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GateWorld
April 27th, 2004, 10:26 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s3/311.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/graphics/311.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#666666">DISCUSS ...</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0066BF"><B>PAST AND PRESENT</B></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 311</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
SG-1 discovers a planet of people with amnesia, and a familiar enemy returns to the S.G.C. wearing an unfamiliar face.

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SeaBee
June 12th, 2004, 02:10 AM
Interesting story. It was nice to see the return of Linea, a good tie up of a loose end.

Liebestraume
June 17th, 2004, 09:36 PM
Back in Prisoners, we were never told what made Linea the mass murderer that she had been -- was it predisposition or experience? If she were criminally inclined, then surely erasing her memories would not have compeletly eradicated that threat. I felt this episode touched upon, yet ultimately failed to explore, an interesting subject.

Newbie
June 18th, 2004, 01:32 AM
well she lost her memory before that...and looked what she did...she basicaly was the leader of her people..and a doctor and a scientist at the same time...so may be ppl around her tought her other threats

Liebestraume
June 20th, 2004, 04:05 PM
well she lost her memory before that...and looked what she did...she basicaly was the leader of her people..and a doctor and a scientist at the same time...so may be ppl around her tought her other threats
I am not sure, but are you saying Vyusians had good reasons to trust Linea? Well, of course they do.

My question was whether or not SGC should trust her just as readily, since they knew her criminal past but (presumably) not why. If she were actually "born that way," then the memory loss would not change her nature any more than it would her genius or charisma -- she was a leader and a scientist in both episodes.

stargate barbie
June 20th, 2004, 04:34 PM
my big problem with this episode was keira. not linea, but keira, and especially daniels relationship with her. they could have explained why he started that a bit better. or at all for that matter.
the episode did have its great moments though. loved the scene in carters lab when jack put his hands over his ears and started humming because he didn't want to hear bad news. and did carter remind anyone else of samantha from bewitched when she said "wwell..."?
i like that they actually followed up on the whole linea thing though. maybe they could have done it a smidge better, but what we got didn't completely suck. in my opinion.

Newbie
June 20th, 2004, 09:39 PM
I am not sure, but are you saying Vyusians had good reasons to trust Linea? Well, of course they do.

My question was whether or not SGC should trust her just as readily, since they knew her criminal past but (presumably) not why. If she were actually "born that way," then the memory loss would not change her nature any more than it would her genius or charisma -- she was a leader and a scientist in both episodes.


Well the ppl on the planet trusted her...and when SG1 first met her on Vyusian they trusted her...so i guess...they could trust her..not having original memories

Liebestraume
June 22nd, 2004, 09:47 PM
... not linea, but keira, ...
But that's the interesting question, isn't it? ;) Is she a entirely different person solely because of her altered memory? Or, to ask a slightly broader question, is a person nothing more than his/her memories? The episode kind of glosses over this point, and I thought this was the only flaw of an otherwise clever story.

stargate barbie
June 23rd, 2004, 04:54 PM
But that's the interesting question, isn't it? ;) Is she a entirely different person solely because of her altered memory? Or, to ask a slightly broader question, is a person nothing more than his/her memories? The episode kind of glosses over this point, and I thought this was the only flaw of an otherwise clever story.
i think that's part of my problem. i didn't feel any of the original linea's personality come through in keira. i think perhaps the actress should have looked at and studied the original linea in "prisoners". just because keira has different memories and experiences, she must still have the same basic personality a who she once was. the other's in the episode who had also lost their memory didn't alter their personalities.
she wasn't a different person, she was the same person with a different past (or to be more acurate, practically no past).

am i explaining this right?

Liebestraume
June 23rd, 2004, 06:48 PM
am i explaining this right?
Yep. :)

Madeleine
June 23rd, 2004, 10:44 PM
she wasn't a different person, she was the same person with a different past (or to be more acurate, practically no past).



I believe that our pasts are what makes us who we are. It didn't seem at all untoward that Keira seemed very different to Linnea.

My theory: Linnea initially wanted to help her people too. Maybe she was brought up to believe that the people on the other continent were evil, subhuman, a threat to her own people or whatever. Somehow her upbringing and experiences convinced her that mass murder was acceptable. She was doing it for what she thought to be good reasons; "this will ensure the safety and supremacy of my country" rather than "mwahaha, I'm an evil genius, I'm going to become a mass murderer today!"

Keira had the memories only of someone who did good, surrounded by benign people and friends who loved her. Linnea had memories of harsh times in prison and of killing lots of people, and perhaps of her eyes opening to what she had done and the horror of it. She might have had memories of wars and suchlike from all through her life. That's enough to account for a lot of difference between them, to me.

Liebestraume
June 24th, 2004, 07:24 PM
I believe that our pasts are what makes us who we are.
On the other hand, I think "nature" also has a hand in a person's character make-up. There is no definitive answer as to which school of thoughts is "right," as I am sure a good case could be made for each. It would have been better, IMHO, if the show had provided some "canon" back story to explain Linea's "evilness" -- like your theory did -- so there could be this type of discussion.

Madeleine
June 25th, 2004, 03:36 AM
Yes you're right, both schools of thought do have plenty of supporting evidence. I believe the two theories aren't completely contradictory, especially as the degree to which a person can be influenced by their experiences might in itself be genetic.

If upbringing *does* matter, then it would make sense that really dramatic events make the most difference. If anything really dramatic did happen to Linnea, then that would have implications for why Keira is very different. But perhaps waking up clueless and bereft of memories is a major enough event to shape a personality, perhaps I've been looking at this from the wrong direction.

I was trying to spot similarities in Linnea and Kiera. Apart from the obvious inclination towards scientific research, I only found one: her 'nature' seems to be to adopt a central role without being an actual leader - in both of the episodes where we meet her she has established herself as an important and sage member of the society, and even as the most powerful person in the group, but to eschew the actual wielding of the power on a day-to-day basis. The difference comes with how others see her. In Prisoners that trait got her respect through fear, but in this ep the people around her would have been so grateful for anyone acting like they knew what to do that she achieved respect through gratitude. In each case the attitudes of her cohorts towards her and of her to them would have fed off each other, leaving Linnea isolated and Keira embraced.

GateGipsy
June 25th, 2004, 04:34 AM
Interestingly I'm near the end of reading Nature via Nurture by Matt Ridley which addresses just this subject. Having majored in Psychology at university, I was never happy with the idea that it should be either/or - either nature was responsible or nurture. I think that commonsense shows it is always going to be a mix of both. Any parent knows that a child has a definite personality from the time they're born. And as hard as you might try to treat them equally, little boys and little girls are always going to have very different characteristics.

Matt Ridley takes it a step further and puts forward a good argument that not only does nature influence nurture (born with a sporting 'gene'? then you're likely to seek out sporting environments) but that nurture influences nature. Gene's switch on and off throughout our lives. He argues that our environment could act with a gene or could cause a gene to switch on if certain conditions are met.

That is something that would explaine Linea/Kira quite well I think. Kira, without the experiences that Linea had, did not have psychotic tendancies. So perhaps, she was born with the tendancy to want to destroy as many people as possible, but that on it's own wasn't enough. She also maybe had to undergo some significant trauma in her early life in order to 'activate' that tendancy. Since Kira has no 'early' life, she should remain fairly safe. It should be too late for her to be affected by anything to that degree now. As long as she doesn't get her memory back that is!

stargate barbie
June 26th, 2004, 06:23 PM
ya know you guys are starting to make me rethink my linnea/keira thoughts. i'm going to have to watch the episode again to try to reevaluate the character... again. :)
but i still didn't like her hair, or how daniel jumped into a relationship with her. ;)

Liebestraume
June 26th, 2004, 07:17 PM
Gene's switch on and off throughout our lives. He argues that our environment could act with a gene or could cause a gene to switch on if certain conditions are met.
This is a fascinating theory, and thanks for sharing. I can only assume the sequence of these on/off events makes a difference as well. (I think I'll look up the book later on Amazon. :))

Suppose Linea's complete memory loss had provided the tabula rasa. A favorable environment then switched on the "good" gene(s), which in turn fed the closed-loop of nature and nurture. The Kira personality finally emerged as the result of this process. Now that Kira has experienced a happy childhood (i.e., her earliest memories), will she still turn into the evil genius if Linea's memory resurfaces? Seems it depends on if behavior is determined by the genes or by the order in which they switch on and off.

The episode has Kira choose to bury Linea's memory -- or so SGC has been convinced ;) -- but I forgot if she did it for a clear conscience or to ward off the evil in her nature.

Major Clanger
June 27th, 2004, 06:05 AM
...but i still didn't like her hair, or how daniel jumped into a relationship with her. ;)
I hate her hair, but that's neither here nor there.

What's wrong with Daniel jumping into a relationship? That seems to me to be how Daniel is. He is on the rebound (from Sha're's death), and here is a woman who trusts him - what's to stop him falling for her?

Selmak
July 10th, 2004, 08:43 PM
That evil chick is back.

Selmak
July 15th, 2004, 07:18 PM
This wasn't one of my favorites.

Selmak
July 26th, 2004, 07:08 PM
Her relationship with daniel was interesting... just after his wife died too.

Wyrminarrd
August 18th, 2004, 07:28 AM
Now I rather liked this episode, it had a good story and they played it out very well.

I also like that they finally told us what had happened to the woman from Prisoners, I always like it when shows remind us thar they do remember what happened earlier and don´t just forget about things.

THE BIG UNIT
September 6th, 2004, 03:43 AM
I cant really place why i dislike this episode so much. I think its Kira, Even though i dont Like the Idea of Daniel Going for a new girl right after Shar'e's demise, we dont know how long it was since she died. Or maybe Kira was a way to help Daniel stay in denial or recover. I dont know, That wasn't the reason i disliked her, maybe it was the Hair! (in other words i dont know why i dislike her i just do) Probably the Episode i dislike the most.

I have not seen it in a while maybe if i watch it again i will change my mind

LMichelle
November 3rd, 2004, 04:45 PM
It was a good ep, but I have a real problem with Daniel liking Ke'ra after we watched him grieve for his wife the previous week. He does make a mention of it in the episode, but the relationship between them seems forced. Had they taken the attraction out between the characters, it might have been better.

MS said that the shooting schedule had problems, forcing this ep to air after FIAD. He didn't like it either that Daniel was kissing another women shortly after Sha're's death. :eek:

Could they have found a worse wig to put on Megan Leitch? (Ke'ra) That was awful. In X-Files her hair was a brown red. I don't know what color it was during the filming of this ep, but anything had to have been better than that wig. Sheesh. :rolleyes:

blueiris
November 3rd, 2004, 08:31 PM
I really like this episode.

But, I have a question. If all the old people became younger, what happened to the people already that age (30's or so) and what happened to the children? Each time I see this episode, when it's over I wonder if I missed that part again.

Major Clanger
November 4th, 2004, 11:13 AM
I really like this episode.

But, I have a question. If all the old people became younger, what happened to the people already that age (30's or so) and what happened to the children? Each time I see this episode, when it's over I wonder if I missed that part again.
I've just finished watching this. The children are explained away by the pesticide: they simply had not had children for around 20 years.

The old people all turned young again - although thinking about it, the younger ones should have gone back further to "childhood" but then, the wee chappie mentioned that he and his wife had been married for 43 years, so maybe everyone was over 60 to begin with.

I also especially watched out for Daniel talking about Sha're. He said at first that he'd only just lost his wife, then checked and revised that to he'd lost her a long time ago. Actually, that's an important awakening for Daniel: he actually lost Sha're when the Goa'uld took her, not when her body died.

The ep is growing on me, but Kiera's hair really really gets on my nerves so much that I don't think it will ever be one of my favourites.

Madeleine
November 4th, 2004, 11:31 AM
It's not uncommon for people who are bereaved with a lot of notice to 'move on' more quickly than those who lose their partner suddenly. My next door neighbour, my uncle, Paul McCartney and Nigella Lawson, each totally devoted to their partners for many many years, all remarried or got seriously reattatched within a year of losing their partners to cancer. It doesn't speak to me of lack of respect or love for the deceased, but of them having done their grieving and mourning before the death, and with the support of their partner. It might well be an easier way to mourn, and leave the survivor more ready to heal.

blueiris
November 4th, 2004, 11:33 AM
I've just finished watching this. The children are explained away by the pesticide: they simply had not had children for around 20 years.

The old people all turned young again - although thinking about it, the younger ones should have gone back further to "childhood" but then, the wee chappie mentioned that he and his wife had been married for 43 years, so maybe everyone was over 60 to begin with.

Now I need to go back and watch for that pesticide reference.
If there hadn't been any children for a long time, and everyone was "older," I would have thought they would have mentioned that the human race was becoming extinct on their planet. In the journals or notes or somewhere, it seems someone would have written this down. But I guess that's the only explanation. And the pictures of children would have all had to been from a much earlier time, and unless the culture had'nt changed much in the last 40 or 50 years, it seems they would notice all the childrens pictures were from an earlier time. Not a particularily bright people. Unless, of course I'm still missing something.

Lord Zedd
November 4th, 2004, 11:36 AM
Her relationship with daniel was interesting... just after his wife died too.
yeah I noticed it too that there was some chemestry in the air but I think it was a bit too soon and that the fans of Daniel Jacksob would be very angry with this
Just a thought he

Vapor
November 4th, 2004, 11:47 AM
(*looks around*)

Whoa, I didn't even notice this place. You mods are really covering all the bases here, aren't you? I'll just re-post this here then:

My problem with this episode is that they show Daniel in a flirty relationship with some other chick directly after the episode in which his wife gets blasted to death.

I mean, I know she's "been gone a long time" but it just felt a little strange to see him not only get flirty with her, but then go so far as to kiss her too.

I'm happy that they at least did mention that he was still getting over what had happened, but I just think it was a bit too soon to do anything like that.

Mr Prophet
November 4th, 2004, 12:00 PM
I'm happy that they at least did mention that he was still getting over what had happened, but I just think it was a bit too soon to do anything like that.

I thought this at first, but there are several ways in which Daniel's loss is atypical. Certainly, it's not accurate to say that he's 'just lost' Sha're.

Sha're has effectively been gone for almost three years; even if he never quite gave up hope, he has been alone for that time. In addition, a lot of the initial pain and shock of the loss was cushioned by the events of Forever in a Day; he's already lost her, got her back and said goodbye several times over by the time she actually dies.

And he's still better than Teal'c the romantic goldfish.

Major Clanger
November 4th, 2004, 12:14 PM
Now I need to go back and watch for that pesticide reference.
If there hadn't been any children for a long time, and everyone was "older," I would have thought they would have mentioned that the human race was becoming extinct on their planet. In the journals or notes or somewhere, it seems someone would have written this down. But I guess that's the only explanation. And the pictures of children would have all had to been from a much earlier time, and unless the culture had'nt changed much in the last 40 or 50 years, it seems they would notice all the childrens pictures were from an earlier time. Not a particularily bright people. Unless, of course I'm still missing something.
For once I find myself defending the PTB for some stuff. So I think the trick with this ep is to ignore a lot of the twaddle and concentrate on the main event. ;)

They did mention that they had been on the brink of a clataclysm (sp?) and that due to the pesticide no children had been born for at least 20 years (I'd go back and check but my tv is unaccountably occupied with football)

This was information that Kiera had gleaned from the library room and the notes of Dead-Dr-Whatshisface.

It does not, however, explain - as you mentioned - the total lack of photographs. So... try this (really, it works for me): they mentioned that they had photographs of the elders, but not the children. They also didn't mention photographs of younger adults, and absolutely not even a passing reference to any pictures of any children at all.

Bear with me.

My conclusion is that Photography only became widespread within the past 20 years - maybe even more recently. In that time no children had been born, so hence no baby photos.

This is why there are absolutely no photos apart from the elders.

If that makes any sense at all, I'll eat my h*t. :p

Madeleine
November 4th, 2004, 12:16 PM
You'd better have some hair-gel then.

Major Clanger
November 4th, 2004, 12:40 PM
MODS!
I'm being stalked by a maniac with hair gel....

Mr Prophet
November 4th, 2004, 12:48 PM
MODS!
I'm being stalked by a maniac with hair gel....

By a mod with hair gel. There's no escape.

Major Clanger
November 4th, 2004, 12:56 PM
oh drat - I just remembered.

We are the mods...

Lord Zedd
November 4th, 2004, 01:04 PM
oh drat - I just remembered.

We are the mods...
you have forgotten you are a mod???

Major Clanger
November 4th, 2004, 01:14 PM
you have forgotten you are a mod???
nah, not really. It would be difficult to forget our Mod SuperPowers. What with wearing the boots, the tights, the cloak and the mask each time we log on.

Speaking of mods, however, perhaps we should nudge this back on topic.

Kiera had a latent ability, inherited or residual from Linnea I presume, as a chemist/doctor/general purpose genius. I can't remember how long it was since the thingy (whatever they called it) which wiped all their memories, but in that short time, Kiera had remembered enough to start helping Sam and Janet make the cure for the amnesia.

So what's to guarantee that she won't recover her memory in a few weeks? Or will she constantly have to have her memories wiped?

Major Fischer
November 4th, 2004, 01:18 PM
So what's to guarantee that she won't recover her memory in a few weeks? Or will she constantly have to have her memories wiped?

I think perhaps the people of the planet are going to keep a pretty close eye on her. I rather like the theory I've heard elsewhere on the board that she's either an Aschen, or related to an Aschen.

Mr Prophet
November 4th, 2004, 01:22 PM
It was a special sort of memory loss that only blocks memories as is convenient to the plot.

Major Fischer
November 4th, 2004, 01:25 PM
It was a special sort of memory loss that only blocks memories as is convenient to the plot.

You mean like the Plot Detector in the gate that shuts the wormhole off after the last person who has to step through has gone through?

Mr Prophet
November 4th, 2004, 01:32 PM
You mean like the Plot Detector in the gate that shuts the wormhole off after the last person who has to step through has gone through?

Or the genetic memory which allows Sam to remember exactly what she needs to in order to move the plot/romantic subplot with Martouf.

Major Clanger
November 4th, 2004, 01:33 PM
It was a special sort of memory loss that only blocks memories as is convenient to the plot.
My my, we are at home to Mr. Cynical this evening!!

Actually I've remembered the thing that really annoyed me when I watched this ep.

The Stargate whooshes into life. SG-1 step through into a place that looks as though it hasn't been visited in yonks. Sam twitchs the cover off the DHD and says that it looks ok.

MEH!

Since when didn't they first send a MALP through to find the DHD?

Or is that all tied up into the Stargate Convenient Plot Point Detector?
Is cynicism contagious at all?

Madeleine
November 4th, 2004, 01:37 PM
The Plot Point Detector is the gizmo that prevents Enemy Jaffa and Supersoldiers from being able to hit a target unless the story needs one of the main characters needs to suffer a bit.

Major Clanger
November 4th, 2004, 01:47 PM
The Plot Point Detector sounds like a fab new thread to me...

Major Fischer
November 4th, 2004, 01:47 PM
The Plot Point Detector is the gizmo that prevents Enemy Jaffa and Supersoldiers from being able to hit a target unless the story needs one of the main characters needs to suffer a bit.

Is that also what keeps the supersoldiers from falling over when they need to do anything but walk in a straight line?

Lord Zedd
November 4th, 2004, 01:51 PM
I think perhaps the people of the planet are going to keep a pretty close eye on her. I rather like the theory I've heard elsewhere on the board that she's either an Aschen, or related to an Aschen.
than why and how did she got trapped in the prison.She is the destryer of world but the Ashen didn't know a lot of Stargate adresses so if she was Ashen than she couldn't go to the other planets except the very few they knew

Daniel's_twin
November 9th, 2004, 07:18 PM
I enjoyed this episode. They finished up the Laneya part of their series and gave us some good entertainment. I knew from the start that that guy who plays in Monk and that woman who was with him were married. The way they attacked each other with insults like Home Improvement, it was pretty funny. :cool:

Symobolt
November 16th, 2004, 03:39 PM
Oh, the Plot Detector!! :-) lmao

I'd like to propose another term: The Missing Line

I believe there's at least one missing line in every episode of every sci-fi show out there.

The missing lines for "Past and Present" would be:

Missing Line 1

-Right after Linea's gated to her new home world-

Hammond: Umm guys, don't you think that now we know a chemical that rejuvenates people and a chemical that safely reverses the side effect of amnesia, we could, like, use it on people and get younger and stuff?

Missing Line 2

Sam: Well I don't know, general, don't you think that would be to obvious an idea? Same as that - if Linea lost her memory and became Kira and the moment she realized there was an antidote that could bring her memory back she found a way to get it and secretly used it, she'll probably do the same thing again.

:cool:

PS: Madeleine, thank you for sharing that thing about mourning.

JackDaniels
February 7th, 2005, 11:07 AM
I like Daniel episodes I do. Except this one.

* His childish little flirty with Kira - annoying
* That this happened just after FIAD - absurd (I mean, he hasn't really had much interaction with women since and he puts most of this down to Sha're. He just buried her - would this not be the hardest time?
* Ok, so they wiped her memory so she wouldn't remember she was Linea. Were they going to stop her from innately sensing that she was a doctor or scientist like last time. Even whenshe was Kira she was v. stubborn and I find it hard to believe those wimpy ass people would be able to stop her!
* what happened to the children. The elders were now middle aged, and there was no sign of their kids. So Linea/Kira had effectievly forced a mass child murder on this population and they willingly tok her in as one of their own. How realistic.

I know I've slandered this episode pretty heavily, but I will admit that it had some good points:

- a good range of human emotions shown
- a conclusion to the Linea story (unlike the Aschen)
- Janet - I found her funny and her attitude reminded me of that which she felt towards Anise in 'Upgrades'

Madeleine
February 7th, 2005, 02:47 PM
I never saw it as a terribly bad thing that he was flirting with Kira so soon after his wife's death. I know so many people who've lost their spouses through long illnesses and hooked up with someone else within a year and sometimes even a few weeks. Paul McCartney and Nigella Lawson were both re-married within a year of being widowed. And in every single case, the original marriage had been a loving and faithful one of many years.

I think when the death comes after months or years of illness things are different from if it's sudden and unexpected. It's as if all the grieving gets done before the death. Obviously it's not the same for everyone, I'm just saying that it's not at all uncommon to be able to close that chapter of your life quite rapidly.

Daniel lost Sha're in just the same way; at the end of a long period during which he had hoped she would be recovered but pretty much knew she might be lost for ever. He got to speak with her twice during her posession, and that must have helped. And he was surely happier with the outcome than he had feared he might be - the worst case scenario would have been that she spent thousands of years as a host, and he'd saved her from that.

I don't think people *shouldn't* have a problem with PP for this reason, but this is why *I* don't.

JackDaniels
February 7th, 2005, 03:26 PM
I never saw it as a terribly bad thing that he was flirting with Kira so soon after his wife's death. I know so many people who've lost their spouses through long illnesses and hooked up with someone else within a year and sometimes even a few weeks. Paul McCartney and Nigella Lawson were both re-married within a year of being widowed. And in every single case, the original marriage had been a loving and faithful one of many years.

I think when the death comes after months or years of illness things are different from if it's sudden and unexpected. It's as if all the grieving gets done before the death. Obviously it's not the same for everyone, I'm just saying that it's not at all uncommon to be able to close that chapter of your life quite rapidly.

Daniel lost Sha're in just the same way; at the end of a long period during which he had hoped she would be recovered but pretty much knew she might be lost for ever. He got to speak with her twice during her posession, and that must have helped. And he was surely happier with the outcome than he had feared he might be - the worst case scenario would have been that she spent thousands of years as a host, and he'd saved her from that.

I don't think people *shouldn't* have a problem with PP for this reason, but this is why *I* don't.

I don't have a problem with him getting over Sha're in this way and flirting with someone else is fine, but in the perspective of the other 5 seasons, he has often implied that the memory of Sha're has hindered him from any other romantic opportunities (and he has had a few!) so I found it odd that they put one in so quick, seemingly just to serve the story.

Mr Prophet
February 8th, 2005, 09:47 AM
I don't have a problem with him getting over Sha're in this way and flirting with someone else is fine, but in the perspective of the other 5 seasons, he has often implied that the memory of Sha're has hindered him from any other romantic opportunities (and he has had a few!) so I found it odd that they put one in so quick, seemingly just to serve the story.

As he says in the thing, he lost her a long time ago; Sha're dying was almost liberating for him.

That or he was just on the rebound.

kelmah
February 8th, 2005, 12:30 PM
At first I thought it was kinda weird for Daniel to have a relationship so soon after Sha're died, but after reading the other posts here, I don't really have such a problem with it. But really, how hard would it have been to stick this ep in later in the season?

Hex.FTB.enabled
February 16th, 2005, 09:16 AM
I never saw it as a terribly bad thing that he was flirting with Kira so soon after his wife's death. I know so many people who've lost their spouses through long illnesses and hooked up with someone else within a year and sometimes even a few weeks. Paul McCartney and Nigella Lawson were both re-married within a year of being widowed. And in every single case, the original marriage had been a loving and faithful one of many years.

I think when the death comes after months or years of illness things are different from if it's sudden and unexpected. It's as if all the grieving gets done before the death. Obviously it's not the same for everyone, I'm just saying that it's not at all uncommon to be able to close that chapter of your life quite rapidly.

Daniel lost Sha're in just the same way; at the end of a long period during which he had hoped she would be recovered but pretty much knew she might be lost for ever. He got to speak with her twice during her posession, and that must have helped. And he was surely happier with the outcome than he had feared he might be - the worst case scenario would have been that she spent thousands of years as a host, and he'd saved her from that.

I don't think people *shouldn't* have a problem with PP for this reason, but this is why *I* don't.

Hmm. Never thought of that. I guess my issue was that I wish they'd used Daniels attraction to Kira to explore those feelings about Sha're, instead it seemed like a plot point to move the story along. Even it had been for some time for Daniel, for us viewers it had been a week and I found myself thinking "surely the writers coulda been a bit more attentive to that." (Or maybe I'm just selfish. Entirely possible. :D)

The nature vs. nurture conversation is interesting. I think it has to be some of both. Kira seems so sweet, but when she remembers Linnea's past she says that there's a part of her that would pratically enjoy watching people die. That to me says *evil* not just a product of the environment.

Anyways, I still liked it. At least they tied up a loose end big enough to be called "The Destroyer of Worlds" instead of letting it fall down the Plot Black Hole.

kelmah
February 17th, 2005, 01:08 PM
yea- kinda inapropriate

kelmah
February 17th, 2005, 01:12 PM
crap.

ignore me.

i'm operating on 3.5 hrs. sleep

*falls forward and forehead hits the keyboard*

Daniel's_twin
February 17th, 2005, 01:35 PM
crap.

ignore me.

i'm operating on 3.5 hrs. sleep

*falls forward and forehead hits the keyboard*

That's Ok. We've all had days (or nights) operating on low sleep. We forgive you. :cool:

Hex.FTB.enabled
February 17th, 2005, 01:40 PM
*hands kelmah a pillow* :)

alz0rz
February 17th, 2005, 02:41 PM
*hands kelmah a pillow* :)

I hear that the color of a pillow is very important :) ;) :p

fair_nymph
March 12th, 2005, 05:50 AM
I too disliked the wig tremendously. It just seemed so obviously a wig.

The pesticide seems like a great idea for an anti-aging drug, seeing as the amnesiac side effect can be reversed. I'm sure the goa'uld would love to get their hands on it...

I foung the romance between Daniel and Keira both arousing and annoying. Mentally, I thought it was a bit cheesy and out of place, but in my gut I recognized their mutual attraction and found the scene quite hot. My assumption, from the scene, was that they slept together.

SmartFox
March 17th, 2005, 10:54 AM
Back in Prisoners, we were never told what made Linea the mass murderer that she had been -- was it predisposition or experience? If she were criminally inclined, then surely erasing her memories would not have compeletly eradicated that threat. I felt this episode touched upon, yet ultimately failed to explore, an interesting subject.

I agree totally there. I've always wonder why she was the mass murderer she was and they don't tell us why. Glad we got to see Linnea again and have a follow up to an episode for once. I knew almost immediatly Keira was Linnea. They made that pretty obvious.

QuiGonJohn
May 7th, 2005, 02:58 PM
Or will she constantly have to have her memories wiped?

They better hook up with MIB and get a flashy thingy!

I liked this episode. I thought Kera might have been Linnea when she was so eager to be a volunteer and go through the Stargate, also she was a bit anxious to get outside. Of course, that thinking on my part was that she was conscious of who she was, (maybe transferred her soul into Kera's body). Because at this point we did not yet know the elders had become young.

When I first say her, I thought Kera was Amanda Tapping, (that we were going to have another alternate Sam or something). But closer looks I could tell it wasn't, although they did look very similar. Then I thought maybe one of the "elder women" was going to be Sam, and Kera her daughter.

Perriman33
August 10th, 2005, 06:51 AM
It was a great episode, quite a few mysteries for SG1 to unravel, and it was good to think alongside them in an episode and try to guess what had happened. I think straight-away that keira might be linnea but it was still well played out and got daniel confused (loved up). :)
The only thing that seemed a bit odd was the ending which was over quite quickly. It didn't really tie up any loose ends....oh well should be used to that by now! ;)

Stricken
September 8th, 2005, 03:35 AM
who'd have thought that Linae would come back after so many storries that have left an opening for another but never happened

Ascendant
September 8th, 2005, 07:25 PM
Like most people, I disliked Keira's hair.
Unlike most people, I immediately accepted that Danny was on the rebound.

Not one of the best episodes. Zero action episodes get knocked to the bottom of the list, along with episodes that don't have any exotic worlds. I didn't really like Prisoners, either. It didn't seem to warrant a sequel. I did like that guy they brought back to the SGC, though, and his wife. Their bickering was funny, and she was beautiful. The overall concept really was well thought-out, it just happened to be a NonEpisode.

Meh. The whole thing was kind of anticlimactic after FIAD. It would have been more fun to see Daniel going out to carve up the Goa'uld in a haze of vengeance. I know it's in him, and he's pretty danged good with dual pistols.

walter_MacChevron
September 15th, 2005, 08:56 PM
Yeah......... it was pretty cool to see the layout of the city in the beginning.........anybody know why the actress from "prisoners" could not return?

Metarock Sam
September 27th, 2005, 02:01 PM
She was much too younger they couldnt have used the same actress.

Darkstar
April 6th, 2006, 03:12 AM
ok as a follow up, just watched it again, don't understand why they would just let her go, the episode should have been called "the changing face of evil" thats more appropriate, but not a bad try and a desent 40 minutes of stargate so ok :D

captain jake
May 5th, 2006, 05:16 PM
Because now she can start her life all over again!!

Sheppard
July 19th, 2006, 11:15 PM
yeah great episode follow on from prisoners

OrangeShipper
December 10th, 2006, 02:34 PM
The whole issue of memory and amnesia confuses me... As some of you have pointed out, what exactly IS memory, and how much of who we are is it?

I actually didn't think of that in terms of character though (as in, is Keira INHERENTLY evil, or is she not because the evil part was only in her memory?). The thing I thought was in terms of language, culture and all the rest. To me, memory contains the things we have LEARNT (including experiences). Like, we learn to read, and we learn language - or is that just inherent knowledge, which is different? Basically, what I'm saying is, directly after the individual wakes up with NO memory, shouldn't that mean they don't know anything? Like language, or what things are, or how to use items and all that kinda stuff?

Does any of that make sense....?

Other than that, I loved this episode (apart from the whole Keira/Daniel thing.). It was a neat idea, good tying up loose ends, it had funny moments (the bickering of that couple and Jacks humming, teeheeheeeee!!!), it dealt with some cool issues. Yeah, I liked it, I'm just being nit-picky!

Oh - LOVE the idea of the Plot Point Device thing!! I TOTALLY agree with it about the gate shutting off - likewise how whenever SG-1 dies, there just happens to be someone or something able to bring them back. How convenient... =D

Harlan's Speechwriter
May 14th, 2007, 10:32 PM
This was a clever, thought provoking episode. The Kiera/Linea story raises a lot of issues about nature vs nurture, and it was good to see a resolution to the 'Linea issue'. I wonder, though, if we will see her again, and whether the risk will have paid off; clearly, she is very skilled and intelligent, and of great value to her people, if the evil does not surface again.

I was, at first, susprised to see Daniel entering a relationshio so soon after Sha're, but then again, I guess it's natural; he must feel in real need of some love and affection after losing his wife, from whom he'd been parted for so long.

Crichiel
January 22nd, 2008, 08:52 AM
I also didn't like that Daniel jumped into this relationship so fast, but 1) it could be a rebound thing and 2) I know it wasn't filmed like that and even MS was disappointed with the airing order, so I can overlook it for now. But, besides that, I didn't believe the relationship. Just because Daniel hasn't ever jumped into romantic relationships, before or since. It seemed completely against his nature. And I didn't think this Linea had any qualities that would explain him making this the exception.

Also, WAS that a wig on Megan Leitch? Her hair on X-Files and on the SGA episode in S4 seemed just like it (just darker on The X-Files). I thought it was her real hair!:S

captain jake
June 30th, 2008, 04:49 AM
Great Episode!

The Dargol is a very interesting substance, the Vyans would have ceased to exist if Linea hadn't stumbled upon the "Vorlex". If she hadn't come they would have died of old age and their would be no one to carry on their civilization. I liked the husband and wife chatter between Orner and Layale. They made the right decision by allowing Linea to go back to Vyus, I think she could really help them get their civilization back on track.

HelloVelo
July 3rd, 2008, 10:44 PM
It's interesting to compare this episode to the Michael story arc in Atlantis.

My Rating: 9/10

Full Review: http://stargatesummer.blogspot.com/2008/07/past-and-present.html

captain jake
July 4th, 2008, 01:28 AM
It's interesting to compare this episode to the Michael story arc in Atlantis.

My Rating: 9/10

Full Review: http://stargatesummer.blogspot.com/2008/07/past-and-present.html

I never really thought about it, but you're right the situations are very similar. The difference being that Linea most likely will live out her life without the knowledge of her previous life. If you believe Nurture supersedes Nature than Linea is could be essentially good.

garhkal
July 4th, 2008, 09:33 AM
Plus she seemed to WANT to go that route, rather than trn back into her evil old self.

captain jake
July 4th, 2008, 11:19 AM
Plus she seemed to WANT to go that route, rather than trn back into her evil old self.

Well it doesn't really matter what she wanted, all of those feelings are gone.

L E E
July 9th, 2008, 11:35 PM
Kira/Linnea retained her scientific expertise but not her personality? Is this really possible when one has amnesia? I thought that when one has amnesia, one's personality will stay the same. Unless that part in our brain that controls personality is affected.

I think I saw an episode of some lawyer show. An old man got into an accident and something was damaged in his brain to cause a 180 change in his personality. The old man is normally very rude and grouchy. But after the accident, he became so pleasant and happy. There was no amnesia involved.

Are they sure that Kira wont remember a thing? That she wont become Linnea again?

I'm with others here who felt uncomfortable with the Daniel/Kira thing.

pritnep
August 21st, 2008, 12:00 AM
Back in Prisoners, we were never told what made Linea the mass murderer that she had been -- was it predisposition or experience?

Something I to was wondering throughout the episode, why did she hate people and want to commit mass murder and become the "The Destroyer of Worlds.". I mean we saw that after everyone was becoming suspicious of her, she wanted to find out why people seemed to distrust her and so she got the cure, nothing to stop the people of the world acting like that and her trying to find out why again.


It's interesting to compare this episode to the Michael story arc in Atlantis.

I never thought about it like that but that's an interesting point.

I like how we learned what Teal'c's name means and where it came from.

Other then that it was an ok episode but certainly not a favourite.

Black_Sheep
September 3rd, 2008, 07:08 PM
Good episode. Nothing special though. Im guessing that Kira becomes Linnea at some point again. I just had that feeling when she left through the gate. In other hand, i hope this was the end of Linnea, she is not among my favorite characters so im not really interested by what's going to happen with her.

balo
February 16th, 2009, 08:53 AM
I think it was a clever episode. At the moment we knew that Kira really was Linnea , it was abit scary to watch the rest of the episode. Her hair was scary too. ;)

Rating: 8/10

gateship15
February 21st, 2009, 10:17 PM
fantastic episode i liked the whole no memory and that evil was among them i also liked the fact that the people of the world were made young and lost there memory and also i liked that when kira found out who she was she allowed them to take her memory away again

Butlersgate
February 23rd, 2009, 03:17 PM
isn't the acress that plays her the one who plays the ancient who takes back atlantis in the return part 1? but she looks so crazy when she says "another part of me will happily watch you die!" good episode :) i just wish she appeared more.

shinysign
March 11th, 2009, 08:53 PM
This was an interesting show. First off, I thought the word "Vorlix" sounded really funny, not sure why, just thought it was funny every time they said Vorlix, until the end when it got very serious.

I actually thought they were a bit lienient towards her, all the questions have been asked - what if she goes back to the planet and recovers her memory? It shouldn't take that long, she will find it, provided she has the tools to do so.

It did bring up the question, must a person answer to crimes that they can't remember doing, and are they judging the same person, or should she be considered a completely different person?

I thought it was unfair for Daniel Jackson to compare her to Teal'c, though I realize Daniel was being rash because he really liked her. Teal'c chose out of his own freewill to join the humans, she on the other hand, simply can't remember her past but seems 'good' without her former memories.

And actually, I thought she did a really good job being similar to the original Lineas. Keep in mind, in that episode, she was really nice to them the whole time, with the occasional burst of anger, until the very end. And the young Lineas was also nice - until they started barring her out of her own research and she began to get upset, a good paralell, I thought. The reality is, no one really "knows" the original Lineas because she was putting on an act for the entire other episode, they only know what she's done.

As far as her plot goes, my guess is that planet was a 'pit stop' for her, she had aged so much in prison that she wanted to reduce her age and extend her life before going off and doing what she would normally do.

I agree the Daniel Jackson/ Lineas relationship seemed a bit forced, I think there wasn't much time in the show to develop it, and I am glad they didn't show us 30 minutes of relationship development. The point is, they liked each other, there was chemistry (though a weird chemistry and rightly so given the circumstances).

If she could lock up the entire stargate system and steal all their addresses, I have no doubt she could get her memory back, so again, I don't quite understand what they're doing sending her back, given that she could potentially destroy many worlds. Only thing I can think of is that her planet does not have the proper technology to do what they did at the stargate - but the first time they met her, she made an organic cold fusion generator out of some roots! That can't be a good sign, they underestimate her. :p

One other thing, the guy Orner who got tested on with the first medicine did a really good job with 'medical acting' and looking like he first went into a coma and then second remembered everything, and I liked his subtle argueing with his wife in the beginning, it was really funny. Stargate usually hires really good actors, you think he couldn't do a serious part as he was pretty humorous, then he goes into a coma, very well done.

Kind of mean though when they go through the stargate and Orner goes:
"Am I in one piece?"
and his wife says
"Yes Orner, one skinny little piece."
lol

Pic
March 20th, 2009, 07:15 PM
Teal'c means 'strength'.... *duh*, I coulda told you that.



http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn229/Pic-CollSwan/SGM/03X11-1.png
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn229/Pic-CollSwan/SGM/03X11-2.png
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn229/Pic-CollSwan/SGM/03X11-3.png
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn229/Pic-CollSwan/SGM/03X11-4.png


They really did screw up showing this episode immediately following the death of Sha're. It's worse when you watch them back-to-back. The disconnect is unbelievable.
OK... *handwaves the Daniel-rebound-thing

Ironic quote of the episode is when Ke'ra/Linea says "It seems to be that before the Vorlix I helped others."

How will the people keep Ke'ra from taking the antidote again once they've returned to their planet?

Hey, look at the pics above again...

one more time...
go ahead.

take another look.

psst... Daniel is hot when he smiles, isn't he?

made you look ;)

vzzzzzbx
April 11th, 2009, 05:59 PM
Probably one of the weaker episodes of season 3, IMO but I still quite enjoyed it - as usual it's the little bits of humour that help, plus the Linea story being concluded instead of just being forgotten about.

The Stig
April 25th, 2009, 02:55 PM
Bringing Linea back mwas a very good move by the writers. It tied up some loose ends. How many times must Daniel fall for the enemy. In three seasons his wife became a goauld, he fell in olove with a goauld and now he is falling for a mass murderer. He is on a role.

Ulkesh47
May 3rd, 2009, 11:22 PM
They really did screw up showing this episode immediately following the death of Sha're. It's worse when you watch them back-to-back. The disconnect is unbelievable.
I prefer to watch this episode between "Pretense" and "Urgo". This way, not only is the disconnect less severe, but it places "Jolinar's Memories" and "The Devil You Know" right in the middle of the season.

Pic
May 7th, 2009, 06:22 PM
I prefer to watch this episode between "Pretense" and "Urgo". This way, not only is the disconnect less severe, but it places "Jolinar's Memories" and "The Devil You Know" right in the middle of the season.

Yup, that would work. That would give it a few episodes between Sha're's death and Daniel flirting with a murdering chic.


Bringing Linea back mwas a very good move by the writers. It tied up some loose ends. How many times must Daniel fall for the enemy. In three seasons his wife became a goauld, he fell in olove with a goauld and now he is falling for a mass murderer. He is on a role.

Speaking of Daniel's women...

Oh and it only gets worse over the seasons, doesn't it? Poor guy has about as many bad women choices as he does deaths.

And (if you're a D/V shipper or just thinking of 'Unending') he'll end up with Vala who beats him up and goes straight for bondage the first day they meet. ;)
Seriously though, she seems to be the only one I can recall who makes a first impression of being one of the bad guys but ends up one of the good guys. All his other women seem to be the opposite.

Enosh74
June 16th, 2009, 11:36 PM
Aside from watching in horror as Daniel flirts with a women 20 minutes after I watched him bury his wife, my biggest problem with this episode is letting Keira go.
I have no problem forgiving her for what she can't remember. My problem is, if the SGC is constantly under pressure to find new technologies and justify gate travel, then wouldn't Keira's biochemistry knowledge be like finding a Holy Grail? I mean she made a cold fusion reactor out of roots and a fountain of youth out of a pesticide. Why can't we keep her in a lab on Earth (and with Daniel since he so quickly got over Shar're for her). It seems a find like Keira would keep Maybourne off they back for quite a while. I think the people of the planet they found her on would be better off without her. Not to mention it would keep her from re-discovering her true self.
As far as her true self goes, it is possible to remember the most important (as judged by your subconscious) memories relating to personality (which I believe is mostly stored in the frontal lobe), motor function, and of course in Keira's case scientific knowledge. As far as her mass murdering tendencies, when she says she has two people within it I thought that lent some credence to an argument for severe emotional trauma at a young age. It is possible that she had some evil tendencies, I like to think you don't leap to mass murderer without severe emotional trauma. After all if you agree with Eddie Izzard Hitler might have been a nice guy if he had been a better painter. ;^)
I thought the photography catch was a good one. I too assumed they had only recently brought photography to the masses and therefore only photos of old people. When they first stepped through the gate I started thinking Genni, but they're a little less developed than the Genni. Only just.

Mrs. Daniel Jackson
October 9th, 2009, 05:54 PM
i didnt like how soon after "FIAD" this was.
it didnt seem right. :S
but it did have some nice moments and i do like the episode.
extreamly unfortunate hair though!
i mean come on!
where did they buy that wig???
and more importantly they burned it after right???
:P

-Kat

Tachyon
December 20th, 2009, 12:55 AM
This is a great episode. The whole concept of person being a sum of his/hers memories is fascinating. What a great way to bring Linea back. :cool:

gateship15
December 20th, 2009, 01:18 AM
great episode i agree with u Tochyon about it being an interesting concept

mrscopterdoc
March 9th, 2010, 02:51 PM
I am split on this one. I liked the actress who plays Ke'ra/Lanea and I liked how they brought her back. Interesting twist. I just don't like Daniel falling for her in the episode right after he buries his wife. *sigh*

Girlbot
June 11th, 2010, 11:17 AM
Nice surprise this one was. I liked it for the way it weaved the story and ended it so happily

Alan Wake
June 11th, 2010, 11:26 AM
Good episode :) but a little slow.

I was surprised at the tie in to the old character. I didn't see it coming.

maneth
August 23rd, 2010, 12:09 PM
Interesting episode, and I loved seeing Linea again. However, I can't believe they let Ke'ra go! And yeah, this episode would've been better placed a bit later in the season, it was much too soon after Sha're's death.

Darkland
September 9th, 2010, 05:29 AM
Yeah agree it should have been later on in the season. Just to give it a bit of space between Sha're's death.

I'm really suspicious of how they just let Ke'ra go. It just seemed quote - considering the fact they knew she really was Linea with the memories.

Daniel falling for her was a bit random - especially given the timing of his wife's death - then again he was vulnerable but still it wasn't really a good thing to poor Daniel.

icsteffi
November 22nd, 2010, 06:23 AM
Even though the episode was super predictable, it was a heck of a lot of fun (like most!)

I like the concept of choosing to re-forget. It reminds me of Memento or something like that :) Or Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.

LeftHandedGuitarist
October 9th, 2011, 03:15 PM
My memory (that's not intended as a joke) was telling me that this was a boring episode going in, but I found myself very wrapped up in what was happening. At the same time, I don't feel I have a lot to say about it. I enjoy this one for some good character development and an intriguing setup with more and more being revealed to us as the episode continues.

- I like the actress for Ke'ra/Linea, I thought she did a great job. She was delightful. Conversely, Dr. Frasier and Carter got on my nerves a bit with the way they were treating her.

- Jack falling for another woman right after the events of the previous episode was not good planning. It feels so wrong. The suggestion seems to be that they slept together here, is that correct?

- I really liked Daniel's speech/rant in the briefing room, nice writing.

- The world "vorlix" sounds very silly, it took me out of the episode everytime somebody said it. I kept thinking of Horlicks.

- This episode feels like a new style of storytelling for the show, one that would become quite common later on SG Atlantis. It really has the feel of an Atlantis episode more than SG-1, but I think this is the one where the style originated.

RATING: 7 out of 10

syncline
October 12th, 2011, 02:00 PM
I like Ke'ra in general, but I wish she'd slowed down after Daniel told her he had just lost his wife. Her explanation was that she wanted to take the opportunity to act on her feelings before regaining her memory; but that doesn't seem to stand up against "I need some time because my wife just died".

Unrelatedly, Vyus is a pretty cool-looking place. (They have zeppelins!) Hopefully the SGC still checks in once in a while to make sure Ke'ra is still Ke'ra...

Seaboe Muffinchucker
October 12th, 2011, 07:52 PM
- Jack falling for another woman right after the events of the previous episode was not good planning. It feels so wrong. The suggestion seems to be that they slept together here, is that correct?

Jack? I believe you mean Daniel. As for whether there was sex, I believe it was deliberately vague. Those who want there to have been sex can find reasons, those who don't want there to have been sex can find reasons.

Seaboe

Krisz
October 13th, 2011, 08:26 PM
My memory (that's not intended as a joke) was telling me that this was a boring episode going in, but I found myself very wrapped up in what was happening. At the same time, I don't feel I have a lot to say about it. I enjoy this one for some good character development and an intriguing setup with more and more being revealed to us as the episode continues.

- I like the actress for Ke'ra/Linea, I thought she did a great job. She was delightful. Conversely, Dr. Frasier and Carter got on my nerves a bit with the way they were treating her.

- Jack falling for another woman right after the events of the previous episode was not good planning. It feels so wrong. The suggestion seems to be that they slept together here, is that correct?

- I really liked Daniel's speech/rant in the briefing room, nice writing.

- The world "vorlix" sounds very silly, it took me out of the episode everytime somebody said it. I kept thinking of Horlicks.

- This episode feels like a new style of storytelling for the show, one that would become quite common later on SG Atlantis. It really has the feel of an Atlantis episode more than SG-1, but I think this is the one where the style originated.

RATING: 7 out of 10

Interesting observation, I see what you mean! Jonas' home world was like that too, and they kept that feel in SGU as well in a couple of episodes.

I too noticed and was a bit taken aback by Daniel's (I believe you meant to say Daniel) allowing Ke'ra to continue kissing him and him kissing back even after telling her he was getting over the death of his wife! Huh?!!!

At least the schizophrenic 'Destroyer of Worlds' gets to keep her better half! I've always wondered what happened to make her like that, she clearly didn't want to be like that and it showed when she chose to lose her memory again.

LOL! 'Vorlix' and Horlicks...... 'Vorlix' was an odd word! More suited to those ads of middle aged couples with Cheshire Cat grins after the man took a certain tablet! :P :D

LeftHandedGuitarist
October 14th, 2011, 11:34 AM
Oops yes, I meant Daniel, of course!

dtheories
October 16th, 2011, 07:29 PM
Daniel was totally into this intergalactic babe with a brain. And, as he put it,"...I actually really lost her (Sha're) a long time ago. The fact is I don't think right now I would trust myself completely to, uh…" which, to someone as passionate and determined as Ke'ra, was an uncensored invitation!

I didn't feel like the visit to Vyus necessarily had to occur just days after they'd buried Sha're. For crying out loud! It was his first kiss as a willing participant in 3 years!

Jack plugging his ears and singing rather than hearing unwanted news was funny, though I'm not sure I understand why he had to be so cruel to Daniel telling him he'd be the first to go if Linnea's memories returned. I don't doubt he would have shot Ke'ra/Linea if Daniel had moved when ordered to.

Anyway, I thought it was a sad ep for Daniel. He's got such a huge heart and just gets crushed every time.

Lieutenant Sparrow
October 17th, 2011, 03:50 AM
Daniel annoyed me in this ep. Not something he does very often. He seemed too rash and hot headed. Out of character.

Was nice to revisit Linea though.

Matt G
October 17th, 2011, 04:47 AM
5pm and another ep of SG1...

1. Planetary-wide amnesia. Interesting.

2. Linea! Didn't think we'd ever run into her again.

3. I can see Daniel being very emotionally vulnerable at this point(and he knew it!) and we've all done stupid things in that state - therefore I can live with his behavior here.

4. Interesting that someone compared this to...(Atlantis spoilers)

The Michael situation in Atlantis

In both cases our guys ultimately tried to do the right thing. In both cases the amnesiac had to decide who/what they wanted to be. This time round it went pretty smooth.

mathpiglet
October 17th, 2011, 08:52 AM
I loved this episode.

I do wonder if the people will age again at the same rate. Will they be able to have kids? So many stories are possible to bring back Linnea and the others.

Jae'a
October 17th, 2011, 09:06 AM
My LiveJournal post (http://jo-r-lee.livejournal.com/15284.html)
Orner is Randy Disher from Monk :D
Also, the first couple of times someone said 'Dargol', I thought they said 'D'Argo', as in Farscape. :P

Good to know what happens to Linea.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
October 17th, 2011, 04:53 PM
Pretty average episode.

That one chick (the "Destroyer of Worlds," makes me think of The Doctor or Decade (one of you will understand second reference)) from that previous episode. Oh, and that guy (Randy) from Monk was in this episode.

Tomorrow, Jacob is back, and that guy, Sokar, finally appears. And let's not forget Martouf. The episode which I think, is the beginning of the "good part" of SG-1 the series.

jelgate
October 21st, 2011, 10:48 PM
The episode lacks a wow factor to me. Its not bad but it lacks anything to keep my interest. I find it interesting that the fountain of youth comes with amnesia but everything is wrapped to nicely with finding a cure and I have a hard time accepeating Hammond would agree Linea/Kera to touch dangerous chemicals despite how many aliens lives are at risk. His duty is too Earth first. Also Kera when she is cured I feel cheated we didn't see her return to psychopath ways. Instead she was going to commit suicide. Althought I liked watching Daniel talk her down. They should have shown the amnesia chemical in future episodes. Would have been a good use for fighting the Goa'uld.

Starscape91
October 27th, 2011, 07:26 PM
I didn't like this episode that much. Daniel really annoyed me in this episode in my opinon its a little to soon after Sha'res death for him to fall for Kera. I like the part where Jack didn't want to hear that Linea could have possibly survived.

Dimes
December 25th, 2011, 07:43 AM
Rebound. ;D
Okay episode, not to shabby lol

Sam-n-Jack-in-<3
July 26th, 2012, 01:42 PM
The Return of The Destroyer of Worlds! *dramatic music*

I agree that it seems way too soon to have Daniel falling for another woman, though maybe he's reaching out with a combination of his natural empathy and feeling lonely. I kind of felt sorry for him more than I was annoyed.

On a seperate note, I liked the funny moments, like Jack's 'Lalala, I can't hear you!' gag and the two people who hung out with Kira. Their being married was no big surprise, given their humorous bickering. ;)

garhkal
July 29th, 2012, 03:48 PM
Maybe it was like some people i know who bounce to another guy/gal right after a broken up relationship...

Seaboe Muffinchucker
July 30th, 2012, 08:34 AM
I agree that it seems way too soon to have Daniel falling for another woman, though maybe he's reaching out with a combination of his natural empathy and feeling lonely. I kind of felt sorry for him more than I was annoyed

What, you don't think almost three years is long enough? Because while Sha're hasn't been dead long, Daniel lost her a long time ago.

Seaboe

garhkal
July 30th, 2012, 11:57 AM
Depends.. I know some who have gotten into relationships after losing someone within 9 months or so, and others who even 7 years later still are torn up about it they don't try to get over it.

ComtessedeBussy
August 15th, 2012, 10:20 PM
well, I"m going to join in with everyone agreeing that it was too early for Daniel to fall for anyone. Time may have passed in the SG-1 world, but it's still the first episode that follows the rather poignant loss of Sha're from a storytelling point of view. Also, episodes in which characters fall for each other after about a day annoy the hell out of me, though it seems to be a common occurence on television since they only have 40 minutes. Still, I like to think that Daniel would like to get to know a person, not just jump at the first woman who showed interest, and I just really did not buy him getting over his wife that fast. I really don't see how that scene progressed from him saying he lost Sha're to the kissing session that ensued. Daniel, to me, is a very decent person, who remained faithful to Sha're during all the time she was gone (well, minus all the stuff where he wasn't himself). I see him as someone who would wait and remain faithful to her memory for a bit longer. And, yes, he may have really lost her a long time ago, but that doesn't change the fact that, in the previous episode, he was willing to quit the SGC and get as far away as possible to deal with the loss. From that, it just doesn't follow that he's so willing to jump into another relationship.

And also add to that my dislike of Daniel being all irrational and quick to jump to conclusions, that's a bit OOC to me.

Also, what I felt this episode really really lacks is an explanation of Why Ke'ra/Linnaiea is the person she is. Without her memories, she is a good person, with her memories, "a monster," as she calls herself, a destroyer of worlds. So what is it about the things that she remembers that makes her bad? Is it a particular memory, or is it a part of her identity? Given the storyline and its focus on whether Ke'ra was still Linnaiea, and given Daniel's comparison of her to Teal'c, it'd have been nice if they'd shown her turning point, the way we know Teal'c's turning point. Otherwise, well, I can just see her becoming the person she was again, memories or not. I don't trust that the amnesia will keep her evil side away.

also, interesting comparison to Michael in Atlantis, that's something I hadn't thought of. I"ll have to think on that!

Major Clanger
March 24th, 2013, 11:15 AM
not overly impressed with this ep because they have Daniel - an ostensibly brainy person - going off on one and not following team protocols. On the other hand, he must be a bit cut up about (finally) losing Sha're.

on the other hand i really liked the look of the planet, very steampunk. On the other hand why was Sam suddenly an expert in biology and taking a look down the microscope and Dr Fraser not looking?

But on the other hand. Blimey, it takes time but finally finally we get a follow up e on a very important character.

But I'll only give it 2 stars because I found it boring.

Falcon Horus
June 4th, 2013, 04:35 PM
Orner is Randy Disher from Monk :D

That's why he looked so familiar. :p

Anyhow...

Not such an interesting episode really. It's kinda meh...

That those two who found SG1 were married was clear from the get-go the way they behaved, like the cliche of an old married couple. :p Funny too.

And hello Linea... or Kyra whichever we prefer.
I didn't blame them for being suspicious and reluctant to want to work with her but in the end they have to sort of put their prejudice aside and ask for her help.

Daniel doing a rebound... seriously?! Yeah, right...

Anja
September 12th, 2015, 09:28 AM
The destroyer of worlds - again but different.

Good ending, hope for the future of that woman.

maneth
March 27th, 2016, 10:42 AM
Mmm, but what if she regains her memory again?

Anja
March 28th, 2016, 09:07 PM
I think they made sure that won't happen - she can't remember and the people on the planet are not advanced enough to give her back her memory.

Falcon Horus
January 26th, 2018, 04:41 PM
I have meh-feelings about this episode. Orner and his friend, who turn out to be that old married couple, are fun to watch but I'm not charmed by the episode as a whole.

And the Destroyer of World is done no justice. They reduced her to a convenient plot-point and it fell flat.

Not very memorable, that's for sure.

How would you rate SG-1's "Past and Present?"

Excellent
Good
Fair
Poor
Terrible

jelgate
January 28th, 2018, 06:06 PM
I agree with FH. Maybe she is my lemening. The episode is a boring one as mentioned they just butchered Linea. I for one have a hard time believing that she would stop being a sociopath because she lost her memories. The episode shows our skills remain in tact, so should the personality. Really the problem with this episode comes to Linea and her sick romance with Daniel. I too call it a poor

Falcon Horus
January 29th, 2018, 03:07 AM
Really the problem with this episode comes to Linea and her sick romance with Daniel.

Michael Shanks agrees with you on that part. As it was, Past & Present was supposed to be filmed before Forever In A Day, but due to some unexpected shuffling, it ended up after FIAD, and he felt uncomfortable about Daniel making out with the first attractive woman he sees, so quick after Sha're's death whom he clearly loved very dearly.

Daniel makes a mention but it's just like a throw-away in the story and the proceeds to be infatuated with Linea anyway.

jelgate
January 29th, 2018, 05:30 AM
It's not just Share dying. It would have been creepy regardless because of the sociopath Linea was before the memory wipe

Falcon Horus
January 29th, 2018, 03:35 PM
It's not just Share dying. It would have been creepy regardless because of the sociopath Linea was before the memory wipe

That, the companion guide is quiet about, but indeed he still keeps the connection going, even after he knows who she really is. Second chances be damned, she's a psychopath -- you don't get named the Destroyer of Worlds for nothing.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
January 30th, 2018, 07:25 AM
Hey guys, we don't know her side of the story. Maybe it was all just a misunderstanding, and her very worthwhile medical research sort of got out of hand. I mean, this second time she didn't mean to regress everyone in age and wipe their memories, maybe that plague was just supposed to give everyone immunity to something...

...Nah. She's a psycho.

Seaboe

Laxian of Earth
January 30th, 2018, 07:31 AM
Hey guys,

I've just reached this one in my re-watch and I really hate that they didn't even try to find out what Linea really did! I mean yes she supposedly killed a lot of people, but then again so did Teal'c (and he was put on trial for that, too in "Cor-Ai", hell the SGA-Team was also put on trial in the Pegasus Galaxy for waking up the Wraith despite their noble intentions (they didn't want to wake anything or anybody up, they just wanted their people back!)...hell, the SGC also was "on trial" several times (SG-1 was sent to prison where they found Linea in the first place, the entire SGC faced Senator Kinsey and the IOA several times who both didn't like many of their actions etc. etc.) and each time they presented arguments, but here they themselves didn't even try to find out what Linea did before wiping her mind again!)

Then there is this incredible substance Linea found (note: I'd really like to know why they didn't take some of the cold-fusion-plants in the original Linea episode! Those would have solved a real problem on Earth and would probably be worth billions!) and which was sadly not used again!

I mean call me an ass, but would offer this substance to anybody in the SGC (regain your youth, serve your country and planet longer!) and maybe even sell it, too (the SGC would never be starved for money again!) they can after all cure the loss of memory!

greetings LAX

Seaboe Muffinchucker
January 31st, 2018, 07:24 AM
Seriously, what shows her to be a psycho IMO is that she
1. experimented on people without their permission.
2. experimented on people without their knowledge.
3. went straight to human experimentation without exploring the risks of the drug.

Sounds a lot like Dr. Mengeles to me.

Seaboe

Laxian of Earth
February 1st, 2018, 09:39 AM
Maybe, but maybe she only experimented on herself (she wanted her youth back which, after decades in prison, I can understand!) and triggered some chain reaction (or maybe she was "contagious" and spread the experiment?)? Fact is that we don't know!

greetings LAX

Falcon Horus
February 1st, 2018, 10:35 AM
Maybe, but maybe she only experimented on herself (she wanted her youth back which, after decades in prison, I can understand!) and triggered some chain reaction (or maybe she was "contagious" and spread the experiment?)? Fact is that we don't know!

But we do know -- she made a notation in her diary about two elderly people she used to experiment on, which were then thought to be Linea and that Doctor something-something.

Laxian of Earth
February 2nd, 2018, 05:29 AM
Ok, so she experimented on herself and one other, but that still does NOT explain how she lost control of the experiment (she probably wouldn't have liked the memoryloss, so why would she subject herself to that if she doesn't have a cure - unless she were dying, then she'd probably use her drug to avoid that, hoping that the memories return later!) and how it spread!

greetings LAX

Falcon Horus
February 2nd, 2018, 07:04 AM
No, not herself... the bodies of the two elderly people were the only elders who were found.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
February 2nd, 2018, 07:35 AM
she lost control of the experiment

That, right there, is a major, major problem. It doesn't matter how she lost control, just that she did. Given that it's not the first experiment she lost control of ("destroyer of worlds", remember?) it shows a lack of interest in, or empathy for, other people that is one of the signs of a sociopath.

Seaboe

Laxian of Earth
February 4th, 2018, 05:23 PM
Maybe, but that doesn't give them the freaking right to just delete her memory again (they can't be sure it won't come back one day! So sticking Linea in therapy would be the safer alternative and they'd still have access to her smarts and knowledge and it's not like she could run if she's under round the clock guard! She'd also stick out like a sore thumb on Earth (should she manage to leave), just like Teal'c does (just without the symbol on the forehead))

greetings LAX
ps: I would also LIKE TO KNOW (yes, curiousity kills cats, but I am not a cat!) what she did!

Seaboe Muffinchucker
February 5th, 2018, 08:19 AM
She volunteered to have her memory erased again.

You can never know what she did, because TPTB never said, other that it involved an epidemic disease.

You want to make her a sympathetic character? Fine, go write the story.

Seaboe

Falcon Horus
February 14th, 2018, 04:26 PM
For those who haven't done the epic 9 episode quiz posted in the Proper Stargate Rewatch: round-up of polls, quizzes & jigsaw puzzles (https://forum.gateworld.net/threads/92674-Proper-Stargate-Rewatch-round-up-of-polls-quizzes-jigsaw-puzzles), can partake in the 3-episode quiz instead which deals with the episodes of week 19: Forever In A Day, Past And Present & Jolinar's Memories (https://goo.gl/forms/XxmZl0OkF485sZdR2).

Jigsaw: Past And Present (https://www.jigidi.com/solve.php?id=EX43IUJK)

My jigsaw time: 10:03

jelgate
March 11th, 2018, 12:36 PM
I can reclaim my title with 5 minutes and 41 seconds

Falcon Horus
March 12th, 2018, 05:31 AM
The world is safe. It's not going to end after all. :p

BethHG
June 24th, 2018, 01:56 PM
10:49

Didn't like this one so much. Not thrilled that Daniel was attracted to a psycho woman. It did tie up the Linea storyline-- that is the only thing that I liked about this episode.

Who Knows
September 20th, 2018, 07:41 AM
11.05

hedwig
September 20th, 2018, 08:18 PM
7:21 and 13/15