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Rhyus
June 27th, 2004, 01:14 PM
While it might be a good promotion for Jack, for the show, I think it will have lost one of its major elements. Jack's character is a gung-ho, 'dumb', comical type of guy. He is one of the major elements of the show that keeps it going, because you have his comical attitude getting in the way of Carter's and Jackson's 'smartness' that does kinda drag the show along when they start doing the techno-babble stuff. Just seeing Jack's face when they start babbling as well as his comments brings a laugh to me. Now, with him being taken out of the main group, we aren't going to see this effect very often, basically only in briefings and other side shots in SGC. Its not going to be the same show, as it will be more technical than comical/action packed. The team had a really good mix with Jack, Daniel, Sam and T'ealc. Jack was comical, Jack and T'ealc was the action and Sam and Daniel were the smarts and level headed thinkers of the team. And to remove Hammond from the show is a real big kicker. He was the level-headed, cool-headed, non-emotional decision maker that made all the right moves. With Jack taking over, he will not have that kind of decision making, as it will more be break out the nukes and will allow his emotions to make most of his decisions.

Elwe Singollo
June 27th, 2004, 03:19 PM
I do have a comment about your whole post in general, but its the last part about Jacks emotions i really want to comment on right now. The way Hammond operated the SGC was with emotions as well, even when he didn't have the back up he needed from the president, he himself went through the gate and did the job himself, saving SG1 and the other teams. I think Jack would do the same job, throughout the years, yes they have only showed the sides that they wanted us to see, but i think now Jack will think more leveled, but if he didn't react the sameway he has always been throughout the years, they would have died a long time ago. Although i do understand theres a lot of changes and stuff, the show will probably still be the same SG1 it always has been, with things removed and added. But yes, we haven't seen Jack in charge of the SGC yet, so i'm just speculating :)

Madeleine
June 27th, 2004, 07:58 PM
Jack's character is a gung-ho, 'dumb', comical type of guy.

He didn't used to be stupid, ever. He used to be very sharp, always on the ball, just rather sarcastic and witty. I thought that was great.

I don't find 'dumb' to be comical anyway. *Witty* makes me laugh, *dumb* makes me wonder what the heck is going on with this chap who's supposed to be saving the Earth etc.

I'm not a fan of people 'playing dumb' when they're actually pretty bright. Jack has to be pretty bright, or there's no way he could be a colonel. I welcome the promotion to General, it makes me hope that Jack will be more like the old Jack who used to take things seriously and not pretend to be a complete idiot for no reason.

madfrenchie
June 27th, 2004, 11:04 PM
I just hope the writers don't over-evolve his character. He is definately the take-charge, immediate action sort of guy and though he'll have to make those types of important decisions as general I can't imagine him ever conforming to a desk job. My other concern is we will see less of the original team together. We're loosing Hammond and that sucks in itself. Anderson's shooting time might be reduced but if the show becomes too focused on just the remainding three his absence (both from the set and from the team) will be accutely noticed. His witty sarcasm is a necessary dynamic.

tara3583
June 28th, 2004, 11:34 AM
I wonder if his witty sarcasm will change when
he is left behind when sg1 goes through the gate.
He hides behind that witty mask so well that i
think it would be great to see behind it and
peek into the real O'neill, a good move putting
him in charge of the SGC.

Erik Pasternak
June 28th, 2004, 12:03 PM
Possible "New Order" SPOILERS
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His personality is not going to change once he takes over the SGC. The personality of Colonel O'Neill is based off Richard Dean Anderson's personality and he is a very funny, witty guy. Plus, if anyone watched that clip from the Late Late Show with Craig Kilborn, you could see Jack being his old self.

Elwe Singollo
June 28th, 2004, 01:53 PM
I think thats before he is promoted, right? (Talking about the clip :)) From the looks of it, i think it was New Order 2, but thats just a guess.

Erik Pasternak
June 28th, 2004, 02:56 PM
I think thats before he is promoted, right? (Talking about the clip :)) From the looks of it, i think it was New Order 2, but thats just a guess.
Yeah, I think it was from before he was promoted too, but it just seems to me that he'll stay the same. The clip from Conan also seems very "O'Neill-ish"

Torley
June 28th, 2004, 03:09 PM
I'd like to see Jack wear Simpsons attire off-duty in just ONE episode! That would be hilarious. Or maybe a Homer bobblehead on his desktop while he's doing desk work.

Erik Pasternak
June 28th, 2004, 03:15 PM
I'd like to see Jack wear Simpsons attire off-duty in just ONE episode! That would be hilarious. Or maybe a Homer bobblehead on his desktop while he's doing desk work.
Me too, but wouldn't the producers of the Simpsons have to approve that? I'm sure they would, but it could be that there are too many legalities involved. Does anyone know for sure?

Rhyus
June 28th, 2004, 07:10 PM
Ok, maybe 'dumb' wasn't the correct word, but, he does 'act' like he doesn't know anything, even if he does. I forgot the episode, but, the scene was Sam, Jack and Hammond. Sam was trying to explain something and Jack jumped in and explained the workings of the wormhole, which, Sam said that he was right about. For the rest of the scene, each time you saw Jack, he kept saying, "I was right." If my memory serves me right, I think it was Red Sky from 5th season. Yes, I know Jack isn't stupid, as he can pilot jet fighters along with the X302. And, he has even had a chance at piloting a cargo ship and I think he even had a turn at a mothership once. And to be able to pilot any of those craft, you have to have brains. But, when I was talking about being 'dumb', I was talking about all those times that Sam or even Daniel starts explaining things in real detail and you see Jack and it looks like their words are hurting his brain. But, in the end, Jack knows exactly what is happening. But, with him taking over as General of SGC, either they are going to focus more on doing base shows or they are going to do the missions without Jack present for most of them and it is going to not be as good. I have a feeling that things are going to become more techno-babble or not as gung-ho as before with Jack in charge of SG-1.

Chirp
June 28th, 2004, 07:42 PM
Not if they report in as they are suppose to. just cause you don't see him don't mean you can't here him. he can do that over the phone. Hammon did it all the time. Here you but don't see him.

Elwe Singollo
June 28th, 2004, 09:07 PM
According to spoilers, it sure seems like they are going to first deal with Jack getting comfortable in his brand new chair, with the handy dandy red phone :) But i'm going to have to see the episodes first before i can judge :)

Erik Pasternak
June 28th, 2004, 09:29 PM
But i'm going to have to see the episodes first before i can judge :)
Without a doubt Miguel (if that's your real name), while it's all right to speculate, it really bugs me when people nitpick things with out even seeing them There is actually an Atlantis nitpicker thread over in the Atlantis forum. It makes no sense. So, let's all wait tell July 9th, after "New Order" premieres, before we judge.[

Elwe Singollo
June 28th, 2004, 09:42 PM
People can speculate and guess, but i think what the person is doing is gathering the past references to Jack's character being 'not to smart', and even said a thing about 'dumbness', but we haven't seen Jack as leader of SGC yet, which is a big change to what he used to be doing, well maybe not 'big', since he was the leader of SG1.

Zife
June 28th, 2004, 10:18 PM
Hey guys, new here.
I was on imdb, and noticed that Sam's gonna be promoted to Lt. Colonel this season, maybe in the first episode. I don't know if the info was posted yet, just something that I picked up.

Elwe Singollo
June 28th, 2004, 10:51 PM
Yes, hehe, according to many spoilers, there will be more than one promotion :)

shockwave
June 29th, 2004, 01:53 AM
spoilers


the first thing general jack will do, is promote carter to Lt. Colonel

Chirp
July 4th, 2004, 03:49 PM
Can Gen. Jack O'Niell do that? just promote Sam with out a test. I thought that you are reqwired to take test every so often as to get promoted. I think!!! :rolleyes: How do Teal'c and Daniel get promoted they deserve a promotion too, or do they just get raises? Is Teal'c promotion alowing him to live off base? :eek: :D

Ugly Pig
July 4th, 2004, 03:53 PM
How do Teal'c and Daniel get promoted they deserve a promotion too, or do they just get raises?
Considering they're not in the military, it'd be kinda hard to promote them. Of course, Teal'c has already had the highest rank among Jaffa. :)

DarkQuee1
July 4th, 2004, 05:17 PM
Ok, maybe 'dumb' wasn't the correct word, but, he does 'act' like he doesn't know anything, even if he does. I forgot the episode, but, the scene was Sam, Jack and Hammond. Sam was trying to explain something and Jack jumped in and explained the workings of the wormhole, which, Sam said that he was right about. For the rest of the scene, each time you saw Jack, he kept saying, "I was right." If my memory serves me right, I think it was Red Sky from 5th season. Yes, I know Jack isn't stupid, as he can pilot jet fighters along with the X302. And, he has even had a chance at piloting a cargo ship and I think he even had a turn at a mothership once. And to be able to pilot any of those craft, you have to have brains. But, when I was talking about being 'dumb', I was talking about all those times that Sam or even Daniel starts explaining things in real detail and you see Jack and it looks like their words are hurting his brain. But, in the end, Jack knows exactly what is happening. But, with him taking over as General of SGC, either they are going to focus more on doing base shows or they are going to do the missions without Jack present for most of them and it is going to not be as good. I have a feeling that things are going to become more techno-babble or not as gung-ho as before with Jack in charge of SG-1.


First things first: in that episode, Jack says "I was right" (after his initial question to her: "I was right?" as in, "You really mean I got that right?") a grand total of twice.

As to Jack's intelligence: (THIS IS SEASON 8 BUT THEY AREN'T SPOILERS FOR ANY EPS ) SOLUTIONS has posted some photographs from Gen. O'Neill's office. They show certificates that, in addition to showing that Jack completed the Air Commando Operations Course and also received a certificate for excellence for special operations under the Space Systems Command, Jack graduated from the AF Academy as a 2nd Looey having achieved academic excellence in--wait for it--military science AND engineering. Jack has an engineering degree!

And he reads National Geographic--chock full of archaeology, astronomy, paleontology, anthropology and geography.

Has he been yanking everyone's chain or what??

J.

JDakkon
July 4th, 2004, 09:42 PM
How do Teal'c and Daniel get promoted they deserve a promotion too, or do they just get raises? Is Teal'c promotion alowing him to live off base?

If really want to think about it, Daniel works for sub-division of the military, like the private sector. Daniel will most likely get a raise. As for Teal'c...

POSSIBLE SPOILER FOR SEASON 8 (just highlight in the space)

Well in Affinity in Season 8, O'Neil gives Teal'c the opportunity to live off the base and Teal'c take up the opportunity to do it. I like always those episodes where it surrounds Teal'c trying to fit on Earth. We will see what happens.

I could be wrong though
I think that would answer your question.

catscan
July 4th, 2004, 11:16 PM
He's smart, but he's not Daniel and Sam smart. There's a difference. If all of the characters were on Sam and Daniel's level of understanding, there'd be no point in explaining things, so that we the watchers would understand.

I have a masters degree in Forestry, but when my best friend goes off on an tangent about astronomy, I'm lost. Does that make me dumb, because I need laymans terms for an area I've no clue about?

Watch Carter actually explain something to him, and he grasps it, very quickly, when it's explained to him in a way he understands it.

Anubis
July 4th, 2004, 11:20 PM
Totally right. You can't have everyone at the Danile and Sam level of understanding because simply they'd all know too much and watching the show you do actually learn a but about all these science things!

Scruff
July 5th, 2004, 01:02 PM
Rank comes with time in grade. Usually after a set period of time, a person is eligible for promotion. Of course, in some instances there must be a slot open in the next rank. I'm not absolutely sure how it works for officers, but enlisted ranks must complete required courses to be "promotable". Physical fitness and weapons marksmanship must be completed and passed as well.

Sicarius
July 5th, 2004, 02:50 PM
Has he been yanking everyone's chain or what??

I think part of Jack's "Hunh?"s and "What?"s is RDA having fun with the character, but I also think it is a plot device.

Carter says a lot of stuff that would go over the heads of the general audience, but in having Jack always need a simpler explanation, the audience, too, gets that layman's terms explanation and can keep up with the story.

Selmak
July 8th, 2004, 08:34 PM
I think he will be a gung-ho, 'dumb', comical type general.

Torley
July 8th, 2004, 09:32 PM
Yeah, on Stargate, the characters ACTUALLY reflect what the viewer is thinking. Sometimes the viewer thinks to himself or herself, "this villain is really annoying, I wouldn't be so honorable like the hero -- I'd mouth off and choke the SOB!" and suuure enough, Jack O'Neill does it a few moments later! That's one of my FAVE things about the show, that it doesn't treat the viewer as a dummy. Yasureyabetcha :D

Elmseeker
July 8th, 2004, 10:10 PM
While it might be a good promotion for Jack, for the show, I think it will have lost one of its major elements. Jack's character is a gung-ho, 'dumb', comical type of guy.I don't know if 'dumb' is the right word but I certainly wouldn't want him in charge of an RL SGC, he is a GREAT Field Commander but I don't think he has the personality it takes to run a project like the SGC. For one it takes some skills in diplomacy which Jack tends to lack. He CAN be diplomatic at times but let's face it for the most part he just doesn't care if we have allies or not. He'd just as soon steal tech from our allies and alienate them as he would from the Goa'Uld...not the guy I want in charge, sorry...


POSSIBLE SPOILER WARNING!
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BTW, Did anyone else notice that Sam is ALSO getting a promotion!?
As I watched Stargate To Atlantis while they were talking about Jack's promotion they also showed a picture of Sam standing with him after the promotion and she was wearing Silver Oak Leaf Clusters...that's Lt. Colonel, Majors were gold... :)

sarge
July 9th, 2004, 05:48 AM
Rank comes with time in grade. Usually after a set period of time, a person is eligible for promotion. Of course, in some instances there must be a slot open in the next rank. I'm not absolutely sure how it works for officers, but enlisted ranks must complete required courses to be "promotable". Physical fitness and weapons marksmanship must be completed and passed as well.

Air Force promotions are significantly different then the other branches (especially for enlisted), it tends to be much harder to get promoted in the Air Force (trust me :( ). In the Air Force officers must have completed all required “Professional Military Education (PME)” and appropriate carrier field (AFSC) training and have a slot open to be promoted. Above a certain level (MAJOR I think) they also need approval of congress and the President (although this is usually a formality…) Daniel is probably a DOD civilian (GS/GM or SES) their pay is based on the grade (i.e. job) and Steps within the grade for time in service etc…if you’re lucky you get a bonus if you’re in a critically manned field (the IT bonus is around $6,000) It would be fairly easy for Daniel to get promoted either by steps of reclassifying his job at a higher pay grade.

thanks for letting me ramble..... :o

Ocelot
July 9th, 2004, 06:34 AM
Ha ha, I can see the day...."Give it up or we blow you up..." that's what he'll say.

Blue_Revan
July 9th, 2004, 04:30 PM
hes probibly going to play with his statues like in the lowdown.

override367
July 9th, 2004, 08:04 PM
I doubt Jack had much trouble getting Sam promoted, I mean he did just save the galaxy from the replicators.... AGAIN :D

As for tests, while I'm not in the Air Force, I would imagine playing a part in saving the world and galaxy from destruction multiple times would play a part in the decision for promotion :)

(they said in the episode the president himself certified her promotion btw)

kadosho
July 9th, 2004, 10:15 PM
I place a vote that Jack will hold his position, and responsibility very well.
Its a chance he's been finally given, and now he has many choices to make.
Even though with so many changes, he's still Jack, and fun as always.

STG-1
July 10th, 2004, 12:55 AM
Jack did not promote Sam. He had orders from the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the President telling him to do so. As for a "test" for a promotion... that's only for enlisted personnel, not officers. Officers are given promotions after selected by a promotions board and approved by the President.

Anubis
July 10th, 2004, 01:06 AM
Yeah, Sam just got promoted (again) because there wasn't a Colonel. Although she isn't Colonel yet

Sicarius
July 10th, 2004, 01:54 AM
hes probibly going to play with his statues like in the lowdown.

That brings to mind that scene from Space Balls when Lord Helmet is caught playing with his action figures. I can just see some important people from the Pentagon walking in on General Jack playing with some Simpsons dolls.

Anubis
July 10th, 2004, 01:59 AM
lol Maybe Jack will enjoy his little toys in his office

SG1TOM
July 11th, 2004, 12:09 AM
I too become a bit uneasy with Jack semingly always playing the dolt. I find myself constantly questioning how he EVER became a Colonel, let alone a General. And I agree with the previous poster....whitty is funny, stupid is not. There's too much siliness from Jack to be believable as an officer of ANY military.

Anubis
July 11th, 2004, 12:34 AM
But then again, it's not his knowledge that gets him there, it's his skills, training and field battle

Hohenzollern
July 11th, 2004, 12:34 AM
Perhaps Jack's seeming dumb is a conscious act? A "device" to get others offgaurd or reveal what they otherwise might not?

To seem more approachable? Notice how when the character has to, or is driven to, he is concise and makes things happen. He does cut to the chase, I like that about the character.

I did not know what to make of his comment of "All my life I have been sticking it to the man, now I am the man..."

Having been in the Military, not much man sticking opportunity there, and anything O-4 and above, you are the "man" or authority and have to go along to get along.

So was he monkey wrenching the works his entire career? he he he

Anubis
July 11th, 2004, 12:38 AM
Agreed. O'Neill certainly deserves his roles even though he isn't exactly 'smart'

Hohenzollern
July 11th, 2004, 12:41 AM
Also I did read that, intentional or otherwise, (most likely the former) O'Neill being General and not being in every episode; dovetails nicely with Anderson's reduced shooting schedule.

I think he has opted, logically, to spend more time with family, etc. The actor has a young or new child perhaps?

Anubis
July 11th, 2004, 12:43 AM
I agree. He has a young daughter that he wants to be around

jjj2046
July 11th, 2004, 10:10 AM
Can Gen. Jack O'Niell do that? just promote Sam with out a test. I thought that you are reqwired to take test every so often as to get promoted. I think!!! :rolleyes: How do Teal'c and Daniel get promoted they deserve a promotion too, or do they just get raises? Is Teal'c promotion alowing him to live off base? :eek: :D

Military promotions are based on evaluations/reviews. Given the secret nature of the Stargate program promotion of the military involved may not be like normal ones.

Teal'c and Daniel aren't in the military so promoting them isn't a consideration.

Anubis
July 11th, 2004, 10:16 AM
Yeah, it's based on your recommandation and reports written on you

Elwe Singollo
July 11th, 2004, 02:13 PM
Military promotions are based on evaluations/reviews. Given the secret nature of the Stargate program promotion of the military involved may not be like normal ones.

Teal'c and Daniel aren't in the military so promoting them isn't a consideration.Hehe

Daniel - Dr. Daniel Jackson, promoted to, SUPER Dr. Daniel Jackson, thinking of that makes me laugh.

Beatrice Otter
July 11th, 2004, 07:19 PM
Rank comes with time in grade. Usually after a set period of time, a person is eligible for promotion. Of course, in some instances there must be a slot open in the next rank. I'm not absolutely sure how it works for officers, but enlisted ranks must complete required courses to be "promotable". Physical fitness and weapons marksmanship must be completed and passed as well.

I could be wrong, but don't you need at least a Master's to get beyond the rank of Colonel? I know there are several institutions of higher learning run by the military for officers of the armed forces, but I can't name any off the top of my head.

aAnubiSs
July 11th, 2004, 07:21 PM
I could be wrong, but don't you need at least a Master's to get beyond the rank of Colonel? I know there are several institutions of higher learning run by the military for officers of the armed forces, but I can't name any off the top of my head.

Kindergarden?=)

sorry, couldn't resist :)

Chirp
July 13th, 2004, 08:33 PM
In my opinion Jack is the only one that is capable of leading the SGC. Thor is one who is willing to come and say hi, and can you come and save my universe, for me? (as a shimmering white light fills his office and disappears in front of Danny, Sam and Teal'c)Ok who whats the set this time? "says Danny" to Sam and Teal'c. Sorry peps had to say that. Its just a Thor thing, that I have trobble with every once in a while. Its more of a hot set if you ask me. Jack will be able to pull alot of things out of his hat sorta speek. Maybe he will have a 8 Ball on his desks. By the way has any one notist, that with Jack, in Dr. Weirs office and when he was talking to Daniel, Sam and Teal'c that he was not fidgiting with anything. Dosn't that seen a little out of place with Jack? He looked like he was in his own world or conscentating on something that was not there. Did anyone else think that was different? :eek: