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GateWorld
July 11th, 2005, 02:34 PM
<DIV ALIGN=CENTER><TABLE WIDTH=450 BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=7><TR><TD STYLE="border:0;"><DIV ALIGN=LEFT><FONT FACE="Arial" SIZE=2 COLOR="#000000"><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s9/903.shtml"><IMG SRC="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/graphics/903.jpg" WIDTH=160 HEIGHT=120 ALIGN=RIGHT HSPACE=10 VSPACE=2 BORDER=0 STYLE="border: 1px black solid" ALT="Visit the Episode Guide"></A><FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888">SG-1 SEASON NINE</FONT>
<FONT SIZE=4><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s9/903.shtml" STYLE="text-decoration: none"><B>ORIGIN</B></A></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 903</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
Daniel comes face to face with the Ori, a fiery race of beings who demand the worship of mortals. Elsewhere, Stargate Command encounters the first Ori missionary in our galaxy.

<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#888888"><B><A HREF="http://www.gateworld.net/sg1/s9/903.shtml">VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >></A></B>
SPOILERS! PHOTOS! AND MORE!</FONT></FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TABLE></DIV>

briguy213
July 29th, 2005, 04:58 PM
I cant wait to see what these ori got for us. This episode made me alot more excited for this season 9. YAY!!!!

Bobthespirit
July 29th, 2005, 04:58 PM
I think I know where they're going for with this. You see, they want to make villains who are similar enough to Christians to piss off Christian protest groups enough to try to get the show banned.

It's like Grand Theft Auto. When angry mothers started complaining about it, sales went way up. So the Stargate writers are trying to get the same kind of press for Stargate, thinking ratings will go up. Brilliant.

These guys are just as over the top as the gu'ald but with less engaging personalities. I don't think the Ori are very interesting villains. And honestly, I'm not interested at all to see how this plays out. It looks to me like Ori won't be able to attack them directly, but they will be able to send armies (Because of the other ancients).

Wow...I just thought of something. In the Stargate world, there really *is* a war against men of faith! (Unlike the real world, where that's all a bunch of crap).

IMForeman
July 29th, 2005, 05:01 PM
This was an excellent episode. The Ori scare me way more than the Goa'uld ever did. As Malcolm Reynolds once said "Nothing worse than a monster who thinks he's right with God." These guys aren't pretenders like the Gould, they are True Believers. Much, MUCH more dangerous.

-IMF

emihaz5
July 29th, 2005, 05:05 PM
ONE WORD AWSOME!!!!! I can't wait to read what you all think! I LOVE the acting it is so goooddddd! :D

Excali5033
July 29th, 2005, 05:05 PM
Ack, O'Neill doesn't have enough TIG to make Major General. :b

One could argue that they represent Muslims, or Jews. Y'know, since they all preach the same things. Don't go labeling it anti-Christian half-cocked. But this isn't the Politics board, so I digress.

The alabaster Rings were pretty neat.

JanusAncient
July 29th, 2005, 05:05 PM
Oh, my, god! From beginning to end, this episode was amazing!

DANIquinn
July 29th, 2005, 05:08 PM
Man that ep rocked! The Ori are creepier than the Goa'uld and the Replicaters put together. I can't wait to see more of them.

Drakal
July 29th, 2005, 05:10 PM
Hey guys, Just be aware of the discussion of this episode but I am wondering if anyone else believes that The Origin has truely begun season 9 of SG1 and the way RDA was exited truely does allow for the show to continue with great ratings and stories.

Elwe Singollo
July 29th, 2005, 05:11 PM
I liked the episode, but omg, the Ori is one thing... "ANNOYING"

I forgot their exact 'phrase' that they used the most... something to the Ori, or whatever. That one thing annoyed me the most.

I'm so happy General Landry's arrogancy level went down a notch, my feelings towards him changed during this episode.

It was nice to see RDA. :)

MarshAngel
July 29th, 2005, 05:16 PM
I was impressed. They seem back on track with a great plot. Not that I wasn't very excited about this season but I'm definitely reassured now. Avalon 1 was Ok, Avalon 2 was better but this last episode really clarified the direction they're taking.

I really miss Carter though. Can't wait for her to come back.

SG1Happy
July 29th, 2005, 05:19 PM
I thought Avalon was pretty decent. I missed RDA, but the story was okay.

However, I HATED Origin. Yuck!

Maybe I'll mellow, but after eight plus years of being a fan, I think I'm done.

Sniff, sniff...

DANIquinn
July 29th, 2005, 05:22 PM
I really miss Carter though. Can't wait for her to come back.
I do too. That was the only real problem with the episode, no Carter. I kept expecting her to show up even though I knew she wouldn't.

Elwe Singollo
July 29th, 2005, 05:24 PM
I do too. That was the only real problem with the episode, no Carter. I kept expecting her to show up even though I knew she wouldn't.I know! I was also expecting our little smart super blonde would show up too! :( I think that was one of the few cons for the episode for me.

GateTraveler
July 29th, 2005, 05:27 PM
It was nice to see RDA. :)

I would have to disagree here. The little snippets of Jack in these episodes is a Jack I never knew. The guy looks half asleep. I love Jack but if he is going to sleepwalk through his scenes then he shouldn't be around at all. The word that comes to mind is "sad".

On the episode, it was GREAT. Unlike some past seasons, this one appears to be getting better and better with each episode.

BloomGate
July 29th, 2005, 05:27 PM
I think I know where they're going for with this. You see, they want to make villains who are similar enough to Christians to piss off Christian protest groups enough to try to get the show banned.

Interesting thought. So how are the Ori similar to Christians? Even if you draw the parallels to the Crusades and the Inquisition, that's hardly something I think current Christians would want to identify themselves with. It would be like them saying "Look at how horribly hypocritical we used to be...." And of course there have been (and possibly currently are) other religions that teach that all nonbelievers should be killed as well. I just don't see anything in the makeup of the Ori that couldn't be applied to virtually every major religion throughout history at one point or another. There probably have been exceptions, but I'm not an expert.

I think this is the drama that some folks have been looking for so far this season. Me likey. ;)

Drakal
July 29th, 2005, 05:31 PM
Yes, i can relate that the action is good. But i guess in all honestly when the Start of SG1 came around I was really excited and then i didnt like the way it started out. Still to this day my least favorite Season is Season 1 of SG1, with the exception of Major Story Arcs. As the seasons progressed the stories became better. Atlantis seems to of been the same way IMO. The Season 9 start is like a new show. Stargate The Next Generation if you will. Just give it time. As always... Hallowed are the Ori. Why wouldnt SG1 Season 9 will be just.

Elwe Singollo
July 29th, 2005, 05:36 PM
Maybe i'm stepping on some toes, but there's a little thread devoted to episode discussions, unless this thread is for a different purpose?

http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=13899

BruceDickinson
July 29th, 2005, 05:38 PM
This was a great episode, but I agree with the Christian comment to an extent. Maybe they want to be a Blue state show? :p JK

Really though, they have set up great potential for this season through these first 3 episodes.

Drakal
July 29th, 2005, 05:39 PM
ehh i dunno ill jump over there from now on i just wanted to know if people still think the season will be a fluke like some do. Not really any peticulars

Elwe Singollo
July 29th, 2005, 05:39 PM
I would have to disagree here. The little snippets of Jack in these episodes is a Jack I never knew. The guy looks half asleep. I love Jack but if he is going to sleepwalk through his scenes then he shouldn't be around at all. The word that comes to mind is "sad".

On the episode, it was GREAT. Unlike some past seasons, this one appears to be getting better and better with each episode.Well i never said i did like 'Jack' for that short cameo, because yes, i did see what you said, 'half asleep'. It was just simply nice to see RDA. :)

Also, MS's talk speed slow down this week? Haha...

BruceDickinson
July 29th, 2005, 05:42 PM
First, I know this is extremely redundant at this point, but I thought a proper post clearly marked as spoilage was appropriate considering all of the conversation tonight's episode is sure to create for weeks to come.

Wow, this was a really strong episode and served as a great finish to the S9 opening arc. Some will no doubt think this is just SG1 rehashed, but it's evident that TPTB thought this out and really wanted to introduce something into the show that would give it legs for years to come. It can be said many ways in more words, but this solidifies the feeling so far this season that the show will definitely be fresh this year.

The prior burning, was that simply teleportation? Perhaps he saw potential in Gerak when he seemed so angry at the General and decided to seek him individually out first.

How long before Gerak pledges his and his people's allegiance to the prior(s)? He seemed ready to drop to his knees at first sight, even after saying he wished to challenge the prior, we didn't see that from him.

How good are the confrontations between Gerak and Teal'c going to be this year? This was set up rather nicely IMO, from the Avalon up to now. Seeing CJ spar with LGJ will definitely be entertaining.

What is a prior? I mean, how is it they come to be, are they the person they were before, simply bestowed with those awesome powers? Or are they slightly possessed in a way that does not fully make them an ascended being, allowing them to influence us?

Will we see the priors interact with the wraith this year on SGA? Clearly the events of tonight's episode impact the entire Stargate universe, being in another galaxy will surely by them time, but how much?

If they can possess the powers we saw within a mortal body like we saw tonight and in Avalon 2, how powerful will their ships be?

How long before we see an Alteran explain the whole schism (for lack of a better term) first hand?

Will we see more evidence of this higher power discussed at the end of the episode this season?


So many more questions too, a very good episode...

rnwhocares
July 29th, 2005, 05:47 PM
I would have to disagree here. The little snippets of Jack in these episodes is a Jack I never knew. The guy looks half asleep. I love Jack but if he is going to sleepwalk through his scenes then he shouldn't be around at all. The word that comes to mind is "sad".

On the episode, it was GREAT. Unlike some past seasons, this one appears to be getting better and better with each episode.
i totally agree with you about RDA. I also think if they were going to write a Jack and Daniel scene it would have been nice to see some friendly-brotherly love type dialogue.
And I personally haven't missed Sam. Landry Teal'c Vala Mitchell ALL AWESOME!!

Excali5033
July 29th, 2005, 05:51 PM
This'll probably get merged with the Episode topic, but what the hey.

Gerak didn't seem like he was ready to bow down to me.

Priors seem to be Hok'Taur for lack of a better term. Advanced Humans. Not ascended, but possessing powers like Cassandra or Jonas in "Prophecy".

I doubt they'll do any Orii stuff on Atlantis.

Transwarp
July 29th, 2005, 05:58 PM
Another good question is when did the differences between the Ori and Alterans begin? And why do the Ori have a thing about fire? We've seen the Ancients as humans, we know the Alterans built the stargates now, so it seems they came here before ascending.
The questions just keep piling up.

Arative
July 29th, 2005, 06:01 PM
I enjoyed this episode. The Ori actually felt like a true meancing enemy, something I haven't seen in Stargate for a while. The Gou'ald after season 2, really became predicatable, defeat one, a more powerful one comes along, rinse and repeat. But the Ori seem different to me, true fanatics that won't stop because SG-1 happesn to kill a few of thier followers.

I also the RDA scenes as sort of passing the torch. That really came through in the scene with Mitchell and my take on the scene with Daniel was just a couple of buddies that would hang out whenever theygot together.

Overall, I'm happy with the direction season 9 has been going and can't wait to see the rest of the season and I really hope they go past season 9.

kharn the betrayer
July 29th, 2005, 06:02 PM
Damn this show is getting better as it goes on


and Vala didnt make me cringe at all again

babaganoosh
July 29th, 2005, 06:05 PM
Did you see the grings that the Priors used? More ivory than granite.

Lt. Elliot
July 29th, 2005, 06:06 PM
I somewhat liked Origin. Um, a few thoughts:

*The Ancients protected us from the Ori...at least they've done something with their lazy ascended selfs!
*The Ori remind me somewhat of Anubis with the whole taking over another body, but overall, they seem like the Goa'uld, but more sophistiacted
*Gerak, I do not like him all that much.
*Vala just makes me laugh and love her more and more this season.
*Mitchell just talked too much about his grandma. Got annoying.
*Smart idea Mitchell had with throwing the device into the Stargate vortex...so cool!
*The ending with Jack was really good. I loved it! It reminded me of Full Circle in the elevator..."Nice to see you too."

Overall, an okay episode. Um, 7/10 for me. The Ties that Bind I hope will be good!

warmbeachbrat
July 29th, 2005, 06:14 PM
I think I know where they're going for with this. You see, they want to make villains who are similar enough to Christians to piss off Christian protest groups enough to try to get the show banned.

These guys are just as over the top as the gu'ald but with less engaging personalities. I don't think the Ori are very interesting villains. And honestly, I'm not interested at all to see how this plays out. It looks to me like Ori won't be able to attack them directly, but they will be able to send armies (Because of the other ancients).

Wow...I just thought of something. In the Stargate world, there really *is* a war against men of faith! (Unlike the real world, where that's all a bunch of crap).


Hmmm, they don't seem similar to Christians to me. They seem more like Buddhists or Hindus (but not really those either) with their push towards "enlightenment." I must say that I am VERY intrigued by this season and am interested to see what happens next.

The Ori seem like Goa'uld in some ways, but different in a very sinister, powerful way. I can't quite put it into words, yet--I have to think about this episode some more.

As far as a war against men of faith--maybe not so much in the US and Europe, but the Fulong Gong and Christians in China, black Muslims, Christians and Animists in the Sudan, Christians in any number of places, Hindus, etc. all are persecuted and killed for their faith in many countries. It may not be an organized war, but they are being attacked, nonetheless.

I agree the Ori are not very engaging (they could all use a good personality transplant), but I do find them interesting. I'm not sure we've seen enough of them to figure out whether they can carry the season, but I'm more than willing to find out.

JanusAncient
July 29th, 2005, 06:15 PM
The rings were an improvement, and that city, was what I would expect of a great civilization. Why were the Ori restricted to that room, perhaps it served as some sort of medium, like the Doci, but should they not be somewhere grander, a higher plane, still it was was intriguing to see telekinetics, fascinating area, of possible evolutionary paths, I would like to see more advanced humans, with more astounding capabilities.

GateTraveler
July 29th, 2005, 06:15 PM
*Smart idea Mitchell had with throwing the device into the Stargate vortex...so cool!!

That was great. I should have seen that coming but somehow didn't.


*The ending with Jack was really good. I loved it! It reminded me of Full Circle in the elevator..."Nice to see you too."


These scenes just seem awkward to me (especially Origin). The characters do not seem natural around each other but maybe that is how it should play. Dunno.

ML61487
July 29th, 2005, 06:21 PM
What happened to that guy at the end. DId he become a Prior?Did he know that was going to happen or was he tricked into it?

Overall outstanding ep i really see what the producers are talking about when they say this is like the old sg-1. The writing and acting could not have been better. AWESOME

AGateFan
July 29th, 2005, 06:24 PM
Hmmm, I am going to have to watch this again before I can decide what I really thought about it. Off the top of my head I can say I have no problem with the Orii and think this plotline has great potential. However, it does kind of make me nervous for ratings and new viewers, I actually know people that wont watch Hellboy because they think its sacreligious. On the other hand it could pull in a bunch of viewers like the 2nd post indicated.

Overall on first viewing I liked the ep but thought there was just somthing.... missing. And Im not talking about the RDA scenes... what they couldnt get him and MS in the same room at the same time? They should have just left that out as badly as it was done.... Oh well, no good sendoff and no actual confirmation of where he went. Maybe we will get confirmation next ep.

I like Daneil trying to talk some since into the Prior and Doci, very Daniel. I feel kind of bad for him, he knows hes messed up caused a crusade against our galaxy by some big bad evil dudes plus he caused the horrible death of 2 inocent people.

I was impressed with Vala. She faced her second impending death very well. I think Tea'lc would have been proud.

Mitchell didnt have much to do. This ep he had the lines I couldnt understand instead of MS... dont know if he was talking fast or low or what but I couldnt really understand half of what he said.

So Garak is not just an annoying jaffa hes a potential murdering powermonger with his own first prime, thats disturbing. I see much annoying dialogue coming from him.

Tea'lc did he actually speak in this ep? He certainly looked good in it but he like Mitchell didnt seem to have much to do.

Doc was ok as was Landry and Lee. Walter was stellar as always (wheres Siler!!!)

I think the priors are scarier then the Doci. Doci were a bit OTT for me but the priors are just creepy.

I would give this ep a B- on first viewing. Still good but not as good as Avalon 1 and 2 in my opinion, which may change on second viewing. :)

chiefchucky
July 29th, 2005, 06:26 PM
yeeehaaww i like this new stuff. Things are gettin spicier!!!!!!

mindtwister
July 29th, 2005, 06:26 PM
That was a great episode, I'm looking forward to the rest of the season.
I'm going to like to see how far the Ori will go before they risk having to deal with the Ancients.

Dani347
July 29th, 2005, 06:30 PM
I didn't see anything anti Christian in this. And, I'm a Christian, although that really isn't important to the discussion. For one thing, the Ori are just Ancients, but unlike the Ancients we've met before, they've made themselves into gods and demand worship. They're highly evolved humans. And, there were various remarks that conveyed that the show wasn't saying don't believe in a higher power. Daniel is open to the idea that Ascension is the ultimate end, he just objected to the idea of forcing it. Mitchell had respect for his grandmother's belief in the Biblical God, and he also seemed to believe that there is a higher power controlling everything. No one is against believing.

I didn't see this as anti any religion, really. Just anti a sect of people of this particular belief. That these people believe in destroying anyone who doesn't agree. As we've seen, not all the Ancients feel that way, although the others go the opposite extreme and don't do anything.

AGateFan
July 29th, 2005, 06:33 PM
That was a great episode, I'm looking forward to the rest of the season.
I'm going to like to see how far the Ori will go before they risk having to deal with the Ancients.

You know I didnt get the since that the Ori were all that concerned about dealing with the Ancients. Kinda seemed like they consider the Ancients younger and stupider and traitors.

On the other hand I am getting a definit B5 Shadows Vs Vorlons vibe with is good cause that was an awesome show (IMHO).

GateTraveler
July 29th, 2005, 06:37 PM
One thing that I was really worried about after Avalon I has not happened and I am very relieved. I thought Avalon I and the King Arthur stuff was very cheesy due to all the humor. I was afraid that if the Orii were introduced that way then they would be a big joke - kind of like the Go'auld were getting to be (Jack always greeting them with sarcasm, etc.).

Well, after Avalon II and Origin I am pleased. The Orii are a very menacing and scary enemy. So far, so good.

Token
July 29th, 2005, 06:41 PM
I would have to disagree here. The little snippets of Jack in these episodes is a Jack I never knew. The guy looks half asleep. I love Jack but if he is going to sleepwalk through his scenes then he shouldn't be around at all. The word that comes to mind is "sad".
I have to agree with you. It was very sad to see how disconnected and awkward the scene was with Daniel. It looked like some of the scene was even shot using body doubles. The scene with Mitchell was OK. Passing the torch so to speak.

We still don't know any more about why Jack took the promotion.



On the episode, it was GREAT. Unlike some past seasons, this one appears to be getting better and better with each episode.

The story line was good. I'm waiting to see where they are going with it and for Sam to return to saving the world.

mindtwister
July 29th, 2005, 06:46 PM
You know I didnt get the since that the Ori were all that concerned about dealing with the Ancients. Kinda seemed like they consider the Ancients younger and stupider and traitors.

On the other hand I am getting a definit B5 Shadows Vs Vorlons vibe with is good cause that was an awesome show (IMHO).


I see that, from what i've seen i think the ori might under estimate the ancients power like you say they might consider them young stupid and traitors. Ultimately i don't think they would want to get into a war with each other it would be like oma and anubis.

the fifth man
July 29th, 2005, 06:51 PM
Great episode, in my opinion. Definitely like where tptb are going with the Ori. Different from the goa'uld, the Ori actually seem to think they are the good guys. Wouldn't that make fighting them all the more dramatic. Two sides, both equally believing the other is evil. Can't wait for the storyline to develop further. I know it may be early in the season still, but I'll tell you this, my fridays this year are definitely all booked.

AGateFan
July 29th, 2005, 07:04 PM
I didn't see anything anti Christian in this. And, I'm a Christian, although that really isn't important to the discussion. For one thing, the Ori are just Ancients, but unlike the Ancients we've met before, they've made themselves into gods and demand worship. They're highly evolved humans. And, there were various remarks that conveyed that the show wasn't saying don't believe in a higher power. Daniel is open to the idea that Ascension is the ultimate end, he just objected to the idea of forcing it. Mitchell had respect for his grandmother's belief in the Biblical God, and he also seemed to believe that there is a higher power controlling everything. No one is against believing.

I didn't see this as anti any religion, really. Just anti a sect of people of this particular belief. That these people believe in destroying anyone who doesn't agree. As we've seen, not all the Ancients feel that way, although the others go the opposite extreme and don't do anything.

Unfortunatly it doesnt matter whether you or I see it or not. People who tend to complain about stuff like that will likely see it. Lets face it, people who want to complain will see what they want to complain about in anything. Stargate is just making it a bit easier for them and I can see this storyline giving them an "in" to complain.

On the other hand I personally love storylines like this as I stated before Im a big B5 fan. I think if TPTB play this right this could be a much better, much more interesting storyline then the Go'uld ever were.

Mongo's Girl
July 29th, 2005, 07:13 PM
That Prior dude creeped me out. Eeeek!

Agree Mitchell didn't have much to do, but I love his "That's what I'm talking bout!" moments.

I could understand Daniel without rewinding my TiVo. :)

Very very disappointed in RDA's cameo. I know they wanted to give us a look at him, but I'd rather they hadn't. Please tell me that's not his last appearance this year, cause that ain't how I want to remember him. I don't think I can bear to watch that scene again. :(

ChevronSeven
July 29th, 2005, 07:18 PM
Oh, what has happened to this show? This is the darkest I have ever seen and it disturbs me. What made Stargate: SG-1 captivating to me was that it looked real - like it could actually be taking place right now. Now it's just too sci-fi.

And Jack? My poor Jack. That entire ending fell flat. It should have ended with Jack and Daniel. The Jack and Mitchell scene felt to me like it was "passing the torch" and I didn't need to be reminded again that Mitchell is the new guy. Mitchell's okay, but something's lacking. Maybe when Sam returns it'll feel better. But the soul is missing in this show right now.

the fifth man
July 29th, 2005, 07:19 PM
That Prior dude creeped me out. Eeeek!

Agree Mitchell didn't have much to do, but I love his "That's what I'm talking bout!" moments.

I could understand Daniel without rewinding my TiVo. :)

Very very disappointed in RDA's cameo. I know they wanted to give us a look at him, but I'd rather they hadn't. Please tell me that's not his last appearance this year, cause that ain't how I want to remember him. I don't think I can bear to watch that scene again. :(

Not sure if it is or not, but I agree with you. Would like to see a little better from O'Neill. One thing I did like though, was the kind of "passing the torch" to Mitchell scene in the F-302.

Seastallion
July 29th, 2005, 07:21 PM
Very good episode... :)

As far as I can tell, the Prior are either somewhat possessed, or have been 'artificially' advanced by the Ori. The Doci, seem to be 'archangels' of a sort. Obviously more advanced than the Prior, but still human mostly. Perhaps, they are a step below ascending themselves. It is clear that our galaxy will be able to expect a war on the physical plane. The Doci seemed to indicate, that the Ori would step up their recruitment of Priors and have the people they lead to form an army to go and conquer our galaxy. There will obviously be fighting in the physical plane, but what about the higher planes? Just how much could the Ancients protect us from the Ori directly? Which of them is more powerful? Are they equally powerful? Or perhaps it is a numbers game... are there more Ascended beings that agree with the Ancients, or do more of them agree with the Ori? If this the beginning of a new battle for years to come, then the Jaffa are going to have to get their act together to help us defeat this new threat. If they Ori cannot be themselves destroyed, then there would likely have to be a constant and proactive vigilance against the Priors and the troops that will be under their command. The Goa'uld were powerful, but they weren't that powerful, and they were also divided among themselves. The Ori are not. They are unified, and have real power to the point that they can certainly pass themselves off as gods.

This is going to be great...! :D

Dani347
July 29th, 2005, 07:22 PM
Unfortunatly it doesnt matter whether you or I see it or not. People who tend to complain about stuff like that will likely see it. Lets face it, people who want to complain will see what they want to complain about in anything. Stargate is just making it a bit easier for them and I can see this storyline giving them an "in" to complain.

On the other hand I personally love storylines like this as I stated before Im a big B5 fan. I think if TPTB play this right this could be a much better, much more interesting storyline then the Go'uld ever were.

But, that's no different than anything. Any storyline, someone can have objections to. I just don't see how this opens the door for specifically Christian complaints. I don't see the connection between the Ori and Christian belief. This seems so far from saying Christianity is wrong, or that any religion is wrong, that I'm just at a loss as to how someone else can see this episode as trying to say that.

Besides, if some Christians find it objectionable and protest, so what? I don't think it's going to have an effect on the show.

ToasterOnFire
July 29th, 2005, 07:24 PM
Wow, another ep where Vala didn't grate on me! Stunning! Of course, the trailer for the next ep indicates she's going to be back in "fine form" then, so we'll see...

Oddly the Ori didn't do much for me. I sort of got this "been there, done that" feeling with them as an enemy.

Went from neutral about Cam to dislike after his awkward greeting speech with his "bible thumping grandma." Eeesh.

And on the subject of awkward, Jack's "I'm hungry" comment after Daniel's confession that he was nervous was so out of place I cringed. Couldn't that have been written better??

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
July 29th, 2005, 07:26 PM
The Ori (When they were in that dude) sounded like the Borg Collective from Star Trek

RedGuard
July 29th, 2005, 07:27 PM
I think Origin really set the show up for several more seasons. It did stay true to the theme of false gods. Of course this time they actually have power. It is an interesting twist and gave me a sense of impending doom that may not be avoided.

Did anyone else think Daniel was right when he said he thought someone was watching? Maybe the ancients have been helping, after all, Earth was their home and the planet they chose to come back to and blend in with. This is the type of thing that makes Stargate interesting.

I am also interested in seeing the ships the Priors are going to build.:D

Osiris-RA
July 29th, 2005, 07:31 PM
I'll admit two things for this ep.

1. It was a little bit better than the first two - and by better I mean like, crow with salsa is better than just plain crow.

2. Vala was funnier this time around - and not that crude humour niether. I'll giver her that, she's funny - not deep - funny. Funny like Saturday Night Live funny. I'll say - I don't wanna see her vanish, I wanna see Carters reaction to her peskieness then she can get kidnapped by the Ori or something and be back for some guest spots.

So far, the Ori have made me giggle oodles. They're stiff cardboard characters whom I neither feel anything for nor wish to. The whole 'Hallowed be the Ori' thing made me laugh out loud first time around, second time an eye roll.

I'm getting incredibly sick of the Jaffa union thingy. Teal'c hardly said two words this ep! What, does Cj have a sore throat or something?? PTB can't give him a little courtesy as letting him speak before his legions of fans while Danny boy, bless him, can't seem to keep his mouth shut?? Anyway, the Ori are cute, I guess a bad guy a day keeps the cancelation police away. :rolleyes:

Nitpicks:

ROFL!! Daniel in tights! ROFLMAO!!! *just noticed that* :p

So...there's no table manners where Vala comes from? Dang, chomp right in, huh girl? :p That was pretty funny, Lol!

What happened to T's shirt? Did it shrink? Someone doesn't know how to use Tide Coldwash? They didn't have any extra large ones there? He's busting out people, is this professional onbase attire? :eek: :S :p

Could the Ori talk any slower? They sound like those weird tree people in LOTR. :S

Caroline is ... she does know she's not an android anymore, right? :S

OK, I'm all warm and fuzzy that Daniel and Vala made it home safe - but what about the people who get crispified instead!? What are they - sacrifices for the cause against these stupid Ori folk?? How horrible must it be to get back in your own body only to be tanned a few hundred shades! That was depressing...

End Nitpicks.

It's occured to me that the words 'enlightened', 'higher power' and some other word with a 'd' meaning really really superior were mentioned quite a few times. I'm confused, is Stargate now trying to climb the, 'how mysterious can you get' ladder as high as it can go? Cause if you go any higher, they'll end up saying that there is no God, god is just a collection of really uber powerful ascended humanoid alien lifeforms who have been protecting the universe and won't show their blessed being except to those who have acheived a certain level or "enlightenment" or whatever - which could fail the purpose of the show entirely - not that I know what the purpose is NOW. Are they trying to explain the Angels? How the prophets of the past saw angels or even God? Are they trying to explain humanity? Sure, it'd make more sense than the Big Bang theory, but then again, it's sho' nuff HYpocrisy! I liked Daniels line at the end when he says that he believe that during SG-1's escapades, he felt there was someone watching over them. He's so right there...

Mitchy, while actually having some good lines for a change, is annoying me. 'That's what I'm talkin' about!' is JACK'S LINE!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Anyhoo, all i can say for Mitch is 'Eh.' :rolleyes:

*siiiigghhhh* 'twas good to see Jack again - though kind of disapointing. *bleak sigh* The last of the Fantastic Four...

Overall, better than Avalon. I'm still relatively Anti-S9 though.

keppiezbt
July 29th, 2005, 07:39 PM
I see that, from what i've seen i think the ori might under estimate the ancients power like you say they might consider them young stupid and traitors. Ultimately i don't think they would want to get into a war with each other it would be like oma and anubis.

well anubis said the collective will of the others could banish another ascended....soo umm who knows what a whole ascended war would turn into.

great episode. learn so much. You definately know the alterans (ancients) and the ori were one and the same....daniel gets to that city by using rings!

how great is is that the anicents have been shielding us? i guess they were good for something.

I thought it was a good point that daniel said to vala that the universe is inifinite so you the ori can't know everything. it echoes earlier points that ascended doesn't make you all knowing.

this sets up a lot of good stuff and i really hope we see some ascended beings more in the mix....more so than just in the four horsemen

Mio
July 29th, 2005, 07:40 PM
Ooh. My opinion of Mitchell has improved.... (The 'Bible Thumper' comment made me laugh, as I used the same term to describe a few people like half an hour earlier.)

Overall, very good episode. I like the 'fiery' ascended being look, its pretty cool, so thats something that the Orii have over the Ancients simply white glowiness.

Oh, and Vala is still awesome ;)

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
July 29th, 2005, 07:41 PM
You know what noticed, at about halfway through the episode, after Vala and Daniel return to the house, when Vala looks at the mirror, you see the other woman. But when Daniel walks past, you don't see the other guy (he's suppose to be) walking past, you see {Michael} Shanks as Daniel walking past. I see they screwed up.

And one more thing, Origin is best episode of Season 9 thus far.

akimbo
July 29th, 2005, 07:42 PM
First reaction is that they "dumped" the whole rest of the series on us in one fail swoop: The Ori, the Doci, the Priors. A big 'ole whumping.

Not that its bad, just that its hard to decide whether this is a good or bad move since its all just laying there in a big pile of "OMG what just happened". Its kind of neat in that way. You don't really know how to react. If that was an intention, it found the mark. (In other words, I'm slightly ambiguous about the direction and I'm quite satisfied with that feeling.)

I loved Daniel's reaction in the speech: "You can kill me for saying that but that is what I believe...." It was proud, personal and possibly foolish for the rest of the race...but very Daniel.

The RDA stuff was quite flat by comparison (both with Daniel and Cameron). I understood the purpose of the scenes ("passing the torch" and all that), but they just didn't ring true for me emotionally on first viewing. It doesn't feel like the actors were on the same planet, let alone the same soundstage. Maybe a second view will let me be more objective.

Edited to fix my spelling. You'd think I'd know by now. :rolleyes:

ToasterOnFire
July 29th, 2005, 07:42 PM
But, that's no different than anything. Any storyline, someone can have objections to. I just don't see how this opens the door for specifically Christian complaints. I don't see the connection between the Ori and Christian belief. This seems so far from saying Christianity is wrong, or that any religion is wrong, that I'm just at a loss as to how someone else can see this episode as trying to say that.
The only connection I saw is when the Prior was talking at the SGC about coming to the unbelievers who have been sheltered by evil and whatnot. Cam turned to Landry and muttered something about the prior sounding like his grandma, who he stated earlier was a "bible-thumper". So I can see how some linked the Ori with Christianity in particular. I don't think it was a condemnation of a particular religion, just of a certain, zealot aspect shared by many religions over the centuries.

NightGloom
July 29th, 2005, 07:43 PM
It was good... I was kind of disappointed in it though.

-The Orii coming after Earth- It seemed like a mix between awaking the wraith and the Goa'uld in general. But more of awaking the wrath of a crazed cult. Can't the bad guys find us first sometime?

- The exterior shot of the "City of gods"- it was pirdy! For some reason it reminded me of LOTR drawings

- And Vala's seemingly lighthearted comments about burning to death disturbed me. I have to watch again and see if CB plays it off as some kind of defense mechanism or not. But Vala was more restrained this episode, which I liked a lot better. However, I did find it odd that she might make jokes about being burned to death after she was burned to death.

- TPTB seem to be coming dangerously close to modern day popular religions, so they better watch it or they'll be making people mad. (especially since a lot of Arturian legends have Christian undertones)

-RDA's cameo... completely wasted! The only thing I liked was Daniel's admittance to being scared. He has a right to be- first he finds out that spoiler for S8 Oma helped Anubis ascend and now that some are basically forming cults. And yet, we still don't know exactly where O'Neill went off to.

- "Who's counting?" "Teal'c"

- One of the Priors looked like Riff Raff from Rocky Horror Picture Show

I did like how the Orii consider the Ancients evil. Hopefully a showdown in the future, although I doubt it because of the whole free will thing.

Seshat
July 29th, 2005, 07:57 PM
I'm more pro-S9 than I was last week, that's for certain. :D I agree with Dani347 and everyone who said that the new themes are NOT trying to be anti-Christian or anti-any religion even. In fact, IMO the writers went out of their way in the conference room scenes to stand up for everyone having the right to have an individual personal belief system if they so chose.

To paraphrase Dani, this ep was...Just anti a sect of people of a particular belief...who believe in destroying anyone who doesn't agree. Watched the news lately, folks? Extremists like to wrap themselves in "religion" to excuse their hideous crimes. So they can commit violence that NO religion approves of. If anything, this new theme is a commentary on THOSE people alone.

Liked the IDEA behind the Jack scenes. Didn't like the execution of them one bit. Obvious use of stand-ins...seems they did the best they could, but still...Pity RDA hadn't had more time to wake up from his nap before shooting began. I honestly wondered if he was feeling well when this was shot. :(

Vala and the apple made me laugh. Taking a bite and offering it to Daniel. Garden of Eden, anyone? Apparently Daniel got the analogy as well. :p

Dani347
July 29th, 2005, 07:58 PM
I think it's an official rule of the Hero's Handbook. The heroes have to have some hand in the problem first of all. Unless the heroes are the clueless type who accidentally fall into trouble, and then it could be because of the enemy seeking them out. But, since SG1 isn't clueless anymore, they have to be the ones to make first contact.

Which modern day religion professes that people must believe, and resorts to killing them if they don't? I mean the religion itself, not the zealots who claim to follow said religion.

mryan
July 29th, 2005, 07:59 PM
After watching SG-1's "Origin" I am very impressed. I think this episode will be remembered as one of Stargate's best. The writing was very well done and the special effects were dazzling.

I am aware that ratings for Stargate have been falling (which I myself don't understand since I'm a huge fan and would love the show even if it sucked), but there is no doubt in my mind that ratings for this episode will be high.

And let me say this. If this episode is any reflection of what's to come in Season 9 it's going to be a season to remember!

This one rocked.

The Fifth
July 29th, 2005, 08:01 PM
I though this episode was great. It introduced the basis of the Ori religion and set a counterbalance to the Ancients. The Ancients being the only "higher beings" was slightly uninteresting. As for the future, I hope that things move rapidly into the action and dire situations then slow down while progressing through that.

warmbeachbrat
July 29th, 2005, 08:05 PM
What I liked:

"Wherever you go, there you are."

"I had a grandma, too."

So much information packed into this episode--lots of exposition, but it didn't seem slow or boring.

Mitchell

Landry

Daniel and Vala interaction

Tea'lc's counting

The cool "alabaster" transport rings (someone mentioned those on another thread, or maybe it was this thread--I can't keep track. Sorry--I'd like to give credit.)

Vala being funny without being smutty

Things I didn't like:

Ger'ak (sp?)

RDA's phoned in performance

Burning people alive

AGateFan
July 29th, 2005, 08:05 PM
After watching SG-1's "Origin" I am very impressed. I think this episode will be remembered as one of Stargate's best. The writing was very well done and the special effects were dazzling.

I am aware that ratings for Stargate have been falling (which I myself don't understand since I'm a huge fan and would love the show even if it sucked), but there is no doubt in my mind that ratings for this episode will be high.

And let me say this. If this episode is any reflection of what's to come in Season 9 it's going to be a season to remember!

This one rocked.

Actually the ratings were the exact same the first two weeks. The season opening's ratings were a bit down from last Seaons opening but they were up from last seasons Midseason opening in Jan.... So basically I think the ratings have remained relativily consistant the last year or so. Lets hope thats good enough for Sci fi.

JanusAncient
July 29th, 2005, 08:07 PM
Did anyone else notice, that playing the Doci, was Ralph Fiennes, who will also take the rold of Lord Voldamort, in the upcoming, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, this November, and the outer shell of the City of the Gods, was reminiscent of Lord of the Rings.

NightGloom
July 29th, 2005, 08:08 PM
I wasn't offended, I'm sure that most avid Stargate watchers won't be offended. But there's a possibility that a person just flipping through the channels and watches a new episode could take it as a statement on religion. Whether it be Christianity or Buddhism or basically any other religion that you can name. The Ancient religions are one thing, but Arthurian legends are more recent that do have some comments on Christianity. I'm just saying that there's a possibility that someone could take it the wrong way. Just look at The DaVinci Code. I'm not sure if it was meant to be provocative or not, but now there's books and television shows trying to disprove a book found in the fiction section with fiction written on the side.

Redwall
July 29th, 2005, 08:09 PM
Forget the Christian comparisons, here's the real Ori:

Ascension/Enlightenment -- The Force
Doci -- Dark Jedi Master
Prior -- Dark Jedi Knight

Did no one else think, "I find your lack of faith disturbing," in the scene where the Prior kills the heretic?

I agree the Doci was rather boring, although the Priors are still creepy, albeit making me expect them to pull out a lightsaber.

Gerak was rather disappointing; I was looking forward to his confrontation with the Prior, but that was an anticlimax and Gerak ended up doing nothing other than ramble on about false gods and manipulative humans. We know, we know. And I like the Jaffa politics.

MarshAngel
July 29th, 2005, 08:11 PM
The only connection I saw is when the Prior was talking at the SGC about coming to the unbelievers who have been sheltered by evil and whatnot. Cam turned to Landry and muttered something about the prior sounding like his grandma, who he stated earlier was a "bible-thumper". So I can see how some linked the Ori with Christianity in particular. I don't think it was a condemnation of a particular religion, just of a certain, zealot aspect shared by many religions over the centuries.
Actually that story from the book of origin (similar to bible) where the guy gets water from the rock reeks of Moses, so there were at least two references, and a couple allusions which they pacified towards the end in the briefing room with the references to the ascended beings not precluding the existence of god.
There was also a mild reference to hell fire and it's meaning on Earth.

I don't think they will alienate anyone, I come from some bible thumpers myself and it doesn't bother me any. There just wasn't any negativity in it that anyone should take offence. I don't think, given the culture from which they originate, that they can avoid some similarities when dealing with religion.

tony
July 29th, 2005, 08:21 PM
i agree with the episode i believe it was absolutly amazing... I MEAN AMAZING i am really looking foward to this new enemy and i like the tention between the new Jaffa nation and earth.. i bet the asgard will play a good role aswell its gunna be great.. and lemme tell you those ori dont know what they getting themselfs into we are a TUFF and WARLIKE GALEXY! ! !

asher_cross
July 29th, 2005, 08:33 PM
Did anyone else notice, that playing the Doci, was Ralph Fiennes, who will also take the rold of Lord Voldamort, in the upcoming, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, this November, and the outer shell of the City of the Gods, was reminiscent of Lord of the Rings.

The actor was not Ralph Fiennes but Julian Sands, best known (at least to me) from the movie Naked Lunch. (Imagine, though, if we could get A-list actors like that to guest star on SG-1/A....oh, the possibilities)

BTW, nice to see that they're going back to the tried-and-true sci-fi cliche of the bad guys having British accents. ;)

shinyredpants
July 29th, 2005, 08:34 PM
I was disappointed with this ep after 901 and 902. Maybe it was the ori or i dunno...i guess it didnt have any "gusto" for me. i dont really have any reasons to say why i was disappointed, i guess it just wasnt as fun as the other two eps were =)

JanusAncient
July 29th, 2005, 08:35 PM
When the Prior was speaking in the briefing room, he said "they did defeat the old spirits, and cast them out," do you think that he was speaking of, the Ori being the reason that the Ancients left their home galaxy, or could it have been something that happened, after the Ancients ascended?

Nikkirose
July 29th, 2005, 08:36 PM
Normally I dont post or read in the episode threads, since I used to see bickering in them, but this episode needed an input.

-When they started releasing info about season 9, I was very very very skeptical, but was very interested in the Ori portion. And so far I wasnt that disappointed with the episodes.. till now!
-The Vala character has grown on me. At first I really didnt like her one bit, but I think they are writing her better this season.
-The Cameron character.. eh. I really have no huge input on him. I'm always gonna miss the Jack character and his humor.
-As the overall episode... it sucked! I liked the first two, but this as a conclusion to a 3-parter stunk!
-And I gotta say RDA didnt look well. And for possibly being his last episode of Stargate.. what kind of "send-off" was that? He shows up the last 2-3 minutes of the episode. He did better in the first episode of this season. And before you critize me about that, let me say that I think that RDA taking time off to spend with his daughter is awesome! Family must always come first! I'm not mad that he's leaving (sad, but not mad), I'm more mad at how they are dealing with the character. They should of had him moving on, show him leaving the SGC/SG1 and how he's dealing with it. Not just a pop in to say "I'm hungry"!
-I really wasnt getting how evil these Ori are suppose to be. Yes I get it, they are the big bad for this season (and possibly beyond), but YAWN!
-I hope they dont do away with the Vala vs. Daniel aspect. I just love the like/hate relationship they've got going on.
-And I have to agree with others when they say that CJ isnt really being used this season. The Jaffa thing is boring me to tears. Thank goodness I was able to FF through that stuff.
-The whole thing with Cameron comparing them to his grandma, was funny. Until he just kept bringing it up. He should have left it at 1 or 2 comparisons.
-Could MS please please slow down on the talking. I never really saw what people were saying when they mentioned it before. But now SHEESH! I got every word, but my head was starting to spin.
-Good for Daniel to stand up for what he believes in!! I almost clapped at the end of what he said!

As far as rating the episode I give it 1 star. Lets hope the rest of the season does better!

AGateFan
July 29th, 2005, 08:38 PM
The actor was not Ralph Fiennes but Julian Sands, best known (at least to me) from the movie Naked Lunch. (Imagine, though, if we could get A-list actors like that to guest star on SG-1/A....oh, the possibilities)

BTW, nice to see that they're going back to the tried-and-true sci-fi cliche of the bad guys having British accents. ;)

Speaking of that was I hearing things or did Vala say bloodysomthing.... thats like UK swearing isnt it? Then again her planet was in Camulus territory and he was a Celtic god so maybe the language progressed the same.

akimbo
July 29th, 2005, 08:39 PM
The actor was not Ralph Fiennes but Julian Sands, best known (at least to me) from the movie Naked Lunch. (Imagine, though, if we could get A-list actors like that to guest star on SG-1/A....oh, the possibilities)

Ahhhh Julian Sands. Just watched him in the director's cut of "A Room with a View" last night. Lovely. :sigh:

Michelle05
July 29th, 2005, 08:41 PM
I loved this episode. I think Daniel was wonderful trying to convince the Doci that they would be wasting their time coming to our galaxy. MS did a great, understated job all the way through. Plus he looks gorgeous in leggings and tunic ;)

I loved Vala; she is becoming more sympathetic but still has that necessary edge. Loved her lying on the table while Daniel studied the book.

I'm growing to like Mitchell very much. His protectiveness of people who aren't quite on his team yet is very endearing. While he's very energetic, he's not stealing the show at all; he's making me like him by his actions and attitude. Landry is becoming more 3-dimensional for me too. I like his cadence and intonation; it's interesting.

My mind wandered during the Jaffa stuff. Will have to watch that again.

I am sooo grateful we got a nice scene between Jack and Daniel. I was afraid it would be all superficial jokes, but there was so much depth there. I love that Daniel got Jack to admit he wasn't sorry that Daniel had missed the Daedalus. Of course he wasn't sorry!

I agree the scene with Mitchell and Jack was very flat. Jack just didn't seem to care to be there.

The Ori are truly a scary, formidable enemy. However, I think the preachy talk could get very boring very quickly. There's no shades of gray to it, and if they overdo it the Ori will become caricatures. But so far, so very good.

Michelle

Jace021903
July 29th, 2005, 08:43 PM
I liked it.

I thought it was a good introduction to the new enemy--an enemy that is scarier than the Gou'ald. As someone said, pretenders are not nearly as frightening as true believers.

I think the new folks are settling into their characters. I especially liked Landry this week.

MS and CJ were great as usual.

Vala was funny without being too OTT. The Adam/Eve/apple reference was kind of cute given that Daniel was reading from the book of Origins. (Genesis)

I have to admit that I was a little nervous when Bible thumpers were discussed--but the last briefing room scene saved it. (Bad pun, sorry) It was nice to see some respect for the idea of the existence of God. As a Christian, that's all I ask for.

RDA looked very tired, but it was nice to see him again.

Overall, I am very satisfied with the beginning of season 9.

Jace

asher_cross
July 29th, 2005, 08:43 PM
Yeah, I liked him in this ep, he seemed to chew the scenery a lot better than a lot of the System Lords I've seen on SG-1, and I hope his character is the face of the Ori for at least a few eps. Course, the British accent helped to make them a bit more menacing to me.

Dana_Jeanne
July 29th, 2005, 08:46 PM
Wow. I'm practically speechless. What a great 'ending' to the trilogy. The Boys at Bridge were right about this being some of Michael's best work; he's absolutely phenomenal!

I love the Orii, the Doci (Julian Sands? I didn't recognise him!), the proctors(?), fantastic bad guys.

I like how Vala has turned a bit more serious as the episodes have aired.

The pacing/editing and suspense in all three episodes is just excellent. I was in tears when Daniel and Vala finally switched places with Harry and Sally and I realised the other two were going to die. I didn't even really know them, and it still hurt!

I think one of the things I've really liked about these past three episodes, and especially Origin, is that everyone acts like they CARE what happens to each other. Mitchell didn't want to leave Daniel and Vala to go to the planet and collect the Proctor, and Landry told Daniel and Vala he was glad they were all right. This was all *Personal* rather than anonomous battles in space.

We're getting to know these people as they get to know each other which makes us care about them.

Very very good work by Cooper. It harks back to Maternal Instinct and the great episodes he wrote in the early years.

I was extremely disappointed in RDA's cameo; if he's going to be in the show, then he should actually be in the room with the person he's supposedly acting with. His lines were wooden, HE looked wooden and there was simply no life there. Especially when compared with Michael Shanks who's acting did seem real and natural.

Dana Jeanne

Bobthespirit
July 29th, 2005, 08:46 PM
Ack, O'Neill doesn't have enough TIG to make Major General. :b

One could argue that they represent Muslims, or Jews. Y'know, since they all preach the same things. Don't go labeling it anti-Christian half-cocked. But this isn't the Politics board, so I digress.

The alabaster Rings were pretty neat.

It's not anti-christian. What I said, was that it seems custom tailored to make unreasonable people think it is, in order to garner negative press from 'uncool' people and bolster ratings. It's a press strategy I'm going to coin 'The Graft Theft Auto strategy'. Get kids to like something by making their parents really, really hate it.

As for similarity to christians...they seemed like evil alien missionaries. Especially the priars. Come on, I kept expecting one of them to say "NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!"

Our chief weapon is surprise. Surprise and strange pupilless eyeballs..our two wepaons are surprise, strange pupilless eyeballs, and cool force tricks...THREE weapons...

Not modern christians, of course. Except that some of their language seems frighteningly similar to...(nope, not getting into that). As Mitchell said, "This guy sounds like my Grandma".

The2ndQuest
July 29th, 2005, 08:50 PM
Definitely the best episode of the three parter so far (which definitely got progressively darker).

And ya know, these Ori are the first SG villian to really be truely frightening- and it's not just the Jeremy Irons looking fellow either.
The idea of religious fanatics and (insert religious text of your choosing)-thumpers actually being able to wield and inflict the "righteous" power of their doctrine to enforce their beliefs upon people is truely terrifying.
And the fact that they have the ability do so upon fairly advanced and educated civilizations really steps them up a few notchs from the Goa'uld, who relied on more primitive and ignorant societies to achieve the same effect.
Add to that the "pretenders" vs "true-believers" aspect pointed out by otehr posters here, it adds up to one scary big baddie ;)


"Hey- what the hell are you doing here?"
"Nice to see you too."

"Well, I suppose after you've saved the world 7 or 8 times..."
"Well, who's counting?"
"Teal'c, actually...he mentions it quite a bit."

Bobthespirit
July 29th, 2005, 08:54 PM
Definitely the best episode of the three parter so far (which definitely got progressively darker).

And ya know, these Ori are the first SG villian to really be truely frightening- and it's not just the Jeremy Irons looking fellow either.
The idea of religious fanatics and (insert religious text of your choosing)-thumpers actually being able to wield and inflict the "righteous" power of their doctrine to enforce their beliefs upon people is truely terrifying.
And the fact that they have the ability do so upon fairly advanced and educated civilizations really steps them up a few notchs from the Goa'uld, who relied on more primitive and ignorant societies to achieve the same effect.
Add to that the "pretenders" vs "true-believers" aspect pointed out by otehr posters here, it adds up to one scary big baddie ;)

They're scary, all right. They just don't really have a lot of characterization beyond being evil. All the gu'ald had distinct personalities...all the Ori have the same personality, which is frankly, a very cheesy personality. They have the same MO as the Vorlons but don't have that cool vague doublespeak that made it okay for them.

TenderfootScribe
July 29th, 2005, 09:05 PM
Liked the IDEA behind the Jack scenes. Didn't like the execution of them one bit. Obvious use of stand-ins...seems they did the best they could, but still...Pity RDA hadn't had more time to wake up from his nap before shooting began. I honestly wondered if he was feeling well when this was shot. :(

Vala and the apple made me laugh. Taking a bite and offering it to Daniel. Garden of Eden, anyone? Apparently Daniel got the analogy as well. :p

RDA just looked like he didn't feel comfortable. I don't know what's happening behind the scenes, but as a viewer, that Jack and Daniel scene was just very uncomfortable. I still have the earliers seasons to comfort me...

When Vala grabbed the apple I cringed. Just as eating the apple in the garden of Eden preceding humans learning of evil, Vala's snacking preceded the introduction of the Orri (sp?). I figured her choice of snack wasn't a coincidence.

Catherine

Calicto
July 29th, 2005, 09:07 PM
I seriously hope Earth does mess up and send the Ori to the Ida Galaxy and Pegasus Galaxy as well.

Anyways, there are other threads to add on. *cough* Origin Episode thread *cough*

asher_cross
July 29th, 2005, 09:08 PM
I hope they mine the whole aspect of the Ori thinking they are in the right ....one thing the Goa'uld lacked was personality; they sorta knew they were evil but wanted to keep the power.

I thought an ep coming from the perspective of a newly "Priored," young and passionate Prior who gets captured by SG-1 and can't 'flame-on' yet, possibly stick him in a room with Daniel trying to get info from him/debate the whole Ori issue would be cool.

majorsal
July 29th, 2005, 09:15 PM
okay, just finished watching it -

i liked it. not overwhelmingly, but that's hard happen without my loves of this show (sam, jack, and sam/jack). but the show's writing is wonderful, and every new thing and person is connecting.

one scene i didn't care for was when lam was being argumentative with landry about disconnecting daniel and vala. whether she's having probs working with her dad, shut it down and be professional.

i'm glad we had more time with landry. *hugs beau bridges*

>always< glad to see more of mitchell. (so glad they hired ben browder)

not enough teal'c.

lou gossett could act while in a coma and still impress me.

vala was good.

jack... he was bland, just like in the jack-landry scene in avalon 1. i don't like that. :( (((((rda)))))

as for next week's previews... :confused: this overabundance of daniel and vala is starting to make me :S.


i miss (((sam))).



sally :)

illuminarok
July 29th, 2005, 09:40 PM
I think it's going to be funny watching the Ori's followers try to tell the Asgard that they have to believe in them etc.etc. I can just hear Thor now...

Hyperspace
July 29th, 2005, 09:45 PM
^^^
LOL @ Thor vs. Ori!!!

This ep was good, although *sigh* the Goa'uld were just defeated, the Replicators gone, could we have a cold war instead? LOL, the work is never undone, so its "Wraith for Atlantis" and "Ori for SG-1"...

..I wish SG-1 had a policy like Starfleet in Star Trek had after the disastrous first contact with the Klingons...COVERT SURVEILLANCE first!!!! Don't give away your name, identity, planet of origin...

...but then we wouldn't have an alien super-race building a fleet of ships to attack us now wouldn't we!!!

This episode was very interesting, sad to see the two 'avatars' that Vala and Daniel inhabited die though, plus the other guy.

As for religiousity, I think the Priors are indeed a send-up of 'Crusaders' or any other type of religious zealot who would destroy all 'nonbelievers.' And the Ori vs. Ancients are like the Prophets vs. Pah-Wraiths in Star Trek: DS9. The end opens the door to other faiths, or non-faiths.

One thing that disturbs me deeply is the Jaffa leaders' willingness to entertain thoughts of joining the Ori religion...scary.

I also would not like to see the Ori become another Goa'uld-size dominant force in the galaxy. It would make SG-1's work over the years meaningless.

tsaxlady
July 29th, 2005, 09:52 PM
Overall I enjoyed tonight episode. MS slowed down enough that you could understand what he was saying tonight. I liked Avalon pt 1 was a little disappointed in part 2 but Origin was better than last week. So far we are of to a pretty good start for a 9th season. I like Vala more this season than I did last year and think she would be a good reaccuring character. I would like to see CJ have more to do, so far this season we have seen/heard very little from him. I'm beining to like Mitchell. RDA's role/performance was a disappointment tonight. Hopefully we will see him again one day on Stargate and he will be back to the Jack that we have grown to love over the last 8 seasons. I am really missing Carter though and look forward to her return.

bravesmom63
July 29th, 2005, 09:55 PM
Liked the IDEA behind the Jack scenes. Didn't like the execution of them one bit. Obvious use of stand-ins...seems they did the best they could, but still...Pity RDA hadn't had more time to wake up from his nap before shooting began. I honestly wondered if he was feeling well when this was shot. :(
Yeah, well, I have to agree with you there. I understand the man not wanting to do this anymore, but if he agreed to film a couple of scenes he could at least have SHOWED UP and done the job they were paying him for.


Vala and the apple made me laugh. Taking a bite and offering it to Daniel. Garden of Eden, anyone? Apparently Daniel got the analogy as well. :p

LOL at this, too. The symbolism was quite blatant.

I did like this ep-mostly. MS looked yummy and that was a big part of it-- shallow, I know. ;)

It'll be interesting to see what kind of problems arise between Teal'c and Garak and the Jaffa leadership.

And I just realized that I didn't miss Sam at all. :(

Excali5033
July 29th, 2005, 10:07 PM
One thing that disturbs me deeply is the Jaffa leaders' willingness to entertain thoughts of joining the Ori religion...scary.

Gerak only said the Jaffa seek enlightenment, something we've known since we first met Oma. I highly doubt they'd be willing to submit to such a harsh doctorine after escaping from another.

Fsudryden
July 29th, 2005, 10:23 PM
Now I disagree with the people that say the Orii are bland and stale.

I believe that is exactly what they have to be. Do you want them dancing and doing musical numbers as they advance towards our galaxy. How bout an Ompa Loompa melody from the 70's wonka movie.

Seriously, these guys are zealots. In that respect there are completely focused on there doctrine and forcing it on everyone. There is no room for individuality in that department. The Priors and Doci each have there role and they fullfil it.

I agree about RDA's scenes.

Now someone correct me if I am wrong about the shooting schedule here.
It's my understanding that SG-1 films between April and August. If that is the case and RDA wants to spend more time with his daughter that is cool, but dont tell us the shooting schedule interferes with that. A regular father see's his kids after 5pm and on Saturday's and Sundays. RDA see's his daughter at least 8 months out of a year? Not to mention the shooting time is around summer break where she can go up to Vancouver with her father. So I dont buy the fact that he is leaving to spend time with his daughter. Just say you have been doing T.V. for over 14 years and you want to retire. Don't treat us like idiots. You can do like 6 episodes of cameos in like 4 days and go home to your daughter again.

Anyway great show setting everything up for the future. I loved the doom and gloom of seeing in my head zealots building an advanced armada of starships to clense our galaxy of none believers. Cant wait to see the rest of the season.

Liebestraume
July 29th, 2005, 10:45 PM
I think I know where they're going for with this. You see, they want to make villains who are similar enough to Christians to piss off Christian protest groups enough to try to get the show banned.I see where you come from, but I agree with the poster who said that the closest analogy one could draw would be the crusaders, and that most Christians today would have problems identifying with that.

So perhaps we could debate "if not Christian then some other religion(s)" but I'd rather think this episode was not so much about theology but the power of belief. Which is one of the reason I enjoyed it.

The Orii's are using a belief system to enslave people. Then you have the "heretics" who were willing to die for what they believed in. But none said it better than Daniel: "... this is what I believe in. You may kill me, but you are not going to change my mind."

I am extremely pleased to see the return of the old Daniel -- he has seen many worlds, ascended, descend; he might have been seasoned, but he still is an idealist. I think that was the best part of tonight's episode for me.

And I love Beau Bridges as the new general. That man sure can act! :)

whatswiththehairtealc
July 29th, 2005, 10:54 PM
this ep was slow ass hell i thought, no pun intended. but i liked what the writers are doing with the orii. and i cant get enough of the whole "hollowed are the orii",but the whole "the path to inlightenment is through bla bla bla" its real hard to follow sometimes. its like wait what are they trying to say? at least the gould were plain and easy to understand their motives. but then again maybe that will make the orii more interesting villians. I think daniels last line said it all. "dont you feel like someone was watching over us before, cause now im scared" not and exact quote but you get the point. it will be interesting to see if the accended ancients help out now that the sides arent really fair. and lets see how the asgard tie into it do they have to worship the orii too?

all in all this will be a good season IMO!!!!

Jarnin
July 30th, 2005, 12:00 AM
I think the writers are connecting the Ori to religious extremism. It's not about a certain type of religion, it's about the extreme branches of all religions that takes things way too far. I mean, the Ori are basically what religious extremism looks like; 6 hours of daily prayer, followed by dinner and heretic burning for entertainment.

It's the popular subject these days, makes sense they'd base the Ori on it.

morjana
July 30th, 2005, 12:05 AM
Okay -- show of hands. Who thought of "Return of the Archons" tonight while watching SG1's "Origin?" Even in "Return of the Archons," their version of the Priors, the Lawgivers, carried a staff. If at the end of this season, it turns out the Ori is really an Ancient (or Alteran) supercomputer that's become sentient and is literally trying to fulfill its programming -- well, darn, I'll be disappointed.

And the Dorci's eyes glowed while controlled by the Ori.

Highlights of this episode: Mitchell realizing that to destroy the Communication device, he needed to toss it into the kawoosh of the Stargate. Very good, Mitchell! And that set of the village is just astonishing with the amount of detail. I know we'll see it redressed in episodes from both SG1 and SGA in the future, and it will be fascinating to see the changes and additions.

And we meet Gerak (Louis Gossett, Jr.) for the first time tonight. Will he create problems with the new Jaffa nation and Earth?

Lovely to see Jack O'Neill in a brief scene with Daniel, and riding shotgun with Mitchell in a F302. And we still haven't heard on screen yet where Jack O'Neill is supposed to be in the Stargate Universe...Missing Sam Carter very much as well. Three more episodes to go, and she'll be back.

And Vala is becoming easier to watch, certainly a lot less annoying. I wonder now if that was the intention of the writers -- introduce her as the annoying, irritating, shrill character -- and then watch the process of her redemption over the six-episode story arc? Redemption has always been the cornerstone of the series.

Morjana

Hyperspace
July 30th, 2005, 12:15 AM
^^^
"You will be absorbed!!!" ...by the Ori!!!

LOL.

One thing I wondered, considering how Daniel 'unlocked' some additional Ancient knowledge in "Reckoning, pt. 2" maybe he has more insight into these 'evil ascended Ancients'? And wouldn't it be a violation of Ancient ascendancy to interact with the 'regular universe'? I think it may be like the other S9 thread, 'Ancient War'...

vikingjedi
July 30th, 2005, 12:42 AM
Man what a great episode. The Ori are some scary freaks and I definitely have to disagree with the comment that they are anything like Christians. In fact I think they are the exact opposite.

The good ancients are like Christians, the Ori are like demon worshippers. Check the fire as an example, or the demonic possession, or even the concept of eliminating free will (which is the opposite of Christianity).

It looks like Daniel has now become the lead character in the show. So far so good. Will be even better when Carter returns.

Bottom line this episode ruled and whomever came up with the new villians made a great decision and deserve a lot of credit.

4 out of 5 stars :)

morjana
July 30th, 2005, 12:57 AM
Did anyone else notice, that playing the Doci, was Ralph Fiennes, who will also take the rold of Lord Voldamort, in the upcoming, Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, this November, and the outer shell of the City of the Gods, was reminiscent of Lord of the Rings.

That was actor Julian Sands, not Ralph Fiennes.

Morjana

aAnubiSs
July 30th, 2005, 02:52 AM
I think Origin is one of the best SG1 episodes ever. I personally love to see extreme religious people in Sci-fi. Possibly because I just can't understand people putting religion over common sence. So for me it's like christmas seeing people poo on religion in general. B5 did it and now SG1 to some degree.

Love that TPTB aren't scared to use extreme fanatics in their show(s?) when the real world is what it is atm. Personally I see a bigger connection between Origin-Christianity then to any other religion. That might be because I don't like christianity that much.

LORD MONK
July 30th, 2005, 02:52 AM
That was kick butt. The hole bringing the Ori in part.

Jonisa
July 30th, 2005, 04:48 AM
I too found the episode to be very good. I was completely engrossed from start to finish. In fact, I have been for three episodes in a row now, which I wasn't able to say last year--there were quite a few episodes in Season 8 where I either ff'd the tape or wandered away from the television in disinterest.

Some parts I especially enjoyed were:

The Orii: They are seriously creepy. I think it was MS who said on the preview something on the order that the show can only be as good as the villains, and these villains are very powerful and extremely disturbed. The SGC has their work cut out for them.

Daniel: I smiled when he talked about how they were "explorers" and when he tried and tried to explain their position to that prior...and the doci. That is so Daniel. Yes, he's changed and become more military-minded to some extent, but he's still a communicator at heart. This makes the second time he's inadvertently exposed earth to a serious threat from some serious villains. I felt awfully bad for him at the end of the episode.

Vala: I love her. Love, love, love! She adds so much to the show, and the love/hate relationship she has with Daniel is fantastic. What a lot of chemistry those two have. I wish she was staying longer, but I can see why she can't. She wasn't over the top at all in this episode, which shows she knows when things are serious. I'm really hoping she can come back--soon!

General Landry: I liked seeing him mellow and soften a bit in this episode. He's not afraid to face problems head on either, as evidenced by his meeting with Garek and his response to the Orii.

Dr. Lam: What a strong character. I'm liking her a lot. She's much better than that rather bland doctor they had last year.

Mitchell and Teal'c didn't have a lot to do last night, but I know that will change in future episodes, so that didn't bother me much.

The two scenes with Jack? I can see, if someone is a huge Jack fan and hoping to find out a lot about what he's up to, where they were a bit of a disappointment. Jack did seem rather...lifeless, I guess is the word I'd used. IMO, RDA has seemed rather disinterested in the role the past two years and it seemed to me to come across in his performance for quite some time, so I wasn't all that put off last night. Maybe he'll put in another appearance later in the season. I know that a lot of Jack fans would love that. :)

I have to confess I didn't spare Sam a thought either last night or last week. That's more because of the fact that I was engrossed in a good story than because her character won't add a lot to the show. When she comes back I'll probably wonder how the show managed without her. :D

GateTraveler
July 30th, 2005, 05:10 AM
So for me it's like christmas seeing people poo on religion in general. B5 did it and now SG1 to some degree..

I think you either missed a few scenes or missed the point entirely. The point of the episode was not to "poo on religion in general". The point was to show the danger and evil of religious fanaticism. We are seeing that today with people willing to blow themselves and a bunch of innocents up in the name of a religion (not Christianity BTW). The conference room scenes made it very clear that there is respect both for religion andChristianity.


Personally I see a bigger connection between Origin-Christianity then to any other religion. That might be because I don't like christianity that much.

Nice to see that you are willing to admit that your connection is based on your obvious bias against Christianity. I'll admit that there are fanatic Christians out there that miss the entire point of the religion they claim but the most prominent religious fanatics are on the front pages of the newspaper every day. I would think there is a bigger tie to that kind of evil than to today's Christians.

keshou
July 30th, 2005, 05:15 AM
Liked the IDEA behind the Jack scenes. Didn't like the execution of them one bit. Obvious use of stand-ins...seems they did the best they could, but still...Pity RDA hadn't had more time to wake up from his nap before shooting began. I honestly wondered if he was feeling well when this was shot. :(
I was wondering the same thing - if he was feeling well. I think I remember reading that RDA broke his ankle sometime in the spring. He seemed to be moving very gingerly and perhaps it was difficult for him to stand very long without some pain in the old joints. I definitely think there was a stand-in for all the shots that didn't require him head on. But yeah - I was rather disappointed. I think I'll just choose to remember Jack the way he used to be. :)

Overall I didn't enjoy Origin as much as Avalon 2. In Avalon 2 they ended with some scenes that were really dramatic and pushed the envelope in ways I wasn't expecting. I was more wrapped up in that story. You knew they weren't going there twice so the prospective immolation of Daniel and Vala didn't have as much impact. Although if they'd lingered on Harris and Sallis when they jumped back that might have been really dramatic (and sad. :(

*The Ori. Well they're certainly powerful. I prefer my villains to have a few layers - and not just OTT super badguys -- so I'll be waiting to see how this develops.

* Hallowed be the Ori, Hallowed be the Ori.....okay I got it. In fact it will be ringing in my ears for days. :D Don't think the actors playing the Priors had any trouble remembering their lines. Although they had to remember to walk v..e..r..y... slowly. I can just hear the director - "walk like you got a stick up your ***"! :rolleyes: And thanks for everyone who mentioned Julian Sands and the connection to "Room With A View". I wondered why he looked familiar! :)

*Mitchell still seems to be a work in progress. I did enjoy the little mentions of "grandma". That really helps distinguish Mitchell from Jack and he will continue to need that kind of characterization. Overall I like his enthusiasm. I still want to see how this group is going to operate as a team.

*Vala continues to improve. Hopefully we'll get some more backstory on her next week because ultimately she needs a little more depth to make her a really good character. It *is* fun to see her push Daniel out of his comfort zone and she adds some energy to the show that could make her a very good recurring character. Daniel and Vala certainly have great comic chemistry. Vala sprawled on the table chomping on the apple made me laugh. So did her rapid "conversion" while being carried to the fire scene. So much better without all the OTT sexual innuendo. :D

*Daniel. He really bore the brunt of all the exposition of introducing the Ori. Some of it made my eyes glaze over a little but I was impressed with some of the things I was hearing in the conversation with the Doci. The ...."that's what I believe" ......line was very "Daniel" and it was nice to see that passionate, idealistic side of Daniel again. I thought MS did some of his best work in ages in these three episodes - with closed-captioning on of course. :D

*Landry. Another work in progress. It's so strange. Sometimes I really like him and other times he kind of rubs me the wrong way. He stands up for his people and that's a good thing.

*Jaffa storyline. Right now this seems like it's thrown in to keep Teal'c connected to the story. Pretty boring stuff, imo. But I suspect there's going to be more to it than that. The Jaffa just shed their "false gods" but there may be many followers who were more comfortable with that structure and those beliefs. I'm looking for Gar'ak to eventually become a "Prior" and for he and his Jaffa followers to become part of the Ori's army. That way Teal'c has more of a reason to continue being personally connected to the fight against the Ori.

Kudos again to Joel Goldsmith. The music during the three part opener has been very, very good. It added A LOT to the impact of the story.

I liked the look of the Ori "city". And the sets looked like movie sets. Well done. Also looked like lots of overtime from the costume department. I kept wondering if the Doci's "wings" make it difficult to fit thru doorways. Guess he doesn't get away from his fiery friends too often. :p :D

So the "pilot" for the new spin-off has set things up. I'm interested enough to keep watching and see where they're going. My continued enjoyment will probably depend on how much I like the chemistry of the new team (once Sam gets back) and the development of the new villain. If the Priors just end up being walking cliches - and they seemed like that at times in this "pilot" - then I'm not that interested.

Vala's been a nice spark plug to have around and I look forward to seeing her back sometime. Especially if they keep peeling back the layers on that onion. :cool:

keppiezbt
July 30th, 2005, 05:24 AM
When the Prior was speaking in the briefing room, he said "they did defeat the old spirits, and cast them out," do you think that he was speaking of, the Ori being the reason that the Ancients left their home galaxy, or could it have been something that happened, after the Ancients ascended?

i noticed that and thought the same thing....

SBacklin
July 30th, 2005, 05:27 AM
That was actor Julian Sands, not Ralph Fiennes.

Morjana
Thanks for confirming that. I thought that was Julian. The voice sounded the same and his lips were moving the exact same way as they did in the Warlock movies. It's almost like he came out of no where.

karen_s_c
July 30th, 2005, 05:36 AM
What a snoozefest! I fell asleep in the middle of it. Oh, please, I hope season 9 gets better, or I'm going to start doing something better with my time than watching this dreck.

SBacklin
July 30th, 2005, 05:37 AM
i noticed that and thought the same thing....

Well, they could've been just saying that. Maybe the Alterans just left and moved on and the Ori are going around saying....yeah we defeated them. It's kind of like two people fighting. They are both going to say "yeah I kicked the other one's ass" so they can save face.

What I am wondering is if there will be an "ascended civil war". The Alterans have obviously been sitting around but they are obviously aware of what has been going on. The Ori are now really on the prowl. Right now, with the Ori helping on their side, I don't see how we could win this.

Terrarin
July 30th, 2005, 05:37 AM
.......... The conference room scenes made it very clear that there is respect both for religion andChristianity............

1.))) Please tell me there any other instances that support this respect that you speak of? This is what I saw:

Respect for religion---"Who's to say there isn't a higher power greater than the Ascended who really is God?" (or something like that) -

Respect for Christianity---Mitchell showing obvious respect for the things his Bible-thumping Granny used to say.

2.))) Did anyone else worry that the other allusions to religion made it seem like they think any people who have faith in a religion, peaceful or not, are dopes?

Please give feedback.

kashi
July 30th, 2005, 05:45 AM
What a snoozefest! I fell asleep in the middle of it. Oh, please, I hope season 9 gets better, or I'm going to start doing something better with my time than watching this dreck.

Although I enjoyed it very much from a light entertainment point of view, I have to agree with you. The Orii are a bit...lame

Frostfox
July 30th, 2005, 05:50 AM
Pagh Wraiths in their fire caves vs The Prophets round 3, oops, sorry, wrong show, but now we have a Garak (okay Gerak, but everyone keeps calling him Garak) and Jaffa politics, it's reminding me more and more of my beloved DS9 (and that is a big complement).

I understand why MS said 'this is not your father's Stargate' - very different feel and tone to the show but I'm still on board and still loving it.

Poor Sallis and Harrid, what a nasty end, getting back into their bodies just to end up as toast.

The contact lenses for the priors are excellent, the bald one who self immoliates in the briefing room was particularly good. Now we need Richard O'Brien to play one, he's the epitome of the weird bald guy school of acting.

FF, with visions of Dannyboy's lovely legs in those hose, dancing happily in her dirty old head...

Kelso
July 30th, 2005, 05:53 AM
Well, I love it!

-Great parallels to medieval Christianity. Makes the whole Ori thing feels like it belongs in the Stargate universe.

-All of the actors were great! Louis Gossett and Beau Bridges rule! Glad to see Daniel returning to form.

- I have to admit that I was creeped out when Daniel received a visit from the Corpse of Jack O'Neill. That whole scene had a powerful Jacob Marley vibe. ;)

- The thought of the Ori approaching the Asgard is gold! I hadn't thought of that! I'd love to see how Thor handles those suckers... "Non-believers will be cast down!" "In the words of my old friend Jack O'Neill...'Bring it on'" :D

- As someone who was raised in a southern baptist church (and spent three years studying to be a minister)... I have no problems with the Medieval Christian parallels.

GateTraveler
July 30th, 2005, 06:00 AM
1.))) Please tell me there any other instances that support this respect that you speak of? This is what I saw:

Respect for religion---"Who's to say there isn't a higher power greater than the Ascended who really is God?" (or something like that) -

Respect for Christianity---Mitchell showing obvious respect for the things his Bible-thumping Granny used to say.

They cannot spend a whole episode trying to convince people they are not disrespecting religion. They have a story to tell. I believe the conference room scene was an attempt to reassure folks that may be worried about where they are going. That was enough.


2.))) Did anyone else worry that the other allusions to religion made it seem like they think any people who have faith in a religion, peaceful or not, are dopes?

Please give feedback.

I will say this. I don't think they are stupid enough to build the entire show around disrespecting every religion out there and offending a sizable percentage of their viewership. Over the past eight years they have dealt with the same issues presented in Origin - false gods. Over that time they have very skillfully avoided any implication that they disrespect religion in general. I don't think they are going to start now.

Albion
July 30th, 2005, 06:09 AM
Well, frankly I was seriously disappointed. So much for TPTB trailing the Orii with 'make the Goa'uld look tame'. Puh-lease! Give me a break. I was bored out of my skull for the entire episode. I didn't find the Orii especially interesting, intriguing or threatening. And at least the Goa'uld had a bit of personality about them. The Priors and Orii seem to me to be completely interchangeable and about as animated as a block of cement. At no time did I feel the slightest sense of danger or impending doom from any of them.

The remainder of the episode was plodding, lacking in any sense of drama or excitement or even humour. I enjoyed Mitchel in the last two episodes, but to be honest in this one he just irritated me. Every lame quip just sounded like a bad impression of Jack O'Neill.

Landy seemed flat somehow too. I really wasn't impressed with BB's line delivery quite a few times. And could he have taken any longer to tell Mitchell and Teal'c that Daniel and Vala had regained consciousness? Come on. Why use all those words, Landry, when a couple would have done and put them out of their misery quicker? It made the man look like a sadist!

The only time there was any real sense of jeopardy, it was in a repeat of the jeopardy from the previous episode - sorry, been there already, done that. So any impact of that was seriously diluted. It worked last week with Vala, where it was shocking and unexpected. But, here, it was just reheated leftovers. Even MS and CB seemed to be unable to work up any real emotion this time around. Where last week their reactions were real and heartbreaking, this time they just sat there in the middle of all those flames looking slightly concerned.

And not a word about that poor couple who did absolutely nothing to deserve it, but ended up being burnt to death because Daniel and Vala took over their bodies. Would have expected something at least from Daniel on that. A little bit of contrition, guilt, remorse, perhaps? But...nope. Neither of them gave a stuff that they'd just caused the deaths of two entirely innocent people by their blundering around with devices they don't fully understand, far as I could see.

And then to top it all off I became seriously pissed off by those end scenes with Daniel and Mitchell. As far as I'm aware that's the last we'll see of Jack O'Neill and we still have not the SLIGHTEST idea of why he's not at the SGC any longer, where he's off to or why he decided to go. If I hadn't read the spoilers I would be completely in the dark and that's just plain bad scripting and an insult to the viewer.

It's grossly unfair of TPTB to expect the viewer to know what's happening to their characters through spoilers. You tell them ON SCREEN, guys. It's just utterly ridiculous to do it this way. And totally disrespectful both to the fans of the character and to RDA and the character himself to give him such a lousy sendoff after eight years. The backstory in full to Jack's leaving the SGC should have been dealt with in episode one. I was prepared to give them leeway, on the understanding it would at least be dealt with in this episode with RDA's last appearance. That it wasn't just ticked me off royally. What a crock. So when are they going to fill us in officially? In the finale? S10? Never?

I feel insulted by way TPTB have handled Jack's leaving - I've never known any show before that thought it could get away with this kind of thing through spoilers before the show aired and just ignoring it on screen. It makes me think they think they can get away with anything and we will just accept it. Well, not this fan. Sorry, think again. I don't like the implication that I'm an idiot who'll just let you get away with that.

I'm sorry to be this negative. It takes a lot for me to get this critical. I was really prepared to give S9 a chance. But I'm thoroughly disgusted by the way things have been handled and the disrespect shown. I'll be hoping that things improve over the weeks, but to be honest, unless the Orii get a serious personality transplant and start actually showing some real teeth and a serious threat, I'm going to continue to be bored rigid whenever they appear on screen. Which doesn't bode well for my enjoyment, given that all the eggs have been put in the Orii basket, with what looks like few standalone episodes to balance them and 99% of the focus either on them or the Jaffa (another plotline that bores me entirely).

Ah well...I'll be watching next week and hoping for better. But even if I like the rest of S9, I doubt I'll be forgiving TPTB soon for their ridiculous nonsense over the cast changes. :(

Albion

SueS
July 30th, 2005, 06:18 AM
I think Origin is one of the best SG1 episodes ever. I personally love to see extreme religious people in Sci-fi. Possibly because I just can't understand people putting religion over common sence. So for me it's like christmas seeing people poo on religion in general. B5 did it and now SG1 to some degree.

Love that TPTB aren't scared to use extreme fanatics in their show(s?) when the real world is what it is atm. Personally I see a bigger connection between Origin-Christianity then to any other religion. That might be because I don't like christianity that much.


Wow, that's interesting.

I'm a born-again Christian, and about as fundamental as they come, and I'm thoroughly enjoying S9. I do see parallells between Christianity and what they are doing in S9 here, however I see nothing anti-Christian about it. In fact, I could see it as more pro-Christian. Harrid, Sallis, and Fannis are like the persecuted Christians who died for their faith rather than accept false teachings. Also, the Ori are like those mentioned in the Bible who Jesus said will lead many astray:

And Jesus began to say to them, "See to it that no one misleads you. Many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He!' and will mislead many. (Mark 13:6)

"And then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ'; or, 'Behold, He is there'; do not believe him; for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect. (Mark 13:21-22)

Then there's this passage from Revelations that has me wondering if RCC based the Priors and Doci/Ori on the two beasts that are mentioned here:

Revelation 13

11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon.

12 He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed.

13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men.

14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life.

15 And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.


I'm really liking S9.


SueS

GateTraveler
July 30th, 2005, 06:19 AM
I agree with Albion that Jack's send off has not been handled well by the writers. RDA hasn't helped matters with some of the worst performances I have ever seen him give but that is not an excuse for not explaining what happened to Jack. I'm not nearly as angry as Albion and it hasn't affected my enjoyment of the season but it is a serious issue given Jack's importance to the show.

Jack's appearances - particularly in Origin - seem tacked on. The scene with Daniel was particularly uncomfortable and terribly handled. There was no chemistry at all between these two that have been through so much together for so many years. Maybe they couldn't have spent entire episode on Jack (I'm sure RDA wouldn't have committed to that.) but they could have better taken advatange of the few scenes they had to deal with his exit.

keshou
July 30th, 2005, 06:29 AM
I agree with Albion that Jack's send off has not been handled well by the writers. RDA hasn't helped matters with some of the worst performances I have ever seen him give but that is not an excuse for not explaining what happened to Jack. I'm not nearly as angry as Albion and it hasn't affected my enjoyment of the season but it is a serious issue given Jack's importance to the show.
You know I just read Albion's comments and I have to agree. I'm not particularly angry but it was certainly a poor way to close out Jack's tenure on the show.

I suspect they're waiting to disclose more about Jack when Sam returns. But if those were the last scenes we ever have of O'Neill? Well, I'd prefer to remember him in the final "fishing" scene with the team.

Bobthespirit
July 30th, 2005, 06:40 AM
Thing is, the only reason the Orii are more dangerous than the gu'ald is that we've been explicitly *told* they are.

There was this old childrens' show I watched when I was like 8...Power Rangers. Every so often, they had the villains gain some new power that made them 'unstoppable'. Then, later that same episode, the good guys would be sent to get some new power for themselves that puts them once again on an even playing field with the bad guys. Essentially, they would 'up the ante' just by reinventing the protagonists and antagonists in a way that they *define* as being more powerful than the previous iteration.

I feel like Stargate is using the same technique. First they did it with the replicators. Every time they showed up in season 8, they'd be more powerful, and SG1 would have to find some new way to kill them. Then next episode, they'd be more powerful again, and SG1 would once again have to find another new way to kill them.

The Orii are their way of 'upping the ante' on the gu'ald. They're not really much more scary than the gu'ald because the good guys will just find some new way to fight them that leaves them dramatically deadlocked the same way they were with Apophis, Anubis, and the replicators.

The religion angle just seems to me a little too similar to other things done in scifi. The vorlons tried to wipe out anyone who was influenced by the shadows, the vorta tried to force everybody to worship the founders. The Orii are just...not a new thing. And their mannerisms are the exact same mannerisms used by every 'we're taking you over for your own good' alien in every scifi ever.

Nessva
July 30th, 2005, 06:45 AM
I didn't really like this episode much. It wasn't that bad, it just didn't really appeal to me much. It felt like a long-winded introduction to the Orii with no real action - a slow sort of episode in terms of drama.

I suppose we got a lot of information on the new 'baddies' but it would have helped if they were scary. Or is it only their fanaticism that is supposed to be scary? Or even just a few more passionate/funny/emotional lines from characters would have livened it up a bit.

Despite the fact it was nice to see RDA again, he looked bored out of his skull and not at all interested in actually acting, so that runied what could have been some good scenes.

Am really not interested in the Orii if they are just going to be spreading the word of their religion - nothing bores me more than that. Thankfully, I did come away thinking that at least they might be baddies with big spaceships, which might liven them up a bit ... hopefully.

MediaSavant
July 30th, 2005, 06:51 AM
This was "Stargate to multi-task by". I found myself drifting away from the set to check my e-mail. It was visually pretty static, not very fast-moving, and very expository. To paraphrase Mitchell, it *was* like being forced to sit in church for hours. They probably needed an exposition episode to set up the Orii and the rest of the season and this was it.

Adding to what others said, the RDA appearance was a waste. It was almost like he purposely made Jack so unengaging that we won't miss him.

Calicto
July 30th, 2005, 06:52 AM
Calicto's Review

Episode: Origin [SG-1 903]

Good Performances: Daniel Jackson, Vala, Mitchell, Gerak, Doci
Bad Performances: O'Neill

Noteworthy Scenes: Ori/Doci talking to Daniel, Arriving on Celestis, Gerak's Entrance, Self-Mortification of Prior

Advantages:

Interesting new enemy
Prior creation by Ori (Third last scene)
Mitchell's speech to Prior on planet
"Daniel Jackson made us aware of your need" by Prior
Gerak's interaction
Powerful abilities of Prior
"Yes, he did say something" by Lam
Prior Scarification
Teal'c & Mitchell working together to destroy communication device. Realistic because they had to delay the dialing sequence and they just wouldnt have gotten there in time.
Beautiful sets (especially Celestis).
Prior Presence on Screen + Prior costumes


Disadvantages:

Unnecessary O'Neill cameo. Bad Acting.
Needed more emphasis on the burning of Sallis/Hallan (sp?). Showing them burn like they showed Vala burning would have been very effective because they were innocent (kinda).


Comments: Very interesting Episode. The enemy, though they look primitive seem to have ships. Cant wait to see the ships (especially in Beachhead)

Story: 8.0
Plot Direction: 9.5
Acting/Characters: 9.0
Action/Adventure: 7.0
Background Info: 8.0
Dramatic Feel: 9.5
Scenes/Settings: 10
Special Effect: 9.5
Realism Factor: 8.0
Overall Feel: 8.0
Rating: 86.5 (B+)

pwrhaus8
July 30th, 2005, 06:57 AM
Okay -- show of hands. Who thought of "Return of the Archons" tonight while watching SG1's "Origin?" Even in "Return of the Archons," their version of the Priors, the Lawgivers, carried a staff. If at the end of this season, it turns out the Ori is really an Ancient (or Alteran) supercomputer that's become sentient and is literally trying to fulfill its programming -- well, darn, I'll be disappointed.


"Return of the Archons" didn't immediately come to mind, but I can see what your talking about as the phrase "It is the will of Landru." comes to mind. Then again, religious zealots have been staple sci-fi villains for decades. From Star Trek to The Chronicles of Riddick and a lot of stuff in-between, the concept of using religion to limit knowledge and free will has been done before. Now SG-1 is taking their turn at it. Not that I'm complaining about that. However, based on what we've seen so far about the Orii, I don't think we have to worry about any supercomputers. :)

kryon22
July 30th, 2005, 06:58 AM
Ooh. My opinion of Mitchell has improved.... (The 'Bible Thumper' comment made me laugh, as I used the same term to describe a few people like half an hour earlier.)

Overall, very good episode. I like the 'fiery' ascended being look, its pretty cool, so thats something that the Orii have over the Ancients simply white glowiness.

Oh, and Vala is still awesome ;)

Yeah...to quote an Angel episode I watched sometime back, "Evil doesn't have to mean sloppy..." :D

dd78matt
July 30th, 2005, 07:03 AM
So here is my take. The Alterans where the original Ori worshippers, the Ori created them and didn't inhibit technological growth then, but then they fled. So then the Ori created the worshippers that exist now and prevent them to become technologically advanced, and make them stay on the path, because they were to leniant with the Alterans. And this is why the Ancients now refuse to interfere with unascended beings. And thats also why all the Ancients had super human pwoers, the Ori shared with them the knowledge of how to do so.

Edit: Who saw those sweet rings?

The2ndQuest
July 30th, 2005, 07:16 AM
>>all the Ori have the same personality, which is frankly, a very cheesy personality.<<

Well, theoretically we've only seen one Ori via the Doci- it's the Priors who are mostly similar, but then the personality issue there really isn't any worse than your generic Jaffa in the earlier seasons.

Additionally, I didn't find the Doci to be cheesy at all- he and the Priors were creepy, with the latter being more subtle (well, until they unleash in the basement scene). Certainly less cheesy than the B-movie monster personality every single Wraith has had so far or the generally-indistinguishable lesser Goa'ulds over the seasons.

TheCorpulent1
July 30th, 2005, 07:22 AM
I thought "Origin" was kind of so-so. I liked a lot of things about it, namely:

- Daniel's "Daniel-ness" while trying to reason with the Doci. Man, that whole conversation took me back to seasons 2 and 3, when Daniel was much less of the warrior archetype he's become and much more of the naive genius he started out as.

- Gerak seems like a suitably antagonistic jerk. He should make a good foil for Teal'c and the "good" Jaffa that we know and love, like Bratac and Rak'nor.

- Mitchell going all-out southern on us and talking about his gran'ma with the Prior. Different humor from Jack's, obviously, but I found the country-boy humor pretty funny. I like that he and Teal'c finally began to bond a bit too.

- The whole Crusade angle. I liked the ending speech where the Doci says something along the lines of "we will gather an army and stomp the unbelievers!" to the administrator.

- The Priors seem like pretty sweet villains. The Doci, not so much. I look forward to what the crew can do with them.

- Immolations are always fun. :D

Of course, there were also things I wasn't so hot on. Mostly, it had to do with how flat the Ori came off. People on another board I frequent have been expressing concern that the Ori are just an upgraded version of the Goa'uld, and I hate to say it, but they may be right. The Ori seemed to just be a new spin on the false god archetype established by the Goa'uld. The Priors and Doci are pretty cool because of the whole religious fanaticism bent, but I don't know how long that'll stay fresh. I hope the Ori will be fleshed out more over the course of this season, but as of right now they're just another variant on a theme.

Also, I agree with others who feel that RDA was sleepwalking through the Jack scenes. That last scene with Mitchell in the F302 was obviously the symbolic passing of the torch, but it came off as a bit too obviously intended as that. It would've been nice if the dialogue were actually more meaningful, too.

But hey, they're done with the exposition-filled 3-part opener now, the pieces are all in place, and the team is mostly back to being associated with each other, if not necessarily a true team just yet. I'm looking forward to the off-world stuff, more about the new villains, more about the Ancients, the return of Carter, the official re-forming of SG-1, more development for Mitchell and Landry, and other stuff. There's a lot of material for this season to potentially turn into something great.

P.S. - Anyone else find it odd that the preview for next week's episode featured a shot of Vala with the dialogue "she's back!"? Dude, she never left! :o

Terrarin
July 30th, 2005, 07:31 AM
.. Jack's send off has not been handled well ... RDA hasn't helped matters with some of the worst performances I have ever seen him give I've read the words 'corpse' and 'cardboard' and 'sleepwalking' used to describe it. I think that about sums it up.
:S
...no excuse for not explaining what happened to Jack.......Maybe they couldn't have spent entire episode on Jack .. but they could have better taken advatange of the few scenes they had to deal with his exit....:( I FEEL SO CHEATED! :( When they said he'd be in the first episodes, I thought at least he'd be PART OF THE PLOT!!!!!!!!

Kalinda
July 30th, 2005, 07:35 AM
From beginning to end, one word can sum it up - W.O.W!

That's what I thought when it started, those were some bloody amazing special effects, with the different rings and that city and those sets.. whoa.. And the remainder of the episode held true to this first impression.

Last week I said I felt cheated, that I really wanted to see the Orii, well now I wasn't dissapointed. My worse fear was that they'd be a carbon copy of the Goa'uld. But they aren't. The Goa'uld were just all "We're gods, okay? Now worship us and work in our slave mines or die!" They were outrightly evil, you KNEW they were evil as soon as you saw how they enslaved people.

But the Orii really dont look that evil on the outisde, all the stuff they have to say really doesn't sound evil to me and at first glance they don't appear all that bad, not outwordly evil like the Goa'uld, I think some people on some planets might be taken by it without force. And the Orii, with all their power, may as well be gods.

The whole idea of a religious Crusade against Earth sounds quite interesting and different from what the Goa'uld did; they just wanted to wipe us out because we were a threat to them, but the Orii actually WANT us to worship them or, if we don't, they want us to die, not because they think we're a threat or because we meddled in their affairs.

So this is shaping up to be pretty awesome, I loved the climax where Daniel and Vala were about to get burned and I could really feel the excitement there, at least untill Mitchell said he had an idea, at which point I knew everything would be okay, but that's fine. The music during the last bit was excellent, most espeically the part where Daniel and Vala attempt to escape and are stopped by the Priors.

I'm espeically looking forward to finding out more about the history of the Alterrans/Ancients and how they relate to the Orii.

Mitchell was again really great, loved his whole southern thing and the little speech on the planet about his grandma being a Bible thumper, found that rather amusing.

Garak intrigues me, I believe someone else said he'd make a good foil for Teal'c and I have to agree there. Although I hope he isn't ALL bad and that he has some kind of wisdom, even if it's not the kind of thing we'll agree with. I hope his motivation is more interesting then just setting everything up so he has all the power.

That was definately the best of the first three episodes and, for me, I think Season 9 really, REALLY starts here. I certainly hope this is the start of several more seasons to come, as they've really got an interesting idea for new adventures here.

My only real complaint was that we never actually found out WHERE Jack is going, no one really said he'd been promoted to head of Homeworld Security, though I suppose people can make the assumption he got promoted to something. And RDA's acting wasn't really all that good, I dunno if that was his fault or the direction he was given. Though, for me, the Jack I really know has been gone since the end of season 7, merely because he wasn't so overly in season 8 and season 8 was really not that good to begin with. So it's just a minor complaint, not gonna let it detract from the overall awesomeness of the episode.

Happily looking forward to next week and the remainder of the season, plus future seasons! ^_^

A solid 11/10 for Origin :D
GW Poll Rating: Outstanding

Scandrea
July 30th, 2005, 07:57 AM
I'm withholding judgement on the Ori until I see more of them, but things are moving in the right direction for Season 9.

I must be one of the few people who liked the last Daniel and Jack scene. Daniel is showing a bit more of the sensitive genius I fell in love with in the movie and in the first seasons. He's scared, but Jack is there to kind of calm him down, and remind him that we'd faced worse (even if we really haven't), and that things will be OK.

Sorry if that doesn't make a lot of sense... running out of coffee...

TheCorpulent1
July 30th, 2005, 08:08 AM
I'm withholding judgement on the Ori until I see more of them, but things are moving in the right direction for Season 9.

I must be one of the few people who liked the last Daniel and Jack scene. Daniel is showing a bit more of the sensitive genius I fell in love with in the movie and in the first seasons. He's scared, but Jack is there to kind of calm him down, and remind him that we'd faced worse (even if we really haven't), and that things will be OK.

Sorry if that doesn't make a lot of sense... running out of coffee...
I think the problem most people have with Jack's appearance isn't that the content of the scene was bad, but that RDA seemed visibly bored by all of it and that his appearances weren't at all what were advertised. We've known through spoilers for a while now that Jack moves up to become the head of Homeworld Security, but we didn't actually see any of it in the episode. Jack's appearances seem to have been squandered with nice but ultimately less-than-fulfilling bonding moments with no mention of where he went or what he's doing.

ForeverSg1
July 30th, 2005, 08:13 AM
Like several others have said already, I think this storyline has potential but this particular episode did not move me as I had hoped it would. I understand that a great deal of dialogue has to be given to sum up who our new enemy is, it's much like the briefing room scenes, but in this particular case it felt as if I was being preached to that that the Ori are bad and I should be frightened.

Overall, it was in par with the first two episodes. It had very good moments and very slow moments. I do have to admit Vala is growing on me more and more. She actually was my favorite character in this particular episode. As long as they stay away from the overtly sexual innuendos, I have a feeling I will really miss her come Beach Head.

I have to admit, I never in a million years thought I would ever hear myself say these words but...

Why the hell was RDA/Jack even in this episode?

That was NOT the Jack I have come to love and admire over the past eight years. RDA didn't even look as if he and MSl were in the same shots most of the time. He looked bored and indifferent ... maybe he was sick who knows, but honestly for what we saw of Jack in episodes 1 and 3, if I were RDA I would have been bored and indifferent as well.

Why even bother bringing the man back if this is the way you are going to send off Jack? We learned nothing from this episode. We have no idea why he left the SGC, if he was promoted, ect. I know Amanda was away during the filming of this episode, but at the very least I had hoped to see Teal'c and Daniel saying good-bye to Jack, wishing him well, maybe seeing the men of the SGC giving him a salute good-bye. Instead we get a scene where Daniel is bearing his soul to Jack, telling him that for the first time in eight years he is truly frightened of what may lie ahead and how does Jack respond??


"I'm hungry."

How utterly pathetic is this? I just can't believe that this was RDA's farewell ad-lib to his fans. Either way, I'm truly disappointed in the way this whole thing was handled. The passing of the torch could have...should have been been more. I don't even understand what the whole X-302 scene was about. I mean why were Jack and Mitchell up there? Was this Jack's way of saying I'm sorry to Mitchell for not telling him that Daniel, Teal'c and Sam were no longer a part of the SGC?

I love RDA. I absolutely adore Jack O'Neill; however, if this is the kind of rubbish we can expect with future scenes of Jack O'Neill, I really wish TPTB would not bother, because the Jack O'Neill I have cherished over the past eight years is no longer alive. I implore you, please just let the man rest in peace.

Kat

TheCorpulent1
July 30th, 2005, 08:33 AM
"I'm hungry."


How utterly pathetic is this? I just can't believe that this was RDA's farewell ad-lib to his fans. Either way, I'm truly disappointed in the way this whole thing was handled. The passing of the torch could have...should have been been more. I don't even understand what the whole X-302 scene was about. I mean why were Jack and Mitchell up there? Was this Jack's way of saying I'm sorry to Mitchell for not telling him that Daniel, Teal'c and Sam were no longer a part of the SGC?
I absolutely agree. It's that kind of overblown irreverence that's been Jack's downfall, in my opinion. Earlier in the show, he was certainly irreverent at times, but there was enough meat to the character to balance it. The past few seasons, however, he's been all jokes and no substance. There were probably about 2 episodes in S8 where Jack showed anything approaching a serious attitude, and all of his few appearances so far in S9 are even worse. What's more, they don't really let us know what Jack thinks of anything. He seems to have left the SGC but we still don't know why, where he's going, what he's doing now, etc. Instead, his few appearances have been wasted on joke sessions. I'm sure we're gonna get some one-off later where Daniel just happens to mention "Oh, well Jack works for such and such now, why don't we just let him handle this?" or something. Telling rather than showing, which is a shame since they had RDA for a couple of scenes and squandered him. Out of the opening 3-parter, I've gotta say, the Jack scenes were by far the most disappointing, and I'm not even one of the uber Jack-fans who automatically hate Mitchell and want to cling to Jack despite the fact that we all knew he was leaving. I like Mitchell and I'm sure he'll do well, but Jack's send-off was sub-par, in my opinion.

Regarding the Mitchell/Jack F302 scene, I'm pretty sure that was the symbolic passing of the torch, where the old leader hands off the reins to the new leader with his blessing. I'm pretty sure. I can't be totally sure because it was botched so horribly that I have to wonder if TPTB actually intended it that way or if they just didn't have enough time with RDA to change it or something. Instead of being a true passing of the torch, where Jack reassures Mitchell and sends him on his way, they talked about utter garbage for like 2 minutes. You can't make a scene like that with completely light dialogue. That's a scene where you really need to peel back some layers with the dialogue and show what these characters are about so we know where we stand with them, but for whatever reason, TPTB didn't see that. What a horrible execution to a scene that could've been pure gold. :(

ShimmeringStar
July 30th, 2005, 08:37 AM
I'm going to use your post to jump off of because I agree with most of your points.... So I'll snippety-do-dah here 'n there if you don't mind... :o :D
Well, frankly I was seriously disappointed.I know... I'd really hoped for something else, something *more* in this evening's show. It's like the writers keep having these bright moments keep popping up that are just ripe for the picking and they fail to develop them. Things that don't need rushed do, and other things get drug out indeterminably......
I didn't find the Orii especially interesting, intriguing or threatening. And at least the Goa'uld had a bit of personality about them.And, if the Ori, these Ascended/Ancients/Whatever gone bad, are so all-powerful, then what little Earthling or Jaffa is going to stop them? Even if they turn out to have a big Achilles heel or not? That's why Daniel had the right idea that he'd gotten Earth into deep doo-doo since he knew it had required an Ascended like Oma to take away the threat of Anubis, and even that seemed to have required that Oma lock herself into an eternal battle with A. to keep him from destroying humanity. And after a show known for giving bad guys personality and depth as you said... eeehhhmmm... these baddies don't seem to be the kind to keep a show going season after season. And Landry's Earth's weaknesses/strengths dialogue near the end... it just reminds me how I miss a character like Hammond.....
The remainder of the episode was plodding, lacking in any sense of drama or excitement or even humour. I enjoyed Mitchel in the last two episodes, but to be honest in this one he just irritated me. Every lame quip just sounded like a bad impression of Jack O'Neill. LOL! I've been watching these first couple SG:1 S9 eps with my father who originally introduced me to SG (mainly to see what reaction he has as someone who doesn't go on-line or into fandoms) and he caught that too! There was that line I can't remember now, after Cam and T threw the device into the wormhole outflow and he came down to the edge of the gate ramp.... and my father laughed and mentioned that that was one of Jack's lines...
The only time there was any real sense of jeopardy, it was in a repeat of the jeopardy from the previous episode - sorry, been there already, done that. So any impact of that was seriously diluted. It worked last week with Vala, where it was shocking and unexpected. But, here, it was just reheated leftovers. Even MS and CB seemed to be unable to work up any real emotion this time around. Where last week their reactions were real and heartbreaking, this time they just sat there in the middle of all those flames looking slightly concerned.

And not a word about that poor couple who did absolutely nothing to deserve it, but ended up being burnt to death because Daniel and Vala took over their bodies. Would have expected something at least from Daniel on that. A little bit of contrition, guilt, remorse, perhaps? But...nope. Neither of them gave a stuff that they'd just caused the deaths of two entirely innocent people by their blundering around with devices they don't fully understand, far as I could see.This is one of those "ripe moments" I mentioned earlier... after the burn scene from the end of the last episode I thought they could really develop something better - i.e. more emotional impact concerning the developing relationship of D & V they didn't. To me, it seemed like the writers once again ignored life-altering events in these character's lives just barreling right along, ignoring V. got burned to death.... and I agree with you, this ep's burning scene just didn't have the same impact as last week's Act V. Another lost potential.... :o JMOHO

Oh yeah... I thought that unusual too that there was no reaction shown from either of them when they come back. Okay, maybe I wouldn't expect anything from V except a 'poor suckers or poor souls' comment, but I was amazed the opportunity to remind us of the compassion of Daniel's character wasn't taken... and I don't mean sentence after sentence of exposition... Just something more than 'Thank God we're back,' along the lines of 'OH S**T - we just sent the other couple back to meet their instantaneous fiery deaths!' Where's Daniel's compassion gone? Not just for all of humanity, but with individuals within that humanity... Did it go out with his last ascension? :S

And then to top it all off I became seriously pissed off by those end scenes with Daniel and Mitchell. As far as I'm aware that's the last we'll see of Jack O'Neill and we still have not the SLIGHTEST idea of why he's not at the SGC any longer, where he's off to or why he decided to go. If I hadn't read the spoilers I would be completely in the dark and that's just plain bad scripting and an insult to the viewer.

It's grossly unfair of TPTB to expect the viewer to know what's happening to their characters through spoilers. You tell them ON SCREEN, guys. It's just utterly ridiculous to do it this way. And totally disrespectful both to the fans of the character and to RDA and the character himself to give him such a lousy sendoff after eight years. The backstory in full to Jack's leaving the SGC should have been dealt with in episode one. I was prepared to give them leeway, on the understanding it would at least be dealt with in this episode with RDA's last appearance. That it wasn't just ticked me off royally. What a crock. So when are they going to fill us in officially? In the finale? S10? Never?

I feel insulted by way TPTB have handled Jack's leaving - I've never known any show before that thought it could get away with this kind of thing through spoilers before the show aired and just ignoring it on screen. It makes me think they think they can get away with anything and we will just accept it. Well, not this fan. Sorry, think again. I don't like the implication that I'm an idiot who'll just let you get away with that.Thanks Albion for echoing what so many of us from so many walks of life (and of so many different opinions) here at GW have been saying.... There's been discussion since this time last year about RDA “calling in” his performances, especially into the latter half of S6 and into S7 - and we won’t even talk about his S8’s performances...

I know a few people who aren’t part of fandom who *are* scratching their heads wondering WTH just happened to their show and to Jack’s character. It is, as you said and IMOHO, disrespectful to viewers, especially average not-on-line viewers to assume what has happened and the reasons why. Yeah, we can assume ship, we can assume this and that… but reducing 8-years worth of history down to 8 lines of explanation is not a good thing. (And yes… I know from being on-line here all of the reasons why there’s no Jack and a reduced Sam….)

As someone who likes the Jack character, I hated what they (the writers and RDA) have done to the character, especially over S8 and the snippets we’ve seen of him this year. Snarky Action!Jack quickly turned into Cardboard!Jack. I realize TPTB really wanted RDA so as to keep their ratings high and the show going strong. But in their quest to sprinkle him in here and there last season to accommodate RDA’s schedule, they changed Jack into something that is hard to accept, especially given the history of the Jack of, say, S2-S4. My understanding is that BB & RDA didn’t film the scene in BB’s backyard together either. I agree we fans are not idiots - we know when we’re being scammed and using stand-ins & tech like that is a rip-off. (Show it for real or don’t bother to do it at all…)

I for one now wish they’d just given Jack a respectful sendoff – no assumptions to make nor couple of second scenes where we are the ones grimacing and arching our brows, not Jack. No more cardboard performances please - let me (and us) remember Action!Jack the way he was. Not this Ancient-Knowledge-brain-fried, having too many senior moments, shell-of-a-man-and-a-character that you wanted to dangle in front of us just to say “Here’s RDA for all you Jack/RDA fans - watch it – watch RDA!” It contributed nothing. Nor did it make me feel any better about Jack treating Cam like dirt.

I’ll miss the Jack character, but now I am sorry RDA did guest. Just let Jack retire and fish damn it and stop ruining a wonderful character.

And even though I am an S/J Shipper, I’m not so sure I want to see Sam with this version of Jack. He's nearly ready for a nursing home the way he was written and the way RDA played him!

[/rant]
I'm sorry to be this negative. It takes a lot for me to get this critical. I was really prepared to give S9 a chance. But I'm thoroughly disgusted by the way things have been handled and the disrespect shown. I'll be hoping that things improve over the weeks, but to be honest, unless the Orii get a serious personality transplant and start actually showing some real teeth and a serious threat, I'm going to continue to be bored rigid whenever they appear on screen. Which doesn't bode well for my enjoyment, given that all the eggs have been put in the Orii basket, with what looks like few standalone episodes to balance them and 99% of the focus either on them or the Jaffa (another plotline that bores me entirely).

Ah well...I'll be watching next week and hoping for better. But even if I like the rest of S9, I doubt I'll be forgiving TPTB soon for their ridiculous nonsense over the cast changes. :(

AlbionDon't apologize. We're all here to discuss the good and the bad...... :)

SciFiGeek
July 30th, 2005, 08:39 AM
Okay, six months ago, if someone had told me that with the start of the new seasons, I would develop a more invested interest in SG1 than Atlantis, I probably would've laughed in there face. Ah, how times have changed.

*sigh* I really, really, really don't want to dislike Atlantis; and with SG1 winding down and sleepwalking through the last couple of seasons--marked only by the highlights of it's almost all-around superb two-parters--I was ready for SG1 to move on and was fully invested in Atlantis.

But after last night...*sigh*...again, I really don't want to dislike Atlantis. But if things continue on--if characterizations, or more specifically, mischaracterizations (is that a word?)--continue on the way they have...let's just say it make take me down that unfortunate road where I eventually stopped caring.

SG1 meanwhile...dang...I give full kudos to everyone involved and all the people who spoke so enthusiastically about this new season. I think it's getting to be as good as the show has ever been. I thought the idea of revamping the series--from major characters to the villains to the mythos--was a bad idea right up until I watched the first half of Avalon. But after last night...man, I hope the series continues on the high it started on because I am abolustely loving SG1 right now.

The cast--new characters included--the new villains, potential for great new storylines...last night, I was getting chills during some of the stuff with the Priors and the music...and just the self-righteous, frustrating view the Ori have of themselves...and the music (which has always been great, but I'm loving the choral stuff).

Also, can we keep Vala around and make SG1 a five-person team? Because I am absolutely getting such a kick out of her character. More Vala, please?

I got a little emotional during the scenes at the end with Jack; particularly the one with Daniel, since Jack-Daniel banter was my absolute favorite aspect of the first five seasons, and it was just a reminder to me that we'll probably never get to really have it again. I was upset at first, because I had learned to love the new series with its new characters, and they had to bring him back and remind what we had lost; but I was ultimately happy with that, because it felt like a farewell to the character. And a nice cap on the fact that the series, so far, has managed to pull off what I didn't think it could--it can actually survive without RDA and Jack O'Neill.

Dang, SG1--I love you right now. Now please just don't let down with the rest of the season.

Sparky13
July 30th, 2005, 08:45 AM
<<Instead we get a scene where Daniel is bearing his soul to Jack, telling him that for the first time in eight years he is truly frightened of what may lie ahead and how does Jack respond??


"I'm hungry." >>

I have to agree. Daniel's expression of fear was quite chilling. Considering the magnitude of Daniel's concern, Jack's quip felt entirely wrong. Daniel wasn't afraid for himself; he never is. Having just experienced a world that believes in the Ori, one where the Ori perform miracles to convince the populace of their power and then burn at the stake those who rebel, Daniel fears that Earth will fall under the Ori's rule. And Jack says he's hungry.

Well, okay. Season 9 is here. Jack is gone. Ben Browder is total eye candy. I'm sold. Bring it on!

Sparky

akimbo
July 30th, 2005, 09:06 AM
<<Instead we get a scene where Daniel is bearing his soul to Jack, telling him that for the first time in eight years he is truly frightened of what may lie ahead and how does Jack respond??


"I'm hungry." >>

I have to agree. Daniel's expression of fear was quite chilling. Considering the magnitude of Daniel's concern, Jack's quip felt entirely wrong. Daniel wasn't afraid for himself; he never is. Having just experienced a world that believes in the Ori, one where the Ori perform miracles to convince the populace of their power and then burn at the stake those who rebel, Daniel fears that Earth will fall under the Ori's rule. And Jack says he's hungry.

Well, okay. Season 9 is here. Jack is gone. Ben Browder is total eye candy. I'm sold. Bring it on!

Sparky

I thought the "I'm hungry" line totally didn't work in the scene as well, but just to defend the writers a bit: there was a time in seasons past when RDA could have pulled off something similar to Jack's "I'm hungry" line with a performance that reacted to Daniel's fears first through recognition and compassion and then pull Daniel out of it with a comforting "I'm hungry" with the subtext of "it's going to be all right".

It would have taken a great performance to do it with both actors in the scene contributing. Both RDA and MS are certainly capable of such a moment (especially with the chemistry that they have exhibited in the past), but that quite obviously did not happen - they didn't appear to be in the same room.

Maybe RCC was hoping for a little magic, I certainly was. Perhaps that's why I'm so disappointed in the outcome.

Skydiver
July 30th, 2005, 09:08 AM
this one didn't do too much for me. it was a good info dump to set up the ori. and they will be annoyingly and frustratingly hard to handle. and the sfx were really good with the pah wraiths, oh wait, ori :)

vala wasn't too annoying (although the promos for next week suggests that that will change)

gerak will be interesting, as will dr lam. landry is ok, but i wish beau would lose the gruff hoarseness in his voice. or maybe it's always that way. his whispering gets on my nerves

teal'c was...there. and while daniel did a good job arguing with the ori, the whole storyline leaves me a bit uncomfortable. we live ina world where folks hate me and want to kill me because i'm not of htier religion. I watch entertainment to get away from that and elements of the Ori just strike a bit too close to home.

it could go off as decent social commentary...or it could bite them in the tush. depends on how much sermonizing they do.

I'm sure the ori are here to stay, but i gotta admit i miss the good old fashioned greedy goauld.

macktheknife
July 30th, 2005, 09:16 AM
Wow, I was wondering how they would make the Ori "evil", but in pretty much half an episode, they made every other SG universe evil race\villans look tame.

I guess it's more because they essentially remove the free will that is a underpoint of democracy that people on earth have, and that the goauld and humans have fought to get for the galaxy (or the majority).

Also, great credit to the writers for making the Ori unbelivable "evil" to the viewer (or at least me), without simply making them slaughter a bunch of people\asgard etc. Great "thinking writing", that really makes them a very powerfull and very deadly enemy.

I reckon that other goauld with the conan wolf cloak is going to end up as an "Ori" sympathiser, and perhaps we see a Goauld Civil war caused by the Ori.

Only thing wrong with that episode was RDA, with a pointless line, Daniel says "I'm scared" and RDA\Jack says "I'm hungry". I mean really.

I don't think the Ori "themselves" will end up, except towards the very end of the Ori story arc, maybe 2 or 3 seasons from now (i'm hopefull, so sue me :D), and it will be the followers attacking us.

TheCorpulent1
July 30th, 2005, 09:24 AM
teal'c was...there. and while daniel did a good job arguing with the ori, the whole storyline leaves me a bit uncomfortable. we live ina world where folks hate me and want to kill me because i'm not of htier religion. I watch entertainment to get away from that and elements of the Ori just strike a bit too close to home.

it could go off as decent social commentary...or it could bite them in the tush. depends on how much sermonizing they do.
While I agree to a certain extent, I wasn't discomfited at all by the Ori's more ideological evil. As you pointed out, it's a very significant presence in reality, so I think the Ori are a pretty good venue to comment about that in SG-1. Like any good concept in a fictional forum whose primary goal is to entertain, the Ori were suitably over-the-top with their religious fanaticism. They took the germ of reality and blew it up to astronomical proportions. I have to admit, the idea of a Crusade against the MW intrigues me, too.

But, on the other hand, you're definitely correct in saying it could go either way in the long run. Execution will be the greatest factor in determining whether the Ori will be relevant or just overly preachy.

warmbeachbrat
July 30th, 2005, 09:33 AM
Some thoughts the morning after the night before:



Hallowed be the Ori, Hallowed be the Ori.....okay I got it. In fact it will be ringing in my ears for days.

Hee-Hee! I was thinking the same thing!


So perhaps we could debate "if not Christian then some other religion(s)" but I'd rather think this episode was not so much about theology but the power of belief. Which is one of the reason I enjoyed it.

In comparing Stargate to Star Trek (well, maybe with the exception of DS9), I notice that Star Trek tends to bring religion into the mix in order to debunk it or knock it down, or belittle it. Stargate tends to bring religion in to the mix to EXPLORE it, to examine it, to test it--do you know what I mean? I think Stargate is more interested in exploring FAITH; not any particular faith, but the fact that there is faith, and what do people believe, and why do they believe it, and if it is false, expose it and give people a chance to find something real, if there is anything real. Because like it or not, this old earth is filled with people who have faith (deep faith, shallow faith, different faith, even indifferent faith). Ignoring it won't make it go away, so trying to explore and understand it is a worthwhile venture (even for a tv show, and even in the most tangential ways).

I must say when I keep hearing Tea'lc talk about false gods, it makes me wonder what he believes now. I don't suppose Stargate will go there, but it DOES make me wonder.



I thought the "I'm hungry" line totally didn't work in the scene as well, but just to defend the writers a bit: there was a time in seasons past when RDA could have pulled off something similar to Jack's "I'm hungry" line with a performance that reacted to Daniel's fears first through recognition and compassion and then pull Daniel out of it with a comforting "I'm hungry" with the subtext of "it's going to be all right".

It would have taken a great performance to do it with both actor's in the scene contributing. Both RDA and MS are certainly capable of such a moment (especially with the chemistry that they have exhibited in the past), but that quite obviously did not happen - they didn't appear to be in the same room.

Maybe RCC was hoping for a little magic, I certainly was. Perhaps that's why I'm so disappointed in the outcome.

Oh man, I was JUST going to post something along these lines. I really think that's where they were going with it and it just didn't come off right--too bad, it could have been magic, as you say.


In thinking about the Priors--the one Daniel encountered was seriously creepy. It might have had something to do with the way he moved (oh so slowly), or how he looked, but I think he was way more menacing than the prior that showed up on earth. Hmmm--maybe tptb are trying to show that they are not all the same--who knows? And what do you suppose is up with the possessed guy? Do the Ori do that very often? Do they have a name for possessed critters? I feel sorry for him.

Oh, some have commented on Harrid and Sallis being burned because of Daniel and Vala when they are innocent. But don't forget, they were part of the group that was rebelling against the Ori--they may have been exposed because of Daniel and Vala, but they weren't innocent of the charges (as unfair as those charges may be), and something tells me they would have been caught sooner or later. I do think, however, that their characters should have been focused on a wee bit more.

And finally, does anyone else think that, as a communications device, this ancient doo-hickey leaves a lot to be desired. Was it really supposed to work that way? Doesn't seem to be very effective and it seems to leave the users wide open to danger. Ah well, questions for another episode to answer.

Katkin
July 30th, 2005, 09:33 AM
I’ll miss the Jack character, but now I am sorry RDA did guest. Just let Jack retire and fish damn it and stop ruining a wonderful character.

And even though I am an S/J Shipper, I’m not so sure I want to see Sam with this version of Jack. He's nearly ready for a nursing home the way he was written and the way RDA played him!

[/rant]Don't apologize. We're all here to discuss the good and the bad...... :)


Agree totally, SS – you hit the nail on the head as always. It was obvious MS and RDA weren’t even acting off each other and to be frank, RDA looked bored and exhausted. Why did they even bother? I felt utterly depressed after watching this, and I didn’t want my last impression of O’Neill to be like that. Guess I will have to hold fast to the last time RDA seemed to actually bother trying with the character and just watch Paradise Lost on a constant loop…

And just to rant on a bit more, I thought this episode was as sucky as a sucky thing – so sucky that it sucked, in fact. Surely the producers should know by now that medieval village settings just end up looking like a Men Without Hats video? :S

shockwave
July 30th, 2005, 09:37 AM
origin is great, already watched it 3 times today
didn't miss sam at all

ravinia
July 30th, 2005, 10:04 AM
wanted to wait until I'd seen all three parts to see if my attitude would change.

After Origin, it hasn't. The Orii don't scare me, I'm just not interested. So melodramatic. Cliche Crusades-Christianity-Holy War plot line. At least the Goauld had some interesting complexity and uniqueness to them.

Finally, there are EIGHT YEARS of loyal fans out there. Change can be good, but you can't dismiss characters that have been beloved for EIGHT YEARS without explanation, with a few jokey lines that are delivered by sleepwalking actors. (Yep, the final scenes with Jack simply ruined the rest of the episode for me.)

If we didn't read gateworld, we wouldn't have a clue as to why Jack left the SGC or what he was doing. It's not like he's going to be returning like Sam's character, so we deserved to get some back story as canon. It's unfair to the fans, and it's a horrible disservice to the character.

Excali5033
July 30th, 2005, 10:08 AM
Adding to what others said, the RDA appearance was a waste. It was almost like he purposely made Jack so unengaging that we won't miss him.

You know, you might be on to something there.

TheCorpulent1
July 30th, 2005, 10:10 AM
wanted to wait until I'd seen all three parts to see if my attitude would change.

After Origin, it hasn't. The Orii don't scare me, I'm just not interested. So melodramatic. Cliche Crusades-Christianity-Holy War plot line. At least the Goauld had some interesting complexity and uniqueness to them.

Finally, there are EIGHT YEARS of loyal fans out there. Change can be good, but you can't dismiss characters that have been beloved for EIGHT YEARS without explanation, with a few jokey lines that are delivered by sleepwalking actors. (Yep, the final scenes with Jack simply ruined the rest of the episode for me.)

If we didn't read gateworld, we wouldn't have a clue as to why Jack left the SGC or what he was doing. It's not like he's going to be returning like Sam's character, so we deserved to get some back story as canon. It's unfair to the fans, and it's a horrible disservice to the character.
I thought the Goa'uld were much more melodramatic and boring than the Ori, myself. That was part of their appeal, actually, and Jack highlighted it a lot: They took themselves way too seriously and went way, way over the top. The Ori, on the other hand, have kind of a chilling simplicity to them at this point: either you believe in their message or you die. The Priors look like a pretty interesting enemy, too, in part because they're fairly understated. Rather than fighting back against the SGC personnel, one of them simply immolates himself.

But I totally agree with you on the Jack stuff. Those last scenes were awful and, after a couple of episodes of accepting that Jack would be gone, I now find myself missing him because his send-off was so bad.

mtee1958
July 30th, 2005, 10:11 AM
I would have to disagree here. The little snippets of Jack in these episodes is a Jack I never knew. The guy looks half asleep. I love Jack but if he is going to sleepwalk through his scenes then he shouldn't be around at all. The word that comes to mind is "sad".

On the episode, it was GREAT. Unlike some past seasons, this one appears to be getting better and better with each episode.

I agree - I thought Jack was missing something -- no energy - he looked and sounded tired.

I liked the ep -- Landry was good -- liked his "I had a Grandma too" line - sweet. A modern Crusades - I can see why this scares Daniel more then the Gould -- more people will "fall" for the miracles and religious rhetoric than the menace of the G'ould.

Religious fervor -- so much good and so much evil has been done in it's name.
That's scary.

EagleMorph
July 30th, 2005, 10:15 AM
First time, long time, yada yada yada.

As a long time viewer of Stargate (I actually rented the series premiere before it reached syndication or SCI-FI), I've always been more interested in the theology and mythology of the show than anything else. Thus, I've always been more interested in Daniel's parts and activities within the show than any other major storylines.

I firmly believe that "Origin" is among one of the best episodes that has been created, second to the three part arc of "Reckoning Part 1, Part 2, and Threads" last year.

For one, the visuals and the musical score add so much to this season of SG-1. Kudos to the art department and Joel Goldsmith for creating a wonderful environment for these characters and the storyline. And that storyline is absolutely fantastic. I figured, even knowing the spoilers, that the King Arthur storyline was basically a lead-in to something much larger, and it turns out I was right. That, plus added character development on behalf of Daniel and Vala, as well as Landry and Mitchell (but to a lesser extent), made this an extremely enjoyable show. Halfway through, as I got up to get another Pepsi, I looked at the clock and was stunned to see it was only 8:30 EST. I was sure that we were almost done, there was just so much packed into the story. I was pleasantly surprised to see that I still had another half hour of viewing to go!

To those who criticize the Ori for not having character depth: patience, my friends. You cannot create depth within a single episode. I have the feeling we will see our intrepid explorers band together to start recruiting allies in the next couple episodes, and then I think we'll return to the Ori and perhaps get some development going, especially once Sam returns in Beachhead.

Finally, I don't believe this is the end of Harrid and Sallis. I think I saw Park and Telek's names as being casted in an episode coming up, and I would assume they are resuming their roles as Harrid and Sallis respectively. I don't think we'll see another body-swap storyline, but perhaps SG-1 is able to visit Celestis and *gasp* everyone's A-ok!

Very kick-arse episode.

ChillinTheMost
July 30th, 2005, 10:25 AM
I enjoyed it. Not as much as the first two, but that may be because there was less Mitchell. :p Mostly, I think it was because I was ready for the focus to leave the planet with Daniel and Vala and to get back to the group as a whole.

*************
I've only watched it once, so far, but some early reactions to the show and comments here:

As mentioned the Ori are not as individual and don't have the "passion" that the Go'ulds do. But I think that is what makes them scarier. With the Go'ulds, there was the opportunity to use their greed to turn them against each other. There were some you could trust more than others. There was something to work with to defeat them easier. With the Ori, one is like the other. They blindly all agree and have one undivided purpose and even if you destroy one, another just like him will take over - not one with perhaps even more weaknesses than the last one. There will be no reasoning with them, no turning of one against the other, no weakening from within. Cold, unforgiving, one-mindedness is scarier than passionate greed.

*************
As for the religion aspect, the Ori don't represent any branch of Christianity or any other religion that I know of. If anything, they resemble cults where the followers are relieved of their possessions, brainwashed, and not allowed contact with their families so that nobody can talk any sense into them. If the Ori start giving out Jell-O shooters: RUN!

So, I don't think the comparison is to Christianity or any other valid religion, but to those that use religion for their own deify-ment. [I know that's not a word. :o ]

*************
I agree with others that they were trying to do something with RDA's cameos that didn't quite work, but did anyone else think that RDA actually looked ill? Maybe it was the makeup, maybe it was because he didn't want to be there, but he didn't look healthy to me. I hope I'm wrong.

I did like the idea behind it though.
(1) Say good-bye to Daniel [should have included Teal'c, I thought, if in no more way than, "Teal'c and I are having lunch, want to join us?" - which may have helped those that thought his response to Daniel was abrupt: at least this would look like they would continue the conversation.]
(2) Get Mitchell "back on the horse after falling" and pass the reins to him. If RDA had been more enthusiastic about it, it might have worked. As it was, it looked like he was forced to leave and didn't want it to work out without him. I sincerely doubt this was the case, though.

*************
I thought they took a big chance in destroying the communications device. I thought Teal'c suggestion was just to take it through a wormhole and maybe the distance would break the connection. When they started throwing it through, I was worried it would break or whoever was on the other side would take it. If this didn't work, they'd need to get it back to try something else. I thought they'd just take it to the alpha site or someplace secure.

*************
I realize the real couple would probably have been killed soon anyway, but to finally return to your bodies to find them on fire. Chilling. I hope it went fast for them.

*************
Can't wait until the next episode. Can't wait to see them working more as a team. Can't wait for Sam to get back.

keshou
July 30th, 2005, 10:29 AM
I thought the "I'm hungry" line totally didn't work in the scene as well, but just to defend the writers a bit: there was a time in seasons past when RDA could have pulled off something similar to Jack's "I'm hungry" line with a performance that reacted to Daniel's fears first through recognition and compassion and then pull Daniel out of it with a comforting "I'm hungry" with the subtext of "it's going to be all right".

I agree - I think this is what they were going for. In the past RDA, with his facial expressions and line delivery could have said "I'm hungry" and it would come across as Jack recognizing the gravity of the situation while at the same time spitting in the enemy's eye and reassuring his team. He was great at that stuff.

Unfortunately the lackluster line delivery and bland facial expression in this scene just made the "I'm hungry" fall flat. I'm going to give RDA the benefit of the doubt that he was tired or not feeling up to snuff. :S

And you know - as far as I'm aware RDA wasn't the one who wanted to come appear on the show in S9. Bridge/MGM/Scifi/whoever negotiated hard to get RDA to make a few token appearances.

RDA's moved on - for the right reasons and more power to him. So maybe expecting a lot of *oomph* out of these scenes may have been wishful thinking. Still it was disappointing. :(

Is RDA supposed to be making any more cameo appearances this season? If so I hope they'll have more impact and give us some better closure on Jack's tenure on the show.

And even though I am an S/J Shipper, I’m not so sure I want to see Sam with this version of Jack. He's nearly ready for a nursing home the way he was written and the way RDA played him!
I tell you - one of these days Sam's going to see the light and his name is McKay. :p :D

ChillinTheMost
July 30th, 2005, 10:31 AM
I thought the Goa'uld were much more melodramatic and boring than the Ori, myself. That was part of their appeal, actually, and Jack highlighted it a lot: They took themselves way too seriously and went way, way over the top. The Ori, on the other hand, have kind of a chilling simplicity to them at this point: either you believe in their message or you die. The Priors look like a pretty interesting enemy, too, in part because they're fairly understated. Rather than fighting back against the SGC personnel, one of them simply immolates himself.
Somehow, I didn't read this before I posted. You said it better than I did.

Sela
July 30th, 2005, 10:39 AM
I reluctantly admit that I didn't really care for this episode as I wanted to. For me, the feeling of the whole thing was too 'dark ages' for me. The Ori seemed to be very monotone, very dull. With the goa'uld, they all have distinct personalities from the beginning. That's what made them so interesting. With the Ori, they are not that interesting. What was interesting is that they scared Daniel. That gave me pause. Maybe he knows something about them that I don't... ;)

Maybe it's me, but did anyone else wonder what Mitchell was thinking by bringing the Prior back with him? He was an unknown alien quantity - he knew nothing about him. I found that a little strange - what about the security issues? Take him to the Alpha Site first - not directly to Earth. Did he miss that part of the briefing or was that something else that Jack forgot to tell him?


High Points:
Louis Gosset Jr.: Wow. Just...wow. A great actor and a great presence in a scene. Looking forward to seeing more of him. I know Garek is suppose to be in opposition to Teal'c, but wouldn't it be great it they could find a way to work together.

Landry was better this week. I'm liking him more. He seems to be settling in as SGC commander quite nicely. Liked his style in the final briefing room scene.

Mitchell's easy going manner and charm is great, but if he says, "That's what I'm talking about!" One More Time - :eek:! Let's find him another tag line, please.

Starting to get used to Daniel and the beard...(heaven help me)...

Felt my heart twist with the first shot of Jack. I miss him. I miss Carter. I miss all of them together....

I also miss the original show opening! That 8 second BS was even more annoying the second time around. A plague on all their houses....

Amakusa
July 30th, 2005, 10:40 AM
Episodes like this make me miss the days of the Goa'uld before they invented Anubis. The Goa'uld were fun even though they weren't always menacing. The Ori are just menacing straight-jacket bad guys with little room for the fun factor.

Which also makes me wish they didn't leave themselves with just Baal to play around with Goa'uld-wise. Even Baal can get predictable.

SGalisa
July 30th, 2005, 10:40 AM
haven't read anything above this yet... posting review comments first :)

Nice distant "city of the gods" illusion. Splashdown ring transport effect was kinda nice, too!

Origin seemed to be pure sci-fi... toss in a dash of a one-worldism theology and expand it to the entire universe, and voila are the Ori. Additionally, that metal thing wrapped around the doci's neck looks awful uncomfortable, too! Poor Lt. Col. Cameron Mitchell... getting another round of his grandma's Bible thumping, but dealing with it from the Ori's POV this time. :D

Actually, the Ori reminded me of the hellish side of universal darkness. The Ori speak from the depths of the everlasting (hell)fires. They claim to be purifying evil from the universe, yet seem to be the heart of evil entities themselves. This *evil* connection is reinforced by the Ori's emotionless comment that the Alterans (Ancients) are:
"those who abandoned the path of evil."

If the ascended Ancients personify heaven's humans in angelic form, then the ascended Ori personify the deceiving demonic realms. Just wondering if TPTB will go beyond into that "infinite" universe -into the next upper levels- on whether or not there is a power greater than the Ori, in order to protect our favorite SGC Stargate characters, and hold the good/evil balance in check...?

Of course, the Ori do present the Jaffa leadership with a challenging plotline other than political infrastructures.

========
* ep excerpt of Daniel with Vala, immediately after his meeting with the Ori:
Daniel: {concerned} "This is bad."

Vala: {skeptical} "...*worse* than being burned to death?!!" :eek:

* (Later) Daniel Jackson admitting he's scared...? After all he's been thru, that's a first! I half expected him to try to ascend (again! but this time to put the Ori in their rightful hellish place!). So, how he and Vala actually escaped in the last possible second was one of those SG surprises that is only guestimated during the last seconds of turning the Stargate on.

* General Landry yelling at Dr. Caroline Lam (and her reacting like "Yes Sir!")... so much for the friendly family atmosphere between them.
========

Excluding any sarcastic barbs in this ep, of the 3-part trilogy, the humor (joke-side) end seemed sporadic.
Okay, Vala holding out the apple to Daniel was *funny*... VERY symbolic of Eve offering Adam the fruit from the tree of good and evil, especially while Daniel is reading the book of Ori wisdom... :D

Another obvious joke that came thru as if being just another *casual* conversation, was at the end when Jack met up with Daniel. But you gotta know all of Stargate in order to get the greater effect of the joke...

Jack saying he was sorry to hear about Daniel missing the Daedalus...

Daniel: "No you're not."

{Jack pauses for a moment...}
Jack: "You're right. I'm not."
:p

Typical Jack O'Neill (as-a-matter-of-factly deadpan humor). At least they finally got to the point in the SG series where Daniel *comfortably* toots directly back at Jack's deeply hidden humor feelings about jibing Daniel all the time, and not letting on that he's actually teasing about it...

(aka: flashback to SG-1 Season 7's "Fallen/Homecoming" ep, when Daniel tells Jonas about Jack's {annoying} ability to not let on what Jack *really* thinks of him -Jonas or Daniel.) ;)

Seshat
July 30th, 2005, 10:57 AM
The actor was not Ralph Fiennes but Julian Sands, best known (at least to me) from the movie Naked Lunch. (Imagine, though, if we could get A-list actors like that to guest star on SG-1/A....oh, the possibilities)

BTW, nice to see that they're going back to the tried-and-true sci-fi cliche of the bad guys having British accents. ;)
Thank you to everyone who pointed out that that was Julian Sands! I THOUGHT that was him, although his wacky contacts threw me off a bit and I wasn't sure. I was very surprised that he was not promoted as a special guest star (at least I didn't notice a lick of PR about his upcoming appearance) and his name has pull (at least for me, ah yes, Room with a View...sigh...). He is a lovely, lovely man, and an absolute gem of an actor. I couldn't find him listed in the credits at GW OR in the IMBD credits for this ep. I certainly hope we see more of him. :D

ChillinTheMost
July 30th, 2005, 11:00 AM
Mitchell's easy going manner and charm is great, but if he says, "That's what I'm talking about!" One More Time - :eek:! Let's find him another tag line, please.
I adore Mitchell, but you're right, it can get old fast. I think right now it's just his enthusiasm with being where he wants to be [SG-1] with the team he wants to make permanent. After the "newness" wears down, I hope this catch phrase does, too.

Sela
July 30th, 2005, 11:10 AM
If we didn't read gateworld, we wouldn't have a clue as to why Jack left the SGC or what he was doing. It's not like he's going to be returning like Sam's character, so we deserved to get some back story as canon. It's unfair to the fans, and it's a horrible disservice to the character.
I agree. We have no idea of what Jack is doing now. We really do need to know what happened and why. He was too big of a part of fabric of the show to just 'disappear' him.

TheCorpulent1
July 30th, 2005, 11:11 AM
Somehow, I didn't read this before I posted. You said it better than I did.
Thanks. :)


As for the religion aspect, the Ori don't represent any branch of Christianity or any other religion that I know of. If anything, they resemble cults where the followers are relieved of their possessions, brainwashed, and not allowed contact with their families so that nobody can talk any sense into them. If the Ori start giving out Jell-O shooters: RUN!

So, I don't think the comparison is to Christianity or any other valid religion, but to those that use religion for their own deify-ment. [I know that's not a word. :o ]
"Deification." ;) But I agree. The point of the Ori isn't so much to have Christian overtones, in my opinion, it's to draw attention to the fact that blind devotion and overzealousness for any religion can lead to disaster.

golfbooy
July 30th, 2005, 11:17 AM
Well, I'm going to start by saying that depending on what your own personal sensibilities are, there was potentially a lot not to like about Origin. There are many not-veiled-at-all digs at organized religions, particularly Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, included in the script. Overall, Origin, the Ori, ect., seem designed to take a stab at religious fundamentalism, the idea that what any one person or group believes has to be absolutely the truth. You know, the people who want no questions asked or we'll kill you till you're dead, dead, dead, you blashpemous heathen, you non-believer, you corruptor of all that is good. None of that should, in and of itself, rankle anyone too much. The problem is that just about every major organized religion has been there, most assuredly done that. So, depending on who you are, it's easy to take some of what's presented, and certainly the tone in which it's presented, as insulting. Fortunately for me, I quite enjoy such discussions.

Overall, the quality of Origin was very good, just as I've come to expect from SG-1. They certainly don't seem to be having any money issues this year. The sets were very appropriate for the story, the costumes work well in helping to convey the basic ideas behind the Ori, and, well, the SGC set is always going to have juice. Also, and this is not my particular cup of tea, the special effects were impressive, helping to convey a broad impression of the Ori; I'd be remiss not to mention Joel Goldsmith's score in this regard as well. As many have stated, it's extremely well conceived and quite apropos.

Origin is, without a doubt, a functional story, an "information dump" as someone above called it. And, it is undeniably that. But I refuse to hold that against it, as it was very necessary in order to keep things rolling along. After Avalon 1 & 2 there had to be some explanation of where SG-1 is headed. I'm surprised to see some complaints that the Ori don't have enough depth or definition. This is only their first appearance, the writer's first foray into that storyline. There's undoubtably more to come, and I'd personally prefer not to learn all about them up front. If they're going to last as villains, and if the comments from Bridge are any indication, they're expected to, then I'll take my Ori a bit at a time, thank you very much.

Guest casting worked well for me, as well. Stargate usually casts actors in roles that they'll play well, and Origin is no exception. Julian Sands is an excellent choice as the doci, and the priors were well played too. The introduction to Lou Gossett's Gerak was more subdued than I expected it to be, though I don't think it necessarily weakened the character's presence. He's carefully being set up as an antagonist, one that seems to irk Teal'c simply with his presence. So far, and given the spoilers that I'm too weak to avoid, he seems to me to be the first Jaffa since Bra'tac to be so carefully constructed. I hope he works out as a truly memorable character along the lines of Mayborne or Kinsey, and not just as another Jaffa.

Neither Vala nor Mitchell had much to do in this episode, though I thought they both played their parts well. Mitchell, as a character, we seem to be getting in small doses, probably much to the chagrin of the entertainment media considering the ubiquitious articles touting Ben Browder as the new star. Personally, I like that we're not getting Mitchell shoved down our throats, even if the media is pushing with battering ram. I've never found Vala too annoying, and I still think she makes a fine recurring character. I'm not tired of her yet, and some sort of backstory will be welcome. For me, Landry was much better in this episode, much more toned down. Beau Bridges seemed to be trying too hard most of the time, but barring the scene where he announces that Daniel and Vala are once again awake, this week I thought his performance was good.
Originally Posted by Skydiver:
landry is ok, but i wish beau would lose the gruff hoarseness in his voice. or maybe it's always that way. his whispering gets on my nervesYeah, the hoarse, whispering delivery is very annoying. Hopefully, he'll leave it behind as he becomes more comfortable.

Both Daniel and Michael Shanks gave great performances here. Daniel's conversation with the doci was quintessential Daniel Jackson, and it was very much in keeping with SG-1's tone. The only thing that scene lacked, for me, was Carter, Teal'c and, O'neill standing there as he said it. Speaking of Teal'c, I'm a little disappointed that he hasn't had a bigger role, or that the Jaffa storyline didn't get more screentime. But, there's only 42 minutes, and I'm willing to wait. Chris Judge has been terrific with very little dialogue so far. I hope he has much more to come.

As for O'neill, I can sort of see the complaint of, "Why bother?" with just that. But I didn't see anything wrong with the scene, didn't see the two characters as disconnected. I think that Jack's declaration that he's hungry was in character, and I thought that both of his scenes were well written. In fact, such remarks have oft been used by Jack to deflect his own personal feelings, especially in the face of someone else's broad declaration of emotion. Redemption and Lost City spring immediately to mind. I did want Teal'c to be there with O'neill and Daniel, though. The argument against would likely be that such a scene only further highlights Carter's absence, but some nod to the original team would have been fitting. Ulitmately, however, I just want more Jack.

Lastly, I have to say that if the show is lacking anything, it's lacking Sam Carter. It's odd to think that all of this is going on without her there, even though the compressed time frame helps. I think that all of the characters will be more comfortable when she returns, and I personally can't wait till Beachead.

Albion
July 30th, 2005, 11:27 AM
I'm not nearly as angry as Albion

Yeah, it was nearly almost a coherent rant, wasn't it? :D That was smack off the bat of the end credits coming up. Calmed down a tad now. ;) Not so furious, but more just sad and disappointed that they handled things so poorly. Really, I just don't get what they were thinking to deal with Jack's leaving in this manner.

Still haven't given up on S9. But I suspect that's more because I'm reluctant to do so than because of anything the writers are doing to make me want to stay.

Looking forward to next week though in the hopes of something better and anticipating that perhaps Sam's return in a few weeks will improve things even more. :)

Albion :)

oragans
July 30th, 2005, 12:05 PM
i loved the episode it for me was one of the best - i haven't missed o'neil that much - the ori scary and are an awesome enemy.

SophieTucker
July 30th, 2005, 12:44 PM
I thought it was a great ep - one that I really need to watch again.

I agree that merely approaching the topic of religion is dangerous because so much can be misinterpreted (so much to say on that) but I think they did do a good job. And this wasn't the only story - there is still the situation with power mongers preying on the vulnerable (the Jaffa leadership battle)

I'm still finding Landry to one of the stronger characters this season.

What disturbs me are the all the comments comparing the Ori to Christianity. Of course not everyone agrees as to what Christianity is but I saw some basic fundamentals here - which a lot of people seem to have overlooked. What I mean is the battle between "free agency" and "coercion" - agency is the Christian point of view - force is the "other guy"... didn't anyone notice when Daniel mentioned that fire in Earth lore had become associated with "demons" he wondered if the Ancients were responsible for that... I suppose if Dante was a Ancient that is possible. Still if we applied that analogy to the Stargate pantheon that would make the Ancients the Christianlike beings and the Ori the Satanlike beings setting us up for the basic battle of good and evil. Now, that does sound familiar.

I think it was best described by a prior poster who pointed out that the Ori are some very powerful aliens who try to control people - nothing more or less. Still I think the story has some real potential for either major success or major disaster.

AGateFan
July 30th, 2005, 12:59 PM
I thought it was a great ep - one that I really need to watch again.

I agree that merely approaching the topic of religion is dangerous because so much can be misinterpreted (so much to say on that) but I think they did do a good job. And this wasn't the only story - there is still the situation with power mongers preying on the vulnerable (the Jaffa leadership battle)

I'm still finding Landry to one of the stronger characters this season.

What disturbs me are the all the comments comparing the Ori to Christianity. Of course not everyone agrees as to what Christianity is but I saw some basic fundamentals here - which a lot of people seem to have overlooked. What I mean is the battle between "free agency" and "coercion" - agency is the Christian point of view - force is the "other guy"... didn't anyone notice when Daniel mentioned that fire in Earth lore had become associated with "demons" he wondered if the Ancients were responsible for that... I suppose if Dante was a Ancient that is possible. Still if we applied that analogy to the Stargate pantheon that would make the Ancients the Christianlike beings and the Ori the Satanlike beings setting us up for the basic battle of good and evil. Now, that does sound familiar.

I think it was best described by a prior poster who pointed out that the Ori are some very powerful aliens who try to control people - nothing more or less. Still I think the story has some real potential for either major success or major disaster.

Oh I definitly think they set it up for the Ori to be like Satan and the Ancients to be like Christians. But there are some Christians\catholics\prodestants\lutherans\later day sainters that will find that insulting too. They will beleive it is an attempt to trivilize the religion. After all to Christians Jesus is the Son of God not an ascended anceint. And there are some people who are touchy and who can not deal with fiction that even sorta maybe hints that it could be otherwise even if it is just fiction... Thats all I was saying earlier.

Giantevilhead
July 30th, 2005, 01:00 PM
The Ori are like the Pah Wraiths and the Ancients are like the Prophets from DS9.

LoneStar1836
July 30th, 2005, 01:03 PM
Origin gets a big ol’ “Bleh!” from me. Didn’t like it.

Don’t like the direction they are taking with the heavy religious overtones. No thanks. This is my biggest dislike.

Didn’t like Mitchell in this one even though he was barely in it. And I really want to like this guy because I enjoy BB, yet I’m afraid he is going to be targeted as causing the downfall of SG-1 which he had no hand in. I want him to be more serious. Ditch the sarcasm and attempted humor, and not because I think they are trying to make him into a Jack but because I just don’t like it. The writers make him say some of this stuff, and all I can see is John Chricton snarking off. Hehe. At least he did do what I wanted to do and toss that device into the kawoosh. He earned points there. I’m still crossing my fingers for the character.

Don’t care for the Jaffa blah blah. Sorry, I don’t really care about all their political wrangling. Yes, that is a major repercussion of doing away with the Goa’uld, but it doesn’t really interest me. How many cuddly bunnies did Garak kill to make that coat and whatever that other thing was that he was wearing? :P Sorry. But when I’m sitting there thinking more about the actor’s wardrobe than whatever the heck he was saying, you’ve really lost me. I just couldn’t get over all the faux fur. And no I’m not a PETA supporter. ;)

Hated the send off for Jack. Couldn’t they at least had Shanks and RDA in the same freaking room. I mean buy MS a ticket to LA and film what you had to film. I didn’t like that. Not to mention that Teal’c and Carter weren’t included. It felt all wrong. Heck, I don’t even really remember what was even said in that scene between Jack and Daniel for being distracted by the obviousness that they weren’t even in the same room. I think the dialogue was fitting from what I remember in between my hating of how they filmed that, but I just hated the feel of that scene. Eh, Jack giving Mitchell his blessing. I can see him doing that but still it felt off and fake. *shrug* I miss the old competent Col. Jack O’Neill. The show will never be the same again. :( ETA: After finally reading some of this thread, I forgot to mention that yes I so hated RDA's performance in this ep as well. So not only couldn't I stand the fact that he and MS weren't in the same room, the whole send off was pitiful because RDA was obvioulsy having a bad day or something. Something he suffered from during the past two seasons. His heart was not in that. :(

Sorry, I just didn’t like this episode. So far none of these episodes have been very enthralling. I didn’t even watch all of last week’s episode cause we were watching the Houston Astros game and then didn’t bother to catch the second showing. And again last night I chose the Astros game over both eps of Stargate and caught the second showings of each. The Astros are kicking ass right now, Stargate is not. Bear in mind that’s just my personal opinion even if it is rather ugly. If people are really liking Stargate: SG-1 this season, then I’m happy for you. :)

Props to MS and CB. Even though I’m not feeling this storyline, their acting was good, especially MS. Though he still needs to tone it down with the speed reading of dialogue in spots. Surprisingly, Vala was not on my hate list. Shock. See what you can do writers when you drop the stupid, childish humor.

AGateFan
July 30th, 2005, 01:04 PM
The Ori are like the Pah Wraiths and the Ancients are like the Prophets from DS9.

The Ori are like the Shadows and the Anceints are like the Vorlons from B5... sort of. I think both the Prophets and the Vorlons interfered more then the "others" would appreciate... The Ancients seem more like the Q... at least the Q from the Star Trek books.

ping-pong
July 30th, 2005, 01:22 PM
Good job!!

"Origin" gives us the first introduction to the Ori. These are some creepy guys--not just in looks; but also in personas. My only gripe about this is: I can't tell which is the Ori, which is the Doci, and which is the Prior.

Daniel and Vala were good. Daniel contronting the Ori(?) guy about worship being personal choice was pretty good. Vala eating that apple in Daniel's face as he was reading and the look he gave her--*LOL*. Also the prior took Daniel to visit that Ori guy and closed the door on Vala so she wasn't able to tag along.*LOL*

I must agree I was also expecting Gerak to appear with a bang; but I'll be patient. I really beleive he's going to be Tealc's achilles heel for a while.

Even though Teal'c really didn't say much, he had some good moments too. You could see in his facial expression that he doesn't like nor trust Gerak. He showed restraint and self-control during the meeting with Gerak and Landry, although when the other Jaffa made that snide remark about whether or not Teal'c was loyal to his people, Teal'c was about to come across that table!! :cool:

Loved it when Teal'c and Mitchell unplugged and grabbed the device all while Dr Lee protested against it. They ran down that long hall way and threw the device in the wormhole saving daniel and Vala just in time. Then Teal'c and Mitchell grabbed each other's arm as if to say "we did it". Great bonding moment between them. :D

It was great seeing Jack and Daniel together again. But I would have also loved to see a scene with Jack and Teal'c also. :( These two were warrior 'brothers' who bonded from the very beginning.

KatG
July 30th, 2005, 01:50 PM
I rather enjoyed this one. Vala gets less annoying with each episode, and it was nice to see Daniel doing what he does so well. I found the story engaging and I find the Ori to be rather creepy. I think that they're much more dangerous than either the Gould or the Replicators. The Gould knew they were pretenders, the replicators went by instinct, but the Ori truly believe themselves to be gods. Scary stuff.

Seshat
July 30th, 2005, 02:01 PM
Oh I definitly think they set it up for the Ori to be like Satan and the Ancients to be like Christians. But there are some Christians\catholics\prodestants\lutherans\later day sainters that will find that insulting too. They will beleive it is an attempt to trivilize the religion. After all to Christians Jesus is the Son of God not an ascended anceint. And there are some people who are touchy and who can not deal with fiction that even sorta maybe hints that it could be otherwise even if it is just fiction... Thats all I was saying earlier.
I really think that the only people who will be offended are the ones who are continually looking for something about which to take offense. Lots of those around. :rolleyes:

flynn1959
July 30th, 2005, 02:12 PM
Amazing episode, just wonderful like the old Stargate .I can't wait for next week. Daniel and Vala are fantastic together.

We had team , off world action, really great new bad guys, did I mention Daniel?

We as a family are back...last year it was down to just me. Now son ,husband and two daughters have joined me...that's FOUR new fans, people who will buy d.v.d's ,T-shirts, mugs etc.

It's so good to have a show that we can all watch and enjoy.. thank you so much.

Roll on Friday!!!!

Sela
July 30th, 2005, 02:19 PM
The Ori are like the Shadows and the Anceints are like the Vorlons from B5... sort of. I think both the Prophets and the Vorlons interfered more then the "others" would appreciate... The Ancients seem more like the Q... at least the Q from the Star Trek books.
Now that you mention it, the Ori priors reminded me more of Landru followers from the original Star Trek series than anyone else.

prion
July 30th, 2005, 02:29 PM
Calicto's Review[/size]

Episode: Origin [SG-1 903]

Good Performances: Daniel Jackson, Vala, Mitchell, Gerak, Doci
Bad Performances: O'Neill



Disadvantages:

Unnecessary O'Neill cameo. Bad Acting.

Well, I'm too lazy right now so will just swipe your words. Yes, bad acting. When Jack appeared it was jarring and I could swear that RDA just sleptwalk through the dialogue. It honestly looked like he just wanted to do his lines and leave.

Osiris
July 30th, 2005, 02:40 PM
I really think that the only people who will be offended are the ones who are continually looking for something about which to take offense. Lots of those around. :rolleyes:

Couldn't agree more. :rolleyes:

I agree on the RDA acting... it's like he was forced to do it... was he? :rolleyes:

Quinn Mallory
July 30th, 2005, 03:14 PM
This was an awesome episode as we see the various storylines being layed out for this season and beyond.

I think the religious aspect of the story add depth to the show and I know/hope the writers will keep pushing the envelope on this with the relevance to the current world event. I'm also quite interested in seeing how Sam (being the scientist) will react to the Orii.

Daniel's_twin
July 30th, 2005, 03:20 PM
I was looking forward to this poignant episode since I heard about it, and I was not disappointed. The Fire of the Orii was an awsome effect, and the Priors are absolutely creepy (tho their city was beautiful. Looks can be deceiving). The scene where Daniel and Vala are disconnected and the people who they were walking around in experienced their "due punishment" sent shivers up and down my spine for the next five minutes, even after re-watching it. The action was great, and I even enjoyed the political aspect of the New Jaffa Nation.

Agree with the RDA scene. It was nice to see him before we continue with the rest of the season, but he didn't look like he was enjoying it a whole heck of a lot. He looked very tired, especially in the F-302 scene.

I must admit, I was a little afraid about how close they were going to bring the Orii to Christianity, but I think that they drew the line pretty clearly, and continue to promote the dangers of worshipping False gods.

To sum it all up, I enjoyed this episode a whole lot. Enjoyed it more then Atlantis. I give it ****3/4. :cool:

rnwhocares
July 30th, 2005, 03:28 PM
Hmmm, I am going to have to watch this again before I can decide what I really thought about it. Off the top of my head I can say I have no problem with the Orii and think this plotline has great potential. However, it does kind of make me nervous for ratings and new viewers, I actually know people that wont watch Hellboy because they think its sacreligious. On the other hand it could pull in a bunch of viewers like the 2nd post indicated.

Overall on first viewing I liked the ep but thought there was just somthing.... missing. And Im not talking about the RDA scenes... what they couldnt get him and MS in the same room at the same time? They should have just left that out as badly as it was done.... Oh well, no good sendoff and no actual confirmation of where he went. Maybe we will get confirmation next ep.

I like Daneil trying to talk some since into the Prior and Doci, very Daniel. I feel kind of bad for him, he knows hes messed up caused a crusade against our galaxy by some big bad evil dudes plus he caused the horrible death of 2 inocent people.

I was impressed with Vala. She faced her second impending death very well. I think Tea'lc would have been proud.

Mitchell didnt have much to do. This ep he had the lines I couldnt understand instead of MS... dont know if he was talking fast or low or what but I couldnt really understand half of what he said.

So Garak is not just an annoying jaffa hes a potential murdering powermonger with his own first prime, thats disturbing. I see much annoying dialogue coming from him.

Tea'lc did he actually speak in this ep? He certainly looked good in it but he like Mitchell didnt seem to have much to do.

Doc was ok as was Landry and Lee. Walter was stellar as always (wheres Siler!!!)

I think the priors are scarier then the Doci. Doci were a bit OTT for me but the priors are just creepy.

I would give this ep a B- on first viewing. Still good but not as good as Avalon 1 and 2 in my opinion, which may change on second viewing. :)
Siler almost got ran into by Teal'C and Mitchell running to the gate room

rnwhocares
July 30th, 2005, 03:36 PM
You know what noticed, at about halfway through the episode, after Vala and Daniel return to the house, when Vala looks at the mirror, you see the other woman. But when Daniel walks past, you don't see the other guy (he's suppose to be) walking past, you see {Michael} Shanks as Daniel walking past. I see they screwed up.

And one more thing, Origin is best episode of Season 9 thus far.
Hey, I noticed that too. Michael walked by really fast so you wouldn't notice.

PsychoPenguin
July 30th, 2005, 03:38 PM
I'm always hesitant to post my opinion in "SG1" episode threads because, try as I might, I just can't seem to invest in these characters. I'm actually still trying to work out whether or not I'll keep watching now that the three-part season premiere is over. Thus, I'm doing this based on the premise that working out and articulating my opinion of this ep will help me decide. Anyway, let's see what happens.

--In terms of plot: still felt like the pacing of this ep was off, just as in the first two eps. To me, the cuts between the different points of action felt choppy, and the action felt like it really slowed down in places. This made it difficult for me to jump in and be taken along for the ride.

Also, while I'm encouraged by the idea of "Stargate" taking on a meaty issue like religion and religious fanaticism, it felt to me like the themes were (and will continue to be in the future) handled too facilely. ("We just met you. You don't agree with us. We must convert you. Now!...Because we're just *that* fanatical...") To my mind, if you're going to take on something as complex as religion, then you owe it to your audience to make both sides as three dimensional as possible, so that the issue will really mean something. Right now though, the Ori look like your typical two-dimensional bad guys, which kind of nullifies the whole religious issue, and any possibility of addressing it with any real depth, debate, or meaning.

This in turn makes the Ori come off as a bit of a tease as far as I'm concerned. They're "new bad guys," and yet, not really. I especially didn't feel that they justified the line about being scared that Daniel said to Jack. If anything, I thought that Daniel should be yelling for some of Oma's relatives and demanding that they come down and tell him all about these Ori. Immediately. That would have made more sense to me.

--In terms of characters, like I said, I'm just not there with these guys. I'm still sort of disappointed to see CB playing the "immoral bad girl, who's just there to be reformed by the good guy." Also, although I'm always happy to hear a *real* Southern accent in a TV show, BB's Mitchell isn't appealing to me yet, through what I see as no fault of the actor's. Rather, I feel like the writers sort of shoehorned this character's backstory in too soon, forcefeeding us all these reasons *why* we should like this character before we'd had a chance to decide for ourselves. They seem to have forgotten that character traits are best when they're shown rather than told, and because of that, I'm just not warming up to this character the way I would have liked to.

So I can forget having the appeal of the characters make me overlook the plot problems, something I know I've been able to do with other shows in the past.

--In terms of acting, no real complaints here, other than with the cameos at the end. I'm not a real RDA or Jack fan, but geez, even I could tell those things were phoned in. I can only imagine how let down a true fan would be.

--Finally, in terms of realism, Jack's line about being a general and being able to do anything made me laugh. Really, really laugh. Because it's *so* not true!

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Am I still going to continue to watch? I don't know. I'm very intrigued by "Firefly," still interested in "SGA," and "SG1" does fall conveniently inbetween the two.

We'll just have to see. :)

joasia
July 30th, 2005, 03:40 PM
You know what noticed, at about halfway through the episode, after Vala and Daniel return to the house, when Vala looks at the mirror, you see the other woman. But when Daniel walks past, you don't see the other guy (he's suppose to be) walking past, you see {Michael} Shanks as Daniel walking past. I see they screwed up.I just checked - it looks like it could be Daniel, but id does not has to be him. We see his back mostly... And we do hear Harrid, not Daniel.

..I wish SG-1 had a policy like Starfleet in Star Trek had after the disastrous first contact with the Klingons...COVERT SURVEILLANCE first!!!! Don't give away your name, identity, planet of origin...I got the impression that Daniel did not introduce himself neither to the Prior not to the Doci. Which could mean that Ori made some of their servants telepathic. Not a good sign.

Gerak only said the Jaffa seek enlightenment, something we've known since we first met Oma. I highly doubt they'd be willing to submit to such a harsh doctorine after escaping from another.Gerak looks like a man that will happily embrace anyone who will give him a more power that he already have. I wonder how he would look after the "bleaching" i.e. transformation into a Prior. :D

I think the writers are connecting the Ori to religious extremism. It's not about a certain type of religion, it's about the extreme branches of all religions that takes things way too far. I mean, the Ori are basically what religious extremism looks like; 6 hours of daily prayer, followed by dinner and heretic burning for entertainment.For the sake of poor Ori worshippers I do hope that Daniel and Vala had arrived on a local Sunday. If they would do it every day it means that they would have to work at night.

Nice distant "city of the gods" illusion. Splashdown ring transport effect was kinda nice, too!
I liked the "walking on a water" effect. Talking about miracles... ;)

Thank you to everyone who pointed out that that was Julian Sands! I THOUGHT that was him, although his wacky contacts threw me off a bit and I wasn't sure. I was very surprised that he was not promoted as a special guest star (at least I didn't notice a lick of PR about his upcoming appearance) and his name has pull (at least for me, ah yes, Room with a View...sigh...). He is a lovely, lovely man, and an absolute gem of an actor. I couldn't find him listed in the credits at GW OR in the IMBD credits for this ep. I certainly hope we see more of him. :DTrue, I have noticed his name first time in the episode credits. Could be that JS had been a one-time guest while LGJ will be semi regular so he got the attention and PR.

Am I the only one who reacted to the Prior's words "That was a miracle" by almost starting to hum a certain song from the "Fiddler on the Roof"? :D

And Vala finally has taken the damned brancelets off Daniel and herself...

acdj31
July 30th, 2005, 04:47 PM
I like this ep. I like the scene at the end with RDA and MS. The episode stirred up some questions (which some people have posted) which I hope tptb will answer some.
But one question I have is, how is this war between the Ori and the Ancients going to effect non-humans, like the Asguard. Are the Asguard going to us and the Ancients out?

IMForeman
July 30th, 2005, 04:48 PM
Oh, and how great was it to hear Mitchell quoting Buckaroo Banzai, and actually crediting the reference! That was fantastic. Though, at first, I thought that scene with Mitchell confronting the Prior was a little John Crichtonesque, he did pull it back and away from Crichton. Mitchell isn't completely nuts for one...

-IMF

majorsal
July 30th, 2005, 04:55 PM
>>all the Ori have the same personality, which is frankly, a very cheesy personality.<<

Well, theoretically we've only seen one Ori via the Doci- it's the Priors who are mostly similar, but then the personality issue there really isn't any worse than your generic Jaffa in the earlier seasons.

i watched this ep, and i'm thoroughtly confused by who's the ori, the doci, and the priors. so, can someone tell me the players again? (can you give me examples?)

sally :)

IMForeman
July 30th, 2005, 04:57 PM
i watched this ep, and i'm thoroughtly confused by who's the ori, the doci, and the priors. so, can someone tell me the players again? (can you give me examples?)

sally :)

The Ori are the fire, the Doci was the guy with the funky metal neckpiece, and the Priors were the creepy monk guys who carried staffs.

-IMF

chocdoc
July 30th, 2005, 06:42 PM
Origin, although a bit slow (a friend of mine fell asleep during the episode), gave us some information about the new enemy, the Ori. This was the best part of this episode for me. I feel a bit ambivalent about the Ori, but I think there is potential for good storytelling in season nine. This was the best part of the episode for me. I'm looking forward to seeing what they are capable of and what our team needs to do to stop them. They are frightening to me because religious zealots are frightening to me in general!

It is very odd to me, but I actually liked Mitchell LESS in this third episode than in the first two episodes. I didn't expect to feel this way. I found him all over the place in Origin. And the way BB delivered his lines just seemed off to me. But I am certainly going to give Mitchell/BB time to get into his role. I actually wasn't as fond of Landry either this time around --- it made me realize how much I miss Hammond, but again I'll get used to him.

Daniel and Vala were good in this episode. One thing bothered me though. I was surprised that Daniel would not have much reaction to Harrid and Sallis's deaths. I wonder if they will deal with this in a future episode. Daniel was very Daniel-like talking with the Doci, but he was not at all Daniel-like for me when they were brought back into their own bodies--I would think he would be more horrified than he expressed about the two people that just got burned to death.

I also was expecting a bit more Teal'c in this third episode, given that he has had so little in the first two episodes. Garek and Jaffe Nation political stuff was okay, but it doens't grab me yet, but at least Teal'c is involved in this part of the story line. So far, Teal'c has been wallpapered in the first three episodes of this season more than any other season I can think of. I'm guessing this won't continue since CJ mentioned he had to memorize lines!


The worst part of the episode was the end with RDA. It made me very sad and disappointed. The Daniel-Jack scene was pathetic. Man, I wish RDA had not been in the episode at all, because this was not O'Neill. Daniel opens up to him about his fears, and O'Neill's line of, I'm hungry, just didnt' cut it. As well, the interaction between Mitchell and O'Neill was a waste of time. Give those two minutes to a little more interaction with Daniel AND a scene with Teal'c. Or why not have the Jack scene at the end with Daniel AND Teal'c. Daniel could have easily expressed his fear of the Ori to both of them. That would have been a more powerful scene. And surprisingly, the general viewers still don't know where Jack went! It should have been a much better send-off.

Did they just have RDA in episodes 1 and 3 for ratings?


Even with all this, I look forward to what this enemy is capable of.

And I really look forward to Sam returning as well. It makes sense that there is not much of a team sense yet because she is not back, but I look forward to that team feel again, where the chemistry between the cast shines through. Right now, only Daniel and Vala have some ease and chemistry together.

I think the show will only keep going if they have a really interesting enemy (there is potential here), and most importantly, if they have TEAM chemistry (there is potential for this as well down the road).

saxamoophone
July 30th, 2005, 07:04 PM
The episode overall was alright. I just don't see how long they can stretch this 'bad guy' out for. It's an enemy that is going to have the power of the gods at they disposal. How can you fight that? I just hope that it doesn't end up be a let down!

And let's see more of the free galaxy that's now out there. including the millions of now FREE humans!

And as every other person has mentioned, WHAT WAS UP WITH JACK?!?!
I could understand how they wanted to look a lil sad, afterall, the jack character would have wanted to play around with guns and blow stuff up over be incharge of Homeworld Security or play general....

but... that wasnt' even a sad jack tonight...it was.... a cardboard cutout. Were the two of them even in the same damn room? it's like they went to LA and filmed him with a blue screen and then cut and edited him and daniel together....

Was this bad directing?
Bad script writting?
Was RDA just sick that day?

Or....what i'm afraid of, is that, he just stopped caring about Stargate. Over the summer they kept saying how they were "trying to get RDA to do a episode or two". And all they could work out was 3 1/2 scenes? If you spent 8 years doing a show and developing a character, the least I think a actor would want to do is make sure he gets a great send off. I just don't see how anyone could call it that. Jack's character may have been dumb-afied over the past few years (S7 mostly...), but, the jack we saw last night wasnt' the one we all fell in love with. Maybe this was just a mistake and the producers know it, but..... dont' let jack leave this way, producers we're talking to you, RDA, you too.... jack was a great part of stargate for 8 years, he made it what it is, and, to leave this way......makes captain kirk falling off a bridge seem like an oscar winning performance....

the fifth man
July 30th, 2005, 07:39 PM
After seeing this one, definitely can't wait to see what else lies ahead this season.

Dana_Jeanne
July 30th, 2005, 07:45 PM
The only person whom Daniel gave his name and origin to was Pharrin (not sure of the spelling). So how did the Doci know who he was and where he was from? Mind reading?

So if the Orii can read minds, why did they need to send Daniel and Vala back to the village in order to find the non-believers?

Or have they always known about the non-believers?

And.... When Pharrin shows up that night, why is the front door suddenly in the bedroom? The bedroom is upstairs, but Pharrin knocks on a door and they all go back out the same door. In the bedroom. Upstairs.

Confused.

Dana Jeanne

ChillinTheMost
July 30th, 2005, 07:59 PM
Originally Posted by NowIWillDestroyAbydos
You know what noticed, at about halfway through the episode, after Vala and Daniel return to the house, when Vala looks at the mirror, you see the other woman. But when Daniel walks past, you don't see the other guy (he's suppose to be) walking past, you see {Michael} Shanks as Daniel walking past. I see they screwed up.
I didn't notice that, I thought it did change to the other guy, but he did go by fast, so... However, I did notice that when they were in the mirror, the voices changed to the other people [I can't remember their names]. I thought that was pretty cool. I believe it even changed in the middle of a sentence and they got it to flow nicely. Nice piece of work that wasn't needed, but pretty cool that they went to the trouble.

Oh, yeah, just in case anyone read my previous post, I've watched the episode again and I caught the details with throwing the communication device in the wormhole, so in case you were planning on explaining it to me: I've got it now. :D I really shouldn't post if the only time I've seen the episode is at 2am after hanging out. :D Also, on 2nd viewing, RDA didn't look as bad to me. *Sigh of relief*

FoolishPleasure
July 30th, 2005, 09:23 PM
Lots of discussion on this episode. . I'll just say I really liked it. The Ori are very creepy and have a lot of potential.

There still doesn't seem to be a cohesive element to the show. . .yet. I think once the "team" is back together (with Sam) then we will get a better feel on the direction the show is taking.

I'm not a Beau Bridges fan but I've taken to him as Landry. Lexa seems like a Janet clone (they should have kept Janet, IMO).

ComicDiva
July 30th, 2005, 10:23 PM
From the Ori bible:
"And on the seventh day Joe Average the believer got zombified! Hollowed are the Ori."


Well... Origin was, ahm... interesting for lack of a better word. We got to know the Ori a bit more and I gotta agree with Daniel. They be scary little s'o'bs. But just like Corpy pointed out, they're basically goa'uld version 2.0. Which is a shame because when the demon thingie possesed that guy to talk to Daniel it said: "We do not require blind faith."
shyeah right! It will be interesting to see if the Ancients react at all to their presence in our galaxy. It's kind of ironic how they claim to be enlightened and yet resort to such crude methods as mass manipulation and religious dogma. Maybe they got the nasty part of the enlightenement, and the Ancients got the good part. And I'd like to see how they're gonna try to convert the asgard:
"Hollowed are the... ugggh! You guys are ugly!"
Now that I think about it... those silly Ori have no idea what they're getting into. Coming into a galaxy that has not only humans, but Asgards, Nox, some left over goa'ulds, grandmas. Seriously now, we'd better be scared for them!
Mitchell - still an O'Neill clone, but with a certain southern flavour.
Teal'c- Hang in there buddy. I'm romanian so I know something about these dictator figures. Sooner or later somebody is gonna execute him. Maybe it's gonna be you!
Vala and Daniel: just shut up and start making babies already.
The General: So classy, so diplomatic, so full of ****, so american.
Walter: keep up the good work. You know you're the only reason that place is still runing.

LoveYouBaby
July 31st, 2005, 02:59 AM
I thought this episode was better than Atlantis' "Runner".

We learned more about the Ori, basically a faction to the Ancients... a slight difference in opinion of galactic proportions!

I like how the writers wrote in the "fire" comment, Daniel suspected the Ancients made the "fire" icon to be referred to hell and evil aka the Ori. Whilst the Ancients when ascended was a bright white light, the Ori are a flame vapor.

Vala appears to have changed... for the better, well, sorta. She did slip back down a bit, but you can see, she's alive and well. Even though the 2 hosts, Daniel and Vala were in were burned.

I like the nice ending (Jack & Daniel, non-ship reference), including the incidental music, it was very nice. 2 buddies catching up.

Let's hope for a 10th Season featuring more of the Ori, one season is just simply not enough.

QuiGonJohn
July 31st, 2005, 05:20 AM
I liked this episode a lot. Can't believe 10 pages already. Wish Jack was more upbeat, glad to see Daniel. I guess the sadness is to show how he misses working with those guys.

I think there is a lot of potential in where they are going with the Ori.

akimbo
July 31st, 2005, 05:27 AM
Am I the only one who reacted to the Prior's words "That was a miracle" by almost starting to hum a certain song from the "Fiddler on the Roof"? :D

You're not the only one, as soon as he said it I hummed in my head "that was a miracle, too". That song (and parts of the rest of "Fiddler") have been in and out of my brain all weekend.

Dana_Jeanne
July 31st, 2005, 07:36 AM
Is it possible the Alterens built the commuication devices so that they could communicate with each other? Wait, let me think this thourgh....

We have the Alterrans. For some reason half of them decide to leave the planet. The other half remains. They've built these devices so they can comunicate with each other wherever they are.

The Alterans left on the planet eventually ascend to become the Orii and humans evolve however you'd like to believe. Because the Orii feel they should be worshipped, they keep the developement of these humans back to the middle ages.

The second group of Alterans have gone to earth. There's a plague and they leave for the Pegasus galaxy. The Wriath wipe a lot of them out, and most of what's left ascend to become our anceints. Merlin goes back to earth to keep an eye on it and to "bury" the device with the treasure.

Since the Orii know the alterans left earth-- or perhaps they started the plague and don't know some escaped-- they don't pay attention to it anymore and the Ancients completely hide from them the fact that there are now humans in this galaxy.

They don't like what the Orii have turned into and take the fire that are the Orii and turn into a different meaning for humans (hell and so forth).

The fact that Harrod and Sallis didn't walk around in Daniel and Vala's bodies could be because, in order for the device to work correctly, the two who are tuned in to the stones must put thier stones into thier device at the same time.

Dana Jeanne

FoolishPleasure
July 31st, 2005, 08:12 AM
I've read a lot of this thread, but must admit I haven't read EVERY post here (hanging head in shame), and I have a teeny question on the episode:

Loved the look of the transport rings coming up through the water, but why are the priors using ring technology? Didn't Daniel say they were in a different galaxy? (maybe they aren't). . .The Gou'ald have been the only race we have seen using the rings, but were the rings originally designed by the Ancients (who are different than the Ori)?

As for the RDA cameo - he was definitely sleepwalking. Wish they had just left that out as he obviously didn't want to be there.

AGateFan
July 31st, 2005, 08:15 AM
I've read a lot of this thread, but must admit I haven't read EVERY post here (hanging head in shame), and I have a teeny question on the episode:

Loved the look of the transport rings coming up through the water, but why are the priors using ring technology? Didn't Daniel say they were in a different galaxy? (maybe they aren't). . .The Gou'ald have been the only race we have seen using the rings, but were the rings originally designed by the Ancients (who are different than the Ori)?

As for the RDA cameo - he was definitely sleepwalking. Wish they had just left that out as he obviously didn't want to be there.

You are right it was stated in Avalon that the Ancients created the ring technology. We actually dont know that the Ancients and the Ori are different. They may be the same speicies. We know that the Ancients came from the same galaxy as the Ori and Daniel thinks the Ori may be "the people left behind by the ancients". So it make since they would use the same kind of technology.

Saddly I agree with the RDA statement.

TheCorpulent1
July 31st, 2005, 08:50 AM
Yeah, Vala suggests they use the rings to penetrate Glastonbury Tor and everyone looks at her like she's crazy because the (heretofore believed to be) superior Asgard transporters couldn't penetrate it. But then she points out that the Ancients were the gate builders and "they invented the rings, too." I was a bit confused that the SGC people didn't know the rings were Ancient technology, since they seem to have uncovered more about the Ancients than anyone else. But then again, I didn't know the Ancients had invented the rings until Vala pointed it out, so it's possible that that was the first mention of the rings' being Ancient tech that the Goa'uld just stole.

Dani347
July 31st, 2005, 10:52 AM
Yeah, Vala suggests they use the rings to penetrate Glastonbury Tor and everyone looks at her like she's crazy because the (heretofore believed to be) superior Asgard transporters couldn't penetrate it. But then she points out that the Ancients were the gate builders and "they invented the rings, too." I was a bit confused that the SGC people didn't know the rings were Ancient technology, since they seem to have uncovered more about the Ancients than anyone else. But then again, I didn't know the Ancients had invented the rings until Vala pointed it out, so it's possible that that was the first mention of the rings' being Ancient tech that the Goa'uld just stole.


Or, maybe they were just surprised that she was the one who came up with the suggestion. Maybe they weren't expecting anything helpful from her.

TheCorpulent1
July 31st, 2005, 11:19 AM
I first realized that the Ancients built the rings after I watched the Lost City part 2 when Jack using the Ancient knowledge modified the rings to cut through the ice to get to the outpost.

Daniel also said the Ancients built the stargates their should be a set of rings down their somewhere - in the same episode
I figured Jack modifying the rings reflected the Ancients' technological wizardry, not that the Ancients necessarily invented the rings. Last time he had the Ancient repository downloaded into his brain, he used Earth items to build a functioning ZPM and interface it with the SGC's power supply. Orlin built his own Stargate out of Earth materials, too. The Ancients could've easily been able to modify the rings even if they were alien technology, since it appears as if Ancient tech is far beyond just about everything extant in the galaxy today.

lily
July 31st, 2005, 11:30 AM
OK, due to real life getting in the middle lately, I haven't had time to watch "Avalon part 2" and "Origin" as many times as I would have like to. In fact I watched "Origin" just once so far. I hope I can watch it more times next week.

Also, because of real life, I haven't had the time to read all the comments regarding "Origin" in the lists and forums I'm in. I just read a few scattered comments.

Here are my thoughts after watching last Friday's episode just once (I might have other inputs after more re-watching):

- I find the Ori much scarier than the Goa'uld. Don't get me wrong. I loved the Goa'uld arc (if not, I wouldn't have spent so much time watching 8 seasons of a show). I loved the Egyptian mythology basis, and it was one of the things that got me hooked on Stargate. I found the premise interesting, but I never found the Goa'uld really scary. However, at least from what I can see so far, the Ori seem to be really scary people. It seems it'll be a really interesting story arc, at least IMHO.

- Daniel and Vala. I enjoyed the scenes with both, as much as I enjoyed those two in previous episodes. They have great chemistry. I'm not implying ship. Just that they are great working together. I liked Vala in "Prometheus Unbound" and in "Avalon part 1", and I loved Vala in "Avalon part 2" and "Origin". I don't mind the Vala from "PU" and "Avalon I" being in more episodes through out the season, but I wouldn't like that Vala to become part of the main cast. I would love, however, to see the Vala from "Avalon II" and "Origin" to become a regular.

- I miss Sam and I'm looking forward to her return in "Beachhead". Wish we had a small cameo in every episode, as we had in "Avalon I"

- Ge'rak (sp?) seems to be a nice addition to the Jaffa world. Looking forward to Teal'c/Bra'tac/Ge'rak interaction. It should be really interesting.

- Loved the scene with Mitchell aiming his gun at the Prior in the briefing room. I would've loved to see what Daniel and Vala managed to say in the infirmary when they got briefly back, that triggered that reaction. My guess is that scene was actually filmed but cut from the final version due to time constraints

- Loved the scene where Cameron and Teal'c run with the Ancient device, and Walter stops the dialing sequence (hey, I didn't know, or at least didn't remember, they could do that)

- Loved the scene between Jack and Daniel. I've read some comments about people being dissapointed with this scene. It's amazing how an scene can convey different feelings to different persons. For me this scene was really great. I felt like I was watching a couple of close friends talking back after being away for a while. When I heard Jack's line "I'm hungry" and saw Daniel's smile when hearing this, and both leaving Daniel's office, for me it was clear that they were going together to have something to eat and have a long talk just as the long time friends they are. For me it was an absolutely wonderful scene.
As I said, it's amazing how the very same scene can mean so many different things for different fans :)

Those are my highlights for this episode.

Not so good parts? Maybe the last scene in the F-302 could've been done a bit better, but I don't find it necessarily bad.

CuJoX
July 31st, 2005, 12:07 PM
Great episode. The Ori seems to be some scary bad guys. What do the followers of the Ori say everytime? "Hallo'd are the Ori" or something close to it? Sorry about the spelling there. I think it was great how they made Daniel tell Jack that it's the first time that he's been scared after having met the Ori, it sure grabbed my attention. Wished Sam could make small appearances every episode until Beachhead.

Scarym1
July 31st, 2005, 12:46 PM
I personally LOVED the Jack and Daniel scene. I thought it was so classic. I was almost finished watching Origins when I remember that Jack is supposed to show up.

When Daniel was alone in his office, I thought that this is when Jack is going to show up. I was quite excited when he did. I love the banter. I loved how surprised and happy he was to see Jack. I thought when Jack said he was sorry that Daniel missed the Daedelaus (sp) and Daniel said that no he wasn't sorry was excellent. The expression on Jack's face was great. I think it has become a sort of private joke between the two of them. That no matter how many times Daniel asks to go he just can't seem to leave.

I really like the "I am scared" and "I am hungry" banter. It said so much with so few words. It was great to see Daniel admit that Jack would be the only one he would truly express his fears to. I believe that Jack is as afraid as Daniel but he chooses to express himself by changing the subject. I love that Daniel realizes what Jack is doing and doesn't push it. He knows that Jack is as concerned with this as he is. They then go off for lunch and they might even talk some more about this.

As for the rest of the ep, I think it started off slow but picked up nicely near the end. I am goin to have to watch it a second time to really catch everything.

Mio
July 31st, 2005, 12:46 PM
You know, this episode made me realize a posibility about 'Threads'. Its about when the Ancients refused to intervene. In any case, thinking this might make our Ancients seem slightly less cold and uncaring.

Its possible that they actually wanted to stop Anubis, but were too busy hiding us from the Orii to actually do anything about it, or if they had done anything about it, the Orii would have found out, and sent Priors anyway.


Just a random thought.

joasia
July 31st, 2005, 02:16 PM
Yeah, Vala suggests they use the rings to penetrate Glastonbury Tor and everyone looks at her like she's crazy because the (heretofore believed to be) superior Asgard transporters couldn't penetrate it. But then she points out that the Ancients were the gate builders and "they invented the rings, too." I was a bit confused that the SGC people didn't know the rings were Ancient technology, since they seem to have uncovered more about the Ancients than anyone else. But then again, I didn't know the Ancients had invented the rings until Vala pointed it out, so it's possible that that was the first mention of the rings' being Ancient tech that the Goa'uld just stole.For me the looks has been more like "Why didn't we think about it!?" The same kind Jack would get every time he has been right ;). As for the rings being an Ancient technolody I do not remember it stated this way, but somewhere someone mentioned that the rings are basically "stargates light", for short-distance transport. We know the stargates has been built by Ancients, so no surprise with the Ancient rings for me.

Giantevilhead
July 31st, 2005, 06:18 PM
I wonder if the Ori ascend by burning themselves to death. Maybe the prior who set himself on fire actually ascended.

vikingjedi
August 1st, 2005, 03:43 AM
I have a question.

I remember one of the prior's saying something to the effect of "When so and so fell from the sky he caught himself, and that is truely great"

Do yall think it could refer to the devil being cast out of Heaven?

Sam_o_Neill
August 1st, 2005, 04:19 AM
I can't believe that was the last we are going to see of Jack!!!! It didn't seem like him at all! I don't know why RDA played it like that but it seemed forced somehow :S:(

The episode wasn't too bad, still liking Cameron but I am really disappointed with RDA's appearance especially since its the last we are going to have for a long while...:(
I just can't wait until Sam comes back! Hopefully that will bring back more of the old Stargate feel.

My Rating 3/7 :(

entil2001
August 1st, 2005, 05:15 AM
This is essentially the end of the long process of “passing the torch”, which was, I suppose, an inevitable storytelling concern. I like the fact that they allow the new characters to establish themselves first before having O’Neill show up and give his own brand of approval. It actually feels a bit intrusive when he walks in the door, and that tells me that the writers have made their case for the new team.

So this is the beginning of a new direction in the “Stargate” mythology. Actually, it feels like an organic extension of what has come before, especially in light of what’s been happening in the Pegasus Galaxy. The Ancients (Altera, Alterans, whatever) started out as these great enlightened folk, but over the past several seasons, their motives and choices have been seriously questioned.

Enter the Ori (nice play on the word “origin”!), who seem to have taken the whole “holier than thou” thing to a whole new level. As the characters point out constantly in this episode, the Ori are even worse than the snakeheads, because in a lot of ways, the Ori have all the hallmarks of gods. There must be a weakness, but it’s certainly not evident at this point. And thanks to the usual “Stargate” method of taking all possible precautions, Daniel hands the Ori a whole new galaxy to convert or annihilate.

Granted, it’s not all Daniel’s fault; how could he know that the Ori were assuming that their brethren back in the Milky Way were running things with an equally iron fist? If there’s one thing that “Stargate” has underscored over the years, it’s the fact that a relatively weak alliance built on celebration of diversity will always look like a feast to much stronger totalitarian regimes.

Naturally, the new Jaffa Nation would be a strong ally for the effort to contain and repel this new influx of “false gods”, but I don’t think it will be that easy. There’s the general disdain of Teal’c, for one thing, and the overwhelming sense that Gerak thinks that he ought to be given a lot more respect and authority in all matters than he really deserves. I suspect that the ongoing struggle to maintain that alliance will play in the hands of the Priory.

Several things are suggested about the Priors in this episode. First, it seems as though the Ori transform normal humans into some kind of modified servant. Those servants become the Priors, and there’s certainly a sense that there’s some mind control at work. Again, shades of the Goa’uld, but this time, the mind control is inherent, not based on a distinct parasite. Beyond that, the Priors have the resources to build ships and use gate travel to get to other galaxies without much effort. They also seem to remain in general telepathic contact with one another, possible with their relationship to the Ori at the center of it all.

While the followers of the Priory are not unlike the Jaffa in terms of their numbers and enslavement to a more powerful set of beings, the Ori trump the snakeheads in one major regard: thus far, it doesn’t look like there’s conflict between camps of Ori. The Goa’uld could be set against one another with relative ease, thus providing the alliance with a means of fighting a stronger enemy by fostering internecine warfare. While the Ancients have had a few “bad apples” like Oma running around, they tend to be rather unified in their decisions. It looks like the Ori are the same way, and that’s a problem.

So what’s the solution? Mitchell is the ostensible leader, but Daniel is definitely taking a more central role. That makes sense, given that the most obvious means of fighting the Ori would involve either his connection to the Ancients themselves or (more realistically) his ability to utilize Ancient tech when it’s discovered. They might even get to use former enemies like the remaining Goa’uld. Assuming that the series continues to have strong support, the arrival of the Ori is actually a great device for exploring the post-System Lords status quo.

I like this direction (despite some of the retreads of the “false gods” motif) because it opens the door to a deeper sense of philosophical exploration, much like the earlier seasons. There’s still plenty of the trademark cheesiness, but there’s a great chill factor to it all as well. The Doci, played by John Malkovich’s evil twin (Mr. Warlock Julian Sands, I believe), is one creepy guy, and I love how he casually dismisses Daniel’s attempt at embracing cultural differences. Mitchell is showing a bit more of the “John Crichton” personality that Browder loves to channel, but it actually makes sense, given that Mitchell is dealing with adversity through humor. It’s much like O’Neill, before he started being a bit too snarky. Now that the premiere is done and the torch has been passed, it should be interesting to see how the writers deal with the week-to-week cast integration.

DarkQuee1
August 1st, 2005, 01:06 PM
Guess logic and continuity are things of the past in StargateLand. Three eps and holes in all of them. Ideas that look good as high concept, but don't get thought through. (If Vala and Daniel are "tied" by those bracelets, then there should have been some residual kickback to Daniel from her burning.) Not to mention the beating the characters have been taking since the start of season 8.

Of course, some of the character problems have always been there: there tends to be no consequences carried along in this show from things that happen. (C'mon, no apparent residuals for Jack after "Abyss"?) And here it is again: I didn't notice any particular deepening of Vala's character after her last-week's experience--and next week looks like high school locker room time all over again.

Still, you'd think that by now Daniel would have learned to refrain from just trying things because they're there--without figuring out what they actually do first. End result of that exercise in lack of common sense was to alert an enemy to our existence (though that makes no sense at all; more on that later). Not to mention, being responsible for the two people who's bodies they inhabited ending up being burned alive--and I didn't notice any particular guilt or regret being exhibited by either Daniel or Vala at the end of the ep over that. What the heck. Guess it would get in the way of the fun.

Loved the hint of "White Man's Burden" at the beginning of the ep in regard to all those people out there who are now rudderless and darn if they don't need us to show them the way.

Not to mention the suddenly religious aspects--which they have wisely avoided until this season--of the conversation in the briefing room. Now we're bringing God into this? Are we planning on sending Elmer Gantry out fight preacher with preacher? Dangerous territory. Especially these days.

OK, the Ori didn't know about our galaxy? Huh? They're Ascended. On a higher plane of existence with all the knowledge of the universe at their fingertips--and they didn't know about our galaxy? Funny. They knew all about it *before* they Ascended. Heck, they lived here! And had alliances with the Asgard, Nox and Furlings. Another case of, "Gee, how dumb you get when you're dead." Ascended Alzheimer's. TPTB had to come up with a reason why the Ori haven't raised their banner before this, but this is ridiculous, and a sign of the problem of doing two shows at once. Neither gets really well thought out. Atlantis still has huge holes. TPTB should have taken a year off, thought this through and started a second spinoff.

And what the heck was that nonsense that Daniel was spouting at the end? I must have missed all the times in the last eight years that Daniel--or any of the others--gave the impression that they weren't worried about the Goa'uld or the Replicators, not really, because deep down inside they knew that they were being protected. GMAB. Not only does this come across as another instance of trying to diminish the last eight years because only *now* is the show in gear and *now* we're meeting really Big Bads, but it also has no support in the earlier series.

And protected by whom? The implication is the Ascended, but these are the same guys who said they would never help anybody and who would have stood aside and allowed one of their own--Nuby--to wipe out all life in the galaxy (including their former allies) and maybe even the universe, while he was protected from the effects of the device by his Ascended nature.

The way that TPTB keep trying to get around it--they won't interfere if they aren't using their powers--gets harder and harder to apply to the circumstances. Nuby could only do what he was going to do because he was immune; if he were only "human" (so to speak), he could never have done it. He was thus using his powers to escape the consequences of his actions, and that should have required the Others to take action. However, since not *one* character in the show, including Daniel, mentioned this, I have to assume that TPTB never realized the flaw in their reasoning.

Same thing applies here: the Ori are giving some of their powers to ordinary mortals to make them superhuman advocates for the Ori. That *is* using their powers to tilt the balance, and it should require the Others to take action. At the very least, the Others should restore the balance by creating opposing numbers to the Priors and doci. At the very most, the Ori are clearly using their abilities to affect and control these "lower" planes, and that should require opposing action by the Ascended. Once again, no one addresses this--they just spout the company line--which again suggests that TPTB haven't considered it at all.

Because if you buy the rule as it stands, then it's nothing more than an excuse for the Ascended to *never* do anything. If the actions by Nuby and the Ori that we've learned of don't count, then basically it's the equivalent of the Others saying that "The only thing that will count is if the Ori themselves descend en masse on a world--which means we'll never have to do anything because we know they'll never take that chance themselves." That's like saying, "If you try to shoot someone with that gun, I'll stop you. But if you hand to someone else and tell them to do the shooting, heck, who cares? I have no responsibility anymore."

So much for Daniel's suddenly new-found feeling that in the past he felt protected!

BTW, that whole scene with Daniel and Jack felt like a total disconnect. They didn't even seem to be in the same room! I can't believe they bothered to have RDA in it for that (or to advertise it. False advertising there, guys.) At least, in the scene with Mitchell, he seemed to be interested to some extent. (Interesting, though, that he didn't feel any need to come running out to the base while Daniel was in a coma. )

jree
August 1st, 2005, 01:14 PM
This might have been brought up but this is my thought

They have their hands full I'm guessing that they're hiding Pegasus from the Ori as well. Daniel and Vala gave away our galaxy but now they still have to keep Pegasus shielded.
why would they hide us and not them? If they didn't they might be now. To keep them from finding out about a third galaxy full of humans.


Maybe the ancients were trying to shield this galaxy, but Daniel messed that up by using the device, like he said he has free will and he chose to use the device so the ancients had to respect that.

On the other hand Oma Desala kept on ascending Daniel maybe she knew that Daniel would find the device. Thus it was a way for Oma to protect the galaxy from the Ori. If Daniel stayed ascended, then he would never have met Vala. Thus Vala and Daniel would never have initiated a chain of events that resulted in the Ori knowing about the Milky Way.

The2ndQuest
August 1st, 2005, 02:40 PM
>>OK, the Ori didn't know about our galaxy? Huh? They're Ascended. On a higher plane of existence with all the knowledge of the universe at their fingertips--and they didn't know about our galaxy? Funny. They knew all about it *before* they Ascended. Heck, they lived here!<<

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the prior two episodes explained that the Ancients/Alterans came from the "Ori galaxy" after they split away from the Ori on apparently philosophical issues and it was the Alterans who seeded life in the Milky Way and formed the alliance with the Asgard, Nox and Furlings.

SirGalahad
August 1st, 2005, 03:15 PM
All in all it wasn't a bad episode, but it was far from the best.

As a 3 part story arc, it was pretty good. However, I do have a few issues.

Origin seemed a little rushed. They really didn't need to do the Gerak story line. The whole Jaffa rebellion would have better been addressed in a separate episode.

Additionally, the Prior coming to SGC and Milky Way immediately could have been left to a later episode as well. Starting off another episode with perhaps a half-dozen Priors walking into a Stargate would have made for the beginnings of a really good episode.

Seemed to me like the whole Ori/Daniel thing should have been more than enough to fill the whole episode.

As for the Ori, they make good potential villains, however at this point I just don't feel that invested in them. Yes, they are potentially very evil, and make intriguing villains, but I just don't feel that we've seen enough about them to really feel how deep that evil can be.

For example, it would have been alot more interesting if they'd burned Pharus along with Daniel and Vala. The death by Darth Vader force powers was a little anti-climactic. A scene of torture mixed with sympathy and pity from the Prior prior to burning would have been a bit more disturbing and probably would have been more emotionally meaningful.

Similarly, I really didn't like the Mitchell tossing the communication device into the Stargate as a way of getting them back. It just seemed a little contrived. How much better would it have been for plot development if Daniel and Vala had burned to death, but upon their death they had been returned to their bodies? The emotional impact of Daniel/Vala burning, then physically dying at the SGC, then reviving would have resulted in a much more disturbing and dramatic character development. Not to mention the potential plot device the communication device could serve in the future. Though the concept of Daniel burning to death is unpleasant, it would have definitely put Daniel in a far more interesting place emotionally, as well as given more impetus to that sense of fear/trauma.

Finally, I really would have liked it had the Ori had talked about sending ships/missionaries while Daniel was still in their presence. Gods don't need to plot secretly. I can imagine it going something like this...

DJ: You can kill me, but I don't care what you say. I won't change what I believe.
Doci: Thank you Daniel Jackson, for you have shown us how great is the need to free your people.
DJ: I... I'm not sure I understand.
Doci to Prior: Gather the faithful. We shall build ships and send missionaries to cleanse the Evil and show the unfaithful the true path. Soon they shall all know the path of true enlightenment. And those who do not follow the path, shall be destroyed.
Prior : Hallow are the Orii.
Doci: We are done with him. Remove him from our sight.

I personally see no reason why they shouldn't be laying the guilt on Daniel extra thick. I would really liked to have seen Daniel in more a sense of despair.

Perhaps talking with Vala in the infirmary, wondering what happened to their hosts. Then, maybe ending with them in the briefing room and mumbling something like, "Maybe they're not Gods, but their powers are real. They're coming General Landry. They're coming..."

This could have made for an excellent season arc, with the focus being on trying to co-ordinate allies/etc. in preparation for the coming of the Orii.

Who knows, they may be able to salvage it still. :D

SirGalahad

Daniel359
August 1st, 2005, 04:30 PM
Did anyone notice the blooper in Origin? Toward the end, Daniel and Vala were talking in their house. Vala was standing in front of the mirror seeing the woman she was possessing. As they were talking, Daniel passed behind her, and in the mirror you see Daniel Jackson, not the person he was possessing! If you have the epi taped, watch it again and you will see it.

LMichelle
August 1st, 2005, 04:42 PM
Okay, I've seen it a couple times, so I can sufficiently nitpick now. :p

I didn't like this as much as the previous two eps. I expected more Daniel/Vala scenes.

I love the little anecdotes from Mitchell's past about hsi grandmother. I know Ben's from the south and as a Southerner it pleased me to here him say reckon. Anymore southern speak from him and I'm in danger of melting into a fangirl puddle. :)

It's a good thing the writers didn't hit us over the head with religious overtones. Oh, wait, they did. ;)

"Hallowed are the Ori." I am *so* over that phrase.

The scene between Daniel and Jack seemed forced. Like TPTB had to put Jack back in there to appease us. C'mon, we deserve better than that.

Other than that, I'm enjoying the Cameron, Daniel and Vala show. :D

Tok'Ra Hostess
August 1st, 2005, 06:20 PM
Wow, what a brave new world our writers have chosen to show us.... :cool:

My husband and I were somewhat flabergasted and pleased to see a story that looked like the European invasion by Catholic missionaries and soldiers into North and South America with a little Spanish inquisition thrown in for good measure.

Also, General Landry and Mitchel discussing the snake-oil salemen... er... religious missionaries that wanted to fill the void left by the Goa'uld reminded me of the huge influx of religions into Russia when Communism fell.

Sure I know that a serious study of world history could put just about any long-standing religion as the Ori/Priors but I am better aquainted with Catholic history, and if the same can be said for other religions, then, well... isn't that interesting.....

Anyways, kudos to TPTB for having the balls to do this. :)

Landry never looked more like the right man at the right place than in Origin. I like his attitude. He's gonna be okay - not that I doubted he wouldn't be. There is a wonderful flavor he brings to his role with his historic quotes. He kinda reminds me of Captain Sheridan from B5 in this respect. He's a guy who gets history, who is intent on using the invaluable insights and experiences of his forebears.

Val was a pleasure to watch, this time. She was smart, rather than merely smat-mouthed. She contributed in a meaningful way(but I'll have to watch a second time to be more specific....)

Mitchel is a smart guy, in the same way that Jack is; Jack would have done the same thing with the Ancient communication console, I think. But that's a good thing(even if it shows that the same writers who gave Jack the smart moves are also writing Mitchel ;) ).

Daniel was absolutely terrific, throughout the ep,but especially when confronted with the Doci. He kept his cool and reasoned so well under the most extreme pressure, especially when he knew what was at stake, that a Prior was already on Earth, and that his words might damn "us all." But he was right to say them. When Daniel told Jack that he was really afraid this time, I felt that. I could really empathize.

And how terrible, that the people he and Vala had "borrowed" were burned up! :eek: That was very powerful.

Origin is SF at it's finest, IMO.

the fifth man
August 1st, 2005, 07:26 PM
What a great post. Nice to see quite a few people who feel as positive as I do about the future of this season.

KrazyKiko
August 2nd, 2005, 04:48 AM
I loved the Origion episode - the end scene with the Doci talking about their plans of galactic domination crushes any of the sames desires those serpent snakes Goa'uld (IMO, only) dreamed up. I got a feeling of awe and uneasiness when watching the tactics and history of this new enemy unfold. The future of Season 9 should be good if this new enemy is done right.

The only thing I wish would be explained, and maybe I missed it, was how did the Prior obtain the gate address to our galaxy specifically? We understand Daniel and Vala made the Ori aware of our galaxy, but I don't remember them undergoing any interrogation to divulge the gate addresses of that - or any - world.

Or are we expected to believe that once the Ori learned of the Milky Way, they automatically knew the gate address to the planet? I supposed that would support the "Hallowed are the Ori" argument. haha.

- Jay

keshou
August 2nd, 2005, 05:08 AM
Wow, what a brave new world our writers have chosen to show us.... :cool:

*snip a bunch of cool stuff*

Origin is SF at it's finest, IMO.
I'll have what she's having. ** :p :D

I'm going to go watch the next episode at Gracie's house. :)


**note the clever tie-in to the famous scene in "When Harry Met Sally" and Harris and Sallis*

Tok'Ra Hostess
August 2nd, 2005, 05:15 AM
I'll have what she's having. ** :p :D

I'm going to go watch the next episode at Gracie's house. :)


**note the clever tie-in to the famous scene in "When Harry Met Sally" and Harris and Sallis*

Yes! Yes! Yes! Oh, YES! I did notice that.... :p :p :p

Meredith
August 2nd, 2005, 05:16 AM
The scene between Daniel and Jack seemed forced. Like TPTB had to put Jack back in there to appease us. C'mon, we deserve better than that.



at first I thought this scene was done on a computer, and they wasn't really together there - it looked... strange :S

Piratejenna
August 2nd, 2005, 07:29 AM
I finally get to join the party, having managed to watch Origin a few times. This is certainly one of those episodes which you need to watch more than once.

I don't think Origin had the emotional power of Avalon 2, but it was crammed full of ideas, and made a reasonably satisfying conclusion to the trilogy. As a story, its a bit of a mess - too much going on, and structurally not great. Where Avalon 2 started as gentle comedy and then accelerated towards a very clear and powerful climax, Origin lacks dramatic shape (sorry, that's a really pretentious way to put it, but it's hard to express without writing a thesis!). The high point SHOULD be Daniel's confrontation with the Ori. That's the critical turning point of the whole story. It should be tense and increasingly chilling as the Ori reveal themselves to Daniel and Daniel starts to realise the magnitude of the problem. But there's something wrong with it. I don't think the staging works - very static, the close-up angle on Julian Sands face is wrong (the costume is designed to be symetrical from head-on, and it just annoyed me that the camera was slightly off. These things bug me!). I've watched the scene several times now and I keep thinking 'Where's the Steadycam Operator when you need him?' Definitely not convinced by the directing/editing in this episode, so the clear weaknesses in the Daniel/Jack scene don't particularly surprise me. The burning of Daniel and Vala also felt off compared with Avalon 2, although I think the problem there was that Vala's first burning was SO well done and harrowing that there was no way it could be topped.

The only character to slightly annoy me in this episode was Mitchell - I agree with everyone who suggested that they are still trying to figure out who he is but I find it a bit ominous that BB automatically turns on what he believes to be his Good Ole Southern Boy Charm when he's pushing his characterization. I keep wanting someone to smack him round the head and tell him 'That's not charming, it's obnoxiously cocky!'

Where Origin scores is as the conclusion of a trilogy which has opened up the Stargate universe. The Stargate of the Goa'uld system lords was a kind of Feudal galaxy - simplistic, everyone knew their place in life, where the conflict was the oppressed rising up against their oppressors. Season 9 has a much bigger and more complex universe to play in. Feudalism has fallen, and what is emerging is something more like medieval Europe moving into the Renaissance: the rise of the nation states, expansion of alternative worldviews both religious and secular, and a galactic economy of colonies and free traders. This sense of a living, dynamic universe is something Babylon 5 did exceptionally well, but I've never really felt it much in Stargate, until now.

The big question mark, for me, is whether the writers will be allowed to develop their expanding universe in depth. There's a strand in Stargate fandom which seems incredibly impatient and wants everything handed to them NOW, this episode, and if it hasn't all been explained by the end of 42 minutes its 'bad writing'. That kind of attitude doesn't really lend itself to complex, intertwining storylines on an epic scale, and it certainly doesn't lend itself to subtle character development. The writers will have to tread a path between the expositionary approach (Tell them what's going to happen, then tell them what's happening, and then summarise at the end for those who didn't get it) and the more sophisticated approach that many sci-fi viewers now expect and appreciate as a result of shows like B5, Farscape and BSG. I think TPTB can succeed, because one of the things SG-1 has always been best at (certainly better than either farscape or BSG) is keeping characters in focus and making sure that the story is always about the people we care about.

Steve-C
August 2nd, 2005, 09:24 AM
at first I thought this scene was done on a computer, and they wasn't really together there - it looked... strange :S

Hi all, first post in the general forums....so be nice! :)

I must agree with Mereith, I watched that bit a couple of times, and it struck me as almost a computer generated O'Neill too. The scenes seemed very forced, and almost as if RDA was playing a different character.

Whilst it was nice to get a send off from O'Neil, it just didn't have the same feeling as any other episode. Not one scene I'll be rewatching unlike say "It's a blast door" in Reckoning, or the "We're under new management" scene in Full Alert.... :(

Still SG-1 looks like it could continue as a great show...I think the trilogy has shown there can be good interaction between Mitchell and Teal'C/Daniel. It will be interesting to see how he works with Sam.

Steve

Droops
August 2nd, 2005, 10:25 AM
Overall, I was entertained. I thought that leaving the Jaffa meeting up in the air like that after the Prior disappeared, and not getting their reactions or saying goodbye, was a plot problem. I also thought the scene with RDA was a bit of a 'pass the baton' scene that could have been cut down in order to resolve the above-referenced dangling plot thread.

Otherwise, fine episode. Vala was very impressive, and it's always fun to watch Daniel try to talk and understand what's going on.

I thought that the SGA episode that evening was a bit better, but I'm not disappointed by this one.

DarkQuee1
August 2nd, 2005, 11:06 AM
>>OK, the Ori didn't know about our galaxy? Huh? They're Ascended. On a higher plane of existence with all the knowledge of the universe at their fingertips--and they didn't know about our galaxy? Funny. They knew all about it *before* they Ascended. Heck, they lived here!<<

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the prior two episodes explained that the Ancients/Alterans came from the "Ori galaxy" after they split away from the Ori on apparently philosophical issues and it was the Alterans who seeded life in the Milky Way and formed the alliance with the Asgard, Nox and Furlings.


And the Ori made no effort to find out where their beknighted, misguided and evil brethren went? GEnerally, fanatics don't let anyone truly ever walk away. Plus, they were an advanced race at that point and certainly knew about the existence of all of the galaxies in the local group and others beyond that. We know about them, and we are hardly at the Ori level of technology or advancement. But they didn't know our galaxy was here? And if they didn't know it earlier, they certainly should have known it once they ascended. If nothing else, they certainly should have been aware of the existence of the Others and "where" they were--and what playground they were playing in.

Who were the "Ancients" in the Pegasus galaxy? Seemed like they were the ones that came to our galaxy and from there to Pegasus--and this was before they learned to Ascend. In fact, SGA told us that the Ancients were studying ascension while on Atlantis; they didn't seem to have the knack as yet. No indication that they were studying it before that (which is well over 5 million years ago, since Atlantis left Earth 5 million years ago). If we buy the split you mention, then the Ori were not ascended at that time either, since it would have been impossible for non-Ascended to have "split" from Ascended. In fact, that ep of SGA implies that it was the creature trapped in the city that gave the Ancients the idea to ascend, ie, to become beings of energy. The Ori weren't anywhere around to get the same idea. Are we to assume that both groups discovered ascension independently? Not totally impossible, but not highly likely, especially without the same impetus as the creature found in the Pegasus galaxy. (And we were also given the impression that the Ancients did not ascend until they returned to Earth. Certainly, Ascended beings would not have been defeated by the Wraith.)

ARe we also to assume that the Ori are also ignorant of the Pegasus galaxy? This really makes no sense in light of the Ori fanaticism or knowledge (If nothing else, they would still be trying to make their kindred see the light). Yet, they appear to have ignored the Pegasus galaxy as well. (It would be interesting to see them show up in Pegasus. I presume they wouldn't look kindly on the Wraith eating their prospective subjects.)

The problem is that TPTB are increasingly over the last two years not thinking ideas through all the way, to plug the holes. We can fanwank it, but I've reached the point (and this is not limited to Stargate) where I refuse to fanwank big plot holes for the writers. That's their job.

GhostPoet
August 2nd, 2005, 11:28 AM
And the Ori made no effort to find out where their beknighted, misguided and evil brethren went? GEnerally, fanatics don't let anyone truly ever walk away. Plus, they were an advanced race at that point and certainly knew about the existence of all of the galaxies in the local group and others beyond that. We know about them, and we are hardly at the Ori level of technology or advancement. But they didn't know our galaxy was here? And if they didn't know it earlier, they certainly should have known it once they ascended. If nothing else, they certainly should have been aware of the existence of the Others and "where" they were--and what playground they were playing in.

Who were the "Ancients" in the Pegasus galaxy? Seemed like they were the ones that came to our galaxy and from there to Pegasus--and this was before they learned to Ascend. In fact, SGA told us that the Ancients were studying ascension while on Atlantis; they didn't seem to have the knack as yet. No indication that they were studying it before that (which is well over 5 million years ago, since Atlantis left Earth 5 million years ago). If we buy the split you mention, then the Ori were not ascended at that time either, since it would have been impossible for non-Ascended to have "split" from Ascended. In fact, that ep of SGA implies that it was the creature trapped in the city that gave the Ancients the idea to ascend, ie, to become beings of energy. The Ori weren't anywhere around to get the same idea. Are we to assume that both groups discovered ascension independently? Not totally impossible, but not highly likely, especially without the same impetus as the creature found in the Pegasus galaxy. (And we were also given the impression that the Ancients did not ascend until they returned to Earth. Certainly, Ascended beings would not have been defeated by the Wraith.)

ARe we also to assume that the Ori are also ignorant of the Pegasus galaxy? This really makes no sense in light of the Ori fanaticism or knowledge (If nothing else, they would still be trying to make their kindred see the light). Yet, they appear to have ignored the Pegasus galaxy as well. (It would be interesting to see them show up in Pegasus. I presume they wouldn't look kindly on the Wraith eating their prospective subjects.)

The problem is that TPTB are increasingly over the last two years not thinking ideas through all the way, to plug the holes. We can fanwank it, but I've reached the point (and this is not limited to Stargate) where I refuse to fanwank big plot holes for the writers. That's their job.


They already explained in the episode why the Orii didn't know about Earth. The Ancients were protecting earth..keeping it invisible to the Orii's vision. The Orii were not ignorant...they just couldn't see it.

As for who accended first (or at the same time) That's a speculation that is way too wide to guess on. They could have found the research after the people on atlantis discovered it..they would have thought it up themselves...there are countless speculations for it. I'm guessing the ancients ascended first...

QuiGonJohn
August 2nd, 2005, 11:48 AM
Who were the "Ancients" in the Pegasus galaxy? Seemed like they were the ones that came to our galaxy and from there to Pegasus--and this was before they learned to Ascend. In fact, SGA told us that the Ancients were studying ascension while on Atlantis; they didn't seem to have the knack as yet. No indication that they were studying it before that (which is well over 5 million years ago, since Atlantis left Earth 5 million years ago). If we buy the split you mention, then the Ori were not ascended at that time either, since it would have been impossible for non-Ascended to have "split" from Ascended. In fact, that ep of SGA implies that it was the creature trapped in the city that gave the Ancients the idea to ascend, ie, to become beings of energy. The Ori weren't anywhere around to get the same idea. Are we to assume that both groups discovered ascension independently? Not totally impossible, but not highly likely, especially without the same impetus as the creature found in the Pegasus galaxy. (And we were also given the impression that the Ancients did not ascend until they returned to Earth. Certainly, Ascended beings would not have been defeated by the Wraith.)

Which episode of SGA?

Steve_the_Wraith
August 2nd, 2005, 12:58 PM
Which episode of SGA?

"Hide and Seek", where an energy based creature was being studied by the Lantians

But alot of people jump to conclusions about ascension after seeing that episode - thinking Ascension was studied and artifical

In "Full Circle" Daniel found a tablet clearly stating that some ancients ascended during the plague that wiped out life in the MW. It seems that once they got the Pegasus some Lantians were naturally interested in how ascension worked and studied energy based creatures, wheter this research lead anywhere was never stated

greytop
August 2nd, 2005, 05:19 PM
I thought the show was better than Avalon, Pt. 2, and about the same as Pt. 1.

I have a question after watching it a few time. Where are the children in the village?

DarkQuee1
August 2nd, 2005, 07:13 PM
They already explained in the episode why the Orii didn't know about Earth. The Ancients were protecting earth..keeping it invisible to the Orii's vision. The Orii were not ignorant...they just couldn't see it.

As for who accended first (or at the same time) That's a speculation that is way too wide to guess on. They could have found the research after the people on atlantis discovered it..they would have thought it up themselves...there are countless speculations for it. I'm guessing the ancients ascended first...


How come they didn't know about the existence of the galaxy *before* the split? They were already equipped with intergalactic travel, or the Ancients couldn't have reached here. *We* can already map the universe for millions of light years. So, after they Ascended, did they just think the galaxy disappeared? And wouldn't make them suspicious?

Which still begs the question of why they didn't, in all the millions of years after the split but before ascension, ever try to discover where the unconverted group went--fanatics wouldn't be happy knowing the Ancients were out there and unconverted. Especially as the Ancients would be their equals and thus capable of opposing them if they chose to do so.

And how did they find the research on Atlantis? Apparently, they didn't *know* about Atlantis. Or the Pegasus galaxy. Has that one been "protected" as well? Because if they'd known, they would have been there, converting all the humans. And probably wiping out the Wraith.

Tok'Ra Hostess
August 2nd, 2005, 07:43 PM
How come they didn't know about the existence of the galaxy *before* the split? They were already equipped with intergalactic travel, or the Ancients couldn't have reached here. *We* can already map the universe for millions of light years. So, after they Ascended, did they just think the galaxy disappeared? And wouldn't make them suspicious?

Good observation. My theory is that they didn't so much hide certain galaxies as create a blind spot for the Ori. Think Jedi mind trick; "These are not the galaxies you are looking for." :D


Which still begs the question of why they didn't, in all the millions of years after the split but before ascension, ever try to discover where the unconverted group went--fanatics wouldn't be happy knowing the Ancients were out there and unconverted. Especially as the Ancients would be their equals and thus capable of opposing them if they chose to do so.


My theory on this is that there had at one time been a war between these two groups. Who knows, maybe the effects of their war is what wiped out life in some galaxies, including the MW - that plague thing the Ancient talked about. The spanish flu was caused because of WW1(and it killed more people than the war did).

Just because both the Ancients and the Ori are ascended doesn't mean they have the same technologies and resources. Maybe the Ori are more powerful in different areas than the Ascended are, although we saw that the Ori are not all-seeing. And maybe this explains, in part, why the Ascended don't interfere with lower-plane creatures; doing so might give away their position to the Ori.

I hope your questions are addressed in this and subsequent seasons. :)

gone_fishin'
August 3rd, 2005, 05:53 AM
To play RDA advocate here.

Not surprised he looks totally knackered -- he went straight from the anti-seal cull demonstrations and a massive amount of quite viscious media attention (not to mention a recovering ankle in damn cold conditions) to filming these scenes in Vancouver.

Also, considering CJ's (and to a lesser extent MS') comments on S9, which seem rather thinly veiled comments about how things are so much better without RDA (and let's forget that they both seem to have forgotten that AT is a permanent cast member from the content of recent interviews), would you really expect him to be that happy to be there?

Not to mention the lack of any real good send of scenes for the character of Jack O'Neill.
Let's hope that they can get him back for at least one scene with AT -- ship or no ship, IMO their best work has been with each other over S7 & S8 (whereas before this much work with MS was probably the best). They certainly seem to get on a lot better, and as RDA has said frequently, he has no interest on working on something that's no fun -- LTS.

ShimmeringStar
August 3rd, 2005, 07:50 AM
It’s good to play ‘angel’s advocate’ gone fishin’, to give the thread a more well-rounded point of view. My earlier rant aside in this thread aside, I agree there were a multitude of reasons, most of which we’ll never know, for RDA’s lackluster performance.

But I guess I’m looking at it from a casual not-on-line fan’s point of view (because most of us who lurk or post around here knew S8 was basically it for RDA’s involvement). SciFi’s advertising not only targeted the new team, but it prominently displayed Jack. That casual viewer could easily assume they were going to see Jack utilized somewhere in the show and see some witty repartee between the characters, based on the SG1 reruns that SciFi runs in very heavy rotation. A really quick clip earlier probably made them scratch their head, but the ads still promoted Jack showing up for Origin. And then came the Jack/Dan and Jack/Cam scenes in this ep and none of it contributed to the plot. If I wondered “That’s it?” and wondered what the heck went on behind the scenes instead of that scene making me think about the story, you can’t tell me a casual fan wasn’t saying the same thing and that’s not good.

I guess it’s almost like false advertising. Here watch for Jack/RDA, he’s baaaaack. And if the viewer’s assumption was that the writing would be high-caliber, the acting would be high-caliber and that if it couldn’t have been edited to make it high-caliber in post-production, then the clips wouldn’t have even been shown to bring down an otherwise okay show. And I guess that would be my focus – if it wasn’t any good even after as much post-production as they could put into it, then it should have been skipped and perhaps a guest spot could have been arranged at a later time when the actor was in better health with a better script making the character a more integral part of storyline. (But yes… I know the nature of that business… ratings game teases…) I don’t know, I guess I’d rather have not seen it, instead wanting to see more of the other story arcs they’re trying to develop, and leave Jack a happy memory, hoping if they did bring him back it would be more of a knock-my-socks off scene instead of sorrowful sigh kind of moment.

BrotherNumsey
August 3rd, 2005, 08:04 AM
Did anyone else notice when walter dialed up the gate at the end of the episode when he was locking the 7th chevron, the first 6 chevrons suddenly all changed.
It happend in a split second and since I didn't tape or download the episode, can someone confirm that I'm not crazy but the chevrons actually changed.

TheCorpulent1
August 3rd, 2005, 08:53 AM
Yeah, the chevrons definitely changed. I thought I noticed that the first time I watched it, too, but I wrote it off as my eyes playing tricks. After watching it a few more times, I found the chevrons do change. Kinda sloppy, isn't it?

BrotherNumsey
August 3rd, 2005, 09:01 AM
Yeah, the chevrons definitely changed. I thought I noticed that the first time I watched it, too, but I wrote it off as my eyes playing tricks. After watching it a few more times, I found the chevrons do change. Kinda sloppy, isn't it?

yeah, but it is a minor error, I'm just glad I'm not mistaken.

jyh
August 3rd, 2005, 11:37 AM
What a crappy episode!!! :eek: I've just gotten back from vacation and while I was able to see the show, this is the first time I've been able to get to Gateworld. I can't believe so many people apparently like this episode. I was very disappointed. Each episode so far this season has left me with more questions than answers, and NOT in a good way. I've just been very disappointed so far this season... the "Arthurian legend" thing lasted all of, what, half an episode? Then all these fabricated plotlines which seem to exist solely to take up space. It sort of seems as if the writers came up with "filler" episoes to mark time until the "real" season begins... whenever that will be. (Personally, I'm hoping that happens when Carter returns.) So instead of the Goa'uld, who say "worship me or die," we get the Orii, who say "believe in us or die." [Yawn] Let's see: trying to convince people these powerful beings are not gods? Check. Fighting against so-called omnipotent beings? Check. Been there, done that. This whole storyline is old hat... just tweaked enough to seem like something new. In any case, if future episodes continue to be as confusing and/or boring as the first ones, I'm afraid my teenaged son will lose interest and give up watching with me. (I think he's pretty close to that now.) :S

Traveler Enroute1
August 3rd, 2005, 06:24 PM
Well, finally, the Ori. False Gods, II.

But I liked the episode. The next gen SG-1 has to have a beginning, and a creepy new meglomaniacal Hellfire Club certainly got my attention. Not a drop dead original ( :p ) idea, but when dealing with the unknown universe, who can say what's not to like/hate/love/fear? I'll have faith ( :rolleyes: ) that the writers will make this particular devil worth the wait. Nice effects with that wall of Ori-fire. And yech to the possession of the Doci (nice to see Julian Sands!! Hope he hangs around). Not sure I understand these new baddies but I'll keep the...faith.

I also wondered that Daniel (not so much Vala) didn't mention the two people whom they possessed, now toasted. Daniel is usually more compassionate about the innocent. Maybe that's coming up.

And RDA. Oh, RDA. It's hard to believe that was his final appearance after 8 years. For my money, they should have waited until he had time for a well written scene that at least sent him off with a nod, a tear, a smile, ANYTHING but a "huh?" So not well done of all parties to this.

Otherwise they gave us good intel on the coming threat. Mayhap all our questions and doubts will be answered.

Just sayin'.

SierraGulf1
August 4th, 2005, 08:07 AM
I've just been very disappointed so far this season... the "Arthurian legend" thing lasted all of, what, half an episode? Then all these fabricated plotlines which seem to exist solely to take up space. It sort of seems as if the writers came up with "filler" episoes to mark time until the "real" season begins... whenever that will be. (Personally, I'm hoping that happens when Carter returns.) So instead of the Goa'uld, who say "worship me or die," we get the Orii, who say "believe in us or die." [Yawn] Let's see: trying to convince people these powerful beings are not gods? Check. Fighting against so-called omnipotent beings? Check. Been there, done that. This whole storyline is old hat... just tweaked enough to seem like something new.

Personally, I'm glad the Arthurian legend thing ended fast, as many people found it uninteresting and quite boring. Despite that, who's to say that we won't return to this?

As far as these episodes being "fillers," I can hardly agree with you that the triology of episodes that sets up a whole new different kind of Stargate SG-1 are simply "filler episodes." Filler episodes are made to save costs and generally do not move the storyline along. However, we got quite a bit of moving along: We find a device, we meet the omniscient Ori, the Ori discover our "need," the Ori prepare to attack us. It also didn't seem cheap: Burning effects, intricate costumes, etc. If you were to take out these three episodes, the rest of the season would be a confusing blur, even moreso than you claim Avalon and Origin to be.

As far as these beings seeming "so-called" omnipotent, it seems they're pretty omnipotent to me. One could argue that the staffs (though according to photos from 9.10 The Fourth Horseman, the Doci can do pretty powerful things without it) are actually technology, but regardless, the Ori are ascended and can see all that the Altearans have not hid from them. The difference between the Ori and the Goa'uld, as Vala says at the end of Origin, is that they're no longer dealing with a race of snakes posing with technology, the Ori actually believe that they are Gods, and they have an army of Priors and Doci to do their bidding.

I'm sorry you're not enjoying, but I'm going to continue to watch. I think the next two might be filler episodes, but hopefully they're enjoyable. As far as your comment about Lt. Colonel Carter, I hope things pick up even more upon her return. From the photos, looks like Beachhead and The Fourth Horseman will be excellent, though I can't judge by pictures alone.

And as for RDA's appearence, I'm going to pretend it didn't happen and hope TPTB repent by giving him another appearance. I would have rather seen Daniel thinking about Harrid, Sallis, and Fannis and their deaths.

Icebox
August 4th, 2005, 12:06 PM
I really liked this episode and the season so far. The Orii are pretty cool new bad guys, Vala is wonderful comic relief even though she'll be leaving shortly and Amanda Tapping who just had to go and have a baby will be back. It will be interesting to see where it goes from there.
I feel sorry for the people whose names I have no hope of spelling that Daniel and Vala took over. Thats one way to come back into your body, that sucks.
I liked RDA's little part, it's not the same because things arent.

TheCorpulent1
August 4th, 2005, 03:16 PM
Personally, I'm glad the Arthurian legend thing ended fast, as many people found it uninteresting and quite boring. Despite that, who's to say that we won't return to this?
I think SG-1 just feels weird without some mythological aspect to it. I wasn't all that interested in Japanese mythology, but I could appreciate Lord Yu and Amaterasu's presence because they retained that mythological aspect about the Goa'uld and SG-1 in general that I like. I find Arthurian legend pretty interesting, myself, but even if they replace the Arthurian stuff with something else, I think they should have some kind of mythological basis for the villains. It's kind of SG-1's central gimmick.

zats
August 4th, 2005, 06:29 PM
Now that I'm finally able to get around to writing this:

What was good:
a. Erm...just about everything. I don't remember having any major bones to pick at with this one, which makes for a nice change. But oh, right, my inner OCD won't let me finish this w/out specifics. So...
b. Vala. I'm liking Claudia Black's character more every week. [Pity it looks like we're losing her in 'Beachhead'. Grr.] Black has a delightful comedic side that wasn't visible in Farscape, and I'm glad we've gotten to see her being funny instead of all PMS [Peacekeeper Military Sh!t'].
c. Daniel. Generally speaking, I am not a fan of Dannyrific eps. They all seem the same to me: he goes crazy, dies, or falls in love, sometimes all at the same time. Ths one was more of 'Daniel Jackson: Archeologist and Intergalactic Explorer' than 'Daniel Jackson: Overly Sensitive Philanthropist' can do his job?]. He handled the situation with the Priors and Doci nicely. I also found his ellucidation of the fire motif in Earth religion immensely interesting. It's been a while since there's been new cultural info on the show, and I hadn't realized I'd missed it.
d. After T-man and Cameron destroyed the jar-thingy and Daniel and Vala woke up and we saw Harrid and Sallis appear in the fire...that creeped me out. Just...[wince]. That'd really suck.
e. I'm liking Lexa Doig's character--Dr. Lam. She's enough like Janet w/out being too much like her.
f. Suprisingly, I don't dislike Gerak as much as I was expecting to.
g. AT would usually be on here somewhere, but, blast it, she's still not on the show.
h. RDA. He's back! ...sort of. I'm still waiting to hear why Jack accepted the promotion in the first place, not to mention the breaking up of SG-1 [currently SG-.5]. Come on, writers, throw us a bone here...
i. The Ori. New villians! Woot! See below for related mutterings.
j. Techie stuff: sets, costumes, props, SFX, etc. Everything seemed to fit; nothing out of place.
k. Oh! Storyline! Liked the storyline! Nice to see that they've thought of the vacuum left by the demise of the goa'uld.

What wasn't good: [sorry, thought of something]
a. What [I]is it with this show and glowing eyes? I mean, really.
b. And this whole thing w/ Evil!Ancients, sorry, Ori, sort of wrecks all my hopes that the Ancients were incorruptible. I'd sort of thought of them as the best you could be, an ideal race, so to speak--a theory that seems to be holding progressively less water [thanks to 'Threads' and then this].
c. Have the Nox just fallen off the face of the...galaxy, or what? What would they be doing in response to the Ori? Would they just let them take over? We know the Nox have technology coming out their ears, but what can they do against Evil!Ancients?

...And that's it, just in time for new eps tomorrow night...

zats
August 4th, 2005, 06:34 PM
Forgot to mention, I hate the new openers. On all three shows. [seething]

:S + :eek: = zats @ 7:03

epiphany
August 4th, 2005, 11:40 PM
With regards to the Ancients hiding our galaxy--a plague wiped out everything here, that probably is all the Ori knew, it was a lifeless galaxy at that point. So why would they interested in a now lifeless galaxy? THEN the Ancients "hid it" from them and seeded it with life again. The Ori would not have had any reason to look at it anyway, knowing life had been destroyed, plus the Ancients hid it from view.

I'd imagine it was something like the old "putting a static picture in front of the security camera while we rob the joint" trick. :) I don't consider that a plot hole at all.

TheCorpulent1
August 5th, 2005, 03:59 PM
Good point. I can't believe I didn't think of that. :o Making me feel stupid always deserves some green. :)

Elite Anubis Guard
August 25th, 2005, 04:35 AM
I liked this episode(transcript again), its alot better than avalon p1 and seems to get really going. The Ori are seeming to be a really interesting enemy and valla is just so funny!

Mattathias2.0
September 6th, 2005, 11:26 AM
I really enjoyed this episode. It finally brought some answers in regards to the Ori.

It was unpleasent to see Vala & Daniel being burned to death (Vala's second time).

Daniel's_twin
September 6th, 2005, 10:12 PM
I really enjoyed this episode. It finally brought some answers in regards to the Ori.

It was unpleasent to see Vala & Daniel being burned to death (Vala's second time).

I think they wanted it to be as unpleasant as possible. :cool:

jckfan55
September 7th, 2005, 12:46 PM
I finally got to see this episode. I liked the Teal'c-Mitchell moment and the episode was generally pretty interesting. I even liked Vala in it. I had no problem with RDA's scenes. It seemed fairly typical Daniel-Jack to me. We as viewers may know RDA likely won't be back but for all Daniel & Jack know, they'll be seeing each other every few months. So I can see why there was no big "goodbye" scene as some viewers wanted. Who knows?-- maybe they will talk RDA into making a few more cameos once he's had some time off. I think it was good of RDA to show up at all.

Pharaoh Atem
September 17th, 2005, 03:28 PM
this was the best episode in the first half of the season hands down i think :D

Serebii
October 25th, 2005, 12:04 PM
Good ep, nice follow up to Avalon, really made the Ori situation look dangerous

However i too was reminded of Pah Wraiths from DS9 :p

Great Team Interactions especially Mitchell/Teal'c

Gerak seems a bit odd...he didnt seem as power hungry as he was made out to be in Avalon Part 2 though

Great ep overall...a good start to Season 9...lets just hope it continues

bcfc
October 25th, 2005, 12:16 PM
Christ the Ori were fantastic

and the character interaction seems to be better, another great episode though. I loved the ring transport and the prior going up in flames. :)