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View Full Version : We call them 'Ancients' NOW, but...



Larry The Chevron Guy
June 30th, 2004, 06:50 AM
What were they called when they WEREN'T ancient?

Do these people have a name? Or have they always been "The Ancients"?

If they have always been the latter of the two, then the writers have some explaining to do to keep the cheeze factor down...IMHO, or course. :-)

AbydosTraveller
June 30th, 2004, 07:36 AM
I've always een wondering that myself... maybe they just never had a name.

Or maybe the name they gave themselves was too embarassing, so they call themselves the Ancients... :D I can think of a few names I wouldn't want to call myself.

uknesvuinng
June 30th, 2004, 09:54 AM
Someone suggested in another thread (I forget which thread now) that perhaps they were called the Ancients, but the word ancient then had nothing to do with being old or anything, it was just the name of their race. As time marched on and their language mixed with ours, we took that name as a word to mean old because by then, they were old.

Anubis
June 30th, 2004, 09:59 AM
I think that may have always been their name. I'm uncertain why, but I just have that feeling

iluuuuuvjack
June 30th, 2004, 10:03 AM
Maybe they just wanted to be called the ancients, because it made them sound wise and powerful...
or something :rolleyes:

Anubis
June 30th, 2004, 10:20 AM
I think you may be right. Well, that's what I think. Besides, they are wise and powerful

sarge
June 30th, 2004, 11:51 AM
They're wise and powerful AND old.... I've always thought they were the first sentiant race or at least the oldest one still around. Maybe they were already quite old when the other races met them....
NOX: dude, you are ancient.......

tfalls1
June 30th, 2004, 01:29 PM
Here's my theory that I posted elsewhere also.....
Atlantis is a city-ship that traveled to Earth long ago from elsewhere.
The "Ancients" went about there plan to put stargates on lots of planets, start some colonies, etc. When they were done with our galaxy they left behind some outposts and went off to the Pegasus Galaxy... now
spoilers.
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.
.
.

.
according to the europe DVD preview... the ancients ran were going about their same plane putting in stargates and colonies when they ran into the Wraith who drove them back to Atlantis... the ship-city was under seige so for some reason instead of flying off they sank it and went thru the stargate back to the milkyway galaxy ....
thus the race were already advance when they settled our galaxy thus the name "ancients".
thoughts?

Teal'c
June 30th, 2004, 04:11 PM
Atlantians? :P

Nolamom
June 30th, 2004, 06:47 PM
Many languages / peoples' words for themselves can be translated as "human" or "people". We may never know what they called themselves (You know you can't get a strait answer from Oma Desala!) but may always know them by what others called them. If they were the first of the great races, then likely the other three would have referred to them as the "old ones" or the "ancients". Just a thought.

Anubis
June 30th, 2004, 11:10 PM
Atlantians is a great name! :D

Elmseeker
June 30th, 2004, 11:15 PM
Someone suggested in another thread (I forget which thread now) that perhaps they were called the Ancients, but the word ancient then had nothing to do with being old or anything, it was just the name of their race. As time marched on and their language mixed with ours, we took that name as a word to mean old because by then, they were old.

This is probably the best theory I've seen on the subject yet. It would make perfect sense for their own name for themselves "Ancients" would come to mean "Old Ones" in the languages of those they came in contact with, especially in th SG-1 Universe where they had such a great influence.

Anubis
June 30th, 2004, 11:18 PM
Perfect name, because they'd probably know they were the first ones and they sprung life onto others

uknesvuinng
July 1st, 2004, 09:05 AM
Perfect name, because they'd probably know they were the first ones and they sprung life onto others

I think you missed the point, they didn't choose the name "Ancients" because they were old or the first or anything like that, it was just the name of their race. The word ancient came to mean old over time as it passed down through those they influenced. Of course, if we want to get specific, their name in their own language was Anquietas.

Anubis
July 1st, 2004, 10:53 AM
You're right. Thanks for placing that into account

Positively Kanyon
July 1st, 2004, 04:51 PM
I think you missed the point, they didn't choose the name "Ancients" because they were old or the first or anything like that, it was just the name of their race. The word ancient came to mean old over time as it passed down through those they influenced. Of course, if we want to get specific, their name in their own language was Anquietas.

I agree with you there, to an extent. The Latin word for "Ancients" might have meant something different millions of years ago. Has anyone noticed that "Ancients" and "Atlanteans" are very close to each other? You could say that the language and slang evolved over so much time the Latin word has a completely different meaning now, as it did millions of years ago.

SGSlugger
July 2nd, 2004, 07:22 AM
Maybe their whole name was "Ancient Atlanteans", but we lost the Atlanteans somewhere? I'm probably wrong, but think for a moment: It's six syllables = gate address?

Anubis
July 2nd, 2004, 10:41 AM
Maybe. Strange name, but possible

Ugly Pig
July 2nd, 2004, 10:47 AM
Maybe their whole name was "Ancient Atlanteans", but we lost the Atlanteans somewhere? I'm probably wrong, but think for a moment: It's six syllables = gate address?
Nah, gate addresses are for planets, not people. I doubt the planet was ever called "Ancient Atlanteans". :)

Anubis
July 2nd, 2004, 10:49 AM
I don't think that either, but it may be possible

SGSlugger
July 2nd, 2004, 07:02 PM
Just food for thought, really. It could double as the name of their homeworld, thus giving us the gate address.

Torley
July 2nd, 2004, 10:37 PM
Rumor has it they were called Oldfogies at one point by the other Three Races, but they objected to this term.

Aither
July 3rd, 2004, 04:55 AM
They were called "the Ancients". Indeed, according to Thor, there were 4 great races : Nox, Ancients, Asgards, Furlings. So I think they were already called "Ancients" (the Furlings are a race which exists no more too and they are not called "Ancients")

Mio
July 3rd, 2004, 05:04 AM
They were called "the Ancients". Indeed, according to Thor, there were 4 great races : Nox, Ancients, Asgards, Furlings. So I think they were already called "Ancients" (the Furlings are a race which exists no more too and they are not called "Ancients")
The ancients still exist....just in their wierd-glowy-form...

And we don't know about the Furlings.

All we know is that one GROUP of furlings who broke off from technology died off.

Aither
July 3rd, 2004, 05:12 AM
The ancients still exist....just in their wierd-glowy-form...

They can't do anything in our existence plan, so it is as if they didn't exist. Moreover, the Asgards may not know the Ancients still exist.

Ugly Pig
July 3rd, 2004, 05:38 AM
They can't do anything in our existence plan, so it is as if they didn't exist.
They can. They just won't.


Moreover, the Asgards may not know the Ancients still exist.
They know they exist. They told Jack that they "moved on from our region of space".

Anubis
July 3rd, 2004, 05:51 AM
The Ancients are still about just not in this part of the galaxy and we can't do much about it apart from know that they are around...somewhere

gate traveler
July 3rd, 2004, 10:27 AM
Maybe their original name can't be pronounced in english.

Mio
July 3rd, 2004, 01:04 PM
Anquiatos.

Or however you wanna spell it....We are the ancients. The fifth race...the word for ancient was probably just derived from their name...


as to them being called atlanteans, probably not. Atlantis was built towards the end of their civilization, before they flew out to pegasus.

Anubis
July 3rd, 2004, 01:30 PM
Maybe it can't be said in translation

Mio
July 3rd, 2004, 02:38 PM
Wait!

After carefully pouring over the little bit of Ancient writing we've seen in the series, I've discovered a pattern. After much time analyzing it, i've found the true name of the ancients:

The Are All Called: BOB!
::nod::

Teal'c
July 3rd, 2004, 02:38 PM
Anquiatos.

Or however you wanna spell it....We are the ancients. The fifth race...the word for ancient was probably just derived from their name...


as to them being called atlanteans, probably not. Atlantis was built towards the end of their civilization, before they flew out to pegasus.
But Jack called Earth "Terra Atlantis"....

Mio
July 3rd, 2004, 02:42 PM
Gateworld's Transcript:
JACKSON: Jack?
O'NEILL: Terra Atlantis.
JACKSON: Terra's Earth. Atlantis ...
CARTER: The lost city of Atlantis?!
JACKSON: Are you say the lost city of the Ancients is here? (pointing at the image of Earth)
CARTER (also pointing): Antarctica.
O'NEILL: Subo glacios.
JACKSON: Under the ice. The city we've been looking for is under the ice of Antarctica.


When he said Terra Atlantis, he wasn't really able to form complete sentances. So we don't really know what Terra Atlantis was referring to? Is Earth Atlantis? Nah. The city is Atlantis, we all know that.

When he said Terra Atlantis he might have been trying to say something like The planet where Atlantis is.

Anubis
July 4th, 2004, 01:00 AM
I'm guessing 'Terra Atlantis' means Earth's Atlantis or Atlantis on Earth. I'm not completely sure but it would certainly make sense

Mio
July 4th, 2004, 05:12 AM
Abyss must have ruined jack for prepositions......

Teal'c
July 4th, 2004, 04:47 PM
Gateworld's Transcript:
JACKSON: Jack?
O'NEILL: Terra Atlantis.
JACKSON: Terra's Earth. Atlantis ...
CARTER: The lost city of Atlantis?!
JACKSON: Are you say the lost city of the Ancients is here? (pointing at the image of Earth)
CARTER (also pointing): Antarctica.
O'NEILL: Subo glacios.
JACKSON: Under the ice. The city we've been looking for is under the ice of Antarctica.


When he said Terra Atlantis, he wasn't really able to form complete sentances. So we don't really know what Terra Atlantis was referring to? Is Earth Atlantis? Nah. The city is Atlantis, we all know that.

When he said Terra Atlantis he might have been trying to say something like The planet where Atlantis is.
So the city is called Atlantis, does that not mean the planet can't also be called Atlantis? I wonder where I could examples of where that does happen, well, there's Washington the city, and there's also Washington the state. Dublin city, located in Dublin county... see my point here? :P

SBacklin
July 4th, 2004, 08:00 PM
The ancients still exist....just in their wierd-glowy-form...

And we don't know about the Furlings.

All we know is that one GROUP of furlings who broke off from technology died off.


Where did you find out about the "group" of Furlings who broke away from technology and died off? I don't remember ever hearing about the Furlings. Unless...is it that episode where they found a planet with some kind of gateway that was suppose to be some kind of paradise, but they died off because the Goa'uld found out and "got in"? I think the episode was called Paradise Lost. Correct me if i'm wrong.

uknesvuinng
July 4th, 2004, 09:15 PM
Where did you find out about the "group" of Furlings who broke away from technology and died off? I don't remember ever hearing about the Furlings. Unless...is it that episode where they found a planet with some kind of gateway that was suppose to be some kind of paradise, but they died off because the Goa'uld found out and "got in"? I think the episode was called Paradise Lost. Correct me if i'm wrong.

Indeed that is the episode. The Furlings set up a nice little paradise and started inviting people, until some Goa'uld showed up with his paranoia plant and everyone killed each other. From what I understand, TPTB said that the skeletons were originally supposed to be furling, but they changed their mind and made them all humans that had answered the call. The Furlings remained suspiciously absent from their little utopia of doom. Or they could be a species of dust puppies and the furling members of the utopia all died after a guy with allergies showed up and began sneezing profusely....

SBacklin
July 4th, 2004, 10:25 PM
When I hear the name "Furlings", I do picture these cute little furry things. LOL. I really wish that the writers would work it in somehow so that the Furlings show up for some reason, either to help someone in Battle (Asgards or Earthers). That is the only race of the 4 elder races that we haven't seen and I think it sucks.

Anubis
July 4th, 2004, 11:09 PM
I agree, the word Furlings makes you think fur so you'd think that hey are very cute and furry! :)

Ugly Pig
July 5th, 2004, 04:30 AM
So the city is called Atlantis, does that not mean the planet can't also be called Atlantis? I wonder where I could examples of where that does happen, well, there's Washington the city, and there's also Washington the state. Dublin city, located in Dublin county... see my point here? :P
There's also Chulak the city on the planet Chulak. :)

Anubis
July 5th, 2004, 06:38 AM
Even better, the name of the planet for the address!

Teal'c
July 5th, 2004, 03:19 PM
Even better, the name of the planet for the address!
....... congratulations, you watched Lost City! :P

Una's Daddy
July 5th, 2004, 08:15 PM
This is a good thread to kinda post my own theory of the Ancients. It's only the theorizing of my own fertile mind after watching The Lowdown, so you can't really say its spoilersque.

I'm thinking that the very first "people", so to speak, where the ones called the Ancients. Because their civilization had been around so long and advanced so far, it only stands to reason that it would ebb and flow, that some would become more advanced, some less so, some might become separated from the others and develop or even evolve along a completely different evolutionary path, and so on. So I imagine that the 4 great races, because they look only slightly different than each other, they in fact came from the one original species called the Ancients. They simply came back into alliance when their paths crossed again thousands, or perhaps millions of years later.

From the Ancients that we have seen, we know that physiologically they are almost identical to humans, but with more advanced mental abilities. They appear to be able to control their own "life force", and apparently generate more of it than any ordinary human. They also seem to have some telepathic abilities. If this group of the Ancients achieved the high technological sophistication they apparently did, it stands to reason they would also take advantage of ways to purify and reinforce their own genome (make themselves stronger, healthier, etc, but freezing the evolution of their outward appearance, call it hubris) while advancing their latent mental abilities. Since SG-1 found one of those on earth (the woman) we can also surmise from that most likely, for whatever reason you'd want to speculate, they somehow seeded the genetic code for the rise of humans on earth, as a legacy, or as a safeguard against some unforeseen collapse of their civilization.

And that brings us to the Asgard. Maybe they too where once Ancients, but they broke off from their evolutionary and historical line long before, and so their technological and philosophical approaches would be different. They let normal evolution take its course, apparently, to their detriment. It also explains their intense preoccupation with Earth and humans. They KNOW what they are, and what they can become. Humans (because they are a form of less-evolved Ancient) may also may hold the clues to how they can help themselves (with that whole reproduction/genetic breakdown thing), hence all the prior experimentation and abductions. The Knox and Ferlings likewise are similar in that they also chose a different path than the original Ancients, but came back together in the alliance with their respective differences.

Anyone wanna hear about my theory of the Wraith, or should I shut up now? :P

Kaloo
July 5th, 2004, 08:39 PM
You have a cool theory

Una's Daddy
July 5th, 2004, 09:12 PM
You have a cool theory

Thanks Kaloo. I might as well have a stab at the Wraith thing while I'm still thinking about it, anyways :)

As far as my take on the whole Wraith/Ancient war thing, apparently the Wraiths are like the polar opposite of the original Ancients. Where the Ancients produce an overabundance of "life force", the Wraiths are life force consumers. If you plop an Ancient down amidst a hundred regular humans or even a 100 Asgard, to a Wraith, the Ancient would stand out like a 100 watt light bulb in a field of fireflies. The Wraith would instantly be drawn to the greatest food source, the Ancient, and ignore the rest.

So the Ancients come in contact with this malicious species and duke it out with them, but over time the Wraiths begin to overwhelm them. They build Atlantis on Earth, their most secret base, the home of their legacy project, as their lifeboat in case of total disaster. Total disaster indeed does come, and they are forced to leave the Milky Way for the Pegasus galaxy using Atlantis, in the hope that they can start fresh there far away from the Wraiths.

And it works for a while. They re-colonize a whole new system of worlds and rebuild their civilization, but eventually the Wraiths track them down. They're too damn tasty of morsels to let them get away that easily, and they've already picked off all the remaining Ancients they could find in the Milky Way. They overwhelm the Pegasus Ancients completely this time, but they're smarter about it. They don't kill them all right away. Instead, they begin a program of culling off only the strongest of the surviving Ancients for food first, working backward in power systematically, sort of like picking only the sweetest fruit first. By doing this over time, they not only immediately eliminate the Ancients most dangerous to them right away, the ones they leave alone to breed amongst themselves carry progressively weaker traits and manifestations of the Ancient powers. So, by the time the SG-Atlantis team makes the scene, the selective breeding program of the Wraiths have effectively removed the most defining traits of the remaining Ancients, namely their overproduction of life force and dangerous telepathic abilities. That would explain why Ancients would still be scattered all over this new gate network (not being taken there by entities like the Goa'uld) but still only appear to be ordinary humans (but still look like us, as they're from the original group that froze the physical manifestation of their evolution), as they have been culled by a side effect of the Wraiths eating habits into appearing to be just that.

Because it is mobile, Atlantis remained hidden, but how it becomes abandoned without the Wraiths destroying it? Screw it. I'll let the show tell me :P

Anyways, that was my stream-of-consciousness take at it :)

Anubis
July 5th, 2004, 11:05 PM
Pretty decent theory, detailed.



Teal'c, I like your humour!