Reasons I'm loving Season 9 so far

[Katerine]

I just finished the DVDs of Season 8 and borrowed and watched the first five episodes of Season 9 (and will watch the rest of the episodes aired-to-date soon), and I have to say that I'm really enjoying Season 9 so far. There are three reasons in particular that I was delighted with the first five episodes:

Reason #1: Daniel's back. I mean, he's back. He's really back. Finally, the caring, considerate, compassionate, ethical, intelligent person, who sometimes feels too much for his own good, and with whom I fell in love in the first five seasons, is back... instead of the selfish, snide, rude, obnoxious twit that wore his face for some of Season 7 and almost all of Season 8. Finally, there's the evidence of the man whose first instinct in adversity is to put everybody else above himself, and whose first instinct in a conflict is to try to understand. I'd missed him so much.

I like to think that what happened was that, until "Threads," Daniel never really remembered who he was. He remembered facts, but they must have been sterilized, without feeling behind them. It makes a nice explanation. As opposed to just shoddy writing.

Anyway, his reactions to the Ori, to the new people on base, to the people offworld, and to Vala have been much more in character so far this season. Very, very good to see. I am very happy.

Reason #2: The Ori. Once I got over the rather disturbing attempted parallels to Christianity (disturbing to me, since I'm a Christian), I realized that this plotline not only presents a lot of interesting questions about humanity and ethics, but also answers a big question that I've always had about the Others. It's tense from a dramatic POV, fascinating from a philisophical and psychological standpoint, and I'm really looking forward to seeing more. See here for separate thread with my thoughts on the Others and their rules as they relate to the Ori.

The only thing that I find wrong with the Ori storyline is the idea that either the Ori or the Others have territorial boundaries. Why would the Others act, and only act, if the Ori came to this galaxy? Why not the other galaxies?

Reason #3: Vala. After a rocky start in the amazingly poorly-written and poorly-conceived Prometheus Unbound (see link for further opinions on that ep), Vala somehow became one of the best things about the show, almost overnight. Somehow, she just brings the show alive. She's real, understandable, sympathetic, flawed, and you couldn't ask for a more perfect foil for Daniel. Watching her is never boring, and watching Daniel trying to cope with her is hilarious. Plus, it's refreshing to watch a flawed character who's actually held accountable for her mistakes in judgement (*cough*Gemini*cough - see link). Don't think I will be getting sick of her anytime soon.

Those are the things I'm absolutely loving about Season 9 so far. So far, it's exciting, innovative, and meaningful. Very encouraging.

Regarding other changes in Season 9:

Col Mitchell: No really strong feelings about him yet, one way or another. Kind of like him, but I just haven't known him long enough to get at all attached. I do think they played the "mortal peril" card with him way too soon - you need to wait until we've had a chance to really get attached before playing that card; if you play it too soon, that actually pushes me away.

Gen Landry: Again, no strong feelings. He's much better at running the base than Jack was. But so far, he's no Hammond either. I think the writing with Dr. What's-her-name could have been done better - until he said "you're my daughter," I thought she was his ex-wife and he just liked much younger women. The daughter I'm also reserving judgement on, although I'm slightly leaning towards dislike. She just doesn't seem that fit for the SGC. Too... pouty.

Jack's presence or lack thereof: To be honest, so far, I'm not missing him. I really missed Jack in Season 8, because he was only really present during New Order and It's Good To Be King. During those episodes, he came alive and was the life of the show the way he always had been in the previous seasons. During all the rest of Season 8, though, he was actually kind of sucking the life out of the show. So I'm really not missing him now - it would be nice to see him from time to time, but I think the show has actually improved with his absence for the time being.

Just as long as the show doesn't forget he ever existed, the way they did with Janet and, largely, Hammond, I'm ok.

Anyway, just thought I'd share. Feel free to comment, agree, criticize...

[NowIWillDestroyAbydos]

My reasons I'm lovin Season 9
The Ori
Ben Browder joining the cast

Reason I'm not lovin Season 9
Wormhole sequence changed (sound effect remains)
10-second credits

And welcome back Katerine, we missed ya.

[the fifth man]

Let's see. I like season 9 so far because of the writing, the characters (both old and new), our new adversary, and all the possibilities that still lie ahead. I can't wait for the second half of this season to get underway. Ptb, keep up the excellent work.

[Erised]

lol Daniel was never a "selfish, snide, rude, obnoxious twit." And I loved Prometheus Unbound and I love Season 9 too

[tony]

Katerine .. REALLY awsome analogy that was good stuff I enjoyed reading it. Im very pleased with SG-1 ASWELL!
and i found alot of your points had valid points! gj gj gj gj gj

[Eoin]

I too am enjoying season 9, but i do miss Jack.
Katerine that was absolutly a great read

[Dani347]

Sob! I posted a nice long response, and it told me I wasn't logged in (I was!) and it's gone! Now I have to do it all over again!

Reason #1: Daniel's back. I mean, he's back. He's really back. Finally, the caring, considerate, compassionate, ethical, intelligent person, who sometimes feels too much for his own good, and with whom I fell in love in the first five seasons, is back... instead of the selfish, snide, rude, obnoxious twit that wore his face for some of Season 7 and almost all of Season 8. Finally, there's the evidence of the man whose first instinct in adversity is to put everybody else above himself, and whose first instinct in a conflict is to try to understand. I'd missed him so much.

I also had that immediate reaction. Daniel's back! Except. my reaction wasn't that the compassionate man is back (I really didn't see him missing in the other seasons -although, naturally being human, he's not always understanding, caring, kind. He has bad days and flaws like everyone). What I saw was, the scholar, the youthful (even with the Furling attacking his face) enthusiast was back. He can be Action!Jackson when the situation demands, but I didn't get the feeling in these episodes that this was the correct behavior, and he had to outgrow those other silly notions of his, like I was getting before. The Daniel who gets excited over a new discovery, who gets happy over a book is Daniel. I especially love Mitchell calling attention to the fact that he doesn't even notice treasure when he's got a book. It was like tptb saying, "Yes, we get it. It's not a little amusing sidenote to Daniel's character -it's an ingrained part of who he is." I hope they never go back to him being nothing but a soldier. (I wonder what you'll think of Prototype. Some people see it as being very out of character. I disagree. It's not the immediate thing you think of when you think of Daniel, but I think it's extremely in character, just not a side that's shown much -see my comments in the Prototype thread, and my latest (under spoiler tags) in the Daniel appreciation one.

Watching her is never boring, and watching Daniel trying to cope with her is hilarious.

I love their interaction, too. It's fun.

Col Mitchell: No really strong feelings about him yet, one way or another. Kind of like him, but I just haven't known him long enough to get at all attached. I do think they played the "mortal peril" card with him way too soon - you need to wait until we've had a chance to really get attached before playing that card; if you play it too soon, that actually pushes me away.

I like Mitchell. I loved his initial fanboy reaction to SG1. I mean fanboy in a positive manner. If SG1 was a sports team, he'd be wearing the jerseys and waving the flags and pointing the big foam finger, shouting, "We're number 1!" It's cute. I also like how the fanboy thing tempered off as he got to know them beyond the legend of being SG1. He still respects them, but he's not so much in awe, because he knows them more personally. As for the "mortal peril" card, it could have been too soon, except I think they went in the opposite direction. They glossed over it too much. If you're going to put a main cast member in peril, at least do a better job. I didn't even realise it had been Mitchell at first. It might as well have been some nameless extra. So, what was the point?

Gen Landry: Again, no strong feelings. He's much better at running the base than Jack was. But so far, he's no Hammond either. I think the writing with Dr. What's-her-name could have been done better - until he said "you're my daughter," I thought she was his ex-wife and he just liked much younger women. The daughter I'm also reserving judgement on, although I'm slightly leaning towards dislike. She just doesn't seem that fit for the SGC. Too... pouty.

After having a hard time suspending disbelief (I kept seeing Beau Bridges, not Gen. Landry) I'm starting to see him as the character. Which is good. And, I really like his way of handling Daniel. I love Daniel in lecture mode, but I don't believe everyone would. So, it's realistic that Landry would want him to get to the point. Plus, there are two things that make it okay. 1. I think Daniel, like anyone else, can get too wrapped up in a subject that he loves, so he probably does give more info than needed. It's what enthusiastic people do. 2. Landry really respects him. One reason I think he cuts Daniel off, besides just not having the patience to listen to every little detail, is that he doesn't need Daniel to go out of his way to sell an idea to him. I don't want to give the impression that I think he'll blindly go along with anything Daniel says. I just mean, Daniel doesn't have to go out of his way to get Landry to take him seriously.


And, the biggest thing I love, they're showing these people as friends. Not the crappy, "well, you already know they like each other, so it's understood." No. No. No. That's a copout. Here, I'm seeing it. Sometimes it's little things, sometimes it's bigger. But, it's on screen, where it should be.

*crosses fingers that this posts.*

[Zardak]

New season tally :
Pros:
1. new lead (he'z okay)
2.new strylines to follow.

Cons:
1.too short intro.
2.too short credits.
3.waaa i want richard dean anderson.
4. ori i do not like.
5. dont like the was there is a jaffa high concil.
6. ANd who ivented priors.
7. dont like teal'c diolouge he does in the first couple of episodes he sounded like a different charicter.
8.Ori are too powerful.
9. not enough goauld (only ball or watever)
10. do not like vala as a charicter.
11. daniel jasson would have been beter if he went to atlantis.
12.Too many plot changes recently ( o'nell being genral etc ori, jaffa, anubis repli gone.)

And i can think of loads more not very gd new season.

[Hatcheter]

I love their interaction, too. It's fun.

I thought after 'Prometheus Unbound' that Daniel has found his Maybourne. He and Vala seem to have that same combative chemistry, and grudging respect, that makes them such fun to see on screen together. I really hope she's got a recurring spot in the show's future.

After having a hard time suspending disbelief (I kept seeing Beau Bridges, not Gen. Landry) I'm starting to see him as the character. Which is good. And, I really like his way of handling Daniel. I love Daniel in lecture mode, but I don't believe everyone would. So, it's realistic that Landry would want him to get to the point. Plus, there are two things that make it okay. 1. I think Daniel, like anyone else, can get too wrapped up in a subject that he loves, so he probably does give more info than needed. It's what enthusiastic people do. 2. Landry really respects him. One reason I think he cuts Daniel off, besides just not having the patience to listen to every little detail, is that he doesn't need Daniel to go out of his way to sell an idea to him. I don't want to give the impression that I think he'll blindly go along with anything Daniel says. I just mean, Daniel doesn't have to go out of his way to get Landry to take him seriously.

Landry is an "Action General!!!"; he wants things done, and done now, and done in a dramatic fashion. I like the way he often wears the old-school bomber jacket, and the quotes he throws out. He has a sense of history, and of the purpose of the SGC, and he certainly has respect for the people who have been there longer than he has.

And he doesn't want to be stuck in meetings all day. That's what chief master sergeants are for.

[Hatcheter]

11. daniel jasson would have been beter if he went to atlantis.

That can't be a typo, can it?

[sgatelvr]

Reason #1: Daniel's back. I mean, he's back. He's really back. Finally, the caring, considerate, compassionate, ethical, intelligent person, who sometimes feels too much for his own good, and with whom I fell in love in the first five seasons, is back... instead of the selfish, snide, rude, obnoxious twit that wore his face for some of Season 7 and almost all of Season 8. Finally, there's the evidence of the man whose first instinct in adversity is to put everybody else above himself, and whose first instinct in a conflict is to try to understand. I'd missed him so much.

I like to think that what happened was that, until "Threads," Daniel never really remembered who he was. He remembered facts, but they must have been sterilized, without feeling behind them. It makes a nice explanation. As opposed to just shoddy writing.

Anyway, his reactions to the Ori, to the new people on base, to the people offworld, and to Vala have been much more in character so far this season. Very, very good to see. I am very happy.

Wow! It always amazes me that two people can watch the same thing and have completely opposite opinions!

I have had the opposite reaction to Daniel this year than you--he is the only "con" that I have for this season. I thought he was fine in previous seasons, and now I find him a "selfish, snide, rude, obnoxious twit" who is hellbent on being "Mr. Bada$$." ActionJackson. I hate it.

Now, I agree that he did show his usual enthusiasm with finding the book, and selling his idea to Landry, but it seems to me that he is trying too hard to fill O'Neill's place as the sarcastic, "cool" guy. And I hated his behavior towards Vala in Beachhead--in case you haven't seen it yet, I'll use spoiler tags

Spoiler:

he was cold and downright mean towards her after playing basketball and having a good time. What was up with that? It looked to me like he was trying to show off, like "Look at me! Nobody would ever accuse me of being nice to her!! Aren't I cool?" Rude and obnoxious.

There are other instances that I will not get into right now (since I don't want to spoil the season for you and, well, don't feel like writing a book).

[LtColCarter]

Oh heck...I'm just gonna let it all hang out and say that the Daniel/Cameron eye candy each week is awesome!

[Katerine]

Sorry about the delay; got busy doing other things, including watching eps 6-9.

Thanks to everybody for their input! It's been good reading. Specific further replies to Dani347 and sgatelvr follow.

Sob! I posted a nice long response, and it told me I wasn't logged in (I was!) and it's gone! Now I have to do it all over again!

I know... things like that have happened to me before. It seems to happen every time I write a long post and forget to do the writing in Notepad...

I also had that immediate reaction. Daniel's back! Except. my reaction wasn't that the compassionate man is back (I really didn't see him missing in the other seasons -although, naturally being human, he's not always understanding, caring, kind. He has bad days and flaws like everyone).

Wow! It always amazes me that two people can watch the same thing and have completely opposite opinions!

I have had the opposite reaction to Daniel this year than you--he is the only "con" that I have for this season. I thought he was fine in previous seasons, and now I find him a "selfish, snide, rude, obnoxious twit" who is hellbent on being "Mr. Bada$$." ActionJackson. I hate it.

Now, I agree that he did show his usual enthusiasm with finding the book, and selling his idea to Landry, but it seems to me that he is trying too hard to fill O'Neill's place as the sarcastic, "cool" guy. And I hated his behavior towards Vala in Beachhead--in case you haven't seen it yet, I'll use spoiler tags

Spoiler:

he was cold and downright mean towards her after playing basketball and having a good time. What was up with that? It looked to me like he was trying to show off, like "Look at me! Nobody would ever accuse me of being nice to her!! Aren't I cool?" Rude and obnoxious.

There are other instances that I will not get into right now (since I don't want to spoil the season for you and, well, don't feel like writing a book).

Compared to seasons 7 and 8, Daniel seems much more himself to me. He cares a lot more.

In Season 7, it wasn't so much that he was obnoxious - he just never seemed to care about others or "the right thing," (except in Enemy Mine) and the connections to the other team members just wasn't there like it was in earlier seasons, except at the very end of the season finale. Daniel is passionate - it's one of his defining characteristics, and I really missed that.

The big issue for me was Season 8. There was a short gap between when I finished watching the DVDs of Season 8 and when I started watching the tapes of Season 9, and during that gap, I was really tempted to come back and post a lengthy rant entitled, "Who IS this guy, and what has he done with Daniel??" I had it all written out in my head, and everything, but then I figured I should probably catch up with everybody else first (plus, I was still too ashamed to show my face in here at the time, after seemingly abandoning the tournament).

I first noticed Daniel's behavior in New Order. He kept making these rude, snide comments to Weir, who was only trying to help, and when the Goa'uld came to the planet, Daniel went so far as to make statements implying that a negotiator's job is to lie her head off. And he didn't even seem to have a problem with that! I thought to myself, "Well, he's under some stress. Jack's frozen, and all that. Daniel tends to get obnoxious when he's stressed."

But his behavior never changed, for the rest of the season. For the rest of the season, Daniel was a soldier-type person who didn't seem to care about anybody else, whose first reaction in any conflict was to fight (either physically or verbally - as opposed to trying to understand and find a mutually beneficial solution), whose primary contribution to the group appeared to be to nod in agreement with Sam or Teal'c, and who responds to adversity by thinking about himself and his own safety. This is NOT Daniel!

It's like the writers, who were clearly in love with Sam, tried to put her forward by having her be the emotional one, the passionate one, the only good one, and they did it by making Daniel look bad in comparison. (Note: this isn't really a knock against Sam but against the writers. They had turned her into a Mary Sue, stealing everybody else's strengths until they had none left for themselves, instead of just concentrating on her own strengths... her wonderfully analytical mind, for example, of which we saw almost no evidence in Seasons 7 and 8, because the writers were so busy having her be the "female." Her analytical mind was another thing that was good to see return in Season 9, btw).

Anyway...

Even as late as "Threads," Daniel was obnoxious. I blame this on MS, actually - the look on his face when he said, "contemplate my enlightenment?" He was talking to Oma, but he was wearing an expression that, in earlier seasons, we would usually only see if he were talking to a Goa'uld. The fans dubbed it his "snakebaiting" expression. I saw it WAY too much in Season 8, and not just in the context of the Goa'uld, but also in the context of speaking to his friends.

In Season 9, the first thing I saw was Daniel being friendly to Cam, and in a flashback, giving Cam a heartfelt thank-you. The first heartfelt thank-you I'd seen since Season 5. I'd really missed the heartfelt thank-you's. I'd really missed the heart-felt everything. This, to me, is one of the two big differences between Seasons 8 and 9 where Daniel's concerned - Daniel's behavior might be a little more practical and action-related than it was in Season 5, but everything he's done and said so far this season has been heart-felt - he clearly is doing and saying what he does, because he cares.

The second thing I'd missed about Daniel was his ethical focus. See earlier comment regarding total ethical blind spots in New Order, and the focus on his own safety in Prometheus Unbound and Reckoning (just picking two examples off the top of my head). The Daniel I know and love naturally looks at things from the standpoint of "is it the right thing to do?" and if the answer is "no," then he digs his feet in the ground and argues against doing it. And if the answer is "yes," he does it, even against orders, and regardless of his own safety. Just like he's been doing with Vala and with the Ori all season. It's been wonderful to see.

Regarding Vala: I thought Daniel explained his behavior towards her fairly well, actually. He knows what she's doing, the games she's playing to keep from getting close. He really likes her (I can tell, especially from his reaction to her "deaths" in Avalon and BeachHead), but if he let on, then this would consign him to the category of "just another conquest," and he'd forever lose all respect in her eyes - and therefore he would lose all hope of anything meaningful with her in the future. So, between that and her constant advances, he has no choice but to play impossible-to-get. I doubt he's doing it consciously (I doubt he realizes consciously just how much he cares), but he's acting that way because he cares.

Plus, keep in mind that at the time of the basketball game, Daniel has had to put up with her constant and extremely distracting presence for well over a month. Because of something she did, during one of her frequent "I have a moral blind spot the size of the Titanic" moments (hee! Did I mention you couldn't ask for a more perfect foil for Daniel? ). Not to mention, it's because of her that he's not currently realizing his lifetime dream. And she's been making constant advances that he's had to rebuff, usually while he's trying to get some work done. And it must be frustrating to meet one of the very few people in the universe who can match him for sheer stubborness. And her comments are usually distracting, inappropriate, and unhelpful, and after a month of them, I'm not at all surprised that he's learned to tune her out whenever he needs to concentrate.

What I saw was, the scholar, the youthful (even with the Furling attacking his face) enthusiast was back. He can be Action!Jackson when the situation demands, but I didn't get the feeling in these episodes that this was the correct behavior, and he had to outgrow those other silly notions of his, like I was getting before. The Daniel who gets excited over a new discovery, who gets happy over a book is Daniel. I especially love Mitchell calling attention to the fact that he doesn't even notice treasure when he's got a book. It was like tptb saying, "Yes, we get it. It's not a little amusing sidenote to Daniel's character -it's an ingrained part of who he is." I hope they never go back to him being nothing but a soldier.

I'd also missed Scholar!Daniel, and it's good to see him again - it just isn't the thing I'd missed most about him, so I didn't mention it before.

(I wonder what you'll think of Prototype. Some people see it as being very out of character. I disagree. It's not the immediate thing you think of when you think of Daniel, but I think it's extremely in character, just not a side that's shown much -see my comments in the Prototype thread, and my latest (under spoiler tags) in the Daniel appreciation one.

I agree completely - it was extremely in character. (Speaking a vaguely as possible in case there are others who haven't seen Prototype yet) Throughout the episode, there were oblique references to Absolute Power (really nice bit of continuity there!), and it's clear that he's thinking of that when he makes his position known, and he realizes the definite danger (not just the possibility of danger, but the definite danger) was too great. The only thing I thought odd was that the possibility that the genetic memories might be suppressed, the way they were with Shifu, never occurred to him... although it's possible that he did think of it, but Khalen's bald-faced lie about his home eliminated that possibility.

I like Mitchell. I loved his initial fanboy reaction to SG1. I mean fanboy in a positive manner. If SG1 was a sports team, he'd be wearing the jerseys and waving the flags and pointing the big foam finger, shouting, "We're number 1!" It's cute. I also like how the fanboy thing tempered off as he got to know them beyond the legend of being SG1. He still respects them, but he's not so much in awe, because he knows them more personally. As for the "mortal peril" card, it could have been too soon, except I think they went in the opposite direction. They glossed over it too much. If you're going to put a main cast member in peril, at least do a better job. I didn't even realise it had been Mitchell at first. It might as well have been some nameless extra. So, what was the point?

Glad to see I wasn't the only one who had trouble recognizing Cam on the bed

Off on a bit of a tangent - what do you think of the "tingling" thing? They've mentioned it twice now (as of ep 9 - haven't seen 10 yet), so I'm starting to think this is going to be an important plot point. Maybe even a really important point, like the key to defeating the Ori. Or, conversely, a future weakness in those that were healed.

And, the biggest thing I love, they're showing these people as friends. Not the crappy, "well, you already know they like each other, so it's understood." No. No. No. That's a copout. Here, I'm seeing it. Sometimes it's little things, sometimes it's bigger. But, it's on screen, where it should be.

Yes, yes, yes!

[Dani347]

Interesting, I would have described Reckoning as him doing his best to fight the RC to save everyone else. And, he's naturally worried about himself as well. But, I didn't see him as being uncompassionate.

Katerine

Regarding Vala: I thought Daniel explained his behavior towards her fairly well, actually. He knows what she's doing, the games she's playing to keep from getting close. He really likes her (I can tell, especially from his reaction to her "deaths" in Avalon and BeachHead), but if he let on, then this would consign him to the category of "just another conquest," and he'd forever lose all respect in her eyes - and therefore he would lose all hope of anything meaningful with her in the future. So, between that and her constant advances, he has no choice but to play impossible-to-get. I doubt he's doing it consciously (I doubt he realizes consciously just how much he cares), but he's acting that way because he cares.

Oh, I don't think Daniel likes her that way. I mean, if I'm reading this right, and you're suggesting he has romantic feelings for her. I don't know, the whole impossible to get definition sounds like something you do when you want to have some kind of relationship. I think he likes her almost the same way he likes Teal'c or Sam or Jack and that he's starting to like Mitchell. He's becoming more friendly and of course, her deaths (hmm, I don't know if Beachhead should count as a death) would call out his compassion. I think he sees her as more than an annoyance now, although still an annoyance. But, I don't think he gives a hoot about what category he's in, or that he wants anything meaningful. I don't see anything shippy. She's a different kind of relationship (again, not shippy kind) than we've seen him in before. She's a foil without being an enemy, she's someone who he can get along with without being an actual friend. My long winded way of saying I'm not a Daniel/Vala shipper

Plus, keep in mind that at the time of the basketball game, Daniel has had to put up with her constant and extremely distracting presence for well over a month. Because of something she did, during one of her frequent "I have a moral blind spot the size of the Titanic" moments (hee! Did I mention you couldn't ask for a more perfect foil for Daniel? ). Not to mention, it's because of her that he's not currently realizing his lifetime dream. And she's been making constant advances that he's had to rebuff, usually while he's trying to get some work done. And it must be frustrating to meet one of the very few people in the universe who can match him for sheer stubborness. And her comments are usually distracting, inappropriate, and unhelpful, and after a month of them, I'm not at all surprised that he's learned to tune her out whenever he needs to concentrate.

I agree. I really didn't see his actions in Beachhead as being any worse than anyhing else he's done with her during the rest of the season. From the beginning he's been short, snarky, irritated with her. Vala gets on his nerves. And, they spar with each other. It's kind of like Daniel and Jack, only more volatile. And, Vala gives as good as she gets.

[sgatelvr]

I don't really want to wander off topic on this thread. Katerine and Dani, you both make good points--I just happen to disagree. I think Daniel is being made to fit into Jack's shoes--in fact, I see that more than tptb putting Mitchell in that role--and they don't fit. I used to love Daniel, and I'm mourning him. Maybe Mitchell is right to call him "Jackson." that fits him better than Daniel, now.

In any event, I hope he is written differently in the latter part of the season. JMO.