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Alex Rubit
August 24th, 2005, 10:19 PM
COUNTERPOINT

Episode: 1.18
Original Air Date: April 28, 2005
Written by Alex Rubit

Chase, Sivea, and Melanos come to realize that their best bet will be to listen to the Sentinels, and work with Sivok in order to retake Horizon.

With less than two hours until the full Enoly fleet passes the Spacegate into the MW-Galaxy, Grant, Tom, and Christine must fight to regain control over the station, which is boarded by Enoly troops.


Visit the Stargate: Horizon homepage (http://www.stargatehorizon.com) to download this episode, then stop back here for discussion.

SierraGulf1
September 18th, 2005, 10:09 AM
Definitely the best of the "trilogy" of TE, IPS, and C. I loved the ongoing action, and of course Sivok. I like Sivok's being reasonable here, and I also like his ongoing conflict of his alignments later in the season. I hope he stays around for a long time.

I look forward to seeing a bunch of pissed off Enoly later on, too.

StevetheWraith!
September 23rd, 2005, 03:30 PM
What a way to end this 3 part Enoly roller-coaster! This was an action lover's dream come true!! This episode had some of the best action scenes of the whole season coupled with the coolest Draque in the whole universe! Sivok was amazing in this episode. I can't wait to see the "new and improved" Loral and a legion of pissed off Alpha Guards in Season 2!! :)

NoDot
September 28th, 2005, 06:24 PM
I find this interesting: Draque vs Enoly, not what you'd expect. Especially after all the hype about the Enoly and their power in the Ascendant Empire during their "good old days."

Nice twist of storyline. Now, when does Sivok ascend? (<- joking)

SierraGulf1
September 28th, 2005, 07:35 PM
That would be Season 17.

Elite Anubis Guard
September 29th, 2005, 10:39 AM
I rather like Sivok. He's gonna be a cool character.

NoDot
September 29th, 2005, 01:55 PM
That would be Season 17.Thanks for the laugh.
RoFL!

McKay_help_us
August 22nd, 2006, 05:45 AM
Very good ending loved it. Can't wait to see how loral makes use of kardos. I also liked Sivok in this episode, but can't help but think he will only betray in the future.

SierraGulf1
August 23rd, 2006, 07:26 AM
I'm glad you enjoyed it. What Loral does with Kardos, and what direction Sivok's character takes, are both very important plotlines later on in season two and beyond.

Elite Anubis Guard
August 23rd, 2006, 11:09 AM
I really love Sivok and his interactions with Grant.

cheese
September 5th, 2006, 07:29 AM
Review

What a way to finish this awesome three part story!

The Sentinels are very very interesting, just how bad are they??

Chase is still obsessed with his watch, I donít think it went too far, it still amused me every when he brought it up.

There was great exploration of the Ancient/Sentinel history and Ultera was a definite "ooooooooh" moment.

Grant's situation on horizon was a huge dilema, the team were rally put to the test in this one, more than any previous episode.

The Enoly too have become even more interesting. They believe the Sentinels are gods, and yet they think that its about time they became gods themselves and took the Sentinels place. Their philosophy is pretty awesome and again sets them apart from other enemies in the SG Universe

The neural encoding idea was also something I really liked, both in the Draque and in the Enoly. And on top of having the Draque KNOW that their loyalty is genetically encoded into them, which adds some real oddness to them. The new Draque cloaks too were cool, adding another level of danger to them.

I liked the toxin plan, it felt very much like a "Stargate" plan. Though the Toxin was a pretty nasty way to kill the Enoly, which in a way generated a bit of sympathy, made them more rounded as an enemy.

What happened to Yusuf was a big shock, though its impact was dulled slightly by his survival.

The episode was a fantastic conclusion to a fantastic three part story. This episode really lived up to the promise of the previous two. And there is so much to look forward to! Ultera, the Nebulons (is that database the key to finding Ultera??), Loral/Kardos...

Simply Outstanding.

jelgate
November 15th, 2007, 06:12 PM
Jelgate's Two CentsApparently I am in the minority. Even though Counterpoint was good In Pugatory's Shadow was better. I guese Chase was following the old saying, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Working with The Draque/Sentienls was truely remarkable. They definatly weren't getting along. I didn't quite comprehend the logic. So there is a three way race to find find Ultera. Why do I have feeling that will be tied into the season finale. On to Grant's station sabatoge. Truly remarkable, apparently David and Grant are smarter than the Enloy gave them credit for. It would have been so cool?* if this was televised, to see the space battle between the Enloy and Valiant/Vorian fleet.?* I wonder what happens to Sivok considering that he's injured and in the infirmiry.?* Probably the best part was at the end where?* we realize that the Enloy are controlling the Tokra
Questions/Favorite Quote
Considering that the galaxy's are close enough for a Stargate network without a ZPM, shouldn't the Enloy's hyperspace capabilities allow them to reach The Milky Way[LEFT]Chase:Another City
P.S. Horizon counts as a Stargate media

Alex Rubit
November 15th, 2007, 07:32 PM
I didn't quite comprehend the logic.

The Enoly at this point were trying to take over the Ascendant Empire. Go from being part of the empire to actually leading the empire. As I recall, they did have a pretty important role, but some of them -- led by Dureg -- were trying to enhance their role. Basically get rid of the Sentinels, and take their place. I know there's a moment in there where Gorlon tells Grant that he thinks its time for the Enoly to become the "new sentinels."

And the Draque are loyal to the Sentinels, so they're actually working for the Sentinels, and against the Enoly. So it's really an internal power struggle within the Ascendant Empire.


So there is a three way race to find find Ultera. Why do I have feeling that will be tied into the season finale.

I don't know. What could have possible given you that idea? ;)


Considering that the galaxy's are close enough for a Stargate network without a ZPM, shouldn't the Enloy's hyperspace capabilities allow them to reach The Milky Way?

Theoretically they could fly their ships from the Triangulum Galaxy to the Milky Way, but it would take them a very long time. Their hyperdrives aren't as advanced as the Asgard hyperdrives are.


P.S. Horizon counts as a Stargate media

Hmm. I think I know what you mean, but I'm not sure.

Anyway, definitely looking forward to seeing what you think of the upcoming episodes.

jelgate
November 15th, 2007, 07:38 PM
I don't know. What could have possible given you that idea? ;)It is similiar to S7 of SG-1 when they are tryingto find Atlantis to defeat Anubis
Theoretically they could fly their ships from the Triangulum Galaxy to the Milky Way, but it would take them a very long time. Their hyperdrives aren't as advanced as the Asgard hyperdrives are.Hmm. I think I know what you mean, but I'm not sure.I was under the impression that the Enloy had intergalatic hyperdrives like us.?* I was refering to my new sig

Alex Rubit
November 15th, 2007, 07:52 PM
I was under the impression that the Enloy had intergalatic hyperdrives like us.?*

The truth is really that so far we've kept it kind of vague just how advanced their hyperdrives are. I don't think it was ever addressed directly in the series, as far as I recall. So technically we could decide to go either way with it. I don't think it ever really came up so far (could be wrong, though), but my thinking was always that if they'd take their ships to our galaxy, it would probably take them a while.


I was refering to my new sig

Oh, I see. I didn't notice that earlier actually.

jelgate
November 15th, 2007, 08:17 PM
The truth is really that so far we've kept it kind of vague just how advanced their hyperdrives are. I don't think it was ever addressed directly in the series, as far as I recall. So technically we could decide to go either way with it. I don't think it ever really came up so far (could be wrong, though), but my thinking was always that if they'd take their ships to our galaxy, it would probably take them a while.Here was my train of thought. Tell me if I'm wrong.
Fact: The Aschedant Empire once had a war with the AncientsFact: The Ancients had intergalatic hyperdriveFact:The Enloy were once servants of the SentinelsTheory: The Ascendant Empire must be technological enough to rival the Ancients which means the Ascendant Empire must have intergalatic hyperdrives. The Enloy must have intergalatic hyperdrives because they use to work for the Sentienls

Alex Rubit
November 15th, 2007, 08:27 PM
Here was my train of thought. Tell me if I'm wrong.
Fact: The Aschedant Empire once had a war with the AncientsFact: The Ancients had intergalatic hyperdriveFact:The Enloy were once servants of the SentinelsTheory: The Ascendant Empire must be technological enough to rival the Ancients which means the Ascendant Empire must have intergalatic hyperdrives. The Enloy must have intergalatic hyperdrives because they use to work for the Sentienls

The Sentinels were at war with the Ancients. How exactly that worked we don't know yet actually. Did the Sentinels have their own ships? Did they use Enoly and/or Draque ships? Did the Sentinels take on a human form during this war? Those are all questions that haven't been answered... yet.

But either way, the Ascendant Empire had weapons technology that rivaled the Ancients. It doesn't mean they had hyperdrives that were as advanced as theirs. What happened was that the Ancients expanded into the Triangulum Galaxy, and the Ascendant Empire didn't like that, as they considered that galaxy their territory. So they started a fight.

But in the end, the Ancients won, and it resulted in the Sentinels being "locked out" of our universe. Again, how that happened exactly is something we have yet to find out. And as a result of this, the Ascendant Empire was severely weakened. Only much, much later did it start to rebuild itself. But today's Ascendant Empire isn't the same as the one that fought the Ancients.

So, honestly, those are all questions that are up for debate. It's also possible that the Ascendant Empire used to have more advanced technology back in the days when the Ancients were around, and that some of that technology was lost.

But those are some very good questions. And that's a perfect topic to be speculating about, until one day we'll reveal the answers... which we do intend to do at some point in the show's run. ;)

jelgate
November 16th, 2007, 05:54 AM
I'm sorry for not writing this in my orginial review, but I was kind of curious why didn't Christine carry a P-90. It goes without saying that a P-90 can do more damage than a 9mm. If it was serious enough situation, Daniel and McKay would carry a P-90

Alex Rubit
November 16th, 2007, 09:09 AM
I'm sorry for not writing this in my orginial review, but I was kind of curious why didn't Christine carry a P-90. It goes without saying that a P-90 can do more damage than a 9mm. If it was serious enough situation, Daniel and McKay would carry a P-90

At that point she hadn't had all that much weapons training, which is something that's heavily changed now, of course. So it was decided that she'd just be carrying a P90. But looking back at it today, I think it would have made more sense for her to also have a P90.

Professor D.H.D. Puddlejumper
February 9th, 2008, 11:19 PM
Considering that the galaxy's are close enough for a Stargate network without a ZPM, shouldn't the Enloy's hyperspace capabilities allow them to reach The Milky Way
Chase:Another City
P.S. Horizon counts as a Stargate media

The Triangulum Galaxy is about 3 million light years from the Milky Way which is about the same distance as between MW and Pegasus. The Daedelus takes about 2 weeks to travel between MW and Pegasus so the Valiant should be able to travel between MW and Triangulum in about the same amount of time. Earth ships, of course, have the benefit of Asgard hyperdrives. Not sure what hyperdrive capability the Enoly have in terms of intergalactic travel.

Interestingly, in addition to being in the local group, Pegasus, Triangulum and the mammoth Andromeda galaxy are all in the same general direction from the Milky Way.

http://www.atlasoftheuniverse.com/localgr.html

It isn't completely clear to me why it's possible to gate from Horizon to Triangulum without the need to dial an eighth chevron when it is necessary between Earth and Pegasus; the eighth chevron being an extra distance calculation. Likewise why not the extra needed power of a ZPM?

I should also think that it's possible to gate between Horizon and Earth despite being part of different gate networks since they're doing it between Earth and Pegasus. But since I'm still back reading season 1 perhaps this has since been accomplished.

Oh, by the way, good episode.

Alex Rubit
February 10th, 2008, 06:19 PM
It isn't completely clear to me why it's possible to gate from Horizon to Triangulum without the need to dial an eighth chevron when it is necessary between Earth and Pegasus; the eighth chevron being an extra distance calculation. Likewise why not the extra needed power of a ZPM?

I should also think that it's possible to gate between Horizon and Earth despite being part of different gate networks since they're doing it between Earth and Pegasus. But since I'm still back reading season 1 perhaps this has since been accomplished.

This does both get addressed early in Season Two actually.