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GateWorld
April 27th, 2004, 10:30 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s3/315.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/graphics/315.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#666666">DISCUSS ...</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0066BF"><B>PRETENSE</B></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 315</FONT>
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The Tollan put Skaara and Klorel on trial to determine who will control the host body.

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Boomer359
May 24th, 2004, 01:27 PM
Well, this is an interesting episode, if not a little annoying.

I 've got a real problem with the Tollan. They seem too stuck up even for a people who's last planet was destoryed because they shared technology. I'd think that they'd be able to see that there wouldn't be much harm in sharing some medical knowledge or some other type of benign social technology. After all, a lot inventions and technological innovations are derrived from existing technology that seemingly has no connection.

That's not really my problem with this episode, though. Skaara is my problem. I just don't like the way the actor portrays this character. He seems very whiney...

Mr Prophet
May 24th, 2004, 02:26 PM
Damn straight. I mean, what's he got to complain about?

So his sister was kidnapped, possessed and forcibly married to an alien warlord; his mind was raped and his will stolen by an inhuman force, driving him to try and destroy everyone he knew and cared for; his body had been used to commit numberless atrocities and his mind subjected to the memories of millennia of slaughter. Who hasn't had days like that?

Boomer359
June 1st, 2004, 09:37 AM
I just meant that the actor played him as something of a wuss.

Everything about the character is much more robust in Full Circle.

Mr Prophet
June 1st, 2004, 10:01 AM
Everything about the character is much more robust in Full Circle.

Well, that's therapy for you. I mean, come on; what do you expect him to do? Laugh it off.

Anubis
June 1st, 2004, 10:41 AM
A good episode, but it got a bit dull after about the first half hour. Good to see that Korell/Skarra was involved though

elhSG1
June 1st, 2004, 12:18 PM
I liked this episode, of course the Tollan were a bit annoying. What is it with those people anyways?! But, it was nice to see them finally get that snake out of Skarra.

Boomer359
June 2nd, 2004, 09:35 AM
Well, that's therapy for you. I mean, come on; what do you expect him to do? Laugh it off.
Of course not. But even his voice is different. It's just a much better characterization.

Skarra had a certain composure every other time we'd seen him. He had it in combat with O'neill on Abydos and while a prisoner of Apophis on Chulak. In this episode, however, the character comes off as whiney where before he came off as somewhat steadfast in the face of mortal danger.

Maybe its just an acting fluke; maybe it can be attributed to the device the character wore in the episode; but I just don't like the way Skarra was played in "Pretebse."

Mr Prophet
June 2nd, 2004, 10:58 AM
But how would you feel? Yes, we know he can stand up to mortal danger, but this isn't danger. He's seen himself do horrible, terrible things; blast Daniel, maybe order the death of whole races. Physical courage is one thing, but it's another kettle of fish to expect him to be unaffected by being the unwilling destroyer of a thousand lives.

Crazedwraith
June 5th, 2004, 08:39 AM
I was a bit confused about Koreel and Zipicarna.
Korel line about i'll make you pay for waht you did to my father.And the fact Zippy "was" Apophisis servant.

Do Zippy and Kotrell now Apophisis has taken control of Sokar's forces?

Was Zippy sent by Apophisis to get his son back? Or was he there at that the order of the system lords? Or was he doing on his own? To get an ally and an aide to greater power?

Elwe Singollo
June 5th, 2004, 08:38 PM
I was a bit confused about Koreel and Zipicarna.
Korel line about i'll make you pay for waht you did to my father.And the fact Zippy "was" Apophisis servant.

Do Zippy and Kotrell now Apophisis has taken control of Sokar's forces?

Was Zippy sent by Apophisis to get his son back? Or was he there at that the order of the system lords? Or was he doing on his own? To get an ally and an aide to greater power?I was wondering the samething, maybe he just happen to be in the area...

Mr Prophet
June 6th, 2004, 12:47 AM
Zipacna was serving Klorel at the time, and presumably Apophis had not yet made his return known. The fact that he is still alive seems to be news to everyone in Maternal Instinct.

Anubis
June 6th, 2004, 02:30 AM
Good to see that Apophis returned though

Elwe Singollo
June 6th, 2004, 07:42 AM
Good to see that Apophis returned thoughYah me too :)

Anubis
June 6th, 2004, 08:01 AM
Ok, littlemigueljr, you keep replying to too many threads and I can't keep up with them all! lol

Elwe Singollo
June 6th, 2004, 08:10 AM
Ok, littlemigueljr, you keep replying to too many threads and I can't keep up with them all! lolAre you following me ?! Shock, juss kidding :)

Anubis
June 6th, 2004, 08:15 AM
Not following you, just that your name keeps popping up at the end of the threads for last poster! lol

Elwe Singollo
June 6th, 2004, 08:17 AM
Not following you, just that your name keeps popping up at the end of the threads for last poster! lolOh, ;) very nice to know... And yah, i'm wondering why that happens... hahah...

Anubis
June 6th, 2004, 08:18 AM
If I refreshed a thread with your user in it generally that post count just keeps increasing! lol

Elwe Singollo
June 6th, 2004, 08:19 AM
If I refreshed a thread with your user in it generally that post count just keeps increasing! lolSo does yours! :) Maybe if i take a one minute break, my name won't be the 'last poster' or something :)

Anubis
June 6th, 2004, 08:29 AM
I have to agree, mine goes up by the half minute I think! lol If I took a one minute break there would be too many posts to look at. I already have two windows open looking at posts

Elwe Singollo
June 6th, 2004, 08:32 AM
I have to agree, mine goes up by the half minute I think! lol If I took a one minute break there would be too many posts to look at. I already have two windows open looking at postsYes, very very many posts... :) Especially in one-minute :)

Anubis
June 6th, 2004, 08:36 AM
Well, I think I'm going to log off in a few minutes, overdone my stay! lol

I'll return again this evening

Elwe Singollo
June 6th, 2004, 08:40 AM
See you later :)

OK

Back to the topic of discussion :)

Anubis
June 6th, 2004, 08:48 AM
I decided I'm not leaving . . . yet. But will soon

Elwe Singollo
June 6th, 2004, 09:27 AM
I decided I'm not leaving . . . yet. But will soonI left for a while :)

Ok, back to the topic...

How exactly is Korel spelled? All this time i thought it was 'Klorel'... haha...

Selmak
July 10th, 2004, 08:59 PM
we get to see the nox again and that's good enough for me.

SeaBee
July 20th, 2004, 04:14 PM
I liked this ep, but would love to slap the Tollen, superior acting people make my fist itch.

Selmak
July 26th, 2004, 07:00 PM
I thought to Tollen did not have a Goa'uld problem... hoe did they have that device for Korel.

DeLancey
August 1st, 2004, 04:51 AM
They created it.
They didn't have a Goauld problem but they knew of them.

VirtualCLD
August 3rd, 2004, 06:18 AM
SPOILERS for this Episode




Towards the end of the episode, why did the hidden Ion Cannon not fire?

Uncle Dick
September 20th, 2004, 11:04 PM
SPOILERS for this Episode




Towards the end of the episode, why did the hidden Ion Cannon not fire?
I was under the impression that the cannons had been BOTH marked for destruction and temporarily disabled in a way that the arrogant Tollan overlooked. Note that the cannons did not immediately fire at the mothership even though there was a significant delay between Zippy's signal to the ship and the actual destruction of the cannons. Those devious Gou'ald…

Speaking of cannons, was that device a bit of an homage to the ion cannons that defended the Hoth base in Empire Strikes Back? They looked too similar to be coincidence. ;)

Rewatching this episode, it's amazing how many lines Teal'c used to get, even in episodes focused on other characters. Maybe watching too much Earth television dumbed him down over the years until the present, when he seems incapable of saying anything beyond "Indeed".

LMichelle
November 10th, 2004, 01:29 PM
Did anyone else think it was a conflict of interest that Daniel would be acting as one of Skaara/Klorel's Arcons (sp?)? He is his brother-in-law. Did the Tollan's not know that? :confused:

Skaara seemed happy to see Jack, but where was the love for Daniel? Daniel did live on Abydos for a year with him. I'm assuming Daniel told Skaara about his sister. :(

Lisa Michelle

Madeleine
November 10th, 2004, 01:43 PM
I don't think it would have been a conflict of interest. Those are when a supposedly neutral party has close ties to one side, or when someone nominally on one side has loyalties with the other side as well. Daniel's efforts and his loyalties pointed in the same direction, and the Tolans and Lya pretty much took it for granted that Daniel's biases were in Skaara's favour.

I think the writers often tended to forget that Skaara was related to Daniel, or even that he was related to Sha're or Kasuf. His lack of brotherly regard for Daniel is matched by Kasuf's lack of interest in Skaara's whereabouts in Secrets. Oh well.

greytop
November 10th, 2004, 02:33 PM
SG-1 could use couple of the those things that they had on Skaara/Korel.

Dead Jawa
January 9th, 2005, 08:01 PM
SG-1 could use couple of the those things that they had on Skaara/Korel.

I always thought the Tollan were a little to paranoid with shareing their tech. Afterall, I don't think the nations of Earth are not that greedy enough to blow each other up over a Goa'uld Suppressor. The ion cannons yeah but not that.

Tauri
January 9th, 2005, 09:01 PM
If only the Tollans shared that device.
If they had shared, then next time the SGC had a Goa'uld in custody they can find out useful intel from the host. This would have been a powerful advantage.

Good one Tollans. :rolleyes:

Mr Prophet
January 10th, 2005, 09:16 AM
In all fairness, I'm pretty sure that the SGC never asked for one. Anyway, it's not so much about what it is as what it can teach you. In the Dr Who story, Colditz, the Nazis won the war because they got hold of the laser in Ace's CD walkman. What exactly do you think the rogue NID would do with the technology to suppress conscious thought?

Evil Emperor Zurg
March 15th, 2005, 11:28 AM
I didn't really like this epsiode although it does wrap up the Skarra/Klorel story I think it was odd we didn't see how Skarra dealed with going back to Abydos. I mean it wasn't until Full Circle that we saw him again. It was almost a case of ok you've been enslaved and done many terrible things but it's all right now you can go home. That never quite sat right with me :(

SmartFox
March 17th, 2005, 08:07 PM
Wow nice spamming Anubis and Elwe. You guys combined for almost half of this topic. But back to this ep. Glad we get to see atleast Skaraa back since Sha're was just killed. Still can't believe those selfish and stuck up Tollan still won't share stuff with us even though we saved their butts.

SilverRider
March 17th, 2005, 08:15 PM
I wonder who told Skaraa of Sha'ra's death. Daniel or Jack?

Albion
March 18th, 2005, 03:01 AM
I think the writers often tended to forget that Skaara was related to Daniel,

Yes, that's a lack I've often noticed, not just in this episode. The bond between Skaara and Jack is well documented, but Daniel might as well be almost a stranger half the time. It's not just that they're related either - they've spent a long time living together in close proximity while Daniel was on Abydos, between the events of the movie and the pilot of SG1. That has to count for something. Yet look at the scene in Pretense when Skaara greets Jack and Daniel on Tollana. It's Jack he treats like a brother. With Daniel there's barely a flicker of a connection.

There are couple of things that I always find myself wondering on when I watch this episode. Firstly, the whole triad seems a bit of a waste of time as it's a foregone conclusion that the advocates (sorry can't remember the Tollan word) for each party will vote for their man. Only Lya's vote is at all relevent and capable of making a judgement, so really they should just have cut to the chase at the start and asked her to make the decision. :p

And I'm always fascinated by how the advocates managed to have private consultations with their clients. <g> I mean Skaara could presumably eavesdrop on any conversation with Klorel and Zapacna and relay their triad strategy to Daniel and O'Neill. And vice versa. How they got anything done is a mystery to me.

But I enjoy this episode when I revisit it. It's perhaps not on my A-list of absolute favourites, but it's certainly a B. It has a lot of nice moments in it. Some nice Daniel/Jack relationship during the trial, I love Teal'c's interactions with Lya - and it was just plain nice to see Lya again. I also really enjoyed watching Travell whenever she appeared in an episode. Zipacna was also fun - he had a nice line in sneering. <g>

In fact, I think much of the enjoyment of this one, for me, comes from Lya, Travell, Zipacna and Skaara/Klorel. I enjoyed all of these characters and their performances. The way they constantly butted heads, sometimes subtly, sometimes more overtly, and the way that the various allegiences and alliances swirled around the episode, fluid and shifting.

Oh one thing which really cracks me up is Daniel declaring to Travell that Narim 'didn't explain the triad too well'. LOL. Bit rude. <g> Especially with Narim standing right there at the time.

Narim: No harm will come to you. The Tollan will guarantee it.
Jack: Is that a money-back-if-you're-not-completely-alive guarantee?

Sam: So, you built that… Stargate?
Narim: Yes.
Daniel: Way smarter then we are…
They start walking away
Jack [whispering]: Ours is bigger…

Jack. You gotta love him. :D

Albion :)

ApophisOfTheStargateRealm
April 13th, 2005, 07:39 PM
i have always liked the Tollan and i loved it when the cat went through the Iris... nice touch...

CatGoddess
April 15th, 2005, 08:19 AM
Just saw this episode for the first time.

What Albion pointed out struck me too. How could either Klorel or Skaara have "private" conversations with their respective legal counsels without the other knowing the full content of the conversation?

Also, is it just me? I didn't see anything resembling a DHD by the Tollan gate. Maybe it, like the gate, just had a different design...

I liked the cat too. Don't have a GDO? Send a cat... :)

RubyRed
April 23rd, 2005, 11:42 PM
i like nia's character in this episode i couldn't think of a better person to be anchor than nia. i think sam was very right about nia no crossing a very fine line.

Chaka's_Mum
April 27th, 2005, 04:43 AM
Zipacna was also fun - he had a nice line in sneering. <g>

He did, didn't he? He also had possibly the worst dress-sense of any Goa'uld we've ever seen! I bet Kevin Durand was delighted to find he wasn't going to have to wear a vest, mini-skirt, sandals and thick eyeliner for 'Summit'!. I imagine it was unintentional (after all, who amongst TPTB in Vancouver will have seen 'Rainbow'?), but I couldn't help but be reminded of a certain opinionated orange muppet with a zipped mouth when Jack started calling him 'Zippy'. :D


Oh one thing which really cracks me up is Daniel declaring to Travell that Narim 'didn't explain the triad too well'. LOL. Bit rude. <g> Especially with Narim standing right there at the time.

Not the most diplomatic of statements, was it? Quite surprising that it came from Daniel - he's normally more tactful than that! I'd have gone along the 'has given us a basic overview of triad, but there wasn't enough time to go into practical details'.

Thus spake the civil servant... ;)

QuiGonJohn
May 9th, 2005, 08:29 AM
I liked this one. It really got good when Teal'c went to Lya for help. I just thought that he was going to have Lya do more, like make the Tollan think they were being attacked so they would realize Teal'cs warning was accurate. Still good how it played out.

Believer
May 9th, 2005, 09:16 AM
Just saw this episode for the first time.

What Albion pointed out struck me too. How could either Klorel or Skaara have "private" conversations with their respective legal counsels without the other knowing the full content of the conversation?

Also, is it just me? I didn't see anything resembling a DHD by the Tollan gate. Maybe it, like the gate, just had a different design...

I liked the cat too. Don't have a GDO? Send a cat... :)

Just a thought. As the Nox can open the Gate without a DHD, perhaps the Tollan can as well. Remember, it was the Nox who rescued the Tollan from Earth and settled them on their new homeworld.

Chaka's_Mum
June 20th, 2005, 06:00 AM
I liked this one. It really got good when Teal'c went to Lya for help. I just thought that he was going to have Lya do more, like make the Tollan think they were being attacked so they would realize Teal'cs warning was accurate. Still good how it played out.

To be honest, I would have been most surprised if Lya had agreed to undertake such a deception. She, like her fellow Nox, is completely committed to pacifism - and would not (not could not, would not) take any action whatsoever that would provoke overt aggression in another; not even if that aggression was solely to counter the aggression of an external party. I think that makes sense if you don't read it too many times... ;)

Instead, by keeping that one ion cannon hidden from Zipacna's sabotage parties, Lya has simply ensured that the Tollan have the means to choose their own fate in extremis - even if it was Teal'c who got the thing to fire in the end. She hasn't fired the weapon herself, nor has she personally and directly provoked anyone to do so. It's a bit of a tight squeak, but her conscience is clear. And those pesky Goa'uld are defeated yet again. Hurrah! :D

Perriman33
August 10th, 2005, 11:49 AM
A good storyline but OMG those Tollan people really annoy me (I'm quite glad about what happens to them later) the gits. TPTB really enjoy these schizophrenic episodes (two people one body), and they do it well I enjoyed the courtroom battle. I thought 'Zippy's' :D arguments were quite good. And any episode with the Nox in gets full marks. They are everything the Tollan's should be, considering they both hate war etc. I was happy for Skaara he escaped at klorel at last. A good ending to his story. :)

Chaka's_Mum
August 10th, 2005, 11:06 PM
Oh yes - that tiresome superiority complex they have.

Their motives for denying a less advanced civilisation access to their rather exciting, whizz-bang technology are sound - it's just the awfully patronising way that they express their refusals; not to mention the veiled insult in using the word 'inferior'. :mad:

Much as I like Narim, and although the Tollans are technically (pardon the pun) our allies, you don't half enjoy the moment when their smug superiority gets them into bother and SG1 - admittedly with Lya's help - have to step in to save their butts. :cool:

Perriman33
August 11th, 2005, 11:47 PM
Yeah, narim is like martouf ,the one redeeming quality for both their races.(I still count jacob as human for some reason)
I suppose they have to have a bit of variety for the different peoples but I'm amazed the tollans got to this technology level without stealing some of it or having loads of enemies wanting to pummel them to death. ;)

Stricken
September 8th, 2005, 03:42 AM
Good episode although the Tollens a real pain in the backside!

Ascendant
September 8th, 2005, 11:02 PM
Best.
Opening sequence.
Ever.
Ohmygosh.

There's that one long shot with the glider running away from the motherships, then I'm guessing they had to blow up a couple of trees and a bunch of dirt before adding in the CG glider crashing down. Wicked.


Also, is it just me? I didn't see anything resembling a DHD by the Tollan gate. Maybe it, like the gate, just had a different design...
Maybe they use those little touchy-slidey hand devices like the Asgard use in the season 5 finale. Old Cassandra used one in 1969, too. At any rate, I thought it was SO COOL that they build their own stargate.

I like the Tollan because they're an obvious parody of the characters in Star Trek and their Prime Directive. It's almost a rebuke to an idea that I've always had a problem with. Like "See, this is what the other guys feel like!"

Love this episode. Tollana is a gorgeous world, and I love the little pools of glowy water set into the archetecture. It's also a happy ending to the original quest (i.e. getting Skaara and Sha're back), something that was much-needed after Sha're's death. It does seem a little halfhearted, though, almost anticlimactic. I guess it's because the focus was more on saving the Tollan's lives. Still, the Goa'uld attack - any episode with death gliders rocks.

Oh, and one more thing - I just got the Battlestar Galactica miniseries on DVD, and I was surprised to see Tollan show up in the second scene with that blonde bombshell. They showed that area with all the pillars holding up the overhang, as well as that little square pond in the middle of a lawn. And the more I think about it, the more sure I am that they used that same location (on the other side of the pillars, looking down that long flight of steps towards the huge overhang) in the Andromeda episode "The Prince."

It's totally off-topic, but in the scene previous to that in the Battlestar Galactica DVD there's a hidden Firefly ship cruising through the skies of their homeworld. It was just a rather weird series of cameos that left me feeling like all science fiction shows were linked in some mysterious cosmic way.

But anyway, yeah. Great episode!

walter_MacChevron
September 15th, 2005, 09:11 PM
I dont like the Tollans much or this episode...........it does not seem memorable because i have watched all episodes from S1 to S7 three times and i can not remember one minute from this episode

adk06
January 29th, 2006, 07:13 PM
personally I liked this episode
and I thought the tollan just wouldn't trade weapons technology?
I mean we never really did ask for anything else, (at least it didn't show us asking for anything else)

I also found it funny when there weapons are disabled Oneill makes a fuss and Carter says "Sir based on what i've seen in the last 5 minutes it doesn't look like they would do much good anyway"
I mean since the Tau'ri haven't upgraded to energy based weapons in all that time meaning that a bullet is just as good as a energy weapon, except the tollan probably have defensive shileds that could block bullets

captain jake
May 18th, 2006, 04:29 PM
personally I liked this episode
and I thought the tollan just wouldn't trade weapons technology?
I mean we never really did ask for anything else, (at least it didn't show us asking for anything else)

The main focus of the sgc is military weapons.

Sheppard
July 20th, 2006, 12:26 AM
yeah that is true

Chaka's_Mum
July 20th, 2006, 11:59 PM
personally I liked this episode
and I thought the tollan just wouldn't trade weapons technology?
I mean we never really did ask for anything else, (at least it didn't show us asking for anything else)

I think the Tollan won't trade any form of 'superior' technology with an 'inferior' race (their description, not mine;) ). Sooner or later even the most innocuous scientific breakthrough gets considered for its military potential. They've been down that road before and ended up watching another civilisation destroy itself as a result.

I suspect that background diplomatic activity between Earth and Tollana has probably raised the issue of sharing/taking on technology for non-military uses (and been rebutted just as firmly as Jack keeps on being). Given that seeking out and securing alliances/technology from off world sources for defence purposes is one of the goals of the Stargate Programme it's perhaps inevitable that we'd only see the search for weaponry/shield technology when SG-1 go asking. Besides, Jack really fancies one of those Ion cannons! :jack_new_anime18:

tommiekins
August 8th, 2006, 06:47 PM
Another fantastic episode of season 3. I really like the Tollen and to see Skaara again is fantastic, but having Lya in this episode is just brill. I love the Nox and can't believe they haven't been in more episodes, but still, there are more (hopefully many more) to come!

stimpy77
February 18th, 2007, 05:06 PM
Funny blooper in this one. In one shot, the camera looks down from the ceiling at Skaara, as his arms are outstretched with his hands on the platform. In the next shot, with the camera behind him at an angle, someone asks him a question while his hands are together in sort of a praying pose. In the next shot, the camera faces him directly while his arms are outstreteched again.

I backed up the DVD and couldn't help but laugh at it because there wasn't even a split-second clip of someone else's expression to fill in a gap. His arms jumped instantly from the "praying" position to outstretched.

Must be a Goa`uld host super power or something. ;)

Harlan's Speechwriter
June 24th, 2007, 04:01 PM
I liked this episode, even if the Tollan were, once again, unbearably arrogant and it was obvious that the Goa'uld contingent weren't going to play by the rules.

I found the Goa'uld arguments during the Triad interesting to think about. I don't agree with the principles (if they can be called that) which the Goa'uld live by, but their case was still well put. I'm sure that real-life trials have sometimes been won with a case less convincing than this.

cavalierlwt
August 15th, 2007, 07:23 PM
I think Zipacna is the most obnoxious Goa'uld ever! Kudos to the actor playing him, I really just wanted to see O'Neill or Tealc just smash that arrogant sneer off his face, LOL.

Spoiler below:






My big question is how did Tealc know how to 'activate' that ion cannon at the end? It looked like punched some sort of code in and the thing started working. It's not like the Tollan's technology would be known to anyone, especially not a former Jaffa.

garhkal
August 24th, 2007, 05:51 AM
Perhaps they were shown which buttons to push when they had the Tolan there, trying to alert them to what Zippies' jaffa were up to.

Pharaoh Hamenthotep
September 4th, 2007, 10:42 AM
When SG-1 were trying to tell the Tollan that the Jaffa were marking the cannons for targeting, Teal'c was watching one of the Tollan people using the control panel on the cannon.

I watched this episode about an hour ago and just realised how much Zippacna looks like my Aunt! I don't think I'll be able to keep a straight face next time I see her!

Theimmortaljedi
September 8th, 2007, 07:44 AM
Maybe it is your aunt from an alternet reality.

Pharaoh Hamenthotep
September 22nd, 2007, 03:43 PM
Maybe it is your aunt from an alternet reality.

:lol: maybe, there is something goa'uld-ish about her! And not just because her eyes glow! :p

Theimmortaljedi
September 22nd, 2007, 07:24 PM
lol. look for an entry wound

Integrabyte
December 29th, 2007, 09:56 AM
:lol: maybe, there is something goa'uld-ish about her! And not just because her eyes glow! :p


See if she responds when you say KREE!! That will confirm many things :D

Crichiel
January 20th, 2008, 08:24 PM
I always think I like this ep less than I do. I always remember it as being slow and talky, but when I watch it, I really get into the arguments from both sides. I think it was really well done, and though of course you agree with Jack and Daniel's argument more, the writers really made the Goa'uld's point of view valid to a degree as well. I also think bringing in the character of Lya was inspired! Not an episode I pull out over and over, but one that I like to watch when I run across it on tv.

Teddybrown
April 2nd, 2008, 12:05 PM
I think this was a quite good episode
The Tollan are very arrogant and i think they should have given us some sort of technolgy for saving them
They eventually do in Season 5 but the technology is useless against the Goa'uld. They are also apparently destroyed in this episode ( Between Two Fires )
Finally got the Goa'uld out of Skaara and nice to see him and the Nox again
Hope to see the Nox more
Skaara was played quite well I think
Also nice to see a sort of trial of who should get the body and the Goa'ulds arguments of why they take hosts and why they should stay. They are valid and we get to see the Goa'ulds point of view
Overall quite a good episode

captain jake
June 30th, 2008, 06:56 PM
Definitely one of my favorite Stargate episodes of all time. Lya and Teal'c save the day, I wonder if the other Nox ever found out that Lya was responsible for the destruction of a Goa'uld mother ship. I suppose it wouldn't matter if they did, the Nox probably have no prisons or discipline measures.

I also have to ask why Apophis didn't accompany Zipacna's forces in order to save his son Klorel. After all he does control the single largest fleet in the galaxy, it would be in his interest to retrieve the knowledge of the Tolans. I suppose it is possible that Apophis wasn't aware of what was going on, but you would think being the leader of a giant empire would prevent things from getting past you.

Ulkesh47
July 4th, 2008, 09:16 PM
Definitely one of my favorite Stargate episodes of all time.

Mine too! This and "Fair Game" are my two favorite Season 3 episodes.

captain jake
July 4th, 2008, 10:47 PM
Mine too! This and "Fair Game" are my two favorite Season 3 episodes.

I agree Fair Game was a very good episode, I'm not sure which one I liked better.

HelloVelo
July 5th, 2008, 02:44 PM
Do you think Sam kept Schrodinger?

My Rating: 7/10

Full Review: http://stargatesummer.blogspot.com/2008/07/pretense.html

captain jake
July 6th, 2008, 04:36 AM
Do you think Sam kept Schrodinger?

My Rating: 7/10

Full Review: http://stargatesummer.blogspot.com/2008/07/pretense.html

No, I don't think she kept the cat she probably gave it back.

L E E
July 10th, 2008, 12:29 AM
Lots of things I liked in this episode.

The triad. I love the arguments made by all the parties involved.

The goa'uld getting their pounded by the Tollan ion cannons. I love space battles and exploding motherships.

Skaara. So happy that he's free!

Lya. I always love seeing the Nox.

Tollan's planet and their tech. Ion cannons. The Tollans are so advanced they can construct their own stargate. Wow. Are they almost the same level as the Ancients? Will they be the 5th race?

Zippy and his wacky costume and make-up. This is one goa'uld that really annoys me.

Ulkesh47
July 16th, 2008, 08:14 PM
Skaara. So happy that he's free!

Perhaps the only flaw of this episode (and it's a minor one) is that at the end when Skaara is freed, he doesn't salute Jack. That would have been perfect.

SG1FanOregon
August 5th, 2008, 06:39 PM
This was a good episode I loved seeing Skaara saved, & seeing the Nox aren't beyond helping when they can :tealc: This episode did leave me with the impression that the Tollan just made the Goa'ulds "to do" list though

pritnep
August 29th, 2008, 06:45 PM
Awesome episode, the special effects were really cool. I simply love the opening sequences.

Good to see Skaara not his body back. The Goa'uld certainly did have some good arguments in the trial.

You could see how the Tollan's arrogance could very well eventually be there undoing.

Great episode. :)

ZoSo
September 2nd, 2008, 10:09 PM
Best.
Opening sequence.
Ever.
Ohmygosh.



Totally agree. So cool how the ion cannons come up from several different places on Tollana and converge on each mothership. And then later how the camera follows the projectile up to the mothership. The final explosion was kind of a let-down, though. You can totally tell they just ran out of money and blew up a model in a studio.

You really see how ignorant the Tollen are when the citizens just walk up to a crashed deathglider like that with no weapons.

Black_Sheep
September 4th, 2008, 06:15 PM
Great episode! Awesome opening i agree. It was great to see Lya again, she's soooo cute! :D ...It was also nice to see Tollan's again, and especially their planet. I wonder what Skaa'ra is up to now? he's probably going to live with the people of Abydoss again?

Lisbet
September 23rd, 2008, 03:45 PM
How did the cat get past the iris? Narim was wearing the phasing device, the cat wasn't.

Did he hold on to a few spare hairs on the cat's tail?

L E E
October 4th, 2008, 08:03 PM
Totally agree. So cool how the ion cannons come up from several different places on Tollana and converge on each mothership. And then later how the camera follows the projectile up to the mothership. The final explosion was kind of a let-down, though. You can totally tell they just ran out of money and blew up a model in a studio.

You really see how ignorant the Tollen are when the citizens just walk up to a crashed deathglider like that with no weapons.

i've read somewhere about complacency being a death of civilizations or something to this effect. and i think its true. at least in tollan's case.

General Yogi Bear
October 5th, 2008, 12:02 AM
How did the cat get past the iris? Narim was wearing the phasing device, the cat wasn't.

Did he hold on to a few spare hairs on the cat's tail?

ha...maybe he (Narim) extended the effects of the device to form a sub space bubble around the cat creating a dilation effect several times the magnitude of a normal temporal loop which help transfer him the cat through the wormhole unharmed by the iris...or maybe the iris has a small doggie or cat door for pets

balo
February 20th, 2009, 09:00 AM
I liked this episode , especially because we see both Skaara and Lya in this one.

Teal'c and Lya saved the planet and I loved the Ion cannons .
I wish the arrogant Tollans would give their technology to Jack.

I think the writers forgot Daniels friendship with Skaara....

Rating : 7 / 10

amconway
February 21st, 2009, 08:56 PM
I think the writers forgot Daniels friendship with Skaara....

Agreed. It was very odd that Skaara just walked by Daniel, his friend and brother in law, who had acted as his archon, to greet Jack. The only reason for it that I can think of, is that they wanted to end the episode on an upnote. Daniel and Skaara would certainly have talked about Sha're, meaning that Daniel would have had to tell him that she was dead, and there goes the happy ending.

gateship15
February 21st, 2009, 09:16 PM
this was a great episode and i agree if they were going for a happy ending jack and Skaara would have been the better way to go

Butlersgate
February 23rd, 2009, 03:14 PM
the nox did something useful *shock horror* ;) love that episode :D

Ulkesh47
February 24th, 2009, 11:24 PM
I love this episode. It would be made even better if at the end, Skaara saluted Jack... Oh, well.

Pic
April 11th, 2009, 03:14 PM
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn229/Pic-CollSwan/SGM/03X15-4.png

Skaara is giggling at this guy's hat, you know he is. I mean, who is really going to take him seriously now?


I had forgotten that Teal'c went to Lya. That's so cool. I'm going to go search for Teal'c/Lya fic now because they were incredibly cute in this episode. ;)

vzzzzzbx
April 12th, 2009, 08:45 PM
Been thinking after watching this episode again, I wonder what happened to Klorel after the symbiote was removed - he was to be sent to a Goa'uld world of his choice but the Tollan gave Skaara full control of the body and erm.. symbiotes can't talk so how was he supposed to choose? Maybe the Tok'ra decided that as the son of Apophis he was too dangerous to be kept alive - it's kind of strange though that the fate of the son of one of the main bad guys was never revealed.

The Stig
April 25th, 2009, 03:06 PM
it was good to see skaara back but no where near as good to dee Jack as a lawyer. This episode made me hate the tollan even more.

lordofseas
May 7th, 2009, 06:24 PM
Love the episode due to the Tollan, Nox, Goa'uld, and Abydonians.

@ The Stig: Why do you hate the Tollan?

Sami_
October 27th, 2009, 10:50 AM
Anyone else think it was cruel to subject a cat to stargate travel? :)

lordofseas
October 31st, 2009, 06:21 PM
Anyone else think it was cruel to subject a cat to stargate travel? :)

Not really.

AresLover452
December 2nd, 2009, 05:40 PM
I loved seeing Schrodinger again.

Then it was funny when Jack said: I feel like I'm being served.

gateship15
December 2nd, 2009, 05:50 PM
lol i feel sorry for scarra because he has been taken over and is now has to prove its his body

AresLover452
December 2nd, 2009, 05:55 PM
and in the end he won and got to be Skaara again.

gateship15
December 2nd, 2009, 06:09 PM
yes that was good because jack was upset about losing him

AresLover452
December 2nd, 2009, 06:23 PM
And then at the end he comes out in the tok'ra clothing. i loved it when Jack hugged Skaara and started to laugh.

gateship15
December 2nd, 2009, 06:25 PM
lol yea. yep me to he really really cared for scaara

AresLover452
December 2nd, 2009, 06:27 PM
i loved skaara... he was so kewl.

gateship15
December 2nd, 2009, 07:00 PM
yes i liked his and jacks relationship. it was almost like he had a son again

AresLover452
December 2nd, 2009, 07:17 PM
It was one of the "Awww" moments.

gateship15
December 2nd, 2009, 07:23 PM
i know i felt bad for jack i mean he lost his son. not only that but to his gun

AresLover452
December 2nd, 2009, 07:57 PM
i'm suprised he didn't eat a bullet himself, but I really glad he didn't cause he gained Skaara and Carter... lol!!

gateship15
December 2nd, 2009, 08:28 PM
me to. i guess he thought his son would of wanted him to live. altho i have a feeling that thats why he might of gone on the first mission thinking he wouldn't come back

Tachyon
December 7th, 2009, 03:59 AM
I like this episode. I like the debate part especially. The Goa'oul dude argued his case pretty well, even though I didn't necessarily agree with him.

gateship15
December 7th, 2009, 09:26 AM
lol he said the body belonged to him i didn't agree either. no one did thats why he lost

AresLover452
December 7th, 2009, 03:57 PM
lol he said the body belonged to him i didn't agree either. no one did thats why he lost


Sry But that was Skaara's body and I'm so glad the 86ed the snake... lol!!

gateship15
December 7th, 2009, 06:16 PM
i agree it was scaaras body i don't think he had a right to it

mrscopterdoc
March 10th, 2010, 10:08 AM
I liked this episode more the 2nd time around for some reason.

StargateWatcher
March 30th, 2010, 09:05 PM
Well, this is an interesting episode, if not a little annoying.

I 've got a real problem with the Tollan. They seem too stuck up even for a people who's last planet was destoryed because they shared technology. I'd think that they'd be able to see that there wouldn't be much harm in sharing some medical knowledge or some other type of benign social technology. After all, a lot inventions and technological innovations are derrived from existing technology that seemingly has no connection.

That's not really my problem with this episode, though. Skaara is my problem. I just don't like the way the actor portrays this character. He seems very whiney...

Yup, the Tollan really are acting illogically by not offering us "peaceful tech" like medical tech. I wonder if they thought we'd misunderstand its workings.

StargateWatcher
March 30th, 2010, 09:57 PM
Oh, and one more thing - I just got the Battlestar Galactica miniseries on DVD, and I was surprised to see Tollan show up in the second scene with that blonde bombshell. They showed that area with all the pillars holding up the overhang, as well as that little square pond in the middle of a lawn. And the more I think about it, the more sure I am that they used that same location (on the other side of the pillars, looking down that long flight of steps towards the huge overhang) in the Andromeda episode "The Prince."

It's totally off-topic, but in the scene previous to that in the Battlestar Galactica DVD there's a hidden Firefly ship cruising through the skies of their homeworld. It was just a rather weird series of cameos that left me feeling like all science fiction shows were linked in some mysterious cosmic way.

But anyway, yeah. Great episode![/QUOTE]

On that topic, that's a building on Simon Fraser University's campus where they filmed fr both BSG n Starg SG-1. Buildin tends to look futuristic.

Girlbot
June 11th, 2010, 11:16 AM
I can't believe the Tollan could be so stupid. a parasite is a parasite and since the host was taken by force there should have been no story here. the Tollan weren't a very morally intelligent race, nor did they have common sense.

King Mayborune
July 17th, 2010, 08:47 PM
Hey, my first post here! Anyway, I was watching this episode last night, and I was struck by something I didn't really think about the first time I watched this. By the Nox own view she says that both lives deserve to live, but life as a slave is no life at all so the body goes to the original owner. So how can she advocate letting the Gould live when we all know that by doing that all this will have accomplished is changing the punishment from Skaara to someone else?

maneth
August 26th, 2010, 12:04 PM
Good point King Mayborune. I guess the only way would be for the Tollan to help the goa'uld to live productive lives without hosts. I loved the B-plot which really showed the treachery of the goa'uld and Lya's elegant solution to hide the cannon.

I noticed the same thing StargateWatcher, and not surprising either since both shows were mainly shot in the Vancouver area. I'm pretty sure the same building is used as the FBI headquarters in The X-files, which was also mainly shot on the Canadian west coast.

Lunaeclipse
September 4th, 2010, 08:46 PM
In defence of Skaara being 'whiney' I saw that as frustration in this episode. He was having to fight for something that he felt was rightfully his to begin with. It must have been a relief for him to have control again, and he may have been afraid that he was going to loose it again.

I'll just be a little bit random here :) I thought it was funny that the best person for the 'impartial' job was named Lya. :)

Darkland
September 9th, 2010, 05:21 AM
Well said Lunaeclipse. I don't think he was that whiney at all. In fact he was trying to fight to stay alive and have complete control of his body, and that to me was worth the effort to whine (of sorts).

LOL @ the Lya comment. haha. :)

Lunaeclipse
September 9th, 2010, 07:58 AM
Well said Lunaeclipse. I don't think he was that whiney at all. In fact he was trying to fight to stay alive and have complete control of his body, and that to me was worth the effort to whine (of sorts).

LOL @ the Lya comment. haha. :)

I think that people also forget that in the movie Skaara was also suppose to be young. In the movie and early in the series he gets called one of the kids. In Children Of The Gods it's only supposed to be about a year or so later, so how old is Skaara supposed to be in Pretense?

Darkland
September 10th, 2010, 03:51 AM
Actually I haven't seen the movies AT ALL so I can't comment. Basically I'm basing my opinion on what I saw in this episode. :)

Lunaeclipse
September 10th, 2010, 02:08 PM
Actually I haven't seen the movies AT ALL so I can't comment. Basically I'm basing my opinion on what I saw in this episode. :)

The movie is awesome. :)

Darkland
September 10th, 2010, 08:05 PM
:) Must go and find a copy of it then. haha

Lunaeclipse
September 26th, 2010, 09:56 PM
I think that people also forget that in the movie Skaara was also suppose to be young. In the movie and early in the series he gets called one of the kids. In Children Of The Gods it's only supposed to be about a year or so later, so how old is Skaara supposed to be in Pretense?

Sorry to quote myself. :) Rewatched it again. It says that Skaara was on Abydos with Ra three years before when Pretense is set.

'Zippy' : "Until three years ago, the humans on Abydos lived under Goa'uld law..."

So I would guess he's still supposed to be young...ish...

LeftHandedGuitarist
October 12th, 2011, 12:39 PM
Not amazing but certainly and interesting episode. It's great to see Skaara again, but I wish he had been utilised a lot more throughout the show. Being back with the Tollan is great, nice introduction of the absolutely ridiculous (but fun) Zipacna, and we get lovely Lya back. Score.

It's just a shame that, outside of the courtroom scenes, it's a pretty dull episode. The little adventure to get the gun emplacements working again is hardly exciting. The point where the episode ends also feels a bit unresolved, I want to know a little more about what Skaara has to say (isn't he curious about his sister), what his plans are now, the SGC's new relationship with the Tollan, etc.

- I like the location used for the Tollan homeworld. It looks like a university campus (is that what it really is?).

- Clever Tollan to build their own Stargate.

- I don't have any understanding of Tollan tech, but it surprised me that Narim was able to come through the Stargate and pass through the iris. The iris apparantly doesn't even allow matter to reintegrate, so that's a little confusing.

- Teal'c is on form in this one.

RATING: 7.5 out of 10

fems
October 12th, 2011, 02:25 PM
- I like the location used for the Tollan homeworld. It looks like a university campus (is that what it really is?).



Yeah, that's what it is, the Simon Fraser University (http://www.rdanderson.com/stargate/location/location2.htm).

LeftHandedGuitarist
October 14th, 2011, 11:41 AM
Nice website, thanks.

Krisz
October 15th, 2011, 08:13 PM
This was an interesting episode that brought together all these different races with their own views of what constitutes intelligent advanced life!

The poor humans of the SGC get the short straw to start with, what with the Goa'uld seeing them as no more than a less intelligent species to be used for whatever purpose they saw fit. Seen as less advanced and 'young' by the Tollan and Nox. Good old human persistence in the face of prejudice from the Tollan and their feeling of smug superiority, and mistrust of the Goa'uld and their singular mindedness in destroying any race more advanced than them and taking their technolgy won out in the end. It saved the Tollan's home world and it was interesting to see the thin line Lya walked when she helped.

It was good to see Skarra freed from his torment as a host. I wonder if the Tok'ra actually took Klo'rel to the agreed planet or did they kill him? It was not in their interest to see the Goa'uld take another host and go back to its evil ways.

I always thought the location had a great futuristic look on screen.

The Tollan's have a web cam too :P

http://www.vancouver.com/webcam-display/65_simon-fraser-university-convocation-mall/

The view from there is lovely too as SFU sits on top of Burnaby Mountain. When the sun catches the windows and the light colour of the concrete its built of in the early morning sun it looks like a futuristic city sitting high on top of the mountain when viewed driving towards it. It's these sorts of things that livened up the drudgery of the commute when I worked in Burnaby. :)

32423

Seaboe Muffinchucker
October 15th, 2011, 08:42 PM
Not an episode I feel the need to rewatch. I did my best, but ended up fast forwarding through quite a bit.

Seaboe

dtheories
October 16th, 2011, 08:25 PM
More than any other ep, Teal'c shows what a leader he is. He knows what is going to happen if he does not act, but persists to think through the problem to find the solution with the best chance of gaining support of a useful ally.

Always wished there were more Tollan eps, on or off "campus" (thanks for the links). Their arrogance was bound to be their downfall; similar to the Asgard and, we must assume potentially the Furlings.

The banners that hung in respective quarters reminded me of Hogwarts more than anything else. Cool sets and design. And honorable mention acting credit must go to Schrödinger. He came through the 'gate on wobbly legs and promptly lay down to nap. Smart feline.

Lieutenant Sparrow
October 19th, 2011, 08:44 PM
Good to see Skaara in this ep. So glad they take Klorel out of him. Wish we saw way more of Skaara as he was one of my favourite characters.

The Tollan are still as arrogant as ever. The Goa'uld attack should have been a big wake up call. Although it's not every day they have Jaffa troops on the planet.

The lasers targeting all the Tollan cannons was cool. The only time we ever see that I believe.

Great to see the Nox as well.

Lunaeclipse
October 20th, 2011, 02:24 PM
Good to see Skaara in this ep. So glad they take Klorel out of him. Wish we saw way more of Skaara as he was one of my favourite characters.

The Tollan are still as arrogant as ever. The Goa'uld attack should have been a big wake up call. Although it's not every day they have Jaffa troops on the planet.

The lasers targeting all the Tollan cannons was cool. The only time we ever see that I believe.

Great to see the Nox as well.

It was just a little disappointing that after the symbiote was removed that he didn't get to help with the fight...

Jae'a
October 21st, 2011, 07:54 AM
My LiveJournal post (http://jo-r-lee.livejournal.com/16183.html)
Finally, Skaara is free again! :D

mathpiglet
October 21st, 2011, 08:43 AM
Yeah, that's what it is, the Simon Fraser University (http://www.rdanderson.com/stargate/location/location2.htm).

At games, the student population gets great delight in shouting "SFU, SFU..."

:D

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
October 21st, 2011, 05:09 PM
So Skaara, The Nox, and the Tollan are back, 3 of our allies, one of whom won't give us any technology of theirs.

A better than average episode. Teal'c help saved the day and the Tollan homeworld from destruction.

So let's see. Skaara won't be back until the final episode of Season 6 (in my favorite SG-1 Episode), the Tollan until the middle of the 5th season. As for The Nox, we'll never see them again in the series.

Monday, we have a really funny episode with the late Dom DeLuise. I look forward to it.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
October 21st, 2011, 06:15 PM
Skaara won't be back until the final episode of Season 6 (in my favorite SG-1 Episode),
I'd never have guessed. :D

Seaboe

jelgate
October 23rd, 2011, 04:58 PM
I have this love for court episodes. I don't care a whole lot about Skarra on trial. Yes that is important but I was more intrigued on seeing how the Tollan justice system works. It was strange and interesting at the same time seeing a justic system so weird compared to ours. That is what drove this episode is watching Daniel and Zipaccna battle one another in forms of law. Although Jack's lack of tact in this episode really irritated me. I also like Lya and Teal'c hiding an ion cannon. It was interesting seeing how a technological inferior species (Goauld)could trump one in stragety.

I don't find the Tollans arrogant as some people claim. Just confident in their technology and unwillingly to share out of fear of destruction.

Matt G
October 23rd, 2011, 05:09 PM
5pm and another ep of SG1...

1. Wasn't expecting to see the Tollan again...but Shrodinger coming through meant only one thing.

2. Sort of liked the idea of triad and was good to see Skaara again!

3. "your argument is flawed...in oh so many ways"(though I've always misquoted it as "your theory is flawed...")

4. Forgot that the cannon didn't work first time around.

5. And Klorel is outta there...:)

Good ep!

Seaboe Muffinchucker
October 23rd, 2011, 05:53 PM
I have this love for court episodes.
OT: There's a very interesting law review article about the system of justice as portrayed in Star Trek. If you're interested, I can try to find the cite

Seaboe

Lunaeclipse
October 24th, 2011, 01:52 PM
5pm and another ep of SG1...

1. Wasn't expecting to see the Tollan again...but Shrodinger coming through meant only one thing.

2. Sort of liked the idea of triad and was good to see Skaara again!

3. "your argument is flawed...in oh so many ways"(though I've always misquoted it as "your theory is flawed...")

4. Forgot that the cannon didn't work first time around.

5. And Klorel is outta there...:)

Good ep!

1. Obviously...:)
2. Agreed :)
3. Loved that quote.
4. ...But Teal'c is awesome... :)
5. And Skaara's smile is back as well... The removal of Klorel from both Skaara, and the planet, to an unknown destination at the time, leaves/left it open for his return...

Brother Freyr
October 25th, 2011, 03:01 AM
I was just glad to see the Nox and Tollan again. So often, we meet promising people and never see them again. (I'm bummed we didn't see a continuing partnership with the Orbonn, the ones who use the nanites in their brains.) It's wonderful to see Lya, and even though Narim is kinda weird, I like the Tollan, too.

Sharing Tollan technology destroyed two whole worlds and changed Tollan society to its core. I can forgive their refusal to share again. Also, Tollans like Narim and Omac eventually suffer greatly to protect Earth. This knowledge helps me forgive their smug attitude. They're not trying to condenscend. Nor are they alone in seeming arrogant to us. Tok'ra anyone? Anyway, the Tollan are okay IMHO.

Starscape91
October 27th, 2011, 11:20 PM
I like this episode not only did we see the Tollan and the Nox, but also Skaara. The only thing I don't like about this episode is Narim he gives me the creeps.

syncline
November 5th, 2011, 02:50 AM
Chiming in slightly late with...

I LOL'ed at how the Jaffa kept marching around in a serious-looking way even though they didn't have anything to do. (I guess it turned out they were doing something, but they didn't have to be walking like that to do it...) On the other hand I'm not sure what else I could picture them doing.

Lunaeclipse
November 6th, 2011, 12:39 AM
Chiming in slightly late with...

I LOL'ed at how the Jaffa kept marching around in a serious-looking way even though they didn't have anything to do. (I guess it turned out they were doing something, but they didn't have to be walking like that to do it...) On the other hand I'm not sure what else I could picture them doing.

lol... I think that's their casual walk. That's how they roll... :D

garhkal
November 11th, 2011, 02:13 PM
I've always wondered, what their military cadence is..

Dave2
November 13th, 2011, 08:18 AM
I like this episode not only did we see the Tollan and the Nox, but also Skaara. The only thing I don't like about this episode is Narim he gives me the creeps.

How about when he morphs as the husband of Dr. Weir in SGA?!

Brother Freyr
November 18th, 2011, 10:47 PM
How about when he morphs as the husband of Dr. Weir in SGA?!

Truly creepy. Never once did he appear in SGA without me thinking, how strange that Dr. Weir married Narim. Bad casting.

Dimes
December 26th, 2011, 04:34 AM
Really good episode!
So glad Skaara " got his body back "
I just love The Nox ^^

AutumnDream
February 29th, 2012, 02:00 PM
As for The Nox, we'll never see them again in the series.

Still sad about that, to this day. I love SG-1 but it could have been greatly improved with better use of strong elements like the Nox, Tollan, the Skaara character, etc. They just got really obsessed with the Tokra and Asgard and focused exclusively on those two, to the exclusion of everything else. The early seasons of SG-1 had this mysterious sense of wonderment about these varied races, their history, and our place in the universe. The Nox alone could have provided so much fascinating material.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
February 29th, 2012, 02:48 PM
No matter what they left out (and they had to leave out something, unless they wanted the show to run 24/7), someone would be disappointed. Them's the breaks.

Seaboe

Sam-n-Jack-in-<3
July 26th, 2012, 01:56 PM
Return of the Tollan!

Thoughts:
-SKAARA! So nice to see him out of the clutches of Klorel!
-Lya's back! *more cheering*
-Jack trying to sound smart is a total riot. He'd make a horrible lawyer.
-Zipacna (sp?) is nasty. He's so slimy and sleazy...just like the snake in his head.

Good episode, but kind of slow in parts. The ending had a nice twist. WTG Lya! :)

garhkal
July 29th, 2012, 03:52 PM
That actor who played Zipanaca seemed like many lawyers we see advertising their wares on TV.. SLIMY as heck.. Though he also seemed familiar, from elsewhere..Just can't picture where yet.

Lunaeclipse
July 29th, 2012, 03:55 PM
That actor who played Zipanaca seemed like many lawyers we see advertising their wares on TV.. SLIMY as heck.. Though he also seemed familiar, from elsewhere..Just can't picture where yet.

...seen him in a few things recently....Real Steel for one...

Major Clanger
March 30th, 2013, 01:42 PM
Love the Nox. Love the Tollan. Love Love Love Zippy. Totally.
Teal'c rocked. Skara, love him. Even though he sounds like a dalek (his name)

that's it. Such a shame that we didn't ever get any more nox.

ETA: and how great are the Goa'uld stamping around just like Vogons? I keep expecting them to break out the poetry.

Falcon Horus
June 5th, 2013, 03:12 PM
The Nox still give me happy, fuzzy feelings. They're so cute. :D

The Tollans should be smacked upside the head, but I guess Zippie took care of that by taking out all their cannons, except for the one Teal'c hid away. Okay, the Tollan have a point about sharing their technology but come on... a little less arrogance goes a long way.

They built heir own stargate -- way smarter indeed. But arrogant nonetheless.

I'd forgotten what this episode was about so I didn't this was the one where Ska'ra comes back. I really liked that.

Lord Zipacna -- he's just one of those funky-looking goa'uld. Zippie. :p

Baron Of Hell
June 17th, 2013, 08:48 AM
SG1 doesn't give tech lesser worlds why should the Tollans. Loved seeing the nox also.

garhkal
June 20th, 2013, 02:43 PM
True, we have not been shown to give some goodies to lesser planets, but some we have.. specially medicine.

Falcon Horus
June 20th, 2013, 02:54 PM
We're always offering supplies but never technology.

garhkal
June 21st, 2013, 02:42 PM
Which is why i never understood our hate of the tolans either.. they were just doing what we were.

Lunaeclipse
August 30th, 2013, 05:41 PM
That actor who played Zipanaca seemed like many lawyers we see advertising their wares on TV.. SLIMY as heck.. Though he also seemed familiar, from elsewhere..Just can't picture where yet.

Zipacna from Pretense reminds me of the guy who helped choose Skaara in COTG, it wasn't the same actor, but I've always wondered if they were meant to be the same character...

garhkal
September 1st, 2013, 01:35 PM
Perhaps.. they did both seem to have similar head gear.

I Am Not James Spader
May 24th, 2015, 01:18 PM
I found it odd that no time was given in the story to Jackson telling Skaara that his sister is dead, and, overall, that Jackson has got over the loss so quickly - having already had a fling by this stage too.

SG-1 has dived headfirst into fridge the wife territory - despite the fact that Teal'C's family would be safer on Earth, they shuffle them off to parts unknown and kill off Sha'urai. Both of these because it is easier to write them as "bachelors" perhaps? :P

Meaghan
May 31st, 2015, 08:18 PM
The guy who played Zipacna was also Martin Keamy, one of the bad guy mercenaries Charles Widmore hired on Lost. Another creepy role. :D

I am rewatching SG1 now, and just saw this episode again. I know that Skaara idolizes O'Neill and has basically from the beginning....but he basically ignores his brother-in-law? Doesn't react to his sister's death? I know others have mentioned this, but am still wondering about that.

I liked that they brought back Schrodinger....:D Wonder who the cat belongs to in RL? And arrogant allies, but I liked the relationship between the Triad overlord and "Zippy"....

One other thing--how did Skaara manage to withstand Korel for so long? Is it something in the Abydonian DNA, since Sha're also seemed to have the same ability in "Forever in a Day"? Thought that this was kind of weird.

I Am Not James Spader
June 1st, 2015, 03:19 AM
The guy who played Zipacna was also Martin Keamy, one of the bad guy mercenaries Charles Widmore hired on Lost. Another creepy role. :D

I am rewatching SG1 now, and just saw this episode again. I know that Skaara idolizes O'Neill and has basically from the beginning....but he basically ignores his brother-in-law? Doesn't react to his sister's death? I know others have mentioned this, but am still wondering about that.

I liked that they brought back Schrodinger....:D Wonder who the cat belongs to in RL? And arrogant allies, but I liked the relationship between the Triad overlord and "Zippy"....

One other thing--how did Skaara manage to withstand Korel for so long? Is it something in the Abydonian DNA, since Sha're also seemed to have the same ability in "Forever in a Day"? Thought that this was kind of weird.

Yes, there seemed to be more continuity with the cat than the characters. :)

Lunaeclipse
June 1st, 2015, 03:05 PM
The guy who played Zipacna was also Martin Keamy, one of the bad guy mercenaries Charles Widmore hired on Lost. Another creepy role. :D

I am rewatching SG1 now, and just saw this episode again. I know that Skaara idolizes O'Neill and has basically from the beginning....but he basically ignores his brother-in-law? Doesn't react to his sister's death? I know others have mentioned this, but am still wondering about that.

I liked that they brought back Schrodinger....:D Wonder who the cat belongs to in RL? And arrogant allies, but I liked the relationship between the Triad overlord and "Zippy"....

One other thing--how did Skaara manage to withstand Korel for so long? Is it something in the Abydonian DNA, since Sha're also seemed to have the same ability in "Forever in a Day"? Thought that this was kind of weird.

I disagree with you. Skaara does idolize Jack, but if you look you will see that when both of them are around Skaara always acknowledges Daniel first. And as far as not reacting to bad news... I've always assumed that he learnt to keep his emotions and thoughts to himself so that Klorel couldn't use them...

... Skaara is strong and what exactly do you mean by 'withstand'? because there have others who have managed to come out of Goa'uld possesion...

hedwig
June 1st, 2015, 04:53 PM
One other thing--how did Skaara manage to withstand Korel for so long? Is it something in the Abydonian DNA, since Sha're also seemed to have the same ability in "Forever in a Day"? Thought that this was kind of weird.

I don't think DNA has anything to do with how long a person can withstand a Goa'uld. The Goa'uld appears to control that, not the human. Look at Apophis. He was "blended" with his host for nearly 2,000 years, according to the episode where Apophis was being chased by another system lord, was injured, crashed his glider, and was taken back to the SGC by SG1. During his stay there, it became evident that his host was someone who had lived nearly 2,000 years prior and was extremely confused when he was briefly allowed to come forth. The Goa'uld can keep healing it's host for as long as it wants to before discarding it for another host, unless it is itself injured or the injuries are beyond it's capability of healing.

Lunaeclipse
June 1st, 2015, 10:21 PM
One other thing--how did Skaara manage to withstand Korel for so long? Is it something in the Abydonian DNA, since Sha're also seemed to have the same ability in "Forever in a Day"? Thought that this was kind of weird.

Scene from 'Thor's Hammer"

Kendra: "Because of my training in the temple, the Goa'uld who took possession of my body could not take complete control over my mind. A part of me—myself—remained."

Daniel: "Something of the host survives."

Sam: "How did you end up here? Teal'c said the Goa'uld made this a forbidden planet ages ago."

Kendra:"And so it is. But I knew my beast. She hungered for conquest. So I became the voice within. I taunted her and whispered of rumors that Cimmeria must hold a wealth of riches for one bold enough to take it."

Daniel:"You actually influenced the Goa'uld that had taken you over?"

Kendra: "Yes. She came to Cimmeria. And I hoped only for a quick death…escape. But we were taken into the Labyrinth, a dark and terrifying place. Until Thor's Hammer set me free. And I have honored his ways and his people ever since."

-----------------------

What Kendra did is what I imagine Skaara did as well.

Meaghan
June 2nd, 2015, 05:49 PM
Thanks for the clarifications y'all!

I was all wrapped up in the "Nothing of the host survives", especially while watching this episode. Totally forgot about Kendra! It still seems pretty rare that the host can influence the symbiote, especially to the extent of Kendra and Skaara. I guess I wasn't good enough at explaining that!

Just trying to get at the fact that out of the small amount of non-Tokra people who actually have the host break through, it seems like an larger proportion tends to be Abydonian. At least from what I remember. :)

garhkal
June 2nd, 2015, 10:28 PM
Was Kendra Abydonian though?

Lunaeclipse
June 3rd, 2015, 12:34 AM
Was Kendra Abydonian though?

http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Kendra

Meaghan
June 3rd, 2015, 08:45 AM
I know she's not....but the other 2 are....which is why I said "a larger proportion" and not "all"!

I can't think of many more who were able to resist/assert themselves/whatever you want to call it. So the question remains--what was it about those 2 or Abydos that made it possible?

jelgate
June 3rd, 2015, 09:22 AM
I always thought it was because they were new hosts. It makes sense they would have more fight when a host implanted. The majority of Goa'uld we met had a host for hundreds of Years.
Their host had given up.

Lunaeclipse
June 3rd, 2015, 09:45 AM
I always thought it was because they were new hosts. It makes sense they would have more fight when a host implanted. The majority of Goa'uld we met had a host for hundreds of Years.
Their host had given up.

...and Klorel stated that Skaara was strong after he had been shot and then came out of the sarc, and when Apophis was hurt the host could come through, so injury seems to make the goa'ould weaker.

Inside Apophis' ship. Klorel come down in the transport rings.
Apophis: "Klorel, it is time. You will burn their first city to the ground."
Klorel: "Father, the host you chose for me is strong. I fear I may need more time in the Sarcophagus to gain strength."
Apophis: "You are strong enough! You are my son!"
Klorel: "Yes, Father."
Apophis: "Do not disappoint me."

Meaghan
June 3rd, 2015, 01:16 PM
Thanks y'all! I get it now. *g*

Lunaeclipse
June 3rd, 2015, 05:35 PM
I always thought it was because they were new hosts. It makes sense they would have more fight when a host implanted. The majority of Goa'uld we met had a host for hundreds of Years.
Their host had given up.

I think that's an excellent point.

Do you think that maybe it's also what they believe?... Skaara and Sha're were taught that the Goa'uld were not gods, so do you think that might have made them fight harder... I think they were strong people to begin with... but the older hosts might believe that they are gods.. do you think they would've learnt by being a host that the Goa'uld weren't?

Meaghan
June 4th, 2015, 09:59 AM
That's a good point too Luna! Perhaps a combination of new blending and knowing the truth about the Goa'uld plus innate strength.

I think that some hosts would have learned that, some wouldn't. There are always people who believe in a faith system so strongly that NOTHING will sway them from it. Those people will probably always believe the Goa'uld are gods no matter what. Others will have difficulty accepting it but will eventually. Others will have no problems at all, at least IMHO.

Lunaeclipse
June 6th, 2015, 03:44 PM
That's a good point too Luna! Perhaps a combination of new blending and knowing the truth about the Goa'uld plus innate strength.

I think that some hosts would have learned that, some wouldn't. There are always people who believe in a faith system so strongly that NOTHING will sway them from it. Those people will probably always believe the Goa'uld are gods no matter what. Others will have difficulty accepting it but will eventually. Others will have no problems at all, at least IMHO.

Skaara has epic inner strength and will and he's also intelligent, so he would find a way to do what Kendra did... and, I think, he would have learnt to hide his thoughts and feelings from Klorel so in Pretense he would've still have been holding back and measuring what he let out until he was free from the symbiote and he let them out a little again. All my observations I take from watching what he does as well as what he says... his actions say a lot in this episode. He is still the Skaara that we know and love, but he also has been through a lot (as he testified) so I was glad to see that he was still who he is/was and still had the stuff that made him a beautiful character.

garhkal
June 7th, 2015, 10:56 PM
And it was nice to see him once again later in the last ep of season 6... Pity it had to be just before he and the rest died off.

Anja
September 11th, 2015, 02:21 AM
Maybe also the Goa'ulds differ in personality so the amount of control depends on the symbiont, the host and the duration of the blending. Liked the combination of the different races here - the nice Nox woman being the representative of the most powerful and cleverest one.

garhkal
September 11th, 2015, 12:55 PM
I also loved Zippy.. Always liked that actor!

maneth
April 3rd, 2016, 08:43 PM
Not bad. A bit of a police procedural feel to it, though.

Anja
April 3rd, 2016, 10:23 PM
The Tollans appear very arrogant and the Nox very superior and smart - Zippy is an arrogant *******.

Falcon Horus
April 4th, 2016, 03:59 AM
Zippy was fun. :p
Too bad they didn't use him more.

Anja
April 4th, 2016, 05:48 AM
Yes, he was, but in an annoying way (for me) - but fun.

garhkal
April 4th, 2016, 02:37 PM
Zippy was fun. :p
Too bad they didn't use him more.

He had 3 whole episodes.. This, Last stand and Summit.. I agree the actor deserved more..

Falcon Horus
January 28th, 2018, 10:29 AM
So, this is the one where Skaa'ra is freed from Klorel, and goes back to Abydos a free man. Also, the one where we meet the Tollan again, who haven't lost their cocky attitude towards thinking they are invincible and cannot be harmed or destroyed by the Goa'uld, and there's Lya of the Nox, looking every so fairy like. :)

We begin with a brilliant showcasing of superious technology blowing 2 motherships out of the sky, and Skaa'ra/Klorel crashlanding on Tollana. Next thing we know, there's Schroedinger walking through the iris -- and by the gods, was that cat overweight -- followed by Narim who informs them of the Tria(l)d.

They pack it up, and off to Tollana, where Colonel O'Neill is convinced they're going to win this case -- it'll be a walk in the park (an accident waiting to happen), until Lord Zipacna (still a favorite of mine) shows up and well... there goes our walk in the park. Goa'uld, you just can't trust them to keep their end of the bargain when it comes to being the losing side. Although, not even on the winning side they would keep their end, probably.

Pretty need how that longrange communicator is stuck to the underside of the table.

There are two stories playing out, on the one hand we have the triad about who gets to have Skaa'ra's body, and on the other we have the Goa'uld plotting against Tollana. They weave into one another quite nicely, and while I have to say it's certainly not one of my favorite episodes, I still consider it pretty good.

The only grievance perhaps that I have with this episode, is that Skaa'ra is his old self too quickly, like he wasn't host to a Goa'uld the past 3 years of his life. There should at least be more a trauma remaining. I mean, remember Kendra. She seemed to be representing the freedom from her Goa'uld much differently than Skaa'ra here.

Oh well...

How would you rate SG-1's "Pretense?"

Excellent
Good
Fair
Poor
Terrible

Falcon Horus
February 23rd, 2018, 11:18 AM
It's that time of the week, where I post the 3-episode quiz and the jigsaw puzzles:

The Devil You Know, Foothold & Pretense (https://goo.gl/forms/HJJHk0j6TgJfidl62)

Pretense (https://www.jigidi.com/solve.php?id=ELETEI6C)

And yes, the last one of this week's jigsaw puzzles wasn't any bother. It even got worse --> 11:34. :o

jelgate
February 27th, 2018, 01:56 PM
I actually watched this one weeks ago and forgot. I'm going to blame FH because of magnets. This one is actually a favorite of mine mostly because I like the Tollan. Jack annoys me when he calls them arrogant. In their position, we would not share military technology which the ion cannons definitely are. I also admit I've always liked alien trial episodes. I like seeing how the Tollan legal society functions. This episode has it all for me even if the Goa'uld attacking is a little forced. Bye forever Lyla.

It didn't seem fair to do the quizes since I did the mega version. Also my computer is non-functional at the moment. My times would double if I tried the puzzles on my phone

Falcon Horus
February 28th, 2018, 01:51 AM
It didn't seem fair to do the quizes since I did the mega version. Also my computer is non-functional at the moment. My times would double if I tried the puzzles on my phone

Indeed, you did. And no, I wouldn't reccommend the puzzles on your phone. :S

jelgate
February 28th, 2018, 07:18 AM
I tried it once a long time ago. The time was pretty bad. Worse than Who knows?

jelgate
March 14th, 2018, 10:38 AM
10 minutes and 03 seconds

Falcon Horus
March 14th, 2018, 01:09 PM
Mmm... in the grand scheme of jigsaw things -- I'm only a minute slower. :p

Who Knows
March 16th, 2018, 07:58 AM
18:19.
You two must really love me 'cos I always make you look so smart.

Never mind, come the revolution brothers...........http://i.imgur.com/Mmo9zFu.gif

Falcon Horus
March 16th, 2018, 05:23 PM
I'm just grateful, I'm not the only jigsaw snail. :p

jelgate
March 16th, 2018, 05:36 PM
You were never a snail

Falcon Horus
March 18th, 2018, 12:49 PM
You were never a snail

A Lemming with an identity crisis perhaps. :p

Amelius
April 9th, 2018, 03:51 AM
I hate Zipacna's argument here. And that no one used the most obvious counter to it.

Goa'uld are smarter than Humans and so they have a right to kill/enslave us. Um... that's a stupid argument to make while standing on the homeworld of the Humans with the big honkin space guns that shot down two Goa'uld mother ships. The Tollan themselves should be pretty offended by this statement.

BethHG
June 25th, 2018, 07:54 AM
16:42

The Tollan drive me crazy with their arrogance. They cannot conceive of being wrong, ugh.

Hey, did anyone else notice that Schroedinger wasn't brought back to Tollana? Is he roaming around the SGC?

I am glad that Teal'c saved the day with Lya's help. Also happy that Skarra is free of Klorel.

This episode is between fair and good for me.

Falcon Horus
June 25th, 2018, 01:07 PM
Hey, did anyone else notice that Schroedinger wasn't brought back to Tollana? Is he roaming around the SGC?

I don't know about you, but when was the last time you saw a mouse scurry around the SGC? :p

BethHG
June 25th, 2018, 01:35 PM
:lol:

Everlovin
August 3rd, 2018, 04:37 PM
You never knew that the goa'uld would show up in an episode and weren't the most arrogant ones there.

Platschu
August 3rd, 2018, 11:21 PM
When Teal'c visits Lya, you can see the Nox flag inteh background. It looks like a purple gate with angel wings.

Falcon Horus
August 4th, 2018, 02:37 AM
When Teal'c visits Lya, you can see the Nox flag inteh background. It looks like a purple gate with angel wings.

Which suddenly makes me realize that no one has actually tried recreating it. Mmmmm.... :)

Platschu
August 4th, 2018, 03:50 PM
I like such set details. I posted about this on the SG:C as well a few weeks ago, maybe you have missed it.

When they visit Klorel/Skaara then there are two different flags in the background. One is for Klorel (the Apophis Jaffa symbol) and the other is Skaara (the Abydos pyramid with the 3 moons).

While our heroes got the point of the Origin. :)

Falcon Horus
August 8th, 2018, 03:19 AM
I like such set details. I posted about this on the SG:C as well a few weeks ago, maybe you have missed it.

Didn't miss it... at least, I saw a post yesterday so perhaps I did miss any other. I've been away so less occupied with world wide web things, and I've scaled down my time considerably at the SGC. The upteenth "shut up and go away" pretty much closing the deal there. :p

Heck, I got a downvote on my post where I link to the End of Season polls... that was just "He, what now?! :S". I think that makes the message quite clear to me. :p


When they visit Klorel/Skaara then there are two different flags in the background. One is for Klorel (the Apophis Jaffa symbol) and the other is Skaara (the Abydos pyramid with the 3 moons).

While our heroes got the point of the Origin. :)

And I totally missed the pyramid with the tree moons. :S
Perhaps I should try to recreate them first in the way that comes easiest to me -- in Illustrator, and then perhaps try to recreate them on fabric somehow.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
August 8th, 2018, 07:22 AM
If you want to recreate them on fabric, and you don't sew, I recommend stencils (which you can probably create in Illustrator) and fabric paint.

Seaboe

Falcon Horus
August 8th, 2018, 07:54 AM
If you want to recreate them on fabric, and you don't sew, I recommend stencils (which you can probably create in Illustrator) and fabric paint.

Oh... yes... thanks for the tip.

I have a friend who is quite familiar with the technique. :)
Might have to rope her into the project. :)

Platschu
August 27th, 2018, 10:53 AM
3x15 Pretense
1.It is impossible that a few Jaffa could walk around an entire continent to mark all the ion cannons within a few hours.
2.When Zipacna’s ship is coming to Tollana that animation is a reused from 2x01 The Serpent’s Lair
http://csillagkapu.hu/kep.php?kep=http://kepek.csillagkapu.hu/hiba/3x15/01.jpg
http://csillagkapu.hu/kep.php?kep=http://kepek.csillagkapu.hu/hiba/3x15/02.jpg