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KatG
August 18th, 2005, 09:00 AM
Of course, the counterpoint to that argument is that the Ori are giving them everything very easily, which robs them of what little self-sufficiency they might've been able to build and thrive on. "Give a man a fish..." and all that stuff.

I agree but when you're really hungry, you're not concerned with the future. You just want to be fed right now. At that point if one person offered you a fish, and another offered to teach you to fish, but offered you nothing at the moment, what would you choose?

TheCorpulent1
August 18th, 2005, 09:09 AM
Yeah, that's the problem: SG-1 really can't offer them anything practical other than more hardship and responsibilities that they'll have to shoulder alone. All Daniel's promising is the confidence that if they can weather those hardships, they'll develop much further than they could through over-reliance on the Ori. Which is indubitably true, but it's a little too abstract for people to care about in the face of mass starvation.

As for what the Ori will give, I figured the same as you: using their ascended powers to guarantee plentiful crops, good health, etc. Much like Chaya did for her people in SGA's "Sanctuary," only the Ori'd have an added dimension of fear.

ShadowMaat
August 18th, 2005, 09:09 AM
Give a man a fire and he's warm the rest of the day. Set fire to him and he's warm the rest of his life. :D

Sometimes the immediate is better than the long-term, especially when fire in involved. ;)

Besides, what if the side-effect of being taught how to fish meant that you could never do anything else as long as you live?

TheCorpulent1
August 18th, 2005, 09:29 AM
Then I'd say that must've been a pretty interesting fishing lesson. ;)

the fifth man
August 18th, 2005, 12:34 PM
Sg-1 is definitely going to have very rough times ahead. I think what we saw in that episode will happen over and over again. The Ori are going to be able to fool many more innocent, naive worlds into submission long before our beloved team can find a way to stop them. Should make for exciting tv though.

Tok'Ra Hostess
August 18th, 2005, 01:28 PM
... Much like Chaya did for her people in SGA's "Sanctuary," only the Ori'd have an added dimension of fear.

<nods> I think that as the season progresses we'll be making frequent comparitive studies between Chaya's world and Ori-dominated worlds.

Tok'Ra Hostess
August 18th, 2005, 01:32 PM
Give a man a fire and he's warm the rest of the day. Set fire to him and he's warm the rest of his life. :D


OMG, I nearly burst an important vein laughing! Can't green you ATM, but that's gotta be one for the Prior book of parables. :p :p :p

DarkQuee1
August 18th, 2005, 01:53 PM
I had problems with this ep (and what it portends for the future). The second half would have been a decent ep, but it had a total disconnect with the first half, which was a comedy version of Cor'ai. Dealing with the first half first: the character of Vala remains totally problematic for me. There's no substance there--and when they try to give us some, at the end, for me, it's not believable based on the character we've seen to that point. She remains not particularly bright (or, in the alternative, totally clueless). (To think that they would even consider putting her on an SGC team suggests a serious disconnect with reality.)

We're supposed to feel sorry for her with the whole "torturing the host" thing (emphasized by the comment in the ep that the folk who did it couldn't tell the difference). Unfortunately, there was an interesting line in the episode: according to Vala, the rebellion and torture occurred tortured *before* the Goa'uld was removed by the Tok'ra. In other words, the people weren't beating up on the innocent host, they were beating up on a Goa'uld who had committed mass murder and mass torture. Yes, true, the host goes along for the ride, but at that point, she was still Ketesh and the host was totally suppressed. I really don't have a problem with the oppressed "slaves" going after the Goa'uld.

Interestingly, once she was free of the Goa'uld, she came to this little world--and proceeded to play God again. She could have gone the Kendra route but she chose, instead, to lord it over the people, rip them off and keep them in a state of perpetual poverty. This ep left me with no sympathy whatsoever for Vala.

Which meant I simply didn't buy her "conversion" at the end into someone caring for these people endlessly. We have not been given anything to that point in her character to suggest that she would ever give that much of a damn.

And Daniel made a huge mistake in insisting she go out and tell them the truth, to prove that gods are false. With all his study of history, he still doesn't grasp certain basic facts about people and cultures? When confronted with something like this, there would really be only two possible outcomes: either the people would go the Ketau route and not believe what you're saying, or they *would* believe, get totally ticked at being misled and misused, and try to hammer their former god into the dust. Which is what happened. The odds that they would accept this with total equanimity and reason were slim to none. (Especially when you consider what Ketesh's former slaves who rebelled--obviously realizing she was a false god--did when they could.)

While the second half was better than the first, it also pointed out some problems with the over-arcing storyline and the setup. TPTB have been forced to make the Ascended look even worse than before (if that were possible)--and totally undermined their throw-off line that we were somehow being "protected" in the last eight year (yeah, we must have all missed that protection, somehow). TPTB have to try to explain why the Others don't step in and so we get this excuse about not interfering unless the Orii use their powers, which seems increasingly feeble with everything the Doci/Priors do.
Because if giving the Doci and the Priors superhuman powers--heck, some Ascended powers, really--does not qualify as the Orii using their Ascended powers to succeed and accomplish their aims, then the whole thing is a hum and the Others don't really give a damn about ever helping anyone. No matter what the Orii do, short of outright attacking the Others, would ever qualify.

Yes, the Orii are exceptionally powerful and they gave exceptional powers to their servants. Which creates a problem in storytelling. When your "villains" get that powerful, your heroes end up being able to win only by (a) luck, (b) changing the rules down the road or (c) the ever-popular and overused deus ex machina, such as finding this amazing piece of technology or finding even more-powerful allies. It certainly won't be enough to just "win the hearts" of the various peoples out there, because the people in this ep decided initially not to worship the Orii--and it did them no good. Either SG-1 finds a way to counter the actual *power* the Priors, Doci and Orii have, or they should lose in the end (and, in the real world, they would).

Another problem is that we have basically heard all of the main arguments for and against the Orii in this episode. There really isn't anything left to say. From here on in, they'll just be repeating themselves.

RCC (I think; it might have been BW) has also said that they won't play the show the way they did in seasons 7 & 8, in that there will be no more tying up or finishing any of the storylines. So, we get to look forward to the same storylines playing out until it rides off into the sunset. Exciting prospect.


Last, but not least, is the whole Landry-Lam idiocy. This would never be allowed in real life, especially if they are at odds with each other (and we're supposed to believe that Jack set this up. What? He turned the SGC in a family-counseling center?). TPTB spent years telling us that Sam and Jack could not get together because of the regs (and, no, I don't want to debate ship. That's *not* point of this comment.), but they are going to have the CMO of this base be the daughter (or any relative) of the base CO? Not in a million years. Yes, I know, there are other civilians on the base, but none of them (1) get their evals directly from the general, as the CMO does, and (2) can relieve the CO from command, as the CMO can. Which is also a reason why the CMO on a military base would *not* be a civilian, because the military would never put that kind of control over a general (among others) in the hands of a civilian doctor.
This is one of the dumbest ideas they've ever had.

pittsburghgirl
August 18th, 2005, 02:04 PM
Darkquee1-you are so right-that post was positively brilliant. What a total waste of a good actress. CB has so much talent-and the dreck that they are giving her.

Kas
August 18th, 2005, 11:49 PM
What a total waste of a good actress. CB has so much talent-and the dreck that they are giving her.

I, for one, can't agree at all with this. Claudia is very talented, we know that AND she is using that talent here... very, very well indeed. OK, we've seen her do the reserved, soldier angst and now we are seeing a massively different character... funny, saucy and not above using the sexuality. She has created an original character so unlike her last big gig. That is TALENT and that is using her abilities. She is enjoying the role and certainly doesn't believe it beneath her... thank goodness, as I'm really loving her work here as I did previously. It's fresh, exciting and different.

Well, I guess that this discussion is for another thread and so I'll wander off. I just wanted to put that out there as this was brought up on this thread.

DarkQuee1
August 19th, 2005, 11:04 AM
A earlier post in this thread claimed that the Priors/Orii got the people on this planet to worship them, not by slaughtering them, but by saving lives.

Huh? I admit to getting whiplash when I read that. Was I watching a different episode? Because I could have sworn that I saw the Priors give the people they were trying to convert an unbeatable plague, that killed any number of them, in a effort to get the people to worship the Orii. And they would have let the entire population die, if there had been no capitulation. How is that *not* conversion by the sword? Did they win the "hearts and minds" of the populace? Not really. "We'll kill you all if you don't do what we want." Do they actually have to kill everyone for this to be forced conversion, rather than persuasion? Their persuasion actually failed, so they resorted to force.

I'm sorry, but I don't see how it can be even suggested that they won them over by being saviors in a crisis, since they created the crisis in the first place. They didn't win them over by "saving lives"; they "won" them over by beating them over the head with a plague until they cracked.

Kalliope
August 19th, 2005, 11:48 AM
A earlier post in this thread claimed that the Priors/Orii got the people on this planet to worship them, not by slaughtering them, but by saving lives.

Huh? I admit to getting whiplash when I read that. Was I watching a different episode? Because I could have sworn that I saw the Priors give the people they were trying to convert an unbeatable plague, that killed any number of them, in a effort to get the people to worship the Orii. And they would have let the entire population die, if there had been no capitulation. How is that *not* conversion by the sword? Did they win the "hearts and minds" of the populace? Not really. "We'll kill you all if you don't do what we want." Do they actually have to kill everyone for this to be forced conversion, rather than persuasion? Their persuasion actually failed, so they resorted to force.

I'm sorry, but I don't see how it can be even suggested that they won them over by being saviors in a crisis, since they created the crisis in the first place. They didn't win them over by "saving lives"; they "won" them over by beating them over the head with a plague until they cracked.

Yeah, but these who died and were brought back to life by the Prior will be worshipping Ori for just it - bringing them back to life.

TheCorpulent1
August 19th, 2005, 11:55 AM
While I'm sure those people are glad they're not dead, I think they're more likely to be worshipping out of fear because they know what the Priors are capable of now.

Tok'Ra Hostess
August 19th, 2005, 12:21 PM
Did they win the "hearts and minds" of the populace? Not really. "We'll kill you all if you don't do what we want." Do they actually have to kill everyone for this to be forced conversion, rather than persuasion? Their persuasion actually failed, so they resorted to force.



Your absolutely right, and I don't think anyone was argueing that the Ori were good guys. QuiGonJohn specifically called the Ori "bad guys."

What we're talking about is how people are going to react to the reality of this sort of power. The Ori are powerful; the Ori giveth and the Ori taketh away.

He gave that sick fellow back his health before Daniel and company came to the planet. Then when the Prior encountered resistence, he "took away" the fellow's health, and, for good measure, struck a number of others with plague, no doubt knowing that the Earth visiters would use their technologies to help the people - and fail.

In this I see very little dif between the Ori and the God of the Bible book of Exodus: God strikes the Egyptians with plague, and just so that his chosen people understand his might, they get the first few plagues, too. Their water was as bloody as the Egyptian's and they got the frogs and a few other plagues.

Then, after an impressive show of force that ends with the parting of the Red Sea and drowing the chariots of Pharoh, God says, (cribbed from the Book of Exodus, Googled)

19:4. You have seen what I have done to the Egyptians, (or, in our case, to SG-1 and the Goa'uld) how I have carried you upon the wings of eagles, and have taken you to myself.

19:5. If therefore you will hear my voice, and keep my covenant, you shall be my peculiar possession above all people: for all the earth(P8X-412 ;)) is mine.


What do you say to somebody who's hurt you like that, and hurt the non-believers even worse? I don't think "no" is an option....

Isn't that basicly what the Ori were doing with the natives of the Converted-Planet-of-the-Week?

QuiGonJohn
August 20th, 2005, 05:15 AM
Tok'Ra Hostess great post, and interesting take on comparing the Ori to "God".

DarkQuee1, not only what Tok'Ra Hostess said, but also, I bet many of those people don't believe the Ori gave them the sickness, but rather that it just happened somehow, and the the power of the Ori, through the Prior, was able to heal them. Tell me those people would be totally against believing the Ori to be gods.

alewis104
August 20th, 2005, 08:22 AM
In this I see very little dif between the Ori and the God of the Bible book of Exodus: God strikes the Egyptians with plague, and just so that his chosen people understand his might, they get the first few plagues, too. Their water was as bloody as the Egyptian's and they got the frogs and a few other plagues.

Then, after an impressive show of force that ends with the parting of the Red Sea and drowing the chariots of Pharoh, God says, (cribbed from the Book of Exodus, Googled)

19:4. You have seen what I have done to the Egyptians, (or, in our case, to SG-1 and the Goa'uld) how I have carried you upon the wings of eagles, and have taken you to myself.

19:5. If therefore you will hear my voice, and keep my covenant, you shall be my peculiar possession above all people: for all the earth(P8X-412 ;)) is mine.


I agree completely, but I would not limit this to the Christian God. God-centered religions, monotheistic and polythesitic, do tend to "persuade" by intimidation. There may be the "carrot" of eternal paradise, but that carrot is fairly ephemeral without the "stick" of pain and suffering here and now -- not to mention eternal damnation -- which the omnipotent can cure by the power of miracle.

warmbeachbrat
August 20th, 2005, 09:40 AM
Your absolutely right, and I don't think anyone was argueing that the Ori were good guys. QuiGonJohn specifically called the Ori "bad guys."

What we're talking about is how people are going to react to the reality of this sort of power. The Ori are powerful; the Ori giveth and the Ori taketh away.

He gave that sick fellow back his health before Daniel and company came to the planet. Then when the Prior encountered resistence, he "took away" the fellow's health, and, for good measure, struck a number of others with plague, no doubt knowing that the Earth visiters would use their technologies to help the people - and fail.

In this I see very little dif between the Ori and the God of the Bible book of Exodus: God strikes the Egyptians with plague, and just so that his chosen people understand his might, they get the first few plagues, too. Their water was as bloody as the Egyptian's and they got the frogs and a few other plagues.

Then, after an impressive show of force that ends with the parting of the Red Sea and drowing the chariots of Pharoh, God says, (cribbed from the Book of Exodus, Googled)

19:4. You have seen what I have done to the Egyptians, (or, in our case, to SG-1 and the Goa'uld) how I have carried you upon the wings of eagles, and have taken you to myself.

19:5. If therefore you will hear my voice, and keep my covenant, you shall be my peculiar possession above all people: for all the earth(P8X-412 ;)) is mine.


What do you say to somebody who's hurt you like that, and hurt the non-believers even worse? I don't think "no" is an option....

Isn't that basicly what the Ori were doing with the natives of the Converted-Planet-of-the-Week?

Well, I think the situations are a bit different. The story in Exodus has to do with the chosen people being enslaved by the Egyptians and Pharoah refusing (repeatedly) to let them go. Each plague was escalated in an effort to convince Pharoah to free them, but though he would agree to release them, he would then refuse to let them go and re-enslave them. That the Hebrews suffered the plagues the same as the Egyptians was an unfortunate circumstance of their enslavement--ultimately, they did not suffer the same fate in the final plague. In that light, I don't think the situations are very analagous.

Tok'Ra Hostess
August 20th, 2005, 11:40 AM
Well, I think the situations are a bit different.

Probably. I'm not saying that the Ori are an exact copy of the OT God, just that I see little difference in the tactics both used.


That the Hebrews suffered the plagues the same as the Egyptians was an unfortunate circumstance of their enslavement--ultimately, they did not suffer the same fate in the final plague. In that light, I don't think the situations are very analagous.

Welllll.... I'm not sure which plague of the ten it was, but God specifically made a distinction between the Egyptians and the Isrealites, a distinction that he could very well have made from the beginning - seems to me.

Personally, I think he let them suffer through the first three or four plagues to put the fear into his people, to soften them up for that Mount Sinai scene, when he demanded that they serve him unconditionally.

Tok'Ra Hostess
August 20th, 2005, 11:47 AM
I agree completely, but I would not limit this to the Christian God. God-centered religions, monotheistic and polythesitic, do tend to "persuade" by intimidation. There may be the "carrot" of eternal paradise, but that carrot is fairly ephemeral without the "stick" of pain and suffering here and now -- not to mention eternal damnation -- which the omnipotent can cure by the power of miracle.

<nods>I only really know the Biblical stories; I'd love to read some stories from other religions that could relate to the philosophical struggle presented by the Ori.

1DanielForMe
August 23rd, 2005, 04:45 AM
Christianity, and Islam are probably the two religions which most emphasise punishment for not worshipping a particular deity.

As far as the episode goes, I don't really have much of an opinion on it other than that Dr. Lam seems to be coming more into her own, and that Vala is actually starting to care about others besides herself.

Gaterelle
August 25th, 2005, 12:44 PM
I loved this episode, just as I have loved the previous ones.
Everything is just great, I can't think of one single thing that I don't like.
I love all the plots and all the characters. I never though anyone could replace my lovely Janet Frasier but I really like Dr Lam, especially now that we see there's a connection with Landry! :) I thought that scene was played out great. :)

Oh yeah, one thing: why do I feel like Chris Judge isn't acting as well as he had previously? THat's weird because I really know he can act, there's just something off with him this season...

Gaterelle
August 25th, 2005, 12:49 PM
I'm sorry, but I don't see how it can be even suggested that they won them over by being saviors in a crisis, since they created the crisis in the first place. They didn't win them over by "saving lives"; they "won" them over by beating them over the head with a plague until they cracked.

I'm with you on this one! It's rather evil to make ppl sick and then heal them, just to play gods.

Elite Anubis Guard
November 8th, 2005, 12:04 PM
Well this was certainly an interesting episode. A nice episode for Vala, shame she isn't going to be a regular now, she's been a fantastic character. It was also nice to see that the Ori aren't going to be a push over. Really liking the new season now.

bcfc
November 8th, 2005, 12:14 PM
I enjoyed it, it gave more mystery on the Ori and gave an impression that they mean business. It didnt surprise me that they couldnt be stopped by a gun LOL!.

It also seems that they were focusing on Daniel and Vala AGAIN, and more light was shed on Landry and Lam's relationship which was a plus.


:) :D :) :D

Serebii
November 8th, 2005, 12:17 PM
Wow...good episode

Didnt like how there was no explanation to Teal'c being there (unless I missed it) but had good drama, some nice subtle comedy bits...definitely showed the power of the Ori, nice touch with the Prior being the guy who burned Vala too.

Good Episode...Am really loving this season

The Signal
November 8th, 2005, 12:47 PM
I liked it too, but i am with Serebii, we needed some explanation behind Teal'c being there. Daniel had some good moments, and I liked the caring side of Vala that came through. And does Mitchell have a catchphrase already?
"Let's pretend I didn't say that" Thats twice he has said it now in 5 episodes (maybe more if I didnt here one)

Yay 300th post

kirmit
November 8th, 2005, 01:12 PM
Is it just me or does the Ori story get better each week? Seriously as each week progresses I get to liking them more.

esoap524
November 8th, 2005, 04:45 PM
Well this was certainly an interesting episode. A nice episode for Vala, shame she isn't going to be a regular now, she's been a fantastic character. It was also nice to see that the Ori aren't going to be a push over. Really liking the new season now.


I think you'll see her again in season 10. Nothing official but I have a feeling...

the_ozman
November 8th, 2005, 04:59 PM
That was a really cool episode.

I really got the feeling that the Orii are a great threat from this one - more so than before. It is good to see that the Orii are not all about bigger weapons, faster ships and better technology. The Priors are really becoming quite chilling with their religious rhetoric.
I loved the part when Daniel is trying to figure out why the Orii are doing what they are doing. With the Goa'uld, it was all about power and aquisition, whether that be the aquisition of technology, or the aquisition of slaves and territories. The Orii have no need for these things as they are already very powerful and have no real need of slaves.
I mean, how exactly do you fight them? They don't come in guns blazing, or send thousands of warriors to attack you, they use their technology even more deceptively than the Goa'uld did, to convince people to worship them.

I was slightly worried before the season started that the Orii were just going to replace the Goa'uld as the next power-hungry race of beings, but I don't get that feeling at all anymore.

I'm really looking forward to seeing where this is going.

Stricken
November 9th, 2005, 12:50 AM
Its sad when you think about the fact this is the last but one episode with Vala in, she has become part of the team, but next week we get Sam back!
The Ori are here, their large and they demand worship from the peoples in this Galaxy, this episode shows a rare sight in SG-1 episodes and that was we don't always win something that is touched on enough in Stargate in my opinion
Daniel was on fine form, debating with the Prior and then the Prior twisting everthing he says and using it to show that the Ori are powerfull, this episode touched on the philosophical point of view on the Ori, how they use the knowledge they have gained by ascencion to inflluence the belifs of those on a lower plain of exsisitence.
In essences this episode was showing the powers the Ori had given their Priors and that they are indeed a force to be reckoned with.

This in my opinion was a calm episode, which touched on everything we need to know about the Ori, at least this way we can get to the action latter on!

The Powers That Be gets a S.G.C Rating of 8 out of 9 Chevrons
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Chaka's_Mum
November 9th, 2005, 03:24 AM
How to increase your base of believers:

1) Appear through the gate and offer a 'new' religion.
2) if people don't buy it, make them all start dying until the survivors capitulate and beg for help.
3) 'magically' cure and resurrect the lot of them.

Hey Presto! New worshippers! Brrr...

An interesting interpretation of 'Free will' there!

Wow! Vala has a conscience! Sort of.

Daniel's_twin
November 9th, 2005, 08:53 AM
How to increase your base of believers:

1) Appear through the gate and offer a 'new' religion.
2) if people don't buy it, make them all start dying until the survivors capitulate and beg for help.
3) 'magically' cure and resurrect the lot of them.

Hey Presto! New worshippers! Brrr...

An interesting interpretation of 'Free will' there!

Wow! Vala has a conscience! Sort of.

Yup. It's kinda buried down under the toughness and *ahem* "whole sexual... thing." Hope we get to see lots, lots more of her in the coming season(s?). :cool:

Galluslass
November 9th, 2005, 08:57 AM
Well, this ep was...well, it was OK. Certainly gave us an insight into how bad a$$ the Ori are, and how ingenious SG1 are gonna have to be to beat them.
It also gave me a heads up on a few storylines possible for S10 through the Ori's ability to bring people back to life. What I mean is, we had that get out clause with the sarcophagus (sp) and the ascension.....I'm kinda thinkin' that this Ori' 'taker and giver of life' thing is somehow going to bring a few members of SG1 back from the dead. Maybe not. :rolleyes:

Thoroughly sick of Vala and her wise cracks - and DJ and Mitchell's roll-eyed looks. It was OK the first ep, OK for the 2nd, but now wears a bit thin for me.
5/10 for this one.

The Signal
November 9th, 2005, 09:10 AM
I am still loving Vala's wisecracks, they were one of the things that made this episode great IMO, especially the:
DJ: He's doing his best
V: Thats wat scares me
(or something along those lines)
Daniel and Mitcell have not really interacted as well as I had hoped, perhaps when Vala leaves, and Sam returns

If we are giving this a rating, 8/9 chevrons (thanks for the rating idea SGC :D)
AND it bumps Meridian out of my top five episodes.

Elite Anubis Guard
November 9th, 2005, 10:14 AM
It's Vala's =dry humor which adds something to the episodes.

Madeleine
November 9th, 2005, 02:09 PM
This was mostly great. It was tense (in a good way) to see Daniel arguing with the Prior. It was like watching a drowning man who can almost - but not quite - swim. I got the feeling that Daniel was really close to winning but all the time I knew he'd lose. Teal'c needed more of something. An explanation of his presence would have been a start.

Vala's still fab. I enjoyed her 'god' act, and the boys' discomfiture as they tried to work out how to respond. Nice to see she has a heart, even though she pretends not to.

Mitchell is pretty blank. Ben's not had anything to stretch him since the opener. He's a superb actor, but there's not much acting for him to do. It saddens me a little that the writers are giving him the same habit of spouting pop-culture quips at uncomprehending offworlders that he had as John in farscape. He's doing it well, and I like Mitchell cos there's no reason not to... I just feel a bit like the writers have bought a prime fillet steak and minced it up to make chilli.

Beau Bridges still hangs his mouth open. I got two sudokus done while he was onscreen.

Lam is surprisingly good. Where Janet was a doctor by vocation Lam seems to be a doctor by profession. I don't mean that as a judgement on either, just that I'm impressed by how Lam brings a very different sort of energy to the CMO role to what Janet did. I still miss Janet, but what we've got is pretty good.

The only bad bit was the stupid contrived father/daughter thing. Blee.

gone_fishin'
November 10th, 2005, 02:53 AM
Agree totally about the poorly executed 'threat' of Cam dying.

Ask yourself this though -- we all new that RDA wasn't going to die in Frozen (or Solitudes, or *countless* other eps) but there was a real tension and involvement there, so why did we feel a threat then, despite the fact that we knew The Hero (TM) would never get killed and not now?

While others will rabidly disagree, I think it's essentially down to a few factors:
1) Cam has been force-fed as Hero without any proof, so who really cares?
2) BB is a fantastic actor and I loved Farscape, but on SG1, let's face it, he may as well not be there (due to to the writing and the uber-Jack-Jonas-lite slant of his character)
3) The writing for S9 in general and this episode in particular varies from Train Wreck TV to incredibly average sci-fi lite
4) Yet another reworking of previous SG1 episodes (in this case Cor-ai and Frozen). Are we going to see _any_ original ideas here in S9? Been there, done that, seen better.
5) As much as I hate the fizzling out of Sg1 as a team (and by the looks of it, as a series), I am liking Vala. No I don't want the OTT panto character to totally dominate the show, but at the moment there's a great big honking hole which just ain't being filled by washed-out faffy characters. See (6)
6) Say what you want to say about some of the S7/S8 performances (when they were good they were very very good and they more than make up for the yech), but RDA simply has a massive amount of charisma. I just don't see that with SG1 members (or actors) at present -- hence a Big Honkin' Hole -- and I find it hard to really give a stuff about any of them.

I'm convinced I must be watching a different show to everyone else.
I really felt S9 was going to go somewhere with the new direction and I welcomed the initial change but each episode has been at best a further anti-climax or at worst a strange Wormhole Extreme without the wit where I've felt it was a total waste of my time watching it (and I've *never* felt that about Sg1 before -- not even the dodgy episodes).

If this episode was supposed to have been the best so far, to quote Tangent: "Cheyenne, we have a problem".

J, non-plussed

The Signal
November 10th, 2005, 08:16 AM
Yes, I thnk you are watching a different series. I do agree with the first part of number one, he has been force fed as a hero, but he is going to take some getting used to, had he been there from day 1, and RDA had just come in, you wouldnt like RDA yet. I found the episode gripping and written to almost perfection, you dont need to agree with me gf, but i think that it was well worth watching several times. But i did find the Michell dying threat pointless, had it been done from the begining, it would have been better, that is why the Jack bit was so good, it was done with more depth, whereas this was done during the part of the episode where things were just about to be wrapped up, but this is all that stopped it, IMO from getting a PTCG 9/9 chevrons, it got 8, still one of the best episodes out there in my book

Hulabaloo
November 11th, 2005, 12:44 PM
Well this was a good ep, i enjoyed it a lot.

Jeffer
December 8th, 2005, 07:02 PM
it just aird in Canada and it was good that didn't even look like Mitchel on the bed it looked more like Kurk russel

SeaBee
February 15th, 2006, 04:09 PM
Better, but not brilliant.

The writers seem to be slowly getting the hang of writing Vala, although I still feel that they are still putting in too much comedy into her.

They still seem to be struggling with Cameron, though.

phaeton
July 27th, 2006, 04:23 PM
Good to see the Gen Landry / Dr. Lam relationship revealed ot will be interesting to see what the tension is all about.

Another Vala/Ori storyline which I didn't mind, it seems the Ori are very masterful at manipulating/convincing people to there way, this I feel will be a big problem down the track.

I'm still waiting for a Teal'c / Jaffa storyline (I know its coming).

Overall Rating 7 3/4 out of 10 - Cool Story but not cool enough.

anulus
July 28th, 2006, 07:43 PM
I must have missed something -- why was Teal'c there? Last week, didn't we see him leave? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he was -- but an explanation would have been nice. It made me think it was out of sequence or something.

Not my favorite ep -- but I am still enjoying the season. I didn't like every ep from the past seasons either -- so no biggie. I have always liked Vala and she keeps growing in character every week. Daniel is just his usual wonderful self. I'm also ready for them to let BB loose.

Exactly. Why was Teal'c there? He seemed to have reverted to his Season 1-3 character. Strong silent and letting all the humans do all the talking. He didnt add to the story at all which is a shame. In Seasons 7-8 Teal'c wasnt just a hanger-on.

To be honest, this is the first time I thought an SG 1 ep was boring. I miss Jack. To me it isnt SG1 anymore. Maybe they should have done another spin off instead of thinking that SG1 could continue.

I thought Daniel was written as naive and we know his character has gone way past that.

I wonder how Sam is going to fit in. There will be two Colonels wont there?

John's PuddleJumper
August 13th, 2007, 06:43 AM
Hi

Don't know if anyone has asked this, but anyway.

How come one minute Mitchell is perfectly fine then really really sick with this virus with no inbetween. It was a really good line for me as I like Mitchell, but how come no one else got sick, Teal'c I can understand, Vala possi, but every one else.

Still thought it was a good epi, shame Vala didn't die

garhkal
August 13th, 2007, 04:17 PM
Inbetween we saw back at SG1 the doctor and crew gearing up.. that takes time... SO we are left to assume that he fell ill in that time..

John's PuddleJumper
August 14th, 2007, 12:45 AM
I suppose so, but it still would have been nice to the "down fall" off an SG-1 member, it would have been a slightly better story line for me.

Cascade
September 4th, 2007, 03:52 AM
I only properly noticed this today, when I paid attention to the new opening credits, and when it was in this ep too - the new wormhole-travelling graphics! It looks very snazzy. :D This episode was good. The Ori are so evil. :S :hallowed: (I love this smiley, hehe. :P)

Corpze
October 18th, 2007, 05:44 AM
This was excellent episode! First all that Vala-worshipping-thing and all and soon she was in jail :P And that Mal Doran thing was so hilarious :D

After people got sick, I think, this ep wasn't so big joke anymore. Prior came in and started to do his tricks. Then I first noticed that Vala actually cares about someone else than just herself. Well, mostly about herself, but still..

This ep was also once again good example of Prior's powers. I knew they can cure a disease, but that revival thing was something even I couldn't expect despite my lively imagination.

Well, I'll just have to accept that Ori and their Priors really are much more powerful than I thought. I was actually kind of waiting for some worse enemy, but if these guys can "control the death" I think there can't be much more worse enemies, can there? Not in SG-1, but I'll try Atlantis after finishing SG-1.

Ok.. Whole ep in itself was quite wonderful, not as good as "Avalon Part1&Part2", "Origin" and "The Ties That Bind", but still very intriguing experience.

I'd say 8/10 points, if I had to rate this ep.

SG1FanOregon
August 5th, 2008, 05:20 PM
This was a great ep for Vala & showed she has real feelings and serious potential as a member of the SGC. She really cared & felt responsible for the villagers :vala:

EvilSpaceAlien
July 6th, 2009, 04:00 PM
Vala was brilliant in this episode! Every comedic line she said was delivered perfectly and the scene when Vala is imprisoned and Mitchell comes to tell her that the villagers are holding a trial is a perfect example of that.

fazza92
July 25th, 2009, 06:15 PM
Vala was brilliant in this episode! Every comedic line she said was delivered perfectly and the scene when Vala is imprisoned and Mitchell comes to tell her that the villagers are holding a trial is a perfect example of that.

couldn't agree more.
I love Vala, she's terrific.
I haven't seen any episodes past this one (yet) as I'm watching Season 9 and 10 for the first time, but I can only hope that Vala stays a regular or recurring character throughout both series'

mrscopterdoc
April 2nd, 2010, 06:01 PM
Well, this ep was...well, it was OK. Certainly gave us an insight into how bad a$$ the Ori are, and how ingenious SG1 are gonna have to be to beat them.
Thoroughly sick of Vala and her wise cracks - and DJ and Mitchell's roll-eyed looks. It was OK the first ep, OK for the 2nd, but now wears a bit thin for me.
5/10 for this one. I have to agree. I am just not liking Vala.

Iawen
April 15th, 2010, 02:06 PM
I really like this episode a lot. I think Vala is a great character, and I love how exasperated the guys get with her, hahaha. It was also a great episode for character growth for Vala, which was necessary to get to the next episode.

maneth
December 3rd, 2010, 10:15 PM
Vala's getting a bit better here. If she'd just tone down the sex a bit further... I hated the way those former Qetesh slaves started to worship the Ori instead.

Jae'a
April 6th, 2012, 11:49 AM
My LiveJournal post (http://jo-r-lee.livejournal.com/47594.html)

...Looks like the rewatch is getting a little less enthusiastic now... :P

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
April 6th, 2012, 03:54 PM
Another average episode.

So now, the Ori are a significant threat. And Lam is Landry's Daughter.

Monday, Sam is back (yay).

Lieutenant Sparrow
April 7th, 2012, 05:03 AM
Average ep. Vala nearly gets executed for pretending to be a Goa'uld. Naughty Vala.

Michael's acting has gotten even better this season I reckon. He has always been a good actor but now he's even better. Still not used to that facial hair.

Lam was pretty mean to Landry. I think Daniel won the battle of minds with the prior. So the prior just went ahead and played dirty by making everyone sick.

garhkal
April 7th, 2012, 10:05 AM
It would have been interesting to see what would have happened had the Prior NOT sickened everyone... Whether Vala's or Daniels words would have made a difference..

Krisz
April 7th, 2012, 11:31 AM
Yep, that Prior was definitely a bad loser! The one good bit about the Ori thing was the war of words Daniel had with them always.

Still baffles me why Vala would have an outfit with a built in Goa'uld voice synthesizer left on the planet which she lorded over when possessed by Que'tesh.

jelgate
April 8th, 2012, 03:57 PM
I liked this episode. Not because of Vala admitting her deception as potraying her time as a false god but more of the personal battle with the Prior. We did not really get that much of them in Origin so this was a nice follow up to see Daniel and the Prior to have a war of words on the basis of religion. I felt like it helped raise a lot of questions and answers on why the Ori act why they do and how far they will go to get people to worship them. How dedicated the Ori are to getting people to worship them, has the plague the Prior unleashed making sense. I just have trouble relating this plague to the Ancient plague and making it of Ori origin. It doesn't make sense historical when the Ancient plague started. One thing I love about these later seasons is how less episodic Stargate is. The episode doesn't end on a good note or really end. The Ori have won this planet and we still don't know how to fight this disease. It makes for suspensful and entertaining television.

hedwig
April 8th, 2012, 04:49 PM
Yep, that Prior was definitely a bad loser! The one good bit about the Ori thing was the war of words Daniel had with them always.

Still baffles me why Vala would have an outfit with a built in Goa'uld voice synthesizer left on the planet which she lorded over when possessed by Que'tesh.

I would like to know where that voice thingy was stashed in that outfit. There didn't seem to be much to the outfit. Other than the boots she was wearing, which were pretty substantial and definitely didn't go with the dress. :p

garhkal
April 10th, 2012, 01:18 PM
Yep, that Prior was definitely a bad loser! The one good bit about the Ori thing was the war of words Daniel had with them always.

Still baffles me why Vala would have an outfit with a built in Goa'uld voice synthesizer left on the planet which she lorded over when possessed by Que'tesh.

Perhaps she felt that in her runnings around after the Tok'ra remove Que'tesh, she felt he needed something to fall back on for appearance sake..


The episode doesn't end on a good note or really end. The Ori have won this planet and we still don't know how to fight this disease. It makes for suspensful and entertaining television.

That to me is one of the biggest reasons i loved S9 and 10.. for the first time we were not just the underdogs but at a massive disadvantage...

Matt G
April 14th, 2012, 02:24 PM
I'd actually given up on SG1 at this point so this isn't technically a Rewatch for me...

1. "Anyone that's trusts 'you' is in grave danger" :)

2. I'd actually thought this was a flashback ep, I didn't think Vala would actually be posing as Qetesh in the present day.

3. Using Goa'uld powers as a weapon for good...show's how desperate our guys are getting.

4. And here's where we find out Landry and Lam are father and daughter. Of course having seen most of S10 I already knew this.

5. Did not expect the former administrator to show up again - presume he must have been briefed by the Doci about Daniel.

6. Our guys got taken to the cleaners...spectacularly. HS!

Good ep though.

Matt G
April 17th, 2012, 10:17 AM
As for whether Jack would have improved SG1's chances, I'm not sure I mean yeah he would have been an Earth wire for Daniel but would that have really made must of a difference?

Cluas
February 11th, 2013, 10:38 PM
This seemed average to me. The whole Vala-is-a-god story didn't do it for me.

And I just don't like the way her character was written in, to start with.

We found out the Ori made the plague that killed off the Ancients.
:docianime15:

Baron Of Hell
August 11th, 2013, 11:48 AM
A oddball episode with half funny half serious moments but I liked it. I didn't pick up on the fact the Ori created the virus. I'm going back and fourth between this and SGA and they stated the vampires didn't create the virus. I guess it make sense the Ori did. What doesn't make sense is why the Ori aren't in the Pegasus galaxy.

The B story with the general and his daughter was kind of boring. I don't really like either character. I liked both actors on different shows so its not them just these characters.

Don't understand why Tealc was on this episode. I thought he had better things to do like leading his people. Obviously I like Tealc just thought it was strange to have him here with no real reason to why.

MniatureAddict
May 8th, 2015, 02:53 PM
So did we ever find out why Daniel and Teal'c weren't infected? I dont know why Vala wasn't, but im guessing that Daniel and Teal'c weren't infected because they went through a similar experience back in S6 or something? But then again, the whole talk of the disease or whatever it was called mutating kind of made me confused, so i just totally stopped thinking about it.


Does Mitchell have the Ancient gene that makes him especially susceptible to the [Pri]Ori bio-attack where otherwise they weren't targeting the Tau'ri?

MniatureAddict
May 8th, 2015, 04:08 PM
Still baffles me why Vala would have an outfit with a built in Goa'uld voice synthesizer left on the
planet which she lorded over when possessed by Que'tesh.

She mentioned that AFTER the Tok'ra removed the symbiote, most of Quetechs' holdings found out and dropped her, except this tiny mining colony, so she came back (with a voice modulator built into her dress, right at the collar) to play Goddess while reassessing what to do with herself. This was her last base where she could pose as a Quetesh. Note, they took out the mass torture and mass murder charges once that was cleared up (but she still kept them mining what little naquadah was left) So, not quite as nice of a despot as Millbourne, but definitely not as sadistic as a goa'uld.

hedwig
May 11th, 2015, 10:34 AM
Does Mitchell have the Ancient gene that makes him especially susceptible to the [Pri]Ori bio-attack where otherwise they weren't targeting the Tau'ri?

No. Mitchell doesn't have the ancient gene.

garhkal
May 11th, 2015, 04:42 PM
I really wish they would have put something out showing exactly who did and who didn't have the ancient gene..

Anja
October 17th, 2015, 10:48 AM
Vala the impressive goddess - liked that.
Mitchell and Dr Lam - could have become interesting, unfortunately it didn't.
The Ori are almighty, that's really frightening.(They seem to be at least, I know they aren't)

garhkal
October 18th, 2015, 10:56 PM
It would have been interesting had they gone and had Lam and Cam get together..