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GateWorld
July 26th, 2005, 06:00 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s9/905.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/graphics/905.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">SG-1 SEASON NINE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s9/905.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none"><B>THE POWERS THAT BE</B></A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 905</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
SG-1 visits a world whose people once worshipped Vala as a god -- and demand that she stand trial when she confesses to manipulating them.

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s9/905.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

lionel_pendergast_rocks
August 12th, 2005, 05:49 PM
So, General Landry is Dr. Lam's father? When they were fist talking at lunch, I thought they were an old couple, and that would've been really weird. So, what do you guys think about this? It sure makes for some interesting character development.

I wonder if we'll get to meet the mom, or will it be a classic case of the mom has died.

And do you think the other characters know about this?

MarshAngel
August 12th, 2005, 06:14 PM
I still have to go back and watch the beginning of this episode but from what I did see it was a really great one, better than the last. Vala was amazing this episode. I'd withheld judgement all this time, but she has officially won me over.

briguy213
August 12th, 2005, 06:14 PM
I was waiting to see vala die again. Well to bad. We all know even if she died she would come back to life. Im still waiting for a prior to goto earth and do some damage. That will be fun :)

AGateFan
August 12th, 2005, 06:20 PM
Well, if you didnt think the Ori\Prior were creepy before I would think this would kind of do it. So they are kind of like the Aschen using Bioweapons on people, eh? How the heck do you fight that? I definitly got the "no hope for victory" feeling kind of like BSG... I dont like that too much but I dont like depressing, but I have great hope they can use this and the typical Stargate style to make a great show.

Elwe Singollo
August 12th, 2005, 06:20 PM
I totally and 100 percent loved the episode, but i'm starting to get annoyed with the Ori, especially at the end of the episode. When the annoying prior said to Daniel and them to share with others what they've seen, i was like 'oh shut the hell up.' i was just annoyed, but i think it was helped by Vala! Her with a gun in hand, very good stuff.

So did we ever find out why Daniel and Teal'c weren't infected? I dont know why Vala wasn't, but im guessing that Daniel and Teal'c weren't infected because they went through a similar experience back in S6 or something? But then again, the whole talk of the disease or whatever it was called mutating kind of made me confused, so i just totally stopped thinking about it.

I think Lexa D. is still acting like her Andromeda persona, she is still acting like a robot! Although her little spit spat with her daddy dearest made her have a little life, well sort of...

Bobthespirit
August 12th, 2005, 06:22 PM
Okay, this episode gives season nine promise. I think it was a good episode for fifty minutes, then they had a big missed opportunity at the end. They should have used it as an opportunity to show that the Ori can be fought and beaten, just like it was obvious the gu'ald were at the beginning. Instead they just used it to establish the Ori as *more* unbeatable and unfightable, in a cheesy attempt to make them more scary.

I like the 'Ketesh' thing at the beginning, and I like the progression of the episode up to the end. It's also good to see Landry, his daughter, and Vala given more character development and depth. Especially Vala, she actually had a moment of humility, and the fewest lines about sex in any episode yet.

Mitchell seems to just be straight out disaffected. He's being written like Ford was in season one of Atlantis. He's not really emoting much, and he's the one who always gets disabled to show that the enemy means business.

But, I'm not as cynical about new Stargate now as I was in my previous posts in episode threads. It seems to have promise, IF they give Mitchell more of a personality and give earth a SINGLE victory against the Ori, to show the Ori can be fought and possibly stopped without deus ex machina.

And stop making the Ori so much like the Jedi! It's plain cheesy!! They have the exact same powers, you might as well just call their ability the 'Schmorse'.

Here's an idea though. Instead of swapping Vala for Sam, let's swap Mitchell for Sam! Vala can stay.

warmbeachbrat
August 12th, 2005, 06:24 PM
I wonder if we'll get to meet the mom, or will it be a classic case of the mom has died.

And do you think the other characters know about this?


Actually, General Landry asked Dr. Lam how her mother was and Dr. Lam fired back, "Why don't you call her and ask?" (or something like that). So I'm guessing--mom has not died.

jyh
August 12th, 2005, 06:28 PM
If the priors are so darned all-powerful, why don't they fix their own eyes & skintone? tee hee :D

Elwe Singollo
August 12th, 2005, 06:29 PM
I like the 'Ketesh' thing at the beginning, and I like the progression of the episode up to the end. It's also good to see Landry, his daughter, and Vala given more character development and depth. Especially Vala, she actually had a moment of humility, and the fewest lines about sex in any episode yet.
I liked the whole play the villagers did for Vala/Ketesh, i like that dying guys little special effect, i thought that was funny. :D

Wow, this was the episode with the fewest sex references! Hmm, was there a change of writer(s)?! Well anyway, i think if they keep those naughty things to a minimum is for the better... :rolleyes:

Redwall
August 12th, 2005, 06:29 PM
I've got it now -- the Ori aren't using the Force, they're using the Matrix.

I can't wait for Vala to pull a "Dodge this."

Seriously, this was a decent episode, better than "The Ties that Bind", at least; and it's nice not to have a last-second happy ending so prevalent the last couple of years. Nice to see the preacher from Avalon again, too.

The whole moral debate was also great, thanks in no small point to the fact that, as Vala and Mitchell pointed out, the Prior was damn convincing.

MarshAngel
August 12th, 2005, 06:31 PM
Thats true once again they missed an opportunity to give Mitchell something to do besides get hurt. I know they're making an effort to have us slowly get used to him but four episodes in I think it's time he was actually good for something.

Major Fischer
August 12th, 2005, 06:33 PM
I liked Vala's character developement here, and thought the episode show promise.... but I'm beginning to find watching the good guys loose for five episodes straight to the all powerful enemy more than a little depressing.

ShadowMaat
August 12th, 2005, 06:39 PM
Well hmmm...

I watched TPTB because Martin Gero wrote it, but... well, it's still SG-1 and I'm afraid that hampers him a bit. Not a BAD ep, I guess, but It's no Storm/Eye, Siege, or even Duet. I haven't developed a sudden urge to start watching the new season. ;)

What was good: Doc Lam. I like her. She's spunky and droll, but nothing like Fraiser. At least she has some honest personality, which is more than can be said of poor Alisen Down's abbreviated stint as doctor. *sigh* And the latter half was... interesting. I guess. Vala didn't annoy me NEARLY as much as I thought she would. Practically sympathetic towards the end. Maybe Martin's just good at making female characters act more realistic and less like a porno queen. :rolleyes:

HOWEVER... the ep was very heavily lawyer-show, and I hate lawyer shows. The whole trial thing was tedious and mostly an excuse for large amounts of exposition. Fairly well-disguised exposition, but exposition nonetheless.

The Ori sound like the Goa'uld with better toys. But at least the Goa'uld had cool outfits and while their flamboyance got cheesy, I prefer it to the prior things.

Creating a plague and curing it sounds very Nirrti. Which draws more parallels between the Ori and Goa'uld. Not something you want to do with yout "bigger, badder" bad guys.

I assume we're never going to find out why Teal'c, Daniel and Vala were immune, but Mitchell got sick? *sigh* It might have been nice to get some answers.

The play WAS very cute and I really liked it but dear gods if Teal'c is reduced to saying "indeed" as his major conversational contribution one more time I SWEAR I'm going to kill something small cute and furry! :mad:

So there were good bits and bad bits and the ep basically left me kind... lethargic. I REALLY wanted to like this, but... ehhh.

Of course, considering my extreme hatred of SG-1's current iteration it's probably a miracle that I didn't completely loathe this ep. ;)

Still, keep Martin on Atlantis where he belongs. He can't save SG-1. I don't think ANYONE can.

jree
August 12th, 2005, 06:42 PM
Fascinating. So the Ori disease is the same stuff that was in the episode Frozen. So it was the Ori who gave the ancients the plague.

binkpmmc
August 12th, 2005, 06:47 PM
I think Lexa D. is still acting like her Andromeda persona, she is still acting like a robot!

Can you say wooden? After seeing her I really, really miss Janet even more than before - talk about a gaping hole - now there's another one, or better yet, still that same one plus all of the others.

binkpmmc
August 12th, 2005, 06:54 PM
Thats true once again they missed an opportunity to give Mitchell something to do besides get hurt. I know they're making an effort to have us slowly get used to him but four episodes in I think it's time he was actually good for something.

Looks to me like they want the fans to feel sorry for the poor sot maybe that's what will get fans to like/accept him, not whether he's worth being on the team or not - God forbid! On the positive side I must say BB plays hurt and healing well from what I have seen of him thus far.

The thing that bothers me is that the Ori are not, IMO, scary one whit. What a cliched ending - in a span of 1 minute all is healed and everyone is up and walking . . . give me a break. Heal them all 2 minutes earlier and then have the Ori wreck a different kind of havoc to prove they're deadly mindset and maybe, just maybe and a very BIG maybe it is, I would buy this schtick. I am still not impressed nor am I in fear for anything remotely related to the Ori.

Mongo's Girl
August 12th, 2005, 07:00 PM
I thought it was terrific. Good stuff from Vala tonight. I'm really gonna miss her, but excited about seeing Sam in the previews.

I enjoyed the play also. I thought Vala made a terrific god. What's wrong with a little feet washing. :)

Mitchell was good, until he got sick. I hope that's not a habit.

Loved Daniel being Daniel.

Enjoyed Lam and Dad finally getting out of spoilerville

I still think the Ori are creepy

mtee1958
August 12th, 2005, 07:07 PM
I must have missed something -- why was Teal'c there? Last week, didn't we see him leave? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he was -- but an explanation would have been nice. It made me think it was out of sequence or something.

Not my favorite ep -- but I am still enjoying the season. I didn't like every ep from the past seasons either -- so no biggie. I have always liked Vala and she keeps growing in character every week. Daniel is just his usual wonderful self. I'm also ready for them to let BB loose.

rnwhocares
August 12th, 2005, 07:08 PM
Can you say wooden? After seeing her I really, really miss Janet even more than before - talk about a gaping hole - now there's another one, or better yet, still that same one plus all of the others.
I really liked this episode. I mean the Ori can kill on whim and raise the dead? It has me wondering how they are ever going to defeat them. And I just can't get past the monotone speech from Dr. Lam. I'm still not missing Carter, and I really like Vala!!

JanusAncient
August 12th, 2005, 07:09 PM
The episode stunning, I loved Vala/Ketesh, or is it Qetesh, her growth of compassion, and understanding, made me like her more. Michell, still nothing to work with, why are they doing this to Crichton, Teal'c was a little better in the episode, probably will not get anything truly good, until Ex Deux Machina, Daniel Jackson, the Ori created the plague that killed the Ancients, perhaps a major development here, can't wait to find out the reason that the Ori want to be worshipped, Dr. Lam I actually noticed her in this episode, the season is really shaping up to be a great one, this is my opinion, but I can't wait to find out.

kharn the betrayer
August 12th, 2005, 07:14 PM
Wow Vala got some deph *gasp*

IMO MUCH better than last week's episode

Vala grew on me again... she actually showed she cared for some one other than herself


overall i'd give this a 4/5

rnwhocares
August 12th, 2005, 07:14 PM
I totally and 100 percent loved the episode, but i'm starting to get annoyed with the Ori, especially at the end of the episode. When the annoying prior said to Daniel and them to share with others what they've seen, i was like 'oh shut the hell up.' i was just annoyed, but i think it was helped by Vala! Her with a gun in hand, very good stuff.

So did we ever find out why Daniel and Teal'c weren't infected? I dont know why Vala wasn't, but im guessing that Daniel and Teal'c weren't infected because they went through a similar experience back in S6 or something? But then again, the whole talk of the disease or whatever it was called mutating kind of made me confused, so i just totally stopped thinking about it.

I think Lexa D. is still acting like her Andromeda persona, she is still acting like a robot! Although her little spit spat with her daddy dearest made her have a little life, well sort of...
Daniel was never in the episode FROZEN from s6. Maybe he was immune because he was an ascended?

ShadowMaat
August 12th, 2005, 07:18 PM
If the Ori created the plague, where do the Wraith fit in? Or did they just run around killing aimlessly?

And if it IS the Ori, does this mean that the plague sample the Atlantis team found in Hot Zone is from the Ori? Because that would severely suck. I'd rather have it be from an enemy who's actually scary and intimidating instead of arrogant and self-absorbed. You know, something slightly different from every other major enemy in SG-1 and Atlantis. ;)

MarshAngel
August 12th, 2005, 07:23 PM
Well there may be hope for the Ori yet. Hopefully the "Reason" behind their need for worship is shocking and illuminating.

Mongo's Girl
August 12th, 2005, 07:53 PM
Actually, General Landry asked Dr. Lam how her mother was and Dr. Lam fired back, "Why don't you call her and ask?" (or something like that). So I'm guessing--mom has not died.

And since he had to ask how she was, they're obviously no longer together. I sense dad has been out of the picture, family wise, for awhile now.

jyh
August 12th, 2005, 07:53 PM
What was good: Doc Lam. I like her. She's spunky and droll, but nothing like Fraiser. At least she has some honest personality, which is more than can be said of poor Alisen Down's abbreviated stint as doctor. *sigh* And the latter half was... interesting. I guess. Vala didn't annoy me NEARLY as much as I thought she would. Practically sympathetic towards the end. Maybe Martin's just good at making female characters act more realistic and less like a porno queen. :rolleyes:


Holy crap, I hope you're joking about Lam. I thought she was, to use the words of others, both wooden and robotic. And she was downright snotty and petulant during her lunch w/ 'dad.' What a brat! He should have called her that and told her to act her age.

Vala was actually bearable in this ep, as she displayed some real human feeling and character growth, not to mention toning down the sexual innuendo. Still unhappy w/ Teal'c... Did anyone else notice that he was speaking more oddly than usual, sort of speaking low and drawing his words out: "Indeeeed." ~Freaky.~

Much better episode than the other "Vala" episodes. It was a pretty good mix of components: Vala, galaxy politics, and plot development. The way the writers chose to end it, with the good guys not 'winning,' was both disappointing (because we all like a happy ending) and strategically good (for long-term plot purposes).

I didn't like some of the derivative plotpoints... the Ori make people sick so they can heal them & win them over... having one of the good guys (not exactly SG-1, but close) be on trial for past crimes.... not to mention the direct and blatant theft of Neo's bullet-stopping act from "The Matrix."

But overall, a pretty good episode. Still can't wait for Carter to return, tho... I cheered when I saw her in next week's promo!

greytop
August 12th, 2005, 07:58 PM
To the reason that Teal'c, Daniel, and Vala weren't infected: Maybe the Ori didn't want them to become infected for a reason.

Crichton
August 12th, 2005, 07:59 PM
I think it's a VERY bad call. So far all we've seen Landry do is mope around and worry about personal issues. No one even knew Hammond had family until the NID blackmailed him into resigning...Landry needs to be doing WAYYYYYY more than talking to his daughter...we never even say Hammond have lunch one time!!!!! Landry needs to be calling the President on the red phone or be in the gate room supervising things.

Landry's the weakest link in Season 9.

Crichton
August 12th, 2005, 08:00 PM
(spelling error) never "saw" Hammond have lunch.

Colonel Sharp
August 12th, 2005, 08:05 PM
So, General Landry is Dr. Lam's father? When they were fist talking at lunch, I thought they were an old couple, and that would've been really weird. So, what do you guys think about this? It sure makes for some interesting character development.

I wonder if we'll get to meet the mom, or will it be a classic case of the mom has died.

And do you think the other characters know about this?
I thought they were a couple too, when I heard him I was like 'oh, wow!', lol, and that does explain why she fired back at the comment about mom, I'm geussing their divorced.

Anyway, I don't think any of the other characters know about this, maybe Jack does...


(Crichton, theres a useful little tool that lets you edit your previous post, just click 'edit' on the post you want to edit, its foolproff :D)

lionel_pendergast_rocks
August 12th, 2005, 08:07 PM
Actually, General Landry asked Dr. Lam how her mother was and Dr. Lam fired back, "Why don't you call her and ask?" (or something like that). So I'm guessing--mom has not died.

ah yes, I forgot about that. it seemed kind of weird that he was asking about her mother. that is, it was until we found out they were related.

the fifth man
August 12th, 2005, 08:08 PM
Great episode, in my opinion. Now we see just what a tough road lies ahead in combating the Ori. How can we stop such power? Loved Vala's development as well, caring for others and not just herself. This episode is definitely good news for fans of the stargate universe.

ShadowMaat
August 12th, 2005, 08:13 PM
To the reason that Teal'c, Daniel, and Vala weren't infected: Maybe the Ori didn't want them to become infected for a reason.
Maybe, but then why let Mitchell get sick? What's the reasoning behind it?

I could see it as Daniel having been ascended, Vala having been a Goa'uld and Teal'c having had a symbiote, but some actual info would be nice.

ForeverSg1
August 12th, 2005, 08:15 PM
To the reason that Teal'c, Daniel, and Vala weren't infected: Maybe the Ori didn't want them to become infected for a reason.

If this plague is like the one that infected the team in Frozen, I'm not really sure how it works.

In Frozen, Teal'c was not affected by the plague as his symbiote prevented him from getting it. However, Sam did get it and she like Vala had once been a host at with traces of naquadah in her blood( One can only assume Vala has a much greater quantity of naquadah in her blood).

In tonight's episode Daniel, Vala and Teal'c didn't get the plague, but Mitchell did. We know Vala nor Teal'c have a symbiote any longer to prevent them from getting the plague, so I'm not sure exactly why they would be immune if it is in fact the same plague as in Frozen. Daniel didn't seem to affected by the plague either and one could assume that somehow the reason he wasn't might have something to do with him having once been ascended; however, if the Ancients were not immune to this disease/plague why would Daniel?

So I would think that you are probably correct in your assumption that the Ori chose to spare Daniel, Teal'c and Vala and used Mitchell as an example to the Tauri.

I like this episode much better than I have some of the previous season nine episodes, especially last weeks. I only wish they had offered Vala a bit more of this type of depth to her character a lot sooner. It's a shame just as I'm starting to really like her that she will be gone. However, I do miss my team; and although this episode was much closer to what I have been missing, I can't wait till next week.

Kat

AGateFan
August 12th, 2005, 08:16 PM
.....Still unhappy w/ Teal'c... Did anyone else notice that he was speaking more oddly than usual, sort of speaking low and drawing his words out: "Indeeeed." ~Freaky.~


Just proves hes been spending waayy too much time with his fellow jaffa. Hes reverting back to season 1.

BTW why was he here? That was odd, they made such a production of him leaving last week only for him to show up on an SGC mission this week. And unlike the last 4 eps there was no "Im Daniels Friend so I am going to stick by him" reason.

Still a good ep though. I think I liked all the characters pretty much. I dont like the good guys not winning but I am hoping this will just make their successes later more dramatic. What I will dislike is if they don't have any successes this year in hopes of saving them all for a season 10 or somthing, that would be depressing, I dont watch SG-1 to be depressed. But still its nice to have a heavier ep for those who like those. A good mix makes for a good season.

Seshat
August 12th, 2005, 08:18 PM
I was more pleased with this episode than all the ones that preceded it this season put together. :) The pacing of the dialogue still seems a little off, and why are there so many dramatic pauses and long glances (tum tum ta tummmm) at fade outs?? They draaagggg the show down. :( But the team idea seems to be starting to gel. The characters look more comfortable together. :D

Vala was way less annoying this go 'round. I think I liked her the best when she was imitating her former Goa'uld self! :p And I was thrilled that the team finally got outside, even if "outside" was half-CGI and half-location only for the long shots. I never thought I'd say this, but I am beginning to miss those Vancouver forests! :rolleyes: Anything is better than another ep shot entirely indoors on that medieval village set....I don't care WHAT the directors (or Joe) say, that set (and its lighting) look exactly the same to me no matter how they dress it to create a "different" planet.

Still liking Landry and the new doc, although I think that the producers shot themselves in the foot by announcing and promoting their father/daughter relationship even before the season began. It would have played much better as a surprise to the viewers. Just MHO.

the fifth man
August 12th, 2005, 08:22 PM
It will be a nice little side-story to see what happens between the general and the good doctor. How their relationship progresses.

NightGloom
August 12th, 2005, 08:27 PM
It wasn't that bad of an episode, I actually jumped when the prior interrupted Daniel. They're creepy looking and definitely powerful, but I miss the explosions. And Vala got a bit of depth (What is it? ONE episode left? And she just gets a bit of depth now? It better be a killer episode for me to feel any empathy for her)

I don't like what's happening to Teal'c. I know he got a few episodes to himself last season, but that's no reason to exclude him this season. Plus, shouldn't they have given him a reason to be there? He was so reluctant to leave before, but now he just shows up.

I don't understand why Mitchell got sick either. I would have liked to have seen him up and trying to help so we could get to know the character a little better. Possibly the Ori can control who gets the plague, but why did they pick him? It's understandable why they might want only one of the people from Earth to get the disease, so the rest can see the damaging effects of it. But that still doesn't explain why they picked Mitchell, I don't recall him saying that he was the leader in the precense of the prior.

the fifth man
August 12th, 2005, 08:29 PM
Not sure on the reasons mitchell got sick myself. Overall, still an awesome episode by my standards.

Seshat
August 12th, 2005, 08:36 PM
BTW, did anyone else get the feeling that Daniel was channeling Capt. Kirk during his "Technology" discussion with the Prior?? :rolleyes: All. Those. Pauses. In....His Speech. :p

Sorry, it just had to be said. ;) I enjoyed the rest of MS' performance overall.

Hatcheter
August 12th, 2005, 08:37 PM
I really liked this episode, especially because of how it ended:


SG-1 LOST!!!

They failed, and got their butts handed to them in the process. The only reason they are still alive is because the Prior spared them. I'm looking forward to seeing how widespread the Prior's work will be, and what they may do to worlds that reject them, and the ones that do.

the fifth man
August 12th, 2005, 08:37 PM
Yeah, just shows how powerful the Ori can be. Going to be one hell of a struggle.

Osiris-RA
August 12th, 2005, 08:38 PM
In breif how I rate " The Micheal Shanks Show Starring Micheal Shanks, Claudia Black, and all those other people from S1-8.

Plot: Ok. Better than last time.

Ori: Still boring. Annoying now.

Vala: Eh, I can stand her. Can't wait till Sam comes back to kick her butt though. :p BUT, she made some nice development.

Lam: LMAO.

Landry: *snnnooorrrreee* And what's with the leather jacket?

Teal'c: What did he say - about 6 sentences? The guy has a big mouth, LET HIM USE IT!!!

Prior guy: Ah hahahaha, that bullet scene is straight outta the Matrix - but cool. Um...still, how is superior being defined by this heaviness of your makeup? :S

Mitchell: Darn. He came back to life. I'M KIDDING!! :p No no, it was all very touching and sniffly, "oh, thank god, they survived after all!!" Yeah, nicely done.

Erm..that's about it... overal, o-tay. :)

MasySyma
August 12th, 2005, 08:42 PM
I enjoyed the episode. It was nice to see Vala care about someone other than herself, and I was surprised and thrilled when SG-1 lost this time.

Of course I cheer on the heroes like almost everyone else, but if the Ori had won this time, they would be a new Goa'uld. SG-1 will need to find a way to defeat an enemy that can bring people back from the dead--definitely a skill they don't have, no matter who has naquadah in their blood.

It reminded me of early SG-1 when the characters feared the multitude of the Goa'uld and the vastness of the universe when trying to track Aphophis down. Will they find a solution? Of course. Will it be soon? Maybe not. I don't want to watch them lose all season either, but they need a few setbacks before the team can realize what they are dealing with and fight back accordingly.

Personally, I liked Dr. Lam in this episode. She is concerned for her patients, and I want to see more of the causes for the animosity with the General. If he did abandon her mother and her, as she hinted, she may have every reason to hate him and resent Jack for tricking her into the post.

I agree that it was odd that Mitchell got sick, but I may have a theory for that. The Prior saw no significance in Teal'c, so they left him alone, for now. The Prior's main goal was to stop Daniel and Vala and to attempt to convert them, or at least scare them. Mitchell hampered the efforts of the first Prior to visit Earth, so he recevied the Prior's attention as a way to show an Earthling what the Ori are about and to silence Daniel and Vala in front of the planet's population. It makes sense to chose him. I just wish that we would have seen him feel sick before falling terminally ill suddenly.

Overall, it was a good episode. I look forward to next week.

FoolishPleasure
August 12th, 2005, 08:54 PM
Very good episode, IMO. Daniel has been good all season, and Vala. . I love Vala even more - always did feel her "sexy" act was more of a mask to a horrible past.

Puzzled about Mitchell getting sick though (like the rest of you). Maybe a scene was cut somewhere. Vala and Teal'c I can understand having immunity. As for Daniel - the Ori have a sort of "interest" in him for some reason - perhaps his link to the Ancients.

The Priors/Ori are just plain creepy and I'm getting into this invincible arc. They do have an Achilles' Heal (every villian does), but we aren't going to see it for awhile. The Gou'ald always were a tad cartoonish (which was fun), but these guys are true science fiction. They just might make things very interesting!

Carter next week! *clapping*

Downside: Mitchell and Teal'c. Neither seems to be doing much. Someone toss them a meaty script to chew on. :D

Overall. . .thumbs up this week!

illuminarok
August 12th, 2005, 08:59 PM
I'm hoping the reason they need people to worship them is because they don't really ascend the people who follow them. They just lead them along like little lemmings over a cliff, that way no one else can ascend. Either that or they feed off of them once they ascend.

Mio
August 12th, 2005, 09:02 PM
I'm becoming increasining agitated with our Ancients. I mean, I kept half expecting a flash of bright white light and the glowy form of Oma to appear and blast the Prior to little bits.

One thing I was wondering about this episode is:

Do we still have the Ancient healing cube, or was it destroyed in the self destruct of the Alpha site? I mean, it would have probably fixed the problem.....Just run it for only a few minutes on a low setting....

Edit: I had another thought. Daniel mentioned wondering about why the Orii care about worshippers. It would be like me demanding a pack of geese half way across the world to worship me.

Perhaps its to actually PREVENT ascention? Maybe they don't want others to ascend, and possibly challenge them, but can't wipe them out for some reason?

esoap524
August 12th, 2005, 09:14 PM
Here's an idea though. Instead of swapping Vala for Sam, let's swap Mitchell for Sam! Vala can stay.

You need to jump into the SG1 thread on Televison Without Pity where the part of Mitchell is now being played by Claudia Black, and the two women (Sam and Cameron) get to kick some intergalactic booty.

Fun idea anyway. give Mitch a chance--Browder's a good actor and he's capable of a LOT more than he's been given so far. Black finally got her chance tonight and she did an admirable job.

I was so glad to see that Vala's change of heart came from within and "without" as far as seeing the death around her. In other words, it didn't come from Daniel's love or anything corny like that. I really had the feeling that she had some affection for these people, especially that poor guy who had to "mas-sage" her feet (nobody can say "massage" like Claudia Black--LOL)

This was sufficiently intense and, yeah, you really get the idea that this is gonna be an uphill battle for SG1 but that's ok. This is really the team's first real confrontation with the Ori/Priors and I liked that it didn't get wrapped up in one neat little package to end the episode. This is going to be a recurring theme.

I think Vala's pleas to Mitchell should go straight to those other "powers that be". I sure am going to miss her, especially after tonight's episode. I can see where she'd fit on the team. Well, you know, for those covert, black ops type things. Like Krycek ;)

RedGuard
August 12th, 2005, 09:14 PM
I just re-watched The Powers That Be, and it was mentioned the plague the Prior gave those people was similar to that of the one that nearly wiped out the Ancients. Perhaps it was the same one and the Ori gave it to the Ancients. Could also be why the Ori didn't know about our galaxy, because they believed they wiped out the Ancients. Of course when they ascended the Ancients blocked them from detecting it.

Small universe.

This probably has been mentioned before.

Traveler Enroute1
August 12th, 2005, 09:16 PM
Hot episode.

Vala's being on death row again was funny, but her dawning responsibility and regret were impressive developments. I knew the lady was more than a sexpot and that the writers were going to give Claudia's talent some showcasing. Too bad it's AT THE END OF HER APPEARANCES! Thanks a lot. Still, worth watching her try to take the Prior out; Chickwithagun is back and she's bad (for a little while, anyway :( )

I enjoyed Daniel's attempt to reason with the people regarding the Ori. His observation that killing those who disagree with Ori teaching was not the best way to win converts was nicely passionate. However, I think he was using language that was probably above the citizens' level.

Interesting dilemma for the Team. To have to leave the planet in the hands of the Ori's compassionless hands was definitely a blow to them, esp so to Vala and Daniel who had up close and personal knowledge of their ways. When Mitchell got sick, it reminded me of the conversation he had with Samantha, half joking about her "coming to help him fix what he screwed up." That may actually apply, being he got sick right in the thick of things and was rather useless to the Team or the people. Curiously weak plot device in this neat ep.

And come on, CJ has the best voice on the show, how's about letting us hear him say more than "Indeed?" Hope he gets more to say and do next week and the coming weeks.

Dr. Lam is growing on me, but for some reason I still see Janet in her; the way she presses her lips together when thinking, or walks with her hands in her pockets. Are those "doctor" mannerisms?

Green light, thumbs' up, and all that. The first shots have been fired across the Tau'ri bow; show us how they take 'em out! :D

(On a premonition note: I also got the feeling Vala might become some form of Ori/Prior. Don't know why that thought, exactly. :S )

Just sayin'.

Sela
August 12th, 2005, 09:18 PM
This was a pretty good episode. I must say that as Vala keeps going I like her better. Her vamping is more subtle which I like better for the character. I love how Daniel is still annoyed with any and everything she says and the way he snapped, "Shut that thing off!" had quite a bite to it. It sounded like he was ready to slap her silly.

Again, I like the way Mitchell is being brought along. He is so relaxed and laid back and to me, he's funny as all get out. Some of the lines he casually dropped had me really laughing. I like him. He's cool enough and secure enough within himself that he doesn't have to be in the forefront all the time. I like that. Right now, I understand the focus is on Daniel and Vala, but I just waiting for the time when Mitchell comes to the fore and I suspect that's going to be when Sam shows back up. (Next Week - yea!)

Still not impressed with the Orii. So they use Ancient technology to infect then heal the people. Big deal. The sarcs the Goa'uld used to renew, heal and raise from the dead was built on ancient tech. The Orii have just figured out how to do in with a staff weapon.

Interesting little side story with Lam and Dad. :) It got my attention, which is what I expect it was suppose to do.

Deputy-Assistant-Second-Prime
August 12th, 2005, 09:27 PM
Yes, it has been mentioned on other threads.

Each discuss a particular piece of the Ancient/Ori puzzle.

Well, when the characters discussed the potential link between the Ancient virus and the current virus, I definitely got a vibe.

"The Ori used the virus on the Ancients" kinda vibe.

And I also would like to point out Daniel's question about why the Ori want us to worship them. Many fans have asked this same question. Can't wait to find out the answer.

Uber
August 12th, 2005, 09:32 PM
Can you say wooden? After seeing her I really, really miss Janet even more than before - talk about a gaping hole - now there's another one, or better yet, still that same one plus all of the others.I guess I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you here, bink...

Initially she was a little wooden who saw red when people used alien technology in Avalon without cluing her in...

But in TPTB, we're seeing that beneath the surface lies a lot of animosity for her father and a passion for her work...

Don't get me wrong...I still miss Janet immensely. But I think Lam has potential...

:cool:

Erik Bloodaxe
August 12th, 2005, 09:44 PM
Edit: I had another thought. Daniel mentioned wondering about why the Orii care about worshippers. It would be like me demanding a pack of geese half way across the world to worship me.

Perhaps its to actually PREVENT ascention? Maybe they don't want others to ascend, and possibly challenge them, but can't wipe them out for some reason?

No, I think that'd be a pretty weak reason, as why even repopulate the worlds in their own galaxy if they didn't want anyone else to be able to ascend? ;)

I actually had a very different idea for their motivation that I speculated about on my own board. I think what may've happened in their history (and this episode maybe gives evidence of) is that they were at war w/ the Alterans previously, but the Alterans ascended and actually outnumbered them to the point that they could force-descend the Ori then wipe their memory of humans in the Milky Way. When the Ori reascended, they just didn't regain their memories and kept to their little corner of the universe; but the whole "we'll guide you to the path of enlightenment" may be to actually gain an army by which to wage a more winning war against the Alterans. They furthermore treat their subjects cruly in order to instill such a level of fear that it'll persist even after they've ascended, and the Ori can thus command them and have unquestioned loyalty from them. :) That's my own thoughts, at any rate.

-Bloodaxe

keshou
August 12th, 2005, 09:45 PM
Decent episode. Didn't totally blow me away but I thought it did a good job of making you believe the Ori are going to be difficult for SG-1 to deal with. I'm actually glad SG-1 lost at the end - they need to lose a few battles if this villain is going to have any chance of being a intriguing nemesis. But I can't say I really find the Ori/priors all that scary. At least not yet. I'm really hoping the reason they want to everyone to worship them is a good one. Daniel made quite a point of asking the question so I'm assuming that's going to be a key component of the new "big bad".

Vala finally got a little of the depth I was hoping for and Claudia hit it out of the park. I have to say she makes a great Goa'uld - the play at the beginning was pretty funny. Having Vala finally show concern for her former subjects was a nice touch - mixed, of course, with her trademark avarice. I'm going to miss her energy and wit. Especially now that the OTT sex stuff is (mostly) gone. Too bad we can't have Sam and get Vala back every so often as well. More girl power. :)

Daniel was sufficiently frustrated and gave a few nice speeches. Going to miss seeing him spar with Vala.

Mitchell had some fun moments with Vala in this episode. That was nice to see as they've pretty well kept them apart. I think Mitchell's going to be fine - he just needs some more development.

Like someone said above, I thought Mitchell getting sick was a pretty weak plot device and it would sure be nice to find out why none of the rest of the gang got ill. The big dramatic moment of seeing him lying ill on the table was - not that dramatic, actually.

Lam hasn't grown on me yet but I guess there's still time. I'm sort of interested in seeing where they're going with this father/daughter thing.

Teal'c was.....there. ;)

On thing I'm still not feeling is that these people (the new group) are really connecting with each other for that "team/family" feeling that the original SG-1 always had. Maybe that will change when Sam comes back and the "band is back together". I think we need to see the new SG-1 in a real bonding episode. Maybe group torture. Or jello night. :p :D

Arative
August 12th, 2005, 09:59 PM
Over all I liked this episode but then I've liked all the episodes so far. One slight nitpick, there was no explanation as to why Teal'c was with them, last we saw him, Daniel was hugging him good bye. I suppose the scene explaining why he was there could have ended up on the cutting room floor but I would have liked to have seen a reason he was with the team.

What can I say about Vala. This episode really showed a different side to her than what we've seen before. It should be quite clear to everyone now that she uses her sexuality to keep everyone at a distance, pretty much acts the way she does so no one would expect anything of her. People do that in the real world all the time. You could really see that she does care about certain things other than her treasures. She cared about those people on that planet or why would she set up a justice system or try to heal them even when there was no hope for them? Really laid the groundwork for a great recurring character and I hope that we see her several times a year, assuming SG-1 will get some more seasons.

And Daniel did ask the million dollar question. Why would the Ori care if lower life forms worshipped them? I think that the answer will be interesting. I think that our Ancients or should we call them Alterans now and the Ori split millions of years ago and the Alterans came to our galaxy to escape the Ori fanatism. I'm looking forward to learning much more about both the Alterans and the Ori.

So far I've really enjoyed this season and look forward to the rest of the season. Glad to have Sam back because I like her character but will be sad to see Vala go because she certainly brings a new and different dyanmic to the show but will be content with having Vala as a recurring character.

ocalacam
August 12th, 2005, 10:02 PM
Many people on several threads had questioned the need of the Orii to be "worshipped" and I agreed that beings that sufficiently advanced shouldn't be worried about such petty things. Thing is...in "TPTB" this same thought is voiced by Daniel and Vala during their conversation at the jail. So, it seems to me like the REAL Powers That Be (SG-1 writers & producers) are very aware of this inconsistency and that the actual reason the Orii need/want to be worshipped has not been revealed and will turn out to be much, much darker than we've been led to believe so far. It wouldn't surprise me if the true agenda of the Orii was kept from even the Priors...

GateMan2000
August 12th, 2005, 10:06 PM
Yes...Not a bad episode..but is sort of explained what happened to the ancients

lazerbrain
August 12th, 2005, 10:06 PM
This episode just proves that I am going to miss Vala in the future. I think that Claudia Black is monumentally hot, and I really miss her carrying a gun around. Besides I think I was kinda turned on by the Vala Goa'uld voice. [/gushing about Claudia] Thought I did love her Goa'uld outfit too.
:D Okay really I'm done.


Anyway, I have to salute the writers and producers of the show.


I really liked this episode, especially because of how it ended:

SG-1 LOST!!!

They failed, and got their butts handed to them in the process. The only reason they are still alive is because the Prior spared them. I'm looking forward to seeing how widespread the Prior's work will be, and what they may do to worlds that reject them, and the ones that do.

It takes a lot of courage to let the story have its own life. Sometimes SG1 feels like they will solve every problem in an hour or two. This time, they didn't. I think this is really interesting. It actually reminds me of Battlestar Gallactica. The good guys don't always win on Battlestar either.

It's going to be a fun ride. :cool:

Hyperspace
August 12th, 2005, 10:13 PM
I thought this ep was good, and yet bad.

For me, the Ori are increasingly tiresome. I hope they don't go on season after season...this ep was interesting, especially the 'lawyer' part which I thought was the highlight and an interesting debate point.

However, we didn't learn much--I suppose this ep was needed to show the mechanics of how the Ori took control (and I assume, some 35% of the galaxy? estimate). But we didn't learn much--aside from possible Ori manufacturing of the plague. Otherwise, the reason why the Ori need worshipping is still unclear.

And I felt a deeply depreessing sense at the end, that people were going to be hoodwinked all over again, first the Goa'uld, now the Ori...ugh.

And "Hallowed are the Ori" is getting really really annoying. Makes me want to scream!!!

Otherwise, I think there was an interesting subplot with Dr. Lam and Gen. Landry, and I think that Daniel did a good job, Vala was good...

...Teal'c is dangerously close to rivaling the 'Worf syndrome' in the Star Trek movies...aka why is he there? Early on, it starts with tenuous 'visit explanations' and then they give up, and dispense with any explanation at all. But it's not as bad as Worf in the TNG movies, and I'm glad to see Teal'c around.

So, in general I think this ep was needed - to show the casual viewer what the Ori are all about, but essentially it's the bait-and-switch--spread a virus, then cure it and be worshipped as gods. Ugh.

ShadowMaat
August 12th, 2005, 10:13 PM
Many people on several threads had questioned the need of the Orii to be "worshipped" and I agreed that beings that sufficiently advanced shouldn't be worried about such petty things.
Maybe the why will provide the answer to their downfall. ;)

Maybe they're like the Wraith only they feed off belief. :P

In the Discworld books, the gods need people to believe in them or they cease to exist. Maybe the Ori are in a similar bind.

Wraith_King
August 12th, 2005, 10:23 PM
WEll why does my god christian god want me to worship him because hes selfish and he created me u do know the Ori, technically the ancients which they call evil created us and the ori created the other humans.

mo24
August 12th, 2005, 10:26 PM
I noticed that the info screen for "The powers that be" episode tonight listed the cast as: 'Beau Bridges, Amanda Tapping, ...' (on Dish Network)

Was Amanda Tapping (Sam) in tonight's show and I somehow missed it? Or was that just a fluke on the info screen.

I liked tonight's episode a lot. It brought back a lot of the old Stargate SG1 feel to me. Just wish they would give poor Teal'c a little more air time and flesh out Mitchell's character a little bit more. Pleasantly surprised by this season so far.

majorsal
August 12th, 2005, 11:06 PM
this ep was much better than last weeks 'ties that bind'. everyone seemed to act in character (or more aptly, acted like ppl in these situations would behave), and vala actually showed the depth i'd wanted to see. ;)

didn't like landry putting up with his snotty daughter, though, but i'm sure we're going to see him say 'knock it off!' sooner or later. but liked lam's reaction when landry left her alone in the food court (whatever it's called :p).

teal'c is still being wasted. why was he with them anyways?

liked mitchell again!

there were a couple of scenes that felt forced for me (a daniel scene and and a vala scene), but this ep was so far and above better than last weeks that i'll leave it behind me.

i LOVED seeing the coming attractions to sam returning next week! :D



sally :)

Hatcheter
August 12th, 2005, 11:15 PM
I'm thinking it's less about the Ori's desire for worship and more about them imposing their view on others.

In 'Origin' Daniel said that the Book of Origin taught "meditation on one's worth and significance". We also say the Ori "promote" the priest character to a Prior. Unlike the Alterans, the Ori seem to think it is their duty to help those below them ascend. However, in a fit of self-righteous arrogance, they have also apparently decided that all who reject their generous offer are obviously unfit to continue inhabiting the universe.

Shipperahoy
August 13th, 2005, 12:01 AM
I thought that it was a pretty good ep, if a bit slow at times. Last week I was worried that they were making Vala the token sexy female again but I was back to liking her again this week. However, the show left more than one unanswered question. For one, why was Mitchell the only one to get sick? I guess I'll choose to believe that they'll answer that one in another episode, perhaps in The Fourth Horseman since we know that that one involves disease. At least that's they way that I'll choose to look at it since it's better than just leaving it unanswered. The next thing is that last week Teal'c pretty much said that he wasn't going to be a member of SG-1 again and yet there he was, business as usual, with no explanation. Were the episode orders changed perhaps?

It was yet another Daniel and Vala heavy episode which I don't mind per se but every episode this season has been Daniel and Vala heavy. I do realize that they have Claudia Black for a limited amount of time and have to make good use of that time but I do think that it's negatively affecting Ben Browder's ability to convery any personal aspect of Mitchell that may get the audience to connect with that character. I don't dislike Mitchell and I certainly don't think that Ben Browder is doing anything wrong, he's doing the best with what he's been given but I haven't gotten any real sense of the character yet and I would think that, given the fact that he's the new main character, that that would be a top priority.

As I said, overall it was an enjoyable ep despite it's inconsistancies but I'm really looking forward to see how the dynamic is when Amanda is back next week and I'm actually really excited to see the interaction between her and Vala. Thus far Vala has only really had the menfolk to play off of so it will be interesting to see what Sam makes of her.

sparklegem
August 13th, 2005, 01:09 AM
I'm basking in these Orii episodes. It's practically the first time in a year that Daniel has gotten the opportunity to be doing all the things I love about him, instead of being a substitute Jack. Passionately defending principles and people, interacting and communicating with cultures, comprehending and working through philosophical and social issues. His going up against the Prior in an attempt to negate his influence was really fabulous, and pretty awe inspiring for the character. Can you imagine keeping a level head facing off with not only a Prior, but the man who recently attempted to send you to your death?

I was thrilled that after five episodes of her, Vala and her background actually became interesting and useful, and we got to see a more human side of her. I have to say that Katesh had great taste in hosts. Vala made a great Goa'uld astetically and she played one very well. I loved the moment between her and Daniel on her throne when she told him she was his god. Vala was just carrying through perfectly, but with all the pain Daniel's suffered at the hands of the Goa'uld, I could feel the seriousness of the moment from his perspective. Frankly, I wish that TPTB had tapped more of the dramatic potential of Vala's background as a host, seeing her reconnect with some experience as a host without copying Cor'ai. That she was a host seems to be used as a plot contrevance more than anything else. After the other five episodes though, I'll take what I can get.

I have to admit that I was terribly slow absorbing the Mitchell is sick thing. It wasn't until the last second of the scene where he's revealed as sick that I realized it was Mitchell I was staring at. I saw the military hair cut and thought, "Hmm, that's not native." Then I looked at Daniel and Vala to figure out who we were missing. :o Sorry Mitchell. It's not you, it's me, and maybe the fact that I haven't gotten enough of you to connect with.

I really appreciated the fact that this wasn't a happy ending, SG-1 didn't save the day.
I must have missed something -- why was Teal'c there? Last week, didn't we see him leave? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he was -- but an explanation would have been nice.
I thought the same thing. They've been explaining why he's come back to earth in the past episodes, but now he's just randomly tagging along? My guess would be that learning more about the Orii is in the Jaffa Nation's best interest. Have to keep up on galactic politics.

Landry needs to be doing WAYYYYYY more than talking to his daughter...we never even say Hammond have lunch one time!!!!! Landry needs to be calling the President on the red phone or be in the gate room supervising things. I agree in that I'd like to see more of Landry running the SGC.
Still liking Landry and the new doc, although I think that the producers shot themselves in the foot by announcing and promoting their father/daughter relationship even before the season began. It would have played much better as a surprise to the viewers. I was wondering during tonight's episode what I would have thought of them for the past few weeks if I hadn't known the nature of their relationship. It would have been more fun for me, and the show itself seemed to be playing for the slowly reveal it card.

The only other thing that kind of bothered me was how accepting and kind of mellow the natives seemed, I got more of a normal civilized earth vibe from them. Daniel, a stranger, says a few lines about what a Goa'uld is, a completely foreign notion of body snatching to them, and they just assume it's true and move along. And also, they've been revering Vala as a goddess for so long and then as soon as they find out the truth they so easily slip into treating her casually. I was expecting something, denial, panic... I mean, their world was just turned upside down, and Vala was the center of it. Even if they recognize her as just human, their past relationship severly inhibits the quick transition to interacting with her on an equal level. She walked around outside without a second glance from others.

kryon22
August 13th, 2005, 04:46 AM
If the Ori created the plague, where do the Wraith fit in? Or did they just run around killing aimlessly?

And if it IS the Ori, does this mean that the plague sample the Atlantis team found in Hot Zone is from the Ori? Because that would severely suck. I'd rather have it be from an enemy who's actually scary and intimidating instead of arrogant and self-absorbed. You know, something slightly different from every other major enemy in SG-1 and Atlantis. ;)

Hey ShadowMaat,

Maybe I can answer your questions with more suppositions and generalities. While I agree with you in some context with your issue with the way bad guys present themselves in the stargate universe, I'm here to specifically address the virus/pathogen question.

In normal biological terms, no virus has the capacity to mutate as quickly as is presented in The Powers That Be. At least not with what we've encountered on Earth in real life. The adaptations that the medical team were talking about is probably in reference to (with the highest profile) similar instances in the HIV virus to different antiviral measures that HIV positive patients take to combat the virus. BASICALLY (to the uninitiated), just like bacteria, measures that we take to combat infection like chemical anti-microbials (antibiotics) operate on a chemical specificity that inhibits or kills the pathogen selectively without harming ourselves. However, given that microbial replication times are much shorter than us and happens in greater individual populations as compared to us, they possess a unique ability to adapt to these anti-microbials to render them ineffective or inoperable in a much shorter time than us higher organisms can. So, conceivably, for the Ori to keep the population of that planet relapsing to the plague, they'd have to be actively controlling and modifying the virus to escape the host immune system (interestingly enough, a Goa'ulded entity would be able to last longer than a non-Goa'ulded entity, but would eventually succumb) such that each patient keeps relapsing...given what we know of ascended beings and their ability to transcend and affect matter on many different levels, it's not unheard of.

So, specifically, with regards to the plague that the Ancients were suffering, it's conceivable that it could have been of Ori origin (try saying that ten times fast....gigglez). And given what we know of the robustness of Ancient physiology and the technological means with which they could ensure that health status, it stands to reason that while a mundane infectious agent couldn't fell an Ancient, one that had the assistance of an ascended being could (in real time as well).

With regards to the virus that was encountered in Hot Zone, it's nanotech based. Which means that it might not necessarily be Ori influenced. If an ascended being can use an already formed organic entity like a biological virus to klll an Ancient or it's descendants, why would they use a nanotechnological entity to do so? By it's very nature, that it is susceptible to EM pulses, that it has a predictable infection and pathological pattern rendering it subject to possible treatment, would be a lousy pathogen to inflict on their enemies and descendants. Simply because, it is too easily treated.

Too many unanswered questions arising from unasked questions and unlooked for details remain with regards to the Hot Zone nanovirus. As a scientist, I'd look for more distinguishing features, programming codes, signatures etc, before I'd start to look at who's the culprit.

ShimmeringStar
August 13th, 2005, 06:04 AM
So, General Landry is Dr. Lam's father? When they were fist talking at lunch, I thought they were an old couple, and that would've been really weird. So, what do you guys think about this? It sure makes for some interesting character development.

I wonder if we'll get to meet the mom, or will it be a classic case of the mom has died.

And do you think the other characters know about this?No, don't think they do. Which gives the writers a chance to have the older characters do doubletakes when they work out the connections between these newbies to the SGC. Which could be handled well, or not. Except maybe Sam might know when she returns. She'll probably have done her homework and read up on Lan's history & see he's got children and -oh- one of them is a doctor in the AF named Lam! O.M.G. :eek: :p

But... ahhhhh… I get it now… :rolleyes: as evil payback for not being able to have a ship with Sam due to the regs, Jack brings in more ships that smack big time of being against the regs… Cam/Lam and Lam/Lan….. Sneaky sneaky Jack. ;) :D

macktheknife
August 13th, 2005, 06:37 AM
I think the Ori need to bring another doctor back from death....

I would worship them if that happened.

ChillinTheMost
August 13th, 2005, 07:01 AM
Yeah, I didn't realize it was Mitchell that was sick at first and I've been staring at Ben Browder for, what? six years? Must have been a bad angle or this fangirl is slacking!

You all know this much better than me, but doesn't having a symbiote, even in the past, leave something in your system? Some of that naquahdah or something? Maybe the virus/whatever doesn't infect people with that. Don't know about Daniel, though, unless the sarcophagus does something, too? Everything in the G'ould world seems to work off of naquadah, so maybe that does, too? <-- That may all be totally off the mark, because I don't analyse all the eps the way some of you all do. /// But this part, I think, makes some sense --> Mitchell was the only person there that doesn't have a past history one-on-one with the G'oulds, so maybe that's the connection? If the writers actually have a reason for Mitchell being the only one infected, than I'm guessing it has to do with that, because they kept the med team in their protective gear or else Lam [at least] would be in the same boat as Mitchell, non-G'ould-interaction-wise.

I loved this episode. Still loving season 9. And I agree that it's time for Mitchell to take a more active part. I understand if they are trying not to shove him down everyone's throats [after the preseason media blitz], but now it's time for him to make his move, so to speak.

I like the toning down of Vala, but I'm more excited that Sam will be back next week! I hope the promises of a strong, capable Sam are fulfilled!

Cam/Lam/Lan: Cam & Lam could have had a romantic relationship in the past, as spoilered/rumored. Landry wouldn't necessarily know about it if he was estranged with his wife and daughter, as it appears he is. I doubt even if they weren't estranged, that Lam would tell her father about every guy she dated, especially if it didn't get to the engagement phase. I figure it was a average dating relationship, never got to the engaged/talking about marriage stage and Cam got transferred or Lam moved on to another job. It wasn't that hot & heavy, so they said goodbye amicably and moved on. Just a possibility.

Okay, I have to watch it a few more times to write about anything specific, but a few things I remember... Red Jell-O, hmmm. Where did Vala get the secret file? She had it when she came into the mess. I loved when Vala played with Mitchell's nose and said she'd give them 20%. The quickly lowered it back to 10% when he said something she didn't like.

A lot more Vala/Mitchell interaction. I thought it was fun.

JacksCSM
August 13th, 2005, 07:14 AM
I appreciated Martin Gero being the writer for this one. He brought a different perspective to the show that we haven't seen in a long time. Had more of a hard edge with a frantic bit going on. Liked the infusion. Also we haven't had Will Waring direct in a while and that was good too. We've seen S9 as a different season and this is more evidence of that.

M-m-m actually found myself liking Vala more in this episode than any of the others. Think the bringing forth more of her 'humanity' than sexuality was the key. The vixen was wearing on me.

DJ became more of the old DJ, the diplomat and talker, rather than the placing more emphasis on his 'tactical' side as has been done over the last season. Props to MS for giving us his all for so long.

If there is one 'nitpick' it is why was Teal'c there? Just didn't get that at all.

Was nice to see this as a episode in which SG1 'lost'. They can't win all of the time. This would be only the 3 or 4th time out of 9 seasons (don't quote me on that) when they 'lost'. Makes the SGC work for what they get.

Liked the 'reveal' of the Laundry/Lam relationship. If you blinked you missed it but it still had a good punch to it. As long as Lam isn't publicly insolent to Laundry this will be a good behind the scenes/character story line. The dynamic between civilian and military is a bit different and Lam's doing okay. If she goes public with her what we've seen as her 'private' insolence he'll be forced to step on her.

Laundry is a different type of leader. You don't make Major General because Congress likes the color of your eyes (all General grad officers are recommended by the President and approved by Congress). He has his own style. Also as general, he has a large staff he trusts to take care of the day-to-day stuff and he does the big things. Laundry's been doing what a general should - in his way. He'll develop more.

Probably the best of S9 so far. The Ori have me, almost, more worried than the Gould ever did. The Ori don't have that sometimes almost comedic edge that the Gould did from S6-S8. These villains walk in and you really worry that they are there and what are they going to do.

Just my humble opinions. ;)

Kalliope
August 13th, 2005, 07:30 AM
Brilliant episode, really brilliant episode. Martin Gero definitely should write more often for SG-1. Now I'm going to miss Vala million times more than I thought after next week episode.

My theory on being or not immune to the plague is that being a host to symbiont probably made Vala immune, Daniel as far as I know (didn't see seasons 1-6) ascended and this probably made him immune, Teal'c is Jaffa, they're probably more immune too. Mitchell is a pure human being, so he got sick. Poor Mitchell: "what did I miss?"

Kalliope
August 13th, 2005, 07:32 AM
Daniel was never in the episode FROZEN from s6. Maybe he was immune because he was an ascended?

That's my theory too.

ShadowMaat
August 13th, 2005, 07:37 AM
With regards to the virus that was encountered in Hot Zone, it's nanotech based.
Oh yeah. Dunno why I keep forgetting about those nanites. ;)

The plague thing still seemed too easy to me. And like I said, Nirrti already went that route in Metamorphosis. If the Ori are so scary and all-powerful, maybe they should try coming up with their OWN ideas instead if stealing from their "lessers". ;)

And yeah, I know it was probably a focus because of the one guy that got healed, but... well, it still might have been nice to see it spun in a different direction. Martin's good at taking old ideas and making them new, but... this ep just didn't do a lot for me. *shrug*

Maxum
August 13th, 2005, 07:52 AM
I loved this episode. I like the philosophy behind what the episode was about last night. I think the Ori are very scary. Not physically, but intellectually. The Ori are slowly attempting to convert civilization after civilization to their radical way of thinking. And, as Daniel asked, why are they doing it? Why do they want those beneath them to worship them? What's the twist? I guess we'll find out.

I noticed a bit of rivalry and animosity between Daniel and the Ori. It's a fight between them, much more so than Vala. This Ori walked right up to Daniel at the end of the episode and smiled at him, as if to say: "Heh, I gotcha. I won." This is going to be very personal for Daniel.

I always liked Vala, so, of course I enjoyed her in last night's episode. I'm also glad that she showed a crack in her armor (when her "servant" died), and I'm glad Daniel witnessed it. In fact, when Mitchell called Daniel on his radio, Daniel asked if it could wait (because he knew she was really upset about what just happened.) Nice little moment. I also liked at the end when Vala took the gun to shoot the Ori. That moment was based solely on her wanting to atone for what had happened to these people. You could tell by the look on her face, she was pissed. Another good moment.

Teal'c: He needs more to do, and it's not his fault. Although, frankly, alot of Teal'c's interaction was with Jack. Jack would bounce one-liners off of Teal'c or take Teal'c as backup, ect. I'm beginning to notice the one big hole that's being left behind with RDA's departure is Teal'c. However, I believe this is only temporary. His bond to Sam and Daniel is permanent, and I think TBTB will have him mesh with Mitchell's character. I'll try and be patient -- just don't make me wait too long.

Daniel: Daniel is always great, and I like him most when he's showing his compassion for other people (which is most of the time, unless he's with Vala). Even if Sam was in this episode, the only member of SG-1 who would have been speaking for Vala or the people of the village, would have been Daniel. He's very good about cutting through the crap of someone's argument. I think that's why the Ori consider him such a danger, he's an empassioned speaker. I also think that's why they pointedly made an example - using him, making sure he witnessed the disease hitting everyone. I think it would have been better if everyone had fallen ill, except him, but whatever. MS was great.

Mitchell: I think Mitchell is coming along just fine. I'm sure he's still figuring out the character, and I know that Mitchell has some showcase episodes coming up. I like the fact that Mitchell is genuinely respectful of SG-1. It's already there from the getgo. Also, I know some people don't like him calling Daniel "Jackson." I like it. The only male who ever called Daniel "Daniel" was Jack. (Teal'c calls him "Daniel Jackson" and Hammond called him "Dr. Jackson.) I think it keeps the relationship between Mitchell and Daniel more realistic. They're not really friends; they don't know each other well yet. Maybe as the show evolves, Mitchell will start calling Daniel by his first name, and it will be a signal to the audience that the friendship is developing. But if it never happens, that's okay too. Jack and Daniel are best buddies, and I like they're dynamic -- miss it too.

Dr. Lam: She's a little too abrasive for my taste at the moment. I'm not saying she has to be all squishy and soft, but right now, I don't care for her. Soften those edges a little. Even when she's talking to the team, she's like an ice queen, but maybe that's what TPTB want at the moment. I'll have to wait and see.

Landry: I like Beau Bridges. I think he's a great addition to the cast. I like him, at the moment, better than Dr. Lam. He at least smiles every now and then.

In sum, I thoroughly enjoyed this episode, from beginning to end. It didn't move too slowly for me. I need time to absorb all the information. I think the Ori are truly evil, and I can easily see people on our planet falling for someone like him, which is what I think truly scares Daniel. I think that's what makes the Ori so scary. They don't come with overly scary faces or big weapons and ships. They come with a message. A very dangerous message written in the fine print for only those who are paying attention.

Can't wait for next episode! Sam's back!

shaqarava
August 13th, 2005, 07:53 AM
Has SG-1 since season 9 started always used that Atlantis wormhole effect? I hadn't noticed till i saw it in this ep. I thought it was only for the shorterned opening. I think it sucks, it's SG-1's last season they might as well have kept the original wormhole effect.

WhatFateAlmondRoca
August 13th, 2005, 08:01 AM
Theory on the reason the Ori demand worship: given there's a future ep referencing theThe Fourth Horseman which I'm assuming is from Revelations (last book in the Bible), I'm thinking that since the Ori and Ancients had a falling out, maybe the Ori just hate them so much they are wreaking as much havoc as possible on us mere mortals. "Making life hell...one soul at a time" kinda deal. Not only to try to keep us from ascending but to spite the Ancients??? If they have been protecting us in the MW it would really be an 'in yo face' thing for the Ori to come here and start their schtick. I dunno, but I'm a little more interested in the storyline now.

Vyse
August 13th, 2005, 08:04 AM
This was the first SG-1 episode I liked in a very very long time, since the beginning of S8. I'm glad they are addressing the issue as to why the Ori want to be worshipped, to me that was the reason why I didn't like them, it seemed pointless. Hopefully we will have a good reason as to why the Ori want to be worshipped. Definetly agree with the comparisions to BSG, you got the feeling that no matter what SG-1 does they can't beat this. Hopefully TPTB won't screw up what has been started.

AGateFan
August 13th, 2005, 08:15 AM
Has SG-1 since season 9 started always used that Atlantis wormhole effect? I hadn't noticed till i saw it in this ep. I thought it was only for the shorterned opening. I think it sucks, it's SG-1's last season they might as well have kept the original wormhole effect.

Not sure why people keep saying this is SG-1s last season. I hope its not and the TPTB hope its not since they are ending the season on a cliffhanger. Currently the ratings are plenty good and this is during the summer and before the story has really kicked off. Hopefully ratings remain the same or go up and we have a Season 10 if not more.

Liked this ep BTW.
Mitchell with his Jello, Vala about to steal his Jello and Mitchell taking it back is so SG-1.
Vala made a good goa'uld.
I was worried about Daniel there for a bit, sounded like he was arguing For the Ori.
Teal'c ..... needs somthing to do.
Landry I hate the leather Jacket. It seems so out of place
Lam Im still not sure about. I hate Soap Opras so I hope they dont take it that way.
Ori how the heck do you beat them and wouldnt their plans to convert people work a lot better if they just presented their evidence and then left people alone if they didnt want to convert. They could just keep coming bakc and presenting more evidence and eventually convert everyone just via repeating a pleasent message. If they played the peace card I think they would ultimatly end up with more followers over time. The "worship us now or die" thing seems kind of short sighted for eternal Gods.

eve11
August 13th, 2005, 08:22 AM
Gosh, now that you all mention it, why was Teal'c there? I didn't think about that until I read this thread, but now it's bothering me.

Maybe he's got the hots for Vala ;)

So, I wasn't spoiled for the Landry/Lam father-daughter reveal. But it was pretty much the foremost theory in my mind. nothing else really made sense. I'm wondering if it's a Vietnam-era thing. If Landry met Dr. Lam's mother while he was serving in Vietnam, and if they had an 'interlude' but they never were serious about it. It would explain why she still has her mother's last name, and her Asian-american descent, and the serious tension between her and Landry. That's a lot of 'if's, though. It would be an interesting thread, but it seems pretty deep to tackle on Stargate. Of course, they did also deal with Jack losing his son and his marraige -- so they have proven they can address darker themes.

Overall, I did like this episode quite a bit. They made good use of Vala's character. Daniel still talks too fast, but I'm liking the beard more. And, Teal'c and Mitchell playing war with the deck of cards, hee. I think they are going to have a good rapport, eventually.

warmbeachbrat
August 13th, 2005, 08:23 AM
One thing I've noticed about season nine so far is that after every episode, people post their thoughts and then have questions about why? Why did this happen? Why didn't they explain this? Then an episode or two later the answer to the question is given. I know that this can sometimes be difficult when you just watch an episode or two, but if you follow the show from start to finish, I'm just really loving the unfolding of the season. I might go "Huh?" or "Hmmm!" during one episode and then one or two episodes later go, "Aha!" I can see where it would drive some people crazy, but I like it. So questions about why did Tea'lc go along, or why did Mitchell get sick, or what is the deal with the Orii, just might possibly be answered a week or two down the road. You can bet I'll be paying attention!

I don't get the comments about Dr. Lam. I didn't think she was robotic or wooden at all. I even watched it a second time (after reading comments after the first airing) to see where that might be. I think that when she is not actually on duty, she feels free to be nasty to her dad (wonder what the backstory is there--wait, I'll bet they explain it in a further episode) or more animated with the people she talks to. When she is on duty, she feels she needs to be more detached and professional and perhaps that comes across as robotic and uncaring.

As for Teal'c's lack of talking--I don't remember him being all that talkative in previous episodes (remember Sam's line making fun, about that being so unlike him). Granted, it does seem like he hasn't had much to do--hopefully that will change.

I'm kind of curious about Vala's main worhipper (sorry, can't remember his name). She was so upset when he died--what do you suppose their relationship or interaction would be like when she finds out he's alive? Is he going to be an Ori worshipper now?

Oh the ending! I normally don't like sad or downbeat endings, but, in this case, I think it worked out quite well. I think the full impact of what the Ori mean to this galaxy is now beginning to be felt by the SG team. So far, they haven't done anything the Go'auld couldn't do, but, oh, the way they did it! Very chilling! I think the team is now realizing the extent of the threat. I can't wait for the rest of the season!

Erin
August 13th, 2005, 08:33 AM
Funniest part was when Vala was in the cell and trying to get out... she had one foot out and her head stickin' out and Daniel just leaves her there when he sees Mitchell coming in. I don't know why i found that so funny, but her facial expression and his was just funny.

I think that Lam and Cam are living together. :-D That's my thought. I really think they are living together. It makes a lot of sense to me.

eve11
August 13th, 2005, 08:47 AM
I think that Lam and Cam are living together.

OMG, Lam, Cam, and Sam!!! OT3!!!!111!!!!!

And their newest writer is... Dr. Seuss...

\sarcasm

Seriously, they'd better remember to call Mitchell either Mitchell or Cameron. Otherwise things will just get silly...

GateMan2000
August 13th, 2005, 08:50 AM
I got the assumption that the Ori created the plague that killed off the ancients from what Daniel had questioned last night. I think there are 2 possible reason why Vala, Teal'c and Daniel didn't get sick. 1 they are immune somehow, by the help of the ancients? or 2 the prior wants to make an example out of these rest of prove a point to them. What are your thoughts?

Qasim
August 13th, 2005, 08:56 AM
Why did Mitchell get sick?

Elwe Singollo
August 13th, 2005, 09:05 AM
Why did Mitchell get sick?They never really explained why, but i guess the writer(s) wanted us to assume because Teal'c had a symbiote, Vala was a host, and Daniel being ascended or something... Or thats what i think from what people have said.

I want some solid answers though. :eek:

Fsudryden
August 13th, 2005, 09:06 AM
I loved this episode. This episode seems to be made to show us what the Orii are willing to do to get the followers to follow them. My Fiance was yawning for the first 30 minutes but I was on the edge of my seat. I knew during the trial the Prior was going to come in but I never thought Daniel and the priors exchange would be so well written. Daniel realized how hard fighting the Ori's message is going to be.

Is it just me or does anyone else think that the Jaffa are going to be split in two about this and they will join the Ori's crusade? After this epidsode I will be running home after work on Friday nights and hitting the play button on my TIVO (God bless the person who created Tivo No commercials Thank you). Anyways I think we are all tired of the stopping bullets thing. They could have hit him and killed him. Then after a minute of appearing dead he could have just risenf from the dead. I think that would have had more dramatic effect.

I think this show was one of my favorite this season even though it has less action. The ramifacations for this episode will be felt for as long as the ori are around.

Elwe Singollo
August 13th, 2005, 09:07 AM
I think that Lam and Cam are living together.

OMG, Lam, Cam, and Sam!!! OT3!!!!111!!!!!

And their newest writer is... Dr. Seuss...

\sarcasm

Seriously, they'd better remember to call Mitchell either Mitchell or Cameron. Otherwise things will just get silly...Heh, i can see them using that. :rolleyes: But i guess it would be silly as well... :D

Qasim
August 13th, 2005, 09:14 AM
I thought about the symbiote thing aswell but neither have them anymore - does the immunity stay with you if so then Sam will also be immune

I thought that Daniel may be immune after interacting with Ayiana

Heaven
August 13th, 2005, 09:17 AM
I thought about the symbiote thing aswell but neither have them anymore - does the immunity stay with you if so then Sam will also be immune

I thought that Daniel may be immune after interacting with Ayiana

that was jonas not daniel, daniel was ascended at the time.

Qasim
August 13th, 2005, 09:20 AM
LOL - oops I really should see a doctor about my memory problems :)

Antiquitas
August 13th, 2005, 09:24 AM
I would say it had to do with Naquadah in the blood, but as far as I remember Carter caught the similar plague in 'Frozen'. Teal'c is the only one that makes any sense, whereas I can't think of any reason for Daniel not to get sick (unless returning to our level of existence gave him super DNA).

I have a feeling this doesn't look good for Daniel's future. The scene with the Prior getting into his face during the religious debate was a little freaky. It gave me the impression the Ori have a particular annoyance with him, though I assume that Daniel might be under the watch of the Others.

I think it's most likely the Prior is making an example out of everyone else to antagonize Daniel. Vala is just an accessory to the annoyance Daniel caused to them. The episode tortured the both of them in particular. Vala couldn't do anything to help and had to watch the people die, and Daniel was unable to stop the Prior from making the people worship the Ori.

ShadowMaat
August 13th, 2005, 09:37 AM
I think that Lam and Cam are living together.

OMG, Lam, Cam, and Sam!!! OT3!!!!111!!!!!

And their newest writer is... Dr. Seuss...

\sarcasm
CLamS? I would not watch it here or there, I would not watch it anywhere. I do not like this Sam/Lam/Cam, I do not like this shippy ham. :P

Qasim
August 13th, 2005, 09:39 AM
The scene with the Prior getting into his face during the religious debate was a little freaky. It gave me the impression the Ori have a particular annoyance with him, though I assume that Daniel might be under the watch of the Others.Well he is the main threat to their plans of converting the peoples of the MW :)

macktheknife
August 13th, 2005, 09:50 AM
Is it just me or does anyone else think that the Jaffa are going to be split in two about this and they will join the Ori's crusade?

Yeh, I thought that when that Big Jaffa dude with the fur wanted to "know more" about the ori an episode or 2 back.

I wonder exactly what "reward" nasdaq got for rubbing Vala's feet :confused:

Antiquitas
August 13th, 2005, 09:52 AM
Well he is the main threat to their plans of converting the peoples of the MW :)

Hehe. Of course. But... wouldn't it be so much easier to just wipe lil' old Daniel Jackson out? That's what I meant. Something else has to be going on there keeping him from suddenly being turned into a human torch, rained on with stones, blasted by a hurricane, and having Prometheus drop out of the sky on him.

eve11
August 13th, 2005, 09:56 AM
CLamS?

*spew*

lmao. And I do like your verse as well ;)

Dr. Weir's Hair Gel
August 13th, 2005, 10:03 AM
LOVED it. How great was it to have the whole SG-1 team (even if it was just the SG-1 Temp Team ;)) on one friggin planet for one whole episode? Had a really good "old school" stargate vibe, despite half the actors being different. This was definately my favorite ep this season, mostly because of the team aspect... but also because I really missed that deep, sexy goa'uld voice. Man, if I had a girlfriend who talked like that, I'd... ahem... sorry got a bit off track there.

My only problems were 1) the whole mysterious teal'c being there thing that has been mentioned, and 2) "suddenly mitchell is sick!". I must have gone to the bathroom or something without noticing (or blacked out from the ultimate hotness of the goa'uld voice) becuase one minute Mitchell had a little cough and the next he was flat on his back. Where was the requisite "I dont feel so good... **MITCHELL FALLS OVER**" scene?

... and now next week I get me some Carter action. Oh, Sam, how I've missed you. If only we could reinfect Sam... oooo... Sam with that beautiful, husky goa'uld voice... just thinking about it makes me want to...

ahem. Back to you, gateworld.

Iggep
August 13th, 2005, 10:39 AM
I wonder if we'll get to meet the mom, or will it be a classic case of the mom has died.

And do you think the other characters know about this?

When General Landry asked about "her" mother, she told him to ask her himself, so that would lead me to believe she's still alive. As far as the others knowing there is a family link between the two, thats open to speculation.

ChillinTheMost
August 13th, 2005, 10:39 AM
One thing I've noticed about season nine so far is that after every episode, people post their thoughts and then have questions about why? Why did this happen? Why didn't they explain this? Then an episode or two later the answer to the question is given. I know that this can sometimes be difficult when you just watch an episode or two, but if you follow the show from start to finish, I'm just really loving the unfolding of the season. I might go "Huh?" or "Hmmm!" during one episode and then one or two episodes later go, "Aha!" I can see where it would drive some people crazy, but I like it. So questions about why did Tea'lc go along, or why did Mitchell get sick, or what is the deal with the Orii, just might possibly be answered a week or two down the road. You can bet I'll be paying attention!

That's one of the great things about having internet forums! Years ago, and I am old enough to remember pre-internet, we just pondered these things in our own heads, unless you were lucky enough to know people that watched the same shows and were interested enough to talk that in-depth about them. --and when it comes to scifi, that was pretty rare.

Anyway, I don't think the questions are necessarily complaints, and they don't always drive someone crazy, they're just topic-starters. Something to discuss and something to put our heads together to solve. When we ask the questions, we are interested in the answers and comments of others. Sometimes it can be spoilers with question marks. Like, somebody guessed the right answer, and it seems plausible, but is that the way the writers meant it?

Take the tests in the first episode. I thought somebody guessed Mitchell's puzzle spot on. Then someone else came up with something that I didn't think as plausible, but put some doubt in my mind as to the first guess. It's fun. It's fun to share ideas and guesses and it's even fun when you're wrong.

Basically, it's just another way to enjoy a show for longer than the hour it is on.

Iggep
August 13th, 2005, 10:46 AM
Fascinating. So the Ori disease is the same stuff that was in the episode Frozen. So it was the Ori who gave the ancients the plague.

They didn't say that. What Dr. Lam said was that it seemed similiar, but of course she was basing that entire distinction on the timing of the disease. Totally a Scientific Wild-Ass Guess, since she couldn't detect so much as a microbe that caused the symptooms in the first place.

But lets assume that what the Prior did was in fact what happened to the Alterans/Ancients back nearly 50 million years ago. I honestly hope it is because it would further open up the back-story about the schism between the Alteran race, and why some of them left, eventually ending up in the Milky Way.

UhSir
August 13th, 2005, 11:14 AM
Teal'c being there... One episode to the next is not one week in the lives of Stargate. Sometimes it's minutes, sometimes it's several weeks or months.

Teal'c was talking different. I like the idea of him getting it from being around the Jaffa.

I like Vala much more now. Why couldn't she have been this way from the beginning? Were they afraid we'd like her too much?

I'm liking Bridges' Landry much more than I'd expected too. I'm glad because the show needs an anchor like Hammond was. This will be good.

I'm undecided about the Ori story. I think it will get boring very fast. The doom and gloom is depressing enough. I'd like to see more exploration, but that's pretty much been stopped. Everyplace they go, if they go anyplace, is just some human inhabited planet. Boring! I'm starting to feel like Urgo, "Couldn't we go someplace else... that's not here? Someplace, ya'know, that's not here?" Someplace that's not necessarily human?

Lida
August 13th, 2005, 11:31 AM
Can you say wooden? After seeing her I really, really miss Janet even more than before - talk about a gaping hole - now there's another one, or better yet, still that same one plus all of the others.

I think LD was more animated when she was on Andromeda, than she is playing Dr. Lam. As for the storyline of her being Gen. Landry's "estranged" daughter, can you say cliche? WHY would they put that in there?????? It's been done to death........(sighs).

As for the episode, over-all I was disappointed, considering who wrote it. I expected more.....all it did was set us up for why Sam will be returning next week. The Ori are a larger threat than formerly thought....well, gee, I should hope so. They were supposed to make the Goa'uld look like Teddy bears. :D

Well, Beachhead should be interesting, now that the "band" will be back together.....I wonder if they will be playing any blue's? Guess not, RDA was the guitarist......

Dr. Weir's Hair Gel
August 13th, 2005, 11:31 AM
I like Vala much more now. Why couldn't she have been this way from the beginning? Were they afraid we'd like her too much?


Its called character development. Lady has been through a lot in her short time at the SGC.

Seshat
August 13th, 2005, 11:43 AM
Well, Beachhead should be interesting, now that the "band" will be back together.....I wonder if they will be playing any blue's? Guess not, RDA was the guitarist......
Well, we already know that at least at least three of them can't carry a tune...:p

LoneStar1836
August 13th, 2005, 11:46 AM
So far, the best episode of the season, imo.

*I’m still not ready to eat my hat about Vala being nothing but a sex kitten to spice up the show, BUT the character actually had some much needed depth in this episode that made the episode worthwhile, and the highlight of the episode for me (well, other than Daniel). *gasp* Something I never thought I would say about that character. So thank you Martin Gero.

* Poor CJ. I hope he doesn’t get paid by the word. Why was he even in this ep except to have someone for BB to play cards with. Oh yeah, BB was in this episode, too. Almost forgot. Guess he will become the new whipping boy, instead of Daniel getting injured/sick all the time. Good stuff from Daniel in this episode. Back to the Daniel I love, rather than the gun toting, wise cracking, trying to fill the Jack void-Daniel of last season. As much as I like Daniel, I’m hoping that the focus on characters will balance out. I want some good stuff for BB damn it. :D He is the whole reason I was willing to give this season a chance, though the improvement in Daniel has given me hope as well.

* I am absolutely not liking Dr. Lam. I think it’s more the actress than the character, though I find the whole thing with her being Landry’s daughter too contrived.

* These so-called new and improved enemies might have potential. I’m not that crazy with all the “Hallowed are the Ori”, worship us or die dialogue, etc. but the writers have peaked my interest in how they plan to combat/defeat these baddies. Though I did find the philosophical stuff in this episode interesting.

Good episode. For once I have a harder time saying which episode of Stargate I liked more because I wasn’t that impressed with SGA’s story this week.

joasia
August 13th, 2005, 12:03 PM
The Ori are a larger threat than formerly thought....well, gee, I should hope so. They were supposed to make the Goa'uld look like Teddy bears. :DAnd they certainly do. I wonder about a few things: Did SGC accepted the cut budget or did they go for the "watchdog" deal? If they chose the second option - did the watchdog arrive or do we still waiting for him/her to appear? After seeing what a Prior is capable of (why do I suddenly hear O'Neill's voice? :rolleyes: ) will they give SGC some money back?

MrBojangles
August 13th, 2005, 12:05 PM
I have a feeling this doesn't look good for Daniel's future. The scene with the Prior getting into his face during the religious debate was a little freaky. It gave me the impression the Ori have a particular annoyance with him, though I assume that Daniel might be under the watch of the Others.

Don't worry about Daniel. He's amazingly hard to kill. How many times has he died, asceneded, brought back to life? Like 30? :p

Giantevilhead
August 13th, 2005, 12:48 PM
Teal'c has the tritonin which boosts his immune system as if he still had a symbiote, Vala had a Goa'uld in her before so she probably retain at least some of the powers of the Goa'uld, she could use the healing device, and Daniel was cured by Ayiana so he probably developed immunity to the disease either that or it had something to do with the fact that he has ascended before.

shockwave
August 13th, 2005, 12:56 PM
Teal'c has the tritonin which boosts his immune system as if he still had a symbiote, Vala had a Goa'uld in her before so she probably retain at least some of the powers of the Goa'uld, she could use the healing device, and Daniel was cured by Ayiana so he probably developed immunity to the disease either that or it had something to do with the fact that he has ascended before.
looks like you may join qasimjavid on a doctor visit =p

GateAngel
August 13th, 2005, 01:02 PM
GateAngel's Ramble - The Powers that Be: There was something missing..and it was Jack
There was something missing in this episode and definitely something that put me off.

What was missing was Jack O'Neill.

Daniel and Vala were incredible once more, don't get me wrong.

What I liked most is the things we learned in Vala's backstory and what we and Daniel got to see of the woman under the flippant mercenary she hides behind.

Also when Vala came out dressed and acting like Quetish (sp), my first thought was that if we had more Goa'uld with her presence, they might have been more of them that were interesting and formidable to go up against. I would have loved to have seen a showdown between Quetish and say Nirrti.

It was in Daniel's scenes and his interaction with the Prior that, for the first time in season 9, I missed Jack's presence. Yet I have to clarify that by saying it was the presence of the Jack O'Neill in say Red Sky. The Jack O'Neill that took a pragmatic approach that was a counterbalance to Daniel's more esoteric approach to a situation like this.

There was no one in this situation to give Daniel the support and grounding he needed. There was no Ying to balance out his Yang. Daniel desperately needed someone like Jack in this episode. The situation needed someone like Jack (not dumb silly Jack..but the one we had before).

I have to say in all honesty, that Mitchell was a nonentity to me in this episode. I don't know what the plan was for bringing Ben Browder in for this role or what the character was suppose to be in terms of being an audience draw or a leader of SG1, but he was just so much white noise to me in this episode.

Mitchell faded so completely into the background to me that I didn't even notice he was gone when they started showing scenes of just Daniel, Vala and Teal'c. It didn't even register with me that he was the one lying on the cot dying even when they showed him. When Lam said she had to get back to Col. Mitchell, I thought he was just helping her with her medical team. It wasn't until the end when the Prior did the healing thing and Lam was with him that I realized it was Mitchell.

So because of this I felt no connection to him and his fate, I was unconcerned about the character. Because I didn't even realise he was missing from the scenes, the impact of Mitchell in jeopardy was totally lost on me. I really wasn't worried about him and really didn't miss him in the scenes he wasn't in.

But for the first time, I missed Jack's presence and the dynamic of friendship he once had with Daniel a heckuva a lot.

Daniel really was in over his head and he needed Jack to help him. No wonder Daniel admitted to Jack that he was afraid. He has good reason to be.

On another note, this episode bothered me for some reason. Left me feeling vaguely uneasy with it. Just not sure why yet

EventHorizon
August 13th, 2005, 01:03 PM
... is simple. If you listen to Daniel in the episode, he gives the reason. If you kill the opposition in a religious war before you've converted eveyone, you have a martyr. A martyr is much stronger than an enemy.

The Ori may know Daniel has already ascended.... he knows how to do it. How would it look if the Prior killed Daniel and he just ascended after turning his back to Origin.... it would kind of prove the Priors wrong, now, wouldn't it? ;-)

Zoder
August 13th, 2005, 01:08 PM
The way I see it, Vala and Daniel were intentionally spared from the virus so that the could be used by the Ori in convincing the villagers to convert.

They knew that Vala would use the Goa'uld healing device to try and heal the sick. By seeing Vala, their "former god", fail and the Prior successfully heal them, it made them believe that the Ori are the real deal.

I think Daniel was spared for two reasons. First, he was the anti-Ori voice to the villagers. Daniel spent his time at the trial telling the villagers why the Ori shouldn't be worshipped. That his way was the better way. But when the plague hit, he was powerless to help them. All Daniel had were his words while the Prior offered them "salvation". From the villagers point of view, what good were his ideals about freedom, if everyone was dead. Also, Daniel has been the Ori's main adversary so far. By letting him witness what occurred there, it truly let's him see what they're up against. Also, maybe they are hoping that his report will start to convince a few people back on Earth.

As for Teal'c, he was immune in Frozen, so we have to assume the same immunity applies here. Especially if it's the same disease, as Daniel theorized.

Ugly Pig
August 13th, 2005, 01:12 PM
Heeeeeeeeeeere's


PIGGY'S USELESS OPINION
of 'The Powers That Be'

Interesting episode. At first, it seemed like it would be a repeat of 'Cor-ai', and it was... for about five minutes. Then the frickin' Prior showed up and everything went all creepy.

TPTB obviously wanted to make our new enemy the most dangerous one yet, and they have certainly succeeded in doing that. The Ori appear to be all-powerful, unstoppable with no appearant weakness. The Goa'uld? The Replicators? The Wraith? They all seem pathetically trivial when compared to the Ori, who may just be the most dangerous villains I have ever seen in fiction. If they were any worse, they'd have to be the devil himself.

Random Observations!
- It's nice to have Teal'c back, but... Why exactly is he back??
- The Prior was the same guy who had Vala burned, right?
- On-screen confirmation that Lam is Landry's daugther. Now I'm wondering why she's acting so cold towards him.
- The Goa'uld healing device has been brought back from the abyss of the forgotten Stargate things. Maybe someone will remember the sarcophagus next?
- Soooo... the Ori's tactics are to give people the Ancient plague, and then to cure them when they pledge their belief?
- Daniel brought up an interesting point: Just why do the Ori demand worship? Why is it so important? Why would they even care? I get the feeling we've only scratched the surface on this whole Origin deal.

This was a good episode, and one where our heroes actually didn't succeed in what they set out to do. In fact, it ended up with more or less the worst case scenario... with chilling implications for the future of the Stargate universe. Well, I'm sold! :)

creed462
August 13th, 2005, 01:31 PM
Daniel can't asend w/out help. But to kill Daniel would make him a martyr as well so it's a stand off

Ugly Pig
August 13th, 2005, 01:44 PM
I think Lexa D. is still acting like her Andromeda persona, she is still acting like a robot! Although her little spit spat with her daddy dearest made her have a little life, well sort of...No offense, but I think your mind is playing tricks on you... I have never seen Andromeda, and she comes across as completely natural to me.
I think it was a good episode for fifty minutes, then they had a big missed opportunity at the end. They should have used it as an opportunity to show that the Ori can be fought and beaten, just like it was obvious the gu'ald were at the beginning.That's exactly what they shouldn't do. Not yet. They've just been introduced, it's way to early for the good guys to get the upper hand now. For them to be at all believeable as a threat, they need to be unbeatable, at least for a while.
What a cliched ending - in a span of 1 minute all is healed and everyone is up and walking . . . give me a break. Heal them all 2 minutes earlier and then have the Ori wreck a different kind of havoc to prove they're deadly mindset and maybe, just maybe and a very BIG maybe it is, I would buy this schtick.Sounds to me like you missed the point, bigtime. The Ori are not out to kill people - but to turn them into worshippers. This is just the way they do it - have the people contract a mysterious disease, then cure them of it - voila! Instant followers. That was the whole point! Killing them afterwards would serve no purpose, and make no sense whatsoever.
I really liked this episode. I mean the Ori can kill on whim and raise the dead? It has me wondering how they are ever going to defeat them.Bingo!
If the Ori created the plague, where do the Wraith fit in?I don't think they do. IIRC, there's never been any indication that the Wraith had anything to do with The Plague...
And if it IS the Ori, does this mean that the plague sample the Atlantis team found in Hot Zone is from the Ori?Nah... Remember, that was a nano virus... and IIRC, one that didn't affect the Ancients. Hence, it was not The Plague. :)

LMichelle
August 13th, 2005, 01:49 PM
Oh joy, the Ori again. I'm already suffering from theological indigestion. At least we didn't have to hear "hallowed are the Ori" over and over again. Hey, it's the small things I'm thankful for. ;)

I was surprised that Vala didn't have the matching shoes for her Goa'uld getup. She had to wear the boots. LOL!

How come they never go to a planet where the inhabitants have fitted clothing? Everyone seems to be in rags.

Another reckon from Cameron. Pretty soon he's going to say he's fixin' to go through the Gate. :p

I loved the vulnerability from Vala. I knew there was more to her. I wish TPTB would fill us in more on her backstory. I think we would have gotten some comforting from Daniel had they not been interrupted. *shakes fist*
But he did stay with her overnight. Awww. . .

Lisa Michelle :)

acdj31
August 13th, 2005, 01:50 PM
Good ep better than last week's. Good points: Vala caring for someone else. Only one or two "sexy" comments form her. Dr Lam and Landry scenes. Daniel being Daniel in this ep. :) :)
Bad points: No reason for Teal'c being there. Mitchell being sick. Our heroes not winning. :( :(

Daniel can be my lawyer any day. The scene with Daniel and the Prior arguing was great. Daniel on the side on humanity and probably the Ancients; the Prior on the side of the Orior both equality agrued. So much so that the Prior had to up the ante by release the viruse.
I think the Orior/Prior have a interest in Daniel because they know he was ascended.

Cann't wait to see how Carter doing to react to Vala next week. :rolleyes: :eek:

Kalliope
August 13th, 2005, 01:55 PM
About healing devices... watching TPTB I was wondering what happened to that ring Vala used to have back in PU she healed Daniel's arm with.

morjana
August 13th, 2005, 01:58 PM
It's not that I can't believe that the SGC allowed Vala through the Stargate again...it's that they allowed Vala though the Stargate again!

And...one would think that after eight years with the SGC, Daniel Jackson, would realize that you can NOT expect those bent on world -- uh, no galactic-- no wait, universal domination! -- to behave with any reasoning based on logic or have any thought for the common good other than their own viewpoint?

Didn't Daniel learn ANYTHING from his false belief that he could protect Abydos from Anubis?

Oh, wait, apparently not, because we just the same behavior in "The Powers That Be."

Morjana

Shipperahoy
August 13th, 2005, 02:11 PM
I know what you mean. It really didn't make any kind of logical sense that they would be willing to just go to a planet because Vala says that the people there trust her without asking for any kind of back story. It's pretty much established that Vala cannot tell any kind of full truth so it stands to reason that there must be something else going on there but, oh no, they just go blithely strolling through the gate to where she says to go because her word has been so trustworthy so far. :rolleyes:

morjana
August 13th, 2005, 02:55 PM
Maybe, but then why let Mitchell get sick? What's the reasoning behind it?

I could see it as Daniel having been ascended, Vala having been a Goa'uld and Teal'c having had a symbiote, but some actual info would be nice.

But ShadowMaat, then we wouldn't have anything to discuss, if all the plot elements were explained in a paint-by-numbers fashion on the screen!

Somewhat OT, Director Nicholas Meyer remarked in his audio commentary for Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan, that it was a good director who left bread crumbs for the plot trail, and didn't pave a highway for the viewer. Not a direct quote, as I'm too darn lazy to go put the DVD in the DVD machine, and listen until I hear that quote again, but that was general gist of what he said.

Morjana

KatG
August 13th, 2005, 03:06 PM
Posting before I read everyone else's comments.

I quite liked this one. Finally we see some depth to Vala's character. Yes, she started out to take advantage of the inhabitants of the planet, but in the end she showed that she truly did care about them.

So, finally we get the info on Landry/Lam being father/daughter. Still not sure how they're going to justify that one.

And Mitchell's "Tingly" comment, along with the look between him and Lam, along with his "let's forget I said that" or something like that, along with the elevator scene last week, definitely leads me to believe that Mitchell/Lam either have had a relationship in the past or have one now. Should be interesting.

Loved the Ori storyline. I really do think these guys are going to be a difficult villain to beat. After all, how do you compete with miracles?

greytop
August 13th, 2005, 03:12 PM
and Daniel was cured by Ayiana so he probably developed immunity to the disease either that or it had something to do with the fact that he has ascended before.Daniel had already ascended when Ayiana was found, so it probably had to with that.


What card game was Teal's and Mitchell playing?

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
August 13th, 2005, 03:15 PM
Good episode. The best part of the whole episode was when Vala was attempting to escape form the bars. In my opinion, I could probably escape because I'm skinny.

the fifth man
August 13th, 2005, 03:19 PM
Watched the episode again today, and I liked it even more. Sg-1 is really in for a tough fight with these Ori. They are shaping up to be one difficult adversary. Can't wait to see how things continue this coming Friday.

ShadowMaat
August 13th, 2005, 03:22 PM
But ShadowMaat, then we wouldn't have anything to discuss, if all the plot elements were explained in a paint-by-numbers fashion on the screen!
I'm not necessarily asking for a whole-hog answer, but in order to leave a trail of breadcrumbs there has to be some actual bread involved. ;)

Plus, I'm not gonna be watching the rest of the season (except maybe if Baal's on) so I demand more complete information. :P

Antiquitas
August 13th, 2005, 03:32 PM
Don't worry about Daniel. He's amazingly hard to kill. How many times has he died, asceneded, brought back to life? Like 30? :p

True, true. But that doesn't mean he can't suffer beforehand. *Winces remembering the Replicarter scene* His life insurance must cost through the roof by now.


... is simple. If you listen to Daniel in the episode, he gives the reason. If you kill the opposition in a religious war before you've converted eveyone, you have a martyr. A martyr is much stronger than an enemy.

The Ori may know Daniel has already ascended.... he knows how to do it. How would it look if the Prior killed Daniel and he just ascended after turning his back to Origin.... it would kind of prove the Priors wrong, now, wouldn't it? ;-)

I don't know. It would look convincing if suddenly Daniel was deep fried where he was standing. While a Martyr is stronger, you have to keep in mind that the Prior had the ability to kill everyone in the village. The people would end up bowing to him anyway, I think. They didn't have a lot of choice. Convert or die.

If Daniel ascended again, he wouldn't be able to do anything to the Prior or use his powers to demonstrate that the Ori are just ascended beings. It would probably cross the line and tick off the Others.


Also, maybe they are hoping that his report will start to convince a few people back on Earth.

That was the scene that was creepy. "Tell everyone what you have witnessed here today". I'm not sure what it means for Daniel yet. I know it's going to lead to some good storylines with him later in the Season, though. ^_^

It's turned into my favorite episode of the season thus far, just because of all the little twists put into it.

binkpmmc
August 13th, 2005, 03:47 PM
Sounds to me like you missed the point, bigtime. The Ori are not out to kill people - but to turn them into worshippers. This is just the way they do it - have the people contract a mysterious disease, then cure them of it - voila! Instant followers. That was the whole point! Killing them afterwards would serve no purpose, and make no sense whatsoever.

Nope - I did not miss the point - just don't care. To me the Ori seem an amalgamation of bad things that previous enemies had going for them, to me, IMO, they are a cliche. and they look so much like someone I've seen before that every time I see an Ori I see something totally not Stargate - I wish their new big bad enemy coud have been more original in so many ways.

warmbeachbrat
August 13th, 2005, 03:53 PM
And Mitchell's "Tingly" comment, along with the look between him and Lam, along with his "let's forget I said that" or something like that, along with the elevator scene last week, definitely leads me to believe that Mitchell/Lam either have had a relationship in the past or have one now. Should be interesting.

Loved the Ori storyline. I really do think these guys are going to be a difficult villain to beat. After all, how do you compete with miracles?

Hmmm--thanks for pointing out the "tingly" comment. I'm remembering that that's what Vala said when she was brought back in Avalon 2. I wonder if there is some significance to it. How likely is it that Vala and Mitchell would use the same word to describe their experience?

Just thinking out loud....

joasia
August 13th, 2005, 04:03 PM
Don't worry about Daniel. He's amazingly hard to kill. How many times has he died, asceneded, brought back to life? Like 30? :pPeople from the StargateWiki are counting and they have come with 5 deaths and 2 near-deaths (see this page (http://wiki.stargate-sg1-solutions.com/index.php/Daniel_Jackson:_Injuries_Received#The_Many_Deaths_Of_Daniel) for the details)

morjana
August 13th, 2005, 04:09 PM
In the Discworld books, the gods need people to believe in them or they cease to exist. Maybe the Ori are in a similar bind.

Sort of like Tinkerbelle in Peter Pan.

Morjana

lily
August 13th, 2005, 04:22 PM
I haven't read other people's comments yet. I just typed mine and I'm posting them in the groups and forums where I don't just lurk :) Maybe I have something to add after reading others' opinions.

------------
Soooooo, Cameron likes red gello? Whaaahahahahahaha! :D :D Loved that first scene between him and Vala

I liked all the main and regular characters in this epi.

- the scenes with Dr. Lam and Gen. Landry were great. I was wondering when we were to find out about them being father and daughter (I mean, I already knew because of the on-line spoilers, but I was wondering when we were going to hear it in an episode). I think both actors are great in their roles, and I'm looking forward to see more of these characters in the future

- Daniel and Vala banter was great as usual

- Daniel was great, especially in the scene with the Prior (the first one)

- Vala as a Goa'uld was a lot of fun. I could almost picture the glowing eyes :D

- great development of Vala's character through out the whole episode. Excellent. We saw her in a wonderful range of attitudes. I loved especially when she admits that she was responsible for all the stuff those people were going through. And when she had her eyes in tears when the first guy died. That scene with her and Daniel was great.

- great to see more Mitchell. We haven't found anything really new (except he likes red gello :D ), but the scenes with him were very nice. From what we know from spoilers for later episodes, we'll get to know more of him. I don't remember in which episode, I read general spoilers -not the ones that give away the end, mind you -, I read some general spoilers like the ones at Gateworld, and usually only once when they're published, because I can't help it :) But by the time the actual episode airs, I already forgot what I read several weeks before, so it's all fresh for me :)

- great to see the team interaction. Now with Sam coming back next Friday, we'll have SG-1 back together. Woohoo!

- the virus connection with Frozen was really interesting. Hope we find more about this connection in the future

So, in short, an excellent episode!

ShadowMaat
August 13th, 2005, 04:23 PM
Sort of like Tinkerbelle in Peter Pan.
Yes, except that if you called any of Discworld's gods "fairies", there wouldn't be enough left of you for a decent burial. ;)

But then, if the Ori are Ancients, maybe Tinkerbelle is closer to the mark. She glowed, too, didn't she? :D

KatG
August 13th, 2005, 04:50 PM
Hmmm--thanks for pointing out the "tingly" comment. I'm remembering that that's what Vala said when she was brought back in Avalon 2. I wonder if there is some significance to it. How likely is it that Vala and Mitchell would use the same word to describe their experience?

Just thinking out loud....

That's right. She did say that didn't she. I had forgotten. Very interesting.

Avatar28
August 13th, 2005, 04:58 PM
Maybe the tingly is a side effect of the Ori healing tech (I'm going on the assumption that it IS tech based at this point). Did anyone report anything similar from Tel'chak's fountain of youth device back in season 7? I don't think they did but I'm not certain. Or from Ayiana's healing in Frozen?

morjana
August 13th, 2005, 05:06 PM
What card game was Teal's and Mitchell playing?

Go Fish?

Morjana

jree
August 13th, 2005, 05:11 PM
Maybe the prior technology is based upon advanced nano-technology. The nano-tech in HOT ZONE was deactivated by an EM pulse. That big flash by the Ori staff could have been an EM pulse. The two technologies might be mutually exclusive and Ori technology is obviously more advanced than the technology in HOT ZONE, imo. Sam eventually will figure it out and counteract it and then if these are good villains the Ori will adapt their tactics. There is a lot of exposition in these first five episodes, now I expect the action to pick up next week. I need some space battles please. Oh well, I'm patient I can wait.

jree
August 13th, 2005, 05:16 PM
What card game was Teal's and Mitchell playing?


I think it is called WAR.

Kalinda
August 13th, 2005, 05:25 PM
Cool! That was quite good, all in all :)

It was good to see some more development for Vala, I've been wanting an expansion of her backstory for a while. I'm also glad she showed such genuine concern for the people and was able to forget about her treasures.

I loved the verbal sparring between Daniel and the Prior, their argument was quite good and the Prior did come off as quite convincing while Daniel seemed to be on the losing end. Daniel is increasingly beginning to feel like a central-figure this season and I think that's great; I like Mitchell lots and lots but I'm glad they didn't shove him into the 'main character' chair right away. I've a feeling that chair will shift around a bunch through the season and that's good :)

As well, I'm so glad Daniel raises the question of why the Ori are doing what they're doing. I've thought about it and could only come up with that they think because they're Ascended people should worship them, but I'm so glad there appears to be more to it then that. I hope that soon enough this question is answered for us.

The revelation that the Ori were responsable for the plague that killed the Ancients is an interesting one, though, sadly, no surprise for me as I came across an unmarked spoiler about it on this very forum a few months ago :( Either way, the idea is pretty cool and, since the palgue is uncurable (or seems so right now), makes one wonder how the Tau'ri are going to get out of this one.

Speaking of a sense of hopelessness, boy oh boy did my jaw drop when Vala shot the Prior and the bullets stopped before they hit him :eek: That's also another favourite part of the episode for me, plus what followed. The ending left me with a "holy crap, what ARE we gonna do?!" feeling.

My only beef with The Powers That Be is how Mitchell got sick. It seemed rather pointless, other then to give us more peril and have us worry for him. If having us worry for him is an attempt to make us like him more, I don't think it'll really work. I already like Mitchell lots and lots and having him be heroic and unqiue and actually DOING things is a better way to make us like him then infecting him with the plague. Also on that note, the Mitchell-being-sick thing became even worse when the only obvious way to cure him was by Prior healing and that only came to me when the Prior healed everyone else. Why not just let Mitchell die? Like.. maybe as an example to the Earth people? He isn't a believer, right? And why was he the ONLY member of the Earth visitors to become ill? I'm glad Teal'c asked the question of why they weren't getting sick and I would've been happier with that angle had Mitchell not been sick at all.

Obviously, they CANT let Mitchell die because he is a main character and important and whatnot, but there should be better reasons then that. The only thing I can come up with is that the healing of many at once can't be that selective. Or perhaps the Prior was attempting to use Mitchell as an example to Daniel and the others. But I think he already used the village as an example of the Ori's power and it was a good example, too.

So apart from that critism, I really like this episode, much better then last week. And Beachhead is next week! W00t!

9/10. GW Poll Rating: Outstanding.

AGateFan
August 13th, 2005, 05:37 PM
Actually once Mitchell fell ill I lost the since of peril since I knew they werent going to let him die.

Until that point I thought this was going to be like that B5 ep where every member of a specific race died because of a plague and due to their religious beliefs in regards to the plague.

I thought the Ori were going to kill everyone on the planet as punishment to the Daniel, Vala, Mitchell and Tea'lc (who they were going to let live as witnesses). I got that sinking feeling when the first guy to get sick was the guy that had already been "converted". But after Mitchell fell ill I knew the Prior was going to come in and "save the day" and thus everyone would be alive and well and the people of the planet would be converted.

lily
August 13th, 2005, 05:38 PM
To me the Ori seem an amalgamation of bad things that previous enemies had going for them, to me, IMO, they are a cliche. and they look so much like someone I've seen before that every time I see an Ori I see something totally not Stargate - I wish their new big bad enemy coud have been more original in so many ways.

Well, I like the Ori arc very much so far. I find them scary.
I didn't find the Goa'uld very scary, though... Don't get me wrong. I love the Goa'uld arc, and I loved the way it fits the Egyptian/etc mythology, but I never found them scary. I found the Goa'uld arc very interesting, but after 8 years of Goa'ulds, I think it was nice timing to change the focus to other baddies. I want to see Goa'ulds from time to time (and judging from what I've read from spoilers, we'll see some), but I think it was time to introduce new bad guys.

As for cliche... well, the Goa'ulds were pretty cliche, so... I think Jack has defined them pretty well in the past. Overdressed, over-the-top, cliche guys. That defines the Goa'uld. :D

So you think the Ori are cliche? ... so were the Goa'uld :D

majorsal
August 13th, 2005, 05:44 PM
It was yet another Daniel and Vala heavy episode which I don't mind per se but every episode this season has been Daniel and Vala heavy. I do realize that they have Claudia Black for a limited amount of time and have to make good use of that time but I do think that it's negatively affecting Ben Browder's ability to convery any personal aspect of Mitchell that may get the audience to connect with that character. I don't dislike Mitchell and I certainly don't think that Ben Browder is doing anything wrong, he's doing the best with what he's been given but I haven't gotten any real sense of the character yet and I would think that, given the fact that he's the new main character, that that would be a top priority.



yes, i feel worn down by this daniel-vala overabundance. :S five episodes, in. a. row. i'm not only ready for sam to return, i'm ready for an equal distribution of character scenes. please.


sally :)

EventHorizon
August 13th, 2005, 06:08 PM
Okay, I don't know of any other way to voice my opinion here, so I'll let it fly. I may be speaking for myself, and if I am, so be it, but...

It is quite annoying when you combine "like" threads. Yes we all know that somebody already started a thread about TPTB. Good for them. I know there are some that get their panties in a knot when this happens because they want to be the "official thread starter" on a given topic.

But, when you combine threads, you create a whole new problem; we now have 10 different topics in one thread:
-Why spare Daniel?
-I like Vala
-Why is Mitchell sick?
-The Ori suck
-What game are Teal'c and Mitchell playing?
-Why do they Ori need worshippers
-Lam/Landry Related
-Lam/Mitchell relationship in past?
-What kind of virus is it?
-Was the Prior the one from the Alteran village?
-And probably many more stuck in those 8 pages.....


I know you're trying to "clean up the board" so it is easier to find topics, but you're being a bit overzealous about it. This is the most "over-moderated" board I have ever been on. You combine too many topics that are NOT THE SAME. It is possible to have multiple DIFFERENT discussions about one topic. The thread I was in, for example, was discussing why SG-1 was spared. Yes, it was about TPTB, but that doesn't mean it should all be one thread. Along that line, shouldn't their just be one giant Stargate thread? I mean, that's all we're talking about, right?

Sorry for the rant, it just gets annoying trying to find a discussion you were having in a nice, small 2 page thread that has now been merged with four completely different threads.

Anyone else agree?

ShadowMaat
August 13th, 2005, 06:19 PM
Anyone else agree?
No.

Anyway, glad to see that other than a few quibbles, TPTB is being well-received. Personally, though, I'd rather Martin stuck to Atlantis. He's given more room to play over there. ;)

tsaxlady
August 13th, 2005, 06:21 PM
All in all this was the best episode so far this season. Yes I'm tired of Daniel and Vala being the only ones with a major role in each episode and I'm ready to see more of Mitchell & Teal'c - oh yeah and Sam returns next week! However it was really nice to see more character development of Vala this week. Last week in "The Ties That Bind" I was ready to turn it off half way through I was so tired of Daniel and Vala. This week felt more like the SG-1 I have grown to love over the last 8 years. Yes there are some unanswered questions about this episode but I'm okay with that as long as we get some answers as the season goes on. This episode has helped me get excited about this season again and I'm looking forward to next week. :D

QuiGonJohn
August 13th, 2005, 06:57 PM
Also I am getting a real sense they have added so much more meaning to Daniel having ascended and now being back in mortal form. A real purpose, to fight the Ori with his knowledge of ascension and ascended beings. Great episode.

Maxum
August 13th, 2005, 07:15 PM
I sure hope TPTB tie in Danie's ascension to this year's show. It would be stupid not to. Frankly, I never understood how Daniel could be ascended, then return from ascension, and not be different somehow. I mean no memory, no special abilities, nothing. Since the Ancients are considered the "gate builders," and everyone holds them in such high esteem, it only made sense that people should be more than curious about one of their own becoming an Ancient and then returning, but last year, it was almost forgotten (at least until the Replicator Carter episode, when she was smart enough to grab Daniel because she thought he might have knowledge about the Ancients - and he did.)

I posted earlier that I think there is a genuine animosity between Daniel and the Ori. They seem to seek him out specifically when they strike. The most telling scene was the very end. The final minutes of frame, when after raising and curing the ill, the Prior walks directly towards Daniel - no one else. He walks up to him, they lock eyes, and the Prior smiles as he instructs Daniel to "tell the others what you have seen." It's one of those sinister, evil smiles. The Prior was genuinely pleased to address Daniel specifically. A personal torture. I hope TBTB give Daniel an episode at some point in the season where he can kick some Prior you-know-what.

I always felt that Daniel never gets any satisfaction in his personal battles. Never got to kill Apophis who took his wife and ultimately got her killed; never got to take out Anubis even when Daniel was ready, willing, and able. Oma stopped him. Now it's the Ori. Daniel deserves his moment. I hope he gets it.

TheCorpulent1
August 13th, 2005, 07:19 PM
Late with my opinions on the episode, but whatever. I really liked this ep. The Lamdry drama was a nice subplot, the opening teaser scene really felt like old-school Stargate (despite the fact that it only featured two of this season's new characters), and the A-story about the Ori's influence was great. I especially liked the fact that the heroes lost this round. It's never a good sign for the good guys to start kicking the bad guys' asses right out of the gate, after all. Hopefully we'll get more episodes like this over the rest of the season and fewer purely laugh-driven eps like "The Ties That Bind."

My two complaints for this episode are:
1) Teal'c with a P90. Staff and Zat, dude. Come on.
2) Mitchell's getting sick was totally glossed over initially. I didn't even realize it was Mitchell lying there until the Prior healed everyone and he sat up. I thought it would be the leader of the village while Lam was talking and then, when it panned down to show him, I thought, "Oh, not the leader, just some random red-shirt who died from the disease." No clue it was Mitchell.

I did enjoy Daniel's conspicuous lack of a P90, however. I hate seeing Daniel walk around with the heavy armaments. He's a diplomat and explorer; give him the bare minimum for self-defense and send him on his way.

ShadowMaat
August 13th, 2005, 07:20 PM
The most telling scene was the very end. The final minutes of frame, when after raising and curing the ill, the Prior walks directly towards Daniel - no one else. He walks up to him, they lock eyes, and the Prior smiles as he instructs Daniel to "tell the others what you have seen."
How much you want to bet he was referring to the Ancients? *arches eyebrow*

Osiris-RA
August 13th, 2005, 07:41 PM
what was Vala's symbiote name again? O-something?

TheCorpulent1
August 13th, 2005, 07:57 PM
what was Vala's symbiote name again? O-something?
Qetesh

lily
August 13th, 2005, 08:03 PM
<snip>It is quite annoying when you combine "like" threads.
<snip>
Anyone else agree?

Not me :)
I would agree with you if we didn't have an especific thread for every episode. But since we do have an especific thread per episode, I think any kind of post that's related to a particular episode has to go to the same thread (the one corresponding to that episode). And in fact I think this is great, so we can find all people's comments about a certain epi in just one thread, instead of having to browse through lots of them. Just MHO, of course :D

Nikkirose
August 13th, 2005, 08:08 PM
Yes yes, its me again.. I know I said only Origin screamed for my opinion, but... well so was TPTB (sort of)..

DISLIKES:

-I just gotta say it.. THE PRIORS ARE BORING!!!!!!!!!!! The writers/producers and such made this huge deal that the "big bad" for this season was gonna be worse then the gouald by far. We've barely seen the Ori, all they are is "energy". *YAWN* All they do is talk and yack and go on and on and on about how their way is the only way. And a plague? THATS THE BEST THEY COULD DO?? C'mon!! Show some awesome ass kicking skills or some out of no where army that comes to destroy all those that dont believe. But instead all they do is bring on a plague, and the prior isnt even around to show the spread or on bringing of it. SNORE FEST!!! I for one watch Stargate (SG1 and Atlantis) for the action, team interaction, and ass kicking of the bad guys. NOT ENDLESS TALKING!! AAAAAAAAARGGHH! Ok now I'm done with that.

-Is CJ even getting paid this season? He barely has but a few lines in the episodes. I feel bad for the actor. He comes back for another season and what happens, Teal'c suddenly looses his voice? Did they decide to make him mute? Thinking maybe if he just stands there and looks Teal'cish he'll be just as good as if he had lines?? I dont get it!! Why wont they show case CJ's acting skills? We all know he can act. And we all like the Teal'c character. Why change that aspect now? I feel bad for CJ and really hope that things will change for him. He's not being used as well as he could be!! WE'RE HERE FOR YOU!!

-The new doctor. Okay I dont care enough about the character to try and catch or even remember her name. Shes BORING! Give her more life! Not just some drone that walks around spitting out "they are ill, now they are better" And the arguing with Landry.. :p GET OVER IT!!! She makes me wish even more Dr. Frasier was back!!

LIKES:

-LOVED the interaction with Vala and Daniel again this week. The scene with Daniel telling her to turn off the fake goauld voice. And when she revealed that there actually was a hidden way out of that room she was in earlier and Daniel hit the cell.. Just too funny!

-I also love that she doesnt just pester Daniel, that she gets on Cameron's nerves as well.

-Next weeks episode... SAM!!!!!!!!! FINALLY!!!!

TheCorpulent1
August 13th, 2005, 08:18 PM
I suppose it all depends on what you're looking for in an episode. I find the ability to summon a plague on a moment's notice a hell of a lot scarier than someone in a Halloween costume with a few technological trinkets.

I think the Priors are going to get a lot more badass, too. They're starting off very unflappable because they know that the SGC has no defense against them and they know that the hapless, primitive cultures of the MW will buy into their rap very easily. Once the Tau'ri start finding effective ways to combat them, I think the Priors will stop being so serene and start trying to kill SG-1 on sight.

I will agree that Teal'c definitely needs to find something to do. Even if it's just to rile Mitchell up a bit now and then, it'd be nice to see him DO something.

Maxum
August 13th, 2005, 08:54 PM
How much you want to bet he was referring to the Ancients? *arches eyebrow*


You know I did think about that. That's part of what I find interesting in the animosity between Daniel and the Ori. Are they angry at him for being one of those "evil ascended" beings who refuse to act like Gods or are they angry that he's fighting them? I really hope TPTB flesh this out; I think it would be interesting to see where all this is going.

binkpmmc
August 13th, 2005, 09:52 PM
So you think the Ori are cliche? ... so were the Goa'uld :D

At least at the time the Goa'ould were original . . . . :D

Erik Bloodaxe
August 13th, 2005, 10:28 PM
It's not that I can't believe that the SGC allowed Vala through the Stargate again...it's that they allowed Vala though the Stargate again!

It's not that I can't believe someone forgot that Daniel and Vala are still bound together again, it's... :rolleyes:


And...one would think that after eight years with the SGC, Daniel Jackson, would realize that you can NOT expect those bent on world -- uh, no galactic-- no wait, universal domination! -- to behave with any reasoning based on logic or have any thought for the common good other than their own viewpoint?

He had a good point. Why should ascended beings care about the mortal realm at all? The goa'uld lived lives of luxury and had the best armies and labor from their deception, so clearly there was some form of "logic" that they subscribed to. ;) And at what point was he expecting them to have any regard for the "common good"? :P


Didn't Daniel learn ANYTHING from his false belief that he could protect Abydos from Anubis?

Be quite the trick for him to have learned anything from that, considering that he FORGOT all those memories. ;)

-Bloodaxe

Erik Bloodaxe
August 13th, 2005, 10:40 PM
I know what you mean. It really didn't make any kind of logical sense that they would be willing to just go to a planet because Vala says that the people there trust her without asking for any kind of back story. It's pretty much established that Vala cannot tell any kind of full truth so it stands to reason that there must be something else going on there but, oh no, they just go blithely strolling through the gate to where she says to go because her word has been so trustworthy so far. :rolleyes:

The reason they went is pretty much revealed in Mitchell's immediate reply; that if these people trusted her, they were in the most danger of being swayed by the Ori. ;)

-Bloodaxe

Erik Bloodaxe
August 13th, 2005, 10:52 PM
What's w/ all the complaints of "why didn't the rest of SG-1 get the disease" anyway? Considering that there were a number of other villagers walking around perfectly healthy before the healing trick (in the background in that scene where the Prior returns) and that not even all Ancients were afflicted by it (those who left for Atlantis were just fine), why can't it simply be a disease that albeit much more viscious than any other one, is still one in which someone can be immune to? ;) Heck, it wasn't even a contagious one, so the Ori probably infected them randomly, w/o really the need to infect all to get their point across. :)

-Bloodaxe

Erik Bloodaxe
August 13th, 2005, 11:20 PM
TPTB obviously wanted to make our new enemy the most dangerous one yet, and they have certainly succeeded in doing that. The Ori appear to be all-powerful, unstoppable with no appearant weakness. The Goa'uld? The Replicators? The Wraith? They all seem pathetically trivial when compared to the Ori, who may just be the most dangerous villains I have ever seen in fiction. If they were any worse, they'd have to be the devil himself.

The Ori almost practically are like the Stargate's devil (or rather demons); they apparently inspired the hellish symbolism for fire and also seek to twist a good belief (that of seeking enlightenment) to suit their own sinister agenda. ;)


Random Observations!
- It's nice to have Teal'c back, but... Why exactly is he back??

Good question; perhaps seeing that the Ori are just as much a threat to the Jaffa, but it still felt like there was a scene missing. :S


- The Prior was the same guy who had Vala burned, right?

Yup.


- On-screen confirmation that Lam is Landry's daugther. Now I'm wondering why she's acting so cold towards him.

Guess we'll find out. :)

-Bloodaxe

SciFiGeek
August 13th, 2005, 11:29 PM
And my love for Season 9 continues.

Sure, the episodes may not always be top-notch (The Ties That Bind sure wasn't Forever in a Day quality) but they are, without a doubt, fun to watch. I've read complaints that the philosophical debate of the Ori (is it spelled Ori or Orii?) is boring, which is fair enough; but I find them creepy, and a great new villain, particularly since they're intentions in posing as gods don't seem as blantantly malicious as the Goa'uld. And I can't help but enjoy any scene in which Daniel gets to speechify and make great philisophical debates; he's so good at it. :D (Even if he doesn't always succeed in suading people to his pov...)

My sister kept pointing out that Daniel has yet to bring up his own ascension in conversations with and about Ori/Proctors, and I'm really hoping that means it'll be brought up at an opportune moment and play a role in the fight against the Ori. Particularly since, IMO, I don't think Threads brought enough closure to that storyline. (Or really, any.)

I almost hate to say it, but I'm kind of dreading Carter's return. No offense to her and AT, I think they're both great, but I just have this sinking feeling that once she returns, the show will resume the mediocrity of so many 7th and 8th season episodes that seemed to feature Carter storylines more often than they deserved (particularly with RDA's schedule). I've loved this season so much because Daniel (my favorite character) has gotten so much to do, I get a total kick out of all things Vala, I've formed a greater attachment to Mitchell than I ever did to Ford on Atlantis, and everything so far has been so much fun and so cool. Just please don't let Carter's return be a bad thing. (And bring back Claudia Black to guest lots and lots this season!)

Erik Bloodaxe
August 13th, 2005, 11:37 PM
My sister kept pointing out that Daniel has yet to bring up his own ascension in conversations with and about Ori/Proctors, and I'm really hoping that means it'll be brought up at an opportune moment and play a role in the fight against the Ori. Particularly since, IMO, I don't think Threads brought enough closure to that storyline. (Or really, any.)

He's alluded to it, but I think there's good reason behind the strategy of not laying all your cards on the table in regards to dealing w/ the enemy. ;) It should certainly come up eventually, assuming the Ori haven't already figured it out.

-Bloodaxe

pittsburghgirl
August 14th, 2005, 12:33 AM
I have to say that the first 20 minutes or so bored me to tears. I didn't love nor hate the first four episodes and was really expecting nothing wonderful this time either.

However the last 40 minutes did pick up and got my interest. I just wish the whole episode had my interest.

It was nice to see the soft side of Vala-I had expected that once CB got comfortable with her character that we would be able to see that. Although I suppose it was Martin Gero that managed to really pull Vala out this episode. And the jello scene with CB and BB was really funny.

Someone pointed out on the other lists as well that Daniel had asked a very good question about the Ori and what they wanted-and that is a good question. I do hope that they build on that and actually do manage to follow through on that plot line. IMHO-the boys from Vancouver have a tendency to forget minor things like continuity.

Kalliope
August 14th, 2005, 12:48 AM
Martin Gero should definitely write more Vala-centered episodes in the future.

morjana
August 14th, 2005, 02:54 AM
It's not that I can't believe someone forgot that Daniel and Vala are still bound together again, it's... :rolleyes:

Excuse me...where I did say anything about Daniel going through the Gate **without** Vala?

If Vala doesn't go through the Gate, obviously Daniel doesn't either.

My point was...they LET VALA THROUGH THE GATE!!!


He had a good point. Why should ascended beings care about the mortal realm at all? The goa'uld lived lives of luxury and had the best armies and labor from their deception, so clearly there was some form of "logic" that they subscribed to. ;) And at what point was he expecting them to have any regard for the "common good"? :P

Daniel is more or less subscribing to the practice of apeasement when he tries to negotiate with the Goa'uld, or Anubis, or now, The Ori. Apeasement, by and large, has not had a really good track record in OUR Human history, so why would it work with Aliens?

Daniel certainly hasn't had a good track record with apeasement -- and Jack tried it once or twice himself (The Other Side is the first example that come to mind), and it didn't work well for Jack either.


Be quite the trick for him to have learned anything from that, considering that he FORGOT all those memories. ;)

-Bloodaxe

I think YOU'RE forgetting that Daniel has said (in more than one episode since Season Seven) most of his memories have returned to him.

Daniel mentioned that in the second episode of Season Seven, "Homecoming."

JONAS: "You know, when we first met, you told me that, uh, the issues between my planet's nations would seem insignificant once I found out what was really going on up there."

DANIEL: "Yeah, I remember that."
JONAS: "You do?"
DANIEL: "Yeah."
JONAS: "Hey, that's great."
DANIEL: "It's just...it's all kinda comin' back."

And in regard to Abydos...it's not only DANIEL who appears to have forgotten about Abydos, but everyone at the SGC as well. We haven't heard a peep about our culpability in regard to the demise of Abydos. I've always wondered if that's one of the reasons why the Jaffa and the Tok'ra gave up the alliance so easily in "Death Knell."

Morjana

joasia
August 14th, 2005, 03:26 AM
I think YOU'RE forgetting that Daniel has said (in more than one episode since Season Seven) most of his memories have returned to him.Yes, but only the pre-ascension memories. He got a few glimpses of what happened during his ascension, but it has been glimpses. Later Replicarter did help him to get back some knowledge of the ancients, but I do not think it included actual memories of what he was doing the whole year.
Still, you are right that Teal'c, for one, should remember how the deal with Anubis ended. And everyone who read the files, which we know Mitchell did, and Daniel probably did, to catch up with the world.

LoveYouBaby
August 14th, 2005, 05:01 AM
Interesting episode.

I kinda liked this episode although I was skeptical at first. The relationship between Carolyn Lam and Landry was what I expected. Divorced parents, Carolyn stayed with mother, mother and daughter changes surname back to maiden surname. Father trying to patch things up with the daughter after spending so many years away because he was in the USAF obviously.

Fantastic character developments IMO.

The Priors are getting more creepy by the minute and I actually would like to see one set off from their galaxy to ours, cos I want to see their [Ori's] Stargate, is it different? Is it the Mk1 version? Or even a Mk3?

This episode definitely reminded me of, one of SG-1's earlier episodes. All in all, not bad - 8.5/10

TechnoBoY
August 14th, 2005, 07:48 AM
Daniel is a naive idiot. You would think after 8 years he would know how people work. He shouldve stayed dead. Anyways....

I thought it was a decent ep. Shows us how powerful the Priors really are. Thought it was kind of slow some parts though. But decent.

TheCorpulent1
August 14th, 2005, 08:29 AM
The Priors are getting more creepy by the minute and I actually would like to see one set off from their galaxy to ours, cos I want to see their [Ori's] Stargate, is it different? Is it the Mk1 version? Or even a Mk3?
I agree. After seeing those sweet rings in "Origin," I really want to see more of the Ori's technology. I'm curious about how they power their gates for intergalactic trips, too.

SierraGulf1
August 14th, 2005, 08:34 AM
Now, I may have misinterpreted, but as far as Daniel being a naive idiot goes, I have to disagree.

In the early seasons, Daniel was constantly trying to make peace with other species and peoples, whether they were hostile or hospitable. However, with the Ori, I believe that it is less peacemaking and moreso persuading. With an enemy this powerful, Daniel can only persuade the people around him not to accept the Ori.

Of course, there is quite the complication now. In Origin, Daniel tries to persuade the Doci and I think by now he realizes that the Ori won't change their ways. In The Powers That be, Daniel tries to persuade a civilization to not accept the Ori, as both he and the Prior throw out convincing arguments. Hopefully, in episodes to come, Daniel can win over a civilization. Right now they constantly keep losing (well, only twice, but that's 2/2), and hopefully Samantha Carter's brain can create a solution to these plagues (because Earth is still around for the second half of Season Nine, I suspect that at least we beat the Ori in The Fourth Horseman, even if not earlier).

As far as the episode goes, I notice that many are getting bored of the Ori, and their habit of beating SG-Mitchell and his followers (not yet SG-1). I'd say that since they were only featured heavily in two episodes (9.03 and 9.05) that they need to be given a chance. The fact that the almighty, all knowing SG-1 can't win this time is an interesting plot twist, though (call me sadistic) I would have liked to see this civilization die and watch the guilt that follows, especially since it would cause even more developement from Vala.

Despite what I wanted to see, I still enjoyed the episode. As I said, we got to see through Vala and discover that she knew these people, even if she was posing, and when she realized that their lives had been wasted serving her, she tried her hardest to save them so that they could overcome the Ori and know a life of freedom from false gods. Unfortunately, she failed. I liked the final "Tell others" line, and Vala, Daniel, and Teal'c staring speechless at the Ori. I also liked how Daniel, usually trying to convince the Ori to stop, tells the Prior to save these people despite what he thinks. I also liked Vala's anger that brought her to the point of trying to physically harm the Ori, though we all knew that would never work.

So, all in all, great episode. As for characters:

Mitchell-I'm waiting for a bigger part for him, haven't seen a Mitchell ep since Avalon Part 1, though I expect great things for him from Babylon in a few weeks. Despite his reduced role, I like him so far. Awkward as it is hearing Daniel being called Jackson, I like it in that the writers realize this is NOT O'Neill, and Mitchell isn't all THAT close to Daniel. I jsut wish they'd skipped the "Call me Daniel" so that Mitchell's doing this would actually make sense.

Carter-She's coming back, and SG-1 will be back together next week! Whooo! I hope the writers stop writing her as love-struck (though having known her team members for too long to want them, I think we're safe of this) or as over-intelligent, I just want the powerful, smart, resourceful woman back. And how about a little more reaction to Dad dying? I can only hope.

Daniel-He and Vala have been front and center so far, haven't they. I liked him verbally sparring with the Ori, but when will he realize that won't work? I liked the Daniel/Mitchell and the Daniel/Vala, but where's the Daniel/Teal'c? These two were the only two knowing each other that well on these past few missions and they rarely talked to each other. Then again, Teal'c didn't talk much at all. Daniel's beard is coming off soon, and being a straight male, I can't comment on his looks, but I will mention that he looks odd with the beard. He'll look much more Daniel-ish without it.

Teal'c-Like I said, he hasn't got much speaking lines since Avalon Part 2. perhaps his frequent speaking was due to O'Neill, and, not knowing Mitchell all that well, he has digressed into not talking as much. I'd still like to see more Daniel/Teal'c interactions, those two have developed a great friendship over the years, despite all they have been through (Forever in a Day, Fallen). Teal'c has always been my favorite character on SG-1, and I look forward to Ex Deus Machina and his reactions to Gerak, especially when he (spoilers for 9.07, 9.10, and 9.11) becomes a Prior of the Ori. And where did he come from last night? I thought he had left and then he's back with no explanation.

Vala-So she is a 3d, round, dynamic character after all! I've already mentioned her interactions with the villagers and her guilt later in the episode when they fall ill. Next week being the end of her arc, I want to see big changes and things for the character.

Landry-I like him more and more each week. I like him trying to get through to his daughter, and you really had to feel some pity for the poor man, who's daughter would not open up to him. It seems her gets through her a bit in the end, telling her good luck and what not.

Lam-I'm still not growing attached to her, though I like the Lam/Landry interactions. She was a bit harsh toward Landry, though I, not knowing her past, cannot judge her from that. I'm reserving judgement for her still.

As I said, good episode, and wow, long post. Hope you found reading it worthwhile.

lily
August 14th, 2005, 09:11 AM
How much you want to bet he was referring to the Ancients? *arches eyebrow*

Yes, I thought the same.

And BTW, I think Daniel isn't mentioning his ascension to the Ori because it's something he wants to keep to himself for now. Like a sort of ace under his sleeve. He'll play it when he thinks it's more effective.

Tok'Ra Hostess
August 14th, 2005, 09:25 AM
A gripping episode, once we got into it. The first part was, not slow, just not active(and I'm not talking about people moving around doing stuff, either).

I am intrigued by the relationship between Landry and Lam - and wife/mother. I can just imagine Sam and Carolyn one day having that conversation where Sam'll remind her that at least they're alive; at least she has something to work with... but maybe that's just a fic bunny giving birth to a new litter.... :D

Vala was same old same old, 'til push really came to shove. YES!!! FINALLY!!!<types emphatically on keys> It's about friggin' TIME, boys. CB was terrific, as usual, in the role she has been assigned(or, despite it).

Even though I'd have liked to have learned that she had treated "her people" differently during her time unhosted with them, to have used at least some of her abilities to upgrade their standard of living, I'm resigned to the sad fact that up until the latter third of this ep, she really, truly, never did give a symbiote's a$$ about anybody other than herself. I can only content myself with the knowledge that at least she isn't sadistic - she didn't outright kill or torture anyone - although forced labor under the implied threat of mass execution and torture, and poor living conditions is a form of torture, IMO.

Uncharacteristic Gracie shallow moment: I think that SG uniform was the sexiest outfit I have seen Vala in, so far. :D There's just something about a person... erm... barely... in uniform that I find strangely appealing.... ;)

Daniel was marvelous, in all his interactions. He truly owned this episode, and I think he will continue to be the island of sanity wherever the Ori's smoothness threatens to drown out reason. I am loving this new face of Daniel, built on past strengths and really coming into the fore, more with this new threat than ever before.

Did I miss the part where Mitchel falls down sick? I did see him looking uncomfortable when he was talking to Lam, but next I know he's getting healed by the enemy. I just thought that was subtle, even for Stargate.

Symbiote or no symbiote, I guess that Jaffa are meant to be seen and not heard. Teal'c continues to be the most gorgeous walking, barely talking wallpaper in the series. :rolleyes:

I love the fact that Lam and Vala were helpless before the virus mutating. I look forward to seeing how Lam copes with her helplessness.

The Prior was frightenly convincing. His reasonings seemed insurmountable. Good thing Daniel can keep his head screwed on right. The Prior did not hide the fact that he was using knowledge and tech and he made it quite clear to all that he was causing the outbreak. He also made it clear that it was his way or the highway. :eek: He and what he represents gives me the most delicious shivers. :D :D :D

It is interesting to know that using the healing device takes a toll on the user, but I'd have expected some show of weakness or exhaustion from Vala.

Question: did the hand device run out of power or was Vala just giving up?

This is a top-notch episode, IMO. I'll take 15 more, please. :p

Hubble
August 14th, 2005, 09:31 AM
Martin Gero should definitely write more Vala-centered episodes in the future.

My hope is that there won't *be" any more Vala-centric episodes. We've had her front and center (with Daniel) for 5 shows in a row thus far, and that is quite enough for me, thank you very much.

Kalliope
August 14th, 2005, 09:40 AM
My hope is that there won't *be" any more Vala-centric episodes. We've had her front and center (with Daniel) for 5 shows in a row thus far, and that is quite enough for me, thank you very much.

Enough for you, but not for me :D

Nightspore
August 14th, 2005, 10:06 AM
Enough for you, but not for me :D


Yes, anyone who reads your posts grasps that. Perhaps it might be a good exercise for you to organize a compaign to bombard the Sci-Fi channel with e-mails and phone calls telling them you want a new show starring Claudia Black -- maybe like "Vala, the Pirate Queen," or something. Then you could see Vala in all her outrageous wardrobe front and center in every single episode. Meawhile, other people could go back to watching Stargate SG-1 again, or at least some version of it.

Kalliope
August 14th, 2005, 10:28 AM
What Vala's wardrobe has anything to do with it? I love Vala's craziness, wildness, great sense of humor and actually a sort of golden heart hidden somewhere which I hope Daniel was able to notice in this episode ;) Never said a word about her wardrobe...

ShadowMaat
August 14th, 2005, 10:35 AM
Question: did the hand device run out of power or was Vala just giving up?
As I recall, she said that it was taking longer and longer to work and that it was getting less and less effective. She stopped using it because it wasn't working.

Jonzey
August 14th, 2005, 10:38 AM
I loved this ep. I'm hoping Daniel will get to use some of the hidden powers Replicarter helped him unlock in Reckoning against the Priors.

Nightspore
August 14th, 2005, 10:43 AM
What Vala's wardrobe has anything to do with it? I love Vala's craziness, wildness, great sense of humor and actually a sort of golden heart hidden somewhere which I hope Daniel was able to notice in this episode ;) Never said a word about her wardrobe...


Sort of a heart of gold? Because Vala finally shows some concern some someone other than herself; actually shows some genuine compassion /tears for suffering people, she now has sort of a heart of gold? Sounds to me like she's just showing some human feeling, which is very different from having a heart of gold, IMO.

While she may have a great sense of humor, is crazy and fun/annoying, she still is a liar, a thief, an opportunist, a woman of questionable moral values -- not someone Daniel would likely get involved with romantically, I should think. (After all, he is the "moral compass" of the SGC, isn't he?) If Daniel wants to really like and care for her as a friend in spite of all her shortcomings, that's great. But why that should turn into anything more than friendship is puzzling to me.

Kalliope
August 14th, 2005, 10:56 AM
Sort of a heart of gold? Because Vala finally shows some concern some someone other than herself; actually shows some genuine compassion /tears for suffering people, she now has sort of a heart of gold? Sounds to me like she's just showing some human feeling, which is very different from having a heart of gold, IMO.

While she may have a great sense of humor, is crazy and fun/annoying, she still is a liar, a thief, an opportunist, a woman of questionable moral values -- not someone Daniel would likely get involved with romantically, I should think. (After all, he is the "moral compass" of the SGC, isn't he?) If Daniel wants to really like and care for her as a friend in spite of all her shortcomings, that's great. But why that should turn into anything more than friendship is puzzling to me.

We actually doesn't know the REAL Vala and unless the writers are going to give us this opportunity in the future, we will never know what kind of person she really is. I want to know it, personally. Everything about her past, what events and what people 'cause her being what she is, and I believe there's a great potential here and I really hope the writers are smart enough to know how to use it and not to waste it. Of course, it all depends on Claudia's availability...

the fifth man
August 14th, 2005, 11:07 AM
I like Vala, but tptb should just use her from time to time, to shake things up a little for our good Daniel Jackson. She is great at that. Can't wait for Sam's return though. Seeing sg-1 back together will be sweet.

Nightspore
August 14th, 2005, 11:26 AM
We actually doesn't know the REAL Vala and unless the writers are going to give us this opportunity in the future, we will never know what kind of person she really is. I want to know it, personally. Everything about her past, what events and what people 'cause her being what she is, and I believe there's a great potential here and I really hope the writers are smart enough to know how to use it and not to waste it. Of course, it all depends on Claudia's availability...

You care about getting to know more about Vala – Within the confines of Stargate SG-1, I do not. I do think CB is a very talented actress and I think Vala (however annoying) is good as a recurring character. However, and I think this is the point, for a large part of the Stargate audience (a large part, not all), Vala is NOT one of the regular members of SG-1 and as such, I don't care to see too much time focused on getting to know her/what causes her to be like she is, etc. I personally would rather get to know Mitchell (who is now going to be in the position O'Neill was years ago -- leading SG-1). I might like to get to know more about Landry, a member of the SGC, or maybe even Dr. Lam. I want to see what they do with Carter. And I'd sure as heck like to see a few episodes where Teal'c has something to say and do. IMO, *he* deserves time focused on him rather than on Vala.

You know, TPTB could add another character to the show...say Claudia Christian from Babylon 5, and create a new character. CC was great on B5, she's a very good actress and very beautiful, IMO. That might help the ratings even more. And we could get to know this new character and the writers could spend time focusing on her. The show then ceases to be much like Stargate SG-1 and becomes something else.

I do not want to cause any division between the segments of fans, but I want to watch Stargate, not some other hybrid. I'm open to change, but too many changes to Stargate and they lose me as a viewer. Now, they certainly would gain you, but they'd lose me and it would be a wash.

So, I guess it will be interesting to see exactly WHAT the writers have in store for us.

IMForeman
August 14th, 2005, 11:28 AM
I really think that the Ori storyline is revitalizing SG-1 in every way. As much as I miss Jack and General Hammond (and I miss General Hammond more), I really like where this storyline is going. They've created an enemy that is incredibly dangerous without them being overtly all that menacing. When the people of that planet bowed down before the Prior and began chanting to the Ori, I literally felt that this was the only rational course for them to follow. They are already impoverished, and then they have someone coming and infecting them with a plague if they don't worship their gods. Their only options here were to capitulate or die. Nothing Daniel could have said would have made them choose extinction.

And as glad as I'll be to have Sam back, I'll be sorry to see Vala go. She's been really fun. I love what Claudia was doing with that character.

-IMF

Kalliope
August 14th, 2005, 11:31 AM
Changes are good. Actually they're what made me to give SG-1 a chance this year :D BTW, these changes drew much more viewers than you think, so if the more conservative ones decide to step back because of too many changes (in their opinion), it wouldn't make a big difference, because there're tons of the new others who'd love them.

Shipperahoy
August 14th, 2005, 11:44 AM
Changes are good. Actually they're what made me to give SG-1 a chance this year :D BTW, these changes drew much more viewers than you think, so if the more conservative ones decide to step back because of too many changes (in their opinion), it wouldn't make a big difference, because there're tons of the new others who'd love them.

I'm curious as to what figures you have to back up this statement? The viewership according to the official rating hasn't changed much for better or for worse from last season so who are all of these "tons" of new people that you speak of? If anything, and I'm not saying this as a statement of fact but merely a guestimate on my part, it appears as though the number of new fans have balanced out the number of people who have stopped watching.

Nightspore
August 14th, 2005, 12:06 PM
Changes are good. Actually they're what made me to give SG-1 a chance this year :D BTW, these changes drew much more viewers than you think, so if the more conservative ones decide to step back because of too many changes (in their opinion), it wouldn't make a big difference, because there're tons of the new others who'd love them.

No, changes are not always good, you know that for yourself, I'm sure.

I'm happy for you that you can now see 2 of your favorite Farscape (Claudia and Ben) stars on television. Clearly, you are the viewers TPTB wanted to target when they brought them on.

I don't know how many new viewers these changes added...do you?

I think this discourse is at an impasse.

SGalisa
August 14th, 2005, 12:32 PM
Excellent episode... a little bit of everything. :)
commenting on the ending first...

* Oh boy! Stargate Command has got even bigger problems than before! (super *eek!!*) When the Ori struck down Col.Mitchell and then healed him, he's now in a similar situation as Vala. The Ori staff (glowy bulb) device literally brought her back to life (in her case: from being burnt cinders).

Daniel hasn't been completely struck down... still wondering why not, and if it has something to do with his last ascension/descension. But he does feel pain, so that would make him human again.

Mitchell now has a choice. To turn and believe, or refuse and die. Scary proposition there... and where are those non-intervention policy Ancients?! Still non-intervening?
========

* Anyway, General Landry: "dad" to Dr. Carolyn Lam. I'm guessing the job he did split him and "mom" apart, to which Carolyn hasn't forgiven him for. If it was military related, why in creation is she working for the governement if she's a hired civilian? (Pay or benefits any better?) Definite family issues there, anyway...

========
* here's funny *viewer* moment during the beginning:
When the SG-1 remnant team first meets the people of the planet Vala's Goa'uld once ruled. The first guy runs away only to bring back reinforcements and Jaffa staff weapons pointed at the 3-some. But when Daniel comes forward between Teal'c and Mitchell, and the other guys suddenly apologize and bow down to worship making everyone think it was Daniel they were doing this for - and the camera finally pans revealing its actually Vala standing / walking behind Daniel that the "worshippers" were actually doing this for. :p

ShadowMaat
August 14th, 2005, 01:06 PM
Frankly, I'd be happy if Vala disappeared off the show and never appeared again. But that's my opinion and granted, it doesn't hold a lot of water since I won't be watching the show anyway, but it'd be one less thing for me to complain about and believe it or not, I'd actually like that. ;)

As for "never really knowing the REAL so-and-so". Pfft. We can't base our opinions on what Vala MIGHT be like (well, not RATIONALLY, anyway), we can only know what the producers care to show us. Personally, I think we got some interesting insight into her character in this ep, but that doesn't mean I want to see her again because everything else I've heard about her appalls me.

There are those who despise Jonas. There are those who loathe Pete. Personally, I liked both of them, but I'm not going to run around the board trying to shove my opinions down the naysayers' throats, trying to force them to agree with me and negging them when they say something contrary to my views. That would be a pointless waste of time and it would only piss off a lot of people. This board is supposed to be about sharing opinions- DIVERSE opinions- not about making everyone kowtow to YOUR viewpoint. Generally speaking.

If people don't like what they're shown, well, it's a crying shame, ain't it? But they aren't wrong for feeling that way and they can hardly be condemned for not understanding the "real" character. :rolleyes:

If Vala is your sole reason for watching the show, that's just peachy. Feel free to wax poetic about the glories of the character. But keep the insults, the arrogance, the superiority and the condescension out of it. It's only YOUR opinion that she's the greatest thing since sliced bread and your opinion is no better than anyone else's, even if you think it is.

Fans have every right to disagree. That's why this is a DISCUSSION board. But while fans may have a right to disagree, NO ONE has a right to insult others or to imply that they are worth less over a ridiculous difference of opinion.

If you look up "opinion" in any dictionary, I guarantee you that "fact" is not part of its definition.

Stargate is a fantastic show. It lasted for eight long and glorious seasons without any help from the Farscape crew and it could quite possibly have continued on for eight more WITHOUT them. The fact that Ben and Claudia joined the cast does not mean that Stargate sucked without them, it doesn't mean that it would have failed without them, and it doesn't necessarily follow that the show is better with them. You may have the OPINION that things are improved with their presence, but it's an opinion ONLY.

Ratings are tricky beasts and can be twisted to say anything you want. There are those saying that the ratings are WORSE because of the changes this season... and there are people saying that they're BETTER. And there are a million and one reasons given for both, some of which have nothing to do with who's on the cast list. :rolleyes:

This is an EPISODE DISCUSSION THREAD. That means it's here to discuss the various points, facts, issues, and opinions regarding the ep The Powers That Be. It is not a "Hallowed is the Vala" thread, it is not a "bow down in grateful worship" thread, it isn't even a "you all suck for still watching this crap" thread. If you have a VALID point to make about the ep, if you have an HONEST opinion to share about the ep, then this is the place to do it. Otherwise, there are thousands of other threads on GW where other opinions on specific topics can be shared.

Personally, I hope the ratings are good. I wasn't highly enamoured of the ep, but I know that many others were- mostly, from what I'm seeing here- because of the story it told and because of the somewhat better-than-usual sense of team.

Good luck, Martin. :)

morjana
August 14th, 2005, 01:17 PM
Okay, I don't know of any other way to voice my opinion here, so I'll let it fly. I may be speaking for myself, and if I am, so be it, but...

It is quite annoying when you combine "like" threads. Yes we all know that somebody already started a thread about TPTB. Good for them. I know there are some that get their panties in a knot when this happens because they want to be the "official thread starter" on a given topic.


Anyone else agree?

No, I don't agree with you, because sometimes you miss the forest for the trees.

Morjana

Tok'Ra Hostess
August 14th, 2005, 01:42 PM
We actually doesn't know the REAL Vala and unless the writers are going to give us this opportunity in the future, we will never know what kind of person she really is. I want to know it, personally. Everything about her past, what events and what people 'cause her being what she is, and I believe there's a great potential here and I really hope the writers are smart enough to know how to use it and not to waste it. Of course, it all depends on Claudia's availability...

I don't mean to gang up on you, Kalliope, but, TPTB does tell us exactly what kind of person she is and it in no way contradicts any of the other eps. She travelled to this planet, lied to the people about her still being a god, forced them to continue in slave labor under the implied threat of mass torture and killing (she'd obviously done it when a host to Quetesh and rather than be horrified by it, used the power behind the threat), did nothing to improve the standard of living of the people, and used at the very least that one guy for personal pleasure.

Her only interest in going back was to recoup her treasures, not caring a whit that the Ori were going to be the people's new task masters.

This is the REAL Vala.

If the REAL Vala appears to be growing a strange new-to-her organ called a heart, I wouldn't say it was gold, just yet. It is unfortunate that it is about to be cut out almost as soon as it sprouts. :S

morjana
August 14th, 2005, 02:08 PM
Sort of a heart of gold? Because Vala finally shows some concern some someone other than herself; actually shows some genuine compassion /tears for suffering people, she now has sort of a heart of gold? Sounds to me like she's just showing some human feeling, which is very different from having a heart of gold, IMO.

While she may have a great sense of humor, is crazy and fun/annoying, she still is a liar, a thief, an opportunist, a woman of questionable moral values -- not someone Daniel would likely get involved with romantically, I should think. (After all, he is the "moral compass" of the SGC, isn't he?) If Daniel wants to really like and care for her as a friend in spite of all her shortcomings, that's great. But why that should turn into anything more than friendship is puzzling to me.

Yes, I agree with you regarding Vala.

Also...there were FOUR claims against Vala -- we know that SLAVERY is one of them. How nice that she continued to enslave those people, just so that she could have some treasure. All that pretty gold jewelry, and gold trinkets and what not. Paid for by the blood, sweat and tears of her slaves. They must feel wonderful to wear and to look at -- knowing its price.

HOWEVER...as I mentioned back in the "Origin" thread, it does look like TPTB are busy setting up a situation in "Beachhead" where Vala can redeem herself. And redemption is one of the hallmarks of Stargate.

So...we'll see how this plays out, hopefully, in next week's episode, "Beachhead." We have (we being the fans), after all, allowed for the redemption of other characters in Stargate SG-1...

Morjana

EventHorizon
August 14th, 2005, 03:03 PM
"No, I don't agree with you, because sometimes you miss the forest for the trees."
-Morjana



(I don't know how to do the "Originally posted by..." thing)

I am not going to discuss this any further, because obviously in the minority and I don't want to argue something that won't change a thing.

But, I guess I just see the other side of it. I don't care about the forest... anyone can see the forest. I want to talk about the squirrel running in the undrebrush. It's just my opinion. I am not against these "episode" threads, but let people have smaller discussions, too... live and let live.

esoap524
August 14th, 2005, 03:22 PM
Also...there were FOUR claims against Vala -- we know that SLAVERY is one of them. How nice that she continued to enslave those people, just so that she could have some treasure. All that pretty gold jewelry, and gold trinkets and what not. Paid for by the blood, sweat and tears of her slaves. They must feel wonderful to wear and to look at -- knowing its price.


Morjana


I think it's ironic that to state that Vala is a thief, a liar and an opportunist is a bad thing in the eyes of some "Vala fans". She is all those things, so when people on the forums say so, it's a statement of fact about this character, not an opinion.

I was looking for something beyond the thief/liar, and I got a bit of that out of this episode. Thank you!

I've enjoyed CB's run as Vala and the opportunity to see her play a completely different character than who she played on Farscape. I hope to see her in other shows, movies, etc. I think she's a good actress, exotic, different looking, different sounding--I like that. She's unique. If they bring her back to play Vala--great! If not...well, that's the way it goes.

You mentioned redemtion in your post and I certainly hope to see some of that as well--I think that usually makes for a good dramatic moment.

I know, from my perspective, that she brought a bit of zing to the show and I'll miss that.

Erik Bloodaxe
August 14th, 2005, 03:27 PM
Excuse me...where I did say anything about Daniel going through the Gate **without** Vala?

If Vala doesn't go through the Gate, obviously Daniel doesn't either.

My point was...they LET VALA THROUGH THE GATE!!!

*blinks* Oh, I thought you were complaining about them letting her through to Earth. :P To be honest, she does have one of those "can do less damage out there than in here" personalities, so that concern might've made more sense. :D

But, anyway, if not send her, then what are they going to do? Essentially send only Mitchell? Don't think he's the best at such persuasion against believing in the Ori, nor does he already have that people's trust on his side. ;)


Daniel is more or less subscribing to the practice of apeasement when he tries to negotiate with the Goa'uld, or Anubis, or now, The Ori. Apeasement, by and large, has not had a really good track record in OUR Human history, so why would it work with Aliens?

Daniel certainly hasn't had a good track record with apeasement -- and Jack tried it once or twice himself (The Other Side is the first example that come to mind), and it didn't work well for Jack either.

Do you mean when he tries to get the Prior to heal 'em all again at the end? That's pretty much out of desperation since there was nothing else at that point they could do against the threat.


I think YOU'RE forgetting that Daniel has said (in more than one episode since Season Seven) most of his memories have returned to him.

Daniel mentioned that in the second episode of Season Seven, "Homecoming."

JONAS: "You know, when we first met, you told me that, uh, the issues between my planet's nations would seem insignificant once I found out what was really going on up there."

DANIEL: "Yeah, I remember that."
JONAS: "You do?"
DANIEL: "Yeah."
JONAS: "Hey, that's great."
DANIEL: "It's just...it's all kinda comin' back."

Actually, YOU'RE forgetting that those were only his pre-ascension memories that came back, and he only managed to tap into two memories from during the ascension, one of which Repli-Carter had to show him. ;) Ergo, he could read the report, but actually learning from the experience first-hand would be more difficult.


And in regard to Abydos...it's not only DANIEL who appears to have forgotten about Abydos, but everyone at the SGC as well. We haven't heard a peep about our culpability in regard to the demise of Abydos. I've always wondered if that's one of the reasons why the Jaffa and the Tok'ra gave up the alliance so easily in "Death Knell."

We're no more responsible for the demise of Abydos than we are of Tollana (and actually more responsible for the demise of that nation from "The Other Side", or even the Aschen, but that's beside the point ;) ). Anubis was on his way to destroy Abydos regardless of our interference. And if you think it was the whole deal about the eye that makes us responsible, Anubis didn't actually need that eye to destroy Abydos; he had more than enough firepower already, the eye merely quickened the process. In all honesty, it's actually more Oma's fault. The way I can see that Daniel reasoned it was that Anubis was getting the eye thanks to Ascended interference, therefore another act of ascended interference to undo the previous interference was very much allowed (that it was only Oma who got involved and none of the Others could further imply this); instead Oma stops him out of a wish to not get caught in the process of a bigger violation, helping others to ascend, but en masse this time. And since Daniel was about to rid the galaxy of essentially what her punishment was, who knows what would be wrought upon her this time? This is definitely one of the more major acts that her fight w/ Anubis at the end of season 8 is to atone for. But since Abydos would've been inevitably destroyed anyway and not even ascending could've occured for them, blaming Earth for it probably makes even less sense than the Genii blaming them for causing all of Pegasus' problems. ;)

-Bloodaxe

Scarym1
August 14th, 2005, 03:36 PM
Fascinating. So the Ori disease is the same stuff that was in the episode Frozen. So it was the Ori who gave the ancients the plague.

Wow that is a great thought. Maybe the Ori tried to kill off the Ancients in some sort of civil war. The Ancients then went off to the Pegasus Galaxy and the Ori went off to own little galaxy.

I love this ep. The scene with Daniel as Vala's defense attorney was amazing. His speeches in defense of Vala and his banter with the Prior who showed up were captivating. I love that he is asking the question of why the Ori want to be worshipped. It is almost like they need it for their very survival. Hmmmmm?

I was surprised that Mitchell took sick. At first glance it seemed all of a sudden but then I went back and watch it again. You can see during his report back to Landry that he looks a bit pale and then later it is very subtle but you do see him sort of stumble and looks even more tired than before. I wonder if Mitchell getting sick and then miraculously recovered will have any future reprecussions.

darman
August 14th, 2005, 03:36 PM
Not sure on the reasons mitchell got sick myself. Overall, still an awesome episode by my standards.

I don't think the reason behind the villagers and Mitchell's getting sick has to do anything with lack of physical immunity...I think it has to do with how much you believe in priors' powers. While Daniel, Vala and Teal'c, had run-ins false gods before and they clearly understand what Daniel was talking about when he went one-on-one with the prior. For Mitchell and the villagers this was new ground, for that reason they couldn't distinguish between Prior's and Daniel's arguments and that doubt made them open for attack.

chocdoc
August 14th, 2005, 04:48 PM
Good episode, my favorite so far. Kudos to Martin Gero for writing a riveting ending, making me, for the first time this season, wanting to watch more SG1. Now I can see why they need Sam back. The Ori/Priors are an amazingly compelling enemy---can't wait to see what else they are capable of and how our team faces this new enemy.

Tired, really tired, of Daniel being front and center and doing all the talking, and Mitchell and Teal'c being simply sidekicks. A quarter of the season is way too much, but it seems we are headed into more team episodes, I hope, with Sam back. Maybe Mitchell and teal'c will have something to do soon.

I though Vala was great in this episode.

For some reason I'm not real interested in the Lam/Landry father/daughter relationship. Maybe because I thought the Jacob/Sam story was done so well by the writers. But maybe Sam and Carolyn become friends and Carolyn confides in her about her relationship with her father.

Looking forward to a balance between the characters---looking forward to getting a team feeling again---no not the original team but a new team nonetheless that I want to care about.

majorsal
August 14th, 2005, 05:28 PM
I almost hate to say it, but I'm kind of dreading Carter's return. No offense to her and AT, I think they're both great, but I just have this sinking feeling that once she returns, the show will resume the mediocrity of so many 7th and 8th season episodes that seemed to feature Carter storylines more often than they deserved (particularly with RDA's schedule). I've loved this season so much because Daniel (my favorite character) has gotten so much to do, I get a total kick out of all things Vala, I've formed a greater attachment to Mitchell than I ever did to Ford on Atlantis, and everything so far has been so much fun and so cool. Just please don't let Carter's return be a bad thing. (And bring back Claudia Black to guest lots and lots this season!)

see, i'm feeling just the opposite. from very early into the show (like the third episode in season one), i'd already found my favorite character (sam). so i'm looking forward to things pulling away from so much daniel and daniel-vala stuff. just because sam was gone for these first five eps didn't mean the show had to focus almost exclusively on daniel, vala, and daniel-vala. so while you're dreading sam's return, i'm eagerly awaiting my fave character and the return of stargate sg-1 (which includes ALL the characters getting something to do).

(kalliope, this is just for you -- i don't hate vala or claudia black. i hope, if she returns (and i'm sure she will), she'll be used with other characters and not just daniel exclusively. vala's got great potential, so spread the character around)


sally :)

majorsal
August 14th, 2005, 05:33 PM
Martin Gero should definitely write more Vala-centered episodes in the future.

i found vala's sudden change of attitude rather... confusing? in 'ties that bind', she was in her full selfish mode. in 'the powers that be', she was suddenly acting different, and this was before she met up with her 'followers' on the planet. i wish 'ties' had given us a hint that vala was changing gears, because 'tptb' seemed too abrupt.


sally :)

TheCorpulent1
August 14th, 2005, 06:09 PM
i found vala's sudden change of attitude rather... confusing? in 'ties that bind', she was in her full selfish mode. in 'the powers that be', she was suddenly acting different, and this was before she met up with her 'followers' on the planet. i wish 'ties' had given us a hint that vala was changing gears, because 'tptb' seemed too abrupt.


sally :)
Really? I didn't get that sense at all. It seemed pretty logical that Vala spurred the SGC to send her back to that mining planet under false pretenses (to protect them from the Ori) so she could retrieve her treasure. It was an apparently selfless act built on her normal and, as far as I'm concerned, pretty monotonous selfishness of the last few episodes and "Prometheus Unbound." Once there, however, her soft spot for Daniel and her horrifying experience with the Ori sways her to the side of the angels, at least momentarily, so she confesses to being a false god in order to keep the people from falling under the Ori's thumb. After getting thrown into prison, however, she retreats back into her selfish shell, but once her people start dropping like flies she can't help being moved to offer them aid again. After all, nothing we've seen of Vala suggests that she's a sadist who enjoys watching others suffer; quite the opposite, in fact. In "Prometheus Unbound" she could've easily killed everyone on the Prometheus, but she sticks to Zatting them and ditching them on a ship with tolerable, if not comfortable, life support. And again, in this episode, she makes it clear that she never physically abused her worshippers, which is something, I guess.

So, back to the topic, I don't think Vala was noticeably more goodhearted or anything. Rather, the situation at hand simply brought those qualities that we've already seen her display to a limited extent to the fore. Granted, even that much surprised me the first time I watched "The Powers That Be" because the real PTB have constantly been giving us tiny little doses of her inherently good nature, then burying them so quickly I wasn't even sure I'd seen them. It was initially odd that they allowed themselves to take it so far this time.

Mongo's Girl
August 14th, 2005, 06:21 PM
In regards to Mitchell getting sick, not all the villagers were sick, so it's not like only the SG-1 party (minus Mitchell) were immune. Maybe it was a random thing, or maybe everyone would have eventually gotten sick. Don't know, but maybe it will be mentioned next week.

majorsal
August 14th, 2005, 06:55 PM
Really? I didn't get that sense at all. It seemed pretty logical that Vala spurred the SGC to send her back to that mining planet under false pretenses (to protect them from the Ori) so she could retrieve her treasure. It was an apparently selfless act built on her normal and, as far as I'm concerned, pretty monotonous selfishness of the last few episodes and "Prometheus Unbound." (snipped)


just goes to show you how deeply i embraced this ep, because after i'd posted the post you're replying to, and read everyone's thoughts on vala's 'true' reasons for returning to that planet... you're right! :p i think some of this ep just flowed over my brain or something.

but vala did show some care and concern for them, even though she enslaved them for years...


sally :)

ShadowMaat
August 14th, 2005, 07:20 PM
but vala did show some care and concern for them, even though she enslaved them for years...
A little concern in one trying instance does not a changed person make. Vala was sympathetic in this ep. In this incident. But to think she's suddenly going to go all touchy feely and "Gosh, I was so wrong to do that, whatever can I do to make up for it all and help all these poor defenseless people" every time? Pffft. Not bloody likely.

alewis104
August 14th, 2005, 07:48 PM
Good episode, my favorite so far. Kudos to Martin Gero for writing a riveting ending...(omitted)...The Ori/Priors are an amazingly compelling enemy---can't wait to see what else they are capable of and how our team faces this new enemy.



I agree wholeheartedly. It was a dramatic and unpredictable ending, showing that SG-1 has a real problem to deal with in the future--one that won't be solved with weapons.

In addition, I liked the exploration of the moral dimension--the issue of free will--which we haven't seen as much of in recent episodes.

My only regrets: why can't the writers find something for Teal'c? And why has the off-the-team father-daughter relationship between Dr. Lam and General Landry been played with such mystery and obvious hidden significance? It's like a soap opera! I hope the writers are not planning a significant plot arc around this.

MediaSavant
August 14th, 2005, 08:20 PM
I wish I could say I loved this episode, but it was merely "okay". "Scifi Lite" is a good phrase for it, particularly since I watched Battlestar Galactica right afterwords. Not *that's* drama.

On SG-1, I never really felt that the villagers or Mitchell were going to die--or have anything else happen to them. It didn't help that Lexa Doig's acting as the doctor is decidedly one-dimensional and lacking in nuance.

The Priors annoy me. In real life, religious proselytizers can actually be charismatic, but on this show they are like "religi-zombies"--not creepy so much as boring.

A note to the writer--you shouldn't need to have the characters give a running commentary on whether a characters speech was good or not. That should be obvious to the audience and not require exposition.

As I said, I wish I could say I loved this, because I am a big Claudia Black and Ben Browder fan.

epiphany
August 14th, 2005, 10:57 PM
would realize that you can NOT expect those bent on world -- uh, no galactic-- no wait, universal domination! -- to behave with any reasoning based on logic or have any thought for the common good other than their own viewpoint?

Daniel wasn't trying to persuade the Ori or rather the Prior. The Ori was there and presenting an argument, Daniel was simply countering it. He was presenting the reasoning FOR the villagers not for the Prior. That was fairly obvious to me anyway. Yes he was focused attention on the Prior and the Prior focused attention on him because you know "it's personal between them" but he wasn't trying to convince the Prior of anything really. He basically believes the Ori are bad guys and that's it.


Daniel is more or less subscribing to the practice of apeasement when he tries to negotiate with the Goa'uld, or Anubis, or now, The Ori. Apeasement, by and large, has not had a really good track record in OUR Human history, so why would it work with Aliens?

When? When he told the villagers to NOT go along with the prior? To reject what he was offering? That's about all he could do and it certainly wasn't appeasement--what it's usually called here? Conscientious objecting or peaceful resistance? Let's face it the Prior could strike them down no matter how they decided to resist. If they'd tried to physically resist, he'd have stopped it, just like he did Vala's bullets. Ultimately they'd have been in the same situation.

Or when he told the Prior he didn't need to kill these people just to make a point to him? Ultimately it was the people who decided to bow down, free will and all that. He didn't choose that path, they did. And they had the right to make the decision for themselves, wrong as it may have been.

morjana
August 14th, 2005, 11:45 PM
And they had the right to make the decision for themselves, wrong as it may have been.

Please, when you include the text from one of my posts to reply to, have the courtesy to include my name.

Thank you.

Morjana

Quinn Mallory
August 15th, 2005, 12:12 AM
[QUOTE=lionel_pendergast_rocks]So, General Landry is Dr. Lam's father? When they were fist talking at lunch, I thought they were an old couple, and that would've been really weird. So, what do you guys think about this? It sure makes for some interesting character development.
QUOTE]

I thought it was interesting that TPTB tried to set it up so that there is some ambiguity about the relationship between Lam and Landry. Since I read the news brief about the hiring of Lexa Doig, I knew about the relationship before hand but wouldn't it be weird (and a bit gross) for people to think that they might be an old couple only to find out that it's father-daughter?

Quinn Mallory
August 15th, 2005, 12:20 AM
In regards to Mitchell getting sick, not all the villagers were sick, so it's not like only the SG-1 party (minus Mitchell) were immune. Maybe it was a random thing, or maybe everyone would have eventually gotten sick. Don't know, but maybe it will be mentioned next week.

I'm sure we will learn more about this virus used by the Priors in the future. I think it's probably set up in such a way that something that SG-1 had encountered in the past (and Vala being a host to a Goa'uld in the past) may turned out to be a vaccine to the virus.

Uber
August 15th, 2005, 12:24 AM
Sort of a heart of gold? Because Vala finally shows some concern some someone other than herself; actually shows some genuine compassion /tears for suffering people, she now has sort of a heart of gold? Sounds to me like she's just showing some human feeling, which is very different from having a heart of gold, IMO.

While she may have a great sense of humor, is crazy and fun/annoying, she still is a liar, a thief, an opportunist, a woman of questionable moral values -- not someone Daniel would likely get involved with romantically, I should think. (After all, he is the "moral compass" of the SGC, isn't he?) If Daniel wants to really like and care for her as a friend in spite of all her shortcomings, that's great. But why that should turn into anything more than friendship is puzzling to me.I don't know if she has a heart of gold or not...right now I'm leaning toward not...but The Powers that Be went a long way in breaking through the façade she's been putting up since Prometheus Unbound.

I posted about Avalon 1 that there was one scene there that gave me hope...she seemed to have been genuinely bothered by the idea that Daniel would be more concerned about a beast that could be living in those caves to the point of warning it about her...and then there have been several other times where Vala has essentially said "You don't really know me."

And why is that? I think Daniel hit the nail on the head and pointed out the fact that her outrageous behavior was just her defense mechanism against getting hurt again. She of course made a flippant remark about his observation but I think it was because it hit too close to home.

My point is she endured a lot and became who she became because of what she's endured. Who is the real Vala? I think we were closer to seeing who she really is in The Powers that Be than all the other eps combined.

I think she is worth getting to know...to break through that exterior and find out what's really there. I personally hope that we see more of her in the future...she'd make a good recurring cast member.

I hoped that we'd see more than the over the top sex jokes and wardrobe. I believed that we'd learn something about her that would be redeemable. And I'm glad I was right.

:cool:

Uber
August 15th, 2005, 12:28 AM
In regards to Mitchell getting sick, not all the villagers were sick, so it's not like only the SG-1 party (minus Mitchell) were immune. Maybe it was a random thing, or maybe everyone would have eventually gotten sick. Don't know, but maybe it will be mentioned next week.TPTB is my favorite ep thus far of season 9...it actually felt like a Stargate episode to me...

...but the whole thing about Cam getting sick was forced. I was concerned about the villagers but at no time was I concerned that Cam was going to die.

Another thought...are Daniel and Teal'c (well Teal'c was only exposed to it...junior protected him from actually catching the disease) and now Cam immune from future outbreaks because they've had it before and have been healed?

:cool:

Lys
August 15th, 2005, 12:55 AM
TPTB is my favorite ep thus far of season 9...it actually felt like a Stargate episode to me...

...but the whole thing about Cam getting sick was forced. I was concerned about the villagers but at no time was I concerned that Cam was going to die.

Another thought...are Daniel and Teal'c (well Teal'c was only exposed to it...junior protected him from actually catching the disease) and now Cam immune from future outbreaks because they've had it before and have been healed?

:cool:

Daniel never got the disease before. He was ascended by the time SG1 encountered Ayianna and was exposed to the plague. I don't know how he could be immune to it. And I found very strange that only Mitchell got ill. I understand for Teal'c, but Daniel not being sick is a mystery, unless the disease chooses its targets. :S

Kalliope
August 15th, 2005, 01:05 AM
Really? I didn't get that sense at all. It seemed pretty logical that Vala spurred the SGC to send her back to that mining planet under false pretenses (to protect them from the Ori) so she could retrieve her treasure. It was an apparently selfless act built on her normal and, as far as I'm concerned, pretty monotonous selfishness of the last few episodes and "Prometheus Unbound." Once there, however, her soft spot for Daniel and her horrifying experience with the Ori sways her to the side of the angels, at least momentarily, so she confesses to being a false god in order to keep the people from falling under the Ori's thumb. After getting thrown into prison, however, she retreats back into her selfish shell, but once her people start dropping like flies she can't help being moved to offer them aid again. After all, nothing we've seen of Vala suggests that she's a sadist who enjoys watching others suffer; quite the opposite, in fact. In "Prometheus Unbound" she could've easily killed everyone on the Prometheus, but she sticks to Zatting them and ditching them on a ship with tolerable, if not comfortable, life support. And again, in this episode, she makes it clear that she never physically abused her worshippers, which is something, I guess.

So, back to the topic, I don't think Vala was noticeably more goodhearted or anything. Rather, the situation at hand simply brought those qualities that we've already seen her display to a limited extent to the fore. Granted, even that much surprised me the first time I watched "The Powers That Be" because the real PTB have constantly been giving us tiny little doses of her inherently good nature, then burying them so quickly I wasn't even sure I'd seen them. It was initially odd that they allowed themselves to take it so far this time.

That's why I'd love Martin Gero to write more Vala-centric episodes, 'cause we really don't know the REAL Vala yet.

Uber
August 15th, 2005, 01:10 AM
Daniel never got the disease before. He was ascended by the time SG1 encountered Ayianna and was exposed to the plague. I don't know how he could be immune to it. And I found very strange that only Mitchell got ill. I understand for Teal'c, but Daniel not being sick is a mystery, unless the disease chooses its targets. :SAck!!! You're RIGHT!

Frozen was Season 6...so Sam, Jonas and Jack caught it...and Daniel of couse was at the Astral Waffle House by this point...

...WHOOPS...

:o

However my point about Cam still stands. I didn't for an instant believe that he was going to die...

So my post was partially redeemable...right???

RIGHT???????

:cool:

Lys
August 15th, 2005, 01:24 AM
Ack!!! You're RIGHT!

Frozen was Season 6...so Sam, Jonas and Jack caught it...and Daniel of couse was at the Astral Waffle House by this point...

...WHOOPS...

:o

However my point about Cam still stands. I didn't for an instant believe that he was going to die...

So my post was partially redeemable...right???

RIGHT???????

:cool:

I don't know...maybe... still not sure... :D
I didn't believe he was going to die either. It was the same feeling I got for Daniel at the end of Reckoning. I mean he died so many times and always came back. :rolleyes: The only suspense with Daniel for me at this point was if he was going to descend with or without the naked part of deascension. :D
As for Cam, he's the new guy, he's supposed to be the focus of the season, why would the writers believe we're going to buy him getting sick ? :rolleyes: I guess they didn't know what to do with him, again. What a convenient thing to make him sick, he has nothing to do apart lying in a stretcher. Great character development there ! :rolleyes:

Kalliope
August 15th, 2005, 01:31 AM
Daniel never got the disease before. He was ascended by the time SG1 encountered Ayianna and was exposed to the plague. I don't know how he could be immune to it. And I found very strange that only Mitchell got ill. I understand for Teal'c, but Daniel not being sick is a mystery, unless the disease chooses its targets. :S

It's quite probable in this case. The Prior obviously wanted Daniel to witness the disease around him and then a miracle with bringing all these people back to life, and tell the others what he has seen.

kryon22
August 15th, 2005, 02:25 AM
Maybe the prior technology is based upon advanced nano-technology. The nano-tech in HOT ZONE was deactivated by an EM pulse. That big flash by the Ori staff could have been an EM pulse. The two technologies might be mutually exclusive and Ori technology is obviously more advanced than the technology in HOT ZONE, imo. Sam eventually will figure it out and counteract it and then if these are good villains the Ori will adapt their tactics. There is a lot of exposition in these first five episodes, now I expect the action to pick up next week. I need some space battles please. Oh well, I'm patient I can wait.

I think it is unlikely that it's an EM pulse. Reason simply being that all the earth medical personnel will have most of their electronic equipment frizzed by an EM pulse, and we would probably know about it.

valaCB
August 15th, 2005, 02:30 AM
Dont kill me. PLS! ;)
but i loved 'The Ties That Bind' more.

KatG
August 15th, 2005, 06:14 AM
...but the whole thing about Cam getting sick was forced. I was concerned about the villagers but at no time was I concerned that Cam was going to die.

I might have been concerned about Cam, if I had realized that it was Cam, which I didn't until he was healed. Watching it the second time, we see him not feeling so good, but we never see where he collapses and is hooked up. And when we see him lying there, I honestly can't tell who it is just by looking at him.

Seshat
August 15th, 2005, 07:18 AM
I might have been concerned about Cam, if I had realized that it was Cam, which I didn't until he was healed. Watching it the second time, we see him not feeling so good, but we never see where he collapses and is hooked up. And when we see him lying there, I honestly can't tell who it is just by looking at him.
Yes, it was the same for me. I know they were going for shock value, but there didn't seem to be enough of a set-up to make the scenes work. I definitely blame that on the editing.

SierraGulf1
August 15th, 2005, 07:55 AM
A couple more points that I forgot to make in my episode reactions a few pages back, as well as new ones based on posts made since:

There are three possible reasons as to why Daniel didn't get it, shown following this section from most likely to least likely:

1. The Ori released the virus and selected Daniel to not get it so he could witness their power.
2. Daniel's being ascended at one point prevents him from getting it.
3. Daniel never actually deascended in Threads, seeing as we know very little about how he did and he still has his memory.

Yes, #3 is very farfetched, but it'd be a cool twist. I'm betting on #1.

I liked how this Ori showed some emotion. In Origin, the two Priors and the Doci were very wooden, but this one smiled and seemed to enjoy preaching to the crowds and trying to disprove Daniel. I like my Priors like that. Keep this one around or make more Priors like him.

I also like how the Priors interact with Daniel and the team. With the Goa'uld, rare was the moment when SG-1 were ever in the same room as Apophis or Anubis. It seemed Anubis was the only Goa'uld who even knew their names at time. Now, Daniel seems to have a personal battle with the enemy, and I like how he hasn't revealed his being previously ascended yet.

As far as Vala goes, she's still a greedy, selfish skank and I like her for it. I'm sorry that some, like ShadowMaat, don't, and I agree that this is not a Vala worship thread and you have your opinions. I'm sorry you can't feel the excitement about Season 9 that I am, and I hope things look up soon. Like I said, we must figure out something by The Fourth Horseman to survive their attack. And who knows what the Ori will try in Crusade/Camelot?

And finally, I wasn't sure about when Daniel would shave exactly, but in Beachhead, he's cleanshaven. Perhaps to symbolize the return of most of the old SG-1. Teal'c better get something to do in the next two weeks or I'm going to kill a puppy.

Keep 'em coming!

Uber
August 15th, 2005, 09:11 AM
I don't know...maybe... still not sure... :D
I didn't believe he was going to die either. It was the same feeling I got for Daniel at the end of Reckoning. I mean he died so many times and always came back. :rolleyes: The only suspense with Daniel for me at this point was if he was going to descend with or without the naked part of deascension. :D
As for Cam, he's the new guy, he's supposed to be the focus of the season, why would the writers believe we're going to buy him getting sick ? :rolleyes: I guess they didn't know what to do with him, again. What a convenient thing to make him sick, he has nothing to do apart lying in a stretcher. Great character development there ! :rolleyes:I'll confess that I didn't even recognize that as Cam the first time I saw it...and at the end when he sits up I was like...THAT WAS CAM???

The second time I paid more attention...but still the camera angle didn't do much to give me a clue it was him...I noticed the dogtags and that was about it...

:S

jckfan55
August 15th, 2005, 09:45 AM
Much better episode than last week. Vala was even good. See, I knew it could be done. Perhaps they should have let Gero write more of the episodes.
Still haven't warmed up to Dr. Lam. She has zero bedside manner. I'm sure they don't want to make her a Fraiser clone, but *some* feeling wouldn't be out of place. She mentioned she used to work for the CDC--maybe this is the first time she's worked much with actual patients?
Sam's back next time. yay!

Kalliope
August 15th, 2005, 10:00 AM
Much better episode than last week. Vala was even good. See, I knew it could be done. Perhaps they should have let Gero write more of the episodes.


I hope they'll ask him for more eps in the future. I love what he said (here at GateWorld) about this episode that it's the best SG-1 he's ever written and (it's in Alex Levine's blog at SciFi's Stargate website http://blog.scifi.com/stargate/ ) that he particularly liked writing the Vala character :)

pittsburghgirl
August 15th, 2005, 10:17 AM
I hope they'll ask him for more eps in the future. I love what he said (here at GateWorld) about this episode that it's the best SG-1 he's ever written and (it's in Alex Levine's blog at SciFi's Stargate website http://blog.scifi.com/stargate/ ) that he particularly liked writing the Vala character :)
you are quite right-i had no idea it was mitchell until he came to. how about that for shoddy editing and follow thru.

entil2001
August 15th, 2005, 11:41 AM
When this episode began, I was expecting it to be as relatively light-hearted as the teaser. Considering how Vala’s more ridiculous side was explored in such detail in the previous episode, it wasn’t such a stretch to make that assumption. What struck me was how quickly the episode went from hijinks to heavy drama, and how impressed I was in the process.

I mentioned in my comments for “Origin” that the most intriguing side of the Ori mythology was their depth of true power; unlike the Goa’uld, the Ori are actually god-like in nearly every respect. They make Anubis look like a chump, and he was ready to wipe the floor with the rest of the System Lords. Convincing people (especially the downtrodden) that they should throw off the shackles of the false gods worked rather well when SG-1 could point to snakeheads and be done with it.

In the case of the Ori, they don’t have that. The Priors walk in, do things that they really shouldn’t be able to do (on a massive scale), and then let the not-so-implied threats speak for themselves. No wonder so many bow down to the Ori! From an objective perspective, the Ori are more directly evident in their “godhood” than any of the deities of Earth-based religions, and there’s plenty of belief in those faiths. The Priors are very much like the “prophets” of the Bible, walking in and performing miracles as though they were casual shrugs.

What was most interesting about this episode was the slow but steady erosion of Daniel’s confidence. About halfway through the episode, he was confident that explaining Vala’s true nature and offering freedom would be enough. He certainly wasn’t expecting the Prior to release a plague. Even then, he figured that Vala and the Goa’uld technology would be able to counter the effects. When that didn’t work, he was left with nothing.

Even better, I strongly suspect that the Prior was toying with Daniel and Vala. The Prior had prior knowledge (no pun intended) of Daniel and Vala, and he certainly recognized Daniel and knew about his lack of belief in the Ori. It’s very easy to believe that the Prior had little worry over converting the mining colony; he was more intent on providing an example for Daniel to ponder. Forcing Daniel to admit the power of the Ori and his inability to match it would be a far more powerful effect.

The second half of the episode was all about that process of undermining Daniel’s confidence, and it worked for me, a lot more than I thought it would. I guess I’m feeling what the writers intended me to feel when it comes to the Ori. The concepts of absolutism behind the Priors and the Ori get under my skin. I find myself asking the same question that Daniel keeps asking: what motivates the Ori to demand such utter devotion and fealty?

The slowly re-forming SG-1 team gets a nasty lesson in how bad it’s going to get, and what kind of enemy they are fighting. Unlike the previous episode, I can see how the team is going to be forced back together. As the scope of the threat posed by the Priors is revealed, slowly but surely, the need for an elite and experienced team to deal with their activities will be needed. Episodes like this prove that taking such a measured approach can work wonders.

Liam Kincaid
August 15th, 2005, 11:50 AM
When the Prior told Daniel to "tell others what you have seen", did he mean 'tell other people" or did he mean "tell The Others" as in Oma's "the Others"? The Doci and the Priors do seem to be a bit fixated on Jackson. It might only be because he was the first human they met, but it just might be that they are using him to get to the Ascended beings on Oma's plane.

PugGate
August 15th, 2005, 01:13 PM
How did the prior recognize Daniel? He said something like, "well spoken Daniel Jackson of Earth." But when Dainiel told the prior who he was, he was in a different body in a different galaxy.

Daniel's_twin
August 15th, 2005, 02:03 PM
All I can say is, this was a lot more then I expected! Ok, so I can say a little more....

When I saw the teaser for it (I hadn't read any spoilers for this one) I was thinking "Oh, great. Another Cor-ai episode. Oh, well. Maybe it'll be more interesting then the first one" Then I watched it, and it was like "Whoa! Boy, was I wrong!" I was expecting this to center almost entirely around Vala's trial (or Maldaran :rolleyes: ), so I was really surprised when the stuff came in about the Prior, the fact that the new doc is Gen. Landry's daughter, I was surprised all around!

Could go on, but I'd just be repeating what's already been said (on the positive side). I liked it better then Atlantis. SG-1 continues to go strong!!! :cool:

Tok'Ra Hostess
August 15th, 2005, 02:08 PM
I'll confess that I didn't even recognize that as Cam the first time I saw it...and at the end when he sits up I was like...THAT WAS CAM???

The second time I paid more attention...but still the camera angle didn't do much to give me a clue it was him...I noticed the dogtags and that was about it...

:S

I beginning to wonder if this was intentional.

Maybe Cam just represented the off-world sampling of the population struck down by the Prior. Everyone knows Cam won't die because he has top billing in the show credits, so why overtly pretend that he is in danger? Rather, he is just presented as one of many who were struck with the sickness.

Bit of a stretch?

Daniel's_twin
August 15th, 2005, 02:13 PM
I beginning to wonder if this was intentional.

Maybe Cam just represented the off-world sampling of the population struck down by the Prior. Everyone knows Cam won't die because he has top billing in the show credits, so why overtly pretend that he is in danger? Rather, he is just presented as one of many who were struck with the sickness.

Bit of a stretch?

I think they just had to show that SG-1 can be affected just as much as anyone else on the planet. You knew one of them had to get the Plague. The chances of them not getting it are so small even TPTB could not ignore it. :cool:

fan457
August 15th, 2005, 04:48 PM
Actually I thought Daniel, Teal'c and Vala didn't get sick because Daniel was Ascended, Teal'c is Jaffa, and Vala used to be a Goauld. Anyone with Ascended/Goauld connections is immune. My theory will be tested if Carter also doesn't get sick.

esoap524
August 15th, 2005, 06:08 PM
just goes to show you how deeply i embraced this ep, because after i'd posted the post you're replying to, and read everyone's thoughts on vala's 'true' reasons for returning to that planet... you're right! :p i think some of this ep just flowed over my brain or something.

but vala did show some care and concern for them, even though she enslaved them for years...


sally :)

Maybe she finally met a group of people who've been pretty nice to her, haven't tried to take advantage of her and who finally made her see that perhaps, a little compassion and a little less greed are in order.

I doubt she's completely changed but I think that she saw/has seen a new point of view that perhaps she hasn't seen much of in the past.

But a little foreshadowing over the prior episodes (I hate typing "prior") might have been nice anyway.

Time-wise, hasn't this been about 3 months since she first got to SGC? I've lost track of the time frame.

greytop
August 15th, 2005, 06:47 PM
Actually I thought Daniel, Teal'c and Vala didn't get sick because Daniel was Ascended, Teal'c is Jaffa, and Vala used to be a Goauld. Anyone with Ascended/Goauld connections is immune. My theory will be tested if Carter also doesn't get sick.I believe that Carter did get sick in 'Frozen', if it is same kind of thing as this. Lam said that they were similiar. I don't remember if Teal'c got sick even with Junior. I have to rewatch it again to see after work tonight.

the fifth man
August 15th, 2005, 07:23 PM
Yeah, but Teal'c doesn't have a symbiote anymore. No more super-immunity to diseases or fast healing. So really, can't he get sick now? No big deal, just wondering. Only four more days - thank god (apologies to those who won't see the next episode friday).

Uber
August 15th, 2005, 09:28 PM
I believe that Carter did get sick in 'Frozen', if it is same kind of thing as this. Lam said that they were similiar. I don't remember if Teal'c got sick even with Junior. I have to rewatch it again to see after work tonight.Exactly...Everyone at the Antarctic outpost got sick and had to be healed by the dethawed ancient...except for Teal'c because junior was still there protecting him...

The scary thing is that the only two solutions (other than "believing in the Ori") was to be healed by an Ancient or to be Tok'ra'd.

This bodes poorly for our intrepid team...at least in the near future...

:cool:

SierraGulf1
August 16th, 2005, 06:52 AM
I believe with the military expertise of Mitchell, the historical and social knowledge of Daniel, the brain smarts of Carter, and the warrior's mind of Teal'c, our good ole' SG-1 can win.

Plus, (spoilers from 9.08 and 9.10) we'll have those uber Jaffa from Babylon to help us if the screenshots for The Fourth Horseman are anything to show.

Bring on the team!

buuzero
August 16th, 2005, 09:55 AM
Wow. Just wow.

I gotta give props to all the writers and actors on SG1, season 9 is really, really good. This episode was really, really good. The Ori are a character that are actually scary, at this point I don't know how they will be beaten. Yeah, it sorta made me jump when the Prior showed up and interrupted Daniel. I can't wait till this week's ep, cuz well... heh I think we all know!

Best part of this ep... SG1 freakin LOST! I mean, they really, really lost against the prior! Wow... when's the last time that happened? Good stuff.

My ONLY gripe so far this season is... where the heck is the offworld gate? It was nowhere to be found in this episode... and it really bothered me for some reason. All we get now is the gate-travel sequence to show us when they go offworld. I heard somewhere that Atlantis is using the gate...

I haven't been this excited about a season of SG1 since I was watching old seasons 1-6 for the first time on dvd.

Jace021903
August 16th, 2005, 02:09 PM
This one started a bit lightheartedly and I thought at first that we were going to have another comedy episode, but it soon got serious--in a good way

Have I mentioned that I adore Claudia Black as an actress? I don't know what else to say about her. She is first-rate and I hope she shows up again from time to time. Character development-yay. She does care deep down.
:D

Michael Shanks was so good in this. I loved Daniel's speeches. And how much do the Ori dislike him? Scary.

Mitchell, Lam and Landry continue to grow on me. I think I like the fact that we are getting to know them slowly, but I'm definately ready for some more character development.

Hello, Writers? Teal'c needs some more lines. The poor guy hasn't had much to do.

I liked the ending--the good guys didn't win. And that last shot of Vala, Daniel and Teal'c was really effective; they know how much trouble they are in.

Jace

rosewood
August 16th, 2005, 04:07 PM
My ONLY gripe so far this season is... where the heck is the offworld gate? It was nowhere to be found in this episode... and it really bothered me for some reason. All we get now is the gate-travel sequence to show us when they go offworld. I heard somewhere that Atlantis is using the gate...
I've been looking for this as well. When are we going to see Mitchell step into or out of the gate? I've seen him walking away from the Gate when he met the Prior in Origin I think? And I saw him on the ramp back at SGC with the Prior. I think that may be deliberate until we see the united SG-1 Team go through the gate together. Just my theory.

Or maybe they cut the funding to SG1's Gate CGI and gave it to SGA too? :p

the fifth man
August 16th, 2005, 10:05 PM
Can't wait to see the team walk through the stargate together for the first time. To actually be an official unit again.

GatetheWay
August 16th, 2005, 10:45 PM
Ori- 1, SGC- 0

Daniel's_twin
August 17th, 2005, 10:58 AM
I liked the ending--the good guys didn't win. And that last shot of Vala, Daniel and Teal'c was really effective; they know how much trouble they are in.


I agree, the ending was very good. The second the Prior started healing the people, I couldn't help thinking, "this is worst-case scenario!" I realized that it sounds kind of heartless, and they had to do it to keep Mitchell from dying, but still, very bad, as evidenced by the "Hallowed are the Orii" chant. :cool:

QuiGonJohn
August 18th, 2005, 07:00 AM
The amazing thing is, in this one, the "bad guys" win, not by slaughtering a bunch of people, as we have seen when the Goa'uld win a battle, but by saving the people. A real different spin on things. How are they going to convince people on worlds that the Ori are false gods, against such powers.

Tok'Ra Hostess
August 18th, 2005, 07:25 AM
The amazing thing is, in this one, the "bad guys" win, not by slaughtering a bunch of people, as we have seen when the Goa'uld win a battle, but by saving the people. A real different spin on things. How are they going to convince people on worlds that the Ori are false gods, against such powers.


It does kind of knock the winds out of their sails, doesn't it?

Considering that the native's were at such a low standard of living, I imagine that their quality of life can only improve for at least a generation or two - more than long enough for the Ori philosophy to entrench itself.

In their case, the Ori "truth" will set them free.

TheCorpulent1
August 18th, 2005, 08:29 AM
Of course, the counterpoint to that argument is that the Ori are giving them everything very easily, which robs them of what little self-sufficiency they might've been able to build and thrive on. "Give a man a fish..." and all that stuff.

Tok'Ra Hostess
August 18th, 2005, 09:52 AM
Of course, the counterpoint to that argument is that the Ori are giving them everything very easily, which robs them of what little self-sufficiency they might've been able to build and thrive on. "Give a man a fish..." and all that stuff.

Agreed. I just wonder how long it will take an impoverished society to latch on to the fact, and what SG-1 will be able to offer to entice them away from their free fish dinner.

Not that I think either of us are implying that the Ori will deliver manna from Celesta; the Ori will probably bless their physical labor with sucess, though: good crop yeilds, health, long life, etc. Most folks don't see the point of being liberated from such manipulation.