Stackhouse, Lorne & Atlantis Family. Or: AK rants about Secondaries again (spoilers).

[alfirin_kirinki]

I actually made this post to a Stackhouse & Markham community and my LJ a couple of weeks ago, but having watched Lost Boys, I thought I'd raise the issue here (with a new note included). It's partly tongue in cheek, so don't bite too hard when you all jump to Lorne's defence:

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Well, I finally managed to watch Conversion, and call me a little bit biased, but does anyone else feel that in this episode they completely robbed Stackhouse of a perfect opportunity to return to the fold?

I've made no secret of the fact that Lorne irritates me beyond belief, but in Conversion we see the team (who are, after this ep, actually starting to feel like a team for the first time since Ford left) returning to a planet they visited before, to deal with some bugs they'd encountered before. During that first encounter, Stackhouse himself was part of the off-world team and would therefore have more knowledge and experience in this situation than Lorne. And also: really deserved the screen time.

What shocked me even more, is that Lorne's ethos appears to be entirely opposite to the old season one stalwarts'. I ask, would anyone who appeared regularly in season one have blown up two so-called 'comrades' just because they screamed a bit? More recently, in Lost Boys, he didn't seem to want to help find Sheppard's team. He gave the impression he thought it would all be too much effort and they should just leave them wherever they were and write them off.

The teams I knew and loved at the start of Atlantis would have gone back in there and dragged them out - because we know how to get the damn bugs off, now, don't we? - they would have been frantic to get Sheppard's team back. It was not unfeasible to save Walker and Stevens; what was unfeasible, was that the whole nest was completely intact after being blown up, but that there was no sign of a corpse when Sheppard returned, later.

This season, I've found that I'm growing increasingly frustrated with the writers' insistance upon bringing in more and more secondary characters when so many from last season are being over-looked. We still aren't sure where Stackhouse actually is. Did he get Wraithed? Did he ship out when they got the ZPM? Is he still knocking around the city, somewhere, never actually on-screen? Why, if he is still around, was he not the first choice for Bates' replacement as head of security? He appears to have been similiarly ranked (there are several grades of Sergeant in the military) and he knows the city, the people and what to expect from the Pegasus Galaxy better than any report Sheppard wrote could ever illustrate to a new-comer. Toward the end of the season, when Stackhouse wasn't on-screen himself, he was being mentioned. All. The. Time. It was Stackhouse and his team charged with securing an alphasite during the siege, and he was one of the first two marines through the gate, accompanying Sumner in Rising.




Several times, he was chosen for off-world missions with Sheppard's team (Rising, 38 Minutes, Suspicion), and has shown himself to be a respected and competent soldier. If anything, it appears that he was being lined up for a more significant role in season two. For this reason, I actually have some suspicion that Lorne was a hurried replacement, drafted in when Boyan himself was cast as a lead in a new project and didn't have the time to do Atlantis as well.

None the less, an explanation - a brief mention of 'since Stackhouse returned to Earth' or 'since we lost Stackhouse', for example - is something I feel was important to maintaining the feel of what Atlantis used to be; the sense of supportive, almost familial, community has been lost and people are suddenly dispensible. The only reason we know Bates was shipped back to Earth is because Martin Gero said so, and he was a fairly damn significant character last season. When we lost Markham and Grodin - even Gaul and Abrahms - it actually mattered, but the current secondary characters have become interchangeable and faceless.

There will be no letter from Pegasus for the families of Walker and Stevens. We probably wouldn't remember them if there was.

For me, since the Gate to Earth has been restored, Atlantis has lost some of the charm that made me love it so much at the start. True, I have a vested interest in Sgt. Stackhouse, and a semi-fondness of Bates, but what of Miko? Kavanagh? Corrigan? Why waste screen time on secondary characters which were nothing more than ill-advised plot devices and sacrifice the spirit of the show?

I'm disappointed. I love the show for what it is and what it was, but I'm afraid of what it is going to become. I feel that it has lost some of its identity with its isolation, and with the secondary characters we have not seen return.

Hopefully, in the second half of this season, or even season three, we will see some of its individuality and identity restored - maybe once what seems to be the 'terrible twos' have settled down. I won't stop watching Atlantis just because my favourite characters aren't around, but it just isn't quite the same, anymore.

[CalmStorm]

Wow, that's a lot to digest in one sitting.

I like Lorne, like what he adds to the show. He seems to come on with more confidence and much more familiarity of the stargate program and off-world missions. To me, it seemed like most of the military that came through with the intitial expedition team just did not have that much familiarity with the stargate program or off-world missions.....and if they did, they seemed relatively new to it.

I also like Stackhouse and would like to see him again or at least hear mention of him. He is a recurring character, and if he has found other work, then I would understand not seeing him as much, or even at all on SGA. You are right though, a mention here and there would be nice. Perhaps TPTB are simply leaving the door open for him if there is an opportunity to write him in or if he would be available.

Zelenka so far has been the one consistent recurring character, and I hope the don't kill him off like poor Grodin....that was an upset.

The dynamics have changed since re-establishing contact with Earth and I think that is to be expected. Before, they were on their own and really had to band together.....the did become like a family. They went through some tough life and death experiences with each other over a year, and with only each other to depend on. Having the ability to gate back to Earth and come back on the Daedalus does change things. For one, there is now someone looking over their shoulders and the decisions being made. There are fresh recruits coming over and new types of missions that are not all about finding food and zpms. Even though the wraith are a very big threat, everyone now has some breathing room with the ability to obtain supplies from Earth and the zpm providing shields in an emergency.

I enjoy the secondary characters and believe them to be a valuable part of the show, especially the re-curring ones. It is nice to have famaliar faces and not spend an episode trying to figure out who the new guy(s) are. However, I think it is to be expected that some come and go without notice as to their status just due to the nature of the industry.

[ShadowMaat]

I don't see why it has to be Stackhouse OR Lorne. Can't both characters co-exist without the need to slag off on one of them?

Stackhouse didn't really stand out for me. I remember him somewhat reflexively and as I look back at pics and see scenes, I can remember liking him, but I never drew it all together and didn't know his name until I saw it cropping up here and investigated.

Lorne, meanwhile, I loved right off the bat. Anyone who can outsnark McKay and stay calm and cheerful about it gets a gold star in my book. But then, I have a different criteria for judging character value.

I would like to see Stackhouse again and to get him more entrenched in my head so that I can knowingly appreciate him whenever I see him, but I want Lorne to stick around, too. I think he's a savvy character with a relaxed good humor about things and an ability to get the job done. Usually.

As far as the secondaries in general go, I love a lot of them, but I don't expect to see them in every single ep or even in every OTHER ep because then they wouldn't be secondaries (or tertiaries).

Atlantis is a big place. There's a lot going on, probably 90% of which we never see. But it doesn't mean that things aren't happening or that characters are gone forever, it just means they aren't around right now. And personally, I'm fine with that.

The Atlantis crew manages to do a decent job of juggling a lot of characters, but you don't want to keep TOO many of them in rotation all at the same time or something's going to suffer- be it the story, the main characters, or even the secondaries, themselves.

I prefer to see the balance be maintained than to get what I want when I want it. But I'm strange that way.

[alfirin_kirinki]

I don't see why it has to be Stackhouse OR Lorne. Can't both characters co-exist without the need to slag off on one of them?

Oh, I know. It doesn't have to be Lorne, Stacks or anyone else. But considering the role within the team - particularly around the missions in Conversion, it just seems like they'd have fitted with the role that Stackhouse seemed to be developing.

Lorne, meanwhile, I loved right off the bat. Anyone who can outsnark McKay and stay calm and cheerful about it gets a gold star in my book. But then, I have a different criteria for judging character value.

Hmm, see, I was probably biased a little against him, but I didn't like Lorne from the first time I saw him. He was just irritating, as far as I was concerned. And then he blew up his own men for no good reason and couldn't be bothered to go and find the main team (a point I notice neither of the responses so far noted! ). That doesn't fit with someone who belongs on Atlantis, for me.

I would like to see Stackhouse again and to get him more entrenched in my head so that I can knowingly appreciate him whenever I see him, but I want Lorne to stick around, too. I think he's a savvy character with a relaxed good humor about things and an ability to get the job done. Usually.

I'm sure he's very savvy. But not savvy enough to know that he could save his team, and didn't have to blow them up.

As far as the secondaries in general go, I love a lot of them, but I don't expect to see them in every single ep or even in every OTHER ep because then they wouldn't be secondaries (or tertiaries).

Well, no - obviously not!

Atlantis is a big place. There's a lot going on, probably 90% of which we never see. But it doesn't mean that things aren't happening or that characters are gone forever, it just means they aren't around right now. And personally, I'm fine with that.

Yeah, but with characters like Bates and Stacks, at least, it would just be nice to have some idea of what happened to them...

The Atlantis crew manages to do a decent job of juggling a lot of characters, but you don't want to keep TOO many of them in rotation all at the same time or something's going to suffer- be it the story, the main characters, or even the secondaries, themselves.

I prefer to see the balance be maintained than to get what I want when I want it. But I'm strange that way.

Well, it bothered me that they brought in all these new characters, and seemed to instantly forget about all the others. The writing team have been on this job a long time, you'd think they'd know how much the fans get into the secondaries and obsess on things like continuity...

[Hatcheter]

Stackhouse didn't really stand out for me. I remember him somewhat reflexively and as I look back at pics and see scenes, I can remember liking him, but I never drew it all together and didn't know his name until I saw it cropping up here and investigated.

I might be stepping on toes here, and am certainly making crap up, but I don't think Stackhouse was secondary. He was a tertiary character (third, for those of you in Rio Linda). He was in six episodes (counting Rising I and II seperately), had only a handful of lines, and only one real dialogue, in 'Suspicion'. The character's actions were never of any significance in any episode.

The character has fulfilled his tour of duty, and has been reassigned. No big deal, happens all the time.

Lorne, IMO, is the replacement for Bates, who was a more significant part of season one, and a true secondary character.

[alfirin_kirinki]

I might be stepping on toes here, and am certainly making crap up, but I don't think Stackhouse was secondary. He was a tertiary character (third, for those of you in Rio Linda). He was in six episodes (counting Rising I and II seperately), had only a handful of lines, and only one real dialogue, in 'Suspicion'. The character's actions were never of any significance in any episode.

I guess we just have different ideas of what constitutes a secondary/tertiary! To me a tertiary would be Markham (much as I am loathe to admit that he's anything less than the entire reason for the existance of SGA! Hehe), Miller, Miko...

Kavanagh (did we ever establish if there really is a 'u' in his name or not?) is a secondary, to me. He's only been in two episodes.

Lorne, IMO, is the replacement for Bates, who was a more significant part of season one, and a true secondary character.

He was only in nine episodes himself... But if you were to re-watch season one, I could point out some things that really suggested to me that Stackhouse was going to be brought to the fore a little more. Obviously not a primary character, but they seemed to make sure we remembered him through the Siege eps when he wasn't actually on screen.

The reason I say that Lorne seems to be more of a replacement for Stackhouse, is that he goes off world. Bates only ever went off-world twice at most, that we know of, and one of those was during Rising when a lot of people went to establish an alpha site. Lorne may be one of the most senior military staff, now, and if he's head of security (which unless I've missed something, he doesn't seem to be - which poses the question: who is?) it's just by default.

The point I was making, was that it wouldn't be unreasonable to think those eps we've seen him in to have been something that Stackhouse would have been suitable for. He seems to have been out in the field a lot, and in particular, in Conversion, had they kept him on for this season, he would have been a better person to lead that expedition because he was on the original team that went there.

Thus, I have a theory that when Boyan went to Europe to film Within they were stuck with someone needing to fill that role, and so they brought in Lorne, if you see what I mean?