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View Full Version : Atlantis - Innovative new show, or SG-1's death throes?



HisDivineShadow
July 10th, 2004, 03:24 AM
Any sci-fi fan with a good memory knows that introducing a spin-off is what Sci-Fi shows do when they are going down the toilet. I offer the second half of Season Seven as support of my theory. If you don't believe me, look up The Lone Gunmen, Young Hercules, and Crusade, spinoffs that failed to save The X-Files, Hercules: The Legendary Journeys, and Babylon 5 respectively when their collective numbers were up.

However, I am still willing to give this show the benefit of the doubt. Primarily because Dr. Weir is beyond hot. Ooooh yeah. Hottie. She needs to put on a few pounds though, but still. Damn.

-His Divine Shadow

Anubis
July 10th, 2004, 04:03 AM
Hmmm, not always the case but sometimes. I doubt Sci-Fi are going down the drain because they wouldn't have demanded another season and a show

Ugly Pig
July 10th, 2004, 06:36 AM
Any sci-fi fan with a good memory knows that introducing a spin-off is what Sci-Fi shows do when they are going down the toilet.
Since Atlantis has been planned by the creators for years already, this is certainly not the case here.

Hohenzollern
July 10th, 2004, 10:40 AM
Yes, that thought has been at the back of my mind since the series was announced. Precedent is well founded.

BUT we have yet to see it, and if it is the SG-1's death throes it won't be for lack of my support.

I will watch.

Stargate Agent
July 10th, 2004, 06:08 PM
Are you on crack man?? Not all Spin-Offs are bad.

For example, Star Trek the Next Generation was a spin-off of the original series and it put Science Fiction on the map bigtime!!! ST:TNG became so big it became a household name. Everyone and I mean Everyone has heard of the name STAR TREK. Besides a great majority of people know of Jean-Luc Picard and friends.

Secondly Star Trek: Deep Space 9 was an incredible follow up to TNG as well. Great storyline with the Dominion War. :D

However Star Trek: Voyager and Star Trek: Enterprise didn't do that great. Voyager had a great premise for a show (trying to get home, being stranded), but I don't think it got carried over very well. Enterprise is going into Season 4 but I don't think the storylines are that great right now. Some of them are downright boring. :(

Stargate SG-1 is still a successful series. I think Season 7 was great overall lotsa of really good episodes. And if "New Order" was any indication what Season 7 will be like then Season 8 of SG-1 will be even better. :D

Have some faith, just like the people who had faith in SG-1 when it started way back when with "Children of the Gods," we need to the same for Atlantis... :cool:

AgentX
July 10th, 2004, 06:13 PM
I don't about introducing a spin-off because SG1 is going down the toilet - personally I don't think it is. I just feel that the SciFi Network is trying to attach it's most popular show's name and premise to another series to give the network another hit.

Ugly Pig
July 10th, 2004, 06:17 PM
I just feel that the SciFi Network is trying to attach it's most popular show's name and premise to another series to give the network another hit.
Like I mentioned... The plan to do Stargate Atlantis has been around for years. Unless I'm mistaken, even before SG-1 went to SciFi. I believe it was Brad Wright who first pitched the idea.

vikingjedi
July 10th, 2004, 06:54 PM
To me it seems like how Star Trek: Next Generation led to DS9, which probably means this is the last season of SG-1 (maybe one more?).

No doubt a lot of spin-offs have failed. Its a completely new show, so you never know. Personally Im thinking it will be great.

ShadowMaat
July 10th, 2004, 07:29 PM
As has already been mentioned, Atlantis has been in the works for years. It was meant to be a passing-of-the-torch thing, but things have had to be reworked due to SG-1's continuing popularity.

Season six was supposed to be the last season of SG-1. Not because things were "going down the toilet" but because one season was all SCIFI bought. After the show concluded, there was going to be an SG-1 movie that would help to launch Atlantis. However, SCIFI decided to pick up the show for another season, so there was a mad scramble as everything was hastily reworked to suit this. The SG-1 movie became the S7 finale "Lost City" and Atlantis had to be done over to compensate for this and to plan ahead in case SG-1 got picked up for another season. Which it did. Because it's popular.

SO... now SG-1 is heading into its eighth (and probably final) season. There's no more movie (although future stuff could be planned) and Atlantis, which was supposed to stand alone, is being forced into a different direction so that it won't counter anything that happens on the still-on-the-air SG-1.

If SG-1 was toilet-bound, it wouldn't keep getting renewed and there would be no plans for a spinoff as it wouldn't be seen as "economically viable".

Also, while you can quote crappy "spinoffs" to your heart's content, not ALL spinoffs are bad nor are they created because the main show is floundering. Buffy and Angel did quite well running concurrently. And, since you mentioned Hercules, let's not forget that the extremely popular Xena was also a spinoff of that show.

Personally, I don't think that spinoffs are created to save the original show, they're created to help the show's universe branch out in new directions.

You don't have to like it. You don't have to believe it. You don't even have to watch if you don't want to, but I'd like to offer you a small piece of advice: If you're going to go into a show convinced that it's crap because it's a spinoff, then don't be surprised if you think it's crap.

Me, I'm planning to watch because I'm hoping Atlantis will preserve the ideals set forth by SG-1 and that the new environment will help the writers recapture the spark of creativity so that they can successfully branch out the Stargate universe and give us all a little something extra to enjoy.

Like getting to see McKay full time. :D

Ugly Pig
July 10th, 2004, 08:36 PM
Gasp! Shadow, do you realise you've written about a page's worth of your thoughts on the future of Stargate with no negative comments in it whatsoever? Are you feeling allright? :p

ShadowMaat
July 10th, 2004, 08:41 PM
Bite me, Pig Boy. :P

Negative comments would have detracted from the point I was trying to make. And anyway, I'm more on about defending Atlantis which, if I may be so bold as to point out, hasn't even aired yet!! It's a bit hard to say it's going to be crap when all we've had are bits of scenes and random stuff from the lowdown.

If His Divine-ness had bothered going over actual plot/character problems inherent in the show, I'd probably have something different to say, something a little more meaty. But "SG-1 must be going down the toilet if it's gonna have a spinoff and since spinoffs suck, Atlantis will suck, too!" doesn't really lend itself to an intelligent discussion. :P

Whatever failings Atlantis may or may not have, I'll still watch for my Wodney. :D

IWantToBelieve
July 11th, 2004, 08:42 AM
Whenever spin-offs have been announced in the past I've groaned. They are usually totally corny and not worth the time. Like someone else pointed out, there have been exceptions (and I happen to think Enterprise is an exception because it's one of my fav shows).

I'm very exited about Atlantis. It doesn't strike me as a spin-off in the typical fashion rather an expansion of the Stargate world. The concept, art and actors have me very hopeful! I'm chomping at the bit for Friday to get here!!! It's been a long long time since we've had a new sci-fi show to get hyped over.

Anubis
July 11th, 2004, 08:43 AM
Generally, I think spin-offs don't always succeed as the original, but I think Atlantis will be different. Or at least I hope

aAnubiSs
July 11th, 2004, 08:53 AM
Hum.. I'm sure I posted in this topic.

SG:A will be great, no doubt about it.

B5: Crusade would have been great if the Network would have given JMS a Carte Blanche instead of forcing him to do things.

Anubis
July 11th, 2004, 08:54 AM
Really, SGA will be one if not the best spin-off yet I have scene going by all these ads

IWantToBelieve
July 11th, 2004, 08:58 AM
I'm with you Anubis, I really think this show is going to rock.

Anubis
July 11th, 2004, 08:59 AM
YAY! I'm gaining everyones agreement! Mumahaaaaa!!!!

IWantToBelieve
July 11th, 2004, 09:02 AM
Is that a rare thing? ;)

aAnubiSs
July 11th, 2004, 09:12 AM
His thoughts are drowned in the amount of posts he makes, so it just floats away :)

po134
July 11th, 2004, 09:14 AM
anyway this year is probably the last year of SG-1 because its too expensive and O'Neill work only 4 days/weeks then he won't be able to return in an SG-teams as usual ! They've only 20 episode this years ...

I really don't want it is the last years but everything go in that direction ! Atlantis is a like a refresh to attract the fans aigain even is scifi will never say that [Ahahaha a Weir new sentence =)] !

But I think SG-1 can still have many good years before it becomes "obseletes" ahhh soo many "souvenirs" in past seven years ... a new seasons has begun and now we think it'll be the last [Aigain ?] I hope no !;)

aAnubiSs
July 11th, 2004, 12:07 PM
there's like a billion more episodes in SG1 just to tie up old plots.

Anubis
July 11th, 2004, 12:10 PM
I agree. I think over about two seasons of SG-1 they could tie up everything! Maybe

aAnubiSs
July 11th, 2004, 12:11 PM
They can't cancel SG1 before they've answered the most important question in the series:

"That just happens so be how I feel about it. What do you think?"

Stargate Agent
July 13th, 2004, 09:29 AM
Those lines are annoying eh?
(That was from Window of Opportunity right?)

Stupid cut of lines where you are left wondering what the heck was he gonna say! BAH!

VirtualCLD
July 15th, 2004, 09:18 AM
Hmm... Well I think all of my thoughts have been posted on this thread, so I really have nothing more to add, just to reinforce.

Some spin-offs work and some don't. I see a lot os spin-offs added due to popularity, not due to the original show failing. Whether they catch on or not is another story. I'm giving Atlantis my full support (as much as I can give since I haven't actually seen the premiere yet). There is nothing to say that it's introduction is a result of bad... things. I believe the reason why so many people are willing to gamble on it is due to the popularity of Stargate, not it's death. TNG to DS9 transistion is probably the best example of spin-off/hand-off. TNG stuck around for one season while DS9 got in place and it worked. A similar situation to Voyager (whether that's a success or not is debateable, but it did last seven seasons) and the plot is even similar (stranded with not return).

Although I'll reserve full judgement untill I get to start watching episodes, I'm going to be highly anticipating Stargate Atlantis.

(wow, that was a lot for not having much to say. I should not say a lot of things more often)

David85
July 15th, 2004, 09:48 AM
Voyager was crap and only added because the dumb people in charge of Star Trek didn't think DS9 would work but it got the highest ratings out of all the Treks.

This spinoff has been planned for like 4-5 years now, I remember during the 3rd or 4th season of Stargate they were talking about a spinoff and all they would say was it was called Atlantis. Since then it has really changed, but I think it is for the better. If it was set up on Earth like it was going to then would it have stayed underwater? And you can't have to Stargates on a planet, so how would the SGC work in the movies?

Voyager not being able to get back and Atlatis is different, Voyager was crap, the lost idea wasn't the reason, it could have been a great show but the writers that made TNG and DS9 weren't there, we still have the same people and New Order showed they still have something left in them. Just one more day until we see, but frankly I think so of the episodes down the road sound better than the pilot.

Two things to learn from.....
1. Voyager was crap :D don't ever compare anything to it.
2. My glasses are broken so forgive the typos.

VirtualCLD
July 15th, 2004, 09:58 AM
And you can't have to Stargates on a planet, so how would the SGC work in the movies?

Two things to learn from.....
1. Voyager was crap :D don't ever compare anything to it.
2. My glasses are broken so forgive the typos.

I thought you could have as many Stargates as you like on a planet, only one works at any given point in time.

Yes, I agree, Voyager was more than bad, it was horrible!! :D I guess I should have stuck with the TNG to DS9 analogy. However, I was just reitterating that Atlantis doesn't mean the death of the Stargate Universe.

GhostPoet
July 15th, 2004, 10:27 AM
I think Atlantis will be a MASSIVE success. Infact, i'm betting that the Atlantis premiere will shatter the records SG-1 made with it's premier of season 8.
I think Atlantis will be just as big as SG-1...and that this will open the way for Sg-1 to make films with the more success from BOTH shows they recieve.

We are looking at the next major sci-fi franchise.

chiefchucky
July 15th, 2004, 12:40 PM
I think Atlantis is gonna be a gigantic collosal humogeus success and that everyone who ever doubted it will be like "Damn I was soooooo wrong" and then I'll be like HA! In another ten years when ppl will be like "Star Trek??? Don't u mean StarGate?" and they be saying this because Stargate became a gigantic collosal humogeus success and everyone forgot about StarTrek. WOOOOHOOOOO I'm so happy(ChiefChucky Reminds himself that over 3 million ppl watched New Order)

David85
July 15th, 2004, 02:03 PM
I thought you could have as many Stargates as you like on a planet, only one works at any given point in time.

Yes, I agree, Voyager was more than bad, it was horrible!! :D I guess I should have stuck with the TNG to DS9 analogy. However, I was just reitterating that Atlantis doesn't mean the death of the Stargate Universe.

That's what I meant, if they had Atlantis on Earth that would be three Stargates, which is fine, but only one works at a time. So Atlantis and SGC would need to work together and time things out, plus what if one team needed to get home because they were under attack, but the other gate was open. Opps, sorry... :)

Positively Kanyon
July 15th, 2004, 03:27 PM
We are looking at the next major sci-fi franchise.

I've been saying that to people for God knows how long! MGM has always envisioned Stargate as a franchise on Star Trek levels and what is happening now is a critical turning point in that direction with the spin-off series about to begin.

In my opinion, Atlantis has the potential to be Stargate's version of Trek's Next Generation, where the spin-off eclipses the original series.

Ugly Pig
July 15th, 2004, 03:52 PM
I find it funny that while SG-1 is getting higher viewer ratings than ever, ever expanding its audience and getting more and more media attention... some fans start to seriously discuss its "death throes". I mean, please! The series is thriving like never before! This is just ridiculous. :rolleyes:

chiefchucky
July 15th, 2004, 03:55 PM
I find it funny that while SG-1 is getting higher viewer ratings than ever, ever expanding its audience and getting more and more media attention... some fans start to seriously discuss its "death throes". I mean, please! The series is thriving like never before! This is just ridiculous. :rolleyes:
You are exactly right! Infact I wouldn't doubt it if Sci Fi Renewed Sg-1 Another Year!

Ugly Pig
July 15th, 2004, 03:55 PM
That's what I meant, if they had Atlantis on Earth that would be three Stargates, which is fine, but only one works at a time.
<NITPICK>Two. Two Stargates.</NITPICK> :D

aAnubiSs
July 15th, 2004, 05:34 PM
They should try and get some big network to start airing Season One and then continuing. SG1 needs a broader audience.

Ugly Pig
July 15th, 2004, 05:43 PM
They should try and get some big network to start airing Season One and then continuing. SG1 needs a broader audience.
There's no way a big network would ever even consider airing a show which has already aired elsewhere, much less one that's seven years old. :(

aAnubiSs
July 15th, 2004, 05:47 PM
Now what have I said about being negative :D

chiefchucky
July 15th, 2004, 08:59 PM
I agree with ugly pig. People who run the networks are only interested in one thing---MONEY--- They probabaly would prefer to have a fresh new show that they could call Original as opposed to a practically sydicated one.