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GateWorld
September 8th, 2005, 11:17 AM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s9/910.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/graphics/910.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">SG-1 SEASON NINE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s9/910.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none"><B>THE FOURTH HORSEMAN, PART 1</B></A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 910</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
Earth is infected with a deadly Ori plague, prompting an ally from SG-1's past to come to their aide. Gerak proposes that the Free Jaffa follow the Ori religion.

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s9/910.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

verbals2000
September 16th, 2005, 07:06 PM
Those Eeeeeeevil B_A_S_T_A_R_D_S!

AGateFan
September 16th, 2005, 07:10 PM
?I'm sorry, what?

deathbed1983
September 16th, 2005, 07:11 PM
another great epidsode tonight, i can't wait for part 2

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
September 16th, 2005, 07:11 PM
One of the best episodes this season. Can't wait till January
Dr. (Bob) Lee's best episode of the whole series.

Bobthespirit
September 16th, 2005, 07:15 PM
I want to know why they'd take an interesting, dynamic semi-villain and transform him into a one dimensional boring villain just to cheesily stack the odds against earth some more.

(And why couldn't they make the pryors' powers original? They just hacked the jedi and made them look like Palpatine! Lame.)

the fifth man
September 16th, 2005, 07:26 PM
I want to know why they'd take an interesting, dynamic semi-villain and transform him into a one dimensional boring villain just to cheesily stack the odds against earth some more.

(And why couldn't they make the pryors' powers original? They just hacked the jedi and made them look like Palpatine! Lame.)

I totally disagree. Not that I don't respect your opinion, of course. I think Gerak will now probably be his most interesting. :) And as for the Priors being lame, I don't think so.

Balmug
September 16th, 2005, 07:27 PM
Now THAT was a creepy ep, I mean even at the end I know Garrik would become a prior from the screen shots but man... it still creeped me out.

the fifth man
September 16th, 2005, 07:28 PM
Sometimes creepy can be good. In this instance, I think it was.

Peoples_General
September 16th, 2005, 07:28 PM
SPOILERS.....
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Orlin himself said it. Ori are just lying to their followers. That and they somehow sap the life-force of those who believe in them to make them more powerful. The Priors and Doci are not aware of these actions by their so-called "gods".

Not only that... the Ori and Alterans were 1 people, but a philosophical divide sent them into a civil war. The Alterans didn't want to fight and just fled when the Ori tried to destroy them.

AGateFan
September 16th, 2005, 07:29 PM
I like this ep pretty well and can't wait until the second half of the season but its hard to judge this ep when compared to Prototype.

However
Bratec - Yay
Garek - boo and yay - I hate him, but I guess thats the point.
Olin - I soo wish Sean had been available but the kid did a good job.
Ori - I knew they were sucking their worshippers dry... they are ascende wraith? or AD&D gods...either way... I knew it.
Mitchell - Great
Sam - Great
Daniel - Great
Teal'c - Great
Dr Lee - Great
Walter - Great
Jaffa counsil woman - still solid
Gareks first prime like guy --- hes soo gonna turn to our side
CJs brother -- nice to see him back too.
Lam - Great
Landry - Great
Virus --- very bbaadd.. bad virus.. but good plot point for midseason cliffhanger.
New toy to beat the priors - Cool.

I will grade this ep a B or B+. It was a solid ep but didnt get me cheering like Prototype..

chyron
September 16th, 2005, 07:30 PM
Didn't see it hear so I thought I'd start it.


I liked the explanation of the Alterans & Orii originally being one race and having philosophical differences.

Also liked the discussion of the Orii religion being a lie to gain power by submission.

Like the explanation as to why the Ancients don't interfer with corporeal matters. Nice bit of consistency there.

I thought that Orlin coming back as a child was a novel way of dealing with the original actor not being available. However, I did find it somewhat comical knowing the real reason he was a kid. His mention to Sam that he still has the same feelings for her was just weird/downright bizaree/comical.

Liked the idea of the Ancients allowing him to return to help out.

the fifth man
September 16th, 2005, 07:30 PM
Yeah, I'd give "Prototype" an A, and "The Fourth Horseman Part 1" a B++

the fifth man
September 16th, 2005, 07:32 PM
I think this revelation was big. Up until now, the Ori weren't for sure totally evil. Now, we know they are. All they care about is serving their own needs. And sg-1 is going to find a way to make them pay. If we could turn a Prior or two, that wouldn't hurt either.

Osiris-RA
September 16th, 2005, 07:32 PM
Ok, this one, I have to say I enjoyed a little more. Although, I have to say, peaking of clones, SG9's starting to feel like a bad clone of the original Stargate.

A few nitpicks as usual:

The whole scene in the beginning with the Lam comment was stupid. Who cares if someone makes a joke about her giving someone a spongue bath? And why would Mitch care?? I don't care! So what if she's the General's daughter, it's not like he actually has my respect, even though he's a general. In fact, the whole base seems to be falling apart under this guy. I don't get a sense of security any more. And Lam - this whole daddy/daughter angle...what's it for? As to her doctoring skills, I don't think i'd feel as comfortable knowing Lam is gonna take care of it as I would knowing Dr. Frasier's gonna take care of it. Fraiser had a mothering presence. She knew how to make you comfortable. She had power and she knew she did. I don't think Lam totally realizes her power as a Dr. Without her ok, nothing happens, period.

We all applauded here when Hammond showed up - same as when we saw SPF on the flashbacks. Ah, how I missed his bull-dog like voice. *sniff*

Again, Show me, don't tell me. I didn't see one person drop dead, go into convulsions, foam at the mouth, eyes glaze over white, nothin. What kind of sucky virus footage is that!? SHOW ME PEOPLE!!! I WANT CARNAGE, CHAOS, CONFUSION, CALAMITY!! Besides S9 that is...

Of the whole show, Mini-Orlin had to be the funniest - oh, and that part when Sam had her phones in. Heh heh. It never took an Oeudipal turn - whew. I practicaly lost my appetite snickering when - uh - mini-orlin said - uh - ;The Thing'. [snickers uncontrollably] Man, I'd love to see some bloopers from that one. Meanwhile, young Bright could have pulled his lines off a little less dryly. Orlin was always dry - but in an emotional way. Which brings me to the question - how could SPF decide some romance flick was more important than appearing as a beacon of light for us in the SG fandom??? I mean - *SMACK*! :eek: How could you abandon us!?? *sobs* Anyhoo, AT pulled it off without too many smirks of course, that's a plus. This being Cameron Brights second flick being cast as 'involved' with a more mature person, you gotta wonder if the poor kids been type cast into a slightly uncool rut. :S I hope not.

The Ori are boring - as usual - and by the way, why did Orlin decide to decend at this time now? Awfully convenient - I must've missed his reasons for that. Gerak is a fool, Teal'c needs to bring in the heavy ammunition, and someone needs to throw some soda in the Orii Pit. Bada bing bada boom, problem solved. And no need to tell us why you chose "that form", kid, I know, I know, the 'Other' is a tad pre-occupied at the moment. :rolleyes: Now I suppose they'll kill him off. That's right, complete your mass genocide of interesting characters, PTB. *siiiiggghhh*

The last question I'm left with which swims it's way up to the surface from the midts of countless others is...why the back to back eps?

Ah well...it's Miller time....

Shivan
September 16th, 2005, 07:34 PM
Two great episodes in one night, wow. I am crying, I'm in tears over here.

Someone hold me!

MarshAngel
September 16th, 2005, 07:34 PM
All things we've speculated on. Which makes their "big catch" not all that surprising...not that I mind. I couldn't see them going in any other direction.

It's nice to have so many answers. Now we can start more speculation. I begin to see more clearly the anti-religious themes others were talking about.

AGateFan
September 16th, 2005, 07:35 PM
Yes it was interesting they overtly pointed out the Ori were into "religion" while the Alterans were into "science". Hmmm creationism vs evolution anyone?

Mio
September 16th, 2005, 07:37 PM
Aw. I just have the horrible feeling that Orlin is going to die.

the fifth man
September 16th, 2005, 07:41 PM
Aw. I just have the horrible feeling that Orlin is going to die.

Unfortunately, I think so too. He'll probably hang on just long enough to at least help us stall this plague.

Snork
September 16th, 2005, 07:44 PM
I though the whole science vs religion thing between the Alterans and the Ori was kind of dumb and blatant. I also didn't like the explanation that the Ori magically get more power the more people that worship them. I though that was kind of a lame explanation; I was hoping for something more climactic. That said, I'm glad that Gossett was able to show the internal strife Gerak had going on while converting. It wouldn't have been so clean-cut.

MarshAngel
September 16th, 2005, 07:46 PM
He probably is but I won't miss him much. He's kind of dry and monotonous.

IMForeman
September 16th, 2005, 08:06 PM
GENERAL HAMMOND!!!! That was my jubilant exclamation the moment his voice was heard. I really hadn't been expecting him. I wasn't paying attention to the guest cast when it started, so both him and Bra'tac came as pleasant surprizes to me.

-IMF

the fifth man
September 16th, 2005, 08:13 PM
It was awesome being Bra'tac and Hammond again. I know we probably won't see Hammond much, but I hope Bra'tac can continue to be a semi-regular. I love that character.

Jkrickit
September 16th, 2005, 08:21 PM
I have one thing to say after watching The Fourth Horseman.....WHERE'S MY DANIEL?
It amazes me that the writers have been utilizing Michael Shanks talents so little in the last couple of episodes. This is the actor that the writers knew was the ONLY ONE who could pull off episodes such as Lifeboat. Here I am watching this episode and I keep thinking, Where the frak is Daniel? No mention of him off on some assignment. Just this unexplained absence that stood out like a sore thumb. I left after the ending shaking my head, very disappointed. Thank God we had some eps like Avalon 1 & 2, Origin and TPTB this season that I can watch over and over again because it's unlikely I would want to watch this ep very many times. Writers of Stargate SG-1... Michael Shanks is STAR material. You are blowing it by putting him in the background.

kharn the betrayer
September 16th, 2005, 08:25 PM
I liked this episode instantly as soon as I saw Bra'tac and Hammond. :D


Also I find it nice that Sam had something to do and Daniel took the back seat, considering the 1st few episodes were basicly the Daniel and Vala show.

MarshAngel
September 16th, 2005, 08:27 PM
Is it just me or Is Bra'tac looking healthier and younger?

sgatelvr
September 16th, 2005, 08:27 PM
Yes, I was very pleased with this ep, too! Loved seeing Orlin again, even if it wasn't adult Orlin! He's still so cool. I hate to think of him dying, but they pretty much said he would with Sam's comment "this is a one way trip for you ..." Very sad.

I liked that Gerak faltered when it came to attacking Chulak. It shows he does have some semblence of a conscience. However, he was very creepy as a prior!!

Glad we got so many answers about the Ori & the Alterans. I wasn't too terribly surprised to hear that the Ori are basically lying to everyone & feeding off of their believers, but I had kind of hoped they wouldn't be so incredibly evil. It is more interesting to fight an enemy with good intentions, but major philosophical differences. Well, I guess we still have that with the priors. Can we turn them? Hmmmm ...

I so wanted Cam to win the fight with the sodan. Then he could have said something like, "now can we talk?!" Oh well.

Hate, hate HATE having to wait until January to see the second half!! Waaahhhhh!! (But I did watch the 2nd have of Threshhold--looked very interesting. Could be a good substitute until SG1 is back ...)

I agree with others before me: A for Prototype, B++ for Fourth Horseman

sgatelvr
September 16th, 2005, 08:29 PM
Is it just me or Is Bra'tac looking healthier and younger?
I agree. Of course, he did lose the rubber hat ... :p

MarshAngel
September 16th, 2005, 08:36 PM
I'm glad we finally have a decent answer to why the ancients don't interfere. The more they get involved in human affairs, the more the humans look to them with devotion, the more they get accustomed to the power they get from it, the more likely they are to be come drunk on it.
Despite the predictability of the Ori gaining power from their worshippers, that aspect worked to the benefit of explaining the ascended ancients.

greytop
September 16th, 2005, 08:42 PM
Great episode. Good to see General Hammond and Bra'tac. I almost didn't reconize Bra'tac without his helmet. I figure it was Orin when we saw someone watching Sam.

But my question, though it might been mentioned, did the Ancients send Orin to help us out just this once to get us on the right tract?

AGateFan
September 16th, 2005, 08:44 PM
Great episode. Good to see General Hammond and Bra'tac. I almost didn't reconize Bra'tac without his helmet. I figure it was Orin when we saw someone watching Sam.

But my question, though it might been mentioned, did the Ancients send Orin to help us out just this once to get us on the right tract?
Orlin said that enough of them thought it was necessary....so I guess they just agreed to look the other way.

Osiris-RA
September 16th, 2005, 08:45 PM
Also I find it nice that Sam had something to do and Daniel took the back seat, considering the 1st few episodes were basicly the Daniel and Vala show.

Correction: The Micheal Shanks Show starring Micheal Shanks and Claudia Black (and a bunch of other people) :p

Dave Thomer
September 16th, 2005, 08:46 PM
Overall, I liked this. I'm disappointed that the Ori aren't actually bringing their followers to enlightenment. I thought that aspect set them apart from the Goa'uld. And I'm hoping that Gerak's transformation isn't permanent, but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

TheObiJuan
September 16th, 2005, 08:46 PM
I thought Daniel may take few turns on the Ascending machine, so he could be kinda super human. That would have been cool.

khd
September 16th, 2005, 08:51 PM
I thought 'Prototype' was great and 'The Fourth Horseman: Part 1' was good except, except, except for Cameron Blight. He suuuuuucked as Orlin. No emotion at all. His performance totally took me out of the episode. I bought the whole "child" thing used to explain why Sean wasn't there, but they could have got someone better to do it. That just happens to be the way that I feel about it. What do you...oh wait, that's a quote, never mind.

greytop
September 16th, 2005, 08:52 PM
Orlin said that enough of them thought it was necessary....so I guess they just agreed to look the other way.I guess then he had volunteered to come, since he knew Sam.

FoolishPleasure
September 16th, 2005, 08:53 PM
I really enjoyed this episode - A grade from me. Both episodes just felt "right" - like the show finally hit on all cylinders.

But I now have to wait until January??? :S

Sprinkles
September 16th, 2005, 09:07 PM
Thought the Forth Horsemen was great and Prototype excellent.
The team was back together!
Really liking Bill Lee, great addition.
Nice to see Hammond and Bratac back again.

tony
September 16th, 2005, 09:12 PM
The only thing that bothered me about the episode was Gerek in a small way... going from beach head where he was trying to eliminate them to all of a sudden wanting to accept the ori was alil weird i thought.. HOWEVER I really loved the episode awesome absolutely awesome! i thought it was REALLY funny ( i cant believe no one caught this) when that Lt. from the under cover unit said he wanted a spong bath from Dr. Lam and the Col. said "better not say that around the General" and Col. Michtil said and def. not around me! Meaning because In REAL LIFE THATS HIS WIFE! that was funny!

SG1Poz
September 16th, 2005, 09:18 PM
The Fourth Horseman was'nt the worst mid season break but it wasn't the best IMHO. Ok, the world is about to be over run by an epidemic. So was there any mention of Jack since he's in charge of HomeWorld Security? Nothing, not a word. I really wonder about TPTB. Plus, I miss Jack :(


Poz

AGateFan
September 16th, 2005, 09:22 PM
The only thing that bothered me about the episode was Gerek in a small way... going from beach head where he was trying to eliminate them to all of a sudden wanting to accept the ori was alil weird i thought.. HOWEVER I really loved the episode awesome absolutely awesome! i thought it was REALLY funny ( i cant believe no one caught this) when that Lt. from the under cover unit said he wanted a spong bath from Dr. Lam and the Col. said "better not say that around the General" and Col. Michtil said and def. not around me! Meaning because In REAL LIFE THATS HIS WIFE! that was funny!
In real life shes Michael Shanks (Daniel) wife.

Traveler Enroute1
September 16th, 2005, 09:36 PM
A second episode, and a good one at that. Hooray for a glimpse of General Hammond! Hope he escaped unscathed.

Well, finally another word for Ori is EVIL. Yet another form of life suckers who favor the humans for sustenance. Apparently we're young but tasty. :rolleyes: Gerak has been to hell and come back with a toy and scar tissue. Nice inducement that will be to Jaffa! Nice that Gerak had a spark of doubt before taking the plunge; he was a rebel Jaffa after all.

More technoSam, never get enough of her! I thought it was a littlle tactless the way Landry brought up her connection to boy Orlin. And for Lam to chime in; badly done on both parts. Amanda Tapping played opposite the young actor well, showing how awkward this situation was while trying to treat him as an adult. What a twist for the two. I didn't immediately get that sepia/fuzzy shot as an Orlin pov; I think it was used in Prototype, just before Khalek throws Teal'c and soldiers against the wall. I think. I hope, as previously mentioned, that they find a way to not kill him off.

The explanation of the Ancients' aloofness from mankind was well explained. They do come across now as rather noble, choosing not to leech off their descendents. Not forgetting the debacle with Anubis, however; the Ancients allowed misery on an unfathomable scale in order to teach one of their own a lesson. A turnaround, of sorts?

Mostly liked the story's progression. The onset of the plague and race to contain it (fruitless) was directed well. Lam was featured for a change, in her element. She seems to have a solid medical research aspect, which now I think on it, Janet had, too. Dr. Lee, IMO, is still taking up Felger's space. Why oh why.

The cliffhanger is neat. So much info in this ep, as in the previous one. I feel like I'm going on a real cool and scary ride, and can't wait (although I must) for the rest.

I score this A. :D

Just sayin'.

Traveler Enroute1
September 16th, 2005, 09:41 PM
Just wondering why Spoiler tags are in use on this thread? It is for those who already saw the episode, is that right? I never read spoilers before seeing episodes, so seeing them here is too like looking at a cut-up newspaper.

Just asking if anyone would kindly clear this up for me.

Just sayin'.

cafine_us
September 16th, 2005, 09:47 PM
Just wondering why Spoiler tags are in use on this thread? It is for those who already saw the episode, is that right? I never read spoilers before seeing episodes, so seeing them here is too like looking at a cut-up newspaper.

Just asking if anyone would kindly clear this up for me.

Just sayin'.
Spoiler tags aren't necessary when discussing an episode on its thread, but some people use them anyway just to be safe.

DangerIsGo
September 16th, 2005, 09:48 PM
Does anyone know the name of the song that Dr Lee is listening to during the ep in which hes looking for certain frequencies? Im really into metal and would like to know what song that was. Sam said Dark Pariah, but I did a search for them and I got what sounds like some kids band. It couldnt have been them. If anyone got the name of the real band or song or even some song lyrics, that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Arative
September 16th, 2005, 09:58 PM
The whole scene in the beginning with the Lam comment was stupid. Who cares if someone makes a joke about her giving someone a spongue bath? And why would Mitch care?? I don't care!

Mitchell absolutely did the right thing in telling those two to STFU. Lam should have thier respect because one these days, she might be saving thier lives. And of course the whole sexual harrassment thing. I'm sure when your at work, you wouldn't want someone making some crude comment like that about you and the boss doing nothing about it. I thought the entire episode that Mitchell showed some good leadership ability, taking charge of things.

Anyway, I enjoyed the episode. We got to learn more backstory between the Alterans and the Ori. And the Daniel's question about why the Ori do what they do was answered. Also the answer the why the Alterans don't interfere in our plane of exsistence as well as the Alterans believe there are higher levels of ascension.

I liked Gerak, he almost swallowed the belief of Origin hook, line, and sinker but balked at killing fellow Jaffa, showed that he at least had some sort of conscience, when push came to shove, he couldn't kill his fellow Jaffa. Of course the Ori realized that Gerak was thier key to power in the milkway and took away his free will by making him a prior.

It was nice to see Orlin again, even if it wasn't the original actor, helps tie in the rest of the series with past story lines. Of course I think he is going to die and ascend again but I'd prefer him not to ascend to show that his sacrafice was very real.

And it was great to see Hammond again!! I really wasn't expecting that. He wasn't wearing his uniform, so I assume that he was retired or maybe working with the Hayes administration in some sort of cabinet job? I think Landry is doing a good job, he's starting to grow on me now, just like Hammond did. I didn't like Hammond the first couple of episodes either.

ToasterOnFire
September 16th, 2005, 10:04 PM
Does anyone know the name of the song that Dr Lee is listening to during the ep in which hes looking for certain frequencies? Im really into metal and would like to know what song that was. Sam said Dark Pariah, but I did a search for them and I got what sounds like some kids band. It couldnt have been them. If anyone got the name of the real band or song or even some song lyrics, that would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
It's possible that the song was by Rob Zombie. Just had that feel to it. Can't give you an album or song title though, sorry.

cafine_us
September 16th, 2005, 10:05 PM
Joe Mallozzi or someone said Hammond retired and is serving as an adviser to President Hayes. As a civilian, he'd wear a suit.

TheObiJuan
September 16th, 2005, 10:11 PM
The only thing that bothered me about the episode was Gerek in a small way... going from beach head where he was trying to eliminate them to all of a sudden wanting to accept the ori was alil weird i thought.. HOWEVER I really loved the episode awesome absolutely awesome! i thought it was REALLY funny ( i cant believe no one caught this) when that Lt. from the under cover unit said he wanted a spong bath from Dr. Lam and the Col. said "better not say that around the General" and Col. Michtil said and def. not around me! Meaning because In REAL LIFE THATS HIS WIFE! that was funny!

She is married to Michael Shanks.

Samuel J. Tilden
September 16th, 2005, 10:52 PM
I wasn't particularly thrilled by this episode but it had a few moments. Hearing Hammond's voice again was wonderful even if it was just a cameo. I miss the guy.

Young Orlin was a bit of an oddity. I thought that he was reasonably well cast, but I've yet to see any good reason for bringing him back especially in an episode with so much going on already.

The comments directed toward Doc Lam seemed highly inappropriate (can you imagine a similar scene written back when Frasier was still around?). I guess they need more sex appeal on the show now that Vala's gone and Carter's, well, old.

It looks like they're continuing the Iraq parallels in the Jaffa story-arc with the Ori religion threatening to undermine the new government (not unlike the theocratic designs of certain Shi'ite elements). A Jaffa Civil War seems inevitable, and I look forward to it much more than the interminable council chamber scenes.

In all, I liked this one more than the last two mid-season finales.

lazerbrain
September 16th, 2005, 11:12 PM
I really liked this episode and the one before it. I thought this was the first time this season that things were coming together.

Here's my problem. Shouldn't this episosde be called the Second Horseman? This episode was about the plague coming to Earth. If I remember my Revolulations correctly, Plague or Pestilance is the second horseman of the Apocolypse. I think the four in order are famine, pestilance, was, and death. Maybe this is a little foreshadowing about what will happen in part 2.

Thoughts?

Kliggins
September 16th, 2005, 11:30 PM
I liked this episode; didn't love it, but it kept my interest; and I haven't been able to say that for a while. :)

majorsal
September 16th, 2005, 11:52 PM
More technoSam, never get enough of her! I thought it was a littlle tactless the way Landry brought up her connection to boy Orlin. And for Lam to chime in; badly done on both parts.



that part of the episode i *hated*. it completely implied that a 'sexual' relationship happened between sam and orlin in season 5's ascension. that's news to me! :( yes, i'm an s/j shipper, so it disappointed me to no end.... :(



sally :(

Seastallion
September 16th, 2005, 11:56 PM
I liked this episode... but (grrrrr) I hate cliff hangers..! Oh, well though. From what I hear, the final episode of the season is also going to be a cliffhanger so...

The explanation about the Ori's followers actually makes some sense. In real life, the ancients used to believe that the more followers a particular god had, the more powerful that god was. It seems that the writers decided to follow an 'ancient' ideal in this regard. ;)

the dancer of spaz
September 17th, 2005, 12:41 AM
OK, I haven't read the thread...
The episode started off really well - and then had moments where all I could do was raise an eyebrow a la Teal'c.

The shallow side of me liked to see Daniel and Cameron walk down the hall in gym gear, chatting it up. Cam's smelling of the armpit was disgusting and yet hilarious. I smiled at his complete lack of couth there. :D

Then there were the scenes with Dr. Lee and Carter. I thought those were funny and telling of their relationship - especially the "Good analogy" scene. ;) It was great, because I was really beginning to wonder if they even liked each other. Good stuff.

Everything was going great. They had Gerak doing his thing with Crazy Prior #1, and you could see that he was kinda wimping out. He almost completely redeemed himself until that final act did him in. Lou Gossett actually sold me on his performance this episode. I'm not a hard sell or anything, but I think I was liking Gerak a lot more this time around than EVERY other time combined.

And then they did it.

Strike 1: They reinforced the Cam/Lam ship concept. With an inappropriate, unprofessional and unnecessary joke. Oy...

Still I was prepared to get over it. They redeemed it by having good ol' Hammond show up for a ceremony. I was close to forgetting all about it.

But that wasn't enough.

Strike 2, 3, 4, 5 & 6: Someone - everyone - brought up Sam and Orlin's "intimate relationship." Twice. Three times.

I gotta tell ya, my blood pressure was so high after that scene with Sam, Lam and Landry in the observation room, that I literally had to rewind the following scenes a couple of times to fully get over it. :o You may think I'm kidding, but know that I'm not.

The cafeteria scene - though mildly humorous - would have been my undoing, if it wasn't for the fact that the SURROUNDING scenes weren't offensive. ;)

I'm sorry. I watched Birth several months ago. And I'm still scarred.

Anyway, the premise of having the entire country under quarantine is pretty neat. Others may disagree, but I think that this sort of issue is so large-scale and rather plausible, that it's hard to deny the chaos that this would be creating for the US. The cover story won't be good enough for civilians, and the other nations are gonna be REALLY ticked that this happened. The SGC (and subsequently Landry) is gonna get its butt thoroughly kicked when this thing finally blows over.

AT mentioned in a recent interview that she and BBridges were still working out their characters' relationship, and that's becoming more and more apparent. Between "Prototype" and "TFH1," I see Landry as being the least patient of the three - most likely due to their lack of a pre-existing relationship. Whatever the reasons, the awkwardness between them, if it's intentional, is so annoying that it's actually good.

In case you haven't guessed, I'm kinda wishing Orlin had never showed up again. :( However, with his health issues, it'll be interesting to see how the second part pans out.

To me, Lam and Landry won points in "Prototype," but this episode further cemented my appreciation for them now. Lam's completely sold me, and Landry only has a bit left to go. "TFH2" should do the trick. ;)

More Teal'c please! Yay for Bra'tac coming back! Hammond and Bra'tac back in one episode (a two-parter, no less) can only mean good things. :D

It was a decent cliffhanger, and I'll definitely be tuning in for the conclusion in January. However, in the future, if they could stop bringing in Sam's past suitors and let her run around a bit more with her P90, that would be FANTASTIC. :)

lethalfang
September 17th, 2005, 12:56 AM
I liked that Gerak faltered when it came to attacking Chulak. It shows he does have some semblence of a conscience. However, he was very creepy as a prior!!


I can't help but think that, this hesitation in attacking Chulak is a setup to have Garek switch side once again in Part 2.

JanusAncient
September 17th, 2005, 01:08 AM
Orlin is not going to die, he probably will, but he will recover from his illnesswe have screencaps of him visiting the Sodan planet, he watches a wounded Prior, defenseless on the groundI know the Ancients can seem cold, I really hope that they will not allow one of their own to just die. That part with Gerak at the end was just freaky, I thought we weren't going to see him as a Prior, until second installment, but when he walked through that door, it was like the Jaffa are really screwed now.

Fascinating, Thoth, ancient Egyptian scribe, god, enlightened being, amongst many others, have said that Gods can feed on the positivity of their subjects. This is truly great, what will happen in the upcoming episodes, that has yet to be spoiled, will be spectacular, spectacular, the stuff really does have my interest peaked.

Schrodinger82
September 17th, 2005, 02:54 AM
So the Ancients decide to leave out the communication device in order to uphold free will -- then decide "Whoopse! If the Ori convert everyone, it'll be very bad for everyone" after the fact.

Way to go, Ancients. It looks like you guys really thought this one though.

mindfire
September 17th, 2005, 05:59 AM
I liked this episode and I'm glad they started to explain who the Ori are, and the reason they do what they do.

brisk
September 17th, 2005, 06:11 AM
Did anyone else notice the Doci stock footage? ;)

Jace021903
September 17th, 2005, 06:41 AM
I liked The Fourth Horseman, not as much as Prototype but it was good.

I liked the opening scene with Daniel and Mitchell doing guy stuff--ewww on sniffing. :D

I don't know about that whole sponge bath remark--inside joke since MS was in the scene? or trying to set up Cam/Lam (who named these people :p). Don't know, but the scene was odd. Good for Cam though to call them on the inappropriateness.

Bra'tac--yay! Hammond--double yay!! What is Hammond's job now? My husband thought he was the new VP, but I didn't think so.

I thought young Orlin's actor did a good job, but I was squicked by the cafeteria scene, but then Sam seemed to be too. Ewww.


Teal'c rocks! Garak is prior?! I didn't read spoilers this time so it surprised me.

Loved the scene when Daniel and Cam got caught by the Soden--Cam developed some good reflexes. They must already know he is still alive since that wounded Jaffa went back home; I wonder what happened to the brother that lied about it.

Lam was good in this. She is slowly thawing toward her father.

I like Landry more each week.


All in all, a solid episode. Bring on part 2.

Jace

SierraGulf1
September 17th, 2005, 06:45 AM
This is why I love SG-1. I needn't state my recent opinions about the show in general at the moment, as I clearly expressed my love for this new direction in the Prototype thread. So instead, I'll jsut shut up and do my usual episode evaluation.
--------------------------------------------
SierraGulf's Evalutation of SG-1 9.10: The Fourth Horseman, Part 1

Whenever there are two parters, the second part is usually better than the first (as was true with Reckoning, Moebius, Children of the Gods, Avalon, Evolution, Small Victories, etc, etc). If that's the case, then The Fourth Horseman Part 2 is going to be spectacular! Tonight's sci-fi Friday was the best in a long time, and it was pure SG-1 (I love Atlantis too, though, and look forward to next week).

I love the idea of a plague, and I've known Gerak would become a Prior since the screenshots came out, but I didn't expect to see him there yet. What a plesant and creepy, unsettling surprise!

Since this is called the Fourth Horseman, I take it that war and death will follow in the next episode. It looks like (Part 2 spoiler) Landry gets affected and so we'll see the plague hit close to home. I'm just glad that good ole' George is safe and sound, though I would have liked to see him interact with SG-1. Ah well, it was still excellent.

Without any further ado...

Mitchell did what Jack probably would have done just as good as Jack would have done it: He tried to contain the virus. As a matter of fact, Jack did this in Sight Unseen, but they were able to contain it before it got released so far. This time, people's lives are at stake. I liked Mitchell as usual, and it's too bad he couldn't contain the damn virus. The fact that he kicked some Sodan ass before getting cornered instead of just dropping his weapon was a nice touch reflecting moments from Babylon. What will become of him and Daniel?

Carter is the woman that we haven't seen since Season Six, with no Pete or cravings for Jack holding her down. She is a strong, intelligent woman and I liked her interactions with Orlin in this episode. Amanda Tapping is a great actress, and I feared for her after her minimal inclusion since her return. Prototype and Fourth Horseman changed that.

Daniel wasn't around much, but the first five episodes and Prototype quite make up for that. You can't always have em all, I guess.

Teal'c has been hit hard. I feel that more people will follow him and Bra'tac when they see that Gerak has made this rash decision, while others will follow Gerak, making it a truly even civil war (the third horseman). Teal'c has given it his all in trying to help the Jaffa, and now it is his responsibility to take up his weapon and fight for the freedom of the Jaffa again, once again brother killing brother. Oh mah, oh mah.

Landry was great as usual. He sold me back in Beachhead, but he just continues to impress me. He knows what he's doing and he knows how to deal with an out of control crisis, I just hope to God that he beats it. Too bad (Part 2 spoilers) he'll catch the plague. Bah humbug, who'll run the SGC?.

Lam, like in Prototype, managed to not piss me off, but she has a while to go before I like her. It'll take time, at least six episodes like Landry. :p

Orlin was cast decently in this episode, although Sean Patrick Flannery would have been welcome. Cameron Blight did okay though, and it made for some interesting interactions, mainly with Sam. I hope he doesn't die.

Dr. Lee is kind of turning into Felger for me, but I still found his interactions with Sam quite funny in this episode. I don't mind seeing more of him.

Gerak, you traitorous *******! I saw it coming because I spoiled myself, but at least now I don't have to put it in spoiler tags (at least not everywhere). I like how they portrayed Gerak's inner-conflict, and how he left the Jaffa be. This was his best episode yet, though I had hoped he'd lose the Kirk voice upon changing. Oh well, I think that's the way Lou talks.

Hammond didn't get much action, oh well, nice to see Don Davis again, it's been a whole month since the NJ Con, after all.

Current order of quality:

Prototype
The Fourth Horseman, Part 1
Avalon, Part 2
The Powers That Be
Beachhead
Origin
Ex Deus Machina
Avalon, Part 1
Babylon
The Ties That Bind
--------------------------------------------------
No more SG-1 till January. :( And in that time I have to get my wisdom teeth out on a Friday, with nothing to lighten up my day that night. Ah well, I'll have my Season 9 tapes and 1-8 DVDs. Until January, SG-1. :)

As for Atlantis, one more week, and then Sci-Fi Friday is truly over.

rac76
September 17th, 2005, 07:00 AM
Overall I really enjoyed watching last night's episode. The only problem I had is the fact that they allowed the virus to spread like wildfire. But if that didn't happen there wouldn't be a show to watch come next January!!

I think that Gerak is a two timing....you can fill in the blanks! I really hoped that the Jaffa get a clue and not follow the Ori. I was crept out by the interaction between Sam and Orlin, but again its just a show. That is what the writers want. I like the fact that Daniel and Mitchell were playing basketball, it showed that they have a friendship building outside of working together.

Oh, it was very nice to see General Hammond, if only for a brief moment. I was hoping for more interaction between him and SG1, I was waiting and waiting for it, but I'll take the brief moment. Its better then nothing!

Overall I give it a B+/A-... can't wait for January!

Yeah for my 100 post! :D

Traveler Enroute1
September 17th, 2005, 07:28 AM
majorsal:that part of the episode i *hated*. it completely implied that a 'sexual' relationship happened between sam and orlin in season 5's ascension. that's news to me! yes, i'm an s/j shipper, so it disappointed me to no end....

My view, ditto. The implication and voicing it in that way and space, way uncool.

Just sayin'.

eve11
September 17th, 2005, 07:51 AM
I too liked this episode a lot. Perhaps I have a sick and twisted sense of humor, but I thought that scene where Landry asked sam about an "intimate" relationship was pretty darn funny. "Well, he didn't look like that!", lol. And her uncomfortable-ness in the cafeteria when poor Orlin couldn't figure out which were his thoughts and what he was saying out loud. The look on her face was priceless. But can I just say, let's bring in some strange female aliens who fall into some strange idea of "love" with male leads next please?

I loved that Cameron finally had something to do! Yay! But I hate hate hate the idea of Mitchell/Lam ship, so I was kinda underwhelmed by the end of the first scene. Ugh. Then again, I'm pretty much anti-ship in any form for Stargate... I just feel it's not a romance-y show and adding that into the mix is just not the right formula. I fully believe people can have deep and interesting friendships (daresay love?) without a romantic relationship. SG1 has always been about the team for me, and the adventures they share. Any romantic relationship is going to mess with that dynamic.

I liked Daniel and Mitchell's interaction at the beginning (before the whole sexual harrassment -- possible ship thing) because it was an interesting character point, and because it was something that you absolutely would not see happening with Jack there instead of Cameron. Cameron takes up some of the snark (omg, "Ascend-O-meter" lol!), but that scene (moreso than the talking heads table scenes) reinforces that he's really not a Jack clone. That said, I also really liked the "Trust me, 'Prior gun' would've gone over better" line. And loved the scene with the Sodan at the end. Mitchell put up a good fight but still was overpowered -- because they were ambushed and outnumbered. Having him completely win in that situation would've been too superheroic. One nitpick, Cameron said he spent "two weeks" with these guys. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it two months? I guess I'm a minority here in that I really liked Babylon a lot, but I remember thinking, "in six weeks he's got to have tried to use the transporter device by now!"

Speaking of Priors, I was not spoiled by any images beforehand, and when I saw Gerak wavering, trying to reason with the prior, I finally felt they were bringing his character some more depth. "Gerak is many things, but he is not a fool" says Bra'tac. Could've frickin' fooled me! He seemed pretty foolish up until now. Or at least one-dimensional. So when the prior took him back to the other galaxy I was like, "You better not make him a prior! He was just starting to get interesting!" But they did! Bah :( I still hold out hope that he will be somehow redeemed. And, while I've never been a fan of the Teal'c-centric Jaffa episodes in the past, I'm actually warming up to the Dakara stuff.

Orlin came across as a bit of a deus ex machina, as someone earlier in the thread had noted. When you've got the big Ori guns, the SGC is going to need some help, sure. But I agree that they need to restore some balance. Why not have Sam and the Earth Scientists figure out how to make the gun on their own? Why not have some good old scientific know-how be used to find a cure? I don't think it makes the enemy less scary, and it also gives the ever-increasing fantastical nature of the show a good grounding. And like Scully from the X-files, it's absolutely needed. Also, yes, Orlin was an interesting idea and yes, through him we learned a lot, but it would have been more engaging for me if the SGC could have found this stuff out on their own. It's a question of "show vs. tell", and if you have a choice between them, choose "show"! That said, I'm very glad the Ori's sinister ulterior motives have finally been made known. I would like gray areas for Gerak, but not for the big bads. Interesting though, that the Priors aren't in on it.

As I said, despite the nitpicks above, I really enjoyed this episode and can't wait to see the next one!

I'll end with some total squeeing: Hammond!!!! Yay!!! OMG don't kill him!!! Whew, he didn't touch the virus guy! Yay!!!!

bmicales
September 17th, 2005, 08:58 AM
After viewing the fight scene on the Sodan planet, I think this is one time that Daniel should have listened to Mitchell. Whether you like it or not, Mitchell has MUCH more experience with the Sodan (understanding their fighting methods and too a small degree their culture). Therefore, his statement of "having nothing to worry about" is based on this experience.

If fact, watch the "ambush" frame by frame and you will see:

1) Daniel and the other members of the SG team are easily disarmed
2) Only Mitchell was able to but up an effect defense whereas the others were quickly subdued
3) Even if you had your weapon "at the ready" - Like Daniel - it had no effect on the final outcome (see point 1). In fact had Daniel actually killed (not sure about wounding - it is still "spilling a warrior's blood") any of the Sodan warriors, the situation would have been much, much worse - (i.e. Babylon)

This is not to excuse mistakes made by Mitchell in other episodes, but it does point to the fact, that Mitchell can and apply what he has learned.

Bruce

Mio
September 17th, 2005, 09:22 AM
except for Cameron Blight. He suuuuuucked as Orlin. No emotion at all. His performance totally took me out of the episode. I bought the whole "child" thing used to explain why Sean wasn't there, but they could have got someone better to do it. That just happens to be the way that I feel about it. What do you...oh wait, that's a quote, never mind.

Well, Orlin did spend hundreds of years isolated on a planet. He's only been into the fold for a few years. I think he'd still be suffering from a few personality issues. Also, can't forget the brain damage!

FoolishPleasure
September 17th, 2005, 09:57 AM
I stayed away from any spoilers or pics so the Gerak as Prior ending was one of those, OMG :eek: moments, which was very cool. Fun to be "spoiler free" sometimes. ;)

I've complained before that the whole Jaffa movement arc was getting stale, but this episode opens doors for it to go in a whole different direction - and give Teal'c much more to do. Go writers!

As for the potential Mitchell/Lam "ship" rumors. No, no, no, pretty please! We are just starting to know Mitchell, and while I'm starting to like Lam, she still isn't Janet, so I don't really want any romo between those two. Don't think it would really fly with the fans. IMO.

Landry continues to really impress - he's almost up there with Hammond, not quite. .but close! This was the character that worried me in the beginning, but Beau Bridges continues to make this a very strong and interesting character.

SierraGulf1
September 17th, 2005, 10:06 AM
The next new SG-1 episode we see will have the full length opening! :)

AGateFan
September 17th, 2005, 10:21 AM
The next new SG-1 episode we see will have the full length opening! :)
YIPPEEEEE,, HURRAAAAYYYY,, WOOOOOTTTTTT,, AWESOME.
I dont know how to correctly display my happyness about getting the opening back. I mean it really seems like a small thing but I have missed it tremendously. Nothing made me think about that more then the best eps marathon when the credits ran then. Theres just "something" missing without the correct opening.

langdonboom
September 17th, 2005, 10:42 AM
I thought the kid was good! He was doing a great impression of SPF from the earlier ep, in the creepy, slightly inflected tone of voice. I loved him, personally.

keppiezbt
September 17th, 2005, 11:26 AM
These two epsidoes were great. protype was the best of the season followed by this episode.

I too think Orlin will die. I liekd how orlin told the story of the ori, why they do what they do, and why the ancients don't get involved. I also liked it when he said that they sent him back b/c if the ori won in this galaxy, it would be bad for everyone. I thought that was a good little twist and gave more understanding about the ascended realm.

This episode was more carter focused and it was great to see her in action. Wished we saw more of daniel, good to see mitchell and action.

I thought the way they played gerak was great. He had a lot of depth this episode. The way he struggled with his decision made it seem more "real"

veneticuss
September 17th, 2005, 11:35 AM
Weeell, yet another life sucking enemy.I kinda have a feeling, i've contradict this kind of enemy sometime before....

Giantevilhead
September 17th, 2005, 12:23 PM
I wonder why they didn't go to Khalek's planet and use Anubis's genetic manipulation technology to find a cure for the virus.

wolverine_nl
September 17th, 2005, 12:58 PM
I wonder why they didn't go to Khalek's planet and use Anubis's genetic manipulation technology to find a cure for the virus.
I don't think that the answer of an Orii virus would be in a Lab of Anubis, It doesn't contain all the knowledge of the ancients. If it did, then Daniel and Teal'c would've take longer to search the database in that lab, and they did that twice.

I really like were this is going with S9 :D

I also like the part where Dr. Lee says something like he finally gets some acknowlegment or something, and you hear somewhere in the back someone (non of the castmembers in frame) say something like :"Sure Bill!" referring to Dr. Lee (played by "Bill" Dow.
:D

Mio
September 17th, 2005, 01:13 PM
Orlin said that he knew what he had to make, but that he didn't have any of the proper tools or materials.

Well. Isn't the answer obvious? Atlantis. I realize they want to keep the shows seperate, but they shouldn't do things that have the obvious solution of contacting Atlantis. (Which Orlin probably could have done with some spare parts from an air conditioner)

cafine_us
September 17th, 2005, 01:17 PM
Unfortunately, it would take a couple weeks for the Daedalus to get to Atlantis, and we don't really have that much time. Eight have died already. Atlantis might not have anything useful anyway.

Mio
September 17th, 2005, 01:18 PM
Unfortunately, it would take a couple weeks for the Daedalus to get to Atlantis, and we don't really have that much time. Eight have died already. Atlantis might not have anything useful anyway.

I editted my post as you wrote that. If O'Neill could build a power source out of a staff weapon power cell, I'm sure Orlin could have thought of something.

And even if Atlantis didn't have exactly what Orlin needed, they definetly would have had tools more advanced and better suited to designing a cure.

veneticuss
September 17th, 2005, 02:08 PM
I editted my post as you wrote that. If O'Neill could build a power source out of a staff weapon power cell, I'm sure Orlin could have thought of something.

And even if Atlantis didn't have exactly what Orlin needed, they definetly would have had tools more advanced and better suited to designing a cure.
I agree,there was surely at least one lab that studied some viruses, so, surely some tools and other stuff could be useful

warmbeachbrat
September 17th, 2005, 02:31 PM
I thought 'Prototype' was great and 'The Fourth Horseman: Part 1' was good except, except, except for Cameron Blight. He suuuuuucked as Orlin. No emotion at all. His performance totally took me out of the episode. I bought the whole "child" thing used to explain why Sean wasn't there, but they could have got someone better to do it. That just happens to be the way that I feel about it. What do you...oh wait, that's a quote, never mind.

I agree--I thought he was just terrible. Kinda creepy, too! Especially when you realize he did a similar turn in that movie with Nicole Kidman. Poor kid! I hope he's not typecast. You're right--the explanation was good, the acting was bad.

SierraGulf1
September 17th, 2005, 04:02 PM
I thought he was okay, but I haven't watched Ascension in a while.

I just watched my third viewing of it, I love how Avalon 2, TPTB, and TFH1 end, what with Priors popping up and the credits starting to role with creepy music.

I also loved the Administrator in this one. At first the Priors seemed like empty, blank slates, but that dude was pissed when Gerak refused to end Chulak!

White Knight
September 17th, 2005, 04:23 PM
A good solid episode. Not as intense as Prototype, but it had a good story, good acting from regulars and guests (though Bright was a little too wooden), nice info on the nature of the Ori and Alterans (I wasn't expecting the Ori to be killing their followers), and that great little fight with Mitchell and the Sodan - and what a cliffhanger! Can't wait to see the conclusion. 8 out of 10.

I've also been thinking about why the Ori, already ascended, need more power from their followers (and I apologise if someone already covered this, but there's a lot of posts to read)...perhaps, if enough people in the Milky Way galaxy converted, the Ori would be powerful enough to defeat the Ancients and rule the universe?

Pharaoh Atem
September 17th, 2005, 04:41 PM
love the music at the end and i wonder if the ori did this to us on purpose there know there can't go though the our gate so there infect one of the members of the sgc and kill us all beucase we will never believe in them

AGateFan
September 17th, 2005, 04:52 PM
love the music at the end and i wonder if the ori did this to us on purpose there know there can't go though the our gate so there infect one of the members of the sgc and kill us all beucase we will never believe in them
Actually they probably would find quite a few followers on earth if they ever got here. Maybe they should ask Gerek if they can borrow a ship.

Scarym1
September 17th, 2005, 07:11 PM
All things we've speculated on. Which makes their "big catch" not all that surprising...not that I mind. I couldn't see them going in any other direction.

It's nice to have so many answers. Now we can start more speculation. I begin to see more clearly the anti-religious themes others were talking about.

I really like this ep. I agree that having some many answers was nice. I like how they explained how Orlin had to come back as a kid.

I don't see this as anti-religion. I see it as anti-fanaticism/anti extremism(sp). I think that freedom to believe as one chooses is a big theme in Stargate. That to kill someone just because they don't believe as you do is wrong. I think Garek was beginning to see the light on that but by then it was too late for him.

Love the Dr. Lee and Sam scenes in the lab. He is doing all this talking and she isn't even listening. Then Dr. Lee saying he is still waiting for the day that he gets some respect around here and Daniel says he is still waiting for that day. ;) Then he sniffs Dr. Lee's coffee. What did he expect to find there?

I like the beginning with Daniel and Mitchell walking down the hall and chatting after their Basketball game. I thought Mitchell's defends of Dr. Lam after that rude comment about a sponge bath was a very admirable thing to do. Nothing shippy at all. Just good manners. I guess you could say that Mitchell is an officer and a gentleman. :)

Loved the rest of the ep. It was great to see Hammond. For a moment I thought TPTB were going to kill him. I almost shouted out loud "NOOOOO" I hope we get to see more of him.

I don't think Orlin will die. I think he will just lose all his memories of his life including his past with Sam. Then he will be adopted by a family with a proper security clearance. Just like what they did with Mini Jack.

No new eps until January. :( I guess I will just have to make do with getting to watch the first half of S9 again (on bigger TV scene) when it finally starts to air here in Canada on November 10.

Droops
September 17th, 2005, 07:22 PM
I really enjoyed this for a couple of reasons.

One, the Ori background is critical. We now have a good reason to fight and weapons to do it.

Two, all of our old characters! If Janet weren't dead I bet we'd have had her as well. Good to see everyone again.

Gerak is a great character who has the possibility either of being really evil, or of real redemption. His character can go a long way in all of this.

Did anyone else catch the mention of FURTHER evolving? I think that there is an even higher plane of existence and that whoever is there will step into this at some point.

Energy, yummmmmmmm :)

chiefchucky
September 17th, 2005, 08:25 PM
I liked this episode....but I have a few complaints.
1st- orlin the kid suuuuuuuucked!!!(If Sean wasn't available they could have made up a new character)
2nd-The stock shot of the warlock dude who played Doci was incredibly tack beyond belief(they could have left him out entirely if the actor wasn't available)

However I did like this ep. I liked seeing Cam use his sodon martial arts training. I liked seeing Hammond again and the twist at the end was soooooooooooooo awesome!

jyh
September 17th, 2005, 08:32 PM
The comments directed toward Doc Lam seemed highly inappropriate (can you imagine a similar scene written back when Frasier was still around?). I guess they need more sex appeal on the show now that Vala's gone and Carter's, well, old.



EXCUSE ME??? You're referring to Sam Carter (and Amanda Tapping) as "old"??? I beg to differ. Just because she's not a 23-year-old Playboy model doesn't mean she's OLD. I would think that only an immature 18-year-old would think of her as over the hill. :S Personally, I think women in their 30s and even 40s are looking better than ever these days. (Otherwise Desperate Housewives wouldn't be as popular as it is.... for some inexplicable reason.) As for Stargate's 'sex appeal' factor, Carter is Air Force, and she (thankfully) dresses in regulation fatigues. (I'm glad she no longer wears the cheesy tank-top she wore last season.)

I thought this was a good episode, lots of new intel & a good set-up for upcoming episodes. As for the sponge bath incident.... I can't believe so many people are reading so much into this. Colonel Mitchell heard a junior officer make a derogatory, disrespectful comment about a senior member of the SGC. It was his DUTY to reprimand Fisher. Maybe the writers added that scene to fan the flames of speculation they know exist about the Cam/Lam relationship. (Personally, I hope they don't go that route... I want to keep all soap-opera elements out of this show!)

Question: Daniel asked Orlin Lite why the Ancients allowed him to 'descend' without wiping out his memory. Yet the second time HE descended, Daniel's memory was intact. I don't think that was ever explained, was it?

The scene in the lab when Sam said "I was so close" and a vioce said "I know," was HILARIOUS. Once again, we had to pause the episode, we were laughing so hard. I knew Orlin would be appearing, but it was so out of the blue, it was great.

I too wondered what band/song Dr. Lee was listening to. Sounded techno to me.

Lastly, the Gerak-turning-into-a-prior thing was interesting... I didn't see that coming! I do wonder though... does being a prior automatically give you skin problems? Just sayin'....

golfbooy
September 17th, 2005, 09:05 PM
Damn two episodes in one night making me write two of these things in one day. I must be a pretty big Stargate fan. Stargate nutcase. OK, just nutcase. But I'm getting help, really. I am. I swear.

Yet again, in incredible definace of the laws of nature, Sci-fi continues to find new and innovative ways to bungle with SG-1. The Fourth Horseman is a fine episode and deserves far more praise than it's likely to garner after this showing. Sci-fi's decision to air it coupled with Prototype is bound to invite unfair comparisons between the two, and fans are far more likely to feel that the story with an actual resolution was more interesting, more well-told. Such is life.

Like Prototype, there's not much to complain about here. Being Part I, this episode's job is to set up conflict and inform the viewer of all the information necessary for a kick ass resolution. Here's hoping Part II lives up to the task.

And before anything else, I'm gonna get through with Orlin. I've never liked the character. For the better part of five years or so now I've been astounded as to how so many fans have liked him. How they've adored him. How they didn't find him creepy as hell in Ascension. Well, let me ask ya, how do you feel now? So he's been "watching" Sam from some nebulous higher plane of existence for who knows how long, eh? So he's still in love with her, eh? So he's looking forward to more "intimate" contact with her in a few years, eh? Still not creepy, eh? All that being said, it was nice to see Sam's discomfort with the situation as well.

I'm relatively unimpressed by Cameron Bright's performance. Whereas Sean Patrick Flannery's Orlin came across as timid and meek (or gentle and sensitive, depending on who you ask), Bright was just flat. There's no denying that the kid had a difficult task. He had to emmulate a previous actor's interpretation of the character, he had to portray a character much older than he is himself, and he had to deal with the whole "I love Carter" bit. Throw in the massive amount of exposition and technobabble the part required and it's unsurprising that things turned out as they did. But it does make you appreciate the fine job Amanda Tapping and Michael Shanks do when they have to explain something. They actually make it seem interesting and important.

Lou Gossett gives his best performance in Stargate to date. His portrayal of a conflicted Gerak who eventually turns to the Ori is nuanced and moving. It's believable to see Gerak struggle with his own personal certainty of the situation, despite whatever outward appearance he gives the other Jaffa. I'm sure there's more to come in that regard, even after his becoming a Prior. After all, SG-1 has always been, by and large, a story of redemptions. It would be peculiar if Gerak didn't receive a measure of it himself before all things are said and done. And apparently all he really needed to become a force in the story was a scene or two with Bra'tac.

Which brings me to my next point. NEVER KILL BRA'TAC. EVER. I don't care what kind of sublime purpose it would serve, I don't care what kind of payoff for the story it leads to. Tony Amendola has been paying big, huge dividends for SG-1 since he was first cast way back in season one. His appearance here, as always, lends weight to whatever scene he's in. It illustrates the urgency and importance of Gerak's proposal to the council, and it gives both Gerak and Teal'c the foil they need to articulate their positions to the audience. Bra'tac is the figure who makes the Jaffa's plight three-dimensional, he's the Jaffa's nobility. And Tony Amendola always does a wonderful job of convincing me that he's every bit as strong and necessary as Teal'c. So, again, NEVER KILL BRA'TAC.

General Landry gets some heavy screentime in this episode, as does Dr. Lam. Both do little more than move the story along, but their relationship gives their scenes a tinge of something more than pure expostition. It's nice to see the SGC fleshed out a bit after its contraction over the last couple of seasons. Again, three-dimensionality is a good thing for every aspect of the story, even the SGC program itself.

Daniel doesn't get much. He's there to fill out scenes, throw in a word or two edgewise, but aside from that he simply doesn't have a role to play in this one yet. That's OK, especially given how this season began. There's really not room to give everyone something substantial in every episode (see Teal'c about that), and this time it was Daniel. As above, such is life.

Carter gets to play with Orlin. How unfortuante for her. While her past with the character makes it necessary, it also restricts her from taking a more active role against the plague's outbreak. As Orlin puts it, she only seems to "keep him company". Well, that and explain exactly what's going on with Orlin. Nice bits with her and Dr. Lee, and nicely done with glossing over her past feelings for Orlin (whatever they may have been). Focusing rather on how she feels now, how she's rather uncomfortable with the situation and maybe even uncomfortable with what previously transpired between them, is the right way for the story to go. Here's hoping for more of the same in Part II .

I saved Mitchell for last, because he's got me buggered again. I like the character. He's a good addition to the Stargate universe. But his involvment in this story was, as previously, largely as an individual. I get that the members of SG-1 know him. That much was told to us by the producers long before the season began. And that's what it looks like, with Daniel and he playing basketball and with his good natured ribbing of Sam. But when it comes time for Cam to do something he's off on his own again, coordinating the SGC's interests with the CDC and telling us how things are progressing with the spread of the virus. And when he finally gets to go off world to the Sodan planet, it's only with Daniel. Continued sidestepping of the leadership aspect of Cam's role is sure to be expected in the second half of the season. SG-me indeed.

Finally, and I've probably got my hopes up for nothing, but I'm desperate for Jaffa Civil War. It's their fault, they gave me the hope. And while the Jaffa Council has been realistically portrayed, it has proven realistically boring. The Jaffa are much more interesting, much more dynamic when at odds with each other. And I think that such a turn would be in keeping with the realism of their situation. Most revolutions such as the one the Jaffa have undergone lead to more revolutions. So here's hoping. And here's hoping that when Part II airs all of the disparate elements of the story come together in one place. Daniel and Mitchell with the Sodan, Carter and Orlin with the cure, and Teal'c and Gerak with the Jaffa, if done well, should produce a memorable confluence of events. If we ever get SG-1 all together in one place, that is.

Bring on Part II. Damn hiatus.

epcrules89
September 17th, 2005, 09:13 PM
well i was just finishing up a different thead post when i realized.......we can help orlin ascend again!! why dont we go bak to khalek's planet and put him in the machine to help him ascend again? and for those of you who say"he should already be able to because hes already ascended once" u r misled. orlin had help from another ancient to ascend so his mind didnt have to be as advanced as khaleks was like daniel (he has a measly regular human peabrain but he ascended) so maybe orlins the same and if we put him in the machine he'll gain super powers and be able to ascend again!! man i amaze even myself sumtimes woith my genious!! if u find errors with my theory tell me so i can think of a way to fix them. o yea sry for the length but this thing deserves it

Giantevilhead
September 17th, 2005, 09:28 PM
I don't think that the answer of an Orii virus would be in a Lab of Anubis, It doesn't contain all the knowledge of the ancients. If it did, then Daniel and Teal'c would've take longer to search the database in that lab, and they did that twice.
The technology in Anubis's lab was a lot better than the stuff at the SGC. If the genetic manipulation thing can alter human DNA then it should be able to alter the virus DNA and even if it can't Orlin can fix that.

the fifth man
September 17th, 2005, 09:36 PM
The technology in Anubis's lab was a lot better than the stuff at the SGC. If the genetic manipulation thing can alter human DNA then it should be able to alter the virus DNA and even if it can't Orlin can fix that.

I guess we'll all just have to wait the long three months to find out what really happens. Boy does that bum me out.

the fifth man
September 17th, 2005, 10:07 PM
Interesting theory.....I'll have to think about this one a little more and post back in more detail.

Cooper
September 17th, 2005, 10:25 PM
Well, I don't know precisely how the machine works, but if they messed up, they might just end up turning him into another Khalek with Anubis memories and all.

donniepw
September 17th, 2005, 10:34 PM
Actually Kalek had the memories of Anubis because he was a clone of Anubis. The device he was using to advance the clone was said to be the same device used my Nirtirri (not sure if I spelled that right). Funny thing though after watching the two episodes back to back I thought the same thing as far as helping Orlin.

Neetz
September 17th, 2005, 11:44 PM
Well, since I pretty much used up all my active brain cells commenting on "Prototype," I'll be less analytical here. Honestly, I feel I need to hold most of my storyline comments until I see the second half (January? Arghhh!). The two parters seem to make much more sense and are just plain better when taken as a whole. That said...

Yay!, General Hammond and Bra'tac! :D Nice to see them still around. Yes, I wish they'd explained a little better about exactly where Jack and Hammond are these days. Unless I blinked, we haven't been actually told on the show itself, only what some of us have gotten from spoilers.

I kinda like that Daniel and Mitchell are palling around (the basketball games), but for goodness sake, can Mitchell stop calling him "Jackson." And what exactly does Daniel call him? I can't recall an actual instance of Daniel saying Mitchell's name at all! As to the "sponge bath" controversy, I've got a feeling they're going to spring some kind of past relationship between Cam and Lam (I feel more like I'm in Dr. Seuss all the time! Green eggs and Ham(mond), anyone? [groan!]) on us sometime in the future. There have been a few odd moments that seem to be very vague foreshadowing. I'm rather hoping it was just something in the past and they're just friends now. I tend to be wary of ships on this show. I lean more toward the team/family dynamics.

Gerak's turn this evening (pun intended) was interesting. I'm wondering if his little bit of doubt will be what they need to convince him of the Ori's true intentions as they mentioned they planned to do with the prior Daniel and Mitchell are after.

I didn't have as adverse a reaction to pint-sized Orlin as some have. I'm willing to wait and see the second half to see what this young actor brings us. But SPF is a hard act to follow.

JYH - re decending with memories intact. My take is that the last time Daniel came back, he had his memories of what happened to him (with Oma and "Jim" in the diner), but he didn't have conscious memory of the Ancient knowledge that he'd accessed while battling with RepliCarter. I do, however, wonder why Orlin seemed to retain his knowledge the first time he decended without much apparent distress. But I think the first question Daniel should have asked Orlin was, how come YOU get to decend with your clothes on!?! :eek:

All in all, I think the setup was good. Let's see how the second half plays out.


PS: Reading my post, my better half just started singing (badly, I might add), "Sam and Cam and Lam, Dan and Jan and Lan-dry." Poor Teal'c must feel REALLY left out!

the dancer of spaz
September 18th, 2005, 12:14 AM
I stayed away from any spoilers or pics so the Gerak as Prior ending was one of those, OMG :eek: moments, which was very cool. Fun to be "spoiler free" sometimes. ;)

I've complained before that the whole Jaffa movement arc was getting stale, but this episode opens doors for it to go in a whole different direction - and give Teal'c much more to do. Go writers!

As for the potential Mitchell/Lam "ship" rumors. No, no, no, pretty please! We are just starting to know Mitchell, and while I'm starting to like Lam, she still isn't Janet, so I don't really want any romo between those two. Don't think it would really fly with the fans. IMO.

Landry continues to really impress - he's almost up there with Hammond, not quite. .but close! This was the character that worried me in the beginning, but Beau Bridges continues to make this a very strong and interesting character.

Hey, hey, hey. Remember our little agreement, FoolishPleasure! Hop to it! ;) :P

Darth_Bicyclist
September 18th, 2005, 12:44 AM
I enjoyed both episodes tonight. Some thoughts:

So Orlin is dying because he has all the knowledge of the Ancients in his head. Hmm, it seems to me that there's someone else who has had all the knowledge of the Ancients in his head...twice. I wonder if we'll be seeing him again soon....

So the Ancients/Alterans and the Ori were enemies, and the Ancients were wiped out by a plague? I wonder if this is the same plague, or if it stems from the same, ah, origin?

Someone else asked, why do the Ori need more power? Maybe they need it to reach next stage of evolution. It's an infinite Universe, after all.

I'm probably venturing into Failure of Suspension of Disbelief territory here, but what about all the other highly advanced non-ascended races? Haven't they run into the Ori as well? Between the Asgard, the Nox, the (still as yet unseen) Furlings, and remnants of other various advanced human societies (the Tollan, the Aschen, etc.), and other races with almost magical abilities (Spirits etc.), there's got to be someone who has come across them, especially if they are contemporaries of the Ancients and have presumably been 'gating all over the Universe for all these thousands of years. If the Ori's power is really ultimately based on technology, then all these bright species should be able to put their heads together and come up with something to match their bag of tricks, right?

Along those lines, I agree with others who think there will be more crossover between SG-1 and Atlantis this season. Perhaps the Wraith and the Ori can be pitted against each other, like the Replicators and the Goa'uld? (Although I can't see the Wraith being much of a match for the Ori. On the other hand, as we know from Atlantis, they are advanced enough to be able to thwart Asgard beaming technology. Or maybe the Cylons will find Earth first. Whoops, wrong show.)

Finally: the kid who played Orlin -- it could have been worse. At least he didn't yell "Yippee!"

Quinn Mallory
September 18th, 2005, 02:11 AM
One of the best episodes ever of the show. Too bad that we won't get more SG-1 until January.

I think season 9 overall has been pretty good. Season 7 and 8 had some early episodes which were a bit disappointing to me. Season 9, with the new characters, are still better than average at worst.

LoveYouBaby
September 18th, 2005, 06:05 AM
Well this episode rocked. Since this was Part of the 2 parters of the mid-seasonal break, I like the slow-paced, there was huge details to everything, the characters - RESPECT I say to the writers.

The young Orlin was kinda stiff, and I'm not going to dis the young actor cos that's just low. Anyway, the technobabble and the length of line, I'm amazed that the kid did it so well.

It's easy to say the technobabble but it's another to make it sound convincing.

Awesome 2 hours, Garak and his obviously corrupted ways, that lady in the Jaffa Council, she seems the coolest, most open-minded and yet she won't stand up. Most unfortunate.

The plague ... happening so fast, poor SGC and poor Lam and yet, it's so exciting. Pleasure overload, fantastic episode, and I can't wait to see the conclusion to the Part 1 of the story in January or before that when SG-1 begins in the UK.

jyh
September 18th, 2005, 06:05 AM
JYH - re decending with memories intact. My take is that the last time Daniel came back, he had his memories of what happened to him (with Oma and "Jim" in the diner), but he didn't have conscious memory of the Ancient knowledge that he'd accessed while battling with RepliCarter.



Good point. Daniel does remember his whole encounter w/ Oma & Anubis at the diner, but not all the other Ancient stuff. Altho even in the diner, he didn't have "all the knowledge of the ancients," because the diner was just a way-station before people get to that point.




JYH - But I think the first question Daniel should have asked Orlin was, how come YOU get to decend with your clothes on!?! :eek:



ROFLOL!!! Excellent question!!! You just know Jack would have asked something like that!! I guess if you want to get technical about it the answer would be that the Ancients helped send Orlin Light back to earth, so they probably allowed him to prepare in some degree, since he already knew how humans are and what we expect (i.e., that we expect our visitors not to be naked!).

Question.... in the previous Orlin episode ("Ascension"?) was it clear to us viewers that Sam & Orlin had a er, relationship? I know he cared for her & she may have been attracted to him, but I thought she was too spooked by the whole "he's an alien and not a human" thing. Not to mention that she's an Air Force officer, and sleeping with somebody from another planet might possibly break a protocol or two. (Not that it's never been done... *cough* Jack *cough* Daniel)

AGateFan
September 18th, 2005, 06:23 AM
Good point. Daniel does remember his whole encounter w/ Oma & Anubis at the diner, but not all the other Ancient stuff. Altho even in the diner, he didn't have "all the knowledge of the ancients," because the diner was just a way-station before people get to that point.





ROFLOL!!! Excellent question!!! You just know Jack would have asked something like that!! I guess if you want to get technical about it the answer would be that the Ancients helped send Orlin Light back to earth, so they probably allowed him to prepare in some degree, since he already knew how humans are and what we expect (i.e., that we expect our visitors not to be naked!).

Question.... in the previous Orlin episode ("Ascension"?) was it clear to us viewers that Sam & Orlin had a er, relationship? I know he cared for her & she may have been attracted to him, but I thought she was too spooked by the whole "he's an alien and not a human" thing. Not to mention that she's an Air Force officer, and sleeping with somebody from another planet might possibly break a protocol or two. (Not that it's never been done... *cough* Jack *cough* Daniel)
Well they did do the glowy blending thing that Chia and Sheppard did and most people think they had a relationships... plus Orlin cooked dinner ;).

Daniel's_twin
September 18th, 2005, 07:28 AM
I don't have enough time to read through the entire thread, so I'm just going to put up what I thought.

This is an excellent episode, most definitely ranking in outstanding. It was a nice surprise to see Gen. Hammond again, even if only for a minute or two. I was also pleasantly surprised seeing Bra'tac, I've been missing him.

Loved the parts where Carter and Lee were working on the sound thing, especially with the rock 'n roll. Seeing Orlin was a great thing, too. They got an excellent kid to play him. I also liked that he explained why the Orii desire so many people to worship them, while at the same time explaining the reason that the Ancients don't interfere with us at all, 'cause they don't even wanna be tempted like the Orii were. Now all I can think of is Shi'fu. "the true measure of a man, is the battle for his subconscious. And the eviller subconscious is too strong to resist. The only way to win is to deny a battle." Just a small observation of mine.

The Jaffa High Council are a bunch of dopes with a few wise people in it. They've seen the damage that the Orii do and still they seriously consider turning to their religion. I can't wait to see how their society turns out, expecially the civil war breaks out. That would be awful.

And finally, the nation under quarantine. Talk about having far-reaching effects. I really can't wait to see how this entire episode plays out in Pt 2. Too bad we have to wait until January! :( :cool:

Traveler Enroute1
September 18th, 2005, 07:50 AM
YIPPEEEEE,, HURRAAAAYYYY,, WOOOOOTTTTTT,, AWESOME.
I dont know how to correctly display my happyness about getting the opening back.
<<my snips>>

Great news. But I noted this week (more so than last week) that at least one commercial break went to 5 MINUTES, and another just about 4. I'm hoping this is not how the PTB are going to re-compose the time from the snipped opening credits. I noted this because I try to pause at commercials when taping, and my little indicators actually went off, and sent the tape back into tape mode.

Hmm. Maybe they were maximizing on season break viewership? :S

Just sayin'.

Ugly Pig
September 18th, 2005, 12:47 PM
Half the season already?!


PIGGY'S USELESS OPINION
of 'The Fourth Horseman'

While I enjoyed this episode a whole big fat lot, I just can't stop thinking that I wish Sean Patrick Flanery would have reprised his role as Orlin. I'm not critizising Cameron Bright's performance, it just seems it would have worked a lot better with the original actor playing the part. He is one of my absolute favorite guest stars in the history of the show, and having his character done by someone else just makes me miss him. The reason they gave for his changed appearance didn't really help, it just came off as a flimsy excuse to me.

Nevertheless, the episode was good. The story is very interesting and I can't wait to see where it will lead, despite the fear that I won't like where it's headed (I'm thinking it's major character killing time again)...

Random Observations!
- Love the new establishing shots of Dakara. Also love how they finally got new establishing shots of Cheyenne this season.
- Mitchell's reaction to the "sponge bath" comment was interesting. Does he have history with Dr. Lam?
- So... I guess Daniel is the only one who has to strip naked every time he re-takes human form.
- When I read that Orlin was going to appear in this episode, I wondered if they were going to use his theme from 'Ascension' in the music. Which they did. Which I like. :)
- So, the Ori screw over their followers... They don't let them ascend. Big surprise there... :rolleyes:
- Hm... Brief appearance by General Hammond. Why have him appear if he doesn't contribute anything to the story? Somehow I doubt TPTB put him in there just to keep the character alive... In fact, I fear that they put him in that scene to do the exact opposite. :(
- Was the footage of the Doci actually new, or did they simply recycle footage from 'Origin'? I'm guessing they did.
- Gerak as a Prior. Man, I wish I hadn't been spoiled about that.

It's going to be a long couple of months... :(

LMichelle
September 18th, 2005, 01:08 PM
Enjoyed this ep very much.

Daniel and Cameron off to play basketball. *GUH* They needed a hotness warning for us fangirls before that scene came on. ;)

Did you see the ball said "SGC?" Hee.

"I wouldn't make that comment around me." Oooh, loved that line. Are they going to actually do something with Mitchell and Dr. Lam? 'Cause I haven't seen any evidence of anything shippy yet. Perhaps Cameron was just being a southern gentleman with that line. :)

General Hammond! Yay! I've missed him.

Was surprised to see Gerak as a Prior. Didn't expect that at the end.

Okay, I was a little creeped out by Sam and "Orlin." I'm sure Sam felt the same way. So the SGC has child size uniforms and Haz Mat suits on hand?

Great cliffhanger! And I'm just talking about the scene with Daniel in the black bandanna. :D

Mio
September 18th, 2005, 01:57 PM
The last time we saw a Prior being created, an Ori actually went into the guys body, didn't it?

I'm confused about how they do this long distance priorization. It would mean that the Ori are doing stuff directly in our Universe, which is a no-no....

Ugly Pig
September 18th, 2005, 02:16 PM
The last time we saw a Prior being created, an Ori actually went into the guys body, didn't it?It would seem that affecting ones "avatar" in the Ori home galaxy is enough to indirectly change one into a Prior. I guess it's a mental thing more than anything else...

jimmytheclaw
September 18th, 2005, 02:20 PM
well i was just finishing up a different thead post when i realized.......we can help orlin ascend again!! why dont we go bak to khalek's planet and put him in the machine to help him ascend again? and for those of you who say"he should already be able to because hes already ascended once" u r misled. orlin had help from another ancient to ascend so his mind didnt have to be as advanced as khaleks was like daniel (he has a measly regular human peabrain but he ascended) so maybe orlins the same and if we put him in the machine he'll gain super powers and be able to ascend again!! man i amaze even myself sumtimes woith my genious!! if u find errors with my theory tell me so i can think of a way to fix them. o yea sry for the length but this thing deserves it

i think i posted that in the khalek thread yeah that would be logical

Mio
September 18th, 2005, 03:08 PM
It would seem that affecting ones "avatar" in the Ori home galaxy is enough to indirectly change one into a Prior. I guess it's a mental thing more than anything else...

I'm guessing that the Prior's staff must have done a great deal of the job....There definetly has to be a large physiological aspect to this, if just in the way the brain is constructed.

Or maybe even the Prior himself. Didn't Sam say that Orlin said that he thought that the Prior actually changed his own DNA?

jckfan55
September 18th, 2005, 04:26 PM
Good episode, though I thought the implication by Landry that Sam and Orlin had anything but a friendship & glowy mental/spiritual relationship was way off. I'm looking forward to the conclusion--always a good sign.

jree
September 18th, 2005, 06:03 PM
Great episode they brought back bra'tac, and General Hammond. :D Gerak a prior and Mitchell and Daniel on the Sodan planet. I can't wait till the second half airs.

tearsintherain
September 18th, 2005, 06:25 PM
does anyone else think the ancients are somewhat afraid of the Ori? The whole thing frankly doesn't make much sense to me. The Ori and Ancients were one race. Schism develops, ori tries to kill everyone who doesn't believe, ancients split. The split had to occur pre-ascenscion, since the Ori later sent a plague to milky way to try and kill all ancients in physical form.

Both the ancients and Ori know that having mortal beings "worship" you grants you even more power (?this makes no sense so far, arent ascended beings almost omnipotent?). For some bizarre reason the ancients seed life on their galaxy, hide its presence from the Ori, but pretty much distance themselves from this life. Why? Ok, they are benovelent and want to see their "children" mature and learn on their own.

Now the Ori basically enslave their own galaxy, feeding on the power of belief to ?do what? throw crazy energy parties? the most logical thing would be find the ancients and kill em all. but they dont. Not enough worshippers? If they are ascended they are equal to ancients in power. However having worshippers must give them sort of edge.

The motivations and actions of both the Ori and Ancients basically make no sense. What does having a ton of worshippers provide? Why don't the ancients want it? Why don't the Ori do something with that extra power? Or do they need even more believers to initiate their actions? And how is having a bunch of people "believe" in you help in any way? Are quantum belief waves eminating from my body or something? If I fake a Ori prayer does that help or hurt?

AGateFan
September 18th, 2005, 06:49 PM
does anyone else think the ancients are somewhat afraid of the Ori? The whole thing frankly doesn't make much sense to me. The Ori and Ancients were one race. Schism develops, ori tries to kill everyone who doesn't believe, ancients split. The split had to occur pre-ascenscion, since the Ori later sent a plague to milky way to try and kill all ancients in physical form.

Both the ancients and Ori know that having mortal beings "worship" you grants you even more power (?this makes no sense so far, arent ascended beings almost omnipotent?). For some bizarre reason the ancients seed life on their galaxy, hide its presence from the Ori, but pretty much distance themselves from this life. Why? Ok, they are benovelent and want to see their "children" mature and learn on their own.

Now the Ori basically enslave their own galaxy, feeding on the power of belief to ?do what? throw crazy energy parties? the most logical thing would be find the ancients and kill em all. but they dont. Not enough worshippers? If they are ascended they are equal to ancients in power. However having worshippers must give them sort of edge.

The motivations and actions of both the Ori and Ancients basically make no sense. What does having a ton of worshippers provide? Why don't the ancients want it? Why don't the Ori do something with that extra power? Or do they need even more believers to initiate their actions? And how is having a bunch of people "believe" in you help in any way? Are quantum belief waves eminating from my body or something? If I fake a Ori prayer does that help or hurt?
It is beyond our little mortal brains to comprehend....but that doesnt mean it doesnt make sense in ascended land.

DangerIsGo
September 18th, 2005, 06:56 PM
Does anyone know what song that was that played during the ep? Its like really bothering me. I searched for the band Dark Pariah, but all i got was some acoustic singer. I doubt that thats it. Anyone got anything?

marius
September 18th, 2005, 06:57 PM
One thing that's been bugging me for a while.

Why does Orlin need to descend to help out the humans? Couldn't he have found a way to help while being an ascended ancient? I seem to remember Oma being able to show herself, do things, etc....

jree
September 18th, 2005, 06:58 PM
It seems that the ancients are scared of the Ori and don't want to fight them directly. Maybe the followers give the Ori massive power and there is some kind of cold war between the Alterans and the Ori. The Alterans don't want people to worship them but the jaffa and the people in the pegasus galaxy do it anyway thus the Alterans might be getting some power to but they are afraid of what might happen to their society if they use it. They would stop being Alteran and become more like the Ori. Which would be distastrous to a society that believes in science and technology.

Daniel's_twin
September 18th, 2005, 07:52 PM
One thing that's been bugging me for a while.

Why does Orlin need to descend to help out the humans? Couldn't he have found a way to help while being an ascended ancient? I seem to remember Oma being able to show herself, do things, etc....

One, welcome to the forum!

Two, it's a little more complicated then that. Oma was "allowed" to interfere, (albeit in a "small" manner) because of her punishment for helping Anubis to ascend. You notice, she never really saw her playing an active role physically after her first appearance, unless you count her helping Daniel to ascend in Meridian.

And as for Orlin, he could argue that he was fulfilling his part of his punishment on earth by trying to convince Sam that she shouldn't use that super-weapon. This time, he had nothing to do with the weapon, so the Others would probably frown on it 'cause it would be interfering as an ascended being. But, he also said that they wanted pretty badly to do something to stop the Orii in this galaxy from what I remember. Since he was already technically an outcast, I guess they figured it would be Ok if he de-ascended to help Sam figure out how to fight them.

Not sure if it helps, but I tried. :cool:

Wyrminarrd
September 18th, 2005, 07:55 PM
First off my oppinion on the episode: This was a great episode, loved having a nation wide crises and the feeling that the SGC actions effect the whole world. Hope the virus spreads outside US borders to increase the pressure.

The other stuff is great, saw Gerricks prioring coming but it still makes for a great story tool.

As for the explanation for the Orii and Alterans motives I can understand them (assuming that the guy was telling the truth, he might be pulling a fast one). To explain why the Orii would want more power it´s possible that when the split happened between them and the Alterans that it wasn´t 50/50, perhaps the Alterans were 70% or more of the population and the only way that the Orii can bring them selves to parity is with worshipers. Plus I buy that the Orii don´t want any more ascendends crowding the astral plane, it´s like everyone on the street owning a Ferrari and thus your own doesn´t seem special at all.

The Alterans motives are just as clear, these are your arch-typica good guys who believe in free will and all that stuff. They also desire having more people ascending, both because it helps them keep pace with the Orii (who are getting stronger by more worshipers) and because they are benevolent. And as for why they seeded life all over the universe, I´d say ego could play a big part there. Having all live in an entire galaxy owe it´s excistence to you most be a major ego boost.l

Redwall
September 18th, 2005, 08:56 PM
My only comment on this episode: poor Gerak. I think by the end he realized he was wrong, but by then it was too late. (And yeah, the Doci stock footage did not blend well.)

KatG
September 19th, 2005, 05:53 AM
Really, really liked this ep.

Sam was in full scientist mode, which I really love seeing. Liked her interaction with mini-Orlin. I think she handled the whole thing really well. I always suspected she and the original Orlin were more than friends, Landry's comment just confirmed it, although I think it was in rather bad form to bring it up in front of other people.

Knew from spoiler pics that Garak was going to become a Prior, but I like how it happened. I think he was having doubts there at the end, and had no idea what was going to actually happen to him when he went to "see" the Ori.

And the nation being under quarantine - very, very cool. It's going to be really hard to keep the Stargate program a secret now.

Excellent cliffhanger too. Looking forward to January, and that's something seeing as when S9 began, I wasn't sure if I would be or not.

Ugly Pig
September 19th, 2005, 09:10 AM
Anyone notice that Landry used the word "descend" rather than the phrase "retake human form" when talking about Orlin? Isn't this the first time the word has been used (at least in that way) on the show? I know us fans have used it forever, but...

the dancer of spaz
September 19th, 2005, 09:51 AM
Anyone notice that Landry used the word "descend" rather than the phrase "retake human form" when talking about Orlin? Isn't this the first time the word has been used (at least in that way) on the show? I know us fans have used it forever, but...

Nah. I'm pretty sure I've heard Sam or Jack use it before... I think... :o

Mattathias2.0
September 19th, 2005, 01:20 PM
does anyone else think the ancients are somewhat afraid of the Ori? The whole thing frankly doesn't make much sense to me. The Ori and Ancients were one race. Schism develops, ori tries to kill everyone who doesn't believe, ancients split. The split had to occur pre-ascenscion, since the Ori later sent a plague to milky way to try and kill all ancients in physical form.

Both the ancients and Ori know that having mortal beings "worship" you grants you even more power (?this makes no sense so far, arent ascended beings almost omnipotent?). For some bizarre reason the ancients seed life on their galaxy, hide its presence from the Ori, but pretty much distance themselves from this life. Why? Ok, they are benovelent and want to see their "children" mature and learn on their own.

Now the Ori basically enslave their own galaxy, feeding on the power of belief to ?do what? throw crazy energy parties? the most logical thing would be find the ancients and kill em all. but they dont. Not enough worshippers? If they are ascended they are equal to ancients in power. However having worshippers must give them sort of edge.

The motivations and actions of both the Ori and Ancients basically make no sense. What does having a ton of worshippers provide? Why don't the ancients want it? Why don't the Ori do something with that extra power? Or do they need even more believers to initiate their actions? And how is having a bunch of people "believe" in you help in any way? Are quantum belief waves eminating from my body or something? If I fake a Ori prayer does that help or hurt?

Seeing as both the Ori and Ancients are now Ascended, I don't think the Ori can kill the Ancients, even if they desired too. Anubis was half-Ascended and Oma was completely Ascended, and she couldn't even kill him.

Since the Ancients refuse to generally interact with our level of existence, the Ori decided to do so to gain more... power?... influence to their specifications? I don't know.

Crichton
September 19th, 2005, 06:20 PM
All I have to say is wow, ...seriously.

Crichton
September 19th, 2005, 09:04 PM
ok, so it's not all i have to say.

talk about an uneventful re-entry for the tokkra. don't get me wrong, i LOVE the tokkra...but correct me if i'm wrong, this is the first time we've even heard from them since the gould were defeated by the tauri-and the tokkra fought them for thousands of years?? and we didn't even get to see them deliver the message?? oh well, ANY tokkra is better than no tokkra.

the fifth man
September 19th, 2005, 09:10 PM
ok, so it's not all i have to say.

talk about an uneventful re-entry for the tokkra. don't get me wrong, i LOVE the tokkra...but correct me if i'm wrong, this is the first time we've even heard from them since the gould were defeated by the tauri-and the tokkra fought them for thousands of years?? and we didn't even get to see them deliver the message?? oh well, ANY tokkra is better than no tokkra.

Hey, you never know, we may yet see some Tok'ra this season. I'm not abandoning all hope just yet. :)

DigiFluid
September 19th, 2005, 09:11 PM
lol another big goof this week.

Gerak was on Dakara, and took a 'spiritual' trip to Celestus. The Prior even said that his body was still on Dakara.

So how is it Gerak suddenly had a shiny new staff to walk into the Jaffa council meeting with? I suppose we could speculate that the Prior gave it to Gerak but that'd be completely unprecedented.

tsaxlady
September 19th, 2005, 10:45 PM
Finally two enjoyable episodes in a row. The season is getting better and picking up speed. Although I did like Prototype better, since this is the first of a two parter I'm hopeful the second part will be better than the first. Not crazy about the fact that we have to wait until Jan for part 2.

Enjoyed seeing Hammond and Bratac in the episode. Young Orlin - not fully sold on him yet. Loved the scenes between Carter & Dr. Lee. All in all enjoyed the episode and look forward to the conclusion.

bluezero02
September 19th, 2005, 11:24 PM
I've got a quick question. I know Danny said Anubis was half-ascended, but in Threads they treated him like he was all the way there.

So, assuming he was all the way there, how was he not like a god among the other Ascended? He had the fanatical devotion of a whole lot of Jaffa, not to mention those Kull warriors...

It just seems kind of convenient that the Ori feed off their disciples, and that's why they do what they do.

Daniel's_twin
September 20th, 2005, 08:26 AM
Well, the way I understand it, they weren't all the way to the Ascended plane. Oma said that it was kind of a stop along the way, so it's likely that Anubis could "access that site" if you will. And I'm guessing with the worshipping Jaffa thing, that it might not have the same effect on a half-ascended being as it would a fully-ascended being. Even so, he's outnumbered on a grand scale.

As for those Kull warriors, not sure they would count. They have no free will, and from what I understand, in order to gain that power that the Orii are looking for, it needs to be given through free will. So, no boost from the Super-soldiers. :cool:

entil2001
September 20th, 2005, 12:03 PM
After finally watching the “summer finale”, I understand why the producers had little issue with airing the previous episode immediately before this one. That episode was largely a prologue to this episode, especially in terms of giving the SGC a possible direction in the hunt for a weapon against the Priors. That’s a good thing, because they’re going to need it.

The writers are clearly shooting for a massive escalation of stakes in the growing war against the Ori, and since this is a two-part story, that means a lot of exposition. Unfortunately, that doesn’t work to anyone’s advantage, especially when a boring child actor is the one delivering the exposition. Of course, the writers were also trying to get past the background and get the story moving, so perhaps it’s all forgivable in the end.

So the Ori are basically like something out of Celtic folklore: evil faerie who gain their power from the directed belief of those who believe in their power. In turn, the Ori take the power and keep the evolved humans from advancing far enough to ascend on their own. Since the only other way to ascend is through the help of another ascended being, the followers of the Ori are basically screwed.

What I like about this is that we learn more about the Ancients themselves through the filter of what they didn’t become. The Ancients and their non-interference position are a lot more reasonable within this context. It’s not that they don’t want to help, so much as they know all too well what they could become if they are tempted. Anubis, it seems, is just a minor glitch when compared to what might have been.

The Priors are humans who appear to have been evolved as far as they can go without being ascended, and then kept in that artificially evolved state with no hope of true free will. I’m rather convinced that some kind of mind control is involved as well, though when someone is that fanatical already, just getting that sudden rush of power must be more than enough.

I always knew Garek would be trouble, but this is a twist I didn’t see coming at all. I give the writers credit for coming up with a twist in the arc that I didn’t anticipate. In fact, that’s something I can say about the season as a whole. It’s done a great job of taking me places that I would never have expected the series to go at this stage of the game.

Certainly I didn’t see the plague striking Earth! In my book, that’s a great bit of foreshadowing. Nearly every episode of the season to this point has now become a part of the overall context of the dire situation here. If the International Committee wanted proof that the Priors were a danger, then I think this fits that description.

While the Orlin scenes were annoying because of the actor involved (why not just use a different character and eliminate the queasiness of the situation?), they did help give scope to the situation and how far out of their depth the Tau’ri are. Against the Goa’uld, they had allies. Now they have enemies among the Jaffa, and there’s precious little that anyone seems to be willing to do. Certainly the Asgard and Tok’ra aren’t directly involved.

Whatever the case, despite the pitfalls of some awkward scenes and bad exposition, this was a good episode, if only because we’ve rarely seen the worst-case scenario play itself out so completely. Earth has been struck with a plague, the Jaffa are led by a murderous Prior, and there’s no assurance that the anti-Prior field is going to solve the problem. Like I said about the Ori all along…it’s been a long time since I’ve actually been this intrigued at how it will all play out in January.

Metarock Sam
September 20th, 2005, 12:06 PM
OMFG This episode Rocks. Not only did we get to see hammond again aswell as Bratac but we got Dr Lee listening to heavy metal (aptly named Dark Prior), we got to see Garick become a Prior (one of the best Stargate SG-1 Cliffhangers in a while.), we got to learn how Priors draw their energy. All I can say is from the look of things the second half of the season is going to be explosive (I doubt that we will get a Jaffa civil war.)
This episode also got to show Orlin again although he is shorter and younger he is still the nice unascended guy we all know and love.
Gerak wouldd have got his staff after being initiated into become a prior. I guess the Prior either gave him a staff non caporieally and it appeard caporieally or they can replicate themselves. Or the Prior had a spare one. Whatever all I can say is Roll On The Forth Horseman Part 2.

japhmi
September 20th, 2005, 12:13 PM
I agree, Orlin's little "Us good guys believe in science, while those EVIL Ori believe in RELIGION" (shudder the thought) is a little over the top.

I'd like to see either Orlin himself or another Ancient (may over in the Pegasus galaxy) counteract this statement. Another thought I'd been having - what if the Ancients were the ones who made the Goa'uld as bad as they are. Maybe a rouge Ori who had infiltrated the departing Ancients and tried to give them the Ori religion via their genetic memories - but messed up so that they thought that they were Gods.

Daniel's_twin
September 20th, 2005, 04:32 PM
Another thought I'd been having - what if the Ancients were the ones who made the Goa'uld as bad as they are. Maybe a rouge Ori who had infiltrated the departing Ancients and tried to give them the Ori religion via their genetic memories - but messed up so that they thought that they were Gods.

Mmm, no offense, but that doesn't sound right.

P.S. Welcome to the forum! :cool:

Taonas
September 20th, 2005, 04:42 PM
OMFG This episode Rocks. Not only did we get to see hammond again aswell as Bratac but we got Dr Lee listening to heavy metal (aptly named Dark Prior)

Actually, it was named "Dark Pariah".

majorsal
September 21st, 2005, 12:56 AM
Good episode, though I thought the implication by Landry that Sam and Orlin had anything but a friendship & glowy mental/spiritual relationship was way off.

didn't like that either (understatement). it's like they rewrote ascension. argh. :rolleyes:



sally :)

colonel O'Neill
September 21st, 2005, 01:49 AM
Just a quick question.
When exactly is part 2 coming out.
Januray......(enter date) :D
Thanks.
:rolleyes:

ChillinTheMost
September 21st, 2005, 12:32 PM
Another great episode! For me, anyway.

Some of my favorite stuff:

Mitchell and Daniel playing basketball together. I know we saw them all playing BBall with Vala, but this makes it seem like they truly are bonding. I loved how they both smelled themselves when trying to identify the odor!

Landry at briefing: “I’m not exactly sure what an aneurism feels like, but I suspect I’m pretty close.”
Mitchell: “Boy, I’m glad I’m not the only one.”
I like that Mitchell tried to read Sam’s novel about the Anti-Prior Gun. Jack wouldn’t even had tried. [No problem, just different styles, and I like that.]
And then at the end:
Sam: “He didn’t look too impressed.”
Mitchell: “Oh, trust me, Anti-Prior Gun would have gone down better.”

Still loving the female Jaffa on the council that always calls for recess. Someone on another forum suggested that she might have a bladder problem. LOL.

Sam, referring to equipment Orlin has to find a cure to the plague [and after previously reminding him that he built a stargate in her basement out of a toaster: “This is the best we have. I can get you a toaster if you need it.”
Orlin: “Not unless you’re hungry for toast.”
Sam: “Waffle iron?”

The part with Orlin repeating things to Sam during lunch was sad. I don’t know if the final result will be that he’ll die or just be brain dead. Or that he’ll retain enough brain cells to be a normal human. Any ideas?

When Mitchell and Daniel go to find the Sodan:
Mitchell: “We’ll be fine.”
They are taken prisoners.
Daniel: “Are we still fine?”
Mitchell: Yeah, we’re fine.”
Daniel: “Good. Just checking.”
…and Mitchell’s little finger waves to the Sodans that are holding them.

Den Sethos
September 22nd, 2005, 08:31 AM
One thing struck me... When Gerack waltzes in at the end of the ep, he has an Ori staff... Did the Prior have one spare staff with him?
Do you think the Big Guy at Celestis knows what the Ori are offering is bogus?

starfox
September 22nd, 2005, 02:12 PM
There were things I liked about this ep and things I didn't, but I've seen two gripes on this thread that I want to throw my two cents into.

A) The sponge-bath comment & Mitchell's reaction.
Landry & Lam's relationship was being re-stated, possibly for people who only tuned back in after Vala left and were trying to understand the dynamic between the two. Besides, Lexa Doig is a very attractive woman, and on a military base it's not unrealistic to believe that someone would notice that and make the expected rude comments.
As for Mitchell's reaction? I'm pretty sure (please don't quote me on this, as I'm not sure where I read it) that Mitchell and Lam were supposed to be written as having had a relationship previous to this season. But it's over now, and they're just good friends. And even if the whole ex-relationship thing was just a rumour, Mitchell's remark still doesn't have to be taken as a ship kinda thing. After all, if someone said that about Sam, Daniel would tell them to shut it. If someone said that about me, my guy friends would take up for me (or at least I think they would). It's a sign of friendship and good manners. If you're not a ship fan, don't worry about it; it's not neccessarily a precursor to ship.

B)Cameron Bright's acting.
I think the kid did a rather decent job, actually. Orlin is a dry kind of character, not used to showing human emotion, and he portrayed that. He didn't do that bad a job, in my opinion.

Metarock Sam
September 22nd, 2005, 03:36 PM
One thing struck me... When Gerack waltzes in at the end of the ep, he has an Ori staff... Did the Prior have one spare staff with him?
Do you think the Big Guy at Celestis knows what the Ori are offering is bogus?
No cos Daniel says 'If the Priors are being controlled than the Doci must be also' He looks like hes constantly being used as a prior with probably one or more ORri in him and no idea of what the hell is going on.

Den Sethos
September 23rd, 2005, 01:28 AM
I had forgotten that sentence... Do we know if the Prior are actually possessed by Oris? They might simply be genetically changed and their memories updated when they go through the Ori fire... After all, the Priors are merely servants. I hardly see one of those power-hungry aliens being in the body of a mere servant... It wouldn't be good for their ego...

lily
September 23rd, 2005, 11:42 AM
Haven't read others' posts yet here, but wanted to post what I typed after watching this epi once:

- Well, I knew Hammond and Bra'tac were going to be in this epi, and that Gerak was going to become a Prior, due to online spoilers. So no surprise there... It was great to see ol'Hammond and Bra'tac.

- Cameron and Daniel all sweat from playing basketball. Yeah! <some drooling here>

- I really liked everybody, including Gerak (first time!). Gerak was the only new character I didn't care much about until now. I think the scenes where we can see his doubts were great. Poor guy now got "priored". Oy!

- Ah,the scenes with Dr. Lee were great. I'm glad we're seeing more of him this season.

- Anti Prior gun? The good guys have to start having some advantage at some point. Yes!

- Nice to see Orlin back, but I would've preferred the original actor. I know Sean Patrick F. wasn't available and so the writers had to change the part. It would've been cooler with the original Orlin, but well, not much can be done about actors schedules...

- A blood sample from a certain Prior? Oy! Can't see the guy volunteering...

Metarock Sam
September 23rd, 2005, 01:24 PM
perhaps theyll use a magic bullet to ensnare the prior. And take him back to base and strap him to a bed like they did to Apophis.

FeloniousMonk
September 23rd, 2005, 06:26 PM
I didn't like the Orlin actor. His dullness was too much even for that character. The kid simply can't act. I typically don't like kids in scifi or any role other than as kids. People think it's cute, it's not. The whole 12 year old hitting on Sam...it wasn't adorable, it was disturbing.

Plus, that kid can't act.

the fifth man
September 23rd, 2005, 08:02 PM
How about not insulting the actor himself. It's just not right, in my opinion. I didn't think he did too bad of a job, considering some of the stuff that had to come out of his mouth.

Ali888
September 24th, 2005, 01:21 AM
I didn't like the Orlin actor. His dullness was too much even for that character. The kid simply can't act. I typically don't like kids in scifi or any role other than as kids. People think it's cute, it's not. The whole 12 year old hitting on Sam...it wasn't adorable, it was disturbing.

Plus, that kid can't act.

But a twelve year old wasn't hitting on Sam. Orlin, when he took human form as a man, had a relationship with Sam. He then re-ascended and has now come back in the form of a boy. He's still the same person he always was, he just *looks* different.

Uber
September 24th, 2005, 01:46 AM
But a twelve year old wasn't hitting on Sam. Orlin, when he took human form as a man, had a relationship with Sam. He then re-ascended and has now come back in the form of a boy. He's still the same person he always was, he just *looks* different.Excellent point...

Orlin is who-knows-HOW-old...just because he's currently occupying the body of a child does not make him one.

And when he...how did Orlin put it in Ascension? Joined conscious minds with Sam I think...he was in the body of a full grown and really hot man.

:D

LtColCarter
September 24th, 2005, 09:22 AM
In general...a good episode. I really enjoyed it.

Gateshipp-er1
September 24th, 2005, 05:46 PM
I agree that that it was a good ep. and I can't wait for part 2. Too bad that SPF wasn't available.:(

the dancer of spaz
September 24th, 2005, 05:59 PM
I didn't like the Orlin actor. His dullness was too much even for that character. The kid simply can't act. I typically don't like kids in scifi or any role other than as kids. People think it's cute, it's not. The whole 12 year old hitting on Sam...it wasn't adorable, it was disturbing.

Plus, that kid can't act.

This has been mentioned WAY too many times before, and it's getting kinda old. :( Everyone's a critic, but this is just ridiculous.

While I admit that the actor seems to get similar roles all the time, it's been said that Bright based his performance off of SPF's original portrayal, and I think he was cast specifically for his style. Flannery did it MUCH the same way three years ago.

I'm with the fifth man: Putting down the actor is not good at all... :S

jckfan55
September 24th, 2005, 06:02 PM
I haven't seen the kid in anything else. I thought he was matching the style of Flannery's Orlin and did just fine. The original Orlin had a sort of odd delivery and lack of affect, which I interpreted as coming from the fact that he hadn't dealt with humans in hundreds (?) of years. I did like the commissary scene between him and AT.

SG1Poz
September 24th, 2005, 06:07 PM
Excellent point...

Orlin is who-knows-HOW-old...just because he's currently occupying the body of a child does not make him one.

And when he...how did Orlin put it in Ascension? Joined conscious minds with Sam I think...he was in the body of a full grown and really hot man.

:D

I agree with you there! Out of all the possible boyfriends with Sam, He ( adult)was hot! He definatley would have had Jack worried a little.

Poz

the fifth man
September 24th, 2005, 06:12 PM
Man, waiting for the resolution of this episode is going to kill me all winter long. Guess it will be time to bust out all the DVDs of seasons 1-8 (8 when I get it),and tapes from this season. :)

Johnquixote
September 24th, 2005, 06:15 PM
But, if Orlin was played by SPF he wouldn't have had the brain damage thing would he? I think that is an unusual but cool subplot for T4H. If Orlin came back in adult form would he still have had the brain damage?

Jwizzman
September 25th, 2005, 01:44 PM
so...we're not getting anymore eps till' Januari? why? how the heck does their tv-show system work over there? the show has been running for like 3 months tops and they stop already for another summer brake thingy? what's up with that?

anywayz...kick-ass episode, I can't wait to see the conclusion, prototype finally added something new and exiting and this ep continued very well upon that.

cafine_us
September 25th, 2005, 02:32 PM
SciFi always has two breaks. In order to avoid competition with the major network premieres, SG1 and SGA start in the summer and then take a hiatus in the fall.

the fifth man
September 25th, 2005, 03:30 PM
SciFi always has two breaks. In order to avoid competition with the major network premieres, SG1 and SGA start in the summer and then take a hiatus in the fall.

And then the long, cold, lonely winter sets in. :( January, please hurry!

Dimeron
September 26th, 2005, 12:19 PM
does anyone else think the ancients are somewhat afraid of the Ori? The whole thing frankly doesn't make much sense to me. The Ori and Ancients were one race. Schism develops, ori tries to kill everyone who doesn't believe, ancients split. The split had to occur pre-ascenscion, since the Ori later sent a plague to milky way to try and kill all ancients in physical form.

Both the ancients and Ori know that having mortal beings "worship" you grants you even more power (?this makes no sense so far, arent ascended beings almost omnipotent?). For some bizarre reason the ancients seed life on their galaxy, hide its presence from the Ori, but pretty much distance themselves from this life. Why? Ok, they are benovelent and want to see their "children" mature and learn on their own.

Now the Ori basically enslave their own galaxy, feeding on the power of belief to ?do what? throw crazy energy parties? the most logical thing would be find the ancients and kill em all. but they dont. Not enough worshippers? If they are ascended they are equal to ancients in power. However having worshippers must give them sort of edge.

The motivations and actions of both the Ori and Ancients basically make no sense. What does having a ton of worshippers provide? Why don't the ancients want it? Why don't the Ori do something with that extra power? Or do they need even more believers to initiate their actions? And how is having a bunch of people "believe" in you help in any way? Are quantum belief waves eminating from my body or something? If I fake a Ori prayer does that help or hurt?

The way I see it, the Ori has the worshippers, and the worshippers give them power. Since they don't want to share the power, they make sure no one ascend.

The Alterrans don't want worshippers, but there are those out there whose basically going around ascending people. So in the end, the Ori methodology gets them more power, but few in number, while the Alterren has number on their side, even though they do not have the extra power from the worshippers. So it evens out in the end.

The two factions are probably in a cold war. If they fought directly who knows what might happen. Maybe both galaxies would blow up or something. So they fight through their proxy. Ori wit the prior, and Alterran send their rogues to help.

timdalton007
September 29th, 2005, 06:11 AM
Best episode of this season since "Avalon" and "Origin". Really liked the story and acting and liked the cameo by Don S. Davis. My only complaint is the 12 year old Orlin. It doesn't seem to work to me. if they couldn't get the acotr who played Orlin originaly, why not send another Ancient?

timdalton007

Daniel's_twin
September 29th, 2005, 01:32 PM
Because, frankly, it wouldn't have been nearly as interesting. :cool:

The Shadow
September 29th, 2005, 07:20 PM
Geez, I feel sorry for poor little Cameron Bright, people are just getting at him. The only reason I bothered to even watch the Fourth Horsemen was because Cameron was playing Orlin. So maybe he didn't do all that well, heck like every young actor is, he's still learning his craft, for god's sakes he's only 12 years old, let him breath for once. Besides I thought he did fairly well and anyways he isn't playing adult Orlin, he's playing YOUNG Orlin, and kids are like that when they're around older adults, especially if they have a crush on someone AND especially if they are geniuses. And he was also playing a very much liked character with a Star-Studed and amazing cast so you can't blame him for being a little nervous and stiff.

Did anyone notice that Landry was talking on the phone saying, “Have him contact me as soon as he lands.” Could that be a foreshadowing that someone is coming back to help? An old friend perhaps?

There are 3 possibilities as to who this person is:
1. It could be Woosley but he seems to be the most unlikely one because he already appeared in ‘Prototype’ and the actor had no mention that he was doing another guest star.

2. There is always that wee-bit chance that Jack is coming back to help, after all he worked with SG-1 for 8 years, you can’t say that he’s just going to sit on his butt while SG-1 is off in some great danger, and not to mention that Jack has the habit of attracting trouble and besides he’s not going to ignore this big huge plague and not help, that’s just impossible. SG-1 is like a family to him so there’s always a chance that he just couldn’t help it and come to SG-1’s aid (Personally I hope so!!) And I think the team will feel more comfortable and ready with Jack by their side, and I’m not saying that Mitchell is bad, heck I love the guy, but this is a new beginning for the team and Mitchell is just catching on to the game and it will take a while before the team can feel totally right with him. But with Jack right out there on the field with them, there’s not a single Prior that can dent their determination or trust, and no matter what happens they know that Jack will not, not ever let them down, there’s that “I trust you with my life no matter what” thing going on with the old SG-1 team and they’re so comfortable with each other that they’ll not worry that they won’t be able to find a cure, they just know that everything will be all right, I mean they went through hell and back (Literally!!!) and that kind of experience will bind people together forever with unwavering trust!!!

3. My last one and possibly that most likely one is Hammond, since he’s already in the 1st part, there is a more likely chance that he will be in the second part. But there are some big chances that it won’t be Hammond because Landry said “As soon as he lands” and that scene when he’s speaking to the soldiers looked like that he’s already in Colorado so he wouldn’t need to fly on a plane, unless when they rushed him into the car, they took him somewhere else far away. Also there’s a less likely chance that Hammond could actually do anything to help on the field or just supplying knowledge unless they want him to help to give orders. With Jack, he can do both field and knowledge, seeing as how the Asgards love and worships him and that he’s the first human to be able to use the Ancient Knowledge and the chair in the outpost.

greytop
September 30th, 2005, 12:25 AM
Did anyone notice that Landry was talking on the phone saying, “Have him contact me as soon as he lands.” Could that be a foreshadowing that someone is coming back to help? An old friend perhaps?

There are 3 possibilities as to who this person is:
1. It could be Woosley but he seems to be the most unlikely one because he already appeared in ‘Prototype’ and the actor had no mention that he was doing another guest star.

2. There is always that wee-bit chance that Jack is coming back to help, after all he worked with SG-1 for 8 years, you can’t say that he’s just going to sit on his butt while SG-1 is off in some great danger, and not to mention that Jack has the habit of attracting trouble and besides he’s not going to ignore this big huge plague and not help, that’s just impossible. SG-1 is like a family to him so there’s always a chance that he just couldn’t help it and come to SG-1’s aid (Personally I hope so!!) And I think the team will feel more comfortable and ready with Jack by their side, and I’m not saying that Mitchell is bad, heck I love the guy, but this is a new beginning for the team and Mitchell is just catching on to the game and it will take a while before the team can feel totally right with him. But with Jack right out there on the field with them, there’s not a single Prior that can dent their determination or trust, and no matter what happens they know that Jack will not, not ever let them down, there’s that “I trust you with my life no matter what” thing going on with the old SG-1 team and they’re so comfortable with each other that they’ll not worry that they won’t be able to find a cure, they just know that everything will be all right, I mean they went through hell and back (Literally!!!) and that kind of experience will bind people together forever with unwavering trust!!!

3. My last one and possibly that most likely one is Hammond, since he’s already in the 1st part, there is a more likely chance that he will be in the second part. But there are some big chances that it won’t be Hammond because Landry said “As soon as he lands” and that scene when he’s speaking to the soldiers looked like that he’s already in Colorado so he wouldn’t need to fly on a plane, unless when they rushed him into the car, they took him somewhere else far away. Also there’s a less likely chance that Hammond could actually do anything to help on the field or just supplying knowledge unless they want him to help to give orders. With Jack, he can do both field and knowledge, seeing as how the Asgards love and worships him and that he’s the first human to be able to use the Ancient Knowledge and the chair in the outpost.There is a fourth possiblity. It could be the President of the US.

The Shadow
October 1st, 2005, 07:22 PM
There is a fourth possiblity. It could be the President of the US.

I doubt that it is the President, from the tone of Landry's voice, it sounds like an old friend, someone he knows very well. And if it was the President, wouldn't they just say it? I don't think any will be surprised or care if the President show up, either way, with him or not, it wouldn't make any difference against the Ori. And I personally don't think that the writers will waste valuable storytime for the President to interfere.

Unlike with Jack, the Ori will have a much more formidable opponent to deal with (Not to mention he's sarcasim. Or is it "Impudence" these days?):D

cafine_us
October 1st, 2005, 08:35 PM
I don't think it will be Jack, though. Or at least RDA won't personally make an appearance. If he were making a return visit we'd have heard the buzz from spoilers. TPTB would certainly want to hype that episode.

The Shadow
October 2nd, 2005, 10:33 AM
I don't think it will be Jack, though. Or at least RDA won't personally make an appearance. If he were making a return visit we'd have heard the buzz from spoilers. TPTB would certainly want to hype that episode.

Maybe they just want this to be a big, huge surprise that will catch eveyone off guard so they kept it real quiet.:eek:

If not Jack or Hammond, I personally don't know who the heck will show up

shockwave
October 3rd, 2005, 12:04 PM
Geez, I feel sorry for poor little Cameron Bright, people are just getting at him. The only reason I bothered to even watch the Fourth Horsemen was because Cameron was playing Orlin. So maybe he didn't do all that well, heck like every young actor is, he's still learning his craft, for god's sakes he's only 12 years old, let him breath for once. Besides I thought he did fairly well and anyways he isn't playing adult Orlin, he's playing YOUNG Orlin, and kids are like that when they're around older adults, especially if they have a crush on someone AND especially if they are geniuses. And he was also playing a very much liked character with a Star-Studed and amazing cast so you can't blame him for being a little nervous and stiff.

Did anyone notice that Landry was talking on the phone saying, “Have him contact me as soon as he lands.” Could that be a foreshadowing that someone is coming back to help? An old friend perhaps?

There are 3 possibilities as to who this person is:
1. It could be Woosley but he seems to be the most unlikely one because he already appeared in ‘Prototype’ and the actor had no mention that he was doing another guest star.

2. There is always that wee-bit chance that Jack is coming back to help, after all he worked with SG-1 for 8 years, you can’t say that he’s just going to sit on his butt while SG-1 is off in some great danger, and not to mention that Jack has the habit of attracting trouble and besides he’s not going to ignore this big huge plague and not help, that’s just impossible. SG-1 is like a family to him so there’s always a chance that he just couldn’t help it and come to SG-1’s aid (Personally I hope so!!) And I think the team will feel more comfortable and ready with Jack by their side, and I’m not saying that Mitchell is bad, heck I love the guy, but this is a new beginning for the team and Mitchell is just catching on to the game and it will take a while before the team can feel totally right with him. But with Jack right out there on the field with them, there’s not a single Prior that can dent their determination or trust, and no matter what happens they know that Jack will not, not ever let them down, there’s that “I trust you with my life no matter what” thing going on with the old SG-1 team and they’re so comfortable with each other that they’ll not worry that they won’t be able to find a cure, they just know that everything will be all right, I mean they went through hell and back (Literally!!!) and that kind of experience will bind people together forever with unwavering trust!!!

3. My last one and possibly that most likely one is Hammond, since he’s already in the 1st part, there is a more likely chance that he will be in the second part. But there are some big chances that it won’t be Hammond because Landry said “As soon as he lands” and that scene when he’s speaking to the soldiers looked like that he’s already in Colorado so he wouldn’t need to fly on a plane, unless when they rushed him into the car, they took him somewhere else far away. Also there’s a less likely chance that Hammond could actually do anything to help on the field or just supplying knowledge unless they want him to help to give orders. With Jack, he can do both field and knowledge, seeing as how the Asgards love and worships him and that he’s the first human to be able to use the Ancient Knowledge and the chair in the outpost.


it's hammond, DSD mentionned something in an interview about him having a scene with landry where he complains about jack being a screwup (or something) in Washington, and another with SG1 where he has to return to washington to babysit jack (and sg1 to the sgc to babysit landry)

the further destruction of what was once Jack O'Neill :rolleyes:

The Shadow
October 3rd, 2005, 02:42 PM
it's hammond, DSD mentionned something in an interview about him having a scene with landry where he complains about jack being a screwup (or something) in Washington, and another with SG1 where he has to return to washington to babysit jack (and sg1 to the sgc to babysit landry)

the further destruction of what was once Jack O'Neill :rolleyes:

I'm not surprised that Jack is being a troublemaker, but I'd had thought being a Major General in the Air Force and 8 years of experience with the SGC would have told him to behave himself. Then again, it sounds excatly like Jack to screw things up with the politicians, knowing how much Jack loathed them, they've had better luck that Jack hasn't killed them yet (Or something else even worse):D

LtColCarter
October 7th, 2005, 10:07 AM
another great epidsode tonight, i can't wait for part 2

Well, said! Well said!:cool:

Congerking
October 20th, 2005, 06:51 PM
If the Ori get their power from their worshippers, then my question is this. This has been bugging me ever since we learned that. the alterans created all life in our galaxy. the ori said that they they created all the life in their galaxy. then why don't the ori create like 100 trillion people to worship them and suck their "soul"? They have a whole galaxy, just maximize the amount of humans that the galaxy can sustain and drain them. Expand to other galaxies and do the same thing. If draning humans gives them so much power, then why haven't they "sucked" as much power as possible.

One answer to this might be that they are already doing this, but if they are; why do they care about our galaxy then?

Daniel's_twin
October 21st, 2005, 07:46 AM
If the Ori get their power from their worshippers, then my question is this. This has been bugging me ever since we learned that. the alterans created all life in our galaxy. the ori said that they they created all the life in their galaxy. then why don't the ori create like 100 trillion people to worship them and suck their "soul"? They have a whole galaxy, just maximize the amount of humans that the galaxy can sustain and drain them. Expand to other galaxies and do the same thing. If draning humans gives them so much power, then why haven't they "sucked" as much power as possible.

One answer to this might be that they are already doing this, but if they are; why do they care about our galaxy then?

I heard a saying once. What could the most powerful beings in the galaxy possibly want? More power. I'm paraphrasing, but you get the idea. Those who are greedy will never be satisfied with what they've got, especially if they're supposed to be at war with the Ancients.

These, and other cliche's will be available to you tomorrow at 1300 hours! :cool:

BigGator5
October 27th, 2005, 09:55 PM
Whatever the story is behind the "Ancients vs Ori", we are not getting the full story from Orlin.

In fact, I have a theory (let me know if anyone else has come up with this as well):

Ancients helped the Ori Ascend.

timdalton007
November 1st, 2005, 08:58 AM
Intresting theroy BigGator5. The Ancients helped the Ori ascened originaly. But soon the Ori began meddling in the affairs of lower beings. There might have been a battle between them and the ancients left and traveled to our galaxy.

timdalton007

BigGator5
November 5th, 2005, 02:21 PM
I think the whole conflict between the Ori and Alterans was superficial when the Alterans left their home galaxy. When the Alterans ascended, they wanted to include their bothers and sisters of the Ori. When the Ori started acting like gods, the Alterans were horrified and vow never to interfere again (with some going back on their word).

Also, there is something fishy about the story about the plague killing the Alterans. In Hot Zone (http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s1/113.shtml), the Alteran (known as the Ancients then) gene help keep most people healty. Before that, Ayiana in Frozen (http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s6/604.shtml) (an unascended Alteran) was a carrier for an illness. In The Powers That Be (http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s9/905.shtml), Dr Lam said that the Ori plague acts just like the illness in "Frozen".

I do not have enough information to form a theory on how this all fits, but I have gut feeling that it does and the only person who knows is Orlin. When it is all said and done, I think that the Alteran's hands are just as unclean as the Ori.

the fifth man
November 5th, 2005, 07:30 PM
When it is all said and done, I think that the Alteran's hands are just as unclean as the Ori.[/color][/font]

Interesting theory. It would be an nice twist for tptb to take.

BigGator5
November 5th, 2005, 10:04 PM
Well, the story of the Ancients/Alteran has always been that of being incomplete. Just as we think we know everything there is to know, we find we know nothing.

Orlin has only said that the Ori lie to their followers. He has yet to go into detail about the Alteran/Ori history and I think he's advoiding it at this time.

The Signal
December 13th, 2005, 12:59 PM
Wow, now that was a great eposde! But why do we have to wait until the 10th to see the next episode?????????? :mad: Interesting to see Garek, who I thoght to be quite a strong character, turn to origin so easily. The only downside was having Hammond in the episode but hardly using him (that and Dr. Lee's music :P)

Rating 8/9 Chevrons

beale947
December 13th, 2005, 01:14 PM
WHat a great episode. And what a cliffhanger. Can't wait till next week, coz im in the Uk

bcfc
December 13th, 2005, 01:26 PM
Good, Strong episode some funny scenes with Dr Lee and the music, and good to get some insight on the Ori's past.

Glad to see Hammond and Bratak back, and Orlin bit weird seeing him as a kid though. And a good ending with Gerak seeing him as a Prior.

Look forward to the follow up.


:) :D :) :D

The Signal
December 13th, 2005, 01:47 PM
WHat a great episode. And what a cliffhanger. Can't wait till next week, coz im in the Uk

Haha me to, but EVIL Sky One are making us wait till the 10th

beale947
December 13th, 2005, 02:32 PM
Haha me to, but EVIL Sky One are making us wait till the 10th

Oh well, the suspence won't kill me. I hope.


Hallowed are the Ori

Madeleine
December 13th, 2005, 10:42 PM
The tenth? That's next month! AAAAARGH.

This one was very good. I liked the use of Orlin. I almost always like it when long-forgotten characters return, but when they fit as well into the story as Orlin did yesterday, that's a bonus. What he said about the Ori makes them more sinister and also makes the whole Ori/Prior/Worshipper setup more believable. It even redeems the Ascended Ancients a lot - their reason for adhering so rigidly to their Prime Directive suddenly becomes clear.

I liked the title, cos it basically says "a plague breaks loose". Usually I like surprises, but sometimes it's more fun to watch something with a sense of encroaching doom :eek::D.

It was a wonderfully ensemble-ish ep. Each of SG-1, Lam, Landry and Lee got their slice of the action, and Hammond and Bra'tac were welcome cameos. For the first time I got through an entire ep without Landry irritating me, which might have been cos the story was so gripping or maybe I'm developing a tolerance for him - but either way, :):).

There were a lot of close-ups of Sam. Sam's looking much older all of a sudden, but very beautiful. Not many women get more beautiful with age, but AT seems to be managing it. Either that or she's got a better make-up artist this season.

Is it January yet?

P-90_177
December 14th, 2005, 02:48 AM
That was a great ep. But SKY is being turned off at our house cos we can't afford it so I have to wait until the DVD to find out what's gonna happen... Life's a *****!!!

Stricken
December 14th, 2005, 05:16 AM
This was very good. We had a long-forgotten character return and the fact that they fit as well into the story as Orlin did makes is extra special. We seem to find more out about the Ancients in every episode which makes the Ori seem bader and bader each episode. The Ori/Prior/Worshipper was a slight shock but makes some great possibilities.
It involoved some of the best actors on SG-1 with Lam, Landry, Lee, Hammond and Bra'tac all getting air time. There were a lot of close-ups of Sam. Great Cliffhanger ending, can't wait until January :D

The Fourth Horseman, Part 1 recieves a S.G.C rating of 8 out of 9 Chevrons!
http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/8743/arrow2zt.gifhttp://img459.imageshack.us/img459/8743/arrow2zt.gifhttp://img459.imageshack.us/img459/8743/arrow2zt.gifhttp://img459.imageshack.us/img459/8743/arrow2zt.gifhttp://img459.imageshack.us/img459/8743/arrow2zt.gifhttp://img459.imageshack.us/img459/8743/arrow2zt.gifhttp://img459.imageshack.us/img459/8743/arrow2zt.gifhttp://img459.imageshack.us/img459/8743/arrow2zt.gif

Lord Shiva
December 15th, 2005, 02:42 PM
I just wish the Ori didn't go from 3-dimensional evil guys to 2-dimensional "suck the faith out of followers" monsters.

Still enjoying it though. :)

IMForeman
December 16th, 2005, 06:51 PM
So, I've been sick since Tuesday, right. And they get to Four Horseman today, and I have pretty much those exact symptoms! I have Prior Plague!

Johnquixote
December 16th, 2005, 07:08 PM
So, I've been sick since Tuesday, right. And they get to Four Horseman today, and I have pretty much those exact symptoms! I have Prior Plague!
That really sucks for you!

I loved this episode for every reason that's already been mentioned. Can't wait til the 6th o' January.

Sorry Sky One viewers.

the fifth man
December 16th, 2005, 09:38 PM
Can't wait til the 6th o' January.



Man do I hear that.:) I never thought it would get here, but it really isn't that far off anymore. The 6th of January, yes, it will be a blessed day.

IMForeman
December 17th, 2005, 01:09 PM
Damn. I'm getting better. Guess it's not Prior Plague. I was so hoping for a trip to the SGC. ;)

Daniel's_twin
December 18th, 2005, 05:50 PM
I don't think we'd want it considering the spoilers I've been reading.:cool:

Chaka's_Mum
December 19th, 2005, 11:44 PM
I like the revelation of what Origin really means for followers. It was inevitable that the Ori would have an ulterior motive (hey - they're bad guys. That means they always have an ulterior motive ;) ), and surprise, surprise, it's a biggy. They wanna wipe out the Ancients - and they're using a hokey religion to do it. Talk about bad taste...

I also enjoyed the way that Orlin was trying to interact with Sam - despite being a kiddie, he still fancies her! Now that's what I call uncomfortable!

And what a cliffhanger! The look on Bra'tac's and Teal'c's faces was an utter picture.

The only good thing about having to wait until January is that I don't have to hope like hell that the Gatwick Premier Travelodge has Sky One...:D

Roll on Part 2

Daniel's_twin
December 20th, 2005, 07:22 AM
My dad thought that they rushed this plot line too much, but I think that they did need to explain why the Ori are so interested in us, especially after Daniel had popped the question back in The Powers That Be. It was a good move to go for it in this summer finale rather then the season finale, or too many people would've thought they were never gonna answer the question. :cool:

mentalmichael
January 5th, 2006, 07:34 AM
I liked this ep a lot. We learn that the Ori are (surprise surprise) even more evil than we thought, and it's a good cliff hanger. I didn't like Orlin coming back as a kid though. I thought the actor did a good job, but why bother?

Best moment though was when Mitchell + the others were ambushed, and Mitchell just instantly reacted and started kicking ass. Admittedly he didn't win, but it was still cool to see that his experience in Babylon will continue to be useful. More hand to hand stuff!

cafine_us
January 5th, 2006, 02:50 PM
I liked this ep a lot. We learn that the Ori are (surprise surprise) even more evil than we thought, and it's a good cliff hanger. I didn't like Orlin coming back as a kid though. I thought the actor did a good job, but why bother?
Orlin was needed for the plot, but Sean Patrick Flanery, who played Orlin in Ascension, was unavailable. Using a kid was an easy and creative way to use the same character with a different actor.

mentalmichael
January 5th, 2006, 02:55 PM
Orlin was needed for the plot, but Sean Patrick Flanery, who played Orlin in Ascension, was unavailable. Using a kid was an easy and creative way to use the same character with a different actor.
Oh ok, fair enough then. Plus it led to us watching a 10 year old declaring his love for sam!

Ascended Times.2
January 5th, 2006, 09:01 PM
Oh ok, fair enough then. Plus it led to us watching a 10 year old declaring his love for sam!

-shudders- Probably the most disturbin' part of that episode...lol, all in all, i'd give it a 9/10 looses a point for the kid actor though :( (yes, I know it was a...necesity :))

NakedJehutyV2
January 5th, 2006, 09:40 PM
This has been mentioned WAY too many times before, and it's getting kinda old. :( Everyone's a critic, but this is just ridiculous.

While I admit that the actor seems to get similar roles all the time, it's been said that Bright based his performance off of SPF's original portrayal, and I think he was cast specifically for his style. Flannery did it MUCH the same way three years ago.

I'm with the fifth man: Putting down the actor is not good at all... :S


according to this ep sam had an intimate relationship with orlin? did he bang her? i have't gotten to that ep yet but did he?

jonno
January 6th, 2006, 07:39 AM
according to this ep sam had an intimate relationship with orlin? did he bang her? i have't gotten to that ep yet but did he?

Sort of ... in an ascended kind of way (lot's of white light enveloping Sam :sam34: )

Daniel's_twin
January 6th, 2006, 07:53 PM
Sort of like Ascended Ancient Mind-melding, sharing with her his emotions and feelings for her. :cool:

Jeffer
January 12th, 2006, 08:03 PM
What an ep WHAT AN EP

and i ahve to wait a whole week to see part 2 next Thurs the Four Hoursemen Part 2 i can't WAIT

Trek_Girl42
January 12th, 2006, 10:10 PM
What an ep WHAT AN EP

and i ahve to wait a whole week to see part 2 next Thurs the Four Hoursemen Part 2 i can't WAIT

THAT WAS AWSOME!!! I just saw it too. I was practically screaming when it said "TO BE CONTINUED". It felt like only ten minutes had gone by.....and Gerak becoming a Prior.....I was SO glad to have avoided spoilers. The guest cast was wonderful! I'm practically jumping with excitement for next Thursday- it's gonna be a LONG week.
:docianime15: :prioranime01: :samanime24:

SeaBee
February 15th, 2006, 05:38 PM
Things definately picked up with this ep.

It's a shame that they didn't bring back Orlin as he was before, but perhaps the actor wasn't available.

A little slow, as most part 1s tend to be, but the story built up nicely to the end.

Rottie
July 25th, 2006, 05:08 AM
What a great episode!!
I love the part where Sam comes into the lab and Dr lee has his full blast rock music on,sooo coool.
And the bit where Orlin turns up,especially the cantene part...very cool but at the same time I cringed.:o

phaeton
August 31st, 2006, 03:44 PM
I loved it was a fantastic ep overall with enough character development for everyone,Carter had to deal with Orlin, Mitchell finding people infected by the virus,Teal'c with JN, Daniel, Landry & Lam with the whole situation.
It was great to see Gen. Hammond & Bra'tac I miss them so much, the very end when Gerak came into the room as a Prior that was a great SG1 moment.

IMO this episode had the most fullness of the whole season I can't wait till part 2.

10/10 best ep of season :)

Arga
February 14th, 2007, 05:25 AM
i finally watched this episode yesterday! It was great, except for one part...

in the opening sequence (the "previously on stargate SG-1" bit), they should use SPOILERS tags!!!!
The fact that we were reminded of a scene from the episode with Orlin, just gave a clue that the mysterious distorted-camera-angle viewer that was looking at Sam must be no one else than Orlin! it was too obvious...
On the other hand, the episode was very instructive.

camulus13
May 11th, 2007, 07:42 AM
I though the whole science vs religion thing between the Alterans and the Ori was kind of dumb and blatant. I also didn't like the explanation that the Ori magically get more power the more people that worship them. I though that was kind of a lame explanation; I was hoping for something more climactic. That said, I'm glad that Gossett was able to show the internal strife Gerak had going on while converting. It wouldn't have been so clean-cut.


Actually it is good because it explains the ori's cause for converting the universe to origin. and then we later learn that with the saangraal that they needed power so they can destroy the ancients. mabye the ori knew about the saangraal and then started the holy crusade.

garhkal
May 11th, 2007, 09:39 PM
How would they have known about it? Even daniel did not until later on..

JohnDuh
March 7th, 2008, 09:50 AM
Mitchell absolutely did the right thing in telling those two to STFU. Lam should have thier respect because one these days, she might be saving thier lives.


Appreciating her beauty has nothing to do with appreciating her medical prowess.



And of course the whole sexual harrassment thing. I'm sure when your at work, you wouldn't want someone making some crude comment like that about you and the boss doing nothing about it.


If someone found me attractive yes, i most certainly would want to know about. There was nothing pejorative about that.

garhkal
March 7th, 2008, 04:42 PM
I thnk mitchel was doing the gentlemanly thing and defending the honor of his boss' daughter.. plus he might have been sweet on her himself.

JohnDuh
March 7th, 2008, 06:16 PM
I thnk mitchel was doing the gentlemanly thing and defending the honor of his boss' daughter.. plus he might have been sweet on her himself.

I seem to remember TPTB had original thought about perhaps creating a romance between those two - apparently there are small signs pointing in that direction - but they quickly dropped it for some reason.

master ry'an
March 28th, 2008, 04:41 AM
i want a new stargate season 10!!!! but it went bye-bye:sholva::(

Vortez
May 19th, 2008, 08:17 PM
What's the tunes Dr. Lee's listening too... I can't make up what Sam said:
"Dark (something)"
can someone tell me what band it is?

Dumper
May 20th, 2008, 03:38 PM
I think the name of the band was Dark Pariah, but i remember reading somewhere that the name of the band was made up for the episode.

nhytfahl
August 7th, 2008, 04:55 PM
I'm a little confused. I've watched the first 8 seasons, complete as I purchased the sets ... now I'm watching Season 9, and there is stuff in the "Previously, on Stargate SG-1" intros, that I don't remember seeing ANYWHERE in any of the previous episodes ... and I've watched them all.

In particular, in this episode, there is a scene of Daniel talking to what seems to be a Prior with wing-like things around his head, where he's saying something about not killing people for not worshiping him. In which episode did that happen?

I also don't recall seeing the episode where a Prior comes to Stargate Command and sets himself on fire in the briefing room ... that was in one of the "Previously" sections, as well ...

I'm feeling a little discontinuity here. Are those episodes in Atlantis, or in some separate movie special that's not part of the regular season packs?

__________________

ETA: Never mind. It seems that, even though I selected "Play All" from the DVD menu, Disc 1 seems to have skipped past Episode 3, Origins.

Now that I've seen that, things make a bit more sense.

*bonk self*

suse
August 7th, 2008, 07:11 PM
Mitchell absolutely did the right thing in telling those two to STFU. Lam should have thier respect because one these days, she might be saving thier lives. And of course the whole sexual harrassment thing. I'm sure when your at work, you wouldn't want someone making some crude comment like that about you and the boss doing nothing about it.

Except the boss did worse to *his* subordinate. He (with his daughter also 'teasing') basically accused Sam of pedophilia. Ha. Ha. NOT.

suse

es!
January 30th, 2010, 12:23 PM
Mini-Orlin is so cute. I LMAO when Sam chocked on her food after he said he was sorry they could not "show affection the way I wish I could"
:lol:

mrscopterdoc
April 6th, 2010, 09:53 PM
Loved this one! :D

maneth
December 20th, 2010, 10:09 AM
This double ep is definitely the best of the season so far. Wonderful!

mathpiglet
May 9th, 2011, 03:26 PM
I liked the Sam/Orlin interaction, but mostly...it's Ori...I don't like Ori.

Jae'a
April 13th, 2012, 12:26 PM
My LiveJournal post (http://jo-r-lee.livejournal.com/48760.html)

I was starting to miss Bra'tac :P

mathpiglet
April 13th, 2012, 01:13 PM
Looks like I last viewed this episode almost a year ago. Comments remain the same.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
April 13th, 2012, 04:30 PM
One of the best episodes this season. Can't wait till January
Dr. (Bob) Lee's best episode of the whole series.
It's Bill, not Bob (or Dick ;)). Beachhead is still the best episode of Season 9.

That cliffhanger was pretty cool.

Monday, the conclusion, the Ori wipe out Earth, or do they.

Jae'a
April 14th, 2012, 05:49 AM
Abydos, I think you need a bit of a refresher on the guest characters' first names! :P

Krisz
April 15th, 2012, 03:31 PM
Always liked the title of this two parter.

One of the more tolerable episodes of season 9 with the Ori in them. Mainly due to watching Gerak being taken in by the promises of Origin and tormented with the awful choice of facing up to his fellow Jaffa who don't share his belief in what the Ori could do for his people.

Cameron Bright gave a poignant performance as the self-sacrificing Ancient Orlin who gave up everything to give the mortals of the lower planes a fighting chance against the terrible threat the Ori posed. I guess the Ancients' motto of not interfering with freedom of choice meant they couldn't stop Orlin choosing to do this, and at least one Ancient wanted to continue to protect the Milky Way humans from the Ori.

jelgate
April 15th, 2012, 05:15 PM
SG-1 has done pathogens spreading into the general public before but in the past it just comes off poorly done. I actually think this was done well enough in accepetable limits. I say acceptable limits because thier are just some things in the real world that can not be realasticlly transfered to television. The episode had a real epidemlogical feel to it as the virus spread through the US and then overseas. The Orlin and Sam stuff kind of makes me cringe especially the relationship stuff. Why would Orlin think things are same when he was 20 years younger. Although the insight of why the Ori are coming to the Milky Way was interesting. Finally given how Garek was so opposed to the Ori at the start of the episode its interesting to watch sway to their side. Interesting but not surprising given how Garek always is trying to get more power

Lieutenant Sparrow
April 16th, 2012, 03:52 AM
Eh I wasn't as impressed with this ep as most people seem to be.

Kid Orlin's actor put on a good performance. Bit creepy cracking onto Sam though haha. Sad to see him deteriorate so quickly.

Trust Gerak to become a prior. Weak. I thought of all people who would be able to talk sense into him would be Bra'tak. But he wasn't able to which surprised me.

LT. COL. John Sheppard
April 16th, 2012, 04:08 AM
meh i this ep could have been better Part 2 was better though

Matt G
April 20th, 2012, 04:58 PM
1. Interesting banter between Mitchell and Daniel...also interesting line about Lam...implied something spicy between Mitchell and Lam.

2. Gerak going Ori - heard about this but it played out more interesting than I thought it would.

3. Is that...Hammond! Yes!

4. Prior fart causing trouble...suppose that this is just about plausible.

5. Junior Orlin actually looked slightly older than expected.

How are the Jaffa in particular going to get out of this one?

LT. COL. John Sheppard
April 20th, 2012, 05:26 PM
4. Prior fart causing trouble...suppose that this is just about plausible.

???

Matt G
April 22nd, 2012, 10:03 AM
Listen to the S9 podcast

LionHamster
April 13th, 2015, 01:08 PM
Or make one they probably know what anubis did to the clone to give him his powers

enibas5
July 29th, 2015, 02:00 AM
I liked the plot and the writing.
Unfortunately I am getting distracted from all the good points of this ep. by that awful performance of little Orlin.
And since he has so much on screen time, the whole ep. suffers from that.
I consider this to be a huge director's fault. That kid probably could have done better, if being directed properly. He must have been around 12 years old at that time. So, you cannot just tell a kid, "do a character that delivers lines without much emotion" and expect him to fully understand, how this has to work out.
For me, the result is not a "dry" Orlin-character of young age, but a stiff young actor, who is lost. It is the director's task to correct this and I blame him for letting that kid appear to be such a bad actor.

garhkal
July 29th, 2015, 04:45 PM
I do agree, the kid actor did seem rather deadpan in his acting. Compare to several of the other kid actors i have seen, this pick was rather a weak one imo.

jelgate
July 29th, 2015, 05:36 PM
I don't. A director can not make a bad actor into a good actor if they lack the talent.

enibas5
July 29th, 2015, 10:38 PM
I don't. A director can not make a bad actor into a good actor if they lack the talent.
No, of course not. But this performance was soooo bad, that I think it is highly unlikely that this kid could have ever been convincing while auditioning, if he was really such a bad actor. Why should they cast a kid without any acting talent? That does not make sense, does it?
I think, it is way more likely, that the director failed to recognize, that in the end, this way of doing young Orlin comes across as monotone line delivery, instead of a decent dry and shy Orlin, as we first got to know him as an adult.

garhkal
August 4th, 2015, 12:13 AM
Which is strange as the actor (Cameron Bright) has had some decent roles outside of Orlin..
Heck he was in 2 films i own/have seen that i never remembered him in the spot.. Xmen 3 (he played Leech) and running scared.

Anja
October 17th, 2015, 05:19 AM
Mitchell and Dr Lam - there is something!! (There is another scene in a different ep when they step out of a lift and meet Landry!!!)
I liked the way the kid acted - it fitted into the role IMO.
Good cliffhanger. On DVD you just watch the next part - haha.:rolleyes:

Claire98909
October 17th, 2015, 10:15 AM
So what's the consensus here regarding Landry's "intimate relationship " comment? Does it mean Orlin and Sam had sex in Ascension?

Anja
October 17th, 2015, 11:10 AM
So what's the consensus here regarding Landry's "intimate relationship " comment? Does it mean Orlin and Sam had sex in Ascension?

????? sorry, no comprende

garhkal
October 18th, 2015, 11:54 PM
Someone can be intimate, without actual sex.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
October 19th, 2015, 08:12 AM
What?! Sacrilege. How can you say that? There's always sex.

[please note this is sarcasm]

Seaboe

Claire98909
October 26th, 2015, 02:52 PM
Someone can be intimate, without actual sex.

Then why did Carter look so horrified when little Orlin said he wanted to resume their relationship?

Anja
October 27th, 2015, 03:00 AM
Then why did Carter look so horrified when little Orlin said he wanted to resume their relationship?

She looked that way because he was a child - even touching his cheek or hand could create problems!!

garhkal
October 27th, 2015, 04:35 PM
She looked that way because he was a child - even touching his cheek or hand could create problems!!

True. Most adults seem to flinch reflexively when a "kid" wants a relationship of that nature..

BethHG
July 25th, 2018, 01:18 PM
Aww--Orlin is back, and this time he is form of a boy! I really love the character of Orlin. Yet again, he is sacrificing himself to help the residents of Earth ( Sam included :) ).

Ori Plague = bad news

Garek turns into a prior-- no good can come from that. :prioranime07: