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GateWorld
April 27th, 2004, 09:20 PM
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<FONT SIZE=4 COLOR="#0066BF"><B>LEARNING CURVE</B></FONT>
<FONT SIZE=1>EPISODE NUMBER - 305</FONT>
<IMG SRC="/images/clear.gif" WIDTH=1 HEIGHT=10 ALT="">
SG-1 discovers a planet where children are used to acquire knowledge for the entire population, then discarded.

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bcmilco
May 2nd, 2004, 01:35 AM
Here's an episode that I feel gets forgotten. It's not my favorite, but I thought it was a really solid episode.

I really liked Merrin and I really liked Jack's reactions because of Merrin.

IMO it was a really good character piece for Jack.

Plus this is where all the naquidah reactors originated. :)

I'm a little disapointed that we've never revisited Orban to see how the people are doing, and how much more they have advanced. Espcially considering they are our allies. :(

Major Clanger
May 2nd, 2004, 01:57 AM
Each time I see this ep I like it a little more. I like the ending, it's sort of bittersweet.

But the outfits the kids wear make me thing they're about to start a fencing competition.

bcmilco
May 2nd, 2004, 09:14 AM
I hadn't thought of that... but I can see it now that you mention it. :)

Dani347
May 2nd, 2004, 10:07 AM
I liked this episode, too. A good episode for Jack. Some of the best ones are when he interacts with kids (the one with Charlie, the Reetou kid is another). The only thing I didn't like was how he insisted that Merrin draw a flower. I mean, I know he was trying to show her how to have fun, and how not to be so concerned with getting it "right" but it still seemed that he was inforcing his ideas on her. But, other than that, I really enjoyed it.

Sparki101
May 3rd, 2004, 07:38 AM
I think what Jack was trying to do was make Merrim think for herself and use her imagination, instead of relying on her super intelligence and her common sense.
I wish Jack wouldn't have got away with it. He needed a reprimand not a pat on the head.

aAnubiSs
May 3rd, 2004, 10:04 AM
I think what Jack was trying to do was make Merrim think for herself and use her imagination, instead of relying on her super intelligence and her common sense.
I wish Jack wouldn't have got away with it. He needed a reprimand not a pat on the head.


He got away way too easy.

jenniferhailey
May 3rd, 2004, 10:09 AM
Brittney Irvin is a wonderful actress. She's just incredible! (She is also a singer, and a very good one at that.) Hard to believe she's 18 now, isn't it? :)

bcmilco
May 3rd, 2004, 10:32 AM
He needed a reprimand not a pat on the head.

He had an official reprimand for that on his record in Shades of Grey IIRC.

stargate barbie
June 20th, 2004, 03:54 PM
goood episode. can't believe most of the stuff the air force advisors let sg-1, hammond and jack in particular away with. but hey, its just a tv show. i keep trying to remind myself of that.

great character interaction in this one. some great lines. plus we get the naquadah reactor. yay. and we see that sam isn't completely super sam, when she has some minor trouble understanding the exact workings of the reactor at first. i never got that whole super sam thing myself though.

still though. i liked this one a lot.

Liebestraume
June 22nd, 2004, 08:51 PM
The only thing I didn't like was how he insisted that Merrin draw a flower. I mean, I know he was trying to show her how to have fun, and how not to be so concerned with getting it "right" but it still seemed that he was inforcing his ideas on her.
I never looked at it this way before, but you are absolutely right. :)

Anubis
June 22nd, 2004, 11:18 PM
I think Jack was good in this episode by helping her learn at her own pace without guidance!

Selmak
July 10th, 2004, 07:45 PM
I remember crayons.

DF2506
July 12th, 2004, 09:16 PM
I just saw this episode tonight for the very first time (during the Stargate Monday maratheon) and I thought it was a very good episode!!

Out of the episodes I've seen so far (which really isn't many), Learning Curve is definitly one of my current favorites.

I like the concept of the episode. Its really smart and it makes you think. The idea doesn't talk down to the audience.

And in the episode you can see both the SG-1's pov and the pov of the people on the planet.

Best of all though, imo, was that ENDING! Wow.

It was a very happy ending, but also a little sad too.

Really the prefect ending for the episode!

I hope that I will get to see the episode again sooner or later!

DF2506

Anubis
July 12th, 2004, 11:19 PM
The ending was good. I've never seen O'Neill so firthcoming with others. Shame Charlie isn't around..

wilhelmganon
July 13th, 2004, 07:26 AM
"Learning Curve" is a GREAT example of why Stargate really isn't just another Star Trek. Jack clearly doesn't mind inducing the "Tau'ri/American" way upon Merrin - nuts to any Prime Directive!

Aside from that, the SGC gets its first naquadah reactor up and running, and I love the scene where Merrin, in the elementary school, busts out a half-drawn schematic of the reactor. O'Neill's "uhhh, let's put that away" look is quite priceless.

DF2506
July 13th, 2004, 09:49 AM
wilhelmganon>

< "Learning Curve" is a GREAT example of why Stargate really isn't just another Star Trek. Jack clearly doesn't mind inducing the "Tau'ri/American" way upon Merrin - nuts to any Prime Directive!<

Well...to be fair...Kirk didn't much care about the Prime directive either..and I think Picard and Sisko has broken it a few times...

But..I do agree that Jack is very anti-Trek. He's a really good character, imo.

I really like how Jack was in Learning Curve. He's interaction with the girl were very good (aside: the girl was pretty good in the episode too).

Plot-wise, this was smarter then a Trek episode. Alot smarter. I really thought the concept was very interesting. Basically, having kids learn stuff and then taking the knowledge out their head and sharing it was the rest of the community. Amazing.

I can see both point of views. Of course, I agree with Jack.

Liked the ending though. O'Neil really changed things with that planet, for the better, by just showing the girl how to have fun. :)

<Aside from that, the SGC gets its first naquadah reactor up and running, and I love the scene where Merrin, in the elementary school, busts out a half-drawn schematic of the reactor. O'Neill's "uhhh, let's put that away" look is quite priceless. <

Ya, that was a good moment. He really grabed that quickly! hehe.

I liked the kids drawining of flowers. Nice picture.

VERY good episode, imo. Enjoyed it.

DF2506

Selmak
July 15th, 2004, 05:46 PM
Love naquida generators... They are used very effectively in other episodes as well.

SeaBee
July 20th, 2004, 03:10 PM
I've never liked this ep, for personal reasons. The kids were good though.

Selmak
July 26th, 2004, 06:00 PM
The human Naquida generators look nothing like the ones from that culture.

blingaway
October 11th, 2004, 09:40 AM
I just watched Learning Curve again today, and got to wondering about the future societal implications.

Any decent culture cares for their members who are impaired in some way, through congential defects or by trauma, and decent people harbor no predjudice for those who cannot learn. The people of Orban take pride in how well they care for their ex-super-learners, and I can see how with the nanite learning process they use that it just may not have occured to them to try to teach the children.

With teaching, the ex-uron children will be able to participate in the society again but they will be fundamentally different from the majority population who rely on nanites. Will they be allowed to pursue the subjects they once had mastered, or will it be considered redundant and pointless, even if it interests the child?

Will they have equal access to resources to develop traditional schools for learning? Will the Orban nanite people try to take an "equal but separate" approach to the ex-uron people? The nanite-less people will be a small minority, and the Orbanian people seems focused on quick advancement. It would take an awfully compassionate set of leaders to try to keep the ex-urons fully integrated into the life and societal structure on Orban and not just consider them baggage.

LMichelle
October 26th, 2004, 03:25 PM
It seems to me he did a quick turn around of how to "teach" the children.

Jack was imposing his ideas on another culture, emphasizing fun and play over constant work. That is the way American culture is, but the Orbans had no concept of it. From our standpoint, they were abusing and neglecting their children. "Well cared for" means different things to different people.

We may feel a certain idea or belief is wrong, but each society has its own set of standards and norms. Who should judge what those are?

Lisa Michelle

Daniel's_twin
November 4th, 2004, 11:39 AM
I agree that Jack shouldn't have said that they didn't deserve their children, but I'm glad he helped the Orbans realize that "all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy". (pardon the pun) But they never explained why the Goa'uld left, did they? halfway through, Daniel stopped searching and the focus was centered on Jack and the girl. Bit surprised he didn't give her a dog, too. :cool:

Jane
November 6th, 2004, 06:33 AM
I love the relationship between Merin and Jack. Kids just seem to like him so much. :D

Daniel's_twin
November 6th, 2004, 03:42 PM
Well, that's 'cause he's like a kid himself. And he's fun. And he's like a kid (did I already say that?) :cool:

Naquida Guy
December 12th, 2004, 09:39 PM
"We may feel a certain idea or belief is wrong, but each society has its own set of standards and norms. Who should judge what those are? "

Really, I think that sums up Jack O'Neill though. Jack has a very black and white view of the world, and he's very consistant in his expression of it. When he orders Carter to blow up the Naquida generator in Scorched Earth, or when he passes judgment upon another civlization in Beneath the Surface. Heck, when he orders the Iris closed in The Other Side (and you can see Sam doesn't like that decision). Things are always right or wrong with Jack, and if he feels strongly enough about something, he doesn't much care what his superiors (or anyone else) think of it.

I did think this was a really great Jack episode; it really gives you the 'softer side of Jack' which often dissapears under his military personality.

SmartFox
March 11th, 2005, 06:26 PM
One thing i hated about this ep is how Jack and the rest of SG-1 tried to force their ideas and believes on to the Orbans. Just because we believe our way is right does not neccesarily mean it is. Of course this does accuratly project the American society and our believes. Which is probably why i didn't like this ep as much.
Glad i get to see how we got our naquadah reactors though.

RubyRed
March 22nd, 2005, 10:50 PM
I like what jack did. I know the orbans think their ways are right but i just can't stop thinking that is so wrong. They used their children and make them work like maniacs and then when they have to give up their knowledge they are like vegetables. they are like numb. they look like they don't feel anything have no idea what the hell is going on. is like they are born at the age of 12. i was glad that sam agree with jack even thougth she knew that they couldn't just take her. but at leas jack gave her the chance to be a kid at least for a few hours. i guess jack didn't get court marshal cause deep down General Hammond agree with him. or maybe it is that SG1 is too valuable to the SGC. I mean we have heard Hammond again and again saying SG1 is he's best team.

Celsius
March 23rd, 2005, 06:35 AM
I agree with Naquida Boy, Jack has very strong values of how he believes people should behave and is not shy in making his voice be heard, even when it really isn't his palce to dictate how a culture should or shouldn't behave.

It's basically like Western civilization's protest to female circumcision in parts of Africa; we may see it as barbaric, but it is that culture's own tradition, and the question really is, how much of a right do we have to change that?

Yes the Orlans were different, and they were basically using children as machines. Of course, Jack's intervention has beneficial consequences, but it could quite as easily have resulted in mass chaos for the Orlans (though that would have really destroyed the point of the episode).

As much as Jack may not like it, the Orlans have their own ways, and if everyone everywhere were to act exactly the same and share the same attitudes and values, then there would be no uniqueness and cultures would lose the identity they have strived to maintain for centuries.

Spiko
March 23rd, 2005, 09:41 AM
No culture is perfect. All cultures vary and that is what makes this world (hopefully there's someone else in the universe too) great.

I disagree with how SG-1 believed that they were right and the Orbanians were wrong. That made me so mad. I would have expected better at least from Daniel, even though they probly had best intentions in mind. Like Celsius and Smart Fox, I agree that it is not our place to judge.

IMO, Merrin was the wisest in this episode. She went through the Averrium. Not only did she deliver necessary scientific knowledge to her people. She delivered knowledge that made everyone's life on Orbana much happier. This is what Daniel is talking about when he says that there are other reasons for alliances than technological advancements. To exchange cultural ideas and learn from them:

Now, the Orbanians know they don't have to forget and discard the past-Orun children.

Now, hopefully, Jack and the SGC have learned to be more accepting of other cultures. And I do think this is so because when Jack saw Merrin drawing he smiled at her as if it was all ok now.

Both Cultures learned from eachother.

ApophisOfTheStargateRealm
April 9th, 2005, 03:58 PM
:eek: did not like it :eek:

QuiGonJohn
April 29th, 2005, 10:33 AM
I liked it, But it would seem more beneficial for these super-kids to teach dozens (or more) of the other Orban what they know, rather than passing on nanites.

I also wish they would have looked more into why the Goa'uld left Orban, as well as, them mentioning that the Goa'uld may have been on Earth as recently as the eighth century AD, causing the downfall of the Teotihuacan, the people from whom the Orbanians are descended.

Beatrice Otter
April 29th, 2005, 12:23 PM
I just watched Learning Curve again today, and got to wondering about the future societal implications.

Any decent culture cares for their members who are impaired in some way, through congential defects or by trauma, and decent people harbor no predjudice for those who cannot learn. The people of Orban take pride in how well they care for their ex-super-learners, and I can see how with the nanite learning process they use that it just may not have occured to them to try to teach the children.

With teaching, the ex-uron children will be able to participate in the society again but they will be fundamentally different from the majority population who rely on nanites. Will they be allowed to pursue the subjects they once had mastered, or will it be considered redundant and pointless, even if it interests the child?

Will they have equal access to resources to develop traditional schools for learning? Will the Orban nanite people try to take an "equal but separate" approach to the ex-uron people? The nanite-less people will be a small minority, and the Orbanian people seems focused on quick advancement. It would take an awfully compassionate set of leaders to try to keep the ex-urons fully integrated into the life and societal structure on Orban and not just consider them baggage.
Are they capable of learning the old-fashioned way anymore? The brain is a fragile thing, and by the time one reaches puberty the ability of the brain to recover from or compensate for severe trauma (such as removing a large portion of the cells, artificial or otherwise, that make up the brain) is not really that great. Those nanites were functioning as the neurons that stored complex data, and did so almost from birth. How much would the brain have rerouted from birth to take advantage of those artificial neurons? And how much would it have to reroute functions to deal with the sudden loss of those neurons? I'd bet that it pretty much fries the higher cognitive processes--and that's why the kids are in that institution. I mean, if they're normal intelligence, even if they can't learn the way other people do they could still live with their families, when you consider that their families are obviously proud of them and care for them. But if they're funtionally retarded, well, then it makes much more sense to institutionalize them. Notice that Merrin doesn't talk at all when Jack comes to visit her; neither does what's-his-name, the kid Daniel and Teal'c visited earlier. The kids are happier with the knowledge of how to play and finger-paint and stuff, which is all to the good--but that doesn't change what's been done to them.

Beatrice Otter
April 29th, 2005, 12:26 PM
goood episode. can't believe most of the stuff the air force advisors let sg-1, hammond and jack in particular away with. but hey, its just a tv show. i keep trying to remind myself of that.

great character interaction in this one. some great lines. plus we get the naquadah reactor. yay. and we see that sam isn't completely super sam, when she has some minor trouble understanding the exact workings of the reactor at first. i never got that whole super sam thing myself though.

still though. i liked this one a lot.
Well, I do think there would have been more severe repercussions in rl for Jack's stunt. But as to his general insobordinate nature? Season 4, "Prodigy." General Ryan, who visits at the beginning of the ep? That was really General Ryan, the head of the AF at the time. RDA asked him if there were really colonels in the USAF as cocky and mouthy as him. Ryan replied to the effect that there were many who were worse, and he was doing a fine job. ;)

Abydosian
June 1st, 2005, 12:55 AM
That was really General Ryan, the head of the AF at the time. RDA asked him if there were really colonels in the USAF as cocky and mouthy as him. Ryan replied to the effect that there were many who were worse, and he was doing a fine job.

Hmm - that's an interesting peice of information, thanks for sharing it :)

--

I thought this episode was overall interesting - it was another nice non-action episode, although it did get a little slow in places, which is my only criticism.

It was nice to see this side of Jack with his reactions to the children, and was also nice to see the school scenes outisde the SGC. It shows good depth to his character, and is interesting in relationship to what we know happened with Charlie.

Also, I enjoyed seeing a culture with different perspectives to ours in this way, and the reactions this caused. Something so different to what we are used to.

Perriman33
August 7th, 2005, 10:47 PM
I like to see episodes like this where they are visiting new planets(which is why I started watching in the first place). It's good to see how the writers and production team think how a different civilisation would be. And this was certainly different,the kids were great and it was nice to see jack in his element. Enjoyable one-off. :)

Ascendant
September 1st, 2005, 04:19 AM
Really, I think that sums up Jack O'Neill though. Jack has a very black and white view of the world, and he's very consistant in his expression of it. When he orders Carter to blow up the Naquida generator in Scorched Earth, or when he passes judgment upon another civlization in Beneath the Surface. Heck, when he orders the Iris closed in The Other Side (and you can see Sam doesn't like that decision). Things are always right or wrong with Jack, and if he feels strongly enough about something, he doesn't much care what his superiors (or anyone else) think of it.
True. Jack's something of a contradiction that way, though. I would say he's probably the most pragmatic out of the four - he seems the most willing to turn a blind eye to things that might be right for us but not for other people (hence his suicide mission to destroy the Stargate, Abydonians and all, in the movie). He's military-minded that way. On the other hand, when something rubs him the wrong way morally he won't rest until he's made it better. He can be everything from a kidnapper to a stone-cold angel of death when he feels his wrath is riteous.

Decent episode. Great concept, but zero action. Cute kid, I like her interactions with Carter. Still a little unclear as to what Jack taught Merrin by having her paint abstractly...seemed a little mean about it. But I guess he got the job done. Fun watching him with the kids.

I like his last line to Merrin, too, when they're drawing on the wall. "Do you know what a dog is? Dogs are some of my favorite people."

Stricken
September 8th, 2005, 03:05 AM
I like to see episodes like this where they are visiting new planets and no loneger going to Abydos and Chulak or staying on Earth! And this was certainly different,the kids were great and it was nice to see RDA in his element playing Jack. Enjoyable one-off.

Tezzador
September 8th, 2005, 04:33 AM
I still felt it was wrong of Jack to disturb the other race's culture. We shouldn't dictate what others should do.

walter_MacChevron
September 15th, 2005, 07:33 PM
I still felt it was wrong of Jack to disturb the other race's culture. We shouldn't dictate what others should do.


That's the only thing I did not like about this episode, pretty solid episode, IMHO.

deathbed1983
September 28th, 2005, 03:16 PM
this was another good epidsode of SG-1

timdalton007
October 7th, 2005, 07:44 AM
A good episdoe. Especially delving into Jack's character but beside that just a run-of-the-mill episode.

timdalton007

captain jake
June 2nd, 2006, 12:24 AM
What was with jack the kidnapper? very out of character I thought.

Dani347
June 3rd, 2006, 12:22 PM
I thought it was in character. He thought Merrin was in danger, he took it upon himself to save her.

My only problem was he didn't seem to want to listen to her.

captain jake
June 3rd, 2006, 12:37 PM
Well you could argue that he knew she didn't know what was good for her. But i thought the whole thing was very sketchy and weird.

Sheppard
July 19th, 2006, 09:22 PM
i would have to agree i didnt like this episode much

Svengoolie
October 8th, 2006, 07:02 PM
Am I the only one who couldn't understand a word that that Tommen kid said?

LHB
October 8th, 2006, 10:26 PM
There was one thing I found annoying about the episode: one small detail cause I'm a stickler for that sorta stuff:

--When they're in the school, and the kids are supposed to paint something that they "love," some kid is painting Jack. I mean I'm sure the kid liked Jack and thought he was fun, but love? A bit over the top; yeah, the kids like him, we get it, no need for that silly painting, in my opinion.

But...I still <3 the show so no big deal ;).

ReganX
October 16th, 2006, 05:09 PM
As much as Jack may not like it, the Orlans have their own ways, and if everyone everywhere were to act exactly the same and share the same attitudes and values, then there would be no uniqueness and cultures would lose the identity they have strived to maintain for centuries.

I would consider what the Orbanians were doing to the Uroan children to be child abuse. They were, as Jack so aptly put it, sucking their brains out.

SG-1 have interfered with other cultures before - the Jaffa, for example.

Jack saw an eleven year old child, who had spent almost all of her short life learning and who had been taught from infancy to believe that the process that would rob her of her knowledge and return her to an infant-like state was a great honour. He tried to help her and protect her as best he could.

Harlan's Speechwriter
April 24th, 2007, 01:19 PM
I've read through this thread with interest. This wasn't one of my favourite episodes, but it does raise some questions.

I would have liked to have known more about Daniel's work on the planet; it did seem to concentrate a bit too much on personal relationships/stories.

The issue of the SG team interfering in another culture is a deep one. I think the real consideration here is that they were dealing with children, who had no control over what happened to them and knew only what they were brought up to believe (plus advanced science, obviously). This can be said, I think, of children to an extent in all cultures, but its consequences can be drastically different, depending upon the culture and its beliefs.

Jack showed Merrin a different way, but she made her decision. I think that the ending showed a good compromise; the essence of the culture was still there, but there was more for the children after they had given their knowledge.

garhkal
April 27th, 2007, 11:22 AM
True, but i am surprised he did not get more of a 'repremand' for what he did..

Harlan's Speechwriter
April 27th, 2007, 12:22 PM
True, but i am surprised he did not get more of a 'repremand' for what he did..

True. But Hammond knows Jack well and knows what a good officer he really is. I guess that Hammond thought a stern word from him would be enough to stop Jack acting so impulsively again, whereas a court martial could have led to the SG programme loosing one of its finest men. After all, what Jack did was out of order and possibly stupid, but he's also made a great number of very wise judgements and is, essentially, excellent at his job.

Crichiel
February 2nd, 2008, 07:38 PM
I thought this ep was fine. But it isn't one I ever really think about or pull out on my own. I watch it when it is on Sci-Fi, say "Yeah, that was good", then forget about it again.

Teddybrown
March 27th, 2008, 11:20 AM
I didnt really like this one
Found it a bit boring
But i also missed the ending so i might have to rewatch it

HelloVelo
June 23rd, 2008, 06:38 PM
There was a lot of cute in this episode.

Rating: 7/10

Full Review: http://stargatesummer.blogspot.com/2008/06/learning-curve.html

captain jake
June 29th, 2008, 11:55 PM
The pyramid scene is really cool, however I do have a question about the Orbanians being Mayan. It is possible that their gene pool has been affected by a light skinned society. However even if that was the case you would still see slightly brown skin with dark hair and brown eyes. I hope I'm not being racist, but I'm pretty sure that all Southern American Indian tribes were dark skinned. Does anybody have any theories on how they all turned into Icelandic Europeans?


I thought this ep was fine. But it isn't one I ever really think about or pull out on my own. I watch it when it is on Sci-Fi, say "Yeah, that was good", then forget about it again.

Really? I actually think about this episode every time we use a Naquada generator. I agree I haven't watched it anymore than other episodes, but I did watch it just now for my third time and this is my third time going through the series. This isn't an episode I think about all the time, but I do think about it every once and awhile.


I didnt really like this one
Found it a bit boring
But i also missed the ending so i might have to rewatch it

Well I guess it would depend upon how much of the ending you missed. The part where they figure out exactly how the Nanites work is the best part.

plague
July 8th, 2008, 02:30 PM
ok. I agree with what was the message of the episode. However, considering the whole concept of SG-1, it seems the decisions were opinion based.

To explain, I understand why the SG-1 reacted towards how the Orbanians treated their kids. However, they had no idea why they did it the way they did. And also, their judgement is based on the lifestyle they have in Earth. So how can they make any judgements?

This is one of my major issues with the show. How they justify what is right and wrong based on what they believe to be right. And if they oppose, then SG-1 fights against it. Now if the other world people comes through stargate and tells Earth members on how they should live or behave because they (otherworld members) feel it is the right style of living, would the earth members do it? I don't think so. Even within earth we don't agree on how one person should live. Western Culture behaves differently compared to Eastern culture. Western ideas differ from Eastern ideas. For example in Western culture, when people become teenagers, they may work part time/full time and start earning their ways while in my culture (eastern), parents believe they should take care of the children until they finish their studies and find a proper job regardless of whether the parents have money. So we disagree within ourselves. How can we put rules towards other world people?

Just ranting. Share your thoughts.

ReganX
July 8th, 2008, 03:14 PM
ok. I agree with what was the message of the episode. However, considering the whole concept of SG-1, it seems the decisions were opinion based.

To explain, I understand why the SG-1 reacted towards how the Orbanians treated their kids. However, they had no idea why they did it the way they did. And also, their judgement is based on the lifestyle they have in Earth. So how can they make any judgements?

This is one of my major issues with the show. How they justify what is right and wrong based on what they believe to be right. And if they oppose, then SG-1 fights against it. Now if the other world people comes through stargate and tells Earth members on how they should live or behave because they (otherworld members) feel it is the right style of living, would the earth members do it? I don't think so.

The same argument could be made for their interfering with cultures where the Goa'uld (and later the Ori) are worshipped. These people believe them to be gods but that doesn't stop SG-1 interfering with their lifestyle.

With the Uroan children on Orban, they are selected at birth (or before, I can't remember) and at that time, a bumper dose of nanites is inserted into their brains to enable them to learn more, faster. They are not given a choice in the matter but are raised to believe that their position is an honourable one and that they are doing a great service for their people by doing the learning for them. As adolescents, they are effectively stripped of virtually everything they are, so that their knowledge will be shared among the others. They themselves do not benefit from the knowledge they gained during their 11-12 years of learning.

A comparable situation would be a culture where infants are selected at birth and marked as future hosts for Goa'uld. They are raised in a temple or something and taught to believe that being chosen was a great honour and that they will be doing an invaluable service to their people by offering themselves up as Goa'uld hosts, as it will mean that the Goa'uld are appeased and leave the rest of the population in peace. When they are taken as hosts, their consciousness is suppressed by the Goa'uld but it remains intact. Their people benefit because they're free from Goa'uld attacks and can pretty much live their lives in peace. The selected hosts obviously don't benefit from the arrangement.

Would SG-1 be justified in interfering with that culture by trying to rescue children marked as future hosts?

plague
July 8th, 2008, 03:33 PM
The same argument could be made for their interfering with cultures where the Goa'uld (and later the Ori) are worshipped. These people believe them to be gods but that doesn't stop SG-1 interfering with their lifestyle.

With the Uroan children on Orban, they are selected at birth (or before, I can't remember) and at that time, a bumper dose of nanites is inserted into their brains to enable them to learn more, faster. They are not given a choice in the matter but are raised to believe that their position is an honourable one and that they are doing a great service for their people by doing the learning for them. As adolescents, they are effectively stripped of virtually everything they are, so that their knowledge will be shared among the others. They themselves do not benefit from the knowledge they gained during their 11-12 years of learning.

A comparable situation would be a culture where infants are selected at birth and marked as future hosts for Goa'uld. They are raised in a temple or something and taught to believe that being chosen was a great honour and that they will be doing an invaluable service to their people by offering themselves up as Goa'uld hosts, as it will mean that the Goa'uld are appeased and leave the rest of the population in peace. When they are taken as hosts, their consciousness is suppressed by the Goa'uld but it remains intact. Their people benefit because they're free from Goa'uld attacks and can pretty much live their lives in peace. The selected hosts obviously don't benefit from the arrangement.

Would SG-1 be justified in interfering with that culture by trying to rescue children marked as future hosts?

Ofcourse I agree with what you say. Both of the situations are similar. However, instead of dictating the Orbanians on not to use their children as the knowledge learners, they could have taught them on how to teach the children who have given their nanites. That is how it ended in the end. So I do not disagree with how it ended. However, I question the rights SG-1 had in questioning them. For example, even in Earth we have a lot of animals/people who are being used in experiments in the name of medical science and if the patient is unable to respond consiously, the guardian gives the permission instead. I'm not saying it's the same. Orbanians are primitive in that kind of behavior. Yet if Earth had the technology which they had whereby you can ensure everyone can be a brilliant scientists who can produce more and improve the world in a few years but the cost of it have to be the way Orbanians did, do you think the government will be questioning it? I'm not saying what's done is right but what I'm saying is that when you look at the chances, we will be doing the same thing as they did if given the chance.

L E E
July 17th, 2008, 09:45 PM
Interesting moral dilemma type episode.

My opinion, I would respect the Orban's way of life as long as they don't try and convert me to it. And as long as they respect my way of life as well. The Orbans are quite nice actually. Very civilised and non-judgemental. And they still are nice to the SGC even after being SGC criticised their way of life.

This is one of the few episodes where I did not like Jack's attitude. I understand it but I don't agree with it. I am glad that this time, he did not get his way.

pritnep
August 15th, 2008, 07:36 PM
Interesting moral and ethical type episode but not one of my favourites.

I have to disagree with you captain jake I think it is completely within character for Jack. If it's one thing that really gets to him it's the mistreatment of children he obviously has the view that kids should just be allowed to be kids. He was just acting out on what he preaches.

Certainly does raise the question of SGC having a prime directive again.

Oooh yay they have a naquada generator prototype now that cools, I forgot what the original looked like rather then earth built ones.

Daniel was certainly in his element uncovering the history behind the people.

Black_Sheep
September 2nd, 2008, 05:36 PM
The first not-so-great episode of season three. Still definetly good though.

Mortonpixie
October 21st, 2008, 11:26 AM
There was at least good suspense in the beginning with regard to the "child prodigies". Not one of my favorites, but I did like the way we saw Jack's fatherly instincts step in.

RononXSpecialist
November 11th, 2008, 09:20 AM
YAY!. For Naqauda Generator Tech.!
I agree with Mortonpixie I also liked how Jack's fatherly side kicked in :D

Pic
February 4th, 2009, 07:08 PM
I'm rather disappointed that we don't encounter these people again. There was so much focus on Sam/Merrin (the girl) and Jack/Merrin interactions, but I think one of the best was Teal'c/Tomin ~ it reminded me that Teal'c is also a father. Besides, anytime Teal'c interacts with children is so heart-warming. Remember 'Bane'? The super-soaker water-gun fight with the girl was the highlight of an otherwise dismal episode.

Sam getting in trouble with Hammond for turning on the device without notifying anyone reminds me of a future episode where she tapes a note to the door of her lab. LOL! So brilliant, so focused, yet so reckless. ;)

gateship15
February 4th, 2009, 11:07 PM
i like this episode the end was good

Butlersgate
February 23rd, 2009, 01:33 PM
ahh the birth of the naquahda generators :D jack is amazing in this episode...then again he is amazing in all of the episodes ;D

EvenstarSRV
March 2nd, 2009, 09:08 PM
I recently re-watched this episode for another thread and it reminded me of how much I loved it the first time around. One of my absolute favorites from the series, and one that really highlights, to me, how Stargate is unique from most other sci-fi shows.

Some thoughts, split up for each character for some clarity, hopefully: :o

Daniel - I loved the opening with Daniel in his element digging into the roots of a civilization, and his pure excitement at piecing together Orban's history. I also liked how Daniel tried to reason with Kalan about finding a way around the Averium, but was willing to listen to Kalan's point of view as well. He may have still disagreed with the Averium, but he took the time to understand the Orbanians motivations, and that speaks a lot to his character, IMO.

Sam - Like Daniel, I just adored seeing Sam's obvious excitement about the naquahdah generator, as well as her humility when she said she needed help to understand it. I loved seeing her both struggle and succeed in figuring out the generator, I always get a chuckle out of her yelling at it to work. And Sam being jealous of Merrin's not needing to sleep was just cute. And I love her message to Merrin about how figuring out something for yourself is more satisfying than being given the answer, which is something I wholeheartedly believe. I also loved her reaction to the drawing of her that Kalan made. :)

Teal'c - He didn't get quite as much to do as the other characters, but his relationship with Tomin more than makes up for that, since that's what first tips them off to the true nature of the Urrone. I loved all his interactions with Tomin, especially how attached he became to him, which was nicely shown with how disturbed he seemed when Tomin no longer recognized him. Just adored seeing this fatherly side to Teal'c.

Jack - In the opening scenes I enjoyed seeing the different characters' interpretations of fun. For Daniel and Sam it's their day jobs essentially, while for Jack is seems to be more what he gets to do outside of work. I didn't mind Jack's insubordination at taking Merrin to the school because his intentions were good and he did return her to the SGC. As much as he vehemently disagreed with the Orbanians, he didn't impose his beliefs on to them by keeping Merrin, however much he may have wanted to. And I just adored the closing scene with Jack drawing a purple dog for Merrin. Like with Teal'c, it was great to see this fatherly side to Jack.

What stands out the most for me in the episode was even though all of the characters disagreed with the Orbanians' practice of Averium, they did not impose their beliefs on them and demand that they change. They ultimately respected their differences but were able to make some subtle changes, like with the post-Averium children now being taught in the old-fashioned way and the obvious effect of Merrin's learning to draw.

This episode showed me that SG-1 could be heroes without firing a single shot or defeating an enemy, but by simply being true to themselves while also respecting others. :)

amconway
March 2nd, 2009, 09:30 PM
This is an excellent look at this episode and absolutely agree with your analysis. I've always thought that it was a good thing Sam talked about the satisfaction of figuring something out on your own. That got passed to everyone in their culture, and is certain to have an effect on both how they school the children who have been through the Averium, and how the whole society views learning. I have a hope that eventually they will see this as a more positive learning model than the use of nanites.

It's interesting to see where Jack draws the line with insubordination. He's not going to disobey an order, but he'll bend it for all it's worth. Actually, I think there are very few things that Jack would push it this hard over. He does respect the Air Force and the chain of command. A child, his team, his ex-wife... That's probably about it. Well, the fate of the Earth/galaxy, of course!

It was great to see Daniel enjoying himself, doing something he loves. Sadly, whenever I see Daniel having a really good time, I just know something bad is about to happen. ;)

Butlersgate
March 3rd, 2009, 01:43 AM
This episode showed me that SG-1 could be heroes without firing a single shot or defeating an enemy, but by simply being true to themselves while also respecting others. :)

that is what i think makes sg-1 brilliant, there is always much more than meets the eye and you never know what's guna happen next.

EvenstarSRV
March 3rd, 2009, 02:20 PM
Oh, something I can't believe I forgot from my post, the importance of the creation of the first naquahdah generator, arguably one of the most important pieces of technology ever developed by the SGC!

What I loved most about the generator was that it wasn't just given to the SGC to use with no-strings attached. Sam had to struggle to understand it and build one herself using Earth-based science and technology, and then continue to refine it over time.

That personal struggle to acquire the technology is what I loved most about the naquahdah generator, because it didn't come easy, Sam and the SGC had to earn the right to use it.

leiasky
March 3rd, 2009, 02:46 PM
Jack gets a few episodes over the 8 years to show just how much he loves kids. It's heartbreaking to see that he's so good with them and to know that he's lost his.

I love that this episode showcased the two 'fathers' of the team and their protectiveness over the children.

amconway
March 3rd, 2009, 02:50 PM
What I loved most about the generator was that it wasn't just given to the SGC to use with no-strings attached. Sam had to struggle to understand it and build one herself using Earth-based science and technology, and then continue to refine it over the time.
Good point! We didn't get to see that very often. Well, we knew Sam was doing something in that lad, but it was usually presented as a done deal, like the weapon based on the Telchak device.

EvenstarSRV
March 3rd, 2009, 07:12 PM
Good point! We didn't get to see that very often. Well, we knew Sam was doing something in that lad, but it was usually presented as a done deal, like the weapon based on the Telchak device.

But that prototype weapon wasn't given ready to use to the SGC, they had to develop it from the Telchak device. Granted we didn't get to see a lot of the process unlike the generator in this episode, but it wasn't quite a done deal, IMO, they still had to adapt the technology themselves.

Technology closer to a done deal that the SGC has gotten would be more like the Ancient chair, or the Asgard weapons in Unending, IMO.

amconway
March 4th, 2009, 10:59 PM
Hmmm... Have you guys read the back posts in this thread? There sure are a lot of people that feel like they shouldn't have dared express disapproval of the condition the children were left in...

leiasky
March 5th, 2009, 07:26 AM
Hmmm... Have you guys read the back posts in this thread? There sure are a lot of people that feel like they shouldn't have dared express disapproval of the condition the children were left in...

Everyone's got a right to their opinion:)

We aren't the world's (or galaxy's) policemen and we are arrogant if we think that we are.

amconway
March 5th, 2009, 07:29 AM
Everyone's got a right to their opinion

We aren't the world's (or galaxy's) policemen and we are arrogant if we think that we are.

You want to smack the other hand, too? Or was that sufficient?

leiasky
March 5th, 2009, 07:37 AM
You want to smack the other hand, too? Or was that sufficient?

I'm providing my opinion. That's still allowed as far as I undestand.

I haven't read back in the thread so I don't know what other people have said.

EvenstarSRV
March 5th, 2009, 05:02 PM
Hmmm... Have you guys read the back posts in this thread? There sure are a lot of people that feel like they shouldn't have dared express disapproval of the condition the children were left in...

I read over the posts before posting my review of the episode, and while I see where some of them may be coming from when in believing that SG-1, or Jack in particular, were imposing their beliefs on the Orbanians, I essentially see the opposite.

Yes, SG-1, especially Jack, disagreed and disapproved with how the Orbanians were treating their children. They all tried to convince Kalan and Merrin to see the matter their way and stop using the Averium, with Jack using the most extreme method of persuasion in taking Merrin against orders to school.

But in the end SG-1 did not keep Merrin, did not forcibly stop the Orbanians from using Averium, and essentially left them in peace. I think that's the important part of the story, that SG-1 could have imposed their beliefs, but they chose not to and were still subtly able to make a difference on Orban.

Jumper_One
March 30th, 2009, 07:20 PM
J BlueCello writes: “1. In the Stargate SG-1 episode “Learning Curver” (written by Heather E. Ash) where Brittney Irvin played the 11-year-old reactor expert from Orban who works with Sam to help build a reactor using earth materials, Sam Carter tells “Merrin” that “Half the interesting things in my life didn’t happen till I turned 15.” Merrin asked what kinds of things, and Sam dissembles. What “interesting things” do you think Sam meant?”

AT: I think Sam in her awkward way was referring to boys. As soon as she said it she got embarrassed … and she wonders why she is still single! Sheesh.
http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2009/03/30/march-30-2009-amanda-tapping-answers-your-questions/

The Stig
April 24th, 2009, 02:14 PM
This was one of those episodes that was good but not remembered. I have always complained about school and they should make a device in which you get the knowledge you need but after watching this episode, i would rather go to school.

UniverseSizePlotHole
October 16th, 2009, 04:14 AM
I really enjoyed this as a rewatch today.

Jack saying "I look fat" as he goes by the schoolgirl painting him is really funny. Well 12 years go by and its the hard truth as you age LOL desk jockey in the Pentagon now.

Megglow
January 12th, 2010, 07:18 PM
In all of the post i have heard nothing about the Urrones necklaces. Those are really cool. I cant even seem to find a picture of one! are the significant?? or just pretty i like them does anyone know where to get one???

Ashizuri
February 17th, 2010, 08:09 AM
Loved this epsode.

It was a bit funny to hear the young boy being called Tomin though. Also, the fat painting of Jack made me smile. What a fabulous character piece for Jack.

mrscopterdoc
March 3rd, 2010, 12:39 PM
This is one of the episodes that you forget how good it is because its a quiet episode, not full of action. And I am a sucker for happy endings. :)

KayLyne
March 3rd, 2010, 04:44 PM
I love the part in Carter's lab where she & Merrin are trying to get Sam's newly constructed reactor to work. It's fun to see Sam learning something new, and even teaching herself, because it's quite unusual to see her not know something technical and get frustrated.

icsteffi
May 14th, 2010, 03:17 AM
1. This is why I love SG-1. Because of everything I learn from Daniel! :) I'm an educated person, and I've never heard of Teotihuacán. !!! Listening gave me the motivation to go research this civilization.

2. Ummm... I don't know if I totally missed something. But can someone explain to me why they couldn't just take, lets say 1/2 of the nanites out of the kids heads? Why do they have to drain it all?

Girlbot
June 11th, 2010, 10:10 AM
This was a truly sad episode, they couldn't save her in he end. :(

maneth
August 16th, 2010, 10:46 AM
Indeed, but there's hope for them now. They aren't just left to rot, but get a chance to learn things in the old-fashioned way.

Darkland
September 9th, 2010, 04:33 AM
This episode was quite interesting and I really like how Jack in particular was invested in trying to get the young girl interested in other things apart from what she had been "programmed" to do.

She was so smart, but yet she lost alot of her childhood though. Something that can't ever be replaced. I really loved how at the end the kids are all playing, but the young girl didn't remember Jack when he went over to her. Sweet and yet sad at the same time.

However my brain did ask the question - was as it some kind of child abuse? I mean taking away their basically fundamental right of "being kids" is like slavery and then filling the head with nonsense that it was an hour to be serving with this great knowledge.

themyst
April 17th, 2011, 08:59 PM
It wasn't until I read a page or two back in these reviews that I realized there wasn't any action in this episode. Strange, I like action but also really liked this episode. I was somewhat miffed when in the middle of it all they figured out what was going on with the kids' memories disappearing and they were so aghast at this culture's way of doing things that they even thought about not letting Merrin go back. Yes, it was a bittersweet ending but I thought it was the best end result.

LeftHandedGuitarist
October 3rd, 2011, 09:37 AM
I like this one! Despite the fact that involves kids (children and sci-fi are not a good mix for me). Mostly because the girl who played Merrin did a good job, and her part as written was quite interesting. It's not the most exciting or thrilling of episodes, but it has a charm to it and we get to see some nice character development from our main cast. I think this is one of the earliest episodes in which Daniel gets to really make one of his famous ethical arguments (which he always does very well).

One character I did not enjoy watching in this was Kalan. Man, that guy really rubs me up the wrong way. Most of what he said came across as unintentionally arrogant. This makes it a delight to see his complete reversal at the end of the episode, and the big smile on his face as he gives his drawing to Jack ("It's ME!").

- Nice, a red Stargate. It looks good.

- Jack REALLY breaks the rules in this one, and appears to get away with it.

- Who teaches all this advanced knowledge to the Urrone in the first place? What was Merrin doing during those 10 years she spent learning about naquadah reactors, if it wasn't some form of school/teaching?

RATING: 7 out of 10

Krisz
October 6th, 2011, 02:41 PM
This was one of the episodes I wasn't looking forward to watching again. It is slow, but somehow still manages to keep you watching. Again the clash of cultures, how things are viewed from an Earth perspective. Mainly how the Urrone used their children as computer hard drives, fill them up with info and download to master computer to pass on knowledge. Creeped me out the first time I saw this to see the kids turn into vegetables after the info download, that was mainly why I never wanted to watch this episode again really.

I didn't realise until this re watch how many episodes dealt with kids as tools for nefarious alien purposes in early Stargate!

Jae'a
October 7th, 2011, 06:00 AM
My LiveJournal post (http://jo-r-lee.livejournal.com/13766.html)

mathpiglet
October 7th, 2011, 02:49 PM
This was a truly sad episode, they couldn't save her in he end. :(

In a sense they did save her. Without their involvement, she would have been left to exist in a room with no stimulation. Now she has a chance to learn and grow. I'd say with good teaching, she has the potential for a good life.

NowIWillDestroyAbydos
October 7th, 2011, 03:51 PM
So this was a episode where Jack teaches a smart kid about being an actual Kid.

But this one was an average episode none the less.

Monday, Kawalsky's back, an alternate version of him, I mean.

Matt G
October 9th, 2011, 04:41 AM
5pm...another ep of SG1...

1. 11 year old reactor expert...right...

2. I'm with Jack on this one...that is a seriously messed up way of learning...it's like the Orbanians don't value individuality at all...

3. Daniel did realise that the Orbanians had become reliant on this method though and to be fair...they 'did' need to let Merrin go back.

4. Was very cool to see that Merrin was one step ahead of Jack here.

Pretty cool ep.

dtheories
October 9th, 2011, 08:49 PM
Finally! Daniel and his tools are united! Woot! And Stargirl...they grow up so fast.

Two things were especially important about this ep for me. First, we have the opportunity to see how we react when our beliefs about cultural norms are challenged; and second, warriors have big hearts. It's Teal'c who first suspects all is not well with the children and takes a fierce stand against what he believes to be an injustice. And Jack only sees what he wants to about children; that nothing should interfere with them having fun. He sees Charlie, and in the end, he shows the planet a different way of dealing with "problem" within their 'education' system.

A nice departure.

jelgate
October 9th, 2011, 08:59 PM
This episode has always creepied me out and not in a good way. While not out of character for him, it disgusts me how Jack feels he has the moral authority to decide his culture's way is superior to the Orbians. No matter how much I disagree with the philosphy of how the Orbanians obtain technology its just wrong for Jack and SG1 to force our beliefs on this one. Although this episode has awesome merit for the first time we see a naqaduh reactor.

I liked how the linked the Aztec culture with the Obraians but it feels half-fetched. Don't really feel this angle had any ending it was just dangled in favor of expanding the other story

Starscape91
October 10th, 2011, 11:19 AM
I like and hate this episode. I understand how they want to help the children, but I don't like how the go about it.

SaraBahama
October 10th, 2011, 05:42 PM
I like this episode: good character development.

The first thing that struck me was Teal'c's reaction when he suspects something is wrong because they won't bring back Tomin. Chris Judge played Teal'c's anger consistent with his character's tight self-control, but it's not wooden, you can feel it simmering beneath the surface.

I love the banter when Sam an Merrin think that working on the reactor is 'fun,' and Jack's look when Merrin implies that he is not as smart as Sam -and he agrees.

Jack waking Carter up after she fell asleep in her lab made me laugh all over again. His line that the Orbanians "don't deserve" their children reminded me that this situation must be killing him, with his own history of losing Charlie.

The positive change created by Merrin was a nice ending -it kept it from being too dark. It left you feeling that she and the other children would now be taught and develop into mature people.

garhkal
October 16th, 2011, 02:28 PM
This episode has always creepied me out and not in a good way. While not out of character for him, it disgusts me how Jack feels he has the moral authority to decide his culture's way is superior to the Orbians. No matter how much I disagree with the philosphy of how the Orbanians obtain technology its just wrong for Jack and SG1 to force our beliefs on this one..

It does show a standard in many Sci Fi shows.. where earth considered IT's way (or humans in general) way as always being superior/better than any others, and be damned any evidence to the contrary.

Lieutenant Sparrow
October 17th, 2011, 12:52 AM
Not one of my favourite eps.

Was cool to have a mention of Nanite's again.

Nut_ty
October 31st, 2011, 10:07 PM
I love the character development in this episode. Sam’s scientific, problem solver self comes out in her working with Merrin to learn about the generator. Both Teal’c and Daniel demonstrate their teaching ability. Jack, in this episode, shows more of his care and compassion for children

Dave2
November 17th, 2011, 04:10 PM
An outstanding episode........if all television was of this quality maybe our adults would be a tenth as intelligent as the children on Orban........But do the children on that planet have parents??
I do notice that in a number of episodes SG1 only encounters a single alien in an environment where that alien is either alone or virtually alone, i.e. Maternal Instinct and Window of Opportunity. Is that simply because the story can be explained with its lesson in that way, or is a question of budgeting for actors?

muziqaz
December 6th, 2011, 07:14 AM
Oh man, this one was a treat. Great chemistry between actors and great episode from that. Really enjoyed Jack's attachment to alien kid. beauty of TV episodes :)

Dimes
December 23rd, 2011, 02:57 PM
Interesting, but boring episode.

hedwig
December 23rd, 2011, 05:00 PM
An outstanding episode........if all television was of this quality maybe our adults would be a tenth as intelligent as the children on Orban........But do the children on that planet have parents??
I do notice that in a number of episodes SG1 only encounters a single alien in an environment where that alien is either alone or virtually alone, i.e. Maternal Instinct and Window of Opportunity. Is that simply because the story can be explained with its lesson in that way, or is a question of budgeting for actors?

Money is always an issue.

Dimes
December 24th, 2011, 01:56 AM
It was an alright episode.
Not bad, but not good either.

Sam-n-Jack-in-<3
July 26th, 2012, 12:16 PM
Another personal favorite! Lots of character development, especially for Jack. But to break things down...

-Jack definitely has a soft spot for kids. We've had the Stargate movie (his interactions with Skaara), 'Show and Tell', and now 'Learning Curve' to prove this to us. The situation stinks and it makes him angry knowing that he's not allowed to change anything...so he breaks the rules. It's amazing he got away from this without a court-martial...
-Sam is having trouble understanding something technical for the first time in her life, and it's kind of amusing to see her slightly jealous of how quickly Merrin learns...and the fact that Merrin needs less sleep. Her interactions with the kid are neat to see in other ways, too, like explaining what drawing is.
-Daniel and Jack are once again on opposite sides of the fence.Once again, Daniel tends to side with the natives and Jack goes with his gut.
-Teal'c seems to have a great repore (sp?) with Tomin almost immediately, and, as others have pointed out, KNOWS something is wrong when Tomin is 'gone', and later doesn't recognize him. It's nice to see his rare, trademark smile in this episode.

It's initially kind of annoying to have children speaking like adults (again), but hey...what can you do?

The eventual payoff from Jack's disregard of the rules is bittersweet. While there is something of a revolutionary change in the way things are done on Orbaan (sp?), Merrin has reverted to the state of a toddler. The ending where Jack walks over and meets her all over again is enough to make an old softy like me misty-eyed.

Zaany
August 15th, 2012, 04:38 AM
Great episode character development wise, but plot wise they pretty much killed the entire Orlan civilization .. does anyone else find it to be the worse thing the SGC did during the entire SG1 series ?
And what exactly was the reason the Goa'uld left Orlan ?
Anyway i would rate it 8/10, solid episode for sure.

fems
August 15th, 2012, 11:55 AM
Great episode character development wise, but plot wise they pretty much killed the entire Orlan civilization .. does anyone else find it to be the worse thing the SGC did during the entire SG1 series ?
And what exactly was the reason the Goa'uld left Orlan ?
Anyway i would rate it 8/10, solid episode for sure.

It's been a while since I've last seen this episode, but didn't the Orban simply continue with their urrone? Then after the averium the children would be taught the normal way, due to Merrin's experience at the school.

Major Clanger
January 6th, 2013, 05:20 AM
not a bad ep - what I really like about Stargate over a lot of other sci-fi shows is that they often confront situations that are not clear cut, there is no black and white there are only shades of grey*. What usually occurs in these eps (eg. S4 The Other Side & Scorched Earth in particular) Jack & Daniel see things from a different perspective. It leads to thoughtful television and means that Stargate isn't just run of the mill stuff.

so from that point of view - great ep.

*see what I did there?

fems
January 6th, 2013, 05:46 AM
not a bad ep - what I really like about Stargate over a lot of other sci-fi shows is that they often confront situations that are not clear cut, there is no black and white there are only shades of grey*. What usually occurs in these eps (eg. S4 The Other Side & Scorched Earth in particular) Jack & Daniel see things from a different perspective. It leads to thoughtful television and means that Stargate isn't just run of the mill stuff.

so from that point of view - great ep.

*see what I did there?

I saw what you did there! You should have added an asterisk to point of view too :P

Major Clanger
January 6th, 2013, 08:28 AM
arghhh... :)

Falcon Horus
June 3rd, 2013, 01:36 PM
Interesting to see a people, advanced enough and yet technologically dependent on their nanites to teach them what they know. It's easy to control too what the folks know or don't know about. With these nanites one could potentially control the flow of knowledge at will.

See, people are boring when they don't have even a little amount of fun in their life.

And whoever made those drawings of the reactor -- loved the detail. The painting was nice too (both stick figure and reactor).

Radio Picon
November 13th, 2013, 04:13 PM
Just saw this one for the first time tonight. When it started I thought I saw another scifi aliens-age-backwards sort of thing coming on. I like that they didn't go there and did something a little different. I also liked that Merrin didn't change her mind in the end and went through with the procedure. Overall, I was not too impressed with the episode, but every season of every show has some lulls from the action and breaks from the story lines.

Maybe I'm just not into character development pieces unless they're heavily mixed with science fiction! :)

I Am Not James Spader
May 14th, 2015, 03:10 AM
I feel the opposite - a great episode and probably my favourite so far. :)

Anja
September 11th, 2015, 04:22 AM
One of the Nox once said: Your ways are not the only ways.

This ep doesn't support that idea. Don't get me wrong - I don't like children being used that way!!!

jelgate
September 11th, 2015, 07:37 AM
I always had a problem with this episode for that reason. I didn't like how ethnocentric Jack and Sam were

garhkal
September 11th, 2015, 11:52 AM
Thsi was one of the first eps i hated Sam/Jack's meddling just cause we "felt our ways are better'..

maneth
January 2nd, 2016, 08:52 AM
Cool episode. Although I'm not sure I completely agree with the way humans meddled with the Orban people's ways, at least they learned that the former Urrone kids weren't useless and could be taught the old-fashioned way.

garhkal
January 2nd, 2016, 08:35 PM
Meddling in other cultures was (and as of SGA) still standard practice. We see something that WE don't like, even if it works well for that culture, we go in and force a change to OUR ways..

Anja
January 3rd, 2016, 01:45 AM
That's why the Nox's words to O'Neill were and still are (to me!) so important:
Your ways are not the only ways.

garhkal
January 3rd, 2016, 12:11 PM
And it seems we Still have not learned that lesson, as of SGA..

Seaboe Muffinchucker
January 4th, 2016, 10:36 AM
Given Earth's history, it's obvious this is a lesson a lot of humans are not capable of learning.

Seaboe

Queen Guinevere
January 4th, 2016, 01:06 PM
I agree we stupid Tauri are extremely arrogant, but in this particular episode the whole premise with transforming kids into vegetables was so horrible, I'm sure I would react in the same way. Besides, they said they only used this technology in about 50 years? Or am I wrong? How could they forget all normal way of learning then? Very unrealistic scenario, even for scifi, but makes a great topic for discussions





Given Earth's history, it's obvious this is a lesson a lot of humans are not capable of learning.

Seaboe
I believe ALL of the normally gifted individuals and even people with some mental deficiencies are perfectly capable of learning. The state and politicians though tend to claim otherwise, 'cause it makes their life easier - they can save lot of money on education and pay for weapons instead. Sorry for offtopic.

Anja
January 5th, 2016, 01:02 AM
The people in Learning Curve did not torture their kids willingly, the problem (the Tauri had with their way of learning) was solved elegantly.
I think it was right to try something here, in other cases (like with the Nox) some thorough thinking before would have been nice.

KennClique
May 15th, 2016, 05:37 PM
This episode hits you right in the feels. :(

garhkal
September 12th, 2017, 11:56 AM
After doing a re-watch, i still love the interactions between the Orbans and Teal'c/Sam more so than with Daniel.. It still rubs me wrong on the interference they tried to foist on them, but i do understand it a little more..
I also am peeved they never went back.

Anja
September 15th, 2017, 12:31 AM
I would also have liked them to go back!
But it never was solved if O'Neill's girlfriend in A Hundred Days was pregnant as well!

garhkal
September 15th, 2017, 11:49 AM
These are all things that seemed to just 'fall into that plot black hole'..

jelgate
September 15th, 2017, 05:50 PM
I think we use the term plot hole too much

Seaboe Muffinchucker
September 18th, 2017, 06:57 AM
I agree with Jelgate; failure to return to the site of a completed story is not a plot hole. And as much as I'd've liked to explore some of the societies and locations they introduced, I think it's wrong to expect a TV series to spend a lot of time on that.

Seaboe

Falcon Horus
September 19th, 2017, 12:45 AM
A throw-away comment would have done just fine. :)

garhkal
September 19th, 2017, 11:40 AM
It's just like we never saw Narim again after the episode, New ground. Or heard back from Grand pa after the crystal skull episode.. Things forgotten about.

Falcon Horus
September 20th, 2017, 12:47 AM
Narim went into the witness protection program and returned in Atlantis as Doctor... can't remember his name. Only to die by the hands of a Wraith. :p

Anja
September 20th, 2017, 01:09 AM
Perhaps not all the characters had to live forever!

Britta
September 20th, 2017, 02:49 AM
Narim went into the witness protection program and returned in Atlantis as Doctor... can't remember his name. Only to die by the hands of a Wraith. :p

That was Nyan from New Ground who came back in The Defiant One. Narim was a Tollan.

Falcon Horus
September 20th, 2017, 04:56 AM
That was Nyan from New Ground who came back in The Defiant One. Narim was a Tollan.

Oh doh... :replicatoranime01:

Darn it... :( ...got them all mixed up.

jelgate
September 20th, 2017, 11:25 AM
Note they are different characters played by the same actor

garhkal
September 20th, 2017, 11:40 AM
Oh doh... :replicatoranime01:

Darn it... :( ...got them all mixed up.

Same here. BUT Nyan was NOT THE doctor that got eaten by the wraith and left for dead in "The Defiant one, just they were played by the same actor... AS many roles in SG seem to be for minor characters..

Britta
September 21st, 2017, 01:54 AM
Note they are different characters played by the same actor

:indeed:, that is what I meant.

jelgate
September 21st, 2017, 02:23 AM
You should have been more clear. Never send a water filter to do a human's job

Falcon Horus
September 21st, 2017, 03:46 AM
Wait wait wait.... but Narim, now that I remember the actor, was the same one playing Weir's boyfriend, right?

Britta
September 21st, 2017, 04:53 PM
Wait wait wait.... but Narim, now that I remember the actor, was the same one playing Weir's boyfriend, right?

:indeed:

garhkal
September 21st, 2017, 04:54 PM
Wait wait wait.... but Narim, now that I remember the actor, was the same one playing Weir's boyfriend, right?

The same actor, yes..
Heck iirc in the general area, there was a thread that had a list of all the actors who have had MULTIPLE roles in SG1/SGA/SGU playing different characters..

Falcon Horus
September 22nd, 2017, 02:09 AM
In the Joss Whedon TV-series -- it was a competition to appear in preferably all his shows as different characters. :p

Falcon Horus
January 22nd, 2018, 01:30 PM
Might have liked this -- might not have liked this very much. I don't really know.

Anywho... Here we have a civilization, descendants from whomever lived at Teotihuacan at one point or another, and they learn by assimilation. Borg in disguise. Young children are deliberately infected with nanites and when they reach the age of 12 are reduced to idiots in order for the rest of the population to absorb their knowledge. Yeah okay... no thanks.

However, the concept is interesting because it showcases how different the people on all these planets have evolved, and that they have different ways of living and doing things, and simply don't follow the same rules, or ethics or moral codes as the people from Earth do. And we may not agree with them, as is showcased by Colonel O'Neill trying to keep Merrin from going through the Ovarium because he's of the opinion these children are mistreated and used for the greater good, but Galen or whatever his name is, does make a good point about the people from Earth not agreeing with their methods so they should change them.

In the end though, thanks to Jack taking Merrin out, they do change something when they learn how to teach the Euron children the slow method of learning. Perhaps, this way we did alter their way, even by a little.

It's certainly an interesting episode, with a fairly interesting point of view from both the Orbanians and the SGC.

Also, Carter and Merrin experimenting in the lab with the Naquadah reactor -- :lol:

How would you rate SG-1's "Learning Curve?"

Excellent
Good
Fair
Poor
Terrible

jelgate
January 25th, 2018, 05:52 AM
I hate this episode with a fiery passion. It really ticks me off how SG1 and Jack think their way is the better way and they get the Orbians to assimilate to Earth culture. Also I get annoyed how they drop the Goa'uld leaving mid story. It's a rare terrible for me

Falcon Horus
January 28th, 2018, 02:53 PM
Jigsaw-time: Learning Curve (https://www.jigidi.com/solve.php?id=6REB2PG4)

The 3-episode quiz: Legacy, Learning Curve & Point Of View (https://goo.gl/forms/YZHSv85hcq4Rersh2)

jelgate
January 28th, 2018, 06:49 PM
I did poorly. 11 minutes and 18 seconds

Falcon Horus
January 29th, 2018, 01:50 AM
I did poorly. 11 minutes and 18 seconds

Yikes, that basically means we're going to have an even harder time. :p

jelgate
January 29th, 2018, 04:32 AM
It's a little larger than your usual puzzle and their are a lot of shades of black and gray

Falcon Horus
February 4th, 2018, 04:31 AM
I did poorly. 11 minutes and 18 seconds

I did far worse by comparison: 19:55

Platschu
August 27th, 2018, 09:50 AM
3x05 Learning curve
Kalan said the Uronne childrens can’t recive nanites after their Averium, but Tommin and the others were still playing in the school what Merrin learned on Earth.
My comment: They were teaching each other on the old fashioned way.

Seaboe Muffinchucker
August 27th, 2018, 11:23 AM
The adults received Merrin's nanites (and her memories of school) and began to teach the Uronne children. That's not an error.

Seaboe

BethHG
August 27th, 2018, 06:21 PM
18:57 for the puzzle. It seems that I skipped a few.

Falcon Horus
August 28th, 2018, 05:04 AM
18:57 for the puzzle. It seems that I skipped a few.

Time to catch up... :)

Who Knows
September 18th, 2018, 06:29 AM
18.26

hedwig
September 21st, 2018, 03:41 PM
17:07

Falcon Horus
September 22nd, 2018, 08:06 AM
Oh, sorry about the hard ones.