PDA

View Full Version : Final Cut (208)



GateWorld
September 8th, 2005, 10:18 AM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s2/"><IMG SRC="http://www.scifistream.com/wp-content/uploads/2082.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px solid black" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">GALACTICA SEASON TWO</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s2/" STYLE="text-decoration: none">FINAL CUT</A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 208</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
A reporter is brought to Galactica to document the military life during wartime after criticism of the military reaches a fever pitch.

<FONT SIZE=1><B><A HREF="http://www.scifistream.com/battlestar-galactica/s2/">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B></FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

Vyse
September 9th, 2005, 08:01 PM
Glad to finally hear the original Galactica theme music again!

yaaayoubetcha
September 9th, 2005, 08:02 PM
awesome ep!

definately my fave of the season.

excellent ending!

mmm Lucy Lawless

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
September 9th, 2005, 08:02 PM
Good episode. It was just like SG-1's Heroes (both parts), but with a better ending.

yaaayoubetcha
September 9th, 2005, 08:03 PM
Glad to finally hear the original Galactica theme music again!

yah...that was a nice touch.

also very nice to hear Lucy's natural voice. took a few mins to get used to it, so used to her being americanized.

Lt. Elliot
September 9th, 2005, 08:05 PM
Oh my gods! Oh my gods! OH MY GODS! This episode was too much and just plain amazing! Words cannot describe...but somehow I will try.

First off, D'Anna Biers. Loved the accent. She was brash, bold, and willing to do whatever to get her story.

Second, Kat. Wow. Now that is a soldier who has finally succumbed to stress. Very moving I have to say.

Third, Tigh's death threat. It was bound to happen, right? Not surprised it was the guy from the Gideon Massacre, but I was actually yelling "KILL HIM! KILL HIM! DO IT!" But I mean, if he had shot Tigh, then all the goodiness of hating Tigh would be gone. At least I got the satisfaction of seeing Ellen Tigh all tied up.

Fourth, the ending. WOW! Both things...
1. The ending of the tape was awesome! Everything Biers said was amazing and the footage rocked! Reminds me 100% of Heroes from Stargate.
2. She's a Cylon! Did that actually surprise anyone? Cuz I figured that out fast. It was just cool to see her with Boomer, Six, and Aaron Doral.

Finally, when Biers is reviewing the episode and she rewinds and sees the dude who theatened Tigh...I either pay much attention to detail or my eyes decieve me, but I think I saw some CAG Booty. Like right before she says rewind, it pans past Apollo...I think he showed some skin in the back. But the whole towel slipping scene was hilarious.

AWESOME! Second favorite episode of the season, after Home Part 2.

yaaayoubetcha
September 9th, 2005, 08:10 PM
Third, Tigh's death threat. It was bound to happen, right? Not surprised it was the guy from the Gideon Massacre, but I was actually yelling "KILL HIM! KILL HIM! DO IT!" But I mean, if he had shot Tigh, then all the goodiness of hating Tigh would be gone. At least I got the satisfaction of seeing Ellen Tigh all tied up.




i was shouting 'shoot her! shoot her!'

Lt. Elliot
September 9th, 2005, 08:11 PM
i was shouting 'shoot her! shoot her!'

I was more or less yelling "SHOOT HIM OR SHOOT HER! ONE TIGH NEEDS TO DIE!" :p

tsaxlady
September 9th, 2005, 08:13 PM
I'm going to watch this episode again tonight. But my first thoughts are WOW great episode. My personal favorite so far this season. Yeah it was cool hearing Stu Phillips theme played and whistled in the episode tonight.

Biers the new Cylon - well I look forward to when we see her again because she so has the trust of Adama and the President. Great new cylon -

CKO
September 9th, 2005, 08:14 PM
more like shoot them both.. hate the wife and tigh well he's just a plain ass.

oh yes GAC booty NICE!!!!!!!!

Redwall
September 9th, 2005, 08:21 PM
The end was a little too predictable (except for the final scene, of course) but it was nice to learn more about some of our secondary characters.

Also, Anastasia Dualla! Hahahahahaha.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
September 9th, 2005, 08:29 PM
1. The ending of the tape was awesome! Everything Biers said was amazing and the footage rocked! Reminds me 100% of Heroes from Stargate.

I said that in my post. Did you even read it?

Lt. Elliot
September 9th, 2005, 08:31 PM
I said that in my post. Did you even read it?

I typed mine up without even reading any other posts. Sorry about that.

sharky277
September 9th, 2005, 08:48 PM
What's the whole "From the darkness you must fall" passage that starbuck said?

LoneStar1836
September 9th, 2005, 10:17 PM
Actually this episode felt off to me……especially the first time I watched. Yes I’ve already watched it a second time and it held up better, but I still wouldn’t call it a favorite, though the sentiment it expressed didn't go unappreciated…..…..But it went and totally redeemed itself when it was revealed that Biers was a Cylon. No, I wasn’t expecting that though Six hints at it to Baltar.

(Oh and btw you do not have to use spoiler tags in this thread if you are discussing this episode or past episodes. You only need tags for future episodes.)

Just loved Gaeta’s interview. :D Felix. I never would have guessed. And Dee’s was insightful as well. I appreciate how Moore gives these supposed “secondary” characters so much depth and background. They feel much more like main characters to me. There’s just not enough room in the credits for them….

I had already guessed it was going to be the pilot threatening Tigh about half way through. Poor guy. He was put in an impossible situation and it got ugly and was now something he had to live with everyday.

I like Tigh. I find him to be an interesting character. Just like his job description as XO, the character is there to be hated yet is very valuable. Though I don’t hate him, I just don’t think he is the sharpest tack in the bin when it come to certain things and would like to slap him for being so stupid and weak minded at times. Like him being foolish enough to fall for Biers’s set up of offering him a drink. Thankfully he did come to his senses.

Adam’s big “Yes” with the fist pump when the raiders were taken out actually scared me. I was like where did that come from. I know the guy was shot and all and has changed but……it felt out of character to me.

Interesting watching the emotions of Six and crew as they watched the video footage and then their reactions to seeing Sharon alive. They are an interesting bunch in between some of their religious gabbing, which I find laid on a bit thick at times.

Lt. Elliot
September 9th, 2005, 10:51 PM
I just rewatched some of it and first off, they do show Apollo's butt, but briefly. I wonder if that was accidental or on purpose?

Second, I really like Dee even more now. I love how they developed her so far in this one episode, as well as a few. She's taken a big leap in this season.

And I was like 100% positive I didn't need to put spoilers in an episode topic talking about the episode. Glad someone recleared it up for me.

grover
September 9th, 2005, 11:02 PM
Galactica has gone 0-2 since I joined this board. I'll willingly leave if it will improve the quality of the program.

See, the "putting a human face" angle has been done to death, and I'm afraid that "Final Cut" didn't bring anything new to the table. But they can't all be winners and I thought it was still a solid show. I liked seeing Gaeta and Kat get some screen time. I liked the tip of the cap when Starbuck challenged Xena... er I... I mean, Lawless's character to a match.

But the big reveal at the end was pathetic.

The reporter was a Cylon. Whoopie!

This episode should have never happened. The Cylon detector actually works and if I was going to give someone "unrestricted access" I'd make sure they were tested first. They find out she's a cylon and next thing you know she's in a brig or out the airlock.

When did the writers get stupid?

LoneStar1836
September 9th, 2005, 11:11 PM
This episode should have never happened. The Cylon detector actually works and if I was going to give someone "unrestricted access" I'd make sure they were tested first. They find out she's a cylon and next thing you know she's in a brig or out the airlock.

When did the writers get stupid?Baltar is in charge of testing. He has no intention or seems to have no intention of outing any Cylons if they test positive. I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't rigged the detector to pass everybody to save himself the headache. So having Biers tested wouldn’t have made any difference.

Liebestraume
September 10th, 2005, 12:04 AM
Actually this episode felt off to me……Finally! All the praises upthread made me think I must be a little crazy for not totally loving this episode.

But first things first ... Lee, now I know why his call-sign is Apollo. There goes a very ... physically fit guy. Ahem.

I like what BSG is doing for their secondary characters. The insight we gained on Dee's relationship with her father is quite special, for now we know where her console for Adama (in the last episode) stemmed from. That was nice -- and quite unexpected -- continuity there. And a smoking Gaeta with collar unbottoned? That was quite amusing.

It was nice seeing the choices people made in earlier episodes are now bearing consequences. One in particular, Tigh; but it was not played out in a heavy-handed manner a la many lesser shows. Instead, we hear Adama speaking of the burden of conscience, and we wonder how much he was talking about Tigh and how much, himself. And finally we see Tigh owing up to his responsibility at the moment of confrontation.

SG-1 has a similar episode called Heros which was among my favorite of that series. I like Final Cut for the same truth that it revealed, that real heroism is not about always doing the right thing; instead it's ordinary people in the service of others, "warts and all." But the emotional upswing here was cut short by the final reveal. It was cruel as well as cool, as I am sure it sets up for what comes up the next week.

Overall, a nice filler episode, if not overly memorable -- with the possible exception of Lee. I am looking forward to the plethora of screencaps. :D

Carbito
September 10th, 2005, 12:53 AM
It was a decient episode but no where near being one of the best. It was obviously intended to be somewhat of a filler episode, however it did reveal quite a lot of interesting character developments as well as providing a way for the writers to introduce the new Cylon model.

Is it just me or did anyone else think there was perhaps something more behind the way she interacted with Dee?

aAnubiSs
September 10th, 2005, 05:39 AM
Awsome ep.

Shipperahoy
September 10th, 2005, 08:01 AM
Not that I'm complaining (not at all believe me) but it makes me laugh that Kat had a towel that covered her well but Lee has what looks like a handtowel that only covers the good bits.

Anyway, I think that this was a so-so episode. It felt a bit slow to me and there was no real sense of suspense but that's fine because I don't think that it was meant to. This one was a character piece, meant to give us some more personal insights into the characters, and it did that well IMO. I felt that the Biers being a Cylon was kind of overkill and it left me confused as to what her purpose for making such a pro-Galactica documentary could be. Did she go to all that trouble just to find out if Sharon and the baby were alive? If so then why make the Galactica look good to the rest of the fleet? I'm sure it's one of those things that will be answered farther down the line and it leaves the door open for Lucy Lawless to return, which is great because I'm a fan.

tsaxlady
September 10th, 2005, 12:10 PM
Not that I'm complaining (not at all believe me) but it makes me laugh that Kat had a towel that covered her well but Lee has what looks like a handtowel that only covers the good bits.

Anyway, I think that this was a so-so episode. It felt a bit slow to me and there was no real sense of suspense but that's fine because I don't think that it was meant to. This one was a character piece, meant to give us some more personal insights into the characters, and it did that well IMO. I felt that the Biers being a Cylon was kind of overkill and it left me confused as to what her purpose for making such a pro-Galactica documentary could be. Did she go to all that trouble just to find out if Sharon and the baby were alive? If so then why make the Galactica look good to the rest of the fleet? I'm sure it's one of those things that will be answered farther down the line and it leaves the door open for Lucy Lawless to return, which is great because I'm a fan.

My take on this is you now have a cylon in the fleet that both Adama and President Roslin trust and like because of the positive documentary. So we have a civil that will have access to both the military and civilian government. Think of the power of the press to influence people. It was a set up for things to come. I do look forward to Lucy's return.

coolove
September 10th, 2005, 12:15 PM
Wow. That ending was so unexpected. I almost choked on my food. I can't believe she's a cylon. I did not see that coming. Other then that the episode was okay.

microzstar
September 10th, 2005, 01:31 PM
I thought that it was nice getting a closer, more intimate look at all of the characters, but it all seemed sort of off, and not up to the usual standards. I suppose the writers just got a little lax: some things weren't exactly the most logical.

Gripes: The whole 2 cylon raiders... gasp we're all going to die... That seemed sort of played up. I mean, if just 2 came wouldn't they be suspicious? Expect more? Not just be like... okay, we killed them. Yay. I don't know, that just seemed incredibly staged to me. (yes, I know, they served a "purpose" in getting the video back to the Cylons but... still it didn't work right)

And Kara was a little out of character this ep, too. I'm just not used to her being all helpy, and around all-the-time to split up fights and guide in pilots who can't land. I mean, every problem- poof! Kara's there.

And also, I really thought that from the promos, the whole thing with Sharon's baby would be a little more important, not just a couple of seconds. That was just totally cast aside, and I really don't know why. I wonder what happened. They never said.

I hope the next episode will be more coherent and more like the exciting ones that we've seen. But that said... it was a pretty good ep. I really liked the perspective into Gaeta's personal life... haha. That was really great. And Kara and Lee was pretty nice, too. So all in all, it wasn't a terrible ep. I just hope this suspended reality is just a short-term engagement...

Aadizookaan
September 10th, 2005, 01:56 PM
Real Good Episode.

I enjoyed the whole thing, except for this one little thing: the Cylons make a big deal, saying over and over again, that once the human models are killed their consciousness is downloaded into another body. But at the end of this one episode - the human cylons didn't know Sharon was alive or dead for that matter. They were all suprised. So, does a cylon die just like the wee humans or what?

microzstar
September 10th, 2005, 02:44 PM
Yeah, I found it quite wierd that they didn't already know. I always thought that they like... knew everything!

Thermonuclearboy
September 10th, 2005, 02:54 PM
Great episode. Gaeta lets it all hang out? That was bizarre.

All this talk about CAG-booty leads me to speak up on behalf of the heterosexual males in the audience, and draw attention to Starbuck, those stomach muscles all taut and glistening with sweat, and ready to take you down and make you thank her afterwards...

Excuse me a moment...

Kazper
September 10th, 2005, 03:04 PM
Please have the courtesy to use the tag (SPOILER in []) to hide spoilers. Edit the original post and I'll take back the RED.

Nonsense. Spoiler tag is not needed in the thread about an aired episode. Only in all other threads. If you go in here it's because you've seen the ep or are willing to accept the spoilers.

As for the spisode - it really wasn't a favorite of mine either even if I can't say exactly why it felt "wrong" to me. But it did some really good character development, and definitely had some high points, so I'm not complaining. THere needs to be room for that too.

Redwall
September 10th, 2005, 03:09 PM
Sharon betrayed the Cylons, and probably severed all connection with them (as indicated by a few lines in "Home"). Add that to the transfer's distance factor (mentioned in "Flesh and Bone") and there's no reason for the Cylons to assume Sharon was still alive.

Also, they mentioned the baby survived.

Mr. Seven
September 10th, 2005, 04:43 PM
This wasn't a bad episode at all. I thought that the whole cast acted superbly. Especially the supporting cast members like Kat, Gata, etc..

And how could the ladies complain when they almost saw Apollo's arrow.

SGalisa
September 10th, 2005, 05:08 PM
Mrs. (cylon) Tigh wasn't so annoying tonight. I actually felt sorry for her, and maybe that was because Deanna came to her rescue, albeit due to a timing factor? Col.Tigh's reaction to the camera at the end (it was almost in his face!) was great! Gosh, the poor guy can't have any privacy. And he's smart too - knowing when he was being set up - scene during the "alcoholic" interview...

won't go into details of the scenes with Chief and Kat, and the leaking hydrolic or drugs -frustration and desperation stuff. ...but -Proof that the secondary characters are just as significant as primary (more familiar named) ones. ;)

Deanna is a cylon?! that makes sense, since "guardian" Six whispered how helpful she'd be to Baltar. So, what is the Boomer in the theater? just another cylon copy? And Six's surprising reaction in the theater - she didn't know about the baby, meaning she's not directly linked to Baltar's "guardian" Six?

liked the musical tribute to the original BSG theme from the original series. ...janitor guy whistling it in the hallway... very nice. :) If nothing else - that musical theme was the hallmark stamp of the entire BSG series. And the way it got included at the end, was very nice to hear against the visual montage of how resilient and steadfast the few who are left, are making it thru their difficult life, moment by moment.

========
I know Lucy Lawless is going for a different appearance- using her native accent and lightened hair, but I miss the striking contrast of her bottled darker hair (from Xena) from bringing out the beautiful blue hues in her eyes. She has extremely exquisite blue eyes; and either the BSG lighting doesn't do it justice, or her lightened (strawberry blond) hair overpowers the emphasis of her eyes. I don't remember if her natural auburn (seen in a "Hercules" ep) toned it down enough to see how beautiful her eyes truly are.

Easter Lily
September 10th, 2005, 06:59 PM
Oh my... a Kiwi with a Kiwi accent... *mock surprise*... I can't believe they let her keep her accent... *faints in shock* Hysterics aside, I am surprised Lucy Lawless was allowed to use her Nu Zeeland accent... but in a good way... :D Now, for someone from across the Tasman to make an appearance... *taps table expectantly*

I didn't mind the episode overall... but I struggled to maintain any real interest in the first half of the episode. Not sure why... Could be it reminded me of SG-1's Heroes or could it be that everyone looked like they were going through the motions? :S The Dee angle was good and watching Gaeta puffing away flippantly was rather unexpected. It certainly showed another side to his character. But it gave me the impression that it was a very bitsy, light episode, at least in the first half... It could also be that not seeing any of the main characters as much as we have in the past several episodes left one feeling a little empty.
Of course, the acting was great as usual... and some nice interaction between Lee and Kara, and various members of the crew with D'Biers... Nice to see Lee doing his CAG thing -- quite revealing on different levels. :p But the show lacked the usual "oompf" we've come to expect from BSG. Quite honestly, I thought this whole scenario was better done on Stargate...

Gargen
September 10th, 2005, 07:33 PM
Wow that was so cool, just makes me hate Tigh even more

anotherquestion
September 10th, 2005, 08:23 PM
This episode, for the first time in a long time, gave me the feeling that the Cylon's Plan was really rich, textured, nuanced, and even more inscrutable than I'd previously thought.

I'd never subscribed (nor do I now) to the theory that the Cylons were so much in control that they were able to "micro-manange" every small action of the fleet, like Starbuck's defeat and recovery of the Cylon Raider, for example.

On the other hand, it never appeared that the Cylon plan was as simple as "kill all of humanity". The Helo and Sharon Caprica experiment and "The Farm" shows that Cylon's have an interest in preserving at least small numbers of humans for breeding purposes. But the details in surprise ending of "Final Cut" lead to many, somtimes contradictory, inferences about the scope of Cylon capabilities.

The Cylons apparently can track the position of the fleet easily. That's why they sent two Raiders to relay the video feed back.
Cylons "tracking at a distance" does not mean they have the ability to transmit large volumes of data from a distance. Hence the need for the relays from the Raiders.
Sharon is not feeding information directly back to the Cylon community. Neither is Number 6 (or the 7 other Cylons in the fleet). Otherwise Sharon's existence would not have been a surprise to the Cylon "audience" at the end.
Number 6 in the audience seems delighted at the "resilience" of the Fleet. Why would this be her reaction? It is inconsistent with every other Number 6 reaction we've seen to date.
This sentiment is not at all shared by Baltar's "internal" Number 6, who label humans as "masters of self destruction". Of course Baltar's 6 has exhibited so many inconsistencies, lies, and half-truthes over the last few episodes that nothing she says now can be taken at face value. I'd never believed that Baltar's Number 6 was simply a product of his internal psychosis until Home (2), but that is now the way the writer's are leading us.
The video, and outtakes, transmitted to the Cylon audience contain material filmed after the destruction of the Raiders. The "relay" must have survived the destruction of the Raiders themselves, like a hardened "black box" survives the crash of an aircraft. That way it could transfer the "Final Cut" (An inspired Title).
Why was the final cut of the video produced as it was by the Cylon agent? Clearly it had the effect of boosting morale among the fleet even with the "warts and all" depiction of the military. Why does the Cylon Plan appear to encourage the many small victories by the Colonials at the considerable sacrifice of Cylon resources?
The footage seen by the Cylons appeared to be the "Final Cut" (i.e. with all the editing, music and voiceovers in place) as well as the raw footage that would have never been broadcast to the fleet, for security reasons (even though Adama left the choice to be a matter of conscience for the journalist). This implies that the "relays" provided by the doomed Raiders were not simple relays of the Colonial broadcasts, but covert transmissions from the Cylon Agent.
We've seen that there appear to be different assesments of the capabilities and "value" of the Colonials among the different Cylon models. There are differences in loyalties even among instances of the models, hence one Sharon model killing another, or a whole swarm of others as we've seen in previous episodes. What does it mean, then, when we consider the implications of the "Cylon Plan"? Who is the author of the Plan? Apparently not every Cylon is "on board" with the Plan (Gallactica Sharon in particular).

jwegan
September 10th, 2005, 10:24 PM
Why was the final cut of the video produced as it was by the Cylon agent? Clearly it had the effect of boosting morale among the fleet even with the "warts and all" depiction of the military. Why does the Cylon Plan appear to encourage the many small victories by the Colonials at the considerable sacrifice of Cylon resources?

The footage seen by the Cylons appeared to be the "Final Cut" (i.e. with all the editing, music and voiceovers in place) as well as the raw footage that would have never been broadcast to the fleet, for security reasons (even though Adama left the choice to be a matter of conscience for the journalist). This implies that the "relays" provided by the doomed Raiders were not simple relays of the Colonial broadcasts, but covert transmissions from the Cylon Agent.


Remember Boomer didn't know she was a Cylon up until she shot Adama. She suspected she was, but she kept trying to deny it. Also in season 1 there were hints that Boomer would go off and do things without memory of doing them. For instance the episode with the sabatoge (the water tanks blow) she had C4 or something and didn't seem to remember getting it.

It is entirely possible that their cylon programming kicks in and make them do things, such as making the reporter transfer all the tape footage to the relay, and leave her no memory of doing it. That means the reporter would make the documentary just like a normal human reporter would and she was swayed by Adama and Roselin to make it a favorable one.

grover
September 10th, 2005, 10:40 PM
I thought about your hypothesis for a while, and you could very well be right.

But how would his inaction help Baltar achieve his goal of saving the child?

The way I see it, Baltar is a VP in title only. The past few episodes have shown how little authority he has. No one takes him seriously as a political figure and any credibility he had with the military as their top scientific mind went out the air lock when Boomer shot Adama. As things currently stands Baltar is in no position to protect Sharon's child.

Discovering the 8 remaining Cylons aboard the fleet would change that situation. I believe that it is in Baltar's best interests to root out the remaining Cylons, making him the "hero" who wiped out the last, hidden threat among the survivors. Basically Baltar needs a win and his Cylon detector is his best hole card.

Uber
September 10th, 2005, 11:04 PM
Please have the courtesy to use the tag (SPOILER in []) to hide spoilers. Edit the original post and I'll take back the RED.Well first of all you can't take back a red without causing a lot of trouble for the mods; and secondly, you don't have to spoiler tag SPOILERS for an episode in that episode's thread. You do have to spoiler tag things from future eps, but not items that are in the episode being discussed nor past eps. It's assumed that everything being discussed is an episode spoiler. Elsewhere, sure...spoiler tags are imperative...but not in the episode's thread.

I'm sure this will be exceedingly comforting to those you dinged for no good reason.

:rolleyes:

As for the episode itself, I loved it. I love Lucy Lawless and thought she did a stellar job. With her as one of the 12 models, I'm glad to say we'll see her in the future!

I thoroughly enjoyed this episode...it had heart and showed the humanity of those charged with defending the fleet against insurmountable odds.

And I really LOVE their use of the classic BSG theme song!

Great ep...can't wait for more.

:cool:

Carbito
September 10th, 2005, 11:22 PM
I just noticed something very interesting in this episode that leads me to believe that Dee is a Cylon. When Diana (the reporter) supposdly transmits the video to the Cylon Raiders she is busy in the CIC filming the situation, not in a position to transmit anything, however Dee is. Then notice at the end of that scene Diana goes up to Dee and at the end mutters "Thank you", who else could have been in a better position to transmit the video to the raiders except Dee. At first I assumed the "Thank you" was for saying something good for the camers but now I think there was much more behind it!

Aussie_86
September 11th, 2005, 01:28 AM
I've thought Dee has been a Cylon since the Miniseries...

now, there's some, vague evidence that she might be...

woohooooo!!!!!!!!!


The episode wasn't all that intense for me, it wasn't making me go 'oh, i wonder what'll happen next'... until the end.

The acting was good, and everything was good, just not intense


And it was good to see the human side of everyone.


Can't wait till next week.
Can someone answer a question for me (as i live in Aust and get my episodes by... other... means)... are there two eps of SG1, SGA, and BSG next week?

Thanks

Aussie

LoneStar1836
September 11th, 2005, 02:16 AM
I thought about your hypothesis for a while, and you could very well be right.

But how would his inaction help Baltar achieve his goal of saving the child?

The way I see it, Baltar is a VP in title only. The past few episodes have shown how little authority he has. No one takes him seriously as a political figure and any credibility he had with the military as their top scientific mind went out the air lock when Boomer shot Adama. As things currently stands Baltar is in no position to protect Sharon's child.

Discovering the 8 remaining Cylons aboard the fleet would change that situation. I believe that it is in Baltar's best interests to root out the remaining Cylons, making him the "hero" who wiped out the last, hidden threat among the survivors. Basically Baltar needs a win and his Cylon detector is his best hole card.
I’m guessing that was a reply to me.

Honestly I have no idea how Baltar could have any sway on making sure the baby remains unharmed other than him testing it and clearing it as totally human and then people accept his findings. *shrug*

Outing a Cylon could work to his advantage. But he could also just fake some test results and accuse a human of being a Cylon. He just came up with some BS in the mini to peg Doral as a Cylon. He didn’t really know for sure he was one, and he really didn’t care.

I disagree about his credibility as far as a scientist being in question. I think Roslin and Adama still trust him or at least they really haven’t hinted at a distrust in him yet. Tigh so far is the only one who seems to show open disdain and distrust of Baltar. Tigh was the only one who called him on the carpet about botching Boomer’s test. Course Baltar just explained it away as a kink that had been rectified in the final product. People seemed to accept the fact that he tested the Chief and cleared him.


Can someone answer a question for me (as i live in Aust and get my episodes by... other... means)... are there two eps of SG1, SGA, and BSG next week?Next Friday Sci-Fi will air 2 episodes of SG-1 leading into their midseason break and then an episode of BSG. There will be no SGA. Then the next Friday they air 2 episodes of SGA as well as BSG’s final episode before its midseason break. Then we don’t see any of them again until January. :(

Excali5033
September 11th, 2005, 03:14 AM
I just noticed something very interesting in this episode that leads me to believe that Dee is a Cylon. When Diana (the reporter) supposdly transmits the video to the Cylon Raiders she is busy in the CIC filming the situation, not in a position to transmit anything, however Dee is. Then notice at the end of that scene Diana goes up to Dee and at the end mutters "Thank you", who else could have been in a better position to transmit the video to the raiders except Dee. At first I assumed the "Thank you" was for saying something good for the camers but now I think there was much more behind it!

Nooooooo not Dee! Why is it always the cute ones?

Thermonuclearboy
September 11th, 2005, 07:27 AM
I find it interesting to note that the "sleeper" Cylons within the fleet all appear to be female - that is, acting like and even thinking they're human until "activated" - while the handful of male Cylons we've seen seem to be fully aware of their nature and actively causing trouble. The Cylons back on Caprica have a different function, of course, and so are fully aware of themselves.

As to the Cylons's ultimate plan for humanity, I think I've figured it out: they want the fleet to lead them to Earth. Earth is the last vestige of free humanity in the known universe. The Cylons want to first control humanity until they figure out the whole breeding tihng, then wipe them out. And they need to control all of us for that.

Cathara
September 11th, 2005, 09:53 AM
I really enjoyed this episode - the character development was enough to offset any feeling of "filler" for me.

I did question why someone like the reporter would be allowed onto Galactica without passing Baltar's Cylon Dectector Test. Another poster has suggested that Baltar is just passing everyone to save himself hassle.

That may be, but I think that seems kind of foolish of his character. He managed to skate by after passing Sharon. But if/when this reporter is revealed as a Cylon, it's going be harder to get by with a hastily cobbled together excuse.

I find it fascinating that the Sharon now on board Galactica has apparently successfully cut herself off from her other models/Cylong buddies. Makes the whole question of "free will" as it relates to artificial intelligence very, very intriguing.

I was also surprised at the reaction of Six in the theater. Her pleasure at how well the colonists are doing made me very uncomfortable. It almost seems like the "Farm" experiments may be the tip of the iceberg.

If they know where the fleet is, thus sending Cylon raiders to intercept communication of the video, then they are toying with the colonists. Perhaps they are putting them through their paces to see who is fastest, strongest, most resiliant so as to use them for the best breeding material??? Don't know really, just a thought.

The Cylons may really believe in Earth and want the colonists to lead them to it for reasons of their own. Who knows? That's whats so much fun about waiting for each new ep. :)

Liebestraume
September 11th, 2005, 10:13 AM
All this talk about CAG-booty leads me to speak up on behalf of the heterosexual males in the audience, and draw attention to Starbuck, those stomach muscles all taut and glistening with sweat, and ready to take you down and make you thank her afterwards...Sorry, Thermonuclearboy, buy you're absolutely right. How could we forget that? Kara looked absolutely fabulous. And this is coming from an heterosexual female. :D


liked the musical tribute to the original BSG theme from the original series. ... Where? Is it during the "editorial bit" towards the end of the documentary, where we saw a guy mopping the floor and then the pilots(?) marching pass him?


Number 6 in the audience seems delighted at the "resilience" of the Fleet. Why would this be her reaction? ...
...
Why was the final cut of the video produced as it was by the Cylon agent? Clearly it had the effect of boosting morale among the fleet even with the "warts and all" depiction of the military. ... On both counts, I'd chalk it up to the proverbial cat toying with the mouse. I could certainly see that in Six; whichever version it is, there always is that cruel sense of humor. With D'Anna, there is possibly the added bonus of maintaining cover and gaining trust. I am positive she didn't get on Galactica just to check on Sharon -- D'Anna did something to the ship. That "unlimited access" has its perks and cylons may want to keep them.

Uber
September 11th, 2005, 11:56 AM
After watching Final Cut and seeing the sixth model, I'm wondering something...but I don't have the miniseries on DVD (yet) and can't readily check this...

Who sent the message to Adama about how many human form cylon models there are?

The reason I'm asking is that...what if it was sent by a cylon to Adama (who may or may not himself be a cylon) to throw the survivors off? So that if they figure out all "12" and let their guard down...but what if there are really 15 or 20?

I'm a big fan of the series...but not quite an expert like I am with Stargate...so if someone who considers themself to be an expert could respond, that would be great.

Bl4de
September 11th, 2005, 11:58 AM
I really loved this episode, it was all that I expected it to be (though it would have been nice to see more characters interviewed such as Tigh's wife because we all know she's a cylon :P). A lot of shows have done this type of episode in the past, except usually not this well. It's a great premise, even if it's not something new, what they did with it was fresh and unique, they could have just had reporters bug Adama for awhile until he lets them on, but no Adama and Roslin had their entire plan picked out from the start and had everything controlled the way they wanted it.

Filler or not, this show is not about 24/7 people shooting other people, it's about humanity's struggle to accomplish a seemingly impossible task, that does not mean people always have to be dying or flying a viper. If you notice, they never once showed a viper in action except when Kat was docking (or trying to).

They wanted to pull the focus away from the action and focus on the people, the heart of the fleet, the people and their every day struggles. It fits well and was a reminder, because up to this point we haven't had many dramatic and tearful moments compared to the miniseries and first season. It was to me a reminder of what the show is really about, it's labeled sci-fi/drama in my books, not action, the original BSG REALLY lacked this aspect (they made up for it with a robotic dog and an annoying kid), and the new series is doing it right every step of the way.

I'm glad it wasn't as suspenseful, action packed, etc. nor was it a "filler", it had every intentions the other episodes had, it was a different aspect of looking at things and still provided the same deep meaningful impact that the other episodes usually deliver through action and tragedy. It was in all respects, to me, another near perfect episode of this near perfect season of a near perfect show.

Oh and fyi.. each episode usually has a different writer, I looked at the writer for this episode and it was different than the previous couple, so that's probably why we're seeing this type of episode and not the usual.

I don't think the person that sent Adama the message was lying.. there's no real reason to. The cylons have faceted themselves into the fleet so hard and they can manipulate so easily there's no reason for them to hide anything.

larocque6689
September 11th, 2005, 07:23 PM
Here's excerpts from the latest podcast.

--

This episode is the first of a few standalone episodes that we're doing here in season two. This is the first episode after "Home, Part 2", where we wrapped up many different plotlines. Instead of launching into a brand new giant arc of longterm storytelling, we decided to tell some standalone episodes, some things that weren't so buried in mythos and do a different flavor of episodes now that we are into this part of the season. By and large, this is exactly the kind of episode that new audience members should feel comfortable watching the show for the first time.

--

This is of course Lucy Lawless' first episode for us. Lucy was David Eick's idea. David had worked with Lucy on Xena: Warrior Princess, which of course is what she's most famously known for, back when he was working for Renaissance. We had talked about having her on the show before this [in the first season], and it didn't work out for whatever reason. As this role came up, David mentioned her for it, and it seemed like the right fit. And he checked with her and she was into it and decided to do it... The motto for this character was a Christina Amanpour type character. By that we meant, a very no nonsense going after the story type of reporter, not a muckraker, not a tabloid reporter, not somebody out for their own glory, but somebody who has a story and is going to bite into it, is going to keep it going no matter what.


--

The genesis of this story began when we were talking in the first couple of episodes... Someone developed this story about doing an episode where we would cut down into that room where all the press was gathered and trapped [after "Resistance"] and follow one reporter as he or she figured out how to get a story, and tell the whole episode from that point of view. The reason we opted not to do that, was that we needed those early episodes to tell a great deal of other stories. We had the story of Kobol, we had the story of Caprica, we had important story to deal with Laura etc. on Galactica, and it just became to cumbersome to try to use that device and make it work. But, in any case, the idea of a reporter being on the ship, or doing an episode from the reporter's point of view was something that we never let go of. Eventually we decided, "Let's do the documentary episode, where we really shoot a documentary on the ship." Actually, for this episode, Robert Young, who directed this episode and also directed last year's episode, "Six Degrees of Separation" is a noted documentarian. He has done many feature films and made acutal documentaries in his day. It felt like a natural fit to have Robert do this. I felt that it was important to give the director, writer and actors as much space to improvise, and to really embroider on the characters and on the life on Galactica.

--

It's worth mentioning this little device we're using. Every time we go to the documentary camera, you'll note that we clip the corners off, which is a nod towards the aesthetic that we've established in this world, that they tend to clip corners off things. That happens to be an aesthetic style that they like in this universe. They like books with the corners cut off, they like picture frames with the corners cut off. The idea of clipping the corners on the documentary is actually one of the very last things that we did. I kept struggling to try and make the documentary footage stand out and feel different from the objective camera... the challenge was how to distinguish the look between the two. I was looking at it in the editing bay and it occurred to me. I said to the editor, "What if we clip the corners off the documentary footage." It was such a very small tweak but it really works, it really sets those images apart instantly and visually.

--

[The cameraman] is a real cameraman... It was much, much better to have an actual cameraman working the camera within the scene than relying on an actor who is essentially trying to act like a camerman, if you had any hope of using the footage... [However] we were constantly having to juggle this documentary footage in such a way that we weren't picking up members of the actual film crew which were filming the scene.

--

In a couple of drafts, Tigh and Ellen were both going [to Cloud Nine], and at some point we decided to keep Ellen aboard Galactica.


--

There were episodes last season where we had strike teams in the Raptors, and we had ground crew in the Raptors, and we simply didn't have the money to outfit all of them in a flight suit. Plus, they all look kind of goofy when you put that many flight suits together in a cockpit. We kind of limit the flight suits to the necessary personnel, the pilot and the ECO. And that allowed us to make this leap, that Tigh would not be wearing a flight suit.

--

You might have noticed this is the first time that Gaeta got a first name. His first name is now Felix. I don't know why that makes me laugh, but it did. I was looking up ancient names on the Internet when it came time to do this episode, because I never named Gaeta or Dualla, even in the show bible. And there it was, Felix. That's him, it's Felix Gaeta... Also, Dualla's first name is Anastasia, which I thought was quite lovely. Kandyse is a quite lovely lady who deserved a pretty first name.

--

A lot of the dialogue here between the LSO and the pilot was contributed I believe by David [Weddle] and Bradley [Thompson], who specialize in that verisimilitude in our military jargon, in planning with some consultation with our military consultant.

--

You might have noticed that several of the little subtitles that show people's names and ranks and what have you in the show have a couple of acronyms after them. For those of you who obsess upon these sorts of things, and you know who you are: CF is Colonial Fleet, CFR is Colonial Fleet Reserve, CMC is Colonial Marine Corps, and then CMCR is Colonial Marine Corps Reserve. So you can write that down and add that to your book of tricks.

--

This whole last bit of narration was something that I wrote in post as we were going through the footage. I just wanted to give the thesis of the show. These are deeply flawed people and they're human. And maybe that's saying the same thing. There's a nobility to these people, there's a heroism to these people who are flawed and screwed up and dysfunctional and deeply human. And they get up every day and they go out and they do their jobs and they hold off the Cylons, and they protect the fleet. And they keep doing it and they don't quit. Despite everything that you've seen in the series and despite all their flaws, and all their infighting and all their deeply human, sometimes deeply bad choices in their lives, that they are the protectors. They are the guardians of the fleet. They take that job very seriously and they do it every day. And they never try to shirk it. That is ultimately the thing that sets them apart, it makes them special.

--

Oh, this is great, the use of the original Battlestar Galactica theme. He starts whistling it, the music comes in, and the crowd goes wild. And some will curse us for using it, "How sacreligious!" But I kind of like it. Something very sweet about it.

--

I think this is my favorite ending so far. This is such a great reveal. When I'm watching the show, and I'm sitting and watching it for the umpteenth time, I forget about the end. I forget that she's a Cylon. It's so great. It's like you really are sucked into the show, you're really sucked into the story, and watching the images. And no matter how many times I've seen the show, I always get up this moment and forget that D'anna is a Cylon. It's such a great, unexpected twist. it just lays in there so nicely and so well. It's like you're watching this great, uplifting, and then there's one surprise coming... There's something great about not even suggesting to the audience that there's going to be a surprise. That you've seen the show and you feel very safe and comfortable with everything you've just watched, and then the zinger in the last minute.

RobertC
September 11th, 2005, 11:33 PM
I just noticed something very interesting in this episode that leads me to believe that Dee is a Cylon. When Diana (the reporter) supposdly transmits the video to the Cylon Raiders she is busy in the CIC filming the situation, not in a position to transmit anything, however Dee is. Then notice at the end of that scene Diana goes up to Dee and at the end mutters "Thank you", who else could have been in a better position to transmit the video to the raiders except Dee. At first I assumed the "Thank you" was for saying something good for the camers but now I think there was much more behind it!

I just watched the episode. There is also an earlier scene with Baltar in foreground which Dee and the reporter are talking in very familiar terms, like they have known each other for awhile.

After seemingly taking no active part in the operation, Dee looking stressed said "No maam, it just gets harder" after which the reporter said "thank-you" they flashed to Dee's face which looked guilty/torn up inside. Not the normal reaction you would expect in the situation say either relief at the raiders been destroyed or annoyance at having to answer the reporters question. Definitely like she had just done something bad.

- Robert

delenntoo
September 12th, 2005, 05:29 AM
I just watched the episode. There is also an earlier scene with Baltar in foreground which Dee and the reporter are talking in very familiar terms, like they have known each other for awhile.

After seemingly taking no active part in the operation, Dee looking stressed said "No maam, it just gets harder" after which the reporter said "thank-you" they flashed to Dee's face which looked guilty/torn up inside. Not the normal reaction you would expect in the situation say either relief at the raiders been destroyed or annoyance at having to answer the reporters question. Definitely like she had just done something bad.

- Robert

Yup, I noticed that too - I looked at the transcript on the Galactica Station website to see if I was remembering correctly about that earlier scene ... here is what it says:

On Galactica in a hallway

(Dualla is modifying some kind of device for Biers. Looks like a tape or memory card)

Biers: Think it'll give it more memory?

Dualla: Yeah, it seems pretty simple. Maybe just a basic adjustment. It's a pretty good piece.

Biers: Yeah, it's kind of old...

Then the scene in CIC near the end kinda takes on a new meaning, especially if Dee *is* a cylon:

Biers: Does this ever get any easier?

Dualla: No, Ma'am. It gets harder.

Biers: Thank you.

I think that being a cylon in the CIC and watching your own ships get destroyed would get harder every time, don't you? I also think that she was using that device from the earlier scene to transmit the footage Biers shot to the cylons in the last scene.

Astaire310
September 12th, 2005, 08:36 AM
New Here. Thanks to you all for your insightful posts. I enjoy the show even more because of them.

Having read all the comments about Dualla possibly being a Cylon in this thread, I was wondering what you were all thinking about Baltar. He is looking just as guilty as Dualla to me. Here is why...

If you remember back to the scene (I am sorry I don't know episode names yet) in which Baltar is in the prison cell with GBoomer and Chief, Baltar believes that if he can panic GBoomer enough, she will be able to access her Cylon chip and reveal secret Cylon information to him. Why does he think that? Perhaps he knows (sub)consciously this will work because...he is a Cylon.

Baltar has shown in previous episodes that under extreme stress, he has knowledge of things he should not know (ie He knows things that a Cylon would know but not a human.) The writing in the show is too good for these to be coincidences, I think they are hints. Here are two examples: 1) Under pressure he correctly identified Doral as a Cylon in the mini-series. 2) In the Episode in which Galactica had to attack the Cylon refinery, Baltar managed to guess the exact piece of equipment that Apollo needed to blow up just as he began to panic.

Baltar also has the overactive sex drive and higher than expected intelligence of a Cylon.

He has an intricate relationship with Number Six, but there is no detectable chip in his head. Could Invisible Six be part of his Cylon programming which would not be detectable in a brain scan? She has given him specific information about people/things/events in several episodes. Information that does not seem like it could come purely from a psychotic human mind.

Baltar is so special to the Cylons that they go out of their way again and again to save him. First, Number Six sacrifices herself when Caprica explodes, second they capture and eliminate the Olympic Carrier to save his reputation, third, they set him up for accusation so that he can be publicly cleared and forever be above reproach. Why would they do that to an ordinary human? Why not just let him die on Caprica? How did they identify him as special?
Starbuck is special to the Cylons because she plays the role of the Interrogator/Victim in the Book of Pythia. If Baltar was also special because of a repeated historical/religious role. Wouldn't the President or Elosha have identified him by now and locked him up? Hmm...I would love to see a copy of the Book of Pythia...Even better, I would love to see Baltar test himself in his Cylon Detector and see the look on his face with the results. I don't think that he is aware that he is a Cylon, but perhaps that awareness is growing.

I was wondering if anyone suspected Baltar of being a special Cylon, not one of the twelve models, but perhaps a single copy of the human scientist who created the Cylons. It would explain why his physical body is more valuable than those of the other Cylons and why he would be the one chosen to guard the children of the Cylons. He would be continuing the role of the original Cylon father.

Probably really off-base, but curious as to what you all think. Thanks! :)

coolove
September 12th, 2005, 10:34 AM
Great episode. Gaeta lets it all hang out? That was bizarre.


Didn't you know... he's a cyclon. LOL.

Kazper
September 12th, 2005, 10:40 AM
Cylons "tracking at a distance" does not mean they have the ability to transmit large volumes of data from a distance. Hence the need for the relays from the Raiders.


Not proved. As I understood it the raiders was merely a distraction to allow the transmission of the data to go unnoticed by the fleet. They were not relays in the sense of the word you think of - but they allowed the relaying of the data to the other cylons through distraction.

Bl4de
September 12th, 2005, 10:45 AM
I don't really think she's a cylon, I mean the scene where she's helping D'anna with the memory thing she's just trying to be friendly since she was one of the first people she met aboard the galactica, not only that but Dee has always been helpful to new people aboard the ship (Billy?), she was probably just trying to help her fit more onto 1 tape. And in CIC she said "thank you" for doing the report, since she realizes after all the action how hard it is on everyone there who has to deal with those things daily. It gets harder to do it because it simply does... I mean think about Gaeta's job he has to deal with so much, the more and more you do it the harder it gets, there doesn't have to be a second meaning behind it. Dee looked troubled because those raiders could have killed someone or a lot of people, it wears down on them having to fight so much.

It wouldn't have had the same impact if Dee had given a lighthearted response when asked if it gets easier, "it gets harder" seems like an emotional fit to a troublesome time.

ForCryinOutLoud
September 12th, 2005, 01:44 PM
I was wondering if anyone suspected Baltar of being a special Cylon, not one of the twelve models, but perhaps a single copy of the human scientist who created the Cylons. It would explain why his physical body is more valuable than those of the other Cylons and why he would be the one chosen to guard the children of the Cylons. He would be continuing the role of the original Cylon father.

Probably really off-base, but curious as to what you all think. Thanks! :)

that's exactly what my husband and I think. I also think that "the one true God" is actually the human Baltar, and this Baltar is a copy interacting with the humans. I don't think he knows it, but there have been many things that point to his being a Cylon - like Six, who could be his Cylon programming speaking to him, like the fact that he didn't die on Caprica in a nuclear explosion, like Six telling him things he should otherwise not know even though she doesn't exist as a chip...he's so a Cylon.

SGalisa
September 12th, 2005, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by ForCryinOutLoud:
I also think that "the one true God" is actually the human Baltar...hmmm, *interesting* theory or concept. :)



Originally posted by SGalisa, see post #36:
liked the musical tribute to the original BSG theme from the original series. ...
Originally posted by Liebestraume:
Where? Is it during the "editorial bit" towards the end of the documentary, where we saw a guy mopping the floor and then the pilots(?) marching pass him?I'm sorry, I thought that was obvious - especially since it was mentioned before me in this topic...

Originally posted by Vyse:
Glad to finally hear the original Galactica theme music again!and noted here-

Originally posted by chyron, see post #26:
I wasn't too hip on the episode until the introduction of the original BSG theme at the end right before the FINAL scene.and again, my own reinforcement of both previous comments-

Originally posted by SGalisa, see post #36:
...If nothing else - that musical theme was the hallmark stamp of the entire BSG series. And the way it got included at the end, was very nice to hear against the visual montage of how resilient and steadfast the few who are left, are making it thru their difficult life, moment by moment.Wherever it started in the news montage -with the guy on mop duty or a few frames before, I heard the original music along with the guy whistling to it. The news editorial piecing the montage of various events together made a nice effect and was nicely written. :)

I am a bit surprised tho, that it would be coming from a cylon... Why are the cylons letting some humans live, and yet go on a killing spree against them at other times? Are they just toying with the humans, like they are a giant lab experiment? If yes, then for *what* reason...?


Originally posted by Liebestraume:
I like what BSG is doing for their secondary characters...I too, have enjoyed the 2ndary characters more than the primary ones. Maybe it's just a refocusing adjustment to viewing something different and new, rather than go into comparison studies of the original primary characters in contrast to the revamped ones. ;)

Liebestraume
September 12th, 2005, 08:56 PM
... Maybe it's just a refocusing adjustment to viewing something different and new, rather than go into comparison studies of the original primary characters in contrast to the revamped ones. ;) Sounds like you are a fan of both series. Such rich textures for you to draw the comparison from. I, on the other hand, am among those who had never seen BSG till the "re-imagined" version became a series on SciFi :o. Thanks for the detailed explanation of the music! I think I'll go back to watch that part again. :)

Bl4de
September 12th, 2005, 08:59 PM
I just rewatched Final Cut and I really don't think the raiders had anything to do with the transmission of final film.

For the simple fact that, the cylons on Caprica were watching the entire film that was edited with footage from after the cylon attack. They were watching the completed product. How is it possible that they're watching the full thing when the raiders attacked way before? They must have transmitted something else. She only mentioned it after #6 asked if the baby was ok.

For the record the music at the end of the show nearly brought tears to my eyes lol. I love the original theme song, just wish I knew what orchestra redid it for the new series. I thought it was a perfect touch to the end of the episode and completed the dramatic effect they were going for. A+ work on this episode!

Sauce
September 12th, 2005, 09:47 PM
Not one of my favorite eps, but still enjoyable. The most interesting part was mentioned previously. The "Six" on Caprica has no knowledge of what Baltar's "Six" knows. If she did she would have known that "Sharon" and her baby were still alive. I find this confusing based on previous events ei: No chip in his head (maybe a biological device disguised as human tissue?), Six on Galactica, the outing of Doral, the recycling facility, the cylon detector etc. His Six even said that Lawless would be a big help to them. Did she know Lawless was a Cylon? If she did how? Wouldn't Lawless have also known that Baltar had a "Six" copy inside?

Random thought, anybody think that based on the religious undertones of the show Baltar might be the Son of God? The Cylons do believe in a monotheistic God unlike the Colonials. Although I think maybe he fits the Joseph role a bit better.

grover
September 13th, 2005, 01:40 AM
Lotsa interesting theories floating around.

I've pondered the Baltar as God theory myself, but I'd like a little more foundation laid before Moore springs that one on us.

As for Dee, I think people are reading WAY too much into her exchanges with D'Anna. Why would a Cylon Dee know how to modify a disk while Clyon D'Anna wouldn't? Makes no sense. Although I have a hunch that those exposed oxygen scrubbers are going to suffer a malfunction soon...

I didn't see anything suspicious about the final Dee/D'Anna scene in the CIC after the raid. The fact that Dee wasn't instantly relieved/elated doesn't make her a Cylon. In fact, I think it makes her more human. It can get harder to decompress and feel relief the more someone is exposed to a high stress situation. Her reaction post-contact could just mean she's more likely to follow a Kat-like path to medicinal relief.

And D'Anna's "Thank You" was more likely in response to Dee sharing this frightening moment with her rather than thanking her for sending off an illict message.

Besides, I still think Billy is the Cylon and he's using Dee. :D

entil2001
September 13th, 2005, 05:32 AM
Using the perspective of a civilian reporter as a gimmick for storytelling has been a tradition for genre series for quite some time. The modern use of the gimmick actually goes back to “MASH”, which had a much-acclaimed episode devoted to a film crew visiting the 4077. (Yes, there are older examples, but that’s the one everyone seems to mention these days.) Series like “Babylon 5” used the gimmick to explore subtle aspects of political and social issues within the series’ mythos, while other shows like “Stargate SG-1” used it less effectively.

Ron Moore (in a remarkably dirty and possibly drunken podcast for this episode) mentions a number of reservations about the episode, and I agree with most of them. I suppose what disappointed me in the end was the abrupt lack of serialization. Yes, I knew it was coming, but that didn’t really prepare me for such a stand-alone episode.

I really couldn’t get into the whole “Tigh in jeopardy” plot element, because I don’t find his character to be sympathetic. And D’anna didn’t seem to have much of a hidden agenda, at least in terms of what she put on film and how she cut it. Until the very end of the episode, there was really no reason to question her motivations. It was good to get some fresh perspective on minor characters, and Moore got the opportunity to present “new viewers” with the mission statement of the series.

Two things, however, factored against my enjoyment of the episode. First, that final moment was spoiled by some jerk on a Live Journal community, so I spent a lot of time during the episode trying to find clues that Moore mentioned were intentionally not there. So I was a little disappointed that it was, in fact, inserted out of left field. And then there’s the fact that episodes designed as “jumping on points” typically bug me.

Here’s what I don’t get…it’s eight episodes into the season, and the series will be off until January in two weeks. Who really expects a “new viewer” to be tuning in now? It’s like promoting issue #589 of a comic book as a “jumping on point”. The only people likely to discover this are the established fans, who are not looking for the writers to dump something like that into the monthly schedule.

That’s not to say that I didn’t like aspects of the episode. There have been moments, since the series began, where I wondered if this would have been better as an HBO series. This series likes to take things right to the limit, and there are some moments in this episode where I got a glimpse of what it could be without restraints. A lot of those moments were in the documentary footage, so in that respect, the gimmick worked.

I also really liked Lucy Lawless in this role. I always thought she looked better as a blonde, and this episode confirms my opinion. I also have a thing for that accent, which doesn’t hurt. I rarely saw her as anyone other than D’anna, which I think speaks volumes of her ability. Hopefully, she’ll show up again, because that twist at the end needs to be explored.

Speaking of the twist…I’m still trying to figure it out. So what was the point of it all? One would assume that it was all about the spying, and getting past barriers that would normally be impenetrable. The Cylons wanted to confirm that Boomer and the baby were alive, but they also seemed fascinated by the humans and their ability to transcend their flaws. I suspect that this will become an important clue in the future. Perhaps then I will be less annoying by this episode’s stand-alone qualities.

Bl4de
September 13th, 2005, 08:50 AM
I don't really see what aspects of the episode made it annoying for you, the first one was your accidental reading of a spoiler, absolutely nothing wrong with the episode there. The second really was a producer's comment about the show, which again has nothing to do with the episode. "Jumping point" or not, shouldn't affect how people view it. I certainly never thought that about the episode.. though I can see that if someone were to plop on Sci-Fi at 10 pm they'd see an intriguing show with interesting characters. So I don't see why you're annoyed with the episode. Season 1 had plenty of stand alone episodes, infact season 1 was MOSTLY stand alone. The tylium raid, Starbuck being stranded (well I guess the raider was important later but it didn't technically lead into a story arc), Bastille Day (prisoner episode), Act of Contrition (Kara confronts Zak's death), etc. all of them were just like this episode (infact less of story arcs considering the twist at the end of Final Cut).

It's to me, what made the show so over the top and put it beyond the rest, they could produce standalone episodes mixed in with long winded keep-you-guessing episodes about a cingular or multiple storylines. They did it perfectly as well. Season 2 has not had much of this because it had to 1) resolve the fleet division issue and 2) deal with getting to Earth. So now that that's out of the way they can get back to doing what season 1 did so well. Because I really think the show wouldn't be as good if it was just 1 long continuous storyline with no breath of fresh air into side characters, side plots, humorous and tragic moments, etc.

I think Baltar has something big planned.. in the original series he was an evil traitor that did nothing for the humans but try to kill them and the cylons gave him his own base star to do just that. 6 has said numerous times god has bigger plans for Baltar, he's clearly going to be coaxed into a position of leadership among the cylons. She said he would survive after humanity is wiped out, that was her job, to keep him alive.

starbucker1
September 13th, 2005, 02:52 PM
Now Playing magazine reviews this (and every) Galactica episode here:

http://www.nowplayingmag.com/content/category/7/99/47/

Cool.

RobertC
September 13th, 2005, 06:13 PM
I don't really think she's a cylon, I mean the scene where she's helping D'anna with the memory thing she's just trying to be friendly since she was one of the first people she met aboard the galactica, not only that but Dee has always been helpful to new people aboard the ship (Billy?), she was probably just trying to help her fit more onto 1 tape.
It was the tone of the way she said it like they were friends, not formal or official in any form. Also she was talking directly to the reporter ignoring the cameraman who had the camera most of the time.


And in CIC she said "thank you" for doing the report, since she realizes after all the action how hard it is on everyone there who has to deal with those things daily. It gets harder to do it because it simply does...
Then why did she say thank you to Dee alone and not the whole bridge? Pretty much everyone had helped with the report.


I mean think about Gaeta's job he has to deal with so much, the more and more you do it the harder it gets, there doesn't have to be a second meaning behind it. Dee looked troubled because those raiders could have killed someone or a lot of people, it wears down on them having to fight so much.
Gaeta showed his "humaness" with the tattoo and smoking. Dee appears to have no character flaws consistent with the other cylons.


It wouldn't have had the same impact if Dee had given a lighthearted response when asked if it gets easier, "it gets harder" seems like an emotional fit to a troublesome time.
A tired response would have been more appropriate, she appeared quite stressed even though there was no immediate danger and she appeared to have done nothing during the attack. ie Gaeta answered the phone and talked to the viper pilots, what was Dee the communications officer doing?

- Robert

RobertC
September 13th, 2005, 06:34 PM
As for Dee, I think people are reading WAY too much into her exchanges with D'Anna. Why would a Cylon Dee know how to modify a disk while Clyon D'Anna wouldn't? Makes no sense.

Why did Number 6 seduce Baltar and not the Leoban model?

Hmmmm maybe cylons have specialisation ;-)


I didn't see anything suspicious about the final Dee/D'Anna scene in the CIC after the raid. The fact that Dee wasn't instantly relieved/elated doesn't make her a Cylon. In fact, I think it makes her more human. It can get harder to decompress and feel relief the more someone is exposed to a high stress situation. Her reaction post-contact could just mean she's more likely to follow a Kat-like path to medicinal relief.
1)She hadnt exhibited any over-stressed symptoms elsewhere. Either they just started for her or something else abnormal was going on
2)Her eyes followed the reporter as she left, like she had got some bad news, not back to the console or the now celebrating other members of the CIC which she seemd to momentarily forget about.

And D'Anna's "Thank You" was more likely in response to Dee sharing this frightening moment with her rather than thanking her for sending off an illict message.
The reporter had a frightening moment with everybody on the bridge. Only Dee got the thank-you.


Besides, I still think Billy is the Cylon and he's using Dee. :D
He's the right age as is Dee compared to the other models. Sorry cant think of anything else to support that though. Except perhaps when he split from Roslyn when she escaped....he gave as reason not wanting to divide the fleet which was a bit weird as he helped her escape.

- Robert

generalgater
September 14th, 2005, 12:06 PM
Glad to finally hear the original Galactica theme music again!

I agree with u on that!

stargate_addict
September 14th, 2005, 02:53 PM
Good episode. It was just like SG-1's Heroes (both parts), but with a better ending.

I thought the same thing, they sorta ripped it from sg-1, and i liked hereos better.

FeloniousMonk
September 14th, 2005, 04:40 PM
I thought the same thing, they sorta ripped it from sg-1, and i liked hereos better.
ripped it from sg1? I don't think so :p this concept has been a part of tv shows for decades

mikeforrest2003
September 14th, 2005, 07:47 PM
Is it my imagination or did it appear that she is the Cylon Fleet Commander or perhaps even the "Imperious Leader"?

Otherwise how do you explain her comment that "I lost 2 Raiders getting this back to the Fleet!"

The others also seemed to treat her with some deference such as that she occuppied the front row of the theater.

Cikak
September 14th, 2005, 08:01 PM
To me this is the worst episode to date, which is not that bad considering how good most of the other episodes are. The thing that really ruined this episode for me was there was no suspension of disbelief. The plot seems very contrived to me, they just let a reporter roam around on Galactica? I agree with the Now Playing reivew, the characters seem incredibly out of character in their openness about how they feel in front of a camera. The only parts I really liked were the Tigh subplot and the final reveal. The episode is way too sappy to me for a BSG episode, especially the montage at the end of the documentary, I actually couldn't watch it I fast forwarded through it. The message is basicly "Yeah it sucks out here but were tough as hell and were never going to be beated" and that to me doesn't really fit. I also didn't like how the thing with Sharon's baby was probably a total of 30 seconds. Thats a pretty important development maybe you want to spend a little bit more time on that.

This episode felt like to me an excuse to give Lucy Lawless a role, and it really has no focus at all, other than to give minor characters more exposition.

spg_1983
September 14th, 2005, 08:12 PM
Is it my imagination or did it appear that she is the Cylon Fleet Commander or perhaps even the "Imperious Leader"?

Otherwise how do you explain her comment that "I lost 2 Raiders getting this back to the Fleet!"

The others also seemed to treat her with some deference such as that she occuppied the front row of the theater.she said "We lost two raiders getting this back to the fleet" and im pretty sure the having her sit in the front row alone was just a dramatic cinematic shot so we saw her last

Bl4de
September 14th, 2005, 08:45 PM
It was the tone of the way she said it like they were friends, not formal or official in any form. Also she was talking directly to the reporter ignoring the cameraman who had the camera most of the time.

It was the atmosphere of the episode at that paticular moment, people can't be chatting dark and forebodingly (is that a word?) if Kara is dancing around naked in the background. It was an open moment with a "strange little man" wandering about about to get into a humorous situation. I didn't really pick out that they sounded like friends, it sounded a bit different because it gradually faded out right as D'anna said "it's a bit old..." probably a reference to the entire Battlestar which is ancient (corded phones).



Then why did she say thank you to Dee alone and not the whole bridge? Pretty much everyone had helped with the report.

She only talked to Dee. She kept asking her questions over and over, like "should I be scared right now?". Everyone else was busy.



Gaeta showed his "humaness" with the tattoo and smoking. Dee appears to have no character flaws consistent with the other cylons.

Under too much stress she blanks out. In the episode where cylons board the Galactica she watched other people being murdered and she was frozen stiff, she couldn't move until Billy addressed her by rank which snapped her out of it. Military is all she knew, all she believed in as she stated in her interview (which I think revealed many flaws).



A tired response would have been more appropriate, she appeared quite stressed even though there was no immediate danger and she appeared to have done nothing during the attack. ie Gaeta answered the phone and talked to the viper pilots, what was Dee the communications officer doing?

She seemed tired to me, "no ma'am, it gets harder *sigh*". After D'anna left she looked like she was about to collapse. And I don't know her specific duty... but I do know she was required to contact the fleet, talk to the fleet, deal with sensors around the fleet etc. I could go look up what she does exactly but she had to worry about as much as everyone else. What do those 2 guys at the entrance to CIC do (when they looked at the camera as D'anna entered which was one of the funnier parts of the episode) lol. I'm sure they were still just as stressed and worried that the human race was about to be blinked out with a bunch of nukes.

I think they'd give more plot into the next human cylon. D'anna was in the episode from the beginning, it was her episode so to speak, her personality swayed and opinions as well. It was all her. Just like in The Farm when we met the Doctor, it was mostly him and Kara and we learned he was a cylon. Just like Sharon, Leoban, Aaron (he had a lot of air time in the mini series), 6, etc. Seems like if we meet a new cylon we're going to be seeing a lot of them as the central part of the episode's story.

Just something to ponder about on our guesses to the next cylon. *COUGH I think it's Ellen COUGH*

Bl4de
September 14th, 2005, 08:48 PM
I don't think a high caliber actress like her will be staying long enough to be the imperious leader. It's like all celebrity cameos on tv, they stay for a few episodes for money then leave. Though I still don't know how raiders transmitted the full edited film when she was still shooting the film and it wasn't edited yet.

Blue Banrigh
September 15th, 2005, 08:44 AM
I agree with the Now Playing reivew, the characters seem incredibly out of character in their openness about how they feel in front of a camera.
I just assumed they took this opportunity to vent, kinda like a weird therapy session.

mikeforrest2003
September 15th, 2005, 08:56 AM
I hadn't caught that continuity problem.

But I am pretty sure she said "I lost two Raiders".

I guess I'll have to wait for the rerun.

spg_1983
September 15th, 2005, 09:16 AM
I don't think a high caliber actress like her will be staying long enough to be the imperious leader. It's like all celebrity cameos on tv, they stay for a few episodes for money then leave. Though I still don't know how raiders transmitted the full edited film when she was still shooting the film and it wasn't edited yet.i think she was just talking about the cut footage, of sharon in the infirmary, because that was the really important part to the cylons. after she finished her story she could have slipped away from the fleet and brought the final version to the rest of the cylons, but the footage of sharon was critical so they sent the raiders. it actually brings up an interesting point. abviously biers has some way to signal the rest of the cylons and let them know where the fleet is so they could send those two raiders, there are 7 other cylons hidden in the fleet. so if they all have that capability, or even if its only biers model, the cylons could wipe out the fleet at any point the wish. they just gather their forces for one strike, and jump in and overwhelm them. it definately lends creedence to the theory that the cylons have plans for the fleet, plus make the fleets position that much more tenuous and they dont even know it.

spg_1983
September 15th, 2005, 09:16 AM
I hadn't caught that continuity problem.

But I am pretty sure she said "I lost two Raiders".

I guess I'll have to wait for the rerun.i rewatched the scene when you posted and she definately said "we"

Bl4de
September 15th, 2005, 09:24 AM
They were supposed to be out of character, not all of them were.. Lee wasn't, he delivered a nice impactful speech. Gaeta was, because it was humorous and quirky. He's usually all business with little subtle hints at him really being a good guy such as the coverup for the president escaping. Now we see him smoking even though he hates it. Just gives you insight into their off duty personality which we can't see.. because there's hardly any off duty for him.

mikeforrest2003
September 15th, 2005, 07:22 PM
I stand corrected!

colonialbob
September 16th, 2005, 06:54 AM
I thought about that whole Cylon Detect the reporter angle... and yer right. I LOVE BSG but since everyone in the fleet knows that there are Cylons about, keeping the Cylon testing quiet serves no purpose any longer, so Baltar's gig should kinda be up...... BTW you are SUPPOSED to hate the XO. Besides, Tigh's the only one who really expresses and really good venom for the good doctor....

FeloniousMonk
September 16th, 2005, 08:39 AM
I don't think a high caliber actress like her will be staying long enough to be the imperious leader. It's like all celebrity cameos on tv, they stay for a few episodes for money then leave. Though I still don't know how raiders transmitted the full edited film when she was still shooting the film and it wasn't edited yet.
she's not Dame Judi Dench :p lucy lawless may be a good actress but I don't know where you're getting high caliber, especially when compared to Olmos and even McDonnell

stlouiemoe
September 16th, 2005, 10:09 PM
Not saying that Lucy isnt a great actress or that she has "made it" in the sense that she is a midrange at best B level star right now, but she has not had any of the accolades of McDonnell/Roslyn or Olmos/Adama, both of whom have been nominated for several acting awards over their carrers and won. McDonnell has actually been nominated twice for academy awards - one for supporting actress for Dances w/Wolves (she played Costner's eventual wife, the girl "kidnapped" by the sioux) and best actress nom for PassionFish in 1992, his was a best actor nom in Stand and Deliver (1987) to go w/ a Tony award. Lucy hasn't had any noms, and really has only one signature role and Lucy's comfortable, shes working in the same environment with people she's familiar with (remember David Eick was a writer/producer on XENA w/her husband (Rob Tapert) and Sam Raimi at Renissance!), and she's actually already signed for at least 5 appearances if I remember correctly! So, we will definitely see her again...

keshou
September 19th, 2005, 08:17 PM
Only caught the last half of this episode "live", but finally got around to watching my tape of the whole thing.

Jeez, why didn't anyone tell me about the towel scene! I would have popped that tape in a LOT sooner. ;) :D

And that was a VERY small towel - with a lot of slippage going on. Starting to feel like a real letch. :p

Enjoyed the episode - different way to examine all the characters and I thought it was a nice change of pace.

I was (unfortunately) spoiled about the ending but it was pretty effective even though I knew what was coming.

Hope we get to see Lucy Lawless again - good role for her.

Bl4de
September 19th, 2005, 09:48 PM
I was simply saying she probably would probably just stay a cameo as other well known actors/actresses have done in series before. I didn't mean she was as famous as Olmos but, she's probably a temp as she's not been hinted as a recurring character. Probably like the doctor.. we saw him 1 time and he's never with the cylons in their meetings, or anywhere. It proves they can add cylons that aren't needed in every episode with human cylons.

LoneStar1836
September 19th, 2005, 10:27 PM
Only caught the last half of this episode "live", but finally got around to watching my tape of the whole thing.

Jeez, why didn't anyone tell me about the towel scene! I would have popped that tape in a LOT sooner. ;) :D

And that was a VERY small towel - with a lot of slippage going on. Starting to feel like a real letch. :p Well if I had know that was your holdup, I’d have said something. :D:P

Nice to see you back. ;)

Quinn Mallory
September 19th, 2005, 10:58 PM
Now we see another Cylon form, there are only 6 more human forms of Cylon that we haven't seen yet (and one of them will probably be someone we already know...just a speculation by me).

keshou
September 20th, 2005, 08:28 PM
Well if I had know that was your holdup, I’d have said something. :D:P Nice to see you back. ;)
Ah yes, nothing like an attractive, mostly nekkid man to inspire me. ;) :D

madk99
September 20th, 2005, 11:40 PM
It took several days for it to click but something just occured to me. We can't confuse the Six in Baltar's head with the one on Caprica. They are at distance enough to need raiders to relay the information back home (to "Cylonia - the planet of private screening rooms"). The Six that Baltar sees is obviously based elsewhere. Maybe in his head - Cylons are competent manipulators of biology so maybe the "chip" is just a gray matter cold-cut. This would certainly not show up on a head C.T. Maybe the Baltar Six is based in Shelley - who is in hiding in the fleet.

djmc26
September 21st, 2005, 02:51 AM
i have a doubt that rise in my mind guys, looking at this episode's end:

- Cylons are not all linked together somehow???
I mean, they appear to know things happened to others (see in the scene where new Boomer knows feelings of dead boomer , and feels them too somehow...and vice-versa i think)
-They have spies, moreover, in the last scene with "Xena" they are watching the tape cylon lucy made on the fleet itself (its evident somehow someone gave it to them, no?)

Said so....
why just when they watch the tape made by reporter Lucy, they are astonished and surprised to see the pregnant boomer alive....

It seems contradictions, HOW THEY DIDNT KNOW IT ?!?!?
In particular, Pregnant boomer is in the BRIG, guarded , many people know of her existence, WE MUST ASSUME that anyone know of her existence (see all pilots and officers, also the infamous Gaeta (i say infamous because many believes he is Cylon) and all the command deck guys) , are NOT CYLON, because in that way , according to logic, the others should had already known of pregnant boomer survive....

I know, maybe iexplained myself bad, but...you got the point??
thanks

Bl4de
September 22nd, 2005, 06:44 PM
Yeah, it seems no more cylons are present on the Galactica, since her restriction is to that ship only and civilians can't access it, they could have parties on Galactica and no one would know. Which makes me wonder..

Do the cylons know that the other Sharon was killed? For all they know, there are still 2 Sharons on board since the one they watched on Caprica is now aboard the Galactica with the baby. But there was always their Sharon who shot Adama, surely if Cally was a cylon or if Gaeta was a cylon or Dee, they would have known that Sharon was alive and the other Sharon is dead.

madk99
September 22nd, 2005, 08:51 PM
Remember what Leoben said on Ragnar. "When I die my consciensness (sp?) will transfer to another. And when it does I think I'll tell them exactly where you are" Paraphrased a bit but you get it. Assuming he is telling the truth (I know. I know!!) That implies no information is transferred until death. That also jibes with what Sharon 2 said about not being in contact all the time. "it doesn't work that way."
This also implies one of two things. 1) there is a stock of each humanoid model sitting in a closet without a mind until it gets downloaded into them. or 2) Each model that rolls off the assembly line is given the same mind. Maybe a stock mind for the model but more likely the most current version of the wetware. I think possibility two is more plausible. That would mean when Sharon 1 was cacked by Cally her mind was added to the rest and each Sharon model was upgraded to version 1.1. This would explain how she has memories of the Cheif. Now that I explained it out it seems a lot like Jadzia Dax remembering/reliving the life of Kurzon.

LoneStar1836
September 22nd, 2005, 09:13 PM
Do the cylons know that the other Sharon was killed? For all they know, there are still 2 Sharons on board since the one they watched on Caprica is now aboard the Galactica with the baby. But there was always their Sharon who shot Adama, surely if Cally was a cylon or if Gaeta was a cylon or Dee, they would have known that Sharon was alive and the other Sharon is dead.Biers commented to Adama when he came to confiscate the tape, that Boomer2 looked “just like the late Lieutenant Valerii.” So she knew the other Sharon was dead – probably because it spread by word of mouth through the fleet, but then again maybe not. Now whether the others knew, I don’t know. I’m guessing they did because of the whole transfer of the consciousness deal. If they didn’t, I guess they do now.

MASON
September 24th, 2005, 06:30 AM
Now, listening to the commentary by Ron Moore, he makes it sound as though he was more interested and excited about the moment of revelation of the cylon D'anna than anything else. So, like the disappearance of Shelley, and the appearance of Hellen, I think we're just going to have to swallow this plot device and move on. It was shallow, but effective, unfortunately, not substantial in its excecution. Either way, Lucy is a cylon, and that's hotness.

I've got this other theory, that the twelve cylons, as they mirror the twelve colonies, could be based on the gods of the colonials. Xena just seems too much like Athena, "the grey-eyed goddess of cunning." Six could very well be based on Aphrodite, but my idea falls short for the others. I might be too eager to make correlations, but it would just be so cool if they were there. They sure do act like gods, they can't die, and they're almost omnipresent.

Just a thought.

Raptor 1
September 25th, 2005, 05:03 PM
more like shoot them both.. hate the wife and tigh well he's just a plain ass.

oh yes GAC booty NICE!!!!!!!!

Lol I think you mean CAG(Commander of Air Group)
But yeah I cant help but think tighs wife is a cylon. She just bugs me.

Kralizec
October 3rd, 2005, 10:33 PM
After listening to RDM's podcast, I really, really want to hear Tigh's line to Ellen when she's all "Tighed" up ;). He walks in, sees her bound & gaged, and says,"Not tonight Ellen".:eek: That still makes me laugh so hard, I nearly cry. I hope they have it in the DVD release.

shockwave
October 11th, 2005, 09:44 AM
After listening to RDM's podcast, I really, really want to hear Tigh's line to Ellen when she's all "Tighed" up ;). He walks in, sees her bound & gaged, and says,"Not tonight Ellen".:eek: That still makes me laugh so hard, I nearly cry. I hope they have it in the DVD release.
the Tighs, BDSM-freaks :p

anotherquestion
October 11th, 2005, 09:56 PM
...That implies no information is transferred until death. That also jibes with what Sharon 2 said about not being in contact all the time. "it doesn't work that way."
This also implies one of two things. 1) there is a stock of each humanoid model sitting in a closet without a mind until it gets downloaded into them. or 2) Each model that rolls off the assembly line is given the same mind. Maybe a stock mind for the model but more likely the most current version of the wetware. I think possibility two is more plausible. That would mean when Sharon 1 was cacked by Cally her mind was added to the rest and each Sharon model was upgraded to version 1.1. This would explain how she has memories of the Cheif. Now that I explained it out it seems a lot like Jadzia Dax remembering/reliving the life of Kurzon.
I think there are a couple of flaws to this exact specification of memory transfer only at death, and only to a "blank model".

How, then, would Caprica Boomer "remember" her relationship with Tyrol when Gallactica Boomer had not yet died? True, she didn't actually meet up with Tyrol until after Cally killed GB, but she acknowledged the fact that a releationship with "the Chief" existed while on Caprica in her "getting to know" Helo story. And she wasn't a "new model" that could be formatted (like a blank disk drive) only after GB's death. Also it would be very dangerous to plant an "uninformed" CB with Helo without a detailed knowledge base at least partially downloaded from GB's experience.

This implies there must be some transfer of experience before death among the Cylon models. Beyond that much is speculative. It could be that the dissemination of experience is not so unusual-- that it is by entirely mundane means such as oral or written reports or by wireless broadcasts (that was certainly reinforced by the outcome of this episode).

It's not likely that the Cylons can "broadcast" their experience and intelligence over a great distance, otherwise the Cylons would not have been surprised at seeing Caprica Boomer on Gallactica (since the "sleeper" Cylon, D'anna Biers, would have broadcast it before they saw the "Final Cut" footage). Nevertheless detailed knowledge of the experience of even "sleeper" Cylons like Gallactica Boomer had spread to at least one other Boomer model, on Caprica. It's a puzzlement.

It may be that certain instances of models are linked more closely than other instances, or that the transfer of consciousness is from a single donor to a single "tabula rasa" receiver (as a virutally continuous thread of experience) rather than broadcast to a larger community, or incorporated into a "hive consciousness" that becomes the new template for future instances.

LCD2YOU
October 14th, 2005, 12:28 PM
Remember what Leoben said on Ragnar. "When I die my consciensness (sp?) will transfer to another. And when it does I think I'll tell them exactly where you are" Paraphrased a bit but you get it. Assuming he is telling the truth (I know. I know!!) That implies no information is transferred until death. That also jibes with what Sharon 2 said about not being in contact all the time. "it doesn't work that way."
This also implies one of two things. 1) there is a stock of each humanoid model sitting in a closet without a mind until it gets downloaded into them. or 2) Each model that rolls off the assembly line is given the same mind. Maybe a stock mind for the model but more likely the most current version of the wetware. I think possibility two is more plausible. That would mean when Sharon 1 was cacked by Cally her mind was added to the rest and each Sharon model was upgraded to version 1.1. This would explain how she has memories of the Cheif. Now that I explained it out it seems a lot like Jadzia Dax remembering/reliving the life of Kurzon.As for what each "new model" of Sharon, 6, Leobon or the other Cylons know is based, IMHO, on distance. Only when the model who is experiencing "life" is close enough to a transceiver can it relay those memories.

That explains two things:

1: That is why the Cylons in the theatre didn't know that the Helo's Sharon is alive.

2: They are in the dark about what is going on so needed the video feed to fill them in on what's happening in the fleet.

So the Cylons are not omnipotent, but they are pretty aware of what the human fleet is doing, even though they may not know exactly what is transpiring at each moment.

It would also indicated that Baltar's 6 is completely in his head. If it ia a mod to his brain by 6 or just his own psychosis is TBD.

skrip00
October 18th, 2005, 11:38 AM
I like this episode... it really reflects alot of whats going on in our world today... gg RDM :)

cyke
January 7th, 2006, 09:13 PM
I liked this episode because since Adama's shooting, we have been on a roller coaster ride and esp after they found the map to earth, the series needed a breather episode such as this one. it wasn't meant to be the best episode but to be a stand alone and let the audience get back on their feet. Plus it gives us a nice change of pace and lets us see the minor characters who are interesting as well.

the whole thing about dee being a cylon wouldn't be so far off track. as people kept mentioning their theories as to why she is one, i do have to agree that these are those "could go either way" .. all the female cylons with the exception of Xena were out for some action *ahem* and boomer and #6 got theirs. if dee was a cylon then you can think back to the mini series when she just kisses billy out of no where .. but i for one don't think she's a cylon.. well i hope she's not.

i think they played their, "surprise he's/she's a cylon" card already. to have a major character turn out to be one would just not work, granted dee is not a major character but the show has some major minor characters such as geata, billy, dee, and that girl who killed boomer. to make them cylons i think would not work out.

if they were to introduce us to a new cylon model, i like it better this way with a new character not any of the old ones.

the mind games the cylons play on the fleet are interisting. it is obvious they want them for breeding purposes and now that the fleet has found a clue to earth, they want them to continue and let them find earth and then have total control/destruction of all humans. but if the cylons know more about religion than the humans, why would they need them then? couldn't they just take apollo's arrow themselves? i mean they obviously knew where it was and yet they kept it in the museum long enough for starbuck to take it? and cylons could easily take the fleet on anytime they want, so this is interesting.

jmr1972
February 6th, 2006, 08:36 PM
With the variety of opinions of this episode, I’m surprised the topic of D'Anna Biers being a Cylon didn’t take more notice. I’m sure I’m not the only one to suspect her not only being a Cylon but also she may very well be the Cylon leader. Throughout the show, we’ve seen how the human-Cylons have ensured their access to people of prominence. D'Anna Biers surely did this in making the decision to make a Galactica friendly news piece. Something that if she weren’t a Cylon and purely a news journalist would seem rather out of place. (At least in our society of new infotainment.)

Another thing to consider is the leaders in this show, Adama and the President are played by rather well known actors. It would seem likely that the Cylon leader would also be played by someone familiar. As well as it would seem fitting in this series where the human-Cylons are quite concerned with reproduction that a woman would also be Cylon leader.

There are a number of other nuances in this episode when viewed again in this light that take root, if you look for her being a Cylon and perhaps The Cylon. When I learned this week that Lucy Lawless would be in another episode I was convinced of her importance as not just another of the 12 human-Cylons.

I’m sure there are others here that will disagree with my rather flat analysis. I’m the first willing to admit much of it is gut feeling, and what I would probably be doing if I was at the helm of this series. I wanted to post this to at least begin the discussion.

Matt G
February 28th, 2006, 03:36 PM
1. Never really felt for Tigh and his death threat.

2. Kat getting out of whack...interesting enough to pick up those bits and pieces.

3. Biers as a Cylon. Woah! That's going to make things tasty. And yeah a pro-Galactica pic was probably done to earn Adama's trust.

Good ep.

MB.Eddie
November 9th, 2006, 09:16 AM
Loved this ep. Good to see Lucy Lawless play the role of D'anna Biers. She is a good actress.

I liked how the film crew were given full acess and how we were thus able to see areas of the ship, and sides of the crew that are rarely shown.

Kat on drugs was interesting. Just shows the pressure the Military, and especially the pilots are under.

Wasnt all that fussed on Tigh's death threats, but he handled it very well in the end.

Loved the video that Biers put together. Really speaks volumes of what they do.

I didnt think that she would be a Cylon, so that was a good twist. Hopefully we get so see more of her model in future eps.

the fifth man
September 8th, 2010, 06:19 PM
The wife and I watched this episode tonight. She is really enjoying this show thus far, and totally didn't see that end coming. She was shocked when it was revealed that D'Anna Biers was a Cylon. Good stuff.:)

Pharaoh Atem
November 20th, 2010, 09:39 PM
Starbuck: We just finished a 15-hour rotation.

Apollo: Yeah, well, you better get used to it. We're gonna be short o*n pilots till the rest of the fleet pulls the stick out of its collective fat ass.

Starbuck: [Snickers] More fallout from Tigh's moment of glory?

Apollo: You heard about his death threat?

Starbuck: Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. I just can't believe that I haven't been called in for questioning yet.

Apollo: Oh, you were top of the list. But don't worry, I told Tigh that you wouldn't know Caprican poetry if it was hot-soldered across your helmet.

Starbuck: "From the darkness, you must fall, failed and weak, to darkness all." Kataris. Not o*ne of his best. Can I be a suspect again? Please?

that end line cracks me up to this day :D

Professor_S
June 5th, 2011, 06:33 PM
Good ep. I liked the 'day in the life' feel of the episode. More than the plot with Kat or Tigh, I enjoyed the window into the life of the soldiers of the fleet.

I love Adama's reaction to the documentary. It showed wisdom and foresight.

And the reveal at the end - first time around, it surprised the *heck* outta me. Still think it's a great reveal. Especially after Biers produced that heartfelt documentary, I didn't see it coming at all.

Finally, love the nod to classic BSG in McCreary's score. :D