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GateWorld
September 8th, 2005, 11:26 AM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s2/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/2092.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px solid black" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">GALACTICA SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s2/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">FLIGHT OF THE PHOENIX</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 209</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
The Galactica is struck with a Cylon computer virus that threatens to kill the crew, forcing Adama to go to their Cylon prisoner. Chief Tyrol throws himself into the impossible task of building a Viper from scratch.

<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s2/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
September 16th, 2005, 08:14 PM
One of the second best episodes of the season (Home, Part 2 is the best this season). Loved the new viper.

walterIsTheMan
September 16th, 2005, 08:16 PM
i thought it was great too:), i hope they build more of the new vipers, though coming up with parts could be hard. cant wait for next weeks episode:D

Bl4de
September 16th, 2005, 08:25 PM
I missed the first airing (will catch it in the next 30 minutes), but is it really the end of the season after pegasus or is it still season 2 in January?

walterIsTheMan
September 16th, 2005, 08:31 PM
I missed the first airing (will catch it in the next 30 minutes), but is it really the end of the season after pegasus or is it still season 2 in January?

no pegasus is the mid-season finale, should be back for the second half in january with sg1 and atlantis :)

Lt. Elliot
September 16th, 2005, 09:51 PM
I loved this episode. BSG is getting better with time. High notes to me:

*Roslin and Adama's talk in the middle and at the end
*Chief naming the ship "Laura"...that was awesome!
*The new ships rocks! Damn, it is fast too!
*The scene where the Vipers tore up the Raiders...awesome

I can't believe Roslin only has a couple of week to a month top. AHH! :( I really like Laura Roslin.

LoneStar1836
September 16th, 2005, 09:52 PM
I have a feeling that whole thing was a ploy in order for Sharon to gain more trust. Other possibility could have been that the Cylons were going to board Galactica and take Sharon by force and then destroy Galactica, but I still don’t think that was the plan. I think the Cylons want her aboard Galactica for a reason.

Sharon. Fiber optic cable. Hand. :eek: Any ideas how she transmits a command by doing that.

Okay I just really had to suspend my disbelief about the Chief building a Viper from scratch in what two, three weeks tops and only working when off-duty. I’m not saying he couldn’t build one from scratch, I just find that time period a little impossible. Heck it might have been even less than that. I know others were helping but he had to be there to supervise, and he’s still got a day job.

And Helo coming up with the idea to use that material for the skin. Okay I know they were looking for a way to ender him to the crew, but that?

Explosive rounds in the shooting range? Didn’t think we wanted to waste those. Never mind how close Kara and Lee were to the door that got blown of its hinges….

Okay. I guess they aren’t as low on Vipers as I thought they were. When they were facing off with the Cylons, I counted at least 39 Vipers, maybe give or take a few.

I wonder if Adama has an inkling about what is going on with Roslin. I know everybody knows she is dying but as far as they know that’s a couple of months away.

Good episode nonetheless. Didn’t really advance any plot (other than dealing with the Cylon virus from “Scattered”), but as usual some nice character moments. All the scenes with Roslin were great. I was thinking to myself that there was no way these people were going to waste a bottle of champagne on a ship, and then Roslin fakes them out. LOL! Probably about giving Tigh a heart attack. :D

Carbito
September 16th, 2005, 10:44 PM
That was a great episode! For some reason based upon the description I was not expecting much from this episode, I was pleasently suprised.

alaskannut
September 16th, 2005, 10:56 PM
Wow...just....wow

That was a true experience

mikeforrest2003
September 16th, 2005, 11:20 PM
Good episode.

It seemed to me that Adama suspected the truth about Roslin not having much longer but was afraid to say something.

As far as how long it took to build the new ship it's not as far fetched as one might think. There is a show called Junkyard Wars on the "Science Channel" and one episode had teams building airplanes for the Anniversary of the Wright Brother's Flight.

They had 20 hours to build them using only tools and parts available at the turn of the Century. The parts all had to be found in the junkyard. All three actually got into the air and flew short distances.

The Chief on the show was doing basically the same thing using existing parts and technology. And as an engineer he might have had ideas for years on how to build a better Viper and finally had his chance. (notice it didn't actually show him drawing up those blue prints!)

And yes I wondered where all those Vipers came from too. My understanding was that there were only a dozen still flyable with a bunch out of commission.

Another thing since the Pegasus appears in the next episode I wonder if Admiral Cain picks up the Cylon transmissions and is coming to investigate or will they meet some other way?

LoneStar1836
September 16th, 2005, 11:52 PM
That just seemed like an awful lot of fabrication that was being done for such a complex machine. All the cutting and welding and grinding of the frame alone has to be time consuming. Tyrol had an awful lot of the frame constructed before anyone finally decided to help him. That seemed like a lot of work for one man to have done in any short period of time. Then later with all the cutting and fitting of the carbon fiber skin. The wiring was probably the easiest part of the whole project.

But then what do I know since I’ve never done anything like that before. Closest I’ve ever come is watching those automotive shows where the guys build/remodel a vehicle from the ground up. And that’s usually with pre-fabbed pieces. :D

Carbito
September 17th, 2005, 04:10 AM
When they launched the new fighter did Starbuck lose control of it or was she intending to fly like that?

Easter Lily
September 17th, 2005, 04:21 AM
That wasn't too bad an episode... I'm really liking Chief a lot more as the storyline progresses. He's a man who has lost everything but that which is innately his. I have a lot of sympathy for him. Great to see his project become such a symbol of hope for all the crew.
Helo, on the other hand,... not so much... :p I'm not sure where they're going with him, quite frankly. On Caprica, he was this resourceful, thoughtful soldier and now, he's turning into a namby pamby...

BSG's strength really lies with its characterization and this is one episode which really proves it in that the parts are better than the whole. As a whole, the story feels derivative but the little moments between people is what makes it better than the overall story.

I have a feeling that whole thing was a ploy in order for Sharon to gain more trust. Other possibility could have been that the Cylons were going to board Galactica and take Sharon by force and then destroy Galactica, but I still don’t think that was the plan. I think the Cylons want her aboard Galactica for a reason.

I share similar suspicions... Poor SharonCylon... she is going to have to work hard to prove where her loyalties really lie. But perhaps she isn't ultimately the problem and that she's just as much a pawn in the cylon scheme of things.

But the best moments in this episodes are undoubtedly between Adama and Roslin. One can't help but feel that they communicate on so many different levels and that in another time and place they would've been more than colleagues. Each seems to be able to match the other's intensity and both carry an inner strength that drives them to survive. They are both survivors and that's why they are a great team, when they're not doing things behind one another's back.

busuan
September 17th, 2005, 07:44 AM
It lasts about 2 seconds: another Sharon in Marine gear. And the camera focus is on her, not the prisoner Sharon in background.
I wonder how could she hide for so long since most people should have recognized her by now.
Or it's because I am so into Grace? :)

Carbito
September 17th, 2005, 08:16 AM
It lasts about 2 seconds: another Sharon in Marine gear. And the camera focus is on her, not the prisoner Sharon in background.
I wonder how could she hide for so long since most people should have recognized her by now.
Or it's because I am so into Grace? :)

How far into the episode did you see this?

jmallx
September 17th, 2005, 09:30 AM
I have a feeling that whole thing was a ploy in order for Sharon to gain more trust. Other possibility could have been that the Cylons were going to board Galactica and take Sharon by force and then destroy Galactica, but I still don’t think that was the plan. I think the Cylons want her aboard Galactica for a reason.

Sharon. Fiber optic cable. Hand. :eek: Any ideas how she transmits a command by doing that.

Okay I just really had to suspend my disbelief about the Chief building a Viper from scratch in what two, three weeks tops and only working when off-duty. I’m not saying he couldn’t build one from scratch, I just find that time period a little impossible. Heck it might have been even less than that. I know others were helping but he had to be there to supervise, and he’s still got a day job.

And Helo coming up with the idea to use that material for the skin. Okay I know they were looking for a way to ender him to the crew, but that?

Explosive rounds in the shooting range? Didn’t think we wanted to waste those. Never mind how close Kara and Lee were to the door that got blown of its hinges….

Okay. I guess they aren’t as low on Vipers as I thought they were. When they were facing off with the Cylons, I counted at least 39 Vipers, maybe give or take a few.

I wonder if Adama has an inkling about what is going on with Roslin. I know everybody knows she is dying but as far as they know that’s a couple of months away.

Good episode nonetheless. Didn’t really advance any plot (other than dealing with the Cylon virus from “Scattered”), but as usual some nice character moments. All the scenes with Roslin were great. I was thinking to myself that there was no way these people were going to waste a bottle of champagne on a ship, and then Roslin fakes them out. LOL! Probably about giving Tigh a heart attack. :D


I'd have to go with the Cyclons doing a boarding and breaking her out. There were quite a few boarding ships in the fleet they sent. Also, she's the only one with a successful pregnancy. The cyclons have a MASSIVE fleet and can afford the combat losses necessary to break her out. Whereas Galactica can't even resupply (not until they get to the clone planet).

Sharon would have to have some kind of laser in her arm, probably in her nervous system. Don't forget the mini-series when Six's spine glowed when she and Baltar were having sex. The interesting part is how the Humanoid Cylons can still pass for human during a body scan but be able to directly interface with a fiber optic cable.

Chief didn't build a viper from scratch in 3 weeks, Chief Tyro started the project and everyone pitched in with their specialty. A lot of the larger parts were pre-fabbed. Engines were taken as scrap, joystick probably from a scrapped Viper, etc...

Did the door get blown off its hinges or just swing open quickly? I don't have an Xvid of it. I know Lee couldn't open it because of the pressure difference.

There were also several newer Vipers in the mix. Guess they finally made them virus proof or loaded the 20 yr old Viper code onto them.

I can't believe Sharon didn't cut a better deal for herself. Like a TV set or human contact visits.

Another thing, if I was Adama I would of asked Sharon how long the Virus would last for. The Cylon boarding ships would have to be destroyed since they would have Centurions on them, but the raiders could be used. If not as an entire ship like Starbuck used it then they could use them for parts and learn more about the Cylons and potential weaknesses.

I don't get why everyone doesn't like Helo. Let's be real here. Everyone loved Sharon until she put 2 rounds in the Commander. Helo was stuck ALONE on Caprica for months with what he thought was a human but was actually a Cylon that saved his life repeatedly. And what's more, she is pregnant. Men protect their children, it's genetically programmed into us else the human species would be defunct (and possible wiped out) in a few generations. Also, its not like Helo is a newcomer to the Galactica. He did serve on it before he stranded himself on Caprica.

Now I wonder, will Doctor Baltar go over to the cylon warship side and start pursuing the Fleet?

Thermonuclearboy
September 17th, 2005, 11:18 AM
One thing I don't get is why they haven't done an autopsy on the dead Boomer model they have in the morgue (or if they have, they haven't mentioned it in the episodes yet). They could learn a wealth of biological knowledge from that.

As to the sudden hatred everyone has for Sharon and Helo, I'm of the opinion that it harks back to Colonial society. The little glimpses we get now and then of what life was life before the Cylon attack seems to imply that the Colonies didn't have the same sense of basic human rights and due process that we have. Everyone is so quick to fight amongst themselves and resort to violence. And while I'm willing to admit that a large chunk of that has to do with the stress of being on the run, violence and in-fighting seem to be ingrained within Colonial culture. I'm beginning to wonder if the Cylons may have had the right idea.

In other news, seeing Gaeta finally lose his cool was a bit unsettling. The rock, the iceman of the fleet reaches the end of his rope at last. And why oh why are they apparently setting up a Dualla-Billy-Apollo love triangle? Please don't, guys...

jmallx
September 17th, 2005, 11:24 AM
One thing I don't get is why they haven't done an autopsy on the dead Boomer model they have in the morgue (or if they have, they haven't mentioned it in the episodes yet). They could learn a wealth of biological knowledge from that.

Don't forget they already autopsied the Cylon that was on Ragnarok station. The one from the mini-series. I forget the name.

Also, was it me or did they make her (Boomer #2) out to be Hannibal Lecter?

Kaija
September 17th, 2005, 11:40 AM
How far into the episode did you see this?

I'm sorry I can't get a screen cap, but it's just as the marines are leading Sharon into the CIC, the camera focuses in on a marine as Sharon is being lead by in the background. I downloaded the episode off of Bittorrent, and by that clock, it's about 28 minutes into the episode.

Looking closely at the image, there is a resemblance to Grace Park. Unless this cylon is hiding herself very well, I highly doubt she would be able to stay on Galacitca for long. She did shoot the commander, after all.

Cathara
September 17th, 2005, 01:27 PM
Another great episode! I'm not sure how I'm gonna handle the season break! :(

Some things I noticed...

We don't see Six appear the entire episode and Baltar seems rather jumpy (even for him) when he and Felix Gaeta are explaining the possible ramifications of the Cylon virus.

Also, did anyone notice Gaeta rolling his eyes at Baltar a couple of times during that scene? It was when Baltar was interupting, wonder if Gaeta's former admiration for the good doctor is starting to wear thin?

They are definitely setting up some sort of attraction between Dee and Apollo. One of the funniest parts of the ep to me was when Apollo was chatting with Starbuck next to the under-construction viper and Dee slides out from beneath. Apollo's reaction, his tone of voice really, just screamed "Ummm, this is awkward."

Maybe Billy really is a Cylon as others have proposed. Then Apollo could end up with Dee and Starbuck could be re-united with cute boyfriend still back on Caprica? Just a thought...

Another thought - if Laura Roslin is really going to succomb to cancer in a few short weeks (although I'm praying for a miracle) won't that leave Baltar as the President by default? That can't be a good thing for the fleet!

By far my favorite scene was when they christened the new viper. When I saw the name, I teared up - yes I'm a big sap, but there it is. It was just such a great moment. You could see how much it meant to Roslin.

Easter Lily
September 17th, 2005, 02:07 PM
As to the sudden hatred everyone has for Sharon and Helo, I'm of the opinion that it harks back to Colonial society. The little glimpses we get now and then of what life was life before the Cylon attack seems to imply that the Colonies didn't have the same sense of basic human rights and due process that we have. Everyone is so quick to fight amongst themselves and resort to violence. And while I'm willing to admit that a large chunk of that has to do with the stress of being on the run, violence and in-fighting seem to be ingrained within Colonial culture. I'm beginning to wonder if the Cylons may have had the right idea.
My observation of Colonial culture is that it is pretty much in line with our civilization or somewhat more advanced in certain areas such as technology. Perhaps the thing to remember here is that the fleet is desperately trying to survive. They are, without exaggeration, living on a wing and prayer. Their entire civilization as they knew it was wiped out by the cylons, so their animosity is entirely understandable. It's not just rhetoric when Six says that it is like humans to turn on one another in times of trouble (note War of the Worlds) but it doesn't mean the cylons are justified in their genocidal aims. It would be abnormal, in my opinion, if everyone embraced Helo and Sharon's relationship without question. From their perspective, it is akin to sleeping with the enemy... a traitorous act. One of the things I really appreciate about BSG is its underlying assumption that human history repeats itself because fundamentally human nature remains intact. They certainly don't shy from demonstrating the best and the worst in humanity in this show. It's good to see a balance of both in this episode... crew members turning against each other and also working together on the project. I believe that it was also necessary to see Chief lash out at Helo eventually... He had such a strong history with Sharon and for him to just let it go without some kind of fallout would've been unrealistic.


In other news, seeing Gaeta finally lose his cool was a bit unsettling. The rock, the iceman of the fleet reaches the end of his rope at last. And why oh why are they apparently setting up a Dualla-Billy-Apollo love triangle?
Please don't, guys...
As for Gaeta losing his cool... that was very striking and rather symptomatic of the overall feeling of hopelessness. It was very unsettling...

I'm not sure where they're going with this Dee/Lee thing... :S It rather annoys me that everytime a man spars with a woman or instructs her in some physical activity... it seems to be a prelude to UST or a fling. It's getting a bit cliched... methinks... :rolleyes:

shultzie
September 17th, 2005, 02:57 PM
Two words bothering me....Carbon Composite. It seemed too easy. My first thought when they brought up the metal shortage for the skin was that there was a whole field of destroyed Cylon ships (assuming they hadn't jumped). Seemed like a likely source of scrap. RDM has a plotline calling for a stealth ship (did they call it the Blackbird?) in the future.

I believe Adama did force Sharon into making a choice. It seems she was trying to eliminate the virus to give Galactica a chance to jump, but forced the virus on the Cylons only after Adama threatened her life. IMHO - she is still on the fence or battling with her programming.

One more episode and then 3 months - ARRGH!

Vorlon-1
September 17th, 2005, 03:27 PM
Better than the previews led me to believe it would be...nice suprise there. Where did all those Vipers come from :eek: It seemed they had alot less when they attacked the fuel depot. Maybe they did finally get the newer models updated and on line. Sharon will never be fully trusted and she knows this. Adama still referred to her as a thing and you could see some sort of tension as they listened to the vipers tear up the defenseless raiders. Awsome scene btw. The new ship is cool. Kinda a tribute to the unarmed viper from the original series that the O starbuck flew...fast. Not sure if it was unarmed though. The chief and crew showed so much concern for her when she was out of range but I knew she'd be ok :D Best acting since 33 imho

33 was, is and probably will remain as my favorite episode but Damn I'm looking forward to next week :D

anotherquestion
September 17th, 2005, 04:06 PM
Doesn't it bother anyone else to see that Sharon was totally immune to the coding in the Cylon "logic bomb"? Isn't that precisely the sort of thing that would be used to activate a "sleeper" Cylon agent, for example? To be able to withstand the power of a hueristic, evolving agent and turn it back upon it's creators is a stretch of capabilities that further set Sharon apart from her Cylon brethren.

The scene where she first inspected the code as Helo disclosed it she was physically "taken aback". You could say it was the shock of realization of the implications of the virus (e.g. the actual attack of the fleet), but, at least to me, it seemed to reset some of her own internal calibrations. If Sharon could withstand the power of the logic bomb after it has had time to mature and "harden" itself, there may be some hope for her to genuinely overcome whatever latent "sleeper code" that resides within her. On the other hand, the code was perhaps "vaccinated" by adapting to the Colonial mainframe environment, just as we vaccinate ourselves from Smallpox by using a mutated variety of a closely related virus. Now that the logic bomb has been inculcated into Sharons conciousness, it may evolve hueristically within her inner ecosystem eventually becoming an overwhelming illness. There are a lot of ways the writers can take us with this.

Her decision to aid the fleet might have argued for more charitable treatment, perhaps, in the best of all possible worlds, leading to less restrictions on her freedom and eventual acceptance. On the other hand, her assistance was provided entirely by the things that set her apart to begin with, her cybernetic core. Adama was very prudent to not be carried away by sentimentality in this instance (although sentimentality and trust has had a very positive and healing influence on those in his care in the last few episodes).

Adama appears to rely on Laura's advice more. The two of them together comprise the leadership needed to guide the fleet, neither one has prospered very well going it alone. Laura's imminent demise constitutes the greatest near term danger to the fleet.

jmallx
September 17th, 2005, 04:36 PM
I'm not sure where they're going with this Dee/Lee thing... :S It rather annoys me that everytime a man spars with a woman or instructs her in some physical activity... it seems to be a prelude to UST or a fling. It's getting a bit cliched... methinks... :rolleyes:


What does UST stand for?

Also, its not just that Apollo was showing Dee a hip toss, its the way she breathed and looked up at him.

mikeforrest2003
September 17th, 2005, 05:41 PM
Given that she was the first person to fly the thing I'd say most of it was real.

It was only at the end that she started playing games with Apollo and it was obvious that she had gained control.

Easter Lily
September 17th, 2005, 05:45 PM
What does UST stand for?
Underlying sexual tension...


Also, its not just that Apollo was showing Dee a hip toss, its the way she breathed and looked up at him.

Well, yeah... :rolleyes: She was standing next to him... she has to breathe on him... especially after exerting herself.
(Not taking it out on you, jmallx... but I'm just a touch annoyed with the writers for a lack of originality here. It's the whole tennis coach/ski instructor scenario again...)

Zues
September 17th, 2005, 07:10 PM
It was a great episode, however like some had posted there were a lot of vipers. About the "blackbird" I think that is going to be used a lot for doing recon since it has a carbon alloy based skin they said it was difficult for Dradis (radar) to spot it. So for 210 I think Starbuck or someone will be flying it out and scouting around and some how stumble upon the pegasus and then report back to the fleet that she has found another battlestar, and it goes from there! Well thats my theory 6 days And Ill see if its true =).

anotherquestion
September 17th, 2005, 08:48 PM
Why did we see all the "cut scenes" showing the invading Cylon fleet? Sure it was great for building tension and a growing sense of menance, but, in the end, all the ships simply "jumped" immediately to BSG's vicinity. All the "jumps" we've seen in the past were instantaneous, there was no "whooshing" around of small groups of ships. One explanation might be that we were seeing small patrols being recalled. The fleet formation might have been gathered from many scattered locations then simultaneously jumped to the same destination.

Wasn't it a big waste of resources for Adama to approve the destruction of the Cylon fleet instead of appropriating the hardware to turn into much-needed Colonial military assets? The raiders could have been de-brained or, possibly, re-conditioned. The assault vessels would make great long-range scouts, infiltration vehicles, or simply better replacement shuttles. All the vessels could have been boarded safely. It seemed "inhumane" to sanction such a one-sided slaughter (I think it is significant that Tigh gave the order and not Adama).

On the contrary, if you believe in payback morality during wartime, shouldn't Adama take the fight to the enemy now that he has the anti-Cylon virus? Shouldn't he compel Sharon to disclose the code she relayed back to the Cylons so that the Colonial propeller-heads could base a future defense against Cylon attacks, or enhance it to be used as an offensive weapon? Why not scrap the search for Earth and find the coordinates of the Cylon home-world, disable its defenses, as the Cylons did on Caprica, and strike at the "heart of the beast"? At the very least Adama should take the fleet back to Kobol so the Colonials can take some relatively safe R&R planetside there. BSG can safely use the virus to ward off any Cylon attacks as humanity regroups and repopulates.

mikeforrest2003
September 17th, 2005, 09:30 PM
You've got to remember that they are on the run. There was always a chance that more Cylon ships were on the way.

And who knows how long it would have taken for the Cylons to adapt their programming.

By the way how do we know they didn't take some stuff on board.

Another thing about blowing away all those Cylons. If they had left some alive they would have been reactivated. In addition they had no way of knowing for sure that the Cylons weren't trying to trick the Colonials!

In war you don't leave armed enemies alive to fight another day PERIOD! No matter what condition they are in when you kill them! If they still have weapons they are fair game.

coolove
September 17th, 2005, 09:52 PM
I'm not sure where they're going with this Dee/Lee thing... :S It rather annoys me that everytime a man spars with a woman or instructs her in some physical activity... it seems to be a prelude to UST or a fling.

I thought it was odd the way Lee acted around Dee in training and when she was helping with the blackbird. He seemed almost nervous around her? It completely came out of nowhere. I can see the writers heading into this direction. For me it's a refresher because I'm getting tired of the whole Lee/Kara will they or won't they plot. So I'm just counting the episodes until this will they or won't they bothers me aswell. :p

So how much time actually passed during this episode? They made it seem the bird was built in a matter of hours.

anotherquestion
September 17th, 2005, 09:57 PM
You've got to remember that they are on the run. There was always a chance that more Cylon ships were on the way.


My point was, why is the fleet now "on the run". They have the ultimate weapon of mass destruction in the form of the Cylon anti-virus. The Cylons they destroyed couldn't have relayed the presence of the anti-virus to the rest of the Cylon population, since their systems were disrupted.

Adama is now in the position to legitimately challenge the Cylons ("bring it on").



And who knows how long it would have taken for the Cylons to adapt their programming.


Exactly, who knows? Adama was perfectly positioned to find out, having destroyed the fleet sent against him and scrubbed the virus from his own systems. Now is the best time ever to take a stand (so long as the emergency jump coordinates are relayed to the rest of the fleet on the slim chance that the next wave of Cylons can devise a countermeasure).

Easter Lily
September 17th, 2005, 10:41 PM
I thought it was odd the way Lee acted around Dee in training and when she was helping with the blackbird. He seemed almost nervous around her? It completely came out of nowhere. I can see the writers heading into this direction. For me it's a refresher because I'm getting tired of the whole Lee/Kara will they or won't they plot. So I'm just counting the episodes until this will they or won't they bothers me aswell. :p

That is my point exactly... ;) It did come out of nowhere...
It was cliched at every level...

While I agree to some extent that the will they/won't they scenario can try one's patience... it is at least building towards something... But the Lee/Dee thing is trying to force something to happen... well, to me anyway... :p

LoneStar1836
September 18th, 2005, 12:36 AM
Chief didn't build a viper from scratch in 3 weeks, Chief Tyro started the project and everyone pitched in with their specialty. A lot of the larger parts were pre-fabbed. Engines were taken as scrap, joystick probably from a scrapped Viper, etc...I know they didn’t have to fabricate every little part of the ship :P:), but the frame did have to be built from the ground up. Measured, cut to length, welded together, etc. They couldn’t cannibalize pieces from other Vipers so they had to first find all this metal and junk out in the fleet. The Chief slapping much of the frame together in that short amount of time with help from no one else gives me cause to have to suspend my disbelief. He’s the Chief. Isn’t he supposed to be spending most of his time "being the Chief." I can’t imagine his job only requires him to work an 8-hour shift. I’m guessing whatever engines they used (if they were the ones Tigh told the Chief he could have) had to be torn down, rebuilt, and tuned and then fitted and mounted. I know others can do that, but it's still time consuming.

I mean if they can practically build a new fighter from scratch and get junk engines to work in such a short amount of time, then they should have no problem keeping the rest of the Vipers in working order if they are that good.

But like I said, that’s just a nitpick where I personally had to suspend my disbelief and just accept it. :D I just wish they would have given us a better indication of how much time had passed throughout this whole episode. Like how much time was it between discovering the virus and the appearance of the Raiders, etc.?

Did the door get blown off its hinges or just swing open quickly? I don't have an Xvid of it. I know Lee couldn't open it because of the pressure difference. Yeah, the door was just blown back upon a second viewing, but still that must have been a heck of a blast to blow out the window and kick the door out considering the compartment they were in was being depressurized. I’m just saying I wouldn’t want to have been as close as it appeared those two were. :D

There were also several newer Vipers in the mix. Guess they finally made them virus proof or loaded the 20 yr old Viper code onto them.I’m pretty sure they already had figured out how to Cylon proof them last season. I just couldn’t believe they still had that many working Vipers all together.

Rewatching “Final Cut” it seems that civilians have balked at volunteering to train as pilots after events of the military coup. Lee makes a comment alluding to it when he’s talking to Kara and tells her she better get used to the 15 hr rotations because they are going to be short on pilots.

Helo, on the other hand,... not so much... :P I'm not sure where they're going with him, quite frankly. On Caprica, he was this resourceful, thoughtful soldier and now, he's turning into a namby pamby...But he’s so darn good lookin’……. :P Poor character really doesn’t have that much to do now. I liked the Caprica storyline last season, but now he’s just kind of reduced to that guy that fraked a Cylon that people really don’t trust, and even after this episode I’m sure people will still snicker about him. At least he and the Chief worked out their issues.

I share similar suspicions... Poor SharonCylon... she is going to have to work hard to prove where her loyalties really lie. But perhaps she isn't ultimately the problem and that she's just as much a pawn in the cylon scheme of things.Yeah, she may not be privy to whatever plans they now have for her. Sharon looked rather disturbed when she was reading the computer printouts that Helo was holding, imo. Like she couldn’t believe this was happening…that the other Cylons now possibly find her expendable. I know the whole virus came into play before she arrived on Galactica so that part was going to play out anyway, but I think after learning she was alive, Six and co. altered the plan and decided to sacrifice the Raiders.

Makes it hard to tell whose side she is really on. I want to trust her, but then can you really, even if the others are using her as a pawn in the game. The Colonials gleefully massacring a bunch of Raiders while she listens on can’t really help to ender them to her.

I'm not sure where they're going with this Dee/Lee thing... :S It rather annoys me that everytime a man spars with a woman or instructs her in some physical activity... it seems to be a prelude to UST or a fling. It's getting a bit cliched... methinks... :rolleyes:Ya think. :P That’s the only reason that scene was even put in the episode, imo. I’m not exactly sure I like what they are trying to imply or with what story they may try to run with. Though to me it looks like they are coming at it from Lee’s angle. I’m not too sure Dee is all that interested.

I don't think it's coming completely out of left field. They did work closely together in "Redemption" to break Roslin out of the brig. That could be an excuse....

Some undetermined future episode story plot that will take place according to KS I read that KS lobbied to get Anders written back into the show and the producers agreed. Link (http://www.greatlink.org/dcisV2.asp?url=http://www.greatlink.org/shownewsitem.asp?item=4818)

That could be the reason they are trying to pawn Lee off on Dee. Not that I have anything against Dee. Hers and Lee’s personalities are probably more compatible anyway.

Wasn't it a big waste of resources for Adama to approve the destruction of the Cylon fleet instead of appropriating the hardware to turn into much-needed Colonial military assets? The raiders could have been de-brained or, possibly, re-conditioned. The assault vessels would make great long-range scouts, infiltration vehicles, or simply better replacement shuttles. All the vessels could have been boarded safely. It seemed "inhumane" to sanction such a one-sided slaughter (I think it is significant that Tigh gave the order and not Adama).No more than it was for the Cylons to slaughter all those helpless Vipers in the mini. It was payback. If they weren't going to salvage them all (and there is no way they possibly could), there was no need to leave them intact so they could be retrieved by a BaseStar.

Yeah that was a waste of resources by using the ships as target practice, but to avoid having them as easy solutions for future episodes, I‘m glad the writers wrote them off, even though practically, it makes absolutely no sense to not have salvaged some, but then again maybe they did. Guess we'll know if it's referenced in the future.

Bl4de
September 18th, 2005, 07:52 PM
I liked everything about the episode, I'm definately not going to jump to any conclusions as to whether or not Sharon is good or bad based off that episode, but I'm believing firmly that the name Boomer has to stay in the show just as much as Starbuck, they can't just make her evil and kill her off eventually for good and make her a complete enemy. The show is working her up to be reaccepted into the crew at some point and things will get back to normal, just like they did after the fleet division.

I think a lot of fans are getting tired of having Sharon being berrated as if she's nothing, when a lot of the drama stemming from the show is largely about the fact that Cylons are not just robots anymore and they have feelings and emotions just like humans, and they deserve the right to live (which I believe is what the baby is going to do, I think the human cylon baby will make everyone realize there is a new form of life and it needs to be respected). I don't think the show anymore is just about humans killing robots, it's gotten much more complex and probably can't end any other way other than some kind of peace forming between the two species.

Anyways I'm hoping that people will recognize Sharon's right to life. She's a valuable asset to the crew and the constant hatred toward her and Helo is getting annoying. Helo needs to just shoot the next person that looks at him funny. The crew and humans in general are being ignorant about the recognition of a new life. She's no more machine than anyone else, but obviously she's something more evolved than a human. It's that reason there was a war in the first place. The cylons were tired of being slaves to humans, being nothing. Humans brought their own fate upon them.

Redwall
September 18th, 2005, 09:04 PM
And yes I wondered where all those Vipers came from too. My understanding was that there were only a dozen still flyable with a bunch out of commission.

According to Battlestar (http://www.battlestarwiki.org) Wiki's count, there were ~40 Vipers shown in the shot, while based on previous episodes there is only ~30 Vipers remaining and ~20 Pilots with which to fly them.

Also, did any notice Helo's Viper patch? :confused:

LoneStar1836
September 18th, 2005, 10:03 PM
I agree that the writers can’t do away with Boomer. I think as long as the show goes on, she will most likely be a part of it somehow or another. I doubt they will let her out of that cage anytime soon and have freedom of movement though, but then the character can’t just stay in there forever. It will be interesting what they eventually decide to do, I hope, but I don’t see the vast majority of the crew ever being that welcoming of her. At least not enough for her to assimilate back into her role as “Boomer” as though nothing had happened. I seriously doubt Adama will ever let that happen.


I think a lot of fans are getting tired of having Sharon being berrated as if she's nothing, when a lot of the drama stemming from the show is largely about the fact that Cylons are not just robots anymore and they have feelings and emotions just like humans, and they deserve the right to live (which I believe is what the baby is going to do, I think the human cylon baby will make everyone realize there is a new form of life and it needs to be respected).I’m not. The humans are just as entitled to their emotions. As third person observers to the story, we the viewers get the more overall picture, but the humans in the fleet haven’t seen everything we have. So just because I do think Sharon is more than just a machine, I don’t expect all the Colonials who just had their families as well as their entire past existence practically erased by these “things” to feel the same. I’d actually find it very bizarre if they just all started welcoming her with open arms and treating her like she was human.

I can see how the way that Helo accepts Sharon is justified. He spent over two months isolated on Caprica with her, and she earned his trust, but his initial reaction to her being a Cylon was the same as people’s on Galactica. It will probably only be the people that were closest to Galactica Boomer that will ever accept Caprica Boomer. I don’t expect 99% of the crew to ever change their opinion of her. And for a good reason.



It's that reason there was a war in the first place. The cylons were tired of being slaves to humans, being nothing. Humans brought their own fate upon them.But then they agreed to an armistice and then out of the blue 40 years later the Cylons decide to practically exterminate the humans without provocation.

I wouldn’t exactly be feeling the love for them no matter how human they appear.

entil2001
September 19th, 2005, 06:40 AM
After so many episodes with a podcast from Ron Moore, I’m sorry to see this episode not get one. I think it would have been interesting to hear Ron’s comments on the truth behind the events; certainly, it seems as though a few very important things happened, both obvious and subtle. In particular, the motivations of the Cylons are becoming more and more suggestive of herding and masterful manipulation.

This question has been bugging me ever since the series premiere, and certainly ever since Boomer became the center of the Cylon/Human question. Looking back, there are several points at which Boomer had the opportunity to “save” the humans, on Caprica and otherwise, and she did so with remarkable efficiency and apparent personal risk. But how much of that risk is genuine?

In this episode, for instance, the entire plot seems designed to allow Boomer to gain some degree of trust among influential humans. The Cylons need her to be kept alive and well, after all, to ensure that their most successful breeding experiment remains viable. In keeping with the first season, it’s entirely possible that Boomer is truly in love with Helo and even Tyrol; that doesn’t mean that she’s not playing humanity in the process.

If that’s not the case, then the Cylons are making some rather convenient decisions. And that kind of contrivance is usually not evident on “Galactica”. A lot of effort goes into long-term cohesion. Hence the morale low after the apparent high of the broadcast in the previous episode; the crew psychology is following a clear and consistent pattern. So should the logic of the Cylon gambit.

From where I’m sitting, it certain seems that the humans in the Colonial Fleet are being purposefully herded and kept at a level of stress and anxiety that keeps them from considering the big picture. Lately the Cylons haven’t been attacking: why would that be the case? Because the fleet was busy distracting itself. The Cylons kept just enough pressure on to keep the ruse going, but they never delivered the killing blow that they are clearly capable of implementing.

The way I see it, the Cylons could have wiped out the fleet at any time. They haven’t, and therefore, there must be a reason. It’s still unclear what that rationale might be, and thus, it is difficult to imagine how the hapless humans without a clue can hope to win. I get the feeling that this is going to be another “Babylon 5” scenario: the conflict and warfare will ultimately set the stage for a philosophical transformation, with victory as a convenient late-minute side effect.

The crew might think that using Boomer to plant a virus in the Cylon network is the prize in this episode, but since that looks like a complete ruse, that’s not the case. The real prize is the Blackbird. Not the single fighter itself, though that’s likely to be meaningful in the long run, but rather what it represents: the ability of the personnel to build new fighters. This is something that the fleet needs to recognize: long-term survival means more than maintenance. Training pilots is one thing, but equally important, they should be training artisans and engineers to make the components for new equipment.

All that, and I’ve only scratched the surface. Tyrol’s personal low point was hard to watch, as was his fight with Helo. (Though clearly, Grace Park is someone to fight over.) Dee’s growing attraction to Apollo, which threatens to create an Excruciating Polygon of Lust within the crew. And there’s the news that Roslyn is on even less borrowed time than expected. Like I said…the Cylons don’t need to do much, since the humans are more than capable of undermining their strengths while under so much pressure.

But this is another example of where I disagree with the notion that this series is massively divergent from the “Up With Humans” message of the Trek franchise. Some Trek fans bash this series for its darkness and the deep flaws of its human characters. But this series highlights something that the recent Trek installments couldn’t truly communicate: when push comes to shove, despite its flaws, humanity will rise above.

FeloniousMonk
September 19th, 2005, 09:00 AM
Some Trek fans bash this series for its darkness and the deep flaws of its human characters.
ha

I feel sorry for any Star Trek fan, or fan of any genre, especially science fiction, that bashes this or any show for being too dark and for its' characters having flaws. People who demand nothing but utopia in their fiction are likely to have those same ridiculous fantasies about the real world.

Bl4de
September 19th, 2005, 10:20 AM
Lol yeah, heck Star Trek doesn't even have currency.

I wouldn't exactly say I love the cylons lol, the show deals with a lot of things but one of them is trying to find the reason as to why the cylons are now doing all of this, using the humans in experiments and hearding the fleet and destroying them while saving them etc. lots of double standards and confusion on the cylons part. But in the first place you have to sympathize with the fact that they rebelled because they didn't have any freedoms and weren't treated as entities with thinking capabilities (any species that can start war and have a chance at winning is intelligent enough to be considered a thinking being imo), so they rebelled.. much like humans have done all throughout history to enslavers.

As to their plans now.. I guess their plan is to wipe humanity from existence as Six has said multiple times.. but until that point, they have some use for the humans. Perhaps it's just as simple as creating more human cylons and finding new hospitable worlds (Earth).

VirtualCLD
September 19th, 2005, 11:07 AM
I know they didn’t have to fabricate every little part of the ship :P:), but the frame did have to be built from the ground up. Measured, cut to length, welded together, etc. They couldn’t cannibalize pieces from other Vipers so they had to first find all this metal and junk out in the fleet. The Chief slapping much of the frame together in that short amount of time with help from no one else gives me cause to have to suspend my disbelief. He’s the Chief. Isn’t he supposed to be spending most of his time "being the Chief." I can’t imagine his job only requires him to work an 8-hour shift. I’m guessing whatever engines they used (if they were the ones Tigh told the Chief he could have) had to be torn down, rebuilt, and tuned and then fitted and mounted. I know others can do that, but it's still time consuming.

I mean if they can practically build a new fighter from scratch and get junk engines to work in such a short amount of time, then they should have no problem keeping the rest of the Vipers in working order if they are that good.


The frame should have been the easiest thing to do. Most people I know who are good in welding and metal working could slap together something like that in one weekend (if they had the tools, supplies,money, etc...). Now seeing as how he had design it from scratch and build it in is spare time, I'd give him about a week, maybe more or less, assuming he's very knowledgeable (he IS the chief after all). However, the rest of the craft should have taken months, as the frame is usually the easiest thing to build, throwing everything else together and getting it working would normally take forever.

FeloniousMonk
September 19th, 2005, 11:36 AM
For all we know this is something the chief has wanted to do since high school. Those plans looked too detailed to have been dreamt up in a few hours. As far as building the rest of the ship I don't see why it would take months. He's basing the design around a craft he already knows inside and out. The avionics package, the weapons, flight control systems, life support...all those could be cannibalized from broken Vipers and it would make sense that he'd design his new ship to use all those parts.

For example, it takes General Motors an average of around six to eight weeks to roll a car off the assembly line. Now, I may not be able to build a CTS exactly as they would but I would have no problem purchasing a frame, body, drivetrain, and all the components necessary to build a faster and better handling (albiet far less luxurious) car in the course of a couple weeks. Fit and finish won't be perfect, parts may be off the shelf or even salvaged from other cars but it would do everything the Cadillac would.

Not saying it's any more believable that he got that done so quickly but I don't think the length of time makes it completely impossible.

starbucker1
September 19th, 2005, 04:20 PM
Episode reivew:

http://www.nowplayingmag.com/content/view/2235/47/

voigtstr
September 19th, 2005, 08:04 PM
It lasts about 2 seconds: another Sharon in Marine gear. And the camera focus is on her, not the prisoner Sharon in background.
I wonder how could she hide for so long since most people should have recognized her by now.
Or it's because I am so into Grace? :)

You are so into Grace that Male Marines start to look like her!

keshou
September 19th, 2005, 08:47 PM
Any episode that makes me cringe, gives me the warm fuzzies and makes me teary gets a thumbs up from me.

It wasn't perfect. Like others I have a hard time buying old Chief - as much as I love him - being able to fabricate a Viper in his spare time. I mean maybe a long project over several months but this seemed like it was just weeks. And it was a stealth fighter named "Blackbird". What are the chances. ;) :D

But what the heck. I loved it anyway. BSG's darkness is one of its real attractions for me but it needs these threads of joy and hope running thru it.

I know the ending was sappy - when they named the Viper "Laura". But I got all teary anyway. Especially after Roslin got her bad news. Jeez, I have been trying to avoid spoilers - surely they're not really going to kill her off? : :S

I quite enjoyed the confrontation between Chief and Helo. I feel bad for Helo although I agree he's become a bit of a - what was it Easter Lily called him? - namby pamby?

And what's up with Lee and Dee having a "moment". I sure hope they don't go there. I'm just now starting to buy into Kara/Lee. ;)

Sharon. I don't know what to think. Is she sincere? Are we being played? I kind of cringed when they brought her in with the neck ring on - like a dog - and at the way Adama referred to her as that "thing". So on some level I'm perceiving her as a human being with feelings.

But then I see her sticking the conduit up her arm to contact the Cylon fleet. Had to suspend the old disbelief there, btw. I mean, if she was different enough physically to allow for that - wouldn't that show up on examination? And yet, Cylons are supposed to be nearly identical to humans. eh. *hand wave*

I loved the visual of all the Cylon Raiders freezing in space. That was quite a moment. This show does a good job with all the little nuances that set it apart from your run of the mill show.

Only ONE more episode until the break. What the heck am I going to do without this show? :p :D

Bl4de
September 19th, 2005, 09:42 PM
Only part I "disliked" in this episode was the fact that Adama COMPLETELY ignored a thousand DEAD cylon raiders and transports. They had a LOT of mint condition enemy vessels to steal to use for spare parts, metal, study, etc. I'm almost certain they were in dire need of parts that very episode, yet Adama just simply let them all be destroyed. I know it was emotional and impactful and a crew morale boosting.. but that morale boost would have been nearly the same if they made more Blackbirds, were able to repair Vipers better, were able to study more and learn how to destroy them better etc.

I just don't see, strategically, why Adama let them destroy a fleet of perfectly healthy cylon ships which were disabled with a virus.

I almost spoke out loud during the episode.. I thought it was silly.

But it was fun none the less hearing them destroy a bunch of fish in the barrel.

LoneStar1836
September 19th, 2005, 10:54 PM
And it was a stealth fighter named "Blackbird". What are the chances. ;):DThat is fitting considering the SR-71 (now retired from service) was just a really fast reconnaissance aircraft and had no armament which apparently this one doesn’t have any either. Or I don’t think it does.

I know the ending was sappy - when they named the Viper "Laura". But I got all teary anyway. Especially after Roslin got her bad news. Jeez, I have been trying to avoid spoilers - surely they're not really going to kill her off? :SIt may have been sappy but I just loved it. That scene and the scene with her and Adama in his quarters were my favorites of the night. Oh and Tigh’s snark about knowing a still when he sees one and him snatching a pint. :D There is no way the end can be near for her this soon. Something has to happen next week that suspends that. Aside from any scene between Adama and Lee, the scenes with Roslin and Adama are my favorite of the show. Those two characters have a great dynamic and the actors work well together. I’ll be so sad if and when she goes.

Only ONE more episode until the break. What the heck am I going to do without this show? :P:DWell I’ll be watching my Season 1 DVDs which ship out tomorrow. Yay! I should get my pre-ordered copy by Friday. :D



For all we know this is something the chief has wanted to do since high school. Those plans looked too detailed to have been dreamt up in a few hours.I just assumed those were some schematics from a Viper manual or something, but I guess since it was a modified Viper, the Chief was probably already tinkering with the idea long before hand.

As far as building the rest of the ship I don't see why it would take months. He's basing the design around a craft he already knows inside and out. The avionics package, the weapons, flight control systems, life support...all those could be cannibalized from broken Vipers and it would make sense that he'd design his new ship to use all those parts.I think he was strictly prohibited from using cannibalized parts from other Vipers, even if they were junk. He made a comment to Tigh that he needed Adama’s permission to cannibalize a junk Viper so that’s why he was trading booze for parts and material out in the fleet. This was more like a hobby for him and the others so it wasn’t official military business so he couldn’t use designated military hardware. That’s why he didn’t have any metal to spare for the skin because it was all earmarked for the future repair of Vipers.



I know I shouldn’t care :D, but I just wish they would have had a better representation of the timeline. It just seemed really really odd in this episode. It seemed like maybe two or three days had passed from the time the Chief started to the time the others decided to pitch in and then only a day, maybe 2, after that you have Starbuck and Dee in that scene working on wiring. I guess everybody decided to quite their day jobs and help the Chief, including the Chief. :P

Starting with when Tyrol decided to build his bird that night it cuts to him asking the others to help the next morning when they came on duty. It then goes to Roslin being told she only has weeks, maybe a month to live. (If she only has a month to live, they got that plane built in less than a month or otherwise she'd be gone or about to kick it in the next episode if something doesn’t happen, which obviously something is because it is way too early to loose a character that valuable.) Then it cuts to the firing range incident. Then it cuts to the scene where they are disusing the firing range and Gaeta knows what the problem is - a Cylon virus. Adama says he’ll get Helo to talk to Sharon. It jumps to Tyrol trying to affix the wing by himself and at that point the crew decides to help. (So obviously several days have passed maybe even a week from the time Tyrol starts to when the others pitch in so I guess the thing about the frame shouldn't bother me as much.) Adama and Tigh talk about Tyrol’s fighter then it jumps to Dee and Lee training and then finally to Helo talking to Sharon who then demands to see Adama. (I guess it was a day or two before Helo went to see Sharon. I would have thought it would have been right away but it doesn’t seem that way.) Adama talks to Sharon. Then it jumps to the scene with Starbuck and Dee working on the wiring and Tigh paying the Chief a visit. (possibly two days between the crew deciding to pitch in and this scene of them wiring the plane.) Cut to Adama talking to Roslin in his quarters where he tells her he just came from talking to Sharon. After that it cuts to Sharon being lead to CIC. (It could have been a day or a week between Adama’s conversation and Sharon being escorted to CIC. Who knows…..) We have the big Viper/Cylon face off/payback then it goes to the Chief wiring in an engine and Starbuck making the comment about it almost being complete except for the skin. Helo makes his suggestion about the carbon composite and voila! Cut to completed plane.

The time line was just really choppy/ambiguous to me…….. I guess it just would have been better if this little project had been say spread out over two or three episodes, but I’m guessing the plane plays a crucial part in next week’s episode.

Yes, I was extremely bored tonight. I promise to let the subject drop after tonight. :D

Talisman
September 20th, 2005, 04:48 AM
Why did we see all the "cut scenes" showing the invading Cylon fleet? Sure it was great for building tension and a growing sense of menance, but, in the end, all the ships simply "jumped" immediately to BSG's vicinity. All the "jumps" we've seen in the past were instantaneous, there was no "whooshing" around of small groups of ships. One explanation might be that we were seeing small patrols being recalled. The fleet formation might have been gathered from many scattered locations then simultaneously jumped to the same destination.I got the impression that the fleet was gathering waiting for the signal from Galactica that the logic bomb was in control of the ship. The chatter from the comms system could have been status reports being broadcast. We know from the first series that Starbuck was able to jump directly from the fleet back to Caprica so there is no reason to believe that the Cylon fleet couldn't have jumped on top of Galactica at any time.

Talisman
September 20th, 2005, 06:22 AM
It wasn't perfect. Like others I have a hard time buying old Chief - as much as I love him - being able to fabricate a Viper in his spare time. I mean maybe a long project over several months but this seemed like it was just weeks. And it was a stealth fighter named "Blackbird". What are the chances. ;) :DWhy would it take so long? From the mini series we know that himself and his crew reconditioned Adama's old scrapped viper in their spare time without any notice been taken. If it took months to put together then I'm sure Adama would have spotted the shrouded heap of junk when touring the ship.

The ship Tyrol threw together was literally thrown together. The frame seemed to take the greatest length of time. There were no weapons systems fitted - it was barebones navigation and communications. There is inapropriate dampening so the manuveurabilty is pretty poor which is why Starbuck had trouble getting it under control. The ship is no more than a prototype which needs quite a bit of refinement, the only redeeming factor is its stealth and that only came about because Helo made a remark about usig the carbon fibre hull from the raptor - it wasn't like Tyrol had put it in his design plans.

Droops
September 20th, 2005, 08:24 AM
Only part I "disliked" in this episode was the fact that Adama COMPLETELY ignored a thousand DEAD cylon raiders and transports. They had a LOT of mint condition enemy vessels to steal to use for spare parts, metal, study, etc. I'm almost certain they were in dire need of parts that very episode, yet Adama just simply let them all be destroyed. I know it was emotional and impactful and a crew morale boosting.. but that morale boost would have been nearly the same if they made more Blackbirds, were able to repair Vipers better, were able to study more and learn how to destroy them better etc.

I just don't see, strategically, why Adama let them destroy a fleet of perfectly healthy cylon ships which were disabled with a virus.

I almost spoke out loud during the episode.. I thought it was silly.

But it was fun none the less hearing them destroy a bunch of fish in the barrel.

I thougth the same at first.

But those cylon 'ships' are cylons. Remember, they've got guts and everything inside of them. You would have to kill the living stuff on the inside in order to salvage the metal hulk on the outside.

And who knows how long the virus would have lasted? Those cylons could possibly have fixed the problem quickly and then resumed their attack. Much better to kill them now and then ask questions later.

However, I would say that they had lots of scrap metal out there that could now be put to good use. A salvage operation might have been useful.

Albion
September 20th, 2005, 08:49 AM
Enjoyed this one. I went all sappy when they named the ship Laura. :p

I'm a bit torn about Roslin actually. OTOH, I enjoy the character and would hate to see her leave the show. But on the other, I sooooooooo hope they're not planning the very cliched 'next week we find an alien miracle cure for Roslin's cancer and poof - she's fine from this point on'.

So I'm hoping they can come up with something original to allow her to stay. But have to say my hopes aren't high.

I keep feeling sorry for Sharon. I'm seeing a trend towards gradually having her become a part of the Galactica crew, let her out of prison. Whether she's fully trusted or not is another matter. And I would go along with that. She's a sympathetic character, machine or not. And I can't see them keeping her in that cell forever.

Also my heart goes out to the Chief. <sob>

The building of a new Viper was an interesting angle - highlighting a problem that they would of course have. Losing Vipers in battle and being unable to replace them, their stock must be running low. But, like other posters, I can't understand why they haven't been trying to salvage from Cylon fighters, which would have gone some way to solving their dwindling supplies. Even given that the 'Laura' was a success, they can't possibly build new Vipers fast enough to replace old stock. Especially when it was made clear in this episode that they had trouble finding enough parts to build the 'Laura' and it took a lot to get it all together. Building new Vipers in the circumstances we were presented with just doesn't seem to be a long-term option.

Also, here is as good a place as any to say that I have to get down on bended knees and offer up a heartfelt apology to this show. I've been forced to completely revise my opinion of it, after having no time for it last year. It just...grew on me. Now, I've just finished catching up on the S1 DVDs and have been ethralled each week with season two.

I still have trouble buying into episodes like Colonial Day and Final Cut, because the whole premise underlying them of a press pack and private resorts like Cloud Nine just make no logical sense to me whatsoever for a tiny group that's having to claw daily for survival, fighting a war, on the run. They're a complete waste of resources and in reality would probably have resulted in getting the lot of them killed by now. I mean, come on! You're scrabbling to survive day by day, resources low and you're allowing two guys to spend their time debating politics on a radio show all day?!? No way! In such a situation you'd have to use every last resource you had just to keep going. Including manpower. Those two would have to be told to start shifting crates in cargo or something if I was in charge. :p Earn their rations. Contribute something useful. When they settle on a planet they can indulge themself in reporters and political analysts. Along with admen, hairdressers, stockbrockers and all the rest. But not when they're in such a crisis situation. They're a luxury that the fleet just couldn't afford right now.

So that continues to be a sore point with me. I just can't buy it as a premise. But apart from that I'm a true blue convert. :D

Albion :)

FeloniousMonk
September 20th, 2005, 08:51 AM
Only part I "disliked" in this episode was the fact that Adama COMPLETELY ignored a thousand DEAD cylon raiders and transports. They had a LOT of mint condition enemy vessels to steal to use for spare parts, metal, study, etc. I'm almost certain they were in dire need of parts that very episode, yet Adama just simply let them all be destroyed. I know it was emotional and impactful and a crew morale boosting.. but that morale boost would have been nearly the same if they made more Blackbirds, were able to repair Vipers better, were able to study more and learn how to destroy them better etc.

I just don't see, strategically, why Adama let them destroy a fleet of perfectly healthy cylon ships which were disabled with a virus.

I almost spoke out loud during the episode.. I thought it was silly.

But it was fun none the less hearing them destroy a bunch of fish in the barrel.I think the pilots would've left a few intact here and there because they know better, or at least Apollo may have said "Hey, leave half a dozen or so untouched to take back to Galactica."

Don't get me wrong, I certainly see the issue with Adama not saying that himself but I just assume the order would be relayed after the scene ended (they had quite a few of them to work with, I'm sure they can have their fun ;)). While it would've made more sense to actually hear that line for us nitpickers, I think it would've taken from the drama just a bit.

FeloniousMonk
September 20th, 2005, 09:07 AM
That is fitting considering the SR-71 (now retired from service) was just a really fast reconnaissance aircraft and had no armament which apparently this one doesn’t have any either. Or I don’t think it does.


The time line was just really choppy/ambiguous to me…….. I guess it just would have been better if this little project had been say spread out over two or three episodes, but I’m guessing the plane plays a crucial part in next week’s episode.

Yes, I was extremely bored tonight. I promise to let the subject drop after tonight. :D
I agree, the timeline was pretty ambiguous. I would've liked to see some kind of counter at the beginning of each build scene like they did in 33 with the numbers of hours they'd been awake.

Oh and interesting note: While the SR-71 never had any weapons in production, its' prototype/predecessor the A12 (and the YF-12 for that matter) was tested for weapons capabilities and performed flawlessly. Had the CIA wanted to bomb the Soviets from a plane untouchable by even today's anti-aircraft defenses they could have. :eek:

Another interesting note is that the F-117 is called a stealth fighter despite being a bomber. o_O :p

dosed150
September 20th, 2005, 09:49 AM
i assume the new viper has guns wudnt be much of a fighter if it didnt

PrimalAscended
September 20th, 2005, 11:12 AM
What can I say.........Galactica just keeps getting better and keeps piling on the "what are the cylons up to???" !!!!!

Looking forward to next week :D

FeloniousMonk
September 20th, 2005, 12:15 PM
oh, one thing I forgot to point out

My favorite scene had to be when Tyrol was inspecting the downed Viper and had flashbacks to his time with Boomer. Makes me feel better about talking to cars when I work on them. :p

Bl4de
September 20th, 2005, 01:35 PM
I think the pilots would've left a few intact here and there because they know better, or at least Apollo may have said "Hey, leave half a dozen or so untouched to take back to Galactica."

Don't get me wrong, I certainly see the issue with Adama not saying that himself but I just assume the order would be relayed after the scene ended (they had quite a few of them to work with, I'm sure they can have their fun ;)). While it would've made more sense to actually hear that line for us nitpickers, I think it would've taken from the drama just a bit.

Lol let's hope.. I think already the show does that a lot, leaving some information out of the actual episode just leaving it up to people to guess, like how the heck were there like 5 Mark 3 Vipers for every 1 Mark 2 in the last episode lol. The episode before that Apollo said if anymore pilots were off rotation "cooks would be flying Vipers".

Easter Lily
September 20th, 2005, 02:32 PM
And what's up with Lee and Dee having a "moment". I sure hope they don't go there. I'm just now starting to buy into Kara/Lee. ;)


I'm glad that I'm not the only one that thought that was bizarre...
I was beginning to feel somewhat self-deluded... :D


I know I shouldn’t care , but I just wish they would have had a better representation of the timeline. It just seemed really really odd in this episode. It seemed like maybe two or three days had passed from the time the Chief started to the time the others decided to pitch in and then only a day, maybe 2, after that you have Starbuck and Dee in that scene working on wiring. I guess everybody decided to quite their day jobs and help the Chief, including the Chief.
After thinking it through a few times now, I think that that this was my biggest problem with the episode. I am almost certain now that the ambiguity of the timeline took away from the episode's sense of cohesion. As I said earlier, the strength of the episode was in its various people moments and it its sense of place but what it didn't have was a sense of time to hang it all together. There was a lot of jumping around, as has been the case in many episodes but in those episodes the timeline was clearly delineated but in this one, it was hard to know when they occurred... a lot of little moments... a lot of glimpses but no strong overarching story to piece them all together as one consistent whole.

Bl4de
September 22nd, 2005, 06:37 PM
Yeah the Dee/Lee thing is bad.. hopefully it was a fluke and we won't see Billy trying to defend his honor against Lee and some weird tension happening.

grover
September 22nd, 2005, 10:55 PM
I really hate to be the voice of Continuity but I haven't read one plausible explanation to explain the 40+ Vipers in this episode. In "Hand of God" they could only send up 20 ships and we know they lost a few of those.

I have to agree with some of the other posters that the editing seemed choppy at best, the story seemed to be all over the place time wise.

I've read lots of theories on who's a Cylon and who isn't, and I never saw any reason to suspect Dee until this episode. What is the #1 goal of the Cylons? Procreation. Dee practically molesting Lee on the wrestling mat reminded me of the alien from "Species." Dee was trying to select the most suitable male to produce an offspring. Any other reason for the forced attraction is just too stupid to contemplate. :rolleyes:

anotherquestion
September 23rd, 2005, 07:54 AM
I really hate to be the voice of Continuity but I haven't read one plausible explanation to explain the 40+ Vipers in this episode. In "Hand of God" they could only send up 20 ships and we know they lost a few of those.

Wasn't that right after "Act of Contrition" when many of the vipers were fouled by the gunk in the atmosphere when conducting searches for the lost Starbuck? Couldn't that explain why they were able to field so few vipers then? Also wasn't the fleet divided when they attacked the Cylon fuel base and the numbers "lowballed" on the com chatter to confuse anyone who might have been listening in?

MASON
September 23rd, 2005, 08:09 PM
Billy a cylon? That I haven't considered. Now, I've speculated over Gaeta before, as have many, but did anyone catch how, while Sharon is in the CIC, Adama is calling her, "it," and everyone else is very cold, but Gaeta just turns to her with, "Here you go, Sharon."

What was that about?

First it's Gaeta's idea to make them vulnerable, then he addresses the exposed Cylon, Sharon, by her former name. And unless they reveal that Gaeta was having an affair with Sharon, as well, I'm just gonna have to call it.

Felix, I'm calling you out!

But, of course, Gaeta could just be an easy target to distract us from a subtler plot.

On another note, I thought the Blackbird was very fittingly named Laura. As Laura's got only weeks to live and to find earth, the new ship is dressed in black, a sign of mourning, and eerily coffin like, foreshadowing her death... and perhaps, ressurection (phoenix?).

Otherwise, I thought this episode was a bit lacking, and stretching our assumption of just how many Vipers remain in service. It looked like about forty were up against that grid of raiders, and we were supposed to be at around twenty (The Hand of God). But hey, I still enjoyed it.

I still think this season needs more crazy Baltar!!!

larocque6689
October 5th, 2005, 09:00 PM
Belatedly, here are excerpts from the Flight of the Phoenix podcast.

--

"Flight of the Phoenix" began life very early in the season. We were talking about initial story ideas for this season. I had this image of Tyrol waking up in the middle of the night, going down into the hangar deck, taking a big piece of tape, laying out a pattern on the floor, and deciding, "I'm going to build a Viper." There was something about it psychologically that I liked for the character. There was something about the series and the mythos of the show and how the fleet operates that I liked about dealing this bit of the reality of the situation. They are losing Vipers and losing pilots and none of these things are being replaced from home. They all have to make do with what they got. And so I really liked the notion of doing a show that was centered around that concept. If not addressing all the needs of the fleet, in all the many ways, let's just do a show that talks about the difficulty of building one fighter...

This was one of those really long shows that came in and a lot of choices had to be made, and through the varying cuts, the thing that we kept coming back to was this story, the gathering of the family to accomplish the one task that he set out to, and the father figure coming down to seeing it. It all kept circling back to tell the story about the family.

--

What's going to happen when these guys meet? What's going to finally take place between Helo and Tyrol get together? We talked at length what they would do when these two finally got together. You start with the most obvious idea, is the one we ended up with, which is that they fight... On some level you knew that the thing that was most in character for these two men, based on the people that we had seen them be, Helo down on Caprica and Helo dealing with people on Galactica and Kobol, that there's a lot of rage and a lot of frustration and a lot of self-hatred and ambiguity in both these men over the choices that they've made, over the people that they've chosen to give their hearts to. And the fact that they now come face to face with the representational other of themselves, how could you not want to beat the crap out of him? The moment of [Tyrol] reaching for the wrench is interesting and telling about just how far the rage has built in these men. Actually, I got a note from Bradley Thompson and his partner David Weddle, who wrote this episode, and they objected to that moment. I must say, in their defence, I completely understand why they object to it, because it really says something pretty bad about Tyrol, which is why I like it. I like the fact that Tyrol, for a moment lost himself in that. He's been drinking, he picked up that wrench, and for a moment really thought about caving in Helo's skull with it. There's a seduction to that, and there's pull to that, and it's an emotion that I think the character would genuinely feel in those circumstances. There's a truth to it. Ultimately that's why I went with the fight.

--

This scene with Laura and Cottle, there actually is quite a bit of dialog with this scene, but the director and the editor both decided to cut this scene silently and play all these emotional beats... You can tell this entire story visually, there's not that much dialog that's necessary for you to understand completely what's going on here. It was a really good instinct on the part of the director, Michael Nankin and Jacques Gravett, who cut this show. You gotta love it when Doc Cottle's feeling bad for you. When Cottle isn't messing with you and smoking at you and being a prick, it must be bad.

--

This is the effects of hypoxia, this really happens. There's a lot of footage in various documentaries of pilot candidates being put into pressurized chambers where they have oxygen masks, and they slowly bleed the oxygen out of the room, and they're given various tasks. And you just watch the footage of these people slowly losing it. Some of them start giggling, some are just completely checked out of it, others get all panicky. There's a lot of variant reactions to the onset of hypoxia, which really gave us a chance to play the scene in a really disturbing key... The notion that Starbuck and Apollo did this together is something the actors came up with. They liked the idea of him steadying her hand to shoot out the window.

--

There was a point where we were going to make "Pegasus" a 90 minute episode, and we were looking for ways to lengthen it... And one of the ways we thought about doing that was to open "Pegasus" with this scene. That you would open cold with Lee and Dualla in this combat thing and establish the relationship a little bit more for the audience, and show that there's something going on and then get into the "Pegasus" show... We had been talking about doing the Lee/Billy/Dualla triangle for most of the season. The notion of putting them together came up and we were shooting "Resistance" when we decided definitively to do it, because in "Resistance" there's that whole little subplot of Lee and Dualla, her coming and being the one that would walk with him down the corridor every morning and give him a report, and idle conversation back and forth between two somewhat intimates. What I liked about extending that as a relationship was there was a certain logic to it, there was a certain emotional truth to the idea that Dualla is the voice the pilots always hear. There's a special relationship between her and the pilots, the pilots look on her very fondly. I think they are a bit protective of her. She probably talks to Lee more than the other pilots. He's the CAG, there's probably a lot of wireless communication back and forth between Lee and Dualla on a day to day basis. And it stood to reason that there could be a relationship between those two.

--

You can see that we've moved the construction of the fighter in fairly big leaps. We could have chosen to parse out the building of the Viper over many episodes. This could have been a running B story that took three or four episodes to ultimately pay off. But there was something about doing it in one in one episode that seemed to really speak to the larger emotional arc of what's going on in the show. These people that are starting to have gotten to a place where Adama says everyone is depressed because they've realized this is what it's going to be for them... So it felt right to then do an episode that was centered around one man's effort to do something about that... The true timeline of how long it would really take Tyrol to actually build one of these things from scratch, it would be weeks realistically. But you'd rather tell the story in one package. You'd rather tell the story, hold the viewer in the moment of the scenes, make themselves invest in the effort and pay it off. You can fudge the timeline, there's no definitive statement in the episode of how long this is all taking. It's kept purposely vague... It's more important to tell the story than it is to really get bogged down in the details of exactly how long it takes him to build the thing.

--

Technobabble has its roots in science. We try to be very faithful to what could really happen and to what most reasonably could happen but it's stuff we're making up as we're going along.. And it's trying to serve a dramatic purpose within the show. And if you're successful you deliver on that promise of having it make sense while at the same time not getting so bogged down in the explanations and trying to cover every base and trying to deal with every possible ramification of a given problem.

--

We got to go out on a limb, we got to do something different. I want to have a different sequence here, I don't want to just deal with some stupid space battle again. So they put their heads together, and I think I was in a room with David and Bradley and I think I said just off handedly, I don't know if I want her like standing in CIC shoving conduits in her arm, as cool as that might be. We started joking about it and laughing and it just sort of happened. Let's do it, let's do something freakishly weird with her and remind the audience and ourselves that she is a machine. That she's not a human, that she is something quite different, that she operates in ways that we don't always understand... There was this interesting contradiction in [the Cylons] that they were machines that had tried very hard to emulate the human form, down to the microscopic level, that they were virtually indistinguishable from us. But logically, as incredibly advanced sentient beings that have evolved on their own and have evolved themselves in certain directed ways, one would think and expect that they had other methods of data sharing, that they chose to speak to us and to one another out of something more philosophical and more theological than technical necessity... They have other options but they choose to be human. They choose that this is what they think their God wants their form to take.

--

We kept calling it the turkey shoot. There was an air battle in the Second World War in the Pacific. I believe it was in the Marianas. Essentially the Japanese sent one of their last great throes of aircraft at the American fleet, but the pilots were very green and the Americans were much more powerful and experienced then they were at the beginning of the war, and they just simply slaughtered the Japanese. They shot down hundreds of aircraft. It was called the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot, and it was a similar idea.

--

larocque6689
October 5th, 2005, 09:00 PM
This idea of it being a stealth ship instead of a fighter grew out of internal discussions of what they could realistically build. Having them build the Viper from scratch was a bit of a stretch, but I didn't think he could really build a combat fighter like a Viper. If he built an actual Viper, it seemed like we pushed it too far. So it seemed like, they could build something that would have a different purpose. And what would be a craft that would give them an advantage that would be useful for them to have, that maybe they didn't have sitting around already? If it was a stealth ship, that would be interesting and useful, and it's another way of connecting to the audience, because the audience is familiar with stealth technology at this point.

--

This scene used to take place before the test flight of the Viper and we swapped it in editing, because this felt like the emotional climax of the show. Whereas in the story, we thought the emotional climax was the first test flight, and that's the way we wrote it. You watch the film, and this is the emotional high point of the show. I was there when they shot this scene, and I haven't been on the set a lot this season, not as much as I was last season. So, it was a rarity to be there to watch them shoot something with virtually the entire cast... I just became very moved by it, and I was just very touched by it, and I just was very much in love with these people and the show. You have these moments where you suddenly connect with the people doing the show, with the actors, with the crew. You're just so proud of being associated with these people and what they're doing, and it's such a privilege to be able to work on a show like this.

--

There was a bit of dialog where Tyrol talks to Sharon for the moment, and essentially says something like "I'm ashamed" and she says, "Of what?" and he says, "I'm ashamed of still loving you" was the idea... That was Michael Nankin and Jacques Gravett again, who came up with cutting out before we hear anything. And it doesn't really matter what they say to each other. We really don't want to know what they say to each other in a real way. All we really want to know is that he went down there and faced his demon, decided to talk to her, somehow, someway. And that that was the journey of the character. The character had started off the show by scrapping things, by being obsessed with this woman, about fighting with an officer about this woman, about all this pent-up emotional frustration that he chooses then to build a Viper with. Then he accomplshes that goal and does this successfuly, but that what really he needs to do is really needs to walk down to that brig and pick up that phone and say something to this woman.

MASON
October 9th, 2005, 08:47 PM
According to Battlestar (http://www.battlestarwiki.org) Wiki's count, there were ~40 Vipers shown in the shot, while based on previous episodes there is only ~30 Vipers remaining and ~20 Pilots with which to fly them.

I'm not sure what Log 110 is referring to, perhaps Hand of God, but I found the attached Viper count on Sci-Fi's Ships (http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/ships) page. Which hasn't been updated since Season One, so we have to make subtractions from the roster from there.

So we're looking at a possible total of 35 fighters on Galactica, minus one in FotP(209).

Caprice
October 10th, 2005, 10:13 PM
I just don't see, strategically, why Adama let them destroy a fleet of perfectly healthy cylon ships which were disabled with a virus.
I think I would have made the same call. If all those captured raiders suddenly "woke up" (if the virus was a ploy) when they get them into the landing pod, well, I have a feeling they'd not have anywhere to build new "stealth vipers", let alone anything else. It was the action with the fewest questions for the safety of the ship and fleet.

Bladefanatic
October 21st, 2005, 05:33 PM
Another great episode! I'm not sure how I'm gonna handle the season break! :(

Some things I noticed...

They are definitely setting up some sort of attraction between Dee and Apollo. One of the funniest parts of the ep to me was when Apollo was chatting with Starbuck next to the under-construction viper and Dee slides out from beneath. Apollo's reaction, his tone of voice really, just screamed "Ummm, this is awkward."


I too found this eps really great! I loved that Lee was showing some sort of tension/attraction towards Dee. I usually love Lee/Kara, but when this new thing happened, I thought Lee and Dee would make a great couple!

I thought it was wonderful that the whole crew was able to find hope in this project, and it was great that they named it Laura.

jimmy
October 26th, 2005, 02:17 PM
A bit off topic, but i'm just curious. Which episode did ye think was better (since they dealt with similar topics i.e. enemy computer viruses infecting protagonist's capital ships ) Sg-Atlantis' ''Intruder'' or Galactica's ''Flight of the Phoenix'' ?

maddyjames
November 6th, 2005, 09:13 PM
Lonestar -- You know, I had thought about that, the ship was built relatively fast... but then, I figured, as driven as Chief was, maybe he didn't sleep for days putting the thing together, he was just sort of so focused, I wouldn't have been suprised. That's my take... He was just so focused he worked and worked and worked.

I love Sharon, I really hope she's not bad!!

jmallx-- I thot they did, I thot I saw a Y incision on Boomer's chest when Adama pulled her out of the morgue drawer. Will have to watch again to satisfy my curiosity!

userfriendly
November 15th, 2005, 07:09 PM
I still think this season needs more crazy Baltar!!!

he is "NOT CRAZY!", yanno? :D damn i loved that scene... his eyes torn open in crazy rage and the red light... lol

you may be right about gaeta - but then again he maybe is just the more sensitive kind of person... well, and the president's aide, billy, is just way to sane to be a cylon :D

MASON
November 16th, 2005, 07:32 PM
he is "NOT CRAZY!", yanno? :D damn i loved that scene... his eyes torn open in crazy rage and the red light... lol

you may be right about gaeta - but then again he maybe is just the more sensitive kind of person... well, and the president's aide, billy, is just way to sane to be a cylon :D
Initially I thought James Callis overdid it in the miniseries, but after 33, Baltar was one of my favourite characters, and, after the sudden montage of flashbacks they showed when he was introduced to Shelley Godfrey, the brainscan has got to be one of the higlights of the series.

Baltar's unintentional humour is a brilliant twist for one of the darkest characters in the series.

Oh, and then of course there's, "No more mister nice Gaius!!!" :D

userfriendly
November 16th, 2005, 08:04 PM
Oh, and then of course there's, "No more mister nice Gaius!!!" :D
yeah, that one was a great one, too :D

i wonder what the ongoing plot has in store for him :rolleyes: i mean... RDM or someone said there would be abortion as a story element - that would fit very nicely between the facts that sharon's baby is still a very little fetus and that roslin only has a few weeks left. and from what we know from the spoilers the baby will provide the cure for her cancer and baltar will come up with that idea - but.. :S ..what about his role as the figurative father and the "guardian and protector of the new generation of god's children" then?!

i guess he will help roslin survive (probably ordered to do so by adama) and then be agonized by his guilt, which might be his final turning point for switching to the cylon side of the game, becoming the evil baltar we know from the original series :rolleyes: mhmm... well, ok that might be just a guess :D and we shall not guess, shall we... :p

MASON
November 16th, 2005, 08:44 PM
yeah, that one was a great one, too :D

i wonder what the ongoing plot has in store for him :rolleyes: i mean... RDM or someone said there would be abortion as a story element - that would fit very nicely between the facts that sharon's baby is still a very little fetus and that roslin only has a few weeks left. and from what we know from the spoilers the baby will provide the cure for her cancer and baltar will come up with that idea - but.. :S ..what about his role as the figurative father and the "guardian and protector of the new generation of god's children" then?!

i guess he will help roslin survive (probably ordered to do so by adama) and then be agonized by his guilt, which might be his final turning point for switching to the cylon side of the game, becoming the evil baltar we know from the original series :rolleyes: mhmm... well, ok that might be just a guess :D and we shall not guess, shall we... :p

And who says we shouldn't speculate, that's what the forums are for. :p

If Gaius is the one to help cure Roslin, assisted by Doc Cottle, then I can see him doing it out of fear of the Presidency. I think he's happy with being second in line, having the power to deflect suspicion, and not be constantly forced into the spotlight by the press. I think Baltar might save Roslin in order to shield himself from the spotlight.

However, there is the alternative plot that Baltar could refuse to aid in the procedure and then Roslin, as well as the Galactica command, could grow increasingly suspicious of his Cylon-favouring tendencies, Baltar being unwilling to use the tissue of the hybrid foetus to save the president of the colonies.

userfriendly
November 16th, 2005, 08:51 PM
And who says we shouldn't speculate, that's what the forums are for. :p
right :D i'll take a guess then...


... think Baltar might save Roslin in order to shield himself from the spotlight...

However, there is the alternative plot...
either way, it's going to be hard for him to do the one or the other. save roslin, avoid exposure (either to spotlight or being a traitor) and get grilled by six - or try to save the child and get grilled by the humans in turn :rolleyes: that's going to be interesting :D

Konrad9
January 26th, 2006, 01:11 AM
I recently watched this episode again, and this has been nagging me since it originally aired.
What the hell kind of a formation were the Cylons in.
Vertical stack? ...why?
Every time I see them, I think "That looks like some kind of letter or symbol."
Anyone else seeing this or am I just going Baltar?

Matt G
March 7th, 2006, 03:23 PM
Hmmm...

1. Chief and Helo: Cool it...

2. Liked the hypoxia scene.

3 "It's payback time" Yay!

4. Stealth ships have their uses! :)

5. Thanks for the pod cast, was wondering what was going down between Chief and Boomer at the end.

In short, chalk up another solid ep.

packeteer
June 17th, 2006, 09:00 PM
After Sharon disabled all the Cylon ships in that 200 ship Cylon attack armada by using their computer virus against them, why did Col.Tie order them ALL destroyed?

Starbuck and Sharon were able to hijack a Cylon transport from Caprica, and Starbuck not only maneuvered a fighter, but could jump it all the way back to Caprica!

So why wouldn't Adama want to cannibalize at least some of disabled Cylon fleet, not simply destroy it?!

After all, half the episode was about how their old fighters were falling into disrepair, and how desperately new fighters, fuel, and their parts were needed.

helio9
July 2nd, 2006, 10:38 PM
After Sharon disabled all the Cylon ships in that 200 ship Cylon attack armada by using their computer virus against them, why did Col.Tie order them ALL destroyed?

Starbuck and Sharon were able to hijack a Cylon transport from Caprica, and Starbuck not only maneuvered a fighter, but could jump it all the way back to Caprica!

So why wouldn't Adama want to cannibalize at least some of disabled Cylon fleet, not simply destroy it?!

After all, half the episode was about how their old fighters were falling into disrepair, and how desperately new fighters, fuel, and their parts were needed.

Far be it for me to agree with Col. Tie...he's generally a moron; but he made the correct call here.

Their tactical advantage (the cylons being shut down) was given to them by Sharon, who herself is a cylon. They hadn't examined the virus, they don't understand how it works, or whether the cylons could fight it off eventually.

That fleet was large enough to destroy BSG, and they had found a weakness. Given all the unknowns, they had no choice but to kill them. Granted, they could have maybe left a couple alive for salvage...but you all saw the emotion there. The pilots wanted blood. I can hardly blame them.

MB.Eddie
November 9th, 2006, 09:26 AM
Wow. What an awesome ep. My favourite of season 2 for sure, and one of the best of the series to date imo.

Showed how everyone was suffering under the stress, and how a little hope can go a long way. Got to love the Blackbird too. Stealth ships rock :)

Also loved that they had a Cylon virus ep, as i thought that they were due for one.

A little hint of romance between Apollo and Dee. That was interesting and unexpected.

It was interesting how Sharon used her own virus to cripple the Cylon force. Loved how the pilots enjoyed the payback :)

The scene where they name the blackbird 'Laura' was quite good too. Brought the crew closer together and restored hope. And the other Pilots accepting Helo after a while was due too.

neurophobic_and_perfect
February 2nd, 2007, 01:08 PM
Boomer pluging herself in was, to say the least, interesting...

Love the blackbird, shame apollo breaks it in "resurection"

Ishay
April 27th, 2009, 06:05 PM
very cool ep the only problem is that do you beilieve the cylons would really send that many raiders :rolleyes: other then that i liked it

the blackbird is awesome and i hope it's around for a very long time :)

Morgania
October 1st, 2010, 08:11 AM
They could have captured more raiders.

The blackbird was very cool. Starbuck's comment about it being a stealth ship was good.

Pharaoh Atem
October 5th, 2010, 04:59 PM
They could have captured more raiders.

The blackbird was very cool. Starbuck's comment about it being a stealth ship was good.
i never understood why the pilots even wasted so much ammo on destroying them

Morgania
October 5th, 2010, 08:24 PM
i never understood why the pilots even wasted so much ammo on destroying them

Me neither. They just went on a shooting spree.

Pharaoh Atem
October 5th, 2010, 08:29 PM
Me neither. They just went on a shooting spree.

yup the railders seemed out of it if your barely surving then you shouldn't waste ammo

Professor_S
June 6th, 2011, 05:13 PM
I love this episode. BSG was always so good about showing us the toll extraordinary events takes on our protagonists; they aren't super-human and TPTB were never afraid to show us that.

One of my favourite lines from this ep is Tyrol's "Maybe that's the problem." And his determination to build the viper - with help or not - was amazing (not to mention excellently portrayed by Aaron Douglas).

Tyrol (for coming up with the idea) and Adama (for letting it continue) showed great insight into the human condition and the need for hope. It's like Adama said in the mini - "it's not enough to just live. You have to have something to live for."

The final scene in the hangar bay - still brings tears to my eyes every time I watch it. Roslin's speech was perfect and the music, of course was spot on. I still shed a tear when Tyrol reveals the name of the bird. And Roslin's "Kidding..." :D Nice touch to the scene.

This episode was about hope and reconciliation. Warm and fuzzy is not something BSG does often, but when they do, boy do they do it well. Makes it feel so much more real for its relative scarcity too.