we have proof that ancients had a army

[Acropolis]

from the siege part 3 we have almost concrete proof that the ancients had a ground based armed force. here is what i came up with.

1. In the rising the keeper knew what the ancient life signs detector was, meaning that she probably knew that from a acient she fead on that had one. for this reason it is safe to conclude that the ancient using it was out in the field and got culled, on a mission. if it was inside of a building it would have most likely been in a city protected by a shield.

2. The different types of wraith hand weapons. in the siege pt 3 we have seen the stun riffles and the guns. its grenades are a dead give away, they need there food living when they eat grenades kill. meaning it was used in very bad situations, against an enemy that is keeping them at bay.

3. Ground troops, its not much but they do use darts. there is not much reasons to walk when u can just sweep them up.

4. the last i can think of now is this is a race they have 50 million + years worth of technology, they had to have ground forces, and they traveled to 4 (Ida counts) different possibly more galaxys they must have wanted to go and personally check the inviorment before seeding life. this race is like us explorers and just about all explorers to that extent carrys weapons.

Please correct me if im wrong and add more that i have forgotten.

[Darth Buddha]

from the siege part 3 we have almost concrete proof that the ancients had a ground based armed force. here is what i came up with.

1. In the rising the keeper knew what the ancient life signs detector was, meaning that she probably knew that from a acient she fead on that had one. for this reason it is safe to conclude that the ancient using it was out in the field and got culled, on a mission. if it was inside of a building it would have most likely been in a city protected by a shield.

Gee, who else might carry a life detector? Scientists maybe? This point is wholly inconclusive.

2. The different types of wraith hand weapons. in the siege pt 3 we have seen the stun riffles and the guns. its grenades are a dead give away, they need there food living when they eat grenades kill. meaning it was used in very bad situations, against an enemy that is keeping them at bay.

What about if they run into folks like the Genii, who DO clearly have weapons capable of killing the Wraith. You'd need a grenade then, right? There are lots of available reasons to have grenades other than the Ancients having ground armed forces 10,000 years ago.

3. Ground troops, its not much but they do use darts. there is not much reasons to walk when u can just sweep them up.

They land and cull on foot so that means the Ancients had footsoldiers? Those two facts are connected how? If I go hunting on foot despite the fact that I can shoot an elephant from a helicopter, how does that prove that mastodons had footsoldiers, exactly? There's no logical connection there, I'm afraid.

4. the last i can think of now is this is a race they have 50 million + years worth of technology, they had to have ground forces, and they traveled to 4 (Ida counts) different possibly more galaxys they must have wanted to go and personally check the inviorment before seeding life. this race is like us explorers and just about all explorers to that extent carrys weapons.

So, Louis and Clarke are ground based armed forces? If my brother and I go on an expedition with revolvers in case we meet a bear, you are going to call us "armed forces"? That's not what "armed forces" commonly means.

Check the definition below, with a link so you can check to see I'm not playing with the defintion.

armed forces
pl.n.
The military forces of a country. Also called armed services.

http://dictionary.reference.com/sear...armed%20forces

Please correct me if im wrong and add more that i have forgotten.

At least some of your facts ARE in order, you just seem to have some rather odd ideas when it comes to your logic. I'm afraid you don't have even a weak argument to support your conclusions.

Here's a suggestion, though, before you decide you have "proof", try to tear apart your own argument first. I do that; I still make errors in reasoning that way, but I catch quite a few before they get out of the gate.

[!Dorentus!]

Gee, who else might carry a life detector? Scientists maybe? This point is wholly inconclusive.

So are you saying that just because a scientist would have one a soldier wouldn't? Why would you carry a lifesign detector anyway if you knew that all the lifesigns on the screen were part of your scientific group and weren't knowingly coming in contact with the wraith or do you think they were out doing animal research in the middle of a war.
Scientists usually stay indoors and don't need portable life-sign detectors to travel with to a world where wraith are, unlike a soldier. It's really not that hard to see that the Ancients might have had some sort of military ground force and especially an air force with the puddlejumpers. The races that Stargate has come across have when in war had ground troops no matter how advanced they were with the exception of the Asgard but imagine an Asgard with a gun trying to combat a replicator human form or not, it just doesn't work. So the ancients were in a war that lasted at least a hundred years and you don't think they would have had a few situations that would have required an army? Do you really think that they didn't or are you just bringing up things that indicate that they wouldn't just for the sake of argument?

What about if they run into folks like the Genii, who DO clearly have weapons capable of killing the Wraith. You'd need a grenade then, right? There are lots of available reasons to have grenades other than the Ancients having ground armed forces 10,000 years ago.

True, I don't think we have proof of an ancient army but I think logically it existed. One "proof" as acropolis would say(it's what I call a logical probability since people such as yourself would think up reasons why it just might not be true) I think those personal shields(Mckay had one in 'Hide and Seek' I think) would have come in real handy for ground troops, but of course you will probably come up with some other reason why they made it like for protecting themselves from spilling hot coffee on themselves and thus "proving" that using the shield to protect soldiers wasn't what the personal sheild was intended for.

They land and cull on foot so that means the Ancients had footsoldiers? Those two facts are connected how? If I go hunting on foot despite the fact that I can shoot an elephant from a helicopter, how does that prove that mastodons had footsoldiers, exactly? There's no logical connection there, I'm afraid.

First of all Mastodan's are way too stupid to think about battle strategies much less be compared to the ancients so it's probably a bad analogy. I don't understand either of your points that well on this one.

So, Louis and Clarke are ground based armed forces? If my brother and I go on an expedition with revolvers in case we meet a bear, you are going to call us "armed forces"? That's not what "armed forces" commonly means.

I think the main point is that the ancients are the first evolution of our kind so they tend to do things like us. A lot of times SGC teams (like SG-1) call themselves explorers but when they run into enemy fire or lifesucking aliens maybe they look a whole lot like the military, cuz I guess they are military you know. And if you go into unknown or enemy teritory you'll probably going to want military backup if you have it just like Louis and Clark because if you check it out they were military and so were most of their expedition we just remember them as explorers because that's what they did, explore.

Check the definition below, with a link so you can check to see I'm not playing with the defintion.

armed forces
pl.n.
The military forces of a country. Also called armed services.

http://dictionary.reference.com/sear...armed%20forces


At least some of your facts ARE in order, you just seem to have some rather odd ideas when it comes to your logic. I'm afraid you don't have even a weak argument to support your conclusions.

I definitely wouldn't say it was weak, however, it may not be bona fide "proof". It's unlikely that the ancients would have a huge mass of troops in one area cuz it's too risky, but I think they would have troops for short recon, assasin, and rescue missions (etc) just like Atlantis now.Have fun debating others and teaching others how D.B. Hey! I'll even give you the last word.

Here's a suggestion, though, before you decide you have "proof", try to tear apart your own argument first. I do that; I still make errors in reasoning that way, but I catch quite a few before they get out of the gate.

[hungrytrash]

Lol...gotta watch out for that coffee...I doubt the Ancients had giant armies of soldiers on the ground with guns, though I'm positive they had soldiers and ground weapons. However they wouldn't risk having 1000 men sitting there, then the Wraith darts come and cull them all...I believe that ground troops are there for when you need them. If we had 30 Daedalus' and there were Wraith on the ground, we'd blow them up from the sky rather than sending guys down . Dang I suck at organizing my crap...

[uknesvuinng]

My apologies to Darth Buddha, who could very easily defend these points himself. I'm just bored and thought this would be a good way to jump into the fray.

So are you saying that just because a scientist would have one a soldier wouldn't? Why would you carry a lifesign detector anyway if you knew that all the lifesigns on the screen were part of your scientific group and weren't knowingly coming in contact with the wraith or do you think they were out doing animal research in the middle of a war.

Buddha's point still stands. The keeper recognizing an Ancient lifesigns detector does not conclude that the Ancients had an infantry. It merely proves the Wraith had seen the tech at some point and knew it was of Ancient origin.

Scientists usually stay indoors and don't need portable life-sign detectors to travel with to a world where wraith are, unlike a soldier. It's really not that hard to see that the Ancients might have had some sort of military ground force and especially an air force with the puddlejumpers. The races that Stargate has come across have when in war had ground troops no matter how advanced they were with the exception of the Asgard but imagine an Asgard with a gun trying to combat a replicator human form or not, it just doesn't work. So the ancients were in a war that lasted at least a hundred years and you don't think they would have had a few situations that would have required an army? Do you really think that they didn't or are you just bringing up things that indicate that they wouldn't just for the sake of argument?

Depends on the scientist. An archeologist wouldn't get much done if he stayed at a lab all the time. And a lifesigns detector would definitely be standard equipment for an Atlantean scientist checking up a seeded world about to unknowingly walk into the biggest threat his race has had to face in a while.

While it would be quite possible that the Ancients developed some kind of militia for the war, I don't think they would have required a standing army. A simple temporary militia for defense of off-world bases would suffice.

True, I don't think we have proof of an ancient army but I think logically it existed. One "proof" as acropolis would say(it's what I call a logical probability since people such as yourself would think up reasons why it just might not be true) I think those personal shields(Mckay had one in 'Hide and Seek' I think) would have come in real handy for ground troops, but of course you will probably come up with some other reason why they made it like for protecting themselves from spilling hot coffee on themselves and thus "proving" that using the shield to protect soldiers wasn't what the personal sheild was intended for.

So the only possible uses for a personal shield are combat and coffee protection? The shield couldn't be used to study a hazardous environment? Or maybe a safety device for dangerous tasks? Just because one can't see another use for it doesn't mean that it HAS TO BE for use by some form of infantry. Also, just because it can be used for one purpose does not mean it is excluded from use for any other purpose. Once again, this is not conclusive proof that the Ancients had an army.

First of all Mastodan's are way too stupid to think about battle strategies much less be compared to the ancients so it's probably a bad analogy. I don't understand either of your points that well on this one.

Mastadon's and Elephants are being used interchangibly here, but the point is: "If you kill something from the ground when you could have done it from the air, this means that the something must have had an army?"

I think the main point is that the ancients are the first evolution of our kind so they tend to do things like us. A lot of times SGC teams (like SG-1) call themselves explorers but when they run into enemy fire or lifesucking aliens maybe they look a whole lot like the military, cuz I guess they are military you know. And if you go into unknown or enemy teritory you'll probably going to want military backup if you have it just like Louis and Clark because if you check it out they were military and so were most of their expedition we just remember them as explorers because that's what they did, explore.

Just because they think like us doesn't mean they use the same means as we do. If we had flying city with an impregnable shield and weapons that could tear through anything known, we probably wouldn't keep an army to defend it either. Would be a waste of manpower. If they ever developed a ground force, it would be after they encountered the Wraith and realized the extent of the danger. Even so, they may have never used ground troops, but instead stuck to jumper warfare.

So, in conclusion, while it's indeed possible that the Ancients had some form of militia or regular army, there's nothing conclusive to point to it even being "very likely", much less definitively proven.

[mindtwister]

I'm sure whatever army the ancients did have stayed in their ships towards the end of their war.

[Lexx]

I find it doubtful the Lantians had any kind of massive ground-based army. If anything, they probably had a small contingent of police-like enforcers for ground based things, while their battlecruisers took on the more dangerous fights. However, I could see them creating something like the Kull Warriors, then using those en masse. But the Lantians (and the rest of the Ancients, for that matter) don't appear to be the kind of people who would grab a gun and go fight. They seem more like the Trade Federation from Star Wars, safely directing legions of automated soldiers from far away. But again, I don't think the Lantians had any ground force to the scale of the droid armies in Star Wars.

[MarshAngel]

I think one even more obvious point should be added. Given the Wraith's numbers a ground based armed force would likely be the worst and most illogical use of man power. Given the fact the only time Wraith seem to come to ground is to collect dinner, why would you put yourself in the position of being dinner when you stand a better chance of fighting them where numbers are somewhat less of an issue, in the air.

If the Ancients were outnumbered to begin with I doubt they'd waste time fighting on a front where numbers count most and they are at a decided disadvantage of being physically weaker, edible, and a liability if captured. If they originally had any ground forces I would assume they were the first items on the Wraith Menu.

[Darth Buddha]

Thanks, uknesvuinng, for giving !Dorentus! some rationale for my points. I can't resist taking a stab at it myself.

So are you saying that just because a scientist would have one a soldier wouldn't? Why would you carry a lifesign detector anyway if you knew that all the lifesigns on the screen were part of your scientific group and weren't knowingly coming in contact with the wraith or do you think they were out doing animal research in the middle of a war.

No, I'm not saying any of that.

The Life Signs detector was posited as a form of "proof" that the Ancients had "armed forces"... That's IF A THEN B: If you have a life detector you must be a soldier. However, if scientists would also have a life detector, then one could say, IF C THEN B. With two possible reasons for having a life detector are reasonable, one cannot then assume IF C THEN A. That's the fallacy of assuming the consequent.

As to why as a scientist I'd carry a lifesign detector as a scientist, the answer is obvious: my race has seeded the galaxy with humans, and now I'm going out to study how they've come along. The animals they were studying were HUMAN. That's one very obvious use. But for all we know, that thing could just be like Dr. McCoy's Tricorder and do lots of medical readings other than detecting life... and the SGA just haven't figured it out yet.

Scientists usually stay indoors and don't need portable life-sign detectors to travel with to a world where wraith are, unlike a soldier.

Poppycock. SOME scientists don't get out. Others do it all the time. They do it so much, they even have a phrase for it. It's called FIELD WORK. Just who do you think studies lions, tigers, and bears (oh my) in their native environment?

I'm afraid your vision of scientists is woefully limited.

It's really not that hard to see that the Ancients might have had some sort of military ground force and especially an air force with the puddlejumpers.

Are the puddlejumpers an air force, or just really snazzy taxis? Again, if I go out, say, on the ocean in a boat and take some stuff to defend me from piracy (yes, it's still a concern in some parts of the world), does that make my boat a naval vessel? Hardly. Such armament, compared to, say, men from a couple thousand years ago would be VERY effective, despite the fact that I'm not military.

The "might have had" is not "proof". Might have had is a possibility, that I cannot logically rule out as of yet. But nor can anyone cite evidence to argue that they DID.

The races that Stargate has come across have when in war had ground troops no matter how advanced they were with the exception of the Asgard but imagine an Asgard with a gun trying to combat a replicator human form or not, it just doesn't work.

R-i-i-g-h-t. The Tollen didn't have an army or ground forces. They had a few automatic cannons. No ground troops. That's two examples.

I'd say you have too few examples to suggest anything like you sugggest. That's the fallacy of hasty generalization.

So the ancients were in a war that lasted at least a hundred years and you don't think they would have had a few situations that would have required an army? Do you really think that they didn't or are you just bringing up things that indicate that they wouldn't just for the sake of argument?

I'm saying you have no evidence whatsoever to support that argument. They might have all been pacific for so long that the idea of hand to hand combat might be repulsive to them. They might have been too personally cowardly to fight hand to hand, and preferred to rely on their advanced spacecraft to act as a buffer between them and the bad guys. They might have preferred to just use air power, a la the air strikes in Gulf War I to keep their enemies at bay.

There are a host of possibilities, and the arguments presented don't support the stated conclusion in the least.

True, I don't think we have proof of an ancient army but I think logically it existed.

No. If you don't have "proof" then you don't think "logically".

log·ic n.

The study of the principles of reasoning, especially of the structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method and validity in deductive reasoning.
A system of reasoning: Aristotle's logic.
A mode of reasoning: By that logic, we should sell the company tomorrow.
The formal, guiding principles of a discipline, school, or science.
Valid reasoning: Your paper lacks the logic to prove your thesis.
The relationship between elements and between an element and the whole in a set of objects, individuals, principles, or events: There's a certain logic to the motion of rush-hour traffic.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=67&q=logic

What you do, is think fallaciously:

fal·la·cy n.

A false notion.
A statement or an argument based on a false or invalid inference.
Incorrectness of reasoning or belief; erroneousness.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fallacy

One "proof" as acropolis would say(it's what I call a logical probability since people such as yourself would think up reasons why it just might not be true) I think those personal shields(Mckay had one in 'Hide and Seek' I think) would have come in real handy for ground troops, but of course you will probably come up with some other reason why they made it like for protecting themselves from spilling hot coffee on themselves and thus "proving" that using the shield to protect soldiers wasn't what the personal sheild was intended for.

You are not engaging in any logical probabalism. Let me explain it to you again. YOU have made a hypothesis that this was a tool for ground troops, and then say, because this tool was only for ground troops, it is evidence that they had ground troops! IF A THEN B. If they have a sheild, they must have had it for ground troops. For that to be true it must be IF A THEN ONLY B. All I need is one equally (or even just barely) plausible alternative, and your IF A THEN ONLY B is out the window. So here's an alternative for you: the sheild was developed so that they could capture the very energy sucking being that McKay used it against in that very episode. How else could you handle it? So now we have IF A THEN B, which is a viable hypothesis, and IF C THEN B, which is also viable. You can't then say IF B THEN A. Fallacy of affirming the consequence.

Look up fallacies here, learn them, and you'll do much better next time at avoidinig such pitfalls.
http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm

Look up logical proof here, you'll construct much better valid arguments too.
http://www-g.eng.cam.ac.uk/mmg/teach...knowledge3.htm

First of all Mastodan's are way too stupid to think about battle strategies much less be compared to the ancients so it's probably a bad analogy. I don't understand either of your points that well on this one.

O.K., I'll spoonfeed it to you.

The Wraith hunt humans. Sometimes from a small ship, sometimes on foot. Acropolis says if you hunt on foot when you could just as easily do so from the air, that means you had ground troops of the "armed forces" variety in the past. So my analogy to elephants and mastodons is exactly apt. The only reason I chose them was to demonstrate how outlandish such reasoning is. The upshot being: having ground hunters now in no way is proof of some opponent in the past having had any ground troops. If it were, then ground hunters for elephants would have proven that elephants long ago (in my example Mastodons) also had armies. The argument is silly.

I think the main point is that the ancients are the first evolution of our kind so they tend to do things like us.

Do they? Do we Ascend? Do we simply bug out and leave folks we are partly responsible for to the mercy of a vicious predator?

I dont' see us as alike at all. Your "point" is flim-flam.

A lot of times SGC teams (like SG-1) call themselves explorers but when they run into enemy fire or lifesucking aliens maybe they look a whole lot like the military, cuz I guess they are military you know. And if you go into unknown or enemy teritory you'll probably going to want military backup if you have it just like Louis and Clark because if you check it out they were military and so were most of their expedition we just remember them as explorers because that's what they did, explore.

Lad, they were "LEWIS and Clark", for starters. Moreover, they were indeed former military, having earned the rank of Captain in the army. However, if, say, my brother, a veteran, joins my expedition, that doesn't make it a military operation! Those men were comissioned by the President, not the LINE COMMAND, so their activities were most certainly not military!

I definitely wouldn't say it was weak, however, it may not be bona fide "proof". It's unlikely that the ancients would have a huge mass of troops in one area cuz it's too risky, but I think they would have troops for short recon, assasin, and rescue missions (etc) just like Atlantis now.Have fun debating others and teaching others how D.B. Hey! I'll even give you the last word.

Good choice. It scares me what passes for reason these days. But I guess I was lucky. I had a class in logic in Junior High, long before studying logic in college, but I understand the course isn't offered many places.

The arguments are not only weak, they are fallacious. That is to say, patently not logical: false. They do not support the conclusion. That doesn't say the conclusion is FALSE, that is to say it is at this point an unproven hypothesis.

Look up fallacies here, learn them, and you'll do much better next time at avoidinig such pitfalls.
http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/index.htm

Look up logical proof here, you'll construct much better valid arguments too.
http://www-g.eng.cam.ac.uk/mmg/teach...knowledge3.htm

[Acropolis]

these are all good points though during a war the ancients would have had the scientist working indoors protected making new weapons and things, not looking up bones or or checking a planet that was just wiped out. and if i was in the field i would ask for a life signs detector and a weapon.

we dont know but the ancients could have found a way to scramble the wraith darts culling beam so they wouldnt be picked up. meaning they were only taken in by ground personel.

5. Yes the ancients had a personal shield stated before. it could be used in a hazardous enviorment but it would seem more useful out on the fields where you could do damage and be invulenrable.

6. the puddle jumpers are not quite a fighter craft its more like a armed troop transport. because it is big in size and quite empty for it to be a 1 maned fighter, and its weapons seemed limited. the best chances were that it was used for moving a task force like SEALS for infiltration, they probably wore the personal shields and mybe had a cloak and personal weapons. sent out on occasions to get intel and for sabotage.

7. in the defiant one the wraith said the he fead off of the altantians. how would he have gotten them? he could be lieng or he could have penetrated the shield. i am aware the he could have culled them off of transport ships coming into the city but it doesnt make them atlantians. if he penetrated the shield somehow the ancients must have had armed troops walking the city at all times.

8. Teyla's old necklace it is activated the by the ancient gene, seeing that it was made for the ancients, why would it be used? the city is protected by a shield. a unshielded city would most defiantely have armed forces all over the city in a time of war. i am aware that it could be used to sense an ancients if they returned but why they would have been protected by the shield.

[not so ancient]

If nothing else, Acropolis, your arguments fall apart because an infantry army is incredibly inefficient and primitive.

The logistics of transporting troops by jumper or by walking through gates, the equipment and supplies they need, the deployment of ground troops with hand-carried weapons, etc. is risky, clumsy and clunky compared to the power, simplicity and elegance of most Ancient technology.

The Ancients defended themselves not with one guy sitting on point with a rifle, but with incredibly advanced technology adapted to defensive and offensive purposes. What we're doing in Atlantis with our defense - rail guns, hand weapons, etc., and with our bumbling use of the Ancient technology - is like duct-taping a Model T Ford transmission on the sleekest, most advanced Jaguar racecar. (I said Jag because I love their elegant design - pick your own favorite model.) All love and respect to McKay and Zelenka, but we understand Ancient technology just barely well enough to use it without blowing ourselves up.

The Ancients didn't think "army" when creating a defense for themselves. They think "ZPM based shield" so that there is no need for armed troops to be outside that shield, risking their lives.

Also - a nitpick. What you're callilng the life-signs detector is actually much more like Spock's tricorder than simply a biological thing. McKay uses the same device all the time to find energy readings - as in Underground and The Gift.

I think the Ancients undoubtedly did have some sort of personal armanent, shields, etc. but those are useful to explorers entering unknown and possibly hostile areas, not only to troops. I am absolutely not a soldier, but I carry my father's knife with me. So far the most it's been used for is cutting fruit, but if I ever get in trouble, I have 9 inches of steel at hand.

[Acropolis]

im just saying they had a armed force other then an air force. not every ancient city could have had a massive shield and there is no doubt that they had another city in pegasus. they have been there for how long? the other citys may not fly but chances are they not all of them had a great shield. ony protection they would have is a armed force and defence cannons and turrets around the city.

you cannot disagree with the fact that the puddle jumpers must have been used in moving a small group of elite soildiers into a hive ship an sabotaging it. they probably had a shield each and a cloak. for the best job and the safest job a life signs detector was probabaly used. i currently am 15 years old so when i get the chance i got over to my friends house to play airsoft (a game the resembles war using replica guns discharging plastic bbs are low speed of 250 -500 fps) having a device like that would increase ones chance of survival immensly. all of the enemy positions would be given away so there is not much chances of a surprise or ambush.

[Enemyone]

If nothing else, Acropolis, your arguments fall apart because an infantry army is incredibly inefficient and primitive..

This is a joke right, primitive...............i personally feel tht the Ancients didnt have a standing army because it went against what we know about them for the most part. Are you saying this because in SG most of the advanced races dont want to fight anything. If so I understand where your comming from, only abit though as that the biggiest shortcomming of the SG Universe.

[Darth Buddha]

these are all good points though during a war the ancients would have had the scientist working indoors protected making new weapons and things, not looking up bones or or checking a planet that was just wiped out. and if i was in the field i would ask for a life signs detector and a weapon.

Yep, but on the converse side, I can't argue that we have proof it WASN'T for ground troops, so keep watching for more facts! Your hypothesis may yet turn out to be correct!

we dont know but the ancients could have found a way to scramble the wraith darts culling beam so they wouldnt be picked up. meaning they were only taken in by ground personel.

Either way, the behavior of the Wraith today with relatively unsophisticated humans doesn't tell us a bit about the past. You have no evidence here to support your hypothesis.

5. Yes the ancients had a personal shield stated before. it could be used in a hazardous enviorment but it would seem more useful out on the fields where you could do damage and be invulenrable.

Seems more useful to you, but as a scientist who has had to go places in an airtight suit, with my seams taped and breathing bottled air, let me tell you it seems MIGHTY useful to me.

"Seems" just doesn't amount to "proof", for you or for me. It's still just hypothesis. A GOOD hypothesis, mind you, and one that should be stated for further evaluation.

6. the puddle jumpers are not quite a fighter craft its more like a armed troop transport. because it is big in size and quite empty for it to be a 1 maned fighter, and its weapons seemed limited. the best chances were that it was used for moving a task force like SEALS for infiltration, they probably wore the personal shields and mybe had a cloak and personal weapons. sent out on occasions to get intel and for sabotage.

Does the Puddle Jumper really look like a troop transport to you? It is pretty full with a team of FOUR. You might get eight in there. But eight just doesn't seem like enough. As a troop transport, I'd call that a no-go.

7. in the defiant one the wraith said the he fead off of the altantians. how would he have gotten them? he could be lieng or he could have penetrated the shield.

We already know the Wraith didn't penetrate the Atlantean shield except by brute force. If they had such a capability, they'd have used it in "The Seige: Part III"... unless they mysteriously lost such capabilities. I'd call that a stretch because you've got to assume so much. Occam's Razor applies. So you've not cited anything that suggests that armed gaurds were needed within the city.

i am aware the he could have culled them off of transport ships coming into the city but it doesnt make them atlantians.

Agreed, we have no information to allow us to conclude the "kind" of humans on the supply ship.

if he penetrated the shield somehow the ancients must have had armed troops walking the city at all times.

No. They wouldn't. Moreover, we have sufficient evidence (as constructed above) to find the idea of the Wraith penetrating a sheild to be highly unlikely. You've got no evidence there.

8. Teyla's old necklace it is activated the by the ancient gene, seeing that it was made for the ancients, why would it be used?

The Wraith were monitoring the transmissions of this device, so it wouldn't be a stretch to conclude it was an "Ancient Gene Tracking Device". The application is pretty obvious: such a person either IS an Ancient, and therefore is a real threat, or they have the gene like Sheppard, in which case they can use Ancient technology, and they are still a real threat. If you seed many planets with these things and people wear them, sooner or later you'll find most of the Ancient gene lines and exterminate them.

the city is protected by a shield. a unshielded city would most defiantely have armed forces all over the city in a time of war.

No, you have presented evidence for Ancient Atlanteans outside of the protected sheild of Atlantis, but that's not evidence of unsheilded cities with troops.

There are a myriad of possibilities that can explain such evidence. Peaceful colonies of Ancient Atlanteans taken unawares. Scientific survey teams. Crew from Puddle Jumpers or Ancient Atlantean ships that were shot down.

So your hypothesis gets no deductive support here either.

i am aware that it could be used to sense an ancients if they returned but why they would have been protected by the shield.

And this proves what exactly? Even if the Ancients DID return but remained in Atlantis, they'd STILL be no threat to the Wraith. Only if they started making forays into the Pegasus Galaxy would they be a threat. There they would likely encounter humans with the pretty "Ancient Detector" trinkets somewhere on their bodies.. and as soon as the gene is detected, the Wraith are alerted.

Seems like a pretty good plan by the Wraith to me, but it doesn't lend a whit of support to your hypothesis. Your hypothesis hasn't been disproven, but it isn't supported either.

[Avenger]

Does the Puddle Jumper really look like a troop transport to you? It is pretty full with a team of FOUR. You might get eight in there. But eight just doesn't seem like enough. As a troop transport, I'd call that a no-go.

I think he was equating the Jumpers to somethink like a Blackhawk of today or a Huey of the Vietnam era. Not a transport for massive numbers of troops, but small teams for stealthy insertions (if such teams existed). The jumpers could be used for that purpose given that they are armed and have cloaks. Of course, there is no proof of this. The cloak could just have easily been used to allow teams of scientitst to observe withut beeing seen as well.