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richardf
July 28th, 2005, 02:10 PM
Am I the only one who cannot beleive that end of 'Enterprise' = end of Star Trek?

Surely there is scope in the future for the franchise to be ressurected with a new series. I sincerely hope so anyway. Enterprise was badly flawed (i wont go into it now) and has apparently killed the whole franchise of. This shouldnt be so.

Who agrees with me?

Personaly i'd like to see a new series start where DS9 left off, showing the aftermath of the dominion war and starfleet picking up the pieces.

Surely with new writers, a new cast and crew (and perhaps after a rest period after Enterprise), the Star Trek concept/franchise can be given a new lease of life.

MasySyma
July 28th, 2005, 07:02 PM
Star Trek was a great franchise, but it became overconfident and assumed anything with a Star Trek label would sell.

I grew up watching ST:TNG and DS9, and both shows were quite good. Even when fans didn't like a particular change in the show, they stayed and watched, but then, the thinktanks screwed up. They gave us Voyager, and Voyager taught many trekkies that life without Trek is ok because of other new shows, including Stargate. The writers should have waited for the fans to recover from Voyager, but instead, they gave us Enterprise. More and more fans left earlier in the show's run, and what should have been a seven year money-maker, died a mostly unmourned death (I apologize now if you liked Voyager or Enterprise).

Trek is a deposed king. It gave us weaker and weaker movies, overpriced DVD sets, and the same tired Trek merchandise. I went to conventions when I was a teenager, but now, I would need way too much money to buy souveniers.

I love the older shows, but I want Trek to stay gone for awhile. I don't want Starfleet Academy, a new movie, even reruns. I want none of it. I want it to stay gone until the fans start to miss it, and the writers can come up with a plot that doesn't have to mimic the previous shows. If this union of fandom and good writing cannot occur, I'm prepared to live without Star Trek.

Yes, Star Trek helped open the doors for many wonderful science fiction shows, but their producers need to realize one important fact: Today, better scifi exists.

MarshAngel
July 28th, 2005, 07:09 PM
Well it shouldn't be the end but it does indeed seem so. Part of the problem is that they set the series far in the future but modern technology has caught up with some of the things that once seemed so intriqguing and people have gotten knowlegable enough that looking back, so much of their technobable seems silly and woefully inaccurate.
Technology and the understanding of it has moved at such a pace that I'm betting it's very hard for the writers to really wow us anymore.

They've also made several missteps. I loved Voyager but it seems that's not the popular oppinion so I'm guessing they alienated some fans there. they then further aggravated ones like me with Enterprise and of course there's the awful movie Nemesis which didn't add anything to the series. If they're going to recover they'd have to do something spectacular and I don't see it happening anytime soon if at all. Are there any stories left to be told that fans would still want to see?

I was always of the opinion that they should have waited at least two years after Voyager before introducing a new ST series. Maybe then they'd have come up with better ideas and a better captain.

MasySyma
July 28th, 2005, 07:28 PM
I was always of the opinion that they should have waited at least two years after Voyager before introducing a new ST series. Maybe then they'd have come up with better ideas and a better captain.

Yes. They might have had time to think of better characters, and they might not have created as many problems with the Trek timeline.

Personally, Enterprise lost me as soon as I saw the captain's faithful dog. The show is going into space less explored and more risk-filled than when Kirk set out, yet the little dog is safe. The entire premise of ST:TNG was that space was finally safe "enough" to bring kids and pets although bad things could still happen.

After the dog, I remember watching them smear goo on people in their underwear to prevent disease. I remember thinking Kirk could have had a good time with that stuff. Too bad, starfleet apparently banned it. :eek: What were they thinking?

It has been a long day. On topic: Time off will allow everyone to forget the episodes a bit. We'll stop remembering that the Klingon council of whatever promised Worf sancutary on X date and how the new show, movie, whatever is wrong. It would allow the writers a chance to possibly create a show that could grow with fan support.

macktheknife
July 28th, 2005, 10:42 PM
I doubt it's the end, but it's the end for quite a while now. I liked voyager, it was pretty good, but enterprise was a big meh.

richardf
July 29th, 2005, 08:45 AM
Like i said, give it a rest then come back fresh in a few years.

Personaly I like DS9 and the Original Series, found TNG OK particularly in later seasons. ENT would have been OK but for the anachronisms and bad writing. As for Voyager it has some good individual episodes but overall find it a big turn off.

I'd say the franchise could learn a lot from the likes of Stargate et al.

Arative
July 29th, 2005, 09:01 AM
I don't think we've seen the end of Star Trek, it is too entrenched in our culture to let it die completely. Give it a few years and we'll have new series or maybe a movie, as long and Branon and Berman don't touch it, it will turn out fine. And I agree with the dvd's being to expensive, $130 or so for a single season just because it has the Star Trek name? No thanks, thats the one reason I've never bought a Star Trek season.

Carl
July 29th, 2005, 10:38 AM
I said this on the Star Trek forum and I'll say it here, I knew early-on in the first season that Enterprise was the death of Star Trek as we know it. I personally blame Brannon and Braga - even though they came up with some great ideas, episodes and series, no-one has infinate creativity and Brannon especially should've, after Voyager, began a hunt for a new executive producer who he could be sure would keep Star Trek's best interests at heart and soul.

Instead, Enterprise was created and destroyed, Nemesis was released and mainly shot down and Star Trek, after 18 years non-stop has been cancelled. I just hope this isn't the end, I don't think it will be.

Sokarfive
July 29th, 2005, 01:01 PM
Star Trek should have rested for a few years between Voyager and Enterprise. Five months was to fast. The studio just wanted to suck every last penny out of the franchise that it could. Now that they have done that they have dumped the carcas. I think that Berman and Braga were creatively worn out before it began.

GeneralJackO'Neill
July 29th, 2005, 01:27 PM
No, Star Trek will last when all the movies and shows come on DVD, and then it will die. Thank goodness, I was waiting for Enterprise 4th season to end. I guess ppl don't like Voyager enough cuz it's still in syndication. TOS is on Sci-Fi and TNG and DS9 are on Spike.

Hah! At least Star Wars will keep going with a tv show. But that's not a good idea because Star Wars wasn't made for tv. Oh, well.

Sorry for me getting off topic.

Qasim
July 29th, 2005, 01:41 PM
I grew up with TNG,DS9 and VOY and some of it was the best sci-fi (in fact the best tv) I have ever seen but then Enterprise came along and it went downhill

Considering all the advances which came about in the last ep of voyager and the stuff from insurrection I think ST has become too advanced

GeneralJackO'Neill
July 29th, 2005, 01:45 PM
I'm confused. What do you mean by 'advanced'?

MasySyma
July 29th, 2005, 01:47 PM
No, Star Trek will last when all the movies and shows come on DVD, and then it will die. Thank goodness, I was waiting for Enterprise 4th season to end. I guess ppl don't like Voyager enough cuz it's still in syndication. TOS is on Sci-Fi and TNG and DS9 are on Spike.

Hah! At least Star Wars will keep going with a tv show. But that's not a good idea because Star Wars wasn't made for tv. Oh, well.

Sorry for me getting off topic.

I agree that Star Wars is continuing, but I wonder if the signs of imminent destruction haven't appeared for this franchise as well. More and more people are coming away from the films angry and disillusioned. If the new series doesn't start strong, Lucas' critics will only get louder.

Both franchises are forgetting their fan base. People watch shows for the characters, writing, special effects, etc. not to buy merchandise or make a producer money. So far, I enjoy the world of Stargate because the show's marketting people haven't fogotten about the fanbase. If they start trying to support four SG shows at once, raise prices to levels beyond most fans' incomes, or offer fewer conventions with larger stars, I'll start wondering about this franchise too.

Right now, it looks like the Stargate franchise is poised to depose Trek.

GeneralJackO'Neill
July 29th, 2005, 02:04 PM
MasySyma I'm glad you said that. Lucas and Episode 3 have taken heat for many reasons. Lucas only cares for the money he makes off the merchandise, to get the movies done and doesn't care what the fans really want on the films. (I guess that's why there's Steve Sansweet for the fans, instead of Lucas)

Star Trek was doomed when they started Enterprise. Nemesis didn't do a real good job either. However, TOS lasted 3 seasons, because science fiction wasn't big back then. 10-15 years later Roddenberry comes back with TNG to last for 7 seasons. DS9 and VOY also lasted for 7 seasons. Coming to 24 complete seasons of Star Trek. Enterprise comes along. I must say the 1st and 2nd seasons did a very good job. Then when the Xindi come into it, man it goes downhill.

I'm disappointed with Enterprise in only two main areas: pointless storylines and sex/nudity scenes. I hardly watched the third season and I was waiting for the fourth season to end.

Stargate on the other hand has managed to leap over Star Trek's average season count. Atlantis has been renewed, that's good. If the writers, producers and editors of Stargate continue to listen to their fanbase and take action on their opinions and suggestions then I believe Stargate will last a lot longer.

Longer than Star Trek, possibly Star Wars and definately any Roddenberry shows like Andromeda and Earth: Final Conflict.

Qasim
July 29th, 2005, 02:05 PM
I'm confused. What do you mean by 'advanced'?Janeway from the future gave them those awesome shields and gave the borg a virus

Picard says that he will make sure that all the people of the federation find out what happened with the Ba'ku - wont this just mean more people will come in search of the fountain of youth

GeneralJackO'Neill
July 29th, 2005, 02:11 PM
Janeway from the future gave them those awesome shields and gave the borg a virus

Picard says that he will make sure that all the people of the federation find out what happened with the Ba'ku - wont this just mean more people will come in search of the fountain of youth

That's true. I was hoping that the last episodes were when the Voyager makes it back to Earth, not some futuristic Janeway in the Delta Quadrant. But the fountain of youth is a little too much. I hated Insurrection cuz I thought it was a poor storyline that has to do with...fantasy? I thought Star Trek was becoming another fantasy in space like Star Wars.

Crazedwraith
July 29th, 2005, 02:16 PM
It is if LeVar Burton (LaForge) has anything to say about it:



STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION actor LeVar Burton ('Geordi LaForge') has begged Paramount Pictures execs never to make another new STAR TREK show and allow the franchise to rest in piece.

Burton hopes the last series of STAR TREK: ENTERPRISE, from 2001, will be the very last.

"STAR TREK coming to an end is long overdue." Burton said "They ran it into the ground and made so much STAR TREK that it ceased to be special. If they bring this back before a decade is out I will get a high-powered weapon and start picking off studio executives."


The original report can be found here (http://www.contactmusic.com/new/xmlfeed.nsf/mndwebpages/levar%20burton%20scrap%20star%20trek).

GeneralJackO'Neill
July 29th, 2005, 02:21 PM
Let's give a hand to LeVar Burton!!!

Qasim
July 29th, 2005, 02:21 PM
That's true. I was hoping that the last episodes were when the Voyager makes it back to Earth, not some futuristic Janeway in the Delta Quadrant. But the fountain of youth is a little too much. I hated Insurrection cuz I thought it was a poor storyline that has to do with...fantasy? I thought Star Trek was becoming another fantasy in space like Star Wars.That is why I am happy that SG isnt inundated with alien tech

The fountain of youth means anyone can be immortal so what storyline can you have after that?

The advanced shields means the federation is a lot more advanced than anybody else so they have too great an advantage

GeneralJackO'Neill
July 29th, 2005, 02:24 PM
Did you ever like Voyager?

rolleson
July 29th, 2005, 02:24 PM
I am gutted that Enterprise is finishing. Cause while it wasn't great, it was you know, Star Trek.

I loved Voyger and DS9 (although with both I drifted off at the end of their runs cause of scheduling on BBC 2 Wales was rubbish) but I loved them.

Enterprise wasn't awful, just not great and not what we wanted. I always found it a bit odd to be doing a programme set before all the others, with some aliens and places that are never mentioned in any of the others. Not that I've watched every single episode and remembered everything but still, it felt odd.

Anyway. My two pence.

Qasim
July 29th, 2005, 03:00 PM
Yes I liked Voyager - I liked them all but the way they finished Voyager off didnt leave much for more good storytelling in my opinion

vikingjedi
July 30th, 2005, 02:12 AM
The biggest problem with "Enterprise" was that they went backwards in time. The whole point of sci-fi is coming up with new futuristic concepts to make us expand our views on what we believe to be possible.

Then add to that the show looked like it was shot inside of a Submarine and that about killed it. I probably watched 1 or 2 episodes. Nothing about it intrigued me.

I hope Star Trek does return but they need to pick it up going hundreds of years deeper into the future from when Voyager ended. Maybe make it a time of darkness with the federation being overrun by a new villian that would make the Borg look like Barney the dinosaur. Actually let the Federation lose. I don't think that has ever happened. Make them question their beliefs and have to adapt. Make them find out that what they think they have "figured out" to be be false.

Take a look at what Stargate is doing and EXPAND it times 1000. Go all out.

rolleson
July 30th, 2005, 04:19 AM
I hope Star Trek does return but they need to pick it up going hundreds of years deeper into the future from when Voyager ended. Maybe make it a time of darkness with the federation being overrun by a new villian that would make the Borg look like Barney the dinosaur. Actually let the Federation lose.


Oooh I like that idea :)

Like dark Star Trek, really dark, like when they do alternate reality episodes where everything is evil.

Liebestraume
July 30th, 2005, 03:11 PM
Am I the only one who cannot beleive that end of 'Enterprise' = end of Star Trek?
I suppose it depends on what you mean by "end of Star Trek."

While there is no new series in production, all the existing ones are in syndication. Plus there are DVDs, books, video games, potential movies, etc, etc. Trek is big business -- and a culture icon -- and is not going to disappear overnight.

But I think the "Star Trek formula" is dead (or should be). While its central theme -- challenge one's own preconception -- is very near and dear to my heart, the way Trek goes about exploring it often feels extremely dated. Perhaps simply raising some of these issues, or providing the occasional social commentary, was considered groundbreaking 40 years ago, it's not going to cut it today.

Easter Lily
July 30th, 2005, 06:08 PM
But I think the "Star Trek formula" is dead (or should be). While its central theme -- challenge one's own preconception -- is very near and dear to my heart, the way Trek goes about exploring it often feels extremely dated. Perhaps simply raising some of these issues, or providing the occasional social commentary, was considered groundbreaking 40 years ago, it's not going to cut it today.

Sadly... I have to agree...
The problem with Star Trek and Star Wars is that they belonged to a particular era. The one thing that I have consistently loved about scifi since the age of 6 or 7 is the original manner of storytelling, the use of allegories, imagery and metaphors to discuss events of history and the human condition. This is still the one thing I look for when watching scifi... while the characters are important, the manner of telling is what distinguishes scifi from all other genres.
It saddens me that Star Wars (which I grew up with) and to some extent Star Trek hasn't really taken advantage of the advances of technology to improve their vision or their storytelling. Those responsible have allowed technology to overwhelm the story and other essentials such as characterization and dialogue. They have forgotten that good scifi is not just good sfx... but innovative storytelling and compelling characters. DS9 was a fantastic development in that regard but instead of building on that, those responsible returned to Star Trek's already waning "roots".

Shows like Battlestar Galactica and Dr Who have really thrown down the gauntlet... they are great examples of what a good update can really do for a series. No doubt, the sfx is wonderful in those shows but it is the stories and the characterization that take them out of mediocrity. I agree that the old formular should be left to die... until such time when there is a willingness to tell new stories (or old stories in new ways) rather than to rehash old ones in old ways.

TechnoWraith
July 30th, 2005, 06:43 PM
Am I the only one who cannot beleive that end of 'Enterprise' = end of Star Trek?

Surely there is scope in the future for the franchise to be ressurected with a new series. I sincerely hope so anyway. Enterprise was badly flawed (i wont go into it now) and has apparently killed the whole franchise of. This shouldnt be so.

Who agrees with me?

Personaly i'd like to see a new series start where DS9 left off, showing the aftermath of the dominion war and starfleet picking up the pieces.

Surely with new writers, a new cast and crew (and perhaps after a rest period after Enterprise), the Star Trek concept/franchise can be given a new lease of life.

I personally liked Star Trek from the very beginning. However, in my opinion, I think "Enterprise" killed the entire franchise pretty well. It overextended the franchise, and the whole lot of mediocre seasons and episodes probably turned everyone off. It's a shame that such a great franchise was brought to it's knees by a 3 or 4 lousy seasons.

I think if the franchise was re-invented with new faces, races and maybe even a completely new ship (a ship that shares few similarities with all the older ships used earlier), i think it would be possible to resurrect Star Trek from the ashes. Another possibility would be to develop a completely seperate story arc that took one of the prominent story arcs from one of the series (the suggestion regarding DS9 is a good place to start) off in a whole new direction would probably breathe new life into the franchise.

Whether or not the franchise will ever decide to continue is a whole other story. One that we fans, unfortunately, have little if any say in at all.

Wyrminarrd
July 31st, 2005, 02:25 AM
The rumor that I heard concerning Star Trek was the the studio was waiting until itīs contracts with Berman and Braga expire before doing anything new. That way they will be able to bring in fresh talent to the franchise and possibly rejuvenate it.

I personally think that there is plenty you could still do with a well known brand like Star Trek if you put the right people in charge. Berman and Braga have messed things up quite a bit by not thinking things through enough, one example being the time travel episodes. Everytime you show what the future is going to be you are restricting possibilities for other series set at a later date cause you know that the die hard fans will instantly find all inconsitencies and complain about them loudly.

rolleson
August 8th, 2005, 02:00 AM
Finally watched the very last episode of Enterprise last night.

Jezus, what the hell was that about?

So lazy and so unsatisfing.

Madeleine
August 8th, 2005, 03:15 AM
It was thouroughly underwhelming. What was with Malcolm, Hoshi and The One Who Must Surely Have A Name But Never Got Much Chance To Be Called By It all sitting around three hours after their colleague had died, cheerily discussing their career options and grumbling about their seating? :confused:

It was rather sweet to have Kirk and Picard and Archer all doing the voiceover at the end, but the episode itself is not one I'd have picked as a send-off for the show. Or for Tucker.

richardf
August 8th, 2005, 06:50 AM
I too have just seen the last episode. I have to say very disapointing and a complete anticlimax. It would have been better without the future bits with Troi and Riker, which totaly spoiled it for me. It was like having the last episode of the original series mixed up with 'future scenes' from DS9 or Voyager. Having a 6 year gap from the previous episode didnt help either.

TBH I am not sorry to see the back of Enterprise, a half decent series totaly spoiled by timeline inconsistences and anachronisms.

colonel O'Neill
August 9th, 2005, 05:23 AM
I hope that this isn't the end.
I liked Star Trek:TNG,but my favorite is Voyager (it was my favorite Sci-fi show before Stargate).
In the end all Star Trek episodes were great,except Enteprise (with captain Archer),so I do hope they come back soon with a new ship and a new captain.

Ancient 1
August 10th, 2005, 02:03 AM
Well, lets's have a look: Except for the first and the last leries, I believe all the others had a 7-year run. That's not too shabby for Mr. Roddenberry; even if his name was his only contribution to some of these. Earth: Final Conflict & Andromeda also had his name. It would be no disgrace if indeed the run of Star Trek shows did come to an end, but I tend to think there's still too much money to be made for smart people to let it come to an end just yet. :o I think if we bide our time there will be another show on the way...or another movie or 2 to say the least. ;)

There; that wasn't too bad for number 3000...:o