How to make us love characters

[Katerine]

I've noticed a trend in TV shows in general, where the show begins with a single (however large) group of people who interact in various combinations, and the plots largely center around the premise of the show. Then, gradually, the characters start to separate until they exist only in their own little bubbles, and the plots start to center around one character or pairing at a time, pushing all other characters to the background.

The tendancy for characters and pairings to split off until they only exist in their own little bubble isn't as pronounced in Stargate as it was in, say, ER, but I have noticed that the Stargate writers have been doing a lot of character-centric shows, where they push the rest of the team to the background. Apparently, this is in an attempt to make us care for those characters more.

That isn't the way to do it. At least not for me.

I love Daniel. I love Daniel because of the way he saw through his own grief and reached out to Jack in CotG. For the way he stood up for Teal'c in Cor'ai. For the so-natural way he consoled Sam in Singularity, and the way it looked like it was something he could have done at any time. For the little dance he does when he finds something new. For the way he and Jack speak in unison. For the snarky debates. For the way he's usually the voice of ethics. For the compassion in his eyes whenever somebody else is hurting.

I love Jack. I love Jack because of the way he took Daniel in in CotG. For the simple invitation to Teal'c, and the way he stood up for Teal'c in The Enemy Within, and for the way he's helped Teal'c fit in ever since. For the fond exasperation in his manner when Teal'c gets the "Jaffa revenge thing," or when Daniel wanders off, or when Sam or Daniel start talking and talking and talking with every expectation that Jack will know what they're talking about. For the fact that his #1 priority is very obviously always to get his team home safe. For the way he and Daniel speak in unison. For the little looks of concern whenever a member of their team is hurting. For the incredibly easy way in which he relates to children. For the snarkiness and the fun.

I really like Sam. I like Sam because of the light in her eyes when she and Daniel are feeding ideas off each other in CotG. For the way she stood up to a superior officer without crossing the line to insubordination in CotG. For the practical, pragmatic way she consoled Daniel in The Gamekeeper by trying to bring him back to the present, and for her cringe each time the coverstone fell. For the way she worked nonstop to get Teal'c back in 48 hours. For the way she worked through illness to get Daniel back in Crystal Skull. For the delighted grin on her face whenever she's discussing one of her new experiments. For the way she always begins her explanations assuming that Jack knows everything she knows, then instantly tones down the science-speak when she gets a look from him. For her dedication to her work and her friends.

I really like Teal'c. I like Teal'c for the compassion in his eyes when he says, "Your death cannot help her," in CotG. For the logic and precision in his speech. For the subtle irony and smugness that is Teal'c-humor. For the clear respect he shows for Jack and General Hammond, and the totally different (but not diminished) type of respect he shows for Sam and Daniel. For the way he doesn't reach out to friends, but is always simply there in case he's needed.

It's the little things that make me love the characters. Not the big, grand character-centric eps.

This isn't to say that character-centric eps should be done away with entirely - just that they aren't the basis for making us love a character or pairing, and never will be. And when the writers try to make it that, it's inevitable that they will not only fail, but push people away from that character/pairing.

I like Crystal Skull, for example, and I enjoyed Daniel in that ep - but if the writers tried to make me love Daniel more by writing more eps like Crystal Skull, they'd end up making me care less about him. (It would, however, be a good way to make me care more about Sam and Teal'c, since they worked so hard to get Daniel back). Because that ep is so Daniel-centric, that it doesn't have room for the best thing about Daniel, which is of course the compassion he shows for others.

What do you think? Agree? Disagree? Don't get what I'm saying at all? (Some days I'm better at explaining things than others )

[UhSir]

Very nice! I get what you are saying.

Just a quick note about the character-centric eps: They can and should be written to include everyone possible. It is the best way to establish an even deeper bond between the team.

[Osiris-RA]

ExATCLY! It's the LITTLE things that matter! Not how many purple hearts they've earned! *cough*Mitchell*cough* Very well put! A green deserving post!

[Katerine]

Just a few quick follow-up discussion questions:

What are the little things about the characters (any characters, SG1 or SGA) that you like? Are they pretty much the same things? What do you think of character-centric eps in general?

Re that last one: I like Daniel-centric eps, mostly the ones in the later seasons, largely because they happened *after* I'd already fallen in love with the character. Those eps didn't make me care about Daniel any more than I did already, though, which is my point. Except in the case of something like Absolute Power, where his character evolved over the course of the episode. But even then, I cared about the angst because I cared about Daniel, not the other way around, and it wasn't the angst that got me to care for him more - it was his willingness to learn the lesson Shifu had to teach.

But it's really when the characters are in supporting roles that I fall in love with them. Mentioned this before, but when I think of the person who I loved the most in The Gamekeeper, I don't think of Daniel so much, and I certainly don't think of Jack - I think of Sam. Because of her cringe each time the coverstone fell, and her pragmatic approach to attempting to help Daniel.

[Madeleine]

If we're talking about the heroes / goodies in a show then for me the way to get me to like them is to make them *not perfect*. They need flaws. More than that, the flaws need to be recognised as such by other characters. Nothing is more irritating than a promising character who is decent but tends towards selfishness / impatience or some other imperfection and who causes problems for the others because of this fault, and yet the others all fete the character as if they were the golden child who could do no wrong.

Take everyone on BSG for instance. Most of them are good guys, and on the same side, but not one has gone more than a few eps without being bawled out by a colleague for something they've done wrong. It's more interesting that way.

I like to see how characters cope with their own shortcomings and failings, and what they do to rectify their mistakes, or how they react when they see that they've fouled up. I don't see as much as I'd like on Stargate. It's not a big deal, it doesn't spoil the show for me or anything, but sometimes I feel that a story would have been improved by a single line of critical comment from Hammond or jack.

[Katerine]

Several excellent comments, but I'll just address one of them:

I like to see how characters cope with their own shortcomings and failings, and what they do to rectify their mistakes, or how they react when they see that they've fouled up. I don't see as much as I'd like on Stargate. It's not a big deal, it doesn't spoil the show for me or anything, but sometimes I feel that a story would have been improved by a single line of critical comment from Hammond or jack.

I think a lot of this just has to do with the fact that Stargate is SciFi, not technically drama. The issues that arise are usually caused externally, leaving the heroes to have to deal with it.

But you're right - one of my favorite plot devices is to have a problem caused by one of the main characters, with rest of the characters having to cope. The only example I can think of offhand is Teal'c's "revenge thing" in Exodus - it's very rare (though not unheard of) for me to like a Teal'c plotline so much (love the character, but just can't get into the Teal'c-centric plotlines usually), and I think it was largely the fact that it was Teal'c causing the problem just by being Teal'c. It was a very nice change of pace. And I loved Jack's reaction to the revenge thing - the frustration from the fact that there was absolutely nothing he could do to change Teal'c's mind.

[CeeKay Sheppard]

What are the little things about the characters (any characters, SG1 or SGA) that you like?

John Sheppard: I love his compassion for his people; he never leaves a teammate behind, and you can tell how Ford being missing is tearing him up inside. I love the banter between him and McKay. I love the way he puts up a tough façade, but sometimes lets his sensitive side show. I love the way he puts his own morals ahead of his orders and regulations. I love the way he puts others' lives ahead of his own; he's always the one who hangs back and covers the team as they retreat through the Stargate.

[NotANumber]

I prefer seeing the team together as much as possible, but episodes where a single character does his/her own thing can be interesting because you'd expect people to have interests outside of the workplace. That being said though, it's a pity we don't get many chances to see the team together off-base where they don't have to worry about saving the world. I really love the scene in Lost City where they're all sitting in Jack's house talking about the relationship between C. Montgomery Burns and the Goa'uld. Or when Jack, Sam and Daniel go out for something to eat in Upgrades.

Or the scene at the end of Threads where they all go fishing together. That's one of my favourite episodes, becuase they all have their own things going on - Daniel and Oma and the issue of Ascension; Teal'c and Bra'tac helping to build the new Jaffa Nation, and the fight to protect Dakara; Sam trying to deal with her father's condition; Jack and the advice he gets on his personal relationships. The episode is character-driven, as opposed to the plot coming from an external source, and each character gets their own piece of the spotlight.

[startrekempress]

If we're talking about the heroes / goodies in a show then for me the way to get me to like them is to make them *not perfect*. They need flaws. More than that, the flaws need to be recognised as such by other characters. Nothing is more irritating than a promising character who is decent but tends towards selfishness / impatience or some other imperfection and who causes problems for the others because of this fault, and yet the others all fete the character as if they were the golden child who could do no wrong.

Kind of like how I explained to my mum why I like Vala: she's not *good*. I used to watch TNG, and the characters there are perfect. I remember reading somewhere that Roddenberry thought that in 200 years people would have evolved past interpersonal conflicts, and I remember thinking 'yeah right'. People disagree. It happens. It may suck sometimes, but it does happen. I can't stand characters agreeing all the time unless that's an essential trait of one character in particular. Make characters not get along sometimes, for crying out loud. Only makes them all the more real to me.

~Sarah

[NotANumber]

Kind of like how I explained to my mum why I like Vala: she's not *good*. I used to watch TNG, and the characters there are perfect. I remember reading somewhere that Roddenberry thought that in 200 years people would have evolved past interpersonal conflicts, and I remember thinking 'yeah right'.

This is what was great about DS9, it put all the nails in the coffin and then single-handedly buried Roddenberry's vision of Star Trek. Pity though that it's now considered the b*****d child of the Trek universe, apparently Berman and Braga hate it.

[startrekempress]

This is what was great about DS9, it put all the nails in the coffin and then single-handedly buried Roddenberry's vision of Star Trek. Pity though that it's now considered the b*****d child of the Trek universe, apparently Berman and Braga hate it.

Well, frankly, I have very little opinion of what they think, seeing as they don't care about the fans at all and they wrote all the horrible characterizations that contributed to the demise of the franchise altogether. And I love DS9.

But to keep this OT . . . I think Vala serves the same purpose as Quark did (and the Ferengi in general) . . . to point out that there will always be people entirely out for themselves, not caring about others and doing whatever it takes. While I would hate to see a whole show like that ::cough::networksitcoms::cough::, in moderation it makes an excellent contribution to a good show, and keeps it all in balance while heightening realism. But somehow you end up liking those people anyway.

~Sarah

[1DanielForMe]

Katerine, I hear you, and then some.
I love Daniel more than anything, and for the record, in the end, I don't give a fig about his looks, when it comes down, that's just the vessel, not the source, his true beauty comes from that amazing soul, that's Daniel, and as long as he continues to be the most beautiful soul (which of course he will), I will continue to love him.

[Frostfox]

Katerine, I hear you, and then some.
I love Daniel more than anything, and for the record, in the end, I don't give a fig about his looks, when it comes down, that's just the vessel, not the source, his true beauty comes from that amazing soul, that's Daniel, and as long as he continues to be the most beautiful soul (which of course he will), I will continue to love him.

I find Daniel far more attractive than MS (and he's gorgeous).

I like episodes which slide in good characterisation, it doesn't need to be the focus of the episode, little character scenes can be as affective as a whole episode when done well. I'm thinking Jack and the little girl Merrin or Sam and Cassie in the bunker when they are sending her to get blown up or Daniel and his grandad in Crystal Skull or any number of scenes between Teal'c and his son, particularly when he was younger.

FF, edited to add, another huge DS9 fan here.

[dark_faith]

I so agree with this thread!

When I look at Atlantis season 2 and all the episodes Sheppard or Mckay centred, it drives me crazy. Now I just expect to watch an episode where they won't be there!

Nothing is more irritating than a promising character who is decent but tends towards selfishness / impatience or some other imperfection and who causes problems for the others because of this fault, and yet the others all fete the character as if they were the golden child who could do no wrong.

Exactly what I feel with Sheppard, I like the idea that he is not perfect but why don't the others see it? Why weir doesn't kick his ass once in a while when he behaves like a jerk? The lack of interaction between the characters, the lack of continuity in Atlantis, prevent the characters from looking real. And that's a real shame.

[1DanielForMe]

Well, I see the Atlantis characters (and for the record, the SG-1 characters) as real no matter how they interact, but it would be nice to see more of the inner workings and tension between them, how the characters react and grow with one another is definitely not as notable in Atlantis, at least in my opinion, and I would say this is the factor which keeps me from counting any episodes of the show with the likes of SG-1 masterpieces such as (to name just a few) The Torment Of Tantalus, Cold Lazarus, and Cor-ai.

I find Daniel far more attractive than MS (and he's gorgeous).

Indeed, I'm not attracted to Michael at all! (To be sure, though, he certainly is a way cool guy.)