Doubt?

[waywardflf]

Reading about the theories about the Ori, their motives, and the plague in TPTB, I wonder if it all comes back to the question "Why do the Ori want to be worshipped as gods?"

Is it perhaps a wacky Stargate spin on Descartes' "I think, therefore I am"?...

"You believe, therefore we are."

In the Stargate universe, the Goa'uld live as parasites, the Wraith feed on life energy...what if the Orii 'live' on the worship or belief of their...followers?

It would be an explanation for the interminable worship rituals on the Alteran world. From the limited view we've had of the actual Orii so far, it/they had to possess a body to speak or act. The possession appears to leave its mark: glassy eyes, a sickly complexion, and intricate cicatrice. The Ascended Ancients we've seen to date can take human form in appearance or 'come back' completely; what if the Orii can't? All the charm of the Goa'uld and the gastronomic preferences of the Wraith, wrapped up in a fiery package.

When the Prior came through to the SGC, why didn't the Prior/Orii spread the plague seen in TPTB? It might have been just a fact-finding trip, but what if there has to be doubt or willingness to listen before the Orii can begin to become established? In TPTB, Daniel, Vala, and Teal'c each have experience enough that they *know* that the Orii arent gods. But Mitchell? he doesn't yet have the direct experience to measure against.

So, maybe doubt really *will* do you in, and unshakable faith in what you know will save you. And the Orii...maybe they are because their victims believe.

[Qasim]

That has been intimated at when someone said the Orii are as strong as the faith of their followers

[Deputy-Assistant-Second-Prime]

Or maybe they're just really bored what with facing eternity and all.

Okay, I like your explanation better. In fact, I tend to agree. It will be interesting to see what justification the writers have decided on. Apparently, it's going to be really important, because they've already brought up the question twice.

[AGateFan]

So what your saying is Daniel, Vala and Teal'c didn’t get sick because they knew without doubt, due to personal experience, that the Ori are not Gods. And everyone who thought they were Gods or weren’t absolutly positive one way or another got sick..... You know I was wondering why the first guy to get sick was the guy that was actually on the Priors side. Your theory would kind of explain that.

So the Ori have to physically kill anyone that don't believe because their other "powers" wont work on them. So the solution that leads to victory is simply "believe beyond a doubt that they are not gods". But that brings up a practical problem. How does one have no doubts? You can tell yourself it’s all a load of crp but you still might believe deep down inside. Like the old Star Trek ep with the O'K coral. Those who believed or even had a hint of doubt that the bullets were real would die; those who had no doubts that the bullets were fake were immune.

I like it, sure others will just be mad because Stargate stole from Trek. Of course none of this explains Why the Ori need us to worship them. On that front I like the idea that they are just another form of Life Force Parasite (stealing from Atlantis and old SG-1, I know). Except these parasites find it easier if people just willingly give up the life force by concentrated meditation on them then by sucking it out of their chest..

Edit: Actually, I think Joe mentioned he played D&D... didnt the gods in D&D get stronger with the more worshipers they had. Maybe they stole the idea from there.

[Lightning]

waywardflf that is the best reasno for their demand to be worshipped I've heard so far. Admittedly I could not think of any reason why they need to but yours would certainly fit

[waywardflf]

That has been intimated at when someone said the Orii are as strong as the faith of their followers

I wonder what "faith" means when it comes to the Orii? We've seen the abject followers, Priors, and Doci. All the talk of Origin and the secrets of the Universe aside, what's in it for the 'faithful'? Possession, a whole undead complexion thing, and a funky staff.

If the Orii really are as strong as the faith of their followers, then their business model needs serious work. I mean, the Priors and Doci would be expected to be stronger believers than your average Joe Alteran, and with "believe or die" to back them up, how come there weren't more Priors and Doci? Maybe the P and D become useful conduits and messengers but don't fulfill the same need as the plain old Joe Alterans.

[waywardflf]

So the Ori have to physically kill anyone that don't believe because their other "powers" wont work on them. So the solution that leads to victory is simply "believe beyond a doubt that they are not gods". But that brings up a practical problem. How does one have no doubts? ...snip...
Edit: Actually, I think Joe mentioned he played D&D... didnt the gods in D&D get stronger with the more worshipers they had. Maybe they stole the idea from there.

I'm afraid I'm not versed in D&D, so dunno on that front.

I think the belief thing is the foot-in-the-door, so to speak. If a Prior throws a rock and bonks you on the head, it would probably hurt. Actually...have we seen the Priors physically handle or manipulate anything other than a staff? Raise an army of Orii warriors, send them in ships, and their weapons would probably hurt. But the latter half of "believe or die" probably wouldn't be the desired outcome, if doubt/worship keeps the Orii in existence.

As for how one has no doubts, beyond *knowing* that the Orii can't be gods? Wouldn't have to be Star Trek--Stargate could steal from itself. What if you couldn't/didn't remember that you thought the Orii might be gods?

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

Maybe the Ori are just plain old avaricious, like old men who live in poverty but hoard millions of dollars in a secret room.

Or maybe they are all like Vala - the whole species - only without a sense of fashion or humor.

[the fifth man]

Gotta admit,Waywardflf, you pose an interesting theory. Should be cool to see if that's the direction tptb take with our new enemy.

[gopher65]

In Discworld (which *I command you* to read ) it is the same way. Gods only exist if they have worshipers. When the believers of a god no longer believe the god disappears. There are actually 2 entire discworld novels about the subject. "Small Gods" and "Monsterous Regiment". Small Gods is one of my favorite books.

[waywardflf]

In Discworld (which *I command you* to read ) it is the same way. Gods only exist if they have worshipers. When the believers of a god no longer believe the god disappears. There are actually 2 entire discworld novels about the subject. "Small Gods" and "Monsterous Regiment". Small Gods is one of my favorite books.

Thanks for the suggestions. I've added those to my Audible wish list.

Well, at least you didn't say "read these or die" ... or "these aren't the droids you're looking for..."

[JanusAncient]

It does fit, but if this is the case, would that make the Ori something other than human, something more akin to a Goa'uld, or a Wraith, this is very interesting, can't waith to discover the truth.

[Jonzey]

I don't think that's it. See, in Origin they didn't seem to have any problems from a lack of worshippers. Besides, they potentially have the entire universe to find worshippers in (I'm sure they have the ability to terraform planets and create life). The only reason the Milky Way (Our galaxy has a really lame name!) was left alone was because the ancients shielded it from them (I'm guessing they are doing the same to Atlantis). So I'm sure they're not just looking for more worshippers just to get an ego boost. I'm guessing it's something much more sinister.

[Tok'Ra Hostess]

In Discworld (which *I command you* to read ) it is the same way. Gods only exist if they have worshipers. When the believers of a god no longer believe the god disappears. There are actually 2 entire discworld novels about the subject. "Small Gods" and "Monsterous Regiment". Small Gods is one of my favorite books.

The first time I saw the Ori city and then the Prior goes and calls it the city of Celesta I thought of Cori Celesti.

Ori Celesta... Cori Celesti... hummm....

Hey, maybe they need worshippers to fight the Ice Giants.

[Qasim]

The first time I saw the Ori city and then the Prior goes and calls it the city of Celesta I thought of Cori Celesti.

Ori Celesta... Cori Celesti... hummm....

Hey, maybe they need worshippers to fight the Ice Giants.

People who havent read the book have no idea what your talking about