Wraith Evolution and Ancient connection(conversion spoiler)

[ckwongau]

Dr Beckette speculated that the Eratus Bug began adopted human DNA into their system and take on human characteristic like bipedal motion, opposable thumbs and large brain capacity.





But how did they get their technologies and language ?
We know the Wraith language is a version of Ancient language (s1:Gift)


Spoiler of "Conversion"
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Dr Beckette's retro virus were created to turn Wraith into human, but by accident it turn a Col Sheppard into a Wraith-like creature.

What if something similar had happen millions yr ago ?
When the Ancient Scientist studying the proto-Wraith , they tried something similar , and a member of "Ancient" got turn into a Wraithlike creature, and then he breed with the other Eratus Bug/protoWraith and teach them langage and basic science .Taht would explain the link between Wraith and Ancient language.


It would take the the early Eratus Bugman (protoWraith) a few hundred yr to discover fire, the Ancient had more than enough time to wipe them out .

But if the protoWraith started out with basic intelligence and science knowledge. Col Sheppard (infected with the retro Virus) knew how to use the Atlantis transporter and rememeber some other things.

But could Atlantis team create another race of Wraith when they interact with the Eratus Bug? i mean Col Sheppard almost turn into one of them

[Steve_the_Wraith]

Pretty plausible (an excellent explanation about how they became a threat to the ancients) but Beckett thinks that the Wraith evolved from the bugs because genetically they are closer to bugs than humans.

However the Wraith in Condemned said something like "Our lines diverged long ago" and I don't think this is something a creature who evolved from stealing characteristics would say. So I wouldn't be suprised if People turned into wraith not bugs.

Here's a tought - wraith are immortal as long as they feed and aren't injured. How about at one point some ancients (who failed to ascend) and maybe humans were researching immortality as an alternative to ascension and they incorporated bug DNA into their bodies to gain the bugs ability to live forever. Jealous of the ascended powers some ancients began experimenting on themselves and their followers in an attempt to take a short chut on the road to immortality

EDIT: Diverged not converged

[shaqarava]

But if the protoWraith started out with basic intelligence and science knowledge. Col Sheppard (infected with the retro Virus) knew how to use the Atlantis transporter and rememeber some other things.

Shepherd only knew how the transporters worked becuase he was lucid enough to remember how they worked. Without the medication his insticts take over and wouldn't have remembered a thing of his past life. But what you say is possible.

[Dr Weir]

However the Wraith in Condemned said something like "Our lines converged long ago"

I thought he said something like our lines diverged, which makes more sense. Anyway even through Beckitt said the wraith are genetically more related to the bugs, in real life it'll have to be the other away around otherwise the wraith couldn't look so human. If the ancients become part of the wraith population, thier technology would be more advanced and they could have just picked up the language from the ancients they first encountered (maybe they were nice to them at first in order to find out stuff or could use ancient databases as the ata gene activition was not there at first).

[MarshAngel]

I have a yet another theory sparked by Conversion.

What if the method the ancients use to seed is like a retrovirus, somewhat but not entirely (for one thing theirs worked) similar to Becket's. It infects whatever available compatible life forms and slowly converts them into humans. When they seeded the world with the bugs however, their ability to heal themselves prevented the bugs from being completely transformed into humans and we wound up with a half breed. On the same world the retrovirus also worked its magic and regular humans aka. wraith bait also evolved simultaneously. The wraith, being near immortal evolved fast, and their population became overwhelming and they ate most of the humans and went into hibernation.
Then the ancients stop by for a look see, they get eaten and the wraith get a sample of their technology and thus came the beginning of the end.

[Eoin]

Dr Beckette's retro virus were created to turn Wraith into human, but by accident it turn a Col Sheppard into a Wraith-like creature.

What if something similar had happen millions yr ago ?
When the Ancient Scientist studying the proto-Wraith , they tried something similar , and a member of "Ancient" got turn into a Wraithlike creature, and then he breed with the other Eratus Bug/protoWraith and teach them langage and basic science .Taht would explain the link between Wraith and Ancient language.


It would take the the early Eratus Bugman (protoWraith) a few hundred yr to discover fire, the Ancient had more than enough time to wipe them out .

But if the protoWraith started out with basic intelligence and science knowledge. Col Sheppard (infected with the retro Virus) knew how to use the Atlantis transporter and rememeber some other things.

But could Atlantis team create another race of Wraith when they interact with the Eratus Bug? i mean Col Sheppard almost turn into one of them

Here's a tought - wraith are immortal as long as they feed and aren't injured. How about at one point some ancients (who failed to ascend) and maybe humans were researching immortality as an alternative to ascension and they incorporated bug DNA into their bodies to gain the bugs ability to live forever. Jealous of the ascended powers some ancients began experimenting on themselves and their followers in an attempt to take a short chut on the road to immortality

love yer theories

[Steve_the_Wraith]

I made a mistake it is diverged - changed it just now

In relation to the question if wraith are infected ancients why don't they have better tech?, I have 3 ideas.

[1] The Ancients experimented on humans first. Once the humans became wraith they rose up, killed the ancient scientists and took what ancient tech they could understand

[2] the transformation destroys part of the memory of the ancients

[3] Some of the wraith have knowledge of ancient tech but no access to the necessary resources

[Calicto]

I think the following either happened.

1a. Ancients were messing around with retro-virus. It got loose on humans. It created the Wraith, who captured atleast 1 Ancient and "absorbed" the Ancient's knowledge. The hive mind allows all Wraith to gain this knowledge...etc

1b. See 1a: except that the first Wraith was Ancient.

[Wandering Tamer]

very plausible. Here's an idea that also helps your. The bug/Anceints fed to stay alive, the more they feed, the more Ancient/Human like they become. So, if they haven't died, then after feeding so much, the become closer and closer to humans. I mean, we don't know how long it was before the wraith came into power after they were first created.

That and we know the wraith have messed with genetic engineering at least once, maybe they have in other respects and been more successful

[Heaven]

this does not seem plausible to me.
the wraith dont even come close to the ancient's level of intelligence or technology.
i have a different theory on wraith evolution.
by now we know with relative certainty that the wraith are a sort of human-iratus bug mutation.
we also know that most if not all their technology is in large part organic
or biomechanic or whatever you wanna call it (biomechanoid i believe was the farscape term).
anyway, how did the wraith get to such great numbers and so fast that they were able to overwhelm the ancients?
i think humans were not the only ones the iratus bug has blended with
it also blended with some sort of organic ship possibly made by the ancients or maybe another once advanced race in pegasus (which would explain the language deviation) and thats where the first hive ships came from.
an iratus bug blended organic ship could possibly spawn off hundreds more hive ships, cruisers, darts, whatever and fast!!
sheppard said that during the siege on atlantis the ancient could win any battle, but they were frustrated because more ships constantly kept coming.
now you dont think the wraith had their hive ship production line going 24-7 do ya? or even enslave countless humans to build their hiveships like the gaould? they sure dont look like the laboring type to me.
they probably just breeded more ships.
they live on their ships for a reason. not cuz they like it that way but cuz thats where they came from, the hive ship is part of their evolution.

[Steve_the_Wraith]

^ Where do Wraith come from?

Well when a mummy hiveship and a daddy hiveship love eachother very much...


Seriously, cool idea - maybe down the line the original ship creator could come back

[Arative]

We know that the Ancients seeded life in the Peagsus. We know that the Ancients had some form of contact with the various worlds because everyone the team comes across recognizes Atlantis as the home of the ancestors. I think one of the reasons that the Ancients seeded life in the first place was on enrich thier culture with new ideas. Without knowing exactly how the Ancients interacted with various new cultures they created its hard to formulate theories but I believe that the Ancients were looked upon as sort of a benevolent parent figure just because we haven't seen any culture react with disdain towards the Ancients, other than the Wraith. There is also some indiciation that the Ancients shared at least some technology with the various cultures. I mean how could they not when they lived among them?

Now if the Ancients seeded the Pegasus galaxy with a device similar to that used in the Milky Way, it would have reduced each planet to the building blocks of life and let things evolve naturally over millions of years. I don't think that Ancients would teraform worlds then just plant humans there. So that means that when the Ancients were seeding life they preprogrammed at least some dna to evolve into humans. Now on the planet where the eratus bug evolved, there was probably bugs and humans evolving together, eventually bugs and humans converged into the Wraith. The Warith ate all the humans, maybe even Ancients.

In the pilot we saw from the hologram lady that the Ancients were fairly arrogant mostly because they were top of the food chain. I don't believe that when they first discovered the Wraith, which I think was well before the war started, that the Ancients considered the Wraith a threat. Maybe they thought the Wraith could add something to thier culture and as parent figures to the peagsus galaxy, the Ancients wouldn't have wanted to destroy the Wraith. They didn't realize thier mistake until it was too late. The Wraith have shown that they are intelligent and resourcful, I have no doubt that they could have scavenged and back engineered some Ancient tech but perhaps not understand everything, which would explain how advance they are. Plus if the Wraith could learn to read Ancient or had similar language its not that hard to learn thier technology, Mckay does it on a weekly basis.

[Daniel-Jackson]

Now THAT seems like a plausible explanation to me.

Real nice thinking.

[STÅRGATE: ΩMEGA]

i dont know if this has been said yet, but here it goes.

my theorey is the ancients seeded life in the peagsus galaxy bit differently then they did in the milky way. instead of using a machine to create life all the ancients did was bring humans from earth.

the wraith came about when humans were placed on a planet where the "bugs" where living. the bugs took notice of the humans and absorbed them somehow into themselves. it is possible that the bugs where already an advanced race, maybe even a dying race, and they saw the advantages of merging their dna with human dna.

just an idea.

[Dr Weir]

Lots of good ideas put forward in this thread, hopefully it'll be answered in sga, ideally in s2 but probably not. It took a while until there was a sg1 ep on the origin of goa'ulds and even then it's taken 8 and a half seasons for it to be clearer. Just some comments I want to make: some ppl have said that maybe the ancients on purpose combined iratus bug dna with that of human/ancient but the lady in the hologram said that they stambled upon a dark world, meaning they weren't aware the wraith existed before unless experiments were going on there secretly but the ancients just don't strick me as the type that would want iratus bug dna in their genomes, no matter what benefits it might bring them.

Some of the wraith have knowledge of ancient tech but no access to the necessary resources

I believe the wraith must know at least abit of ancient technology some how because in the defient one the wraith could make some adjustments to the PJ and the ancients had to made their technology be only activited by the ata gene as McKay said it was to stop wraith using their technology, so it was being used by them at one time. Why then didn't the wraith take advantage like sga did of the abondoned ancient city Atlants?!! It was underwater, but they could have sent wraith there still, unless the shield would have stopped anything going through but I think the daedalus could pass through it. Weren't they interested? They could have gotten rid of the ata gene activiton prob maybe and used the database, PJ and scientific research. They couldn't use the stargate as it was adjusted so it was only be dialled in another sga came.

Plus if the Wraith could learn to read Ancient or had similar language its not that hard to learn thier technology, Mckay does it on a weekly basis.

Makes me wonder why the wraith didn't explore Atlantis more, because amazingly without being able to read ancient, Weir can but not Mckay, he can work out so much.

As for the technology being based on ancient design somehow, some of it might be but the circuits look so diff from that of the ancients ones and the whole design of their technology is diff. I think maybe some of it might be based on ancient technology but most was not. The ancient in the hologram said they stambled upon a dark world that had technolgoy that rivaled their own, sounds like they already had very advanced technology to begin with.