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GateWorld
April 27th, 2004, 10:07 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s4/409.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/graphics/409.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#666666">DISCUSS ...</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0066BF"><B>SCORCHED EARTH</B></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 409</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
SG-1 is caught in a conflict between two civilizations trying to colonize the same planet.

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Rhydderch Hael
May 21st, 2004, 09:03 PM
Completely cool resolution to the conflict in this episode. Two different races in the same dire situation are butting heads in a struggle for survival, and are at first perceived to be so different from each other that there appeared to be no other course than choosing one to survive against the other. That is, until it was realized that what appeared to be the cause of a great problem was actually the harbinger of the best solution.

USS Thunderchild
May 21st, 2004, 09:42 PM
I think this was my least favorite episode of season 4, even though I guess my avatar is from it. I found pretty boring to tell the truth, and not up to par with most Sg-1 episodes. I think there have been one to many "lets save the undeveloped people from aliens" plot lines. I did however like the dialogue on the alien ship.

Phil

Asgard-VA
May 22nd, 2004, 12:36 PM
I did like the resolution between the two races, but there was something about this episode that just didn't "feel" right to me. I'm really not sure what it was, but maybe it was the disagreement between Jack and Daniel. They've had their differences of opinion before, but this time I just thought their reactions to the situation were a bit too exteme.

I did like the special effects associated with the terra-forming. One thing that might have made it better was if there was a stampede of animals trying to escape from the fires. That might have provided a sense of imminent disaster and added to level of tension in the episode. As it was, I never really got the feeling that the villagers were in serious trouble.

Boomer359
June 1st, 2004, 08:34 AM
Had we ever seen the Ankarans before?

The name sounds familiar, but I can't seem to remember if they had been featured in a previous episode. The attachment SG-1 seems ot have to them makes it seem like they're old friends, butthey also kind of feel like an alien of the week...

Dramaqueen
June 1st, 2004, 09:47 AM
Had we ever seen the Ankarans before?

The name sounds familiar, but I can't seem to remember if they had been featured in a previous episode. The attachment SG-1 seems ot have to them makes it seem like they're old friends, butthey also kind of feel like an alien of the week...
They refered to them briefly at the very begining of 'Watergate'. SG-1 was talking about relocating them but I think they never really appeared on the show before.

Madeleine
June 1st, 2004, 11:07 PM
One thing that might have made it better was if there was a stampede of animals trying to escape from the fires. That might have provided a sense of imminent disaster and added to level of tension in the episode.

That's would have been great. I can picture it now.... I might imagine the stampede in anyway next time I rewatch.

Anubis
June 2nd, 2004, 01:10 AM
Cool episode, but they could have done with more people fleeing from the fires

SeaBee
June 26th, 2004, 02:31 AM
Cool episode, but they could have done with more people fleeing from the fires
This was exactly what I was going to post, before I read the thread. What are you, some kind of psychic? ;) :D

Selmak
July 10th, 2004, 08:16 PM
The only non-carbon lifeforms we have met so far.

Selmak
July 15th, 2004, 06:53 PM
Sulfur-based... stinky

Selmak
July 26th, 2004, 06:41 PM
The primitive human race they were relocating... were they in any other episode?

Wyrminarrd
August 18th, 2004, 06:23 AM
No, I think this was the first we ever saw of them or at least I never saw them before.

This show was IMO rather boring and predictable, you just knew they would find this kind of solution where everybody was happy and well off.

ibwolf
August 18th, 2004, 06:29 AM
This show was IMO rather boring and predictable, you just knew they would find this kind of solution where everybody was happy and well off.

Yeah, pretty predictable in that regard, still it had its moments. It was nice though to see (or at least hear about) an alien lifeform that was totally different from us if nothing else.

Wyrminarrd
August 18th, 2004, 06:34 AM
Yeah, pretty predictable in that regard, still it had its moments. It was nice though to see (or at least hear about) an alien lifeform that was totally different from us if nothing else.


True, but as always they press the reset button after the episode ends and we never hear or see from these aliens again. You´d think that with all the stuff they had that the SGC would be very interrested in getting to know them.

ibwolf
August 18th, 2004, 08:14 AM
True, but as always they press the reset button after the episode ends and we never hear or see from these aliens again. You´d think that with all the stuff they had that the SGC would be very interrested in getting to know them.

Communication would be next to impossible. SG1 was only able to interact with the Avatar that the ship created. Once the 'terra'forming machine passed over the gate humans wouldn't even be able to visit the world with out heavy duty environment suits. Also the terraforming and subsequent colonization may still be an ongoing process.

So you wouldn't exactly expect much interactions there :) Maybe in a few hundred years once the colonization is finished.

Wyrminarrd
August 18th, 2004, 08:16 AM
Considering the possible pay-off from making contanct with this advanced a species you´d think they´d try harder. And it´s not as if they´ve never gone to a hostile environment before.

Madeleine
August 18th, 2004, 10:12 PM
The original script had the Gadmeer being bombed to bits by Jack to save the Ankaarans, I think. The final scene was to be of Daniel in his office listening to a recording of the Gadmeer music and being miserable.

It's a great ep as it is, but the original ending would have been great too. If only there was an alternate ending option on the DVD :cool:

Anubis
August 19th, 2004, 12:19 AM
The original script had the Gadmeer being bombed to bits by Jack to save the Ankaarans, I think. The final scene was to be of Daniel in his office listening to a recording of the Gadmeer music and being miserable.

It's a great ep as it is, but the original ending would have been great too. If only there was an alternate ending option on the DVD :cool:



They don't seem to include deleted scenes for some reason or another. I think it would be really cool if they did, that's what the 'Extra Features' are for.

SmartFox
March 18th, 2005, 07:57 PM
Considering the possible pay-off from making contanct with this advanced a species you´d think they´d try harder. And it´s not as if they´ve never gone to a hostile environment before.


If the world was completly terraformed to suit a totally different enviorment where humans can't even come close to living in then i think that might not be possible.

valaCB
April 3rd, 2005, 01:08 PM
boring episode... :rolleyes:

fair_nymph
April 5th, 2005, 08:19 AM
This was a decent episode. Not bad, but not particularily good either.

It seemed rather random how they jumped in with the Ancarans. The name sounds familar to me but I can't think of how (maybe the Watergate reference someone mentioned but I thought we had seen MORE of them earlier). I would have liked to know where and how SG1 found them originally, how they found the new planet, etc. It was a beautiful planet, too -- made me sad to think of it becoming sulfurized!

One thing they didn't really bring up in the episode was the fact that the Gadmir were on the planet FIRST. The Ancarans had not yet arrived when the Gadmir started terraforming (or at least that was the impression I got). So yeah, it sucks for the Ancarans, but it's their and SG1's fault that a more complete scan of the planet wasn't performed, which would have detected the giant alien ship.

I think the whole idea of a sulfur based ecosystem is fascinating, but I have questions about it as a quasi-chemist. I doubt that it would be very stable. This might mean that organisms have short life spans and/or high metabolisms. It also doesn't completely make sense to have sulfur be the base element for life the way it is for carbon. It's not even in the same periodic column! They should have chosen silica instead. Or perhaps they should have gone for the tagline that it was sulfur that was replacing the role of oxygen, but that the aliens were still carbon based.

Regarding Jack etc, I was impressed by his conviction, regardless of whether or not he was morally 'right' in his determination to blow up the alien ship. He didn't back down, he ordered Sam to make the bomb (which she did, like a good little soldier...although not without some emotional difficulty, which Amanda portrayed very well) AND he would have blown up Daniel to save the hundreds (thousands?) of Ancarans. I really like that about Jack. He's very solid and he doesn't waver.

fair_nymph
April 9th, 2005, 09:08 AM
Hey, someone anonymously gave me some good rep for the above post. I'd love to know who so I can thank you. So if you read this, thanks! :)

Willow
April 18th, 2005, 01:36 PM
This is about the only episode where I find Daniel annoying.

Metarock Sam
April 23rd, 2005, 12:17 PM
I loved this episode. Even though you had that conflict it came clear to show not only that There was also a good slolution for the problem at the end but with the idea of the android was very good. I miss Lotan I want to see him again. and maybe the Gadmeer could reappear in the future in battles against the Orrii .

QuiGonJohn
May 22nd, 2005, 06:02 PM
This one was good, but as others have said, not great. One thing, why didn't they try to see if the Nox could help settle the Enkarans on some planet and provide some kind of shielding that would limit the radiation they were affected by.

TheObiJuan
May 22nd, 2005, 07:31 PM
For some reason it is one of my favorites.

Perriman33
August 14th, 2005, 05:58 AM
I liked the way they resolved this episode but it was a bit of a struggle getting there. It was almost like a moral story they were trying to get across--violence doesn't work--type rubbish!
Loved the alien ship though! :)

Stricken
September 8th, 2005, 04:25 AM
This seemed to take so long just to do one thing why? because Jack wanted to blow it up and Daniel wanted to save it!

walter_MacChevron
September 17th, 2005, 11:05 AM
Yeah, I loved the alien ship.......and hey not of the best episodes but they did have the stargate three: 1)going off-world the majority of the episode 2) team interaction with aliens/culture 3)after they get off-world, the team splits upo and does their own thing to solve what ever the problem at hand may be

Izzy
September 29th, 2005, 05:32 AM
I can see why some were less than impressed by this one but I rather liked it because, leaving aside the plot (!) at the heart of this episode is the difference between Jack and Daniel (at that time - Daniel's changed a little since then, not drastically, but a little).

So all my comments below refer to Jack and Daniel at the time of the episode and not as Daniel is now:

Jack is military and his first instinct (as Daniel points out in a later episode (Entity, if memory serves)) is to protect -Jack will react defensively and with suspicion and where necessary Jack will attack rather than risk being attacked. He will make hard decisions and will sacrifice the few to save the many.

Daniel is Jack's opposite. Daniel's first instinct is to communicate and is unwilling to resort to violence until every other option has been exhausted. This approach has often brought him into conflict with Jack but on this occaision by going back to the ship Daniel would be blown up if Jack decided to continue with his chosen course of action. Having weighed up his options and realising the number of people that would die if he did not blow up the ship, Jack decided to put his personal feelings aside, unaware that Daniel would find another solution.

I found the clash of personality types fascinating and enjoyed the fact that Stargate SG-1 didn't shy away from making either man unsympathetic at various times. RDA and MS are good enough actors to carry off that sort of challenge.

This is one of those eps that might be worth revisiting once you know you're not watching it for the proper plot - if you see what I mean. Concentrate on the boys reactions to the situation rather than the situation itself and you might find something to like. Honest!

Izzy

Jynjyr
January 1st, 2006, 03:57 PM
I was working on wallpapers and got this pic.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/Jynjyr/scorched-01.jpg

The flippin' ship has EYES!!!

Thor of The Asgard
January 17th, 2006, 12:16 AM
i dont think it was boring...i liked it very much...
the Gadmeer!!! so iteresting! what a race!!! i hope we will be able to see them somehow...even if SG-1 cant visit the planet because of the sulfur thing...sad story about them...so smart, good, strong....only to be destroyed...shame...

lol what weird music... i wonder what kind of ears they have...lol...

BnF95
March 9th, 2006, 04:50 AM
Saw the episode again on DVD, is it just me or was that Naquadah bomb that was supposed to destroy the Gadmeer vessel, just a wee bit ... small?

Unorthodox
March 25th, 2006, 07:10 AM
Saw the episode again on DVD, is it just me or was that Naquadah bomb that was supposed to destroy the Gadmeer vessel, just a wee bit ... small?
Yeah. If you notice, though, the blast doesn't induce a shockwave. Is it possible the ship beamed it just outside of the planets atmosphere?

captain jake
June 3rd, 2006, 12:00 AM
No I noticed this as well I believe the explosion just was far away creating the allusion of its...smallness.

2ndgenerationalteran
February 6th, 2007, 08:52 PM
wouldnt the explosion of the naquadah generator killed the enkarans because of the radiation being released?

garhkal
March 6th, 2007, 01:58 AM
I did like the resolution between the two races, but there was something about this episode that just didn't "feel" right to me. I'm really not sure what it was, but maybe it was the disagreement between Jack and Daniel. They've had their differences of opinion before, but this time I just thought their reactions to the situation were a bit too exteme..

To me that was also a little., strange... WE have seen jack whole heartedly trust his and others lives to daniel before, but it almost seemed as if he was unwilling to even hear daniel out.


Originally Posted by Wyrminarrd
This show was IMO rather boring and predictable, you just knew they would find this kind of solution where everybody was happy and well off.

While it may have been predictable, i loved how daniel got him to change his mind...


They don't seem to include deleted scenes for some reason or another. I think it would be really cool if they did, that's what the 'Extra Features' are for.

I wish they would do more deleted scenes, or possibily even alternate endings to some of the 'oneshots's..

Chaka's_Mum
May 9th, 2007, 10:53 PM
I was working on wallpapers and got this pic.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/Jynjyr/scorched-01.jpg

The flippin' ship has EYES!!!

Well, how else is it supposed to see where it's going?

Sorry. Give me a line and I'll rise to it every time...

I agree - it would be fascinating to meet the Gadmeer - of course we'd have to do it in Hazmat suits, which, I guess, means that they'd be fascinated to meet this race of two legged beings that appeared to be made of intelligent plastic and rubber with a head inside.

If nothing else, we could find out how their ears are constructed - just to find out if that music can be made tolerable.

First
June 28th, 2007, 07:23 PM
I thought this was a very interesting episode. Usually each character has an understandable point of view on most issues, but Jack seemed a little out of character, being too quick to try and destroy the Gadmeer without really considering other options. Daniel was the voice of reason, and found a win-win situation for everyone.
It brings up a bit of a moral issue. Do you have the right to destroy others because they are not compatible with your existence? As a general rule the answer would be yes, but in this context they are not necessarily your enemy and an alternative can be found to suit everyone.
It was a nice, feel good ending!

Chaka's_Mum
July 1st, 2007, 11:05 PM
I think there is a bit of a burden of guilt on Jack's part over the fact that the Enkarans are facing extinction on the planet we selected for them. Not to mention the fact that they can only save the population of one village if they do evacuate. Hardly conducive to the continuation of a species if the gene pool contracts that small.

Given that they have so little time, and even with that they can't save everyone, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that Jack's response is to go for the quickest, military solution. He doesn't feel he has the time to phutz about with negotiations - not when there are so many lives at stake.

On the other hand, Daniel was lucky that he could get through to Lotan. Not everyone is so accommodating. Had Lotan had less 'self-autonomous' artificial intelligence, then it may be that his programming would simply not have allowed him to deviate from his mission, no matter how many people would die as a result.

But, I agree, it's an interesting moral dilemma - and testament to what can be achieved if everyone at the negotiating table is prepared to compromise for the best (or, possibly, least worst) solution.

Ilana
August 26th, 2007, 09:45 AM
I know that it was just a tidy loose ends kind of thing, but I did like that Daniel made sure that Lotan had a place with the Encarens on their home world. That was rather wonderful of him....

garhkal
August 26th, 2007, 12:08 PM
IIC it was the blind leader of the village who made the offer for him to join them as a member of the 'village'... not daniel. But i do agree, it was a great way to tidy things up.

MechaThor
September 9th, 2007, 02:15 AM
Man the Encarens Suck! Where did they even come from? They were mentioned in an epsiode b4 that, but we never saw the story of where they were from! And why SG-1 care about them so much. Its not like they had much to offer!
Finally where they ment to be aliens? As in non Human aliens? Because they come from a homewolrd with no gate and have the radiation issues! If so they suck as Aliens. Worse that most Star Trek "aliens" Just because you make them were yellow contacts dose not m,ent they look like a non huiman lifeform. That makes aleast 5 (humans, ancients, naked mute guys with the plant and nox) to have evolved in this form.

However the other aliens in this epsiode the "gadmeed" or something like that. Nowb they where Excellent! A great big and impressive ship, They looked excellent as the fully CGI humanoid Geeko aliens. and they seemed very intresting, culturally. If i was SG-1 I would say:
"screw you Encarens, are goal is to seek out new technologies and powerful allies and we yoiu are not cutting it. However that ginat ship over there hints to a possible, mission complete! C ya yellow eyes"

Its strange that in one epiosde you can get both the rubbish SCI-FI Aliens (Encarens ) next to the super cool sci-fi aliens (Geeko dudes)

Shame we never got to see if the Geekos finnished the terroforming! I wonder if the Ori got to them? I also wonder what the "bad guys" the Geekos where fighting which made them run away!
But we may never know :(

garhkal
September 9th, 2007, 01:52 PM
I do agree it was strange we never heard of them before, and that we cared so much for them, to the point we were willing to try and destroy the Gademmer ship so quickly.

Cree
November 19th, 2007, 07:05 PM
Ok no else seems to have asked where sg-1 found this race of people, daniel states in the episode that they can't stay on a planet without the certain amount of ozone (maybe that was sam actually) withought going blind, now we see in this episode that only about 1 of them is blind and that most can see... so i ask you where were they all before the sgc relocated them before hand? i mean f they are supposidly so sensative and only really have 2 options where were they before the sgc's help and why didnt they stay there...

clearly the main answer would be that the gould were still enslaving them, but then why werent they on there "home" planet and wouldnt the "home" planet be the one over run with the goauld and actually have a stargate?

im confused on this matter!

garhkal
November 20th, 2007, 03:16 PM
It was one of the glossed over parts. They also said we 'relocated them to that planet', but no mention of when or why..

Fenrir Foxz
November 21st, 2007, 06:17 PM
It was one of the glossed over parts. They also said we 'relocated them to that planet', but no mention of when or why..

one way of adding the ilusion of depth to a story without going into details.... This is another episode that I find to be a drag, obviously nowhere near as bad as "one false step"...

it does have a good story to it though...

slade_x
November 28th, 2007, 10:41 AM
This episode is airing on sky one right now and i have got to say this plot does not make sense at all;

A ship was searching for a suitable planet to terraform for the re birth of an old civilisation. Through the episode we learn that another planet was found with enkarans on it and was not chosen because there was a civilisation there already.

Now at the start of this episode, the ship was purposely designed to scan lifesigns of a planet in order to create a replica lifeform for the occupants of the planet to interact with..

Why the hell was the ship programmed with the ability to scan the planet copy the dna of the inhabitants and re create one with the knowledge containted within the ships database for the purpose of interacting with life already on the planet. Since obiously that was never the intent of the spacecraft. fine it made a mistake there was life already on a planet. Lotan should never have existed even when the ship made a mistake of there being life on the planet.

All the spacecraft had to do was scan for lifesigns, if lifesigns were not present then begin terraforming.

This episode does not make sense, ill give it a 0/10. there never should have been a ship representative in the first place. This episode should have unfolded in such a way that carter and daniel learn about the purpose of the ship while on it and then a military contigent tasked with destroying it, to save the enkarans.

Lotan the representative was imagined out of nowhere.

Nikki
November 28th, 2007, 02:32 PM
This episode is airing on sky one right now and i have got to say this plot does not make sense at all;

A ship was searching for a suitable planet to terraform for the re birth of an old civilisation. Through the episode we learn that another planet was found with enkarans on it and was not chosen because there was a civilisation there already.

Now at the start of this episode, the ship was purposely designed to scan lifesigns of a planet in order to create a replica lifeform for the occupants of the planet to interact with..

Why the hell was the ship programmed with the ability to scan the planet copy the dna of the inhabitants and re create one with the knowledge containted within the ships database for the purpose of interacting with life already on the planet. Since obiously that was never the intent of the spacecraft. fine it made a mistake there was life already on a planet. Lotan should never have existed even when the ship made a mistake of there being life on the planet.

All the spacecraft had to do was scan for lifesigns, if lifesigns were not present then begin terraforming.

This episode does not make sense, ill give it a 0/10. there never should have been a ship representative in the first place. This episode should have unfolded in such a way that carter and daniel learn about the purpose of the ship while on it and then a military contigent tasked with destroying it, to save the enkarans.

Lotan the representative was imagined out of nowhere.

OK, re-watch the episode. It makes perfect sense. The ship scanned the planet and started terraforming because it was a suitable planet with no inhabitants.
LOTAN: When the transformation process was begun, there were no life forms present. The SGC must have scanned the planet before the ship had reached, scanned and started terraforming the planet. They would have found it suitable for the Enkarens and started moving them there. This would now be sometime into the terraformation process, which would have started on the other side of the planet.

As the ship neared the Enkaren camp, it picked up life signs and made a representative (Lotan) to avoid the Enkaren's destruction if possible. Now, due to how advanced this race was, it would be safe to assume that they would have prepared for such an event (one where life signs are picked up after terraformation has began, as it is not a certainty that no-one will visit/inhabit the planet once they've claimed it and started terraforming). So their Lotan would be our equivalent of a 'BEWARE OF DOG' sign...just a little more sophisticated. :cool:

Lotan was made in the image of the Enkarens so that he could relate to them better and give them fair warning about what was about to happen and therefore time to leave the planet. If they chose to ignore his warning, fair enough but he could not ignore his primary programming, which was to ensure the complete terraformation of a planet once it had began.

captain jake
July 1st, 2008, 07:03 AM
Did anybody else think that the solution they came up with was a little to obvious? I mean you would think that Daniel or Carter would realize that the ship had scanned different planets. Even if they didn't why wouldn't they have asked if he could temporarily stop the ship. I think Lotan would have happily stopped the ship temporarily and SG-1 could have taken all of the Enkarans to a different planet. I also couldn't help but notice how useless Teal'c was in this episode, he got a bunch of lines like "The Enkaran home world doesn't have a Stargate". This was an ok episode, but I don't want to see it again any time soon.

HelloVelo
July 16th, 2008, 06:26 PM
Robots, lizard aliens, and a giant spaceship that shoots fire. Surely something better could have been made with those ingredients.

Rating: 5/10

Full Review: http://stargatesummer.blogspot.com/2008/07/scorched-earth.html

Old Dood
September 4th, 2008, 02:29 AM
It was not a 'Bad Episode'.

What I do not understand is this....

If Lotan can 'Beam Up' just about anything then why not beam up the Stargate as well?

Put the Stargate on the Enkaran homeworld since it is going to be FRIED from the terraforming.
(Of course AFTER SG-1 goes back home first)

This way then Earth and the Enkaran homeworld will have communications still.
Since a war is raging through out the Galaxy at this point.

Butlersgate
February 28th, 2009, 10:58 AM
I think Lotan would have happily stopped the ship temporarily and SG-1 could have taken all of the Enkarans to a different planet.

they couldn't find another planet in a short amount of time because of the atmospheric properties the Enkarans needed to not go blind. so lotan would only of stopped for a certain amount of time and then carried on regardless of whether or not they found a new world.

i liked this episode i don't get why people don't like it so much, just because a big spaceship doesn't automatically become a SAVIOR OF THE MILKY WAY GALAXY and start blasting gou'ld ships to high hell. that is a bad reason not to like this episode imo.

balo
March 16th, 2009, 08:18 AM
It was a bit boring , not one of my favourite episodes. The alien ship was cool.

Rating 4 / 10

The Stig
April 30th, 2009, 10:23 PM
it was ok but...

Dinoman
June 4th, 2009, 07:21 PM
I suppose Lotan is just a projected image not really flesh and blood, isn't he?

Pic
October 22nd, 2009, 04:54 PM
This land is your land, this land is my land....

In typical fashion, the crisis was averted in 42 minutes to everyone's satisfaction. Everyone except, perhaps, the planet. Did anyone ask those poor spruce trees if they wanted to be converted to the whatchamacallit? *sniff*

I did hate the fact that you saw the solution WAY before anyone else did. I don't want to be THAT much smarter than the fictional television characters who are supposed to be entertaining me. ;)

Also, point of note: this is the 9th episode in which we have been subjected to the thing growing on Teal'c's chin. Cruel and unusual treatment, I say.

toxix
November 13th, 2009, 02:30 PM
I didn't like this episode so much either. The alien form choose this planet because it was the only one they could use AND no other intelligent life forms where detected. Plus, they started the terraforming process BEFORE the Ekarans' arrival. Therefore, they were the first ones to arrive and had every right to claim the property of that planet. Now when you think about it, that's typically the kind of argument O'neill would have used if the Enkarans had arrived first. And why was Daniel so smooth with O'neill? I mean he usually rides his horses for less than that. But in this episode, nothing: he hardly contradicts O'neill about his decision to destroy the alien's ship. And I'm not even talking about the complete silence of Carter on that matter: she just makes the bomb and disappear for the rest of the episode. obvious lack of balance in this episode.

The original version of the scenario in which the alien "robot" decides to blow up the alien's ship on his own was much darker and IMO much better: for once we'd have had something different that the usual happy ending which concludes a 40 minutes struggle in barely 30 secs.

Tachyon
December 7th, 2009, 02:47 AM
An alright episode for me. The story/concept is interesting and the episode is well written.

gateship15
December 7th, 2009, 10:51 AM
i agree. i kind of like this episode. the fact that two lots of aliens want this planet one to change it the other to keep it as it was. was interesting

mrscopterdoc
March 14th, 2010, 10:07 AM
The first time I watched this as with Watergate I hated the episode. After doing a rewatch, I like it much better. Still not one of my favorites.

ngewakl
May 6th, 2010, 07:51 PM
Didn't like this episode. SG1 should have never helped the Enkarans.

Girlbot
June 23rd, 2010, 08:00 AM
I loved this episode. It showed a wonderful compromise to a very difficult situation. Too bad the world can't take a lesson from it.

maneth
September 10th, 2010, 08:42 AM
Cool episode. I enjoyed the plot, and it was great to see Alessandro Juliani (Gaeta on Battlestar Galactica) again. Of course, the episode also shares a name with one of my favorite shows, Babylon 5. :p

Matt G
November 10th, 2011, 01:59 PM
Hang on...am I the first Rewatcher to get this far...I AM the first Rewatcher to get this far!

1. The Enkarans, hmmm...well SG1 knew them but we certainly didn't.

2. Having said that...I was with Jack on this, the ship may have been there first but the Gadmeer were freeze-dried.

3. Daniel you insane SOB...good thing your stunt worked.

4. "We are going home" - good way to end the ep!

Lieutenant Sparrow
November 11th, 2011, 01:41 AM
Enkarans have such cool eyes.

Not much else I can say about the episode as I didn't really enjoy it.

Nice ending though.

jelgate
November 11th, 2011, 06:09 AM
Hang on...am I the first Rewatcher to get this far...I AM the first Rewatcher to get this far!

1. The Enkarans, hmmm...well SG1 knew them but we certainly didn't.

2. Having said that...I was with Jack on this, the ship may have been there first but the Gadmeer were freeze-dried.

3. Daniel you insane SOB...good thing your stunt worked.

4. "We are going home" - good way to end the ep!

So that gives Jack the right to kill a whole species because they arrived second?

hedwig
November 11th, 2011, 06:43 AM
So that gives Jack the right to kill a whole species because they arrived second?

Alternatively, what gives the Gadmeer the right to kill the Enkarans just so they can have the planet to themselves?

I also agree with Jack.

jelgate
November 11th, 2011, 06:56 AM
Alternatively, what gives the Gadmeer the right to kill the Enkarans just so they can have the planet to themselves?

I also agree with Jack.
It was more a computer program than the Gadmer and of course the Gadmer don't have that right. I just have a problem Jack deciding its automaticlly siding with the Enkarians without even considering the other species

hedwig
November 11th, 2011, 08:46 AM
It was more a computer program than the Gadmer and of course the Gadmer don't have that right. I just have a problem Jack deciding its automaticlly siding with the Enkarians without even considering the other species

I can understand Jack's choice, given the fact he and SG1 had spent months relocating and getting to know the Enkarans, and along comes some "freeze dried" race threatening to wipe them out in order to get the planet to themselves. I'm pretty sure a lot of people would feel the same way as Jack. And even after finding out who the Gadmeer were and what their story was, I doubt he felt any different.

And, yes, Lotan was a computer program. But he was also speaking on behalf of the Gadmeer, and basically telling SG1 the Enkarans would have to leave or die. He was giving them no other choice. Jack at least asked Daniel to give him another choice than the one he wanted to make.

jelgate
November 11th, 2011, 09:24 AM
I can understand Jack's choice, given the fact he and SG1 had spent months relocating and getting to know the Enkarans, and along comes some "freeze dried" race threatening to wipe them out in order to get the planet to themselves. I'm pretty sure a lot of people would feel the same way as Jack. And even after finding out who the Gadmeer were and what their story was, I doubt he felt any different.

And, yes, Lotan was a computer program. But he was also speaking on behalf of the Gadmeer, and basically telling SG1 the Enkarans would have to leave or die. He was giving them no other choice. Jack at least asked Daniel to give him another choice than the one he wanted to make.

It was Lotan who threaten to wiped them out not the Gadmer. We can't blame them for Lotan's actions. Given how the Gadmer rejected the Enkarian homeworld they probably wouldn't have terraformed the planet if they knew of the Enkarian settlement. Personal bias to the Enkarians on Jack's part to me does not give him the right to base thier lives more important then the Gadmer.


That is because it was a no win. No matter what happened someone would die. It just seems wrong to just say one species has more right to live without considering the other side.

garhkal
November 11th, 2011, 01:20 PM
In a situation like that, i would have not just looked for a third option, but maybe try and take over the ship.

Krisz
November 11th, 2011, 02:02 PM
An episode I always say I don't want to bother to watch again, but when I do I always get involved in the story and the dilemma it poses.

How the story weaves around the "no win" situation with whether it's the Gadmeer or the Enkarans who have a right to life and that planet, and reaches a satisfying conclusion is what makes this a re-watchable episode.

I thought the interior of the Gadmeer spaceship was one of the simplest, but most interesting and effectively futuristic looking spaceship interiors in Stargate. Had much of the feel of visuals of space stations and the ship in '2001: A Space Odyssey'.

That piece of Gadmeer music reminded me of the music of the Futurist art movement of the 1920's! Don't think they cared whose ears it was good for!!! :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbbmPD7NuDY&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WtCCunp6Bw&feature=related

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
November 11th, 2011, 03:50 PM
I thought it was a filter episode.

There isn't that much to say about it. Except Gaeta's actor was in it, he'll be back (playing another character) in the finale to Season 8.

Stuff From the Commentary:

Hedrezar (the leader) was originaly a man. The contacts made the actress blind.
The pregnant woman is Michael Greenburg's wife.
A Visual Effects studio was used (Windmill), based in Ireland.

James noted how much it was pain to communicate with them because of the time difference, but at least he got to go to Ireland for a week.
They (James, Martin, & Jim) noted how having a new people working on the show, gave the show a few new ideas for the episode.

RDA wasn't comfortable with the scene where they first bring up the bomb.
During the scene where Daniel and Lotan are in the forest, a bear appeared, Chris Judge was the only one who freaked out.
The line "The Enkaran home world has no Stargate." is still used (at least as of Season 5) when Chris has no lines.


Monday, SG-1 loses their memories and are used for forced labor.

bookwormjules
November 11th, 2011, 05:26 PM
I thought it was a filter episode. I agree it is a filler episode, but it is a fairly good one - it's another one where the characters are faced with the moral thing to do. Jack's character surprised me in this one - bombing a ship, just didn't feel right to me, but it was one of those catch-22 moments, until Daniel swooped in. I enjoyed the episode overall.

Do we ever hear about the Gadmeer aliens again?

hedwig
November 11th, 2011, 06:07 PM
I agree it is a filler episode, but it is a fairly good one - it's another one where the characters are faced with the moral thing to do. Jack's character surprised me in this one - bombing a ship, just didn't feel right to me, but it was one of those catch-22 moments, until Daniel swooped in. I enjoyed the episode overall.

Do we ever hear about the Gadmeer aliens again?

As with other individuals and races, we never hear of these again.

hlndncr
November 11th, 2011, 06:44 PM
Personally, I get so tired of the "we don't here of this person, race, world again" complaint.

If SG-1 revisited everyone and every place fans think they should have we would have stopped exploring by the end of season three because every episode would be another follow-up visit.

I think it's great that there are "loose ends" so to speak. It not only gives scope to the imagination it also adds realism to the notion that there are dozens of teams going on hundreds of missions through the stargate day in and day out. While SG-1 takes the frontline, first contact role.

Jae'a
November 14th, 2011, 06:43 AM
My LiveJournal post (http://jo-r-lee.livejournal.com/20241.html)

GrendelsMom
November 15th, 2011, 10:01 AM
Just rewatched this one - I liked it better this time around. I did however think the Gadmeer alien looked an awful lot like the Pokemon Mew II

Dave2
November 15th, 2011, 03:27 PM
The underlying ethical conflicts and their resolution made this an excellent episode as far as I am concerned. Just too bad we don't hear again from the Enkarens and Lotan again. Apparently a stargate isn't necessary because Lotan's ship travels very fast! And I wonder how fast that would be.
Nice how most episodes show the scenery of British Columbia as the backdrop for so many alien planets.......

Matt G
November 16th, 2011, 02:39 AM
So that gives Jack the right to kill a whole species because they arrived second?

There is no morally perfect solution in these sorts of situations so I prefer to fall back on pragmatism. The Enkarans were up and about and would have been wiped out themselves had the ship been allowed to just keep going. Daniel's stunt was an insane gamble that I never thought would work till it actually did. Jack couldn't afford to sit on the fence. If Daniel's stunt hadn't worked 'a' race would have been wiped out. End of.

jelgate
November 16th, 2011, 08:02 AM
There is no morally perfect solution in these sorts of situations so I prefer to fall back on pragmatism. The Enkarans were up and about and would have been wiped out themselves had the ship been allowed to just keep going. Daniel's stunt was an insane gamble that I never thought would work till it actually did. Jack couldn't afford to sit on the fence. If Daniel's stunt hadn't worked 'a' race would have been wiped out. End of.

And doing what Jack did if successful would have killed the Gadmer. I acknowledge that under the intial circumstances it was a no win in that one species would. I just take issue of how Jack automatically sides with the Enkarians without considering the Gadmer. They have a right to live too.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
November 16th, 2011, 08:32 AM
I just take issue of how Jack automatically sides with the Enkarians without considering the Gadmer.

It isn't that unexpected that he would; we generally side with that which we know and is familiar over that which is not.

Seaboe

Dave2
November 16th, 2011, 12:44 PM
Is there any possibility of building a stargate from scratch for the purposes of giving one to people like the nice Enkarens??

fems
November 16th, 2011, 01:04 PM
Is there any possibility of building a stargate from scratch for the purposes of giving one to people like the nice Enkarens??

Not for Earth. We've seen the Tollans build their own gate, but it's way above our heads. They could take one from another planet though, preferably with a DHD otherwise you'll need a dialing computer and enough power.

jelgate
November 16th, 2011, 02:55 PM
It isn't that unexpected that he would; we generally side with that which we know and is familiar over that which is not.

Seaboe
Maybe not. But I still find it wrong to not even consider the other side. Its not even out of character for Jack. I just do not like what he did

mathpiglet
November 16th, 2011, 03:37 PM
This story fascinated me because we have three different levels of cultural development. One one side we have the largely agrarian Enkarans and on the very opposite side we have the very alien looking, very highly developed Gadmer.

In the middle we have the Earth folk. I like that the Gadmer are not big meanies which would make it easy to hate them and root for the simpler, likeable, look-like-us Enkarans.

A great dilemma with the usual cast behaving perfectly in character.

Matt G
November 17th, 2011, 02:58 AM
And doing what Jack did if successful would have killed the Gadmer. I acknowledge that under the intial circumstances it was a no win in that one species would. I just take issue of how Jack automatically sides with the Enkarians without considering the Gadmer. They have a right to live too.

The Gadmeer were effectively on life support. Now I'm as anti-euthasia as you can get but I wouldn't expect a fully-functioning individual to give up their life in favour of someone on life support. Jack saw the Enkarans as friends and he was respecting his friends' wishes "make sure we're able to stay on this planet for we have nowhere else to go".

Brother Freyr
November 18th, 2011, 09:11 PM
Personally, I get so tired of the "we don't here of this person, race, world again" complaint.

If SG-1 revisited everyone and every place fans think they should have we would have stopped exploring by the end of season three because every episode would be another follow-up visit.
It doesn't require entire episodes to follow up on past worlds:



It can be as simple as a couple of lines of dialoge: "Isn't this a cool new medical device the Orbanians designed? Yeah, the exchange program is working well."

It can be a ten-second clip of another world's ambassador ending a conversation and leaving the briefing room, before the current story's briefing gets underway.



For this episode, Scorched Earth, I would have enjoyed a few lines of dialogue about the possibility of future relations with the Ganmere:



Daniel: We'd like to get to know the Ganmere after they're re-established.
Lotan: The Ganmere will contact you in time. They'll be grateful that you found a way for their world to be re-born without destroying another people.
Daniel: How long will the terra-forming take?
Lotan: Many, many years.


Ah, so now I know not to expect any follow-up, and there's a good reason as well.

jelgate
November 18th, 2011, 10:58 PM
The Gadmeer were effectively on life support. Now I'm as anti-euthasia as you can get but I wouldn't expect a fully-functioning individual to give up their life in favour of someone on life support. Jack saw the Enkarans as friends and he was respecting his friends' wishes "make sure we're able to stay on this planet for we have nowhere else to go".
That example doesn't work because life support or euthanisa implies thier is no hope for their species which just seems inaccurate given this scenario and reason for terraforming said planet. A process mind that started before the Enkarian arrived on the planet with SG1. As for Jack its dangerous to let your emotions cloud reason when it comes to making moral choices. That just leads to bias.

jelgate
November 18th, 2011, 11:02 PM
Given my arguing with people the past week about how Jack's decision you would think I did not like this episode Nothing could be farther from the truth. The fact that it presents such a moral arguement from me and is presented so well as Daniel and Jack disagree about what is right is why I love this episode so much. Its a no win situation and while I am disturbed about how easily Jack sides with the Enkarians without considering the Gadmer's point of view it is still an interesting dilema to wage out in the first place as no one is really the villian. Both species just want to live. The one compliant how we get a nice and easy solution of the Gadmer knowing the original home world of the Enkarians. But maybe I just watch too much dark TV

Matt G
November 19th, 2011, 02:30 AM
That example doesn't work because life support or euthanisa implies thier is no hope for their species which just seems inaccurate given this scenario and reason for terraforming said planet. A process mind that started before the Enkarian arrived on the planet with SG1. As for Jack its dangerous to let your emotions cloud reason when it comes to making moral choices. That just leads to bias.

Maybe it does and it's something I've learned to try and avoid when talking about this stuff but I also know that when the arguments come close to home, you are more likely to get emotional(humans have emotions - deal with it!). As I said in my last post, Jack saw the Enkarans as friends, therefore I can live with his emotions coming into play and once again, the Gadmeer were in suspended animation and while they may have been technologically advanced...so were the Eurondans! There were too many things about the Gadmeer that we didn't know or only had Lotan's word for.

SG1 got lucky in that Daniel was able to fix up a solution that worked for both races but I could have lived with the Gadmeer getting toasted.

jelgate
November 19th, 2011, 06:29 AM
That is not really the issue. I have the problem with letting those emotions cloud his judgement and not even consider the Gadmer. Because the Enkarians were he friends he automatically decidied their life had priority. That is wrong on all levels.

Matt G
November 26th, 2011, 08:34 AM
I'd have made the same decision. I wouldn't have been able to live with myself had I done nothing while my friends' lives were being threatened.

jelgate
November 26th, 2011, 10:42 AM
That is not the point. Ultimately a decision had to be made as both societies couldn't live. I have issues with the ease of chosing the Enkarians without even considering the Gadmer. They have a right to live

dtheories
November 27th, 2011, 12:35 PM
Jack faced with another tough decision. Goes from being the lead hero that has a baby to be named after him, to having to draw upon limited and explosive resources to save members of a race he's feeling personally responsible for. His passion - manifested especially in anger toward Daniel (Tell me, TELL ME, you are NOT on that ship? No wonder Daniel was backing away from him when he and Lotan materialized in the village. Cute! Not as cute as Daniel is in this ep...but I digress!) - Jack's passion is shown as a significant part of his character.

Was this the first reactor turned into a bomb? I think there are naquadah enhanced bombs affixed to the X301 in Tangent, but I can't recall whether there were bombs made out of the stuff prior to this ep.

The storage facility on the Gadmere ship was strangely reminicent of Euronda, and its similar issues. Here, though, the Gadmere species purposely appear quite violent, yet are described as peaceful. Excellent juxtapositioning by the writers!

I think what I read into the look Jack gives Daniel at the end epitomizes the ep: Wanna kill him, while simultaneously so amazed by him.

Part of what makes the show so great.

Matt G
November 27th, 2011, 03:09 PM
That is not the point. Ultimately a decision had to be made as both societies couldn't live. I have issues with the ease of chosing the Enkarians without even considering the Gadmer. They have a right to live

In theory yes but this is an example of SG1's reality being imperfect. Jack was effectively faced with the question "which race do I save?" Given that he felt honour-bound to protect the Enkarens...

Seaboe Muffinchucker
November 27th, 2011, 06:11 PM
Was this the first reactor turned into a bomb? I think there are naquadah enhanced bombs affixed to the X301 in Tangent

No, plain "slammer missiles" were attached to the X301.

Nevermind.

Seaboe

jelgate
November 28th, 2011, 03:41 PM
In theory yes but this is an example of SG1's reality being imperfect. Jack was effectively faced with the question "which race do I save?" Given that he felt honour-bound to protect the Enkarens...
That still completely ignores he gave 0 consideration to other race.

Matt G
November 29th, 2011, 03:05 AM
He gave 0 consideration to the Gadmeer because the only thing on his mind was saving the Enkarens.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
November 29th, 2011, 05:00 AM
He gave 0 consideration to the Gadmeer because the only thing on his mind was saving the Enkarens.

Matt, are you really arguing over Jelgate's right to object to the fact that Jack failed to consider the Gadmeer? Because that's what he's been saying all along. He understands why Jack made the decision he did. He just doesn't like that the writers failed to have Jack even consider the Gadmeer.

Seaboe

jelgate
November 29th, 2011, 05:43 AM
He gave 0 consideration to the Gadmeer because the only thing on his mind was saving the Enkarens.

And that is just wrong on so many ethical levels. To automatically choose one species without considering the life of the other

fems
November 29th, 2011, 05:49 AM
But you could argue that for all intents and purposes the Gadmeer were already dead/extinct. You have one race, the Enkarans that they know vs an automated ship with biological samples. A biological sample is not an entity in itself and therefore it makes sense to side with the actual people who are still alive.

Just now I realized that the Gadmeer are kind of similar to

the Asgard once they've blown themselves up and handed their knowledge over to the SGC in the end. We saw Sam working with the 'Asgard' as a hologram which makes me wonder if the core includes all the Asgard's consciousnesses and if it would be possible, in the future, to give them new bodies.

Matt G
November 29th, 2011, 10:58 AM
And that is just wrong on so many ethical levels. To automatically choose one species without considering the life of the other

Frack this, let's just agree to disagree.

jelgate
November 29th, 2011, 11:51 AM
But you could argue that for all intents and purposes the Gadmeer were already dead/extinct. You have one race, the Enkarans that they know vs an automated ship with biological samples. A biological sample is not an entity in itself and therefore it makes sense to side with the actual people who are still alive.

Just now I realized that the Gadmeer are kind of similar to

the Asgard once they've blown themselves up and handed their knowledge over to the SGC in the end. We saw Sam working with the 'Asgard' as a hologram which makes me wonder if the core includes all the Asgard's consciousnesses and if it would be possible, in the future, to give them new bodies.

Thats just unfair bias. Just because their status of living is different then what we consider normal, we shouldn't automatically stay their lives is less important.

fems
November 29th, 2011, 12:28 PM
Thats just unfair bias. Just because their status of living is different then what we consider normal, we shouldn't automatically stay their lives is less important.

But at that point they basically weren't alive, therefore they wouldn't have lives...

Lunaeclipse
November 29th, 2011, 01:45 PM
Thats just unfair bias. Just because their status of living is different then what we consider normal, we shouldn't automatically stay their lives is less important.

Didn't Daniel say something like that once?

hedwig
November 29th, 2011, 01:55 PM
Thats just unfair bias. Just because their status of living is different then what we consider normal, we shouldn't automatically stay their lives is less important.

Would you be willing to give up your home and life for a society that is stored in tissue samples so that those tissue samples could be regenerated while you had to die so they could live?

jelgate
November 29th, 2011, 05:06 PM
But at that point they basically weren't alive, therefore they wouldn't have lives...
They were alive. They were basically in a form of statsis/storage. That is still alive.

Didn't Daniel say something like that once?
Probably since we are sharing simliar viewpoints in this scenario

Would you be willing to give up your home and life for a society that is stored in tissue samples so that those tissue samples could be regenerated while you had to die so they could live?
It would never be more choice to make because obviously I want to live. Just like the other species has the desire to live. Its wrong because they are different to write off their desire to live

hedwig
November 29th, 2011, 05:31 PM
I thought the Gadmeer had been reduced to tissue samples and were embedded in those plastic/crystals in the drawers, which also included plant and animal tissue samples. They were in storage, so to speak (for who knows how long and could have stayed that way for another long while), and regardless of what Lotan said, it was possible (even if minimally so) that another planet could be found for them that would have been suitable for them to live on. There are always other possibilities, even if we or SG1 weren't informed of them in this episode.

And since the Gadmeer were supposedly a peaceful race, I doubt very much they would have willingly killed off another civilization in order for themselves to be regenerated. After all, that is exactly the kind of destruction they were running from at the hands of some enemy of theirs. I don't think Lotan's instructions included a specific order that he demand the surrender of a planet or all on it would die. That doesn't sound peaceful to me.


Its wrong because they are different to write off their desire to live

That's not what Jack was doing.

jelgate
November 30th, 2011, 12:44 PM
I thought the Gadmeer had been reduced to tissue samples and were embedded in those plastic/crystals in the drawers, which also included plant and animal tissue samples. They were in storage, so to speak (for who knows how long and could have stayed that way for another long while), and regardless of what Lotan said, it was possible (even if minimally so) that another planet could be found for them that would have been suitable for them to live on. There are always other possibilities, even if we or SG1 weren't informed of them in this episode.No. Lothan said the ship could only terraform one planet and had started the process before the Enkarians had been implanted on the planet by SG1.


And since the Gadmeer were supposedly a peaceful race, I doubt very much they would have willingly killed off another civilization in order for themselves to be regenerated. After all, that is exactly the kind of destruction they were running from at the hands of some enemy of theirs. I don't think Lotan's instructions included a specific order that he demand the surrender of a planet or all on it would die. That doesn't sound peaceful to me.

Probably not but at the same time I don't think they would want to become extinct themselves

fems
November 30th, 2011, 01:04 PM
They were alive. They were basically in a form of statsis/storage. That is still alive.


Paah, you do realize that the preserved biological samples are probably mere skin cells, right? I can understand people's reasoning against medical testing on, say, human embryos because according to them human life starts at conception but now you're basically saying every biological sample (hair, skin cells, blood, urine etc) equals life.

hedwig
November 30th, 2011, 02:11 PM
No. Lothan said the ship could only terraform one planet and had started the process before the Enkarians had been implanted on the planet by SG1.

Probably not but at the same time I don't think they would want to become extinct themselves

The point is that they were in stasis, and even if it were true that the ship could terraform only one planet, it doesn't mean the ship could not have gone looking about the galaxy for another planet that would suit their needs. After all, they bypassed the Enkarans homeworld because of one little bitty (or maybe a little bigger than "bitty") flaw. Given the number of worlds throughout the galaxy, it's hard to believe another one could not be found for them.

After all, they were in stasis or nothing more than tissue samples. For them, no time would have passed between becoming tissue samples and being regenerated somewhere else. This one planet was not the end of the line for the Gadmeer, no matter what Lotan said. We don't know that he was interpreting his directives accurately. There was no actual rush for them to be regenerated. The ship was not in danger of being destroyed if it went off searching again.

hlndncr
November 30th, 2011, 02:31 PM
The point is that they were in stasis, and even if it were true that the ship could terraform only one planet, it doesn't mean the ship could not have gone looking about the galaxy for another planet that would suit their needs. After all, they bypassed the Enkarans homeworld because of one little bitty (or maybe a little bigger than "bitty") flaw. Given the number of worlds throughout the galaxy, it's hard to believe another one could not be found for them.

After all, they were in stasis or nothing more than tissue samples. For them, no time would have passed between becoming tissue samples and being regenerated somewhere else. This one planet was not the end of the line for the Gadmeer, no matter what Lotan said. We don't know that he was interpreting his directives accurately. There was no actual rush for them to be regenerated. The ship was not in danger of being destroyed if it went off searching again.

I think the problem was not that the ship couldn't have searched longer but that the process of transforming the planet had already begun before the Enkarans arrived, just so far from the gate that the ship was not noticed. Remember Lotan stated that there were no sentient inhabitants when the planet was scanned and when the ship discovered them it was too late to stop the process because the ship only had enough material for one planet once the process had begun.

However, it does appear that the process could be halted for a time and then resumed again later as the ship took the Enkarans back to their homeworld before completing the planetary transformation. Therefore, the obvious solution would have been for Lotan to halt the process while they negotiated a settlement and/or searched for another world for the Enkarans. The error was for Lotan not to offer this information (that the process could be halted for a time and resumed later) or for us (ie Daniel) not to ask that question initially. As a result, the ticking clock that caused all the contension (stop the ship before it destroyed the gate) was unnecessarily self-imposed by the poor communication, which arguably was exaserbated by Jack's hasty favoritism, Lotan's intransigence and Daniel's petulance.

fems
November 30th, 2011, 03:01 PM
I think the problem was not that the ship couldn't have searched longer but that the process of transforming the planet had already begun before the Enkarans arrived, just so far from the gate that the ship was not noticed. Remember Lotan stated that there were no sentient inhabitants when the planet was scanned and when the ship discovered them it was too late to stop the process because the ship only had enough material for one planet once the process had begun.

However, it does appear that the process could be halted for a time and then resumed again later as the ship took the Enkarans back to their homeworld before completing the planetary transformation. Therefore, the obvious solution would have been for Lotan to halt the process while they negotiated a settlement and/or searched for another world for the Enkarans. The error was for Lotan not to offer this information (that the process could be halted for a time and resumed later) or for us (ie Daniel) not to ask that question initially. As a result, the ticking clock that caused all the contension (stop the ship before it destroyed the gate) was unnecessarily self-imposed by the poor communication, which arguably was exaserbated by Jack's hasty favoritism, Lotan's intransigence and Daniel's petulance.

But... if they had asked the question the episode wouldn't have had the same effect! :P

Dimes
December 28th, 2011, 03:28 PM
Alright episode...

skim172
February 9th, 2012, 08:17 AM
I'm kinda in Col. O'Neill's camp in this episode. While I sympathize with the Gadmeer and their wish to rebirth their race, they're already dead. Unless I got it wrong, all that was on board the ship was skin samples. It's not a hibernation ship - it's a seed ship. It terraforms the planet and seeds it with flora and fauna to make it resemble the original. If I die, but my DNA samples are frozen in some lab, I can't argue that because the DNA samples can be used to generate other humans that I must still be alive. Or if my organs are donated, that I'm still alive and occupying the chest cavity of some other guy.

It's not ideal, and obviously the solution that they came up with is much more preferable to all parties involved. But if it truly is nothing more than a seed ship, then I'd have to argue that the Gadmeer are already dead and gone. And the Enkarans are very much alive. Destroying the Gadmeer ship would not kill them again.

Gate_Builder
February 18th, 2012, 07:54 AM
This is one of those philosophical episodes where they have to decide on an ethical issue. But they did come up with a good alternative. As for the Gadmeer, I have to disagree that they are already dead and gone since they still have in place a system to continue their species. It's kind of like smallpox. Supposed to be completely irradicated around the world, but... the CDC (and other countries I'm sure) still have some frozen in special freezers for research. So it's not really gone, just in a kind of storage, like the Gadmeer. :D

pepsiadikt
October 18th, 2012, 07:42 PM
I know this is an older thread but I just watched this episode and what really bugs me, is why didn't SG1 just gate home first, then the Enkarens could have just taken THAT gate with them?? It was going to get destroyed anyway? lol Nobody else has asked this yet. Didn't make sense to me.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
October 19th, 2012, 06:24 AM
Why would they take it? Given their sensitivity to UV, gate travel is dangerous for them. Having a stargate would just mean it would be easier for the goa'uld and other enemies to reach them.

Seaboe

Cluas
January 22nd, 2013, 12:30 AM
I didn't enjoy this episode as much as the others in season 4. I don't know why - It was not the actors fault, they did great.
Maybe it feels wrong because it didn't seem plausible, the way the writers let would let Jack blow up an entire civilisation (in stasis), without considering other solutions. And at the same time Lotan could have just put the terraforming on hold, but that would have ruined the plot i guess.

I see it has been discussed in depth, so I will leave it at that. And just say that overall season 4 had a few episodes not really living up to the standard - I guess it is only logical, that after 4 seasons, the writers were running out of luck, and made more mistakes?

Seaboe Muffinchucker
January 22nd, 2013, 06:36 AM
IMO, there are fewer episodes that miss in season four than in any of the other nine seasons, but YMMV.

Seaboe

garhkal
January 27th, 2013, 01:22 PM
I didn't enjoy this episode as much as the others in season 4. I don't know why - It was not the actors fault, they did great.
Maybe it feels wrong because it didn't seem plausible, the way the writers let would let Jack blow up an entire civilisation (in stasis), without considering other solutions. And at the same time Lotan could have just put the terraforming on hold, but that would have ruined the plot i guess.

I see it has been discussed in depth, so I will leave it at that. And just say that overall season 4 had a few episodes not really living up to the standard - I guess it is only logical, that after 4 seasons, the writers were running out of luck, and made more mistakes?

Perhaps the programming to put the terraforming on hold if modified would have not allowed for a restart?

Cluas
January 27th, 2013, 09:43 PM
Perhaps the programming to put the terraforming on hold if modified would have not allowed for a restart?

Perhaps - I thought about it, and realized you are probably right - Thanks :jack:

Major Clanger
May 20th, 2013, 10:24 AM
Ah how I love this ep, seriously good stuff.
I love how Jack does that making a decision very quickly thing and how Daniel does his trying to find a solution thing.
And in the end how the Enkarans took Lotar to be one of them, was very sweet.

But this is exactly the kind of thing that Stargate does so well, takes a problem and gives it a new, Stargatey spin.

jelgate
May 20th, 2013, 10:41 AM
It always creeped me out Clanger how Jack automatically decides the Enkarians lives are more important than the Gadmer. It just seems wrong to me.

Major Clanger
May 30th, 2013, 02:44 AM
it's one everyone can understand I think. He knows the Enkarans personally, but the Gadmeer are a load of freeze dried aliens.

jelgate
May 30th, 2013, 11:50 AM
I understand why Jack did it. It just seemed ethically wrong

Major Clanger
May 30th, 2013, 12:22 PM
that was kind of the point of the ep :D

jelgate
May 30th, 2013, 12:55 PM
The point I always though was a no win. Someone has to die. And I found it troubling that the leader never considered the Gadmer

fems
May 30th, 2013, 01:33 PM
The point I always though was a no win. Someone has to die. And I found it troubling that the leader never considered the Gadmer

But they were more or less dead, whereas the Enkarans were very much alive. Not to mention how selfish the Gadmeer were; not only did they put themselves in stasis (after being overpowered by some other race) to conquer someone else's planet, but they also had their ship programmed to destroy all living organisms on said planet to accommodate for their own needs (which they didn't even really have, since they were in stasis and had to be revived in order to live).

Major Clanger
May 31st, 2013, 12:58 PM
but only plant organisms - they were very careful to pick an unoccupied planet.

Plus once they found out about the Enkarans they not only found a suitable planet for them, they took them home before continuing to terraform the planet. I thought they were pretty cool.

jelgate
May 31st, 2013, 02:02 PM
It was my understanding the Gadmer would not kill sentient life. Given how they rejected other planets that had a sentient species. I have heard the arguement of the Gadmer being basically dead and it seems like a self-centered stance of our version of life is more important than yours

Falcon Horus
June 15th, 2013, 04:39 AM
So, the Gatmeer build an arc, loaded up their knowledge and found a new planet. Too bad, it also happens to be the planet Command chose to relocate the Enkarans to.

I forgot how it ended. I though the Gatmeer ship was going to be destroyed. But it didn't, better ending where the Gatmeer help the Enkarans, and still get to keep their planet for terraforming.

Interesting team interactions though - O'Neill ordering Carter to create the bomb. Obviously something Carter isn't too happy about. Daniel getting in his way, over and over again. :p

Baron Of Hell
June 24th, 2013, 09:50 AM
I thought Jack was morally wrong in the episode. Also by blowing up the ship it seems like he would be disobeying a direct order and the result would have ended a race.

I liked the episode but there seemed to be a hundred solutions to the problem. The one they came up with was the first one I thought of. They never asked if the ship could just put the process on hold until a new planet was found. They never asked if a part of the planet could be left alone. They never asked if domed cities could be created to live in. They never asked if the people could live on the ship. They never asked if their physical makeup could be changed to survive on more planets.

garhkal
July 3rd, 2013, 01:18 PM
I think the question of "could it be put on hold" was answered in the ep...

ajay
April 12th, 2014, 02:52 PM
A very interesting episode.

It bothers me that once again, Jack is all too ready to destroy a race in stasis (as he did in The Other Side).

I love George Hammond, but he kind of wimped out in this one, basically telling Jack to come up with his own solution.

A comment was made, to which I whole heartedly agree, that ultimately this episode is about breakdowns in communications, how commonly they occur and how tragic can be the consequences. The whole thing could have been avoided if the SGC investigated the planet more thoroughly before transplanting the Enkarans; if Lothan had mentioned the terraforming process could be suspended to allow negotiations; if anyone in SG1 had asked if the process could be suspended; and so on and so on. I know, the episode would have been dull if any of those things had actually occurred. But it's a reminder nonetheless how much power these SG teams hold when making life or death decision for entire species.

fems
April 13th, 2014, 04:08 AM
A very interesting episode.

It bothers me that once again, Jack is all too ready to destroy a race in stasis (as he did in The Other Side).

I love George Hammond, but he kind of wimped out in this one, basically telling Jack to come up with his own solution.

A comment was made, to which I whole heartedly agree, that ultimately this episode is about breakdowns in communications, how commonly they occur and how tragic can be the consequences. The whole thing could have been avoided if the SGC investigated the planet more thoroughly before transplanting the Enkarans; if Lothan had mentioned the terraforming process could be suspended to allow negotiations; if anyone in SG1 had asked if the process could be suspended; and so on and so on. I know, the episode would have been dull if any of those things had actually occurred. But it's a reminder nonetheless how much power these SG teams hold when making life or death decision for entire species.

Oh come on, it was a ship full of biological samples, not actual people (or whatever kind of creatures the Gadmeer were) in stasis! In this episode it was like a race of people vs. DNA samples from dinosaurs.

ajay
April 13th, 2014, 04:44 AM
Oh come on, it was a ship full of biological samples, not actual people (or whatever kind of creatures the Gadmeer were) in stasis! In this episode it was like a race of people vs. DNA samples from dinosaurs.

Which doesn't mean they should be automatically destroyed.

The point I'm making is that there was a better solution all along, but because of miscommunication and Jack's tendency to shoot first and ask questions later, they almost wiped out an entire race (either the Gadmeer if the bomb worked, or the Enkarans if it didn't).

jelgate
April 13th, 2014, 05:35 AM
Which doesn't mean they should be automatically destroyed.

The point I'm making is that there was a better solution all along, but because of miscommunication and Jack's tendency to shoot first and ask questions later, they almost wiped out an entire race (either the Gadmeer if the bomb worked, or the Enkarans if it didn't).
I made a similar argument before. It seemed ethically wrong for Jack to automatically side with the Enkarians without even considering the Gadmer's right to live

garhkal
April 15th, 2014, 02:15 PM
Which doesn't mean they should be automatically destroyed.

The point I'm making is that there was a better solution all along, but because of miscommunication and Jack's tendency to shoot first and ask questions later, they almost wiped out an entire race (either the Gadmeer if the bomb worked, or the Enkarans if it didn't).

But it does fit in with out way of consistently putting our foot in our mouth before engaging our brain..


I made a similar argument before. It seemed ethically wrong for Jack to automatically side with the Enkarians without even considering the Gadmer's right to live

Well when you look at Earth history, it is rife with us siding with 'humans over' anything we consider not human.. So why not there?

jelgate
April 15th, 2014, 02:45 PM
Us siding with our own kind is not ethically right. Just because we have done it before doesn't make it justifiable.

P-90_177
April 15th, 2014, 04:07 PM
But that's who O'Neill is. He is the kind of person who sees things in black and white and over a people he has got to know and likes, versus one doesn't he will always choose the former. You see it throughout the series. He even is quite willing to let an even civilization perish if he feels they are not worth saving (Red Sky).
This is the character quality which I most miss in later seasons of SG-1. Part because it puts him at odds with the rest of the team, which I like, but also because it's more believable. He's a life long soldier, and if he sees a threat he will want to eliminate it, particularly if it is against his team or others he is attached to.

Anja
September 15th, 2015, 02:04 AM
O'Neill very military and Daniel is the good one - again.
Nice people on that planet and a very sympathetic artificial life form with self-awareness.

maneth
November 15th, 2016, 08:22 AM
I really enjoyed the conclusion to this one.

garhkal
November 15th, 2016, 11:50 AM
Us siding with our own kind is not ethically right. Just because we have done it before doesn't make it justifiable.

No it doesn't justify it, but it does show how most scifi shows seem to treat humans vs anything non-human..

Anja
November 23rd, 2016, 01:31 AM
If they had sacrificed the humans it wouldn't have been right either.

jelgate
November 23rd, 2016, 02:41 AM
I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that

Falcon Horus
April 8th, 2018, 02:04 PM
How do we solve the problem where one planet is being used as the intended new home for two very different civilizations? One is super advanced and has been reduced to tissue samples and collected on an arc. The other is moderately, technologically advanced, is still alive and well and has recently been relocated there out of necessity. Do the Gadmeer take precedence over the Enkarans because they are the most advanced and therefore the best possible civilization to put there, or is it the Enkarans who've lost the way to their homeworld and simply want to rebuild after having been enslaved by the Goa'uld?

It's an interesting, ethical question but it doesn't keep my attention long enough to want to think too much about it. On top, we have Colonel O'Neill who decides the Enkarans are the ones who have more rights to the planet than some frozen samples do, and orders Carter to build him a bomb powerful enough to stop the ship, and possibly destroy it in the process. At the same time we have Daniel doing what he does best, trying to convince Lotan to think outside of his programming, and have him stop the terraforming. It's an honorable thing to do and I would side with Daniel. Even if there hadn't been another way, and the reactor-turned-bomb would have been needed, at least Daniel tried to reason with Lotan, using the Gadmeer's own philosophy of peace against them. Smart move.

Anyway... interesting as it may be, I wasn't particularly entertained.

How would you rate SG-1's "Scorched Earth?"

Excellent
Good
Fair
Poor
Terrible

Falcon Horus
April 9th, 2018, 05:34 AM
Finished week 26 a day into week 27 but here are the 3-episode quiz for last week (which also covered week 25, which I already posted): Scorched Earth, Beneath The Surface & Point Of No Return (https://goo.gl/forms/6nqxkr95vnCNDWMk1)

Jigsaw: Scorched Earth (https://www.jigidi.com/solve.php?id=NGS4SZ2E)

jelgate
April 14th, 2018, 04:49 PM
My stance on this episode hasn't changed. I'm still greatly disturbed how Jack is willing to kill the Gadmer and sides with the Enkarians from the beginning. Yes the episode is presented as a no win situation but the concept of not considering another species right to live disturbs me. I don't always agree with Daniel's idealism but I do in this episode in trying to hear both sides. Even if the solution is a cop out. I give it a fair as well and I scored 7 minutes and 19 seconds

Falcon Horus
June 1st, 2018, 01:37 PM
8:41 -- and the Battle of Helm's Deep is fought

Who Knows
June 1st, 2018, 11:20 PM
11:07

Falcon Horus
June 2nd, 2018, 03:23 AM
We are both padawans... :)

jelgate
June 2nd, 2018, 01:17 PM
Only one of you is a novice

Its not you FH

Who Knows
June 2nd, 2018, 05:24 PM
Only one of you is a novice

Its not you FH

I love you too jelgate. http://i.imgur.com/PM7Icuy.gif

Falcon Horus
June 3rd, 2018, 03:18 AM
:lol:

Platschu
June 3rd, 2018, 10:16 AM
STARGATE : UNIVERSE spoiler

The Gadmeer would be a perfect choice to find an other Icarus type based planets in this galaxy or any other galaxy where they came from as they have already investigated a few thousand planets. ;)

BethHG
June 28th, 2018, 01:55 PM
11:15

This is an okay episode. i did like how Daniel kept trying to find a peaceful solution.

Platschu
August 28th, 2018, 08:08 AM
The word “terraforming” sounded wrong in this episode as it means to change something to sustain human life. But here it was supporting an alien lifeform, so it was not completely right. Probably the writers used it as a meaning as the changing of the planet.

* * *

The database of the Gadmeer could have been used for the search of Icarus type planets in Universe as they have checked thousands of planets....

I also could have used them in the Revisions episode, but obviously not every toxic athmosphere are the same.

Falcon Horus
August 30th, 2018, 05:52 AM
The word “terraforming” sounded wrong in this episode as it means to change something to sustain human life. But here it was supporting an alien lifeform, so it was not completely right. Probably the writers used it as a meaning as the changing of the planet.

According to the Collins English Dictionary, it can also be used to define the transforming of planets in general. Doesn't necessarily have to be "like terra/Earth".

"planetary engineering designed to enhance the capacity of an extraterrestrial planetary environment to sustain life"