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    Daniel the atheist doci

    As Vala leaves and probably takes the fun of Season 9 with her, my worst fear is we are left with Daniel's speeches about free will.

    Let's face it, compared to the Goaulds, the Ori are actual metaphysical beings and they perform actual miracles. That changes everything, it is not just a worse villain, it is a change of nature. Formerly the purpose of sg1 was establishing simple truth and killing monsters, now it's about a theological opinion opposed to another.

    Well I have the impression that in every country people who sit on their sofa to watch a sci-fi show will enjoy establishing simple truth and killling monsters more than theological debates.

    Plus the writers insist so much on Christian references that it's becoming a bit too serious and too political. Embarassing I would say. Sometimes I have the impression that Daniel will cross my tv screen like a stargate, look at me in the eyes and try to convince me I want to hate those real-life priests and all that.

    To cut it short it looks my sci-fi show is hijacked by a sect with an actual serious political agenda.
    No rep points, I'm out of the Karma now. No title would be perfect.
    I apologize for not having time to read everything, and missing relevant contributions.
    Please don't read my posts as important about real life issues, and don't reply as such.


    #2
    I havent got that impression at all
    gumboYaYa: you are all beautiful, your words and openness are what make that shine. don't forget how much talent love and beauty you all have.
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      #3
      I don't see the supposed Christian references some poeple are talking about. Sure, a few of the parables the Priors told in 'Origin' sounded like Old Testament stories, which prompted Mitchell's (utterly believable) teasing. Other than that, there's really not much to go on.

      And I don't think the audience is too dumb to cope with the odd philosophical discourse. It won't be the first time SG-1 has entered into deeper discussions. Even so, spoilers indicate we're up for a lot of action and special effects, which will certainly satisfy anyone not looking for more strenous mental exercises (like keeping up with Daniel-Jackson-Rapid-Speak(TM)).

      Sure, a couple of the Stars have been replaced, and the enemies have been mostly replaced, but this is still Stargate. That means action, adventure, humor, and intelligence, all wrapped in twenty shiny hour long packages. Well, forty now, with Atlantis.


      a time to mourn

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        #4
        Originally posted by Furling God
        As Vala leaves and probably takes the fun of Season 9 with her, my worst fear is we are left with Daniel's speeches about free will.

        Let's face it, compared to the Goaulds, the Ori are actual metaphysical beings and they perform actual miracles. That changes everything, it is not just a worse villain, it is a change of nature. Formerly the purpose of sg1 was establishing simple truth and killing monsters, now it's about a theological opinion opposed to another.

        Well I have the impression that in every country people who sit on their sofa to watch a sci-fi show will enjoy establishing simple truth and killling monsters more than theological debates.

        Plus the writers insist so much on Christian references that it's becoming a bit too serious and too political. Embarassing I would say. Sometimes I have the impression that Daniel will cross my tv screen like a stargate, look at me in the eyes and try to convince me I want to hate those real-life priests and all that.

        To cut it short it looks my sci-fi show is hijacked by a sect with an actual serious political agenda.



        no theyre just more technologically advanced anubises because the prior use technology they admitted it. So heres what i think they pull out some wraith stunners and kick major prior ass. because i dont think the ori are more advanced then ancients were. so the stunners should go through. unless they mastered the green sheild form atlantis season one. And i can wait till we see the ori fleet.

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          #5
          I felt it was getting a little too religious for my liking as well. But it was still good. Personally I find Vala extremely annoying and somewhat unnecessary. I found origin to be a lot better than the first two episodes, and the ties that bind to be pretty crap.

          Spoiler:
          What I gathered was that the Ori don't pose as gods but want to be worshipped by the lower beings anyway, purely on the basis that they are "superior" or more evolved if you like. What I didn't get is why they say the people that don't follow them are evil.


          What I would like to see is a prior having a chitchat with a scientologist! :-)
          Parap pup pup paaa ... I'm Lovin' It!

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            #6
            Originally posted by qasimjavid
            I havent got that impression at all
            I didn't get that impression either.

            I think it's just a touch bit paranoid to assume that someone would use a science fiction series on the sci-fi channel (a narrow audience) for any political agendas of any sort... that's why we have the News.

            The fact is, SG is a scifi action series. ie there needs to be 'action'. So any theological discourse will hardly overtake the series and they will have to do some physical battling against the Ori 's followers as well as explore some actual science. This does not leave much room for agendas, particularly half-assed ones so mixed up that they can be easily interpreted to suit whatever leanings you have.

            Some people see Christian and some see Islamic Jihadists and some of us just see entertainment.

            "You know what would make a good story? Something about a clown who makes people happy, but inside he's real sad. Also, he has severe diarrhea." - Jack Handy

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              #7
              Originally posted by MarshAngel
              I didn't get that impression either.
              ...
              Some people see Christian and some see Islamic Jihadists and some of us just see entertainment.
              I must agree. I think everyone reads into the show what they wish to see anyway. That's why the discussions about shows themes are so interesting to me.

              Comment


                #8
                Vala is annoying but she grows on me and her utter irreverence and dishonesty is amusing and annoying at the same time, though the annoyance comes moreso in empathising with daniel. Furling God says they are actual metaphysical beings and perform actual miracles and so they actually are Gods. If that is how you define a God then yes they are Gods. But they more like an extended version of the Goa'uld, "primitive" peoples didn't understand goa'uld technology so for them the goa'uld were godly, same goes for worshipping asgards as norse gods (not seeing as holograms) or even the crazy guy that carter previously went out with. The Ori and Priors are like that, they simply have greater knowledge of the universe so seem Godly. I think Daniel has no bones of contention with this, I think his issue is with free will and that the Ori force people to believe in them or destroy them, something goa'uld do but the asgard and we do not. I think the Ori introduction is great in that they have such an unbending clash with our common human values. The Goa'uld are funnier, more comical enemies very typical within sci-fi compared to the finer line walked in season 9. However it is interesting that though the Ori are intent on having lower beings worship them they are teaching them to rise and ascend. All in all I think it is shaping to be a great season, I am enjoying it more than Atlantis, whereas before I was loooking forward moreso to Atlantis.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Ganjaman
                  Furling God says they are actual metaphysical beings and perform actual miracles and so they actually are Gods.
                  No I don't say that, not in the context of this discussion at least.

                  Originally posted by Ganjaman
                  If that is how you define a God then yes they are Gods.
                  True. But I'd rather write it without the capital G.

                  Originally posted by Ganjaman
                  But they more like an extended version of the Goa'uld.
                  Nope. The Goaulds are actual physical beings, using tools to impersonate gods. Advanced tools but still tools. That is why an atheist criticism towards them was easy. The heroes were just fighting for plain truth.

                  The Ori are metaphysical. Daniel himself admits they are metaphysical and don't use tools to fake their miracles. Therefore Daniel is now on his own crusade for his own opinion on metaphysics.

                  From what he says in his speeches and debates, he seems to me like a mixture of left-wing Protestant and neo-Gnostic.
                  No rep points, I'm out of the Karma now. No title would be perfect.
                  I apologize for not having time to read everything, and missing relevant contributions.
                  Please don't read my posts as important about real life issues, and don't reply as such.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by qasimjavid
                    I havent got that impression at all
                    Agreed, I do not get any of the impressions that Furling God is talking about...

                    I really like this season of SG1... it's new, exciting, and the theological stuff is cool. Makes ya think a little... lo and behold a tv show makes you do that!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by MarshAngel
                      I think it's just a touch bit paranoid to assume that someone would use a science fiction series on the sci-fi channel (a narrow audience) for any political agendas of any sort... that's why we have the News.
                      I don't think so. For instance the propaganda in favour of the American forces is blatant in many recent movies, and the military admit having been consulted.

                      In the history of cultural creations in general you will find many people who had a political opinion they wished to express. Some were communists, other conservative, other ecologists, etc..... Furthermore artistic productions always take place in a sociological context pervaded with political ideas, or broadly accepted judgements about society if you prefer.

                      By the way I also wish to congratulate those who on this thread or others have denied that there were references to Christianism in season 9. I wish them good luck.
                      No rep points, I'm out of the Karma now. No title would be perfect.
                      I apologize for not having time to read everything, and missing relevant contributions.
                      Please don't read my posts as important about real life issues, and don't reply as such.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Hatcheter
                        And I don't think the audience is too dumb to cope with the odd philosophical discourse. It won't be the first time SG-1 has entered into deeper discussions...
                        And I surely hope it won't be the last. Addressing moral and philosophical issues is one of the great things about the series (and science fiction in general). The fact that religious fanaticism is a significant problem today simply makes SG-1 all the more relevant and provocative.
                        Andrew

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                          #13
                          The Christian overtones don't bother me, since they're fairly minimal. I've gotten more of an impression of the Ori as a metaphor for the negative, fanatical aspects that all major religions have. I also don't see the Ori as being that far removed from the Goa'uld, since they're still offering an ultimatum to serve or die, which is wrong in any context, as Daniel pointed out in "The Powers That Be." Regardless of where their power comes from, they're lording it over others and using it for coercion.

                          I do agree, however, that turning SG-1 into a series of speeches after speeches on those issues is the wrong way to go. I'm looking forward to the armies that that Doci promised or an effective means of combatting the Priors so we can get a bit more action and a bit less debate on the show. It occurs to me now that I'm thinking about this (and I may be wrong, so correct me if I am) that Mitchell, the new leader of the SGC's flagship field unit, hasn't fired a weapon once this season...
                          Thornbird: I'm Major Robort Thornbird. And you are?
                          Jack: Captain James T. Kirk of the starship Enterprise.
                          Thornbird: Your dog tags say otherwise.
                          Jack: ... They're lying.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Furling God
                            <snipage>To cut it short it looks my sci-fi show is hijacked by a sect with an actual serious political agenda.
                            I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure that almost the exact same creative team in charge of S1-8 are in charge of S9. So I think if they had some actual political agenda they may have gotten to it before now.

                            That being said I would dislike it if they went all speechy and dark on us. Leave that for BSG. Give us Stargate like Stargate has always been with some speechy, some dark, some fun, some technobably, and lots of cool action. Since it is the same team I expect to get the same great stuff.

                            BTW can anyone here really see Peter DeLuise\Joseph Mallozzi\Martin Wood and the rest with some deep dark religous\policital agenda? Well Joe does have the ice cream agenda and someone certainly is in the Jell-O companies pocket and there was the whole pineapple conspiracy, but other then that Im not seeing it.
                            Joseph Mallozzi -"In the meantime, I'm into season 5 of OZ (where the show takes an unfortunate hairpin turn into "the not so wonderful world of fantasy")"

                            ^^^ Kinda sounds like seasons 9 and 10 of SG-1 to me. Thor, ya got Aspirin?

                            AGateFan has officially Gone Fishin (with Jack, Sam, Daniel, Teal'c) and is hoping Atlantis does not take that same hairpin turn.

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by alewis104
                              And I surely hope it won't be the last. Addressing moral and philosophical issues is one of the great things about the series (and science fiction in general). The fact that religious fanaticism is a significant problem today simply makes SG-1 all the more relevant and provocative.
                              Indeed. They have the opportunity to make some pretty gutsy story choices this season, and I hope they pull off something amazing. (I have no doubt that it will be entertaining, even if it is "safe" storytelling.)


                              Originally posted by TheCorpulent1
                              I do agree, however, that turning SG-1 into a series of speeches after speeches on those issues is the wrong way to go. I'm looking forward to the armies that that Doci promised or an effective means of combatting the Priors so we can get a bit more action and a bit less debate on the show.
                              I'm hoping for more ineffective methods first, to up the tension. Hopefully ones with lots of explosions. (Hide claymores around a gate and lets see how a Prior copes with that!)


                              Originally posted by TheCorpulent1
                              It occurs to me now that I'm thinking about this (and I may be wrong, so correct me if I am) that Mitchell, the new leader of the SGC's flagship field unit, hasn't fired a weapon once this season...
                              He fired missiles (in a flahsback). Come to think of it, Vala is the only one who has tried to shoot somebody. Daniel hasn't fired a weapon. Teal'c shot a wall.


                              Originally posted by AGateFan
                              I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure that almost the exact same creative team in charge of S1-8 are in charge of S9. So I think if they had some actual political agenda they may have gotten to it before now.
                              Yeah, it's the same crew that's been running it for the last several years.


                              Originally posted by AGateFan
                              BTW can anyone here really see Peter DeLuise\Joseph Mallozzi\Martin Wood and the rest with some deep dark religous\policital agenda? Well Joe does have the ice cream agenda and someone certainly is in the Jell-O companies pocket and there was the whole pineapple conspiracy, but other then that Im not seeing it.
                              PDL is the pineapple guy, so Wood must be the jello freak. I fear the day their dark agenda is reached and the world is exposde to pineapple ice cream flavored jello.


                              a time to mourn

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