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GateWorld
April 27th, 2004, 10:32 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s3/318.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/graphics/318.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#666666">DISCUSS ...</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0066BF"><B>SHADES OF GREY</B></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 318</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
O'Neill steals technology from the Tollan, and is forced to leave the Stargate program. Maybourne offers an intriguing proposal.

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Major Tyler
May 9th, 2004, 02:34 AM
I personally think that the NID's taking technology and/or reverse-enginnering would be a necessary evil in order to protect Earth. I don't think they should compromise other worlds, but being more...proactive about acquiring technology is a sound policy. We may not like it, but it might be our only hope.

Anyone else concur?

Major Clanger
May 9th, 2004, 03:43 AM
Anyone else concur?
Me!! ME!! MEEEEEE!

Not that I personally think it's a Good Thing. But I'm 99.9% certain that we would be doing that. In fact I'm 100% certain. It's a pity that we don't see more about those rogue teams. (apart from it would most probably mean more Harry, which is good in my book)

I loved Makepeace. I hate the way he went from apparent good egg, and good Colonel, to absolute rogue with no redeeming features in the blink of an eye. And what about the others? Death row?

That really is a waste of knowledge, IMO.

Mr Prophet
May 9th, 2004, 04:42 AM
I loved Makepeace. I hate the way he went from apparent good egg, and good Colonel, to absolute rogue with no redeeming features in the blink of an eye. And what about the others? Death row?


I think there was a real loss in not having Makepeace back at all. Having actually saved SG-1's collective hash a couple of times, he should have got more of a send-off than: "Ha ha, and now to the gas chamber with ye!"

Thinks: What happened to Makepeace given my fanfic premise that Maybourne got his team out of jail and offworld through the Russian Gate, then lost them?

Major Clanger
May 9th, 2004, 07:17 AM
Thinks: What happened to Makepeace given my fanfic premise that Maybourne got his team out of jail and offworld through the Russian Gate, then lost them?I'm patiently waiting for you to tell me.
;)
That is, if you do requests? If so, he deffo needs a girlfriend.
:D
(even a small, woolley pink one)

ETA: thanks, btw, he looks great!

Mr Prophet
May 9th, 2004, 07:34 AM
I'm patiently waiting for you to tell me.
;)
That is, if you do requests? If so, he deffo needs a girlfriend.
:D
(even a small, woolley pink one)

ETA: thanks, btw, he looks great!

I was just happy to find that the Clanger image I had on my machine was a) Major Clanger and b) in a scary pose!

Makepeace may turn up eventually - probably as a free agent, working with the remnants of the rogue team; a mercenary, but a more honourable one than Tobias - but for the moment RL is getting in the way of fic writing. Once I finish The Scourge I'm going back to my ninjas; then maybe a Nazis and monsters effort (modern day or SG-1's grandparents; could go either way).

After that there's just thirty odd SG-1 fics and another twenty-one for SG-7 and my lists are cleared for requests.

SeaBee
May 27th, 2004, 12:43 PM
IMO it was quite a good ep., but I think Maybourne would have been way too suspicious to have been taken in by O'Neill suddenly turning rogue. Nor would he have shown his hand so quickly.

Sicarius
May 28th, 2004, 12:20 AM
IMO it was quite a good ep., but I think Maybourne would have been way too suspicious to have been taken in by O'Neill suddenly turning rogue. Nor would he have shown his hand so quickly.

I see where you're coming from, though I can also see how someone who didn't know Jack that well (I believe he and Maybourne only had a couple of run-ins by this point in the series) could mistake his mouthiness and sort of irreverence toward authority as synonymous with, ah shall we say, moral ambiguity. =) At the very least, we've all seen instances where Jack's found the rules chaffing.

As for showing his hand quickly, some things are limited by the length of the episode (for instance, I thought swiping that Asgard invisibility device was too quick and easy, too).

KorbenDirewolf
May 28th, 2004, 08:26 PM
Hmm.. weren't the Asgard in on it all?

Mio
May 28th, 2004, 08:58 PM
I have a question.

Don't those invisibility thingys violate the protected planets treaty?

omnian
May 29th, 2004, 02:31 AM
I have a question.

Don't those invisibility thingys violate the protected planets treaty?

I think it was deliberately planted there as part of their plan....

KorbenDirewolf
May 29th, 2004, 07:05 PM
Was it ever stated that that planet was covered in the treaty? I can't quite recall if it was. But you'd think something like that would be a violation.

zombie8
June 24th, 2004, 06:08 PM
I think there was a real loss in not having Makepeace back at all. Having actually saved SG-1's collective hash a couple of times, he should have got more of a send-off than: "Ha ha, and now to the gas chamber with ye!"

Thinks: What happened to Makepeace given my fanfic premise that Maybourne got his team out of jail and offworld through the Russian Gate, then lost them?
I too have always thought "how bizzare" Makepeace is a hero at the beginning of season 3 and by the end he's a traitor!What the?? :S

marcus
June 28th, 2004, 07:52 AM
I just saw the episode and loved it.

As for the debate on whether we should be more agressive in acquiring technology, I think what the SGC did in this episode was correct. The Asgard, Tollen and Nox are all powerful allies and provided we had a strong enough allience with them they would be willing to help us defend ourselves if we were attacked. I would rather have this situation as opposed to some of their technology and these races distrusting and ignoring us. Even if we got the technology we might not even be able to use and understand it because it could be far too advanced. I say we steal all the Goauld technology but keep allies friendly because their help in certain situations is better than access to their technology.

I also think the Tollen are right about what we would do with any technology we acquired. Who is to say that if the US were threatend by China for example they wouldnt use alien technology. If the threat was big enough they would. The SGC may have good intentions but I dont trust a Government that would do anything to stay in power.

I think over time, as relations between these races grow stronger we will eventually gain their technology as we learn how it is to be used. E.g. not against each other but only as a last resort to protect ourselves from hostile invaders. However, humans seem destined to destroy each other and this doesnt look like changing anytime soon.

Selmak
July 10th, 2004, 08:43 PM
I like jack's quote "We don't need there stuff... but we do need them".

Selmak
July 15th, 2004, 07:19 PM
I like the deception... for a while you think jack goes nuts.

Selmak
July 26th, 2004, 07:07 PM
The way jack kept the worm hole open was interesting.

Livi2Jack
August 10th, 2004, 06:24 PM
Anybody wonder about Hammond's statement to Jack that he can retire but not come back? Seems to me he could gate to the alpha site and then home for his dental checkups.

Spiderman
September 19th, 2004, 09:21 AM
The way jack kept the worm hole open was interesting.
You know his arm was still in the naquadah that's why he could keep it open i think eh do not know for sure

Mr Prophet
September 19th, 2004, 09:40 AM
Anybody wonder about Hammond's statement to Jack that he can retire but not come back? Seems to me he could gate to the alpha site and then home for his dental checkups.

Well again this depends on whether the Alpha Site has an iris. Even if it doesn't he's not likely to be welcome at the top secret, don't dial this number unless you really, really mean it alpha site.

sueKay
September 28th, 2004, 03:59 AM
Gotta say, I love this episode!!!!!!!!!!!

Jack is my favourite character, and although I can put up with Dumb Jack, I prefer Smart Jack and Black Ops Jack anyday.

Episodes that deal with Jack's time in Special Ops are great, becasue I feel that they give us a glimpse of the real Jack O'Neill, Not the dumb masquerade we normally get week after week.

Loved the whole stealing thing and everything else.

7 out of 9 Chevrons.

LMichelle
November 12th, 2004, 10:19 PM
Anyone think of the black ops team as Evil SG-1? :p

I loved the whole "I'll leave the door open for you" as well as the Jack/Daniel banter at the end. Priceless. :)

Kliggins
November 13th, 2004, 02:21 AM
This is my favorite episode. Everything just clicked for me when I saw it for the first time; direction, acting, writing, and that has never changed. Loved the Jack/Mayborne banter and the ending was great. I keep thinking I will pick another episode as my favorite, but so far it has not happened. Right now, though, I am not happy I cannot watch it for another four hours. :(

Who invented this working for a living thing anyway?

Vapor
November 13th, 2004, 05:50 PM
Another good episode. When Jack flipped out in the beginning and stole the Tolen (sp?) device, I was like "WTF is he doing?!" When they were in the briefing room and nobody wanted to say anything about what Jack did, I just wanted to shout out "The thieving *&%$*#* stole it!" :D

Fantastic fake-out. Of course, all the character moments are completely useless now... (*sighs*) Oh well, it was still pretty cool.

Slainey
November 13th, 2004, 06:14 PM
This is about the only Maybourn epi that I like. The guy just annoys me. I think it is his teeth. Anyway.
Did you think Jack would have chess board prominently displayed in his living room that he'd sit on his deck and listen to opera?

Vapor
November 13th, 2004, 06:41 PM
The opera I did find a little strange...

Major Clanger
November 14th, 2004, 12:33 AM
This is about the only Maybourn epi that I like. The guy just annoys me. I think it is his teeth. Anyway.
Did you think Jack would have chess board prominently displayed in his living room that he'd sit on his deck and listen to opera?
Chess is a fantastic tactical game, although if I really think about it I'd reckon that Go would be better for Jack. Lots of people play chess - even I did for a while - often against someone at the other end of a phone line or computer.

As for Opera... that suits Jack perfectly. Especially the overly melodramatic stuff. Probably, I think we have discussed this before, he's got a lot of Led Zep, ZZ Top and stuff of that ilk too.

Or maybe not.

As for the ep: it's still one of my favourites. I love to see the dirty side of what the Stargate programme really is about.

BMWguy206
January 5th, 2005, 09:08 PM
Hey guys.. just watching this episode again and he's going another MacGyver favorite.

Jack is playing chess in this episode.

In the MacGyver show he would have flashbacks talking to his grandfather while they too were playing chess.

PugGate
March 7th, 2005, 07:47 PM
Did they say whatever happened to Makepeace? I kinda like the marines

SmartFox
March 10th, 2005, 09:28 PM
This is about the only Maybourn epi that I like. The guy just annoys me. I think it is his teeth. Anyway.
Did you think Jack would have chess board prominently displayed in his living room that he'd sit on his deck and listen to opera?

I'm just the opposite and love all eps with Maybourne. Hes one of my favorite charachters. This ep was good on so many levels. My favorite from S3 so far.

I'm a little disapointed in Maypeace for working for the NID and getting caught. I liked him alot and wished he had stayed around for awhile.

fair_nymph
March 15th, 2005, 09:04 PM
First things first: can anyone explain or guess at the meaning of the title for this episode?. I'm thinking along the lines of 'shades of grey' = shades of morality or something like that but I'd love to hear some other opinions.

I loved this ep. Best Jack episode so far -- RDA impressed me. I was totally confused, thinking he had gone nuts -- the whole fake-out was a complete surprise to me.

I hate Maybourne, which I gather we are supposed to, and yes his teeth (and his bulging eyes) annoy the hell out of me. I do think it was a bit odd that he wasn't more distrusting of Jack considering how rude Jack has been to him and how obvious it is that he hates Maybourne's guts. Perhaps Maybourne is just meant to be a bit of an idiot.

It was interesting seeing Sam's reaction to Jack's 'new personality', especially in the wake of 'A Hundred Days'. She really seemed truly disappointed and horrified about Jack's theft and ensuing behaviour. Shippiness galore. And then the look of relief and complete restored faith on her face when she finds out it's all a foil. This ep made me realize how Sam's affection for Jack is based to some degree on a hero-like worship of him. She really looks up to him tremendously, which is interesting considering how she is much more intellectually brilliant than he is. Why do we brainy girls always go for the smart alec risk-taking jocks?

Shep'sSocks
March 15th, 2005, 11:32 PM
Because they're cute?

SmartFox
March 16th, 2005, 10:59 AM
First things first: can anyone explain or guess at the meaning of the title for this episode?. I'm thinking along the lines of 'shades of grey' = shades of morality or something like that but I'd love to hear some other opinions.


Thats what i thought when i saw it. Shades of Grey as in what is right and what is wrong or is it just one big mix.

Sha're
March 29th, 2005, 11:14 AM
I was quite upset for Daniel in the scene in Jack's house. For all the tension there has been between them - Daniel has obviously always had faith that Jack is inherantly a good person who makes the right decisions in the end.
At the end of the episode - Jack obviously feels guilty about that. I was quite impressed by Daniel's comeback about the short straw!

RDA is impressive in this ep - like a few others - I was thrown the first time I watched this. Very good twist!

Redwall
April 18th, 2005, 08:04 PM
On the rerun of this today, anyone else notice the Asgard antigrav device almost looks like it has a ZPM? I assume it's just coincidence, but it's interesting nonetheless.

Chaka's_Mum
April 19th, 2005, 05:32 AM
RDA is impressive in this ep - like a few others - I was thrown the first time I watched this. Very good twist!

I know what you mean. We all know that Jack is regularly irritated by the Tollan refusal to share technology, particularly given the smug, superior manner in which they put their refusals ('inferior races' indeed!). But to turn and suddenly yank some interesting doohickey out of the wall like that made me almost slurp my tea down my front in surprise. This is a side of Jack O'Neill we've not seen before!

Mind you, I did spend a fair bit of time as the episode progressed thinking that he had set himself up to go undercover. Even though there was an air of plausibility to Jack's sudden refusal to accept any more of that damned Tollan superiority, the idea that he could really do something so utterly wrong rankled like hell. He's too much of a hero to do something like that! He is! He is!

It was nice, though, to see everybody's favourite Smug Git back again. I imagine, given the scope of the NID for snooping, that Maybourne was aware of Jack's frustration with 'advanced' races being all superior when it comes to technology. The thought that Jack has finally had enough and decided to 'go rogue' (as it were) would be just too tempting. After all, Jack is a Black Ops expert, he's been here, there and everywhere through the gate. Who better to lead the 'techno-nicking' team?

I know that some people were peeved at the sudden 'unmasking' of Makepeace like that. I, on the other hand, really appreciated that TPTB had gone to all the trouble of introducing him and building him up as a highly respected Officer within the SGC, rather than suddenly selecting a hitherto anonymous Airman or Marine and plucking them briefly from Extra-dom for that purpose.

Yes, Makepeace is a highly valued and respected member of the SGC, yes he's an excellent soldier - and a hero who has put his own life on the line to save SG1. But that's what the SGC pays him to do. By leading an SG team, he's perfectly placed to do his 'naughty stuff' without fear of raising suspicion from a Team leader, and he's probably been doing it from the word go. After all, he's a hero - who would've suspected him? He's too much of a hero to do something like that! He is! He is! Oh. He isn't. :(

QuiGonJohn
May 11th, 2005, 06:24 AM
I liked this episode. For much of it I was thinking, what the heck is going on with Jack.

Good interplay with Jack having to decieve his friends, and their reactions.

Mr Prophet
May 11th, 2005, 10:22 AM
I know that some people were peeved at the sudden 'unmasking' of Makepeace like that. I, on the other hand, really appreciated that TPTB had gone to all the trouble of introducing him and building him up as a highly respected Officer within the SGC, rather than suddenly selecting a hitherto anonymous Airman or Marine and plucking them briefly from Extra-dom for that purpose.

Actually, they didn't. They just picked a character who had been built up before, and as a heroic member of the team. It's the actor I feel sorry for.

"Hey, guy! We need you to do another episode."
"Great."
"And you're a *******."
"Erm..."

QuiGonJohn
May 13th, 2005, 02:02 PM
I posted a similar post in the NEW GROUND thread, but so far it doesn't look like it's been seen. So I thought I would post it here, especially since in this thread, people have been discussing this issue.

Many times I have seen the discussion about what can and cannot be done from the arriving end of a wormhole, (incoming wormhole). Some people have said that you cannot put any part of your body into it, from outside the event horizon, or you would lose said part. Such as people have said that Jack "had to not take his hand out as he rematerialized". But in NEW GROUND, they seem to show this is not true. When the gate first activates, Nyan puts his hand in, says it doesn't feel like water, then takes his hand out. Perfectly fine.

zarboki
May 15th, 2005, 01:26 AM
I posted a similar post in the NEW GROUND thread, but so far it doesn't look like it's been seen. So I thought I would post it here, especially since in this thread, people have been discussing this issue.

Many times I have seen the discussion about what can and cannot be done from the arriving end of a wormhole, (incoming wormhole). Some people have said that you cannot put any part of your body into it, from outside the event horizon, or you would lose said part. Such as people have said that Jack "had to not take his hand out as he rematerialized". But in NEW GROUND, they seem to show this is not true. When the gate first activates, Nyan puts his hand in, says it doesn't feel like water, then takes his hand out. Perfectly fine.

This is something I was also thinking about. It is quite clear that Jack would have gone completely through as he was running. Also in 38 Minutes (SGA) it clearly talks about the stargate sending matter through in discrete units (it waits for the whole item to pass through the event horizon before starting the matter stream. There also seems to be some sort of safeguard to prevent the gates being shut down whilst matter is in transit. This helps explain why they close the iris before the wormhole as people/wraith darts etc are hot on their heels.
So what happens to your hand or anything else that goes through the stargate "backwards"? The MALP in One Hundred Days was destroyed when it fell completely through. However as has been pointed out there are several cases of people putting their hands through. Jack talks about using it to keep the door open but nothing seemed to stop Jack shutting down the gate in The Enemy Within whilst Teal'c held Kawalsky's head in the gate - admittedly it was an outgoing wormhole.
I am sure this must have been covered somewhere else but this thread seemed a likely source.

Matt G
May 15th, 2005, 09:54 AM
The Gate was manually shut down in 'The Enemy Within'. The SGC could theoretically have done the same in Shades of Grey but they had no reason to do so(and a lot of reasons not to do so).

zarboki
May 20th, 2005, 06:52 AM
The Gate was manually shut down in 'The Enemy Within'. The SGC could theoretically have done the same in Shades of Grey but they had no reason to do so(and a lot of reasons not to do so).
Clearly the point I was trying to make is what was stopping the rogue team from shutting down the gate and dialing out elsewhere?. There was a time constraint I know, the Asgard ship - Thor I assume - was in very close proximity and redialling would have taken time.
It just seems a little risky for Jack to leave his hand in the gate if nothing was stopping it from being shut down manually.

Beatrice Otter
May 21st, 2005, 01:09 AM
Clearly the point I was trying to make is what was stopping the rogue team from shutting down the gate and dialing out elsewhere?. There was a time constraint I know, the Asgard ship - Thor I assume - was in very close proximity and redialling would have taken time.
It just seems a little risky for Jack to leave his hand in the gate if nothing was stopping it from being shut down manually.
Yes, but the SGC gate is run by the dialling computer, not a DHD. And the DHD has a lot of safety features built in that the dialling computer simply doesn't have; we see this several times over the course of the series. Maybe you can't shut it down with matter in the wormhole with a DHD until the 38 minute window has passed.

Abydosian
June 2nd, 2005, 02:57 PM
Interesting episode - nice sense of misdirection. It was hard to tell, although I wouldn't have thought Jack would become like that at the start, it just didn't fit his character, but with TV, you never know. Characters can undergo massive changes and they hope the viewers don't notice ;)

Also the reactions from the other characters in the know was good, and the episode was pretty believable.

A shame about Maybourne suddenly being a "jerk" again after being good in the previous episode of his - Foothold. It seemed a strange change.

Not sure how the Tollan's could have been involved - could people from the rogue group got onto their planet undetected? Why else would they be in on it?

One nitpick - at the start, when they are at the Weapon disabler thing, T'ealc adds 'And the goa'uld technology' as to what it disabled. But it didn't - in the previous Tollan episode (the name alludes me right now) - the Communication ball worked right from the hall.

Nice idea of an offworld base - seems hypocrtical they could have one but not the SGC. Also a shame about Makepeace being the one - wouldn't have thought it fitted his character. He didn't really seem the kind, although I suppose it fits with his idea of 'getting the job done'.

Good ethical discussion too - protect the earth and steal (or "borrow") or possibly let the Earth fall but keep to morals? I think it's summed up nicely at the end "But we do need them" :)

I also didn't understand the "holding the door open" thing - Jack went through, it was an outgoing wormhole, they were sending it, they had the DHD. Surely they could deactivate the wormhole from their end and dial somewhere else?

Overall, an interesting episode and nice to see some ties wrapped up - would have been nice to have a bit more of a buildup (some of the accusations Hammond mentions, and some sights or mentions of the rogue team?)

Chaka's_Mum
June 7th, 2005, 05:21 AM
A shame about Maybourne suddenly being a "jerk" again after being good in the previous episode of his - Foothold. It seemed a strange change.

Not to me - Maybourne is just reverting to his main role, which is co-ordinating the operational minutiae of the Rogue NID Techno-nickers. Until this point, we didn't know how dodgy he was (only that he was dodgy), and Foothold was simply a matter of Maybourne doing the day job for a bit. It's worth remembering that he was more or less pitched into it by Sam when she turned to him as the only person in Washington she could think of that both knew about the Stargate Programme and wasn't likely to have been compromised yet. The fact that he was on the 'good' side was merely incidental. He's an Airforce Officer, to do anything else would have been dereliction of duty.


Not sure how the Tollan's could have been involved - could people from the rogue group got onto their planet undetected? Why else would they be in on it?

I expect so - the Tollans are very comfy with their extensive security grid so they're not exactly expecting to deal with sneaky commando infiltration, and we're looking at people with at least some black-ops skills. It's unlikely that the Tollan gate is particularly heavily guarded, so they might well have been able to sneak in and pinch stuff on the quiet. Given that the Techno-nickers aren't dialling in from a Goa'uld world, it's perhaps less likely that the Tollan security systems would be alerted by their visits.


Nice idea of an offworld base - seems hypocrtical they could have one but not the SGC. Also a shame about Makepeace being the one - wouldn't have thought it fitted his character. He didn't really seem the kind, although I suppose it fits with his idea of 'getting the job done'.

I don't see why not - they need somewhere to store their loot (and back-engineer the bigger stuff) that's not going to arouse attention and won't be tied too obviously to Earth. Don't forget that the SGC have the Alpha Site, though.

I feel that Makepeace was the ideal choice myself - for the reasons I outlined in my previous post. It really did need to be someone of that level and calibre. Certainly, while 'Forging alliances and sharing technology with alien races' sounds mutually exclusive to 'knocking off technology from alien races' on paper, to someone with a strong patriotic bent (like Makepeace seems to have) they'd actually be quite comfortable bedfellows - after all, he's serving his country and planet by protecting it at any cost. Even if it's by pissing off all the Tauri's galactic allies by pinching stuff off them.


Good ethical discussion too - protect the earth and steal (or "borrow") or possibly let the Earth fall but keep to morals? I think it's summed up nicely at the end "But we do need them" :)

That's true. Both arguments have their pros and cons - though I think the short-termism of Techno-nicking probably has far more cons than pros in the long run. Trouble is, when you've got the Goa'uld eyeing you up as a possible threat, which will save you from them quicker if they decide to come knocking? A toughie indeed - one of those occasions which would prove that hindsight is 20/20.


I also didn't understand the "holding the door open" thing - Jack went through, it was an outgoing wormhole, they were sending it, they had the DHD. Surely they could deactivate the wormhole from their end and dial somewhere else?

I'd go with Beatrice on that one. The DHD is far more sophisticated than the SGC Dialling computer, and has who-knows-how-many failsafes and safety protocols to protect a traveller's molecular integrity. They didn't disengage the wormhole and re-dial elsewhere simply because the DHD wouldn't allow them to do so while there was still matter in transit.


Overall, an interesting episode and nice to see some ties wrapped up - would have been nice to have a bit more of a buildup (some of the accusations Hammond mentions, and some sights or mentions of the rogue team?)

I think it would have been a bit difficult to factor the Techno-nickers into other episodes (though some early techno-nicking was revealed in 'Touchstone') without needing a bit more exposition within those episodes. Though, given how well buried the scam was, I suspect that Hammond wanted to keep the complaints and irritated rumblings as quiet as possible to prevent the Techno-nickers from figuring out someone with the clout to actually investigate their activities was aware of them. Sometimes you've got to give them the rope they need to hang 'emselves.

Petroit
June 25th, 2005, 06:07 AM
R.D.Anderson is so great actor.He play´s in this episode really cogently...

Perriman33
August 11th, 2005, 11:57 PM
I don't know if it's cos I'm not a big tollan fan but I didn't see anything wrong with jack stealing off them. At least I didn't think *Oh thats what this episode is about,stealing off other races!*.
It was only when they mentioned the asgard I thought *fair enough*.
I liked the way jack infiltrated the rogue team who had their own sam character. It seemed a bit short and rushed to me, especially after he joined the rogue team. The asgard whizz in zap everything up and jack goes back to SGC. I did like the ending though where daniel, sam and teal'c get they're own back on him. :D

Ascendant
September 2nd, 2005, 10:06 PM
Fantastic fake-out. Of course, all the character moments are completely useless now... (*sighs*) Oh well, it was still pretty cool.
Yeah, I actually felt a little cheated by the conclusion of the episode. We spend the entire show finally getting some (apparently) hardcore character development out of Jack...his attitude is shocking, fascinating. We know that Jack is a good guy, so we start wondering if maybe his point of view isn't so wrong after all. And then, in the last five minutes, it's all taken back - "Syke! I've been a good guy all along! None of your feelings about me in this episode have been valid!"

It only really works if you've completley stopped relating to him for the entire episode. If your emotions about Jack are in the grey area between black and white, you can almost relate to him. If you're looking at him entirely from the Light Side perspective, it seems like he's doing bad things. Then you would feel entirely relieved at the end.

I dunno. At least it firmly establishes him as one of the Good Guys. That could be called character development, I guess...

It does bring up an interesting point, though. I think if I were running the SGC, I would focus less on exploration and more on stealing vast amounts of enemy technology. Gate pirates.

I thought Makepeace was a premo choice for the mole. It's so easy to write him off as a brave but prototypical rule-following grunt. Then we find out he has this secret life. It gives him much more depth. It's cool that they used a recurring character, too, instead of just Some Guy.

Overall it was an awesome episode - the ending just felt a tad cheap, is all. "It was all a lie. Everything's back to normal..."

Tezzador
September 7th, 2005, 05:29 AM
Yea, and in the end the tollan get destroyed, the asgard become weakened and earth still is in pretty good shape!

Albion
September 7th, 2005, 03:45 PM
First things first: can anyone explain or guess at the meaning of the title for this episode?. I'm thinking along the lines of 'shades of grey' = shades of morality or something like that but I'd love to hear some other opinions.

Shades of grey is a common phrase to mean something ambiguous - something that you can't categorise as simply black or white, good or bad. Something that's not clear cut.

Quite often, yes, that means morally or politically ambiguous and it often refers to an action done by someone that could be almost as bad as it is good. Politicians, spies, soldiers and many others all live in a world that isn't as simple as black and white - good guys and bad guys without ambiguity - but painted in shades of grey. The middle ground in between good and evil, where sometimes you have to do bad things to have good consequences and where the concepts of morality are blurred.

So in the context of the episode, the shades of grey refers to the world that Maybourne and the rogue NID SG teams operate in. Where the moral ambiguity of stealing technology for our benefit, even if that means you ruin another society or kill a whole race of people is considered a worthy tradeoff.

Yes, we see that what the NID is doing is bad. But otoh, we can also sympathise with their pov and their reasoning. They aren't wholly black (totally evil) or wholly white (complete saints - otherwise they wouldn't be acting as they are) but in the morally ambiguious gray area in between where they honestly think they are working to be best they can for their country and have more lost their way, lost sight of the big picture, than are truly criminal.


Albion :)

Stricken
September 8th, 2005, 04:06 AM
I don't know if it's cos I'm not a big Tollan fan but I didn't see anything wrong with Jack stealing off them. It was only when they mentioned the Asgard having their tech stolen I thought fair enough.
I liked the way jack infiltrated the rogue team who had their own version of Sam. It seemed a bit short and rushed to me, especially after he joined the rogue team. The Asgard whizz in zap everything up and Jack goes back to SGC.

Ascendant
September 8th, 2005, 01:53 PM
Shades of grey is a common phrase to mean something ambiguous - something that you can't categorise as simply black or white, good or bad. Something that's not clear cut.
I always kind of thought it was referring more to Jack's actions (rather than the actions of the rogue NID team) and the fact that we aren't really sure whose side he's on until the end.

But now I'm starting to think it might be a pun on the Asgard. Shades of Roswell Grey.

walter_MacChevron
September 15th, 2005, 09:22 PM
yeah, it was intersting to see jack kind of sway between the good side and the bad side

coprohead
September 18th, 2005, 10:03 PM
I just watched this on the DVD and I have a question for anyone who has the DVD or has seen the back cover (US Version). Who is the picture of on the back cover of the DVD associated with Shades of Grey?

I didn't see anyone looking like that in this one. I also don't remember anyone else in any of the others that looked like the person in the picture.

Well, sorry if this has been covered already and I missed it.

-Dale

Chaka's_Mum
September 20th, 2005, 11:19 PM
I always kind of thought it was referring more to Jack's actions (rather than the actions of the rogue NID team) and the fact that we aren't really sure whose side he's on until the end.

But now I'm starting to think it might be a pun on the Asgard. Shades of Roswell Grey.

In some ways, I think this could almost be one of those episode titles that covers all the angles to some degree. The uncertainty of whether or not Jack has really abandoned the principles of the SGC (and, despite his complaints, his own principles too) is one of them, and the actions of people like Maybourne, Makepeace and the Techno-nickers is another.

We might consider the theft of technology from allies to be reprehensible, but their view is that it's a necessary evil to ensure the future security of the earth (and probably the future financial security of whoever's backing them, of course - but they probably put that bit to the back of their minds). There's a point to both sides of the argument - do we protect ourselves through making use of off-world technology (albeit through knocking it off) or by forging alliances and hoping our more advanced neighbours will come to our aid if the worst should happen? One is more morally responsible than the other - depending upon to whom you feel your responsibility lies. Enough shades of grey there to populate a Dulux catalogue, methinks! :D

Pharaoh Atem
March 26th, 2006, 04:32 PM
rick did a good job in this episode playing jack as if he was fed up remined me of the movie

captain jake
May 11th, 2006, 05:37 PM
This was a great mission I was totaly weirded out the first time I saw it.

Chaka's_Mum
May 11th, 2006, 11:19 PM
I know what you mean - that moment when Jack yanks that bit of technology off the wall is a bit of a 'sit up and say "what???!!!"' kind of thing!

captain jake
May 12th, 2006, 06:17 PM
It wasnt exactly good for him to leave in the first place, what is to say if he came he would be able to go back?

Sheppard
July 20th, 2006, 12:31 AM
i liked how they all were scared when the asgard were beaming things off the planet at the end i just though that was funny and at the end where jack went through the gate did he have a GDO just a question odd anywho

Chaka's_Mum
July 20th, 2006, 11:38 PM
i liked how they all were scared when the asgard were beaming things off the planet at the end i just though that was funny and at the end where jack went through the gate did he have a GDO just a question odd anywho

He had long sleeves on, so chances are the GDO was stuffed up his sleeve out of sight. I'd have to go back and re-watch the ep to see if he had sufficient time 'on screen' to actually transmit an IDC code, though! :D

Fugazi
December 24th, 2006, 03:37 PM
He had long sleeves on, so chances are the GDO was stuffed up his sleeve out of sight. I'd have to go back and re-watch the ep to see if he had sufficient time 'on screen' to actually transmit an IDC code, though! :D

I suppose it is possible that since Hammond was in on the whole thing that he allowed Jack to take a GDO with him covertly. However, I think it's inferred more or less that due to the set-up being a collaborative effort among the SGC, Tollan and Asgard, that when the Asgard got the address and then went to go get their stuff, SGC knew somehow to expect Jack to dail home at that time. Possibly the Asgard called ahead. It seems we are suppose to know at that last scene in the gate room that they were expecting the rogue NID people to come through the Stargate, as there were plenty of SGC personnel there to arrest them all.

Anyhow, I love this episode. Easily in my top 3 favorites. But one thing that's been bugging me over the years: does anyone know what opera Jack's listening to?

Zoser
December 26th, 2006, 06:00 AM
The opera is Pagliacci by Leoncavallo. The aria that you hear is Vesti la giubba. (To perform! ... Put on the costume) so it is very fitting for the scene. There are hidden depths to Stargate!!

Fugazi
December 26th, 2006, 08:07 AM
The opera is Pagliacci by Leoncavallo. The aria that you hear is Vesti la giubba. (To perform! ... Put on the costume) so it is very fitting for the scene. There are hidden depths to Stargate!!

Wow. Thank you! I'm deeply impressed. I feared no one here could answer this. I'm a classically trained musician, but my familiarity with opera is limited to mostly German works. I know Fidelio, Wozzeck, anything Wagner....er, and the rest I'm just like, "Um, that's in Italian, right?"

Hidden depths indeed. I love that scene - it's excetionally well crafted, so I do not doubt that the choice of music was intentional. I suspect RDA himself was behind it.

Chaka's_Mum
January 3rd, 2007, 12:01 AM
I am also a classically trained musician. However my familiarity with opera is limited to Gilbert and Sullivan...(*ahem*)

Harlan's Speechwriter
July 1st, 2007, 02:25 AM
I am also a classically trained musician. However my familiarity with opera is limited to Gilbert and Sullivan...(*ahem*)

I'm a classically trained instrumentalist and singer and was very impressed by the choice of music for that scene, even more so when I'd seen the outcome of the episode.

In the opera, Canio, a member of a troupe of travelling clowns, has found out that his wife Nedda has been having an affair, and must now go on stage with her and make people laugh. I forget the exact translation, but I think the first line of the chorus is something like "Laugh clown, though your heart is breaking". (It's a good opera, I'd recommend it - it's only one act, so is usually performed alongside Mascagni's Cavalleria rusticana, which is also very good).

This seems a very appropriate piece for Jack, who often seems to act the clown, but has deep feelings, just like anyone else. It's particularly appropriate here, with the 'act' that Jack is involved with.

I wasn't sure about this episode at first, as Jack's behaviour seemed so out of character. But once the truth was revealed, I was very impressed with how realistic the set up had been, especially between Jack and Hammond.

Chaka's_Mum
July 3rd, 2007, 12:16 AM
It's interesting - although what Jack did was so out of character, he's always been frustrated with the Tollan refusal to let us play with their toys, so why shouldn't he go that one step further and actually take something?

There was no reason why he shouldn't develop the same reasoning that led Colonel Makepeace to act as the 'inside man' for the Techno-nickers; particularly as the Tollan are just so damn smug about not giving technology to 'inferior' races. Being someone who tends to wear his heart on his sleeve a lot of the time, I guess it was even possible that he would be so completely blatant about it - yanking something interesting off the wall in front of his teammates as though in a fit of temper.

Fortunately, Jack has far more integrity than that - but it was a 'choke on the tea/coffee/aqua libra' moment, wasn't it?

Harlan's Speechwriter
July 3rd, 2007, 10:10 AM
I can see that. I think what made me immediately question Jack's behaviour was that it was so near the beginning of the episode; there was no build up, other than what we've seen in previous episodes with the Tollan, to explain his sudden actions. Also, he didn't really try to argue in the Tollan Council; that seems more like his usual style to me, rather than just marching out and stealing the device.

talula
November 6th, 2007, 02:39 PM
I might be the most gullible person on the planet, but I didn't get what was going on until they actually told us. I was all "Why's Jack being so mean???"

I watched it the second time with my boyfriend and by the time Daniel comes to Jack's door he was all "He's pretending to find a mole or something." Seriously!

Because I was so very fooled, I was really upset by the scene where Jack says he's going to retire on that other world and never be able to return and none of SG-1 says anything about it while he's walking away. I mean, just the episode before Teal'c risked his life to dig through solid rock to get him out of there and Sam built a particle beam something-or-other to get him out of there. And no one is upset? It seemed to me the rest of the team wouldn't have been so accepting of all the change.

Eh, the Daniel/Jack scene at the end made up for it though. The foundation, it's all solid.

Jumper_One
November 30th, 2007, 02:39 PM
I like this episode.. O'neill really does a good act in pretending to be all for taking what we need to protect earth... 9.5/10 easily..

I agree, he almost fooled me - almost! ;) and I just loved his scenes with Maybourne, this guy's just great and they're hilarious together :D

captain jake
December 7th, 2007, 08:18 PM
I agree, he almost fooled me - almost! ;) and I just loved his scenes with Maybourne, this guy's just great and they're hilarious together :D

I agree Maybourne and jack work extremely well off of each other.

VSS
December 8th, 2007, 10:41 AM
I might be the most gullible person on the planet, but I didn't get what was going on until they actually told us. I was all "Why's Jack being so mean???"

I watched it the second time with my boyfriend and by the time Daniel comes to Jack's door he was all "He's pretending to find a mole or something." Seriously!

Because I was so very fooled, I was really upset by the scene where Jack says he's going to retire on that other world and never be able to return and none of SG-1 says anything about it while he's walking away. I mean, just the episode before Teal'c risked his life to dig through solid rock to get him out of there and Sam built a particle beam something-or-other to get him out of there. And no one is upset? It seemed to me the rest of the team wouldn't have been so accepting of all the change.

Eh, the Daniel/Jack scene at the end made up for it though. The foundation, it's all solid.

I was totally fooled until SG-1 came through the gate on the planet where Makepeace was to make the pick-up. O'Neill's behind the rock with that single-lens field glass and all he's doing is checking out Carter.

So I thought, wait just a minute... didn't he chew her out earlier in the show? It didn't fit. But I have to admit I wasn't totally sure until the end.

As you can see by my nic, I've watched this ep a few times.;)

Integrabyte
December 29th, 2007, 09:55 AM
I was totally fooled until SG-1 came through the gate on the planet where Makepeace was to make the pick-up. O'Neill's behind the rock with that single-lens field glass and all he's doing is checking out Carter.

So I thought, wait just a minute... didn't he chew her out earlier in the show? It didn't fit. But I have to admit I wasn't totally sure until the end.

As you can see by my nic, I've watched this ep a few times.;)

I was more shocked than fooled. He seemed to have this beep off attitude and to be frank Hammond let him do a lot do catch Makepeace and the gang!

Teslan
February 25th, 2008, 08:19 PM
One of my favorite episodes from season 3, if not the whole series. Usually I like the team episodes the best, but this is an exception. While this one has a few terrific team moments, it really lets Jack shine. When I first watched it, I saw the teaser when Jack ripped the thing off the wall, and then someone had the nerve to change the channel. I was really miffed, and when we finally turned it back I think Jack had already left the SGC.

Having gone back and watched the whole thing a few times, I love the scene where they first come back from the Tollan homeworld. The whole team just looks so embarrased and ashamed of Jack, but if you notice no one gives him away. Daniel can hardly look at Jack, and Sam looks almost scared when General Hammond asks her directly, and I always wonder who would have spilled the beans if Jack hadn't stepped up and let them off the hook.

I figured it was some kind of covert operation, mostly because I couldn't see any other way Jack could be forgiven for such an offense, and you knew he had to be to rejoin the team. But I was at first surprised that the team didn't figure it out too. But then on the otherhand, Jack had always acted just crazy and jerky enough to set them on edge.

Maybourne and Makepeace were good, with Maybourne naturally jumping at the chance to get Jack on his side, and Makepeace was the perfect choice because he was such a hero. It didn't go against his character, I felt, because the only thing we had really seen from him before was a willingness to protect. Here he was doing the same thing, just taking that extra step.
And while some are suggesting Jack was watching Sam for other reasons, *hem* when I first saw it I was shocked because I thought he thought she was the mole. He knew Daniel wasn't, and if Teal'c were a spy he wouldn't be one for an NID offshoot, and of course Makepeace was an outstanding officer. He looked really surprised when it turned out to be him.

Even after knowing the end I still like the ep, because Hammond and Jack play the whole thing so well. Jack always acts a little childish, but in this one he is downright petulant, and Hammond sends him to the infirmary instead of the containment room. The reactions of the rest of the team remind of something off of Candid Camera.

This is really long, so just want to add that I liked the scene where Daniel goes to see him, and the earlier one where Sam tells him he isn't acting like himself. The end is the best part, because now it is Jack's turn to look a little sheepish when they explain to them that they got punked. And the last scene where they get a little of their own back is priceless, especially Teal'c, who just stands there and tilts his head.

garhkal
March 3rd, 2008, 03:35 PM
I like your reasoning, but i cannot see him thinking sam is the mole, especially with all they have gone through up to now..

Teslan
March 4th, 2008, 07:27 PM
Yeah, I guess it does sound too far-fetched, but that was just my initial impression when I first saw it. And the only way it was remotely conceivable is because Jack was in his "black-ops" mode, therefore quite suspcious of everyone, and while he probably wouldn't have doubted the real Sam, perhaps he was concerned about some kind of mind control (i.e. Rya'c). Which actually wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility seeing the tech used in a few eps later.

captain jake
June 30th, 2008, 08:45 PM
This was a complete curve ball episode, I don't know about the rest of you but when I saw this episode for the first time I had no idea what was going on. I was thinking that he had to be under the control of some kind of alien device. I love the scene where Jack is sitting on his porch listening to Pavarotti. I do wonder how Maybourne fell for their stunt though, I always thought he was smarter than that. This episode presents a great morale lesson, that being quality of friends trumps quantity of possessions. I do have to ask why they had to make Colonel Makepeace into a jerk. First of all Makepeace treats Teal'c like crap, than he turns out to be working for the NID and Maybourne. After all Makepeace and his team did save the lives of SG-1 in "Into the Fire", I think they should have made someone else the mole.

I didn't completely understand why they had to keep it a secret from the rest of the team, but I suppose they were trying to minimize exposure. After all the bigger the waterbed the more places there are for a leek to spring. I suppose the Asgard insisting that Jack did it alone had something to do with it as well.

A few of my favorite shots from the episode.

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk162/Jacob_Hyden/vlcsnap-2118082.png

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk162/Jacob_Hyden/vlcsnap-2122385.png

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk162/Jacob_Hyden/vlcsnap-2128137.png

HelloVelo
July 7th, 2008, 07:36 AM
Holy cow, the Tollan weren't annoying in this episode.

My Rating: 8/10

Full Review: http://stargatesummer.blogspot.com/2008/07/shades-of-grey.html

L E E
July 17th, 2008, 08:43 PM
Undercover Jack is always fun to watch. I knew there was something going on because I was never convinced that Jack suddenly changed his attitude.

I did not like that Makepeace was the mole. It just doesn't seem right to me.

Maybourne is as usual a wonderful antagonist to Jack even if Jack seemed to have switched sides.

Black_Sheep
September 11th, 2008, 05:26 PM
I didn't like this episode at the beginning. I was also hoping to see Mayborne being fired or getting into trouble again. The ending made me think that just how good friends the SG-1 members are? I have always thought that they are really good friends..

JARVISBRODIE
October 26th, 2008, 07:16 PM
This was one of my favorite episodes of Season 3. One of my favorite and funny parts of the episode was when the STARGATE on the rendezvous planet was activated 4 times. I bet that STARGATE was thinking "Will you please stop activating me?"

Butlersgate
February 23rd, 2009, 02:05 PM
i thought this was an episode that teal'c should of had the opertunity to "dismember" maybourne haha

balo
February 25th, 2009, 08:53 AM
I was very confused in the beginning of this episode , first I believed that Jack was under control of an alien or something.

Very good acting by RDA , maybe one of his best episodes.

Rating : 8 / 10

amconway
February 25th, 2009, 09:08 AM
I was very confused in the beginning of this episode , first I believed that Jack was under control of an alien or something.
Yes, everyone was confused, including the team! ;)
And now for the really important unresolved question... Did they really draw straws, or was Daniel just getting back at Jack for being such a jerk? :)

Nightspore
February 25th, 2009, 11:06 AM
Yes, everyone was confused, including the team! ;)
And now for the really important unresolved question... Did they really draw straws, or was Daniel just getting back at Jack for being such a jerk? :)


I don't think they really drew straws; it was Daniel's way of getting back at Jack. That said, I don't think Jack was a jerk at all. He was under orders NOT to say anything to anyone so he followed those orders. He pretty much knew his house was bugged so he had to really "sell" the fact that he had turned and if saying certain things to Daniel help convince Maybourne, then that's how it had to be. The ultimate goal here was to regain the trust of some very important allies (Nox, Asgard and the Tollan) that Earth needed in the fight against the Goa'uld. That Daniel felt let down or hurt was less important than the overall goal.

Turning this around, I've always felt that Daniel, Teal'c and Sam were less than true friends because they so readily believed Jack would do something like that. Doesn't say much for their "trust" in Jack and if anyone had to be considered "jerks" I would put that label on his so-called best friends.

Just my take.

amconway
February 25th, 2009, 03:52 PM
I don't think they really drew straws; it was Daniel's way of getting back at Jack. That said, I don't think Jack was a jerk at all. He was under orders NOT to say anything to anyone so he followed those orders. He pretty much knew his house was bugged so he had to really "sell" the fact that he had turned and if saying certain things to Daniel help convince Maybourne, then that's how it had to be. The ultimate goal here was to regain the trust of some very important allies (Nox, Asgard and the Tollan) that Earth needed in the fight against the Goa'uld. That Daniel felt let down or hurt was less important than the overall goal.

Turning this around, I've always felt that Daniel, Teal'c and Sam were less than true friends because they so readily believed Jack would do something like that. Doesn't say much for their "trust" in Jack and if anyone had to be considered "jerks" I would put that label on his so-called best friends.

Just my take.
We definately see the episode differently-although I don't think they drew straws ;). Seems to me that Jack went way further than he needed to, and really went for the jugular. From a writing point of view, that is certainly more dramatic, but from an in show perspective, the team had justification to feel let down.

Nightspore
February 25th, 2009, 04:13 PM
We definately see the episode differently-although I don't think they drew straws ;). Seems to me that Jack went way further than he needed to, and really went for the jugular. From a writing point of view, that is certainly more dramatic, but from an in show perspective, the team had justification to feel let down.

Why do you think the team had justification to feel let down? Jack was no more snarky with Carter than he always had been; same with Teal'c.

HPMom
February 25th, 2009, 04:23 PM
Turning this around, I've always felt that Daniel, Teal'c and Sam were less than true friends because they so readily believed Jack would do something like that. Doesn't say much for their "trust" in Jack and if anyone had to be considered "jerks" I would put that label on his so-called best friends.

Just my take.

I could never buy that they would have. I knew right away and given how close the team always was, I just can't believe they wouldn't see it as a ruse.

amconway
February 25th, 2009, 04:24 PM
Why do you think the team had justification to feel let down? Jack was no more snarky with Carter than he always had been; same with Teal'c.
I really should watch the episode again... I'm discussing this here without a recent enough viewing to be properly specific. From a character point of view, I think that they would feel let down, first, that general Hammond approved their being left in the dark, essentially agreeing that they were to be considered under suspicion, and secondly, that Jack, who has never been a guy who didn't bend the rules when he thought it was necessary, didn't find a way to give them a hint that things weren't as they seemed, at the very least.
I'm not saying that Jack didn't think that he had to do what he did, just that the team were well within believable reaction to react as they did, and feel hurt and let down. That's where the pathos of this episode comes from. The ending is quite bittersweet, because, although there is a win, none of them feel like they've had a win. Trust is damaged on all sides.

Nightspore
February 25th, 2009, 06:15 PM
I really should watch the episode again... I'm discussing this here without a recent enough viewing to be properly specific. From a character point of view, I think that they would feel let down, first, that general Hammond approved their being left in the dark, essentially agreeing that they were to be considered under suspicion, and secondly, that Jack, who has never been a guy who didn't bend the rules when he thought it was necessary, didn't find a way to give them a hint that things weren't as they seemed, at the very least.
I'm not saying that Jack didn't think that he had to do what he did, just that the team were well within believable reaction to react as they did, and feel hurt and let down. That's where the pathos of this episode comes from. The ending is quite bittersweet, because, although there is a win, none of them feel like they've had a win. Trust is damaged on all sides.

I've seen it more than a few times since it's one of my favorites. I think all of them know (especially Daniel) that Jack has done some pretty nasty things to defend his country and that he would do whatever he thought was necessary in this case to restore the trust of the allies and to protect his teammates. The Nox and Tollan wanted Jack and only Jack to be involved in the situation; he was told he couldn't tell anyone else and Jack would honor that trust they placed in him. He wanted to be sure that Carter, Daniel and Teal'c reacted as if they really believed he had gone rogue since they didn't know if they were being watched, monitored - it has to be believable.

If Daniel (and the Carter and Teal'c to a lesser extent) couldn't put their own personal feelings aside and see that Jack had done what had to be done for the sake of catching the members of the rogue team and helping restore balance within the allies, then they shouldn't be on the team.

In my opinion, it wasn't about THEM (Daniel, Sam and Teal'c) – it was about the bigger picture. If Jack had somehow let Daniel know just because he didn't want to hurt Daniel's feelings/wanted to let Daniel know their friendship was solid, it certainly would have lessened the impact. What I would have like to have seen at the end would have been Daniel confessing that he never really "bought" Jack going rogue/that he knew something was up, but played along for Jack's sake. There have been some fan fics along these line; very well written.

amconway
February 25th, 2009, 06:20 PM
If Daniel (and the Carter and Teal'c to a lesser extent) couldn't put their own personal feelings aside and see that Jack had done what had to be done for the sake of catching the members of the rogue team and helping restore balance within the allies, then they shouldn't be on the team.
Where's the drama in that?

What I would have like to have seen at the end would have been Daniel confessing that he never really "bought" Jack going rogue/that he knew something was up, but played along for Jack's sake. There have been some fan fics along these line; very well written.
To me, this would have been something that lessened the impact. 'Shades of Grey' doesn't just refer to Jack's actions, but to the relationships between the characters. If they didn't buy it, then the story becomes about nothing much. The main point here isn't catching the bad guy, it's about what chatching the bad guy does to the characters.

Nightspore
February 25th, 2009, 06:30 PM
Where's the drama in that?

To me, this would have been something that lessened the impact. 'Shades of Grey' doesn't just refer to Jack's actions, but to the relationships between the characters. If they didn't buy it, then the story becomes about nothing much. The main point here isn't catching the bad guy, it's about what chatching the bad guy does to the characters.

That's my point. For me, after 4 years of all the trials and tribulations these characters went through, they should ALL know that their friendships are very solid/that sometimes you have to do some nasty things for the greater good. I like Jack and Daniel as equals (at least in their friendship) rather than seeing Daniel as the emotionally wounded one who is terribly hurt if Jack says their friendship had no foundation. And actually, I felt much worse for Jack than I did for Daniel since they so easily accepted he would go rogue.

However one looks at the episode, I think it was one of the best. And RDA looked so handsome in this one.

amconway
February 25th, 2009, 06:48 PM
That's my point. For me, after 4 years of all the trials and tribulations these characters went through, they should ALL know that their friendships are very solid/that sometimes you have to do some nasty things for the greater good.
Sorry, I don't understand. I'm saying that the episode wouldn't have been as dramatic if the team hadn't believed Jack--or are you saying you just didn't like the plot much? Which is perfectly valid...

I like Jack and Daniel as equals (at least in their friendship) rather than seeing Daniel as the emotionally wounded one who is terribly hurt if Jack says their friendship had no foundation.
I can agree with you here. I heartily dislike fanfic portrayals of Daniel as the wounded bird. C'mon! Look at him! ;) (I also dislike H/C fic and heavy angst for many of the same reasons, as well as the general ewww factor) I don't mean to suggest that Daniel is all torn up inside. I think he's pissed--we all know Daniel has a temper. I also don't think that Daniel broods or holds grudges-not with his friends, anyway. Look at 'The Other Side.' Daniel was totally pissed, but after Jack apologises, it's over. My feeling is that he's pissed off here, too, but he'll be over it pretty darn quick. That crack on leaving the gate room probably did the job for him.
I don't feel bad for Jack here. He really sold it. He can't be surprised that they bought it. He worked very hard to make sure they did.

The Stig
April 26th, 2009, 03:41 PM
This was a good episode. the tollan dobn't annoy me and Maybourne gets whats coming to him in a way. Oh and Jack saves the day.

Pic
May 7th, 2009, 06:13 PM
Wow, you all had a pretty good conversation going on about Daniel and Jack a few months ago. :o

Throwing my 2 cents in, I have to agree that this wasn't 100% totally out of character for Jack. He always worked on the edge of what was "allowed" and bucked the system when he felt it was justified. Sam/Daniel/Teal'c might've thought he'd taken it too far, but if he pulled it off right (and apparently he did) it could've been believable.

The nasty barbs sent to Daniel where just to push him over the edge. In my mind, Daniel suspected something was fishy, and Jack figured he couldn't bluff it too much so he pissed him off instead. After all, Jack only needed Daniel to believe it for a few days. Once Daniel calmed down, I'm sure he'd've been back at Jack because he thought something was off.

At this point, I don't think Sam would've pushed. Season 4, she would've, season 3, not so much. Daniel showing up at Jack's house is the only one that made sense.

Although, I like his come back about drawing straws. It made me chuckle. ;)

lordofseas
May 7th, 2009, 06:18 PM
8.5 out of 10. Jack the hero, the Tollans are in this episode, and we see floating technology.

mrscopterdoc
March 10th, 2010, 09:27 PM
I remember the first time I watched this I really believed something had happened to Jack. It was neat how everything fell into place and it all worked out, and of course Daniel's dig at the end was too funny. :)

MelbournePates
March 14th, 2010, 06:37 PM
I really like this episode but there's only one thing that bothers me about it. Col. Makepeace was the CO of the rescue mission in In To The Fire and risked his own life and the life of his team by choice to get SG1 home safe. At the end of Shades of Grey Makepeace is found to be the mole and taken in to custody by O'Neill. Now this is probably being a bit nit-picky, but i just found it a little jarring for them to turn so harshly on him.

StargateWatcher
March 30th, 2010, 07:15 PM
Hmm.. weren't the Asgard in on it all?

yes the Tollans were in too n helped setup the scheme to expose the NID's stealing of adv alien tech

SantaSlayer
April 1st, 2010, 08:33 AM
I liked the deception O' Neill caused and an overall good episode. The only thing that through me off as others have said was how Makepeace was a hero early in the season then becomes a bad guy after that. It would have been great if there was an episode of him returning.

Girlbot
June 11th, 2010, 11:09 AM
Good episode, except everyone being so stupid as to believe that Jack would ever , ever do something like that.

maneth
August 30th, 2010, 11:17 PM
Indeed. I felt we were in an alternate reality until the arrests. How Carter and Jackson bought it for so long escapes me, but it's a good thing they did.

Darkland
September 12th, 2010, 12:51 AM
Great episode, I was really into the story and thought good - Jack deserve what he got - An early retirement, but when that offer from what's his face (M), I knew something was a miss. I believe the context of the story fits really well with Jack because this is exactly what he would do to try and protect his country.

FrodoFraggins
March 31st, 2011, 06:05 PM
7/10

It was too obvious to me and I found it all too convenient that Maybourne trusted O'Neill so quickly. All in all a rather disappointing implementation of a decent idea.

LeftHandedGuitarist
October 14th, 2011, 12:08 PM
This one is great fun. Looking back, I can't believe I fell for the ruse originally because it feels so obvious that Jack is faking it. Sneaky Jack and Hammond. It also has one of the best endings to a show so far, it always brings a massive smile to my face.

- Richard Dean Anderson is really channeling Kurt Russel's performance in the original movie when he says to Carter, "I haven't been acting like myself since I met you."

- I'm glad Makepeace was the the mole and it didn't turn out to be somebody I liked! I love the scene where SG-1 meet him as their new commanding officer and Daniel's little speech.

- Jack has a lovely house!

- Jack holding his arm in the Stargate's event horizon looked a bit strange. The previous episode (A Hundred Days) established that anything going back through the event horizon the wrong way gets vaporized, as we saw with the MALP. So I don't quite get how Jack can hold his arm in there and still have it attached.

RATING: 8 out of 10

Seaboe Muffinchucker
October 17th, 2011, 07:59 PM
This is, if not the last, very near the bottom of my list of Stargate episodes (top being favorite, bottom being the opposite). Watching the parts of it I could stand to watch, it occurred to me that part of what I don't like is how fast everything wrapped up. Jack's first mission on his new command and he IDs the traitor.

Seaboe

Krisz
October 19th, 2011, 04:52 PM
"Shut up Daniel!"

Wonder how many times Jack wanted to say that to Daniel, but didn't because he knew Daniel was invariably, irritatingly right! It was still said with some feeling despite it not being his true intention! LOL!

With this one I can put aside all the convenience of finding the mole in the SGC so quickly, and not one of SG-1 questioning what was going on, for the sheer fun of watching Jack play against all he believed in. His cheeky irreverence for things at times came into play wonderfully here.

Loved how he just hit Newman in the jaw, probably to make him feel better for trying to shoot him in 'Touchstone' !!! :D

I'm thinking the question of Jack keeping his arm in the event horizon was that the gate wouldn't shut down as a failsafe before the entire of whatever it is goes though the event horizon. The MALP fell back completely into the event horizon so that is why it was destroyed. This does however beg the question of whether it would still close down after 38 minutes and take Jack's arm off!

So in 'A Hundred Days' Teal'c only had to leave the rope dangling in the event horizon to keep it open, or does it only apply to living matter? OK that's too much thinking for my brain cell?!!! :eek:

Seaboe Muffinchucker
October 19th, 2011, 06:30 PM
So in 'A Hundred Days' Teal'c only had to leave the rope dangling in the event horizon to keep it open, or does it only apply to living matter? OK that's too much thinking for my brain cell?!!! :eek:
The wormhole shut down after 38 minutes in 'A Hundred Days'.

Seaboe

GrendelsMom
October 20th, 2011, 07:20 AM
I guess my take is that the rest of the team is too stunned to believe it (or not).

And maybe someone's already pointed this out, but when Jack's out on the deck listening to opera music, he's also reading Mad magazine (how Jack!)

SG3Marine
October 20th, 2011, 11:54 AM
I do think Mayborne trusted O'Neill way to quickly, maybe a two parter would have spaced it out better. And I kinda liked Colonel Makepeace (he had a cool name!) so I didn't like how he was the mole.

hedwig
October 20th, 2011, 12:07 PM
I do think Mayborne trusted O'Neill way to quickly, maybe a two parter would have spaced it out better. And I kinda liked Colonel Makepeace (he had a cool name!) so I didn't like how he was the mole.

Agreed. I liked Makepeace too; but, then, it's usually the likeable ones that turn out to be the mole or bad guy or whatever. Even the actor who played Makepeace was annoyed that his character was the mole.

garhkal
October 22nd, 2011, 09:21 PM
If makepeace was NOT the mole, who would you rather it have been?

Lieutenant Sparrow
October 23rd, 2011, 03:54 AM
Can't believe I fell for it the first time I watched this ep. Didn't fall for it this time though :)

Overall an entertaining ep. Always great to see the Asgard, no matter how briefly.

liminoid
October 25th, 2011, 10:26 PM
Did absolutely nobody catch the "Hello...Newman" Seinfeld spoof in this episode? Classic!

mathpiglet
October 26th, 2011, 08:52 AM
Yes, I caught it liminoid.

I guess I'm in the minority but it did seem plausible that Jack would retire. After all he was retired at the beginning of season 1. After his experiences in the previous episode, I thought he might have changed enough to want to go back there, or at least have a life somewhat like that. He may have felt completely worn out.

I think Sam and Daniel would fall for it in that situation.

Jae'a
October 26th, 2011, 10:34 AM
Can't believe I fell for it the first time I watched this ep.
I fell for it too. :P I though it was very convincing. Awesome ep! :D

My LiveJournal post (http://jo-r-lee.livejournal.com/16987.html)

Matt G
October 26th, 2011, 03:00 PM
5pm and another ep of SG1..

1. Jack nicks a device from the Tollan! *raises eyebrows* Jack rants at Hammond like that! :confused::eek:

2. Rewatching the ep - Jack's behaviour seems really fake but first time around, I'd assumed he'd been brainwashed or something. I mean, the Goa'uld could have scrambled his neurons to incapacitate him and knock the SGC out of whack!

3. I also assumed that this was an arc that would play out for a few eps untill the SGC discovered what was wrong with him.

4. As it was, having Makepeace regular ally of SG1 and leader of the SG-Rescue squad turn out to be dodgy...:eek:

5. Having said that, one I worked out what Jack was up to, well having him wrap everything up that quick wasn't such a big deal, I mean the sooner this stuff was dealt with the better right?

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
October 26th, 2011, 04:59 PM
Awesome episode, another top 5 episode of Season 3.

So the Tollan won't return until halfway through Season 5 (I think).

Notes:

Jack and Hammond really sold the whole stole technology from the Tollan (would've had me convinced)
Love the Effect of the Gate, when Jack steps through and immediately enters on the other side
That BGM during the "Asgard are attacking and taking their stuff" was very generic. I think this might be the final episode that music for an episode was not composed by our friend Joel Goldsmith.


Tomorrow, SG-1 pisses (can I even say that word) someone off, and because if it they get held captive.

Brother Freyr
October 26th, 2011, 09:58 PM
Some thoughts:


The first time I watched this episode, I too thought Jack was brainwashed or suffering a mental breakdown. At first. Later, of course, the game is fairly obvious.

This is an episode in which the things we know of the real world robs the story of some of its power. We know Jack can't leave SG-1 for long, because we know it's a T.V. series that still has RDA on contract. So, instead of being shocked by Jack's retirement, we search for the game that is afoot.

Matt G
October 28th, 2011, 03:12 AM
If the story had played out over a few eps we would have still seen Jack for a scene or two probably hence he'd be earning his contract.

Starscape91
October 29th, 2011, 12:57 AM
It was kind of stupid that everyone thought O'Neill went rogue, but it was still a good episode.

jelgate
October 29th, 2011, 05:11 PM
It was kind of stupid that everyone thought O'Neill went rogue, but it was still a good episode.

Thats a pain of being a fan. We know how the inroads work. And that him having a change in status would have been known months in advance.


I like this episode not for Jack faking to go rogue but just because I have always been interested in the rogue NID agency and how they function. We got a some more insight in their political structure like we now know for certain Maybourne is their leader. Before we just had a guess. Also we learned more the reasoning behind the rogue NID. I do not agree with it but I understand with their actions. It was just overall a good way to see them opperate and how far they had gone down. Best of all was seeing Makepiece as the traitor. I remember the first time I saw that I was shocked he was the mole in the SGC. Although since thier was incriminating evidence I have to wonder why Maybourne wasn't arrested either.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
October 29th, 2011, 05:46 PM
Although since thier was incriminating evidence I have to wonder why Maybourne wasn't arrested either.
It is implied in Water Gate that he was but escaped, which is why he's working for the Russians. However, nothing about Maybourne in this period is ever clarified. We know that he must have been arrested at some point, or he wouldn't have been in prison, on death row for treason (which, btw, is highly unrealistic).

Seaboe

jelgate
October 29th, 2011, 06:01 PM
It is implied in Water Gate that he was but escaped, which is why he's working for the Russians. However, nothing about Maybourne in this period is ever clarified. We know that he must have been arrested at some point, or he wouldn't have been in prison, on death row for treason (which, btw, is highly unrealistic).

SeaboeIt never said that in Watergate. I always thought he was on death row for revealing the Stargate program to the Russians

Brother Freyr
October 29th, 2011, 07:39 PM
we now know for certain Maybourne is [NID's] leader. Before we just had a guess.Maybourne led the off-world operation, but I never perceived him as leader of the entire rogue NID.


I always thought he was on death row for revealing the Stargate program to the Russiansyes

jelgate, how in the world did you make nearly 30,000 posts?! :eek:

jelgate
October 29th, 2011, 07:44 PM
Maybourne led the off-world operation, but I never perceived him as leader of the entire rogue NID.

I guess a more accurate definition would be rogue NID stationed off world.


yes

jelgate, how in the world did you make nearly 30,000 posts?! :eek:

GW was a different place back in 2007. A very active opinionated place with so many discussions and debates.

Also it helps to have no personal life.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
October 29th, 2011, 08:21 PM
It never said that in Watergate. And I never claimed that it said that. I said it was implied, which I still believe it is.
I always thought he was on death row for revealing the Stargate program to the RussiansMy problem with the believability of the treason conviction is that in real life, in the U.S., it is practically impossible to be convicted of treason, especially without an accusation that you were advocating the violent overthrow of the government--something I can't see Maybourne ever advocating.

Seaboe

jelgate
October 29th, 2011, 08:33 PM
And I never claimed that it said that. I said it was implied, which I still believe it is.
Implying is a long way from making something true

Seaboe Muffinchucker
October 30th, 2011, 08:41 AM
Implying is a long way from making something true
So? We never get to see what happened to Maybourne between Shades of Gray and whatever the title of that other episode is. All he ever says is that he is on death row for treason. My interpretation of what is said and done in the intervening episodes is no less valid than yours.

I believe the implication is that after Shades of Gray he had to get out of the country fast; he went to the Russians so he could continuing working with the Stargate. At some point after Watergate (possibly as a direct result, possibly not), he was captured and put on trial.

Seaboe

jelgate
October 30th, 2011, 09:23 AM
So? We never get to see what happened to Maybourne between Shades of Gray and whatever the title of that other episode is. All he ever says is that he is on death row for treason. My interpretation of what is said and done in the intervening episodes is no less valid than yours.

I believe the implication is that after Shades of Gray he had to get out of the country fast; he went to the Russians so he could continuing working with the Stargate. At some point after Watergate (possibly as a direct result, possibly not), he was captured and put on trial.

Seaboe

Thats true and exactly my original point in the Shade of Gray review. I wasn't talking about speculation. Fans do that that all the time for information. I was wondering in a canon source which was never established

Seaboe Muffinchucker
October 30th, 2011, 10:03 AM
I was wondering in a canon source which was never established
Sometimes written communication sucks for figuring out these subtleties, doesn't it?

Sorry for my part in the confusion.

Seaboe

dtheories
October 30th, 2011, 01:38 PM
"So, just to clarify..."

The Tollan offer to send a ship for Jack when stranded on Edora, but a scenario in which Jack steals their technology is supposed to make sense to his team?
Makepeace, the Marine who saved SG-1's butts several times and is apparently unaware of Jack's involvent in the shadow program based on his expression when Jack requests a return trip to Edora, is strong enough to helm SG-1 but apparently no longer useful to the show?
And Maybourne goes from drop-in-anytime-Harry to rogue NID leader overnight?
No matter.
The episode is important to me for one thing; the Jack and Daniel relationship.
After being so harsh with Daniel due to the house bugs, even Jack couldn't maintain eye contact as he watched the emotions race across Daniel's face as he's learning that he's lost his only true friend. The small payback at the end about drawing straws lightens the mood, but these two show how delicate friendships really are and how easily we can wound another, even if we begin with only the best intentions.
Fair Day!

Lt.Colonel John Sheppard
October 30th, 2011, 02:25 PM
I just saw the episode and loved it.

As for the debate on whether we should be more aggressive in acquiring technology, I think what the SGC did in this episode was correct. The Asgard, Tollan and Nox are all powerful allies and provided we had a strong enough alliance with them they would be willing to help us defend ourselves if we were attacked. I would rather have this situation as opposed to some of their technology and these races distrusting and ignoring us. Even if we got the technology we might not even be able to use and understand it because it could be far too advanced. I say we steal all the Goauld technology but keep allies friendly because their help in certain situations is better than access to their technology.

I also think the Tollan are right about what we would do with any technology we acquired. Who is to say that if the US were threatened by China for example they wouldn't use alien technology. If the threat was big enough they would. The SGC may have good intentions but I don't trust a Government that would do anything to stay in power.

I think over time, as relations between these races grow stronger we will eventually gain their technology as we learn how it is to be used. E.g. not against each other but only as a last resort to protect ourselves from hostile invaders. However, humans seem destined to destroy each other and this doesn't look like changing anytime soon.

Brother Freyr
October 30th, 2011, 07:03 PM
Well said, Lt.Colonel John Sheppard!

garhkal
November 4th, 2011, 01:32 PM
"So, just to clarify..."

The Tollan offer to send a ship for Jack when stranded on Edora, but a scenario in which Jack steals their technology is supposed to make sense to his team?

There is a difference using your tech to help out, and giving your tech up..

Dave2
November 9th, 2011, 01:04 PM
Why wasn't Maybourne arrested along with his operatives???
And since O'Neil used the excuse of Edora and Laira, what in fact happened with her and the people of Edora??

hedwig
November 9th, 2011, 02:22 PM
Why wasn't Maybourne arrested along with his operatives???
And since O'Neil used the excuse of Edora and Laira, what in fact happened with her and the people of Edora??

We never heard anything about either of those questions (except that Maybourne somehow wound up in Russia at some point after this episode).

I'm sure Laira found some other guy to become involved with and have children with. And she and her villagers lived happily(?) ever after once they were reunited. :)

hedwig
November 9th, 2011, 02:28 PM
It was kind of stupid that everyone thought O'Neill went rogue, but it was still a good episode.

Especially having it come up immediately after his return from Edora in the previous episode (100 Days), where he'd been for over three months and completely out of contact with anyone on earth.

fems
November 9th, 2011, 02:30 PM
Especially having it come up immediately after his return from Edora in the previous episode (100 Days), where he'd been for over three months and completely out of contact with anyone on earth.

On the other hand, it could be argued that because of his three-month 'vacation' without having to risk his life day in day out and (re)building a simpler life he went rogue...

hedwig
November 9th, 2011, 02:34 PM
On the other hand, it could be argued that because of his three-month 'vacation' without having to risk his life day in day out and (re)building a simpler life he went rogue...

Either way, it's surprising to me that his team fell for it - in spite of his attitude toward them.

Dave2
November 9th, 2011, 04:00 PM
Isn't it worth noting that stargates are almost always located in some forest, and not, say in downtown or at the local Pentagon? Did Maybourne ever get to steal a sarcophogus from the goa'uld? It would put the medical industry out of business!!

Dave2
November 9th, 2011, 04:43 PM
Why did Hammond tell O'Neil that if he returned to Edora to live out his retirement he'd be "GDO" and unable to return to Earth?? Why would he be different than Jacob Carter?

hedwig
November 9th, 2011, 05:21 PM
Why did Hammond tell O'Neil that if he returned to Edora to live out his retirement he'd be "GDO" and unable to return to Earth?? Why would he be different than Jacob Carter?

Because of what Jack supposedly did by stealing technology and being forced into choosing retirement as an alternative to being sent to jail. Having a GDO is what allows the person controlling it to send the code to earth to allow the iris to be opened.

Jacob is an ambassador to earth through the Tok'ra and is a friend of earth, and thus entitled to have a GDO. Jacob has done nothing wrong to be excluded from having a means of returning to earth with the use of a GDO.

Of course, General Hammond was only saying that as further proof to anyone who was listening that Jack had turned rogue and was being punished (and didn't really mean it).

Dave2
November 11th, 2011, 10:04 AM
And amazingly, neither General Hammond or Jack cracked a smile or messed up their little arrangement, even during that week or so that Jack was in his house doing literally nothing.


Because of what Jack supposedly did by stealing technology and being forced into choosing retirement as an alternative to being sent to jail. Having a GDO is what allows the person controlling it to send the code to earth to allow the iris to be opened.

Jacob is an ambassador to earth through the Tok'ra and is a friend of earth, and thus entitled to have a GDO. Jacob has done nothing wrong to be excluded from having a means of returning to earth with the use of a GDO.

Of course, General Hammond was only saying that as further proof to anyone who was listening that Jack had turned rogue and was being punished (and didn't really mean it).

Seaboe Muffinchucker
November 11th, 2011, 10:54 AM
And amazingly, neither General Hammond or Jack cracked a smile or messed up their little arrangement, even during that week or so that Jack was in his house doing literally nothing.

I would assume they were both practiced at this type of deception. Also, Jack was not "doing literally nothing." He was playing chess, listening to music, sleeping, eating, dressing etc.

Seaboe

Dimes
December 27th, 2011, 02:54 AM
Very good episode!
Actually I loved it ^^

sholva1
March 26th, 2012, 12:23 AM
Kind of lame. The Nox and the Tollan do not share technology nor will they fight the Goa'uld. Taking tech from them is justified imo

garhkal
March 26th, 2012, 11:46 AM
So you feel our mantra should have been :"please share tech with us, or we will just steal it".
In which case, what would have made us different from the Gou'ald then?

Sam-n-Jack-in-<3
July 26th, 2012, 02:09 PM
Best part in this episode?

When the stolen stuff gets 'beamed' up by the Asgaurd and Jack says they're gonna start taking people...and when they step through the gate they're surrounded by security personnel.

garhkal
July 29th, 2012, 03:53 PM
Makes me wonder what the Asgard would have done with anyone they would have beamed up..??

Girlbot
July 29th, 2012, 04:06 PM
I would have thought that they would wait longer than a week to see if Jack O Neill was really ready to help. I felt they should have followed him longer than that.

garhkal
July 29th, 2012, 10:09 PM
Maybe they were on a time table... who knows.

sheaget
December 17th, 2012, 05:29 PM
Not sure if this is where I should ask this... On the DVD, when you go to the episode menu, there is always a picture (relevant to the episode) beside the menu. For Shades of Grey, the picture is this (http://i50.tinypic.com/9swkt3.png).

It's usually obvious what the picture has to do with the episode (what scene it came from), but in this case I am stumped. Who is this guy and where does he appear in the episode, or what does he even have to do with it? Thanks!

Seaboe Muffinchucker
December 18th, 2012, 08:10 AM
Good question. So far as I'm aware, he's not in the episode.

Seaboe

hedwig
December 18th, 2012, 02:49 PM
Not sure if this is where I should ask this... On the DVD, when you go to the episode menu, there is always a picture (relevant to the episode) beside the menu. For Shades of Grey, the picture is this (http://i50.tinypic.com/9swkt3.png).

It's usually obvious what the picture has to do with the episode (what scene it came from), but in this case I am stumped. Who is this guy and where does he appear in the episode, or what does he even have to do with it? Thanks!

This picture is not from "Shades of Grey". It is most likely from "Touchstone" or even "Spirits", but it has absolutely nothing to do with "Shades of Grey". Whoever put the DVD pictures with episodes goofed up when posting that picture.

sheaget
December 18th, 2012, 05:11 PM
Thanks, Seaboe & hedwig. I had thought it was a mix-up, too, and checked out a few other episodes but never found the guy. I should have done more digging before I posted, I suppose. Turns out this guy is a Tiernod, which are the race of people that inhabit PX3-595 where Jack/Newman stole the Asgard invisibility device. I think it must have ended up a deleted scene, so we never got to actually see them in the episode. Ah well, mystery solved. Can sleep now. Thanks again.

Major Clanger
May 1st, 2013, 07:36 AM
ah the Sneaky Beaky episodes, how I love them. And <3 Harry Maybourne <3 I lurve him too.

Not a bad ep at all although I do wish they had built up a bit more of the alienated Jack for a few more eps before this.

I love how "Edgy" the rogue team is - with their black vests, midriff revealing gear and ripped off sleeves. Like a bunch of rebellious teenagers.

They did annoy me by going on their mission with no gear at all. That's not very military at all and made me Very Cross Indeed.

Falcon Horus
June 7th, 2013, 02:17 PM
Hello Maybourne, what have you been up to lately?

He started a new hobby -- collecting alien technology.

Not entirely sure about this one and Maybourne seemed to fall way too easily for Jack's sudden fall from grace.

It's always nice to see the Asgard, not so fond of the Tollan.

The way the three look at the end when Daniel confesses they drew straws and he lost. :p

j7n
December 16th, 2013, 01:30 PM
Stargate Command likes to keep tabs on who goes and comes to the entire planet. SGC is part of the government after all. I feel this was their primary motivation for exposing the team not under their control, and not ethical standards. There are all these stargates out there, just like the Internet, that should be available to anyone, including to pirate stuff through.

But humans always travel from Earth throught he tightly controlled base, and always return to it. And the SGC will spend resouces to keep it this way. And the writers, part of the U.S., also write the government as a "necessary" power. Like when they went to bring back or kill (!) the Lieutenant in Atlantis. Same thing.

Humans would have been more resilient against threats if they had many bases (like a peer-to-peer network). Take for example the episode with the black hole. Sgt Boyd had no other option but to dial Earth, transmit the GDO code (which did have enough time to arrive), then wait for an ACK, which could not be decoded on their side. A much better choice, and safer to the Earth, would have been to go to another stargate.

If I had come from Earth, and was familiar with what the government can do, I would have always taken my chances against the Asgard. They might instantly "disintegrate" me with some advanced weapon or drop off onto a primitive planet, but hardly ever in prison.

I Am Not James Spader
May 26th, 2015, 02:11 AM
I liked this episode, but it was so glaringly obvious from the first briefing that it was all an undercover job that the writers shouldn't have bothered with the cliche angle of pretending and maybe shown us Hammomd and O'Neill meeting covertly or something.

Still, it was good.

The lack "physical interaction" is starting to get annoying now - in previous seasons an SG-1 member would fall, have their head sucked into a computer or be impaled and the rest would stand around looking bemused or perplexed instead of running to help. In this episode, Jack punches the second in command and strolls to the Stargate and none of the dozen or so, very tough looking soldiers around him do anything to stop him or even react surprised.

Makes that that background soldier in URGO (the "who me" guy as Jack is shouting at the invisible Dom deLuise) kind of stand out as spectacular. :)

Anja
September 11th, 2015, 05:03 AM
Loved it especially the last bit about 'picking straws'.
Nice appearance of Thor looking wise and worried - as far as a puppet can look that way.

Nirude
May 19th, 2016, 05:50 AM
Loved the exchange between Hammond and the team at the beginning after Jack stole the device. Even though Hammond was in on it, he played it so innocently that I couldn't help but laugh at how ridiculous it was. Obviously it's clear early on that it's a set up, but they did the right thing by not revealing it until the end.


Loved it especially the last bit about 'picking straws'.
Nice appearance of Thor looking wise and worried - as far as a puppet can look that way.

He was worried? Looked like he didn't care either way IMO, "What the hell am I doing here?" :P

maneth
May 25th, 2016, 08:11 PM
It's been a while since I last saw this episode, and I honestly didn't remember about the setup until the end. It was very well done.

AlmostAntique
May 26th, 2016, 07:52 AM
I'm wondering if they're really "picking straws", cause they were really annoyed by Jack, his behaviour, and nobody wanted to talk to him, or did they just pull his leg (after resolution) because they weren't involved in the plan? :o

Anja
May 27th, 2016, 03:11 AM
Perhaps they had orders not to talk to him - so they let chance decide.

Tyrathraxus
June 13th, 2016, 10:29 PM
I was always a bit sad that it was Makepeace who was the NID guy.. along with Maybourne.

Im more aggrieved really that while we never saw Makepeace again, we got a very long redemption arc for Harry. Both were great characters for the show, and while I could believe Maybourne selling out to 'save Earth' I found it very hard to agree with the reasoning about Makepeace.

Anja
June 14th, 2016, 02:19 AM
The moment of surprise was used - the fans were supposed to be sad or angry or whatever!

lgm89
June 14th, 2016, 03:22 AM
I was always a bit sad that it was Makepeace who was the NID guy.. along with Maybourne.

Im more aggrieved really that while we never saw Makepeace again, we got a very long redemption arc for Harry. Both were great characters for the show, and while I could believe Maybourne selling out to 'save Earth' I found it very hard to agree with the reasoning about Makepeace.

Maybourne had a more distinct personality, plus the actor had great chemistry with RDA and while Makepeace was okay, He was pretty much interchangeable with all the other Sg team leaders who popped up over the years, IMO.

Tyrathraxus
June 14th, 2016, 05:56 PM
Im inclined to disagree about Makepeace, but to be honest , Sg-1 always struggled to keep hold of the actors for the other SGC roles. You rarely saw the same leaders for the other SGC units. Hell Ferretti was never seen again after Season 1 and yet he was one of the original Stargate team.

I think Steve Makaj and Makepeace brought a lot to the SGC, and the Surprise to me wasn't there. The fact the Jack went rogue , the fact they brought in Colonel Makepeace (and to be honest.. what is a bet they already KNEW he was guilty), made a big target for the audience on his back. I was actually hoping they were going for a double switch to fool the audience but it never came.

Laxian of Earth
January 30th, 2018, 10:15 AM
So, I am re-watching Stargate (SG-1) ATM and I almost forgot commenting on this one:

I loved this episode (and frankly: For a soldier Jack should have acted like this more often, Hammond should have IMHO supported him (for a General he's quite liberal in views IMHO (He's a freaking Daniel who signed up for the military and was good enough at it to earn promotion to General!)...then again I think Hammond shouldn't have agreed to shut the SGC down at the end of season one! He should have called all SG-Teams together and he should have informed them of the president's decision and then he should have asked for volunteers to go off world (to Daniel's coordinates!), this way they might have freaking captured two motherships right there and then! Hell, they could have gone to another destination to keep fighting the good fight!) and Sam and Teal'c, too (Daniel? No, too much of a bleeding heart, fairness etc. is too ingrained and stealing is always wrong to him...unless you steal from the Goa'uld maybe!))

I always woundered why there were no black-ops in the black-ops program (operations that the SG-Teams don't know about - plausible deniablility (so that allies like the Tok'ra and the Asgard never learn about those black ops, not to mention the Goa'uld) and all that!) and no intelligence gathering missions (why not plant spies among the natives of a lot of worlds to hear some news etc.)...they depended on Tok'ra-Intelligence (who only gave them the bare minimum!) too much!

Hell, there were very few outright strike missions as well (their war was freaking one sided, they only reacted to what the Goa'uld might be doing!)! Thor himself said that the Goa'uld could send a force 100 times the strength of what Apophis had brought to Earth (and that's probably when the Systemlords are holding back to still defend their territories adequately, so that nobody can easily take them over!), which means 200 Motherships (!)...thus Earth was truly in need of superior technology (if you can't match the quantity, which they can't, then they need something that is truly superior!)

greetings LAX

StargateMillennium
January 30th, 2018, 02:01 PM
I loved this episode (and frankly: For a soldier Jack should have acted like this more often, Hammond should have IMHO supported him (for a General he's quite liberal in views IMHO (He's a freaking Daniel who signed up for the military and was good enough at it to earn promotion to General!)...
There are a lot of people in the military like this. While they have openly said Hammond was a bit soft (reference Gen Bauer was an example of someone who was a bit more strict), the military aren’t brutes with guns who believe in victory at any cost. They just tend to air on the side of practicality. Stealing technology and pissing off potential allies is not practical. You’ll get way more help by tolerating their refusal to give tech and making friends.


then again I think Hammond shouldn't have agreed to shut the SGC down at the end of season one! He should have called all SG-Teams together and he should have informed them of the president's decision and then he should have asked for volunteers to go off world (to Daniel's coordinates!), this way they might have freaking captured two motherships right there and then! Hell, they could have gone to another destination to keep fighting the good fight!) and Sam and Teal'c, too (Daniel? No, too much of a bleeding heart, fairness etc. is too ingrained and stealing is always wrong to him...unless you steal from the Goa'uld maybe!))
It wasn’t an agreement. His funding was about to get pulled. Also, none of them at the time even completely believed Daniel’s story. Even in the next ep, SG-1 nearly didn’t go because they were still skeptical about his story. And even if they did send a team that agreed to be potentially court martialed and dishonorably discharged, it’s highly unlikely they could have commandeered those ha’taks. Considering each ha’tak can carry over 2k troops even if every person in the SGC went they’d be horribly outnumbered. Also, at the time, Daniel would’ve been more willing to keep on fighting than any one else considering he just watched Earth get glassed.



I always woundered why there were no black-ops in the black-ops program (operations that the SG-Teams don't know about - plausible deniablility (so that allies like the Tok'ra and the Asgard never learn about those black ops, not to mention the Goa'uld) and all that!) and no intelligence gathering missions (why not plant spies among the natives of a lot of worlds to hear some news etc.)...they depended on Tok'ra-Intelligence (who only gave them the bare minimum!) too much!
What exactly are they going to do with a black ops program? The concept of black ops is essentially when you want to get something done that’ll piss off a lot of people (usually friends and allies sometimes less than friendly people you want to avoid going to war with). So you send them out, celebrate if they succeed and if they fail or get caught you disown and condemn and hunt them down as a show of good faith. The Trust could easily be considered black ops (notice how they never go after the Trust unless they do something that pisses someone else off). Also, the Tau’ri can’t exactly use spies. If they want to get information from locals, they can just ask. And it’s hard to get information from slaves since slaves are kinda meant to be kept under constant watch to prevent escape. Maybe a slave with a communication device but extraction would become impossible. And they’re both unreliable sources of information. It’s like asking a civilian about troop movements. The only good way to get info is by posing as a Goa’uld or a Jaffa and try to work the way up the ranks. The issues is they can detect the presence of a symbiote. Sure if you slap on an outfit with a helmet maybe with a head tattoo they might not pay that close attention to you but the moment you get close to them (which you have to do if you want to infiltrate their ranks) they’ll realize you have no symbiote. The Tok’ra and rebel jaffa are the best source of espionage.



Hell, there were very few outright strike missions as well (their war was freaking one sided, they only reacted to what the Goa'uld might be doing!)! Thor himself said that the Goa'uld could send a force 100 times the strength of what Apophis had brought to Earth (and that's probably when the Systemlords are holding back to still defend their territories adequately, so that nobody can easily take them over!), which means 200 Motherships (!)...thus Earth was truly in need of superior technology (if you can't match the quantity, which they can't, then they need something that is truly superior!)
Strike missions are done with a purpose. There is no purpose to doing a strike mission against the Goa’uld willy nilly. Considering how vast their hold is, even if you run sabotage missions against ship factories, all you really do is piss them off.

Laxian of Earth
January 30th, 2018, 04:43 PM
So outnumbered that they couldn't use choke-points, superior weapons (the staffweapons are even worse in tight quarters) like machineguns with hundreds of rounds, grenades etc.? Hell, Teal'c probably could have vented the sections of the ship they didn't occupy once they've reached the peltak!

What will they do with a Black-Ops-Program? Run NID-Style snatch and grab operations (from offworld bases!) and gathering of important information!

Why can't they? If the language is the problem, then ask Daniel (and others like him!) to teach said language! Otherwise I see no reason why they can't!

If they had intel they'd have targets for strike missions :) - and if they did use staffweapons only then the Goa'uld would be hard pressed painting the Tau'ri as the culprits (in fact they'd point fingers at each other, especially if they always take a few jaffa, put them on ice and then leave them after the next successfull mission!)

greetings LAX

StargateMillennium
January 30th, 2018, 06:49 PM
So outnumbered that they couldn't use choke-points, superior weapons (the staffweapons are even worse in tight quarters) like machineguns with hundreds of rounds, grenades etc.? Hell, Teal'c probably could have vented the sections of the ship they didn't occupy once they've reached the peltak!
At the time, Teal’c openly stated he didn’t know how to operate a Goa’uld Ha’tak. And while Earth gear held a distinct tactical advantage of jaffa gear, jaffa aren’t paper machae. Numbers do make a difference and we’ve seen plenty situations where jaffa can steam roll Earth forces with the right number and those times involved far fewer than two thousand jaffa.



What will they do with a Black-Ops-Program? Run NID-Style snatch and grab operations (from offworld bases!) and gathering of important information!
Those aren’t black ops. That’s just intel gathering. Black ops is if the government was like “Hey, we want technology but our alien allies won’t give us technology. So we’re going to hire guys from the NID to steal for us technology. But if they get caught, we can tell the SGC to hunt down the ‘rogue operatives’ and save face” Black ops is a covert opt where if things go south the guys in charge disown the people involve and leave them out to dry. Black ops are covert ops where if things go south you can't let the other guys know you were involved.



Why can't they? If the language is the problem, then ask Daniel (and others like him!) to teach said language! Otherwise I see no reason why they can't!

Locals and slaves won’t give good information other than ‘I once saw some jaffa over there’. It’s like me asking you for specific troop movements of your country’s military. They can’t do spies because both Jaffa and Goa’uld can sense the presence and lack of a symbiote. Yeah, if they tossed on suit of armor and kept their distance it could reduce suspicion maybe avoid getting caught for a few hours. But an espionage mission often lasts years. No way the spy never moves within close proximity to another jaffa or Goa’uld in that period of time. So a Tau’ri cannot act as a spy among Goa’uld ranks.



If they had intel they'd have targets for strike missions :) - and if they did use staffweapons only then the Goa'uld would be hard pressed painting the Tau'ri as the culprits (in fact they'd point fingers at each other, especially if they always take a few jaffa, put them on ice and then leave them after the next successfull mission!)

The question goes back to: for what purpose? You don’t toss lives and equipment into something unless you know for sure it can achieve something of value. So you send in a spec ops team and busted up a Goa’uld weapons depot. Great, that’s like one of a hundred on that planet alone and probably one of thousands of planet across the entire Goa’uld domain. And that's not including the people that will be lost in the process. Your losses are not equaling your returns. It’s like asking you to topple an oak tree by kicking it. Yea, enough kicks over a long enough period of time will eventually knock it over. What you’re getting is not worth the energy going into it. If you had intel like “Hey, there’s a big invasion being prepared on this planet” then you have something worth targeting. All you can really do is sit on the information and see if something worth hitting develops. And that's what they didThe Tok’ra had been running operations like that for thousands of years to no avail. In fact it was so extreme that even offing system lords was doing nothing for a period of time. Not to mention the focus was on finding better technology to defend Earth since winning a war against the Goa'uld in their current condition was impossible. They allocated more resources into finding new technology.

Laxian of Earth
February 1st, 2018, 09:31 AM
They retconned T being unable to fly a Ha'tak (he'd make a ****ty first prime if he can't fly a ship!)

Indeed that's black ops 1o1, that's why I believe that the NID was far from rogue, sadly they never tried again (or they weren't caught - because we never heard about this again!)

Finding technology? Good one, more like "not finding technology" because they didn't manage to optain that much at first (a true military operation would have grabbed really everything, they'd stockpile staff-weapons (maybe even use the internal components in an earth-made shell to have their own energy-weapons at a fraction of the cost that making your own costs!))

greetings LAX

StargateMillennium
February 1st, 2018, 02:17 PM
They retconned T being unable to fly a Ha'tak (he'd make a ****ty first prime if he can't fly a ship!)
Two completely different and unrelated jobs. The piloting a large craft is the job of a helmsman, not your elite warrior. If you want to situate your first prime on a ships, he'd be the commander, not the driver.



Finding technology? Good one, more like "not finding technology" because they didn't manage to optain that much at first (a true military operation would have grabbed really everything, they'd stockpile staff-weapons (maybe even use the internal components in an earth-made shell to have their own energy-weapons at a fraction of the cost that making your own costs!))

They did have a stockpile of staff weapons (a handful at the SGC and more at Area 51). They just didn't use them much. In fact they stocked on a decent amount of Goa'uld tech. The only thing they found useful was the zat. And doing what you suggested is only beneficial in the short run. You are completely dependent on the enemy for your weapons and advancements in the weapons. If they break for whatever reason, you have no idea how to fix them. If you want your reskinned staff to be better like more accurate or fire faster you need to wait until the Goa'uld do that. The staff didn't provide any overwhelming tactical advantage so it was a better option to cart them to Area 51 to study and make their own directed energy weapon. Now they can make them in bulk, control how they advance and develop over time, and you always have someone how knows exactly how they work.

Laxian of Earth
February 1st, 2018, 03:56 PM
Are you telling me that they can't figure out how a staff-weapon works? I see the staffs more as "off the shelf" components, meaning that you can upgrade them etc. (maybe even by adding or tweaking the parts before you put them into a human made shell) but you save a ton of cash by not just having piles of staff-weapons lying around gathering dust!

greetings LAX
ps: I am not saying Teal'c wouldn't be kind of wasted flying a Ha'tak, but we've seen other first primes fly ships so I don't think Teal'c never learned (and later on it wasn't brought up again, so I think it's a retcon that Teal'c says he can't fly one...hell, Bratac could and he was Teal'c's teacher, so I don't think he never showed him!)

StargateMillennium
February 1st, 2018, 04:47 PM
Are you telling me that they can't figure out how a staff-weapon works? I see the staffs more as "off the shelf" components, meaning that you can upgrade them etc. (maybe even by adding or tweaking the parts before you put them into a human made shell) but you save a ton of cash by not just having piles of staff-weapons lying around gathering dust!
They can figure out how they work but that requires dedicated study. Which means tearing the things apart, tweaking features to see what happens, and intentionally breaking things. They can't just tear out the inner workings of a staff, slap an M16 shell over it, and say they know how it works. I can remove every drive in my laptop and put it into a different one and not understand the assembly language inside. If they want directed energy weapons then they should study the staff weapons they got and make their own based on its design. The only reason they would start bringing staffs or reskinned staffs into battle is if it provided some major tactical advantage, which it doesn't. That's why they use zats. Yeah, they have some at Area 51 being studied but it provides immediate returns so they use some of the ones they get their hands on. The staff weapon does not provide the same returns. It was a cheap weapon made to be used in numbers. Yeah, it's a bit more pricey to pump out new guns and ammo but SG teams but they're now better off in a fight.




ps: I am not saying Teal'c wouldn't be kind of wasted flying a Ha'tak, but we've seen other first primes fly ships so I don't think Teal'c never learned (and later on it wasn't brought up again, so I think it's a retcon that Teal'c says he can't fly one...hell, Bratac could and he was Teal'c's teacher, so I don't think he never showed him!)
It depends on the job requirement. We don't know the history of each jaffa. For all we know Bra'tac was once a helmsman when he was younger or maybe at one point of time he was taught. He is much older than Teal'c and Teal'c was later taught how by the Tok'ra. Same with Her'ak. In all likelihood, the First Primes were elites selected from different fields (helmsmen, glider pilots, ground troops) who proved they were capable on the battlefield. The ones who could fly Ha'taks were simply helmsmen before. But there's nothing in the First Prime job description that lists "fly a Ha'tak" as a job requirement.

Laxian of Earth
February 2nd, 2018, 05:26 AM
I haven't said so, but IMHO it would be kind of negligent not to teach them so that they can fly a ship if they have to (not teach them to do it well, but enough to get the job done...kind of like teaching your machine-gunner on a Humvee to drive if the driver takes a hit!)

Yes, they should have "broken" staff-weapons (they had enough of them after all) to figure them out and if need be:

Scale them up to make staff-cannons (I bet they didn't have that many of those!) or even arm ships!

greetings LAX

StargateMillennium
February 2nd, 2018, 07:30 AM
I haven't said so, but IMHO it would be kind of negligent not to teach them so that they can fly a ship if they have to (not teach them to do it well, but enough to get the job done...kind of like teaching your machine-gunner on a Humvee to drive if the driver takes a hit!)

A better comparison is that not all Navy Seals can pilot ships or aircraft. They're all part of the navy but it's not part of their job so it's not part of their basic training.



Yes, they should have "broken" staff-weapons (they had enough of them after all) to figure them out and if need be:

Scale them up to make staff-cannons (I bet they didn't have that many of those!) or even arm ships!


They did study them, both broken and not-broken. That's how the x699 was born. Energy artillery weapons would be next in line.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
February 2nd, 2018, 07:32 AM
I haven't said so, but IMHO it would be kind of negligent not to teach them so that they can fly a ship if they have to (not teach them to do it well, but enough to get the job done...kind of like teaching your machine-gunner on a Humvee to drive if the driver takes a hit!)

So, in the Air Force, do they teach everyone to fly, on the principal that it would be negligent not to? I don't think so. It's too large an investment (time, training, manpower) for too little return.

Seaboe

Laxian of Earth
February 4th, 2018, 05:27 PM
No, I never said so! Still it doesn't make sense that we see other first primes (including Bratac) fly ships (Teal'c does so later, too!) and Teal'c supposedly wasn't taught (Apophis would never be satisfied with an inferior "product" to the first primes of the other systemlords!)

greetings LAX

StargateMillennium
February 4th, 2018, 07:00 PM
No, I never said so! Still it doesn't make sense that we see other first primes (including Bratac) fly ships (Teal'c does so later, too!) and Teal'c supposedly wasn't taught (Apophis would never be satisfied with an inferior "product" to the first primes of the other systemlords!)

greetings LAX

It depends on the job requirement. We don't know the history of each jaffa. For all we know Bra'tac was once a helmsman when he was younger or maybe at one point of time he was taught. He is much older than Teal'c and Teal'c was later taught. Same with Her'ak. In all likelihood, the First Primes were elites selected from different fields (helmsmen, glider pilots, ground troops) who proved they were capable on the battlefield commanders. The ones who could fly Ha'taks were simply helmsmen before. But there's nothing in the First Prime job description that lists "fly a Ha'tak" as a job requirement. To say a First Prime is a bad First Prime because he can't fly a ship is like saying Navy Seal is a bad Navy Seal because he can't sail a naval ship. A helmsman can become a Seal. A Seal could learn the skills of a helmsman. But a Seal doesn't need to be able to sail a ship.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
February 5th, 2018, 08:24 AM
I haven't said so, but IMHO it would be kind of negligent not to teach them so that they can fly a ship if they have to
How is this not saying so? How is this different from saying (because StargateMillennium's example was better than mine) that all Navy Seals should be taught to fly "just in case"?

It's about the best use of resources, which isn't to teach people who will most probably never need to know, how to use expensive & sophisticated equipment.

Seaboe

Falcon Horus
February 17th, 2018, 08:15 AM
(Fifty) Shades of Grey is actually a rather boring episode, if I may be so honest.

It's okay, not bad, but just a little too boring for my taste.

Okay, so Colonel O'Neill pretends to have it with the soft take on acquiring technology by the SGC and decides to go rogue with Maybourne in a ploy to catch the latter and his rogue team in the act and arrest them all for high crimes. And that's about it. I'm even surprised they managed to fill 42 minutes with this.

This was a filler, wasn't it. It sure feels that way to me.

I did like that shot of O'Neill stepping through the stargate in the SGC and emerging right after through the one on Edora, where the DHD is still showing the signs of having to be patched back up after the fire rain event. I really liked that continuity.

Beyond that, it's just meh for me...

How would you rate SG-1's "Shades of Grey?"

Excellent
Good
Fair
Poor
Terrible

Falcon Horus
March 2nd, 2018, 04:36 AM
3-episode quiz: Urgo, A Hundred Days & Shades Of Grey (https://goo.gl/forms/XZRguaThh7O701Oj1)
Jigsaw puzzle: Shades Of Grey (https://www.jigidi.com/solve.php?id=931483XK)

My time: 08:21 (not for reference, cause I know people faster than I am)

jelgate
March 4th, 2018, 03:19 PM
Its not a filler FH because it develops the rogue NID arc. I'm of two minds with this episode. I can't decide if I like or hate this episode. On one side I like that we learn more about the rogue NID as a more practical aspect of Earth. On the other side its totally unbelievable that Jack was ever going rogue. No one should be able to believe what he said because it was obvious a sham. I call it a poor because Im feeling negative today

Falcon Horus
March 5th, 2018, 12:11 PM
On the other side its totally unbelievable that Jack was ever going rogue. No one should be able to believe what he said because it was obvious a sham. I call it a poor because Im feeling negative today

See, I didn't buy that either... not even Daniel. Not even an inkling -- they should have an inkling.

jelgate
March 16th, 2018, 05:22 PM
7 minutes and 56 seconds. I was afraid for a second

Who Knows
March 17th, 2018, 12:51 AM
Not going to tell this time, suffice to say twice as long as you two

Falcon Horus
March 18th, 2018, 12:50 PM
Twice as long -- you clearly take your time.

BethHG
June 25th, 2018, 03:43 PM
I am not going to watch this-- I hate betrayal situations, even if it is a sham. I really don't want to get angry.

Falcon Horus
June 27th, 2018, 03:27 AM
I am not going to watch this-- I hate betrayal situations, even if it is a sham. I really don't want to get angry.

Kinda like how I will never watch Demons again. :p

jelgate
June 27th, 2018, 02:57 PM
Or Heroes:P

Falcon Horus
June 28th, 2018, 01:58 AM
Or Heroes:P

Nope, that I will watch at least once more... Once more.