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    Howto: Intergalactic Travel

    I recently posted this in the thread, 'Atlantis - Season Two, FTL Drive?' and decided I should repost it here to make it more visible because that thread died and I was rather pleased with how it turned out, I hope you think so also.

    -----------------------------------

    According to Einstein's Theory of Relativity it is possible to travel the speed of light, but first you need infinite mass and you need infinite energy to do so.

    At 99.9999999% of the speed of light, the mass of your vessel including the vessel and all of its contents will have effectively doubled, and it's fuel consumption will have increased astronomically because the faster you go, the more energy you need in order to increase speed further due to resistances.

    Once you hit 100% of the speed of light the mass of your vessel including the vessel and all of its contents will have reached infinity, but it will have required infinite fuel in order to reach this state.

    Additionally, a single atom will have the ability to totally cut through the hull of the vessel because of the velocity you will be traveling.

    -----

    There is a way around this, but most mainstream scientists don't like the idea, and there isn't really even a theory to describe it other than the theory of everything / string theory.

    It goes like this... let's assume the universe is infinite, and because of that there exists infinite universes. This comprises the multi-verse and all of the dimensions of every universe within the multi-verse.

    Now, let's take two individual universes and single them out. One is a matter universe (like ours) and the other is an anti-matter universe (unlike ours). We don't currently fully understand gravity at all or why it exists, but we know it's there. Therefore, we will assume for this hypothesis that the Electromagnetic Spectrum in our universe (matter universe) acts as gravity in our counterpart universe (anti-matter universe) and our counterpart universe's (anti-matter universe) Electromagnetic Spectrum acts as the gravity in our universe (matter universe).

    Now, we know that as planets and stars travel through space, they expel energy. Nothing moves without a loss of energy and all objects in space move. Let's just go ahead and assume that this expelling of energy throughout space is actually what we know of as 'time'. So because of this assumption we have indirectly stated that time is a form of energy.

    Here's where the viewers of this post may lose me... Our hypothesis states that each point in space exhibits a unique rate for time, and that each planet and star has its own gravitational signature and it's own unique time continuum field. As planets and stars move throughout space and expel energy their atomic structures change, and each location in space has it's very own atomic structure of all of the matter within it. Hydrogen will still be Hydrogen and Uranium will still be Uranium, but the spin of the electrons may be different, and the nucleus of the atoms may be arranged slightly different. There are infinite arrangements, thus infinite points in space.

    Now let's assume with our little hypothesis that there exists a way to modify the arrangements of all of the atoms within your vessel. The food, people, hull of the ship, and everything else within it can have its atoms modified. The ship will create a containment field around the vessel so that everything around the ship and the ship itself will be included in the atomic structure and arrangement modification.

    Now let's assume we have built a super computer that has the ability to calculate the current atomic structure of points in space, maybe even points tillions of lightyears away outside of the galaxy. The computer locks onto a point, and begins to modify the gravity and time signature of the ship by rearranging the atomic structure and arrangement of all of the atoms inside of the containment field.

    Once this happens, the multi-verse itself sees this anomaly and realizes that something has went very wrong with this particular containment field and everything within it, because it does not match its surroundings. The multi-verse itself knows the location of all of its contents and after a brief search it will find the "best place" to relocate the vessel that has the anomaly - the place the crew of this vessel wishes to go. And then the entire force of the multi-verse itself acts to move this vessel so that it matches its surroundings. You, your crew, and your ship will instantly be teleported to the location your super-computer calculated within the multi-verse. Most likely you will have broken the speed of light unless you only traveled to the moon or somewhere nearby.

    But you really haven't. In all reality you have just exploited the system of the multi-verse. You didn't travel even 1mph. You traveled 0mph and instantaneously arrived at your destination.

    There's three things you must realize that you have to master before this technology will be possible. You have to master gravity. That means within your ship you will have gravity, just like the Prometheus, the Galactica, or even the Starship Enterprise - that's one. You have to master anti-gravity. That means you can travel around the planet by controlling the gravity of your craft itself. It will be like watching a movie such as "Top Gun" when the fighter pilot is high in the atmosphere. You see the plane moving around, but you can't feel the G forces because you aren't moving at all. This is what it would be like to be in an antigravity capable craft. Looking out the windows will feel like everything else is moving around you and you're stationary - that's two. And you have to master atomic structure modification and rearrangement, which can be done by modifying the gravity on individual atoms to match distant locations or by actually modifying the atoms themselves which is far harder than simply exerting specific gravity on them - that's three.

    That's all I know about the subject, and its all hypothesis within string theory. Although, stargates could be created using this theory by linking all the gates within the galaxy together with a subspace link so that they could communicate their current gravity and time signatures to all the other gates within the galaxy. Then, when a gate dials another gate, the subspace link tells the gates to activate a portal - not a wormhole - to the other location. When a person steps through the gate what would happen would be their atomic structure and the clothing and items they carry would have their gravity to match that of the gate they were dialing. Then they would feel as though they had stepped through a stargate, minus the wormhole traveling through space thing. No demolecularization, no getting stuck in any buffers, and no problems if you connect to a world with a black hole. The "event horizon" - if there was one at all - would be purely cosmetic. In fact you could open a portal to a world without any gates at all, or even send gates to worlds without gates from a gate and assemble it when you get to the other side.

    This is all a hypothesis within a theory, take it however you will, and enjoy
    Sorry Ori, I was born okay the first time.

    #2
    Originally posted by illuminarok
    I recently posted this in the thread, 'Atlantis - Season Two, FTL Drive?' and decided I should repost it here to make it more visible because that thread died and I was rather pleased with how it turned out, I hope you think so also.

    -----------------------------------

    According to Einstein's Theory of Relativity it is possible to travel the speed of light, but first you need infinite mass and you need infinite energy to do so.

    At 99.9999999% of the speed of light, the mass of your vessel including the vessel and all of its contents will have effectively doubled, and it's fuel consumption will have increased astronomically because the faster you go, the more energy you need in order to increase speed further due to resistances.

    Once you hit 100% of the speed of light the mass of your vessel including the vessel and all of its contents will have reached infinity, but it will have required infinite fuel in order to reach this state.

    Additionally, a single atom will have the ability to totally cut through the hull of the vessel because of the velocity you will be traveling.

    -----

    There is a way around this, but most mainstream scientists don't like the idea, and there isn't really even a theory to describe it other than the theory of everything / string theory.

    It goes like this... let's assume the universe is infinite, and because of that there exists infinite universes. This comprises the multi-verse and all of the dimensions of every universe within the multi-verse.

    Now, let's take two individual universes and single them out. One is a matter universe (like ours) and the other is an anti-matter universe (unlike ours). We don't currently fully understand gravity at all or why it exists, but we know it's there. Therefore, we will assume for this hypothesis that the Electromagnetic Spectrum in our universe (matter universe) acts as gravity in our counterpart universe (anti-matter universe) and our counterpart universe's (anti-matter universe) Electromagnetic Spectrum acts as the gravity in our universe (matter universe).

    Now, we know that as planets and stars travel through space, they expel energy. Nothing moves without a loss of energy and all objects in space move. Let's just go ahead and assume that this expelling of energy throughout space is actually what we know of as 'time'. So because of this assumption we have indirectly stated that time is a form of energy.

    Here's where the viewers of this post may lose me... Our hypothesis states that each point in space exhibits a unique rate for time, and that each planet and star has its own gravitational signature and it's own unique time continuum field. As planets and stars move throughout space and expel energy their atomic structures change, and each location in space has it's very own atomic structure of all of the matter within it. Hydrogen will still be Hydrogen and Uranium will still be Uranium, but the spin of the electrons may be different, and the nucleus of the atoms may be arranged slightly different. There are infinite arrangements, thus infinite points in space.

    Now let's assume with our little hypothesis that there exists a way to modify the arrangements of all of the atoms within your vessel. The food, people, hull of the ship, and everything else within it can have its atoms modified. The ship will create a containment field around the vessel so that everything around the ship and the ship itself will be included in the atomic structure and arrangement modification.

    Now let's assume we have built a super computer that has the ability to calculate the current atomic structure of points in space, maybe even points tillions of lightyears away outside of the galaxy. The computer locks onto a point, and begins to modify the gravity and time signature of the ship by rearranging the atomic structure and arrangement of all of the atoms inside of the containment field.

    Once this happens, the multi-verse itself sees this anomaly and realizes that something has went very wrong with this particular containment field and everything within it, because it does not match its surroundings. The multi-verse itself knows the location of all of its contents and after a brief search it will find the "best place" to relocate the vessel that has the anomaly - the place the crew of this vessel wishes to go. And then the entire force of the multi-verse itself acts to move this vessel so that it matches its surroundings. You, your crew, and your ship will instantly be teleported to the location your super-computer calculated within the multi-verse. Most likely you will have broken the speed of light unless you only traveled to the moon or somewhere nearby.

    But you really haven't. In all reality you have just exploited the system of the multi-verse. You didn't travel even 1mph. You traveled 0mph and instantaneously arrived at your destination.

    There's three things you must realize that you have to master before this technology will be possible. You have to master gravity. That means within your ship you will have gravity, just like the Prometheus, the Galactica, or even the Starship Enterprise - that's one. You have to master anti-gravity. That means you can travel around the planet by controlling the gravity of your craft itself. It will be like watching a movie such as "Top Gun" when the fighter pilot is high in the atmosphere. You see the plane moving around, but you can't feel the G forces because you aren't moving at all. This is what it would be like to be in an antigravity capable craft. Looking out the windows will feel like everything else is moving around you and you're stationary - that's two. And you have to master atomic structure modification and rearrangement, which can be done by modifying the gravity on individual atoms to match distant locations or by actually modifying the atoms themselves which is far harder than simply exerting specific gravity on them - that's three.

    That's all I know about the subject, and its all hypothesis within string theory. Although, stargates could be created using this theory by linking all the gates within the galaxy together with a subspace link so that they could communicate their current gravity and time signatures to all the other gates within the galaxy. Then, when a gate dials another gate, the subspace link tells the gates to activate a portal - not a wormhole - to the other location. When a person steps through the gate what would happen would be their atomic structure and the clothing and items they carry would have their gravity to match that of the gate they were dialing. Then they would feel as though they had stepped through a stargate, minus the wormhole traveling through space thing. No demolecularization, no getting stuck in any buffers, and no problems if you connect to a world with a black hole. The "event horizon" - if there was one at all - would be purely cosmetic. In fact you could open a portal to a world without any gates at all, or even send gates to worlds without gates from a gate and assemble it when you get to the other side.

    This is all a hypothesis within a theory, take it however you will, and enjoy
    Assume. Assume. Assume. Without reason.

    Now with added lesbians.

    Comment


      #3
      Sorry dude, this theory is all assumptions. The only way I know of to access another universe is via a wormhole, which requires negative energy... which has yet to be proven to exist.

      Containment field... how do we make one of them?

      Mastering atomic structure... if that means knowing the exact location of elementary particles, the uncertainty principle 'should' stop you from doing that... I don't believe it myself, but others here on gateworld are rather passionate

      gravity/anti-gravity... you got any idea's on how to do that?

      Still, in 5000 years we might have some tech to test you theory. My philosophy is never to bag anything, coz i might be right later on... like when people thought the earth was flat, it was round etc.
      Last edited by smartquin; 17 September 2005, 03:08 PM.


      The Ultimate Tech thread, for more discussions on FTL, ZPE, and pie

      Relativity Q & A - Got questions? Want answers? Me too, but i got some answers too

      Click this link to visit the place for my ideas and experiments to hide

      Comment


        #4
        Wow. Interesting theory. But my head exploded after the third sentence.

        In actuality, the theory presented makes quite a few assumptions, but i guess a theory has to start somewhere. Modifying atomic structures seems a little risky, doesn't it? What if an error occurs during the restructuring cycle? What then? The ship gets sent to who knows where with the possibility of no return. Or even worse, the ship simply ceases to exist.

        I still think interstaller travel via wormholes is best. But the concept of wormholes is still, at best, a theory. However, physicists are willing to concede that wormholes are actually theoretically possible.

        Comment


          #5
          Yeah, that's a lot of assumptions. There are at least five theories whithin the world of physics that could be applied in interstellar travel, all of them founded on mathematics and extablished theories (Relativity; quantum mechanics). Yours is based upon broad and unfounded assumptions on the nature of the Universe. Very good thinking, though.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by illuminarok
            According to Einstein's Theory of Relativity it is possible to travel the speed of light, but first you need infinite mass and you need infinite energy to do so.
            Ergo since infinite energy is impossible, and infinite mass even in an infinite space would cause a singularity... travel at light speed is impossible.

            At 99.9999999% of the speed of light, the mass of your vessel including the vessel and all of its contents will have effectively doubled, and it's fuel consumption will have increased astronomically because the faster you go, the more energy you need in order to increase speed further due to resistances.

            Once you hit 100% of the speed of light the mass of your vessel including the vessel and all of its contents will have reached infinity, but it will have required infinite fuel in order to reach this state.
            Where do we get infinite fuel from? (oh and the ability to consume it at an infinite rate)

            Additionally, a single atom will have the ability to totally cut through the hull of the vessel because of the velocity you will be traveling.
            There wouldn't be anything left to cut through.

            There is a way around this, but most mainstream scientists don't like the idea
            Which mainstream scientists? Define mainstream scientists?

            and there isn't really even a theory to describe it other than the theory of everything / string theory.
            I hope you'll expand upon this.

            It goes like this... let's assume the universe is infinite
            Why assume? Evidence points to the opposite being true? Why would you throw out and reject the hypothesis that evidence supports?

            and because of that there exists infinite universes.
            Why? There's just no reason to. You're pulling assumptions out of the air.
            This comprises the multi-verse and all of the dimensions of every universe within the multi-verse.
            Again, any evidence or even anything at all to suggest this?

            Now, let's take two individual universes and single them out. One is a matter universe (like ours) and the other is an anti-matter universe (unlike ours).
            We don't currently fully understand gravity at all or why it exists, but we know it's there.
            Yes we do. We have very good theories of gravity, what is is and why it exists.

            Therefore, we will assume for this hypothesis that the Electromagnetic Spectrum in our universe (matter universe) acts as gravity in our counterpart universe (anti-matter universe) and our counterpart universe's (anti-matter universe) Electromagnetic Spectrum acts as the gravity in our universe (matter universe).
            Errr... why? "Therefore..." Usually therefore is preceded by a good reason to suppose what follows it. You just started a paragraph with it with no backing whatsoever before. Until you give me one good reason I won't even consider "assuming" the reversed roles of the EM spectrum and gravity, not that they have anything to do with each other, or even could seeing as they are in entirely different universes.

            Now, we know that as planets and stars travel through space, they expel energy. Nothing moves without a loss of energy and all objects in space move.
            Photons move... neutrinos move. Electrons move...

            Let's just go ahead and assume that this expelling of energy throughout space is actually what we know of as 'time'. So because of this assumption we have indirectly stated that time is a form of energy.
            Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? Seriously, get this thread out of Science and Tech.

            Here's where the viewers of this post may lose me... Our hypothesis states that each point in space exhibits a unique rate for time, and that each planet and star has its own gravitational signature and it's own unique time continuum field. As planets and stars move throughout space and expel energy their atomic structures change, and each location in space has it's very own atomic structure of all of the matter within it. Hydrogen will still be Hydrogen and Uranium will still be Uranium, but the spin of the electrons may be different, and the nucleus of the atoms may be arranged slightly different. There are infinite arrangements, thus infinite points in space.

            Now let's assume with our little hypothesis that there exists a way to modify the arrangements of all of the atoms within your vessel. The food, people, hull of the ship, and everything else within it can have its atoms modified. The ship will create a containment field around the vessel so that everything around the ship and the ship itself will be included in the atomic structure and arrangement modification.

            Now let's assume we have built a super computer that has the ability to calculate the current atomic structure of points in space, maybe even points tillions of lightyears away outside of the galaxy. The computer locks onto a point, and begins to modify the gravity and time signature of the ship by rearranging the atomic structure and arrangement of all of the atoms inside of the containment field.

            Once this happens, the multi-verse itself sees this anomaly and realizes that something has went very wrong with this particular containment field and everything within it, because it does not match its surroundings. The multi-verse itself knows the location of all of its contents and after a brief search it will find the "best place" to relocate the vessel that has the anomaly - the place the crew of this vessel wishes to go. And then the entire force of the multi-verse itself acts to move this vessel so that it matches its surroundings. You, your crew, and your ship will instantly be teleported to the location your super-computer calculated within the multi-verse. Most likely you will have broken the speed of light unless you only traveled to the moon or somewhere nearby.

            But you really haven't. In all reality you have just exploited the system of the multi-verse. You didn't travel even 1mph. You traveled 0mph and instantaneously arrived at your destination.

            There's three things you must realize that you have to master before this technology will be possible. You have to master gravity. That means within your ship you will have gravity, just like the Prometheus, the Galactica, or even the Starship Enterprise - that's one. You have to master anti-gravity. That means you can travel around the planet by controlling the gravity of your craft itself. It will be like watching a movie such as "Top Gun" when the fighter pilot is high in the atmosphere. You see the plane moving around, but you can't feel the G forces because you aren't moving at all. This is what it would be like to be in an antigravity capable craft. Looking out the windows will feel like everything else is moving around you and you're stationary - that's two. And you have to master atomic structure modification and rearrangement, which can be done by modifying the gravity on individual atoms to match distant locations or by actually modifying the atoms themselves which is far harder than simply exerting specific gravity on them - that's three.

            That's all I know about the subject, and its all hypothesis within string theory. Although, stargates could be created using this theory by linking all the gates within the galaxy together with a subspace link so that they could communicate their current gravity and time signatures to all the other gates within the galaxy. Then, when a gate dials another gate, the subspace link tells the gates to activate a portal - not a wormhole - to the other location. When a person steps through the gate what would happen would be their atomic structure and the clothing and items they carry would have their gravity to match that of the gate they were dialing. Then they would feel as though they had stepped through a stargate, minus the wormhole traveling through space thing. No demolecularization, no getting stuck in any buffers, and no problems if you connect to a world with a black hole. The "event horizon" - if there was one at all - would be purely cosmetic. In fact you could open a portal to a world without any gates at all, or even send gates to worlds without gates from a gate and assemble it when you get to the other side.

            This is all a hypothesis within a theory, take it however you will, and enjoy
            Areghherljkwehfws, I only got as far as I did trying to rebuff your theory then couldn't read any more without crying due to the record levels of assumption, falsehood, inconsistency and technobabble. Seriously, your "theory" might as well have been "Bananas make ships go faster than light" it was so bad.

            Originally posted by Ollock
            Yeah, that's a lot of assumptions. There are at least five theories whithin the world of physics that could be applied in interstellar travel, all of them founded on mathematics and extablished theories (Relativity; quantum mechanics). Yours is based upon broad and unfounded assumptions on the nature of the Universe. Very good thinking, though.
            It wasn't very good thinking at all, it was insult to good thinking.

            Now with added lesbians.

            Comment


              #7
              A thought I just had:

              I was curious: once an object gets moving, doesn't it require less fuel to keep moving in the long run? Take for example your car. To get moving faster, your car uses more gas to get the engine to run faster, thus speeding up the car. But once you get up to speed, the RPM's usually start dropping down. Or is the car still using the same amount of gas even though the RPM's are dropping? Wouldn't the same hold true for a space ship?

              Or am i just misunderstanding this stuff?

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by TechnoWraith
                A thought I just had:

                I was curious: once an object gets moving, doesn't it require less fuel to keep moving in the long run? Take for example your car. To get moving faster, your car uses more gas to get the engine to run faster, thus speeding up the car. But once you get up to speed, the RPM's usually start dropping down. Or is the car still using the same amount of gas even though the RPM's are dropping? Wouldn't the same hold true for a space ship?

                Or am i just misunderstanding this stuff?
                Maintaining speed requires less power than accelerating. To maintain speed you only have to counter resistance from the air, the road etc. To accelerate you have to counter them and more so.

                Now with added lesbians.

                Comment


                  #9
                  So i guess I'm right in my assumption, then?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by TechnoWraith
                    So i guess I'm right in my assumption, then?
                    Yes, for any given conditions, it uses less fuel to maintain speed than to accelerate.

                    Now with added lesbians.

                    Comment


                      #12
                      Originally posted by smartquin
                      mmmm.... got equations dude?
                      f=ma do ya?

                      Now with added lesbians.

                      Comment


                        #13
                        Originally posted by Three PhDs
                        f=ma do ya?
                        Na, i meant in the other universe, maybe F=ma/2, G=4pi, h is a variable etc.

                        ooh, ohh, how about E=mc^3!!! No more energy crisis!.... you say that isnt energy, but in my universe it is!!!!!!!!!! mwuhahahah


                        The Ultimate Tech thread, for more discussions on FTL, ZPE, and pie

                        Relativity Q & A - Got questions? Want answers? Me too, but i got some answers too

                        Click this link to visit the place for my ideas and experiments to hide

                        Comment


                          #14
                          Originally posted by Three PhDs
                          It wasn't very good thinking at all, it was insult to good thinking.
                          I was trying to be diplomatic. Unlike you, I do not wish to blatanly insult people while I criticize their theories. Besides, there were good ideas in there, they just weren't supported well. Most of us here have little technical knowledge and no physics degrees, thus, we make mistakes. You can nicely point out some mistakes or you can throw the whole thing away and call it rubbish, but to which approach will one listen?

                          Comment


                            #15
                            Originally posted by Ollock
                            I was trying to be diplomatic. Unlike you, I do not wish to blatanly insult people while I criticize their theories. Besides, there were good ideas in there, they just weren't supported well. Most of us here have little technical knowledge and no physics degrees, thus, we make mistakes. You can nicely point out some mistakes or you can throw the whole thing away and call it rubbish, but to which approach will one listen?
                            If there were even a hint of scientific approach, or any evidence any of the theory had been thought through I'd have been diplomatic. See Smartquin's recent thread for that. His ideas were wrong but it was clear he'd thought them through well. This theory however was just... complete and utter makebelief.

                            Now with added lesbians.

                            Comment

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