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View Full Version : Re: isn't it about time we get better weapons of daedalus an prometheus



Qasim
September 2nd, 2005, 01:12 PM
with all the advances we have made building those ships. the countless worlds we have visited. we can't come up with better weapons systems for our battlecruisers and attack fightersno we cant

what do you suggest?

jsw
September 2nd, 2005, 01:13 PM
with all the advances we have made building those ships. the countless worlds we have visited. we can't come up with better weapons systems for our battlecruisers and attack fighters

captain keys
September 2nd, 2005, 01:15 PM
i gess not

JanusAncient
September 2nd, 2005, 04:30 PM
When are they going to build a mothership, since the Daedalus is a battle cruiser, an Earth mothership, accompanied by three Daedalus class ships, I want to see this more than new weapons, but new weapons would be nice.

Ascended Times.2
September 3rd, 2005, 04:27 AM
By new weaons, i suppose you mean energy weapons to replace the nukes they get shot down, countermeasures inplaced, the energy absorbed off them....
DAMN nukes suck on a galactic scale! I would of thought they would have retrofitted some Al-kesh guns onto the Prometheus by now and beefed them up a little making them a ha'tak powered blaster (do they have real names...?)

Indum'kra
September 3rd, 2005, 05:35 AM
We should:
1) Try and convince the Asgard to give us weapons.
2)Hope the Furlings left begind something good.
3)Beg the Asgard for weapons.
4)Build faster, better warheads.
5)Hold Thor to ransom for weapons.
6)Build a Mass-driver (really, really big Rail gun)
7)Hold Thor to ransom then beg for weapons.

jsw
September 3rd, 2005, 07:36 PM
exactly we need some kind of energy weapon system, the daedalus is a joke .
it is a cargo vessel with very little weaponery. I guess the writers think it would make the show to much like star trek if we were able to build energy weapons

Schrodinger82
September 3rd, 2005, 11:40 PM
Personally, I think everything is fine as is. I mean, what's wrong with your ship fire aimlessly at no target in particular while your crewmen whine about how you're quickly losing shield power and need to recharge? If any of you have a better way to fight people in space, then I would like to hear it.

Serioulsy, though, has the Prometheus or the Deadelus ever managed to shoot down ANYTHING? It makes you wonder why they have any guns at all.

_Owen_
September 4th, 2005, 08:10 AM
Lol, I doubt the last one would work...

Owen Macri

Eoin
September 4th, 2005, 08:15 AM
Serioulsy, though, has the Prometheus or the Deadelus ever managed to shoot down ANYTHING? It makes you wonder why they have any guns at all.
ROFL :D

_Owen_
September 4th, 2005, 08:18 AM
Lol, I think you are right... I don't remember it shooting down anything. Maybe a couple gliders... It took out the Wraith ship with an Asgard weapon, not even a gun.

Owen Macri

silent101
September 4th, 2005, 10:19 AM
Nope I clearly rember it shooting down an ak'leash in season 8 not sure what epp but i know it shot one down and relitivly quick. Also owen that was the dudleus that took out the 3 hive ships in the seage pt.3 with beaming teck and the clocaked jumper took out the 4th hive ship.

Edit: oops thought this was promie weapons we were talking about. The dudilus shot down a few darts in sege pt.3 and thats about it. But then a m249 SAW will take out a dart so thats not much of an acomplishment is it.

Macilnar
September 4th, 2005, 10:36 AM
I say they take the blueprints for that "ground equivalent to the Ancient satellite" the Atlantis team found in "TRINITY" and equip the Daedalus with some of them. There is no way you are going to tell me they didn't get the blueprints on that thing before it went supernova, not when the Daedalus had been hiding in orbit above the planet with Asgard scanners, no way and if they didn't then the people who wrote the script should be shot I didn't care what kind of reasoning they try to pull there is no way the military wouldn't have scanned that thing, no way. And don't even think of saying that having that weapon would ruin the story line because it wouldn't.

vandred
September 4th, 2005, 10:48 AM
remember the alkesh are weak remember in avalon when mitchell shot down one with an f-302, so i think that we are fine at it is the only thing is to do not make it like star trek well im tired of that who cares as long as its cool and the audience like it well i wouldnt mind some energy weapons from the asgard or any race as long as it kicks some ass. But the best thing would be if we get some new weapons on our own i mean u guys remember in atlantis episode condemend when shepard'd team brought a scientist to atlantis and he was pritty smart and i think that mckay and zelenka and everyone in atlantis can make a new weapon they are definetly more smarter now and know how to deal with more advanced tech that is all im well and every1 else i suppose is wating for that we build new weapons. Like even if its not energy based as long as they are fast like rail guns except bigger blasts and can actually damage the hull i mean the daedalus can fire everysingle railgun shots at one target of a wraith hive ship lets say and it wouldn't realy do that much damage so we need better weapons the daedalus is only good when its realy close to the other ship so then it can shot the nukes, but i was also thinking y cant mckay and zelenka fit the daedalus with an invisibilty cloaking jumper thing i mean they fitted the atlantis city and the daedalus is smaller. Also this is what i picture lets say in a season finale that u guys kno that sg-1 is like a little behind always on the episodes and atlantis is like more to the future by weeks or so, and o well i dont kno y i would put this but anyways spoilerspoilersspoilersspoilersspoilerspoilersspoilersspoilersspoilerspoilersspo ilersspoilersspoilerspoilersspoilersspoilers
spoilerspoilersspoilersspoilers
spoilerspoilersspoilersspoilers NOT REALLY MAYBE LOL
spoilerspoilersspoilersspoilers
spoilerspoilersspoilersspoilers
well like i was saying in later episodes in sg-1 earth has the new daedalus ship the oddyssey and ethon i think not sure about that one but anyway and it is concluded that at the rate earth can build a daedalus ship in 6 months but not totally ready for in the upcoming episode the oddyssey is not finished but attends sg-1 u kno to beam them out of trouble since the prometheus is not their, but they dont say y who knows ori messed it up who knows and anyways by season finale we kno that vala is coming back and that the ori come again so maybe this time with ships and we will have by the season finale episode 20 about 5 ships lets see:
1: Prometheus If its fixed
2: Original Daedalus
3: Oddyssey
4: Ethon
5: Other unkown daedalus name
6:Atlantis aurora hopefully operational orelse doesn't count
7: I hope another daedalus lol the more the merrier
8:Asgard maybe
Oh yea and also like i had said before sg-1 is always behind schedule and atalntiis ahead so in their season finale we kno that more hive ships are coming it said a fleet and the ones that came before the 12 were a squadron so imagine a fleet 20 lol well and geni are back so ah well and yea well lets say that the earth shisp fight with ori ships right we fight them and lets say we get out of the fight as we always do we are good guys and then atlantis needs help but hey all the ships are helping earth and all humanoids and other lifeforms on the milkyway unless by then they are fixed and then its ok but what if not i prefer that and like lets say they send just one the daedalus original representin and so its 1 vs 20ish & plus makes it exciting and shileds collapsing atlantis and then who knows hopefully the alliance isnt the genii and some new or other people come to help
with ships
maybe
aurora
ancients
and yea lol what u people think

Macilnar
September 4th, 2005, 11:01 AM
remember the alkesh are weak remember in avalon when mitchell shot down one with an f-302, so i think that we are fine at it is the only thing is to do not make it like star trek well im tired of that who cares as long as its cool and the audience like it well i wouldnt mind some energy weapons from the asgard or any race as long as it kicks some ass. But the best thing would be if we get some new weapons on our own i mean u guys remember in atlantis episode condemend when shepard'd team brought a scientist to atlantis and he was pritty smart and i think that mckay and zelenka and everyone in atlantis can make a new weapon they are definetly more smarter now and know how to deal with more advanced tech that is all im well and every1 else i suppose is wating for that we build new weapons. Like even if its not energy based as long as they are fast like rail guns except bigger blasts and can actually damage the hull i mean the daedalus can fire everysingle railgun shots at one target of a wraith hive ship lets say and it wouldn't realy do that much damage so we need better weapons the daedalus is only good when its realy close to the other ship so then it can shot the nukes, but i was also thinking y cant mckay and zelenka fit the daedalus with an invisibilty cloaking jumper thing i mean they fitted the atlantis city and the daedalus is smaller. Also this is what i picture lets say in a season finale that u guys kno that sg-1 is like a little behind always on the episodes and atlantis is like more to the future by weeks or so, and o well i dont kno y i would put this but anyways spoilerspoilersspoilersspoilersspoilerspoilersspoilersspoilersspoilerspoilersspo ilersspoilersspoilerspoilersspoilersspoilers
spoilerspoilersspoilersspoilers
spoilerspoilersspoilersspoilers NOT REALLY MAYBE LOL
spoilerspoilersspoilersspoilers
spoilerspoilersspoilersspoilers
well like i was saying in later episodes in sg-1 earth has the new daedalus ship the oddyssey and ethon i think not sure about that one but anyway and it is concluded that at the rate earth can build a daedalus ship in 6 months but not totally ready for in the upcoming episode the oddyssey is not finished but attends sg-1 u kno to beam them out of trouble since the prometheus is not their, but they dont say y who knows ori messed it up who knows and anyways by season finale we kno that vala is coming back and that the ori come again so maybe this time with ships and we will have by the season finale episode 20 about 5 ships lets see:
1: Prometheus If its fixed
2: Original Daedalus
3: Oddyssey
4: Ethon
5: Other unkown daedalus name
6:Atlantis aurora hopefully operational orelse doesn't count
7: I hope another daedalus lol the more the merrier
8:Asgard maybe
Oh yea and also like i had said before sg-1 is always behind schedule and atalntiis ahead so in their season finale we kno that more hive ships are coming it said a fleet and the ones that came before the 12 were a squadron so imagine a fleet 20 lol well and geni are back so ah well and yea well lets say that the earth shisp fight with ori ships right we fight them and lets say we get out of the fight as we always do we are good guys and then atlantis needs help but hey all the ships are helping earth and all humanoids and other lifeforms on the milkyway unless by then they are fixed and then its ok but what if not i prefer that and like lets say they send just one the daedalus original representin and so its 1 vs 20ish & plus makes it exciting and shileds collapsing atlantis and then who knows hopefully the alliance isnt the genii and some new or other people come to help
with ships
maybe
aurora
ancients
and yea lol what u people think

I like but to add to my other post also add the "ground equivalent to the Ancient satellite" to Atlantis, teach the Wraith a lesson...
And here is the weapon for any one who doesn't know what I am talking about:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v115/Macilnar/projectarcturus03.jpg

Qasim
September 4th, 2005, 11:04 AM
I like but to add to my other post also add the "ground equivalent to the Ancient satellite" to Atlantis, teach the Wraith a lesson...
And here is the weapon for any one who doesn't know what I am talking about:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v115/Macilnar/projectarcturus03.jpgand how are we supposed to power this?

Macilnar
September 4th, 2005, 11:09 AM
and how are we supposed to power this?

For one thing it doesn't requier a lot of power it was only hocked up to that thing to releave the exces energy. Also remember how the Ancient satellite wasn't powered by a ZPM so that means maybe 1 or 2 naquadah reactors can power it, and that would be worth it.

vandred
September 4th, 2005, 11:35 AM
yea but since it doens't exist anymore there is no point

Macilnar
September 4th, 2005, 11:39 AM
I say they take the blueprints for that "ground equivalent to the Ancient satellite" the Atlantis team found in "TRINITY" and equip the Daedalus with some of them. There is no way you are going to tell me they didn't get the blueprints on that thing before it went supernova, not when the Daedalus had been hiding in orbit above the planet with Asgard scanners, no way and if they didn't then the people who wrote the script should be shot I didn't care what kind of reasoning they try to pull there is no way the military wouldn't have scanned that thing, no way. And don't even think of saying that having that weapon would ruin the story line because it wouldn't.

vandred read this. That is the point.

IMForeman
September 4th, 2005, 04:54 PM
Y'know how we should be fighting? Did anyone see The Last Starfighter? Death Blossom? Well, basically, your ship begins spinning around and around on y and z axes, and start firing. You'll create a sphere of fire in pretty much every direction around you, as well as limiting your enemies ability to focus attack on any part of your ship.

Well, it's a decent technique when you are surrounded by hostile forces at any rate.

-IMF

Lord §okar
September 4th, 2005, 05:03 PM
DAMN nukes suck on a galactic scale! I would of thought they would have retrofitted some Al-kesh guns onto the Prometheus by now and beefed them up a little making them a ha'tak powered blaster (do they have real names...?)
Alkesh create FUEL BOMBS, nukes release energies in the megaton range. Ha'tak guns are absolutely pathetic. Energy weapons are simply awful. The supposed ultimate weapon in Trinity? Yawn. A nuke would have done more damage. Seriously :rolleyes:.

Y'know how we should be fighting? Did anyone see The Last Starfighter? Death Blossom? Well, basically, your ship begins spinning around and around on y and z axes, and start firing. You'll create a sphere of fire in pretty much every direction around you, as well as limiting your enemies ability to focus attack on any part of your ship.
What about the x axis? How are you going to counteract the horrendous g-forces that will be generated if you're to spin fast enough to make a sphere of fire? Why are we spinning and not just mounting MORE GUNS.

The Daedelus is the best ship seen to date in stargate, and that's sad.

1) Try and convince the Asgard to give us weapons.
Urgh! It doens't matter if they give us weapons or not if they're still powered by our limited reactors and ridiculously overrated ZPMs!

remember the alkesh are weak remember in avalon when mitchell shot down one with an f-302, so i think that we are fine at it is the only thing is to do not make it like star trek well im tired of that who cares as long as its cool and the audience like it well i wouldnt mind some energy weapons from the asgard or any race as long as it kicks some ass. But the best thing would be if we get some new weapons on our own i mean u guys remember in atlantis episode condemend when shepard'd team brought a scientist to atlantis and he was pritty smart and i think that mckay and zelenka and everyone in atlantis can make a new weapon they are definetly more smarter now and know how to deal with more advanced tech that is all im well and every1 else i suppose is wating for that we build new weapons. Like even if its not energy based as long as they are fast like rail guns except bigger blasts and can actually damage the hull i mean the daedalus can fire everysingle railgun shots at one target of a wraith hive ship lets say and it wouldn't realy do that much damage so we need better weapons the daedalus is only good when its realy close to the other ship so then it can shot the nukes, but i was also thinking y cant mckay and zelenka fit the daedalus with an invisibilty cloaking jumper thing i mean they fitted the atlantis city and the daedalus is smaller. Also this is what i picture lets say in a season finale that u guys kno that sg-1 is like a
There are some keys I'd like to point out to you. The first is between caps lock and left control, called shift. You use it to start sentences. The last is above right shift and below backspace (or backslash on some keyboards). This key is the carriage return.

By employing these keys you too can write posts that people don't ignore.

Macilnar
September 4th, 2005, 05:05 PM
Y'know how we should be fighting? Did anyone see The Last Starfighter? Death Blossom? Well, basically, your ship begins spinning around and around on y and z axes, and start firing. You'll create a sphere of fire in pretty much every direction around you, as well as limiting your enemies ability to focus attack on any part of your ship.

Well, it's a decent technique when you are surrounded by hostile forces at any rate.

-IMF
Unless they aim for the center from where the fire is coming from...or they happen to fire like a 1,000 rounds a second like the Wraith. Now then that would also be a vary big waste of energy.

Lord §okar
September 4th, 2005, 05:11 PM
The density of fire would also decrease with r^2. Just stand far enough away from the ridiculous spinning ship and fire away.

Macilnar
September 4th, 2005, 05:30 PM
DAMN nukes suck on a galactic scale! I would of thought they would have retrofitted some Al-kesh guns onto the Prometheus by now and beefed them up a little making them a ha'tak powered blaster (do they have real names...?)
You can't possibly understand how great the gulf is between a nuke and Alkesh guns. Alkesh create FUEL BOMBS, nukes release energies in the megaton rang. Do you get it? Ha'tak guns are absolutely pathetic. Energy weapons are simply awful guns. The supposed ultimate weapon in Trinity? Yawn. A nuke would have done more damage. Seriously, get some knowledge.

Nukes are only good at long rang other wise you get caught in the blast too. Rail and energy guns are good at almost any range.


Y'know how we should be fighting? Did anyone see The Last Starfighter? Death Blossom? Well, basically, your ship begins spinning around and around on y and z axes, and start firing. You'll create a sphere of fire in pretty much every direction around you, as well as limiting your enemies ability to focus attack on any part of your ship.
What about the x axis? How are you going to counteract the horrendous g-forces that will be generated if you're to spin fast enough to make a sphere of fire? Why are we spinning and not just mounting MORE GUNS.

The Daedelus is the best ship seen to date in Stargate, and that's sad.

You don't count Atlantis as a ship then? And it is Daedalus not Daedelus.


1) Try and convince the Asgard to give us weapons.
Urgh! It doens't matter if they give us weapons or not if they're still powered by our limited reactors and ridiculously overrated ZPMs!

Overrated right...if you have something better then by all means share it with us.

Eoin
September 4th, 2005, 05:37 PM
Nukes are only good at long rang other wise you get caught in the blast too. Rail and energy guns are good at almost any range.
Thats why the ships have shields :P
The deadulas has a shield which would protect it from a nukes blast wave,
the wraith on the other hand have no shields on the hive ships as far as i know so a nuke would take it out in 1 shot ( if it was faster)
Rail and energy weapons have the advantage of spped

:)

Lord §okar
September 4th, 2005, 05:46 PM
Nukes are only good at long rang other wise you get caught in the blast too. Rail and energy guns are good at almost any range.
Energy weapons are essentially explosives, just as a nuke is. The only reason they wouldn't hurt you closer in is because they're so much less powerful.

You don't count Atlantis as a ship then? And it is Daedalus not Daedelus.
Actually, I do. Thanks ever so for the correction of my spelling, I guess I'd just gotten into a bad habit.

Overrated right...if you have something better then by all means share it with us.
Typical retort, no I don't have anything better I'm simply drawing attention to the fact that while they may have access to a great deal of energy they have very, very limited power. I suppose since ZPMs are fictional I've got a whole truckload of equally plausible, far better power sources. If we're after power sources that are sound then I suppose a lemon's better than the ZPM.

The deadulas has a shield which would protect it from a nukes blast wave,
If I were to ask you for proof of that statement, would you be able to deliver?

IMForeman
September 4th, 2005, 05:51 PM
Unless they aim for the center from where the fire is coming from...or they happen to fire like a 1,000 rounds a second like the Wraith. Now then that would also be a vary big waste of energy.

Firing randomly is, I'll grant you... the rotation isn't. I still think it would help with the shields... and of course you could fire your thrusters, but there's no way to know which way you'll wind up going... you could wind up crashing into an enemy ship.

Of course, this is why it was a technique of last resort in Last Starfighter. Only when you were surrounded and the enemy forces were closing in on you. I think such a fast, random rotational technique could help a ship from being boarded by hostile forces... it would be very difficult to compensate for, even for transporters, much less physical docking.

Oh, well. It's just a bit of a fun theory anyway. It looked impressive on screen. :D

-IMF

Macilnar
September 4th, 2005, 05:51 PM
Thats why the ships have shields :P
The deadulas has a shield which would protect it from a nukes blast wave,
the wraith on the other hand have no shields on the hive ships as far as i know so a nuke would take it out in 1 shot ( if it was faster)
Rail and energy weapons have the advantage of spped

:)
But then you are putting unnecessary strain on the shield.

Lord §okar
September 4th, 2005, 05:57 PM
Why are these starships battling in close quarters again?

Macilnar
September 4th, 2005, 06:02 PM
Nukes are only good at long rang other wise you get caught in the blast too. Rail and energy guns are good at almost any range.
Energy weapons are essentially explosives, just as a nuke is. The only reason they wouldn't hurt you closer in is because they're so much less powerful.

That’s the point the Rail and energy guns are more useful against an enemy like the Wraith, whose strength is in numbers.


You don't count Atlantis as a ship then? And it is Daedalus not Daedelus.
Actually, I do. Thanks ever so for the correction of my spelling, I guess I'd just gotten into a bad habit.
Then you are saying the Daedalus is a better ship then Atlantis?


Overrated right...if you have something better then by all means share it with us.
Typical retort, no I don't have anything better I'm simply drawing attention to the fact that while they may have access to a great deal of energy they have very, very limited power. I suppose since ZPMs are fictional I've got a whole truckload of equally plausible, far better power sources. If we're after power sources that are sound then I suppose a lemon's better than the ZPM.

I know there are far better power sources then a ZPM but this is Stargate and sadly the writers are not the brightest...heck ZPM's don't even use Zero Point Energy they draw power from a self contained region of Subspace!

Macilnar
September 4th, 2005, 06:04 PM
Why are these starships battling in close quarters again?
They don't always have a choice in the matter.

GateMan2000
September 5th, 2005, 05:17 AM
First off...Rail guns just suck. Like others have said, they have been proven effective against enemy's without shields. With shields, they are worthless. I agree that there are a lot better energy weapons than what the Goa'uld had. But given the Tauri's current tech level and unless they get some major help from some outside party, they will not have a good weapon. One thing that came to mind but they never understood how they worked, were the Tolan Ion cannons. Those were pretty effective weapons. If there was some way to incorporate this into all of the weapons scheme, I think the ships would pose enemy's much more of a threat. The Ion cannons could be used more for long range weapons and the Railguns for close range attack (if needed). Just my thougths... :)

Macilnar
September 5th, 2005, 08:45 AM
First off...Rail guns just suck. Like others have said, they have been proven effective against enemy's without shields. With shields, they are worthless. I agree that there are a lot better energy weapons than what the Goa'uld had. But given the Tauri's current tech level and unless they get some major help from some outside party, they will not have a good weapon. One thing that came to mind but they never understood how they worked, were the Tolan Ion cannons. Those were pretty effective weapons. If there was some way to incorporate this into all of the weapons scheme, I think the ships would pose enemy's much more of a threat. The Ion cannons could be used more for long range weapons and the Railguns for close range attack (if needed). Just my thougths... :)
True, it is just too bad the Tolan are all but gone. I still stand by what I stated earlyer, we reversengenr the "Trinity" weapon, lets just call it "TW" (I mean come on it is better then any other projectile/energy weapon we have) because Atlantis and the Daedalus need some kind of defenses, Daedalus only has so many nukes and like it has been said Rail Guns suck. Now as for powering the weapon there are a few ways this could be done:
1) each TW gets about 2 naquadah generators
2) Atlantis's TWs get powered by the ZPM if need be
3) Use naquadria to power them, hook 3 TWs up to one naquadria generator. Rig it so instead of using a buffer the excess energy is used to power the other 2 guns
4) Modify them so they require less power, making them weaker but it is better then nothing.
5) Offer the Asgard full access to Atlantis in exchange for 1 or 2 of their power generators...can't hurt to try.

Not the greatest thing that could be done but hey it is just an idea. What does every one think?

Lord §okar
September 5th, 2005, 03:28 PM
First off...Rail guns just suck. Like others have said, they have been proven effective against enemy's without shields. With shields, they are worthless. I agree that there are a lot better energy weapons than what the Goa'uld had. But given the Tauri's current tech level and unless they get some major help from some outside party, they will not have a good weapon. One thing that came to mind but they never understood how they worked, were the Tolan Ion cannons. Those were pretty effective weapons. If there was some way to incorporate this into all of the weapons scheme, I think the ships would pose enemy's much more of a threat. The Ion cannons could be used more for long range weapons and the Railguns for close range attack (if needed). Just my thougths...
For gods sake, people, do the thinking thing. The amount of energy you can deliver depends primarily on how much you can generate!!!!1111one If you hook an ion cannon up to the same power source as a rail gun it will deliver the same energy. If you hook a rail gun up to the same power source as an ion cannon (assuming you modify it to work with that kind of load) it will deliver the same energy as the ion cannon.

ets just call it "TW" (I mean come on it is better then any other projectile/energy weapon we have)
Nonsense. The explosions it created in the space debris were peurile. A small nuclear weapon would taken the jumper at those ranges.

Daedalus only has so many nukes and like it has been said Rail Guns suck.
I ask, what is this judged against? the grenade level firepowers sported by Goa'uld motherships?

Modify them so they require less power, making them weaker but it is better then nothing.
So you connect a energy firing weapon to the same power source as your rail guns, but expect it to be better?

Macilnar
September 5th, 2005, 05:37 PM
First off...Rail guns just suck. Like others have said, they have been proven effective against enemy's without shields. With shields, they are worthless. I agree that there are a lot better energy weapons than what the Goa'uld had. But given the Tauri's current tech level and unless they get some major help from some outside party, they will not have a good weapon. One thing that came to mind but they never understood how they worked, were the Tolan Ion cannons. Those were pretty effective weapons. If there was some way to incorporate this into all of the weapons scheme, I think the ships would pose enemy's much more of a threat. The Ion cannons could be used more for long range weapons and the Railguns for close range attack (if needed). Just my thougths...
For gods sake, people, do the thinking thing. The amount of energy you can deliver depends primarily on how much you can generate!!!!1111one If you hook an ion cannon up to the same power source as a rail gun it will deliver the same energy. If you hook a rail gun up to the same power source as an ion cannon (assuming you modify it to work with that kind of load) it will deliver the same energy as the ion cannon.
First learn about what you are talking about. Second of all Rail Guns work by magnetically propelling projectiles at high velocity, the amount of energy you put in only determines the speed at which the projectile moves at. So just because you hook up an Ion Cannon or the Trinity Weapon to the same power source does not mean they will do the same thing in one you are just propelling objects at high speed another you are firing energy blasts, see the deference?


ets just call it "TW" (I mean come on it is better then any other projectile/energy weapon we have)
Nonsense. The explosions it created in the space debris were peurile. A small nuclear weapon would taken the jumper at those ranges.
What is it with you and nukes? Nukes are pathetic as weapons against anything that isn’t ground based, I mean think about what you are saying these space ships can move at about 100,000mps what makes you think a nuke would be able to hit something moving at those speeds? The only reason the Wraith ships where taken out by nukes is because they were beamed aboard the Wraith ships, other wise the nukes would have done s***t.


Daedalus only has so many nukes and like it has been said Rail Guns suck.
I ask, what is this judged against? the grenade level firepowers sported by Goa'uld motherships?
I ask did you not read the part right before that? “Atlantis and the Daedalus need some kind of defenses, Daedalus only has so many nukes and like it has been said Rail Guns suck.” A Goa’uld Mothership has nothing to do with this. I am just stating that both need better arsenals.


Modify them so they require less power, making them weaker but it is better then nothing.
So you connect a energy firing weapon to the same power source as your rail guns, but expect it to be better?
In short yes because they are two DIFFERENT types of weapons. Your comparison is like saying “Hey if you put ten 9mm rounds in an automatic it will do the same thing as putting ten 9mm rounds in a semiautomatic.” Same ammo different weapons with different effects.

GateMan2000
September 5th, 2005, 06:43 PM
A lot of debate over weapons lol...What it all boils down to is when facing enemies with half way decent shields or ships...Railguns do not work. Preach on Sokar about the rail guns...I will gladly put money on a Wraith cruiser one on one with the Daedulas.

Macilnar
September 5th, 2005, 07:05 PM
A lot of debate over weapons lol...What it all boils down to is when facing enemies with half way decent shields or ships...Railguns do not work. Preach on Sokar about the rail guns...I will gladly put money on a Wraith cruiser one on one with the Daedulas.
That is the problem it is almost never 1 on 1 when fighting the Wraith. Which is why the Daedalus needs better weapons...like the Trinity Weapon or something.

EnigmaNZ
September 5th, 2005, 08:56 PM
Post 168
What the hell were you on when you wrote this load of drivel. It just went on and on without end, or punctuation.

Goa'uld weapons don't SEEM to work very well, because you are expecting it to work in a particular way, and it doesn't. The goa'uld blast wave hits more like a shockwave, little blast, debris thrown up, minor thermal effects. But be inside the object being targeted. A nimitz carrier disppeared in one apparent bolt from the sky, I am willing to bet it didn't punch a hole through the carrier, but crushed it.

A relatively small portable glider cannon totally destroyed the cockpit area of the al'kesh Tannith was piloting. In the tokra tunnels with surface bombardment going on, we saw those tunnels shaken, crushed, destroyed, the asgard underground base was breeched as well the same way. If we had seen the action from the surface we probbaly would be joking about the lack of effect of those same weapons.

They do not travel that fast, 10Km per second maybe. But then no energy weapon in SG does. A good example of the shock effect is the shots from the aprohis / sokar supership against the ha'tak, the ha'tak wasn't holed, or blown up, it was crushed. It had all the effect of being hit by a powerful shockwave.

When a goa'uld weapon hits, it seems to spread its effect over a wide area of the target. We only have to see the various destroyed planets and their leveled cities to know these weapons work well. Tollen is an example. Goa'ulds weapons really are designed to crush the oppostion. And their shields are designed to protect against these weapons.

Remember a ha'tak took out thors original ship. I don't believe the weapons on Anubis's ships were more powerful, but their upgraded shields allowed them to stay in the battle longer. If you see shots of non goa'uld weapons hitting goa'uld shields, a good example is the replicator ship against the aprohis / sokar ship, you see the hit is localised, the goa'uld sheild has to absorb the energy at that point, or the energy punches through. Compare this to a ancient or asgard shield, it disapates the energy over a wide area of the shield, this is the improvement I believe Anubis made to his shields. Thor expected to take out Anubis's ha'taks with a few hits, the tollens said they could take out a standard ha'tak with 1 or 2 hits. Both were wrong.

Installing a ha'tak class cannon into the nose of the prometheus, plus a number of al'kesh cannon as BPDS and glider cannon as CIWS while keeping the missile and RG armament would be realistic, we do now have a goa'uld sceintist, and have captured a number of goa'uld vessels, including Osiris ha'tak. Installing multiple ha'tak class cannon in the daedalus class, along with alkesh and glider cannon would also be perfectly reasonable.

The ion cannons used by other races are designed more for ship to ship battles, as we saw in Trinity, the blast punches through a hull in a small localised area and hopefully hits something important, powercore, engine, etc.

If I had acess to both weapon types and was arming the daedalus, I would have goa'uld hatak cannon on the underside for planetary bombardment, and ion cannon on the upperside, nose and tail for ship to ship.

Some here have worried about about plotlines, but for god's sake, we are still vastly outnumbered.

Macilnar
September 6th, 2005, 03:45 PM
Post 168
What the hell were you on when you wrote this load of drivel. It just went on and on without end, or punctuation.

Goa'uld weapons don't SEEM to work very well, because you are expecting it to work in a particular way, and it doesn't. The goa'uld blast wave hits more like a shockwave, little blast, debris thrown up, minor thermal effects. But be inside the object being targeted. A nimitz carrier disppeared in one apparent bolt from the sky, I am willing to bet it didn't punch a hole through the carrier, but crushed it.

A relatively small portable glider cannon totally destroyed the cockpit area of the al'kesh Tannith was piloting. In the tokra tunnels with surface bombardment going on, we saw those tunnels shaken, crushed, destroyed, the asgard underground base was breeched as well the same way. If we had seen the action from the surface we probbaly would be joking about the lack of effect of those same weapons.

They do not travel that fast, 10Km per second maybe. But then no energy weapon in SG does. A good example of the shock effect is the shots from the aprohis / sokar supership against the ha'tak, the ha'tak wasn't holed, or blown up, it was crushed. It had all the effect of being hit by a powerful shockwave.

When a goa'uld weapon hits, it seems to spread its effect over a wide area of the target. We only have to see the various destroyed planets and their leveled cities to know these weapons work well. Tollen is an example. Goa'ulds weapons really are designed to crush the oppostion. And their shields are designed to protect against these weapons.

Remember a ha'tak took out thors original ship. I don't believe the weapons on Anubis's ships were more powerful, but their upgraded shields allowed them to stay in the battle longer. If you see shots of non goa'uld weapons hitting goa'uld shields, a good example is the replicator ship against the aprohis / sokar ship, you see the hit is localised, the goa'uld sheild has to absorb the energy at that point, or the energy punches through. Compare this to a ancient or asgard shield, it disapates the energy over a wide area of the shield, this is the improvement I believe Anubis made to his shields. Thor expected to take out Anubis's ha'taks with a few hits, the tollens said they could take out a standard ha'tak with 1 or 2 hits. Both were wrong.

Installing a ha'tak class cannon into the nose of the prometheus, plus a number of al'kesh cannon as BPDS and glider cannon as CIWS while keeping the missile and RG armament would be realistic, we do now have a goa'uld sceintist, and have captured a number of goa'uld vessels, including Osiris ha'tak. Installing multiple ha'tak class cannon in the daedalus class, along with alkesh and glider cannon would also be perfectly reasonable.

The ion cannons used by other races are designed more for ship to ship battles, as we saw in Trinity, the blast punches through a hull in a small localised area and hopefully hits something important, powercore, engine, etc.

If I had acess to both weapon types and was arming the daedalus, I would have goa'uld hatak cannon on the underside for planetary bombardment, and ion cannon on the upperside, nose and tail for ship to ship.

Some here have worried about about plotlines, but for god's sake, we are still vastly outnumbered.
Good points but I must say this, do to the rate of fire of booth Goa'uld weapons they would not be suitable against an enemy like the Wraith. If anything we need to develop small nukes (small as in size, not necessarily in power) that can be shoot out of a rail gun type weapon, think about it firing hundreds of small nukes would be much better then any other weapon we could be using. All that needs to be done is to make nukes about 1' x 6" that would detonate on impact and we would have a powerful, fast firing weapon that wouldn't need much more power then a normal rail gun would require. It is just an idea and I know the writers will never even think of doing that, but hey if they did...bye bye Wraith...

What do you think Lord §okar?

Lord §okar
September 6th, 2005, 05:39 PM
First learn about what you are talking about. Second of all Rail Guns work by magnetically propelling projectiles at high velocity, the amount of energy you put in only determines the speed at which the projectile moves at. So just because you hook up an Ion Cannon or the Trinity Weapon to the same power source does not mean they will do the same thing in one you are just propelling objects at high speed another you are firing energy blasts, see the deference?
No, no I'm quite sure it's you who needs to step back and get some knowledge. Energy pulse, solid slug, who cares? Connected to the same power source they can only have a similar maximum energy imparted to them as can be output by the generator. Here, let me edify you: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamics)

in one you are just propelling objects at high speed another you are firing energy blasts, see the deference?
No, I don't think I do. They're both "energy" weapons, one, the glowy pulse, does damage by converting its internal energy (in whatever state) into explosive kinetic and thermal energies, the other, solid rail slug, damages by imparting kinetic energy and tearing which, through friction and work heating, released thermal energy. The shot/slug is only a means of facilitating the transfer of energy from your ships reactor to the enemy ships hull. Attached to the asme power source both the glowy pulse and rail guns will only be able to fire projeciles imparted with the same energy in each case.

Nukes are pathetic as weapons against anything that isn’t ground based, I mean think about what you are saying these space ships can move at about 100,000mps
Care to explain how you arrived at that figure, or the conclusion that spaceships have a maximum velocity? Gee, the visibly very slow blue shots seemed quite capable of tracking the puddle jumper. Can't have been going too fast, even at extraplanetary ranges.

You've failed to address the point which is that if a nuke detonated where those shots from the Trinity weapon did the puddlejumper would have been vapourized. The point is that the Ancients uber-weapon is less energetic than a small nuclear device.

I ask did you not read the part right before that? “Atlantis and the Daedalus need some kind of defenses, Daedalus only has so many nukes and like it has been said Rail Guns suck.” A Goa’uld Mothership has nothing to do with this. I am just stating that both need better arsenals.
I did read it actually, since it seems you have the reading comprehension of a turtle I'll elucidate. You said "rail guns suck", I said "compared to what? Goa'uld guns?"

Rail guns are superior to just about every energy weapon seen on the show.

In short yes because they are two DIFFERENT types of weapons. Your comparison is like saying “Hey if you put ten 9mm rounds in an automatic it will do the same thing as putting ten 9mm rounds in a semiautomatic.” Same ammo different weapons with different effect.
No. The explosive energy of the glowy blue pulse will NOT exceed the kinetic energy of the rail slug. Do you know what conservation of energy means?

And yes, putting the same ammunition in different guns will illicit the same effects from both (barring inconsistencies in the weapons themselves).

Goa'uld weapons don't SEEM to work very well, because you are expecting it to work in a particular way, and it doesn't. The goa'uld blast wave hits more like a shockwave, little blast, debris thrown up, minor thermal effects. But be inside the object being targeted. A nimitz carrier disppeared in one apparent bolt from the sky, I am willing to bet it didn't punch a hole through the carrier, but crushed it
"The whole carrier went up in one big fireball." There was an explosion inside of it and it was destroyed. Just the way I expect Goa'uld weapons to work.

Staff cannons release bolts equivalent to falling bombs. They penetrate slightly, as a result of the momentum and cross sectional area of the shaft, before blowing up. This is all.

A relatively small portable glider cannon totally destroyed the cockpit area of the al'kesh Tannith was piloting
And?

In the tokra tunnels with surface bombardment going on, we saw those tunnels shaken, crushed, destroyed, the asgard underground base was breeched as well the same way.
And we see the levels of firepower that caused those effects. The Tok'ra tunnels are no where near as deep as they suggest.

A good example of the shock effect is the shots from the aprohis / sokar supership against the ha'tak, the ha'tak wasn't holed, or blown up, it was crushed. It had all the effect of being hit by a powerful shockwave.
Crushed? Not blown up? Please, capture me some screenshots because I saw 8 bolts blow clean through the hull and blow up inside it causing the ship to most definitely explode and do so very energetically.

I don't believe the weapons on Anubis's ships were more powerful,
Well then you're wrong because Odin tells us they were. As proof Anubis' weapons caused the Nimitz carrier to explode, no normal Ha'tak can do that.

EnigmaNZ
September 7th, 2005, 03:34 AM
So Ha'tak weapons can cause a Ha'tak to explode, but not a Nimitz, the logic of the statement escapes me.

I was rewatching the Sokar/Aprohis versus Ha'tak battle again a few weeks ago, freezing, rewinding, replaying over and over, the 8 shots hit it, and the other structure appeared to blow apart, but without an explosion being evident, at least the level that would create this effect. I might have another look when I have time.

Ah Odin, had forgotten that. Still don't see a problem with 3 upgraded Ha'taks knocking out Thors ship, the weakness of the asgard vessels seems to be that they only have a primary cannon covering the forward arc. If you rotated the Ha'taks so the one with the weakest shield was always out of the firing arc until it's shield recovered, they would eventually knock out thors shield, by blocking him with a ship he couldn't escape.

Whats the firing rate problem, the Ha'tak firing rate in Beachhead seemed fine.

Has anyone seen a wraith ship with a sheild operating, apart from the PJ that a wraith modified. I know it will probably only show when something hits it, and the only 2 I recall are the ion cannon, but the hive ship may have not being running with shields due to the fact it wasn't expecting to be attacked. The other was the cruiser hit by a drone, and they don't seem to cause the shield to react anyway. Just wandering. There was a statemant in from the captainof the Prometheus in Beachment about bringing "the main railgun" online, I hope it wasn't a blunder. Be nice to see a anti-capital ship RG.

It's unfortunate that the only time a energy rating has been given to the Ha'taks main cannon, it was in an alternative universe, so although everything tech wise seemed the same, the 200 megaton yield was knocked as only relating to that universe, though that is just as much speculation. A yeild of 8x10E17 doesn't seem outrageous for a capital class warship of the Ha'taks size belonging to a race that has been waging war for 10,000 years.

I agree KE is KE whether it is delivered by plasma or solid projectile, thought possibly the soild projectile would have the advantage of delivering the hit to a smaller area of the target.

Lord §okar
September 11th, 2005, 03:38 AM
So Ha'tak weapons can cause a Ha'tak to explode, but not a Nimitz, the logic of the statement escapes me.
Me too, do explain where you think I said that?

I was rewatching the Sokar/Aprohis versus Ha'tak battle again a few weeks ago, freezing, rewinding, replaying over and over, the 8 shots hit it, and the other structure appeared to blow apart, but without an explosion being evident, at least the level that would create this effect.
What "other structure", the pyramid or the black superstructure? Watch again, expansion is evident in the entire ship as soon as the first shot lands, it's just a little difficult to see. By the third shot the whole ship is expanding extremely rapidly and huge jets of flame are gouting out of it. The Ha'tak blew up real good.

Whats the firing rate problem, the Ha'tak firing rate in Beachhead seemed fine.
Huh?

Ah Odin, had forgotten that. Still don't see a problem with 3 upgraded Ha'taks knocking out Thors ship,
There were two, and I don't have a problem with it, either, what's your point?

Regardless of what "seems reasonable" they don't have it. They have deployed laughable firepower when the situation called for their most.

If you rotated the Ha'taks so the one with the weakest shield was always out of the firing arc until it's shield
Don't assume there are different shield zones.

Schrodinger82
September 12th, 2005, 01:37 AM
First learn about what you are talking about. Second of all Rail Guns work by magnetically propelling projectiles at high velocity, the amount of energy you put in only determines the speed at which the projectile moves at. So just because you hook up an Ion Cannon or the Trinity Weapon to the same power source does not mean they will do the same thing in one you are just propelling objects at high speed another you are firing energy blasts, see the deference?
No, no I'm quite sure it's you who needs to step back and get some knowledge. Energy pulse, solid slug, who cares? Connected to the same power source they can only have a similar maximum energy imparted to them as can be output by the generator. Here, let me edify you: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamics)

:: sigh ::

The primary flaw in your analogy is this: You're assuming that all weaponry is going to be 100% efficient in channeling energy. It's not. In fact, the second law of thermodynamics which states that everything moves towards entropy makes it physically impossible. As such, some weapons will be more efficient at channeling energy than others.

Are you aware of where the history of thermodynamics came from? Basically, it came from a bunch of guys working with steam engines. In this case, the "energy source" (coal) was always the same. The intention of thermodynamics was to create improved designs which would use that energy source more efficiently. So instead of converting 10% of the released energy into work, maybe you can find a way to convert 15% or 20%.

This is pretty much the very foundation on which thermodynamics was based. I mean, why do you think hybrid cars are more efficient than regular cars are? Do you think they just make extra gasoline by magic or something?

So yes, it's entirely possible for two different weapons hooked up to the same output to have different outputs.


Rail guns are superior to just about every energy weapon seen on the show.

A single tollan Ion cannon can take out an entire mother ship.

A rail gun can take out... what?

Lord §okar
September 12th, 2005, 02:48 AM
The primary flaw in your analogy is this: You're assuming that all weaponry is going to be 100% efficient in channeling energy. It's not. In fact, the second law of thermodynamics which states that everything moves towards entropy makes it physically impossible. As such, some weapons will be more efficient at channeling energy than others.

Are you aware of where the history of thermodynamics came from? Basically, it came from a bunch of guys working with steam engines. In this case, the "energy source" (coal) was always the same. The intention of thermodynamics was to create improved designs which would use that energy source more efficiently. So instead of converting 10% of the released energy into work, maybe you can find a way to convert 15% or 20%.

This is pretty much the very foundation on which thermodynamics was based. I mean, why do you think hybrid cars are more efficient than regular cars are? Do you think they just make extra gasoline by magic or something?

So yes, it's entirely possible for two different weapons hooked up to the same output to have different outputs.
Thanks ever so for correcting that higly consequential neglection on my part. I can't for the life of me work out why I might have forgotten to mention entropy. Oh, that's right, I did, just not directly.

In your quest to find fault in the semantics you missed the intent of the message:

Energy pulse, solid slug, who cares? Connected to the same power source they can only have a similar maximum energy imparted to them as can be output by the generator.

Maximum energy, not identical energy. Ok, so maybe you missed that key reference, that's understandable. Is it possible to miss two?


And yes, putting the same ammunition in different guns will illicit the same effects from both (barring inconsistencies in the weapons themselves).

The same stuff run through different guns will blow up just as good, barring inconsistencies in the weapons themselves (gee, that sound awfully similar to what you just said).

A single tollan Ion cannon can take out an entire mother ship.

A rail gun can take out... what?
Come on. All things being equal.

The point of my posts here have been to convey the point that your weaponry can be as "advanced" as what have you but if you hook it up the a 9V square cell it won't do much at all. Let's give the rail gun the same power tolerances and the same power generator, how do you think it will go vs the ion cannon now?

This is pretty much the very foundation on which thermodynamics was based. I mean, why do you think hybrid cars are more efficient than regular cars are? Do you think they just make extra gasoline by magic or something?
Yes. Magic was the order of the day, or so was my misguided belief. You learn something every day, I guess.

Are you aware of where the history of thermodynamics came from? Basically, it came from a bunch of guys working with steam engines. In this case, the "energy source" (coal) was always the same. The intention of thermodynamics was to create improved designs which would use that energy source more efficiently. So instead of converting 10% of the released energy into work, maybe you can find a way to convert 15% or 20%.
Yes, actually, I am familiar with it.

Helo
September 12th, 2005, 12:15 PM
Lord §okar your not necessarly wrong all the time like people are trying to prove. But your comparisons just don't work. Seriouily. You can't say that the ancient "TW"(Trinity Weapon) is better then a nuke because it couldn't hit the PJ and the nuke could have. A nuke doesn't need to hit its target to be effective like the "TW" but it also loses alot of energy. The "TW" most likely channels almost all of its energy directly into the target. Unlike a nuke wich spreads it all over the place and it has such a big radius it doesn't need to hit directly.

Furthermore a nuke isn't all powerful like your claming. A good example hiroshima. Houses survived that were fairly close to the blast. (Of course the Deddy's nukes are alot more powerful and probally naquadah enhanced.) But say they are firing the nukes with missles and not the transporter because the wraith can block it. If they are smart they will detonate the nuke in the middle of a group of hiveships crippling them instead of destroying just 1 or 3. Now the nuke is more powerful the the ones used in hiroshima but they are going against a starship hull wich is stronger then that of a Ha'tak. How do I know this? The fact that the wraith don't have shields. If you don't have shields to block simple things like lets say space debris so that you can fly without being gutted by sand and small rocks you better make sure you have a well designed or reinforced hull. So I think an Goa'uld energy based weapon would be more effective. The Goa'uld weapons arn't all that bad. And neither are whatever the wraith use. We should be strapping on some Al'kesh weapons, Ha'tak weapons, Death Glider guns. Anything that will fit and will work. Rite now without the asgard transporter the Deddy and the Prommie have Rail Guns and F-302s. Rail guns, are totally useless against anything besides fighters and unshielded craft. and F-302s are good for fighter to fighter without nukes. But remember each ship has 8 F-302s so in almost any battle the F-302s are vastly outnumbered.

Im basically saying, you can't compare a deivce that transfers its energy directly to one that has a large radius. That and nukes are good, but are not efficent in transfer of energy. If you could find a weapon that transfers it directly like the "TW" then you have a nearly perfect weapon for transfer of energy and efficency. That and the Prommie and the Deddy are are to small and vastly underequiped. Its just a losing fight for them in every battle, it really is.

Schrodinger82
September 12th, 2005, 04:06 PM
Maximum energy, not identical energy. Ok, so maybe you missed that key reference, that's understandable. Is it possible to miss two?

The same stuff run through different guns will blow up just as good, barring inconsistencies in the weapons themselves (gee, that sound awfully similar to what you just said).

So basically your argument relies on the assumption that two completely different guns of two completely different natures won't have any major inconsistencies between them in terms of how they manage energy.


Come on. All things being equal.

The point of my posts here have been to convey the point that your weaponry can be as "advanced" as what have you but if you hook it up the a 9V square cell it won't do much at all. Let's give the rail gun the same power tolerances and the same power generator, how do you think it will go vs the ion cannon now?

All things being equal, the Deadalus rail guns couldn't even take out a single unshielded wraith hive ship even though it had a ZPM boosting it, where as an Atlantian satellite powered with a single naquadah generator would have had the power to take out all three.

Lord §okar
September 12th, 2005, 05:33 PM
Lord §okar your not necessarly wrong all the time like people are trying to prove. But your comparisons just don't work. Seriouily. You can't say that the ancient "TW"(Trinity Weapon) is better then a nuke because it couldn't hit the PJ and the nuke could have. A nuke doesn't need to hit its target to be effective like the "TW" but it also loses alot of energy. The "TW" most likely channels almost all of its energy directly into the target. Unlike a nuke wich spreads it all over the place and it has such a big radius it doesn't need to hit directly.
*sigh* I said the explosion of the TW shots in orbiting debris would be eclipsed by a nuke.

Furthermore a nuke isn't all powerful like your claming. A good example hiroshima. Houses survived that were fairly close to the blast.
Houses in direct path of the blast at critical distance (for such sized weapons) would not stand a chance. Extenuating circumstances must have been in effect if this is true. Cite your data, please.

I just don't see how this is relavant, anyway. Yield is yield is yield.

The fact that the wraith don't have shields. If you don't have shields to block simple things like lets say space debris so that you can fly without being gutted by sand and small rocks you better make sure you have a well designed or reinforced hull.
If you're travelling at half the speed of light a one gram meteorite is approaching you with the kinetic energy of a 5 gigaton nuke. I find it immensely unlikely that any ship made of real materials could withstand that kind of bombardment. Furthermore you'd be immune to any weaponry the Ancients could throw at you (the yieldless battering ram squids and aforementioned example of uber guns). What's much, much, more eay to swallow is that they have forward reaching deflectors to push debris out of the way.

The Goa'uld weapons arn't all that bad.
Oh yes they are. Alkesh wield infantry level firepower. The tomahawk missiles fired from human warships by the dozens each have more yield than the main gun of a Ha'tak warship. Watch the end of Condemned for an example of Wraith firepower.

where as an Atlantian satellite powered with a single naquadah generator would have had the power to take out all three.
Or so it was alleged.

Schrodinger82
September 12th, 2005, 07:11 PM
The fact that the wraith don't have shields. If you don't have shields to block simple things like lets say space debris so that you can fly without being gutted by sand and small rocks you better make sure you have a well designed or reinforced hull.
If you're travelling at half the speed of light a one gram meteorite is approaching you with the kinetic energy of a 5 gigaton nuke. I find it immensely unlikely that any ship made of real materials could withstand that kind of bombardment. Furthermore you'd be immune to any weaponry the Ancients could throw at you (the yieldless battering ram squids and aforementioned example of uber guns). What's much, much, more eay to swallow is that they have forward reaching deflectors to push debris out of the way.

So when have we ever seen the wraith ships moving at one-half the speed of light outside of hyperspace?


where as an Atlantian satellite powered with a single naquadah generator would have had the power to take out all three.
Or so it was alleged.

There were three wraith ships.

One was taken out by a satellite.

One was taken out by a nuke.

The last was one just sitting there while the Deadalus was still armed with a ZPM. Even with a ZPM, were the rail guns able to take out the hive ship?

No.

Then they beamed the ZPM down to Atlantis, but they still had their naquadria reactors powering the ship. Even with the naquadria reactors, were the rail guns able to take out the hive ships?

No.

Any way you slice it, an Atlantian weapon is still more powerful than an Earth weapon, even with an inferior energy source.

Eoin
September 12th, 2005, 07:18 PM
Then they beamed the ZPM down to Atlantis, but they still had their naquadria reactors powering the ship. Even with the naquadria reactors, were the rail guns able to take out the hive ships?
Actually the Deadulas is powered by one or more asgard ion generators

Any way you slice it, an Atlantian weapon is still more powerful than an Earth weapon, even with an inferior energy source.
Agreed :)

Lord §okar
September 12th, 2005, 08:04 PM
There were three wraith ships.

One was taken out by a satellite.

One was taken out by a nuke.

The last was one just sitting there while the Deadalus was still armed with a ZPM. Even with a ZPM, were the rail guns able to take out the hive ship?

No.

Then they beamed the ZPM down to Atlantis, but they still had their naquadria reactors powering the ship. Even with the naquadria reactors, were the rail guns able to take out the hive ships?

No.

Any way you slice it, an Atlantian weapon is still more powerful than an Earth weapon, even with an inferior energy source.
This seems a little obvious to me but oh well. The satellite is an enormous gun that had been charging off the generator for ages (capturing its energy emitted at low power for a long time so it could be dispensed quickly), that's all. Comparatively the Daedalus is a warship which many other high drain systems running, not the least of which being the engines and dozens of other weapons, which is not even considering the fact that the guns themselves may not be capable of handling as much power.

Your argument is self-defeating, the supposition was that all things being equal the energy in a shot from two different guns will be the same. The corrolary of that is that if there is an incongruity then all things aren't equal.

Schrodinger82
September 12th, 2005, 08:57 PM
This seems a little obvious to me but oh well. The satellite is an enormous gun that had been charging off the generator for ages (capturing its energy emitted at low power for a long time so it could be dispensed quickly), that's all.

McKAY: The satellite’s fifteen hours away by Puddlejumper. I recommend that we put together a small crew – say myself, Grodin and a pilot.
SHEPPARD: I’ll go.
WEIR: No, Miller can handle it. Major, I need you to keep searching for alternate Alpha sites, just in case this fails.
McKAY: The hive ships will be in range of the satellite in forty-nine hours. We’re gonna need every last second of that time.

And later...

GRODIN: I think I found something like that. (He walks over to another laptop and types.) Yes, here it is. Right now the buffer’s at ninety percent.
McKAY: OK, so power’s getting to the buffer, it’s just not getting to the actual weapon.
GRODIN: Let me see if I can find a diagnostics programme. (He pushes controls on a couple of the satellite’s screens.) There must be one here.
McKAY (looking at his watch): OK, we’ve got twenty-nine hours til showtime, so let’s hope we don’t have to order parts, huh?

So 20 hours pass between the time and the briefing room and the time it takes to charge the satellite to charge the buffer at 90% capacity. 15 of those hours goes to travel time, leaving only 5 hours to set up, get ready, arrive, setup again, hook up all their equiptment to their satellite, and start charging.

That's not very much time.

Not to mention the fact that they were also powering up other systems, including life support, gravity, etc. Or the fact that Rodney was expecting to be able to hit the wraith again immeadiately afterwards with another hit, which implies that power generation wouldn't be an issue (THe reason they couldn't fire again was because the circuit they re-routed used overloaded).


Comparatively the Daedalus is a warship which many other high drain systems running,

So did the satellite. For instance, artificial gravity and life support.


not the least of which being the engines and dozens of other weapons,

Engines? It was in a stationary position.

As for the other weapons, the hive ship should have been a primary target. Especially when they had a ZPM.


which is not even considering the fact that the guns themselves may not be capable of handling as much power.

Which is an inherent limitation in the weapon itself.


Your argument is self-defeating, the supposition was that all things being equal the energy in a shot from two different guns will be the same.

Which might be true when all things are equal, but completely worthless when comparing two completely different weapons designed by two completely different technology.

ray245
September 13th, 2005, 05:46 AM
we should all let the ships start using mk 9 as primary missile or even weapon...it is several gigaton and the power of anubis superweapon is also roughly the same...this mean that we have a VERY powerful weapon against the gou'uld..but some calculation have shown that the blast was several teratons in firepower...

theStormWeaver
September 13th, 2005, 06:21 AM
I think we should atleast try to get some He'tak cannons, can't run out of ammo on those!! And they have a greater projectile velocity. They seem to be pretty effective against most opponents. But Area-51 is gonna have to come up with some serious tech before the Ori get here. They're gonna need something much more powerful than anything the gould, Asgard, Tolan, or Aschen ever had. We'll be fighting enemies that have the knowledge of the Ancients. (yes, I know the Ori are seperated from the Ancients by countless millenia, millenia is a thousand years, but they are Ascended and thus have the same knowledge)

Major Tyler
September 13th, 2005, 07:10 AM
I say they take the blueprints for that "ground equivalent to the Ancient satellite" the Atlantis team found in "TRINITY" and equip the Daedalus with some of them. There is no way you are going to tell me they didn't get the blueprints on that thing before it went supernova, not when the Daedalus had been hiding in orbit above the planet with Asgard scanners, no way and if they didn't then the people who wrote the script should be shot I didn't care what kind of reasoning they try to pull there is no way the military wouldn't have scanned that thing, no way. And don't even think of saying that having that weapon would ruin the story line because it wouldn't.Just because we have a blue print to something doesn't mean we can build it. Way to go saying the writers should be shot, asshøle. :mad:

EnigmaNZ
September 13th, 2005, 03:32 PM
a "main RG " was mentioned in Beachhead, so we will see. The current RG is a compact weapon to take out light fast unsheilded targets like gliders and alkesh. The mount carried 10,000 projectiles so they must have been small and light, and they traveled relatively slowly, mach 5 is only about 1.6 Kps. If the weight of the 10,000 rounds is about 500Kg, thats only 50 grams per projectile. I would think they are more likely to be half that, or the magazine would be too heavy to replace without lifting equipment. Not an anti-capital ship destroyer. If it can deliver 1Kg of mass to the target over a second, thats about 8Mw of energy. But can it can be scaled up to be one. With a spinal cannon and enough energy. To get a 1000Kg slug to impact with a yield of 200 Mt though, it is going to have to hit at about 23,000Kps. Not very realistic. But we need to cover 100Km in no more than a second so the enemy doesn't have time to react by moving or shooting it down, with a long spinal cannon 100Kps may be doable. A 1000Kg projectile hitting at that velocity will impact with about 5Tj of energy, about 1250 tons of TNT. Enough to destroy a unshielded large ship if it hits something critical. But to destroy a shielded mothership, we need MORE POWER (couldn't resist thst :D) so the projectile is going to have to provide that by exploding. A standard nuke probably couldn't survive the g force, so may be looking at a potassium / maquadria model. Anyway, that was fun, now for lunch and work.

Lord §okar
September 13th, 2005, 08:11 PM
McKAY: The satellite’s fifteen hours away by Puddlejumper. I recommend that we put together a small crew – say myself, Grodin and a pilot.
SHEPPARD: I’ll go.
WEIR: No, Miller can handle it. Major, I need you to keep searching for alternate Alpha sites, just in case this fails.
McKAY: The hive ships will be in range of the satellite in forty-nine hours. We’re gonna need every last second of that time.

And later...

GRODIN: I think I found something like that. (He walks over to another laptop and types.) Yes, here it is. Right now the buffer’s at ninety percent.
McKAY: OK, so power’s getting to the buffer, it’s just not getting to the actual weapon.
GRODIN: Let me see if I can find a diagnostics programme. (He pushes controls on a couple of the satellite’s screens.) There must be one here.
McKAY (looking at his watch): OK, we’ve got twenty-nine hours til showtime, so let’s hope we don’t have to order parts, huh?

So 20 hours pass between the time and the briefing room and the time it takes to charge the satellite to charge the buffer at 90% capacity. 15 of those hours goes to travel time, leaving only 5 hours to set up, get ready, arrive, setup again, hook up all their equiptment to their satellite, and start charging.

That's not very much time.

Not to mention the fact that they were also powering up other systems, including life support, gravity, etc. Or the fact that Rodney was expecting to be able to hit the wraith again immeadiately afterwards with another hit, which implies that power generation wouldn't be an issue (THe reason they couldn't fire again was because the circuit they re-routed used overloaded).



So did the satellite. For instance, artificial gravity and life support.



Engines? It was in a stationary position.

As for the other weapons, the hive ship should have been a primary target. Especially when they had a ZPM.



Which is an inherent limitation in the weapon itself.



Which might be true when all things are equal, but completely worthless when comparing two completely different weapons designed by two completely different technology.
Have you watched Siege III, like at all? The Daedalus beamed the ZPM down to Atlantis far before they even engaged the hive ships. They were running their engines through the entire confrontation (this is a visually confirmed fact), as well as their sheilds and many other thirsty systems whereas the satellite was charging for a couple of hours off a super-Nq reactor and was running only gravity and life support in a much smaller space with, no doubt, much more efficient machinery performing the tasks.

What, exactly, is your argument again?

it is several gigaton and the power of anubis superweapon is also roughly the same...
Drivel. Anubis' "super"weapon was barely kiloton range.

Schrodinger82
September 13th, 2005, 09:45 PM
Have you watched Siege III, like at all? The Daedalus beamed the ZPM down to Atlantis far before they even engaged the hive ships.

Okay, I just watched again, and you're right about the ZPM.


They were running their engines through the entire confrontation (this is a visually confirmed fact),

The "entire confrontation?" I don't think so. The only time we see the Daedalus use it's engines is after it exits hyperspace, where it's getting into position to engage the Wraith.

Whenever we look out the window later on, why do you think it is that the hive ship and cruisers move VERY slowly relative to the Deadalus? Are they all just moving at nearly the exact same speed in nearly the exact same direction? If the engines are running, then they're running at incredibly low power. Which should be evident, judging we get a "visual confirmation" of it.


as well as their sheilds and many other thirsty systems whereas

Yes, powered by a much more advanced Naquadriah reactor capable of transferring a massive spaceship across entire galaxies in less than three weeks. You're telling me that they couldn't find the available power to keep their weapons working on full if they wanted? I mean, worse case scenario, they hook up a dedicated Naquadah reactor to each gun.

That's like concluding that my TV must have less access to power than my remote control does, because my TV has to share its power with other appliances, where as my remote control does not.

Edit: Later in the episode, we see the same ship defend itself against 14 hive ships at once, while running it's engines, opening a hyperspace window, and STILL firing it's guns. So act like the act of defending itself against just ONE hive ship. Are you telling me that the power required to run the rail guns at full capacity is anywhere even close to the power of defending against 13 additional hive ships + a hyperdrive window?


the satellite was charging for a couple of hours off a super-Nq reactor

Wrong. First off, what basis do you have for calling it a "super-Nq reactor"? I see absolutely no indication that the reactor they used was in any way unique or different. It seems like you just made that up in order to support your case, but by al means, feel free to provide a piece of dialogue that says otherwise. Unlike you, I can actually admit my mistakes.

Secondly, once again, it doesn't take hours to charge:

SATELLITE. The remaining Wraith ships head for the satellite. In the Jumper, Rodney looks out the window anxiously.
McKAY: C’mon, hit ‘em again!
(Inside the satellite, alarms are sounding and panels are shorting out everywhere.)
GRODIN: We have a problem.
McKAY: What? What problem?
GRODIN (working the controls frantically): It looks like the circuit we re-routed has overloaded. The weapon can’t fire again. I’m trying to find another pathway.

Rodney and Grodin were both expecting to be able to IMMEADIATELY follow up with another shot. They were even expecting to be able to fire another shot AS THEY WRAITH WERE STILL BEARING DOWN ON THEM. This would not be the case if it took hours to charge.

Not to mention the obvious fact that Rodney would have mentioned something if it took "hours" to charge. I mean, do you really think he'd be telling Weir that the satellite could take out all three ships if that were the case? Don't you think he would have mentioned along the way, "This is a small chance, because even if we get off one hit, it'll be hours before we can make another"? But he didn't, which is why you're just grasping for straws.

Nowhere in that episode was power consumption an issue. The only issue at all was faulty wiring. If Grodin didn't have suffficient power to fire another shot seconds later, then why would the writers even have to add the "the circuit we re-routed has overloaded" explaination at all?


and was running only gravity and life support in a much smaller space with, no doubt, much more efficient machinery performing the tasks.

You're completely ignoring the fact that the Naquadriah reactors are far more powerful than a single Naquadah reactors are.


What, exactly, is your argument again?

My argument is that two completely different weapons of two completely different designs based on two completely different sets of principles would not necessary be equal in terms of how they manage and utilize energy. That some weapons will be more energy efficient than others, that some weapons will have higher capacity than others, and that some will distribute energy more effectively on their targets in order to inflict damage.

My second argument is that weapons that use energy developed by a completely different race on an entirely different planet will like function differently from a matter based weapon developed on Earth. Hence, any argument that "all things being equal" does not apply when making a comparison, because (shock) they're not equal!

My third argument is that the power of Naquadriah reactors designed for giant space ships absolutely DWARF the power requirements of a single naquadah generator.

What was your argument again?

Schrodinger82
September 13th, 2005, 10:28 PM
Another point:


SHEPPARD: What about the drones – can you patch enough power to arm them?
McKAY: They’re not as complicated as the DHD ... uh, maybe, maybe, maybe one, given the time constraints.
SHEPPARD: Then do it. (He jumps into the pilot’s seat.)
TEYLA: Can one drone shoot down an entire Wraith cruiser?
SHEPPARD: Well, maybe we’ll get a lucky shot. McKay?
McKAY (working on a console): Almost. Just give me one more ... and ... OK, we’re armed, go, before the power cuts out again!
(John activates the controls and a single drone shoots out of the Jumper, flies up and impacts on the underside of the cruiser.)
(In the approaching Jumper)
LORNE: Did you see that?
WEIR: A drone.
(In the grounded Jumper)
McKAY: We scored a hit!
SHEPPARD: Great. That’s either gonna buy us time or piss them off.
McKAY: I don’t know what we’re gonna do now.
WEIR (over radio): Colonel Sheppard. You’ve damaged the Wraith cruiser and it’s leaving the area ...

In "Condemned," a single drone is enough to critically weaken a wraith cruiser. A single drone uses relatively little power.

But in "The Siege:"


ATLANTIS. CONTROL ROOM. The technician sees the explosion on his screen.
TECHNICIAN: We have a kill. The last hive ship has been neutralised.
(Elizabeth smiles in relief, and turns to look at Radek, who is also smiling.)

DAEDALUS. BRIDGE.
CALDWELL: Novak, I need you to prep another warhead for transport. We need to take out those cruisers.

Note that even with the railguns and no hive ships to worry about, Caldwell STILL felt that the best option would be to waste valuable nukes on them, rather than simply shooting them down with the railguns?

We must conclude that either:

1) A single drone had access to more energy than the Daedalus does
2) A single drone is capable of outputting more energy than the Daedalus is
3) A single drone had access to less energy and outputs less energy, yet is more effective against the same enemy because it relies on entirely different principls.

So which is it?

And don't even try using that "Well, it was using energy for other systems, so it couldn't afford to power weapons!" excuse again. It's weak. Later in the episode, we see the ship shielding itself against FOURTEEN hive ships, engines running, opening a hyperspace window, and yet even then, it still managed to have enough power left over to continue firing weapons. So don't act as though defending a bunch of stray darts is going to be that big of a drain.

Lord §okar
September 13th, 2005, 10:42 PM
3) A single drone had access to less energy and outputs less energy, yet is more effective against the same enemy because it relies on entirely different principls.
^^ That's the one. A drone's destructive potential is not in any way related to how much energy it has access to. They have almost insignificant explosive yield. They do their damage kinetically, by entering sensetive areas deep within ships and damaging them. You can see this plainly at the end of Lost City 2. Anubis' ships blew up under their own power, the drones went in one side and out the other. They may not even have to batter their way through walls but rather "phase" to the other side. :rolleyes:

And don't even try using that "Well, it was using energy for other systems, so it couldn't afford to power weapons!" excuse again. It's weak.
Yes, sir!

EDIT: Oh look, another post. http://forum.gateworld.net/images/gw_buttons/edit.gif

My argument is that two completely different weapons of two completely different designs based on two completely different sets of principles would not necessary be equal in terms of how they manage and utilize energy. That some weapons will be more energy efficient than others, that some weapons will have higher capacity than others, and that some will distribute energy more effectively on their targets in order to inflict damage.
Yes, I agree entirely.

Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble
July 11th, 2009, 12:35 PM
massive spoiler!!

the Oddyssey and daedalus were given asgard weapons in s10 'Unending' just before they commited mass suicide

Durgia
July 11th, 2009, 05:37 PM
you do know this thread is 4 years old???!!??

hawkmajor
July 12th, 2009, 07:37 AM
massive spoiler!!

the Oddyssey and daedalus were given asgard weapons in s10 'Unending' just before they commited mass suicide

i though just the oddyssey got the upgrades

tjoflojt
July 12th, 2009, 09:29 AM
Oddy got them in Unending, the rest of the 304s were upgraded with them after that.

boyd18
July 14th, 2009, 11:26 AM
before they got the plasma beam weapons, people were complaining thatearth ships are weak because they dont have decent weapons....that it was time to get something that was more powerful then the railguns....but now that earth ships finally got some decent weapons (more then decent) people are still complaining...only now they're complaining about them being to powerful...that earth ships and specifically the oddyssey have become to powerful....

it just seems you cant satisfy anyone...

Buba uognarf
July 14th, 2009, 11:40 AM
before they got the plasma beam weapons, people were complaining thatearth ships are weak because they dont have decent weapons....that it was time to get something that was more powerful then the railguns....but now that earth ships finally got some decent weapons (more then decent) people are still complaining...only now they're complaining about them being to powerful...that earth ships and specifically the oddyssey have become to powerful....

it just seems you cant satisfy anyone...

Would it have been to hard to give the 304's standard Asgard pulse weapons? The Asgard beams are wank rays and plot devices which ruin any sort of suspense in space battles.

tjoflojt
July 14th, 2009, 11:45 AM
Would it have been to hard to give the 304's standard Asgard pulse weapons? The Asgard beams are wank rays and plot devices which ruin any sort of suspense in space battles.

they could have been fine, if they had kept them on the oddy. the rest of the 304s are underpowered the way it is, so why not give them a weapon they can power properly?

guppy338
July 14th, 2009, 11:47 AM
the reason they got ABW is because on the show the standard Asgard weapons did not work on the Ori so BW where needed to beat them it just so happed that they put them on the others so it for the first time gave us a advantige in weapons tec for the first time

Buba uognarf
July 14th, 2009, 11:50 AM
they could have been fine, if they had kept them on the oddy. the rest of the 304s are underpowered the way it is, so why not give them a weapon they can power properly?

I agree, the stunning power of the beam weapons could have been linked to the ZPM powering them instead we get all 304's owning everything in sight.


the reason they got ABW is because on the show the standard Asgard weapons did not work on the Ori so BW where needed to beat them it just so happed that they put them on the others so it for the first time gave us a advantige in weapons tec for the first time

Yes but now the Ori are gone and TPTB need to invent handicaps in battles to prevent Earth owning everyone that or wank up the Wraith to massive proportions.

guppy338
July 14th, 2009, 11:59 AM
Yes but now the Ori are gone and TPTB need to invent handicaps in battles to prevent Earth owning everyone that or wank up the Wraith to massive proportions.
i no that but atlantic and sg1 have ended apart form the new movies and SGU will not have it and the destany is falling apart so we will be back to square one agen

boyd18
July 14th, 2009, 03:21 PM
the way i see it is the beam weapons stength isn't because they're uber powerful, but rather there ability to be fired in rapid secession without a long recharge period...there ability to be fired in rapid secession let the Oddy punch through the ori ships shields without actually having to drain its them..

now we've seen the Oddy fire multiple times a min...but from what i've seen, normal 304's dont seem to fire as fast...so maybe thats there handicap right there...the oddy's ZPM enables it to fire faster then a normal 304...so i wonder how well a normal 304 wold do against a ori mothership...

oniel193
July 14th, 2009, 05:37 PM
well now theyve got asgard beams YEAH PWN THEM lol

hawkmajor
September 12th, 2009, 08:38 AM
well now theyve got asgard beams YEAH PWN THEM lol
does the george hammond though??

thekillman
September 12th, 2009, 08:58 AM
the railguns on the deadalus IMO suck, just as the missiles, and just as the 302's. now TBH, we dont need uber plasma weapons to solve that.

1: railguns. add two more "rails" that are not connected to the main rails. they generate an additional magnetic field which augments the railgun. doubling or so it's power.

2: Missiles. i know, they're expensive. but mostly, that applies to ICBM's. space has no range. i think adding a small powersource (like a staffweapon's), along with a VASIMR drive, will significantly enhance it's speed and maneuverability, and make our missiles well, better. also, detonate their nukes ON the shield and dont let the missiles harmlessly impact them.

regarding the cost of nukes: america still has to reduce the amount of nukes it has. take the nukes scheduled for demolition, add a few bricks of naquahdah and push them in these missiles. (relatively) cheap and easy.

3: energy weapons. i think that the 304's should have adaptable turrets. so when a 304 goes off to fight the wraith, these energy hardpoints have Particle Beam Cannons mounted on them (A Hundred Days, Serpent's Song (i believe)). when we fight enemies with shields, we replace them with energy cannons of our own design, a ship-grade version of the X-699 made to function.

without using the Asgard in any way, our 304's would be way better. much greater firepower.

hawkmajor
September 13th, 2009, 12:19 PM
the railguns on the deadalus IMO suck, just as the missiles, and just as the 302's. now TBH, we dont need uber plasma weapons to solve that.

1: railguns. add two more "rails" that are not connected to the main rails. they generate an additional magnetic field which augments the railgun. doubling or so it's power.

2: Missiles. i know, they're expensive. but mostly, that applies to ICBM's. space has no range. i think adding a small powersource (like a staffweapon's), along with a VASIMR drive, will significantly enhance it's speed and maneuverability, and make our missiles well, better. also, detonate their nukes ON the shield and dont let the missiles harmlessly impact them.

regarding the cost of nukes: america still has to reduce the amount of nukes it has. take the nukes scheduled for demolition, add a few bricks of naquahdah and push them in these missiles. (relatively) cheap and easy.

3: energy weapons. i think that the 304's should have adaptable turrets. so when a 304 goes off to fight the wraith, these energy hardpoints have Particle Beam Cannons mounted on them (A Hundred Days, Serpent's Song (i believe)). when we fight enemies with shields, we replace them with energy cannons of our own design, a ship-grade version of the X-699 made to function.

without using the Asgard in any way, our 304's would be way better. much greater firepower.
i like your ideas but the asgard weapons are great and why would "we" sacrifice the asgard core

lordofseas
September 13th, 2009, 12:55 PM
does the george hammond though??

It is a Daedalus class, so logically, it would, unless Earth has created a new uber superheated plasma beam weapon that can be mounted on ships.

hawkmajor
September 13th, 2009, 12:56 PM
It is a Daedalus class, so logically, it would, unless Earth has created a new uber superheated plasma beam weapon that can be mounted on ships.
ah...
yes...
good point...

Saquist
September 13th, 2009, 01:27 PM
Was Continuum inconistent or did Odyssey get shield upgrades?

We saw it take multiple blast from those Ori Motherships when we saw other ships only take 2.

boyd22
September 13th, 2009, 08:38 PM
Was Continuum inconistent or did Odyssey get shield upgrades?

We saw it take multiple blast from those Ori Motherships when we saw other ships only take 2.

you mean ark of truth?

its possible that it was a inconsistency but its also possible that the Odyssey's shield was never at full strength (a few Ori beam hits and the blast wave from the destruction of the Asgard's planet) when it faced the the Ori ships in unending...we know a zpm powered 304's shields can withstand alot, evidence of this is when the Daedalus took a direct hit from a coronal mass ejection at point blank range for atleast 5 mins....which is easily much more powerful then the Ori's main weapon...so its possible the pounding the Odyssey's shields took in ark of truth represent its strength when fully charged...

thekillman
September 14th, 2009, 08:14 AM
i like your ideas but the asgard weapons are great and why would "we" sacrifice the asgard core

it were the changes i had hoped TPTB would've made instead of just strapping some uberguns on them

hawkmajor
September 14th, 2009, 09:12 AM
it were the changes i had hoped TPTB would've made instead of just strapping some uberguns on them
yes, true...
excuse my ignorance, but:uber-??

thekillman
September 14th, 2009, 10:43 AM
über.

essentially, overkill. the APBW's were unnecessary. though i always dreamed of plasma weapons, i was hoping for something we earned through hard work. not as a gift. i think we get too many gifts. i loved the time where we had to work hard to get a ship off the ground. i had actually hoped the asgard simply showed us some features of shields so we could upgrade our own, and helped us with our ship design. not install some toys and ensure they're compatible.

i may sound cynical, but it made us too powerfull WAY too fast

hawkmajor
September 14th, 2009, 11:05 AM
über.

essentially, overkill. the APBW's were unnecessary. though i always dreamed of plasma weapons, i was hoping for something we earned through hard work. not as a gift. i think we get too many gifts. i loved the time where we had to work hard to get a ship off the ground. i had actually hoped the asgard simply showed us some features of shields so we could upgrade our own, and helped us with our ship design. not install some toys and ensure they're compatible.

i may sound cynical, but it made us too powerfull WAY too fast
thanks and they did

lordofseas
September 14th, 2009, 11:34 AM
über.

essentially, overkill. the APBW's were unnecessary. though i always dreamed of plasma weapons, i was hoping for something we earned through hard work. not as a gift. i think we get too many gifts. i loved the time where we had to work hard to get a ship off the ground. i had actually hoped the asgard simply showed us some features of shields so we could upgrade our own, and helped us with our ship design. not install some toys and ensure they're compatible.

i may sound cynical, but it made us too powerfull WAY too fast

I agree. Although, in sense of the canon, it did make sense that they wanted to be remembered. The Asgard, I mean. Atlantis' tech, we don't even fully understand. With Asgard stuff, it's a matter of moving a few stones, and voila, it's on the screen with lovely explanations from the Almighty Thor.

thekillman
September 14th, 2009, 11:38 AM
i get that they wanted to be remembered. and i get that giving us a cryptical database would be stupid.

i just do not agree with the whole concept of unending. their sacrifice -fine. but getting such easy access.... nah.

naquahdriah wasnt a fail. capacitors and such could have equalled the output. just keep the drained power within the regions that is safe.

guppy338
September 15th, 2009, 03:12 PM
at the start of this thred we where complaning that the stuff we had was not good the pont was that all through the show we where ment to be under dogs but at the end and the death of the asgard we had to stop being the underdog and be the big dog insted of the asgard or gould

thekillman
September 16th, 2009, 08:14 AM
your point being?

Duskofdead
September 16th, 2009, 08:31 AM
über.

essentially, overkill. the APBW's were unnecessary. though i always dreamed of plasma weapons, i was hoping for something we earned through hard work. not as a gift. i think we get too many gifts. i loved the time where we had to work hard to get a ship off the ground. i had actually hoped the asgard simply showed us some features of shields so we could upgrade our own, and helped us with our ship design. not install some toys and ensure they're compatible.

i may sound cynical, but it made us too powerfull WAY too fast

I think if they had stated that we weren't ready for their technology and they wanted to make sure it didn't fall into the wrong hands, and took it all with them when we blew up, then this thread would be "Why didn't the Asgard at least help us with shield or weapon tech we could use against the Ori before they uselessly blew themselves up?"

gummyworms
September 16th, 2009, 09:38 PM
while you are asking that, i would like to ask why didnt the asgards help and deal with the lucian alliance and the ori issues before all this happened. The goauld and the replicators were gone, and those protected planets still needed protecting. If the entire Asgard race went to prevent the ORI super gate, their 4 initial ships and even the beach head situation a lot of the problems could have been avoided. And also why didnt they leave a couple more of those thors hammer everywhere.

hawkmajor
September 17th, 2009, 01:00 PM
while you are asking that, i would like to ask why didnt the asgards help and deal with the lucian alliance and the ori issues before all this happened. The goauld and the replicators were gone, and those protected planets still needed protecting. If the entire Asgard race went to prevent the ORI super gate, their 4 initial ships and even the beach head situation a lot of the problems could have been avoided. And also why didnt they leave a couple more of those thors hammer everywhere.
as far as i know, the PPT was founded to go againt the goa'uld :jack::sam::daniel::tealc:

gummyworms
September 18th, 2009, 12:06 PM
as far as i know, the PPT was founded to go againt the goa'uld :jack::sam::daniel::tealc:

But do you think that really matters. The asgards wanted to protect the people on those planets not to uphold some treaty. It's not like the people on those planets forced the asgards to protect and enter into the treaty. The treaty was made by the Asgards.

hawkmajor
September 18th, 2009, 12:54 PM
But do you think that really matters. The asgards wanted to protect the people on those planets not to uphold some treaty. It's not like the people on those planets forced the asgards to protect and enter into the treaty. The treaty was made by the Asgards.
you've got a good point there...
i never said they did!!

a6346
September 23rd, 2009, 03:25 PM
Personally I loved the APBW's when they first came out it was a sigh of relief when the first ORI toilet ship blew up. I thought they wouldn't have been able to do anything to the wraith as there ships were large and critical systems were spread out.

Personally I would have the beam weapons only disable/destroy the shields of the ship, meaning that the 304 would have to use it's other weapons to destroy the ships hull, therefore the Wraith would be immune and the ORI/Assurans could be fought off.

Also would have been cooler to see a ORI toilet listing over disabled then have 2 or 3 nukes impact it destroying it.

hawkmajor
September 24th, 2009, 10:23 AM
Personally I loved the APBW's when they first came out it was a sigh of relief when the first ORI toilet ship blew up. I thought they wouldn't have been able to do anything to the wraith as there ships were large and critical systems were spread out.

Personally I would have the beam weapons only disable/destroy the shields of the ship, meaning that the 304 would have to use it's other weapons to destroy the ships hull, therefore the Wraith would be immune and the ORI/Assurans could be fought off.

Also would have been cooler to see a ORI toilet listing over disabled then have 2 or 3 nukes impact it destroying it.
ori toilets?

a6346
September 26th, 2009, 08:55 AM
ori toilets?

Ori ships look like toilets, A lot of us call them that im surprised you havent heard of it before.

thekillman
September 26th, 2009, 09:00 AM
i dont. but i recognised it

hawkmajor
September 27th, 2009, 12:08 PM
Ori ships look like toilets, A lot of us call them that im surprised you havent heard of it before.
i havent been on the thread in a while