy.

Jarnin
January 23rd, 2005, 04:35 AM
I don't mean to shoot down all the nice 'theories' in this thread, but this has been discussed hundreds of times on many fan site forums, and the only logical conclusion is that it allows for even further dialing; as another poster said, like an international call.

Time travel is not a possibility: If you haven't seen "Before I Sleep" yet...The ancient council seems pretty dead set against time travel, so it makes no sense what so ever that they'd build that functionality into the stargates.

Multiple gates on a planet is also not a possibility: Planets aren't meant to have more than one gate on it at a time, which was shown in "Frozen", "Watergate" and probably a couple other episodes I'm forgetting.
For planetary travel you'd use the transporter rings, or a teleport beam like the Asgard, or one of the teleport closets like the ones on Atlantis.

A gate in orbit also doesn't pan out: We've seen in "The Serpents Lair" that when a Stargate is moved into orbit around a planet, it shares the same point of origin as the gate on the planet. We've also seen in "Rising pt 2" that an orbital gate doesn't require 9 chevrons to activate.

If you don't understand anything about the structures in our universe, there are only 3 things you need to worry about:

1. Star Systems make up galaxies.
2. Galaxies make up groups.
3. Groups make up clusters or superclusters.

The 8th chevron allows you to travel from one galaxy to another galaxy in the same group.

The 9th chevron would allows you to travel from one galaxy to another galaxy in a different cluster.

dd78matt
January 23rd, 2005, 09:26 AM
The "point of origin" thing was only used in the movie. In the series, gate addresses are always the same regardless of where you're dialling from.


While the address is same from any planet, you still need the PoO to plot a course.

But anyways, I was watching the movie last night, and it came to me, don't you only need 4 points to locate any spot in a three dimensional space?

Look, on the segment formed by the first two points, the area your are trying to lock onto is on that line somewhere. And then the second two points' segment intersects the original segment, and where it intersects is where the point is you are trying to locate. See so isn't it redundant to have two more points? where the other two points just put in so that there was a possibility for more addresses?

_Owen_
January 23rd, 2005, 10:00 AM
imo the 9th chevron is used to connect to other networks, possibly alien or different purpose gate networks. for example they may have built bigger gates for ships that only connected to the same sized gates but when you activate the 9th chevron you can connect with another sized gate. maybe they had ring sized gates for travelling around a planet.


(WARNING SEASON TWO AND FIVE, FIFTH RACE AND ASENCION SPOILERS HIGHLIGHT TO READ) that wouldnt be it because in seeason five the episode asecnion where the ancient comes to visit and stalks carter he builds a stargate in carters basment to escape the NID or whoever it was and the stargate he built was considerabley smaller than all of the other stargates but it still connected to the same network and he only used 7 chevrons and i doubt that he used more because if whatever amount of energy that is going into the SGC cant power an eighth chevron (see fifth race) then i doubt the power going into carters basment could power nine

sueKay
January 23rd, 2005, 11:23 AM
Here's an idea about the 9th Chevron!

maybe it's a sort of cleaner for a puddle-jumper. Kinda like an automated car wash

aeromathlete
January 23rd, 2005, 05:34 PM
I've often wondered about the 9th chevron's function, except I'm watching The Fifth Race right now, and realized that the 9th chevron probably doesn't do anything. According to the 5th episode, the Ancients do mathematics in base 8. Which means they count to 8, and then what we know as 9 would be written as 11. It would be as odd for them to go to 9 as it is for us to go to 11. 10=8 seems like a good stopping point for the numbers.

It could be there because the gate needs an odd number of chevrons in order to look good. LOL. I mean, it is kind of nice to have one on the top, to stand out for the point of origin lock. ;)

Mr Prophet
January 24th, 2005, 07:39 AM
I've often wondered about the 9th chevron's function, except I'm watching The Fifth Race right now, and realized that the 9th chevron probably doesn't do anything. According to the 5th episode, the Ancients do mathematics in base 8. Which means they count to 8, and then what we know as 9 would be written as 11. It would be as odd for them to go to 9 as it is for us to go to 11. 10=8 seems like a good stopping point for the numbers.

It could be there because the gate needs an odd number of chevrons in order to look good. LOL. I mean, it is kind of nice to have one on the top, to stand out for the point of origin lock. ;)

So most Ancients go up to eight and then they can't go any higher; but if the Gatebuilder Ancients need that little bit extra they can go all the way up to nine?

So...Why not go up to eight and just make eight louder.

...This Stargate goes up to nine.

Dodge Baal
January 24th, 2005, 01:55 PM
This post contains references to The Fifth Race, Window of Opportunity, Red Sky, Torment of Tanalus, and SGA episode Home. So if you haven't seen these skip on by....











I've read through a lot of the theories and have actually witnessed some pretty heated discussions (i.e. near fist fight) between friends of mine about what the use of all nine chevrons would accomplish. But I figured I would throw my 2 1/2 cents in anyway....


Distance vs. Galaxy:

Correct me if I am wrong but from all of the episodes I've seen on the matter (specifically The Fifth Race and Rising Pt 1) it's only theory that the use of an 8th chevron indicates an additional distance calculation. I'm in the middle of watching seasons 1 thru 7 (again....for the Nth time) so I'll post again if I find another mention of it. I find this hard to swallow and believe that a more accurate description would be a specific galaxy (mentioned elsewhere in this thread).



DHD, 7 chevrons, and limitations:

In past episodes we've seen the gate do various things that *MAY* be considered an anomoly. Time travel, time loops, establishing a wormhole without dialing, remaining open because of a blackhole on the other end, opening a wormhole through a sun, etc. Because of this we know that the gate itself is not limited to it's current use and/or operational limitations. If you look at certain episodes a lot of gates on other worlds APPEAR to only have 7 rather than 9 chevrons. Most of the time the chevrons are just covered up by the stone steps holding it in place - but I think at least one episode had a gate that clearly only has 7 chevrons (I'm making notes on seasons 1-7 so I'll correct this later if I turn out to be wrong).

The second issue is the dialing computer vs. the DHD. By all indications I personally believe that the DHD itself is not capable of using more than 7 chevrons by itself or in it's current configuration (as seen in in SGA - Home). I belive that in most cases in order to use any extended features of the gate a more capable computer needs to be used (i.e. the SGA gate computer and the reprogramming Jack did in The Fifth Race). From the point of view of the Ancients the DHD is probably considered primitive and therefore is probably the most limiting part in the equation.


Base 8 math:

One of the possible restrictions that has been posed was that the use of 9 chevron would not fit into the whole base 8 math used by the Ancients. While it does have some merit for certain things it just doesn't fit. If the base 8 math (octal) played that much of a part in the construction and operation of the gate there would logically be 64 symbols (100 octal) rather than 39 (47 octal). Add in the assumption that a race as advanced as the Ancients would probably use quantum computing rather than transistors each 'bit' would most likely have 8 states (but only the primitive ones :) ). I think that there would need to be some canon dictated which fully explains the method of computers used by the Ancients before something like this could be fully explained. The best example/background for this however is the use of crystals which lend to the (strong) possibility of quantum computing. Regardless of what type of math used (base 10, base 8, base 2, etc) I don't think that it would impose significant limitations nor should it.


1444 Functions:

If you consider that the Ancients were smart enough to build the Stargate they would have had the foresight to make sure the abilities of the gate (or the network) could be extended beyonds it's initial purpose. This is where the use of all 9 chevrons would come in.

If you assume that the 7th and 8th chevrons act as a function indicator then all plausible theories about what the gate are possible and could be assumed to be true. In order to do this however the dialing computer (and the DHD's) would most likely need to be reconfigured/reprogrammed as was done in The Fifth Race. By acting as a 'function key' this would make for a new dialing sequence where the first 6 chevrons are an address, the 7th and 8th symbol specify the function to use (1444 possible when you exclude the origin symbol), and the 9th is the origin.




Here are some possibilities...

1. Allowing a wormhole to be activated without a gate at the destination address (requiring MUCH more power than a single ZPM). You could just end the dialing sequence at the 9th symbol and 'trust' the dialing computer to place the exit at a safe location or initiate an additional dialing sequence to provide specific coordinates on the destinatin planet. I know most people think that you MUST have a gate at the other end but I think that's only dictated by the SGC's current understanding of the capabilities/limitations of the gate technology - i.e. anything can be introduced to explain away current canon.


2. Ability to travel THROUGH a black hole. I find this intriguing because it would make more sense (and is quicker) than creating the technology to compensate for time-space distortion created by the presence of a black hole in order to get close enough to it to do anything (I forget the episode black holes are touched upon). The black hole itself acts as a super gate and the even horizon appears on the other side. Since we don't actually know if there IS another side of a black hole or what it's really like I can see this one working. This could even be one of the things researched by the Ancients as a method of 'manual ascention'


3. Remote dialing of another gate. This would also cause the event horizon at the origin to appear as a different color (say green) to indicate it was remote dialed and safe to pass through. The gate doing the dialing connects to the other gate (subspace or whatever method you wanna use) and initiate the dialing sequence as if it were a DHD. You could also do a multiple dialing sequence including the origin on the first go around and the destination on the next go if you want to activate it between worlds other than the dialing origin.

I find this one very plausible in the gate world since during the establishment of a wormhole 7 chevrons on the destination gate lock so it wouldn't be that far of a jump to have it initate a remote dialing sequence since we know that the origin and destination gates communicate in some fashion.


4. Time Travel. We've seen it before so it's always possible although I personally think it would suck for them to introduce something like this. Not because it's hokey but because time travel episodes are rarely if ever done right regardless of the show. Often things are introduced throughout the episode (either subtle or quite obvious) that SCREAM temporal paradox - resulting in complaints and people thinking it sucked.


5. Turns the color of the event horizon to alternating red and green for x-mas. :)


6. Creates a weapon possible of destroying entire planets.


7. With enough power creates a shield covering the entire planet to defend against attacks.


8. Allows additional gates to be activated and used in various ways (any described above). We know that multiple gates can be used at the same time as was seen in "Window of Opportunity".


9. Specify one of multiple gates on the same planet.


10. Select a specific gate on the same planet as the destination. This I think is a very good possibility since both the gate and the transporter rings appear to rely on pretty much the same technology and could have been a precursor to the transporter rings (or vice versa). As a matter of efficiency (and logic) they would have wanted to abandon the lenghty dialing sequence for same planet travel. This one is actually at the top of my list as cool/fun/plausible uses. :)


Other stuff

Something else to think about.....the dialing sequence does not have to be limited to 9 symbols. The reason I say this is that the origin symbol (unique to each planet) seems to work as a marker to initiate the sequence. What happens if you dial a short or even an extended sequence? That would elimiate the requirement/limitation of 9 symbols for certain operations. Here are some interesting scenarios....



Short sequence: Same planet travel:

4 symbols (destination gate ID - 2,085,136 possible)
1 symbol - origin.


Full 9 chevron sequence: Bi-directional wormhole:

6 symbols (Abydos coordinates - destination)
2 symbols (bi-directional function)
1 symbol - origin.


Extended sequence: Remote dialing:

6 symbols (Abydos coordinates - destination)
2 symbols (remote dial function)
1 symbol - origin.

After the origin locks and releases ALL chevrons lock, light up, and release to indicate the gate is ready for the next sequence.

6 symbols (Chulak coordinates - source)
1 symbol - origin.



Anyway just a few thoughts :)

Dodge Baal
January 24th, 2005, 02:05 PM
It would be as odd for them to go to 9 as it is for us to go to 11. 10=8 seems like a good stopping point for the numbers.


Technically that's incorrect. Octal math (base 8) for us starts at zero (not one) and ends at seven. Therefore the 1st chevron would be numbered 0 (zero) and 9th chevron would be numbered 8 and is represented as 10 in octal.

It does however exhibit the addition of another digit in the sequence which is the point I think you were trying to convey. But as stated in my last message the type of math they use would not be a limiting factor. In fact it's a good indication that they could have included MORE than 9 chevrons but did not see the need to add them at the time.

AzMcNeil
January 24th, 2005, 04:38 PM
Maybe the 9th chevron is the final test of the ancients . They will proably save the story line for the last possible season but heres my theory! When they figure it out, it opens a doorway to another plane of existence. An "ascended" plane of existence. Now I have no foundation for this theory but I'm kinda tired of the old bickering of "it's for time travel" "no it's for distance" any other outlandish theories for the 9th chevron??? :D

Cpn. Chris(tine) Bowman
January 24th, 2005, 05:28 PM
If you want to know what it really does you should watch this show (the ad is a the bottom :D)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v57/Bridgess/9thchevpostercopy1.jpg

Stargate: Ninth Chevron (http://s17.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0FG6G9X0W7WFX0HQ7RR4U5DY76)
Ad by Angel of Fire :D

Enjoy :D

_Owen_
January 24th, 2005, 06:59 PM
Maybe the 9th chevron is the final test of the ancients . They will proably save the story line for the last possible season but heres my theory! When they figure it out, it opens a doorway to another plane of existence. An "ascended" plane of existence. Now I have no foundation for this theory but I'm kinda tired of the old bickering of "it's for time travel" "no it's for distance" any other outlandish theories for the 9th chevron??? :D
once again i dont think that it is for ascending because the ancients built the gate network long before they new they could ascend

_Owen_
January 24th, 2005, 07:14 PM
If you want to know what it really does you should watch this show (the ad is a the bottom :D)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v57/Bridgess/9thchevpostercopy1.jpg

Stargate: Ninth Chevron (http://s17.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0FG6G9X0W7WFX0HQ7RR4U5DY76)
Ad by Angel of Fire :D

Enjoy :D
it says file transfer unavailable

Mr Prophet
January 25th, 2005, 07:48 AM
Maybe the 9th chevron is the final test of the ancients . They will proably save the story line for the last possible season but heres my theory! When they figure it out, it opens a doorway to another plane of existence. An "ascended" plane of existence. Now I have no foundation for this theory but I'm kinda tired of the old bickering of "it's for time travel" "no it's for distance" any other outlandish theories for the 9th chevron??? :D

Sam: Wait a minute! This Chevrons does nothing!
Ancient pops out of nowhere.
Ancient: That's right! You have passed the final test and you win an Ancient fridge-freezer; keeps food fresh...forever!

the_fours
January 25th, 2005, 08:13 AM
heres my idea, dunno if its been mentioned before:

7 chevrons - somewhere in our galaxy
8 chevrons - a galaxy within the local group e.g. Pegasus, Ida
9 chevrons - galaxies in an external group

maybe this was the antiants origional intention but never got to make use of number nine.

sueKay
January 25th, 2005, 08:53 AM
I think it nmay be something to do with time-travel.

Cpn. Chris(tine) Bowman
January 25th, 2005, 09:18 AM
it says file transfer unavailable

Try getting it from the CHevron Guy Appreciation thread... Maybe I got the link wrong . It's totally worth it :D

southside97
January 25th, 2005, 10:09 AM
Please, no more time travel stuff. If they used the 9th chevron to time-travel, what if they travel to when the stargate never existed or created? how would they get back to the current time?

also the theory about dialing a planet with no stargate, wouldn't that be a one way trip then since it would create a wormhole where the stargate doesn't exist? can't go back, since there is NO stargate...

my only guess is that it's something important and since we never seen or heard about it, it must not have been used that much by the ancients. we barely use the 8th chevron via the our stargate to atlantis, and our gate to the asgard.

so, I just hope TPTB makes a story about the 9th chevron soon before the series end or else, I'll die a gruesome death without ever knowing what the 9th chevron does! CURSE YOU!!!

Cpn. Chris(tine) Bowman
January 25th, 2005, 10:18 AM
I think it might be travel to other dimensions/realities. They had this quantum mirror made of Naquadah, maybe they though it would be more economical to just incorporate it in the gate system. Besides, they were interested in studying creatures from other dimensions like we saw in "Sight Unseen" so they could use it to study the creatures in their natural environment...

roswellgray
January 25th, 2005, 10:25 AM
My theory by my other nomme de plume is the best bet:


puddlejumpers and the ninth chevron (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=5626&highlight=puddlejumpers+chevron)

_Owen_
January 25th, 2005, 02:25 PM
I think it nmay be something to do with time-travel.

sorry but the ninth chevron has absolutly nothing to do with time travel (WARNING MAJOR SPOILERS FOR ATLANTIS SEASON ONE BEFORE I SLEEP HIGHLIGHT TO READ) why would that ancient guy need to build a time ship if the stargates ninth chevron was used for time travel , with all of the symbols on the stargate representing points in space then it would not be practical to use them as well for time then you would need several other chevrons, considering for the fact of argument that your theory is correct in that the ancients created the ninth chevron for time travel then you would only be able to go to 38 points in time (there are thirty eight symbols on the stargate) and considering that you would have to use the eight chevron as well (wich dosnt make sense because what if u wanted to time travel to a planet in your galaxy) but lets say for the fact of argument that some how when dialing the ninth chevron it overrides the function of the eigth chevron and makes it also for time travel than the most points in time you would be able to go to would be 76, to make your theory plausible then you would need 13 chevrons (regular 7 for inter-galaxy dialing, the eighth for outer-galaxy dialing, then a ninth, tenth, eleventh, twelveth and thirtheenth for year, days, hours, minutes, and seconds and considering that the ninth chevron would probably only activate the time travel function then you would need fourteen) and thousands more symbols on the stargate to specify the point in time you wish to go to. ALSO this theory is obviously NOT plausible because how would you be able to go back in time to a point when the gate network wasnt built therfore why would the ancients put this function on a newly built gate network, they wouldnt be able to use it for thousands of years unless of course that they wanted to go back to yesterday or something stupid like that. ALSO (WARNING MORE SPOILERS FROM ATLANTIS BEFORE I SLEEP HIGLIGHT TO READ) they way that the ancients reacted to the time ship that the guy was building obviously says that they know the effects of time travel and they know that gowing back in time and doing one very small thing could screw up the entire time space continum Thank you for reading now can we please close the time travel theory.

_Owen_
January 25th, 2005, 02:31 PM
maybe the 9th chevronis used by the puddlejumpers in deep space? if they have hyperdrives - which I will be amazed if they don't (also teleporters) then maybe they deploy some kind of beacon struts like in babylon5 and then they use the ninth chevron to open a wormhole in deepspace?
i dont think that is what the ninth chevron would be for for starters the ninth chevron is on all of the gates inlcuding the gates in MW which were created first, the puddle jumpers look to have been created along with the Atlantis gates and technology, and since we have seen no other evidence of anything like puddle jumpers in the MW(they look to have been created for Pegasus, if they didnt have puddle jumpers than why would there be a ninth chevron on MW gates and dont you think that they would have discovered evidence of becaons wile looking at the pjs (im sure someone took them apart)

_Owen_
January 25th, 2005, 02:38 PM
why did the ancients put stargates around pegasus so the wraith could use them watch Stargate Atlantis: Episode 118 The Gift then you should get why they put stargates in pegasus

_Owen_
January 25th, 2005, 02:53 PM
We know the Atlantis gate is only one with enough juice to do 8 chevrons. So could say that say your on earth.. wanting to get to atlantis in pegasus.. you first dial the 8 chevrons then add the 9th "collect" glyph to ask the other gate to supply the required power to make the connection.

which is why i think that's one Plausable use for the 9th chevron.

this could be semi correct the dialing gate would still need another power source just to activate the wormhole, after the wormhole is active simply shotting the stargate with an energy weapon will contribut power to the wormhole (it was in an episode of sg1 cant remember which one/too lazy to check), what it could do il open a smaller singulatrity like miniscule the siz of a pin and then the recieving gate would contribute power from its external source ex. a zpm on atlantis and then the wormhole would gradualy get bigger, thats the only way i can see your theory working, so far other than another distance calculation this is the most plausible theory... and i think it was ment as joke at first

_Owen_
January 25th, 2005, 02:56 PM
i saw this on another thread and i think it was a very good theory, ive modified it a bit but i have the direct quote in there to


We know the Atlantis gate is only one with enough juice to do 8 chevrons. So could say that say your on earth.. wanting to get to atlantis in pegasus.. you first dial the 8 chevrons then add the 9th "collect" glyph to ask the other gate to supply the required power to make the connection.

which is why i think that's one Plausable use for the 9th chevron.

this could be semi correct the dialing gate would still need another power source just to activate the wormhole, after the wormhole is active simply shotting the stargate with an energy weapon will contribut power to the wormhole (it was in an episode of sg1 cant remember which one/too lazy to check), what it could do il open a smaller singulatrity like miniscule the siz of a pin and then the recieving gate would contribute power from its external source ex. a zpm on atlantis and then the wormhole would gradualy get bigger, thats the only way i can see your theory working, so far other than another distance calculation this is the most plausible theory... and i think it was ment as joke at first

_Owen_
January 25th, 2005, 03:01 PM
My theory by my other nomme de plume is the best bet:


puddlejumpers and the ninth chevron (http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=5626&highlight=puddlejumpers+chevron)
actually no it would never happen but thanks for the link some other guy on there Fox'atuus posted a theory that i modified to be the most pluasible so far other than the distance calc theory (for post see directly above and below)

_Owen_
January 25th, 2005, 03:02 PM
i saw this on another thread and i think it was a very good theory, ive modified it a bit but i have the direct quote in there to


We know the Atlantis gate is only one with enough juice to do 8 chevrons. So could say that say your on earth.. wanting to get to atlantis in pegasus.. you first dial the 8 chevrons then add the 9th "collect" glyph to ask the other gate to supply the required power to make the connection.

which is why i think that's one Plausable use for the 9th chevron.

this could be semi correct the dialing gate would still need another power source just to activate the wormhole, after the wormhole is active simply shotting the stargate with an energy weapon will contribut power to the wormhole (it was in an episode of sg1 cant remember which one/too lazy to check), what it could do il open a smaller singulatrity like miniscule the siz of a pin and then the recieving gate would contribute power from its external source ex. a zpm on atlantis and then the wormhole would gradualy get bigger, thats the only way i can see your theory working, so far other than another distance calculation this is the most plausible theory... and i think it was ment as joke at first

GoldenSG-1
January 25th, 2005, 03:10 PM
beats the hell out of me, your asking the wrong guy ;)

time travel capabilities?

alternate universes?

goes even farther than 8 chevy's?

all the gates in the galaxy activate and turn out to be one big honkin weapon LOL! I could already hear what o'neill would say if that happened

Cpn. Chris(tine) Bowman
January 25th, 2005, 03:23 PM
O'Neill: Well whaddya know? We've been getting ourselves in a whole lotta trouble to get a big, honkin' space gun and we had it right under our noses. Ya think the Ancients are all laughing their arses off right now? Largest prank played on the Universe.

Or something like that? :D

Har Meggido
January 25th, 2005, 11:07 PM
You beat me to it

Mr Prophet
January 25th, 2005, 11:35 PM
I hate to be picky, but you can't have a 'smaller singularity'. By its very nature, a singularity is...well, singular. It has no up, down or in, it is a single point without dimensions and can therefore be neither enlarged or reduced; it just is.

Also, basic geometry here. If I have a cylinder (let's ignore gravitational distortion of the wormhole path for now) that is about six foot in radius and - for the sake of argument - eighteen sentisquijillion feet in length, what will be the major contriubtor to the overall volume of that cylinder? Even if you did contract the event horizon to a singularity, the major components of power expenditure surely must be the sheer, mindboggling distance. Moreover, I would have thought that forming the worhole must be the costly bit; maintaining it would be relatively simple, once you've overcome the universe's initial reluctance to fold two points in space time onto one another.

Kagutsuchi Ryoma
January 25th, 2005, 11:50 PM
Good thing it's only television.

Davinder
January 26th, 2005, 12:07 AM
My moved post from a thread I just created before I saw this one :o

So far some of theories include time travel, parallel universes, diagnostics, time travel, bagel oven and time travel.

How about this one:

We know the ancients terraformed the planets they deposited stargates on and changed them to more Earth like. Eventually these planets were seeded with life (fact for pegasus, speculation for MW although it has been hinted in recent years)

Due to the sheer time and effort required to dump a stargate on each planet, then terraform it, maybe all the ancients had to do was place a gate on an uninhabitable world, then later on, uber machine of life fires up the gate to destination world, with chevron 9 locked which causes the gate to create a 'genesis wave' ;)

Could be that the 9th chevron allows other devices to interface with the energy fields created by the gate, maybe even the ancient device anubis used to destroy the Earth gate. That device could have been the anti-terraforming machine :rolleyes:

Spoilers for late season 8 Uber machine of life similar to the device on Ta'kara?

Just my 0.02$

Kagutsuchi Ryoma
January 26th, 2005, 12:17 AM
I have mentioned this theory before, and this is the last time I will bring it up, honest (I'm certain that you'd rather I just shut up about it, so one last time). Anyhow...

I believe that the Ninth Chevron is another distance calculator, allowing the Gate to select a different Galactic group. We know that the 8th Chevron selects other Galaxies, but there are way more galaxies than symbols available for the 8th Chevron. The Local Group of galaxies contains 30 Galaxies, which falls well within the 8th Chevron's symbol numbers. So, my thought is that the 9th Chevron allows you select a different galactic group or cluster, and the galaxies within. With all due respect to the Good Captain Bowman (who doesn't like my theory :( ), I think this fits well within the established logic of chevron functioning.

YMMV, and as there is no definite data either way, right now it's really for what you want it to be for. :D

-IMF


I'm in complete agreeance.

roswellgray
January 26th, 2005, 04:28 AM
i dont think that is what the ninth chevron would be for for starters the ninth chevron is on all of the gates inlcuding the gates in MW which were created first, the puddle jumpers look to have been created along with the Atlantis gates and technology, and since we have seen no other evidence of anything like puddle jumpers in the MW(they look to have been created for Pegasus, if they didnt have puddle jumpers than why would there be a ninth chevron on MW gates and dont you think that they would have discovered evidence of becaons wile looking at the pjs (im sure someone took them apart)

:confused: um.....what? The pilot episode Rising shows clearly that puddlejumpers were on Earth when Atlantis departed for Pegasus. :cool:

Dodge Baal
January 26th, 2005, 08:29 AM
Please, no more time travel stuff. If they used the 9th chevron to time-travel, what if they travel to when the stargate never existed or created? how would they get back to the current time?

Wouldn't be any different than any other time travel episode. The possibility is always there and could have happened in "1969" if they weren't careful.


also the theory about dialing a planet with no stargate, wouldn't that be a one way trip then since it would create a wormhole where the stargate doesn't exist? can't go back, since there is NO stargate...

Yes it would be a one way trip unless they sent through a couple of puddle jumpers to construct a gate on the other side.


we barely use the 8th chevron via the our stargate to atlantis, and our gate to the asgard.

Yes but only because of power limitations since in both cases it's been a one shot deal. I think if we had fully powered ZPM's and had more than one we would be futzing with the 8th chevron more and more.

_Owen_
January 26th, 2005, 12:34 PM
do u not listen ITS NOT TIME TRAVEL leave it ALONE!!!
if u still dont belive me read this


sorry but the ninth chevron has absolutly nothing to do with time travel (WARNING MAJOR SPOILERS FOR ATLANTIS SEASON ONE BEFORE I SLEEP HIGHLIGHT TO READ) why would that ancient guy need to build a time ship if the stargates ninth chevron was used for time travel , with all of the symbols on the stargate representing points in space then it would not be practical to use them as well for time then you would need several other chevrons, considering for the fact of argument that your theory is correct in that the ancients created the ninth chevron for time travel then you would only be able to go to 38 points in time (there are thirty eight symbols on the stargate) and considering that you would have to use the eight chevron as well (wich dosnt make sense because what if u wanted to time travel to a planet in your galaxy) but lets say for the fact of argument that some how when dialing the ninth chevron it overrides the function of the eigth chevron and makes it also for time travel than the most points in time you would be able to go to would be 76, to make your theory plausible then you would need 13 chevrons (regular 7 for inter-galaxy dialing, the eighth for outer-galaxy dialing, then a ninth, tenth, eleventh, twelveth and thirtheenth for year, days, hours, minutes, and seconds and considering that the ninth chevron would probably only activate the time travel function then you would need fourteen) and thousands more symbols on the stargate to specify the point in time you wish to go to. ALSO this theory is obviously NOT plausible because how would you be able to go back in time to a point when the gate network wasnt built therfore why would the ancients put this function on a newly built gate network, they wouldnt be able to use it for thousands of years unless of course that they wanted to go back to yesterday or something stupid like that. ALSO (WARNING MORE SPOILERS FROM ATLANTIS BEFORE I SLEEP HIGLIGHT TO READ) they way that the ancients reacted to the time ship that the guy was building obviously says that they know the effects of time travel and they know that gowing back in time and doing one very small thing could screw up the entire time space continum Thank you for reading now can we please close the time travel theory.

Dodge Baal
January 27th, 2005, 12:54 PM
Technically the assumption that the gate would be severly limited by the number of symbols for time travel is incorrect and narrowminded. Just because the combination of symbols as currently used indicate a point in space does not mean that they would be used in the same fashion for time travel. We KNOW that the ancients used the gate to experiment with time travel but gave up due to the limited results they got. This does NOT mean they did not succeed at a later time.

Now for the technical aspect.....

If you take into account that the first symbol indicates a directional + multiplier command with the symbols 1-19 representing forward in time and 20-38 representing backwards in time, symbols 2-8 being the time factor, and the 9th symbol being the origin then you have a significant time frame that can be visited.

An example of the first chevron being -
symbol 1 - forward by X seconds
symbol 2 - forward by X minutes
symbol 19 - backward by X seconds
symbol 20 - backward by X minutes

chevron 2-8 indivate the time interval - 38 to the 7th power.

If you use symbol 1 as the first chevron (1 second increment) the use of chevrons 2-8 give you the ability to travel forward in time by a total of 114,415,582,592 seconds or around 3628 YEARS. If you use the second symbol for chevron 1 (minutes) that's a bit over 217,000 years.

Your dialing sequence looks like this:

FTTTTTTTO

F - direction and time modifier
T - time forward or backward to travel
O - origin / sequence initiation

The requirement for a gate on the other side is quite arguable incorrect as well since you would not be traveling from one point in space to another. In That respect you would simply come out the other side of the SAME gate just at a different time.

I can come up with at least 3 different variations which use the first 8 chevrons to indicate a point in time (rather than space) including one that while inefficient remains in strictly within the bounds of the base 8 math used by the Ancient.


since there is no canon dictating what the use of all 9 chevrons I don't think it's wise to discount any theory that can be explained as technicalogically plausible. Just think like an Ancient and all things are possible.

_Owen_
January 27th, 2005, 01:10 PM
fisrt of all it would be very stupid to make the gate go back in time and not allow it to travel to another point in space at teh same time, and also if the gate had a atime travel funtion on it than why (WARNING STARGATE ATLANTIS THE GIFT) would the ancient need to build a time ship and then did you see how the old ancient reacted to the time ship and did you also notice that the entire board of ancients or whatever you call them voted for the time ship to be destroyed, they did this because the ancients knew that the effects of time travel could be potentially diasterous on the space time continum, but lets say for the fact of argument that the ancients didnt realize the effects that time travel can have (see grandfather paradox etc.) when they put the function on the gate, then why would they leave the ninth chevrons on all of the stargates leaving the time travel fuction potentialy still activated, leaving a function that could posibly desstroy the universe as we know it on the piece of technology that is used most often in our galaxy, answer that you dont even need to read the spoilers for this to make sesnse

drummerguy5
January 27th, 2005, 02:27 PM
hiya

i reckon it has something to do with multiple gates on the same planet.

6 symbols
7 - point of origon
8 - the particular galaxy
9 - a specific gate

if chervrom 9 wassnt used in dialing, the worm hoel woudl go to the "default" gate,

it coudl be liek a memory thing, the 9th chevron is the gate of origen ( so that way sg1 woudlent come back through the russian stargate when they had it.
it transmits the origion of the gate to teh DHD on teh other world, and teh DHD then lists that gate as the "default" gate?

any good? :D

_Owen_
January 27th, 2005, 03:25 PM
hiya

i reckon it has something to do with multiple gates on the same planet.

6 symbols
7 - point of origon
8 - the particular galaxy
9 - a specific gate

if chervrom 9 wassnt used in dialing, the worm hoel woudl go to the "default" gate,

it coudl be liek a memory thing, the 9th chevron is the gate of origen ( so that way sg1 woudlent come back through the russian stargate when they had it.
it transmits the origion of the gate to teh DHD on teh other world, and teh DHD then lists that gate as the "default" gate?

any good? :D
thats very posible but so far the only planet that they have found morethan one stargate on is earth, and what about the eight chevron, what would be very more probable is that the eight chevron would be a specific gate on a planet and the ninth would be another distance calc(unfortunatly we know what the eight chevron does), also the ancients had no need to move gates around they would just make another one it has been proven that the goa;uld moved gates around such as the earth gates, so sorry about that but i dont think that is it

_Owen_
January 27th, 2005, 08:11 PM
I hate to be picky, but you can't have a 'smaller singularity'. By its very nature, a singularity is...well, singular. It has no up, down or in, it is a single point without dimensions and can therefore be neither enlarged or reduced; it just is.

Also, basic geometry here. If I have a cylinder (let's ignore gravitational distortion of the wormhole path for now) that is about six foot in radius and - for the sake of argument - eighteen sentisquijillion feet in length, what will be the major contriubtor to the overall volume of that cylinder? Even if you did contract the event horizon to a singularity, the major components of power expenditure surely must be the sheer, mindboggling distance. Moreover, I would have thought that forming the worhole must be the costly bit; maintaining it would be relatively simple, once you've overcome the universe's initial reluctance to fold two points in space time onto one another.
i get wat you are saying the math is right but there are two other things wrong. first the worhole can be smaller and by wormhole i mean event horizon see that episode of sg1 wen the ancient builds a gate in carters basment it is significantly smaller and if you can limit the size of the event horizon enough into decimal numbers lets say we are talking in mm then if you could limit it to a 400 digit decimal number in milimeters (or even smaller) than the volume of the wormhole would be smaller not big enough for a person but more than enough room for a radio signal and the sencond thing thats rong is that forming the wormhole is the easy part and sustaining it is the harder part (see leters from pegasus, SGA) the forming takes a burst of energy but all toether the energy needed to keep the gae open would be significantly larger than the amount of energy needed to open the wormhole in the first place

_Owen_
January 27th, 2005, 08:17 PM
:confused: um.....what? The pilot episode Rising shows clearly that puddlejumpers were on Earth when Atlantis departed for Pegasus. :cool:
i dont remember that episode but i will watch it tomorow on the movie network on demand and check it out u are probably righttho but that is not the important part of my theory and like some one said before (i think it was mr. prophet) why would the ninth chevron have anything to do with it they are just dialing into a gate for the sake of argument and pjs had beacons like that they might have to dial nine symbols but first i doubt it very much and second why would they stick a ninth chevvron on evry stargate (and im pretty sure that the stargates were made before puddle jumpers anyways

Mr Prophet
January 28th, 2005, 07:32 AM
i get wat you are saying the math is right but there are two other things wrong. first the worhole can be smaller and by wormhole i mean event horizon see that episode of sg1 wen the ancient builds a gate in carters basment it is significantly smaller and if you can limit the size of the event horizon enough into decimal numbers lets say we are talking in mm then if you could limit it to a 400 digit decimal number in milimeters (or even smaller) than the volume of the wormhole would be smaller not big enough for a person but more than enough room for a radio signal and the sencond thing thats rong is that forming the wormhole is the easy part and sustaining it is the harder part (see leters from pegasus, SGA) the forming takes a burst of energy but all toether the energy needed to keep the gae open would be significantly larger than the amount of energy needed to open the wormhole in the first place

Then say wormhole and not singularity, please. Of course, this does bring up the issue of how big the wormhole is; if that's always been <10^-400mm in radius, which is possible, then reducing the event horizon would have even less effect.

Anyway, keyhole wormholes notwithstanding, from what you're saying about Letter from Pegasus, the biggest power requirement is still that surge used in the creation of the wormhole. Isn't that what the ZPM is supposed to be really good for? Supplying a lot of energy in one go? That's why the booster was needed to open a wormhole to Ida in The Fifth Race; you need a kick to get going. My impression was that thereafter the SGC generators were able to maintain the wormhole - maintenance may take more energy, but less power.

Janus
January 28th, 2005, 08:28 AM
I disagree with this theory about the 9th Chevron.

1 If Jumpers can make wormholes, why bother with Stargates ?
2 There is ZERO Evidence for this theory.

Whistler
January 28th, 2005, 08:29 AM
Then say wormhole and not singularity, please. Of course, this does bring up the issue of how big the wormhole is; if that's always been <10^-400mm in radius, which is possible, then reducing the event horizon would have even less effect.

Anyway, keyhole wormholes notwithstanding, from what you're saying about Letter from Pegasus, the biggest power requirement is still that surge used in the creation of the wormhole. Isn't that what the ZPM is supposed to be really good for? Supplying a lot of energy in one go? That's why the booster was needed to open a wormhole to Ida in The Fifth Race; you need a kick to get going. My impression was that thereafter the SGC generators were able to maintain the wormhole - maintenance may take more energy, but less power.

I would agree with you if it weren't for Letters:They were able to open a wormhole to Earth, but could only sustain it for 1.3 seconds because it would require a ZPM to sustain it further or to send anybody.

Janus
January 28th, 2005, 08:36 AM
How can we make the 9th Chevron work ?
What I mean is:

Even if know what it does..no control crystal to lock it in.
The SGC Gate has no crystals, and the Ancient program O'Neill wrote only covers Eight chevrons.
And the Atlantis Gate has only eight crystals.
Ideas anyone ?

LostGodAnubis
January 28th, 2005, 08:48 AM
Okay, First let's just take a history lesson (might help from getting silly speculation happening)

Now we know after the film they got both a Air force and a Science Tech Advisor, so whatever answer requires some reality/theory to back it up.

Okay, the basics

In Galaxy dialing - first 6 designate the target planet (by 3D spacial triangulation, we already do this in 3d models to place discovered planets in our galaxy), and the 7th is the finished signal and sets the open point for the wormhole.


Out Galaxy Dialing - First 6 Designate a point in space, 7th designates which Galaxy and 8th acts as the Point of Origin (PoG)

now with that behind us lets look at the 9th Chevron.

Now... first the obvious answers.
- used for distance calculations to other universes. (it has been theorised that there may be universes outside ours)
- Diagnostic modes
- Acts like Dialing 1 or 0, which then designates the primary power source.

Now we can return to the further odd and bizzare speculations. though I think the most obvious is the common deduction it adds a further distance calculation.


Now far as the speculation about deep space exploration

okay, we know hyper drive exists and that the ancients as allies of the Ausgard would have it. Now, even the Ausgard (those as advanced as the ancients) still require BIG engines for HS windows, and this after centeries in which to evolve technologically.

So most likely the Ancents would travel to a point via conventonal HS (or maybe modified like the outcome of when the sun when nova and threw SG1 & Appophis to the Ausgard galaxy)

- Fox'atuus

I thought out of galaxy was, 6 to determine the place, 7 i thought was just a distance marker, not a specific galaxy(which is vastly different)...and the 8th being the point of origin.

LostGodAnubis
January 28th, 2005, 08:50 AM
Someone needs to go stick their head in a repository again

Mr Prophet
January 28th, 2005, 08:51 AM
I would agree with you if it weren't for Letters:They were able to open a wormhole to Earth, but could only sustain it for 1.3 seconds because it would require a ZPM to sustain it further or to send anybody.

Bah! Says I.

corey2002
January 28th, 2005, 12:12 PM
by control crystals do you mean this:http://www.gateworld.net/omnipedia/technology/c/graphics/controlcrystal.jpg

or this:http://forum.gateworld.net/images/avatars/general/chevron.jpg
because you dont need the first one to dial the gate and the sgc has 9 of the second pic but 2 are under the ramp

Mr Prophet
January 28th, 2005, 12:16 PM
Using Jack's programme as a model they could reprogram the dialling computer, which doesn't need any control crystals.

IMForeman
January 28th, 2005, 12:18 PM
I've revised my theory on the 9th Chevron. Instead of dialing different Galactic Groups, like I have previously postulated, I think the 9th Chevron is for generating endless threads about what it does.

-IMF

Mr Prophet
January 28th, 2005, 12:22 PM
I've revised my theory on the 9th Chevron. Instead of dialing different Galactic Groups, like I have previously postulated, I think the 9th Chevron is for generating endless threads about what it does.

It's crazy, but it just might work!

Cycrow
January 28th, 2005, 12:54 PM
by control crystals do you mean this:http://www.gateworld.net/omnipedia/technology/c/graphics/controlcrystal.jpg

or this:http://forum.gateworld.net/images/avatars/general/chevron.jpg
because you dont need the first one to dial the gate and the sgc has 9 of the second pic but 2 are under the ramp

U need the extra control to dial the 8th chevron
not all dhds can dial it
if u look at pegasis, only the dhd in atlantis can dial the 8th chevron coz it has an extra control circuit.
Earth can also dial the 8th chevron coz the control circuit was added by o'neill

LostGodAnubis
January 28th, 2005, 12:56 PM
so back to my original statement, IF there is anything with the 9th...n it could just be a back up in case one of the others go down lol...than someone needs to go stick their head in a repository n get what it does

LostGodAnubis
January 28th, 2005, 12:57 PM
Altho its annoyin because...

just because the ancients are more advanced doesnt mean theyd know how to work our tech...the asgard would have a hard time doing our type of weapon tech because they wouldnt think of it. its kinda arrogant to assume they would always know because were inferior. Tho i guess it saves story time

Schrodinger's Cat
January 30th, 2005, 03:10 PM
Just think like an Ancient and all things are possible.
Last I heard, an Ancient needs an asgard transporter powered by a ZPM running way above maximum effeciency to screw in a lightbulb, and would prefer rebuilding atlantis instead.
A Tau'ri, on the other hand, would screw in a light bulb by simply screwing in a light bulb. An ancient would never think of doing that.
A stargate is a hyperspace window generating electromagnet capable of focusing a semi-stable wormhole through hyperspace that will emerge at another hyperspace window generating electromagnet at a specified position in space-time (so long as it's this time you're heading to :D ) and sending a one-way matter stream through to the other side. The hard part is making the gate capable of recieving an incoming wormhole and connecting to multiple wormholes. (see "Ascention" 5x03)

Schrodinger's Cat
January 30th, 2005, 05:38 PM
fisrt of all it would be very stupid to make the gate go back in time and not allow it to travel to another point in space at teh same time, and also if the gate had a atime travel funtion on it than why (WARNING STARGATE ATLANTIS THE GIFT) would the ancient need to build a time ship and then did you see how the old ancient reacted to the time ship and did you also notice that the entire board of ancients or whatever you call them voted for the time ship to be destroyed, they did this because the ancients knew that the effects of time travel could be potentially diasterous on the space time continum, but lets say for the fact of argument that the ancients didnt realize the effects that time travel can have (see grandfather paradox etc.) when they put the function on the gate, then why would they leave the ninth chevrons on all of the stargates leaving the time travel fuction potentialy still activated, leaving a function that could posibly desstroy the universe as we know it on the piece of technology that is used most often in our galaxy, answer that you dont even need to read the spoilers for this to make sesnse

That spoiler was "Before I Sleep", not "The Gift"

Oma Desala
January 30th, 2005, 05:41 PM
Maybe the 9th Chevron is for Asgard/Ancient homelands?

9th Chevron
January 30th, 2005, 05:50 PM
Its more likely that it adds a new distance calculation like the 8th chev. Or maybe a personalized home address.

richardf
January 31st, 2005, 04:12 AM
heres my idea, dunno if its been mentioned before:

7 chevrons - somewhere in our galaxy
8 chevrons - a galaxy within the local group e.g. Pegasus, Ida
9 chevrons - galaxies in an external group

maybe this was the antiants origional intention but never got to make use of number nine.


My thought exactly. I think some of you are making too much of it.

The way i see it the stargates are like the telephone system. You have 'transmitters' and 'receivers', and you also have different 'codes' for diferent areas

IE:-
7 Chevrons - local area dialing ('home' galaxy)
8 Chevrons - national dialing (different galaxies within local group)
9 Chevrons - international dailing - (different group of galaxies within known universe)

its as simple as that.

Ribbon.Device
February 4th, 2005, 06:32 AM
This is going to sound so incredibly stupid, that you wouldnt actually believe im a fan, but i didnt even know there WAS a ninth chevron. Hehe. PLease dont throw your colective keyboards at me. I'm and innocent. :o

GermanShepherd
February 5th, 2005, 08:13 AM
I'm one of the folks who things it's a sort of Country Code, like RichardF said; you've got local, "long distance" (that much is accurate, we know) and then "international".

But... I'm not ready to think it was ever actively used. Something there to make sure the Gate network would never outgrow itself. That would be kind of a bummer... using the same near-perfect system for a few million years and then 'oops! we can't make any more!' Of course, the Ancients died out/ascended... so I don't think it was ever regularly used, if at all.

If Atlantis itself didn't have a 9th Control Crystal, I'm positive the Chevron wasn't ever used. Especially after they left and were confined to good ol' Milky Way again.

As for the 'wormhole-to-no-gate' theory, pardon my bluntness, but... what ARE you thinking? It is a well-established fact that a Gate simply can't even lock onto a point in space without another Gate to receive the stream. If you could, that would seriously mess up the current understanding of their wormhole physics.

If, for some reason, you COULD force the Gate to make a half-connection to a random point in space, you won't get reintegrated, period. You'd spill out the end as a raw matter stream and cease to exist. But half-wormholes, in the first place, are a bit farfetched, don't you think? Heh...

It could be used to interface with non-Ancient "stream processing devices", but, to be honest, the Ancients were the oldest, most advanced race in their known universe. I doubt they met anyone who even came close to developing their own wormhole network.

*SPOILERS USED TO EXPLAIN AWAY THE TIME-TRAVEL THEORY*

As for time travel, the Ancients had built the Stargate BEFORE the device on SG-1's Window of Opportunity... you know, that time-bubble machine thing, and it was imperfect. ...and in Atlantis' Before I Sleep, time-travel experiments were actively banned by the Atlantis Council, and they were severely ticked when they learned that a working time-machine was built, anyway. They were extremely conscious to the fact that tampering with space-time would bestow a gigantic responsibility on the traveller to not mess with the current timeline, and, if they did, the results would be devestating. Perhaps the Gate was an experiment that lead to the banning, but, really... it doesn't take much thought to know that screwing around with time is deadly, heh.

So... chalk up one for the Distance Theory, whee.

I've also seen these threads countless times... we won't ever reach a common verdict without seeing the thing in action. ;)

SG-1
February 7th, 2005, 03:39 PM
Since in season nine, SG-1 is getting a new beginning, many new characters, fewer old faces (RDA), getting into the origins of the ancients and the gates, and the introduction of a new villian that makes the Goa'uld look like squirrels.

I think that they should get into the reason their is a ninth chevron and what it does. It could connect one to the afterlife.

Im_just_guessing
February 7th, 2005, 09:09 PM
To the afterlife? Of ALL the theories Ive read about Chevvy the Ninth, that is by far the CRAZIEST! And stupid, if they use it.

Im going to go out on a limb, and say that it is there for symmetry

Red_Rabbit
February 7th, 2005, 09:27 PM
I think that it may be used for time travel as many people have stated before, we know the gate can be used to travel in time and we know the ancients have looked into time travel so it may be a logical guess to think that it may have something to do with that.

Im_just_guessing
February 7th, 2005, 09:37 PM
However, it has been established that they built the gate system BEFORE they got into, or failed/succeeeded with time travel.

furling
February 7th, 2005, 09:44 PM
maybe it's another alternate reality device

White Knight
February 7th, 2005, 10:25 PM
maybe it's another alternate reality device

I think he's on the right track. Let's do the telephone/Stargate comparision one more time. We've got a regular number (7 symbols) and an area code (eight chevron). The ninth chevron would probably dial further than before, which probably means they could dial other universes. (if you're interested in the concept of the multiverse, read 'Timeline' by Michael Crichton. It's better than the movie, I swear)

Random
February 8th, 2005, 11:13 AM
I love timeline but i haven't seen the film, anyway...
Yeah, the afterlife thing doesn't really seem plausable but i like the time travel theory, that's whay i've always assumed it to be for. can you imagine trying to do maths with stargate symbols? ("right, well this chevron plus this chevron should land us back in... um... 568ad." "are you sure carter?" "no.") now i think about it i don't see how a time and a destination can be dialed at the same time with just one extra chevron.
the alternate universe theory is really cool, i never thought of that, the only problem i see is that there are way more universes than 37 (38 chevrons - point of origin) if we're gonna go with the theory that sg-1 were talking about with the alternate universe mirror. i also can't see how they would manage it, but it would be cool if tptb managed to get it to work somehow.
i'm gonna go with im_just_guessing and say it's just there to look pretty.

Cpn. Chris(tine) Bowman
February 8th, 2005, 12:06 PM
You know what? I think TPTB messed up when they made more chevrons than they could explain. They managed to find something for number 8 and now, if they don't tell us what number 9 is for, they'll be in trouble :D Of course, they could just keep it virgin for an arc about it in Atlantis...maybe it will introduce another spin-off someday :D

They probably have no idea what it does either. I'll go for "It's prettier this way"

Agent_Dark
February 8th, 2005, 07:56 PM
Its the speed dial chevron for Planet Pizza.

Agent_Dark
February 8th, 2005, 08:09 PM
But anyways, I was watching the movie last night, and it came to me, don't you only need 4 points to locate any spot in a three dimensional space?



Yeah I thought that too, but I remember seeing on some behind the scenes footage they were talking about that. Basically they decided to go with 6 points to make it more like a telephone system (so plebs would be more familiar with it I guess :shrugs: )

SmartFox
February 8th, 2005, 08:40 PM
While the address is same from any planet, you still need the PoO to plot a course.

But anyways, I was watching the movie last night, and it came to me, don't you only need 4 points to locate any spot in a three dimensional space?

Look, on the segment formed by the first two points, the area your are trying to lock onto is on that line somewhere. And then the second two points' segment intersects the original segment, and where it intersects is where the point is you are trying to locate. See so isn't it redundant to have two more points? where the other two points just put in so that there was a possibility for more addresses?
I was wondering that too. You would need one for the y (left-right), x (backwards-forwards) and z (up-down) dimensions and point of orgin but that should be it. I dont remember if they talk about it in detail. The only reason you would need 2 for each direction is if they added up together to equal the distance.

It seems to me that the 9th chevron would be used to travel to even farther out. Like another cluster of galaxies. The stargate as only been used for going from one point to another and not through time. Plus the Ancients hadn't perfected time travel when the stargates went in. The only problem is the amount of energy it would take to open a wormhole to another cluster of galaxies.

Reivax
February 9th, 2005, 06:17 AM
Can't it be the only way to unlock the shield protecting the real ancient Homeworld!!!!! Would be fun don't you think!!!!!!
:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

Fox McCloud
February 9th, 2005, 01:09 PM
I think the Ancients put it there as a redundancy. I dont think they went to many galaxies, but they put it there just incase. Like the spare buttons on your cars dashboard.

When the time comes for hte ancients to explore a new universe then yes they will use the 9th chevron. Unfortunatly a plague hit them and they ascended so its kinda moot now. Only 8 chevrons will ever be used.

Mio
February 9th, 2005, 01:17 PM
I think the Ancients put it there as a redundancy. I dont think they went to many galaxies, but they put it there just incase. Like the spare buttons on your cars dashboard.

When the time comes for hte ancients to explore a new universe then yes they will use the 9th chevron. Unfortunatly a plague hit them and they ascended so its kinda moot now. Only 8 chevrons will ever be used.

Exactly.

Reserved For Future Use.

Too bad their all dead now. Oh well. maybe in a few thousand years the Tau'ri will use it.

Fox McCloud
February 9th, 2005, 01:44 PM
Will we be able to go so far out that it would require a ninth chevron.
And would there be a need too.

gatelover12
February 9th, 2005, 01:59 PM
I like the future use thing I mean we know they got more advandced since they started bilding the gates right? like some ancient said hey we could fit on 2 more and use em later! the used the 8th but we don't know if they got to the ninth. Oh! maybe 2 way travel without redialing? or maybe it's the "no hassle" way to ascend? like if they had to evac but could only acend and didn't have time for all that "let go" crap?

Mio
February 9th, 2005, 03:36 PM
Will we be able to go so far out that it would require a ninth chevron.
And would there be a need too.

With access to Atlantis, I can see intergalactic Exploration being a very real possibility.

TheGreatLordGeorge
February 9th, 2005, 03:38 PM
maybe another demensoin

Karterius
February 9th, 2005, 08:16 PM
The 9th chevron really wouldn't work for time would it? When you think about it, even if it you gave each Chevron a year notation, they only leaves you a limited amount of years, and since time is infinite you would have to have infinite chevrons. The same concept applies to Dimensions, you would have to have an infinite amount.

I believe it is more of a redundancy thing.
1.) You have 6 chevrons to plot a destination, when you really only need 4, you have one as your destination...

2.) The 8th is another galaxy, but realisticly you would need at least several more to pinpoint an area in that galaxy. It would be like drawing a line infinitely into space...

SG-1
February 10th, 2005, 03:20 AM
Yeah, the afterlife was dumb. Instead it could 2 way travel.

Goldfire
February 10th, 2005, 07:44 AM
7 chevrons = local call
8 chevrons = interstate call
9 chevrons = overseas/idd call

'nuff said me thinks

gatelover12
February 10th, 2005, 02:20 PM
2 words Galactic Clusters. the 8th may need to know whiech cluster the other galaxy is in. (if the 9th is not activated the 'gate assumes it is in the local cluster.) watcha think? :D

Whistler
February 10th, 2005, 02:34 PM
You know what? I think TPTB messed up when they made more chevrons than they could explain. They managed to find something for number 8 and now, if they don't tell us what number 9 is for, they'll be in trouble :D Of course, they could just keep it virgin for an arc about it in Atlantis...maybe it will introduce another spin-off someday :D

They probably have no idea what it does either. I'll go for "It's prettier this way"

TPTB you refer to are Roland Emmerich and Friend, the guys that brought you Sargeant O'Neil in Godzilla. :D Apart from coming up with Stargate, they really have no brains.

Erin
February 10th, 2005, 03:49 PM
Okay, here's my idea. And I think it's a good idea. My friend and I have actually written tons of stories involving this idea for the Ninth Chevron and I don't know if anyone else has thought of this.

It'll self-destruct the Stargate

Matt G
February 11th, 2005, 01:31 PM
TPTB you refer to are Roland Emmerich and Friend, the guys that brought you Sargeant O'Neil in Godzilla. :D Apart from coming up with Stargate, they really have no brains.


They've done other cool stuff(but NOT Godzilla) - they've just got their heads up their backsides over SG1!

Congerking
February 11th, 2005, 01:40 PM
They've done other cool stuff(but NOT Godzilla) - they've just got their heads up their backsides over SG1!

ACTUALLY, Rolland Emmerich was sued in court twice. Once was after the Stargate movie and after The Day After Tomorrow. Both times someone had claimed that Emmerich had stolen their idea. And both times they were right and Emmerich had to pay up. So in actuality, he had no brains whatsoever.

Im_just_guessing
February 11th, 2005, 03:28 PM
I think people are forgetting, that 8th Chevron isnt dial another galaxy, its add a distance to it. Im going to use a straight line as an analogy, to make it easier.

7 Chevrons
Earth-----------------------Abydos

8 Chevrons
Earth-----------------------(Direction of Abydos)-------------------------------------------------------------Othalla

immhotep
February 13th, 2005, 03:53 AM
the ninth cheveron lets you do 1 of 3 things:

1) travel both ways through the stargate as in walk through the stargate get shot run back through.

2) to havve more than one stargate on a planet sorta like an extra point of origin.

3) shuts down the stargate network

* the quantum mirror is for alternate realitys not the ninth cheveron
** the quantum mirror also doe the time thing because u just dial a universe that in the past/ developed slower than your and ure back in the past.
*** also time travel is PJ territory leave the stargate out if this!

Mio
February 13th, 2005, 04:56 AM
3) shuts down the stargate network

The ancients would never need to impliment such a thing. If they ever wanted to destroy the stargate network, they would simply disseminate a DHD program that disabled the network, probably by wiping each gate's internal coordinate systems.

mathwizard
February 13th, 2005, 05:18 AM
2 words Galactic Clusters. the 8th may need to know whiech cluster the other galaxy is in. (if the 9th is not activated the 'gate assumes it is in the local cluster.) watcha think? :D


I think it would be good to give an idea about what is a local group:
http://www.anzwers.org/free/universe/index.html :)

crazysmoke
February 13th, 2005, 11:28 AM
i really think its just to add distance, the universe is big place.
even the acients didn't go everythere when the were corporeal.

but how far could it take u, u would need another stargate on the other end right? also it would probably take a crap load of power.

Well maybe it makes it possible to open a wormhole without a stargate on the other end and the reason no one ever used it it because it would take a z.p.m. to use it.

i doubt its a time machine cuz they have the puddle jumper for that.

the quantum mirror is for alternate dimensions.

2 way gate travel sounds like an idea but since the 8 chevron adds distance why would u dial further away to two way travel.

i think its possible to shut down the gate network aleady, maybe with a virus. but why they already have ships. gate travel is just convenient.

the cluster idea falls in with distance so it could possible be it but the question of if there is a stargate that far out or even if the ancients ever visited places that far away. if they did i think it might be that they were originally from there.

lol afterlife.

but all in all the best reason is just to add distance.

Mio
February 13th, 2005, 05:30 PM
You can't have a wormhole without another gate.

Well, you can. However, such a wormhole would spit you out in your most basic form...You'd have a small cloud of...you...at the other end.

The gate is what puts you back together.

AncientOne
February 14th, 2005, 02:51 PM
Huh... I guess I'm the odd man out. I think the 9th chevron has to do with how the Ancients seeded galaxies with human life. I don't know of any world in Stargate canon that had humans inhabiting it without having either a stargate there or once being there. We've come across many worlds were the Go'uald surplanted humans and a Stargate. I always imagined some great control station, hell maybe its in Atlantis, which accesses the Stargate network and activates all the gates within a galaxy utilizing the 9th Chevron and uses the Stargate to seed worlds with the essential building blocks for human life to form over time. I figure 8 Chevrons are used to chose the galaxy and the 9th to seed life in that galaxy. We've seen that Ancient devices can access multiple Stargates as we've seen in Window of Oppurtunity. :)

To explain how almost all of humans they've encountered speak English, I figure the Ancients could have encoded the building blocks of human DNA with something, maybe a passive genetic code, which causes all human life to slowly evolve to the point where we all speak a similar language as we get closer to their height in evolution. :D

crazysmoke
February 15th, 2005, 01:07 AM
for the wormhole without a stargate maybe u go thru it in a special ship that keeps u from breaking down.

acutally every human not on earth was put their by the gou'ald. Ra found earth and seeded the other world with humans. most freed themselves or are still enslaved. planets without stargates are ones they buried it a long time ago.

immhotep
February 15th, 2005, 04:06 AM
i really think the ninth cheveron is to do with having more than one stargate per planet or per system. imagine a massize planet with diffrent nation and both wanted a stargate u could have one point of origin per nation, per planet.
oh the 8th cheveron in this case would be used just to conifrm the 7th( point of origin a would be put in, then a agen to ensure no mistake is made), cheveron 9 tell us where on the point of origin to be sent.

PoeticTragedy
February 15th, 2005, 06:32 AM
not sure about the two gates theory...the only planet i know of with two gates on is earth, now the ancients didnt put two gates on earth only one. it was Ra who put the second gate on earth when the first was lost to him i.e. Buried. so if the ancients original plan was to only have one gate on each life supporting world then they wouldnt see the need for a 'two gates on a planet' function...any comments? :)

immhotep
February 15th, 2005, 06:43 AM
yeah i agree with what ure saying but maybe they needed to make two stargates to stop a war for example over control of starate; or they might have a stargate on a planet and on the nearest moon but are soo close they need an extra point to diferentiate between the 2

PoeticTragedy
February 15th, 2005, 06:47 AM
aah yes i see what you mean ;) ...Only Time will tell I suppose..oh and TPTB :p

Wass
February 15th, 2005, 08:41 AM
This has probably been said before but my theory on it is 8th chevron is an area code to another galaxy what if the 9th chevron allows you to dial to another universe maybe that where the ancients are now.

AncientOne
February 15th, 2005, 11:07 AM
acutally every human not on earth was put their by the gou'ald. Ra found earth and seeded the other world with humans. most freed themselves or are still enslaved. planets without stargates are ones they buried it a long time ago.

Not necessarily. The Stargates that Jack imputted in the SGC computer while under the Ancient Library's influence (The Fifth Race) were not on the Abydos cartouche, therefore unknown to the Goa'uld, and some had human life on it. Also, in Atlantis' "Rising", the hologram of that hottie Ancient stated that they seeded the Pegasus galaxy with human life. The Stargate is a great mass distribution method.

crazysmoke
February 15th, 2005, 11:27 AM
hmmm thats true. like where they found daniel.
but thats unusual maybe they made it there thru the stargate or was relocated by the asguards. cuz i don't remember ancients leaving behind humans on any other planets then earth. could be that the Abydos cartouche was outdated. acutally i might be wrong and they did leave behind people.

i know in atlantis the ancients did that.

Americas_Wrath
February 18th, 2005, 11:56 PM
Okay, the stargate is also use for Ascension. Recall the episode were Jackson ascends, he met up with Jack in a room of bright lights with a Stargate. The creature that Daniel interacted, Oma came in and out of that stargate. When he enters the gate, after persuading Jack to not revive his body, he change into energy. (The writers stated that the stargate transform materials into energy). Go and review similar episodes to this one. In the Stargate Universe, it might be possible to go through fluidic space, or a bubble dimension-- wherever your minds can take you.

Metonic
February 19th, 2005, 01:07 AM
I also believe it has something to do with Ascension. I mean you think about distance.. 7 is Basic Calling, 8 is long Distance, 9 is Another plain of Existance.

Like soem have said, Jackson Ascended and used the Stargate. Perhaps the Ancients put number 8 and 9 there for extra features, they meet asgard and program in number 8, they learn that a wormhole can make you into pure energy and learn how to Use the gate but not reassemble on the otherside, to remain energy. Bam 9th Chevron tells the gate "Hey you! You no put moleculestogether!"

sppeters
February 19th, 2005, 02:19 AM
I would hope that the writers do end up writing something explaining the 9th chevron in either season 9 or atlantis season 2.

Personally I agree with the distance calculation:
7 = (inside) galaxy
8 = beyond galaxy (inside) local galactic group
9 = beyond local galactic group (inside) galactic supercluster

besides in "rising" and in various episodes they specifically point out that to dial an eight symbol address requires alot more power then conventionally provided. Where as to dial a gate with a galaxy requires little power, ie. power requirement is directly related distance a gate can dial. Plus the further away from an object you want to view the more specific you need to be in defining its location (more chevrons).

Besides which in order to ascend you need to be pure of spirit, or you need help from someone who is ascended.

The Hindmost
February 19th, 2005, 10:23 AM
What if the ninth chevron was supposed to be used in solar systems with multiple habitable planets? If there were two planets in a system with stargates, you would need someway to pick which one you wanted to go to.

Laros
February 19th, 2005, 02:22 PM
Mabey it transfers you to a diffrent dimension. In the episode with the bug things an ancient device was responsible for making people see things from a diffrent dimension/plane of existance. What if the 9th chevron phases you into diffrent dimensions?

lionel_pendergast_rocks
February 19th, 2005, 03:45 PM
I once had a theory on the ninth chevron, but it was while ago, and no one liked, but anyway. I think the ninth chevron is used to dial the identical gate in an alternate universe. So if we dialed a nine chevron address, and did some stuff (and that was the problem with it before), we would go through the gate and appear on the earth gate, but in an alternate universe of our choosing. I like your theory better though.

Black Dragon
February 20th, 2005, 02:49 PM
Personally, I like the pizza speed dial theory.

crazysmoke
February 21st, 2005, 09:56 PM
la'ros has something there. maybe not another dimension thats the mirror people. but another plane or spectrum. buit i don't think it is used for acension.

Cryogenesis
February 22nd, 2005, 05:42 AM
The ninth chevron is obvious it is used to allow the gate to spin round twice ie after the first eight are engaged the ninth is used to store the first eight but then redial an extra set of chevrons without overconsuming power thus travel to further planets is possible using the stored gate positions as stepping stones to jump from world to world without having to gate to one world then gate to another etc.
I hope this makes sense. :S

illuminarok
February 22nd, 2005, 12:41 PM
What if it is used to open a 2 way wormhole? That way you can go either way from Atlantis/Earth with just the 1 ZPM in Atlantis.

Or what if it is used to open a wormhole anywhere in the universe WITHOUT a gate. That way you can go anywhere without the need for a gate.

Americas_Wrath
February 24th, 2005, 07:11 PM
Hello, it's me again. According to the writers of the Stargate Universe, the ancients build the stargate and the stargate networks. I DO NOT think the stargate was invented by the ancients. We are ment to believed that the first stargate was build in Egypt, then we thought the alien parasite build it. We were wrong again. We think the first stargate was build on earth. This is not true. The Ancients (The first Humans on Earth) did not build the stargate. They mass produce this technology. The creator of the Stargate(s) were a mystery to them. There are stargates across the universe far beyond any other races can travel, including the ancients. What does this mean? who builded the stargate? Season two of SGA, and possibly season nine of SG-1 will give clues to who build the stargates. Its difinite that SGA-S2 will provide blueprints of the stargate technology. If you guys want my oppinion. The answer is right under your noses.

gatelover12
February 24th, 2005, 07:24 PM
Hello, it's me again. According to the writers of the Stargate Universe, the ancients build the stargate and the stargate networks. I DO NOT think the stargate was invented by the ancients. We are ment to believed that the first stargate was build in Egypt, then we thought the alien parasite build it. We were wrong again. We think the first stargate was build on earth. This is not true. The Ancients (The first Humans on Earth) did not build the stargate. They mass produce this technology. The creator of the Stargate(s) were a mystery to them. There are stargates across the universe far beyond any other races can travel, including the ancients. What does this mean? who builded the stargate? Season two of SGA, and possibly season nine of SG-1 will give clues to who build the stargates. Its difinite that SGA-S2 will provide blueprints of the stargate technology. If you guys want my oppinion. The answer is right under your noses.
and this info comes from where?

coolzar
February 24th, 2005, 07:48 PM
I forget what episode do we hear about the ninth chevron in?
or where did we see it

gatelover12
February 24th, 2005, 07:53 PM
I forget what episode do we hear about the ninth chevron in?
none to my knowlage.

coolzar
February 24th, 2005, 07:59 PM
so why are all of talking about it's existents

gatelover12
February 24th, 2005, 08:04 PM
so why are all of talking about it's existents
becase we've seen it on the gate and we have no freaking idea what it does so we speculate........... get it?

coolzar
February 24th, 2005, 08:08 PM
what episode that what i was asking don't get mad
i am just curious

gatelover12
February 24th, 2005, 08:16 PM
what episode that what i was asking don't get mad
i am just curious
I wasn't mad. if I was mad i would write like this YOU ******* WHY DID YOU DO THAT I HATE YOU!!!!!!!! see? I wasn't mad. :D